MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Blasts Boxing For Failing To Follow UFC’s Model | Plus, Perry's BKFC Star, Aldo’s Return

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with a brand new episode as UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin discuss the latest in combat sports including how the UFC has embraced marketing and promoting athletes in way that boxing never has. Brown argues that boxing promoters are still stuck in the 1990s when it comes to their methodology trying to build interest in the sport while the UFC continues to run circles around them. We’ll also talk about Mike Perry’s latest win in BKFC and how he became the perfect person to serve as the face of bare-knuckle fighting. Plus we’ll discuss Jose Aldo coming back from retirement to fight at UFC 301 and if he’s returning for the right reasons? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just... Speaking into the void. But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching. the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title?

See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, you know what I just realized?

I got this intro music I downloaded because it's like that, you know, the royalty free, you know, so you don't get flagged for like, you know, for copyright issues. So it's just like, you know, that free music you can get. Laura Sanko, when she did the show a few weeks ago, she asked about like, she liked the metal music. She's like, that must be like Matt Brown's music. And I was like, actually, it's just some random metal sound. I was like, Matt does have a song by Jamie Jaston. But I was like, I'm always afraid to play it because I'm afraid we're going to get flag for copyright. right. She gets Jamie Jaston to give us permission when you start using your song as the intro.

Dude, he don't mind at all. Well, tell him. Tell him, send me a message. Like, that way if we get flagged, we can send it to him. Be like, dude, they gave us permission. Like, we can use this. So, yeah, I don't know why I'm asking you do. I talk to Jamie every now and again. I'll have to message him. I just thought about that. I was like, why aren't we using your song? Yeah, just fucking do it, bro. He don't give a shit.

Yeah, you got a, you got your own. When you get your own specialized intro song from the singer of fucking hate breed, you better use it. And yeah, yeah, you use it as much as you want, bro. It's a fucking badass song, too. It is. It is. Although I will say, I will say.

Remember, we used to use it the Great Even May debate back in the day. We did. We did use it for that. Yeah, never. I always got paranoid because when I do a horror movie podcast and we used to use a track that was like an instrumental track, but it was from like a known artist. And we kept getting flagged. And so we had to like,

get permission and got like a specialized track to use. There's a pain in the ass. So I just stopped doing it. I'm like, I just don't want to deal with the bullshit. Like I don't want to deal with the like constantly getting flagged on YouTube and everywhere else. I just don't want to do it. So, uh, yeah.

You know, it's kind of weird how they do that too because for instance, I have a TikTok, which actually my kids started it and they just used my name and my ID and shit. Because that'd be like 13 and they just use my ID and shit. So I just stole they they somehow they built like you know up to 10,000 11,000 followers or something. So I just took it back and I started putting all my guitar covers on there. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where I so just for everybody's information listening, if they ever want to watch my guitar stuff, I upload more to TikTok than I do to Instagram or Twitter or anything like that.

But anyway, so that they flag like certain videos every now and then. You know, because, like, I play along with the song. Yeah. So you can hear the song on the video. And it's like just every now and then some song will get flagged, like, just randomly. Which is weird, too, because you can have music on TikTok. Like, they have, like, on Instagram, too, like, where you can use a song from an artist, you know what I mean? So it's, like, odd that they would flag you for playing the song when you can already play the songs.

Well, ironically, the one that comes to mind first, they got flagged was a Metallica song. Oh, really? Lars Lourke is just sitting around his house fucking with people being like These motherfuckers you can't use my Metallica song Yeah he's just scrolling through TikTok Like who the fuck's using my music Did you remember

We grew up in the Napster era No one today even remembers what Napster is Like seriously Does I don't know your kids don't know what Napster is But like no one knows No one remembers Napster or Limewire Like dude those were like That was the shit when we were growing up

Like that's how you got your music 100% and uh pizaw yeah oh yeah that's right that's right there's still a Napster app actually is there yeah I actually download it not too long ago I think I deleted it but it's basically like a Spotify or YouTube or Apple music whatever yeah it's funny because I used to work at I worked a record store in college I managed a record store and I remember talking to record reps they told us how much it costs to print a CD And that's when I knew the whole music again.

Now, don't get me wrong. I know musicians get screwed. I'm not trying to like, you know, not side with the man here over the musicians. Like, musicians should get the royalties, especially with Spotify and Apple music and everything else out there today. But he was telling me how little it costs to print a CD back in the day. And I was like, and you guys are charged like $1599 for this shit? Like, good Christ. Like, that's why I stole music.

I was a college student. I couldn't afford to pay $1599 for a new record. I could pay free though. You gave it to me for free. I'll do that. it's funny it'd be interesting like whenever i do my own podcast i'm gonna have some musicians on i'm gonna talk to him about that because i've actually heard kind of differing opinions i think it was philabonte from all it remains where he was talking about he's like yeah you know we don't get a lot

for the streams obviously so in that sense yeah you kind of get screwed but he's like it's really it's not like you can still make as much money as you did back then he's like there's another side to that coin because like now your music gets exposed to more people too though so you sell more merch and you get more people on tour and it also leveled

the playing field to a sense in a sense at least somewhat where now someone can get famous on YouTube you know like someone that I don't know if you ever heard Keith Morrow. No okay so he was like

he's a great example of that he did instrumental death metal for a long time. He's got a couple of albums with singing vocals on it also, but he did instrumental and just ridiculously good music, like insanely good guitar player, but he was like a hermit. He didn't want to be in a band. He didn't want a tour, none of that stuff.

He was just a hermit and just live by himself and just play guitar. And then he made music for a long time before he ever posted to YouTube. and then as soon as he started posting a little bit to YouTube, he blew the fuck up, you know, in the deep in the metal world, you know, like the guitar players and stuff. And now he makes a living off of YouTube. And he's like easily one of the best metal musicians in the world. So I do think there's kind of two sides to that.

