MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Blasts Toxic MMA Fandom After Anthony Smith’s Arrest, Reacting to PFL-MVP Merger

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the news that the PFL is merging with Jake Paul’s MVP and what that means for the future. Does the new MVP have a chance to actually challenge the UFC or is that just a fool’s errand? Plus is Usman Nurmagomedov destined to sign with the UFC now that he’s a free agent? We also react to Anthony Smith’s recent arrest and Brown takes aim at the toxic fandom inside MMA that has exploded in the wake of that shocking news. All that and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown and Matt. We are back for the attack after a couple week layoff as you were down in Costa Rica. Hand a little kind of vacation combos slash running a seminar down there. So how was Costa Rica? Man, that's how I do my vacations. You know, I like training all the time.

So, you know, even if I'm on a vacation, training, like, makes it so much better. like some boundaries a lot of people they go vacation they just completely you know relax and drink or do whatever they do man when you go and you train and you bond with some good friends and meet some cool people which is what the retreat is right we get usually like 10 to 15 people come out and sometimes it's new people sometimes it's repeat people I think we had four from last year but you know a bunch of new people right and you get to learn about them and and just connect on another level and train and then hit the beach and surf and eat some fresh mangoes.

And well, last year, not this year, we went fishing and caught a tuna, brought it back and ate it. We actually caught two tunas, brought back and ate it. You know, it's a beautiful thing, man. We were just hot off air, right? Like I was at a different place after the retreat and disconnected for four days, no service, no internet. and all we did was farm all day.

Not farm, but it's a farm that we're on, like a fruit farm. So we went out, picked mangoes and limes and goldenberries and leach. You know what liche is? You ever heard of this? Yeah.

Yeah, they're freaking awesome. You know, so just picked all these fruits, brought them back, ate them, and it got to do it with the family. Like, that's a whole new connection

with the family when they can't, you know, get on chat GPT and see what this fruit is. It's like, yeah, we got to figure it out, you know. But, yeah, so this is a great time, man.

I love it. And hopefully we get some more people next year, you know, and get that, like, 20 to 25 mark next year. So the retreat, you're doing it yearly. So it will be another one next year. So it's like a combo, like martial arts retreat, but also like a beach vacation. Yeah, yeah.

It's right there in Nassar, Costa Rica. It'd be August 7th to 14th, next year, by the way, in Nassar, Costa Rica, which has probably the best, like, surfing in Costa Rica. you know Santa Teresa is up there also Nasar is really really good for beginners and intermediates you know if you're like an advanced surfer it's not going to be you know the most exciting place for you but how many people are advanced surfers right

and yeah the waves are perfect we stay at a place called the Gilded Aguana well I take that back we stay at the retreat but I go to a hotel called the Gilda Aguana that has a surf club and yeah it's just beautiful man It's an amazing place. And it's nice to just disconnect from American hustle and just feel that pure Vita is what they call it, pure life.

And it just to feel the chill vibe and just relax and slow everything down and just you get to focus on your training and eating great food. And man, like what a great time, man. It blows my mind that everybody isn't going. there every year. Yeah, it's a good way to relax, but also, like you said, like it's martial arts. So you got kind of like the best of all the world to end one your treat. Yeah, well, what better way to relax than to train?

You got to get that energy out still. You know, you can't just relax. You've got to get all that energy out. You know, and I don't think you bond with people better than trying to choke each other out. I don't, or punch each other in the face. I don't think there's a better way to bond with another man. I love it. I love it.

So next year it's used as August 7th to the 14th. August 7th to 14th. Where do people find information about it? They want to check it out for next year or whatever. So the hotel we stay at, retreat space, I should say, we stay at, which is a hotel slash retreat space, Cassis, Kis, K-I-S-M-E-T-com. And you'll just look up the retreats and there'll be the Immortal Matt Brown retreat and go on there.

And I'm sure I'll have a link in my bio soon for next year. We don't have it all set up yet, but I have a link in the Instagram. bio and yeah you know I'm just I'm excited man to wait another year I'm not excited to wait a year but you know in one year I'm excited that we're doing it again next year and yeah

it's a great time man very cool very cool well Matt obviously you've been away a couple weeks away the MMA world just kind of slowed down a little bit so you didn't miss a ton obviously obviously outside of maybe like Connor constantly touting his comeback which we don't really need to talk about that until it actually happens. But probably the biggest news over the last couple of weeks as we gear up for

UFC 330 in Philadelphia here on the 15th is news that the PFL is merging with MVP and forming one kind of like, you know, conglomerate combat sports organization that will now be called, you know, just MVP. We obviously saw a Friday night's event. I don't know how much you saw of it, but, you know, Usman and Magamatov knocked out Archie Colgan, super impressive. Dakota Ditchewa made her return, but more than anything, it was the first event with Jake Paul being right, you know, front and center, Nekisa Bedarian being front and center, being in the cage, you know, being part of the organization. I think from what I've heard, they're going to play out the rest of this year as the PFL,

and then starting in January, it will officially switch to everything being MVP. And now, you know, they're doing boxing, obviously, they're still doing boxing, they're still going to do MMA. But, you know, lots of questions, you know. Obviously, we got PFL's TV deal is coming to an end. end of this year. You know, that's, that's going to be, you know, their ESPN deal ends in December. Are they going to get a new deal? Are they going to try to go on their own and just do events on, like, YouTube or something? I don't know. So, Matt, I want to get your initial reaction. Like, good thing, bad thing, you know, kind of wait and see. Like, where are you

out with this? Because obviously Jake Paul has been a player. You know, they did that Netflix card, like it or not. It did great ratings. And, you know, they got people to watch. But, you know, it was like a one-off event, you know, rebellist to Spain. I don't know if you saw. He already re-resied with the U.S. and then Saras Aladin Parnas, probably the best prospect they found already signed with the EOC. So, like, they didn't have these guys under long-term contracts and that's what happens. So what do you think? Like, good thing, bad thing?

