MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Explains Why Oleksandr Usyk Isn't the No. 1 Pound-for-Pound Boxer, the Mistake Jake Paul is Making in His Fight Against Mike Tyson

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with a new episode as UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin discuss the latest in combat sports including Oleksandr Usyk beating Tyson Fury to become the new undisputed heavyweight champion in boxing. Usyk nearly scored a finish over Fury in the ninth round but the referee opted to give "The Gypsy King" a standing 10 count rather than swooping in for a stoppage. Did the referee cost Usyk a knockout victory with that move? Plus, Usyk's win has been praised as one of the biggest in recent history in boxing but does that actually put him at the top of the pound-for-pound list? Brown explains why he just can't put Usyk there. We also discuss the recent criticism that Jon Jones has faced for picking Stipe Miocic as his next opponent rather than fighting interim UFC champion Tom Aspinall. We'll also react to Jake Paul talking trash to Mike Tyson at their most recent press conference and Brown details why he believes that's a huge mistake on Paul's part. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine.

Available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. To the fighter versus the writer, I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, did you ever imagine that you'd be so tired and busy after retirement? Because you've been busier than ever.

and you're quote unquote retired. That's what I always said, bro. It's not retirement. It's just switching jobs. And now busy than I was before, it's kind of weird because that's one of the cool things about fighting. You just got one thing, you got one job.

And I mean, obviously, basically it's hard and it's kind of mentally hard, but like it's really not that hard. You know what I mean? It's like compared to this shit that's like all day, slow grind, mental grind. It's actually a lot of easier.

I had a, I had kind of a, certainly not as hard as a fighter. I had kind of a long day today just doing stuff in terms of busy and work and interviews and stuff like that. And, you know, just like that, like you get done and you're like, man, I'm tired as a long day. Then I think back about when I worked at a cubicle, you know, and I had to work on like a customer service team and shit like that.

And I'm like, yeah, I really don't have it that bad. Like, it's really not that bad. Yeah, I'd rather eat glass. That's what I say, like, when you fight, like, yes, it's physically taxing and, you know, it's hard on you mentally physically, but if you love your job, it's all leading to somewhere good. I'm quite sure you'd still rather do that than, you know, fucking, you know, bust tables or, you know, whatever. Not to demean anyone it buses tables. I'm just saying, like, I'm sure you'd rather do that than some other job that you really don't want. for sure yeah and you know there's a place in the world for everybody but for me yeah i can't do what i'm told

i just even if it's the right thing you tell me to do one thing i just want to do whatever the opposite is there's a lot of people like it that that's why i'm an entrepreneur that's why i do the careers you know fighting or whatever that i did because it's just is not the way i'm built and i'd rather failed doing it my way than when doing it your way. So what all's been going on in the world of Matt Brown? What all you guys have been going on is like I said, when you retire, quote unquote, that doesn't mean things slow down.

If anything, things get busier for you. And I know things have actually gotten busier for you because you now have time to put your full effort and attention on something other than training. Yeah, well, mainly the real estate and the gym, right? So on Wednesday, we'll be closing on a flip home, make a good profit on that start busting out the next one

well we got another one in the works already but we'll start looking for more in the gym man we're grinding on that on the gym and there's so much potential you know if any UFC fighters or or just martial artists in general

are listening like you got to listen to me man you got to open a gym it's a lot of work. It's not easy. It's not simple. Like something, as we said, like, jujitsu, a lot of times I'm like, do this is simple.

It's not easy. A gym is neither simple nor easy. Like, it's hard. But it is totally worth it. You can make so much money doing it. That's, you know, part of the motivation for retirement. Like, I can easily make what I made in fighting.

Not easily, but I can definitely make what I made in fighting and live a somewhat normal life. You know, right now I'm going through the grind because, you know, my gym is kind of suffered over the past five years that it's been open because I was fighting, right? I didn't really put all my focus and energy into it.

You know, especially UFC fighters, man. Once you, you got that tag next to your name, UFC, you got to be opening a gym. It's a foolproof way. Like you're going to get members. You can build an empire. And it's really mind-blowing that more guys don't do it. You know, I'm so surprised that there's not martial arts gyms across the country with UFC fighters.

I know a lot of guys do. But, you know, most of them that I've been to, they're not well-ran. They're kind of, you know, the kind of like training camp type gyms. You know, a lot of guys want to, you know, build the next UFC fighter and this and that. but make some fucking money, bro. It's funny. I talked to Frankie Edgar a couple months ago. He had his gym open out in New Jersey.

He was real excited about that, you know, doing that out there. And I've talked to other guys. I mean, like I said, when you put your heart into it and you put, you know, put time into it, you can be successful because, like, I drive around where we live in Columbus and I see a martial arts gym like, I don't know. I'm not going to make it up a number here really. Every two miles, I see something like karate or taekwondo or something. gym. These places, and these places have been here for a while. So you got to, you got to think about it. Like, okay, there's a lot of martial arts gyms in a city, and Columbus is a big city,

but you got to know that they're not open by accident. Like, you don't open a business and just stay there. Like, you have to pay rent, you have to pay employees, you know, you have to make money. You're not there just to be there. So if I'm seeing all these martial arts gyms around here, they're clearly staying open and they're in popular areas where you know the landlords could get rent from a restaurant or something else, like main, like mall, you know, main, like strip mall type places. And I'm not even saying they're good.

I'm just saying, like, they got to be doing business to stay in business. Like, you're not going to get when he's high in, like, you know, retail places and not stay in business. So there's like 30 martial arts gyms within, like, a stone's throw where I lived. And imagine being able to go train under the guy with the most knockouts in UFC history,

the guy who spent 16 years in the UFC, the guy, you know, I mean, that's a no, brainer. Like that's like, of course I want to go train with that guy. So like that's what I'm saying. Like if there's that many gyms open and doing business, then you know a Matt Brown gym is going to do business. There'll be people flocking there to do business. So all you got to do is

run it right. Do you know how many martial arts gyms are in the U.S.? A lot. Take a guess. I don't know. It's got to be. I don't know the yeah. Yeah, 50 states, you know, probably what, 200 major

cities. Take a guess. I don't know. I'm throwing numbers out here. I don't know. 50,000? You're pretty close. Sixty-five thousand. Jeez, man. That's a lot. 65. And they said, if you're looking at 50 states, that's an average of, you know, over 10,000 per state. And obviously, some are going to have 10,000. Some have maybe one or 2,000. And then others have 15 or 20,000. But that is a lot of fucking gyms, bro. And there's a lot of a reason why there's so many because it's a good fucking business and this is one of my arguments

also where people yeah all you hear with so many of these motherfuckers these days like all the world's getting so weak the pusplication my i'm my bro there's more crossfit gyms than there's ever been there's more martial arts that has ever been every cornerly look is to be a weightlifting gym you know even if it's just a planet fitness or a fucking you know lifetime fitness a world gym, gold gym, LA, whatever. There's a million of them. Everywhere you look, Snap Fitness, everywhere. Like, our team is killing it in wrestling.

