MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Explains Why Conor McGregor Still Deserves Criticism for Dropping Out of UFC 303 Even With a Legitimate Injury

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin reacting to the latest news in combat sports including Conor McGregor revealing that a broken toe is ultimately what prevented him from competing at UFC 303. Brown backs McGregor dropping out of the fight with an injury but he explains why the Irish superstar still deserves criticism for his decision. We’ll also discuss his future and when we might actually see him fight Michael Chandler — does it happen before the end of 2024? We’ll also break down the main fights still happening at UFC 303 including Alex Pereira defending his title against Jiri Prochazka and Brian Ortega clashing with Diego Lopes. All this and more on the latest edition of The Fighter vs. The Writer!    Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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visit chase.com slash experiences. Benefits available only to eligible Chase card holders, deposit and credit card products provided by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A, member FDIC. Terms, conditions, restrictions, and limitations apply. podcast network. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin.

He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we're recording this a little earlier in the day than usual. So we're kind of waking up. People are being like, what's going on to you guys? We're like, well, we're still waking up. That's why. Yeah, I'm fitting by wonders why. Yeah, the coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

I thought the rule of thumb once you had kids, that you just like you immediately shift your clock earlier. Like you wake up like 6 a.m. every day. This is why I don't have kids. because I can't handle waking up early in the morning. That's why I just can't do it. Well, my kids are older now. They sleep in later than me.

They'll sleep until noon if I love them. Oh, hey, that's, that is the life of a child right there. It's so funny, when they're young, they don't want to sleep past like 6 a.m. When they get older, they want to sleep until noon. So there's no middle ground with kids. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. But, yeah, I don't know. It's a beautiful morning outside, man, the sun's shining.

to warm out. So I said, I want to have a great fucking morning and there's some good things today and talk about some bad-ass fights coming up. Absolutely. We got UFC 303 this weekend. Absolutely.

We got UFC 303 this weekend, of course. Lots of changes to that card. So we're going to make some picks and predictions on that. But Matt, usually I open the show, like how we catch up, see what else is going on, but there's just so much going on. I feel like we barely have time to do anything this week.

There's just so much happening in the sports. right now and I think at the top of the list it's hard people are like man why do you guys always talk about Connor it's just hard to avoid Connor sometimes and right now it's really unavoidable because last week we talked about his injury falling out of the fight at UFC 303

the speculation like what was the injury we have no idea and by the end of the podcast I was 80 20 you were 90 to see Connor again a couple days later he comes out says in a broken toe that's what led to his decision to drop out of the car and he also said I'm never going to fight injured again.

I'm never going to do that to myself again. It's a different world and I'm not going to do that. So he dropped out. He said August, September maybe. Dana White said, why even talk about it? Until he's ready and ready to fight, we're not going to talk about. We're not going to book anything.

By my estimation, I think the earliest we see Connor is December. But a lot of people have been talking out. Matt, listen, I've been around the sport for 20 years. So I feel like I know the sport pretty well, but I still am not a fighter. So your perspective on these things is so invaluable. which is one of the many reasons I love doing the podcast with you. You've fought, I'm sure, with a lot of injuries during your career.

I know a lot of the personally things you've never revealed, whatever the case may be. When you heard Broken Toe for Connor, what was your initial reaction? You know, unfortunately, the initial reaction was we all remembered him and Jafiard Dals. Right? Like, unfortunately, that was the first thing we thought about. He's realistically looking broken toes. perfectly fine reason to pull out of a fight. Fucking broke a toe sucks.

Bro, it hurts. Yeah, you shouldn't go in with injuries like that. Who knows why it happened, how it happened, the truth behind what's actually going on because I think there's a lot of questions on, you know, how or why or if this actually happened. But let's just assume it is. Look, you're going to go in and fight Michael Chandler

with a broken pinky toe you can't put your weight on it you can't move around you can't do your footwork foolish yeah pull out a fucking fight bro no one's gonna no one with any sense is mad at you other than the fact

that when hafiel dos an an ex-anius did it with an actual broken foot you are a fucking dick about it you know what I mean so you know what goes around comes around right the karma man is real and now Connor's dealing with it.

So if you just kept his mouth shut, you know, I'd be total respect, right? But, you know, you don't talk shit about other people doing it and then you got to do it. Yeah, that's the, I think that's the issue here.

It's not that, like, we're questioning whether or not you should find on a broken toe. It doesn't also, let's be honest, also it doesn't help him. It doesn't help matter as much that he drops out with a broken toe. And then Alex Pereira,

who has two broken toes, still recovering from UFC 300 steps in and it replaces him. It's just like a perfect storm of bad things that happen for Connor right now because we all have good memories. When he initially just said he was injured, RDA put out the tweet just been like, you know, put some ice on it, some IBE Proph because that's what he told him about his broken foot. Now we see the broken toe and RDA has, you know, memes and comments for days, as he should.

He had a legitimate broken foot. Like he had absolutely a broken foot. You cannot fight on a broken foot. You can't. I mean, you get a broken foot in a fight. You might continue the fight, but no one wants to fight with a broken foot. And he mocked him. He mocked him and said he was, you know, he called him every name in the book, said he was a coward, more or less.

You know, why are you dropping out for a pinky? All these different things, you got some swelling. And here we are eight years later, and Connor has a broken toe. Now, again, I'm not a fighter. I can't tell you how good or bad it is to fight in a broken toe. What Alex Pereira is dealing with is different than Connor. Maybe Alex's are middle toes and they're not as badly broken. I don't know.

I'm not going to question a guy who falls out of a Pai Dudo injury, as you said, like that sucks. Like, I'm not going to question that. But we absolutely have to, you know, as you said, like karma, you absolutely have the right to remind Connor of his bad choices eight years ago to mock Haffield Dosayneas for dropping out with a legitimate broken foot. We saw the swelling. We saw the photos and then say, well, I'm out for a broken toe.

