MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Doesn’t Believe Conor McGregor Will Ever Be a Top 5 Ranked Fighter Again

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with Matt Brown and Damon Martin debating the latest news in MMA including Dana White’s comments about the PFL signing Francis Ngannou. This past weekend, White revealed his thoughts on Ngannou joining the PFL roster after he left the UFC in free agency. White stated emphatically that he didn’t understand the PFL business model as the company signed Ngannou to a very lucrative deal while struggling to earn TV ratings or sell tickets at events. But did the PFL actually make a bad move signing Ngannou in free agency? Plus, we’ll discuss the news that Conor McGregor is officially returning to the UFC’s anti-doping program, which should clear the way for him to face off with Michael Chandler later this year. While Brown admits that he’s still skeptical about McGregor actually fighting again, one thing he’s certain about is the Irish superstar never reaching a championship or even status as a top five ranked fighter in the world again. Finally, we’ll discuss the boxing match between Devin Haney and Vasyl Lomachenko from this past weekend and how we scored the fight. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded

two, ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the writer. I'm your host as always, Damon Martin, and he is the immortal, the CO leader in UFC history.

He is Matt Brown. Matt, what's going on? It's going on, man. everything is. You got the fight layover, the feeling, like after a fight, just kind of like the hangover of all that, going through all the cheeseburgers and all the food and everything. You know,

you still feeling the hangover of that? Yeah, there is a little bit of a hangover because you feel like you don't have a purpose in life all of a sudden. Like you accomplish the mission. And you're like, what do I do with myself now? So, yes,

I've just been eating a lot of really expensive steak, killing that bonus really quick. and some good wine and some, yeah, steak mainly, lobster, sushi, you name it. Yeah, as I said, if you're going to kill a bonus for food, you might as well go all the way, right? You might as well go. If you're going to go, you might as well go all the way.

We got some really good steak restaurants here in Columbus. I think it's maybe a little underrated nationwide, some of the restaurants, Some of the fine foods we have here in the beautiful city of Columbus. What's your favorite steakhouse here? You know what? My favorite steakhouse is Jeff Ruby's. But my favorite steak is the Avenue.

Okay. So the avenue in downtown Dublin, the actual steak, the avenue makes the best steak. But all the sides, the presentation, like the whole experience, Jeff Rubies is better. Okay, I haven't been to Jeff Rubies yet I've been to the avenue I've not been to Jeff Ruby So I have to check that out I know what it is

I just haven't been there I like the The place out in Easton The place has steak and steak and seafood Right there by Easton Mall What's it called? I can't know what's called now I don't know

I don't really eat out there much Theirs is really good too I'll remember the name after the show But yeah There's is really good too It's like you know You don't go there often And then they have

Yeah they have steak and seafood It's really solid So I think you'd like it. I like it. I'm all about a good state. Did I tell you what? I used to go to Vegas. I know you lived in Vegas.

I used to go to Vegas all the time for work when I was at Fox. And we would like we'd have company dinners occasionally where we would go out the whole group. That's actually how I met Nate Diaz's manager was through one of those like random company dinners we had out. And we went to like the really high end steak houses in Vegas. And it was always good. Like it was always really good food. Right. But, like, it didn't blow me.

And when I saw the bill, obviously, I didn't have to pay for it. But, like, when I saw the bill, I was like, my God, this is insane. And then I think about, like, I'm not saying, like, a cheap steakhouse is great. Like, you can get, like, what I'm getting at is you get a good steak, a good dinner for less than $100. You don't need to plop down, you know, freaking $900 on a freaking steak dinner. And I was like, when we sat down to these places, I was like, it's good. Don't get me wrong. It's good.

But everything I got here is not worth the price you're paying. for it. I could 100% go home to Ohio and get the same thing and probably better and pay a whole lot less money. Okay. Yeah, it gets it depends on the steakhouse you're talking about too. Because, I mean, you know, some of these I'll be going to spend you right after a fight. You know, there's $155, maybe $175 steaks. Yeah. I don't think they're much more than that out in Vegas, right? I don't know, man. The places we went, like, they were like, I mean, I can't even get into like the amount of money they paid for these dinners. I mean, it was, it was ridiculous. Like, there's no, there is no world I live in where I would be, like, volunteering to go to that place by myself

or with someone else and pay for a dinner there. I was just, it was so overpriced. So, now, if you're about to compare it to and say, oh, you just go to this outback steakhouse, so Longhorn steak it, me and you're about to have a problem, Dave. No, no, no, I'm not saying. If that's what you're saying, I'm not saying that. Yeah. Okay. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that, like, the price. there were like so exorbitant and like again 100 150 dollars that that's okay what they were charging I was like and I it was good but I was like this isn't this isn't a thousand dollars good like it's not that right it ain't that good I had one out there though first time I ever had a waggoose

steak okay it was a good like I think it was 225 or 254 but it was fucking worth it man like you didn't need a knife. You cut that thing with the fork. Oh, man. I still remember the taste up. But to be fair, it was my first Waggew steak ever. So, you know, it's hard to compare when you never had one before. Yeah, you get $200 steaks. You will be blowing to that bonus real quick. Jeez, man, that's, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, like, I know everyone has different, like, I'm not talking about, like, after a fight, because after the fight, you munched down on Papa John's, because it was the only thing available.

But, like, when you come home, fight weeks over, big win, bank money hits the bank account, bonus, you're feeling good. Is it steak? Is that like the ideal dinner? If you had one thing to pick, would it always be steak? Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, because, like, we don't splurge on, or at least I don't splurge on this fancy stakes all the time. So, but when I get a bonus, I'm going to get a really good steak, a really, really high grade whiskey and, you know, just a glass or two and a really nice cigar.

And it's a great night, man. I'm feeling good, relaxed, enjoying the night. Now, you're from this part of the world in Ohio, so we're close to Kentucky. Have you ever had Pappy Van Winkle? I have not. I've even heard of this. It's like the highest end whiskey ever. like a limited batch every year and they only make so many bottles and they sell it and it's like

the most ridiculously expensive whiskey ever but it's supposed to be amazing it's Kentucky you know Kentucky whiskey it's called Pappy van Winkle and I remember I looked for it forever because I wanted to try I just want to try it I just wanted to like see what it like it would I'm not going to buy a bottle I'm not like we're talking like thousands of dollars for a bottle I was like I ain't going to buy a bottle but I wanted I wanted to try like a drink and I was like I'll plunk down like you know you can go to like a high-end bourbon place and plug down like $75 for a glass or I was like I was willing to go that far as like I wanted to try it and live in Ohio they make it in Kentucky cannot find it anywhere we're not here I went to San Diego on vacation a few years ago and I went to a bourbon bar

it was a super super nice place and even they didn't have it and I was like okay where in the hell can I find this stuff so I've been looking for Pappy Van Winkle for you I don't I don't know if it's good I just hear it's good so I want to try it like I'm like I really want to try a Pappy Van Winkle All right. I'll search for it. You have to text me how you spell that because I have no idea what you're saying. Yeah, Pappy Van Winkle is what it's called. All right. Well, I'll tell you from my experience, like once you reach a certain level of whiskey or rye,

rye is what I like or be bourbon, scotch, whatever, you know, there's like a certain threshold that you meet where after that you're just wasted money. you know what I mean that's true like yeah like you know maybe a $250, $300 bottle any like anything above that is kind of you know you're just buying names you know I mean you're just showing off and stuff like it's all about the same at that point now to be fair I've never had you know the you know two thousand dollar bottles either so you know maybe I'm maybe there's something I'm missing but I know one time I had a glass of wine and the the glass just the glass, you know, just, you know, eight ounces or 10 ounces, whatever it was, was like

$1,200. And it did not taste any, I didn't spend $1,200. Someone else did. But it did not taste better than like regular ass, really good wine. You know, I mean, you could tell it's really good. But I was like, dude, I could definitely drink, you know, a $300 bottle of wine that would taste just as good. I know you were going to say, I drink, I drink wine from a box and it's just as good.

I'm like, oh, whoa. no that that's a bit of a step down there but but like like I say you can tell the difference like box wine and and like good good wine you know I mean like good age stuff but like once you kind of cross that there's a there's a threshold there's a line somewhere in there where like it just doesn't make sense anymore like you get the good stuff it's sort of like your clothes you know what I mean like you get some good quality clothes it's going to last like you don't have to go get, you know, a $1,000 t-shirt. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, you know, $80 t-shirt is going to work just as well as that $100 or $1,000 t-shirt. Yeah, but you know who could afford $1,000 t-shirts, $2,000 bottle of whiskey, $1,000 stakes is a guy by the name of Francis Ingano who just signed a new, you like my, you like my segue there? I like it. Francis and Gano, we didn't get a chance to talk about this last week, of course, because we were talking about your win and coming off the fights.

We didn't get a chance to talk about France. Of course, he signed with the PFL. A big, massive deal. We have to assume it's worth multiple millions. He signed there for a few fights. They are not going to have any influence in his boxing career. He's also getting equity in the company. He's going to be part of the chair and part of the athlete's advisory board.

He's also going to be the new chair of PFL Africa, getting paid a boatload of money. And basically now, of course, he's free and clear and out of the UFC. and what I want to talk about, Matt, because that's a little bit older news now because it happened a little over a week ago. But over the weekend, Dana White finally kind of had his chance to give his take on Francis and the business model that the PFL is getting together.