Like, yeah, you know, the people kind of, I think in the mid-range, like they get screwed the most, you know. Yeah, but I mean, listen, because when I used to work at a music store, the way I discovered new bands was when we would just get like, we would have record raps coming to our store like once a week from Warner Brothers or Sony. We all had record reps from every major label and they would come in and they would pitch us stuff. Now they knew like me, I was like the metal head. We had another guy there who was kind of like an indie rocker. We had a girl there who's into hip hop like whatever. And so they kind of all pitch us on stuff to play in the store of like, here, check this out.

And if we liked it, we'd play it in the store. And inevitably, on a much smaller scale, people would be like, oh, what is that? Like, who is that? Let me check that out. And so, and they'd advise to concerts. Like, dude, I used to go, like, when I worked at a record store, I was at a concert at least, like, three nights a week. Like, I went to a lot of shows. I didn't even care to go to.

But they're like, do you want to come in and meet the band? Like, hang out? I'm like, sure. So, like, that's how I used to discover music in college. Then when I quit the record store, like, for the longest time, like, I just, like, it would just have to be, like, the most random shit, like, how I'd find music. but now it's Spotify. Like I'm on Spotify all the time. Like they have like a new release calendar every week.

And I'm like, ooh, what's that? Who's this? And I discover all kinds of new bands. I mean, that's, I actually had heard of Bad Omen's on our local radio station here in Columbus. They played it. And I was like, oh, that's cool. And then I got into them. But then I really, they blew up on Spotify.

And I became like a massive Bad Omen's fan. Now I'm like obsessed with Bad Omen. But yeah, like that's how I discovered music now. Spotify. Like I don't, where else you're supposed to discover music at now? Yeah, and that's another great point, too. A lot of these bands would never even been discovered. Of course, like you heard about omens through the radio,

so they got a little bit of radio play, and you kind of discovered them that way. Maybe you would have went and bought their record and went to their concert, whatever. But I don't know. I couldn't even name how many bands I've discovered through Apple or, you know, I don't really use Spotify, use Apple, but same thing.

I discover them randomly and then, you know, the cream rises to the top, you know. There's a ton of them I discover on that it suck. Then when I find one that I love, I'll listen to it for a month. A great example is a band called Sowing. You ever heard of them? Oh, I love so. Dude, I had their vinyl.

I bought their vinyl when they came out to their new record. Nice. Yeah, I bought like five of their vines because I was obsessed with them for a while because they're such amazing musicians. But if it was in a record store, I probably would have never bought the record. They're not getting any radio airplay. I would have never heard from them, never given them a dime.

So even if they only got, you know, half of a penny or whatever from my streaming, that's more than they would have got otherwise, right? Yeah, no, you're right. Actually, yeah, so it's what you say. It's a band I discovered from Spotify. It was on one of those random, like, release calendar things. And I listened to it. I was like, this is fucking badass.

And then I went to my local. record store shout out to use kids records here in Columbus Ohio best record store in the universe I went there and their new release bad bin they had so and I was like oh bought like immediately picked it up and bought it like I didn't know the album it dropped and I just immediately picked it up to buy it and I was like sweet and that's all because it's Spotify like

I discovered them on spot I had never heard of them before that's exactly right so that's what I mean the kind of the cream rises to the top and like I said I bought like five of the records because when I first I was I can concentrate and learn a bunch of the songs

These guys are fucking amazing It's really not even my style of music But the guitar is just Amazing and they're just ridiculously good musicians Yeah, it's funny to relate this back to fighting Obviously we know for years and years and years The UFC fought against piracy And people, you know, still in pay-per-views

And I would never do that I would never still in pay-per-view That's just below me I would never possibly steal a stream of a pay-per-view. But, like, they've kind of – I won't say they've embraced it more recently because they haven't. I mean, you know, of course, they're there to make money. But they've kind of embraced it. Like, I thought a great example of that was the Max Holloway, Justin Gachy, fight at 300, that crazy finish, that final 15 seconds.

And Dana White and every UFC account, like, they all posted it online, like, immediately after it happened. They didn't try to hide it. They didn't try to, you know, say, well, it's a pay-per-view, so we can't put the finish out there. you didn't pay $90 to watch this. Like, they just knew. Like, they're like, if we don't put this online, everybody and their brother's going to put this online. So we're just going to embrace it.

And now it's like the most viewed video in UFC history because they just said, fuck it. We're not going to like let every other streamer on earth take it from us. And they're going to put it up even if we try to stop them. Well, let's just embrace it. And then we'll put it up. And then guess what? 50 other million people put it up.

And now it's like the most watch clip in UFC history in like two weeks time. You know, it's funny you mentioned that somebody, I forget who I was doing a podcast with a couple weeks ago. And one of their questions was, what do you think boxing could take from the UFC? Oh, it was actually, it was a questionnaire with Dan Morley. A great, great follow on Instagram. Does tons of like the history of boxing,

done, does tons of, you know, little, like two-minute clips about, like he did Roberto Duran is one I watched today, right? he kind of walked through his career and everything he does. Just a fantastic follow, if you're a boxing fan or a fight fan in general about the history of boxing. Then he asked me, what do you think boxing could learn from the UFC? And that was the first thing that popped into my mind was their social media. You know, like they're using this Nina drama girl, right? I'm not a fan at all.

Like I don't enjoy watching her stuff, but I thousand percent get why they do it. Right, like it gets clips and she's good at what she does, you know, no hate or anything. But it's just not my thing. But the UFC is totally embracing, you know, getting more clicks, get more views, getting more social media. And boxing doesn't do that shit at all. They're still stuck in the, you know, the 1990s. Yeah, it's funny you say that. I was watching WrestleMania a few weeks ago and Logan Paul was on.

And he had some guy with him. dressed in the prime bottle, you know, he sells prime, his energy drink. And the guy revealed himself, and he was some gaming streamer like, I care, I see something. I know there's a band called I see Stars that I like. It wasn't I see stars. There was some name like I see shit. I don't know what it was called. Some name like that.