Where are you having this merger? Yeah, I think it's certainly a smart thing for both of those companies to do, right? To come together, join forces and try to build something big. Unfortunately, they're in a space where they're all, they're still just going to be number two. They might get closer. You know, right now they're kind of a distant number two. They might be, you know, they might shred some space off of that distance, right? But they're still just going to be number two, you know?

Like you're not getting anywhere near the UFC. And I thought Dana actually, I agree with what he said. He's like, we're competing with major leagues and shit. We're not worried about what these, you know, peasants are doing. He didn't say it like that. but, you know, I think he's totally right in saying that. And, you know, the interesting thing I thought about that was, you know, they called it a merger, but I'm not sure what PFL is really merging with.

Like, like MVP doesn't really have an infrastructure. They kind of do one-off events every time. It's not really, there's not really any infrastructure there to merger with. So, you know, I thought that was kind of the unique part about it. And, you know, I'd be curious to see how the finances end up working. out with that, which I didn't I didn't dig too deep into it or anything either, but

you know, I don't know what the finances are there because, you know, and PFL has a lot of investors too. So, you know, what does investors think about this? And, you know, I think there's a lot of stuff behind the scenes that could probably get really interesting if someone dug deep into it. I mean, to me, it's

stability. You know what I mean? Like, they're just taking, you know, a company that seems like they're doing well in boxing. They found they kind of carved out their niche with women's boxing and now they're bringing in an MMA organization and I will say like Nekisa and Jake seemed to you know they got a good business plan

like they're not overreaching you know they're not overpaying they're kind of sticking in their lane with what they're doing in boxing you know they're not going out and saying we're going to sign you know I don't know you know they're not trying to sign Ryan Garcia on day one you know what I mean they're saying they found they trying to find their niche and kind of you build it out from there and when

they did their Netflix car remember that was Netflix paying the bill Netflix is like we'll give you so much money to do the card and then you do the card. And so they did the card. And they brought in Ronda Rousey and Gina Carrano and Francis and Ghani and blah, blah, blah, blah. So it wasn't like they were just flush with cash and they're just like, we're going to make this card huge. They got it from Netflix, which, by the way, there's nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think it's stability. I think that's good because, you know, these last couple of years, you know, questions keep coming up. Like it feels like a guy, PFL is kind of losing people. You know, they're not, they don't feel very big, you know, people are not really growing. People aren't really excited about the product. and their ESPN deals coming to an end. What do they do?

Like, where are they going to go? Are they going to downgrade? Is they going to be, are they going to sign with something, you know, I don't know. I'm not trying to make fun of them or anything, but some kind of like sea level streamer or something. Like, you know,

they're going to stay on a major organization, major platform like Fox or something. I don't know. So I think it's good in that regard. What does it mean for the future? I mean, really, it just depends on, like, you know, what they do because they're not getting, listen, let me just get this other way right.

You're not going to compete with DOC. You're not. You're just not. That was my whole point, yeah. Like, I get it. You know, you want to say those things. Oh, we're going to beat them and blah, blah, blah, blah. You had one event and you had a megastar attached to it, Rhonda Rouse.

Guess what? Ron ain't fighting at every event. And there aren't that many megastars out there for you to promote with. So I'm glad they're doing it. It seems like it's like, okay, I think this is a good thing for the overall organization. It's going to bring stability and hopefully a more opportunity to fighters because there's going to be like a solid number two out there that isn't going away in the next year, six months or a year or whatever.

But you're not going to commute to the EOC. Get that out of your heads right now. Like you're just not. Like that game is over. You've lost. Like that's not going to. You can call it that. You can say, oh, we're coming out of the EOC.

We're picking a fight. Great. You're not going to win. Just know that up front. You're not going to win. Yeah. I always wonder why guys like PFL. you know or Bellator back in the day even like maybe a one championship but like why none of

these have have ever tried to go to Congress and change the laws right because that's the reason that the UFC can monopolize and why they can control the entire sport and why they'll always be number one because the laws are in their favor if they if there was something as simple as an all the act which is probably about to get revised and this wouldn't actually work and this is probably why they're doing this for the Alley Act, you know, on top of for their boxing, but also to protect MMA, because if, say, the PFL or MVP went and got the All the Act instituted into MMA, just simply that one year, I think it's a one year clause where you can't tie someone up, you know, for more than one year or something. You know, I'm not quoting this exactly perfect either,

but there's some sort of sunset closet in the All the Act. That's one of the things you can't have guys under these long-term, you know, five, six-year contracts and, you know, use up all their prime, you know, with you, right? There needs to be purse bids and stuff. If these organizations would just simply work to get the laws changed, they would have a fucking chance. Well, here's the problem that they won't because they don't have the influence. Yeah.

I mean, I mean, they don't. But like, they don't even try it. But look at, look at, look at, look at, I mean, I, I'm not, it almost feels like you're fighting, you know, when you're fighting a losing battle here, it's like how far do you keep going? But it's like this Ali act in boxing. Like, we just saw the Senate reintroduced it. There's a few, like, I guess minor provisions. Nothing really changes in it. Yeah, nothing.

But really it comes down like, you know, Dana White is going on and hanging out with Ted Cruz's podcast. He's getting invited to the inauguration. like Ari Emanuel, who's one of the richest dudes on earth, like, you know, he has huge influence in politics and entertainment and things like that. Like it or not, and that's just the reality is like Jake Paul, Nikisa Bedarian, the businessman, we all know them, but they don't influence dog, they don't influence absolutely dhibitly shit when it comes to politics. So that's the reality.