People are going to give him shit until he fights again. and I'm not saying it's good or bad, but what I'm saying is you can't get, he can't get mad at that. He did this to somebody else. Absolutely. And the only, one thing I add to is,

the term broken when you're talking about any body part is extremely vague, right? Does that mean like torn tendons, toward ligaments, you know, broken. Is it fractured? Is it a hairline fracture? You know,

it's a very, very vague term. with no actual medical definition. Broken, like, that's not your diagnosis when you leave the doctor. Like, I tore my ACL. It's not like, you know, and I had like a full, I forget their actual medical definition now that I think about it, but, you know, a full ACL test. And like, they don't say you have a broken knee.

Right. But, like, it's, there's a big difference between, you know, do you have a badly stab? stub toe, which could get equally as bruised. Or, you know, is there a torn tendon in there where now you can't move it? And it hurts like fuck to touch it versus, say, a fractured bone, which could still get a lot of, a lot of swelling. but really doesn't hurt nearly as bad unless it gets, you know, stomped on

or, you know, the wrong pressure or something, right? You get what I'm saying? Like, there's a lot of different definitions to that. Yeah. The other side of this that I have to throw out there, and again, you said a broken toe sucks. We're not going to question the injury. If he has a broken toe, we understand, don't fight.

Again, I'm with you. Here's the, and I know this is, this is an opinion question. What is a broken toe? Yeah. Like, I don't. I mean, he showed the x-ray, but I don't know what that. Broken toe means a broken bone, I would assume. Yeah, but if it's a torn ligament or attendant, they'll still say broken toe.

You know what I mean? Like, that's way too vague of a term. Yeah. But here's my question. And again, I know this is going into the realm of conspiracy theory, but I'm going to bring it up because we said, like, part of the reason why we have questioned whether Connor would ever fight again came down to the layoff, the injury, how devastating that injury was coming back from that.

If this was 2016 and Conner's getting ready to fight RDA, hypothetically, or Nate Diaz at the time, and he breaks that same toe. Does he drop out of the fight? I mean, and again, I'm not saying it's wrong that he dropped out of the fight, by the way. Again, I'm a big proponent. Listen, you're injured. It's better to drop out to make excuses afterwards because if you make excuses afterwards, no one's going to listen.

They're going to say, you're just making excuses. Don't tell me about your broken toe a week after you lose versus drop another. You had every option to drop out of the fight. Now, I know everyone's different. But I think the point I'm making, Matt, I'm not saying Conner's like he's bad for doing this. Again, I'm fine with him dropping out of the fight. I don't care. He's injured.

But the Connor of 2016 would not have done this. I don't feel. I feel like he would have actually taped it up and just said, let's go. Now, would that have been right to do that? Probably not. Then you might have the issues. He may have lost that fight. that well, I had a broken toe, whatever the case may be.

But I think when we have to realize, beyond anything else, and again, this isn't wrong, this is just facts of matter. We're dealing with a 20-24 Connor McGregor coming off a massive broken leg that put him out for three years. He's about to be 36 years old. He has to know he's at the tail end of his career. It doesn't mean he can't fight for another three or four years, but he's at the tail end of his career.

And I think even he recognizes how important this moment is, because while he was a little reckless, a little crazy back in the day, because we forget, like, he knocked out Josialdo in December. Now, granted, it was 16 seconds or 13 seconds or whatever it was, but then he turned right around was going to fight in March for the title. So those two title fights basically back to back. I know the one fight went rapid fire. It was over boom, boom, boom, and done.

But still, you just went through an eight, ten week camp or whatever. You turn right around, you're fighting March. I mean, that's not easy to do. But I think we've got to get the reality. This isn't the counter that we all knew from those days. I think people kind of, people just want that. that Connor back so badly that they're just like, this is Connor, he's back.

That Connor's gone, and he's never coming back. Because that Connor wasn't 35 years old. That Connor wasn't coming off a broken leg. That Connor wasn't one in three in his last four fights. We are dealing with a different animal now, and that's okay. But I think we've got to keep in perspective what Connor McGregor we're talking about. And that one and three in his last four is the biggest part of that whole thing. you know if he was in this situation

but he was coming off of a four fight win streak I think this whole conversation would be totally different but coming on one you know one and three in his last four I mean he's right fucking don't go in there unless you're 100% right like why would you take that risk yeah and and we've talked about many times here about the at least I have

about the ego that he has and that he needs to be fulfilled when he goes in and fights. You know, I mean, that's why he's coming back to fight is an ego thing. And the last thing he can do is risk that being touched up. If he goes in there and gets his ass,

well, which he might, he's going to go. He will need rehab after. that. Like, he's going to go off, you know he's going to go off the, the, he's going to dive in the snow, right? He's going to go ski. Yeah.

Well, and I think, like, we have to remember that, you know, this is, I think Connor, you know, Connor acknowledging that, like, I'm not fighting injured anymore. I'm not doing it to myself. And again, I don't fault anyone for doing that. Listen, we all know fighters get banged up in camps and things happen. I understand that you're tired. Whatever the case, I get it. I get that part of it.

But I would never tell anyone you should go in there with the torn meniscus, or you should go in there with a broken foot, or you should go in there with a broken hand. These are all decisions you shouldn't. Like, you should take that into account before you fight at any point, whether you're a champion or you're 1 and O in the UFC or you're on a four-fight losing streak. If you're really damaged and can't, you know,

you're not fighting to your fullest ability. You have no chance to fight at your fullest ability. Don't do it. And Connor, while he's not best known as a kicker, he does kick and it's on the same leg as the broken leg. So that's the leg. He's already going to be a little, probably imagine you have to be a little bit trepidious about throwing, just like we saw

Chris Wyden. That's just one more ailment. So now you've got to deal with the broken leg. Now you've got a broken toe on that same leg. I get it. I'm not doing it. But again, I get you got to deal with all that. And you got to deal with Michael Chan. Yeah. Yeah. And I think to me that was probably the biggest part of that

whole thing was like, do you deal with Michael Chan? Like, you got to have some footwork. You know what I mean? Like you can't, you don't want to stand in the pocket and just swing with Michael Chandler, unless you're a Max Holloway. But that's not a great game plan for Connor. You've got to move your feet. And this takes away from that. Yeah, but I think we're,

while Connor would never say it, but you acknowledge it right there. I think you're absolutely right. We talk about the one in three in the last four or five. So I think Connor knows it is kind of do or die for him. Like he cannot afford to go out and get smoked by Michael Chandler and then expect people to still believe that Connor McGregor is ever going to be Connor McGregor again. Everyone, every massive Connor McGregor fan hopes that he can get back to the form and become a lightweight champion again.

