MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Gives Surprising Take on Paul vs. Diaz in MMA, Advice to Fighters Considering Short-Notice Bouts

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin looking ahead at the UFC Austin card on Saturday and the biggest storylines ahead of that event. Beneil Dariush will attempt to get back on track in the main event when he faces Arman Tsarukyan and we’ll discuss the importance of this fight as both lightweights attempt to enter the title talk conversation. In the co-main event, Jalin Turner steps up on short notice to face Bobby Green and Brown offers his advice to fighters considering similar opportunities from the UFC in a risk versus reward situation. Plus we’ll discuss fights involving Kelvin Gastelum vs. Sean Brady, Rob Font vs. Deveison Figueiredo and Miesha Tate’s return against Julia Avila. We’ll also talk about the fallout from the PFL Championship card this past fight and the continued push for Jake Paul to make his MMA debut against Nate Diaz. Would that fight be a recipe for disaster for Paul in his first MMA fight? Brown’s take might surprise you. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose

to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. To the fighter versus the writer, I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend, Matt Brown.

We are in a post- Thanksgiving world. I guess the question the world wants to know the answer to, Matt, did you have steak for Thanksgiving? Fuck yeah, dude. Bricket, pulled pork, all smoked. And what else we have? Yeah, I wasn't going anywhere near a goddamn turkey. Now, you can, you can't smoke a turkey and it can be good.

Like, you can't smoke it to you. I've done it before. Yeah. And yes, it can be decent. But still, it doesn't compare to the worst fucking brisket that I've ever had. I mean, I'll take steak any day of the week over turkey. Trust me. Like that's like a no brainer like it just depends like how quality the steak I want to go to want to go like full on filet Don't want to go to like any steak is pretty like you get a sir line from fucking outback and it's better than turkey. So

That's my whole point, bro Like I get and dude, I get so many comments like you know I tweeted about it the other day and I get I get so many comments like you just You don't know how to cook turkey do you or you know you haven't tried my mom's turkey or some shit and it's like like dude she spent eight hours like basting and brining and smoking and you know whatever the fuck kind of frying or some stupid shit and it's like it's still not as good as a fucking croger steak bro don't don't give me your bullshit like maybe it was good it wasn't as good as a fucking steak yeah i had best turkey i ever had was when i went to Nashville one time and i was down there

and i got i went to a barbecue place i was actually down there for the ufc i went to a barbecue place they had like a meat sampler plate so I got pulled pork brisket and they had smoked turkey maybe that's what it was yeah and I had smoked turkey on there it was really good like that's probably the best turkey I ever had was there it was like it was like a barbecue place though that's probably why it was good because it was like tell me it wasn't the worst meat on the plate it was it was definitely the worst of the all the meats on there I had this the sausage too it was sausage he had so yeah that was martin's yeah yeah yeah good stuff though I like barbecue. If you're going to make me

turkey, at least give me barbecue. Like, give me a good turkey that's been smoked and made that way at least. Yeah, or all these people say, like, well, I'd put gravy on it. It tastes amazing. It's like, did you put gravy on fucking garbage and it tastes good? Because you taste

in the gravy, you're not tasting the turkey, dumbass. See, that's the thing that I pretty, that's what I like about a steak, because you don't like, I know people who use, like, steak sauce. Like, what are you doing? Like, what, you just need a steak? Like, when I eat a steak, I just need a steak, I just need a steak. I don't need anything else on it. I will occasionally.

I do occasionally like getting like a, like a cheese crust or something on it just to like have that. Like that's kind of good. But like otherwise, just give me a regular steak. Like I don't need anything on it. You know, as long as it's cooked properly. Right. Yeah, that's it. Like if it's a good cut, if it's a shitty cut, yeah, you put like some mushrooms or onions

or some gravy, barbecue sauce, whatever on it. But if you get a halfway decent. and cooked steak, cooked properly steak, yeah, you fucking, you eat the steak, salt and pepper, that's it.

Takes 20 minutes. Oh, so good. So good. Yeah, so Thanksgiving is past us. What do we? We actually made chicken and dumplings, homemade chicken and dumplings at home is what we had.

We had that. Oh, interesting. Potatoes and the whole, like, you know, we made potatoes and mac and cheese and the whole thing. So, yeah, we're not like big turkey people either. So I love,

I grew up on chicken and dumplings. That's what my mom used to make when I was a kid. So now my girlfriend makes it. Her mom makes it. And then she made it her mom's recipe. It's really good. But it also gives us leftovers for like days afterwards. So that's why we make it because we can have it for like three days after.

Yeah. So that's what everybody talks about with the turkey to the dude, but the leftovers. Yeah. It is nice. Well, can we just stop with all the bullshit, you know, dancing around it and shit? And can we just go Thanksgiving, bro? Can we just be done with this? Turkey bullshit.

I like it. Okay, let's say let's say the story actually happened, which I don't know history that well, but I imagine white people coming into Indians land. They're welcoming, want to have them,

give them a dinner, whatever. You know what the Indians did. If it was actually Turkey, the Indians were like, hey, we got, they went over to their meat tent, and they said we have, here we have some deer, we have some elk, we got some bison.

Okay, give them the fucking turkey. They're fucking white people. Get them the fuck out of here. It's like when you have the family member over to your house, like when you have friends over that you really like, you give them like the best drinks you got. Then when you have like the family over you don't really like, you're like, yeah, I got this beer from like three years ago

stuck in the back of my fridge. You can have that. Yeah, I got some PDF for you, buddy. I got this limine that we made like four years ago. It's fermented by now. You can probably have that. that's how you treat the guest you're like i mean you can come in but i don't really want you here so here's what you're getting yeah said i bet anything if that story's true that's how the indians

did it like give them the fucking turkey they'll never want to come back to america again but to be fair they were coming from britain where everything tastes like shit and that's why you tune into this podcast we give you your best thanksgiving stories you can possibly imagine oh man i tell you what the best thanksgiving advice that's true the best thing i'm cut it with the fucking turkey you can make a goddamn steak you can grill it in 10 minutes yeah steaksgiving i like that name what are you are when you have a steak what's your what's your what's your what's your what's your size of choice hmm i got a perfect like in a perfect world like mine's always baked potato like i'm very traditional i want to bake potato with my

steak. You know what I kind of fell in love with lately is fucking corn pudding. Oh, I like corn pudding. Yeah, that's good. I never tried it until a few months ago. Yeah. And I'm fascinated. Like, it's not even pudding and it doesn't really taste that much like corn, but you can taste a corn, but it's called corn pudding. And it's pretty damn good. Yeah, I like it. Yeah. My mom used to make corn bread when I was a kid. And then my grandma, made corn pudding. So, yeah, it was good. Cornbread sucks, I think. I like, I like, I like cornbread, but it's got to be good cornbread. And that's what's hard to come by. It's got, you know, otherwise you get the dry shit. It's like trying to choke down a brick. Right. Maybe I just ever had the good shit.