So I don't know if you heard all this or not, but I want to play you the clip. We'll play the clip. And then we're going to talk about what Dana had to say because a lot of people are saying he's right and a lot of people are saying he's dead wrong. So let's listen to what Dana White had to say about Francis and Gano's New Deal.

with the PFL. And I have no beef with the PFL. I mean, these guys have always been super professional and, you know, never talked any smack. You know me. If I don't like you, whether it's Dale O'Hoyer or another, you know, organization out there or whatever it is, you know, I don't hold back.

I'll let you have it. But, you know, what they're doing makes no sense to me. their business strategy. I'm hearing that they're raising money right now, $280 million, $300 million, I don't know what the number is, from the Middle East. And I've done a lot of business in the Middle East.

Those guys are sharp, and they know what, I don't know who in the hell would give them $280 million because I'm hearing they're buying Bellator. So you're an organization that's burning cash, have no ratings and selling no tickets, and you're going to raise $280 million to buy a company that's burning cash sells no tickets and does no ratings.

It sounds fucking absolutely genius to me. And I don't know. I know how this story ends. I get what Francis is doing. I wish the PFL all the luck in the world. I wish him all the luck in the world. It's just not what we do here. So, Matt, there you go.

Dana being brutally honest, you know, burning cash, not selling tickets, not getting ratings and putting a lot of money into Francis. Of course, we did hear the rumor that PFL is potentially buying Bellator. And I'll say, I don't know for sure if that's true. I do know Bellator has been on the selling block for a long time. That's been a rumor for the last like two years that Bellator is going to be sold. So I'm not even getting into that. But Matt, we never had a chance to react.

So, you know, Francis and Ghana leaves. We know it's a massive deal. We know that there is risk being taken by the PFL. They're investing in arguably the best heavyweight in the sport, but a guy who's not necessarily been a massive draw. You know, Francis has never been as great as he is. And make no mistake, Francis and Gano is a bad, bad motherfucker. The guy's never been like a John Jones. He's never been involved in like a John Jones, Connor McGregor, you know, kind of pay-per-view where he sells like 7,800,000 pay-per-views.

What do you react to, you know, to Dana's words about the PFL and about the risks they're taking with Francis and Gondon? Yeah, that's a tough one, man. Like, you know, that's, that's, that's what they want to do, right? I've heard kind of through the grapevine a little bit, that that's sort of what the PFL is after now. They're like, we're going to go big or we're going to go home. I can't confirm these, you know what I mean? I didn't hear from, like, you know, from a PFL insider or anything.

but I did hear from a reputable source and they said like they're going going home they're going to go for it all and that's what it sounds like right when you hear a deal like that because I heard it long before we heard about this deal and it kind of makes you think maybe that's the case right they're just they're going to throw all their eggs in the baskets and they're going to go for yeah and that's kind of what you got to do at some point in this game right like you know the UFC's got to controlled. They're the top dogs. You know, they're the money makers.

Like, you know, you can sit around and be second, third place for years and years. But, you know, until you take that chance, you take that risk to go for it, you're going to stay there. So I think that's what they're doing. That's, that's kind of what I've gathered. And they were basically willing to bend however they needed to get Francis. And Francis took advantage of that. And, you know, it may very well work out for him. Like you said, he's not a huge draw. So that's kind of, and the problem with him not being a huge draw,

like if Connor went and fought anybody in the world, whether they, they suck or, you know, some B-level guy or some guy he never heard of, like, it's going to sell. I don't know if Francis has that same bullying power

where if he doesn't fight a top, like if he fights John Jones, if he fights, you know, steep A, he fights the top guys. Like, he may not be the biggest draw,

but it's still going to sell. It's still going to make money. it's going to make good money and they get their value. But I just don't know if he's the kind of draw where if he's not, where his opponent, you know, has to be taken into account. Does that make sense? No, it does. And I agree with you there because the problem.

The heavyweight division is shallow at best. You know, like when you look at the UFC, which is the top organization in the world, the heavyweight division doesn't go much farther past than 10. I mean, let's be honest. Let's just be brutally honest. the top 10 heavyweights is about as deep as it goes, right? Like not saying there aren't other heavyweights. I'm saying like if you're talking about legitimately the best of the best,

like we don't know lightweight and bantamweight, you can go 20, 25 deep, easy, and they're still really good guys. Like you could argue Umar and Marg Narragamette is one of the best bantam weights on earth and I think he's rang like ninth or tenth. You know what I mean? Like he's a monster.

And the heavy weights with like if you're good, you get catapulted to that top 10 real quick. Yeah. It's not like there's guys like Umar has how many fights in the UFC now? like six or seven you know something like that yeah and he's still you know whatever you just said he's ranked but he's not you know a big name yet right like if you have six seven fights to the UFC at a heavyweight then you know considering assuming that you're a winner right and you're doing well you know you're in the top 10 for sure yeah so when you look at like this is the here's like

let me get the good and bad side of this the good side is I'm happy for francis it's so rare athlete in this industry can actually have the leverage over an organization. And for once, he did. He had the leverage. He was the guy. He was a champion. He left the UFC as champion. Incredibly marketable guy, incredibly well-spoken guy, inspirational guy, and the guy will send your head into fourth row with one punch. That's exactly the kind of guy you want to go after. And he had all the leverage to say, I want this. I want this. He negotiated his opponent to get a $2 million payday. The first guy the fights was getting a $2 million paid it.

That's insane. And I said this when he signed. A lot of fighters talk about looking out for other fighters and they talk to talk. Francis walked the walk. He wasn't just looking out for himself. He was looking out for the guy he's fighting. So that says a lot. So Francis, I'm happy for him. And in that regard, I wish Dana

would just let it go. He said something to the effect again. Like he could have fought John Jones and he didn't. That's not what he's at. He's risk adverse. And I'm like, Dana, for the three years that John Jones was on the shelf. Francis was trying to fight him. Why didn't you have that said about John Jones? Why didn't you say John Jones is ducking in France? No one's ducking anybody, okay? One guy, John Jones was holding out for more money and Francis was fighting.

Francis wanted more money and now John Jones is fighting. It sucks. It's bad timing, but they're not afraid of each other. Let's just get that out of here right now. So in Francis's case, I'm extremely happy for him. I am over the moon happy for this guy. But if I'm Being honest, the risk for the PFL, the one thing I will say I do slightly agree with Dane on, is when he says you're an organization that's burning cash, you don't sell tickets, and you don't get ratings, and you want to buy Bellator who burns cash, doesn't sell tickets, and doesn't get ratings, seems like a great business plan. The reason why I say I kind of agree with that is because we've seen this over and over and over again in MMA.

Affliction is the perfect case. When they, affliction started, they were paying Tim Sylvia, $900,000 to fight Fador. They had two cards. They're gone. Out of business. PFL has obviously been around a lot longer and they seem to have a lot more financial backing. But at some point, every company that raises $200 million, $300 million, whatever they're raising, at some point the investors want to return on their investment.

And eventually that money is going to run out. And if you're making these kind of investments, I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm just saying the risk is a lot higher for the PFL than it is for Francis. Because if they go under, hypothetically, Francis could still go to, he could still go to Belator. Or maybe, I don't know if Belator is going to be around, but he can go to Belator. He can go to one championship. He can go to BKFC. He can go to other organizations.

He's okay. And he's 36 also. Let's not forget that. Francis is not a young, like he's not 25 doing this. He's 36. You know, he's probably in the last four or five years his career anyways. but for PFL, they're gambling on a guy who hasn't been the biggest draw in a division that is incredibly volatile. There's a reason why no champion in the UFC's ever defended the title more than three times.

And then you're going to ask people to plunk down $50, $60 for a pay-per-view to watch Francis fight. Who's he going to fight? Who's out there? Junior Dos Santos? We could have seen that in the UFC. Junior's not the same guy he was. Who are you going to have him fight? Who are you going to sign?

to have Francis fight this because it can't just be Francis. You just said that, Mali. It's not Connor. Who is France? So the risk for the PFL is so much greater. So I'm way happy for Francis, but we can't ignore the reality for the PFL

that they're taking a massive risk by doing this. Yeah. Again, that's why I started off with what I heard was they're going all in. And I don't know that that's the best way to do it or not, but look, they're taking the risk. You know, it's a business that they're running and they're going for it. And you got to kind of respect that too, right?

I don't know how they got the cash on how they got the investors. I don't know. You know, that's the funny thing. It's like, you know, what they sell these guys on? You know what I mean? Like what were they telling these investors that convinced them? But they did it. So, you know, more power to them, right?

Francis is going to get paid. And like you said, that's the silver lining in the whole thing. Whether the PFL lasts, whether this works. out or not for them. Who knows? Francis is getting his money and some fighter who knows who, but you know,

somebody's going to make two mill also. You know, probably, you know, maybe Junior Dos Santos. I don't know. I mean, it's, it's just, that's about it,

you know, like the fighters are getting paid. So, you know, Francis wins on that end. But how the PFL comes out of this on top, not so sure about that. Yeah, it's just,

it's a, and because this is an, like, I said, I like what PFL's doing. I like that they're paying guys. I mean, but they've already been paying out a million dollars to every division winner for the past three years. So they've handed out like $24, $25 million in prizes just to the winners of their tournaments.