I'd never heard of them. And they're making a huge biddle about on WWE. And then one of the guys I work with has a kid who's like 12 years old. And he said, as soon as that dude popped on screen, his 12 year old kid lost his freaking mind because he knew the streamer from YouTube. Like, we got to realize you've got to embrace that. Like, we all talk about, like, the influencer stuff and, you know, all that, you know, all that kind of. Like, I, last week I interviewed, like, Paige Van Zant is fighting an influencer on that misfits boxing card coming up in May.

And I interviewed her and her opponent. Her opponent's, like, an adult film star who does Onlyfans, but she's, like, insanely popular. Now, I'm not saying this because I'm, you know, I'm a dude, of course, you know, I like, I'm a dude. I'm not going to say I'm not oblivious to everything out there, but I had never heard of her until she did Miss Fitzvitz boxing. And then I was like, oh, okay, who is this girl? Who is she looked her up and found out, you know, what she was famous for. But, like, you just have to learn to bring up to love it. Like, I'm not sitting and say I love watching influencer boxing or influencers

is the best thing ever. But, dude, it works, man, it does. Because, like, I said, when that dude popped on screen, I was like, who do? I pulled the Connor McGregor. I was like, who the fuck is that guy? And my coworker was like, dude, my kid just lost his mind. He's running around the house, like, freaking out that his favorite streamer is on WrestleMania.

Like, that's the world we live in now. Yeah, you know, we can say that like, like, oh, boxing is doing it because they're doing influencer boxing, but you know as well as I do. That's not boxing. Like, influencer boxing is its own genre, right? It's separate from the real boss. It's not bringing fans to boxing. No. You know what I mean?

Like, like no one discovered, I don't know, like, Glamour Rigando, because of, oh, fuck. fucking Jake Paul. You know what I mean? It doesn't go that deep. And if boxing... But the UFC is doing a... A great deal of embracing that, I think, right? And, you know, you love that or not, whether you're more traditionalists, like, like,

naturally more traditionalists. And, you know, I don't know if I'd say if it's a character flaw of mine or if I'm just an old motherfucker or whatever. But, you know, I always, I'm always slow to start embrace. these kinds of like new things you know what I mean and I think I'm you know in the same

spectrum as these boxing guys right like they're just slow to embrace this shit yeah I think if boxing wanted to embrace if boxing wanted to embrace influencer boxing they got like if they want to bring in that crowd they got to put one of those fights on a car now I know the old heads like Bob Aram are never going to do that but like

that's how you would do it you would put you know you would put you know Crawford and Errol Spence, which is a fight that everyone is going to watch. Or you put on a fight, like, again, going into it, like Devin Haney and Ryan Garcia was a pretty popular fight, but it wasn't the biggest fight in the world because Devin Haney's never really been a draw. And Ryan Garcia is a draw, but I think a lot of people had even kind of tuned out because of all his weird behavior thinking he wasn't taking a series or whatever.

Like, imagine putting some influencer fight on there as like the co-main event or the third fight down. Then you might actually get some people who are younger to say, oh, let me stick around and watch the rest of the card. That's what you got to do. If you want to embrace the influencer boxing, that's how you do it. You can't, you know, because you're right.

Like, they don't embrace it. They hate it. And I don't love it either. Like, it's like the least skilled boxing ever. But, you know, I mean, people care. Like, whether we like it or not, people care. And I think that's one way to do it. But also, you know, again, Nina Drama is another great example.

You know, like having a silly reporter like that that's not even a real reporter. you know, because he does silly stuff. Like, there's really nothing wrong with that, even though I don't personally admit, but there's really nothing wrong with it. Or, you know, there's a million of you do, too, you know, is like, you know, I mean, Ron Garcia, he was an influencer before he was famous as a boxer, and a huge, huge social media following. So he's a great example of someone already embracing that. But also, you know, just even just the boxers themselves, I can, you know, the one thing that I think the UFC has done better than any sports organization in history is the way that they have promoted the personalities of the fighters.

Like, that's why people, that is a huge reason, at least, why people get so engaged with the UFC. And so, like, they become very attached to certain fighters. And, you know, it's because they expose, they magnify who. who you are as a person, you know, from the ultimate fighter, the behind the scene stuff. And I feel like boxing and other sports, like they try to do it a little bit. But like they have not accomplished it even remotely close to what the UFC has done. And I'm not going to say that I know the way necessarily to do it, but somebody should take a deep dive into what the UFC is doing and how they're doing that. I was going to say, well, the reality is that like when you come up with gimmicks to try to separate yourself for the UFC,

and I would say like what PFL does is a gimmick with the tournament and the season and saying it's like a real season format, it's not. Fighting is not a season. It's not a baseball league. It's a tournament and it's weird points that don't really make sense. And, you know, and Bellator did that years ago. They tried to run a tournament every season and what happened. Disaster eventually struck. Some guy got injured.

somebody else got injured and then you end up with two random people in the finals. And, you know, tournaments were fun back in the UFC days when it was a one-night tournament, when you had eight guys and they would all try to fight and get to the finals. That's impossible now because the amount of damage you take in one fight wouldn't allow you to do a second fight that night in most cases. But, like, it's a gimmick. The gimmick you should be going for is getting people interested in your fighters. Like, yes, you can turn on and watch fighting anywhere. Hell, I can go out to a bar on Saturday night and see a fight if I really want to.

But why do I care? And you're right. It's the personalities. It's getting people invested in why they care about these fighters, why they care about that story, why they care about where they're from, whatever it is. The gimmick stuff, while I understand you're trying to separate yourself from the UFC, ultimately, people care about fighting. And they don't care about your fights. They certainly don't. I guarantee you out of all the PFL fans out there, and I have no idea how many there are.

