MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Defends Ronda Rousey Trashing the UFC, Khamzat Chimaev vs. Sean Strickland and More

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the news that Khamzat Chimaev is facing Sean Strickland in the UFC 328 main event plus we discuss Ronda Rousey’s sudden disdain towards the UFC and if she’s actually being sincere with her criticism plus much more … Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale, it's time to think outside rows and columns. MongoDB is the database built for developers by developers. It's acid-compliant, enterprise-ready, and fluent with AI. That's why so many of the Fortune 500 trust MongoDB with their most critical workloads. And the best part is developers swear by it, literally. We can't use the actual words they said in this ad, so let's just call it a really great database.

Ready to think outside rows and columns, start building faster at MongoDB.com slash build. Support for the show comes from BMC. Before you trust AI to make your business decisions, before you can reliably scale automation across every workflow, before all your data pipelines are connected with intelligence, your business faces some complex challenges ahead. Namely, tackling things like orchestration as a competitive advantage, unifying your modern and legacy systems, or transforming your mainframe. Before you take them on, make sure you do one thing. BMC first.

BMC is the automation engine for the AI era. Over the years, they've helped customers worldwide run and modernize their businesses by automating, managing, and optimizing complex IT environments. They've partnered with 80% of the Forbes Global 100. Before automation, before scale, before transformation, before you begin, BMC first. What can you do when you do

you partner with BMC. Get started today. Learn more at bmc.com. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the Fire v. the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown and Matt. We are coming off a UFC on Vegas

114 event this weekend. We're rolling into UFC London this weekend. We got some big announcements this week. We had a Rhonda Rousey and Gina Carano press conference. So we actually have a few things to talk about today. We've got to go in ebbs and flows on the show when there's stuff going on.

Unfortunately, Probably not going to be talking a lot about the fights last night, right? Well, I do want to give some flowers to Kevin Vichayos. I'm butchering his name. I don't want to ruin it. But, man, you go out there and put it on Josh Emmett the way he did. I know Josh is 41 and maybe he's not the same duty he was five years ago, but that's still a quality win to go out there and put him away in the first round the way he did.

Man, did you watch the entire car? Did you watch part of the car? What did you watch last night? I wasn't able to watch it. Well, if you get a chance, like, this was the best UFC card of the year so far. Literally. So I'm really fun fights, like good, you know, good finishes. The fight, there was a fight between this kid named Marwan, Rahiki, and Harry Hardwick.

Holy crap, man. They beat the shit out of each other. Harry Harwick snapped his jaw and had to, had to do this. Coaches ended the fight between the second and their rounds. But like, like, for a card that I'll be honest, I wasn't like super jazzed about going in, there was actually some really good fights. So, yeah. A lot of times, that's the best cards, man, the ones you don't, you know, kind of the sleepers,

you know, that we don't really, doesn't have all the big. names and all the hype and promotion like the Holloway Olivera you know like sometimes you know it's the hungry kids that are trying to make their name yeah 100% it was a really really good show and yeah it was overall some really really good fights for you know again like you never know and i don't agree with dana's philosophy of like well if you don't like it don't watch it like i think name value and and mat you know ranked fighters things like that still matter but yeah it was a good card is a fun card. He has been good performances and kind of a new star is born in Kevin Bahayah.

So I think it's going to be interesting to see where he goes in Fedway. I know he called for Yair Rodriguez, maybe Noce, UFC. I think that makes a lot of sense. He's from Argentina. Yire's obviously a very popular fighter in Mexico. Popular fighter in generally is from Mexico. So, yeah, good overall car. But then this weekend, I actually really like the card this weekend, the London card.

I mean, you know, we've been most our stance for a long time. We've been kind of pushing that guy in La Roe Murphy coming off that knockout over Aaron Pico. he's kind of in a good position here. I think what drives everyone nuts is, like, I've talked to Moussar, and I've heard Laron talk about this publicly. Like, still no guarantees. Like, the U.C. is not saying the winner of this is going to get a title shot. I wonder, Matt, I'm curious.

And I mean, like, I know you've had this conversation before. Like, U.S. doesn't, quote, unquote, root for guys. Like, I don't think they really care at the end of day. Like, if somebody loses, they'll just move on and print it with the next guy. But I wonder if by telling Moussar and Lorone, there's no guarantees. And maybe that's not like a little, like, cattle prod to say, hey, you need to go out and show us something. Like, just winning is not enough.

You can't go out there and just win a boring 48-47 decision. Like, you've got to do something special, and we're going to give you a title shot. And while I disagree with that notion, because I think either one of these guys should have been fighting Volk back in February instead of Diego Lopez. In a weird way, I was like, maybe that's the motivation. They're like, go out and show us something.

That's why they're not guaranteeing a title shot. Yeah, I mean, look, if Lerow Murphy does like he did Topico, I mean, I think he probably does get a title shot, most are on the other hand his most highest percentage chance of winning matchup wise is to go out and hold learone down for three rounds and that's what i anticipate him probably doing and this fight probably going you know unless lee run pulls out a pico style fight um i think maybe that's kind of what they're getting at where it's not a guarantee title shot because they know that this is very high possibility that that's what

Mosaar is going to go out there and do. He's going to go out and put it on Lee Rhone on the ground for three rounds. And, you know, the chances of a finish are, I mean, these are two guys that are not known for finishes that are not known for exciting fights. Yeah, so to hear the UFC say that to them, too, does not surprise me one bit. I think if you're Mosaar, you know, he had a fight with Al Jemaine Sterling was a lot. lot of fun. Like, that was a good fight. And I know Al Jamein's an incredible grappler, so it helped them, you know, helped him. But if Mousar can have that kind of fight, or even if he just

goes out there and has like an old school, you know, Kabim-style fight where he just punishes the guy, even if he doesn't finish him, like, just goes out and a beast of hell him on the ground, or, you know, goes for submissions, like, really gets aggressive in that part of it's not just holding him down and controlling him on the ground. I think that's a good enough statement. Like, you just got to show that you're willing to take those risks. You're willing to go for the finish. You're not going to get it. I mean, you know, Charles Oliva didn't get the finish over Max Holloway, but no one doubted his dominance in that fight.

Now, you could argue the last couple rounds. Maybe he didn't go for as much as he could have, maybe, but whatever. But I think if he could, if Moser can go out there and have that kind of performance where he just goes out there and just malls the guy and beats him up and, you know, bust him up and goes through submissions, even if he doesn't get it, I think it's better than, like, like, I said, winning a 48, 47 decision where it's like he has 28 minutes of controls or 25 minutes of control time, what a ridiculous number it's going to be.

Like, you know, go out there and go for finishes. If he does that, I think it's enough because I feel like at this point, like, the fans would revolt because, like, but the reality is, like, Volk fought in February, and we got Steve Garcia fighting Diego Lopez at the White House, Diego is not going to get another title shot right away. But if Steve Garcia goes out there and knocks out Diego Lopez, which I think could happen, I don't think there's, I don't think it's too crazy to think that Steve Garcia jumps to line and gets a title shot coming off the White House because that's going to be such a public. It's such a huge card. He's on a run. I mean, he's like seven fights in a row with six knockouts. It's not like he doesn't deserve the opportunity, but if he can go out there and wipe out Diego Lopez,

just like I think John Silva, if he had wiped out Diego Lopez, I think he would have got a title shot. That's where Mousar and Laron have to worry. They could go out there and have a great fight, but if Steve goes out there and knocks out Diego, which, like I said, he's an underdog, but could happen.

We might be looking at Steve Garcia in Volk later this year. Yeah, I mean, how many wins is Mofzar on now? 11, 12? Yeah, 10 or 11 in a row, like all in the UFC, which is ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, It's crazy. And like, I mean, we just got to know, like, that's, that's what the UFC is, right? It's not a meritocracy anymore, you know, I don't know if it ever really was.

But, you know, I think there was a time when it was more of a meritocracy where guys, you know, but it, you know, it depends on the person too, right? I mean, like, it was insane to me remembering like Tony Ferguson's run. Like, I think he had, he won 11 fights before he got title shot. It's kind of always been that way. but, you know, I mean, it's just, I wish there was something like, like just something rules set in stone. Even if they, you know, if they're like, look, okay, after 10 fights,

like, okay, you will get a title shot. And maybe on the ninth fight, they put you against, you know, the worst matchup you could possibly have or the number one gets in or whatever. And say, okay, at least there's like a light at the end of the tunnel. Like, Mosar is one of those guys I could, it's crazy to think, but I could see him winning like 15 fights and then being like, yo, bro, or Armin, the same thing. You know, like, they win like 15 fights and they're like, yo, you're just not marketable, buddy.