And now they're going to be paying, you know, they're paying Kayla Harrison a million for a fight. They're paying Francis in Ghana. We have to assume $7 or $8 million. I mean, there's no way he took less than that to sign just, you know, if his opponent's getting $2 million, Francis is getting $8. I mean, let's be honest. And then they got Jake Paul on board, too.

I mean, they're not paying these guys peanuts. So, like, is this sustainable long term? And I hate to be the, like, you know, the negative guy. But, like, it's just, it's not. It's never been. So I hope I wish them the absolute best of luck. And I hope they do succeed. I hope they do prove everybody wrong that this was a genius investment.

I hope they do because I love, I love Francis. Francis is a great dude. I couldn't root harder for that guy. but, you know, risk versus reward, is it going to pay off? I don't know. I mean, I have legitimate questions about that. Exactly. When I first heard it, my first thought was this is an announcement that's going to preclude like three or four other big announcements, right?

But there wasn't. You know what I mean? I thought they were going to have, you know, like Tyson Fury is the next to sign. You know what I mean? Like something crazy, you know, something big and crazy was going to happen. and maybe they're going to get into the boxing game a little bit with Jake Paul, right? Maybe sign like a Deonté or maybe a fear, you know, even if it's a fight deal. So here's the deal.

Well, that's the other thing I want to mention. So you know about this. So PFL has nothing to do with his boxing career. Nothing. Nothing. Francis is handling his own boxing career. They're not getting a piece of that pie. So he's going to debut for the PFL in 2024.

He's going to look for a boxing fight until then. That's all on Francis. He owns his, he owns. Jones says that he's his own promoter he can sign me he was talking i heard rumors he was talking to mayweather about maybe promoting with him um and and having that so he could get like going after the wilder the joshua one of those kind of fights but pfl's getting nothing from boxing they are not involved in boxing career yes i didn't know that and that kind of makes it even worse because look and gano's probably not going to look great in boxing right he's not going to fight

some scrub and that's going to make him look great like he's going to fight likely a decent name you know everybody wants to see dionte wilder probably right like he's not going to look great doing it like he's not going to bring you know unless you know he could prove us all wrong too got there look great get a huge knockout or something but the chances of that are pretty slim and gambling on that is not a good gamble and now if he looks bad doing that i mean that affects the mma ratings too right i mean they said he went back to m a may or whatever but that that's not a good look, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's a weird one.

Like I said, and I, again, I want to make it clear, I'm all happy for Francis and, and the PFL was willing to give him things that the UFC wasn't. So I'm glad he stuck to his guns. I'm glad he stood by his morals and what he wanted. And again, I'm glad he got paid. All he's getting paid. I'm glad he's stuck up for his opponent and they're getting paid. I'm glad for all that.

I'm 100% team Francis on this one. But when it comes to the PFL side, I can't not like look at the reality of like, does this pay off of the long term? I don't know. I mean, we've rarely seen any organization built around one guy survive. I mean, that just doesn't typically happen. You know what I mean? Like, you don't get that.

And then the organizations that have gone out and dropped just a ton of money on the bigger name fighters have also folded. Like, it's a, there's no, if there was an easy way to do MMA and make it successful, this is just like any other business. If there's an easy way to make money and people can do it, guess what? There's going to be a million people doing it. But guess what? It's not easy.

There's a reason why the UFC is the only show that stuck around for 20-some odd years because they're the only ones who have really figured it out and people have continued to stick with them for 20 years. Every other organization has come and gone because it's not easy to do this. And I'm not saying I have the answers. I certainly don't. I've been covering the sport for 20 years. I certainly don't have the answers. But I'm saying that that's the problem.

No one seems to. Like, no one really seems to. So I hope PFL has a huge amount of success. I hope they become clear in a way the number of two organization in the world. And I hope Francis becomes a massive star. And he sells a million pay-per-views every time he fights. I wish nothing but the best for that. But the reality is our industry has told us that rarely happens.

You know what I mean? That has rarely happened. And so happy for Francis. I don't know what the business plan here is for the PFL. I just don't. I don't know what they're like. long-term plan is with this. Right.

I don't think I could have said better. You know, like they took a gamble and wouldn't see if it pays off. You know, I think the over-under looks pretty bad for them. Right. That's about all it comes down to, right? It kind of looks bad for them. But you say, you know, good job to Francis, man. Like, you know, how much respect you got to have for that guy, right?

Like, he just, man. You know, because he becomes UFC champion and, you know, fought out his contract, goes and gets a deal like that, you know, like you said, we got to give mad credit to this guy. And, you know, like I said, we hope the best for him. But we're not businessmen, you know, in terms of running MMA promotions and stuff. But it certainly doesn't look good for PFL here. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

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For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Pelop. Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ.

Built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.ca. Yeah. Another big story that came out over the weekend that Dana also talked about, and it seems like it's kind of a, it seems, like it's over now was the whole situation with aljameen sterling he got announced for a fight against Sean o'malley August 19th in boston uh aljo making a pretty quick turnaround fought on may 6th

i believe was the date fought and defeated henry sehudo turned around now three months later he's going to fight shana malady he'd come out in a couple of interviews and his podcast and said that i verbally accepted the fight but i got to make sure my body's okay my hand was a little injured his his bicep was still torn and and and and long story short He put out a poster today saying fights on, you know, we're good to go. But, you know, Dana White had some comments to make about Aljo basically saying that, you know, Aljo, you know, he couldn't understand where Aljo was coming from. And he guaranteed the fights out here. I'll play the clip from Dana because I assume he probably didn't hear it.

But here's what Dana said about Aljo, basically addressing the Aljo situation about Aljo kind of putting doubt in that fight happening in August. Aljo is one of those guys who just can't get out of his own way. You know, apparently he's in for the fight. fight. Why he said that, who knows. It's just, yeah. This is my life, brother. This is my life. But if that fight, the fight is on. Okay, I don't want to. The fight is absolutely positively on. So now, here's the thing, Matt, and the reason I brought this up is this. And because you know this as well as I do. And I don't want to get you like, I don't want to toss you under the bus here, but I'm sure you've seen this or again, from the outside looking and you've seen this. The UFC does something. I don't want to make this clue. The UFC does something when,

and sometimes when they announce fights, is they're putting pressure on a certain fighter to accept. There's two guys in a fight. They may have gotten a verbal agreement from one guy, and they got kind of like a, you know, I might be able to take it on my not, and they announce it. I know for a fact that UFC has announced fights

without even telling one of the fighters. I've had fighters call me and say, how did you get that news? And I'm like, the UFC announced it, man. And they're like, are you kidding me? Like, they didn't even know. So, I, like, to me, Like say Aljo gets in his own way

That drives me insane Because what has Al Jermaine Sterling done But be an incredible champion And I understand Everyone hated him after the Peter Yon thing When he took the knee And he couldn't continue And somehow that's his fault

He had a neck injury He had to get surgery He was out for a while And they crowned an interim champion That pissed everybody off He comes back He beats Peter Yon No one wanted him to win

That pissed everyone off And he goes to beat T.J. Dilleshaw. T.J. doesn't have two working shoulders. That somehow is Al Jermaine's fault. I don't know how, but somehow that's his fault too. And now he comes back, beats Henry Sehudo. Everyone thought Henry Sehudo was going to be the, you know, the uncrowned champion reclaiming his throne. And then Al Jamein beats him, and that somehow pisses off everybody. And now he's turning around and fighting three months later in a fight that he doesn't need to take in three months. They can, they don't need to do this in August. They could easily do this in November or December, but they want to do it now. They need a headliner for the Boston. card and somehow once again Al Jermaine Sterling comes out looking like the bad guy.

Matt, it drives me insane because the UFC, the UFC does this. Let's not deny the UFC does this to put pressure on guys to take fights or do fights at a certain time on their timetable. There's a reason why, a couple years ago, going back to Francis, when Francis beat Stepe, and then they tried to turn him around to fight in September and he said, I'm not doing it. He said, they went to fight in August. He's like, I'm not doing it that soon. And so they crowned an interim champion.

They put Seril gone against Derek Lewis and just crowned an interim champion for no reason whatsoever. They had just got, Francis just got the title three months earlier. And they're like, well, hold on. You can't fight in August? Well, we're going to crown an interim champion for no reason. I know this is stepping on Dynamite 40 Magazine because this is your organization. But, I mean, come on, we see this happening where these guys get pressure put on them. And like I feel like I can't help but feel for a guy like Algebra and Sterling.

What is the guy done to where he's like he can't get out of his own way? What is he doing? He already said he's probably going to take the fight. He's just being honest and saying I'm banged up and I need to let my body heal. Yeah. I don't know. They always been good to me, man. I can't.