Now, I know you said openly, first of all, you question whether he'll fight again, but you said openly he'll never be a champion again. I agree with you. When you look at the land of the land of lightweight, how much different it is, the guys that are there right now, it would be a really, really tough road to see Connor ever sniffing a title again in the UFC during his career. But that's okay. He doesn't need a title. He's accomplished all that. He can just be the guy who gets big, massive fights down. That's totally fine. but at some point winning matters you know what I mean like you can't keep telling people I'm Connor McGreg I'm the biggest superstar in the sport pay $90 to watch me fight and all these things and you're one and four one and five at some point people are going to tune out because they're going to realize you're not the same guy and so I think these are all things that have to have played into his mind and again I'm fine with it but people are going to remind you what you said in 2016

what you said I mean he said about RDA but he said about other guys as well you and I both know There's been a million examples of Connor ripping guys for dropping out of fights because he was never that guy. The reality, though, is Connor's not that guy anymore either. Connor's not that dude from 8 years ago who was the best lightweight and best featherweight in the world. He's a 35-year-old guy coming off a broken leg on a 1-and-3 record, and he knows if he doesn't beat Michael Chandler, it doesn't all go away. He's still a massive star. He can still do boxing other things. But any hope of him sniffing relevancy as far as like an actual legitimate consideration.

that's gone. Yeah, and realistically, if he loses to Michael Chandler, like his money fights from here on out would be the Jake Paul's, the fucking, the side show shit, you know what I mean?

Like maybe, maybe like a Max Holloway or something, you know what I mean? But like, not, you know, top 10, I mean, not the Max Holloway, not top 10, how would you say it like a fight that's going to get you to a title shot right it's just just a a single fight at a time um

the set to make money right yeah sell fights you to sell big fights they're not going to be meaningful fights that's what i was getting that never have a meaningful fight again yeah yeah that's reality so are we changing our opinion all now that we know the injury do we still have the same opinion connor never fights again or you're you're you're fairly confident he ever fights again because at this point I think I said on another podcast I did yesterday December I know it sounds like the UFC's not going to add another card just to appease Connor at least that's what it sounds like and I laid out the the plan right now just so everyone knows July is Manchester that's set August is Perth in Australia that's out of Sanja that's set

September in the sphere I just don't think they're going to do Connor on that car they're making a big deal about Mexican Independence Day I think that's going to be max holloway and Ilya also in Valentina Shepchinko. October is Abu Dhabi, which we assume is going to be Islam again, probably Aram and Saruki. In November, we know is John Jones-Stepe.

So December is what we're looking at. December is probably most likely when Connor could come back. More or less confident now that we actually see him this year. The problem with the whole situation is, like, when you talk about a million times, this sport moves too fast. Like, do they need Connor anymore?

Like, what value? does he bring at this point? Like they've been pumping them up for three years now, and he hasn't stepped in there and fought. So it's like, at what point did they just move on? And it was interesting to hear Dana say that, you know,

kind of similar when he, I don't remember his exact quote, but he was like, he didn't sound so confident. That was the first time I heard any lack of confidence in data, which made it pretty interesting. Yeah, it's interesting times.

And, yeah, Like I said, man, it's, you know, and I listen, if Connor never fights again, he's secured a pretty damn good legacy, first ever two simultaneous two division champion, became the biggest star in the sport, made all the money in the world. And unlike Rhonda Rousey, which we talked about before, Connor is mostly beloved. Like, I mean, I'm not saying Connor doesn't have his detractors, he certainly does, but there's still a whole lot of people in the world who love Connor. When Rhonda left, I felt like everyone was done with Rhonda, but Connor still has a huge band base. If he never fights again, I'm fine with that if he does fight again. Again, my worry is he fights for the wrong reason.

He's like, I got to prove everybody wrong. I got to come back. I don't know if that's really the right reason. But yeah, I'm with you. Like I said, we'll see, Dana. I do actually appreciate that Dana's just like, we're not even going to talk about this until he's 100% healthy and he's actually ready to go.

I'm not speculating on him being back in August September. It's the end of June. He's saying this broken toe is so bad he can't fight on June 29th. Why are we even contemplating him fighting a month or half from now? That's August. A month and a half from now. Like, no. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a little funny. Yeah, so no, let's just not, no. Defenders in cybersecurity are always there when we need them. They should get a parade every time they block a novel threat and have streets, sandwiches, and babies named in their honor. But most of all, they deserve AI cybersecurity that can stop novel threats before they become breaches across email, clouds, networks, and more.

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They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer ecosystem. U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf. It's weird. We're talking about, like, we, in reality, we did not question. Now that we know the injury, we're not faulting Connor for dropping another fight. You get a broken toe, dude.

It's totally fine. So is Alex Pereer? Is he making the right decision to take this short notice fight? with two broken toes. He's been on a media tour. He was out in Australia teaching seminars. And he takes this short notice five with Yuri Parashka. Some people are just that guy, that dude.

We understand that. The way some guys are built, they'll just take these fights. And I'm sure he's being compensated. I'm sure the UFC threw a bag of money at him to do it. But is Alex making a potentially wrong decision doing this on short notice? Or are we just like, dude, this is a guy. Like he's eight, nine fights into his UFC career as a two division champion. He's a Hall of Fame already.

I mean, he's like, let's be. be honest, he's going to go in the U.S. the All of Fame. Is he making the right move taking this fight on short notice? Well, Yuri's taking it on short notice too, so I don't know. Why not? But the only question is, you know, does he actually have, this is exactly what saying when we talk about broken bones and shit. Like, there's so many definitions of broken.

