MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Gives Ronda Rousey Advice After Latest Comments on Holly Holm Plus Eddie Hearn vs. Dana White

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to Ronda Rousey’s latest comments saying she would demolish Holly Holm in a rematch but adding that she’s retired and the fight is never going to happen. Is Rousey just consistently shooting herself in the foot with these kinds of comments? Plus we talk about Eddie Hearn “daring” Dana White to release Tom Aspinall from his contract, Darren Till’s BKFC debut, Song Yadong’s big win and much more! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's different out here. Visit NCL.com, call your travel advisor, or 1-888-NCL Cruise. Norwegian Cruise Line, Chips Registry, the Bahamas and USA. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu, it's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier,

CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a friday, of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odu for free at Odu.com. That's ODOO.com. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown and Matt. We were coming off kind of a weird weekend where the UFC had a show in Macau. I'll be honest. I didn't watch much of it. I watched highlights because it took place at 7 o'clock in the morning. That's your witching hour, but not for me. I'm very much asleep during the 7 a.m. time.

but you know Song Yadong got a win over Devison Figuero. Sergey Pavlovich got a big knockout so a couple wins but obviously like I said I just watched the highlights then yesterday Darren Till made his BKFC debut had a nasty knockout

really looking good in that and then RAF last night obviously now we're looking towards Colby Covington versus on the Saruka and so yeah not a big weekend but you know there's some things going on no that's a pretty good weekend I think actually you know not a lot of gigantic names you know outside of

being Chris, which, I mean, you know, they're wrestling, so not quite as big in that front. But, man, first off, you know, I mean, we could go through all that. This is made for a pretty interesting weekend overall, right? And what's his name? Song, dude, you got to give credit a creditor to do, man. Come on. Like, he submitted Davidson. You know, we all thought he could definitely punch him up on the feed and win a decision or knock him out.

But submitting him with that guillotine, that was the, and I think there's good a lot of questions now as to where Davidson is career-wise, right, mentality-wise. I mean, he doesn't seem like the Davidson of old, but he's moved up a weight class, and maybe that just wasn't the right move for him. You know, I guess there's a lot more questions and answers there at this point, because, I mean, is that three in a row now? Yeah, three, three. I think it's three in a row.

Yeah, it's not been great for him. And I like Song-e-Dong very much. He's still young. He's 28, I think. But, you know, we've kind of seen, like, his ceiling a little bit. Like, he's had, like, you know, he's gotten into bigger fights, but he lost to Sean him out. bigger fights than he fights this guy. He's kind of like been that number six guy.

You know, he can't quite crack that top five in terms of band's ways. So it's like, I don't know, like, this is cool for him to fight close to home in China, but like I don't really know that we'd learn that much that we didn't already know about him. Like getting a win over Devesant's a good win. But as you said, Devison doesn't look like the Deveson, who is the flyweight champion, look like an absolute killer out there. But, you know, like I said, I mean, you know, these cards are going to happen where you get a hometown guy, gets a hometown fight, Maybe he's not a top two or three guy, but is what is. I'll tell you what the one that I was really impressed by is Sergey,

because, you know, we were talking about Sergey for a long time in this show, and he had that knockout, lost to Tom Aspinall. They had that kind of ugly fight where he lost to Volkov. He's bounced back, got some wins, and, you know, knocked a piss out of Dallas into Sharon in, like 38 seconds. He's so needed right now because the heavyweight division is just so bad right now. Like, we need a guy like Pavlovich, who's going to go out there and just knock people into next week. and like I'm glad I'm not I wasn't rooting for him necessarily but like I'm glad he went out there and kind of had that kind of fight because now you got Hokka fight at the White House. You know, you got

other guys out there, but obviously we're all kind of waiting for Tom Aspinall to come back, but like, you want more guys to like start getting in line because remember Aspinall and Sergey fought on super short notice, you know, neither guy was really ready for that moment. And, you know, maybe they rematch down the road or something. Maybe Sergey gets Pereira or

Gagne. We just need more options, I guess, what I'm getting at. Yeah, I agree. And I mean, I think if Hokit wins this fight, I mean, how about Hokit versus Sergei? I mean, I think that's a tremendous fight. That's certainly an interesting fight. Hokeet makes every fight interesting. I mean, you know, he's got to get through the White House first, right?

Who's he fight? I'm not remembering. Derek. Derek Lewis. Yeah. Derek. Yeah. I mean, he's got to get through that first. But what, I mean, what a perfect step up right after from Derek, you know, if he beats him, moving up to Sergei, you know, both more strikers and

yeah, and that really gives a Hockeet a path to, you know, if he beats Sergey, I mean, I think that's a straight a path straight to the title, right? I mean, I'm, you know, you know I feel about Hokka's antics, I'm just not a fan of his goofy, like rhymes and some of the dumb stuff he does, but I think he's

28, 29 years old, like a little youth injection in a division that's always been traditionally older. Heavy weights always tend to lean older when they get in their primes. So I'm not, like I said, I'm not rooting for the guy, but he's kind of what we need right now. We need a younger, you know, you can't always depend on

everyone's like, or John Jones. Like, John Jones is turning 40. Like, dude, let the guy stay retired. We want to stay retired. We can't depend on that guy. We need to hopefully get some youth. And Hokit may be the best hope for that. So like him or hate him, he gets a lot of attention.