There's not a lot like to think that. You know what I mean? Outside of my own personal experience, that always been real fucking good to me, man. But, you know, I don't know what Dana meant when he said that. Like it sounds a little negative. Like, you know, the one thing about Dana is he gets real frustrated with the media right like he you could tell

he doesn't really enjoy talking to the media all the time right sometimes he's just like would you guys shut the fuck up you know what I mean and uh you know any you know I don't I don't like to kind of go with a fine tooth comb through everybody what everybody says you know especially when they talk you know when they're they're having to speak to people as often as like Dana is out there speaking to people he's going to say some shit you know and sometimes it's a little bit emotional so i try not to run into that too much you know and so i don't know exactly what he meant when he said that um but you know who knows what they you know who knows what there's how they're those conversations are going behind closed doors right like that's kind of what it comes down to is like you know is

it could be a lot of different scenarios right like it could be a lot different things maybe aljia just said something to push the button in Dana or maybe it's going great and again Dana was just kind of talking you know I mean I can't really say so like I said I've had great relations with them they've always been cool with me I just

just think that it's like this like because it's this thing with like somehow Aljo like because they like right after this happened what part of the interview I didn't play was that right after there was rumors that Aljo may not be able to fight Henry Sehudo called Dana and's like I'll take the fight with O'Malley I'll take a

he's too much of a pussy to fight, I'll fight. I'm like, come on now. Here's my problem, Matt, is the narrative gets built that somehow Al Jermaine is avoiding a fight. And we talk about just like with the John Jones Francis thing. No one's avoiding a fight. No one. You know what?

I can agree with you on that, especially Al Jermaine versus Sean O'Malley, especially proving like what Al Jamein has already done. Like, I didn't pick him to beat T. Or Yon or Sehudo. You know, I'll come out. right like i would tell aljamaid i didn't pick you to win like you know fucking great job doing it like the whole new level of respect it is hard to believe that sean o'malley is a tougher fight for al jamein

than any of those three fights with all due respect to shot o'malley he's a great fighter but come on like skill skill skill for skill matchup wise you know it's hard to it's hard to push a narrative saying that aljermaine's scared of shon o'malley or doesn't want to fight shan o'mallie when he just beat Henry Sehudo, T.J. Dillashad, Peter, Yon, back to back. Yeah. And I like Sean O'Malley. It's not against Sean O'Malley, but I'm with you. I really like Sean O'Malley, but matchup-wise, come on. Like, it's, you know, it's hard to argue, at least from what we've seen so far. Maybe he's got skills we haven't seen. I mean, he's surprised me too, you know, like he's a, he's a stud. Yeah. I just wish we'd look at it

on paper, like he's a easier fight than those three guys. Yeah, he is. And if I'm, and listen, And, you know, this may all be a moot point because it sure looks like Al Jemaine's going to take the fight. I just, I hate the narratives get built like that. Like somehow he's avoiding it or he's, you know, being wishy-washy on the fight or whatever. I mean, the guy fought in May and you're asking him to fight three months later. Like, couldn't you just wait a little bit? Like, wait. I know you want to make announcements and you got tickets to sell.

I get all that. And I understand there's a business aspect of this. But, like, couldn't you wait like another week? Just make sure he gets doctors clearances and he's healthy before you announce a fight. Like, isn't that, doesn't that seem like the smart thing to do? Because what you don't want to do is announce it. And then the fight falls apart. You know what I mean?

And, like, he was just, and I appreciate Al Jemaine being honest and saying, hey, my hands banged up, my biceps kind of banged up. Like, I just want to make sure. I mean, he fought two weeks ago. You know what I mean? Like, he fought in a five-round fight against Henry Sehuto, one of the best guys of all time. You know, like, can we not, like, rush this dude back in?

And listen, could part of this be on Al Jermaine? I don't know the full story. But if they called Al Jermaine and said, do you want it, can you take it? And he said, yes. And then he's walking it back by saying, well, I do have injuries. I do have this. I do have that. I get that.

I understand the frustration of that from the UFC side. If you said yes, and now you're saying maybe not, I understand the frustration of that. But I'll never understand kind of throwing people under the – Dana didn't full-on throw him under the bus. Let me be clear. He's throwing a lot of people under the bus. Make no mistake about it. Dana has full on truck people under the bus, drove over him and backed up again.

This was not one. I didn't take it as that. He didn't full on just throw Al Jermaine Sterling under the bus. But like these narratives get built up. And like when he said, I know we talked about this on the show before. Like years ago he talked about when Dustin Porrier supposedly turned down a fight with Tony Ferguson on whatever notice. They're like, maybe he just doesn't want to fight Tony. I'm like, Dana, come on.

who test of Porreier really that's the guy who's going to turn down fighting anybody he flew to Abu Dhabi to fight Kabib are you really going to say this guy is afraid of anybody like it's this weird narrative that gets built up and he didn't go full like he didn't go full all the way just again to toss Al Jermaine under the bus but it's just like why just why not just wait a week to make the announcement why not just you know like I understand like and also let's also give credit or credits due with the announcement it came out of the same day as the signing. They wanted to make a big splash. They wanted to kind of take the spotlight from Francis. I get it. But I don't know, man. Like this whole like Al Javings getting in his

own way. How is he getting in his own way? He was injured. Would you like do you like, do you like be personally like when the whole T.J. Dillishaw thing happened and he went in there were two completely ruined shoulders and afterwards said, yeah, I thought I could fight through it. Yeah, but you're going to be pissed off. Be pissed off with a guy like that who went in there fully compromised and knew it and then comes out after saying yeah well i tried my best but my shoulders were all messed up and you're like dude that's the guy you're supposed to get angry with i'm not even saying they should have i'm saying you're going to get angry get angry at that you're really going to get angry with aljo being honest and saying that i just fought two weeks ago and i need a

little bit of time to heal like is that really the worst thing in the world i feel it bro i feel it's like we're coming from uh you know again there's so much stuff it goes on behind the scenes and the talk and stuff that, you know, again, I try not to go through like a fine-tooth comb, you know, like Dana's going to say some stuff, you know, that might be referring to some stuff we don't even know about. So I try not to get, like, too deep on it and, you know, let it be what it is, man. Dana's a promoter.

Aljo's a fighter. If they weren't going back and forth a little bit, then, you know, that would be weird too, right? Like, that needs to, you know, that's standard business practice, right? Yeah, well, it's all, I mean, like, Listen, at the end of the day, maybe this is just drumming up interest in that fight, too. I mean, who knows? Like I said, they could just be like, you know, this is a little bit of back and forth to get people interested.

Because I'm with you when it comes to the fight itself. I like Sean O'Malley very much. I think he's a super talented guy, but I think matchup-wise, Algeman Sterling is a nightmare. That is the last guy you want coming out to. He is just fighting on a crazy level right now, man. He is just firing on all eight cylinders, just looking amazing. You know, even coming off these injuries and, you know, he's had what, neck surgery and just still going out there like beating a guy taking down a guy like

henry sehuto i mean come on man like this guy is just doing amazing things like you got to give all the respect in the world to what he's doing yeah and and again stylistically he should be a nightmare for shana malley i mean this is not the guy shana mally wants to see coming across from like shana malley i always go back to this when i did a breakdown show last year before you were officially on the podcast when we were doing the breakdown for a Peotrion and Sean O'Malley. Anthony Smith co. The show with me and Anthony said, I like Sean O'Malley in this fight because it's the one fight at the top of the Bantanweight division where I feel like he'll have a legitimate advantage because he's so tall, he's so long.

And Peirder Yon is such a short, stocky bantamweight that he'll have that reach and he's going to stay striking. Peter Yon's not going to go for the takedown. He's like, this is one fight that I think O'Malley can win because he's like, I don't think he wants to see a guy like Corey Sanhagen, who is just as tall, just as long, and even nastier of a lot. a striker or a guy like Al Jemey and Sterling who is just as tall, just as long, and a nasty grappler. He's like, those are the guys that O'Malley doesn't want

to see. And that always rings back in my head when I think about this matchup. Of course, Sean O'Malley can win. He's a really good fighter. He could pull off an upset. But stylistically, Sterling is not the guy he wants to fight for the title for five rounds. That is a guy at some point he's going to get, if he can get

Henry Seudo down, he's going to get Sean O'Malley down. And if he gets Sean O'Malley down, Sean O'Malley down, Sean and Malley may not get back up again. Yeah, I'm not sure we'd pick anybody against Al Joe at this point. I mean, I think he's proved himself to be a very, very great champion.

You know, like he is on point. They said firing on all these cylinders. It's hard to pick anybody against him at this point. Would you, this is a bigger topic, and it's harder because it's obviously a subjective question, Matt, but I'm curious. Because Bant's weight hasn't been around as long, so it's harder to, like, even pose this question.