That doesn't mean like a broken bone. Like it's tendons, ligaments. Like you can have sprains and people be like, oh, it's broken, you know? Like, it's a very, very, very, very vague definition of an injury. So I don't know what the extent of his injury is, but there's like a little bit of footage of him here and there on the internet of him sparring. It looks like you're moving fine. So, but, man, I've always said, like, you know, Yuri is always an X factor.

He's always that guy that's got a chance, man. So, you know, yeah. Yeah, that's a tough call, but you can't give enough props to Alex Breyer. Like, what a fucking savage dude, man. He's got to be one of the most beloved fighters in the UFC now because, you know, he doesn't talk shit. He's humble. He's quiet. He's got the look.

He's fucking savage motherfucker. And he goes in there and gets the fucking job done. And he says all the right things, too. You know, he's always respectful. But he's also, you know, he's not putting up with any shit either. Like if, you know, if someone says something disrespectful to him, he has the right thing to say back. I mean, he's just every single star has aligned for him. So we're going to see if that street keeps going now, right, with taking this fight with Yuri.

Yeah, and also you got to remember the short notice for him is different than Connor because he's also not coming back from a three-year-long layoff and a broken leg on top of the broken toes. You know, so there's little things like, you know, the broken toe is different, you know, so. Yeah, three-year-long layoff. off shooting a movie, the cocaine, the alcohol. Yeah, there's a lot more to it. But here's the thing, and I've said this a million times, and you know this, I've said this on the show a million times. We should applaud the fighters who take short notice fights.

They do, they're the fucking man. We never should knock someone for not taking a short notice fight. You know, if you don't take a dude, that's the sport. Like, you're a professional. We can't give you a hell for not taking a fight on a week's notice or two weeks' notice. I totally understand that. But I tell you what, and I say this, I say this knowing Connor McGregor is the biggest star in the sport.

He is, we all acknowledge that. We know this is anytime Connor fights, it's a big deal. But now we get Alex Pereira, Yuri Perhoshka, one of the highest level fights you can get in this sport. Two absolute beasts right now in the prime of their career. We get Brian Ortega and Diego Lopez, which might be my favorite fight on the card now, because that's a really interesting matchup.

Diego's been on a fucking run, and Brian looked great against Shia Rodriguez last time out, man. and he looked fantastic. Got to win there. Then you get Anthony Smith against Roman to Leeds. Of course, it's a little disappointing. We don't get the Carlos Olberg fight, but Romans is a savage.

He's a good striker, stepping up and fighting Anthony Smith, who we know is old school savage. I love that fight. And then Ian Machado, Gary, and Michael Venn and Page, it may be a staring contest for three rounds. We're not totally sure, but it could be a really fun, you know, dynamic striking match. So, like, and I know I'm not,

I don't want disrespect Maer, Buenos Silva, but Mesa's Chazon, who the other fight on the card, they're kind of like the opposite. person out here. But those four fights, I would argue, is a better overall card than getting just Connor McGregor and Michael Chandler. I know that like Jamal Hill

and Carlos Alberg was a really interesting fight. I was in for that. But I think adding that one extra fight, adding that Diego Lopez, Brian Ortega fight, I would say this is actually a better card now. I would agree 1,000 percent. This card is freaking great now.

I didn't even know that other fight was on the card. But Yeah, those four, I mean, you could have said about the Ian Gary MVP fight could go down. Like it's going to be a high-level striking match. Does that mean it's a chess match or does that mean it's a brutal war? It could go one way or another, right? But that's a awesome test for both of those guys. And like you said, Brian Ortega, Diego Lopez, Lord knows how that's going to go down.

like, you know, this would definitely be Diego's biggest test. Well, we know what Brian O'Tegu can do, right? So, yeah. Yeah, what a great fight, man. So, and then with Anthony Smith, I mean, it's interesting that you call him old school. I guess he's been around a lot longer than I remember, huh? Yeah, he's got like 55 fights, something like that. How long has he been in the UFC, though?

I want to say he's had two stints to the UFC. He was in the UFC, he left and came back. So I want to say total overall, maybe a decade, give or take, like right around that, like right around that time. So, yeah. It just keeps reminding me like how old I am. Like how long I've been to the UFC.

It's like, you know, everything is based on my own timeline in my head where like I was in the UFC for a long time before Anthony Smith was. And I'm like, my damn. And he's old school. And I was in the UFC long before him. I'm like way old school. Yeah, I always say old school with Anthony because every time I talk to Anthony, we've talked about like he has those great regional fight stories,

like the ones where he talks about, like, fighting into dog cages like you did, where like the actual cage is just what bought from Home Depot and fighting. I mean, I think you told me one time he fought outside that was raining, and so the entire cage was just like a slippery mud pit. And so, like, that doesn't, I'm not saying it doesn't still happen. You can go to some pretty shoddy promotions and still get that. but, you know, the days of those, you know, they're not, they're not as popular or as regular as they used to be.

But, yeah, I mean, he's in his later 30s. He's been around since, you know, 2000, early, mid-2000s when he started fighting. He's got 50-some-odd-plus fight. So that's kind of like that last the dying breed. Now, by the way, that's not a bad thing to where we've moved into a world where guys don't fight in fucking Home Depot cages and fight outside with fucking mud and slop in the middle of the cage. but yeah I think that's a good thing by the way but like that's we're kind of getting that tail into the last few guys who actually fought during those days

when things were a little more outlaw yeah I miss those days person bro I love that shit yeah I don't know how popular they ever were but because I don't know how many times I'd be fighting those small little promotions and there's like 20 people there but to you it's a biggest show on earth

yeah absolutely absolutely let's talk we're going to do some picks and predictions with this card. You talked about Ian Machado, Gary, and MVP Michael Benapage, high-level striking. I think we all know how good that fight could be. I think my worry is is because they're both really good counter-strikers.