But however many many they are, I guarantee you they're not sitting at home crunching numbers about how many fucking points a fighter scored to get to the next round of the tournament. They don't give a shit. They just want to see some cool fights for the people they care about. That's so true. Like people get invested in, people get invested in emotion, like more than anything else, right? That's why Sean Strickland got so famous, right? Like, he says some shit that fires people the fuck up, right? Either love him or you hate him, for the most part, right?

And like, that's what works. you know, he says shit that pisses some people off, shit that other people love. And he's just one example. There's a million people like that. And it doesn't even, the nice thing, the interesting thing about the UFC is it the matter what your personality is.

Like, they magnify it. You know what I mean? Like, you know, even like in, there's a million examples of guys that don't have exciting personalities. Or like GSP, right? like his personality, and of course he was a dominant champion, which goes farther than anything else.

But, you know, like, we know his personality very well. And the UFC embraced it, right? They're like, this is the clean, you know, clean cut, well-spoken, nice guy. And he goes in and kills people, you know. I mean, there's a million examples of this. And then, you know, of course, when you get the guys like Chale or, you know, like Sean Strickland, you know, the loudmouth guys, Kevin Hollins. You know, obviously it works even better.

And that's what Floyd did. He got people invested emotionally. Like, they wanted him to lose. Like, he was great at doing that. Absolutely. Yeah, it's funny you say that because, like, that's just, like, I just read an article today, and I don't agree with it. Like, in principle, I really don't agree.

It actually bugged me when I read it. But I also understand it's the world we live in because Patty Pimbleau was responding to all the callouts he's had lately, like Bobby Green and Hinata Moikano. One thing he said about about, Bobby Green is he's like, yeah, it'd be a fun fight, but he doesn't really have any followers. He doesn't have anyone that cares about him. So he's trying to gain fame by fighting me.

And I'm like, dude, Bobby Green's been around forever, fought everybody, been around. Like, that dude's a legend. He's fought everybody. But then I'm like, whether I like it or not, like, he's got a point in terms of, like, the world. Like, we've got to remember the world is bigger than our little bubble of, like, hardcore M. And more people probably do know Patty Pimble than Bobby Green. That's a, I hate that. I don't like it because Bobby Green should be known.

by everybody, but he's not wrong. I hate that that's where the world we live in right now. But, yeah, I mean, listen, your personality will get amplified. You mentioned everybody but the one name we all need to talk about, which is Connor McGregor. Connor McGregor became a star, yes, because the UFC had a platform for him, but it was Connor's personality. People loved him. People were drawn to him.

Yes, he had Ireland behind him, and that certainly helped, much like GSP with Canada. But ultimately, you still got, I mean, there's a million Irish fighters now. No one's even come close to touching Connor. Why? Because he has a personality that people care about. that's exactly right and even you and touched on a little bit too where these guys they get their countries

behind them like again like you rarely see that in boxing or kickboxing you know these other sports it's so rare or especially not in the team sports you know I mean you kind of get like your city behind you but you know does anyone really care that much you know like you kind of I don't know

I guess they kind of do but you know but like in any other individual sport like you're not to see guys with their whole countries behind them. Like in boxing, you'll see it a little bit from Mexico, right? Like they'll get behind like Marquez. They got behind pretty good.

Or Oscar de La Jolla. You know, like there is examples of that, but it's a very rare thing. Really, it's, the Mexico is really the only time I can remember a country getting behind a fighter. Yeah. Again, the UFC's done just a fantastic job of promoting guys like that and getting countries behind. Right now. who might end up being their biggest star really at a Portia. He's got Spain behind him.

And Georgia and Georgia. I mean, I know Georgia's not as big, but he's also Georgian. He's got two countries behind him. Yeah, there you go. So, you know, what just a brilliant marketing strategy. I mean, we can talk all day about the, you know, fighter pay and things like that, but you can't deny the fucking brilliant business that Dana and company have built.

And when it comes down to like just pure, you know, business and numbers and marketing strategies, I mean, they've done as good of a job as you could ask for from any business. 100%. And again, it takes cooperation from the fighters. You know, fighters have to put something forward to get, make be interesting. And you look at right now, like the next level of that. Like in like in terms of like regular star power, you look at Sean O'Malley, who is definitely a star and he draws up a crowd. And he draws up a crowd. But you're right. Ilya Tuporia might be the close. this thing they'll get on an international level to Connor McGregor because he speaks well. He's a interesting, intriguing dude. He's a vicious fucking killer in the cage. And he has like two countries behind him.

Spain being the biggest, of course. But like it's like the perfect combination of everything you have going for you. Like, I'm not saying anyone's ever going to be Connor. That's an unfair statement to make. But like the next international star who could potentially come as close to that would probably be Ilya to Boria. Yeah. And I would argue, you know, Tuporia could outdo Connor potentially because I see more longevity in Tepore and his style.

And like I could see him reaching higher heights than Connor within, you know, fighting rankings in the UFC. You know, and Connor had the potential, I think, you know, to go basically as high as he wanted. But, you know, I see or I see Ily defending his title more potentially. He's in, you know, a tough weight class. He's got fucking killers coming around him. You know, he's got a potential to be a two-division champ. But he has a great style for it, great athleticism.

And if he can outdo Connor in that sense, in his legacy, then he has every bit of a possibility of being a bigger star all around. He could. And we got to remember at the end of the day, star power matters, all that kind of stuff matters. but just like you talk about George St. Pierre, people love winners. I mean, George St. Pierre was one of the most dominant champions of all time. Israel-A-Sahia.

You know, Israel-A-Sanya had a very magnetic personality and all that kind of stuff. But why did people ultimately stick around? Because he's one of the best fighters on the planet. Like, there's a balancing egg. You can't be super popular and have a country behind you but suck ass as an actual fighter. Like, you still got to be good. You know what I mean? And when Connor was at his peak going into, like, the Mayweather fight after he had beaten Eddie Alvarez,

after he'd beaten Josie Alde. like he was on top of the world. Like that was his peak where he was number one everything. He had beaten Nate Diaz. He had beaten Eddie Alvarez. He'd beaten Jose Aldo. Like, he was on top of the world. And I understand why you take the Floyd Mayweather fight.