Right. Don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. I understand that's an uphill battle too. But they're trying to fight a dick. swing contest with the UFC, right? When you're trying to, you know, outspend and or, you know, you know, try to get better fighters. I mean, you don't have a chance.

At least, you know, if you try to change some laws. Sure. Look, I mean, midterms are coming up, you know, and, you know, if it flips, which it probably will, then, you know, now you have a better chance, right? I mean, that's, you know, there's just, there's, there is, I see like, paths to a victory there where I don't see it in just a dick swinging money spinning contest. Well, like, remember the guy, I think it was the guy from Oklahoma, Mark Wayne Mullins, who was a fighter, and he was one of the people who are advocating.

But now he's like an ally of Trump. He's not even saying dick about this new Ali act. So that's the reality. Like, you know what I mean? And yes, you're right. Maybe a Democrat gets elected president in the next election four years or two years from whatever it is and you know the whole congress but what is their priority at that point is their priority m-ma like you know they get that bill are they gonna are they gonna are they gonna rush it through

because man they need to save m-ma or are they gonna be you know try to undo or you know that when you're playing the politics game and try to change loss you know it's a fucking long game right sure sure you're like okay hopefully this gets done in five or 10 years you know but start influencing now right but my point is that not like that nobody is even going down route the laws are built against them right now and it's going to get worse when this all the revision act passes you know for better or for worse right like a you know that's a whole debate in its own we've we've talked about before but for better or worse the fact is that is your your route to success like again a dick swing contest you're not going to win yeah and and you're absolutely right

And you're right. Like we're talking about this. Like, who you need to change the law. But the reality is the law is about to change the other way for boxing. Like you're about to change the other way. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, at minimum go in and try to stop that, right?

Yeah. But so let me set that aside because that, you're right, that is like usually a year's long process. They're obviously rushing this through right now because they know with the midterms coming in November, the entire Congress could change and then they have no chance of passing it. And like you said, they have the influence to do that. Right. Yeah. You know, they got all the cards, right? They got the fucking, you know, they got four aces in their hand.

You know what I mean? So, like, like, they're cool. But, yeah. But again, what I see, you know, MVP and PFL try and do is a dick swing contest. And it's like, like, you know, you got a fucking limp dick. I don't know. Well, no, and here's the reality, like, because you're going up against an absolute juggernaut. A monster.

And you can't, like. We consider and talk about like that Netflix car where they talk about how well they paid everybody and like the minimum salary was like 40 minimum home was like take home was like 45K or whatever which is awesome and they stand by their word of like paying guys and girls and they're not you know that's not just all lip service

but just like what like what happened like like I'm not even talking about rebellist Hispania because he was in the UFC did not look great and then obviously you know he's coming back but look at Saladin Parnas that was probably the best young prospect they had on that car. You know, Mike Perry was a veteran. Nate Diaz, obviously, a veteran.

A lot of veterans on there, guys you knew, and guys were already kind of had their own star power. Saladin Parnas was like the name. He was like the prospect. But they signed him to that deal for one fight, which is what boxing does, which is what, you know, they don't have an organization, so he had one fight. He wins, looks great.

And you're like, okay, where does he go now? You have already signed him. He's main eventing UFC Paris against Dan Hooker, and I'm quite sure he's under a four- or five-fight deal. He ain't going anywhere. He wins. He becomes a superstar in Paris. He ain't leaving.

He's in the UFC now. And that's the reality. And like it or not, the UFC is the gold standard. It is the NFL. It is the Major League Baseball. Guys has aspired to get there. Guy, and you're absolutely right. I've heard people talk about this.

I think it was Anthony Pettish years ago. I care who it was, but like talking about taking less money to go to the UFC. Yeah, because you want to be in the UFC. You know, this is no different than a baseball player or a football player saying, I'm going to take less money to sign with this team because I want to win a Super Bowl. I'm in my 30s. I got like two years left. I've got a couple really, really good years left.

I really want to win a Super Bowl. So I'm going to sign with this team that's poised and ready to win versus taking more money to go sign with a team that's going to probably suck for the next three years. Because I got two years left. I want to win a Super Bowl. They're like, I want to prove them the best of the world. you're not going to prove you're the best of the world being the MVP champion. You're just not. I'm not saying it's fair, and it may be utter bullshit.

But perception is reality, and the perception is the UFC is, and by the way, most of the time that's true. I'm just being honest. Like, you know, 98% of the time is true, you know, the best is in the OC. But that's what guys aspire to. I don't hear guys being like, man, my dream growing up was to be a MVP. champion or a PFL champion. They're like, I want to be a UFC champion. Just like boxers like, I want to be a, you know,

a WBC champion or a WBA, whatever. They're saying I want to be a UFC champion. So you're already fighting against perception that you can't win. So my, my, my, I don't know, I don't say advice, but my best, like, course of action is like, just carve out your own lane. You know what I mean? Like, like, when UFC bought out pride,

Now, this is years and years and years ago, but when they bought out pride and they bought out Strike Force and they bought, you know, these organizations, they didn't necessarily see them as a threat, but they saw them as somebody who's kind of doing their own thing and they're like, okay, we don't want them to get any bigger, so let's just bring them into the fold, and they bought them out and they brought in all the fighters and blah, blah, blah.

That's what you want. You want to be that, like, you want to carve out your own lane because, like, UFC doesn't see one championship as a threat. They just don't. Well, I mean, the perfect. the example was BKFC, right? They carve out of lane, right? And, you know, they're not threatening the UFC.