Where do you go to get good cornbread? I don't know. You know where they make good cornbread, honestly, where I get, honestly, we're good is whole foods makes good cornbread. Well, yeah, whole foods makes good everything, to be honest. Yeah. I mean, you overpay for it, but it's, good so yeah yeah i just don't go there it's like they call it the whole paycheck market i do they seriously dude i go there like once a month and i'm like all right this is all i can afford to go to whole food is too expensive no i got to save my money for the paper views for ufc austin coming up absolutely ufc austin coming up on saturday great car we did have a change of course i know it's like it's like it's like we are we're cursing the car we talked about dan hooker for like

10 minutes on last week's podcast and like two days later breaks his armies out of the fight so uh, Dan Hooker's out. Jalen Turner's in, but still a great card. I mean, you got Rob Fon against Devincent Figuero, moving back up to Bantamweight. That's a banger. Benil Darius against Armisarukia and that's a banger. Sean Brady and Kelvin Gasselam. That's a banger.

Punis Soriano against Dustin Stoltzfuss. That's a banger. Clay Guides return, Misha Tates on the undercard. I mean, this is a really good card for a fight night card. This is really good. That's pretty amazing. Yeah. And, uh,

Jaylon Turner coming in for Hooker that's still a good fight It is although I will say It's a really good fight It does it does worry me about Jay Lynn Turner is you know Of two losses in a row both split decisions He lost to Matush Gamron and Dan Hooker

Now certainly nothing wrong with losing either of those fights But I'm always and the Dan Hooker fight Was also in short notice and I'm like I'm always curious And I want to ask you from a fighter's perspective Like I know we've talked about this on the show before About taking short notice fights. And I say this, and I know you've agreed with me on this, I say that when a guy takes a short notice fight, we should absolutely applaud them. We should never demean someone

for turning it down because it's, you know, you are a professional athlete. If you don't feel ready to go in nine days or ten days, then you shouldn't have to fight nine or ten days. And no one should, you know, begrudge you that. But we do applaud the guys who do, you know, who do it. Now, the only thing I'm curious, Jalen Turner's off two loss in row. Again, not bad losses, both split decisions, but it's still two losses. Does that, would that change your opinion? Like, would that change your decision on doing another short notice fight? Like, he's taking this one again on basically less than two weeks notice.

And I won't say it's do or die. It's certainly not that kind of circumstance, but you don't want three losses in a row. I mean, nobody does, you know what I mean? I don't know. Does that play, I mean, you want to get that loss off your record. You want to get that bad taste out of your mouth, but you're also doing it on less than two weeks. So I'm just kind of curious the mindset of, like, taking a short notice fight. Yeah, I think first you have to respect the confidence, right, coming off two losses and saying, look, I'll take another short notice fight against a very tough to beat guy, a very awkward fighter, right?

Like someone that, you know, realistically, even if you had the camp to train for them, like, it's going to be hard to train for. But now you don't have a camp, so it's going to be even harder to train for. So you're basically relying on your own reactions and your own athletic abilities. your skills and things like that. But the way that I look at it is there's kind of, you know, a lot of these guys, I think one of the tips I would give younger guys, if you see anybody successful in any adventure, one of the commonalities you'll see amongst people that are successful is their ability to zoom out, right?

So being able to look at your career or your, I guess, called fight career you know you're you're fighting journey as a whole zooming out on it and i think some people um whether for good or bad you don't really zoom out and they they hear an opportunity yeah let's go fight i think i made that mistake a lot when i was younger i took a lot of short notice fights now the advantage of it it does earn you favor with the ufc right um i think it earned me favor and earned me a lot of respect and um came in handy at times when you look at guys um like a like a john jones like i would not have seen him doing that maybe he did do it i don't i don't really remember but you know early in his career because he had thought like or he knew like i'm

going to be a champion one way or another so he's playing the long game from the beginning so i think there's a you know depends on kind of like what you want out of your career also right like some guys don't necessarily have an intention of being champion or maybe they don't even believe they're going to be a champion or, you know, maybe they want to fight, just a fight, et cetera. You know, I think I had a lot of that mentality when I was younger. And that's why I think I could look back and kind of give this kind of insight into it. So what I would suggest to guys like that, you know, is zoom out, you know, see your career as a marathon and not as a sprint.

Yeah, look at the big picture, right? Like how much is it going to benefit you in the long run versus the short rings? I do think some guys or girls, for that matter, they get the opportunity and the instinct is to fight. Like, that's your instinct. Your instinct is to fight, right? And especially off a loss and like two split decision losses, you probably, I would imagine, like in the back of his head, he's like, I just want to get back on, like, I want to get back on track. I want to get this stupid, nasty feeling of a loss out of my mouth and I want to win. And so you're looking short term, right?

Like, I want to win. I'm a fighter. Let's go fight. then as you said you zoom out and you think about well what's the repercussion of this if you come up short against the guy like bobby green who's surgeon right now just knocked out grant dawson on a good streak right now you lose to him not a bad loss but it's still three lost in a row now you're not going to get bounced out of the ufc they're not going to release you because you took a short notice fight and lost in third fighting row we know that but let's not forget

a year ago or whatever it was jalen turner got in the top 15 now he lose this one you're pretty much bounce. I'd imagine you have to be bounced out of the top 15 at the least, you know what I mean? Then you're on three losses in a row. You're not getting those top 15 fights anymore, or at least for a little while, I'd imagine, you know what I mean? So it is like you do have to, you do have to think about the cause and effect of what you're doing here. Like I imagine you're right. Like, I want to fight, let's go. You know, that is a mentality of a lot of great fighters. But like you mentioned John Jones. It's great you mentioned them because you remember people raked him over the cold years ago when Dan Henderson dropped out of his fight and he wouldn't

fight was a V-Tor, Chil-San. He wouldn't fight Chelsan. He wouldn't fight Chelsan on whatever it was like a week's notice. And everyone raked him over the Coles like that. I never agreed with that. I never agreed with Dana. I never agree with anybody. Like, he's a world champion preparing for a fight against a specific opponent.

You give him a brand new opponent on a week's notice and you can't, I mean, yes, in theory will we love the Islam-Makachiev attitude or he's just like, give me somebody. I get it. I understand we want to applaud that. But you can't, you can't demean the guy for being like, listen, I was preparing for a

wrestler with a freaking sledgehammer for a right hand and I'm going to a different kind of guy, like a Greco guy, and I'm going to Shell Sond. Like, it's just a different, you can't get mad at people for that. You can't get, it's just like when, uh, this past week into PFL, Chris Wade, Mrs. Wade, Bubba Jenkins is like, I'm not going to fight this guy. He's three and a half pounds over.