And he does put on an exciting fight. So, you know, Hokit and Sergey or Hokkaid and Volkov or then there's, you know, options. I can't stop using that word. We need options in this division. Yeah. I mean, as far as I can tell, he put on a exciting fight, right? That was, I don't, I've never watched his other fights, but I watched the Curtis Blades fight.

So, you know, I don't know what his other fights were like. But with that said, yeah, like you said, I mean, he's a love him or hate him. Like people talk about him, right? And that injects some life into that division. 100%. It needs it, man. We need someone to go beat Derek Lewis and Sergey Pavlovich back to back. And I love both those guys.

It's like no hate on, you know, those guys. But we need someone on like a winning streak, you know, whether it's somebody talking. stupid shit that isn't entertaining but gets people talking or whether it's you know a quiet guy who's coming in and just being a silent killer and it's needed hoka could very well be that guy and you know the one thing that i think the UFC recognizing we all recognize is if he does have this success i mean he's going to make a lot of noise right i mean there's uh again it may not be enjoyable it might be colby style or or or Worse.

Worse. Or worse. You know, it may be whatever it is. But it's going to make noise. And the heavyweight division could really fucking use it. Yeah, I really, really could. And, you know, I know you mentioned, like, you know, we got Gable. Gable Steve since coming up, July 11th, his debut.

You got Alex Pereira still, too. Yeah. So, you know, it's not. Heavyweight's never been, like, an incredibly deep division except for, like, when Pride was around. But even then, when they did a 60-man tournament, you had to throw in, like, Zulu. like guys who had no business being in there. We just need like six or seven guys. Even, yeah, even in pride.

I mean, we talk about how deep it was, but realistically it was like five guys that were just, they just happened to be really, really good guys, some of the best heavyweights ever. But there were still only like five of them. You know what I mean? It wasn't like a 10, 12, 15 deep division, like a welterweight or flyweight or something.

Yeah, definitely like Bant's weight. There's divisions that go 15 deep. That's what I was thinking of. Yeah. But, you know, I agree. And like I said, if we get five or six, you know, you have Pereira goes out there. And I don't know if prayer is going to be gone. We'll talk about that next week when we do our White House breakdown.

But, you know, if he wins, I mean, Pereira is a massive star. You know, he's a massive, massive, massive star, and, you know, that vaults that division even higher because how big of a star Pereira is. You do Pereira and Aspinall, that's a monster fight. It's a monster, monster fight. And then you get a guy like Gable Steve said, obviously they're not going to throw him into a title fight, two fights in, even though you and I both agree he could probably do it. but I'm saying, like, they're going to bring him along a little slower.

And then by next year, you're talking about you have, like, a legit Olympic gold medalist who could be a heavyweight champion. And we've said people probably get mad at us saying constantly he's the future. But that's what you need. You need a guy like that. Like, there's actually some youth. So, yeah, like, Hokit coming in. And if Pavlovich can keep doing what he's doing as a veteran, yeah, like, actually inject some excitement because I'll be honest. The last, like, year of heavyweight fights, unless it's, like, one of the top of 300 guys,

I just kind of like cringe when I see the names like, oh, God, here we go. So, you know, hopefully this is, you know, I'm not going to say it's going to be like the Renaissance heavyweight, but hopefully it's just a good start of like five or six guys. We'll need more than that and, you know, we go out there and have some fun. So, and Gabe will, you know, debut in July 11th. I can't wait for that, of course. Yeah, that's really exciting. And, you know, who knows what's going to happen with Pereira gone.

I think, you know, again, we'll get into that next week. But I think this division, you know, has a lot of different directions. that it could take. I mean, I think it's a very different division if Hokic goes in with the title shop deserved or not, you know, and gets the title versus Pereira having the title, even versus gone having a title. Like, you know, these, yeah, I guess these would all be interim titles. But, but, you know, like this, I feel like it's kind of wide open, or it's kind of a wide open hole right now that it's kind of open for the taking for someone to come fill that hole. Yeah, real quick, I wanted to mention this anyway, so we'll just talk about it because you live a lot closer to the boxing world than I do. So obviously you've probably heard of or been around or, you know, heard about stories about Eddie Hearn for much longer than I have. And I admit, like I said, I don't know, don't know Eddie, never talked to him, haven't met him, have no idea outside of the promotion he does. And obviously the guys who work with him, guys like Anthony Josh would love working for him. But of course, as we mentioned, I can't remember whatever it was a few months ago that he started managing and helping Tom Aspinall.

And of course, he's kind of been a bitter few with Dana White over boxing right now because of Zufa boxing. But he did an interview recently and he talked about how egregiously bad Tom Aspinall's contract was and how much more money he could get on the open market. And he basically said, I dare Dana to release him and I'll show you what I could do. Now, my first reaction, Matt, was like, did you really just dare Dana White to release his heavyweight champion from contract? Because there's more of a chance to be sprouting wings and flying off this podcast than that happening. but I don't like I don't want to get into like the deep part of like fighter pay

we could have that conversation all day and all night but does it feel a little bit like maybe like Hearn is overvaluing Aspinol to the way that like we talked about Inganu like when Inganu left he got paid a lot of money and good for him by the way I'm not faulting or getting paid a lot of money but we always talked about like as great as Ingano was he was never a massive draw he was never a huge draw

like when he got he paid 1.5 million and obviously we don't know what the actual back end or whatever money was available. But you got to pay $1.5 million to fight Philippe Lins. Now, that's good money, and I guarantee the UFC wouldn't go pay him $1.5 million to fight Philippe Lins in the UFC. But, like, I don't know. What do you make him, Eddie Huron, like, talking about, like, he could get triple. I care where the number he said.

