MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Explains His Decision to Retire, UFC’s Reaction & What’s Next

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with a special episode as UFC legend Matt Brown discusses his decision to retire from MMA for the first time. With the most knockouts in welterweight history and the second most knockouts in UFC history, Brown etched his name in the record books numerous times over but what led to the timing for his retirement announcement this past Saturday? Brown details when he told the UFC about his retirement and the reaction he received from the promotion. He also explains why he’s really done with fighting and his immediate plans for the future. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster, The Downloaded.

It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible.

I could not think of a better way to kick off the latest episode of the Fighter versus the Rider. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend, Matt Brown, as I always say. But this week, a little special episode because it is the first time we're doing an episode where Matt Brown is now officially retired from the UFC. Matt, big announcement came out a couple days ago.

We always started by playing your intro on the show. What better way to debut it than do it on a day late today? Yeah, so you had to wait to fucking retire to finally do. Is that what I had to do to get my song play? I had to, I had to make sure it was officially done. I'm like, all right, now we can play the fucking intro. You know, we're not going to. Jamie Jas is not going to come after me for copyright.

So I got to, yeah. Yeah, I don't think Jamie. I would imagine he probably appreciates it. I don't know if it's a recording studio, might not, but whatever. They come out for copyright. Like, we'll throw them $100 and tell them fuck off. Yeah, there you go.

There you go. So, of course, the big announcement came out over the weekend. I'm going to, we're going to talk, and I'm going to pretend this was happening because we've talked about this for quite a while, like, beyond, like, when we're not on the air, just talking as friends. I know you've been talking about this for a while.

We've talked many things, so I don't want to divulge information or anything. but of course the news came out on Saturday. Just got to, can you call it? Before we start, I should have just recorded it. We said we should have just recorded this place. Can you tell the world what you were doing when you decided to put the message on on Instagram

that you were retiring from UOC from MMA? Yes, we were just talking about it off there. It was, yeah, I was sitting in my daughter's soccer game. And there was, well, soccer game. She had a doubleheader, but they were an hour, hour and a half apart. and you know me pretty well, Damon. I'm not really the type to sit there and mingle with the soccer moms and soccer dads.

So I'm kind of sitting there by myself for like an hour and a half and thought, you know, I think I need a social media post. How about I make a retirement post and did it right then? And like I said, my phone actually overheated. And since we were just talking about a minute ago, I don't know if that was from the amount of notifications my phone just blew the fuck up uh now it felt it was really surreal man you for you don't realize how many people care about you and how many lives you touched and how many people you inspired um but it was also sitting in 80 degree sun and i kept checking my phone

like why is it ringing again you know i just i didn't really think about it too much which in hindsight was kind of foolish of me but i did i just didn't think anything of it. I was like, I'm just doing a social media post. And maybe it's because it's been on my mind so long that, not so long, but it's been on my mind pretty heavily. And, um, yeah, so I just, I thought to me, I'm like, well, I'm just doing another social media post. And turns out that was a pretty big post. If you, if you know Matt Brown, and I feel like I know you pretty well, that is a very Matt Brown thing to do. That is a very, that is knowing you, that is Matt Brown. Like when you're just like, oh, yeah, I just, really, I text you afterwards, like, right after it.

I was like, dude, like, what's going on here? And, like, it's just out of nowhere. And, like, I was like, what am I thinking of? This is totally what you would do. Like, there's not going to be some grand announcement or like, I'm drawing a press conference to make a major announcement about my career. No, that's just, no, it's, I'm at my daughter's soccer game. Fuck it.

Let's just make a social media post and I'll announce that I'm retiring. And you know what? Looking back on it a little bit, kind of being at my daughter's soccer game probably made that, made me feel a little bit more than you. because like sitting there. I sent a short video to Chal Pisan and today actually for ESPN, he requested it from me. And I was sitting in my daughter's soccer game again.

It's fucking soccer shit. But and one of the things I said to him is, you know, I just feel like I'm in a new season of my life. And sitting in my daughter's soccer game, I'm sitting there healthy. no black eyes, not thinking about, man, I got to go train tonight or or getting up early so I can, you know, lift some weights or go for a run or something. It's like I just had a relaxed day and it kind of just felt different. You know, I was like I was way more engaged with the game, way more engaged with my daughter. Unfortunately, engaged a little bit more mingled with the soccer moms and dads who I love.

but at the same time, you know, just not really my people, but, you know, they're great people, though. And, you know, I think that kind of maybe even actually just kind of triggered it a little bit, to be honest. So I don't want to turn, this is, you know, obviously our podcast and we kind of go back and forth. I don't want to turn this into a full-on interview because, but I think there's going to be a lot of questions people want to know answers to. Because, again, you know, you're an icon of the sport. You've been around forever. When I wrote the article about it, I was like, man, like, even I was like, God, it just seems like, you know, like you've just been a staple of the UFC for so long.

Like, you've been through a lot of stages of the UFC. So even though everyone has to call it a career at some point, like, you're one of those guys where it's almost like, yeah, he'll just fight forever. Like, Matt's just going to fight forever. How far back does a date that this was popped in your head? Because I know, like, you made the announcement, like, and I'm saying this as your friend and as the guy does a podcast again, we've talked about this off the year. I know this wasn't like a snap.

A lot of people assume while the decision to post it on Instagram. through Graham was kind of like in the moment. The contemplation of retirement has happened for a while now. I want to be clear about it because I think a lot of people were just like, oh, he just decided one Saturday afternoon I'm going to retire. I know personally this is dating back a lot further. No, that's exactly right. And I mean, it started dating back a little ways when I kind of started in the last, I don't

know, maybe two, three years when I've really started learning a lot about financial health and how to handle your finances and how to grow businesses and how to grow businesses and how to get wealthy, you know? And, you know, I'm not going to, that's not turning into a fighter pay thing. You know, that kind of is what it is. But there's just other ways to do it. And when you think about a long term, the issue that we run into as fighters is we do get these lump sums and it sounds like a great thing.

You know, say you make $200,000 in a night, right? Obviously, you have to do a whole training camp. You have to build your brand so you can make $200,000, you know, like all those things. But, you know, let's say you make $200,000. Well, if you, that's just short-term thinking. You know, you can make $50,000 over four years. and ideally, you know, you build a job or some sort of source of income where you're making $50,000 a year. And it takes four years to catch up to that one camp that you did.

But it's also going to last another four years too. And then another and then another. So just things like this kind of started popping into my mind. And, you know, I've handled my money pretty well so far. So, you know, I have a lot of things set up. and I've kind of been setting up for this moment for a lot of years, opening my gym, buying Airbnbs, working in real estate, networking, you know, using my brand to meet other people and use that to build my network.

And all it came down to was like, okay, when I can definitely fund a lifestyle post-fighting, then I know that all that all that. I'll at least financially be ready. Now the other side was, okay, now being mentally ready. And keeping it real, like you're never mentally ready. You know, fighting is a drug, a thousand percent. It's an addiction and that high that you get, you know, like when you do cocaine, you get a high the first time, and then you're chasing that high for the midst of the night

and into the morning and then maybe next afternoon. and that can be a big downward spiral. And that's what happens at fighting. You're just chasing that. You know you got it in you to get back to where you once were, your former glory. But do you really have it in you? You know, you constantly think you do, right?