But, like, am I crazy in thinking that Al Jemate is already knocking on the door and be in the goat of this division? Because, you know, Dominic Cruz is out there. Obviously, I think he's kind of the gold standard. And you can say T.J. Dillishaw is the other one who's, you know, title defenses, big wins, those kind of things. But, and Al J.Many's knocking on that door, am I wrong? I mean, you think about beating Piori Yan, beating T.J. Delishaw,

beating Henry Sehudo. And if he can beat Sean O'Malley, like back to back to back. I don't know, man. Like, he might be already there. I'm right there with you it's he's at least you know tied with those guys I mean it's it's hard to say you know the thing with him he's going to have to move up I don't think his body can keep making that weight I think it's a very difficult cup for him I think it's harder than he shows you know he's such a big guy he's going to be moving up and you know of course like with marab coming up like he's going to

want marab to get that chance assuming marab beats I think he's fighting umar right That's the, yeah, Marab, the rumor Marab is going to fight Sehudo and Umar's going to fight Sanhagan is the rumor. Oh, okay. Well, I thought I seen Mara biding Umar, but okay. But either way, you know, I think Al Jermaine has every intention of moving up pretty soon. So that's the only kind of caveat in that, right? You know, one or two more defenses. I mean, he would be a clear, uh, clear goat in that. vision, I think. But he's going to move up, I think, and he's going to fight Volkinovsky, you know, assuming Volcanovsky has a title when he moves up. And that's going to be another great fight, man. I think it's going to be another really, really great fight that I'm excited to see. Yeah, it's interesting because when you think of that run, man, you think about Yon, you think about TJ, you think about Suhudo, and then O'Malley, man, that's a hell

of a run right there for that guy. I mean, again, Al Jermaine Sterling takes so much undue, like, criticism for things that are out of his control. I mean, the whole Piotr-Yon thing, getting knead in the head, like somehow that became his fault. I'll never understand how that's his fault. Like, you know, like, you got need in the head illegally. Yeah, you probably shouldn't continue if he got nearly knocked out and you're half-concussed laying on the ground. You probably shouldn't jump back up and finish. If I don't care how bad the fight was going for you, You didn't need yourself. He needs you in the head.

And yes, Al Jermaine kind of leaned into it and kind of, you know, he started like, you know, basically saying things to piss people off on purpose. But, again, not his fault. And then again, it's just, I think people just keep, honestly, my true opinion to this is this Matt with Al Jermaine. People keep picking against him. And I think it pisses them off that he keeps proving them wrong. Like they're like, okay, this is the one.

This is the one. So who knows back? He's going to beat him. And then he beats them. They're like, damn it. We thought we had it. And to be fair, like, you know, I think a lot of people were pissed because that was when Al Jemain won the title. That was how he won it.

Like, Yon was dominating the fight. And then, you know, Aljo ended up winning the title because of that. You know, whether he played it up or not, you know, people can argue about that. Obviously, I don't think he didn't. I agree with you. He didn't need to, you know, it's ridiculous to expect him to finish the fight regardless. But the fact that he got the title off that, like I think that raised a lot of anger in people. Like, dude, you're not the real champion, you know, because he was losing the fight.

But then he came back and dominated yon in a rematch. So, you know, that took some real skills, some real balls, some real courage. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Before we get out of here, Matt, another big piece of news I want to touch on real quick. Your boy, Connor McGregor, he's getting back in the Usada testing pool. Officially. Officially. According to Usada, they talk to Usada.

I talked to you Sada last week. They said they've been in contact with Connor and he's getting back in the testing pool immediately. Now Dana's talking about December for Connor and Michael Chandler. It looks like it's happening. I know we had to, I'm not going to get in like, I'm not going to rehash Connor, you know, because Connor had a response to you last week,

which was kind of funny. He said the woeful attempt like you were trying to score a fight with him when he's the one who originally mentioned your name, but that's neither here nor there. We talked about on this show a while back, and Matt, you were very honest, and you said, listen,

Connor found a loophole in the USADA system, and he exploited it, and whatever, that's on him, like, good for him. Like, you know, who cares? But it's weird that, like,

this, am I wrong? I think it's just weird this whole thing happened. Like, he just drops out of USADA for a year, a year and a half, and he just jumps,

like, obviously, he's going to undergo testing. He has to be clean for six months. All that kind of stuff has to happen. But it's so bizarre to me that, like, I understand it's Connor. He gets special privileges because he's Connor McGregor. But, like, it's just, again, I don't disagree with you. He found a loophole and he exploited.

Guess what? That's on Usada and the UFC for not fixing that. But it's just so weird to me that, like, oh, yeah, he was probably, I mean, listen, you don't drop out of the Usada pool simply because you don't want to have people come knock on your door at 2 a.m. on a Friday night. You know what I mean? Like, you're doing it because you want to do something. You want to do something illegal.

And you and I both know, Matt, the after effects of that just don't go away. I understand you may not test positive for it, but the after effects of whatever you were doing just doesn't disappear because you're cleaned for six months. It's so bizarre to me that we're about to see Connor McGregor back. And I'm not trying to accuse him of anything, but I guess kind of I am because I'm like, why else would you drop out of the pool for a year and a half unless that's what you're doing? because why else would you do it? Yeah, I think that's exactly right.

And like it's scientifically proven, like the effects last. You know, I mean, like it's not that that's not some debatable thing, right? Like they know that, you know, you will have better everything over time. You know, it's not something that just goes away. So, you know, more power to handle. Again, the problem with the whole thing, in my opinion, is that one of the big problems with Usada altogether is what it does is it fucks the little guy that doesn't have money, right? It helps the guy like Connor McGregor who can afford to beat the test, even when he's in the pool.

Like he's got doctors and shit. He can beat these tests. There's no doubt about it, right? Like it's a cat and mouse game, right? You can see it in every sport across, you know, all different fields. I guess cycling is kind of the one that's most prevalent, right? like, you know, these guys that are wealthy and have the money into it, like they can beat the, the testing.

He found a way where he can not only have to beat the testing, but doesn't even get tested for a year, year and a half. And again, most of us, we can't afford to take a year, year and a half off and at least live well, right? Like we're going to, you know, be struggling by or, you know, it's just different. You know, he could never fight again for the rest of his life and be. fine. So, you know, it'd be wealthier than 90% of us. So, you know, it's the USADA thing. All it really did, in my opinion, from the beginning was it just made it harder for the little guy

and to cheat and easier for the richer guys to cheat. And again, he found a loophole. So more power to him. I'm still going to be surprised if he ever comes back. I'm not 100% convinced that he's going to come back. But it, you know, we'll see. I know he's not going to come back and fight me. I just, I, like, he don't want that smoke. Yeah, that was quick on that one. Yeah, I don't, I just like I said, I don't, I don't disagree with you at all when you said, like, he exploited a loophole good for him.

I don't disagree with you because guess what? That's what, I mean, you know, that's the, that's the system. He didn't, he didn't, he didn't cheat the system. He just, he found a way around the system. And if they're not going to penalize him for that, then that's on them. Like if he can drop out of the USADA testing pool for a year and a half and juice to the gills, if that's what he's doing,

and they're not going to punish him for that, then that's on them. That's not on him, you know what I mean? But the reality is coming back into it, as you said, Matt, the after effects is that just don't go away. And you don't drop out of the USADA testing pool for a year and a half

because you just don't want them knock on your door. That's not, come on now. Like, let's be realistic. There's no way he just did it because it was annoying. You know what I mean? Like, yes, it is annoying. I'm sure it is annoying that you have to update your whereabouts calendar and you have to wait for them to come to your house at 5 o'clock on a Friday morning or, you know, stand outside where you try to figure out how you can pee. I understand that's extremely, I understand that's understandably annoying.

I get all that. But no one's going to drop out of the testing pool for a year and a half for that. You know what I mean? Like you had to be doing something that would have gotten caught during that time where you risk getting caught. And then you get suspended for two years. And you're also right. Listen, this is not, I mean, I'm being honest, like, when Usada first came around, my God, the amount of people getting busted was left and right. I mean, John Jones, Anderson, sell you everyone was getting busted.

And now, when's the last time you heard a marquee fighter get busted by Usana? I'm not even sure last time I heard anybody get busted by Usada. It's not nearly as often as it used to be, but yeah, definitely not a marquee guy. Yeah. So, I mean, and again, you hope that that's, you hope part of that is the deterrent, right? Like, you don't do it because you're, you don't want to get suspended for. for two years. I hope that's a little bit of it. But I think TJ was probably the last big

name I can remember really getting hammered was one when he did the Holy P.O thing a couple years ago. But yeah, like, you're right. Like, if you have a lot of money, and this goes, I mean, this goes across sports in general, football basketball, especially in sports where you get paid a lot more money. I mean, let's be honest. Connor is the unicorn in our sport.

But like, you know, guys like LeBron James have more money than God. They're not running out of money anytime soon. They can, as you said, they're going to be able to skip through the test, or whatever because they're going to have enough high-end doctors, you know, plugging them with whatever they need to get healthy or to stay healthy or to get stronger or stay stronger or whatever. And they're never going to get caught.

But it's just, it's just so weird to me. Like, Conner's like whatever he's been doing. And again, I'm assuming he had to be doing something. I don't know what that something is. I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm just saying that, like, you don't drop out of the pool because you're annoyed. He had to be doing something. and then he's going to come back in and be six months and then fight Chandler.

And as you said, it doesn't just go away. I'm hypothetically, Matt, if he was on steroids, hypothetically, again, let me be clear. Hypothetically, he's on steroids. He stops taking steroids right now. The gains he got from that for the last year and a half don't just disappear, right? Like, they don't just go away. Exactly. And you can Google that.

You know, anyone wants to disagree. You can Google that and figure that out in about, 20 seconds, right? The knowledge is out there. Like, it's easy to find. So, you know, if you want to disagree, don't, don't at me and say a bunch of bullshit that don't make no sense. Like Google, it's really simple stuff.