You know, I think we won more than any other country in the Olympics last time or in the worlds. I mean, we won our first world medal in a long time. Like, our boxers are killing it. Like, there's more UFC fighters in America than anywhere else. And everybody was talking about the posification. I'm like, all you're doing, scrolled through social media seeing a bunch of pussies crying and saying that everybody's a pussy.

Like, you can't generalize it like that. But anyway, there's that many martial arts gyms across. A lot of them, of course, are karate or taekwondo. But hey, that's better than sitting on your ass, right? That's better than, you know, fucking, you know, being a fat drunk at the bar. Well, and, and obviously, like, you, I know your gym, do more than just train MMA. You teach more than just MMA, but like, you know, that's, I think that has changed.

Matter of fact, we don't teach MMA. Not at all. At all. I do not have a single MMA class. And I'm not sure if I ever will because we have more Thai, Jiu-Jitsu, and a little bit of wrestling, but we have times where we specifically wrestle. And what is M.M.A. It's striking.

Jiu-tizu. grappling and some wrestling. Yeah. I'm like, learn the fucking sports, get really good at them, and then put it together a little bit before you fight. It's not complicated.

Like, you don't need to be, I hate when I see Jim's doing MMA rounds or MMA training. Because, so I had an M.A class when I first opened. And especially with beginners, amateurs,

it's the most foolish thing. These guys, they don't know how to, shoot or sprawl or shrimp or you're like bro go to fucking jiu-jitsu class go to moitai class once you've excelled at that and you become an expert in each of those then come to every class so i get like a clip kill clip or you know aka when they got a big team of pros or ATT things like that but for 99% of gyms it's the

stupidest thing ever well and also but also to that point you know you talk about even if you're doing Muay Thai wrestling and Jiu-Jitsu, that's different than just going to learn taekwondo. You know what I mean? Like you're still learning more. You can learn more. And also the other thing you have to remember, and I say this all the time,

and I'm not saying this that I'm a gym owner. I say this because I've been to those gyms. I've been to American top team. It's a great facility. Dan Lambert runs a great gym. But what did I learn when I was there? They don't make money from their fight team. You learn about, you know, everyone trains there,

Dustapor-Porye trains there, Mazadol trains there. Armid Saruki and Trains there Hanato Moikano trains there Every UFC fighter you ever heard of trains there They don't make money from their fight team Where do they make their money from their kids classes From their adult classes

People who have no desire Whatsoever to ever try to fight the UFC They're never going to fight Like they're never going to take a professional fight They just want to learn and train And get better in martial arts That's where you make your money That's where you make your home

From what I understand Dan Lembert opened that More as a passion project it was like he had the money to burn and loved m-ma and realistically like you know if some guy wants to come in and train like an m-fighter what do they do they take to jitza they take more time and that's the people that honestly when we talked about owning a business the grind of it that you have to find some fulfilling rewards in it because it gets fucking messy you know it gets difficult and there's problems all the fucking time like

Like it's a difficult job. So you have to find the rewards. If you're finding the rewards in training fighters, good for you. I don't find that totally rewarding. I like it. I enjoy it because I love training. I love the science. I love the puzzles that you have to deal with, putting together game plans,

training the guys, watching them succeed. But what's 10 times more fulfilling is when that little kid comes up to me. Just a couple weeks ago, a little girl came up to me. I think she's either eight or nine years old. Her little sister's like six. And some kid was bullying her little sister. And she went up and stopped it. And she told me that she used one of the techniques that she learned in our class.

You know, and it was a simple technique. She said the bully, like, grabbed her wrist. And she did a wrist roll. She knew to go against the thumb on a wrist roll. And, you know, got out of it and pushed the kid and got her sister out of trouble. That fucking warms your heart. You know what I'm saying? Like, who knows what would have happened in that situation?

Had she not been at my gym, got that confidence, knew exactly what to do when the kid grabbed her wrist. Like, who knows how this would have turned out? But she walked up confidently. And she's just a sweet little girl, too, you know, just a little eight-year-old girl, like, or nine or something. Just this little sweetheart, you know, would never even, like, not the slightest bit of intimidation factor at all. Yeah. That is fucking rewarded. Watching my guy go kick somebody's ass down at the local bar or even in UFC, you know, that's cool, right?

Like you cheer for your boy. But it don't warm your heart like that. Yeah. Well, like I said, obviously you're putting a lot of time into it now, and it seems like the gym is not only doing well, but it's going to do even better. And I want to think about this conversation we're having right now in May of 2024. I want to revisit this like May of 2020. and see how far the gym has gone in a year because I feel like when you put your full focus there

and actually putting your full attention there, it's going to be miraculous to see the change a year from now because nothing happens overnight, but a year from now, I think it's going to be pretty crazy to see how different your gym is going to be. Yeah, yeah, I would say by May of next year, we're going to start looking at more locations.

We're on track to do a million next year. And in 2025, that's the goal. That's what we're going to get to, and we're going to start opening more locations. Touch more people, man. That's what it's all about. You know, I want to blow this thing out of water, a bunch of locations, and be helping kids all across the city, and then maybe keep growing beyond there across state,

maybe across the country, maybe the world of attention. Yeah, I mean, I think there's plenty of room in Ohio for sure, like beyond anywhere else. Like, that's your home state. But, I mean, you could grow even bigger than that. But, like, there's definitely room for growth even just in Ohio. Like I know, you know, growing up in Ohio, like there are gyms. Don't get me wrong.

As I said, I could throw a rock and hit a Taekwondo gym probably from my house right now. But, you know, is there an immortal martial arts center? Is there that? No. So, you know, maybe take it over a little bit. Some of these guys are going to try to come in and give you the death touch, Matt. They're going to get pissed off. They're going to try to give you the debt touch.

Hey, we got a Taekwondo kid that changed in my Muay class. once they start to learn some white i that's acondo shit can fuck you up bro these kicks are so fast it scares the hell out of me all the time well just like i said watch out for the guy with the death touch it's all i'm saying man just watch out with the guy with the death touch you know it's a real it's a real deal it's real they put you put you down right in the heart six inch punch yeah six those are always my those are always my favorite videos to watch online when the people when the uh the the the gurus get challenged and never ends well

for them. It always cracks me up, like, the six-inch punch or whatever, you know I'm talking about. You've shown me videos of, like, the guys that the supposed, quote-unquote, gurus who know martial arts and they go against, like, an actual fighter or an actual martial artist, they get their asses just handed to them.

It's pretty hilarious. Dude, McDojo Life is the best follow on Instagram ever. You've never heard him. You've got to go check him out right now. I've reposted his shit a couple times. This dude, I don't know how he finds this shit on the internet, but he finds all the fucking

these cult leader dorks that these people believe it like sometimes like the guys he won't even touch them and they fall over and I'm like dude like you can watch a UFC for free on ESPN or like on YouTube or something and see it it does not fucking work that way.