Like, we should never begrudge a guy for, like, the other guy's not being professional. And just like this, like you can't begrudge a guy for like, I don't want to fight a guy on a week's notice or I don't want to fight on a week's notice. Like there should never be a bad thing that they're just being professional and not doing it. As I said, I am glad Jalen Turner did it. I think Jalen Turner and Bobby Green's a hell of a fight. But there's a risk there.

There's a real risk there for Jalen Turner potentially losing three fights in a row. Yeah, and you have to look also at the risk reward. Like this is obviously like a very high risk. I don't know how high the reward is in this particular scenario. you know, I guess that you could, you'd probably have more input on that than me. But, you know, it's definitely a high risk, especially coming off. Like you said, there's a lot, lot for him to lose here being already having two losses in a row. So, you know, I would think that he would step back and say, look, you know, I'm going to fight when I'm a thousand percent prepared and be a thousand percent ready.

I need to get these losses off and move on with my career. apparently, you know, that again, I applaud the confidence, the fact that he believes, you know, even coming off two losses in a row, he's going to, he's saying, I'm going to go in there and I'm still going to win this fight. Like, he's not going to take the fight if he doesn't believe he's going to win. So, you know, he's confident that he's going to go in there and pull this off. He's confident of skills. And I applaud that.

And I love it, you know, when guys step up on short notice, have the balls to do that. I have much highly respect that. I've always been that guy that did that. But you know, you have to weigh the risk reward. So, you know, I think, you know, it depends on kind of who's around them too, right? What are they telling them? Yeah. You know, that always plays a huge factor, right?

It could be his, you know, I was kind of talking with a friend about this earlier, you know, about who, you know, when these people, what I notice is I see way too many fighters with their friends around them and guys that love to help them out and, you know, hang out with. them and you know people that they enjoy being around which is great but you got to have a couple of guys that are just confronting the truths of the situation right like dude you're not doing enough grappling you're not doing enough conditioning you know like you're dropping your hands too much no you shouldn't take that fight you know i mean you got to have somebody around you that puts their foot down and tells you the honest truth yeah you got to you got to you got to have like you can't be surrounded with people who are only going to root you on. You got to be able to have somebody around you that's going to make, like, be able to tell you the difficult truth.

Like, I know this is probably a bad example, but I just the most public example I can think of is remember years ago when Brendan Schaubb did Joe Rogan's podcast and Joe was like, dude, you just need to stop. Like, it's just, this is not going well for you. And everyone gave him shit for it. And everyone's like, what are you talking about Joe? Like, you don't know. But it was a public forum with a guy who was just trying to be brutally honest with his friend. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying that's like a public example of that.

And I'm not saying that's what Joe should have done. Maybe you should have handled it behind the scenes and not done it on a podcast. But like that's what we're talking. Like you need somebody who's willing to be like you're like, you know, it's like, I know it's like, I know it's like, I know this bridge. And I bet you might jump off off that bridge and I dive in the water, it'd be a really cool video and I could do it. And you're like, yeah, it'd be an awesome video. But you need someone being like, dude, it's still a bridge. And you're still a big chance you're going to die here.

So how don't you not do that? Like, how about we do something else instead? Like, you've got to have somebody around you that's willing to say, listen, you know, you're off two losses in a row or, you know, have you been trained? You have somebody who's willing to, again, maybe the people around him were honest enough to say, hey, you're ready. You've been training. Maybe he was thinking he was going to fight in January. Yeah, but you need to have somebody around that's willing to give you the difficult truth, whether that's good or bad. It could be great.

It could be absolutely on your corner. And I believe that in all things in life, you know, not just fighting, right? like my girlfriend, you know, sometimes she could be the biggest hassle in the world, but she'll tell me some shit too that I don't want to hear, you know. And at the time, maybe it pissed me out. But later I respect it. And I said, you know what? I'm glad you told me that.

And, you know, I think that's something very important for fighters to understand. I can think of specific examples where I took fight on short notice. My coaches told me not to. I didn't listen. lost the fight and looking back saying, damn, I should have listened to those motherfuckers. You know, I'm a stubborn dude, right? Like, you know, and that's just a matter of, you know,

working with the people around you, you know? And, you know, they can't, maybe there was someone around them. I don't know, you know, this is, I don't know nothing about Jalen Turner. So I'm not pointing him out specifically. But it is an important thing, I think, in life in general and in fighting. Well, and you just said it right. I mean, yeah, coach is telling you not to do it. You still have to make that choice.

You still did it anyways. But you did have people around you saying, I don't think this is a good idea. Now, again, it's still on you. And for all we know, Jalen Turner had the same exact thing happen. Whereas coach was like, we don't think this is a good idea. And Jalen Turner's like, well, I'm doing it anyways. Like, it's still his decision. But yeah, you got to have that.

I respect, like, for instance, Dorian did that for me, actually, with the specific fight that I'm thinking about. He said, he said, dude, you're not taking this fight. Like, what are you doing? You know, he's like, you haven't been training. you're not ready and I said well I'm taking the fucking fight and he said all right we're riding then let's go 100% yeah you know I mean that that's that's why Doran's my dude so yeah but he was honest with you he told you it wasn't a good idea like at least he told you the honest he didn't just be like all right let's go let's gear up at least he tried to

be honest with you about it and yeah and like I said then he when he knew that he wasn't going to win that battle he rode with me still yeah there's always like I said there's always that danger of taking short notice fights. Like I said, there's always a good and a bad. You always got to weigh the risk versus a reward in any situation like that. Like, I don't care if you're on a 10-fight win streak or you're two fights into your UFC career, whatever it is. Way every situation is a risk and reward.

You know what I mean? Like, you know, if you're doing a fight on, and also short notice means a lot of different things. Is it short notice on three weeks notice? Is it a short notice on four days notice? You know, like there's a lot of different kind of short notice, too. Like, who did I talk to? I remember the fighter I talked to.

He took a fight on four days notice. and he didn't do well and he lost and he called Jose Johnson he came back in this last two weeks ago he had a really really good performance and won and he's like yeah I learned a lesson like I got in the UFC by taking a fight on short on four days notice didn't have my best night at the office took a full camp look better the second time now that's again risk versus reward like he knew taking a fight on four days notice was probably the worst idea possible but it got him in the UFC that was which is obviously like way different too right that's the risk that's the that's the that's the risk versus the reward like that's what I'm talking about like the risk was worth it because the reward was he got in the UFC yeah and there's also you know there's the well which we already know right is a part of how much have you been training you know if you know how are you training maybe you're helping other guys for their fights and you're basically doing camp with them already um you know which is a different situation and then you know there's also um you know the matchups too right like like what what kind of matchup is it right right?

if you're Islam like you can like he's one of the best grapplers in the world right and he's he didn't end up doing that to Volcanovsky but you know he I think he's got confidence that he's going to be able to out grapple anybody in the world whatever kind of shape that he's in or however much he's been training right so you know I think there is a matchup component uh to it also and again and I said this with Volcanozki and Kumar Usman when they did that back at 294 um I said listen we applaud you for doing it amazing you took this fight, but you also can't use an excuse afterwards. Once you're in there

and you take the fight, that's you're in there. Like, was Volcanovsky had his absolute peak best when he fought Macacha at the second time? Maybe not, but guess what? It doesn't matter. You took the fight. You stepped in there, you lost the key. You came short. I mean, that's the sport. You know what I mean? Like, that's the key about shortness.