You know, you just keep fighting and, you know. It also depends on the situation and who we're talking about because, like, when Diego Lopez got the title shot, like, everyone's like, what are you doing? Like, he just fought and lost to Volk like six months ago. Yeah. And you do have Mose Hart-Leyron Leon. But then this last week, they announced UFC 328. in Newark, Hamzot and Sean Strickland,

everyone's like, oh, what a great fight. They've got to have extra security. They're going to get into like a brawl. It's going to be crazy. The press conference is going to be awesome. I heard like two people being like, what about Nazaredea Imov? I heard like two people because Sean is a very magnetic personality,

very popular, you know, and draws a crowd. I didn't see nearly as many people upset about that one, even though in reality, Imavov, quote unquote, deserved it. And he beat Adasani. He's on a good win streak, five or six fights, whatever it is. But I didn't hear people crying. for Imavov the way they were crying for Mousar and Lorone because Diego Lopez

didn't really make sense at the time. But Sean Strickland, he did just put away Fluffy Hernandez. It was a good fight, good performance, and he's very popular. People like Sean Strickland or love to hate Sean Strickland, which are way it goes. I didn't hear nearly as many people being like, oh, no, you know, Imavov's getting

screwed. There were a few, but like not nearly as loud because everyone's like, oh, this is going to be good. This is going to be good. So that's the reality. And to be fair, I do think there's a little bit of a difference when you're talking about a former champion too right like someone who's already been there and and you know certainly he has the name value and and we know that i mean they said already those press conferences lord knows what these are going to be like man i mean this could go a lot

of different ways because you know homzat's not one to sit there and put up with bullshit either and you know sean strickland is going to be giving him some bullshit so it's going to be uh man that that's going to be a trip. And you know, that's exactly why I did it. But again, to be fair, I mean, he beat Fluffy, which was an impressive win and beat him in an impressive fashion. And he's a former champion. So I think you can

give a little more leeway when they're a former champion. And he does have a win over M-Evob. Granted, it was on short notice and it was a light heavyweight. But he does have a win over M-Avob. Grant, like I said, a couple years ago, but you can kind of throw that in as like a little sweetener to say, oh, but he has a, you know, and the reality is timing is everything because

M-EVov knocks out of Sonia, which was an incredible knockout. If whoever, I think it was Drichus at that point, if Dracus was ready to fight within like three or four months, they just booked that and go forward with it. And then it makes sense because Imov was writing a high because he just knocked out a former champion. But it didn't happen. I think at that point it was still the Drichis and Sean Strickland fight.

So Imov had to go fight Kyobahogh. And it was a boring fight. It wasn't a good fight. And people were just like, oh, yeah, he won. And it became forgettable. Timings everything. Sean goes out there. and just absolutely puts it on Fluffy.

And Fluffy looked great up to that point. Like, he looked incredible. And Strickland just put it on it and knocked him out. Wasn't like a dominated decision. Like put him away inside three rounds, which is kind of like the criticism of Sean Strickland. He likes to talk about him. I'm going to go to war and all this stuff.

And he goes out there and has a decision. But he won. He's on top of the world. And then you got Hamzaid who's ready to come back. It's all about timing, too. Like I understand. Like there is some frustration there. I get it for Mava.

But had he gotten it after Adasanya would have made sense. but then having that Cayao fight, it was like, eh, all right, whatever. And then Sean goes out there, wins, and boom, they need a May pay-per-viewer. They need a big event in May. Strickland and Hamza, like it or not, is a much bigger fight.

It just is. Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, speaking on the timing being everything, I mean, even the time that he beat Israel and Asana, it wasn't, you know, the time where everybody was like, holy shit, Israel lost, you know, like, Sean Strickland already did that. You know, where I had the holy shit moment,

you know, when before that Israel was, you know, I'm not going to say invincible. You know, I think we all knew that he had some holes here and there, but we didn't think he had the holes that Sean Strickland showed, right? Yeah. And, you know, but he just seemed more beatable after that. And Imovov beat him after that, right? So, you know, it didn't quite carry the same meaning as it did before either.

So, Emavov, you know, he's one of those guys, like you said, timing is everything. And he's just kind of been in that situation where things haven't, his timing just hasn't worked out perfectly. I am, you know, it's kind of unfortunate, but, you know, I'm not going to hate on them given Sean Strickland this title shot. I mean, I don't think that's a bad call at all. And, you know, I think he gives Hamzad a better fight than Mavov, to be honest, too. I mean, I think it's a better matchup and certainly a better press conference because

Lord knows, again, what, I mean, do they even want to do this press conference? Like, this might be the most dangerous press conference. conference since Connor McGregor. Yeah, UFC, they're doing the seminars with FBI agents. They may want to have the FBI agents on the stage. Yeah, and I agree, you took the words right out of my mouth. I'm not knocking him involved. I think he's an incredible

fighter, but honestly, I think Strickland has a better chance, even though I think Hamzot's going to be favored, and you know, right now you're forced to be to pick, I'd probably pick Hamzot. But I think Strickland does present enough trouble in terms as volume. They have trained together, so that can maybe, you know, just click a little

bit in the back of Hamzot's head, like maybe I couldn't take him down as easily. And also, Strickland is a master of mental warfare. Maybe he pisses off Chamaia. Because remember, Chimaya went out there and did knock out people. Like, he knocked out Gerald Mirchard. Like, he's gone out and had that crazy battle with Gilbert Burns. Maybe he tried, he's like, I want to knock this guy's head off and he plays into Strickland's game. So I think Strickland's got a better chance to win. I'm not saying he's going, I'm not saying I'm going to pick him. I'm not saying he's going to do it. But I'm saying, like, I think he's got a better shot of beating Hamza than Imavov. Like, I would have a hard time seeing Mavov.

finding enough to do over five rounds or finishing, which is not really his, he's not known for big finishes. I guess he beat Adasania, but like that's not his, that's kind of like the Leroux Murphy thing. It's like, that's not what he's known for.

He had a great way of Rpeka, but that's not what he's known for. But Strickland, I think, has a chance. Now I'm not saying it's a great chance, but I think he has a better chance. And dude, mental warfare at work, some guys just go like,

I still to this day, think Conne McGregor beat Jose Aldo. He knocked him out clean, but I think he was so deep in Aldo's, head out as like, I want to kill this guy. I want to kill this guy. And he comes out there flying and Connor hits him, boom, over. I'm not saying Strickland's going to do that to Homzaa, but I guarantee he's going to try to piss off Hamzai that bad. And I do think Hamzot is probably smarter than that. I mean, him and Dracus went at it really hard too, right? And we

thought that Hamzat might do that that night. And he's like, no, I'm going to make sure that I win this fight. And I'm going to hold you to it. It's just a matter of, I think the biggest question is like can Hamzaa hold down Sean Strickland the way that he held down Dracus and you know anybody else practically that he's wanted to and you know if it turns into a firefight the one thing that Hamzai has going for him is that Sean Shun is not generally a finisher I mean he obviously he finished his last fight with Fluffy and he has that in him to do it but it's not what he's known for you know and it's not like a huge risk if he do stay on the feet with him for the most part I mean again he has it in him but you know if you're game planning you're like okay most of the time

he's going to sit there and jab you and talk shit to you while he's jabbing you um so you know the question is can homzat hold him down for five rounds yeah and i don't know that that's going to be so easy you know but and umzat tends to make it look real easy so it's a it's a tough one of call hamzat hamzad did look a little like he was fading a little bit and that late in the fight with Drickus, you know what I mean. And that was, I don't, I think he had, like, it seemed like he had very little resistance in his first couple rounds. But, you know, Strickland is a gamer, Strickland is a cardio guy.

You know, and so, like, yeah, I think it's a fun fight. And I said, as I saw this come. I mean, I heard rumors that it was happening, but I was like, yeah, like, I get it. Like, this is, and this isn't even one where I'm like, you know, like, I felt legitimately bad for Lorone and Mosar because Diego Lopez. I'm like, nothing against Diego Lopez. but I'm like, why are we doing this again? Like, we just saw it like six months ago or whatever.

To their, like to their credit. It sucks too for Diego too, right? It puts him in a tough situation now. It does, it does. But like in this situation, like I do feel for him involved. He's on a good run. But Strickland capitalized, man. He went out and he needed to make a statement.

And he did. Fluffy was on a good run and he didn't just beat him. He knocked him out. He finished him inside three rounds. As soon as he did that, I was like, oh, it's over. He's getting the title shot. There's just a matter of time. Yep, yep.

Yeah, a lot of it is timing, you know. And it's kind of a, it is kind of a bitch because, you know, I mean, I've talked about the satinazium, you know, it's a, there's a couple of people at the top, the elites of the UFC executive order or whatever that make all these decisions, right? It's not necessarily a meritocracy-based thing. I mean, obviously to some extent it is, right? I mean, you have to go out there and win, you have to perform. You know, you can't go lose fights and then expect a title shot. But it's not structured in really any manner that we all can understand. And that's what I think, you know, I think I'd be good to have.