Because you do great in the gym or you're, you know, feeling great, all these different things. But you're just constantly chasing that high again. And that was something. I had a short discussion with Brian Carroll, world record squat, a power lifter, had the world record in the squat for a long time. I think he was the first to do over a thousand pounds, I want to say. And he was talking about that.

He was like, you know, when I stepped away from the sport, I just, I'd just been chasing that squat record for so long. He's like, you're not going to do it again. Like you peaked out. So it's just a drug that you're chasing. Yeah. And I know that. like as a fighter, you know, you, like, when you get offers to fight, like, again,

because I've been around you for many, many years, we go back since the ultimate fighter days, and, like, you would get genuinely excited. Like, when they call you with an offer, you get genuinely excited to fight. But I know in recent years, like, for an example, not to, I know I'm not telling anything out a secret. We've talked about this on the podcast. After you knocked out Court McGee last year, I know you had told me, and I know I'm 99.9% I'm sure you talked about this on the podcast.

was that like you didn't want to fight again over the summer because you had your kids. You wanted to spend time with your kids and do that and like you had things going on with them and so you're like, I'm not going to fight. So like priorities change. Like, you know, 10, 15 years ago, they would have called you and said, okay, you knock out court McGee and May, let's fight again in August. You'd be like, fuck yeah, let's go. But priorities change, things change.

And so your mind changes. It's like when that mentality changes, right, like where your fighting isn't like, not say you don't get excited for it. Obviously, I know you're still a savage. You still love it. but the priorities of your life change where, like, if they call you right now and said, hey, Matt, we got to fight for it. Would you feel the same now that you did five years ago?

And I know that, again, I'm not talking about a turn here. I know that has changed for you a little bit. Just different things happening in your life. No, that's exactly right. And they actually offered me a fight a few months back. And that was exactly what I knew because I got the email. And when I got the email, the first thing across my mind, was like, boy, I could use that money. But I didn't get that chill run down my spine, right?

I didn't take a deep breath. Like, here we fucking go, baby. You know what I mean? And back in the day when I would get that call, I mean, it was usually really quick after, you know, previous bite. You know, my fingers are tingle, you know, and I'd usually go straight to the gym right then. It could be, you know, 10 o'clock at night and like, okay, well, I'm going to the track and I'm going to go to do some sprint. It's like, like I'm ready to fucking go. And I would always over train the first few weeks.

You know, I would go until I was running the fuck down and then, okay, slow down, you know, and then build myself back up. But yeah, so with that said, you know, the feeling wasn't the same as before. So like you said, the priorities change. and when you talk about the priorities change, and that's something I'm going to talk about, I'm going to do a podcast, which we talked about for a long time.

I've used a guest on there regularly. And I'm going to have my own podcast at some point. And, you know, how those priorities change, you know, throughout your life. And one of the things I'll talk about, which would be kind of a deep conversation, really, because I know so many men relate to this, but no one ever talks.

about it is divorce, right? And that changes everything in your life. And I'm not going to get deep into it right now, but when I do a podcast, I do want to touch on that because I think men don't speak out enough about the vulnerabilities and, you know, what we go through. You know, a lot of us hold it in and just want to stand up and act like where the bad is doing the world. but like I already know I'm one of the baddest dudes in the world. So I don't really have no shame. You know what I mean? So I'll just speak it out loud and I don't really give a fuck.

So, you know, so things like that, you know, when you talk about priorities changing is where I'm getting out with that is, you know, kids getting older, you know, you want to be present for your kids. You know, you need to be. That's what your job is as a parent. And it starts becoming about others. and that's just the season of life that I feel like I'm in now, right? When I said, I woke up and what I felt was, was, well, I could use that money.

I'm thinking, well, I could use that money for my kids. You know, like I could set them up with something. Like, I don't give a fuck if I have money or not, you know. But, and that's where you realize, okay, the priorities change. So if I can make money for them in other ways, but be more present for them, then that's a win-win situation for me. Absolutely. And I know that when you talk about, like, when that call comes in and they say,

hey, we got a fight for it and you're not getting that same chill down your spine, that same excitement that you used to get. I know you don't get nearly enough credit for this. And I know you're not like an ego guy, but I'll say this now because we talk a lot. And I say, you don't get nearly enough credit for how smart you are because you read a lot, you study a lot. Like you're a very, very intelligent guy. and you are not, you're not built like a lot of guys where this is all you have, but also, like, you love it, but you're also smart enough to know when that, because, again, I don't want to keep speaking out of turn because we have these conversations privately, but when that call comes in and they say, hey, man, we've got to fight for you. And you don't get that chill down your spine. Right away, you know, you know, something's changed. You know, like, okay, even in that moment, you didn't just say, okay, I'm retiring, like, I'm done right then and there. You gave it some time. But even in that moment,

you don't get that chill anymore, you knew something was changing because that was a constant, right? Like that was pretty much a constant of your entire career. When they would call you and say, hey, Matt, we got to fight for you. You're like, let's fucking go. And when that changes,

you knew the next phase was coming, whether it was three months later, six months later, whatever the timeline was between that call and now when you're saying, I'm done, you know, fighting. You knew something was changing because that was a pivotal moment, right?

Like, that's a huge moment. Yeah, yeah. You know, you know what? that's a great point because what happens is through social media, through all the people that know me, there's an identity built with those people and that feeds your ego, right? Everybody looks up to you as a fighter. Everybody, you know, wants to be around you.

And they build this identity as you are a fighter. And that is who you are. And I think a lot of people don't realize how much more I am than that, right? like I have a lot more pieces to me. I'm much smarter than that. Fighting is a huge part of me, and I'm a fighter in everything that I do, but I just love fighting.

Like I have a true, serious, deep passion for it. There's nothing that I love more than getting into a fist fight or elbow fight even better with someone. Or boy tie fight altogether, right? There's nothing that I love more than that. but there's so much more to me that I have never really expressed. And again, I feel like that's my season of life now. It's time to all those things have been kind of pushed to the side.

And it's so easy to push those things to decide because of this identity built by others. Right. That identity is really not your true identity. Like my identity has a lot of pieces to it. But when you're constantly, barrage by everyone else that that's who you are, it kind of becomes who you are. Yeah, I mean, part of the reason we started doing podcast years ago

was I always said to people and I always knew from knowing you, I was like, Matt's got such a great analytical mind for the sport. Now, what we do on the podcast typically is talk about fighting, of course, so it's still related to fighting, but it's not fighting. You know, it's obviously guys like Daniel Cormier does a show, Michael Bisping doesn't show guys who are retired and don't fight anymore do shows. and that's because they got a mind for fighting. That's part of the reason why I love doing the podcast,

and we've been doing these podcasts for many years now, is because while you are a fighter, you also have a mind for fighting. And so that's part of why I like doing the podcast. It's like, let people know that Matt Brown is just not the guy who goes out there and caves in Diego Sanchez his head with an elbow. He's also a guy who can break down a fight.