Again, you throw a big picture. Everything we're talking about here is big picture. You got to think about the good side, the bad side. What happens after? All these kind of things play a factor, and that's what you're talking about with zooming out and like making sure you're looking at the full picture of what happens good and bad to a situation before you do it rather than just jumping head first into the rick wall and saying i'm going to fight you know what i mean you got to look at least what you ultimately have to remember that i didn't get until way later in in my career or whatever a journey

in martial arts is no one knows cares or remembers how what type of note that you got for that fight how prepared you were no one knows cares or remembers you know whether you had an injury or you know another shit the only thing people are going to remember how a week from now if you know if not like a year from now or whatever they see on tapology sure dog or you know they see the record they don't see that all the asterisks next to it that you could be put in because i could put all kinds of asterisks next to so many in my fights, wins and losses. Yeah.

I'm sure my opponents could do the same. But no one knows Caesar cares about that shit. Yeah, I said it all the time when a fighter gets a bad decision. I say, like, listen, that's the reason why bad decisions have to be called out because a year from now, people are just going to look at the record and see a lost. They're not going to know that, oh, yeah, it was a bad judge who cost you the fight. You know what I mean? Like, that's why things like this are so big.

And you talk about this. Like, yeah, you know, year from now, are we going to be talking about Volcan Oh, yeah, every single time you reference that fight, you're only going to reference Volcanowski took it on short. No, that's how the sport works. People are just going to see you got hit, kick, knocked out. That's what people are going to remember. Like that's, so again, big picture.

Just make sure you look at the big, again, not saying he didn't. I'm just saying you got to look at the big, but you're absolutely right. Like, that's a brilliant assessment because I think that is, we kind of live in a microcosal where we live in like the moment. You know, you just live in the moment. You're not thinking about, well, what happens on, you're thinking about Saturday, man, I got the fight on Saturday. I could fight on Saturday.

I can fight on Saturday. I can win. what happens on Sunday, though? What happens on Monday? What happens on Friday? You got to think about the big picture here. And also, like, his last fight out, he missed weight. Like, is that good?

Like, he's taking this on short notice. Is that going to be a problem? Because you miss weight, now you're giving up 20, 30% of your purse that you just took on short notice and maybe you lose. So then you're taking a fight. You lost and you lost 30% of your purse. Like, there's a lot of factors that go into this. Yeah, that's exactly right.

So, yeah, ultimately, you know, again, it applies to fighting. as much as it applies to every career, right? Zoom out, see the bigger picture, you know, see, you know, 10 years down the road. I was talking, it's funny part of why that kind of came up into my mind. And also, like, I was talking to a very wealthy friend of mine the other day, like, very, very wealthy. And he buys a lot of businesses. And when he's talking to the business owners that he is potentially purchasing,

you know, one of the keys that he looks for in, you know, buying a business or either partnering with them in a business or buying it from them, you know, one of the things he looks for at a successful entrepreneur person is their ability to zoom out, right, to be able to see the bigger picture. Like, you know, is this product going to be something or this business going to be something valuable for the long term? So I think it applies to a lot of. a lot of different things. Yeah, absolutely. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew

with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrant Sets, our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. This episode is brought to you by Peloton.

A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs with personal personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross-Training Treadplus at OnePeloton.ca.

Beyond that fight, of course, we mentioned Benil Daryush taken on Armistarukin in the main event. That's a hell of a good fight. I've been a big, big Benil Darius guy for a long time. obviously a bit of a heartbreaker for him back in that was it May when he lost to Charles Oliver of course certainly no shame there Charles Oliver is incredible Arman's Rukian

again top guy had a couple tough losses in there obviously he lost to he lost to McCachev in his debut but he took that on a short notice and did very very well and then of course he lost a close fight to Matush Gamrot coming back off a couple wins now this is a big matchup this is kind of a big matchup for both of them because Armand's younger so you feel like

he's got a little bit more runway should he lose here. Like, he's still got a lot of time in front of him. But for a guy like Benile Darius, like, certainly is not make or break or do or die. But knowing Beno Nal and knowing, like, he's just, I have so much respect for Benil Dary Eush being honest and truthful

to who he is, meaning he's never going to come outside of himself to try to get a fight. Like, he's not going to talk trash and say crazy things. And, you know, he always, one of the things he always says to me when we do interviews, he says, everything I say, I have to remember, like five years,

years from now my kids are going to see. And I want them to be proud of what they saw in their dad. Like when I stepped in that cage, I didn't say, hey, you mother, bleep, you know, he didn't freak out and say, you know, he didn't, he's like, when I, when I think about this, like, he's like, if it means I never get a title shot, then so be it. But I want my kids to be proud of me when they look back at what I did. And I appreciate that because he's just being honest, because you know as well as I, like, look no further than UFC 296, Colby Covington.

Colby Covington was just a super mild-mannered wrestler dude. And then he realized, and then the UFC is like, hey, we're, you know, we're probably not going to re-sign you to your contract. You're not that exciting. You know, you're just kind of a very vanilla dude. And, you know, we're just not that interested. And so what do you do? He went out there and created a persona and a character. Now, that's for Colby Covington.

And it certainly worked. He's obviously a good fighter. He's an incredible fighter. But he created this persona to go along with it to where now he's this huge magnetic personality where everything, every time he says some, it's kind of crazy and wild and people pay attention to it. that's for Kobe and good for him. I got to whatever, do your thing. Benil doesn't want to do that. And I appreciate that.

He's like, I just, I don't want to be that guy. But he's a hell of a good fighter. And this is Aram Suruki, man. This is a banger. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that from Benil. I've done that exact same thing. Myself, right?

Like, again, that's that zooming out that we're just talking about, right? You've got to be able to look at the big picture. Like, you're going to be remembered this. And like he said, your kids are going to be. be watching this. Do you want your kids to be hearing their dad say the types of things that Colby Covington is that what you want your kids watching? And hey,

you know what? Everybody has different goals and different ways of living their life. Like, you know, to be fair, like Colby's kids are probably going to go to a private school and, you know, be living good,

right? Like they're going to be making more money. But, you know, different people value different things. So I respect to Neil for that and but anyway yeah god damn what a fight man um you know i think this is like armin matches up very very well with benille but benil tell me if you feel the same like he's done nothing

but surprised me and since i started watching him many years ago and at first i thought he was overachieving i thought he you know he's kind of um he's not really this good like he's doing better than he should be doing, kind of overachieving. But I think I was very wrong. And I think like he was, you know, he's just that good of a fighter. So I think it's going to be a really good matchup. And like you said, Armine Hat does have the youth behind him. But Benile has a lot of wisdom.