It's a ridiculous number how much he could get Tom Aspin on the open market. I'm like, Tom Aspinel has one fight on the open market, and that's Francis Inganu. Like, he's not going into boxing because Tom's not, like, Tom's not a bad. bad boxer, but he's not even in Ghana. He didn't have that, like, nuclear power in his hands where you kind of, like, get a little, little bit of that, like, Deonté Wilder field to him. So Tom is a mixed martial artist. He's an MMA fighter.

There's one fight. One. And then he's fighting Philippe Lin. So, like, I don't know, like, Eddie's talking. I guess he's paid to talk, but I'm just like, let's slow down and, like, think, I'm not, I'm not knocking Tom Aspiram. I'm just saying, like, heavyweight's so bad right now. There's really no option out there besides Inganu.

Yeah, no shit, right? to answer your first question, my opinion, is he's not necessarily overvaluing Tom Aspinall. I think that's to be seen. I think he's overvaluing his role as a manager of a UFC fighter, though. And I don't think he really understands how this works. It's not boxing. It is a different world. And I don't know, man.

I feel like Dana's not the guy that you really want to have the feud with, you know, especially like Dana coming into boxing this. time right now like Dana's like close friends with the president you know I mean like Dana's not really that guy you want you know like you better have all the cards stacked in your favor if you're going to go talk shit to Dana White you know I mean like you want to start talking having problems with Dana like you better have your fucking ducks in a row and clearly he didn't right and I like Eddie heard I'm not telling a shit about him I'm saying like what did Dana do he went and grabbed his top star and had him fight for him.

Eddie's response is, okay, well, I'm going to manage your guy. You know, and it's like, like, that's not like, like, you're losing there. So Eddie's like, well, we'll fight or whatever. And it's like, you know, we're not teenagers. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, he's in a tough situation, man. Here's my thing. And I don't, like, there's nothing wrong with Eddie talking, but here's my thing.

You think about, like, in the NFL, where guys are obviously making more money or major league baseball or NBA. Like, you never hear from the agents ever. Like, they never talk. They never do interviews. They just kind of stay behind the scenes. And then you read about how they got their guy paid ridiculous. Like, Joe Burrow is my guy. I'm a Bengals fan.

I'm a big Bingles fan. I think I've heard his agent's name once or twice, but I didn't really know anything about him. But what I heard was he got paid five years for $285 million or whatever, the biggest contract in the NFL history at the time. that to me, I'm not saying Eddie shouldn't talk because obviously that's just, it's a different role for boxing in combat sports promoters. But like, if you really want to get paid, you really want to get Tom paid,

why not when he's healthy and his eyes are good to go and you're setting him up to fight Alex Prayer or Cyril gone for the rematch, why aren't you just quietly going in there and getting him to better deal? Because all you're doing is starting a combative relationship on day one. And that's just going to make the UFC, Dana Wyatt, Hunter Campbell. They're going to dig their feet into dirt that much harder

to not give you what you. want. Well, and that's where I said, like, these aren't the guys that you want to be messing with, right? Especially, you know, when you ain't got all your ducks in a row. And it's almost like Dana played the Connor game on him. Like, he got his emotions, Eddie's emotions route up, and now Eddie's making bad business decisions based off of those emotions. And look, I think Eddie Hurons a very smart guy. I think he's a great promoter, and I think he's, you know, a well-spoken. Like, I think he represents his guys well. I think he represents his promotion well.

It seems to me in this little feud here, like Dana's pulling the worst out of him. You know what I mean? Like, this doesn't, I mean, of course, I don't know Eddie personally, but all these types of things that he's doing publicly and saying and, like, it doesn't feel to me like this is authentic. It feels like Dana is pulling emotions out of him. as as it and which tells me like okay well Dana's win in the game then and that's that's my exact point is like these aren't the guys you want to fuck with like like you just you got to do your

thing really well allow them to do their thing really well and and stay side by side right you try feuding like Dana's an old school gangster you know what I mean like you know you grew up in whitey bulger times in Boston you know what I'm saying Yeah. Like, I just don't feel like it's the, the guy you want to fuck with. Well, and it's also like, look at, like, look at the deal that Connor McGregor just did. Like, it took up a long time to finally come to a deal. We don't know what the deal was.

Yeah, I was probably never. Yeah, I was about to say to even know what the deal was. We don't. We don't. But, like, they got it done, obviously. And Connor, you know, Connor went on Twitter a couple times, but he never, like, took shots to the UFC. He's just like, I'm ready to go.

I want to fight. He never said, like, they're fucking me over or they're giving me a shitty deal. He never took it to that place. and he's just like, I want to fight, and Dana's like, we're going to get it done. They got it done. Now he's coming back. Now I have no idea what Connor's getting paid. I'm sure he's getting a big-ass paycheck as he should.

I don't know if he saw ticket sales. Like, there's all like $25,000 tickets and they're selling out. Like, so it's going to be a massive gate. Like, Connor's still a superstar. But, like, they didn't take it to the court of public opinion with him being like, oh, they're only going to make me do this or that, you know. And we were talking about, like, you know, are they doing him a favor, giving him Max Holloway?