He's also a guy who can understand the money side of the sport and the sponsor side of the sport and the mental side of the sport. And that's a big part of why we do this, because I love hearing your side of the sport. of things because, again, I'm not a fighter. I've been around the sport, covered the sport for 20 years. I'm still not a fighter. So I still don't have that perspective.

You have that perspective and a hundred times more, which is, again, a huge part of the reason I love doing this podcast because people kind of get locked into you're just a fighter. You're just a fighter. Even this, what we do right here on this podcast is beyond fighting. You know, like it gives you an outlet where you're not just, oh, I'm Matt Brown, the guy who has the most knockouts in welterweight history, second most knockouts in U.S. All these kind of things.

You become a guy who talks about the sport, knows the sport. talks about the fighters of the sport. That's a different avenue, even though it's still tangentially connected to fighting. It's not fighting. And we talked, it's funny, we did our podcast last week and after we got done rapid, we ended up talking really 25 minutes after the podcast about your house flipping business. Like, you've got other things, other irons in the fire to get you excited now that have nothing to do.

We're talking about flipping houses for like a half hour, never once mentioned fighting whatsoever. But like that's part of it. And of course you own your gym, you're still going to be training guys. You're still going to be running sports. Still going to be doing this podcast. But you have other things. And as you mentioned, like with your kids. Like these are things I remember, I remember specifically having that conversation with you last year after the court McGee fight.

When you said, yeah, I'm not going to fight again until X amount of days or dates or whatever. I came with the exact timelines. You're like, yeah, my kids got stuff going on. I want to spend this some of my kids. Then they got this going on. And I know a lot of fighters who have kids say this is that's time you don't get back. Like you don't, you can't say, oh, you can't say. you know, I'll retire two years from now.

Well, that's two years of football or two years of wrestling or two years of or two years of whatever that you're missing. You're not going to get that back. They're not going to be 12 years old or 9 years old doing that again. They might be 11 or 12 or 13 doing it, but they're not going to be at that age doing it. You miss that time. And fighting, like it or not, is a selfish sport. When you are in training camp and you're getting ready for a fight, there's a certain

level of selfishness you have to have to get ready to go in there and fucking throw down with another dude. Yeah, and the big part when it comes to the kids is, it's not necessarily about the missing things. Because I've never really missed a whole lot. Like I'll just suck it up and, you know, switch my training time and, you know, not get as good a recovery as I should or something. But the bigger part is, again, just about being present with them.

You know, there's so often that, you know, I can't go enjoy a Sunday ice cream with them. You know, now I might go with them and get them ice cream and sit there and watch I'd watch him eat it, which builds character on its own. But, you know, or like playing football in the backyard or throwing a baseball or something. Like my one son, he's huge into golf. And it's like, yeah, I'd love to go do nine with you today. But, you know, I got to train.

And then if I go out there, I'm going to be exhausted the whole time. And I'm not really present. I'm just kind of like dragging my way through it. And that's not being present for your kids. So even if you're actually not missing a lot of things, you know, the actual ability to be present and in the moment with them and interact with them. Again, I think there's different ways guys handle it different ways. There's certainly some really talented guys out there who don't even don't necessarily put in the hours where they're exhausted every day and they still go out and win fights and win championships and shit. Guys like me, I pour it everything that I have.

into this sport. And there was very few days that I wasn't coming home completely shot. Like my mentality has always been, if I'm not crawling off the mats, I didn't push hard enough. So, you know, to try to balance those things, never really worked for me. And, you know, I think that's important in most things that you do. If you want to be highly successful, again, unless you're one of those anomalies,

like a John Jones, you know, who can go do a Coke binge the week before he fights Daniel Cormier, you know, that's an extremely, extremely rare person that can get away with that. And I'm sure he puts in the time, too, though. But, you know, someone like me, I'm crawling off the mats.

And it's like, you're not coming home and, you know, play a monopoly with your kids. You know, you're like, fuck that. I just want to take a shower and lay down.

And, you know, can we just watch a fucking movie again? You guys play on your tablets or something? So that to me is the bigger part of that. Absolutely. And again, I think that's what I think when you talk about fighters, we do tend to lump fighters into one big group and say, well, you're all fighters.

But every fighter is different in how they prepare, how they mentally prepare, how they train. What works for one guy does not work for another guy. I think that has to be said. Like for you, for you to feel ready, for you to feel like you were truly putting everything in to get ready for a fight, you had to be crawling off the mat. Now maybe John Jones doesn't have to do that.

Maybe you can go to the gym for two hours a day, get into good workouts, some sparring, some training, and he's good to go, and that's all he needs. That's good for John Jones. That doesn't mean that's going to work for, that doesn't mean it's going to work for Jim Miller. Or maybe that doesn't work for Josie Alda, who we just saw forever. Everyone's got their own way, you know what I mean? So that's what you need. And to change that is going to be changing who you are. And that's just not, you know, that's like to change that, you would, you, I'm guessing, and I want to speak for you matter.

I'm assuming if you're like, oh, yeah, I'll just stop doing this and I'll be more present for my kids. Then you're going to feel like you're not putting enough into your fight training. Then you're not putting enough into your fight preparation. Then that's going to come back to haunt you. So it's like, one or the other. Something's got to give. Yeah, you called it. And again, you know, anybody who's highly successful or something has made that sacrifice.

Like, I've always believed that, like, I need to go into a fight with no reasonable, logical way. that I didn't put enough to win where you can't logic away that I could have done more, right? And I didn't always do that either, by the way. You know, sometimes, you know, I would take it a little bit easier because of the kids or something, right? And I paid the price for it. You know, I didn't win all my fights. So, you know, there were times that you pay the price for it. But, you know, if you want to be the best and you want to be successful or something,

that's what you got to fucking do. you got to go everything you got and there can't be a real work-life balance that's all bullshit you know you got to give it all your heart and soul and if you don't then someone else will absolutely absolutely so now for the logistics of this as we said i know from knowing you this has been on your mind for a while now for the people out there who are going to ask the question because you know it's going to come up uh so we might as well just answer these questions while we're on the podcast which is again you making the decision to put the tweet, put the message out there on Instagram on Saturday,

was not a snap decision. This wasn't like, oh, I'm hanging around on a Saturday afternoon, and yeah, I'll retire. Again, this has been in the works for a while. And you've had that conversation with the UFC. I don't think I'm speaking out of turn saying, like you've told this, this is not like,

this is not a, I'm retiring on Saturday, and I'm going to book my fight next Wednesday because I'm going to change my mind. Like, this is a conversation. Again, I just want to be clear. Because we, and you know, Matt, we've joked about this on the show before. And we go called the quote-unquote MMA retirement

where it's like, you're kind of retired. I mean, Jose Alda is a great example that. I'm retired, and then, you know, he fought you last weekend. So that's, you know, we're so used to that in the sport. I understand the hesitation to believe it's real. But I know for you, this is something like you've been, you've been at this for a while. This is not like I was sitting in my daughter's soccer game on Saturday

and just decided to retire. This is a conversation about the UFC and things like that as well. Yeah, and the decision to make a post was a snap decision. I wasn't sitting in my daughter's soccer game. I was like, yeah, maybe I can finally post about this. But, and I think that's where I'm different than most other fighters, or at least a lot of other fighters. I don't know about most, but at least a lot is that, again, we were talking about before.