You get paid $100 million. Of course you do that. I don't fault him for doing that. But I think that was kind of the beginning of like the downfall where he stopped being his dominant of a fighter. And then since then, he's like whatever one in three or whatever in his last. And of course, you know, he had the injury and things like that. And, you know, Khabib Narbibagabagabat off as a fucking monster that, you know, he's going to

beat pretty much he beat pretty he beat everybody but like i said like you're right ilia tipporia like he's got all the potential in the world to be everything connor was in terms of in terms of stage and in terms of having a country behind him and things like that but he might accomplish more because he seems pretty devoted to fighting but you never know like i said dude starts making 20 million maybe he loses this focus too you never know yeah absolutely he seems from all everything we've seen so far he's got the mission in mind he's got the drive and he has his head on straight and he's got to keep doing big things but again who knows man you know you get the big enough paycheck and your head gets a little too big for your shoulders

and bad things can start happening that's for sure but everything looks great for him and you know he's probably not the only one we could probably think of other guys um i'm usually not good at recalling things too well but there's probably other guys that have like sean o'malley maybe you know If he can keep it up, I don't expect that he will. I think Marab's probably going to run through him. But, you know, if he beats Marab in convincing fashion, you know, the world is kind of at his fingertips too, you know. Regardless, you know, the whole point is the UFC knows how to build a motherfucking star.

Race the runners. Raise the sails. Raise the sales. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

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Absolutely, absolutely. You know, one guy who fought in the UFC and now became, I would say, a much bigger star outside the UFC, which is a rare instance. It doesn't usually happen that way. But Mike Perry did another bare-knuckle fight last night, knocks out Tiago Alves in one minute.

And I love what Mike Perry has become because it is so hard to leave the UFC and find success, not only because the UFC is the biggest promotion in the world they are. But like being a veteran of there, whatever he had 10 fights or 12 fights, or whatever he had in the UFC to leave there and then find more success doing something else. I'm not to say like lots of people leave the UFC and find jobs other places, go to PFL, go to Bellator, go to karate combat, whatever it is. but rarely do you become a bigger star leaving the UFC and Mike Perry dude like and I've said this to Mike personally

when Mike was in the UFC he was a bit of a fuck up he got arrested a lot he was always doing stupid stuff and saying crazy things and just not you know he was he was famous for kind of the wrong reasons as a fighter and now like he's still a savage he's still knocking people out he's still amazingly fun to watch but he's kind of got his acting guy he's got a family he's got kids he's matured he's just older I think is a big part of it

And, like, dude, it's so much fun. Like, I, you know, as a journalist, I can't root for anybody. But quietly, I kind of root for Mike Perry's success just because it's so cool to see a success story like that. Because it is inherent, it is just incredibly rare to see anyone find that much success, much less bigger success outside the UFC. And Mike Perry is doing it right now. If you were to draw up or build a robot of a bare-knuckle fighter, like, would it not end up? just being Mike Perry. Seriously.

Yeah. I mean, like he's just built for that shit, man, and he's doing a great job of it. I have my question. I didn't watch the fight, but I kind of questioned

going in where Tiago Alves' head was too. So I don't think it's a huge surprise, you know, that he beat Alves. In fact, he knocked him out in a minute is obviously pretty impressive. But,

you know, Alves said that he came out of retirement, you know, for the paycheck and went straight back into retirement right after. So, you know, I'm not sure how big of a win that is. But, yeah, man, Mike Perry, he's carrying bare knuckle on his back now. Like, you know, I don't know who any other champions are.

I don't know if Ben Rothwell, if he's a champion now because he beat Todd Duffy. I'm not even sure. He's not. But, yeah, you're right. He's not a champion right now. But, yeah, that's another one. Like, he's just a name. And I think that's like, in BKFC, you don't even need a title to be the biggest name.

Yeah, yeah, so I didn't even know that, you know. And I mean, I don't know. Like, do you know any other champions in BKFC? I know, I know most of them because I cover it. Like John Dodson is their flyweight champion. That's a name obviously I know you know. You know, he's their flyweight champion. Yeah.

Guy named Dave Mundell is their middleweight champion. Kai Stewards, this guy is a featherweight champion. But again, you know, and, you know, Kers. Christine Ferreira is one of their women's champion, but Britain Hearts, what are their other women's champions? Like, they have names, but it's almost like their champions are used to promote the regular cards, and then they do these big mega events and they bring out Mike Perry and Ben Rothwell and what they did with Pageman Zand.

Like, you don't even have to be a champion, but I love that because like they don't, you know, you can still promote cars with the actual champions and then you get names like Mike Perry to come in where no belt needs to be online. It's just Mike fucking Perry. See, they seem to be another organization doing a good job of just, embracing the world that is today. I mean, of course, they started later. You know, like real boxing obviously has been around since, you know, early 1900s,

so, you know, of course you're going to have old heads in there, but, you know, BKFC, like, they're embracing who they are. They're not trying to compete with other people. They're not trying to, you know, make a, you know, bring anybody else down along the way. So I think it's really cool what they're doing. I think they're doing a great job of it. Did you see the news that Connor McGregor is now part owner of BKFC? Yeah, like what a brilliant move, right?

Not only by Connor, but by the BKFC to, you know, however they worked it out. I mean, that's a brilliant move. I mean, now they got Connor that's going to be promoting it. Who knows how it. Yeah, like, if Connor does nothing else to post about them on social media during every event and like post little videos like yelling out fighters or posts the highlights or whatever it is. Like that's your investment. Like, dude, Connor McGregor has a reach that is unbelievable.