You know, from what his manager said, you know, they wanted to give Michael handled the fight because they felt he earned it because he had to wait so long and never got it but you know they said hey they wanted max holloway so that's what they got but we never heard it go public they never went in there and started war on Twitter and shit like they're just they handled their business and I'm sure

Connor got paid Connor's a smarter note you can rip on Connor for a lot of things you can't say he's a dumb businessman he didn't I guarantee he didn't sign his contract for a fucking $500,000 payday so but like I just I'm not saying Eddie Huron's dumb in doing this I'm not insulting the guy I'm just saying like I don't know that it's

really going to get you the end result which you want, which is getting Tom Aspinall more money. If Tom Aspinall comes back and it's Alex Prairie's champion because Alex is a massive superstar, they're going to give him more money. It's going to be a bigger fight. It's just the natural nature of the business. They're going to give him more, but probably more than a gone fight because God's not a big star and they've already seen gone fight for the time like nine times the UFC. Or like if Gable Steven becomes a superstar that I think he will become, that's a bigger fight.

They're going to pay you more for those bigger fights because Tom has not quite been that, He's a big draw in England, but, you know, kind of like that question for long and something, how would Anthony Joshua would do in America because he's not as well-known in America? So I'm not saying, like, he shouldn't peek out for his guy. I'm just saying, like, I don't know if you're picking the right battle here by doing it. And saying dare him to release him his contract. Dude, there is zero chance. There is zero chance of that happening even if you never said it.

The fact that you just said it tells me they are going to dig their heels in even deeper to make sure he never gets out of contract. Right. It doesn't, I don't get the math here that. he's adding up in his head, you know, and, you know, maybe there's shit going on that I don't understand either, but it just doesn't add up from everything we're seeing in public and what he's saying publicly. And, you know, I don't even know what he's going to do with Tom Aspinall, you know, I don't know. Like you said, what would he even expect to do with him?

He's going to put him in a boxing match. I mean, he said, there's really one real fight out there that people are going to want to see him in. And I mean, I guess there may be two, right? Maybe they want to see him. Rico Verhoeven now. I think that'd be kind of cool personally, but whatever. You know, it's not, again, you know, are they going to rebuild them as a boxing star? I mean, I think that's an uphill battle.

And if I'm not mistaken, I mean, Tom started as a jiu-tzu guy, right? Yeah, he started as a ground guy and he's at a boxing. He's got, I mean, he's got good boxing. He's got good enough boxing for MMAs. It's a real bit like, like there's a vast difference between that and going in and fighting Moses Atama or something like, or, you know, Ouzi. Again, we saw what, you know, Ingana, like, yes,

Inganu came very, very close to beating Fury on, I'm not trying to negate the win. Actually, I thought he won the fight, but, like, Fury clearly wasn't at his best. That's kind of a knock on Tyson Fury. And Verhoeven, say what you want about Rika Verhoeven, like that's what he's done. He spent the last, like, 20 years of a striker.

Now, granted, it wasn't straight up boxing, but he's an elite striker. That's a lot different than being an elite striker for MMA. So, you know, I don't. though. I just, I don't know what the logic is because if you're going to keep him in MMA and you're going to get Netflix and Jake Paul to pay him a bunch of money to fight in Gungano, I understand, but then you got one fight. That's it. Like, you don't have to... I mean, I guess that is the other fight for Tom Aspenal is Jake Paul, right?

I mean, I can see that be a legit possibility, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know what, again, I don't know what the logic there is. And again, it comes across to me like there's a lot of emotions going on from Eddie. And that's what it feels. like you're just hearing all the news and hearing him talk it it feels like it's very emotional and and that's when you make the mistakes that's when Joseo throws a punch that he shouldn't throw and gets knocked out right I get yeah like like that's that's how this game works and that's what I feel like is going on here with Eddie and and Dana's just gonna walk right through him and as it's what

it's looking like at least and maybe Eddie'll pull some you know rabbits out of the hat somewhere but But it's looking right now, like Dana is, you know, if this is a fight, I mean, Dana's got some, you know, on the verge of like 10, eight rounds, you know? And it's like, it's like, bro, you better, you got to get a knockout now to win. It feels like, it feels like Eddie Hurons playing Russian roulette except there's five bullets to chamber. And I'm just like, yeah, yeah. I don't know if there's the odds you want when you're spinning the chamber and be like, let me pull the trigger. Like, maybe that's not the best idea.

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. We just talked about a controversial topic, so let's talk about right around. you know. There we go. Now, if I call Rhonda a loser, I'm not going to regret that as much. I'm not going to call her a loser because she's not. But if I did, and I wouldn't come back and be like, I wish I didn't say that. Yeah. Well, the only reason I'm bringing this up is because last week I had a chance to interview Holly Holmes.

She fought for a world title over the weekend. I assume you probably didn't watch the fight. No, but I heard about it. She should have won. She got kind of job by the judges. I think she should have won. won that fight. And nothing against Stephanie Haun. I just thought Holly home won the fight. But obviously, I was talking to her, and I had to bring up the Ronda thing, because obviously everyone was talking about Ronda, you know, beating Gina, and everyone was asking about Ronda coming back and find Holly. And

she's like, there's never been a time when I wouldn't have rematch her. She's like, from the day we finished that fight, I was glad to rematch her, I was always happy to rematch her. And when she said, but I don't think she will rematch me, which is what she said, but she's also, like, I think Ronda's pretty like, pretty done. Like, she wants to be done. She wanted to come back, get off a win,

and then retire again. So I don't think it's ever going to happen, but no, I'm always game. And then she also paid credit to Rhonda. She was allegedly, why does that fight, why does that knockout mean so much? Because Rhonda was so freaking dominant and so good. That's how you get a great upset. So, like, Holly literally went out of her way to say, I would never say anything negative about Rhonda.