They're long and they're rangery. I feel like we could fall into a fight where it's a three-round contest where there's like 19 total strikes thrown because neither guy wants to make that mistake. You know, we've seen those high-level striking affairs turn into that where, you know, the guys just don't want to engage out of danger

of giving the other guy a chance to hit them. But it's really intriguing because, you know, like I said, I have a lot of criticisms of Michael Vennon Page. I do think that he got spoon-fed a lot of easier competition when he was in Bellator. And then when he got against the tougher competition, he wasn't nearly the same guy. And I'm not saying that's bad because when you fight higher-level competition,

it's going to be tougher. But the highlight real knockouts came against the guys who probably were not on his level. When he got in there, did he still win fights? Absolutely. He still won fights at the other level. but he's not going to go in there, put on these dazzling performances and score these, you know,

skull-crushing knockouts like he did against Cyborg, you know, several years ago. And I am Achado Gary, you could argue he's kind of gone on the same thing. Like, he was killing guys early on, knocking people out looking great. His last couple of fights have been kind of like, all right, you know, like,

do you remember the Jeff Neal fight? Do you have any big memories of that fight? Do you have any big memories of, you know, like he hasn't been as, he hasn't been as dynamic because he's getting higher-level competition. So I love this fight. I just don't know what we're going to get. Yeah, well, you know, Jeff Neal is a tough guy for anybody, so, you know, I kind of get that.

But, you know, I really think that Ian Machado, I've been pretty big fan of his for a long time. I love the way he fights. And I think he's really going to shine in this fight. I think it might take time for him to find the rhythm and timing of MVP because MVP is an odd guy and is hard to find training partners to simulate him. It's the type of style that if you're not used to it, then, you know, there's a lot to figure out there. But I do think that he's going to figure it out. I think he's got better fundamentals.

And I think he's got a better just overall style to win this fight. So I think it might take a little bit of time. But I think if MVP is going to be the one that really decides whether this fight becomes a barn burner or becomes a, you know, kind of a staring contest. because I think Ian can probably stay ahead on the scorecards. The whole fight, and MVP can allow that, you know, so he doesn't take any big risk or he can start to press action and give himself a chance of victory. Yeah, I think I like Ian Machado-Garry very much.

I think he is that talented. I think he is that good. And I think he is a real threat to the division, especially if you stay striking with him. So I'm going to go with him too. I'm going to go with him as well because he negates a lot of what MVP does well, which is that long, tall, rangey striker. Well, Ian's just as long.

He's just as tall. He's just as rangey. He's just as good as a striker. And he's younger. I mean, let's be honest. You know, MVP's 37. Ian Gary's 25, 26. You know, I think Ian Gary's in a good position to win this fight.

I think Ian Gary's going to be a tough out for anybody in the division. I'm not saying he's going to lose these fights. I'm just saying, like, the fights that I'm really most curious about it when he goes in there against a high-level grappler who just doesn't want to play that game with him, who won't stand and trade with him, and he gets in there with a Sean Brady, he gets in there with a Shavkat, Rakhmanov, he gets in there.

Colby, he gets into Bilal, guys who are going to pressure him, guys who are not going to give him distance to work. That's, I think, we're going to find out more about him in a weird way. This is another fight that should, and again, MVP's a very good striker. I want to be clear about that.

But this is another fight that kind of goes into what he does well, a guy who's going to stand and trade with him. So he doesn't have to worry about the takedown. He doesn't have to worry about the grappling. He doesn't have to worry about, you know, defending off his, back or getting up off the cage, all these kind of things. He can just go in there and fight his fight.

So I like Ian Gary to win this fight, but I'll be really intrigued when he goes in there against a high-level grappler, and we see the difference of how he fights those guys. And then I think we'll know, is this guy a future champion, or is he going to be just a really good contender? And by the way, either option is fine. Some guys never get the title. It doesn't mean they're not great contenders.

They're not great fighters. He's just made it very clear he wants to be a champion. So I don't think we're going to learn anything new necessarily about Ian. and Gary in this fight, but I do think he will win. Yeah, I guess exactly right. And I agree. It's going to be interested watching him go up, you know, assuming that he wins this fight, which, you know, again, I think he will, but watching him go up and he's had the

ballads, the Colby's, the, you know, the Sean Brady's, those types. That's a, those are tough out for guys that are great grapplers. So, you know, when you're a striker coming in there and that's your game playing, I mean, it's a big mountain to climb. And I don't know what kind of grappling in Gary has, honestly. I don't think we've even seen him on his back much at all, really. So, you know, that's going to be a, it's a tough battle for him. But that's what you got to do in this division.

Even Leon Edwards, you know, if he ends up getting that fight, I mean, Leon has great wrestling. He took down fucking Usman. So, you know, you know, Even, you know, so even if he gets up there, you know, somehow navigates through the division without facing a great grappler, you know, Leon could put it on him in the grappling pretty bad. Yeah, and you got to remember, and this is not a knock on Ian Gary,

but I'm sure, I mean, I know Ian probably wouldn't want to acknowledge this because he believes in himself and he believes he's going to be champion. But the boogeyman right now at 170 is Shabcat Rechmonoff. We all know that. Like, that's the guy everyone has pegged and said, this is the future champion. And maybe that motivates Ian Gary to say, hey, give me Shabkat after this fight because we know Shabkat's not getting the title shot.

We know Bilau and Leon are fighting in July in about a month from now. Maybe if he wins this fight, maybe he calls out Shabkat. And then we get a real, like, we get to see right then and there what he's made of. And I think that would be a really interesting fight. But yeah, Shabkat is still the boogeyman. That's the guy that, like, he is the new Ustman when Uspan was coming up and no one wanted to fight him. And everyone's like, I don't want to fight Uspin. Like he's a tough wrestler.

He grinds on you. He has cardio for days. I don't want to fight that guy. and so it took him a long time to finally get guys that would fight him. I think that's Shafkat right now. So I like that. If Ian wins, call us Shafkat Rikmanoff. You want to be the number one guy in the world?

You want to be a champion? Call that guy out. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's the fight to make, too, if he wins his fight. And I think it's a great style. He matches, too. Shafqqqat will stand with guys a lot. And he's long, like Ian Gary, strong.