So it's good. That's a tough one. I don't know what the line is on this one, but I don't know how you pick one here. It's tough. And I agree with you on Benile because I, when I talked to Benile before this fight, is like I still remember my first interview of Benile. He was the jiu-jitsu guy. Like that's what he was known for.

He was a world-class grappler. And now, like, he's knocking people out. Like, when he fought, he was on a big win streak, and he fought Matush Gamrod last year. And that's a dangerous fight. Because at the time, Matush was number 7, 8 in the world. Benil was like number two. He was on a huge win streak,

maybe one went away from a title shot. And Matush was just trying to basically make his name off of that. Hugely dangerous fight. You know, kind of similar to this. Young guy trying to make a name, trying to make waves in the sport. Benil went out there and handling him, man. Like, Benile handled, like, he put it on Matush Gamer.

I was incredibly impressed by that performance. I was like, damn, like, that's a wake-up kind of performance for Benil Darius. Now, again, he lost to Charles Oliver. It is what it is. There's no shame in that. But I think there's, it could be a similar scenario here with, I think a lot of people are going to pick Armin as like the kind of the, quote-unquote, like sexy pick. You know, he's the young guy up and cover, maybe a future champion.

And Ben-Neil's like, maybe they're thinking, well, this is like a power. of the torch kind of situation where Benil lost to Charles and maybe he's going to start making his way down. I don't know man. Like I have a lot of faith of Benile Derriush. I think this could end up being a little bit of the Gamrod situation where he knows the danger. He knows what he's facing.

And the last thing you can do is underestimate this guy because he will go out there and put it on you. I'm not saying I'm not saying he'll just, you know, he'll whoop Armin Sarucut. I'm just saying like I think Armans kind of become the popular pick. And I'm just saying, don't sleep on Vanil Darius. This guy just,

He just he continuously finds ways to win. MMA math never works. But tell me if I am right in remembering Sarukin and Gamrod went to a very close decision, right? It did. It was a back and forth. Great fight. It was a bangor.

It was great fight. Oh, it was amazing. And then Gamrod won a decision, yeah. But it was real good, real close. Yeah. So just again, yeah, and I see that, Like the two of them very, very close skill level. So if we're going to do an MMA math here, you know,

I think you might be making the right call there. So does that mean that you are picking B'Neil for this? I am picking Bineal. I don't think it's a blowout. I'm certainly not sitting here saying like I'm super confident in that pick, but I do, but I'm picking Baneal. But this is like I said, this can be just like that Saruky and Gameron fight.

It can be just a back and forth battle for five rounds, and I'm ready for it. Yeah, exactly, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's going to be a banger, man. Like, again, Benil just has every tool in the toolbox, it seems like. Like, you could better really pull some rabbits out of some hats and that shit to beat him.

You know, he's just one of those guys, man. Charles Alvara happens to have a lot of rabbits and a lot of hats, right? Yeah. I mean, he's that guy, right? he has, you know, when he's at his peak, when he's performing at his ability, like I think he's one of the best in the sport, like, like, easily, like, top two or three pound for a pound best in the sport. He just doesn't always perform to his ability.

When he fought Benil, he performed his ability. He was up there smashing. So, yeah, it's going to be a great fight. I can't wait to watch this one. He just, Charles Oliver just happens to exist in a time when Islam McAchev also exists. And it's like, you know, he's amazing. And then you got a buzz saw right in front of it. Like, it's like that's not a bad thing.

But yeah, like in any other world right now, Charles Oliver would probably be a champion. But, you know, a guy named Islam Makachov exists. So he's not. You know what? It's a tough matchup for him. And I still not knowing anything, you know, behind the scenes, but I still feel like Charles didn't perform to his best when he did fight Islam.

I agree. I agree. I just don't know if it'll be that... I don't know if it'll play out that much different when they eventually do fight again. Like, not to say Charles can't win that fight, he absolutely can, but... I don't know. I mean, I'm just riding high on the Islam train right now. Like, I just think he's in that role right now.

He's like, it's going to be tough to stop him. You know what I mean? Like, I think Volcanowski probably had the best shot back in February when he took him to a close decision. I don't know, like, I just... I don't know, man. Like, I just... It's not that I don't think Charles can do it. It's that I'm very high on Islam. Like that's, you know, it's not that I think like Charles would maybe ever beat him.

Like, I don't know for sure. But I don't have confidence that he would necessarily ever be. But I do think he could put up at least a way better fight than he did. Yeah. Like, I would say like it was like a best out of 10. I would say nine out of 10. I'd feel pretty confident in Islam. But that one chance that Charles has, he can pull it off.

Like he can do it. He can make it a much better fight. But I got to be honest. Like, I just don't see anybody a lightweight beating Islam right now. Like I love the Justin Gageyfe. I think that's really interesting. But I'd still have a hard time picking against Islam. You know, like, I think Gachis looked amazing lately.

Still I have a tough time picking against Islam. You know, it's just one of those things. It's like, you know, you can praise these guys left, right and center. And then, you know, oh, you got to fight Islam Acacia. Well, fuck. You know, like, it's a bad night at the office. You know what, fight on this card? I am way excited about what a low-key banger on here is Rob Fon and Deveson Figurato.

Devison moving up to Bantway, which, you know, could be a mix of. bag. He's not, he was never the biggest guy in the world. Like, he obviously was a very thick guy and, you know, struggled to get to flyweight. Rob Font, incredible striker. I know he's coming off that, you know, kind of a, I'll say, lackless, not the most exciting fight in the world with Corey Sanhagen, where he basically got taken down for the better part of five rounds and controlled. It was a very weird night. Corey was dealing with an injury. He went out there and just had to do what he had to do to win. Credit to Corey Sanhagan. I think we all kind of expected, like these two to go out there and bang it out and then, you know, Corey's surprise, which,

That's credit to Cory Sandhagen. Rob Font clearly wasn't ready for that. But this is a good fight, man. Rob Fon's a dude. Rob Fon's a nasty striker, great boxing. We know Devinson hits like a truck, but does he still hit like a truck of Bands and wait? Like, that's a question.

Yeah. And the whole problem where I think this is a great fight for Rob Fon personally. I mean, for one, Davidson coming up and wait, you know, like you say, he's not that big anyway to be moving up in wait. it doesn't seem like at least i think he carries a lot of muscle but he's just not you know really built um much larger but rob font has a fucking good jab and davison figurado or figurero however you say you know he's a little bit wild right he's not throwing a lot down the middle and that down the middle beats the uh round the edges nine out of ten times if you got it if you're good at it and

Rob Fond's very good at it. He just has this terrific jab. I love watching him fight. And I think he's going to probably dominate this fight with that jab. I don't see Figuera having the wrestling to take him down and hold him down. Or, you know, he's got like a lot of tricky stuff. But as in, you know, pure wrestling to take him down and keep him down there. I think he's going to have a hard time doing that to Rob Fond, especially moving up and wait.