Like that, dude, that in and of itself is worth whatever you want to call an ownership share. I don't know what else he's going to do behind the scenes in terms of helping getting fighters signed or injecting money into the organization. But like the fact that you would have Connor McGregor, arguably the most popular biggest combat sports athlete on the planet, posting about your event on Instagram or posting about it on Twitter or TikTok or whatever the hell. like that's a win right there. Like that's just huge to have that guy promoting your events. I couldn't agree more. That's exactly it.

You know, he's going to be showing up to events. He's going to be having fun. He's going to be watching. I mean, he's showing up to the one event before he was even an owner. So I'm sure that's when he was in talks with them and getting things figured out. But, I mean, yeah, who else would you want? You know, like Floyd Mayweather is the only other guy that would make sense. to have as a part owner.

So, you know, man, BKFC's made some great moves. You got to be happy for that, man. And, you know, and it's, again, it's not boxing either. You know,

it's not our traditional boxing at least. And it's not UFC. Like, it's something completely new, which is cool. And I like that, you know, and it's,

and it's fun to watch, man. It's actually, you know, and I think where a lot of people don't understand, too, is how much safer.

actually is. Like it looks terrible, but there's less concussions, there's less handbrakes. Like, who would have thought that, you know? Yeah. Like, at least the data that I've seen so far, that's the facts. And that's pretty fucking fascinating, you know, like they got a safer sport that looks more brutal. It's obviously like shorter times, which is, I think I kind of turn some people off in boxing is how long it is. I think it's going to blow up, man.

I think it's going to just keep getting bigger and bigger. Yeah, I think, like, we, I know we talked about this before when the whole PFL Bellator thing came around, and again, I know BKFC is not MMA, but I kind of lump them in just because, obviously, some of their biggest fighters are from MMA, but, like, they're the real second, they're the real number two.

Like, they're the real number two in terms of, like, eyeballs. They sold a ton of tickets last night. they kind of create those viral moments. Like, you know, like you said, just like Mike Perry, like they've embraced all that. They embraced Mike Perry as a personality. Like they've done kind of the UFC game plan with that. Like they're embracing Mike Perry as a person.

I let him go out there and be wild and crazy and go out there and put on super crazy, exciting fights. And they're following the UFC model, except applying it to a bare-knuckle fighting organization. Yeah, what was the one fight? I forget who it was, but it was like the one, was just fucking insane, man. It went viral.

I seen it at least three or four times posted. Oh, the Anjulo fight, the former boxer, the champion, Anjulo, the dude had a fucking crazy 90-second fight with his opponent. Dude was grabbing his hair and fucking punching him. It looked like he was getting knocked out. And then he comes back and fucking knocks him out. It was literally one of the craziest fights I have ever seen in my, Jeremiah Riggs and Alfredo Angulo. That was the one.

there you go that was it and again moments like that are what helped get the eyeballs on the sport and i don't know why um you know again boxing yeah i keep going back to that because i just hate the model that they're still doing the same things that they've been doing for so long and it's been slowly going down but then they have a big fight like garcia haney or like obviously you know when floyd was fighting or you know we offer rights when he fought arrows against him or Thai period it's like you know they get like nobody gives a shit about boxing and then all of a sudden we get this big fight and they're like oh we're doing everything right we just made all this money and it's like you can be doing 10 times more

yeah you're absolutely right like yeah the haini the haney garcia fight was big fury and uzick's gonna be big but you're doing that six seven times a year you could be doing it 10 times a year you You can be doing it 12 times here. You can be doing it more than that. And you're right, though. I think that's why boxing gets stuck in its ways because they'll have that big Ussig Fury fight. Like, see, everything's fine. Everyone paid attention to Fury and Ucic.

And then as soon as Fury and Usoc are done, no one gives a shit. Like, dude, I watched that Haney Garcia card and I was bored out of my fucking mind up until Haney Garcia. That was one of the, like, it was just a, it was just not a good card. I didn't know anyone. I didn't know anyone's name. Didn't know who anyone was and the fights weren't good. I lost all interest.

And then when they finally got to the wall. one fight I cared about. Of course, I got juiced up and excited, but that's a problem. Like, you've got to build your guys. Like, we all, like, I don't know every UFC fighter now. I surely don't. And I'm not going to know every UFC fighter on every single car, but there's going to be, like a Patty Pimbley.

He's not a champion. He's not even a contender. But everyone knows Patty Pimbleet. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's none of that really in boxing. Like, you don't have anyone who's not a title contender. You don't know anybody in boxing. Exactly.

And even, but, but exactly to exactly to your point, though, if you, go down a UFC card, like you're going to recognize at least like half the guys on a decent card. Some cards nowadays where you're kind of like, I don't really know any of these people, which is fine. But

on most cards, like you're going to recognize at least half of the guys and not more. You know, on a decent paper review card, you're going to recognize almost one side of every fight. But like you said, on a boxing card, like I follow boxing.

and pretty closely. And I was bored as shit too. Me and my son, I was sick as hell, but me and my son were sitting, staying up late to watch the Annie Garcia fight. And he was falling asleep. You know,

my son loves boxing. He was stoked to watch the Andy Garcia fight. And he's over here fucking falling asleep. And I'm like, dude, even if the fight isn't that amazing, if they do something to build up, you know,

just show like, who are these guys? are they fighting? What are they doing here? Where do they come from? You know, like, is there any story behind this? Or is this just two guys that want to be boxers like everybody else? You know what I mean? Yeah. No, you're right. Every pre-fight boxing breakdown is always the technical stuff. And I get it. I understand. Like, I appreciate the technicalities of boxing. But like, that's all they talk about. They're like, yeah, his last fight, he out jabbed his opponent 10 to 1. And he has a great right hand. That all matters. I'm not saying that doesn't matter. But, you know, people.

People care about him. Like, where's he from? He's from Puerto Rico. He's from Mexico. He's from Spain. He's from France. And he was the French boxing champion. And he grew up, you know, we all know.