I think it would just, just to have some sort of structure here. And it doesn't even have to be a total structure, you know, just something, some sort of framework that people can use to say, okay, this is, I want to do this fight because this is the structure I need. to do to get to the title shot. And not just that, you know, I want to fight somebody ranked above me. And then the ranking changes next week because someone decided that that's what the ranking should be, you know? Yeah. I mean, the rankings almost cause more problems than they solve these days.

It's almost like, why do we even do it? You know what I mean? Like, why do we even bother? Because, like, what does it really matter when, you know, guys are on winning streets that rank number one or two and they're not getting a title shot? It's almost like you're shooting yourself in the foot. Like, just do away with it and just, you know, book who you want to book? Like, I mean, that's what they're going to do anyways, you know what I mean?

But, well, that's the issue that, you know, when the promoter controls the ranking and who gets a title, I mean, that's the exact problem with it, right? It's like, you know, you're just at the will of the masters that say, this is what you need to do, right? That's not just go win fights. That's what I said this weekend. Like Lorone and Mosar can't just be a win. You've got to go out there and do something special because they will pass you over again. And that's like it or not. There's a reason why they're telling them you nothing's guaranteed.

We're not promising you a title. I mean, even if they promised your title shot, it really doesn't mean anything. But, you know, that conversation is... There's a lot of people promised Tyler Schatz and didn't get them. Yeah, but the fact that, like, they openly have not had that conversation tells you where the EFC's operating in this fight. Like, you need to go out and show us. And to a certain extent, I get it because, you know, Moistar has not been the most exciting guy,

and Lerone Murphy has an eye out of that out of that Pico fight. So we'll see what happens. But, yeah, I mean, you just never know. Like I said, if Steve Garcia goes out there and Torque's, you know, Diego Lopez's head off, maybe he gets a title shot. So you just don't know. Like I said, I'm not really complaining about Strickland because I think it's going to be a really fun fight.

It is a big fight. Outside like Adasania, working his way back into title contention, it's probably the biggest fight. They could have it middleweight right now, honestly. I mean, because we know Pereira's not going back down the middleweight, so it's like, who else would you do? Strickland's the guy. So this is the biggest fight they can book, and Hamzod is kind of a star in his own right.

So, yeah, I'm not really complaining. Him evolve. Like, he'll fight somebody else, and, you know, hopefully that'll get him a title shot. But even then, it's not a guarantee. Yeah, not a guarantee. But, yeah, I don't, I'm not mad about that, man. I like that fight as a matter of fact. And I think it is a proper matchup.

And, man, that's going to be, it's probably not going to be an exciting fight one way or another. Right. If Sean Stricken goes out and wins, he probably jabs him for five rounds and defends takedowns. If Hamzot wins, he probably takes him down and does what he did to DDP for five rounds. This is probably how the fight goes, one way or the other. Of course, this is MMA and things should go a million different ways, but that's the likelihood of how this fight goes. But the lead-up, this is going to be epic.

Like, we already know this is going to be just an epic press conferences, weigh-ins, stare-downs, face-offs, shit-talk, social media. Who knows? You're getting the whole gambit here, and I think that's going to be the funnest part of this fight. I mean, this is straight, you know, Ultimate Warrior v. Hulk, getting stuff. Warning, the following film is so intense. We are only allowed to advertise it for 15 seconds.

Excuse me? Zussie Bates. They will kill you, only in theaters March 27th. It's never too early to plan your summer story in Europe with WestJet, from rolling countryside to cobblestone streets. Begin your next chapter. Book your seat at westjet.com or call your travel agent. WestJet, where your story.

takes off. 100%. 100% agree. Matt, I want to talk about this last week. They announced that Francis Ngano was going to fight on that MVP car with Rhonda and Gina. He's fighting Philippe Lins, which is one of the weirdest fights. I can remember being booked in recent memory. Philippe hasn't fought. Philippe actually hasn't fought in longer time than in Ghana. He fought in like April, 24, and Ingana fought in October 2024. He fought and had like four-fight winning streak in the UFC, and they just didn't re-sign him because he wasn't the most exciting guy in the world. He's been a free agent, and now he's fighting Francis and Ghana, but it is what it is. But they did a press conference, and Rhonda continued her,

Rhonda Rousey continued her very, like, very public tirade about the UFC and basically said, like, it's no longer a good place for fighters to fight. They're screwing the fighters. Dana no longer controls everything. It's all about the bottom line. It's all about the shareholders. You know, they're terrible. It's a terrible organization.

You know, basically, you know, it's taking absolutely shot for shot. They're screwing fighters, underpaying fighters, blah, blah, blah. And everyone's like, rah, raw, raw, right. Rhonda, man, you're going after the UFC. Way to go, Rhonda. You're finally, you know, you finally saw the light. Here's my problem, Matt. And I mentioned this is a topic I want to bring up,

because I mentioned on Twitter as well. I'm not like, I mean, and this is about Rhonda, because at her peak, Rhonda was one of the two biggest stars in the sport, her and Connor. And her saying, like, now the UFC is a terrible place for fighters. They're underpaying fighters. Rhonda, the UFC antitrust lawsuit stuff came out years ago in discovery, and we figured out by paperwork that the fighters were getting paid between 16 and 20% of the revenue from the UFC.

This has been going on for much longer than the last few years when WME or Endeavor bought the UFC in 2016. And she's acting like this is all new. And I'm like, Rhonda, you were one of the two biggest stars in the sport until you left in 2016. Where was this then? Like she's acting like this is all new information. And I'm just like, and what really irritates me about it is like when your voice matters the most is when you're there. Like if she had like, you know what, we need to start a union. I need, you know, when her opponent, like when she's fighting Holly Holmer or she's fight Misha Tate or whoever she's fighting,

like, you know, she needs to do the Inghanu plan where like I'm making 10 million, they need to make five million. She could have had that stance. I don't think she ever did. I never heard anything like she was advocating for her opponents to make a certain amount of money. And she's acting like now Dana has no control, which I understand he has. bosses now, but I still think Dana makes like the most day-to-day decisions. Like you hear Ari Emanuel say it all the time. Like Dana runs the UFC.

I understand there's more corporate structure, but she's acting like the problems that exist now didn't exist when she was in the UFC. And then on top of that, she left the UFC in 2016. She went to WWE. She didn't do it, did either. It wasn't like she like, she basically was like shunned. She's like, I don't want anything to do with MMA. Like she left to MMA and was like, I don't even want to talk about MMA.

And basically it was like turned her back on people, turned her back on the sport. when she finally starts doing interviews again, she's like, oh, no one likes me. I couldn't go to the UFC event, they'd boo me. And I know we talked about that. Matt, I know you've been very outspoken about the antitrust lawsuits and, you know, promoters controlling everything and the UFC. But the problems that exist now are not new. Where was Rhonda 10 years ago when she could have really made a difference when she was in the UFC?

That's why I don't buy this whole anti-UFC stance. I think it's just publicity to build the fight and hopefully. get Dana to respond. You get something from the UFC to respond, so it builds her fight with Gina Carano because the reality is her and Gina may not be a competitive fight at all. It may end in 45 seconds in the first round. So what is she building around? She's building around.

I now hate the UFC. And I'm like, it all rings hollow to me. It all rings like a hypocrite. It's all hypocritical to me because I'm like, you had the loudest voice in the sport 10 years ago, but you were buddy-buddy with Dana back then. You were his favorite fighter and he's paying you a lot of money. it pisses me off because I'm like, where were you at then?

Like, you're saying this now. You're not affecting any change. You're not in the UFC anymore. Yeah, yeah. There's, well, there's a lot to unpack there. First off, I think I would start with, and I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I'm going to defend Rhonda a little bit, which is like the oddest thing ever because, you know, Rhonda, you know, her own worst enemy and very difficult person to defend.

But I think the reason that she got so turned off was when they got rid of the pay-per-view model, right? That's where she was making all of her money was the pay-per-view. And now, you know, she sees that, look, there's no paper-view. There's no way to truly make a lot of money, right? The paper-viewpoints was how she made the biggest paychecks. So I think that was like the initial thing that rubbed her the wrong way, right? And I mean, she said herself, like she approached the UFC to fight Gina Carrano first. And then because of the streaming model, she ends up not going with the UFC and going with Netflix where, I mean, I guess they're not doing a pay-per-view model there either.

But, you know, she's getting however much she's getting paid. And, you know, but I get where she's coming from on that. And also, I don't think she's wrong on a lot of things that she's saying. Right. I mean, I mean, and she's not the only one saying it. I feel like in the last, tell me if it's. This is just me, but in the last, I don't know, month or two, you know, since Paramount's kind of come on,

I felt more vitriol and anti-UFC than ever before. Like, there is so much negativity and complaining about the UFC lately. Like, it's crazy, like, scrolling through my social media and just so many people saying negative things about the UFC. And it's going to trickle down to the fans at some point. And, you know, like Brennan Schaubb was, say, oh, it's a sinking ship. You know, I don't know if it's that.