Well years ago I was at a UFC show in New Jersey and I can't I want to say it was when Michael Bissping fought Rashad Evans. This is going back ways. And Chuck Zito was there. And I didn't know Chuck Zito, but he knew a lot of the other guys I I was hanging out with. So I was kind of like in the vicinity of Chuck Zito. I knew Chuck Zito was, but I didn't know Chuck Zito. But then he's telling stories and talking and talking. He's like, hey, let's go up to the city. I'll take you to the strip club. We're like, all right, like, we're going to

hang out with Chuck Zito in New York. And then he's like, yeah, that's the club where I knocked that Jean-Claude Van Damme. And he tells us the story, the infamous story of him knocking at Jean-Claude Van Dam. And I was just like, this is so surreal, but it was so funny because, you know, Chuck Zito was a hell's angel. Like, he was like a legit, just biker dude and just, you know, a fight, like, you know, a street fighter. I'm not saying he's not, you know, skilled at fighting, but, you know, Jean-Claude Van Dam was, you know, Jean-Claude Van Dam. And he's just like, yeah, but, you know, when you get hit by a real guy who could punch you, you go down. And so, you know, I know, I know you're going to, I know you're going to have in Sincese Seagal to teach classes at Immortal

Martial Arts Center, but I don't want to diminish the chances of Segal coming and teaching at your gym, but, you know. Well, Stephen Schall might teach me one of his Anderson's silver front kicks. He is responsible, you know. I wonder he's going to help Anderson train for

Chelsan. Did you see this? Anderson's going to box Jel Sonan? Yeah, this is awesome. I love this. So surreal. When they announced it, I was like, is this real? All right. All right. I thought for sure, Chandleson's fucking around because you can't ever trust anything Chale says but dude this is amazing I love this

out of all the influence or boxing all the bullshit boxing we get these days this is fun like fucking Chale's gonna make this fun so it's funny going back I'm getting a little inside baseball here you going back years ago I used to interview Chale all the time back in the day when he was just in like WC and like before he became Chil Sondon when he was done yeah and Chil was always an incredibly nice guy always gave me time, but I'm just being honest. He wasn't, you know, cutting provos.

He was just kind of given honest interviews, you know, just talking about the sport, talking about wrestling, whatever. Nice, incredibly nice guy. And then I got him on the line. I want to say, I think he beat Nate Markhart. I think that was a fight. And I got him on to do, back then it was, I called it a radio show, it was a podcast, but did a radio show.

And he came on and just out of nowhere, he just torched Anderson Silva. Ed Sores, his manager at the time. Like, he just went nuclear. And I was just like, what in the hell happened? Like, this was so out there. And I think I may, I'm not pat myself in the back. I think I may have been the first person to talk to that Chil Sonnen.

And I was so blown away. I was like, what in the world? What's going on here? Like, this is a Chale. Like, Chale was always kind of a soft-spoken, nice guy. And then he just went nuclear, ripped Anderson, ripped his manager, just went nuts. And then from then on out, he was Chelle Sunnan. He became Chale P. Sunnan.

And now, Chale's still a very nice guy. Like when I see him or I talk to him, still incredibly nice guy. But he knows. He's like I said, he's made a career for himself doing it, but it's hilarious. And it's funny because the night he went nuclear on Anderson, that set up one of the most famous rivalries in UFC history. But in recent years, as you well know, they've kind of become buddies. They've kind of become friends.

They joke. And now they're going to box. I'm like, this is kind of fun because it's almost like, I know you've never seen the Rocky movies. I'm using a Rocky reference, even though you never seen those movies? I watched the first Rocky movie recently. Okay. So in the later, I'm ruining the Rocky movies for you. They've been out for like 40 years. I've ruined the Rocky movies for you. So he fights Apollo creed in the first one.

Him and Apollo eventually became friends in the movies. And at the end, I think the third one, they get into like a sparring session at the end. And Apollo is like, I want my rematch. And they're just joking around the gym. And at the end, they throw a punch. And that's how the movie ends. And like, they become best buddies. But they're still, you know, competitors.

That's kind of how I see. Anderson and Chelle now. Like, they're, they're friendly now, but, you know, they're still, they're still competitors. I guess the question is, does Chale have a chance? You know he's going to win the shit talk battle. It's going to be hilarious. We're going to love it. We have to watch

it. But does he actually have a chance against Anderson? In a boxing match, no. I mean... Right. I mean, Anderson... I think that's what's going to be so funny about it, because Chale's going to talk

all the great shit. you'll probably get paid a little bit, which is cool. But then Anderson's going to clown the fuck out of them. I think Anderson will carry him. It'll kind of look like the Floyd Mayweather-Connor thing, where he'll carry him to make it interesting for four or five rounds, and then, you know, that'll be about enough of that. But it's fun.

I mean, I don't, you know, it, listen, I think that's kind of fun, kind of interesting, good for them, you know. I'm glad Anderson's not fighting, you know, I don't know. I'm not going to throw on names. but he's not fighting some random heavyweight boxer or some shit like that. Like him and chills, him and chills fun. Like,

let him have fun. Yeah, I hope that, uh, I don't think it's going to be the level of music theory, which, this weekend. Which was a fucking awesome fight.

You know, I mean, he's watched five. Damon was, uh, helping out on that. I was literally texting you round by round updates. I love that,

bro. I'm sitting there. and my cousin's graduation, my whole family's there, and they're all chit-chat and stuff, and I'm just staring at my phone in the whole time, like, waiting for the next update. I literally, I had... So I couldn't, like, stream it or something.

I had my message window up on my computer because I was working the event, like covering the event, but I have a message up it on the window. So at the end of every round, I type out a quick message and send it to you and then go back to my writing. So I did round-by-round recaps. What a fight, though, man. I, listen, I love...

I fully admit, I only typically pay attention to the bigger boxing matches. I'm not even going to lie about that. When Terrence Crawford fought Errol Spence or whatever, I watched the big football boxing matches. But I do enjoy high-level boxing. But I grew up on heavyweight boxing. I grew up in the era of Mike Tyson. And I've told you this before. Owen's always talked to me.

My favorite boxer of all time is Lennox Lewis. I love Linux. That's my favorite boxer. So I was in that era of Tyson, Linux, Evander Holyfield, the Klitschko's kind of like in that era. So I love heavyweight boxing. I'll fully admit it. I do. This was one of the best heavyweight boxing matches I've seen

in ages. Yeah, without a doubt. And because of Luceyck, in my opinion, I mean, I think, I've said for a long time I thought Fury was overrated. I always thought he's great. Still think he's great. Still an amazing boxer. But a lot of people put him up there as the best ever,

you know, one of the greatest and all this. And I'm like, no, he's not that. you know, he's great. He's very, very good, but he's not that. And I thought Usik showed it, but also, Fury showed how good he really is. Like, he took a licking, he adapted to a lot of things that Usik did. He changed up his strategy mid-fight. Usik was just too fucking good. That's all there was to it. Like, Usik is a fucking amazing boxer. Like, he, I knew he was really good, but I have and we both for once picked Usick to win this fight.

We got it right, Matt. We didn't condemn Usik. We picked it right. A little pat on the back for that one, we'll take. But we put, we had our questions too, right? I mean, Fury's fuck good. It's tough.