I do feel like I have a lot more to my identity. I have other things that are going to, I'm going to put just as much into, and I'm going to be successful at them. My gym is going to be first thing, right? Like I, and there's a sense of me that's felt like I've kind of failed my employees and my customers at my gym. because I put so much energy into fighting. Like I built this place for them.

And I haven't grown it to the level that it should be at. And it hurts them more than it hurts me because I just go fight and make a paycheck. And I'm like, cool, whatever. But when you talk about, okay, the ability to give your employees raises, right, I need to generate more revenue at the gym to give my customers more amenities. Well, I have to make more revenue at the gym. and, you know, to do things like this, to build other people so they can have careers in the martial arts. I have to make more revenue at the gym, right?

So there's a big part of me that felt like I've kind of let all them down by being a little bit selfish and just pushing myself to go out there and fight again out of, you know, out of that love. And not really for a paycheck. I haven't never really fought for a paycheck, so to speak. but it's you know just that that that love that I have for the sport whereas and that's why I talk about look this is just a new season in my life now it's a different season where now I feel like giving to others right now I'm serving others I'm going to build this gym into a fucking monster and these other all the employees are going to come up they're all going to make more money and they're going to get new cars my the people coming into the gym are going to see a difference

and they're going to get a better experience for what they're paying for. So that's just the season of my life. And again, my identity goes beyond just being a fighter. That's why they say fighters never retire because that's what happens with these guys. They don't have anything else in them. Some of them are just shallow people, right?

Some of them aren't. But they didn't necessarily use their intelligence to build other things. things. And that's something, again, when I have my own podcast, I want to talk about. Like, like, what are some of the things you could be doing as a young fighter or a young athlete, whatever it is that you're doing, or a young person in general, to start building towards a brighter future? And there's a lot of things that, you know, that we, we can be doing. There's a lot of things I wish that I would have done, wish I would have learned earlier. So,

the type of content that I'm going to be making on a podcast and maybe even more of my Instagram and stuff is me speaking to myself 10, 15 years ago. Like, Matt, this is what you should be doing, motherfucker. Yeah. Because I know so many people are in that same situation. I was they're so hungry. And all they can think about is, you know,

I want to be in the UFC and I want to be a fighter and I want to be a world champion and this and that. And they got these big dreams. And that's great. Do that. Put your heart and soul into it and get everything, squeeze all the fucking juice out of it you can. But take a day out of the week, a couple hours out of the week,

start building towards something bigger and better that's going to be sustainable because that's the problem with fighting. Dana said it his damn self. This isn't a career. This is an opportunity. And he's not wrong. Yeah. I had a conversation with Daniel Cormier after he retired.

And Daniel D.C. had said something to me. I don't want to, I don't want to miss quote him, but something to the effect of, he's like, you know, I'll never miss, I'll never not miss that feeling of walking out to the cage. I'll never not miss the crowd. I'll never not miss hearing my walkout song. He's like, there is nothing in this world that feels better than stepping in there and competing against other human being and winning and that just the exhilaration. He's like, you will never feel that again. He's like, and I think he's, again, I don't want to, I'm paraphrasing here, but he was like, that's probably the hardest thing to walk away from because you can't. find that that high in anything else you do. Like there's nothing like it. And for D.C., it went from wrestling to fighting. And, you know, and he reached the highs. He went to the Olympics, became a two division, UFC champion, all those kind of things.

He's like, you can never replace that. But what you have to be ready to do is find other things to get you, you know, to find satisfaction, to find happiness in. And for him, he has a million businesses out there. He obviously does commentary for the UFC. He does his own podcast, does his YouTube channel. he's busy as busy now as he ever was as a fighter. He's just not spending, you know, 12 hours or 10 hours or whatever,

the eight hours a day in the gym, six hours a day in the gym, whatever it is. He's now putting that effort, that energy into all the other things he's building. And he owns businesses and things like that. Similar to Michael Bisping. They had a very similar mindset when they retired, which was, yeah, fighting's done. And to a larger extent, of course, Bisping had to kind of take it away with him with the eye injury and everything. But even that, he was acting, you know, he had other businesses, he made investments. And, of course, he did the commentary thing.

So, like, he had, he had a, I will say a plan B. He had a new plan A. Like, plan A was fighting. He just had a new plan A. And I think that's what gets lost in it. Because, like, I know you well enough to know. Because, and you've had this, like, you have this larger-to-life personality when you step in the cage.

Like, we think of Matt Brown is, like, the fucking savage human being that goes in there. We have that memory of you, Elbow and Diego Sanchez and knocking out Eric Silva, knocking out fucking Cort McGee and all these different. You highlight real things you've done. in your career that we all remember and we envision that we love it we appreciate it but then we forget like oh yeah there's matt brown the dad there's matt brown the podcast those there's matt brown the gym owner there's matt brown the coffee brand owner like so and you set yourself up now to where you'll never you'll i know you'll miss fighting to a certain extent like i know that's always

going to be there for you like there's going to be a time like you're going to go to a card and you're like fuck man i miss this but you've filled your life with enough other things to where it's not going to, like, that's not all you are. And you and I both know this. One mistake a lot of fighters do make is when they retire, they have nothing else. Like, that's all they have. They only had fighting. We can talk about the financial side, of course, too, where like once the money stops,

the money stops, and that is a problem also. But they don't have anything else. Fighting is all they have. That's their only identity. And they can't stay away from it. Then you get guys like, like I said, like Bisping or Daniel Cormey or even a Joe Lozon, who's not really, he does. He's never retired, but he's kind of done with fighting.

He has a very successful gym. He coaches, and he just kind of does his own thing now. That's the big mistake. It's like you don't have that thing. You do. I'm not saying you won't miss fighting. I know you will to a certain extent, but you have other things. Like you set yourself up to where fighting does not have to be your identity now.

No, that's exactly. And when you talk about that high, we're always going to miss that. And that's the drug that we're going to miss. Again, but it's a drug. And it's a one-time thing. you get it maybe what two or three times a year, right? But what I have found to be equally as rewarding is when I walk into my gym and these kids or young kids sometimes,

sometimes actual kids, sometimes teenagers, sometimes even adults, and they come to me and they tell me about how I changed their life with this gym. And so selfishly, Yeah, going in there into a fight and getting that high is the greatest thing ever. But when I, again, I've kind of changed my mindset to serving others and giving to others. And when I see that I've given someone a new life, that's, it's not not the same type of high, but it's, you know, little trickles of a high that equal about the same in the long run, right? you don't get that big burst of a high at one time, like when you step in a cage.

And, you know, I don't know, like the whole, you know, doing it in front of a crowd and all that. That's just an ego thing, I think, and that never really even did much for me. I mean, obviously, like, I love being, you know, in front of the crowd and filling the energy and everything. But, you know, that's just, you know, I think you're just pumped up because all the attention's on you and everything. And that's not really me. And I bet that Joe Lozahn is a great example. I bet Cormeier would feel the same way with his wrestling kids, right? When you see, you know, these kids, especially being, I've had my gym six years now,

you know, seeing these kids that have been there for all six years and the way their lives have changed. And, you know, I look at it as like, you know, I put a fork in the road of their life. you know, like their road was on a straight trajectory on this, on this road. And I created a fork in that. And I took them on a better path. And, you know, that's the most heartwarming thing there is, I think. Absolutely, absolutely. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes.