I just, you know, if she wanted to rematch, I'd give it to her. And then unexpectedly, like, a day later, Rhonda went on another show and they actually read, they read my Holly home quote to Rhonda. And Rhonda said, well, A, I'm retired. I'm done. I'm not fighting anymore, whatever. But then she, like, in classic kind of ronda fashion, she said, and I'm quoting here, I think that I am a completely different fighter now.

I would clean her clock and definitely now that I got the new medication, which is talking about her, like, head injuries and stuff. And she's out of the house, you know, she's so much better now. And she's like, you know, she's actually able to healthy and not dealing with the, you know, not dealing with the injuries and the concussions and stuff like that. But she said, I'm better than I've ever been. I have better coaches than I ever had. I finally don't have these neurological issues that I had before.

but now that I have it set all in front of me, I've changed the things that I want have changed, and suddenly these aren't the most important things in the world of me anymore. It's her kids, blah, blah, blah. And she said, but I definitely have, I think I definitely have the ability and the opportunity to be able to clean her, to fucking clean her clock and rewrite all that, but it's no longer important to me anymore.

So Rhonda, of course, saying like she would destroy, basically destroy Holly if they meant a rematch, but it's not going to happen because she's retired. And I went on Twitter, Matt, after that story, came out and I said this is why people don't like Rhonda. Zero humility. To this day I've yet to hear Ronda say Holly beat me fair and square, great win. I'd love to get a rematch.

I'd love to knock you out. I'd love to have my revenge. None of that. I've yet to hear her say, great job, Holly. Congratulations. I don't think I've ever heard those words come out of her mouth. Now I'm hearing, I would beat you. I would clean your clock, but not going to happen because I'm retired. And I'm like, this is why people, You want to know why you go into an arena and get booed, Rhonda? This is why. This is the shit you say that gets people upset with you.

You know, not only is she not said anything with humility, but she also hasn't really said anything interesting in a very long time. And, you know, if someone come to me with this exact conversation in the gym or on the streets at a restaurant or something, I would say, cool, and walk away. But we're on a podcast, so I got to say a little more than that, right? like I wouldn't it's so uninteresting and I like I don't because it's ronda that I guess people you know it probably um it's a lot of people talking about like you probably get a lot of replies on a tweet or something but it's like that this is so uninteresting like she's so just in her own world and like it's cool she believes in herself I guess you know I guess you know the world is in her hands with that kind of belief right she'd get fucked up by holly if they fought again like yeah i don't think like it's cool that you know i mean yeah you got to believe in you know we could go through all the cliche quotes right yeah you got to believe in yourself you know even when no one else does and cool as she does okay like no one's convinced

you know that because you beat jena carrano like like who's who's you know who's you Who do you think you're full in here? And it's cool that, you know, I don't even know if she actually believes it, but she does. Like, cool, that's really good for you. You believe that. We don't. We were talking about Connor, and it reminds me when Connor fought Nate Diaz the first time,

whatever, I remember you ever seen 196. I remember asking Connor at the press conference, and I said, what, what's next? And he's like, you know what? I got humbled tonight. Maybe I'll go back to featherweight. Maybe I'll do this. You know, congratulations to Nate. He was very, like, kind of a somber tone after losing.

Cut like every other fighter in the world. Yeah, and then like two weeks later, he's back to talking shit, and I want my rematch and blah, blah, blah, but at least in that moment, he, you know, he gave credit where credit was due. Ronda's never done that, and that's the problem. Like, when she lost, and I understand she had a broken jaw or whatever after the fight, I get, you're not going. I've always said, like, when fighters get knocked out, you shouldn't interview them afterwards, let them go to the hospital and, like, whatever. But then she, like, you know, comes back, hides her face in the pillow, and then doesn't talk for, like, six months. It doesn't talk at all. And then she doesn't even talk when she comes back with her man to Nunes fights.

She's like that whole week. She doesn't do media. She doesn't press conferences. None of that. Right. If she was humble in that moment, even if it was like a month later and said, you know what, I got caught. Holly Holmes is the better fighter. You know, good for you.

Congratulations. I hope we meet again one day. Now 10 years later, she's saying, I have a much better fighter and I know I would beat you. Whatever. Like, that's normal. That's normal. You're going to have belief in yourselves. You're going to get revenge.

But she's yet to ever give, all she's ever said is I had a head injury, I had concussions, that's why I lost, and now I'm better, and I would clean her clock. At what point do you give any credit to the girl who literally knocked your head off with a head kick in one of the most brutal knockouts in UFC history? That's the problem, Rhonda. She's never said that. She's never been like humble about that. She's never shown any humility about that loss. It's been, oh, I fell down a flight of stairs before the fight, and I had these concussions. and that's why she beat me.

No, she beat you because she knocked your fucking head off with a head kick. That's why she beat you. Yeah. And you couldn't get her down. You tried. She just shut your judo down. So, like, what else? And that's the problem.

And now here's my biggest issue as you're saying, I would beat her. I would clean her clock. Great. Let's see it. Oh, no, no. I'm retired. Then don't say it. Don't say, just be like, I'm a better fighter now, but doesn't really matter because

I'm retired. Well, do you think he beat her? It doesn't matter. tired. Yeah, it's funny because you're like I mean everything you're saying is 100% correct and you're saying what everyone else feels

right? Like is he wrong as I said like she's literally the one person who just doesn't get it and you know she's her own worst enemy man she became a gigantic star and and that's great

she's certainly still a star right everybody watches her fight Gina Carano, right? She's certainly still very large name. But she's her own worst enemy. I could just imagine what she could be if she, you know, if Holly Home were in her shoes.