The UFC actually, I think, works with Feldman, right? And BKFC, you know, they enjoy each other's company, you know, each other's businesses, right? And, you know, the fact is, look, in the fighting world, very, very few fighters, athletes are business people, are business-minded. you know it's generally younger kids you know with some fucking screws loose right that's why you go into MMA and not to college or whatever right you got some fucking screws loose

and you uh you know you want to fight the best of the best like that's your entire goal as a martial artist as a fighter you want to fight the best like I guarantee 99.9% of fighters would go fight fucking John Jones for a thousand dollars rather than fucking some PFL guy for 50,000, right?

Because, you know, the, the, just the opportunity, the, the brand awareness. And of course, you know, first and foremost is just the opportunity to challenge yourself. That's where fighters' minds go. That's why we're supposed to have managers and agents. the managers and agents in this world of UFC MMA work for the UFC so you know you're not getting you know they're brokers right I mean we've we've talked about this before too right these guys aren't helping the business of fighters and the ones that are I mean they're helping the best they can right they're under the the thumb of the UFC right they don't have a lot of other choices and and again I mean I say all this not to be hating on the UFC you either, right? Like the business model they built, I've, I fucking give it praises all day long, right? This is, it's amazing what they've done. It's, it's insanely powerful and strong. I mean, it's, that's why they sold for over four billion fucking dollars, you know, good for them.

But, you know, people got to understand that. And, and, you know, the Jake Pauls and the MVP's and PFLs of the world, it's, it's seemingly that they don't understand all this stuff. it seems like they don't and again they want I've said 10 times I've said 10 times right like they try to get in this dick swing contest with Dana White

and I'm like guys you're barking up the wrong tree yeah and you're fighting a losing battle because like even we just talk about money like it's also and this is by the way this is not let me be clear about this this is not me knocking Jake Paul

and MVP and what they build some for they're doing great stuff actually yeah but the reality is like even if we get into like a money thing like they can't just pour money into this Like, they don't, like, Jake and DeKesa have built their own down. By the way, and to their credit, they've carved out their niche in boxing. I've invested.

I got to tell you that why are you talking about that? I hope they do. I hope they fucking pour billion dollars into this shit. And they raise the market value. Yeah, 100%. But a lot of people are going to lose fucking money. Yeah. Because the UFC will still win that battle.

Yeah. Well, that was my point. There's like market value. Yeah. And that's kind of what you have to do. Like right now where they're at, like, Usman de Maventov is a free agent. I don't know if he saw his fight on Friday,

but he looked fucking good. And Khabib's like, he's the best lightweight outside the UFC. And, you know, and he's, you know, obviously U.S. He's playing close to the Vest, you know, I want to get paid, but legacy, you know, so on and so forth. And then last night, someone asked Dana, you know,

what about Usman DeMereganel? He's like, sure. And he had a big smile on his face. I think Usman's gone. Like, I just. think he's gone. I think he's coming to the UFC. Not even really, I mean, he's going to get paid. I'm sure the UFC's

going to give him a good contract because he's obviously very, and he comes from a camp that they love, like they deal with the, the, uh, he's, he's all he's camp all the, he's manager. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. This is not, this is not going to be a combative negotiation. Like, they're not, you know, in a situation where they got like a manager like, oh, my guy's got to get paid, no,

he's going to come to you. And by the way, but we'll get the only way that they keep him is with, and, and, and, exorbitant amount of money. And I think like, well, to that point, to that, yes, but I think, I think Oussman's gone regardless. I think he wants to prove he's one of the best lightweights in the world. I mean, look, everybody's for sale to some extent.

When I say, exorbitant amount, I mean, if they say, look, we're going to give you $10 million for every fight, he might be like, yeah, you know, all right. Yeah. But then you got to look into, you got to think about the, you know, I think all he would probably convince him to do that because he'd get his little cut, right? But then you got to think about, you know, Usman's culture too, right? Like, is money what he's really after? I mean, I don't, you know, I'm not going to speculate on that

because I don't understand that culture that well. But from what I do understand, like, he's in here to be the best in the world. And he knows, again, you might, I mean, I say 10 million. You might have to say, like, 50 million because, you know, he's playing on going to UFC being champion and making $10 million. You know what I mean? So that's why I talk about this dick swinging contest where it's like, He's like, dude, you don't have a big enough dick.

The Uspan thing, but I do, I'm like I said, I'm not going to say me and Uspur best friends. I just know from interviewing him a bunch of times that I think he's, I think he, like, he knows. Because like when he was in the PFL and Islam was champion in the UFC, he's like, I'm not the best lightweight. Islam is. Islam's the best. Blah, blah, blah. Islam left and went to Welchway. Now that door's open. He doesn't have to worry about running into his friend and teammate, the guy who's literally in his corner on Friday night.

and and and and and and and i think kabee has like you know his father's legacy like that's very important him we all know that like what his father built and oosman was part of that because he was still a young kid when when abdul monop was you know running his school and running his team i think usman's gone regardless of money unless they just offer him just like a ridiculous amount of money which i don't think they're going to do because i don't think they have the funds to be like we're going to offer you 10 million a fight which by the way is ridiculous when you don't have a tv deal you don't know what's the next year ousman's gone okay and by the way I'll just say this right now.

I think Uspan's absolutely a top five lightweight in the world. And if you're Ilya, if you're Charles Oliva, if you're Arm and Sarukin, you better watch your fucking back because Uspan Namaamaamaama McAoff is the real deal, man. And anyone said, oh, but he has a fun. Look at the camp he comes from, dude. Khab and Islam, those guys don't fuck around. He's not coming from some random Russian team. He's coming in.