I don't know if I would go that far because, I mean, they're still raking in, you know, extreme profits. But, man, I don't know how you keep that contained, that negativity, right? To just the, before it was, you know, a small group of people. It started with, you know, John Fitch and Kyle Kingsbury and, you know, the Kung Lee, right? These people that were kind of looked at as these disgruntled ex-fighters

that were just trying to get, you know, started the lawsuit to try to get a payday out of the UFC because they didn't get their title money that they wanted, or, you know, whatever it was. And I feel like that has grown a lot, whether it changes anything, I don't know. But, you know, but the point is a lot of the things that Rhonda was saying, I think, are true. And I think a lot of people are saying the same thing. Now the question and where I'm not going to defend Ronda so much is, you know, what is her intention behind it? Does she actually want to see a better sport and a better structure? You know, does she actually have a bother that it's a monopoly?

Does she actually, you know, has she helped the antitrust lawsuit people at all? You know, has she, is she going to do anything other than look out for herself and try to you know, promote this fight the best that she can and use that tool like you're saying, use that for promotion and hopefully get a rise out of Dana or something. And, you know, what is her true intention behind this? That's my question. But again, I mean, she's not totally wrong. I mean, especially since, and she's not wrong.

And like Dana doesn't have total control over everything. I said this there a day, like, I'm really, really, I truly believe like the narrative in the boardroom, when they sit down and make matchups has changed very much than it was back when Dana, it was Diana, Joe Silva, Sean Shelby, Mickman, you know, just these few guys come together and they want to see the best fucking fights, right? And they want to see fucking blood and guts and, you know what I mean? And like, and there was like some relationships with different guys. And, you know, there was, I feel like the narrative is so different now where they're,

where now they're like, okay, you know, we have these investors. It's almost like a board meeting, right? Okay, what do we need to do to appease the investors and the shareholders and get them as much money as possible? And it seems that that is overtaken the narrative of the matchmaking. So

to wrap all that up, what I'm saying, Rhonda's not totally wrong. And look, better late than never, right? She's come out, hey, if, you know, she was, we're all fighters looking out for ourselves, right? She was looking out for, it's prize fighting. She's out there looking out for herself. So back in her day when she was looking out for herself and getting the best that she can, and she was probably getting what seemed like a good deal at the time.

I mean, she came up in Olympic judo. She wasn't making millions of dollars, right? And the first time she made those millions of dollars or hundreds of thousands. I mean, she's probably fucking blown out of her mind. And she's like, hey, I'll do anything for you guys. You help me make this money. And then over time, she kind of absorbs everything and sees through some of the smoking mirrors and this and that. And she's like, oh, wait, this isn't the same shit that I thought it was, right?

And, you know, I think it happens to most fighters as we age. But, yeah, again, she's not totally wrong in everything. But what is her intention? And is she actually going to attempt to do anything with this and a positivity? a positive for the group? Or is it just, I'm Rhonda Rousey and I'm pissed off, so I'm going to cry to the crowd and say what I think and then fuck all the rest of you too.

I think, like, the reason why it just rang so hypocritical to me was because, like, she's saying all these things now, like you said, the things she's saying about fire treatment and the EOC is not the same as it used to be, these are things that other people have said, so I don't think she's wrong. I agree. She's probably not wrong in what she's saying.

The reason why it rings hollow to me is because Ronda's never said this kind of stuff before, and the UFC's been under new ownership for a decade. Like literally they got bought out before her final fight. Like she fought technically under the new regime. They bought it in July 2016. Her last five was December 2016. I know it's not exactly the same, but it was under new ownership. I think what here's, and this is just me, this is my opinion, Matt.

I think this all comes down to her being pissed off, that they didn't give her a better deal when she was going to bring the Gina Corona fight there and pay-per-view went away and she won the guarantees. Now, I don't know, like, under the pay-per-view model, and I said this when we talked about the fight when it got made, I said, I don't know how many people

were going to be willing to plunk down $80 to watch that fight. Is it a pay-per-view? No, no, no, it's not. It's on Netflix. But I'm saying, like, if it had been under the old pay-per-view model, I think Rhonda's under the assumption that, like, she's coming back, they're going to pay her, like, I don't know, $5 million, but then she gets pay-per-view points.

I don't know that that fight in 2026 does like a lot of pay-per-views. Because, like, we're talking about, you know, 27 years of combined out of ring, like those both of them. And then, you know, Rhonda. To be fair, just on that point real quick, I mean, I think if they, if it were in the UFC, they are the marketing machine of all marketing machines. They are. And they could also put a great undercard on it, too, right?

Sure. They could put, you know, like, say a Holloway Oliver, they could have been on that car. You know what I mean? Like they could make this a sellable pay-per-view. But go ahead. They could. But yeah, no, you're right. You're right.

They could have done that. But then, you know, I assume what probably happened was is that, you know, she was going to make it guaranteed. I don't know. I'm just throwing out number $3 million. And then pay-per-view points with pay-per-view. She could have made $15 or $20 million. I don't know.

And when the pay-per-view went away, she's like, well, I want $50 million guaranteed. And they're like, we're not going to guarantee that much because now we're, you know, now we've got to guarantee ratings and we got to guarantee blah, blah, blah. and so maybe they offered her $10 million. And then she goes to Jake Paul, and Jake Paul's, I'll pay you $15 or $20 million. Like, that's what the Netflix will pay. And so she's like, I think she's pissed off that, like, the EOC didn't step up and pay her better for what she believes she deserved.

And to a certain point, she's not wrong. But I think that's where all this is coming from. Like, I think it's coming. Me personally, I'm just skeptical of, like, her sincerity with all this stuff. I think it still rings of, like, her personal grudge after they didn't step up and offer her a ridiculous pay date and, like, Gina. of Corona, which you could argue she's not wrong about that because Gina and Rhonda is going to be a huge fight and it's going to crush in terms of like viewership, it's going to crush the White House simply

because Netflix has 325 million subscribers. Like by just sheer numbers alone, it's probably going to crush the White House card. That's not a knock on the White House card, it's just dollars and cents numbers. Like that's just the reality. Like Paramount Plus has 79 million subscribers. Netflix has 325 million. You get people who accidentally turn on the fight and watch it. You know what I mean?

So, like, yeah, it's going to crush it, and she's not wrong. I don't know ultimately what the actual impact of this fight is going to be long term. We talked about this, like, what does it really do for the sport? I don't know if it really does anything for the sport. Because I think Rhonda wins, she just fucks off again. Like, she's not going to stick around and, you know, become like a manager. Oh, she wins. Lord knows.

Yeah. But how big her ego will get. And they could, like, they still could do the Hollyholm rematch. She's a free agent. She's under MVP right now. Like, they could do that. So, I mean, there's... I don't think this is a long term.

And like you said, what she's saying is not wrong. You're right. There is a real negativity right now where the EO sees involved. Cards don't feel like they're getting as much attention. People are kind of pissed off for, like, the quality and so on and so forth. And then the White House card comes out and everyone's like, this isn't the greatest card you ever promised us, blah, blah, blah. You know, still talking about whether Connor's going to come back. You know, we're waiting.

I'm not even talking about, like, the reality of whether it's. Conner's coming back. I'm like, they haven't even, like, announced these coming back. Like, we've got a deal done. Let's bring Connor back. So I get, like, what I get what you're saying. You're absolutely right. I'm just like, I don't know that I buy it with Rhonda saying it. You know what I mean? Like, if this was, you know, I don't know. This was out like when Alex Pereira seemed like he got mad and instead he was hacked or whatever. But like, John Jones. Like, John Jones this week came out. I was like, if I'm really done, release me. Like, that was John's honest feelings. I truly, I truly believe, like, that was him being like, hey, you're kind of smear my name

the mode for no reason. He hasn't really talked about it much in terms of like, you know, I'm going to fight the White House, I'm guaranteed it for whatever. Rhonda's saying, and I'm just like, you didn't seem to care of that much in 2015 when you were the biggest star, when Dana was your buddy and he was taking care of you and calling you the greatest fighter ever to work with. You didn't

say it then. You walked away from the sport. You had plenty of time while you're in WWE to say, hey, UFC's they fuck over the fighters. They really do. Never did it then. Now you got something to promote. And And to be fair, I don't know if she felt fucked over before that either, though. Again, I may think they took care of her, at least to the extent that she felt like she was being taken care of at the time, right?

Just, I mean, I would be a perfect example of that, too. Like, I never said shit when I was fighting, right? I thought that everything was going good, you know? I thought that, hey, this is just the way the world works. This is the way fighting works. And, you know, I mean, I heard about the lawsuit and discovery. I was still competing. I never said shit because I was like, I was like, well, you.

fucking nerds doing fucking lawsuit for you know what i mean like i didn't want to take the time to research all that like my focus is on training in my next fight you know so again i'm a little bit more sympathetic towards her on this uh just because again but but to your point look what's her intention what's her motivation what's behind the curtains there because what ronda says um that's sort of the the issue with ronda that that that i think a lot of us have now is you know, everything she says, you know, we have, we have a question about it. You know, what is your intention? What's your true feelings?