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Conditions apply. When you told the UFC, what was their reaction? They were shocked, actually. I only talked to one person, but yeah, he was like, he was like, what's going on? Like, what's wrong? He thought, you know, I broke my back or something in a car. I guess. But, yeah, I mean, they were shocked, too.

You know, I think I was shocked. Like, when I first called, Sean Shelby and told him, I'm pretty sure this is what I'm going to do. I was at an airport at the time. And this was not Saturday, just to be clear, like this wasn't like two days ago. This was like earlier.

He was a few months ago. I was at an airport, and I think he returned my call, which is why I was at an airport. And I remember sitting right there in line, getting ready to aboard the plane. And there's, you know, people all over. I was at LAX, I still remember.

And I shed a little tear, bro. You know? And I was like, I was like, damn, I can't be crying in front of people. What if someone recognized me? You know, but, you know, it hurt bad, man. And it was set in my mind. Like, I didn't have any real feelings about it until I actually said it and then I hung up the phone.

And yeah, I shed a motherfucking tear, man. I guess I do have tears in there somewhere. and that was a one time and it was it was very similar yesterday when I posted that I said damn it's it's fucking over man it's surreal bro like it's it's hard to believe because a piece of you dies I told you this privately I'll say it publicly I'm not about saying it publicly when you post that yesterday I read it and like I did the article and then I started getting tagged a lot of stuff because you had tagged me in the post talking about the podcast.

And so people, I was seeing a lot of the responses of like, man, you know, you're a legend. I love watching a fight. And I made by a little post on Twitter saying, you know, one of the reasons every time we start this podcast, I say my name and I say UFC legend Matt Brown because it's exactly what you are a fucking legend. And that's true. I mean, I really do mean that. But I got a little emotional too about it yesterday.

I was like, fuck, man. Like this is like my entire knowing you has been through your fight career. Like we've known each other since 2006, 2005, whatever timeline that was. so almost 20 years of knowing each other. And it's always been your fight career. I've been to a million of your fights. I've been to your fight camps. I've been to your training camps.

When you were in Seattle, we stayed in touch. You were in Vegas. We stayed in telling you. In this entire 20 year span, I don't think we've ever gone more than a few months without at least like a text or like a, you know, what's going on, bro? Like that kind of thing.

And so like when I realized that when it hit me and I saw these messages, I was like, fuck. And I joked me yesterday. I was like, fuck, I'm a roll a tear on the podcast. This fucking sucks. I'm about to get email on the podcast. But I'll say this. 24 hours later as we're thinking as we're talking about it now in a weird way and I'm not saying this because I'm not still like it's kind of weird to think of like you being retired from fighting but I'm weirdly happy for you because as I said last week after we get up to podcast we talked about house flipping for 30 minutes we've talked about your gym we've talked about a lot of things off the air that we don't talk about because it's a fight podcast and you know people would be like what the fuck are you talking about house flipping on a fucking fight podcast but uh we talk about a lot of things and I know you have a lot of other things you want to

to do. And so in a weird way, now that we've kind of talked about on the show, I'm kind of like, you know, I'm kind of happy for you. Because now you get to do other things. You get to be other things. You get to be someone that's not immediately UFC fighter Matt Brown. You know, because that, and I understand why they get to test because it's a very, you're a larger life personality when you fight in the UFC. We just talked about that with how boxing fucks up constantly by not building the personalities as their fighters. But now you get to be other things. Like, I'm excited. Dude, I'm so excited to see what you do in this house flipping business. Like I've been around you and I've seen some.

of the houses like a dude i'm excited for this i know how much you put in your gym we've had this conversation's dozens of times about how you've always said i will end up being a better coach than i was a fighter i'm excited to see how big that gets uh i'm excited to see all the other things you're going to be doing so yeah like in a weird way like while i was very sad and kind of like somber about it yesterday now as we're talking about i'm like fuck man this is excitingly you got a lot of things you're going to be doing now that doesn't necessarily involve you getting punched in the fucking face yeah it's funny sitting here even talking about it right now i mean it's uh my eyes watering up a little bit because this is the first interview I've done about this,

you know, and it just, it's kind of like setting in that this is real, you know, and it's hard to imagine that I'm going to, you know, go on this life and not fight again. Like I thought I was going to, I thought I was going to fight forever too, you know. But like you said, there is so many other people. pieces to me. There's so many other things that I can do in terms of like coaching other fighters. I'm not sure that that just referring specifically to that. I'm not sure that that will ever be as big as I kind of thought that it would before because I know that I am a better coach than I would be a fighter. But that business is a fucking bitch and fighters are a fucking asshole.

And I have found way more fulfillment and helping just that normal. guy, man, that's going through a hard time. And when I say coaching, I mean coaching your gym, not even coaching fighters, just coaching in general, like just being a coach to your kids class. Yeah, things like that, man. It's so much, so much more fulfilling.

But in terms of coaching fighters, basically what I do now is I coach friends. You know, if you're my friend, like I'll tell you everything that I know about fighting and I will give you all the knowledge that you can possibly

handle. Hell, I might even just start posting on Instagram, you know, a lot more content about how to be a better fighter, things like that. But, oh, excuse me. But the actual, you know, turning into like an ATT or Jackson or A.K. or something, like, I just don't even have interest in that anymore. But using the martial arts as a tool to build human beings and build this world into a better place, I think it can go a very long way. And that's one of the reasons I don't get really

heavily into like politics or, you know, the, the weak culture we have and all this shit, which is all, you know, is what it is. But it's like, it's like, what are you doing for to change that shit, right? What are you doing to change your local community? You know, not what are you posted on Instagram to try to get clicks and get people, fired up. It's what are you, you know, are you going to your local community center and helping kids? Are you going to, you know, a gym and teaching a class? And, and that's what I respect, you know, is people doing that. And, and I would say the same, even about politics in general. Everybody wants to bitch and moan about everything. But it's like, you know, are you passing out

flyers? Are you going and talking? Are you campaigning for your local mayor or whatever? And So I don't know, that's a little bit of a side tangent there. But yeah, and that's just where my, again, where the season of my life is now, you know, let's build this local community into the strongest motherfuckers they can be and give people a place to come strengthen their hearts, their souls, and their bodies and their minds. and that's going to be my contribution to the world. And hopefully, through fighting, I have inspired or motivated or inspired or whatever you want to call it, enough people that it makes an impact in the world. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

And of all the things, listen, be honest, Matt, though, of all the things, listen, I know there's going to be things about fighting that you're going to miss, even though, you know, I mean, while you're not fighting, you're still training, you're still becoming a better martial artist, you're just not going and fucking doing it in the octagon, but be honest, you're not going to miss the fucking you saw the person showing up at 3 o'clock at the morning to drug test.