No, he's coming in from the Nirmagamatov team. We know what we're getting. Yeah. And to add that on top of that, I mean, all the fans, anybody that's a hardcore M.A fan that knows who Ousman Nemehameda of is, we want to see him in the UFC. Like, well, I'm ready to see that. I want to see what he does against Ilya or Charles or Arman or even Gage, you know,

the champion. And, you know, I want to see it. You want to see it. Like, I'm ready for that noise. I said, I talked to his coach Javier Mendez a couple weeks ago, and I said it kind of feels like Usman's outgrown the EOC. He just doesn't really, or U.S. The PFL, he just doesn't have, you know,

Archie Colgan's a good fighter. He is, but he just ran through him like hot butter through night, or like a hot knock through butter. There's just a real, who's he going to fight? Like, you know what I mean? At some point, it's kind of like Kayla Harrison. Eventually, she's just like, yeah, I made a shit ton of money. PFL treated me great, but I got nowhere left to go.

I need to go to EOC and fight that competition and become champion, which he's done. Usman needs that, too. Let's just be real. Like he needs that to. And by the way, I don't think PEOC's going to offer a peanut. It's like they're going to make him a good offer. They're going to pay him because he's going to, you know, just like Saladin Parano's coming in day one headlining UFC Paris.

They'll probably sign him and he'll get, you know, an Olivaura or an Armin or, you know, I don't think they'll get him Ilya. But, you know what I mean? Valver's booked a fight, right? I think he's fighting Armin again. I think they're doing that rematch as the plan. Yeah. It hasn't been announced, but that's the plan. But you get my point.

When the chips fall and they start picking fights, whoever's going to go, whatever. So, Ousman's gone. Let's just go ahead and write that. If he doesn't go to UFC, I'll be shocked out of my mind. But somebody like Dakota Ditcheva, who is a star, and, you know, obviously, women's in a maze in a really not great spot right now, but people like her. She's very popular. I can tell you from whenever I read articles and do interviews with her, she's very popular.

that's the one. You zero in on her, you get that deal done. When we're getting back to money, you're not, because you're just not going to match. Because, like you said, if you get into a dick swinging context and the UFC really wants to sign someone, they got more money than God. And not to mention, like, look at the boxing side.

Everyone pissed on what was doing it. That's turkey. They got a relation with Turkey. He's got all the money on earth. MVP doesn't have that. They don't have that backer. They don't have Elon Musk as their financial man just paying their money.

bills you know you don't have an endless check so you make smart decisions you sign the people you can sign and you start building up and i can't say it loudly enough just carve out your own lane do your own thing whatever that looks like because you're not going to be the UFC you may get some ratings you may i've heard they're talking about doing a francis and ganoe fight early next year and maybe putting that on netflix great we've talked about that like you could probably do decent issue numbers. Do that. Carve out your own lane with the guys who are out there, but you're not, you're just never going to, you're never going to topple the OC. You can say you're going to. Great. It's great. It's great PR. But the reality is you just need to carve out your own lane,

just like they did it with the women's boxing. Women's boxing has been scattered for years. They've organized it. They brought in the fighters. They've got to deal with ESPN. Do that for the PFL. I agree, man. Yeah, there's a, yeah, it's a, yeah, it's going to be. be cool to see what they do, man. You know, because this merger does bring a lot more power to both sides. And, you know, Jake Paul will certainly get them a lot of publicity and a lot of promotion. Yeah, so it would be kind of interesting to see how they play their cards. You know, the MMA card, I've argued for a long time, is not really the card to play.

But that seems to be the path they're going. And, you know, we'll see what they do with the boxing stuff. And, you know, I mean, I don't think women's, boxing's ever going to be, you know, kind of what the, the, you know, the UFC made women's combat sports viable, right? With Ronner Rousie and, you know, Misha Tate in the day. And, you know, they made that a thing. It was sort of a flash in the bucket.

They hit lightning in a bottle, which the UFC has been fucking tremendous about doing. They find that lightning a bottle, Connor McGregor, Rhonda Rouse. But that was all flash in the bucket shit. I don't think that's coming back. You know, and I think, you know, these, you know, I think that's what they're trying to find with these other guys. And, I mean, Dana said himself, there's not going to be another Connor McGregor, right? And I think there's probably not going to be another Rhonda Rousey. So these guys, they're in a real uphill battle.

I respect the grind. I hope the best for them. I hope they do some good things. They're probably just going to be number two, you know. And there's nothing wrong with that, by the way. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. As long as you're surviving, you're paying the bills, fighters are getting paid. It's a good thing.

And the cool thing, they will still put on, you know, these MVP-level shows. They'll find guys. They'll find a way. They'll be those shows that just blow it out of the water. You know, when we're talking about number two, or we're talking about, you know, the long-term sustainable product that gets fans into their ecosystem and into the infrastructure they built, you know, that's the bad. that you need to solidify, right?

And that's the bucket that you need to fill. That's a very difficult task. And maybe, I don't want to say an impossible task, but it's about as close to impossible as you're going to get. It's only three weeks away. If I'm MVP right now, I'm calling up the promoters who are doing this judge, this Mike Perry, Dylan Danis fight,

and be like, let's get involved. Like, let's do it. Because that's the kind of crazy shit. But, like, I'm weirdly interested in that. Like, I know it's not a great fight. I know it's not like a world-class MMA because as, you know, Dylan Dan, that's as good as he was in Jiu-Jitsu. It has, like, two MMA fights.

And I think Perry should probably knock his head into the eighth row, but still, people will watch it. Get involved in that. Put some PFL people on that card, whatever, and just do a co-promoted card. Who's putting that on? Just a, I don't know if you know the guy named Dean. His name's Dean Tool. He's a great promoter. Been around for years.

He's done a lot of promotion stuff. He does island fights. He's done a lot of things. He's a promoter behind it. It's a new promotion. They're kind of starting with it. And so, you know, they're building a card around. They're going to bring in.

I think they're going to do kickboxing fights and some, you know, some other fights that just aren't in MMA. But they're just kind of doing their own thing. Which, by the way, that's not, there's nothing wrong with that because I'm sure people are going to watch that fight. I know they are because I know the announcement blew up. So good for you. And, you know, like I said, good for them.