Because of who she is as a human being is what we question. Her motivations and her values and her integrity and things like that. So I think that's kind of what it comes down to. And listen, you're right about like, you know, Rhonda coming back was the biggest story of that time. Like, no one ever thought she would fight again. And she had concussions and she's whatever. She's never going to fight. And now that she has this big, loud platform on Netflix,

she's using it and saying like the UFC's screwing over fighters. She's not wrong. You're right. She's not wrong. I just wish she had used her voice sooner because like now to me, like my skepticism comes into the point where I'm like she's promoting her fight. That's kind of what I'm saying. Her and Gina don't like, her and Gina don't really have beef.

Like they're not like, you know, it's not like intense stairdown. So it's like, how are we going to build this fight? Well, the narrative is Rhonda was Dana's girl. Ronna was Dana's girl. Like that was his pre-o. She's the easiest fighter ever worked with. anything I never needed, she did it. And now she's like,

the UFC fucking sucks. And so it's like, ooh, like, you know, that makes better headlines than her and Gina having like a love fest and be like, oh yeah, we're friends and we made a fight together. And it's still a big fight. It's going to be a very big fight, not denying that. But like her attacking the UFC.

And so I guess, like you said, it's the intentionality of it. Like, is she being sincere that she really wants change? She really wants to affect change? Or is she doing it to promote her fight? To me, it feels like she's promoting her fight and the headlines are, oh, my God, you pissed off the UFC. But what she's saying is not wrong.

She's not wrong on what she's saying. Look, I think her real intentions are kind of a pity party thing. And I think she does that a lot. She kind of wants, you know, she plays that victim mentality a lot. And I think that's sort of a character flaw, so to speak, of hers. I mean, I think that she has a lot of internal issues, you know, that kind of come out in the public a lot. And I think that's really like what's going on. You know, she's not necessarily saying all this to try to change the sport or try to help the future of MMA or anything.

But, you know, she wants the attention, right? And she wants to say something that gets people's emotions going about her, right? She wants to feel valid and recognized and things like that. But she's not wrong either. So whatever the intention is. And again, look, when she was in her prime, you know, again, when she was an Olympic athlete, I mean, she was probably making, I think, a gold medalist get, you know, 100,000 a year or something, right, you know, and, you know, so she's probably getting some help with training,

maybe a little bit of sponsorship, you know, she's making, like, a decent living. And then she comes in the UFC and she's doing paper viewpoints and she's killing it. So then when she approaches the UFC and approaches Dana White about this fight, and they're kind of interested in the. kind of brush her off. I mean, I think just her emotions get the best of her. And she's like, you know, I will fuck you, motherfuckers. I mean, that's kind of the person that she is, right? You're either 100% with her or you're 100% against her, which is part of her competitive mentality, which is in some ways is a good thing as a competitor in terms of the public relating to you

and understanding is not always the best way, so to speak. It's not necessarily the best thing to speak out loud, right? But I think that's really what it comes down to. And yeah, I don't think she's doing it because, you know, she thinks she's actually going to invoke some change here in the world of MMA. I think she's doing it, you know, to get emotions out of people and, and, and, and what would you say, like to, I don't want to say like a pity party, but, you know, kind of, you know, get the attention on her.

Like, you know, they're the worst because they were the worst to her. look, if they were still, if they would have given her a good deal on this fight, and she, and she seemed still how they were doing other fighters who are getting fucked over, like a Mosah or something, who've been fucked over, like, she wouldn't say anything about it. Like, you know, it all comes down to her. And that's, that's my problem right there. And that, I think is where you're having the issue. If the U.S.C. gave, giving her the deal she wanted, she got $15 million or whatever number she was asking for,

and Gina got 10 or whatever the number was. and she's like we're fighting the UFC it's gonna be the headline of the White House whatever card it's gonna be on she wouldn't be saying a word right now if they would have gave Gina 10K and her 15 million she wouldn't have said anything

right like she's you know self-absorbed person yeah and that's and that's my problem because like she's always kind of been that way like she's never been like raw raw the sport I'm here for the sport like she literally said two years ago like I couldn't go to a UFC event because they boo me

You know, like, I know they boo me out. And you said, like, you know, because I don't want to miss Quill. You know, you call her one of the most unlikable fighters out there. She got to shoot herself in the foot constantly with the thing she says. And you mentioned the pity party, like, you know, after her retirement. Like I said, like, to this day, I still have not heard her say, like, man, Holly Holm had a great performance. She's like, I fell down a flight of stairs before the fight and I got caught and my concussion history. I've said a million times.

Like, we want to like her. Yeah. I still don't think she's doing herself any favors. Like, I don't think that calling out the UFC. and call it out Dana White, you know, for us to like her more is the way to go. Now, again, if she actually wants to invoke some change and actually wants to see a better sport, I hope that's her intention. And people change, right?

People grow up. People evolve. People get better. You know, I'll get, as long as she's out there saying the right things, then I'll overlook the actual intention behind it, the motivation. And like, cool. at least someone who has a huge name is saying some of the right things. Yeah, and you know, and you're right.

Like, I think we see a lot of the negativity right now, which is odd. Like, it feels like the, you know, the wheel. And, you know, I mean, I guess maybe we go back in time a little bit. You know, social media wasn't what it is now and so big and everything. But, like, you know, I remember when the UFC sold in 2016 and, like, you know, all the guys left Joe Silver retired and they brought in new people. And, like, there was like this general sense of, like, dread. Like, oh, my God, what's going to have? happen. And they signed with the ESPN and they doubled their revenue and they're like, well,

how's this going to trickle down to the fighters? But I said this to you before with the whole paramount deal. And I was like, you know, and the Conner Bend thing, I was like, yeah, a lot of people are making noise about it right now. But like, we found out 10 years ago, fighters were getting horrifically screwed over with the percentage of revenue being paid out. And like, there wasn't a big revolt. Like, everyone talked about it for like six months and it kind of died away again. I think the key to this, if Rhonda's serious, if Rhonda's really trying to affect changes, he's really trying to be like, hey, they're fucking over the fighters, is she going to continue this after the fight?

Like, does she stick around? Like, win-lose-or draw? Does she do some interviews? Does she go on social media and say, hey, you know, it was my night I won or it wasn't my night I lost, but hey, you know, I still think what we did for the sport with me and Gina fighting on Netflix and giving Francis and Gano a platform, like, this is great. I can't wait to see the next MVP show. They're going to really fight for fighters. She does that.

Then I'll be like, oh, maybe she was more sincere in her approach. to me right now it feels like promotion it feels like sour grapes feels like sour grapes she's like you know so he didn't give me what I want and fuck them and she she is saying fighters are getting screwed over she's right but I think deep down there's a little bit of I got screwed over you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah it's just knowing ronda's personality I can't help but be skeptical that that's what this is really about for sure for sure and the one thing I was going to say was you know with all the negativity that we're kind of feeling right now or hearing you know on social media and everything

again we've been through these kind of phases before right where you know when the rebog deal came in or when discovery came out when paramount not paramount when endeavor bought the ufc you know we've been through these kind of phase but yeah i think it was a you see 200 300 whatever right and there was that's not you know the best whatever right this happens what i'm feeling right now though is is i don't see what the way that they always fixed it before was by putting on great fights right they put on the next big fight and and look okay we're all distracted by the blood and the violence right that's that's an easy way to get it back i don't the the problem right now is the cards and the fights that they're making if they don't change that part then how is the narrative going to change how are people going to come back around to the UFC and right now i mean i think they're just my guess is they're bringing in so many new fans, right? Particularly like younger fans, you know, teenagers,

you know, early 20s, these types of people. But I got to think that that'll trickle down to them, right? Eventually. But I think it'll be a long, slow burn. You know, it's not something like, because as long as they're putting on fights, you know, it's on paramount now.

It's not that expensive or anything. People are going to be watching. But how long is it going to take? until, you know, it's not going to go to the bottom, right? UFC's not going to go out of business. But, you know, when it's up at the, when does it go to the bottom of the valley again? Right, right?

It's going to, I think it's going to slowly go down. And then, you know, there will be a bottom. And it'll probably be a pretty fucking high bottom, right? It's not going to be, you know, below sea level shit here. Right? We're talking like, you know, there's still be raking in mad profits and everything. but my question is are they God, how would you say?