We had our questions. Usik performed amazingly well. Like, what a great boxer, you know. Yeah, that's all. about I say just what a great fucking boxing. He did everything is about as good as you could do. Did the referee rob him of a knockout in the ninth round?

There's been a lot of talk about this. And I think the, I think the confusion comes from the MMA audience watching boxing because they're thinking, well, it's just a standing eight count. But I know you posts on Instagram about it, which is what I want to talk about it. Because a lot of people are like, oh, it's no big deal. I mean, he's still won the fight. but I want you to talk about because the rules of boxing are different than that

so did the referee Rob Usik of a knockout in the ninth round should that fight have just been stopped? Yeah, that's a good question actually. So I knew that there's no standing eight counts in boxing. Like if a referee steps in while the guy's standing, that's the end of the fight. What I didn't know was if the ropes catch him on its way down, it's considered a knockdown.

So, you know, I guess it's kind of a touchy rule, right? There's a little gray area in there, but that's considered knocked down, he gets an eight count. So that's a really good question. John McCarthy talked about it a little bit on Twitter and kind of explained it, and I had to look through the rules myself

a little bit. That was a very unique situation. And I don't know, I didn't think Tyson looked ready to go back. You know, when he, after he gave him the full cow and he asked him if he's okay, like Tyson didn't put his hands up, didn't walk towards him. He still looked completely rotten.

to me, you know, if you asked me, I think he robbed him of a knockout. But, you know, he's not one of those. I mean, I would say robbed. Like, I think the right call would have been to stop the fight. But I wouldn't say robbery, right? You know, we know some of these fights were like, yeah, this guy won, but it wasn't really a robbery that he did.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm glad that, and listen, I understand, like, we saw it in the wilder Fury one fight when, you know, Fury was winning. in the whole fight and Deontay knocked him down viciously a couple times kind of even the score ended up being a draw. Based on, based on knockdowns, Deontay Wilder won the fight based on that, but based on round by round scoring, Tyson clearly beat him, but he got back because those couple knockdowns. This was a fight where it was close in a lot of rounds and I'm just glad that that

didn't Rob Usik of a win because it was a close fight and it ended up being a split decision. I thought, you know, the scores are 1-14 to 113, I think it was the score. I think that's a round what I had it, but I had it for Usoc. So it's close. So that 10-8 round made a difference. And so that would be my only, that was the only thing that scared me about it. I didn't want him to have that close to a finish and have there be a little bit of controversy should the referee have stepped in and saved or did it say anything.

Because it was weird, right? Like, typically when a guy's getting teed off on that and the referee steps in, they're waving it off. They're saying it's over, not you get a 10 count. And so the fact that Usox still won, that, I know. know it sounds weird to say that kind of relieve me a little bit from not like having to worry about the knockout because if fury had won a split decision after that I think we'd be having a much different conversation right now yeah I agree and the nice thing about this whole fight is the rematch is going to be awesome right they know each other now they felt each other's power and they know

each other's strengths of weaknesses now it's good now we're really going to see who's the better man not that we didn't already see that on Saturday but in Fury he comes back and wins, you know, that sets up a huge trilogy. I'm really excited for this rematch. It's not that often that you really get excited about a rematch, right? And that's one of the cool things about boxing, have these rematch clauses, which sometimes it kind of sucks. You're like, you know, like if Arrell Spitz goes in, rematches Crawford, you know.

I don't think we're, if he exercises that rematch clause, I don't think anybody's going to be overly excited, even though I do think Arrell could be better than he did. but this one like I really hope he executed that rematch cause which he says he will and I'm so stoked

to see this next fight I'm so stoked I'm only I'm only typically in favor of automatic rematches even in MMA when there's a reason for it like there's a close fight you know five rounds

48 47 scores things like that like I'm not a big fan of running it back when a guy just gets steamrolled and I understand long-reigning champions and things like that. I do get it, and I can't fault it too much. When, like, you talked about with Israel out of Sanya

when he lost to Strickland and Dana said, we're just going to get him a title fight. I don't really have a huge issue with that because Israel had kind of run through everybody in the division. What do you want him to do? Run the gauntlet, same people he already beat and get another title shot? I don't really have a problem with that.

But typically speaking, like, I thought Al Jermaine Sterling was a great champion. He may have been the best band to weight champion of all time. And I think it would have been totally okay if he got a rematch. but I wasn't, I don't think anyone was really pounding the desk saying, man, we got to run it back. Actually, what was making me pounded the desk about the Shawna-Malley thing was I do feel like the UFC kind of railroaded of a little bit by making him come back and fight in August after going five rounds with Suhudo and May. But that's a whole other conversation. But typically speaking, I don't like immediate rematches unless it's warranted.

This is warranted. This was a razor-close fight and a fucking great battle. I want to see it again in October. I'm like, man, I'm like you. Like now they know each other. Ussig's dealt with Fury's size. Like, you can train all day, but until you're in there with a guy like Fury, you don't know for sure. He got, he started strong, and then Fury came back, and then Ussick adjusted and had him hurt,

and then those last three rounds were crazy. Dude, I am so excited for that. Like you said, I was a big Errol Spence fan. I still am. I still like Errol Spins very much. Not exactly jumping for him to fight Terrence Crawford again, because that Terence Crawford fight was not that good. It was Terence Crawford beating the shit out of Errol Spence.

So I'm not like, you know, kind of like, yeah, I guess he could do better, but I'm not really excited about that. This one I'm excited about. And it'd be so interesting to watch their strategies when they come back. I think that's what makes this most excited about this. It's like, you know, if you see like an arrow spin, it's like, okay, what's this strategy going to be? Is he going to get faster or stronger or, you know, just be a better boxer? He's like, he's clearly got light years to go to catch Starrant's Crawford, and that's not going to happen. So, but with this, you know, like his Tyson will come in bigger.

Is he going to make, I thought he would probably try to lean on Rucick a lot more, weigh him down a lot more, grab them, you know, wear his arms out a lot more than he did. You know, Ucic did a good job in all aspects of the fight. So, you know, I'm not sure what adjustments he could make. So I don't know. It's going to be interesting. That's all I'm saying, like just seeing. how they come back and re-stategize for the next five.

So I'm going to put you on the spot here, Matt. Alexander Usset goes out there, beats Tysifery. First person to beat Tysafir. It's a huge win. He's still undefeated. Also has two wins over Anthony Joshua, who, by the way, is the biggest loser out of this whole situation because he was surely hoping for a definitive finish, and then he could go get the winner, but that ain't going to happen.

And he may be, if he comes back and wins the rematch, then they're probably going to do a trilogy, and A.J.'s really screwed. But do you put Usoc number one pound for pound after the last? that win? No, not even close. I'm so surprised that people are putting him up as pound for pound number one. I mean, when you got Crawford, Inouye, Canello, I mean, Jesus, I'm just shocked like I said, Fury is a great win, undefeated, you know, amazing boxer. But okay, let me back turn. Putting that heavyweight in pound for pound to begin with is a huge challenge for me. Like it's almost a different sport when you look at heavyweight versus like the lighter weights and boxing.