Not knocking it. But if I'm Jake and Nikisa, I'm like, hey, guys, you got Jake Paul. You got a Mike Perry fighting in like three weeks. Can we get involved? because why not? Like that's the kind of fight you want to bring attention, you know, because like you said, like they're going to do their MVP cards with like,

you know, when they get Francis or maybe they, like I said, maybe they do get Ronda to come back for one more fight and they somehow convince her to fight Holly Holme. There's, you can still do those fights. Just like I said, but still you're carving out your niche. You're carving out your lane because long term, you know, we're like, oh great. And like I said, just like exactly what happened with the MVP card.

Rhonda fought, yes, the car was what it was, but we're talking buzzing, buzz and buzzing, and then boom, right after we were on to the White House. And then we were on to Connors return. And now we're on to Islam fighting, you know, I'm a Machado Gary and number one powerbound guy in the world. Is Usman going to come to EOC? The conversation always switches back to the U.S.

Whether you like it or not. That's exactly right. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. But that's it for that. Yeah. Not a lot more to say about it.

Yeah. I mean, by the way, let me just say, before we get out here. Like, good luck to them. I hope they, I want them to succeed. I want them to succeed. It's better for the fighters if they succeed. Like you said, raise the market value.

If they can get. For the fighters, yeah, if they just, you know, actually put a lot of capital into it and really try to succeed, you know, even if they don't. Maybe, maybe Oussman's first contract with the UFC starts out of $500,000, whereas it would have started at $250 because MVP's like, hey, we're going to pay you more. And like, all right, we've got to up the offer.

We got to make sure. we get this guy. Good for them. I'm sure Parnoss is probably part. I don't know what he's getting paid, but I'm sure they had to pay him something decent, you know, so that's partially because MVP put him on that Netflix card. So I want them.

I want them to succeed. Matt, I feel like we have to talk about this because this was big news last week and there's a little personal interaction for both of us. Of course, I'm sure everyone saw by now. I know everyone saw by now that Anthony Smith got arrested, got hit with three felonies out

Nebraska. People have come out. His wife has come out, but out a statement basically saying she believes it was a mental health issue and the police kind of failed him in that moment. He's been charged. He's been out, you know, he got out on bond. And by the way, as the resident

criminal reporter for M.M.A. fighting, because I report on all this stuff, that's kind of my thing. I have access to a lot of the police databases. And so when guys get arrested, I'm like the first one on the scene to dig this up, talk to prosecutors. The reality is like, I don't, listen, Listen, I don't love when guys get arrested because you don't get all the facts up front. You just get the charges.

You get the very bare bones. And I understand it always looks bad. It always looks bad. And I kind of hate it, but that's the reality of, I mean, listen, we didn't get arrested. Like, you get arrested, it sucks, but that's the reality. You get arrested. You get it with charges. The charges come, and the charges say, terroristic threat or, you know, kidnapping or, you know, domestic violence,

which to me is always a big trigger word. and clearly very, very bad. And as more information comes out, you know, you get, you know, we got a little detail from the prosecutors where they talked about was an incident in the bar and he had grabbed his wife

and, you know, tried to kill her and then they got home and he hit it with the car and you're like, what the fuck? And his wife has said now, like she believes it's a mental health episode and that's why she was calling to save him from himself, not that she felt she was in danger.

By the way, certainly not saying that's the truth, not saying that's justified, just saying that's what she said. And to be totally clear, Anthony Smith is a guy I've had a personal relationship. All fair. Like, I've always had a really, really good,

I've known Anthony, like, when he was a regional fighter and we talked and did interviews. And, like, I remember when he got back to the UFC, and I think it was at his fight with Rashad Evans. And, like, he saw me, he gave me a hug. He's like, dude, I'm back. I got back or whatever. He felt good.

He felt like he made. He made it. And I was like, awesome. Congrats, man. Great for you. Always been a really good dude to me. Never been, like, always been an incredibly good dude to me, both on and off hair.

That being said, obviously, I'm not certainly justifying any actions or any criminal activity he did. But I want to ask you, Matt, we talked about this with the Dustiporier thing, which, you know, looking back now, we're like, Dustin, he did something stupid, but it was, you know, no one got her, blah, blah, blah.

We've talked. I don't want to rehash that. And I know Dustin mentioned the appreciate your words because I know he said he saw what you said about him and his situation. What do you make in this Anthony Smith situation? We are obviously, this is the nature of the beast.

we are so quick to judge. We are so quick to condemn. We are so quick to just be like, well, his career's over. What do you make in this whole situation with Anthony Smith? As much as you know, by the way, and by the way, we don't know everything.

He's not gone on trial. He's not gone to, you know, none of this has played out in the courts yet. Yeah. You know, this one is a, does cut a little bit deeper, I think, than, you know, a lot of these other incidents that happen. So, you know, being that Anthony

Smith is a is a respectable guy I mean simple so does support you which good we don't have to go back to that but um you know like I have a personal relationship with them you know always been a great guy to me too um I'll tell you what turned me off on this whole thing was the fan reaction when I read the comments you know and I thought Brennan Schaub had had a great uh little rant on this you know talking about uh how he you know he knows he's a good family guy like he's met his kids and stuff up before. But this fan reaction like really bug me, you know? And, you know, these fans, God, you know, like I'll say, I'll say as clear as I came, right?

These motherfuckers need to lay off Anthony Smith, right? And that doesn't mean I'm going to defend what happened. We don't know what happened yet. But I'm not going to defend it, you know, because cops were called and, you know, his wife was certainly feeling, you know, something that she shouldn't have been feeling. It was not a good situation. So I'm not going to say there should not be accountability. You know, but we weren't there and neither was, you know,

100% of the people that are confidently judging his life from headlines and social media posts. Right. And that's where that's where I'd like to just chime in and be like, hey, you motherfuckers, like headlines of social media posts are not real life. You know, I know Anthony personally. I know his character. I know he's a good dude. That doesn't mean that good people don't make serious fucking mistakes.