Sometimes I think my CTE kicks in or something. Are they stopping the growth? You know, like I think it could keep going up. I mean, they got so much money now. You know, that they could be vesting back into the sport. They got, they're on Paramount Plus. You know, they got, you know, there's so many things they could be doing.

but are they stopping the rise and it's going to start you know kind of a bell curve going back down now yeah i mean that's my question no i i think you know that's a legitimate question and i think you know as time passes you know more and more fights get made and like the white house card came out and there was kind of like a general groan like it wasn't you know oh my god it's the greatest card everyone kind of kind of kind of a letdown even though it actually is a good card it's just not like you didn't, it is, you didn't, you promise it's the greatest card ever and it doesn't feel like the greatest car ever. But yeah, I'm just kidding because like, like, and here's the thing, like fighters, like, and

Dana, I'm not defending Dana White, trust me, the last thing I want to do, but like, you know, when he's like, you know, we dealt with Tito for years, we can get deals done. Like, right before he fought, Fulfi Hernandez, Sean Strickle was talking mad shit about he didn't get paid more. There was no extra money when he signed a paramount. He's like, we're indentured servants or whatever. I don't want to misquote him, but he was like, we get fucked over constantly. he went out and won

still gave him a title shot. They didn't punish him because Sean Strickland has a big... And this is what I'm saying? If Rhonda had done this when she was there, I don't think they would have punished her. Like, you know what I mean? She was Ronald Rousie. She was the biggest star outside of Connor McGregor.

But now, like, I think the real question is, like, is it authentic? If she's authentically, like, trying to affect change and she just, you know, she left the UFC and feels like it's just that much different now 10 years later and it's a whole different operation. And, you know, she's like, I want this. And Dana's like, well, they won't.

let me give you that. Maybe that's where it's coming from. I don't know. And even if it's authentic, Damon, like the bigger issue with her is her reputation. And it's, if she's being authentic about it and she actually tries to elicit change, I think with her reputation, it's kind of a bad look as the leader of a movement like that, right? It's kind of not the person that, that we all want, all the fighters want at the helm of this. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. But you know, you're right. Like, She's voicing an opinion right now, and it's very loud, and it's getting a lot of attention. I'm sure she's going to continue to do that. They don't fight until May.

And listen, if she fights Gina and it's a massive fight, and it will be a massive fight. I'm telling you right now, I think it's going to be the biggest fight of the year just based on sheer numbers. Like, it's just, you know, it's impossible. Like, they're not going to trump Netflix. They're not. She goes out, but then she sticks around. Even if she's never going to fight again, she sticks around, she does interviews, she goes on social. She continues to say, like, everything went so smooth.

Jake Paul's great. Dekees is great. This is exactly what we need to have in the sport. more fights. Because, you know, if this goes well, which I expect it will, you know, even if Geronda never fights again, maybe they're like, hey, like, you know, Francis, do you want to fight John Jones? John Jones is unhappy right now. Like, you guys should release John Jones, let him go fight Francis, make this big fight on Netflix,

which you know they'll never do. But, like, if she continues that, like, even she never fights again. She just doesn't fade off into obscurity again. You know what I mean? Like, because when she lost in 2016, she's like, more or less was like, fuck MMA, fuck the UFC, fuck everybody, goes into hiding. pops back out to go into WWE and then, you know, once again,

kind of fucks off again to the end of time. If she stays, even if she never fights again, and she's like, hey, like, I had such a great experience. MVP treated me like gold. Netflix was amazing, blah, blah, blah. And the UFC just isn't the place I thought it was anymore. Then I'll be like, damn, okay, maybe she really, even if she's not like, you know,

I'm not saying she's going to start a union or anything, I'm not, she didn't need to go that far. But like, if she sticks around and does that kind of stuff, maybe I'll take it as more sincere. Right now, to me, it just feels like promotion. It feels like, let's poke the bear. The UFC's still the biggest. They are.

Let's poke the bear. UFC card sucks. And by the way, like I said, her fight's probably going to destroy the White House card. I'm predicting it right now. They're going to probably do double the ratings, if not more, based on sheer numbers of people who can watch. But I just, to your point, like, do we want Rhonda being the advocate? I'm like, that's why I question the sincerity of it all. Because I'm like, I don't, Rhonda was never this person before.

Like, she never did any of this before. Even when she left to you, so I don't know. I kind of go to your point where, like, she's saying it, like, all the fighters, we all get screwed over. But I think deep down inside she's like, I'm getting screwed over. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, again, I think, you know, at least, you know, I try to be optimist and look at the bright side of things. Look, she's saying things that I think a lot of people feel, a lot of fighters feel on the inside.

and, you know, when you're fighting, particularly when you're fighting in the UFC, you know, you don't feel like you have a freedom to say those things, even though, you know, some guys do, right? Gagey said something. Al Jermaine just came out and said some shit recently. I don't know if I call it shit,

but, you know, he said some things recently. They were kind of speaking out, you know, Strickland. Obviously, I mean, he says all kinds of shit. But like, when Strickland, like when Strickland says, and I'm like, this is Strickland. Like, he's just being strict. Right. That's what I was about to say.

Because when Al Jermaine said it, he actually was, you know, pretty eloquent with it, right? He had a good little talk about it. And I think he was on, was he on Ariel's show, I think? And, you know, and he spoke well. And that's the type of guy that would be good to lead a movement like that. You know, when Rhonda says it, you're kind of like, I mean, even just us having this conversation right now, we're like, look, is this real? Is this authentic?

Is this bullshit? Is this, you know, sour grapes? What is this? And we're questioning it. You know, when Strickland says it, you're like, dude, he's like Alex Jones, bro. He's going to say some crazy shit. A lot of it might even be factual, right?

Some of the most wildest conspiracies might be true. But then you're going to start talking about intergalactic aliens. And we're like, all right, motherfucker. Like, now you lost me. You know, so having the right voice with the right reputation, I think goes a long way. And I think that's the problem with Rodden. Like it just doesn't. It just wants it.

It just wants it. I'm like, well, you know what, like Strickland? The thing he drives me crazy about Strickland is like, every like 10 thing he says. I'm like, God, he makes a good point. But then he says nine crazy, insane fucking wild out there, you know, offensive, whatever things. And I'm like, dude, like, God, man. But he says like that one thing where he's like, we need to go after pedophiles. And we need to, like, there's some creepy things going on the coaches and fighters in sport.

And I'm like, oh, you're not wrong here. There's some creepy shit that goes on. He says it. And I'm like, damn, like, why do you make me agree with you on Strickland? And then he goes on the other side. You're like, all right. Let's not talk about that. But, yeah, I just, I don't know.

I just questioned sincerity of it. And I hope she's being real. And if she actually affects change, good for her. I think, you know, it is long overdue. I mean, it's been overdue for more than a decade since she was in the O.C. So, like, in a weird way, it is a strong Strickland thing. It's like the one, like, I agree with Ronda. Like, what she's saying is not wrong.

I just question the sincerity. Whereas when Strickland says it, I'm just like Strickland's being Strickland. He's just Strickland. Like you're always going to get 1,000% Sean Strickland. Whereas Ron, I'm like, is she being sincere? Is she trying to promote her fight? Because she doesn't really have a beef with Ron. You know, that's the problem I have with this.

Like, I don't know if I can believe, like, she truly believes this. Yeah, it reminds me very much of like Alex Jones, right? Where if you go back in history, and I actually talked about this on the Joe Rogan podcast, I was like, dude, Alex says a lot of real shit. Like he says that he was talking about. Epstein Island like 2005 or 2006, right? But then, you know, he'll go on some other shit. He got about intergalactic aliens, right?

And, you know, and he's like, all these politicians, all they're doing is, you know, they're fucking going to their intergalactic planet and coming back. And you're like, dude, like, stop where you're ahead. Like you had it right. But my point with what I said was, you know, I think he's, I always thought that he's a government plant to say the truth of what's going on and then add in that extra shit just so that now everything he says is crazy.

And so when he talked about intergalactic aliens, they're like, well, that's crazy. So then there being a Pito Island, that must be crazy too. So it kind of creates like this vibe of like, okay, everything he says is crazy. But what he's really saying is some real truth in there. And I think Strickland does it, though, I think because he knows that that's what's going to get the views and the clicks. And I'm sure that he's a little bit like that in person too. But like I trained with him way back in the day. And he wasn't like a loud mouth or anything.

He's actually a real humble. Like, you know, we talked a little bit, talked about training and, you know, showed respect and everything. He was a great guy. But I think once he got a taste of that attention, right? And he's like, oh, all I got to do is say some. shit that you know I don't even have to really think about it I just say some shit that's fucking controversial and and y'all pay attention let's fucking go right and I think that's kind of way he does because he's I think he's actually a smart guy and I

think he's got a probably got a good head on his shoulders you know all this shit of like I'd be in a trailer park if or smoking meth or in prison or some shit if I wasn't fighting I don't actually buy that I think he'd probably you know be the manager or manufacturing players. You know what I mean? Like I think he'd be, or an engineer, I don't know, he'd be doing something probably like better for society than he thinks. Well, it was funny because like with Strickland, like I didn't interview with him a few years

ago. Do you remember he got a really bad motorcycle accident a few years ago? He was out for like a year and a half or whatever. When he was coming back, we did an interview. And I did a big article about it, like coming back from a motorcycle accident's career almost ending. And like he was very sincere, like really, really good interview. And I did big story on it.