You know, with her, like Holly Holmes such a humble sweetheart and, you know, good person all around. Like, I feel like, you know, if Holly had and Rhonda had just flipped, swap personalities, you know, Rhonda would be the biggest star ever.

Yeah. But you never, she just shoots herself in her own foot all the time. I always go back to the conversation we had when she was on that book tour and you said, you're basically telling her, like, Rhonda, we want to love you. Like, we want to root for you. But you just make it so hard because of the crazy things you say. And that's what I'm talking about. This right here, like no one is, no one's buying that now that you're 38 years old

off a decade away and one went over a fighter who was out for 17 years. And now you're somehow just a completely reinvented fighter. and you're going to beat Holly Holie Holm. But what annoyed me the most about it is she's like, I know I'd beat her, I clean her clock, I clean her fucking clock, whatever. And then she's like, but it's never going to happen because I'm retired.

Then what's the point? Like that's like me saying, that's like me saying, you know what? I know I could beat John Jones. But it's not going to happen because I'm not a fighter. What's the point of me saying that? He's like the guy that you meet at the bar. It's like I would fight in the UFC

with my six-inch death punch, but I can't do it because I would murder people. yeah that's what yeah exactly like the old martial arts guys like yeah he's like I can't I can't do that I'd be murdering people I'd be in jail these are you know these hands are registered weapons like yeah yeah you're like while he's smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer you know like okay buddy like we but honest to god though like her saying that like feels the same as that guy saying that kind of stuff and I've legitimately heard people say that kind of stuff to me and um I get this same vibe like okay cool bro yeah you do you you know like like that's literally the same vibe I feel they're like okay I'm completely unenrested in this now and and and you're the one

who made it that way like we were having a good conversation right we were doing something cool and like you just completely ruined it bro and that's what ronda does like like like we were into it ronda like this was cool and there you go you just got to fuck it up again don't you It's like you're talking about even though I didn't, I didn't understand the promotion of like using the buildup to just constantly talk shit about the UFC and Hunter Campbell. But people were digging that. People were like, oh, Rhonda, like she's going after the UFC.

They were her boys. They were like, she was a star. And everyone's like, ooh. And so even though I didn't totally understand the promotion of it, it was kind of fun to watch her like, you know, basically like fuck these guys, like something we'd never heard her say before. And she goes out there and wins 17 seconds, whatever, and retires again.

And I'm fine with all that. You know, she beat Gina Corona. 17 years. It was a mismatch, whatever. Cool, whatever. But then you'd say this. And I'm just like, why? Why? I'm not saying you built up enough goodwill to where people are just loving you now? Like, you're still going to be a very, like, you know, I'll say controversial is the wrong word. Like, you're still going to be a magnetic personality. Some people are going to love you, some people are going to hate you. That's no different than any superstar that caught you, Floyd Mayweather had fans and people who hated Floyd. I don't know if anybody loves her, though.

I don't, I've never talked to anyone that's like, fuck yeah, I'm a huge Ronda. fan earlier on like 2016 there's tons everybody was a ronda fan right there are people fucking all about they were saying she could beat floyd mayweather you know what I mean like or whatever they were saying you know this silly shit

like they were huge fans and she is the one who has pushed all them away again and it's better to have them as enemies than you know neutral right that's what they say but I feel like she doesn't even really create them as enemies you know she's not like like be out there being

the villain. She's literally just saying stupid shit and we're just like, like, this isn't cool. Like, you're not, you know, you're not one of us. Like, you're not a cool person. You know what I mean? Like, like Floyd would say shit that would get people fired up. You know, Connor, like, he would say shit, get you fired. I got to see this shit. You know what I mean? Like, Sean Strickland. He's very good at it, right? Where you're just like, you're like, okay, I got to see what these motherfuckers really going to do. With Rondo, like, we're just shaking our heads the whole time. We're like, what? Like, you're joking, right?

Like, you're not serious with what you're saying. Like, we kind of laugh when Sean Strickland says, I'm going to go to war. I'll fight to the dad. Then, you know, he goes in there and jabs guy for, you know, 25 minutes for some fights. It's kind of funny that it happens, whatever. But, like, it is what it is.

But, like, you know, Sean always goes in their fights. Rhonda, if you think you can beat Holly Holm, fight Holly Holm. Otherwise, don't say shit. Yeah. Go beat her. Just keep your mouth shut. Yeah, like, I don't really.

Or we give props. Credits will where credits do, you know. I mean, believe me I mean I fought many times obviously you don't have to believe me like you know I've fought many times

I've lost some right I feel like I could go back in and beat every single one of those motherfuckers right like a thousand percent right now if you if you called me tonight and was like hey the fight next week you get the rematch just I'm like fuck yeah let's go

I will fuck that motherfucker up but I've never once come out and and said that. Right? I was like, dude, I had my 15 minutes or 25 in some cases. I had my time. I failed.

Like I had a set time that I got to train for and I had to show up and do all the formalities. I was there, you know, two hours in the locker room beforehand, just like he was. I had 15 minutes at the exact same time he had 15 minutes. And he walked away better than, me at that moment. I can accept that. Yes, I believe that I could go back and do that 15 minutes again and fuck him up. But the time that we did have, I didn't do it. So how can I say shit about it?