It doesn't mean that I'm going to pretend either that this one moment tells the complete story of who he is. But we could take this whole thing seriously without defaming Anthony Smith, without making jokes, attacking his family, calling them different names, you know, in celebrating someone's downfall. You know, accountability is one thing. You know, cruelty and entertaining yourself with someone's downfall is another thing. So, you know, I hope the best for Anthony Smith and his wife, and I hope that they get their shit together.

And I hope that this, ultimately, I hope this comes out to be. be a nothing burger, right? Which it won't, right? It's clearly something. But I hope that it comes out to be a lot less than what the headlines make it to be. I mean, the reality is like, and it's shocked, it's just like, it very much is just like Dustin Pori, because it's out of nowhere. By the way, I'm not trying to belittle the guy.

I'm certainly not trying to insult the guy. I'm just using his example. You know, when John Jones got arrested for whatever the night time, we're all like, oh, it's John Jones. We all kind of come to expect it because he does stupid shit. and, you know, we're like, he got arrested for DUI again, or he got arrested for this. We're like, well, you know, and by the way, it looks like John has really cleaned up his act, by the way. Like, he seems like he's really good for him. But, but he didn't like it before too, right? But Dustin Port, but it's just like Dustin Porre getting arrested.

Dustin Porriere, because he's just such a, like, you're just like, this is like the peak of like good dude in MMA. Like when Connor got arrested for the ninth time, you're like, all right, it's Connor. But, like, when Dustin did you, like, Dustin Porier, and I'll be honest, when I saw the Anthony Smith and I was like, what? And I looked it up and I got the mug shot and I was like, what in the fuck? Like, I'm just like, this is like so out of left field. But you're absolutely right. Like, we don't know the whole story. And I hate that like, yes, the reality is you have to write and write a story around what's information is out there.

And unless Anthony Smith and his lawyers decide to put out a full statement and, you know, say what's they're not going to do because it's a court case. They can't do that. But police are, you know, that's part of public disclosure. They put out information when people get arrested. And so that's all we have to go by. and yes, it looks bad, and maybe it is bad. I have no idea yet, but you're right. You can't condemn a guy, and especially, like, you've got to go by track record.

You know, this is not a guy who has, like, this huge arm length of criminal record, and you're like, well, he's just fucking up again. He just graduated to domestic violence, which is obviously awful, horrible, horrible crime. But domestic violence also carries a wide range of what that actually means. And when you read his wife's statement, you're kind of like, okay, you know, like she didn't feel in danger. She was scared for him. We can get into a whole other conversation about treating mental health and how police respond to mental health. That's been a big topic of conversation for years.

But, you know, like, there's no need to, like, the guy's already at his lowest right now. Like, he has had his absolute lowest. He probably, I'm not, I don't know this for a fact. I'd assume Paramount UFC probably is like, you're done. Like, you're not getting on any broadcast forever, if not, you know, maybe ever again. Because unlike Dustin, which was a minor misdemeanor, his is like, free fallonies. Like, where he's looking at potentially jailing serious jail time. And by the way, I'm not debiliting

the seriousness of the crimes, but like, Paramount's just probably like, you're done. Like, go away. And he can't realistically go on TV and be like, let's talk of fighting. And they're like, dude, he's, so his career's fucked. And he's probably at his lowest moment. Remember, this guy is like five kids. His kids

are hearing about this. There's no way they're not. He's at his lowest already. Do we really need to kick him while he's also down there? Do we really need to be like, ha ha, you fucked up. You're over like, you know what I'm saying? Well, here's what

amazes me about this community is I've talked about this a million times. I was just talking about a little bit ago, right? Look, the fact is like, I don't know why people expect MMA fighters to be like these, you know, stand up amazing people.

Like, we go into a cage and beat the shit out of people for money. right we're risked our lives for money like there's some fucking screws loose to begin with okay like like don't expect you know the fucking uh you know all the philanthropic and best people in the world to be in this sport now a lot of people including myself killed a lot of demons by fighting this sport and we became better people through this sport this journey made us into who we are that doesn't mean that those demons aren't still there and when you you think of someone like anthony smith or dustin porier or you know like i don't put uh one of these situations past my own damn self

right you know i i think i'm uh well beyond that in my life but you know who knows right the fact is like there were a lot of demons inside almost every fighter And the sport, you know, when you have this purpose and you have this mission in the sport, it's a lot easier to push those demons away. And then when you get through the sport, those demons may resurface. You know, and everybody wants to go straight to like CTE or fucking, you know, and that may be the case. I don't know.

But, you know, everybody wants to go straight to that. And it's like, it's like, dude, like these are all fucked up individuals. We're fighting in a cage for our fucking. money like we're fucked up people we're not going to harvard and and fucking uh yale or whatever or even you know most not even going to like regular colleges right like these aren't like i don't know what what people expect out of the type of people that come into this sport and it and what my point is saying that is like it's a tragedy when these demons arise again we shouldn't celebrate we talk about their fucking careers and you know you know or or you know whether you know they came off

you know lost a bunch of fights before he retired so he fucking sucks you know like this is all fucking uh just stupid bullshit that people throw on top it's like it's like no like these are the vast majority of fighters are fucked up people that you know they need your support at this time. And again, I'm not going to justify what he did. I don't know what he did. It probably wasn't good. So, yeah, I'm not going to justify it. But as my brother in this sport, I'm going to support the motherfucker and hope that he gets through it and can find peace and make amends with his family. Yeah, I agree. The word. Because a lot of people have reached out and asked me because, A, I've covered it because it's my job, but also B, because I've done so much with Anthony over the years.