I can hear now. I'm just so grateful to be back. I mean, he was like, I mean, it was like, I'm not going to say her in line saying like he got emotional and cried or anything, but like he was definitely like getting some deep shit. Like, it was a really good interview. And I'd interviewed him a few times before. And you're right. He got a taste of it and he just kind of spirals out.

But the thing was Strickland, like him or not, like, I don't question his authenticity. Like, I think like, he probably always felt this way. Like, he just didn't voice his opinion as much. Now he's like, oh, people like when I say crazy shit? Okay. I mean, cranked that up to 11. Whereas like a Colby Coving's and you're like, dude, just putting on a show. Like, you're just like, you're rehearsing.

lines and you're going out and spouting lines. Like when Sean Strickland tells somebody. Like you're paying those girls to be in the picture, buddy. We know it. Like with Sean Strickland, I'm just like, yeah, he's just going to say some crazy shit because that's just Sean Strickland. I never questioned his authenticity. Whereas with Colby, I'm like, it feels like an actor.

It feels like, you know, you're putting on a show. And I think Sean has fun with it too, right? Oh, he does. I don't think like everything he says is necessarily a hundred percent true. But if it like pops in his head, he's like, oh, this will get some people riled up. Let's go. you know and he might think about it later and be like yeah they're probably right whatever I'll just say it again yeah and but like the difference is like you know when when colby says

authenticity when colby says I'm like that's an act you know when when you know whatever you know even like you know but kind of like the thing with ronda like can I really believe that she believes this or do I believe that like she's feeling this personally and she's just like you know expressing her own personal frustration because dana didn't be like hey you're ronda let me give you whatever you want Sean Strickland I just like, dude, he's insane. He's going to say some crazy shit. And I disagree with about 96% of what he says.

But every night again, he'll drop a nugget in there. I'm like, Sean Shickland's right. But I never questioned his authenticity. I can't help with Rhonda to be like, is she being authentic? Is she being real? Or is she promoting the fight? And that's some respect, right? Because you're like, look, okay, even if we have differing views and differing opinions on things,

you know, you're saying what you truly think. You're not pandering to somebody. You're not making shit up. Yeah, you're saying what, you know, is actually on your mind. and, you know, I mean, that's exactly what's wrong with, you know, all the politicians, right? Like, none of them just say what they actually think, right? And like this last week, I don't know if you saw it or not, but like Francis came out and was like, they're like, you're ruining your legacy. He's like, fuck my legacy.

I'm getting paid. And I'm like, good for you. Like, because I said on Twitter when the fight got made, I was like, I'm not, Kelly, Francis won the money. I was like, but I do wonder, like, when his career's over, is he going to be one of the biggest what-ifs because he's not going to get the competition he needs to, like, you know, vault. But how much does that really? matter. But when Francis says it, I'm like, well, yeah, because Francis said this when he was under contract with the EOC. He's like, you guys are fucking me over. I want better, I want better support for the fighters. He want better benefits, blah, blah, blah. He fought for that. That's

what I'm like, I don't question his authenticity. When Francis says, I'm like, yeah, Francis has been saying this for, you know, five years now, six years, whatever it is like, he's always been that dude. That's where I'm like, where is this at when you were fighting, Rhonda, where is this out like when you left? Right, right. And my question with Francis, though, where I, you know, maybe I digress with him a little bit. It's like, have you not made enough money to be cool for generations? Like a good grandkids? You know what I mean?

Like, I feel like, again, I don't know his financial situation. I mean, I got ideas of how much he made in these boxing matches. But I feel like he's made enough money that that doesn't necessarily need to be the goal anymore. And it could shift now back to legacy. And that's where I detract from him a little bit on what he was saying. But I don't know his financial situation. either. You know, I don't know what he's done with his money, how much he made. I don't know all that. But just from the outside looking in, I'm like, bro, like, I feel like you've made enough money that you can go back to legacy now, because you'll still make money when you're fighting. Like, you know, you don't need to sell yourself short either. But you also don't need to be fighting Felipe Lins, you know, that's not doing anything legacy-wise at all. You know, I think you could have the best of both worlds, especially, being that the money should already be taken care of, I think. But again, that's just a, you know,

that's a guess assumption, right? Because I don't actually know his financial situation. But once you get like $10 million, like, I think you should be cool, you know. Like a million's like, okay, like, you know, we still got to do some things. You know, it's not going to last you the rest of your life. Like when you're like of those tens, the double digit millions, I think you should be pretty cool. And I've never had it. So I've I can't say that factually, but I feel like you should be all right, and now you can focus on the things that matter in life. Yeah, well, and like I said, when Francis says, I'm like, yeah,

Francis has been that dude. And I'm like, yeah, he's made this struggle. When he says, like, fuck it, legacy. I want a paycheck. Good for you. Like, I think more people should probably have that attitude a little bit anyway. Like when it comes to prize, I remember, you're here to make money. And, you know, you doing the UFC a favor doesn't mean they're going to pay you back a favor.

Just because you step up on a short notice on three days notice And you fight a fight and you lose but it was a great fight doesn't mean they're gonna be like oh let me double your paycheck next time That's not gonna happen we both know that you know it means like balance your expectations with that kind of shit So I appreciate what Francis said and I'm like yeah Francis being Francis with Rhonda I'm like Yeah Yeah, I just yeah yeah yeah so we'll see I don't know that's just Rhonda you know it's unfortunate because that she's kind of set herself up in that situation I said with her reputation I don't think it's ever going to change no matter what she's says for the rest of her life, you know, I don't know, unless she, you know, I don't know,

finds God or something and just completely changes everything about her. And she's got a long way to like rebuild her reputation with the masses where we trust what she's saying and we really feel what she's saying because I think she's kind of got disconnected from, you know, the fan base and disconnected from the people who have supported her and disconnected from the people who not even necessarily did support her, but are just, you know, fight fans or whatever. And, you know, she's on a different level where, you know, where you can't do the things that she did at the level that she's at. You know, you can't get all those things that everybody wants and then dismiss everybody and shun everybody as if, you know, they're the enemy of you when they got you there. Yeah, I just, like I said, we got two months to go until that fight.

and I'm very curious, like, in the lead-up, like, what kind of interviews Rhonda's going to do? Like, you know, I don't, Rhonda probably will never speak to me again. I have no idea, but I'd love to interview. I've interviewed her in the past, and actually had a pretty good relationship with Rhonda, like, years ago. But interview with me, interview with Luke Thomas. She's going to be like, fuck you. Interview with me, interview with somebody who's going to ask her, like, real questions. Like, why didn't you ever congratulate, like, why does it feel like you never congratulated, you know, Holly Holm?

Like, I read your autobiography. I saw all the interviews. and I don't discount the reality of your health situation, but I never once heard you say, congrats, Holly, you've got to better me that night. You got to think she's going to do an Ariel interview, right? And I don't know if Ariel will go there or not. He does sometimes.

Sometimes he'll cross some lines. I don't know if he would with Rhonda, though. Well, it's because he's, I mean, he's working that event. He's working the event, yeah. So I don't think it's like just being honest. I'm not trying to knock Arrow him to send him. He's getting a paycheck from doing that event. I don't think he's going to, like, try to stir up.

real trouble before but like Luke Thomas and Luke does an incredible job like Luke will ask real questions I will ask real questions uh there are other people do interviews anymore though he does occasionally he does yeah he still does stuff yeah he still does stuff yeah I have to see him do an interview a long time just seems like it's just him and his co-host talking what was brett campbell who's a different guy now yeah chuck mannand hall who's awesome I love chuck chuck's awesome yeah chuck's one of hair people he's great um but yeah like him like you do a do a conversation with lead on talk to me like I'm like I'm like I will asked you those questions, but you don't talk to me. Talk to Luke. I know Luke will ask you those questions. I know for a fucking fact, Luke will ask you those questions. Did you see his take down

of Mike Carpenter? Holy shit. I was like, I was like, Luke's a friend of mine. I say that because I've known Luke for a lot of years. I'm like, Luke, if I ever piss you off, please tell me privately because I do not want to get fucking torched like that. But Luke would be a guy. And honestly, like a Chuck Mendenhall or, you know, like one of those guys would like, they would have, like, even though, like, you know, I think they would ask her real question. Mike Bond does a great job. He does great. And I think he would ask her real questions. Not Max Kellerman.

No. Yeah. Yeah. Not. Don't go into fucking view. I don't want to hear what they got to fucking say. Like, and if that happens, then I'll be like, all right, she's sincere about like wanting to, you know,

kind of have a Mia Copa, so to speak, with like the relationship she had with this sport when she left. And I get it. It ended in a ugly way. It ended a bad way. I get it. And maybe she doesn't want to talk about that. But like, people are going to ask her those real questions.