And, but again, you know, even he's back in the pool or whatever, you know, these guys with the money, you know, they can, they can beat it, man. Like they're not only beat the test, but, you know, take things that are not seen or not even known by yourself. that's why you saw it keeps our blood for like seven years or some shit right so they can go back and test it when they find something that they didn't know about for the past five years because there's always new things coming out you know this is standard stuff you know like this is like you said it's across all sports it's a the steroid testing you know is a debate all in its own whether it should

even be a thing and uh you know if you you can look at something like natural bodybuilding you know it's fucking silly, right? Like, it's ridiculous. Like, they're just doing natural steroids, you know, like, like, or, you know, the SARMs or whatever kind of stupid shit. Like, it's all, it's all really silly, man. And, you know, and you can get into the argument of like, what's a performance enhancing drug versus what's not, you know, like caffeine is performance enhancing. You know, it's like, the whole debate just goes all over the place and it gets really deep. And, you know, so you can't even hate them for. doing what he did. You can't be mad at him, right? He had the money to do it. He had the means to do it.

It was, he got an injury. So he had the time that he was going to be out to do it regardless. So, you know, you can't even get mad at him for doing it. Yeah. I said this. I talked to Benile Dariusi the other day. Obviously, he has a big fight coming up against Charles Oliver in a couple weeks of the OC-289. And he had a different opinion than I did. I said that Conner McGregor is a star. We all know Connor is a star and he's going to continue to be a star. But I said in terms of Connor's future as like a legitimate contender at either lightweight or well-to-weight, I think this fight's probably going to be at well-to-weight assuming it happens with Michael Chandler. And I said this kind of feels like a little bit of a do-or-die moment for Connor in that regard.

Of course, he's a star. He can fight anybody and it's still going to be a draw. But even stars have to win at some point. Like you have to put a winning product on the field for people to still care about you. You can't just continue to lose and lose and lose. And people are still going to plug down $50, $60, $80 to watch your. fight. And I said, I think this is a little bit of a must win for him against Chandler because Chandler's like, you know, number six, number seven in the division. He's not, he's lost to

the two top. He's lost to Justin. He lost to Dustin. He lost to Charles. So he's not like the top guy. But he's right there in the mix. We're not exciting Chandler. He's the guy hits like a truck. Very good fighter. He's been very active. And I said, like, I feel like this is a little bit of a do-or-die moment for Connor because if he loses, that's now three losses in a row. That's four out of his last five, that's all these kind of things mounting. And yes, he could still go out and fight another fight. It's going to be a draw. But in terms of people believing in him that he can come back and be a champion again,

I think that does start to fade and go away a little bit if he loses again. And Benil disagreed. He's like, dude, it's Connor. He can do anything. He's going to come back. He's going to make money. He's going to sell fights. I'm curious your opinion, Matt.

If this fight happens with Michael Chandler, is it do or die for Connor? Because I think, and not saying do or die like he goes away. I'm saying do or die in terms of. at some point there has to reach there has to reach a breaking point where people are going to be like okay Connor's a star we all know that but he's no longer a title contender

he's no longer a championship material and you know what that's okay that's fine I'm just saying like I feel like this is that tantal because this is not the toughest guy in the division it's not the bottom by any Michael Chandler's a damn good fighter this is a serious test

but we also know that Michael is not one of the top three guys You know what I mean? He's not fighting B'Neil. He's not fighting B'Neill. He's not fighting Eichy or Porreyeh, right? Am I wrong? And if we're going to, if we ever want to see Connor McGregory, and also Conner's 34 now, I think, 34, 35. So he's not like in his, he's not 27 anymore.

Am I wrong or is, I don't know. Maybe Benile's right. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm about half and half with each of you. So, you know, I think, you know, if Connor loses his fight, I think he'll certainly never get back to title contention. I think that's going to be just way too uphill of a battle. But he will still be a draw, and it would just be more like, you know, the circus fights,

like, you know, fighting. Maybe it's Nate Diaz, you know, if they ever figure out a way to promote that, you know, between all the different, you know, Nate's a free agent now and all this. You know, or, but I think Connor, like, the way his ego works, like he's going to want to be in the spotlight still, right? Like, he's going to want to do something to keep his. name out there, you know, but will he ever be competitive in the top 10 again? I don't think he will. Period. You know, even if he was to beat Michael Chandler, you know, I still, I still think, you know, at least the top five guys, I don't think he ever beats. And I'm, and I would actually,

if Connor, minus the layover and his mental, like if Connor and his prime, like I would pick him to beat Michael Chandler, I don't, I'm not sure if Connor's actually in his prime. anymore. And, you know, so like I said, I think, you know, he's going to want to be out there, right? He wants his name in the news. He's addicted to that, you know, people loving him and the ego. I think he likes to get in there fighting. But whether he wins or loses, I don't see him in the top five ever again, personally. Yeah, I don't think they might rank him. They might rank him in top five if he beats Michael Chandler. But, you know, he's not a true top five guy. Like, I don't think he beats him. B'Neill I don't think he beats any of the top five guys.

Porre, Gagey, you know, I just don't think he's a top five guy anymore. Yeah, I don't think. And to be fair, also, let me, you know, let me just add one more thing. You know, I was, me and you had our qualms about Connor early on, right? I didn't think he would be his grace he was. But he was a great fighter. Like, I give him credit. Like, he was a great fucking fighter.

And I think he could have done enormous things had he kept his head. head on right and, you know, kept his eyes on the prize. He got, I think he lost track, particularly after the Khabib lost. I think he just completely lost track. Maybe after, maybe after he fought Floyd, I don't know. But at some point, like, I think he completely lost track. And I don't see him coming back to that. I don't see him come, you know, they say it's hard to sleep on silk sheets and go for a

round of five in the morning when you're sleeping on silk sheets. Or they say, you know, you go up the stairs and wooden shoes, you walk down. and silk slippers. So, you know, and I just, I think that's where Connor's at. He's, you know, and I think Chandler's the wrong guy to be fighting, you know, in that position. So I'm going to pick Chandler to win, but I think Connor should with his skill set be able to win. And with that said, he would never be a top five guy regardless, so in my opinion, he'll never beat a top five guy in my opinion.

Yeah, I don't know that you're wrong because I think you mentioned. in the timeline, like when he kind of lost momentum, to me, what killed it was the Mayweather fight, you know? He beat Eddie Alvarez, became a two-division champion. He was on top of the world, man. He, I mean, he styled on Eddie Alvarez. He just styled on and made it look like a pro fighting to rank amateur. Like, it was a mismatch. Like, what in the hell just happened here? Two double champ, all that, and then the Mayweather fight. Now, I certainly don't fault him for going on fighting Floyd Mayweather making $100 million. You would do it. I would do it. I would do it. Anyone in their right mind would do it.

I would fight Francis. They want to give me Francis Ngano's $2 million purse. I'll go out and get my head knocked off by Francis and Gondu tomorrow. I'm not stupid. You're a heavy weight. You're heavy weight. Yeah, a couple of years. Two million dollars.

I'll take that too. But so I'm not faulting Connor for taking $100 million for fighting Floyd. I certainly am not. But the momentum of going from Eddie Alvarez and then basically missing a year and a half of action to do the Floyd fight. And then coming back and fighting a monster like Kabib. Do you realize we're coming up on seven years since Connor beat Eddie Alvarez? That was 2016. Yeah, it's hard.

It's crazy to think, right? Right. Seven years. That's a long time. You know what I mean? Like, I think we, I think we are all guilty of, like, getting lost in, like, because Connor is such

a massive star and he's such a big name. And you're right. He absolutely was a great fighter. And he's still a very good for, don't be wrong. I'm not saying he's not good anymore. I'm just saying, like, time catches up to everyone at some point. And you just wonder, like, you know, while Khabib and Islam and these guys are out there grinding and just, you know, battling their asses off for all these years. Because Connor, for as good as he was, he was never quite like John Jones level or John Jones was just, John Jones was just Demetri Johnson.

Like, just the talent was just off the charts. Like, John Jones is a rare animal who can take off three years and come back and be surreal gone. Like he's still, you know, like that's a rare animal to do that. I mean, by and large, the majority of people can't do that in this sport. To be fair on that point, I mean, you know, even John Jones, you know, he came back after three years and he fought up, you know, not take anything away from Surreal Gaunt, but that is a very favorable matchup for John Jones. Michael Chandler is not a favorable matchup for Connor McGregor after three years off. And now I think, again, in his prime, I think it is actually a should be a good matchup for it. but Chandler's the type of guy, you can't slip.

You know what I'm saying? You cannot fuck up a little bit. Like he will pop you and he will pop you hard in a heartbeat. He is going to come after you. And a lot of those, you know, he's not going to play a technical pitter-patter game with you, like the sparring you've been doing the last three years. He's going to try to rip your fucking head off. He's going to put his fingers in your mouth.

You know, like he's going to he's going to fucking come after you, bro. Yeah. That's a hard thing to come back and fight after three years versus like a guy like either this is where they're now just a little different right with the comparison is a little different where like John Jones you know and I'm not going to I won't take anything away from John Jones either like that's a very commendable thing and go up to heavyweight and beat a you know a top level guy but like all he really had do is you know do what he does take him down and fuck him up but it wasn't it wasn't like uh you know he is different. Well, also, and again, I'm just being honest here, Matt, Connor's not John Jones. You know what I mean? John Jones is a different animal.

And I agree with you. Cyril Gone is it was a stylistic matchup favorable to John Jones, but John Jones, Connor is not John Jones. He never has been. Like, has he been an incredibly talented fighter? Has he been a champion? Has he been great? Absolutely.