We can recite Francis and Gano's fucking story because that's how much they built him up. He was homeless. We all know he was homeless in France. Discovered M. M. Wanted to be a boxer, became an MMA fighter, became a UFC champion. End up going to boxing. Every casual MMA fan could recite that story because we all know it.

They built it up in France and Gano's story. Now, do we know that he has this? the slickest jab in all of them and may not necessarily but we know a story people care about stories exactly um is that molly mccan if they put on a fight in britain and the uk and she walks out the fucking crowd goes nuts patty pimble the crowd goes nuts these are guys that like molly mccan's not even a fringe contender right like she's not you know patty pimblet may never be a top 15 guy. I think he's got a chance, you know,

but again, that he's got a chance, right? Have you ever in your life seen that in boxing? You know, where an undercard guy on the fucking prelims that may one day be a fringe contender at best that has no real, like no one really believes they're going to be a champion,

and then the fucking crowd goes nuts for him. Like, it's unheard of. I've never heard of anything like that in boxing outside of influencer boxing which guys are making a fucking shit ton of money too and fans are getting behind

these guys like Jake Paul that'll probably never be a top 10 boxer. I think he's actually got you know he may have a chance. I don't know. I don't think so but you know regardless

there's no one out there saying like dude he's definitely go be like a contender for a title someday. But guess what? He sells out the fucking arena. Yeah. No, dude, you stole my answer. It's like Jake Paul is boxing fringe Patty Pimblit.

Like, people care about him. People buy his fights. People care what he does. But he's never going to be a contender. And I'm fine with that. Like, I know he talks a big game. And I don't, I applaud him for trying. I doubt he'll ever be that.

I doubt he's ever going to be a world champion. I doubt he's ever going to be a top contender. But that's, that's Patty Pimblit. Like, I don't think Patty Pimblit. don't think Patty Pimble's ever going to be a champion. I don't think Patty Pimble's ever going to be a top contender. But guess what? People care when he fights. People tune in when he fights. People buy his merch. People watch his YouTube channel. That's Jake Paul. That's what boxing has. And boxing doesn't embrace it. Like, boxing refuses to embrace that kind of stuff. And they just stick with,

like we said, like pure using, man, it's a big fight. Everyone's going to care about it. Great. Awesome. What happens next month when, you know, fucking the number nine heavyweight fights the number 11 heavyweight. Does anyone give a shit? Does anyone even know their names? No. That's the problem. them. Exactly. Like Derek Lewis fights, like a lot of people are going to watch.

Absolutely. You know, what's he ranked? What, number eight, number nine? Yeah, down far.

Yeah, he's had a couple long. He's like nine or ten now, I think something like that. So, yeah, I say he's been like eight and ten.

But I guarantee him, he's not going to headline a paper view right now. But I guarantee, like, I'm going to want to watch, even if it's just for the fucking post-fight interview.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Real quick, before we get out of here, I want to ask you one question on this card coming up this week in UFC 301. Of course, I don't want to disrespect Alessandre Pantosian, Steve Ursa, gets a fun fight. And I talked to Anthony Smith. He's got a big fight coming up against Vito Petrino. I love that fight as well.

But I want to ask you, Matt, because you're a guy, I mean, you know the sport. You've been around, obviously been a fighter for so many years. Jose Aldo's coming out in retirement to fight on this card, and he's taken on a very tough matchup in Jonathan Martinez. And I think we all know what's going on here. Jose has one fight left on his deal. Now, the UFC gave him permission to go box, and he did do that. Like, he was doing that kind of on his own. They weren't bothering him.

He's kind of doing his own stuff. But he had one fight left on his deal. This fight's in Rio. I think we all know the story. They're bringing him back to sell tickets and sell card in Rio, and that's why it's coming back to a certain extent. I'm curious, like, what should we expect out of Jose Alto this weekend? Because I'm a little afraid for him because I don't know how much he's been trained in MMA since he put his focus on boxing. I mean, of course, at his best, Jose Aldo was a savage,

and in my opinion, obviously, one of the best featherweights of all time. But Jonathan Martinez is a quiet workhorse, man. That dude is nasty. He's good. He's a good boxing. Got great leg kicks. He's been active. I don't know, man.

Like, I'm a little worried for Jose coming back for this one after not fighting MMA for like two and a half years. Yeah, I think it's a great question. And obviously, it's hard to give a prediction on that. But I also think that Jonathan Martinez is a good matchup for Jose. It's just a matter of whether Jose O'Do. is, you know, where his head's out. If his head's in there, I mean, I love Jonathan Martinez,

but I think he's a pretty good matchup for Jose. If Jose Auto's timing is there, his leg kicks are there, he does what he does, I mean, he's an absolute killer, you know what I mean, he's a very, very tough guy to deal with, particularly when he was in his prime. But I think matchup-wise, I do think it's a, good matchup for Aldo. Yeah, I think the real question is, what Aldo are we getting?

Are we getting an Aldo who's coming back to fulfill a contract and sell out seats? And Rio, are we getting an Aldo that's coming back full force and he's going to look like the Jose Aldo, who basically lost a close decision to Marab two and a half years ago in a not very exciting fight? And it wasn't like the greatest performance for either guy. Are we getting that guy back? Are we getting a guy who's just like, yeah, let me just do one more fight.

Let me hear the Rio crowd one more time. Let me sell some tickets and get out of here. That's what scares me. Is he coming back for the right reasons? I guess that's what I'm saying. Is he coming back? Is he coming back? He feels like, man, I just got one more fight.

I want to go out on a win. I want to, you know, I want to end my UFC career on a big note, in my home, in my home country in front of a huge crowd. If that's the Joe Zahlda we're getting, dude, I got no doubts about it. That guy's a legend. But it always scares me when a guy comes back from me. He was retired. He retired. He left the sport.