But, boy, when he gets you down, it's a bad. And yeah, that's a, that's a perfect fight. And, you know, that's one of the pros and cons of the UFC is a lot of times, you know, if this were boxing, like those two wouldn't fight until they both had titles. Yeah. Right. Like, there's no possible way. Like they would say, look, like, I'm going to do my thing.

I'm going to beat up a bunch of guys, get some titles. You do your thing. And let's make this a gigantic fight. But in the UFC, you're going to get these two guys that could both be title contenders. both are that good and then they end up knocking one one of the other off. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.

Again, I agree. I think in boxing, you kind of save guys so you get, you know, Terrence Crawford still has contenders after Errol Spence. But, you know, this is MMA, this is the UFC, and we know that. The UFC doesn't play that. I give him credit for that.

They don't let anyone skate by. Even like I said, like, you know, we all talk about Sean O'Malley had an easier path than most. Well, he did to a certain extent, but he still had to fight fucking Peter Yon. It's not like he got the title shot off nothing. He had to go through fucking Peter Yan.

So you can say he didn't have to go through Peter Yan and nine other guys, but he still had to go to Peter Yon. So, you know, you can't sit there and knock anybody. No one gets an easy path in this sport. That is not boxing, where your first real test, your first biggest test is the title fight. We really find out what you're made of. That happens a lot in boxing, not quite as much, but it does happen.

It doesn't happen to the UFC, so we'll see. I don't want to spend a lot of time on this one, but I want to get your opinion. Anthony Smith, you know, he's taking this fight on short. notice. Roman Deleese taking this fight on short notice and going up a division. I like Anthony to win. I thought he proved a lot of people wrong with that last fight where he went out there against Vito Petrino, choked him out in the first round, kind of reminded people how good Anthony Smith can be. I don't know if Anthony Smith's going to be a title contender again. I don't know if he's going to beat, you know, Magamette Ankelai, I have a guy he already fought and lost to. I don't know if he's

ever going to be that dude. And I like Roman. Roman's a good fighter, but Roman's stepping up a weight class. He's doing this on short notice, which, you know, so is Anthony. But I like Anthony Smith to win this. one am I am I are you agreeing with me on that one yeah I have to agree just because um on short notice coming up a weight class I think Anthony Smith is a tough out for something like that you know if both if this was a full camp and you know Roman had the chance to may put on a little bit more pounds whatever it could be more interesting but you know Anthony man he's a he's always in a fight you know so I haven't seen anything from Roman to where I would say, look, he's going to go in and win this fight.

But again, you know, when there's so many X factors you're talking about when you're looking at these short notice fights, you know, how is he training? You know, what was he focusing on? What, you know, how much is his skills improved? How's the weight child going to be? Which is the one advantage that he does happen, this is, you know, Anthony is going to have to cut weight and Roman's not. on short notice, that could be issues. So, you know, but I still believe in Anthony Smith. I think he's got a lot of big things that he can do,

whether he could ever get back to a title contention. I'm not sure. I know he mentioned something about maybe getting a title shot off of this fight or something, which was a little bit surprising that he would say that. But, you know, that's the game. We're all shooting for title contention. So, but yeah, I'm with the end. you got to lean towards anything on this one.

So now, Brian Ortega, Diego Lopez is a really interesting fight because, as I mentioned, Brian came back for the long layoff and the disappointing injury head against Jaya Rodriguez. He comes back, in my opinion, looks better than ever in the rematch. He looked incredible. I was blown away about how good he looked in that fight, and he beats Diego Lopez. He beats Yaya Rodriguez.

Diego Lopez has that barn burner of a fight with Mosaar when he debuts on short notice, weak notice, two weeks notice, whatever was, super short notice, goes in there and gives Mosaar, Ebloev, his toughest fight to date in the UFC. And then since then, he's been a fucking wrecking machine. He's just out there killing people. And I thought Sadiq Yousef was going to be a really interesting matchup because

Sadiq is such a high-level striker, good takedown defense. I was like, man, we're going to find out how good Diego Lopez is. What we found out is Diego Lopez is a fucking badass because he went out there and torched so deep, Sadiq Yusuf, like a minute in the first round. Striking. He didn't grapple with him. He just went out there and knocked him out, which was incredible. Matt, I like Brian Ortega.

I just said that. I think Brian Ortega is the top five featherweight and has been for many years for a reason. Brian Ortega has some of the highest level jihitsu in the sport, much less just a featherweight division. But I think Diego can match him in that realm. Diego's got really, really good grappling. And I think when it comes to striking, while I think Brian Ortega has really good boxing, we've seen him do well against guys like the Korean zombie. I'm riding super high on Diego Lopez right now.

Like I just think you're running into a bit of a buzz saw. And so I'm going with Diego Lopez in this fight. I don't know if he's going to knock him out or submit him. I don't know if it's going to be a decision. But, man, I just, I'm super high on this kid, man. He has just been a human wrecking machine since that fight with Mosa. And again, let's remember, he gave Mosa everything he could handle on, you know, two weeks notice. And since then, he's just absolutely been killing people until he runs into maybe a Volcanowski,

which I think that'd be an intriguing fight. He wins this one. Maybe he gets Alex while, you know, while Max and I earlier fighting. I think that would be a really interesting one. But, yeah, I think this is kind of like the new blood thing. I think we're kind of like passing the torpor. a little bit. I think this is Diego Lopez's night. All right.

I'm glad we disagree on one. And look, if Diego goes out and wins that Volcanowski matchup, I think sounds amazing. That's a really good call there. But I think bigger than anything, I think the experience, the tactical advantages

I think Brian Ortei is going to bring to this fight are going to shine. I mean, he's a very smart cerebral fighter. We know he can go through a war. We know that he can battle through adversity. Diego hasn't been tested on this level.

You know, like I said, I was agreed with you. I thought SOTIC would give him a great test. And I think, first I think he kind of got a sotick a little bit cold, you know,

got him before he really warmed up and got into the fight, which was great for him. I don't see that happen with Brian Ortega. And I think Brian Ortega can grapple with him. I think Brian Oeteg is a much more technical striker.