Be honest now, that's like a perk of this retirement, right? Like when you say, retire from you OC, that's a perk is not having the drug test or show up at your gym right after you just took a, you just went to the bathroom, and he's like, yeah, I need a urine instead.

I'd be like, fuck, in a minute, 10 minutes earlier. Yeah, I would make their lives miserable, too. Like, they would show up at 8 in the morning, and I'd be like, oh, I got to go train, so you got to follow me to the gym. and I still don't have to pee, so I'd start training. And it'd be like two hours later. They'd be sitting because they've got to watch you the whole time, you know.

And I'd be like, all right, I'm ready to pee now. But, man, there was only one time they really got me. And that was when I got back from a trip. I forget what I was doing. It took my kids somewhere. I think it went like a fucking pumpkin patch or some stupid shit, you know. And, I mean, who thought I would go to a fucking pumpkin patch? they're homes and you know i come back it's like 11 o'clock at night and i i get home go straight to

the pisser getting ready to go to bed here the knock on the door who the fuck's not going on my door right and there they are said i done emptied my bladder i'm ready to go to bed it took me like two hours to finally have to pee again chugging water finally get enough pee in there because you have to fill it up a certain amount too right is i finally getting up in there and then all night every hour on the hour like clockwork i'm getting up and taking a piss don't sleep at all honestly that was the only bad experience i ever had with them other than that i was like like that one of the things that pisses me off when you're talking about the usada is that you know i never once claimed a supplement they always ask you you know okay what supplements do you take do you need to

claim anything and dude I never once claimed this single thing I was like dude just take my fucking pee and go like I don't I'm not taking shit I'm not worried about it and I never pop for anything and I take all kinds of crazy shit yeah I take some sketchy

fucking something that's I'm that experimenter you know I'm like dude I need to try this like see if it works and I took all kinds of shit I go to fucking G&C and try the sketchy a shit they had never pop once bro so when these people pop and like oh tainted supplement

I'm like sure it happens I'm sure it has happened but I don't go for it yeah but at least you don't have to worry about that anymore that's one positive you're like at least there's no more no more no more drug test are showing up at the gym yeah that's the point you're getting that and that can be annoying but it never really bothered me to be honest and to be honest I think the the perks of it

which is we'd have to do a whole podcast on that it is keeping people clean unless they got enough money to not be clean so there's a there's there's there's like pros and cons to it if you got enough money if you got enough money you can get away with pretty much anything look at it I mean just look at our legal system you got enough money you get away pretty much anything in this country so I'm just saying like I'm not I'm not trying to make some political statement here but you and I both know if you got enough high price lawyers and enough money you can get out of pretty much anything you want to get out of or you

And in this case, you can, you're not going to test positive for something. Trust me. So, yeah. Yeah. Mr. Epstein, he didn't have enough money. Yeah, but that's a whole other, that's a whole other subject with who killed him. Yeah, we don't get off on too far.

You know, again, I know you well, and you probably, I know, again, I know you well, and you probably ain't thought about this, but I'm going to bring it up because I think kind of cool. You realize you're going to go out on a win. You knocked out court McGee in that last fight. Like, at the end of the day, I know, like, because people will think, oh, wow, your fight was basically a year ago when you fought. court McGee you knocked him out um you could have come back and fought 10 more times and

I would have been in your corner every single time and and I'm glad whatever but like it is rare that a guy gets to go out on a win and that it gets to be the last highlight is that moment you knocked out court McGee I'm like yeah it's pretty this pretty fucking cool yeah it's interesting it's it's it's going to be interesting how people look at that when you know I don't know 20 30 years from now or whatever because usually if I if I've looked back in the history books I was he went out on a win. Like something probably happened to him. He probably, you know, died in a car accident or something happened.

And, yeah, it wasn't that case for me. Yeah, but if you see someone that went out on a few losses, like, okay, he figured it out finally and got beat up enough. And that's the standard way that we go out of this sport. And again, it's everybody, you know, that's the, using the drug analogy, that that's right before they go to rehab, right? You know? Like it's not doing what it used to do

and it's starting to really negatively affect your life because you're still chasing at saying fucking high, man. Yeah, well, you know, you know, and one of the reasons why, like, we all have to joke about the MMA retirement is because guys or girls, for that matter,

tend to do it in emotional situations. Right after a fight, a lot, tons of times you're still in the cage. I'm hanging up, lay down the gloves. It's a cool moment. Like, I watch wrestling enough. Like, it's cool when they leave their shoes in the middle of the mat. Like, you know, it's a cool moment when that happens. And we appreciate the photo op and like it's, you know, way you can say goodbye to the crowd. I get all that. But in that emotional moment, like I always, I know I've said this to you,

man. I said, like fighters should have like a five-minute window after every fight to where they can say anything that we can never hold it against them. Because when you're in that, like, I know guys, I've talked to a who don't even remember what they say in that moment. They're just so fucking jazzed up and, you know, pump it with testosterone. They're not even thinking about an adrenaline. They're not thinking about what they just said. Like, who did I call out? What did I just say? I'm just like, so like the fact that like you, you fought court last year, you did other things in your life, you had everything's going on. You kind of saw, you know, time off from fighting where you were doing other things your kids, other businesses, things you were

doing. Full circle. When that call came in, they said, hey, do you want to fight again? You didn't get that electric, you know, the electricity going up to your spine, didn't get that same feeling. And you kind of knew, but you still even then took time because I know that wasn't yesterday's a few months ago. You took time after that. And then, you know, you told the UFC and now, like, and so I think, I think that's like, again, I don't want to speak for it. I kind of pose this as a question more or anything because immediately people are going to be like, well, you retired on Saturday. Is it going to be six months or nine months where you book your next fight? Now, knowing you as well as I do, Matt, I feel like

there is, there is, there is, um, resolve in this decision. This isn't a flippant thing. This isn't like I was sitting around my daughter's soccer meeting and just decided to retire. Yes, that's how you made the announcement. But that's not your decision. decision. I think you're like you are going to have a lot of other things going on. So I hate even use the word retire. I have to use the word retire so people aren't confused when I say you're not retired. You're not retired because you still have 50 other businesses and things you're doing. But as far as fighting goes, I really do believe like fighting is done in that regard. Like I don't think you're the kind of guy who's going to be like six months

from now. I'm like, yeah, I made a bad call. You're doing this. Like you've thought about this. This isn't something you just decided. Like you knocked out court McGee and said, you know what this is cool great crowd big knockout yeah let's just go and call it a career and then you know fucking the phone call comes in three months later and you're like i want to do it again no that's exactly it and i almost i thought about today just going making other post to saying psych bitches i'm coming back like six weeks fuck y'all you know thanks for the attention but um no i you know i thought about it for a long time and i'm pretty clear on it i'm very clear on it um Yeah, the, the reason that it took so long for me to announce it,

the reason it took so long for me to call UFC was just a courage thing, right? Like, again, PCU dies and you got to break off of that identity somehow. And it was just that, you know, growing the balls to do that, man. And it's not an easy thing. Again, when that's your identity and you're like, like, well, who the fuck am I going to be? Like, what am I going to do? So I've basically already been living that next life in this meantime anyway, you know except you know have been in the gym a lot and still training a lot you know

know i still love punching people and getting punched and everything but um you know it just took the courage to do it man that's all it came down to and i think that's why it ended up happening at my daughter's soccer game in the middle of the day where you know i was just bored and was like i need a post i well let's just fucking do it versus you know sitting at home meditating about it ruminating on it and and say, no, fuck that. I'm not doing it now. We'll figure it out later, you know, and just kicking

that can down the road. It's kind of perfect, though, right? Because, like, that moment, I'm sure, in that soccer meet, even though you're fucking roasting and hanging out with, you know, a bunch of Cairns, it was kind of like, that's kind of like the perfect, that's like the perfect, like, analogy of why you're doing this.