The skills are nowhere near what the lightweights are. You just can't. It's just athletically not possible. It's not that, you know, they're necessarily less boxers and it's like a different game when they're a heavyweight. So I always have a hard time putting the heavyweight at pound for pound. Like I certainly would have put like Mike Tyson pound per pound in his day or Ali or, or, you know, some, you know, there's exceptions that I rule. But for the most part, I mean, I don't think you can compare Ucic skills with Inouye.

You know, to me is it's either Hemmer Crawford's number one apple cow. You know, like you can't even compare them, I don't think. Heavy weights, heavyweights get all the shine because people love to see the big guys bang it out. It's always been the kind of golden division. So your sacrifices, you don't get to be ranked as high palpit. pound. That's like the sacrifice because you're fighting in heavyweight. And it's funny, I talked to Curtis Blades a couple of days ago after his fight with Tom Aspinall got made. And he was talking about like the dangers of fighting heavyweight in MMA. And he said,

you know, in heavyweight, yes, it's about skill. But it's also about timing and luck. He's just, and he makes a great point. He says, in heavyweight, like, you'll never, he's like, you can't have a Max Holloway, Justin Gachie fight a heavyway because any one of those like 19 shots will knock you out. And he's just, he's like, there are great fights of lower divisions, but you can't take that punishment at heavyweight and, and keep going.

That's why he butted against the idea that people say he has a glass jaw because he's been knocked out. And it's like, do you realize who knocked out Curtis Blaze? Derek Lewis, who has the most knockouts in UFC history. Francis Ingan, who may be the hardest pound for pound puncher in history.

And Sergey Pavlovich, who may be number two. Like, that dude hits like a truck. That's the three guys who have knocked out Curtis plays. Is that really a bad thing that those are the guys who have knocked him out? Like that's who, I mean, anybody could get knocked

up by those three savages. I mean, when you see a guy like Demetrius Johnson, you know, easily one of the pound for pound top five in history. Like, can you ever, I mean, can you imagine the heavyweight doing what he does? You know, like that arm bar that he threw up on

I forget who it was, where he took his back. Ray Borg? I think it was Ray Borg. Yeah. Like, the heavy can't they literally just can't not do these types of things and if you if you if you break down like athleticism like you cannot be as athletic as a heavyweight it's just impossible like no heavyweight is catching your same bowl ever you know like or it's going to be a gymnast ever in the Olympics right you know so there's just there's some things that you just can't

do it's a different game almost so i find it difficult to put heavy weights in a pound for without unless they're really, really special. Usick is special, and I put in, I put them in top 10 pound, particularly because of what he did, cruiser weight and a heavy weight. But, and the skills that he shows all around, too. But to put them up there at top three when you got, you know, some of the guys just mentioned, like, I don't know how you compare him with Nguyen or Crawford.

I mean, I mean, those guys are ridiculously good, ridiculous good. Who do you put Crawford or anyway? Who do you have number one? I got him kind of tied, you know. The bigger difference in my opinion is the fact that in a way just doesn't have a competition that Crawford does, you know, and that's even kind of, you know, a little bit subjective because, you know, just the guys that that way just don't have the names either. So, you know, he's never beat as big a names as Crawford has.

And he did get dropped in his last fight, you know, which, I mean, he came. back and knocked the guy out a couple rounds later. So how much does that really matter? You know, in terms of the five, and in terms of pound for pound, you know, well, Crawford's never been dropped. So, you know, it's a, this is a tough one, man. I think those two, I mean, well, you know,

the entire pound for pound debate is subjective as fuck and it's really kind of stupid debate altogether. And there's no real way to compare people. So, you know, usually it's the best heavy weight. Who cares when he's pound for pound? You know, Crawford's best well-to-weight anyways the best whatever light flyer or whatever weight he is.

That was the argument I always made and people get pissed off and you might even get pissed off about it because I always said I love Demetrius Johnson. I think talent-wise, he may be one of the three most talented mixed martial artists we've ever seen, put him up there with George St. Pier and John Jones in terms of talent. But I said in terms of accomplishments,

I always ranked him a little lower because flyweight when he was around just didn't have the depth. And him beating Suhudo and I mean, they were definitely in Joseph Inavita's all good wins, but when flyways started the UFC, it just wasn't as established. Like, I only, I, of course, I'm happy he got paid.

I'm happy he's in one championship. And technically he's fighting bantamates over there. So really, he's kind of doing even better because he's not fighting fly weights. But I wish we could have seen him against the Devis and figurados, the Brandon Morenos, the, the Alessandre Pantosos, the guys who are there now who are established and proven, because that was the one thing that I always had a knock on Demetri.

It's not that I don't like to me. I think Demetris is, talent-wise, as I say, one of the best martial artists you'll ever see. But I just think he ran into a bit of a brick wall in terms of the level of competition. Whereas you look at like a George St. Pierre or a John Jones. John Jones has wins over like almost every ex-champion in light heavyweight history. He has wins over Machita and Rampage and Rashad and all these guys. It's hard to compare that to Chris Carrioso and Ray Borg. No offense.

So that was always, people always arguing about that. It's like I love DJ. I think he's incredible. He's one of the best martial artists in all the time. He just didn't have that same competition, the same names. Like you said, Inouye's fighting good guys, but it doesn't have the same carrot, same weight as an arrow spins. Right.

I don't know why you would take that. But the fact is, that's right. The only difference is, you know, boxing has been around for a long time. The lightweights have been strong for a long time. Yeah, the guys in a way they're beating are very, very good guys. They just don't have names. Yeah. You got to get up above like 130, 135 to start making a name.

You know, usually like 140 is where the name started getting big. And in a way, it can't get up there. You know, like, he's already fighting above this way. You know, like he's not going to come up and fight Tank Davis. Yeah, that's ridiculous. Was he 115? 126, I think. 126, okay.

Yeah, so. 126 and 132 was his last fight. Yeah, tanks 135 and 140. Is that right? By getting that right? Yeah, he bought Garcia 140, too. I always get the weights and boxing always throwing me off because it's so different. Like, they have so many different weight classes.

When I see like super light middle weight, I'm like, what the hell weight is this? I have no idea. So I just have to look it up every single time. Yeah, same with me. And, you know, that is one of the downsides of boxing in terms of following it and band-based and everything. But it's also better for the fighters, in my opinion. You know, like they get a chance to get. There is a lot of titles that they can go get.

And there's a lot of weights that they can play around with based off where their body's at and what feels best for them. They can move up and get different belts. So for the athletes, I think it's a great thing. For us as fans, it's, you know, it's a little more complicated. There's a lot more to follow. There's a lot more you have to keep up with. And, you know, sometimes he's got, like you said, is the first unified champion in fucking how long? Since Lennox Lewis, 25 years, 1999.

on. Yes, it's fucking Lynch Lewis, you know, and it's only going to last a couple weeks. I don't know if you read about that, right? He's got some mandatory that he's not going to be able to go against him. It's like, you know, some of that stuff gets kind of ridiculous. And I think boxing could

do a better job of it, but you know, it's kind of, I mean, it's just a tradeoff. I don't think there's a perfect way to do it. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. What? Sounds like Ojo Time. Play Ojo, great idea.