And I think Brian Oteg is going to shine in this fight. And I think it's a great matchup for him. And I see probably like a 3027 decision here. Yeah. And every metric and every way you say it, that's probably the way the fight should go. But I'm just super high in Diego right now. I just really like this kid. And I just think, you know, this is like I think he just, I think he shot.

Like I said, I thought 300 would be the moment where it's like, okay, he's good. but let's slow down on like anointing him, you know, the next contender. When he blows through Sadie Kusuf, I was like, wow, I didn't see that coming. You know, like he just tore through him in like a minute. And that's, you know, we just saw what Sadieke went through with Edson Barbosa, which was a great fight. But yeah, I'm just super high on Diego, man. I think Diego is very similar to Brian, which I think is very interesting with this matchup. So, yeah, I'm leaning towards Diego.

I don't think that that strategy of kind of Blitz Creek style is going to play well against Brian Ortega. would and it played well against sodyk and we've seen it play well for him and other matchups but for brian ortega i think brian o'tega withstands that storm and picks him apart and maybe even submits him at some point yeah now the main event listen we saw this fight last november Yuri parashka gets knocked out by alix prairie we're all stunned not stunned that he did it just the way he just keeps doing it like every time i'm listen i've been the guy matt you know this like we you know when they i don't mean to bring this up just to pat ourselves in the back we both picked him to beat israel ad asanio the first time we both picked

israel to beat him in the rematch and that's exactly how it played out um we're good we are but i but i i still i still live and die by that opinion that while he has been incredible alice is still 11, 12 fights into an MMA career. He's 37, 38 years old. He's been a glory kickboxer most of his life. At some point, we're going to see how the other half lives. We're going to see him get taken down. We're going to see him

not have that advantage on the feet and all these kind of things. And I think the matchup I really want to see as him against Megamad Ankolaev. I think that's a really interesting matchup because Ankulayev is a high-level striker, but he's also an incredible grappler. I think that would be... That to me is like a dream fight at light heavyweight. Yuri Prakashka is that dude.

That he will go out there and he'll he's the guy who you'll make it bleed and they'll spit it in your face and keep coming at you. Like that's just who he is. But I always fall back on this same issue with Yeri while I think he's phenomenal. And I think that he's ready for this fight that we have not yet seen a Yeri Phrashka fight where he doesn't take significant damage. Even in the Alexander Rackage fight, a guy who is not known for putting a lot of damage on an opponent. He's still put on damage on Yeri. Now again, Yeri took it, absorbed it, came back and finished.

him and I think it was the second round. But you can't play that game with Alex Pereira. You just can't. He needs one. He just needs to clip you. When you watched the first one, he didn't really hit him that already clipped him, and he fucking fell because it's Alex Pereira.

So listen, maybe I'm wrong, and this turns into an incredible trilogy, which I think is possible, because how fun would that be? But I just, I live and die by the idea that year he just takes too much damage to deal with a guy like Alex hitting him. He just needs one.

He just needs to clip you. He didn't need to hit you clean. And he put your fucking lights out. So I got to go with Alex. Maybe I'm just becoming the fanboy Alex. Just watch this dude do what he's doing. But I just, that one factor always sticks in my head.

Here he gets hit. And the last guy you want to hit you is Alex Pereira. I'll tell you what. Everything you are saying makes perfect sense. And I kind of think that you're really hitting the nail on the head with all of that. And that's how I should feel about everything. And I should just repeat what you say. said for this particular fight, I just have a gut feeling about Yuri Prohashka.

I think he's got something deep in him that he can pull out and make this fucking happen. And I mean, you know as well as I do. If there's a guy that can fucking pull it out and make it happen, it is Yuri Prohashka. So I'm going to go with him with not a lot of confidence, but I do something in my gut that tells me, like Yuri's going to get this fucking done. You know, like, I think he might use a little bit more strategy and brainpower than normally, right? Like, I think we see him a lot just kind of go in there

and, you know, throw caution to the wind and balls to the wall. And, you know, we're just going to figure it out as we go along and, you know, you can kick my leg and I'll just switch the ball for a second, you know, kind of whatever. I think he might actually strategize be a little bit more tactical in this fight.

and I think that he can find a way. I just said there's a gut feeling. There's part of me, and this is not like me rooting for anything like this, but there's part of me because I know how fun these guys are and how great this could be that like a year he win would set up a trilogy and maybe we see them running back in November. Maybe they're the co-main to Jones and Miotich. I wouldn't complain about that.

Like these two guys, the guy, they seem like they are both really fun fighters. If they ran it back 10 times, I think every fight would be fun. So, part of me is like, man, if year he wins, this sets of a really, just a really interesting trilogy, I think that's really fun. But yeah, I just, I got to stick with Alex just because, again, that X factor, his power and the fact that Yuri takes damage.

But I understand what you're saying. And also, I want to throw this out there. Maybe, again, this is me playing conspiracy theorist. But, you know, we know Alex was in Australia. He's teaching seminars. He's traveling. He's not in fight mode yet. We knew that.

We heard the rumor. The rumor I heard was August. They were going to be in that purse card in Australia. with Israel and Dracus. Now how true or false that was, I'm not sure, but that's what I had heard. So they were not that far out from fighting,

but there's something back in my head. Yuri's such a fucking lunatic savage that I feel like he was already like deep in training camp. Like he just left 300, went right back to the monk monastery, and just started training like a samurai again. And I feel like he might be better prepared. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah, there's a little piece of me too that agrees with that. And the other part, too is when you watch that first fight he came very close to Alex a lot and all he needs to do is get another few inches on some of those punches. You get

a little bit closer, tighten things up just a little bit and I think that could have been a bad night for Alex but like you said, Alex has that fucking one punch, change the whole fight type of power so it's always like

you can never like fully pick against Alex. I mean the dude is just a fucking killer. So, but I just, again, I'm just going with a gut on this one. You know, you're the type of guy. You almost, you kind of can't really write everything on paper with him anyway. It's got to be a little bit of, like you pick him because of your gut. You know, like, you don't pick him because of, you know, like, you know, like, you know,