Like, these are, like, this is being present, right? Like, you were present for your daughter at a three-hour soccer meet. And, you know, I mean, you're just like, yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Like, these are the things being present for. Yeah, that's so interesting you said. Like today I made a, like I said, I made a video for Cheosan.

And I was way more focused on the game than I had ever been. And it was a great game. And I kind of stopped and I thought to myself, like, how many games like this is she had? You know, I was like really deeply into the game. I thought, dude, how many has she had like this that I just didn't even realize it was happening? Because I'm, you know, I mean, sometimes. like I would take it to a game and I would go for a run or, you know, or, you know, just have my mind elsewhere. So, you know, planning my next training session or whatever it might be. So, yeah,

that's, that hit hard, man, when that happened. Yeah, absolutely. No, it's, like I said, man, that's, again, so when it's say the word retire, not really retired, retired, retired from fighting, but not retired from other things. You've got 50 other things going on. There's always going to be. there's there's like two or three people that ever actually retire and the people it's like a gsp anderson who didn't actually retire he kept fighting um you know Connor could retire if he wanted to John Jones you know there's so few people that can actually like truly retire because to me what retirement means is like you're golfing all day and you're fucking chilling you know you're you're taking care of your garden and your

lawn like that's you it's your biggest worry of the day um we're just moving to a different profession, you know, just making money in different ways. And that's, and that's exactly why I keep saying, look, it's just a different season in my life. It's not, I'm not calling it retirement, at least to me, you know, it's on my Instagram posts, like, or social media posts, I didn't put the word retire anyway.

I said, I'm out. And this is a new season. I'm just doing different things now. Yeah, I have to, like, you have to use the retirement because people are like, he didn't say retirement he's still fighting like no you're not fighting just not retired from working like some people will never retire

from anything like I'll never retire I know me like I'm one of those people I need work like I need to be busy I have a I struggle to relax like I have a problem with that like I struggle to just sit and do nothing I don't like to just sit and do nothing but I hear you want to know when I knew the moment that Matt Brown had fully changed when you become

a different person and a lot of different things have happened in your life but the moment I knew that I was dealing with a totally different Matt Brown was the day you called me and you said, yeah, man, I'm going golfing today. And I was like, what the fuck? Matt's going golfing?

And then I got a photo of you and my buddy lowbrow golfing. I was like, all right, this is, Matt Brown's completely changed. He's not golfing right now. We're in fucking golfing pants and golfing. Like, what's going on here? We're in a polo. Yeah, wearing a polo. Like, who is this?

What's going on? No, that's exactly right. And, uh, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's it, man. You know, so I'm just like I said, move on and it's not retiring. I'm the same as you. Like, I'm never going to truly retire.

I think that's the whole purpose of life, man. Like, like take what I imagine like a beautiful, successful life is, you know, make your perfect day. And then stack as many of those as you can on top of another, right? that's success in life. And to me, that's not sitting around on the beach drinking margaritas. That's not going golfing every day. That's not, you know, sitting around with the HOA people, you know, by condo in Florida. You know, part of my perfect day is working.

You're having a purpose working towards something. And right now my purpose, like I said, it's going to be serving others. So, you know, let's fucking go, man. Let's build some badass shit. and, you know, let's flip some houses, build better communities. Let's build a gym, build stronger people. And I'm pretty stoked for it, to be honest, even though I cry about it a little bit. And enjoy some fucking ice cream every now and again.

Jesus Christ, man, like a little fucking snack every down again, right? I'll tell you what, when I first got off the phone with Sean Shelby and told him I'd retired, I went on a little bench, you know, I put on some pounds, bro, because it was like depression eating, you know, like I was so sad. I was like, I can't believe I'm doing this. Might as well get fat,

you know. But then I'm kind of over that now. And I'm back to, you know, I want to be fucking ripped and rare and raw and rich, man. I love it. And just to be clear for people, we're talking like,

this is a very different episode for us, but you're still going to be doing the podcast. So like it's not like we're not going to be talking about fighting and doing shit like that. And that's part of it. I know, like, again, talking to Corme and Bisfi,

that was a big part of it. Like they weren't fighting, but they still like, fighting so like they didn't stop liking fighting so now they just get to talk about fighting and they get to analyze fighting and so yeah you're still going to be around fighting like it's not like you're going to just disappear on the fucking face of the earth and what was that who was that dude uh oh fuck was a col is a col conrad is that his name the guy who fought he was a wrestler and he fought bellatory he was like their heavyweight champion then he just retired and

just disappeared off the face of the earth remember him i think he wrestled in minnesota am i remember that name kohl conrad right oh he he was belitt was our heavyweight champion he retired and then he just I think he works like the milk industry the dairy industry now so he's like a executive of the dairy company but he just like walked away and we never heard from him again he fell into like the Bermuda triangle

and just like we never heard from him again yeah I know a lot of people like that and you know that's what this podcast will be about right we're just so like keep talking about fighting I still love fighting you know and maybe you know we can get into even more

the technical aspects of fighting that's what I love about it right is the puzzle and the the um what you said the strategy and the tactics i guess what i love about it now the and again i'm i'm going to start my own podcast uh hopefully sooner than later and that way i don't really have to talk about fighting on that you know of course i will everything's going to be analogous to fighting but you know we'll talk about fucking real estate and making money and business and fitness nutrition and uh you know living healthy and, you know, like I was saying before, like men's issues and, you know, I hate even call them issues, but, you know, the things that we deal with is men and how to be a better

man. And, you know, and again, a lot of it's going to be preaching to myself, you know, like, like, what should 20-year-old Matt should have been doing, you know, not drinking and parting. You should add a fucking 43-year-old Matt talking to him. and say and do this and you know and hopefully that that's a powerful thing for people. Does this mean hold on here does this mean that I'm able to drag

you out to more metal concerts now and get you out of the fucking house to go to more metal concerts now because every time I'm like dude there's a show coming up you're like yeah I can't go. Yeah I'll fucking go you're going to the Sonic Temple like I can go to that I'm going to incarceration for sure I'm not sure if I'm going to to Sonic Temple yet I know I'm going to incarceration for sure

because that's July Why? Up in Mansfield? Yeah, so. Yeah, maybe we'll do that. But, you know, my only problem with metal concerts now, I mean, you know, I'm a huge metal hand. I love watches. I'm such a fucking grandpa. Like, I want to sit, you know, either I'm either a pre Madonna, I got to have like a fucking sweet or be side stage, backstage,

or if I'm in the crowd, like, I just want to be in the back and I just want to observe, you know, People watch and observe the fucking, you know, the production and the lighting and the, you know, oh, he missed a note right there. You know, like I'm checking out their performance and shit. And I'm like, I'm like, dude, I could do that on fucking YouTube. Like, why am I out here in 90 degree weather doing his shit? Normally, see, normally I like going to shows. I go to a lot of shows. I went to asking Alexandria here in Columbus last week's good show.