Yeah, I agree with you. I like Rob Fondt this fight as well. reminds me a little bit when when Sergio Pettus first went to Bantamweight and he fought Rob Font. Rob Font pretty much dominated him in that fight. Now, Sergio got better and put on weight and learned how to become a bantamweight. We just saw what he did in Bellator until he ran into Pachy Mix. Again, no shame there losing to a guy like Patchy Mix. But this kind of reminds me of that.

A guy coming up from Flyway for the first time, good striker, really good fighter, of course, a champion. But this is a tough matchup. Rob Fon is a nasty striker. He mentioned great jab, great boxing. and he's very technical, and I think that can take Deveson out of his game a little bit, because Deveson likes that scrap. He likes to get that scrap, and I don't think Rob Font will allow him to do that. When Rob Font did that was to Adrian Yanez, who was a really good boxer,

but it gets a little wild at times. Rob Font just made him pay for it, knocked him out in the first round. You get a little wild with Rob Font, he will put you down, and I think that's kind of where this fight, that's where it seems like it's going to play out for me as well. Like, Devinson's getting a little wild, and Rob's going to stick that jab in his face and bust his nose, bust his orbital, something's going to happen. Yeah, and again, I don't see all,

I don't see where Davidson has another game really to go to, right? He doesn't have the, at least we haven't seen him come out with the wrestling to be able to just take him to the ground and hold him down either or do a ground and pound or submissions. You know, of course, it's MMA and, you know, these guys are training everything, so you never know, but, you know, I think from previous performances that we've seen, I'm not seeing where he's going to have the ability to do that.

And you also have to remember, and I always bring this up when guys change weight classes, like some guys change weight classes out of necessity because they struggle in weight cut, but it still doesn't mean they're built for the weight class above them, if that makes sense. Like, just because you struggle to make 125 doesn't just mean you're a natural bantam weight. Like, he just may struggle to get to 125. maybe he's a natural 128-pounder you know what I mean but like doesn't mean you're going because remember now he's going up and fighting guys who are cutting from like 155 like Al Jermaine Sterling walks around like 160 some odd pounds and cuts down to 135 you know what I mean like these are big guys so you know not saying you can't find success we've seen a guys like Robert Whitaker have done it very well when he fought a welterweight and then fought a middleweight but not everyone's going to have that like remember just because you can't make weight or you struggle to make weight in one weight class doesn't just mean you're the best or weight, like, just because you struggle to make weight, doesn't mean you're made for the weight class above you.

I'm not saying that's the case for Devesant. I'm just saying something to keep in mind. It's funny. There's not a lot of guys in MMA that I'm thinking of where I've seen them move up and wait late in the careers and have success with it. Like, it seems like in MMA, it tends to happen earlier on. They realize, like, pretty quickly,

I'm too big for this weight class. They move up and then have success. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. reverse in another fight on this car with Calvin Gastlam, who realized early on, you know, struggle about Welterweight, going to middleweight was a pretty good middleweight. Obviously, he had some struggles there at the end, but he had some big wins there as well. And now he's going back to Welchewat and I'm like, I'll, let me be clear about it, I love

Calvin Gaslam, man. When Calvin Gaslain won the ultimate fighter, I immediately pegged down. I was like, this guy's giving me a contender one day. Like, he was so talented, but he just could not make the weight. Like, he just, I mean, he just could not do it. And then when he did it, he looked bad. Like, we talked about the fight with Neil Magnin. Like, he's just had those fights where it's like, yeah, going back down,

little older in his 30s now, like going back down to Welchard. I don't know, man. Like, maybe, again, you remember years ago, McKinsey Dern struggled badly to get down to 115. And then now it's like no problem. Like, she does it without an issue. Like, she just got her life together, got her nutrition together, and she cuts it without problem. Looks like healthy and happy as ever on the scale.

Maybe we'll see that from Kelvin. do again usually you don't see the reverse a guy who's been at middleweight for whatever five years and he's like i'm going to go back to welterweight i'm like i don't know is that a great idea right right it's interesting with him because like i feel like he could have been stayed at welterweight the whole time and i'm not going to say he was uh i i feel like it was either a lack of discipline or a lack of desire to be more disciplined you know i don't want to say that like you know, like he's obviously a great fighter. He's obviously, you know, an amazing competitor.

But he was undersized for 185. I felt like he was. He was very much worse. He should have been at 170 the whole time. But sometimes success can be one of the worst things that happens to you. Because he had all this success at 185 and was probably not being as disciplined as he should have been because he's like, well, I'm at 185.

now i'm not at 170 but he wasn't able to truly peek out at 185 and truly uh you know maximize his performances where i think at 170 he could but it's going to require him to cut the weight properly get there on weight not kill himself making the weight and he does that and you know the sky's a limit for this guy. Like he said, we know, like, he's that good. He's that guy. Yeah. But. Brady's going to be a fucking test, though. That's what I was going to say. Sean Brady, man, you're not coming back against just any dude. Sean Brady. Sean Brady, listen, yes, he did lose to Belal Muhammad. Not a bad loss. Bilal Muhammad's incredible. I don't take that as a bad loss is all at law. I've talked to I've talked to a lot of guys around Sean Brady, like guys who train with him in Philadelphia.

And every single person I've talked to who trains with Sean Brady says, this is the strongest guy I've ever grappled with. Like, his strength in grappling is ridiculous. Like, when he gets you on the mat, he just moves you around in a way that doesn't seem real for a welterweight. And does that mean, like, again, like, you know, obviously Kelvin has some wrestling in his background as well, but, you know, Sean is an incredible grappler, and he kind of abandoned that a little bit against Bilau.

Like, he went out there and just tried to strike with Bilau and it backfired on him. But, man, this is not an easy test for Kelvin Gasselm coming back. You know what I mean? Like, Sean Brady's a monster. He's talking on top 10. top 12 guy in the world on first day back at welterweight credit to kelvin like certainly taking the challenge and he was going to fight shabcat remember that fight was booked uh so credit to kelvin but man this is not an easy fight well i'd say if that's going to be the interesting

thing is if if sean's you know he went up against blah mohammed thinking he's a striker now he's probably having success in sparring and class and you know train with really good guys having success but when you go out there against someone you never sparred or moved with before and now you're actually fighting under the lights like it's different you know and it requires some time and experience um if he's got that same confidence against Kelvin Gaslam I think he's going to have more problems than he did against um against Balah Muhammad because Kelvin Gasland can box like a motherfucker so he can't I think I think that's part of it with Belize. I think that's part of it with Bilal is because I think he didn't think

Below was very good on the feet and so I think he probably thought I could just beat this guy up and then Bilal's like oh hold on now yes I do wrestle a lot but guess what I got some hands and he surprised him I don't think you'll have that with Kelvin because we know Kelvin has power we know Kelvin has good hands he has

good boxing so I don't think he'll have that same level of confidence because I think again I'm just looking on the outside looking in but I think maybe Sean got a little bit in his own head in that fight like I'm just better than this guy and for some reason people love to underrate belal mohammed it drives me freaking insane he's one of the best two or three welter weights in the world but people continuously underrate him and it's to your own peril

underrate that dude and the next thing you know you're down 49 49 46 on the scorecards or whatever the numbers are or you're getting knocked out in the second round like what happened to sean brady i think that i think that was part of it too like he's just like i'm better than this dude and then belal mohamma's like, no, you're not. So, you know, but I don't think you'll make that mistake a second time. And Kelvin Gasselme is really good. But I am curious, like, on Friday, like, what's it going to look like on the scale? Because I remember watching him when he was fighting a welterweight before.