Well, I don't know. Rhonda cannot accept that. It's like, it's like, I feel like in the back of her head, it's a, I don't know if she's like a religious person, you know, she's like, like, you know, God didn't want me. That's what I feels like like, like she'd be like one of those It was said, you know, it was God's choice for me to lose that day. And, you know, I had to learn that lesson. Even though she's saying worse than that, it'd probably be better if she said that, keeping a real, right? But like I said, my-

Sufferable, she is. It's just my problem was, like, she's never given, she's never done the humble thing once. Like, she's never done to, like, Holly got the better of me. And she's not. Suffrable, man. Like, Holly won. I want my revenge. Great.

I get, like, Holly, great job, Holly. I want to run about it. I know I could beat you. Yeah. But she's never. never once said that. She's never once had great job Holly. It was head injury, fell down stairs, I got caught.

It just drives me insane. I'm like, Rhonda, you had such a rare opportunity to just shut up and go to retire and fade away. And that's one of the rare cases, Rhonda Rousey, is one of the rare cases where just going, like, okay, you went into hiding?

Okay, cool. Like, we would like her more. She would be more like. She'd probably sell more merch if she literally hadn't not said, a single word since what was it, 16, 17 when she lost, like if she had literally, a decade

later, if she had kept her mouth completely shut, like she would have more fans today than she does now, I think. Sorry, I had to bring it up. It just drove me nuts last week. And because I did the interview with Holly, I had to bring it up. But yeah, I just, oh. Well, can we just like get a go-fund me for a therapist

for her or something? I don't know, man. I just, yeah, I don't know what's going on. But yeah, and at this point, I think she's like stuck in our ways too because like this is nothing new. This is what we complained about. This is what we complained on the book tour. Like she's talking about concussions and head injuries and I'm like at what point do you say Holly good job or congrats Holly.

I've never heard either one. Any of those words come from your mouth even like even back then like she wasn't saying I beat her ass. She's just saying here's why I lost. Great. What about Holly? Did she do nothing? Like she was just like a stone statue in there. You ran into her and fell over? No. It didn't happen. Anyway, sorry. I just imagine like being one of her kids, you know, and, you know, and it's like she, you know, I don't know, she helps her kid with the homework and it's all wrong.

And then, you know, and she would just be like, well, it's not my fault. It's your fault. It's like, you fucking, I don't know, I just can't imagine like, you know, her like burning the pancakes or something. Like, no, you're still eating it. Like, you're just my pancakes. And it's just like, fuck. Like, this just be such a miserable. household man just so insufferable man I hope she's not like I hope it's like I hope it that like this

is truly what I hope is that she is is playing a character that she thinks is either being a villain or hero or being cool and that sells tickets which it clearly does which is the amazing thing like we still all watched right so she she won and but it's almost it's almost feel like we're enabling her you know you know I mean like her like she she she paid more she paid more credit to Gina Corona getting tapped out in 17 seconds than she's ever paid to Holly home beating her her right but doesn't it feel like like she's like an alcoholic that we're feeding and it's like everybody just walked away she'd be like hey guys uh I'll shut up now okay like just just come talk to me still and she's like an alcoholic like we're enabling her because like we did all watch

Netflix you know my girlfriend forced me to stay up till night to watch it you know i'm on the couch half asleep but she's like wake up there about to fight i god damn it well it was over quick so you didn't miss much sleep at least yeah but i had to watch the whole fucking walk out and you know and watch her with her squinty eyes and crunched up face like like so fucking angry and i was like jesus christ like you fucking man well i mean just just that was actually when i first like you just imagine because she's talking about having kids and she was like you just imagine being a kid she walks in like why is your room something i see with that look on her face like god damn it mom stop well look at like and i was like her face must

be burned out by time you know like if you ever like do that with your face and then you know it's like kind of needs restretch back out after you're done kind of loses the elasticity and it's like i wonder if she feels that when she fights you know because because once the fight starts the look kind of goes away and it's all focused and it's like I wonder if her face is kind of tickling or itching right there and your pins and needles well unless you unless she stages that her comeback we probably won't be talking about ronda very much but I had to bring that out because it was relevant well yeah even on that like I'm going to be her PR person for the next five seconds it's really simple this is your PR ronda shut the hell up just don't talk just just don't

Like, we'll like you a hell of a lot more. Just forget about it. Whatever is on your mind. Just forget about it. Oh, man. All right. We're going to get out of here. Next week, of course,

we're going to have a very big... Is that going to be your fucking headline there, Damon? Probably. Rhonda, shut the hell up. Inseparable, Rhonda, you just shut that up. But unlike anything else, I think you probably agree with that 100% headlines. Yeah. But we're going to...

Next week is going to be our U.S. White House previews. We're going to have a lot to talk about with that, seven fights and lots of good stuff talking about that and the insanity being outdoors. So we'll talk about that next week. I know you fought outdoors. We've talked about that before. So, well, Brian, although I think they're probably going to have a little bit more of a setup that maybe you did back in the day when you're fighting outside. Yeah, to be fair, at least the UFC octagon flooring, if it's the same, I believe it's probably still the same.

When it gets a little moist, it's actually better. when I fought outside at least one of them I fought a few times outside one of them had a vinyl canvas and it was actually sprinkling not not sprinkling enough that you know they're going to stop any competitions but sprinkling enough that the cage is wet and people are sweating in there too obviously and it was like a fucking ice rink and I happened to be fighting like a fucking really good jitzy guy and I was like I don't want to go to the ground with this guy but I'm on a fucking ice rink. Like, what do I do?