But there's, again, there's levels to greatness as well. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, you put John Jones and Demetrius Johnson, that level of talent. They're on a whole other level. everybody that's not an insult to connor that's everybody like they're on a different pedestal than everybody else uh when you talk about the most talented fight but but like but when you say like connor will never be another a top five fight like right now when you look at i don't know the exact

top five rankings but i imagine it's you know it's islam it's benille it's charles olivera it's just engage he's dusta boree do i pick connor to be any of them right now no i don't i just don't and that's not a knock on connor they're just really good good that's exactly even in his prime like those are not like those are like 50 50 fights in connor's prime yeah you know what i'm saying that but now with him coming back after a three-year layoff we don't really know where he's at he's got all this money he's you know who knows how much coke he's doing and how much beer he's drinking or whiskey or whatever right and like those are not good matchups for him like chandler really like that's why they made the chandler fight i think like he matchup-wise

like that is the best matchup for him because chanel is going to most likely he's going to stand in front of them and swing for the fences um i guess gaugy too right gage is going to stand in front and throw for the fences but yeah so that you know i don't know that's it's just it's yeah it's it's it's carter's got a tough road ahead of him man like he'd better be in there doing some of that dagastan grinding you like like he'd better be doing some dirty greening like like he'd better be doing some dirty grimy work in the gym, man. And it's just hard to believe that's what he's doing. I think that's what it comes down to more than anything, right? Like, we don't, we're not in our heads.

Like, Connor is not in a grimy gym fucking getting his ass kick, getting submitted, getting taken down, getting pushed, you know, pushing that extra mile when he's too tired coming in when, you know, we live in a clean life. You know, we're just not seeing that in our heads, right? Yeah, and we're also, and listen, I've said this for a lot of time, I appreciate the loyalty that Connor has shown to his guys and his coaches And this is not a knock on them at all

But you know iron sharpens iron I know it's cliche But like you get better when you surround yourself with the people around you and you wonder like You know would he have benefited from training and just yeah obviously he's not going to train at AKA They're not going to send him out to train with the Khabib because there's just too much bad blood But like wouldn't Connor benefit from going in training an American top team or you know other gym, there's a million gyms, but like gyms where people are really going to push him to get better? Like, are there people around him, like, telling him, like, you know, you need to do this, you need to do that.

And guys who are really, like, is there a day when Conner's not the best guy in his gym? Like, I don't know. Like, I can't answer that question. I don't know that there is. Because you know as well as I do, Khabib, as great as Khabi was, there were days at AKA he was not the best guy in that gym. You know that. There's just too many good guys in that gym where he won.

every single round of every single day. And that's how Khabib and guys like Islam get so good. Because they have so many freaking monsters around them at all time. Usman Nirmagabatov is there. Umar de Maghemadov is there. Daniel Kormier is there. You know, you had John Fitch back in the day.

You had Mike Swick and Josh Koshchek. And like, that's just a room of killers training to get you better every day. And you guarantee you Khabib didn't win every round. That's how he got as good as he was. Are there people around Connor? Like, is Connor ever not the best guy in the room? I feel that.

And even if he was, you know, say Kibibh, even if he was the best guy in the room, was winning every round. He was winning because he had to push himself to his absolute max to win that round. You know what I'm saying? Like he, like, you know, I mean, we don't even know who Connor's training partners are,

you know, so. It's reality. Yeah, you know, he has a, he needs to go, just, you know, my opinion, you know, he needs to. to go to a place like AKA or, you know, someplace that's going to not give a fuck who he is and push him beyond his limit.

And I think he could do great things again. But, you know, like I said before, man, when you're wearing a silk slipper, you're where you're sleeping on silk sheets. It's hard to get up at 5 a.m. and go for a run. Yeah. Go out to Colorado, work in that environment for a little while. Work with those guys out there.

Work at altitude. You know what I mean? I mean, obviously you're not going to train. I mean, he has a body where he could just pay. He could get. you know five or six you know even like 10 guys that are just all savages and just go have a camp in the middle of the woods somewhere where he doesn't have to think about anything turn his phone off and just fucking grind you know yeah but i've done it before one way less money than he has

yes so again i i again i don't think you're wrong i'm glad i feel like we're in agreement on where i was with connor i said this is do or die with him being a chance if he's ever going to be that again and and i don't think he is yeah and it's you know and i guess you have to define what die is like it's not die, right? Yeah, like he's, yeah, I mean, he's still going to be a draw, and they're still going to be, yeah, I don't mean it like that. I mean, he's Connor. Connor's the biggest star in the history of the sport, of course.

People are still going to pay to see him fight. And I said, like, the D.S. fights out there. He could still go, there's other fights out there. There'll be a draw. But he can fight Max Holloway. That's still a big fight. But is he ever going to be, you know, the star and champion again? I don't think so.

I mean, you got, I mean, when you kind of think about it, I was like, you know, how many paper, let's say he loses, it's a Chandler, badly, right? How many pay per views is he going to sell, you know, fighting Max, right? Like, or, or I don't even know who else, you know, like maybe Nate, like, but then it's, you know, now it's just a circus show fight. Yeah, maybe if Tony, Tony Ferguson's out there, that's one they could probably promote. Yeah, and like I said, like, how many paper views is that going to sell, though? Like, you can certainly see it, you know, you know, with, with Connor, what would he be?

like a lost five of his last six at that point. Would that be correct? I believe that's right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, you know, how many pay-per-views are going to say? You see it, you know, on the ESPN fight night main event for sure. It'll never not be a main event in his life.

I'm sure of that. But like, are you going to buy that pay-per-view of him fighting Tony Ferguson or Max Holloway? Like, you know, after losing another fight, like, I would watch it the next morning, right? Which I'll watch most of the next morning anyway. But certain ones I stay up for, like, you know, Haney Lomachinko, I had to stay up for that, you know, like sometimes I got to stay up. Boarding for Flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time.

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Yeah. Speaking of which, we didn't even get to the Haney Lomacheenko. So how'd you scroll? scored. Okay, well, okay, I didn't shit when you were going to go right there. Let's go. Let's get into it.

Come on. How did you score it? I did not score it round by round. I tweeted about this earlier. I'm not sure if everybody quite understood what I was saying. And what I was saying, you know, maybe I need to tweet an even more clear

was if you did not sit down and score, fight that close round by round, you don't have an opinion. because that fight was way too close. You have to look at it round by round live, right? You can't watch it the second time, right? You have to score it round by round live. And who, you know, and that's kind of who would decide the winner.

It's just way too close. But I can tell you, I certainly, again, I enjoy watching it. I don't do the round by round stuff. I didn't read about it or I didn't, I don't like follow on Twitter or anything to see what other people are scoring. But, you know, Max Kellerman's score cards is the only one that I've seen. But I certainly felt like Loma won.

Loma, I believe, proved that he was the better fighter again, which I think he's proven in every single fight that he's been. Even the three that he has now lost, he proved that he was the better fighter. But it doesn't always reflect that way on the scorecards. And unfortunately, he has not been the best at winning rounds, which sometimes he can and what I'm made by that I posted it on Twitter also and people kind of got after me of that they're like well if he didn't win the round he's not the better fighter but

like he loses rounds because he's reading guys and being inactive he's not taking punishment but if he's just simply you know back and off and not being as active then he loses the round and he I think he just does has probably done a few too many of those and I think a big part of that is because he keeps going, he's in a higher weight class than he should be in. Yeah. I think, yeah, I mean, I think when you go back and watch the Tafuma Lopez fight, that's why he lost that fight. He basically sat there and didn't do anything with the first five rounds.

Yeah. Like, that's what happened in that fight. And that's not a knock on Lopez, but that's what happened. Loma didn't fight the first, like, five rounds. He just kind of stood there. Yeah. And when you're down 05 in a 12-round fight, you're fighting an uphill battle at that point. Yeah.

And he wasn't, he wasn't like getting beat in those rounds, but he just didn't do enough to win. Like it's not, it's like he didn't lose the round, but there's no way you could give it to him either because, you know, so technically, yeah, he lost the round. So people like to pick apart your words, right? Technically, he lost the round, but he didn't really lose anything. He's just reading the guy and, you know, anybody that's actually trained, you know, boxing or kickboxing live, like, you know, understands that. He, uh, the night of the fight, I leaned slightly round by round. round, as you said, you didn't do round by round. I went to remember round by round.

I leaned slightly towards Haney. But it was a close fight, and there's no robbery. You know what I mean? There's no robbery. I have zero problem if Loma won the fight. And I don't have a problem that Haney won the fight. It was a close fight. It was a round or two difference.

What was your final scorecard? 1-15-11-13. So one-round difference. It was one-round difference. And I will say the one judge that gave it, I think it was like, was it 111 111 or some shit like that one one scorecard was ridiculous there was one scorecard that was way off there was one scorecard that was way hainy one that many rounds um i think loma had another slow start as you said kind of analyzing you know kind of getting his getting his feeling down that kind of that does come back to bite you when you're scoring in a 12 round fight because if you give up two or three rounds you're behind the eight ball a little bit then you got to make up for lost ground you know what mean so and he doesn't typically loam is not the guy who shows the kind of power who can make up for that with that like he's not the guy typically going out there and knocking guys down multiple times

in a fight so you can get 10 8 rounds like that's typically not his style um so and haini is haini is a really good technical boxer so um i leaned haini i haven't rewatched it to be honest maybe i rewatch it because i had a lot of people i respect say they thought loma won two and i'm like man maybe i need maybe i want to rewatch it because um sometimes when you're watching it's in the heat of the moment it's hard. But yeah, the one thing I'll say is I don't think it's a robbery. I think that one scorecard was terrible. But I think it's not a robbery.