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but first There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. Yeah, but we talk about heavyweight and kind of shifting gears. This is something I wanted to talk about last week. We obviously ended up talking about other stuff. We were talking about going, you know, Matt Brown jail adventures.

But I did want to bring this up last week, and it's kind of what's funny we were talking about. It's like the danger of heavyweight and something that Curtis Blades talked about with me was, you know, just there's just more. inherent risk at heavyweight because you could be the best guy in the world, get caught with a punch, you get put down. And that's why I always said, I think John Jones is the greatest mixed martial arts

in all the time. Now, I'm not opening the conversation of like the PED stuff. If you have that against him, I understand I'm not holding that against you. I'm just saying like in terms of skill and accomplishment, the two things combined, I think John Jones is at the top because the one thing he has over George St. Pierre is he's never lost. I mean, he never, he's never been beaten. You could argue he had a close fight with Gustafson once, and he had a close fight with Dominic Reyes.

He didn't get put down. He didn't get knocked out. He didn't get submitted. So I always have John number one. But I always said the biggest risk John could take was going to heavyweight because his skills, as you said, like Demetrius Johnson, like you can't do that. Now, I know, light heavyweight is not that far away. But even that, you're giving up, you know, size power. John Jones can be the best mixed martial arts in the world.

You get caught with the right hand you don't see coming and you're down and out because that's the day. injury or heavyweight. So when everyone complains about John, like not fighting Tom Aspinall versus going for the Steepi Miochich fight, does Stebei present as much risk as Tom Aspinall? No, but not because Stebebe isn't as good. It's because Tom isn't as well known. I like Tom Aspinall. It's not a knock on Tom Aspinall.

And they're a hardcore fan base. He's going to say, what are you talking about? Everyone knows Tom Aspinall. I promise you, a lot of casual fans do not know Tom Aspinall. That is a riskier fight because you're going against a guy. that isn't as well known, isn't as well established, doesn't have the credentials, versus Steppe Miochich, who is the longest reigning UFC heavyweight champion of all time, one of the bigger names in the sport, everyone knows Steepa.

That's a legacy fight. And I'm not saying that Tom doesn't have a reason to be upset that he's fighting Curtis Blades versus John Jones. I get that from Tom's perspective. But I understand where John's coming from. He's fighting what we've all called the greatest heavyweight in UFC history. and you could argue maybe the greatest heavyweight in history. You want to put him alongside Fador or whoever.

And that's going to be a bigger fight. And it's a legacy fight for John. I don't know how people have that much of a problem in fighting Steepa. I just don't understand that. Yeah, I don't take any of my shit have a problem with what everybody's doing. They're all doing the best,

what's the best business for themselves. And that's what they're in business for is himself, right? This is an individual sport. So there's nothing to hate on there. You know, we understand where John's coming from. understand where steepe's coming from, where Aspinall is coming from. I mean, yeah, I'm with you. There's nothing to be mad about here.

You know, I would personally, I think all of us, hardcore fans, would rather see John fight Tom Aspinall, right? We know that that's probably the tougher fight for him right now. But we can't hate on John for doing what he's doing either. You know, if we're in John's position, that's what we're doing. I guarantee you. You know, go for the greatest. ever.

You know, as long as he keeps at this, especially at this point, like, he's already been through the prime of his career, right? I mean, maybe, maybe he's in his prime now. But, like, he's already beat all the world champions, all the former champions.

Like, dude, you don't really have anything left to prove. You're going up to heavyweight just to put a stamp on shit. So, yeah, go for the fucking big dog, right? Go for the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Why go for the, you know, what would you call it like the, the current hot guy, right? You know what I mean?

Yeah. Like Tom Aspenall could lose to Curtis Blades. And it's like, okay, what would have been the point of John Jones fighting him, you know? Yeah. Well, it reminds me of, and I'm bringing up, this is like sacrilege. I'm going to lose half the audience is going to get pissed to me for saying this. because people have revisionist history in the sport we all do. But George St. Pierre, do you remember how pissed all people got to George St. Pierre, quote-unquote, hand-picked Michael Bisping?

Because he was seen as an easier opponent. And then he gave up the belt when Robert Whitaker was standing there as the other champion. They're like, oh, George St. Pierre, what a pussy. You stepped away before you fight Robert Whitaker, the real champion. You took on the easier fight, blah, blah, blah. A few years later, how do we hold George St. Pierre? one of the greatest fighters to ever do it. We don't even think about that.

We don't even blink about that. That's the point here. John's fighting the bigger fight. I'm sorry, Tom. Steepa's a bigger fight. It is. They're doing it Madison Square Garden. He's going to sell more pay-per-views.

Steepa's more established. And also, one thing I want to defend Stepe on here, just so people know, when John got hurt with the torn peck muscle last November, and they called in Tom to fight Sergei. Sergei was the backup. Remember, Sergei was the guy who was training as the backup for that fight. They never offered Stepe the fight. They never called, Dana White said publicly,

that would be an insult to Stepe to have him step in on short notice and fight a new guy for an interim title. They knew the fight that Steepa really wanted what everyone really wanted was him and Jones. How is it Stepe's fault? They didn't offer it to him. Maybe he would have taken it. Maybe it would have been him and Sergei and Tom Aspinall didn't have an interim title right now. Yeah, that's true. You know, there's always two sides to every fight, right? There's the business side, how much money is it going to make and then there's kind of the warrior side right like am I going to go test myself against

the best you know at this time right and of course the fans they don't care about the business side they want to be the best fights that's why everybody loves the UFC they put together the best fucking fights the boxers they usually go for the big money fight and now

some of the fighters with more and more money becoming involved they're doing it more like a business John Jones is out there to make a paycheck. He's doing business. He's approved himself. He's one of the fucking best ever.

So I understand all sides of this equation. But the fans need to realize that there is another side, right? They only know the emotional side. That's what gets them into the sport. And look, 99% of these guys don't give a shit about the business. Or they do, but they're not picking bites based off the business. What's going to make me the most money? You've got the gauges out there.

got the max holloways the guys that are just willing to fight uh any day anywhere anytime for real and then you got the guys that are going to be you know i mean it's not like john jones wasn't like that for what 10 15 years but he's not at that point and now he's like look get me the biggest fight for the most money and you can't hate on that john fought the guys who were the tom aspinalls of his division at the time he fought He fought Dominic Gray's. He fought Tiago Santos. He fought Anthony Smith.

He fought the guys who were the hot up-and-comers, the guys who were making noise, getting big knockouts. And he fought those guys. And he didn't really get anything out of it. He'd already beaten the Machitas and the rampages and the Rashads and the Daniel Cormier's. He wasn't going to get nearly as much for beating and fighting Tiago Santos. But he did. So he's done this. I don't understand how you can now sit here and say, oh, he's afraid of Tom Asper.