And just that, I don't know, just that, I guess, add a tiny little bit of humor test. Literally just today, my girlfriend, you know, she's like rubbing my arm or whatever. And I still got a bump right here from that fight, you know, because he kicked my arm and swole up. I think it just calcified or something. And it was just coincidental, you know, thinking about that fight twice in the same day. That was fucking 20 years ago. Good timing, then.

Good time to bring it up. Matt, where can people check you out? They want to see what else you got going on, social media things you got happening in the world. I don't know. Don't check me out. No, I'm kidding. Immortal Matt Brown,

the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. I am the Immortal Instagram and Twitter. And also, yeah, I got to keep plugging my fucking, I got companies, man. I got brands. I sell shit, bro. Like the immortal coffee.com.

You know, like, why don't I fucking never tell people about that shit? Or, or Vitifuel, V-I-T-A-P-H-U-E-L, the CREATine brand. Like, we make some sales, you know. I even got shit on dynamic striking. And all these people could actually go learn how to fucking elbow, how to clench, how to do some partner drills, I got defensive shit, all kinds of shit. And it's like, go on dynamic striking.

I don't know. You could probably use a code. Try immortal. See if it works. I don't know if it will. but yeah they're always giving me codes they're like give his code out and I'm like I forgot that even had this DVD and then I get it you know I get a paycheck

and I'm like oh what the fuck is this for you know so anyway there's my plugs for the yeah I always give every week we get a plug and you forget to plug half your shit so I know I just remember my social media because I really only remember that most of the time because fucking all you fucking dip shit haters out there fucking talking all that shit reminded me that I got it

you know my phone my notifications are going off it's like oh you're a fucking piece of shit and you're a loser and you're a fucking I'm like oh god damn here it I guess that's who I am now you know that's the confidence boost I was looking for yeah that's exactly what I needed but look I enjoy it man

I actually enjoy the social media I have a I've curated my page now where it's such a positive thing for me and then I just get to you know anytime I discuss anything that's just truthful I guess because I don't I don't really say I'm not like a controversial guy like I don't really I feel like I don't really say shit that's off the wall like I don't maybe I'm biased towards myself right because that's we all are but I feel

like I'm like based as fuck you know I mean like like I go off like facts that I know if I don't know then I just don't say anything and it's like I don't feel like I don't feel like I say really controversial shit. Well, I'll tell you. Go ahead. I'll tell you, I'll tell you right now, the Rhonda Rousey stuff, when I put that tweet out last week, that was one of the most, like, universally responded tweets I've ever had where everyone's like, yes, you're right.

She just can't stop saying dumb shit, whatever. So I was like, rarely does that happen. I'm like, water is wet. And they're like, no, it's not. Fuck you. Yeah, they're like, fuck you. Fucking idiot. Yeah.

I think that, I think that Ronda tweets is the first one that was like, universally like, yep, agree with you there. It's so funny, man. I like social media, bro. I like the haters, too. Yeah, it's funny. I did a podcast, not a podcast. I did IG Live.

I don't think you watched, Damon. A little upset there, buddy. I don't remember seeing it. I don't remember seeing it happen. Well, I posted an Instagram post about it the night before to remind you. All right. I'll remember next time. But whatever, who gives a fuck.

But the guy. So he just got on, he's got a house flipping show on A&E. He just premiered. So I did it live with them to help promote it a little bit. And it's funny. He asked me, he said, how do you deal with haters? And I had to think about it. I never thought about it before.

I was like, I don't know. I don't fucking, I don't deal with haters. But what I told him was, like, look, bro, it's a feature, not a bug. You know, that means you're doing something. It's a feature of the system of doing something. It's not a bug, right? It's not a, don't think it was a bad thing. It means they're watching, right?

But the other part that that I kind of thought about later was like if you ever you ever known of anyone to punch down on people It doesn't happen right they always trying to punch up Right like like the people above you There never are they coming on to give you hate It's always the people below trying to punch up to you and so I don't know I never really thought about before but then I just thought about it that day and was like I Yeah, that's, yeah. So, so I love social media, right?

Because I get to, I get to meet all the people below me. Yeah, well, life lesson. That's actually a good life. I didn't really thought about it that way, but that's absolutely true. You try to punch up on your competition. That's what the very true. So I think about that way.

I would never read the comments, so I definitely don't know anything because I just, I don't have the mental, don't have the mental acuity to deal with that concept. You know what? I'll just ignore it. Well, my thing is I generally don't, but you know I do like to go again I don't know if you ever follow especially like

my fighting post you know I like to go on and join in on conversation right like if they have a maybe if they have a good counter or you know they do have something to say especially what I tried to respond to the positive comments right and when they do have that I'm like okay well I should be able to show the respect to give you a reply you know yeah and you know but it's is funny sometimes you go on and it's exactly what you didn't expect and it's the exact opposite.

Yeah, well, like I said, we live in a social media world now. It's impossible to ignore at this point, but yeah, so. Yeah, you just got that thick skin is all it comes down to. We'll keep plugging away and we'll see, you know, we'll keep saying whatever crazy shit Matt Brown says and we'll just

keep rolling and check along here. As always, we'd like to say everyone, thank you. Thank you to everyone to tunes in the show each and every week. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platform Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course, over the best website in the world, mhmap fighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider.

Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. That's it.