They played with, it was them and Memphis May Eye and a band I like called The Word Alive. And really good show. I never been to the blue, what was it the blue, what's it called the blue? Bluestone. Bluestone. I'd never been to the Blue Stone before here in Columbus. And so church that got converted into a concert hall. I'd never been there before.

Hot as fuck. It was so hot in there. I mean, it was like, it was like had to be 100 degrees. It was so blistering hot in there. But I got in there and I basically walked down. It was a sold out show. And that's, when I see a sold out show, it makes me almost. not want to go to the show because you know when they sell out a show it's fucking crowded

and I got down in the crowd and I stood in the back and I had just enough room to where I didn't have people touching me which that's like a big thing with me I don't want you touching me like I don't want to be bumping up against people and it was fun it was a good show acoustics in the place weren't that great I was kind of bummed like the sound wasn't as good there as it was at some of the other venues here in Columbus but still a fun show but I remember I went and saw bad omens here in Columbus at Kimba Live which for people who aren't from here it's another venue but it was an outdoor show and they have a big giant lawn where you can sit and generally you can be kind of you know even if it's a sold-out show you

got to be there but i like being closer so i got down in the fucking crowd that was like the most social anxiety of dealt with in forever because i was like people bumping into me and fucking walking by me and just it was just but i'm six three so i have like the advantage being able to see over people so i don't mind being like on the ground level i don't need to be like elevated to see the crowd but like that was one show where i was just like at the end i was like i got to get the fuck out of here. Like I'm about to rage and just fucking start throwing elbows

in this place. But generally, I'm like, you know, in the back, I want to be, I want to be close, but not too close. I don't want people touching me. And I want to be able to, like, just focus on the show.

Yeah, I'm the same way, man. I just want to focus on the show. I was just talking to a girl a little bit ago about that. And I'm just such a grandpa with it now, bro. And it doesn't, like, excite me like it used to.

Because I used to go in the mosh pit. I'd have to be right up front I have to You know Didn't even really enjoy the show You know it was like just how fucking rowdy can I get Yeah now it's Now it's about like

Like you know Oh you know he missed that note or you know I like how he's jumping over there How he's holding his guitar you know I'm gonna try that You know it is I feel like said When I do it

Sonic temple got ruined for me Because we went a few years ago When our buddy has all 10 Bathory from five-figure Death Punch got us in and we got to go backstage and we got to go side stage. They had like a little balcony set up so you could stand in the bag of like two rows of people or maybe like 15 people and you're basically staring down onto the stage. And that was like the coolest experience ever. And then like the next year I went because of Inch Sevenfold and Slayer and stuff were playing.

And I was just in the crowd. And I was like, this fucking sucks. Like this isn't fun. Like I'm just in the back of like a football stadium like watching from like a hundred yards away. This isn't fun. So yeah, I'm not a big, I'm not a big festival. guy to begin with, but like that ruined it for me. I'm totally being boozy right now.

I've done ruined it for me. I'm like three feet away from the stage. We're up in our special little section. You know, no one around. We get to go backstage into like air conditioning. And yeah, the next year when I was back in the crowd again, I was like, this sucks. Well, hopefully we get, uh, hopefully I get to Sonic Temple this year and get, get up in the, the media with behind the glass, right?

Like, that's the best spot. And just watch it on the TV. Look it out through the glass and see TV. I sat last year, except for the side stage. I had to go see Avatar, and man, they put on one of the best shows. Like, I want to see them on their own one day because they do the short sets at festivals, which is another reason why the festivals suck. But, dude, I got to see them by themselves sometimes.

They put on a ridiculously good show. There's like 20 bands playing at Sonic Temple this year that I love, but they're all playing the early sets. And I know they're going to play like 20 minutes. Like Machine Head's playing, and I love Machine Head. But, like, a lot of Machine Head's best songs are. 10 minutes long. I know they're not playing the 10 minutes long. I know they're not going to have time to play the 10

minutes long. So I'm kind of like, I don't know. I just like, do I really want to go? Because I'm like, I know what it's going to be like. I know I'm going to get disappointed to see like one of my favorite bands play for like 25 minutes. Yeah, no, same here, man. Like I seen Perfect Circle last year. And they obviously, like, they, Maynard

puts on one of the best shows you could ever imagine. It was like 30 minutes. I was like, dude, they probably took three hours to set this thing up, like all the costumes and everything. And then it played for 30 minutes like it's fucking ridiculous so yeah

but anyway yeah maybe we'll get to do some more shows now maybe we'll see my biggest problem actually beyond even all that is dude I like being in bed at like 930 10 you know like

I like getting up seeing the sunrise getting in the cold plunge from redwood outdoors shameless plug use code immortal 250 to save on that shit. It's badass. I get up the cold plunge at the crack of dawn,

watch the sunrise while I'm sitting in there freezing my balls off. And it's a beautiful thing, man. You know, go check out the garden first day in the morning, see if anything happened. You know, like a little bit of a grandpa, you know? I was there, old fucking man. Jesus Christ, man. Jesus, man.

He's going to bed, fucking early, getting up early? Man, fuck, what's going on there? You got the early bird special over there? What's going on, Matt? It feels good, man. Eating dinner at 2.30 in the afternoon. This is this podcast is the only thing I stand up late for. See, I love it.

I love it. I appreciate that, though. All right. That's our show for this week. Of course, we had to do a special with Matt making the big announcement. Of course, we'll get back to normal stuff, kind of talk about fighting next week and everything else going on. I feel like we need to start doing, like, Matt's metal review on here. We need to start talking more music.

I always like we talk music on here. Well, that's what I'm doing my own podcast for, bro. We'll get you on that. will do the metal show like all the remains had a new single today but you know there's there's always something new coming out man yeah my guys uh in star set from here in columbus oh hi they just dropped a new single too it's actually pretty heavy i was pretty pretty impressed by that so yeah i heard the new one from all the remains too so yeah that's what my podcast is going before bro we can talk about anything anytime that matters i love it i love it all right folks we appreciate

everyone tuning in matt where else obviously again we said yeah a million things going on. Where else can people show support what you got going on beyond uh, beyond fighting now? Uh, ad I in the immortal, Instagram and Twitter, uh,

the immortal Matt Brown on Facebook, the immortal coffee at the immortal coffee. Everywhere you can get on social and yeah, man, you know, check out the best creatine gummies at try underscore create.

And of course I just mentioned it. Redwood Outdoor Sanas, use code Immortal 250, use code immortal for the creatine gummies. We got it all going on, bro. We got a little bit of everything. I love it. We'll be back next week with another edition of the show. Make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast platforms,

Apple Podcasts, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We will see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Podcast Network.

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