Oh, man. I mean, he had to cancel the fight with Tyre Woodley when he missed weight. And then, like, he looked like death warmed over. So, like, how's he going to look on the scale? Because, you know, some guys, like, I remember when Aldo did it. And I was like, my God, how's Aldo going to fight the next day? And then he did it. but I'm always a little curious on weigh into how a guy looks.

And Kelvin never looked great when he fought it well to weight. So this is a big test. Like, has he been cutting weight? Has he been doing it the right way? Is his nutrition on point? All those things can play a factor in what he's going to actually look like and a return to well. I'm super curious, but we'll see.

And you do not want to come into a fight drained against an uber strong grappler either. Assuming that that's Sean Brady's gameplay. He might try to stand. and, you know, trade with them too. But you got to think Sean Brady is probably going to look for the takedown. He's an uber strong guy. Maybe he doesn't get the takedown right away. But if you're coming that fight drain, that's going to wear you out quick.

Your arms are going to start getting heavy. Now your boxing is going to come down, right? Your shoulder is going to get heavy, going to get extra tired, extra fast. And then the longer the fight goes, the more it's going to favor the other guy. So there's a lot of, like, little people. pieces to this fight kind of, I guess, you know, that could really kind of behind the scenes. They could play a lot of factors in this fight. Yeah, absolutely.

And I mentioned on the undercard, it's kind of funny. Like on the undercard, Misha Tate is fighting Julia Avala. Julie's been out for like two years. I think she had a kid, so she's been out for a while. And Misha's coming back, going back to Bantua. She had that one fight at flyweight against Lauren Murphy did not go well for her. Now she's going back to Bantuan. It's weird because when Misha came out of retirement,

I know Misha very well. I like Misha very, very much. When she came to retirement, like when she retired, when she lost Raquel Pennington, I remember I was at that fight. And I remember her, you know, calling it a career. And I was kind of like, it's, it almost seemed like a decision made in the moment more than like it was the right time. You know, I'm always, I always, like, we all, we all understand that like in the moment

retirements, like, you know, you lay down your gloves in the ring. It's a cool thing, right? Like, it's a cool moment. And, you know. but I'm always cautious when people do that because there's so much emotion, you know, so much going on there. It's like, it's like I always joke with fighters. Like when you do your post-fight interviews, I'm always like, we should take whatever you say and then just give you like a free pass because sometimes you're emotional. Sometimes you only know what you're saying.

Like it's just a really highly charged situation. Sometimes you don't mean what you say. Or maybe you mean what you do when you retire. So when she retired, it's kind of like, I don't know. though this seems kind of odd but she stuck to it for a while she had a couple kids she got doing different things in her life and then she came back wanted to become a champion again it's not worked out so far you know she had lost to kettle viera she has lost to lauren murphy now she's on the undercard as julia abula listen i love misha tate but you kind of wonder like

is it do or die for her here like does she want to keep going at this level like in terms of now she's i mean i don't think she's super far from a title shot just because she's misha tate but she's got to be two or three wins away from it here. And like if you lose to Giuliavillo, which I think she can beat Julia Adela, but I'm just like, do you want to keep going at this point? Like, is it still, do you still have that fire to want to keep going? If you lose this fight, I don't know. It's an interesting fight with this one.

Yeah, and I wonder, like, after having kids, like how our motivations change, how her daily life has changed, right? Energy levels. There's a lot of mental focus going other ways now. Sometimes that's good. Sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it gives you something to get your mind off shit. Sometimes it pulls you away from what you should be focusing on.

Sometimes it puts things into perspective. It could go a lot of different ways. Obviously when she fought Laura Murphy, things didn't work out in her last fight. But, you know, when you retire like that, you know, I think almost every single fight I ever had at some point in the camp, I'm like, dude, I'm fucking retiring. Some bullshit. Every like long,

real camp you know that's one of the things kind of going back to what we talked about earlier when you're thinking about these short notice fights if you kind of stay in the gym all the time sometimes you kind of like that too you're like hell yeah like I don't have to do a fucking 12 week camp

thank God that shit's exhausting bro you know so you know I don't know how many she's trained hard for those long periods of time you know sometimes

that just gets your emotions you know that just hits you the wrong way it makes you know just just want to not be doing this shit right yeah it's interesting and like I said I you know certainly she's still an incredible fighter but you just wonder like you know

is the motivation going to be there because if she can't get past Julia Avala how far does that put her away from her ultimate goal becoming champion again I mean she's already kind of far away from it right now losing to Ketland Fierrin and then losing a flyweight. So you're like, but, you know, the women's band to win a division mat, for lack of a better word, is terrible.

Not good division right now. So I don't know that she's ever going to be more than a winner two away from being right back in there. I mean, you know, Raquel Pennington's fighting Myra Buenos Silva in January for the title. I mean, I guess it's an all right fight. Yeah, Giuliana Pena out there who hasn't, doesn't hold a win over anybody on the current UFC roster and she's a former champion. So, like, I don't know how farmedia take could possibly be like she may be Julie Aval and maybe she's already a number of. one contender for all I know. So yeah, I guess it's, you know, it's just, but again, these are one, that's like,

sometimes the stakes in these fights are super high one way or the other, because if she wins, she's right back in the thick of it, because this division is a wasteland. Like, it's not a good division, Matt. It's just not. But then a loss, you're like, man, like, you know, can you, like, you know, it's like three in a row. Like, are you really, you know, is it really going to be worth coming? So it's like, not saying it's do or die, but it kind of feels a little bit like that.

Like a win puts you in a great position. A loss puts you in a really bad position. she's not in that point in her career where, in my opinion, where she can just bounce right back, you know what I mean? Like she's an older fighter. She's a veteran. She's not one of these, you know, she's not going to just be, oh, well, give me a fight three months from now, I'll bounce right back.

She's at a different stage in her career, so she may not be able to do that anymore. Yeah. Well, I hope she has a great fight. I don't know much about Julia. What's her last name? Avala. Avala. What's her story?