some tactical breakdown shit that Luke Thomas or Henry Suito is doing. You know, it's like, dude. like you do you feel good about the guy or not i feel good about him on this one yeah he's a wild man i love it and we love that style like i said maybe pulls out a fucking spinning back elbow and that's how he wins this fight Alex per i can't remember the i care we've all had these guys where we just find ourselves picking against them constantly like we don't have anything against them but we're just like this is the fight where it's not going to work out for him and i don't remember who it was i've had one of those guys more recently but like i feel like Alex has kind

of been that guy for me because while i did pick him to be israel i'm pretty sure i picked you on Blahovitch to beat him. I can't remember if I picked him to beat Yuri the first time. We'd have to go back and listen. I think maybe I did, but I can't really remember. Again, I think it was the damage factor. I know I picked Jamal Hill to beat him,

and that didn't work out. So, like, Alice just keeps proving me wrong. So I feel like this is, maybe I'm cursing him by actually picking him to win this time. But yeah, but I'm with you, man. Like, if you're picking, if you're picking, if you're picking, if you're picking him, because man, this guy's jiu-jitsu is just so superior

and he's going to take him down and out and grappling. No, you're picking him. because Yuri's a fucking wild man and he might throw a spinning back hill combined with a spinning back elbow somehow lands both at the same time and that's why he wins the fight. That's just who Yuri is.

Exactly. There's something about something in the air. I don't know, man. Like there's something in the air about Yuri for this fight. The way he looked against Rakeach, look, I know he took a lot of damage

certainly like with the leg kicks and, you know, got busted up a little bit. But that showed me a lot, man. Because he did do some adjustments and the way he just gutted through it was pretty fucking impressive, man. And I think he can do it again. So I don't know.

We'll see. I'm certainly like a 51-49 on that. You know what I mean? It's not like, dude, fuck a year he's going to win for sure. But he always makes it for an interesting fight. you know, he always makes it interesting to try to break down what he's going to do. So, but again, I just got a feeling for him. So. And I'm with you. I want to see a fucking trilogy.

I want to say to fight 20 times. Like I said, I'm not complaining about that. That's what happened. I certainly would complain. What a great world we live in where you could see Yuri Prasch and Alex Pereira fight three times. I mean, I'm not complaining. So, yeah, if you're right, I certainly will be like, good job because, man, well, I like to see the third fight. So, yeah, this is a great card.

Like I said, I know. you know, people are bummed about Connor. I get it. You know, we talked about it last week. People booked flights and hotels and all these kind of things. I understand that part of it. But I really like this card. I'm super excited for it on Saturday night.

It's not bigger, but I truly do believe it's better. So we got that coming up on Saturday. Of course, we'll break down what happens next week on the show. I think we get a one-week break in the UFC because we get this show. And I think our next card is Rosemunus and Macy Barber in mid-July. I think we get a week off, which is the best. boxing match, I know, like, it is Ussick Fury level, the one you're looking forward to between George Mazfadol and Nate Diaz. That's coming up on July 6th. I know that is your, that is your Crawford Spence.

I know you're so excited about that one, Matt, but we get a little bit of a break from the UFC for a week after this one. We'll have plenty to break down with this card next week. And, of course, we'll get into a lot. We haven't had a chance to talk about Mike Perry, Jake Paul. That's coming up in July. We'll talk more about that in the future. So, yeah, UFC 303 gets our attention this week, but we'll, we'll break things down. We got a little, We got a little law in the action after this week. So we'll break down some other things going on in the sport. And Matt, where can people check you out?

They want to support you, things you got going on. And including the gym. I don't know if we plug the gym enough on here. It's not a lot of plug. It's a local thing. You know, there's not a national podcast, international. We're international podcasters. That's true.

Jim's more local. But, you know, but we are doing a lot of work on making it a great thing. And it's going along very well. and that's at Immortal Martial Arts if you want to follow that on Instagram, but you can also follow me at I'm Immortal on Instagram and Twitter,

the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. We've got the weekly newsletter posting up all regularly, which is going pretty well. I'm having a lot of fun with that. We've got the creatine at try underscore create creatine gummies. Use code immortal to save

on those. And yeah, that's, you know, doing a lot of things, bro. We're staying all over the place here. Real quick, where we go, I got to tell you a funny story. So we all know here in Ohio, they recently passed the law that marijuana is now, like, recreationally legal in the state of Ohio. Oh, really?

I didn't know that. Yeah, I passed last year, and so now we're in this thing. And we got this advertisement in the mail for a place that you can order from here in Columbia, in Ohio, that, like, mail order because it's all legal now. And my girlfriend, Taylor, who, of course, you know you met, she got a thing in the mail and there was like she was looking at it and it said something like there's this one mixture of of a gummy that had like mushrooms or something and it was like supposed to be like a sleep gummy or whatever and she's like she says to me she's like have you seen this?

I was like no I've never seen this word she's like ask Matt. Matt takes that. I was like what are you talking about Matt takes that? She's like didn't you say he takes gummies? It's like creatine gummies. Not mushroom gummies. He takes creatine gummies. It was just funny.

She's like, I don't you said Matt takes that. gummies. I'm like, yes, creatine gummies, not mushroom gummies. Well, I do also fuck with at PSY, N-E-R-G-Y, and that is at Synergy, and that is still a cymbin-microdose gummies, chocolates, gummies. I actually really enjoy those. Those are nice. You know, you guys can check them out if you're into that kind of thing, but, you know, you're not tripping, right? You're not. You could, you know, if you over microdose. But I don't.

You know, I'll take one or two. And I actually really enjoy them, man. They feel good. And, you know, you're not walking around tripping balls or anything. Just feeling good. I just thought it was funny. She's like, doesn't he take those? No, creatine.

Because I told her about the creatine companies. She's like, oh, okay. It's just funny. I take creatine and microdose. There you go. There you go. All right, folks. We're getting out of here.

Want to say a big thank you. There's always the tunes into the podcast. Make sure to be back next week for another edition of Fighter versus the Rider. We'll have lots to talk about the fallout from UFC 303. And thanks to everyone tuning in. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. And of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin.

We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first? There, the last one.

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