He's not afraid of Tom Aspenol. he sees that Steve A is a bigger fight, going to get him a much bigger paycheck, and at the end of the day, when he retires, and if he retires after the fight, which I think it's entirely possible he does, he now has the winningest heavyweight UFC champion on his record

to go along with being the greatest light heavyweight of all time. Guess what? You're just cementing yourself as the greatest fighter ever. That's all he's doing right. He's just adding a couple little extra checkmarks on his list before he pieces out. Well, those same people that are complaining about that can't wait to see Jake Paul fight Mike Tyson.

That's true. So, you know, these people are pretty fucking irrelevant, you know. And they want to see 57, 58-year-old Mike Tyson fight a fucking YouTuber. Oh, my God. I watched those press conferences last week, and I got so depressed. I'm just like, good God, what are we doing? This is just... So cringe, man.

Jake Paul trying to fucking be hard on Mike Tyson. Jesus Christ. Can't do that, bro. But, I mean, for one, it's Mike Tyson. And like, for two, 20 years, you wouldn't do that 20 years, 30 years ago, you know, when you were born. If you were an adult right then, you wouldn't even have thought about that. Like, Mike Tyson would have fucked you until you loved him. Somebody posted, I think it was either before or after the last press conference they did in Texas.

And they were talking, they posted like a Mike Tyson high reel. Now, I grew up in the area, Tyson. Like I grew up in the air where we used to switch wires to watch pay-per-views at home because we couldn't actually buy them so you flipped the wires on your cable box. And I remember watching him knocked a piss out of Trevor Burbank. And somebody posted the fight, what was it, Marvis Frazier, when Joe Frazier was talking shit, saying that Tyson wasn't that good. And so he threw his son in there.

And Tyson just fucked him up six ways to Sunday. And I'm like, dude, that was one of that. Listen, I know, like, you've had, I know we've had this conversation on the show before. Mike Tyson was incredible He's not the best heavyweight of all time He never was he's a great heavyweight But he was never number one Just put that out there

But during that short period of time When he was the heavyweight champion He was the scariest motherfucker Maybe ever, ever in boxing And like that guy would chew up Spit out and shit Jake Paul Like in seconds And you gotta be careful with that whole

Greatest everything he was Of course he was not the greatest ever in terms of accomplishments. In terms of scariest, most intimidating, and very possibly the actual baddest boxer ever for a short amount of time, but very possibly the baddest guy that ever step into a boxing ring.

That was Mike Tyson. Like, there's no doubt about it. I can't think of anybody that people feared as much as they feared Mike Tyson. Yeah, he was, he was terrifying. He was a terrifying human being. Yeah, and everything about him was terrified. His shit talk was terrified.

Like, every woman reporter was terrified of him. And every, did you ever hear the story about when he punched a hole in the wall? And Michael Spake's head was on the other side of it? I think I do, I do remember hearing this story. I think I think I remember that one. Yeah, you know, he was, they were like checking on his wraps, right? I think that's what it was. They're charmed's raps, and Michael Spinks' corner was complaining about him, whatever,

and it made Tyson all pissed off. And Spinks is over there getting his hands wrapped just, you know, he's got to fight Mike Tyson, right? He's going up to heavy weight, scared out of his fucking mind already. And then Mike Tyson punches a hole in the wall because he's mad. And his fist comes, like, right next to him. Michael Speake's head. Like he's just like I I've been in locker rooms.

I know the way it feels, the nerves that and you're going out there to fight Mike Tyson. Then he punches a hole right next to your head before you even step out there. And then he walks out with the, that was when he came out with the no music or the really wide dark music or whatever wearing the all black cut off hoodie shit. It was just, you know. just Mike Tyson, right? Like, he made that look epic, right?

And I remember there was a comedian. I think it was Damon Wayans, who became an actor. But he used to be a comedian back in the 90s. And I remember he did a skit. He was doing a comedian thing he talked about because he was on that show. Do you remember living color that show when we were kids and living colors? Yeah, of course. He did a, his brother, Keenan Ivory Wayans, did a Mike Tyson impression on the show.

And he was always, like, terrified he was going to run into Mike Tyson on the street. And he said he ran into him one time. And he did an impression of him. but he said he had Michael Spinks with him and he said, he did Tyson's voice. He's like, tell him what you said Michael Spinks and Michael Spinks said, well, I said the other side. I don't know.

He was just talking in jibberish because Tyson beat him up so bad. He couldn't fucking talk straight anymore. And it was so funny, but like that's like, Spinks was just like, dude, he, he, like, I don't think Michael Spinks was ever the same again. Like that was just Mike Tyson, when he hit you in those days,

you were never the same again. You did not come back the same person after Mike Tyson knocked you out. Yeah, that's it. We've got to remember, like you said earlier, look, his accomplishments, no, he wasn't the best ever. And that's when you talk about best ever, that's what you look at, his accomplishments. But Jake Paul thinks that because he's 57 years old, that that's going to be what settles him down. Like, I think the worst thing that Jake Paul could do is going to talk shit to Mike Tyson like he's doing.

Yeah. And it just doesn't add up to me. Like, this guy, like, Mike Tyson is. an old stoner at this point. Like he's a podcaster. Like he doesn't give a fuck about fighting. He's getting there to make money. But now you want to awaken that old beast.

Like what in the fucking hell are you thinking, bro? Yeah, that's... I don't care if he's 60 years old. Dude, I was trained with Coleman at 60 all the time. I don't want to get hit by Coleman, bro. I don't care how that motherfucker is. Yeah, when he got fired up, when he... Like, the first press comments, they're all kind of, you know,

they're all kind of congenial. And, you know, I love you, Mike. no, blah, blah, blah. It was all nice. But that second press conference, he started talking shit. And Tyson was just like, yeah, I'm going to end your life. And I'm like, oh, fuck. Like, that's the last guy you want to hear that from because Tyson might actually murder

you in the ring. Yeah, I don't get the thought process here. Jake Paul usually seems pretty smart with everything, pretty calculated with everything he's doing and smart about it. But if there's one guy, you don't want to wake up the fucking savage killer inside. Like, it's Mike fucking Tyson. Yeah, I, the first, the one thing he did at the first press conference, he said something about, uh, uh, he better be ready to fight for his life because he will be. It was just very casual the way he said it.

But I was like, I wrote a headline for my story and I ended up writing something else. But I was originally, my original headline was Mike Tyson still knows how to say terrifying things. Because like, when Mike Tyson speaks, you listen. And when he says, like, he'll just say it very casual. Like, yeah, I'm just, I'm going to, I'm going to murder you. And you be like, oh, fuck. Like, he just, he just, when he said it, he's like, yeah, he'll be fighting for, he better be ready to fight for his life because he will be. And I was like, oh, shit.

Like, this is, this is not good for Jake Paul. The funny thing about Tyson is he can say fucking anything. And it doesn't surprise you. Like when he said, he watched him on Mickey Mouse channel or something. He's like, I don't want to fuck you. He's just like, yeah, that's Mike Tyson, you know? Yeah. Yeah, dude.