If you would have told me Lomachinko one, I said, great. Okay, I'm fine with that. And I said, I think Haney won. I'm fine with that. Like, it was a close fight. It was 1-15, 113 or 1-14-114. Like, it was one way or the other. It was either a draw or it was one extra round to either guy, in my opinion.

Yeah. I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, so, like, you could have a legit conversation about it. And that was kind of why I tweeted.

That was like so many people say, oh, this guy won or is a robbery or whatever, but they don't even have their own scorecard. They have no idea. You know what I mean? And again, I felt like Loma One watching it. But if I'm not scoring it round by round,

I can't say that, right? Because he certainly won later in the rounds. I thought he landed the bigger shots overall, right? Like he snapped hanging. He's head back multiple times with that. straight left of his that was just on point for most of the night. And it seemed like Loma tried to start earlier, which was the one thing that kind of threw me off a little bit.

Like he seemed like he tried to start earlier, but still couldn't find his rhythm and his real groove, right, until, you know, about the eighth, ninth round. You know, I also wrote, I said, look, you know, to me, he's probably the best fighter of the century. maybe, you know, at least one of the top two or three of the century. And I would argue that like if there was, if these were no time limit matches or no round limit matches, like there's not a guy that he would have lost to.

Like he destroys all of these guys if there's no, no round limit. But it seems like, you know, with that, that, at that 12 or maybe even 15 rounds, if even if it was just 15 rounds, like he probably wins against all these guys. But at that 12 rounds, like, that seems to be right. where he's really coming into his own and really starting to hurt people. And, you know, it's just a little bit too late. And, again, I think if he would go down and wait class again,

you know, I think he'd be back to dominating. But, you know, these guys are so much bigger than him, man. Yeah, and also... He was way bigger than him. He was. And also, you also got to take into account when you're not scoring a round by round, and you're left with the impression of the 10th, 11th, the 12th round,

you think Loma won, because he won the later round. So immediately, because you, again, if you're not scoring a round by round, you're left with the impression the last guy who won one. And Loma won the later part of the fight. So you're kind of like, well, Loma won. And that's why I said, like, round by round, I leaned Haney. But Loma came on at the end and had a better performance at the end of the fight. Like, he had, when Loma won rounds, it was more dominant in those rounds that he won.

But again, we're still going by a 10-9-must system because no one got a knockdown or anything. So that's all you can get. Like, it's a weird, that's what I said. Like Loma had the better rounds, but in my scoring, he didn't win more rounds, which sounds bizarre. But like the three or four rounds that he won were much more lopsided than Haney's rounds. But if you're going by scoring, I gave Haney more overall rounds. So it's just, it's like one of those things. Like I said, that's, I mean, that's, that's scoring.

That's what it is. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying that's what it is. So I'm glad we had this conversation because when people hear this, They can understand how they could see it as feeling like Loma won, but maybe Haney actually won. Again, I'd have to score it round by round to actually make my own decision on. But hearing, you know, you're the first person I've actually met this,

and they scored it for Haney, other than a couple of people on social media who scored it round by round. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But everybody on social media would say it, it's a robbery, it's a robbery, but no one's showing their scorecards. I'm like, all right, like, let's see your score cards. If that's what you're going to, if you're going to make that argument, like, we got to see it.

Yeah, if you're going to tell me, if you're going to tell me at Lomachinko winning 115, 113, I would say, okay, like, okay, I can see that because I scored it 1.15. Yeah, I mean, that's only like two rounds where you're like, you know, one person scored it for Haney, one person scored it for Loma. And that's, you know, that's a, there was a lot of swing rounds in there. Yeah. There was a lot of rounds that could have went either way. and it's really just a matter of what you value more than something else. You know what I mean? And I stand by what I said,

that Loma had the more dominant rounds, so that leaves a bigger impression. Like he had his, the rounds that Loma won were better rounds than the ones than Haney won. But if you're forcing me to score a round, I scored Haney winning around 10-9. He, that's the score. You know what I mean?

But Loma, when he scored a 10-9, it was just a more emphatic 10-9. The problem is it's still a 10-9. You know what I mean? That's a great way to put it. And that's the problem. Like that's really what we come down to here because Loma had the more dominant rounds,

but we're not going by pride scoring. This is not, if you're going by pride scoring, you're saying who had the more dominant performance to fight? Yeah, you're probably right. It probably was Loma. But his four rounds being dominant still didn't trump the other eight rounds that I thought Haney, you know what I mean? Like, that's the problem.

Like, that's what we're talking about here. Right. You only have to win by hair, right? Yeah. All you do is make it 10-9. You don't have to win by a great margin to make it 10-9. and yeah that is another problem even in boxing that's you know one of the issues with the 10-rine system but that's why i've said it um you know after the fight i said look i don't know who won

on the score cards because i didn't score it round but loma is the better fighter like i came away from that fight convinced loma is the better fighter that doesn't mean that you win the fight you know i've felt that way about every single person that loma has fought so far and that's why I argue that he's one of the best boxers of the century. And a lot of people hate on me when I say, I say I'm stupid or whatever. But like,

he is an absolutely amazing boxer and does some amazing and amazing things in there. He's just not the best at winning rounds to get 10-9s. Yeah, I agree. Last question, Matt, real quick before we get out of here. Devin Haney,

Jervante Davis, Shakur Stevenson. Who's the best of those three? Shakur smashes them all, in my opinion. Right now, I think Javante's the best right now, just based off resume, and Javante has the most knockouts. They're all three undefeated.

Jirante has the most knockouts. He's probably looked the best. He's against the highest level of competition so far. But I think Shikor, and it's just a hypothetical guess, you know, like just based off of the knowledge and what I've seen so far. Chachore's levels above all those guys, man.

That guy is a truly special boxer, and I think he's going to be, I think he's going to do amazing, amazing things. I think that guy is levels above all of them. Yeah, I trust your judgment because I don't watch boxing as closely, but after watching Jervante Davis knockout finish Ryan Garcia, everybody was like, dude, and I've watched Shakur Stevenson.

He's super talented. I just, I don't, I haven't followed his entire career, but everyone's just like, oh my God, wait, Shakur Stevenson's coming. And so I had to do a little research, watch some more fights. And I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of seeing what people are seeing in this kid now. You know, because he hasn't had those super high profile fights. But I'm like, yeah, now I'm kind of seeing it.

And I was why I wanted to present it to you is I was like, I wonder if Matt's going to say the same thing. And sure enough, you did. Everyone's really high on Shakuris Stevenson. Yeah, I think Javentay is probably the toughest matchup for him because they're both kind of counter guys. Yeah. And that's what makes interesting. They're both counter guys. So that's a very, very interesting matchup.

I think Haney is not an easy fight for Shikor, but I think it's a, you know, God, I don't know how you say. You know, he's not a winnable fight. It's a winnable fight. It's a very winnable for it. Like, Shakur's going to dominate that fight, I think. You know, at least, you know, it's going to be a,

he's going to win that fight big on the score cards, I think. You know, the biggest problem with Shikor is that he doesn't have much power. So he just, doesn't he doesn't slow guys down well enough um so it's going to be interesting to see you know uh how how he kind of like like because that's jervantes they're they're very different right where like javante that's his thing right like he kind of loses rounds kind of floats by kind of takes it easy and then just pops you once and it's fucking over chakur's more like you know he counters you constantly and you just can't get into him you just can't do anything to him he

keeps you long, you know, on the jab. And then as soon as you throw something, like it just feels like, I'm sure being in there, it feels like every single thing that you throw is a mistake. So it's a very, very different. So the matchups are very interesting. But I think he beats Haney pretty handedly. And then Giovante, I think, is probably going to be his most interesting fight. And that one is one of those that, like, really needs to be broken down to get any sort of prediction.

But, you know, I think Shakur with his link. should be able to win and his linked and his volume should be able to win that fight pretty well also. So I think he's going to dominate him all and he's going to move up and start dominating guys at higher weight classes. There you go. All right. That is our show for this week, Matt.

Obviously, we'll be back next week. No fights this weekend. So we're moving into Memorial Day. And then finally we come back next weekend with some more UFC action moving into a busy June. We'll be jumping in doing some UFC 289 talk, of course. Benile Dereush, take it on Charles Oliver. And of course, Amanda Nunes,

making her return to action against Irene Aldanus. We'll be talking about that coming up. Obviously, I want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes into the fighter versus the writer each and every week. Make sure you check us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. Matt, where can people go if they want to support you? I am the Immortal Instagram, Twitter, at the Immortal Coffee on Instagram and Twitter also. So check it out, the best coffee you ever had, man.

There you go. All right, folks, we're going to get out of here. Enjoy the week. Enjoy a weekend with no feisty geared up because we're going to be busy in June and July. I promise you that much. And thanks for tuning in to another edition of Fighter versus the Writer. We'll see you soon. Fox Media Podcast Network.