and he's co-hosts his podcast when you've been gone before like he's been around forever um i just say it's heartbreaking i'm heartbroken it is like i'm heartbroken for anthony i'm heartbroken right right there damon is what bugs me the most is you know when maybe it's my own fault reading the comments right you can say whatever you want about that right you know don't read the fun comments but when when i see the post the headline the anthony smith you know dv goes to jail blah blah and then all the comments are all fucking berating him or making fun of him or saying this stupid bullshit and you see very few if any that are like man that's sad like i hope the best you know i mean like you said it right like it's heartbreaking it's a tragedy and and whether whether it's

the fucking you know the guy down the street that does it your neighbor or whether it's a professional athlete you know in the headlines it doesn't matter like it's a heartbreaking story And these people need help, right? Like, he needs some help. 100%. That's, like, that's the hell there is to it. Like, he, like, I, well, I don't get, in, in so many, I mean, you see especially on the internet, but even just a real life, like, like, people chime in on things that just don't help the situation. Just to, like, have their voice heard because they, they feel so fucking insignificant in their, you know, living in their fucking basement or playing their fucking.

call the duty all day, whatever they're doing. They feel so insignificant. They feel like they need to chime in something to bring everybody else down to their level. And I'm just not about that. And there's too much of that in the MMA fan community. And, you know, I mean, all I can do is say I'd like to see it stop. It doesn't mean that it's going to help a goddamn thing. But, like I said, I'll, and I, I know you know, I know you notice.

I'll say this again real quick before we get out of here. but the reality is Anthony Smith is already his lowest point right now. He's serious. He is in the depths of hell right now. He is. Like, this is the worst, like, he had built a career for himself. He had built a career outside of fighting. Like, he's, the head, that great analysts, you know, all these kind of things.

He's already in a, to quote, a full metal jacket, he is already in a world of shit. There's no need for you to shit on him even more. Like, he's already, you think he, you think he's low, he's low. lower than you probably think right now. Guarantee it. And it sucks. And I feel bad for it. That's actually a great point, right?

Because knowing Anthony Smith the way that we do, and so much of the community knows Anthony Smith, right? And Dustin Poy are the same. Like, they're going to be their own harshest critic. Like, they're going to be put in themselves. They don't need you to put them down more. That's not what's going to solve this issue. And to be fair, also, you know, they don't need you justifying what they did either, right?

Like that, I'm not saying that at all, right? Yeah, we're not defending his actions. We're not saying like, yeah, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the actions were either. So there's nothing to defend, right? Yeah, but, but like these guys are going to get down themselves. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, they may let their emotions take over and get even sadder, right? And it may, it can make things worse.

So I don't know what these fans think when, you know, chiming in, you know, with some negative bullshit. is going to make anything better, right? Like, do you want the fucking situation to be better or do you want them to, you know, get worse, right? I mean, like, what's your end goal here when you're saying this kind of shit? Yeah. Are you trying to push them over the edge?

Like, are you trying to make it get worse? Like, like I said, the word I've used and I'll continue to use is heartbreaking. I've been a heartbroken for him, his family, his wife, his kids. And, you know, we'll see. We'll see how this all plays out. I mean, hopefully, you know, like I said, I have no idea how it's going to play out.

And that's also the problem. We don't know. So what is the, why are we just kicking the guy when he's down? Right. When he's, he's already down. I promise you. Like, this isn't like he's celebrating that he'd go into jail. And he's like, yeah, I went to jail.

No. He's in the worst position he can be in right now, man. It is heartbreaking. And yeah, like I said, and just, you know, we're way too quick to judge. So quick to judge and just, you know, and quick to kick a guy when he's down. He's down. You don't need to kick him while he's already down. And look, my opinion of all this could change too.

Sure. If some shit comes out that, you know, that, again, I just find it so far out of his character, you know, maybe he had a mental health episode. Maybe it is CET, right? But I don't want to jump to all those conclusions. And that's what I say, like my entire stance on this could totally change, right? If it comes out that he chased his wife down and did try to fucking run her over, and she's protecting him as a victim, you know, because these things happen, right?

Sure. You know, the victims a lot of times defend the attacker and, you know, these things happen. I'm not going to jump to that conclusion right away, right? At first, because I know him, I know his character, I know who he is. First, I'm going to send him love and support. Now, if some shit comes out, you know, that could all change. Like, nope, lock the bitch up. I don't go to fuck, right? Yeah. But I'm not going to be. to start with that because I know him, I know his character. Yeah, we don't know anything yet. So there's no, yeah, you're a thousand percent right.

We could find out in both, be like, well, fuck this dude, but we don't know anything. So, yeah, and then, you know, he's a, no and his character. All right. Matt, so we got a fight. Man, I got to tell you the card this weekend is rough. It's, uh, uh, Coil and Sal killed against Matush Damrock, which is a solid five. And man, the undercard is rough. Uh, but then next week, of course, we get, you know, Islam.

and Ian Machado Gary, so we'll get into that more. Next week we'll do our preview show, of course. Matt, where can people check you out? They see what you got going on now, you're back from Maxin and Relaxing and Marshal Martin and Costa Rica. Where can people check you out? The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. I am the immortal Instagram and Twitter.

Well, it's good to have you back. It's weird not doing a show to you every week. I was like, this is odd. I'm not recording a podcast. This is so weird. I'm glad you're back. Obviously, I'm glad Costa Rica went well. And we'll be back.

obviously more Fighter versus Rider next week. As I said, we'll be doing our full UFC 330 preview next week, which is Islamian and obviously McKenzie Dern and we've got a lot of fights to talk about so we'll get into that next week.

For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you then.