Says pitipeliac shit. and what he actually means is he wanted to kill you, but yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I still don't know if it's going to end well for Mike. He is going to be 58 years old and, you know, there's age happens for everyone. You can't out run father time. But will there ever be a moment where more people will be rooting for one fighter than people will be rooting for Mike Tyson in that fight? Like that might be the most lopsided fight ever.

Yeah, I mean, that's why it was a smart move on Jake Paul's part, you know, to get the fight. booked, right? He's going to make a fucking big payday, good for him. If he goes out there and get starched, you know, I don't know where he goes from here. I mean, we always say that he's got somewhere to go, I'm sure, but, but damn, bro, like, you about to get starched by a 60-year-old. It's bad news, man. Yeah, I mean, at least, at least he can fall back on. I got starched by a 60-year-old Mike Tyson, you know, he can get starched by a 60-year-old fucking, you know, some other random dude. He goes, Mike Tyson still holds some weight. People still love him.

And he can go fight fucking KSI or some other random influencer and get some money that way. But I don't think there will ever be more people rooting for one fighter to win than people will be rooting for Mike Tyson to win, honestly. Outside of like the teams. What's the date on this fight? July 20th, I think is the date. Yeah. So. I just hope Mike comes in shape, you know, like win or lose.

I hope he just comes in shape and ready to actually fight. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know. I'm so. I'm just I'm so like I don't know how to feel about this like my head I'm like this is a terrible idea he's 58 years old and he's not really he hasn't had a professional fight since the since the 90s I just none of that sounds good unless you got the Roy Jones sparring match yeah but in that I'll be honest he looked great I was shocked how good he looked in that match even though it was a sparring match and granted Roy Jones you know when he fought Anthony Pettish you're kind of like yeah I don't know Joe Jones I don't know but uh But in that match, he looked great. When I see a guy like Mark Coleman,

it comes in my gym all the time, 60 years old, you know, around the age of Mike Tyson, you know, 58, 50, something like that. I don't remember exactly how old he is, but close to 60. And the abuse that he's done to his body through the drugs, alcohol, you know,

not training for years. And then I see him train. It gives me hope for Mike Tyson. is Mike Tyson I don't think he's badly abused his body as Coleman has dude Coleman's still fucking got a lot in him and when you you think of three Catholics like the two of them yeah Mike Tyson might still have it bro and that's why I'm saying if Jake Paul wants to awaken that inner animal

because that's what calms down the most I think people talk about like your speed goes first and your power stays all that kind of shit honestly what goes first I think for a lot of people is your mind Right? Just that that that that bloodthirsty hunger. Yeah, that's what goes first for most people or you get comfortable in there, you know, things like that. And that's how you want to keep Mike Tyson. Look, be comfortable with your life, bro. You got a podcast.

You got money. Like chill. You grow and weed. Like go get stone and hang out. And then we'll play around out here, you know. You don't want to awaken that fucking 25 year old that's instill in them. I don't get the idea of trying to do that. That is not the motherfucking animal that you want to be poking.

I remember I came up to your gym a couple years ago. You were in training camp. I was shooting some video. Mickey Gall was there. Actually, I texted with Mickey today. He's fighting coming up in a couple weeks at the Jersey show. And Colman was teaching. So I was just there watching the class.

And Colvin was on the match wrestling. And I was just like, even then I was amazed. I was like, Jesus Christ, he still moves. Like so, like, and this is after two hippermis. replacements. He's still moving around and fucking 41. No, I'm saying. At the time, he had two. He had two every place with the time. And it's, I was like, this is fucking unbelievable. This is unbelievable what he's doing right now. At that point, he had to be like 55 or whatever age it was. This was a few years ago. Even then I was just, how was like, how is he doing this? You should not be able to physically do this. So,

you're right. You're absolutely right. Coleman might be the inspiration to just spur us on. And maybe, maybe Mike Tyson can get this shit done. Yeah, I'm telling you, man. If the mind is there, I don't know how much. I mean, the age is obviously going to slow him down some. Like, he's not going to be explosive like he was 20. I know that I'm not an idiot. But if his mind is there, and Jake Paul might be bringing his fucking mind there. That's bad news, bro.

That's bad, bad news for Jake Paul. And we've seen one thing from Jake Paul, and he can deny it all he wants. Jake Paul's never been like a cardio machine. He's actually faded in some of his fights. if he if he and this is eight rounds two minute rounds just saying you're giving Tyson a little bit of the room there like I'm not saying this is good for Tyson to go you know into the seventh and eighth round and still trying to knock him out but Jake's never been exactly a

conditioning machine and now he's putting on like 30 extra pounds I don't know just throw out some ideas here yeah and Jake Paul's mainly got a right hand right that's what we all I've seen so far as they're going to get right Mike Tyson hasn't been hit by a lot of right hands. You know, like that's not like his weakness, so to speak, when you look at his style. Like, that's not, you know, the cheek in his armor. Yeah, well, the guys who beat Tyson later in his career,

the Evander Holyfields and Lennox Lewis, they pieced him up because they were that much better boxers. They were skilled technical boxers and also being good heavyweights. Like I said, Lennox Lewis might have. Yeah, well, Holterr, grinded with them, right? and just ground them out in the Linux Lewis, you know, jab them. Yeah, but Jake Paul can't do that. Jake Paul is not that skill.

Jake Paul is not going to, Evander Holyfield him. Jake Paul is not Lennox Lewis. I'm just saying. Yeah, I mean, yeah, not even close. We'll see, we'll see. All right. We got plenty more to talk about. Of course, next week we're going to be doing our UFC 302 preview.

We already talked a little bit about Islam and Dustin last week, but we'll talk about that fight, kind of give our predictions whose career we can fuck up with our predictions next week. And then Paul O'Costa and Sean Strickland, a couple other good fights on there. So we'll do all that next week, do our picks and predictions. I'm just, I'm living on the high that we both picked Alexander Ucicki and he won. I was like, I just assumed we cursed him by picking him,

but both of us picking him. So maybe we won't condemn whoever we pick next week. Because any time we agree, it just goes wrong. Usually if one of us gets it right, that's okay. But if we both pick the same guy, It usually ends in disaster. So, Ussick, you lived through the fighter versus the writer curse by going out there beating Tyson Fury. Maybe he's the one.

Maybe he broke the curse. Maybe we'll just get it right from now on. Yeah, well, what they say? Broken Clock is right twice a day. Fuck yeah. There you go. Matt, you got all kinds of stuff going on. Where can people support you?

Where can people check out what you got going on? You know, you can support me. I'm the immortal on Instagram and Twitter at the Immortal Coffee. At Immortal martial arts. I guess I should be tagging that out there too, even though, you know, it's more of the local thing. There's any local Columbus people. Come check out the gym.

Check out my creatine gummies at try underscore create. And or get you a new sign up from at Redwood Outdoors Co. There you go. All right, folks. We'll be back next week for another episode of the podcast. As always, check out the podcast on all your favorite podcast platform. Apple Podcast, Spotify, and of course, over on the best website in the world. MAAfighting.com.

For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to lux beauty and fragrance sets, our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com.

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