And then just suddenly coming back, it always scares me like, are you coming back for the right reason? No, exactly. right we both just said the same thing in different words i mean it's uh you know fortunately it is you know the right type of matchup for him you know someone's probably just saying with him it's it's not a marab it's not a guy that's just to go in and shoot doubles yeah yeah so again fortunately it is a good matchup for him i don't see jonathan knocking him out or finish him at least it's just a matter of if hose still has it and and like you said come back for right reasons his mind's in it.

It should be a competitive fight. And again, I think, you know, if Jose is where he should be for a fight, you know, he should be able to figure out a way to win. If he's not there, then, you know, and I don't want to discredit Jonathan Martinez either, because maybe Jose comes out, you know, the best Jose we've seen in years, and Jonathan still wins, you know. and we don't even and that's where it's kind of a lose-lose for Jonathan

right because if he wins it's like oh you know Jose's on he has one foot out the door if he loses and he lost to a guy who's got one foot out the door yeah that's got a substitute but you get I know why he takes it

like there's Jose Aldo like of course you take the Jose Aldo fight you know so yeah we'll see it's interesting yes this is not the most exciting pay-per-view in the world but I said this leading into it and I'll say it again now. UFC 301 is crawling so UFC 300 could walk. Like that's all it comes down to.

Like, we sacrificed UFC 301 for the benefit of UFC 300 because in reality, Alex Pereira and Jamal Hill should be headlining this card. And we'd probably be a lot more excited about it. But, you know, that had to go on 300. And listen to you, 301's great. You got Islam fighting Dustin 303, of course, with Connor coming back and Chandler. So, you know, we got one kind of lame. pay-per-view this weekend and then we kind of ran it back up in a couple weeks with the card in Newark.

So, you know, I can live with it. You know, one bad pay-per-view every now and again, it's going to kill us. UFC 300 still got me buzzing, so I really don't give a shit that 301 is not the greatest card in the world. Yeah, it is what it is. I'm still going to watch. You'll still probably watch and we're still going to enjoy it. And a lot of times these cards go under the radar and they end up being some of the best fights,

right? that was my biggest scare about 300, except that one we talked about a little bit before. A lot of times, like, the most hyped up ones end up being the worst ones. 300, fortunately, lived up to the expectations for the most part, and 300 was also, it was a hard to miss, right? With like Holloway Gagey, for instance, like it's hard to miss on that fight. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, they did right. Like I said, man, that car was incredible. And like I said, I'm fine with it. I have no problem if 300 was amazing and 301 is kind of mediocre. And you're right. Mediocre sometimes turns into great fights. You know, Steve Urseg's looked really good so far in his UFC career. Aldo coming back, that's always going to be intriguing.

Anthony Smith, a Vitor Petrino has some potential. I talked to Anthony. He's pretty fired up for this one. So, yeah, like, again, I'm not, you know, it's not like I'm calling my friends. But, you got to watch this. But it's going to be, you know, you never know what you're going to get. Dude, I was down on last night's UFC card. Then fucking Alex Perez comes out and just deads

Mateus Nicola out of a fucking vicious hook and puts him down in brutal fashion. I'm like, yeah, it wasn't the greatest card in the world. But goddamn, that finale was good. I'll tell you, Steve Versig, I'm not going to sleep on him, man. I mean, Pantoja is really, really good and really has a way of finding ways to win fights and is just able to, no matter where the fight,

like just keep it a fight, you know, and and finds ways to put it into his favor somehow. But boy, Steve Versing, obviously, you know, we're risking it being too early for him. Obviously, you know, this is a big fight for him really quick. But, man, he has some skills. And I'm actually excited to see that one. Yeah, I know it's a good fight. I think Steve's looked great. And again, I agree, maybe it's a little early.

I don't know. Pantosia's a monster. He's looked incredible since, you know, getting to the championship and, of course, becoming champion. The way he picked apart Brandon Roy Vall was super impressive. So, yeah, I mean, listen, Pantosia is the favorite. He should be the favorite. He's the champion. But Ersek is incredible.

He's done nothing but great things since arriving. And yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's just, you know, like anything else. It's not, it's not U.S. 300. It's not even Mike Perry, Tiago Alva. It was like, that was a monster fight this past week. And it's not that. But, hey, they can't all be.

And guess what? We get one kind of okay pay-per-view this month, and then boom, we go right into two. Next month, Islam McAchev and Dustin Porier, and then we got Connor coming back against Chandler. Again, dude, who's really going to complain? Ultimately, really, is it that bad of a deal that that's we're going to get one card that's not a blockbuster? No, I could live with it. Yeah, I guess it depends on how much you value 80 bucks, right? Or 70 or much out of these days.

Exactly. Yeah. Hopefully they make some sales in Pantosia or Ersig, you know, whoever's getting pay-per-view points. So hopefully they make some fucking money, man. Yeah. Like you said, you know, it's not, you know, at least in America, it's not anything that's going to draw big. But hopefully, you know, the Brazilian fans get behind it. They do a big gate and it turns into a big, great card. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, folks, we're going to get out of here. We'll be back next week to break down somewhat.

happens to UFC 301 and also kind of start gearing out because we got a big month of June coming up of course with as I already mentioned islam Ocatchew and Dustoporri and of course Connor McGregor's highly anticipated return new BKFC owner Connor McGregor making his highly anticipated return to the ring or return to the octagon I should say Matt what do you got coming up where can people check you out and throw some support your way I'm immortal on Instagram and Twitter at the Immortal coffee check out Redwood outdoor sign us keep following me on Instagram social media, see about all of those.

And, yeah, buy you some damn coffee, man. It's the best coffee you ever have. I feel like I got an idea of some social media I'm going to pitch you on after we get done recording. I'll pitch it on here because I want you not to be able to use it and someone steal the idea. But I'll tell you about it after we're off the air here in a second. But yeah, always support Matt and everything he does. And, of course, we appreciate everyone tuning into the show.

Make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify. of course over on the best website in the world. MMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen.

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