And like I said, that doesn't have to be me. Like I said, I'm advocating for Luke Thomas. Do it for Luke Thomas. We'll do the interview of him. Then I'll be like she would be cool if she would do like a long form podcast. Like a, you know, I think Joe Rogan might get into some of us. He's very good at getting into those sort of things without directly asking. Yeah.

You know, or Lex Fredman. But like I want somebody who knows the sport. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, when she does, like she did that one thing with like. I think Joe knows the sport. No, no, Joe. I'm saying the other guy. Like I'm saying like Joe, yes.

But like, she did that interview. like Burke Kreisher, who's a comedian, and he's like, he likes the sport, but like, you're not going to get into like, you know, the hard hitting, like, she's never really done that kind of interview. And I'm like, I want to see you. Yeah, but I'm like, I want to see. And like, like, like, that will, that will tell me, like, how sincere she is about this because like, yeah, I understand you got to do the ESPNs. You got to do, you know, you got to do the view or whatever to build your fight. But like, I'm curiously, will she ever address these things?

Is also does it matter even if, again, if she is authentic about it? because her reputation, like who wants to have her as the leader or who's going to follow, you know, what her lead is, right? Even if she's not the leader, so to speak, you know, does anyone want to follow? There's probably a fucking swathe of people out there that hear her say that and makes them want to watch the UFC more. Yeah.

There's people there like, oh, you hate the UFC? Well, we don't really like you either. So the UFC must be the good guys in this. Yeah, you never know. So I don't know. We'll see how it goes. We got two months ago to the fight. Maybe my opinion will change.

I remain skeptical, but that's just because I feel like I've seen enough from Ron over the last decade to be skeptical. So we'll see. But you're right. What she's saying is not wrong. But would it be better if it was coming from George St. Pierre or, you know, somebody with a little bit more admiration, you know, or Khabib would come out and say that. We'd be like, oh, shit, like, Khabib, you know.

Or Islam. You know, I'm just saying, like, when Rhonda says it, I'm like, eh, all right, all right, Francis. I'm like, yeah, Francis, you've been saying that for a while now. So we'll see she's got two months till the fight, and then she's got months after the fight. Does she stick around? Does she, you know, want to stay around?

And I understand she's a private person in her personal life. That's fine. I don't need you to tell me about your wife, your husband and kids. And I don't need to know their names. I don't need you to get personal. But, like, you can still talk about the business of MMA, even if you're not fighting. So we'll see.

I guess it's like a wait and see. approach of Rhonda. Yeah, it's kind of interesting when you mentioned that, right? Because, you know, the guys like Khabib never do speak up, but, you know, it's the John Joneses, right? Who, who, again, you know, with their reputation, you're like, well, he's kind of a reckless guy, you know, and he's just saying some reckless shit now. And, you know, where the Ronda's. You know, it's like, you know, I guess like Mighty Mouse has kind of spoken up a little bit here and there. You know, I think he's probably, you know, in terms of guys with reputations who, who deserved more than they got for sure, you know, I mean, he's probably one of the best guys

speaking up. I mean, I've spoken out, but, you know, I don't have a name like those guys. You know, I mean, I don't have the respect that those guys have. So it's a, you know, like, I don't know where GSP is. Like, I mean, does he feel like he got the money that he earned? You know, I've always wondered that, like, when you're looking at Khabib and GSP and Anderson Silva and, I don't know, Chuck Lidale, whatever. You know. know some of these these guys I mean are they comfortable like knowing like after this discovery the lawsuit all this like do they do they not look at it and say we say okay I made great money I made 10 million 20 million dollars about my career I should have made a hundred million

I mean do they not look at that like dude there's 80 million dollars lost here maybe I should say something so the next guy doesn't have to go through this yeah I mean you never know like I said, I mean, I know that, like, you know, Kabim, for instance, like, obviously, I'm sure he looks out for Islam, and I know they both have representation and things like that. Like, you know, he and me and to Islam. Ali who works for the UFC. But, like, maybe there, maybe that's, like, his way of, like, you know, like, I have a feeling. Kamee got paid really well from what I understand. Like, he made a lot of money in

the EOC. He made a lot of money, you know, outside the EFC. And by the way, what, one guy finds rich is, is not necessarily what another guy finds rich. Like, if Kibb made $25 million throwing out a number made 25 million and he's got a house he's happy in dougain he's coaching still making money his guys are doing well he may not have a problem with what he got paid maybe yeah sure maybe maybe he could have

made 80 but for him he's like I got 25 million like I'm fine I'm not hurting I can't go I can go to the store I get extra cheese in my wapper I don't really give a fuck like I'm you know so everyone's going to be different like you know I mean so I'm not going to fall like and George St. Peter same kind of thing like if he's happy if he made

you know 60 million dollars during his career and he's never got to work another day in his life. And yes, he could have made $100 million, but he's like, I got $60 million. Like, you know, and like he's not, he's not up to Elon Musk mindset. He's like, I need to make a trillion dollars. No, the fuck you don't.

You got, you'll never work another day and you're like, you do not need a trillion fucking dollars. But for some guys, he's like, I made $50 million. Like, what do I care? I'm happy. I'm content. Yeah, you know, everyone's different. Everyone's different.

We have to ask if that is maybe part of the problem, too, right? Like when you make enough, like, you know, a lot of these guys, like Khabib, for instance, I mean, I don't know his whole history, but, you know, coming from Dagestan, like he most likely grew up fairly poor, you know, maybe completely poor, maybe middle class, I don't really know, but, you know, he didn't grow up rich, I don't think. And so he gets what he gets. And he's probably, like you said, he's probably happier than shit.

He's like, dude, like, I worked my ass off. I got what I wanted. And my family's taken care of. I got food on the plate. I get extra cheese on my whoppers. And life is good. So why should I go complain? cause a stir. And that

that is sort of an underlying issue I think, you know, because you know, I mean, when hell, I mean, it's crazy, right? Like, yeah, you should have made fucking 100 motherfucker, but. Yeah. But he's happy. But he's happy

with the 25 or 30 he made, like that's it. Yeah. What do you do, right? How do you get someone like that fired up to say something when he's happy? Yeah. And it is it really wrong if he's happy. You know, I guess that's where the other question is, right? Is it really even wrong? I think there's a pretty easy argument to say it is, yes.

But, you know, yeah. It's a tough one, man. It's a tough one, you know, because like Floyd, when doing that shit, you offer him $5 million. He'd be like, fuck you, bitch. You know what I'm going to go make $100, right? So, yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know what the answer is.

Yeah, there's not a perfect answer. like I said, I mean, you know, it's like, in a weird way, it's like the reverse the Sean Strickland thing. Like, I disagree with 90% of what he says, but every now and again he drops that nugger. I'm like, well, he's got a point. With Ron, I'm like, I don't believe anything she says. And like, right now I'm like skeptical. Like, is she being sincere? But she's not wrong in what she's saying.

She's not wrong, but do I believe she's sincere about it? I know Sean Strickland sincere is a crazy fucker. I know it's sincere. Rhonda, her intentionality, I just don't know. We'll see. Like I said, we got two months to go. I'm sure more press conferences, more interviews. we'll see how she kind of handles this going into it.

And like it or not, we're all going to watch. So she wins anyways, because we're going to watch the fucking fight regardless. So we got USC London this weekend, Matt. And then next weekend, the following week you got Israel out of Sonia Joe Piper in Seattle. But then we also got R.F, man. I'm excited. Georgio Armin 2. And Dylan Danis is wrestling Colby Covington while fucking matches.

I was like, I talked to Ben Asking. I was like, are you sure Dylan's showing up? Like, are you really sure about it? Like, Colby should absolutely ragged all him. in a wrestling match. Like, that shouldn't even be competitive, but what are the chances Dylan goes for a fucking guillotine choke or some shit? Right.

That's probably more likely, yeah. But I'm like, legit excited for that card, man. I'm like, oh, shit, we're going to see some shit pop off in fucking R.F. That's why they're doing it, man. Yeah. I'm more excited. I'm not more excited about the RIF card than I am fucking Auditania Piper. I'm like, we're going to see some shit at RIF.

Plus, Kyle Snyder's wrestling Akam Tadad Tadinoff in a rematch. So I'm, RIF's killed. it, man. They're doing good, man. I love our F. Good for them. It's good stuff. Yeah. On that note, yeah, I'll be going to the high school, Ohio, high state, Ohio State,

High School, Wrestling State Finals tonight. It's supposed to that. It should have had two kids in there, but you know, that's the way things go sometimes. Yeah, well, where can people check out? They want to support you, want to follow on, what else you got going on outside the podcast, including your

own podcast that you do? Yeah, yes, sir. At I am the immortal Instagram and Twitter. The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. Let's go. Absolutely. I want to say a big thank you. Everyone that tunes in each and every week. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts,

Spotify. Of course, over on the best website in the world, mhmapfiting.com. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon, Martin. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything. Like packing a spare stick.

I like to be prepared. That's why I remember 988. suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada.