MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Calls For Pereira vs. Jones, Reacts to Chandler Potentially Getting Title Shot

Episode Date: July 2, 2024

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to everything that happened at UFC 303, Alex Pereira’s prospects at heavyweight and a possible showdown with Jon Jones plus Michael Chandler teasing a potential title shot against Islam Makhachev and much more. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we are back with another week.

Post UFC 303, and you're always a busy man. So I always appreciate you jumping on doing the podcast. What's new in your world? Well, I did finally get to watch a pay-per-view event. Well, half of it. So from what I understand, the first app wasn't much to watch anyway, but got to witness history with Alex Pereira. That was amazing, as always.

Yeah, got to watch Dan Ege step up, which was pretty badass. And somehow, you know, I stayed awake the whole night too. So I'm pretty impressed with myself, dude. Maybe I'm not as old as I think I am. Yeah, for those curious, usually Matt, you watch pay-per-views on Sunday because you fall asleep on Saturday. Well, I just don't even order it on Saturday because I can watch it for free on Sunday. And it's like, what am I really missing out on? Like I just go to sleep and wake up and watch it in the morning versus staying up half the night and then missing out on sleep.

Like I'd rather miss out on the fight. Yeah, well, you know, like I said, I mean, you're not, I mean, if you're not, if you're not like good. And I can look through Twitter or Instagram. Yeah, sometimes it kind of ruins it if you see the wrong tweet or whatever. But, you know, you might see, okay, that fight's not worth watching. And then you just save yourself an extra, you know, 15, 20. 30, 45 minutes. The only time I ever got mad about a fight getting spoiled, and this was my own fault, was back in the day, you remember back in the day when the UFC used to do shows of like the UK and stuff, they would time delay them.

So they'd have them in the UK, and then they'd show them in the States at like 8 o'clock at night. So you had to avoid the results during the day. And I'll never forget, it was when Mirko Krookop fought Gabriel Gonzaga, and I was working at the time, like a regular day job. I was working like a regular day job. and I did everything possible to avoid the results that day and then someone texted me and they're like, holy shit, did you see that knockout? And I was like, what, what?

And they're like, crow cop got knocked down. I was like, you mother fuck. I was like, I avoided this all day. I know, I avoided this all day. And it was like, it was after the, it was like two hours after the fight was over. Like I was maybe like an hour, hour and a half away from the show airing.

And somebody texted me that and I was like, you mother. That's a pretty bad spoiler, too, because no one expected that. No, that was a huge fight. Like, no one saw that coming. I was watching it as like thinking this is going to be like the crowning achievement of Crow Cop becoming UFC heavyweight champion. Instead of it's knock on his end. Was that Crow Cop's debut?

That was his second fight. He beat Eddie Jordan, I think, was the guy's name in his debut. And then he got knocked out by Gonzag in the second fight. Yeah, yeah. I remember that first fight, he fought some guy that probably shouldn't even have been in the UFC if I remember right. Yeah, no, not at all. He was just a guy throwing in there to lose to Crow Cop. Yeah, and nonetheless, in the UFC fighting freaking Crow Cop.

Yeah, but, dude, because I was a massive Crow Cop fan. I mean, I loved Crow Cop, dude. That dude was so vicious, man. I loved watching Crow Cop at the Pride Days. And I was convinced he was going to come over with his wreck shop at the UFC and didn't work out that way. Did not work out that way. And there was something about his aura, too, man. You know, not even just he was so vicious and everything, but there was something about his aura and pride.

I don't know what it was, but there was like, like when he walked in, there was something in the air. Yeah. Have you ever met Krocop? I'd never have. So I met him once. This was years later, he was in the UFC. And I care of what show it was.

I was covering he was there. And like, I don't, I'll be, I'm not saying this like, oh, I'm so cool or anything. Like, I don't really get nervous to meet, like, do interviews with people because I've been doing this for 20 years. And, like, it's just part of the job. Like, you know, like, I've interviewed everybody. I've hung out with Rhonda Rousy, Conner, like,

Like none of them, I just, it's a part of my job, I do what I do. But I got a little nervous with Crow Cop. I was like, this is fucking Mirko Crow Cop. And boy, I tell you what, I feel like totally justified because as intimidating as he looks in on TV, he's equally as intimidating a person. Like, you can't get a read on this guy. Like I was kind of like asking him questions and talking to him. And he was responding, but he's kind of a little bit like grumbly. And I'm just like, oh, shit, did I piss him off somehow?

No, that's just, when it was done, he shook my hand, thank me. And I told him, you know, whatever, you know, I've been watching him for so many years, whatever. And he's just like, oh, man, thank you so well. He was a really nice guy. But in the moment, he's just so intense. And I was like, oh, shit, he's about to head kick me right now. Dude, there's definitely a, I don't know, there's an air about someone when you know that they've murdered people. And they're like, okay with it.

Yeah. And we got to see him, like, halfway murder people on TV. But, like, he's, like, murdered people in cold blood, like, face to face. and you're like, yeah, there's something, you know, there's something about that he's got a thousand yards stare. You know, there's something about being that close to someone. We're like, dude, like, you would do that and sit down and eat an apple, you know, right after doing it.

Do you remember, I know you had to see this? Do you remember the video they did with the prank? They played Amara Rinalo back in the day with Crow Cobb. Do you remember that one? The Pride video? Oh, dude, you got to see it. As soon as we get done to record and go see this from back of the day. and Morrow was interviewing Crowcock before one of his fights

and Crow Cop started making reference to something he had said during commentary but it wasn't Morrow, it was a different guy but Morrow kept like trying to keep a prefat it was like one of those pre-fight before the event you know so they show it during the during the event and so like he's interviewing him and he's like you know so I'm here with Mirko Crow cop blah blah and Crocups like you said that thing about me during my last fight and it was it really wasn't Morrow was another guy And Mario kept trying to explain that to him.

And Mirko just kept, like, agging on and getting more and more pissed off. And you could tell Mara was sweating bullets. Like, he was, this dude's about to kill me. And it was a boss root and set him up. He had him joking. And then Crow Cob laughed. And, like, they were fucking with him. But you could see, like, beads of sweat just pouring down Maro's face.

Because he was like, I mean, because Mirko was like dead serious. He's like, yeah, why'd you say that? And he's like, no, that wasn't me. He's like, but I heard you say it. And you're like, oh, shit. Well, I got an even better one for you. Have you ever seen the. Crow Cop movie.

No, I have not. I got the DVD somewhere where I found it in a bootleg, you know, in New York City, you know, like there's little bootleggers on the side of the street. They used to be like, you know, just on the sidewalk. Yeah. God, I cannot remember the name of the thing. It's called Deadly Force or Power Force or some shit like that. You have to look it up.

And, dude, it's the absolute worst movie you can possibly. imagine, but it's got crow cops, so it's just fucking awesome. You just love it because it's crocop. That's awesome. Yeah, I was a massive crocoph fan, man. Like, back at, like, I don't, I never was really, like, into, like, owning MMA gear or anything, but, like, somebody sent me a crow cop shirt one time. I have actually one of some of the only shirts I own, I own a Crow cop shirt,

I own a Fador shirt, and I own a Mortal Matt Brown shirt. And then I have a WC, I have a WC shirt that they gave me right before they stopped doing business. And I have the affliction, Fadorne, versus Josh Barnett shirt that never actually happened. That's cool. That's cool. No hammer shirts.

No, no hammer shirts. Hammers never got me a shirt, man. You never hooked me up. To get you sober as cool shirt. Yeah, never got me a shirt. But yeah,

I have, I have your shirt. I have a Fador shirt. Which one of mine do you have? It's the one, like the affliction shirt, like the brown and, yeah, that brown and black ones.

Oh, yeah. And I do have, actually, I have a, I have it. I've never worn it, obviously, but I have a Steve Miochich, ultimate fighter jersey,

for when he coached against Cormier. I went up to Cleveland and interviewed Stipe and he came out and he's like, here, dude, he gave me a jersey. I thought that was nice of him, so. I'm not like necessarily the hugest affliction fan. I don't think anybody is anymore. I mean, you know, that style I think is seen its day.

But I got to admit, it was pretty badass when one day, I don't remember why I was in a buckle store, but I was in there. Yeah, I had a friend that worked there. So I was just kind of shopping around, you know, just browsing, looking around at different stuff. and lo and behold, there was a Matt Brown Affliction shirt in a fucking Buckel store

Look at you I mean I had to kind of you know soaked that in a little bit right that was like a huge feather in the cap I forgot Buckle existed dude just completely blew my mind by mentioning Buckle I forgot all about that store

I know I think I don't I don't know if anyone shops there anymore but they still exist you see them at the mall Yeah does anyone shop at malls anymore There's a better question. I do. I mean, if I'm going to go buy some clothes, I'm not going to buy it online. Yeah, I do everything online, man.

I go, I don't want to shopping online, though. You don't never go to like, like, if you're wearing, like, nice clothes. Like, I got a decent amount of, you know, nice clothes to go out on dates with or, you know, to a nice get-together or something. you gotta go try it on Make sure it's gonna look right Feel right Yeah I can see it

I have a I have a couple suits that I own I had like two suits And that's pretty much like you're not gonna buy a suit online No I wouldn't do that I don't do that I don't but yeah But like when I buy most things I buy online We have one mall here in Columbus called Easton It's all like mostly outdoors

And that's where I generally If I go to the mall that's where I go to the mall I don't really go to the other malls around here But yeah I don't really don't really there's a mall right by my house and it's like a sad mall it's like all the stores are closed so it's just like yeah it's like the depressing mall like you just walk around there's like one store for every like four shops yeah yeah it's a pretty it's a ghost town nowadays and they used to be the spot yeah it used to be

did you ever did you ever in your in your many early days did you ever work in a mall because i never did did i never worked in a mall lord no uh i'm i'm not a fan of malls by any means but like i'll still go shop there get some nice stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I never worked in retail, but I never worked on them all. So I never had that experience. Yeah. Yeah, but Alex Pereira worked at a goddamn tire shop.

So respect to him. And now here he is on UFC 303 fucking banging motherfuckers. So I just want to first off take my victory lap because I picked Alex to win. I was waiting for it. And you didn't. That's okay. I can't tell you this. I can tell you real quick, I regretted that decision about 10 seconds into that fight.

Maybe, I don't know, maybe about a minute. Just like Yuri had, it almost felt like he went in to lose. You know, like there was something, like I said before the fight, I picked Yuri because I was like, dude, there's something in air. I feel, you know, Yuri. It was a gut thing. It wasn't a technical analysis. I mean, Alex, we all knows 10 times better technically and all that. but I was like, dude, there's something about Yuri.

I just feel it. And that all went straight out the window and like less than a minute in. And I was like, dude, why the fuck did I make that pick? I know I'm going to hear Damon talk about that on Monday or Tuesday or whatever, whatever day this is. Yeah, I was saving up for it. I had the same. No, I mean, I picked Alex, but it was one of those things where it was, again, kind of a gut feeling because neither guy really had a training camp. Neither guy was really prepared.

and I actually thought that Yeri was more prepared because I feel like he had been kind of like training since U.S.C. 300 just waiting for the day, whereas I know Alex, like, legitimately wasn't Australia doing like a media tour and like gym tour like down there teaching seminars and stuff. And then right as soon as the fight started, Yeri came out and the way he approached him in the striking almost,

and I mean, I don't mean this disrespectfully bad. I know you know what I mean. almost like fearfully engaging with him. Like he was kind of like, you could tell he did not want to deal with that, but yet he didn't really have an alternative plan to go for a takedown. And as soon as that first couple exchanges happened,

I was like, this is going to end badly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, exact same feeling I had. And Yuri said it best to give him credit. He said after the fight in his little statement, did I need to evolve. I kind of assumed he was going to be preparing for rematch with Alex Prayer and probably had evolved.

And it was, I think we seen pretty quickly. I think even Alex was waiting for this different Yuri. You know, it seemed like he was just kind of waiting and he was looking at him like, are you sure this is like how you're going to approach me? Like this is basically the same thing, except you're actually being more apprehensive than last time.

And it just maybe Yuri needed more time to game plan and more time to evolve or something. but like I say, Yuri said appropriately, he needs to evolve. If he's going to beat a guy like Alex Pereira, he's going to beat a lot of guys, right? Like he's the, you know, he is a clear contender. He's going to fuck a lot of guys up. But to beat a guy like Alex Pereira, you are straight up going to have to evolve, Yuri Prasca.

And we fucking love you still. Even if he never beats him, I want to be clear about that. I'm not hating on Yuri because we still love the motherfucker, right? We love him to death. Absolutely. Absolutely. he's a savage and one of the most entertaining guys in the sport. But the reality is it, you know, sometimes, and you know this, Matt,

sometimes when you lose to a guy and then you do an immediate rematch, it's almost like a bad idea because you don't really have a chance to really adjust and grow from that loss. Now, credit where credits do, you know, Israel out of Sonia was the exception because he did it and, you know, six months later he knocks out Alex in the rematch. It was incredible. But even leading up to that, he was getting chopped apart. We're like, oh, my God, this is going.

The first round of Israel and Alex. is going like the fifth round did and then Israel got him and you know it was incredible but it just felt like yeri just didn't it's like he didn't he didn't he didn't have time to really adjust and really grow from that fight and Alex to his credit I mean he's Alex he went out there and did exactly what he did to Jamal Hill and exactly what he's done to a lot of other guys when you don't try to take him down and you let him stand in front of you you're going to get fucked up that's 99% of the time with with Alex Prera and boy did he do it I mean it was it was nasty like he just he knew and you knew before he hit that jab at the end and knocked that that left hook jab kind of combination that

that end of the first round then knocked down yerry and pretty much ended the fight let's be honest because you know he was not back when he went on the second round but he just he was feeling it you could tell he was just waiting like you could tell he was just biting his time until he found the opening to put him away and you could have you could have stopped it at the end of the first and I don't think anyone would have been totally shocked because the way he dropped But then, dude, that head kick coming out in the second round, it was just 13 seconds. She just knew it. And he just absolutely just mollywopped him.

Yeah. And it's interesting because Yuri is so athletic. And, you know, I don't know if he works with his coaches or if he kind of does his own thing and they just get him into shape or, you know, or I don't even know who his coaches are, to be honest. But, you know, like you said, there was no evolution. and there was no, like, keep your hands up better, move your feet differently, like block leg kicks. You know, you would think he would have learned that from the Rakeach fight, right? Like, just, I mean, he almost got stopped by Rakech with those leg kicks.

It was very, very close. And I think Rakech probably could have got that done had he just been a little bit more adamant about getting that done with the leg kicks. But, you know, Uri didn't change anything, it seemed like. He was just being himself. Sometimes that's all a fighter can be is themselves. Sometimes they can't get beyond what they are deep inside. Like they might even try different things in training camp.

They might try new coaches or different training partners to mimic guys, whatever. But then when the lights come on, they are who they are. Like all the truth comes out and that's who you are. Yeah. And you can't say enough good things about Alex prayer. I mean, for him to do what he's continued to do. And we all say it. And we're not wrong when we say, like, this guy is really operating with one truly nasty skill set.

Like, I still have no idea. Does he have any real jiu jihitsu? Has he improved his wrestling? I have no clue. I have no idea. Since the Yanbovich fight, which got taken down in the first round and then came back after that, his last three fights with Jamal Hill and two of Yuri Parhashka, he's just gone out there and assassinated these guys on the feet. And for people who say, well, you know, what does it matter? Well, listen, I mean, we still don't know.

I mean, but how remarkable is that this dude is, we know the one thing you have questions about Alex Prayer are his, is his wrestling and his grappling. His last three opponents have not done any of that to him, and he's just fucked him up. And it's just remarkable. Yeah, and you've got to give credit to Alex, too, that, you know, he's been able to keep it in his world.

You know, I mean, he hasn't went up against the John Jones. He hasn't went up against the D.C. or the type of guy that's going to push really hard for a takedown constantly. But I mean, Yuri in the first fight went for a takedown is pretty hard. You know, I mean, he's had, you know, like you said, Yon took him down. Fucking Israel was able to get him down, you know. So it's not like he hasn't seen it, but you got to give credit where credits do. And don't take credit away from Alex for keeping it in his world.

Absolutely. And not, you know, again, not necessarily because of his amazing sprawl and brawl technique or you know this kind of old school stuff we talk about but he's not really giving guys opportunities like yuri wasn't able to get close enough to him for it to even be a thing really other than he did get the underhook the one time or double unders the one time and you know wasn't able to do anything with this you got to credit to alex for that he escaped that position got back to his distance and put it on him i'm a big believer in like i do believe in certain situations mental warfare does work. I know I always bring it up, but I think

Connor and Aldo is a great example of that because when have you ever seen Josie Aldo come out and do that against anybody and then get slept the way he did? But in this case, am I wrong in thinking that we're getting into a little bit of that like Anderson Silva territory with Alex where

guys just come in and they're immediately, I won't say intimidated, but they're immediately like on their back foot a little bit. Like, holy shit, I got to face this guy who's just like the elite of elite striker with You could argue pound for pound maybe the best power in MMA, period. Like, not saying, like, he is, like, he hits harder than, you know, I don't know who in heavyweight would be the guy.

But, like, I'm not saying he hits harder. I'm saying, yeah, like, pound for pound, he hits harder than anybody in the sport. Like, are we getting that era now where, like, guys are not able to fight him appropriately because they're going into the fight thinking, oh, shit. Like, that's how Anderson, I don't, I think a lot of guys fought Anderson saying, they fought Anderson thinking, I'm going to fight Anderson Silva. That's the feather in the cap. It wasn't beating Anderson Silva.

It was I fought Anderson Silva. It feels like we're getting a little bit of that now with Alex. Yeah, it's interesting. You say that. So I have always had the opinion, too, that when you fight Alex, like, he doesn't do things as technical as a lot of guys. In terms of what we know is technique, you know, it's not to take away from his technique at all. But it's his technique. And so, you know, like if you're, like, if you know, like, if you're, you know, like, if you know,

you're fighting GSP, you know, in the stand-up, like, it's all very technical. He's going to throw very good jabs and very good kicks, and it's going to be kind of the way that it's written on paper. Alex doesn't do it that way. So I got to wonder if guys are a little bit lulled in thinking, dude, I'm going to find the opening. Like, he's leaving me opening. It's like his hands aren't uptight. Like, he's not in, you know, crazy strong stance. He's not turning his kicks over. It almost lulls them mentally in. I've always wondered that just kind of theoretically. I don't know if it's true or not. Yeah, I know you may be right. It's a good point. I mean, absolutely. Because when you think,

like, I know you said on the show before, technically speaking, he's not like the greatest technical kickboxer, but sometimes it doesn't matter. You know what I mean? Like sometimes you don't need to be that when you're Alex Pereira. And I think that, I think you got a good point there. Like people think, oh, it's just the same thing of, you know, oh, I can take him down or I can out wrestling because he has no wrestling, no grappling. But then you can't get close enough to do it. Yeah. And you got to be careful with the whole like, you know, technically thing, right? Because it's like, well, what's technical?

Like, if it works, then it's technical. You know what I mean? Yeah, so I'm really careful with that type of wording. But, like I said, it just, from the outside looking in, to me, it doesn't look as good. Like Anderson looked amazing. And he really, you know, he'd lulled guys in and he would do these crazy things, you know, to drop his hands and move his head around and, you know, spin kicks, all these crazy wild things. but technically, like you throw very straight jabs, really good hard kicks,

you know, do a lot of things really, really sharp and technical. But when I say technical, I'm talking about what we know is technical on paper. So I'm not saying Alex isn't technical, but I really wonder if guys are looking at him, you know, when the ref says go and they're looking, seeing his movement, And they're like, dude, there's openings here. I can get in there. And then pop. Nope.

That's all there was. It was nasty. So a big part of the conversation coming out of the fight, Matt, of course, was the whole should Alex go to heavyweight and try to become a three-division champion? Joe Rogan was, you know, busting out of his pants trying to bring that one up. And then Dana mentioned it after the fight. And listen, I'm not apt to sit here and always, you know, I mean, I know Dana is very polarizing. Some people love him.

Some people hate him. I'm kind of indifferent to it. Sometimes I agree with what he says. Sometimes I don't. And when he addressed Alex, talking about heavyweight, I'll be honest. I kind of agree with Dana in the sense of because I've gotten so tired of guys jumping divisions just to become champions like that. Like I know I've said it before and I'll say it again. Like Connor kind of ruined it for us where he won featherweight and then three months later or four months or whatever he said 11.

Well, it ended up being 11 months later because the Dias fights. But he was going to fight Hoffield to say. Daniels three months later, four months later for the lightweight title, when he clearly didn't deserve it or earn it, but, you know, everyone's, you know, he barely was featherweight champion and then they're giving him a title shot. But I, like, am I intrigued to see what Alice could do at heavyweight? Sure. Like, everyone's about John Jones and Aspen all. I'm, of course, I'd be intrigued, but I, listen, like, to me, what Dana said is right and it doesn't happen anymore and it bugs the shit out of me

is that nobody clears out their division anymore. When Israel did it, when Israel went up and tried to become a light heavyweight champion at the time, he had kind of cleared everybody out. Now that changed of course, Alex came in, Dracus came in, guys came in that were not really there at that point. But like you legitimately

have Magamette and Kalliav who is out there as like the real number one contender who is just, you know, seething for a chance to get a title shot. And I think Khalil Roundtree is another guy. You can't deny what he's done lately. I mean, he's nasty striker. We talked about

with Gokon Saki. We talked about that before the fight that we thought Gokan Saki was going to be like the guy and then Khalil Ranshri goes out

there and knocks the living hell out of him. He looked great against Anthony Smith. I know it's unfortunate he didn't get that fight in at UFC 3 or 3

like he was supposed to but I think until you eliminate a couple more guys, I say stick a light heavyweight and it's not because I don't think it can be competitive.

I'm not going to sit here and play predictions although we can talk about that in a minute but just dude clear it. the division like i just i get so tired this jump of division shit it just it ruins it for me because no one defends their title anymore no one sticks around to defense the title like three times

no yeah i totally agree with that but you can't deny how intriguing that is right it is it is that's yeah i mean you i totally agree with you like that's where to me where the more respect is earned but i want to see him fight tom aspenal i want to see him fight tom aspenal i want to see him fight jim John Jones. I want to see him fight. Maybe he's like surreal gone. Like I want to see him a heavy way. I think there's amazing matchups up there for him. So I totally get where you're coming from. I totally, I'm not disagreeing in the slightest, but we can't deny how much we want to see it. Well, it's because Alex has transcended to become a star. And it makes a lot easier when you're a star to kind of call your shot. And to his credit, he has knocked out

two former champions. It's not like he's taking out a couple of bums. He took a got Yeri Perhoshka twice and Jamal Hill who are both former champions. So it's not like his resume is lacking and you couldn't understand why he did it. But I know the odds came out and, you know, he was a pretty heavy, I mean, he was a massive underdog to John Jones and he was a pretty heavy underdog

to Tom Aspenol as well. And I would say, and I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me on this, but I would say it's true. I think he would be a massive underdog to Curtis Blades because Curtis is a big motherfucker and he's a great wrestler. But again, I'm with you. I'm intrigued. I don't like his chances in any of those big heavyweight fights outside of Cyril

Gone, who's a striker, and I think that's one he could absolutely win. But when you look at, you know, Tom Aspinall is a pretty good grappler. John Jones, we know, is an elite grappler. Curtis Blades is an elite grappler, and they're big. They're massive guys. I don't know that he wins a lot of those fights, but would I pay to see him? Absolutely, I would. Right.

Well, he's rightfully an underdog, and that's sort of the, the disparity that he, or the kind of the little box he's stuck in right now is if he goes up to heavyweight, all those guys can and will take him down. Right? Not whether they, you know, again, maybe he's that amazing,

figures out a way to stop that and box everybody up and proves us all wrong, but he's rightfully an underdog for that exact reason. We expect everybody heavyweight take him down. These matchups of light heavyweight, we talk about Cleo Roundtree, you talk about Ancolaev.

We're not expecting these guys to come in and force a takedown. Of course, it's even many of anything can happen. Like, he and Gary took down MVP a bunch of times, you know? So, you know, it's not like it can't happen. But that's where we have an anticipation of these fights taking place. We already know what Alex Pereira can do on the feet. We don't have any questions.

He can knock out any of these guys that stays on the feet. But what can he do against Aspinall, or particularly John Jones? That's the one we all really want to see, right? Because most likely one of them is going to fucking wreck the other one, right? That's kind of the, I don't know, that's kind of how I feel in my head. You know, if John Jones takes him down, he's probably wrecking the fuck out of him. If it stays on the feet, I think Alex is probably wrecking the fuck out of them. And that to me is intriguing.

It is intriguing. And I feel like there's been this weird discourse around John lately because everyone's kind of, everyone's, everyone got built up on the whole Aspenol thing. and John's been adamant about fighting steepe, and I get it. And so people have kind of turned against John for going for that fight, not going for Aspinall. And I've said it many, many times. UFC fucked up by just making that interim title,

and it didn't need to be created. Maybe now, because John's been out for every year, but it certainly did need to be created last November. But I get it. Aspinall is great. I like Aspenol. I think he's a dangerous, nasty fighter. But I also understand John's point of wanting to be the guy to take out,

arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time. And I know Steve has been out forever, and if Steve is coming off a loss, I get all that. But there was just a certain cache that comes along with beating a name like that, like beating Fedor back in the day. Like even though we knew there were points where Fader was no longer the same Fador, but beating Fador still mattered because he's fucking Fador.

I get it. But here's the one thing I will say. And it feels like we've gotten this weird place in a sport now where it's like okay to disrespect John Jones. Like he's not as good. And I'm like, have you seen him fight? Like really? Like I'm not saying that Alex Cron. couldn't beat John Jones. Obviously, if it stays standing, Alex could beat anybody.

But if you're asking to put money down and say, who would I bet on for this fight, I'm putting my car, my house, my possessions on John Jones. Not only because John Jones is an adequate squite striker, he's not great. I don't think even John Jones says he's a great striker. But he's an incredible wrestler. I mean, he's taking down to Daniel Cormier. He's taking on everybody. He needs one takedown, and Alex will be eating elbows until his head's buried into the octagon. And that's not a knock on Alex Perr. I'm just saying like, there's this weird thing now because John's kind of disliked more because the old Steve A thing and everyone's, oh, Tom Aspinall's the real champ, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Let's slow down on burying John Jones and forgetting that he is the greatest fighter in the history of the sport. And until I see him lose, I'm going to favor him to beat everybody. And that includes Alex Pereer. I agree. And hopefully I didn't come across like I was putting down John Jones at all because I just want to see him fight Alex Breyer because I agree with you on that where it you know this sport moves so fast people are forgotten so fast and and the UFC does a great job of hyping up champions and you don't forget you know that belt is just a marker saying that you beat a guy that had it before that doesn't mean you're the best in the world that doesn't mean you're the best in division it means you beat the guy that had the belt before

you had the belt like that's all that it means like I still say even the heavyweight division like John Jones is the best fighter in our division. Tom Aspenall has the belt. That's John Jones is still a better fighter than Tom Aspinall. Whether he wins or not, I don't know, you know, if they do ever fight. But yeah, dude, I'm with you. Like, don't discredit who the fuck John Jones is. Like some, his ground impact, like he said, he took down fucking D.C. Like hard, you know, like worked for it and fucking put him down. Like it wasn't like he caught down. DC off guard and he slipped and fell down. Like he was in deep on a shot. D.C. had

a chance to defend. John picked him up and put him on his ass. Like nobody does that to D.C. Olympic wrestlers didn't do that to D.C. So yeah, do not discount what John Jones can do. And him doing that to Alex Pereira is a very,

very high probability. But I want to see it. Oh yeah. And here's the other thing. Here's the thing. Here's where I'll make my argument, okay, I just said I don't want to see him in heavyweight, but here's the argument where I'll make for the heavyweight. I'm contradicted myself right away. John has said, and I agree, fighting Steepa is a more meaningful fight and a bigger fight than Tom Aspinall. That's not wrong. Tom Aspinall is a good fighter. He is. But he just won a title. And he's still

not, he's well known in Europe. He's well known in England. He's not well known over here. He's not a star. Steepa, I'm not saying Steepa is the biggest star, but Steepa is an established name. And You and I both know, Matt, names still matter. Like, you know, like names still matter in the sport. Whether you denied or not. Steve A is a bigger fight to Tom Aspen. I think we should all, if you're disagree with that, you're lying to yourself because you're ignoring the mass casual audience

that doesn't watch every single show, that doesn't tune in every Saturday night and watch every single prelim. They know the name Stevie Miochage. I would guarantee you there's a lot of casual fans who still don't really know the name of Tom Aspinall. But I bet you'll bet you'll, whole fucking lot of people know who Alex Prairie is. And you tell me that

you tell me that Alex Pereira versus John Jones wouldn't be one of the biggest fights in sport could book right now. Without a doubt, without a doubt. And there's also, when you talk about like John Jones versus Stepe, the fact that they have both taken so much time off because I kind of feel like if John came back

and beat Tom Aspinall, we probably wouldn't even, people wouldn't even be geeking to see him fight Stepe. Right, because when they would end up pumping that fight up and hyping it up, they'd be like, like steep it would be a massive dog at that point because assuming that john came and dominated tom aspinon so he'd be like you know he's been active but since they've both been sitting out and we've been waiting on both of them it leaves a lot more mystery in our minds as to what could happen right who's been training better who stayed healthier who's you know they've both been out for a while so um i don't know why i made that point but that just kind of crossed my mind when you're talking about who's the biggest fight out there and you know and like you said the other biggest fight is Alex Pereira. Yeah, and the narrative, let's be honest, because I think Curtis Blades has a great chance to beat Tom Aspinall in July.

I think Curtis, I've said for years, I thought Curtis Blades was going to be a champion. You and I both know if Curtis Blades beats Tom Aspenol in July and becomes champion, every single person that said Tom Aspenol's best heavyweight is suddenly going to call him a bum. Because what John said about Tom is right, although people don't want to admit it. And that is, he said it basically if I beat this guy, they're going to say he was never that good anyways. Because Tom's not established. He's a very good fighter. I think he's absolutely, I think he's an excellent fighter.

But he just doesn't have the resume yet. You know, beating Sergey Pavlovich is a good win. If he beats Curtis Blades, it's another good win. But he doesn't have a five-year-long tenure being the top guy in the division or top three guy in the division, working his way to champion. That's what John Jones has. John Jones could lose tomorrow, and he would still be considered probably the greatest of all time. at worst. I mean, Anderson's Silva's career ended on like nine losses.

Do we still not think Anderson was one of the greatest of all time? You build that rapport over years, over years of work. And so that's how Steve-Bey did it too. Like, Steve-Bez built that resume of being that guy. Tom's not there yet. And so if Curtis beats Tom,

A, I won't be shocked. And B, I guarantee you, every Tom Aspenol hype train is going to be like, oh, he was never that good to begin with. He was a bum. He was hype, blah, blah, blah. That's the difference. So I understand where John's coming from with this, but now Alex is a different animal because you can't say Alex has not established himself.

He's a two-division champion inside eight or nine fights to the UFC. He's knocked out guys like Yuri Parash, guys like Jamal Hill, guys like Israel out of Sonia. That's a different story because Tom hasn't done that yet. Tom has not run that gambit of heavyweights. Alex has. So if Alex said tomorrow, John Jones said, let's stand. And also, let's be honest, John Jones was a light heavyweight. He's the greatest light heavyweight of all time.

Alex Perez, the new light heavyweight. Just tell me. Just tell me that wouldn't, I mean, that would be a massive fight. That's what I'm saying. It's intriguing. It is very intriguing. And, but I know what I was getting at now. When we talk about John Jones and Steepa waiting it out, you know, it reminded me of Chandler McGregor.

Right. If Chandler had been fighting, let's say, you know, two or three fights, I mean, you could have done five or six fights at this time, right? You know, who was kidding me here? you know and if he did all those fights and was just wrecking people like people wouldn't even care about him fighting Connor McGregor I mean I mean everybody always cares when Connor fights right so you know don't take that the wrong way but we'd be like he's going to fucking destroy him right he just won five fights in a row right but since he's been waiting out it adds a lot of mystery into the the situation and of course it sounds like today Chandler's going to be coming back fighting Islam right Support for this show comes from Chase. If you're a fan of women's sports, you're always looking for ways to get closer to the action. And your Chase card can get you exactly that.

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All you need is Betterment. Go to betterment.com to learn more. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-M-E-N-T dot com. Investing involves risk, performance not guaranteed. So he puts out this tweet, and I'll read you what it's said. And I do, to everyone asking, I do believe there's some legitimacy to this. It says, I've been offered Islam Ocatchew in October. But if Connor McGregor, little pinky toe is ready by September, let's do the sphere.

Biggest sporting event in the history of sport. And then he went on to tweet and said, good old fashioned, passionate American, Missouri wrestling beats Sambo all day. You know, all these different things he's saying, you know, I've been, I've been targeting your ass for eight years. Good old fashioned, passionate in Missouri wrestling beats Dagestanding Sambo every day of the week, blah, blah, blah, and that's kind of where that. And I just saw, I just saw that Porriot chimed in and said to Chandler, he said, choked your ass out and you haven't fought since, which he's not wrong.

But Chandler, so we've had, we might as well just talk about it. Chandler's, you know, we've had this discussion so many times about whether Conner's ever going to fight again. And we still don't know. And Danes over the weekend, I'm not talking about it. Like, I'm not until he's healthy. I'm not going to talk about it. And he's not healthy.

He's still dealing with the broken toe. if you're Michael Chandler and you get offered is the McCachiev in October off a loss to Desta Porier two years ago and you turn that down for the hope of a Connor McGregor fight. Listen, I love Michael Chandler. I do. I like him. I'm known him for many, many years. Great guy.

I talk to him a lot. I really respect him. I think he's a beast. I've always wanted to see him in the UFC and now we're seeing him do the damn thing. Matt, Michael Chandler does not deserve a title shot. No way, shape, or form does he deserve a title shot right now off, two years off, a loss, and Islam Akachev. But if this is real, and you even fathom turning this down for Connor, I understand the money, I get it, but why would you turn this down? Like, am I wrong?

Like, I get it. I understand there's a lot of money involved with Connor, but you're not going to get this opportunity. beat Connor, you probably won't get this opportunity again. Take the Islam Akasha if I do. You get a title. That's going to be a lot of money there too. You're going to get pay-per-view points off that too. Maybe not as much as Connor, but you're going to get a big payday and you get a chance

to fight the freaking world champion. That's beyond me. Why you wouldn't jump on that, take it right now, sign the dotted line today, makes zero sense to me. I can't think of any reason not to do it. I mean, assuming Connor does come back, you know, let's just assume he is going to come back. Do you think that he wouldn't love to fight you for the title? Like, you could absolutely accept that fight for the title after, you know, assuming that you win the title.

And now not always it a Connor McGregor fight, it's a Connor McGregor fight for the title. Does it get any better? I like I just I just I get it like if Connor's the only fight that's out there and you're just abstract you're in this abstract holding pattern waiting for Connor and I said December would be my cutoff like if it doesn't have by December dude you got to move on that you cannot continue to waste you're already 37 or whatever you're continued to waste years your career it just become stupid but now if there's a legitimate offer out there to fight islam Akach of in October not knowing what's going on with Connor dude Take the fight. Like, you still don't know what's going on Connor. Take the fight. Yeah, and let's say worst case scenario, you go out there, Islam destroys you, wrecks you in one round. You think Connor's still not going to want to fight you?

Yeah. You're already coming off a lost. Like, Connor wants a tune-up fight, right? He wants it, or at least, you know, I would never call Chandler a tune-up fight, but, you know, that's what Connor's saying. He's like, this is a fight to get me back. It's a good matchup for me. That's what he's thinking. like whatever Islam does to you isn't going to change Conner's mind on that.

I don't think. I know you talked about this as a fighter, Matt. I know you have a different perspective than maybe Chandler does. And I respect that. But I want your perspective because I know money matters, right? Like you always, like you fought for money. You did. Like you got paid for that.

But you loved fighting. Like you were, that was your thing. You loved fighting. Like when the UFC called you and said, hey, we got to fight for you. Okay. I'm in. You weren't sitting there like contemplating like who is it, what's the, you know, you were just ready to fight. You love that feeling of fighting. And I'm not going to fault anyone in this sport where all fighters are underpaid in some way, shape, or form. I'm never going to fault someone for favoring prize fighting and getting a big payday because Connor McGregor provides that. I understand all that. And let's be honest, Connor McGregor is an easier fight than is a McAchev. It is. I mean, I'm sorry it is. If you disagree with me, then you don't watch the sport. It's an easier fight than Islam Akachev right now. But this is a chance to do what you've always wanted to do.

Chandler's talked for years about being UFC champion. He talked for years about fighting with Kabib. Now that didn't happen, of course. He ends up, you know, Kabib retires and leaves, but now you got his protege. And I think there's some people who would argue that Islam is a more well-rounded version of Kabib, you know, in terms of like his striking things he does a little bit better than Kabib.

It's just I respect the hell out of Michael Chandler, and I get it. But dude, like, if you don't get a signed contract, you can't guarantee it's going to happen because what just happened last weekend. But, dude, you get a chance to fight Islam for the title and you jump the line, you jump over Armin, you jump over Matush Gamrod, you jump over everybody else,

and even Dustipore has already given you shit because he beat you. Take the title shot, man. You know Islam's going to show up. Yeah. If it's a, I mean, I, The only thing I think is maybe Michael Chandler is just kind of just putting it out there for us and, you know, hoping to bait Connor in real quick or something.

And but, you know, this sport moves too quick. I think he's just kind of taking it. It's insane. Like, what if he turns down the, what if Connor does say, okay, I'm good for September, turns down the Islam fight, fights Connor and say he goes out there and starches Connor real quick and easy? Islam may have moved on by then. And again, like beating Connor isn't necessarily going to get you a title shot next. So now, you know, well, you got to go work your way against another couple guys.

You got a big payday. Now you got to go fight another few guys to try to get a title shot. Unless, I don't know, maybe the UFC will promise him a title shot. If he beats Connor, who knows? But it doesn't add up at all to not jump on this opportunity straight away. And maybe I'm betting Chandler's already made up his mind. and he's doing the Islam fight and he's just talking shit to Connor now

or just kind of poking the, you know, poking Connor a little bit, just letting him know. You know, something like that, but it wouldn't make any sense not to do this. Well, also, and I know this is going to sting because, I mean, I think probably Michael Chandler would admit this even like,

he's pretty honest guy. Chandler needs Connor because it's a massive payday and it's a big opportunity to get his name out there and Connor's biggest star in the sport. Connor doesn't need Chandler, though. Conner's made it very clear. He said, like, I'm coming back, Chandler or not.

When he was coming back from the whole Usada thing, he kept hinting, like, maybe Chandler wasn't the guy. And we're all like, oh, my God, he's going to come back and not fight Chandler after all this waiting and blah, blah, blah. Now, it never went away, and this might just be Connor being Connor, but Connor coming back and fighting Porriere,

Connor coming back and fighting Armin, Connor coming back and fighting Olivera, which I think would be huge. like Connor is Connor. Connor's going to be Connor whether he's fighting Chandler, Olivera, Armin, Matush Gamrod, Porre, it's still fucking Connor McGregor, and he knows that. He doesn't need Michael Chandler.

Michael Chandler needs Connor McGregor. But if you're not going to get Connor McGregor, and it's pretty clear he's not coming back or he's not going to be back till who knows when or if ever, then, dude, jump on the, Islam is still a big fight, and it's a title fight. Like, just jump all over that. I think that's a great point.

But the one thing, I think you got wrong is Michael Chandler needed Connor. Now he's got a title shot. Now he doesn't need Connor. Get the fuck a title shot, bro. Fuck Connor. Go. Yeah, you're exactly right.

Like, yeah, you needed Connor to get back in there. Now you don't need Connor. They're offering you a title shot. You don't need Connor anymore. You got what you've wanted this whole time. Like, you got the big, you got the championship fight. You got a chance to get your dream. Now, if your dream is to make maybe a few more bucks,

I mean, I don't know all. the contract details, but like how much money realistically are you going to make versus Connor versus Islam you know, anyway. Maybe it's a few mill, but it's like it's like bro, like what, you can't go make a few mil? You brought this up when we talked a while back about Connor

and you talked about when the whole lawsuit was going on and we saw the figures released from the lawsuit what Connor was actually making. And I'm not saying it was bad money. I'm not saying Connor was making peanuts. But I think it's less than what a lot of people people assumed he was making. It was like $10 million.

The year one just assumed he was going to make like 20 or 30 because of the sales. 10 million. I'm not saying 10 million in a lot of money. It's a fuckload of money. It's a lot more money I've ever made. But if you're going to get a million up front to fight Islam plus pay-per-view points, so maybe another million or two.

And so what, you're leaving $2 million on the table. Now, $2 million is a lot of money. I'm not going to deny that. And as I said, Conner is probably an easier fight than Islam. But $3 million versus $5 million. while it is still a lot of money, I'm not going to deny that. You're not skimping to not put extra cheese on your whopper when you go to the drive-thru. Like, you know, like, you know what I mean?

Like, it's not like you're living on a corner, you know, with pencil-in-a-cup, trying to survive off $3 million versus $5 million. You know, like, I'm just saying, like, it's, and with, and, again, the reality, Matt is something we keep, we keep saying over and over, and I don't mean to hammer the, hammer the head on this thing. We still don't know if Connor's ever going to fight again. Like, we've, everyone's convinced, he's convinced everyone he's coming back. we still don't know.

Even Dana is like, I'm not talking about it until he's healthy and ready. And I still think December is the earliest we're going to see Connor. I think that's the earliest we're going to see Connor. There's still no guarantee. Dude, why would you not take this fight, get a guaranteed $3 million pay? And as you said, even if you lose, you could still probably get Connor. If you lose, you might even have a better shot at Conner. He's like, wow, this guy's really beaten up.

Now I really can knock him out. Dude, take the fight. Toot, take the title fight. Yeah, and then the more we're talking about it. Chandler is going to take that fight. Like I said, I think he was, maybe he was trolling Connor, maybe just, you know, poking, prodding him a little bit or whatever. But, I mean, unless there's some gigantic thing that we're missing here,

you know, he's got to be taking the fight. There's something behind closed door, some secrets we don't know about or something. Yeah, he's got to be going this route, which, you know, isn't, honestly, isn't a terrible matchup either. I mean, you know, I think there's worse matchups out there for Michael Chandler. I think the Islam fight is it is at least an interesting matchup. I think Islam's going to be a heavy favorite, rightfully so. But it does make for an interesting matchup.

And I'm not sure if we've seen Islam get pushed the way that Michael Chandler's going to at least try to push him. You know, Islam might just get to take down and dominate. You know, I would fear if Islam is able to control. on top at all. But if you're Michael Chandler, like, you probably got one of the better, you know, on paper, you got one of the better

matchups out there against Islam. Well, I said this for years when Chandler was in Bellator, and the reason I always said I wanted to see him if he could be was because he actually does have really good wrestling. And he actually uses his wrestling. Now, while we all know Michael Chandler likes to go out there and bang it out and have these crazy wars, like remember what he did to Dustin in that second round?

He took Dustin down and beat him up on the ground. Now, again, Dustin came back and beat him in the third round. But Chandler has wrestling, and he actually uses it. Unlike Justin Gachy, who's just, he's like allergic to his own wrestling, Chandler actually does wrestle. So, like, that's a weapon that Islam hasn't really had to defend against the whole lot. I think it would have been interesting with Armand. I think Armand's probably more on the peak right now.

But for whatever reason, it doesn't seem that maybe Armand's ready or not going to get the shot. I don't know what the deal is why Armand's not getting it. But, dude, run. just you if the contract's in your inbox right now sign and send it back immediately because you may not get this opportunity again and and as i agree with you matt you could get connor again you absolutely especially if you win oh my god connor would jump at the chance to fight you for a title yeah like i said i really think he's down for the the fight and if it's a real thing i don't know why it wouldn't be a real thing you know if it's a real

thing, then that fight's going to happen, he's going to take it, and we'll see what happens. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, listen, I'm not saying he deserves it, but you know my feeling on the word deserves, Matt. Strike every mere vocabulary in the sport, because that shit don't matter. You know, Hansa Chimae is the top 15 ranked middleweight right now, and he's beaten no ranked middleweight, and his last one was over a welter way. So don't tell me he deserves ever matters in this fucking sport.

Yeah, the shit. Real quick, before we get out of here, we kind of bounce around as we went to Chandler-Connor, which we're going to get to anyways, but I did want to mention this because I talked to him today, Dan Igay stepping in to fight Diego Lopez, which was a crazy, actually had to be a crazy good fight,

really good fight. You tweeted, like you said, like, I love this. Like, let's just have more cards where we just show up and fight and show up the day of the fight. But dude, you've been around the sport. I've been around the sport.

I talked to Dan today, and I already liked Dan. I've known Dan for many years. Incredibly good, dude. Like, you'll never hear anyone say a bad word about Dan Egan. Like, one of the nicest, hardest working guys in the sport.

I don't care how much they paid him. I don't care he gets a new contract, which he did, he told me he got a new contract. I don't care what perks you get. Dude, I don't care who you are. You step the fuck up and fight a guy on three fucking hours notice on a pay-per-view, and you're not fighting some bum. You're fighting a legitimately dangerous guy like Diego Lopez.

Dude, you got to fucking balls the size of fucking, like wrecking balls, dude. It's insane to take that. Like, insane. Yeah, I mean, fighters fight, you know, I'm not going to discredit I gay at all. I freaking love the guy, love what he did. You know, I think there's a lot of guys that would do it, though. You know, I don't, I think, you know, there's a lot of real fighters out there.

And I love that and respect that about Ege, like he's a real fucking fighter. And he just proved that. And I don't know if you see my other tweet, I thought he had a draw with him. I thought the first round was a draw. I don't know how you pick a winner in that first round. I was surprised that all three picked Lopez because nothing really significant happened. I don't think Lopez did anything to earn the round.

But I've been a proponent of 10-10 rounds, more 10-10 rounds for a very long time. And that was, unless I just wasn't paying attention or something, like that was about as close to a 10-10 round as you could get. I mean, nobody really did much of anything. I think the only thing, that Dan could really regret from that fight. He's in the third round. He hurt Diego on the feet,

and then he went to the ground with him. And I think if he would have kept it standing, he potentially could have gotten the knockout. That's the only thing I would say, because he had a hurt on the feet. He had him hurt on the feet. He definitely had him hurt on the feet, and he got to take down. He did land some nasty ground and pound, too, though. He did land some elbows. He had some pretty nasty ground and pound. But I think that's, but again, I said this to Dan to Dan, I'll say

right now, dude, you may have lost the fight on the scorecards, but you're not, there's no loss here, dude. You took a fight on three hours notice against the guy who is up and coming, a I mean, he went out there and knocked out Sadie Kusuf in a minute at UFC 300. Diego Lopez is fucking good. And you went out there and gave him his hardest fight since he debuted against Moussar, Evloev, and you beat him in the third round.

And as you said, could have been a draw. Dude, that's fucking insane, dude. Great. It could have been a draw. And I'll just put this out there. And just so I hear all the fucking haters online. If you look at the way that they score a lot of rounds, You could almost give the second round to Ege too.

He did more damage. Lopez had the positional control, had his back for a long time, but Ege did way more damage. He hit him way more. Even when he had his back, he hit him more. And I've seen these judges rip people off many times with the claim being that they did more damage, and that's what they score on.

Ege did more fucking damage. So, you know, I mean, I would have scored the round for Lopez too, but, and you could also, come really close to saying that was a 10-8 round in the third. Yeah, I mean, he did a lot of damage in that third round, for sure. He did a lot of damage, and Lopez didn't really accomplish anything. I mean, he was getting, he was close to being finished. And Lopez didn't really do much of anything.

So, so anyway, what I'm getting at, I'm sorry, you know, when we talk about Dan Igay as a warrior and as a fighter taking on a few hours notice, which, again, I think a lot of fighters would do. I respect all of that. But what I respect more is, dude, he went out there and arguably beat or at least went to a draw with an up-and-comer

you know, that's been fucking wrecking people. Yeah. It's pretty fucking impressive. You know, the fact that he took the fight, again, a lot of guys would do that. Like, we all love fighting. And there's some advantages to it too, right?

you don't get the nerves. You got to sleep the night before. You didn't even think you were fighting the night before. You know, it all happened so quick. You just go in, you go on autopilot. There's a lot of advantages to that. But obviously, way more cons to it. I think there's more cons than advantage.

You didn't have cut any weight or anything. But the fact that he put on that good performance is what really impressed me. And we also, let's be honest, Matt, we also get him credit to Diego Lopez because he went through a fucking hell of a week to go from, he was at 146 pounds, gets the call. Brian Ortega can't make weight. You've already cut the weight. You've already done your job. He said at 1130, he was 146. So you get a call five hours later.

He ain't making the weight. So now you have to put weight back on. Then you get a call, Ortega's out. Then you get a call, Dan Ege's in. Then you get a call saying it's going to be at 165 pounds. I mean, dude, he could have easily just said, I'm out of here. Like, fuck this. Would anyone have blamed him after all the, like, you know, and then for him to take the fight,

and then comes in and Dan Igay fights him like a savage for three rounds, dude, that's a massive risk to take, and he took it. I mean, again, I think both guys just deserve a ton of credit because I defended when, like, when John Jones, when he lost Dan Henderson, and everyone gave him shit for not fighting Shell Sondon on short notice, and Dana still brings that up to this day, I don't fault you, dude. If you're a professional sport and you're a professional athlete and you are a world champion and you're preparing for a fighter and then a week out, you lose your opponent. They're like, I'm just going to get mad at you for another. I've said that many times and you know I've said that, Matt. I'll give you credit for taking short notice fights, but I'm never going to discredit you for saying, nah, I'm not ready or I don't feel confident taking this fight. Because I don't want guys stepping in there. I need a paycheck.

I'm just going to get my ass kick for three rounds and take a paycheck. That's a risk. They both took risks. And boy, did it pay off because it was a great fight. And, dude, there's no loser in that fight. And I just got to add one thing, you know, just to kind of poke at you, little damn. Tell me that Brian Ortega would not have won that fight. I don't know, man.

If Brian Ortega stepped in there as bad as he looked at the way ends, I don't know if he would have won that fight or not. He looked pretty right. But an in-shape, you know, prepared Brian Ortega. I mean, hypothetically, yeah, because I think Brian, you know, look better against Jayaeer than Diego looked on Saturday night. But also to Diego's credit, you know, Diego is fighting. I mean, you're fighting a shorter, stockier, heavy-handed Dan Igay versus a tall, long, jiu-jitsu fighter. Brian Ortega, it's a totally different fight. Yeah, I mean, I'm not.

Maybe I don't got one up on you there, but I was trying to work it in. No, you're not, you're not wrong. I mean, you know, Ortega, but again, but if it's based on what we saw a lot, last week, I don't know that it would have gone much better for Brian Ortega's. He looked terrible. Like, he did not look like, yeah. He did not look like he needed. Yeah, he didn't have a good week. But again, he's not, that's not the normal

Ortega. So I'm talking about regular, everyday Brian Ortega. I didn't see anything out of Lopez that would have convinced me he was beating Brian Ortega yesterday. Well, also and to give Diego and Brian credit, and this is why I'm not, like, I'm not flipping out about Brian Ortega the way I

flipped out about Kelvin Gaslam missing weight. Both Diego and Brian Ortega took this fight 15 days ago. Like they just got put on here when Connor fell out. So it wasn't like they were already on the car for three months training. Like they both took a short notice. I just wish Brian had said up front like, let's just do this a lightweight and not even fucked around with trying to get down to featherweight because it was going to be a bad idea regardless.

But I'm not pissed at Brian Ortega the way I was at Gaston because Gaslum had a full training camp, months of training camp showed up. It's like, yeah, I just can't make. Didn't Ortega get sick? Would I hear wrong? He got a fever. He had like 103 degree fever or something. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to cut weight when you got 103 degree fever. I did it with 101 degree fever once and it's the most miserable thing I ever did. Yeah. So which fight was that when you did that? Johnny Hendricks. Oh, boy.

That's rough going into a fight like that. That's also where you had the concussion, isn't it? Yeah. God damn. That's like the worst fucking case scenario of everything. You know, it is what it is. I don't really like talking about it because then it starts sound like excuses. But that's why I just mentioned it happened.

I wasn't mentioning which fight you asked me. So I don't want to hear all these people like, you fucking make your excuses, you dumb ass. Here's what I say about that, though. I was at that fight. You remember that. I've known you for a lot of years. Dude, you pay a fucking good poker face because I would have never known you had a

fucking 101 degree fever. So, like, you definitely didn't show the world you were fucking feeling and I'll tell you that much for damn sure. I mean, I, you know, I was able to, you know, still focus and, you know, you just block it out of your mind, you know, and just carry the load, right? You just go. You're not there to fucking pout or make complaints or anything like that. You got to, you know, to me, what was going through my mind was, dude,

so there was a lot more in that camp that went wrong also. So to me, all it was was like more obstacles, you know, I was like, dude, I'm still going to go win this fight. And all these obstacles are just going to make the story even better. Now I go in there and I got my ass kicked and I didn't work out that way. But they're not excuses. You know, I could have easily pulled out. I had more than enough reason to pull out more than once.

But, you know, that's, I believe, a true warrior's mind is, look, this obstacle, that's just going to make a better story when I whip this guy's ass. Yeah, I'm not knocking Johnny Henders, by the way. I'm not saying this to that, but, like, I don't really feel like get your ass kick. You lost a fight, but it was, you know, you got wrestled. I mean, he out-restled me with his, you know, pre-usada workouts and shit, you know, but. But going back to Ortega, like I said, I'm really not holding it against him. Like, I kind of wish he had never said featherweight.

I wish you had just said up frontly, let's do a lightweight fight. But he took the final 15 days notice, same as Diego. Like, neither one of them were really ready for that fight, like truly ready for that fight. Gasselm's a different story. That's why, like, I like Calvin Gasselman. He's a good dude. I actually really like Kelvin a lot, but that's fucked up. When you go through a whole training camp, just show up, yeah, I can't make one 70-year

opponent's already gone through that. That's worse. But, yeah, I'm not really faulting Ortega, dude. Like, you know, don't, I mean, again, I wish he hadn't taken the fight of featherway, but I'm sure he didn't predict he was going to get a fucking 103 degree fever during fight week either. So. Right.

Yeah, it is what it is. But either way, I said, respect to Dan Igay. And again, I'm going to say it. I almost want to go back and watch it. I'd never go back and rewatch fights. But that was one of them. I kind of want to go back and rewatch. Like, did I miss something at first round?

Because I thought it was a 10-10 round. And I think you kind of have to give Lopez the second round. I could see where some of these dumb-ass judges would give it to Ege because he did land more damage. Obviously, the third round was Ege, maybe a 10-8 round. So you've got to respect that, too. I mean, he put on an absolute hell of a fight. Yeah, dude, credit to credit. And I agree.

I'm sure, like, if the opportunity is there's, there are definitely fighters who would do it. It's just never been done. So it's kind of cool that, like, he got the chance to do it, you know. And which I'll add also, I think they should rematch. Like, they should absolutely, they should set up. Now they both get a training camp for the fight, rematch. See what happens. Yeah.

I mean, Dan, I talked to Dan today. He saw Diego at the PI, tons of respect. And I think they're going to kind of share that moment forever because it's really cool. but he wants to fight it to sphere in September. Diego wants to fight it to sphere in September. I don't think it's a bad idea to run it back. Like, give him a full camp, do it again. Maybe we get, you know, maybe, maybe Diego wins one sidelier.

Maybe Dan knocks him out. But I'm not opposed to that idea. I think it'd be kind of fun. Like, how cool would that be? I think it's fair to Dan to do that. I mean, he came in on the short notice like that. He had another fight. Who was he supposed to fight?

Chepe Mariscal on July 20th. Yeah. Which, boy, that would be a fucking war. I used to train a Chepa, bro. I love Chepa. He's an amazing fighter, man. And one of the most savage human beings I've ever met, and I've met a lot of savage human beings.

And he's definitely, like, one of them at the top of the list. I knew he was going to be in the UFC. I think it was about 2016 or 17 when I met him. So that's been a while now, eight years. So that would be a hell of a fight, too. But I hope they get Chepa somebody else. And, dude, give Dan his rematch. he earned it.

Yeah, you make a great impression on people. It's funny before we get out of here. I interviewed Cody Brundage. He fights next week in Denver against Abdul Razak Al-Hassan, which is a really fun fight. And I mentioned you in Paso. I brought it up somehow. And he's like, oh, yeah, I know, Matt. He used to come out here and train in Colorado.

We love Matt. Matt's great because I guess, you know, you occasionally cross-trained with some of those guys. And Cody just glow. As soon as I miss your name, he like glowed up. And he's like, I love Matt Browns. All those Denver guys, like, you cross-train. They loved you out there, man. He's like, oh, I love Matt.

He used to come out here and train. He's the best. That's awesome. That was a great time out there, man. A great group of guys. Mark Montoy has built a hell of a gym out there. Hell of a crew. Love those guys.

Mark's one of those guys who kind of like, like, I praise Eric Nixick constantly because he's fucking great at his job and he builds a relationship with his fighters. But like Eric's out in there. Like, I just texted with Eric today. Eric just started his own podcast. Like Eric's very talkative. He's out there in the public eye. well-spoken, great cornerman, great coach.

One of the best of the business. Mark Montoya is that, but he just doesn't say anything. Like, he's very quiet, soft-spoken, doesn't really do media. But he's a hell of a fucking coach, man. Like, you talk to anyone at Trayvon Mark Montoya, they praise Mark Montoya. He's just not out there doing interviews. And that's cool. Like, I'm not, you know, that's cool if you don't want to do that.

I'm totally fine with that. But he's one of those kind of, like, under-praised guys. Like, you don't really hear him a lot, so you don't really think about it. You don't hear him, like, Mike Brown from American Top Team gets a lot of credit, and rightfully so. Eric Nixick, obviously, and rightfully so. But he's kind of a guy who just kind of like stays in the shadows and just does his work. And he's a fucking great coach.

Yeah, he's built a great team out there, man. Yeah. Yeah. It's been an awesome, awesome time training out there. Yeah, dude, every time I talk to someone from Denver, I just mention your name. Like, all we fucking love Matt Brown. He was great. That's awesome.

I appreciate it. Make that good impression on people. Yeah, that's what's up. All right, folks. that's our show for this week. We'll be back next week. We get an off week this week. I know we didn't get to break down

Mazadol-Diaz boxing. I know you're pretty broken heart about that, man. I know that's the... Right next to Crawford Spence, that was the boxing match you were most looking forward to this over the past couple years. Probably more than Ousick Furi, right?

You're more excited about Madsidol Dias. Yeah. So sorry we didn't get to break that one down. But that's this weekend. And then next week we go into UFC Denver, which is Rosnamu Yunus and Tracy Cortez, a couple other fights in that car,

but I'm sure, hopefully by then we'll get some clarity to this whole Chandler thing and maybe they will book Alex Pereira and John Jones you never know Matt what else where can people support you where people want to want to check out what you got going on because you're always a very very busy man yeah I am the immortal on Twitter and Instagram

the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook check out at try underscore create creatine gummies they're fucking amazing everybody should be taking creatine by the way especially Joe Biden and And what else? Redwood Outdoors at Redwood Outdoors CO.

Thank you for the sauna and cold plunge that I'd be hitting every morning. And of course, you got to check out my own coffee at the Immortal Coffee, the No Crash Coffee. Let's fucking go. I talked to you about your ice bath during the winter when it was like fucking like 12 degrees. And you were telling me how it was like warmer in the ice bath than it was outside. How is it? Because it's been fucking sweltering here in Ohio

these past couple weeks. How is it getting that ice bath when it's like 95 with 100% humidity? It's interesting actually because like your head is still frying hot but your body's freezing cold

and it's kind of a weird feeling you don't know and I like put my head under but I had an ear infection what a month or two ago I think I missed a podcast or two because of that that ear infection

and so I try not to dip my head under too much now because you don't have to dip my head forward right so like the water is going to go straight in the earlobe if that makes any sense yeah um yeah so it's really awkward when you're you feel like you're sweating up here and you're fucking 30 degrees down here yeah that's a weird yeah it's been so hot i was wondering about that like how that feels so um all right folks that is our podcast we'll be back next week obviously check us on all your favorite podcast platforms apple podcast Spotify and, of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon.

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