I don't even know much about her. I was telling people. She's had a couple of fights. So she was one that looked really good early in the UFC. She looked like she could be a future contender. And then she had a tough loss. And then she's been out for like three years or something like that. Something wild.

Like two and a half, three years. She had a kid. And so she's been out of action. Like when she was in there, super talented. It looked like a real good prospect. But yeah, she's just like she's been out of action. So like I think this is a good fight for Misha. I like Misha.

I think Misha probably will win this. But you just never know. Like I said, like time. waits for no one and and why do you why do you think misha is going to win this fight i think misha's experience is a big deal i think she's just got overall better skills i mean julia's certainly not a bad fighter like julia avila is a solid fighter but she's just a lot less experience than the misha and i think the time off let me see her her last fight she won okay so okay let me go back here so she she lost the so jara ubanks and then she beat uh julia stole erenko in 2021 so it's been over two years it was

June of 2021 was her last fight. And she won that one. So she's 4 and 1 in the UFC. She has a win over Gina Mazzani, Panic Kianzad, which is a solid win. And then she has the loss of Sajara U Banks. And then the winner over Julius, Stolia Rinko. So again, not a bad resume.

The time off concerns me because she's still fairly young. Like she's 9 and 2 in her overall career. Like to be out for over two years, almost three years now, it's kind of concerning. But yeah, I just, I don't know. maybe I just have too much faith of Misha. I just think Misha's still like her grappling still good or boxing still solid I still think she's just a better overall fighter

but you know we're going to find out I know Jermaine Durandami's coming back I talked to Jermaine fairly recently she's coming back to fight again I think she's going to inject some fun in this division because she has a win over she has wins over Raquel Pennington and Angiola Pena so I think she's coming back that could be good but yeah we need to this division

it's so weird because like when this division was around like when Rondo was a It was like the biggest division in the world. And then Amanda Nunes comes in. She wrecks shop and it's still a good division. But Amanda leaving, man, this leaves a big giant vacuum in this division where it's like, that's a tough. It's not like when George St. Pierre left Welterweight and there's still like a monster's

list of welterweight. Like that's not really the case of Bandaway in the women's division. So like Holly Holmes lost like two in a row, two or three every last three. I can't remember how many in a row. She's lost. You know, Juliana Pena, as I said. She has a winner over Amanda Nunes, but she actually does not have a sense. single win over anyone on the current UFC roster.

That's an issue. You know, so I don't know. It's like I said, but I still have faith of Misha Tate. So I think I think she'll get it done. But we'll see. Does she headlining the undercard? No, she's actually not headlining the undercard. It's, uh, she's the second fight from the top of the undercard.

The headliner is, uh, Clay Guida against, uh, Joachim Silva is the, uh, is the prelim headliner and, you know, Clay, old school Clay Guida. Although I'm still not used to Clay Guida with short hair. When he cut his hair off, I was like, this is weird to me. I can't get used to Clay Guido with no hair. All right, man. I always watch a Clay Guida fight. Freaking love I do.

Love seeing him still around. He's got to be at least top two or three longest tenured fighters in the UFC at this point. Yeah, up there. He's up there. Speaking of which, you know, we always talk about Jim Miller on this show. Oh, Jim Miller books a fight in January. He's not waiting around. He wants to fight UFC 300.

He's like, oh, every time I texted Jim. Jim about UFC 300 because, you know, I was trying to put the fight together with you and him, even though, like, again, my loyalties are, you know, I love Jim. You know that. Jim's a great dude. And obviously, we do the podcast, one of my closest friends. So, like, on a friend level, it's like, it would bum me out. But also on a personal, on a professional level, it would be a great fight for UFC 300.

Two legends, you know what I mean? I think it'd be a blast. But Jim kept saying, like, I don't want to wait to 300. I want to fight. Like, I want to fight before then. Sure enough, January is in Gabriel Benitez. He's like, I'm fighting. Like, dude, I love that demeanor.

Like, yes, fighting UFC 300 would be incredibly special considering he fought at 100 and 200. But Jim's a fighter, man. He's not going to turn down a fight. He's not going to say, no, no, no, let me set out an extra four months. No, give me a fight in January. I love that attitude. Yeah, he's a fucking warrior, man.

Love that dude. I think I'm the same way as you. Like, you know, I don't know him personally, but I feel like I'd probably get along with him well. You know, we'd go have some beers together or something. I don't drink beer, but, Yeah, he'd have a beer and I could hang out there with him or something. But, you know, I'm fought guys I liked before, you know.

Yeah. That's what we do. We beat each other's ass and then we hang out after and enjoy each other's company, man. That's just part of the game. Yeah, but I appreciate that attitude. He's like, yeah, I want to fight a 300, but I'm not going to sit around and wait for it. Like, you know, because one thing he told me, I remember I had him on the show after his last win. He's like, dude, he's like, the worst things happen to me when I'm not getting ready

for a fight. He's like, I have dumb shit. He's like, I think he said he like stepped on a nail or something in his garage. He's like, dumb shit happens to me when I'm not that's when the stupid shit happens to me is when I'm not getting ready for a fight. He's like, when I'm getting ready for a fight is when I'm actually focused I'm not doing other shit. So I'm like, I guess

I can understand that. He's like, if I sit around for six months, something dumb will happen and I'll end up being injured anyways. Yeah, I can totally sympathize with that. I totally get it. We ain't got shit to do. We don't want to do anything. else. Once you fight in that cage, particularly the UFC cage, but any cage, I don't know how any man

would ever want to do anything else with his life ever. Yeah, that's what I said, but UFC 300, like I said, there's still opportunities out there, Jim Miller. I still think you and Paul Felder be a fun fight at UFC 300. Just on that out there's an idea. Paul Felder's talking about coming back. I think that'd be a fun one too. Like I like those legend fights. Paul Felder coming back, I think that'd be fun. He fought it Walt away before. Well, call up Sean Shelby, give him the words and see if you get a job as UFC Matchmaker. I try. I try to be in Matchmaker all the time. Did you, uh...

Boarding for Flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won!

Beal the fun! Play Ojo! Boarding will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 Plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. concerned about your gambling or that if someone close you, call 1-866-5-3-3-1-2-6-00 or visit ComexOntario.ca. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too.

That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Did you watch any of the PFL on Friday? I did not. Interesting card. Last year's championship card was a blast. I think it was like eight fights on the main card and six of them had finishes.

Crazy. This year was the exact opposite. It was like every fight went to a decision with the exception of like two fights. And I'm just being honest, they were not all great fights. They were okay at best. Like there was a couple good ones in there,

but for the most part it was not the most exhilarating card of the year. There were some production issues in there. They kept doing, they kept doing Zoom interviews during fights. Like they had, like they were doing the heavyweight fight in the, in the tournament finals. They had Ryan Bader zoom in as like the Bellator champion. And he's like talking during the fight, but he's not there.

It's like they had Jake Paul doing commentary during Larissa Pacheco's fight, but he's on Zoom. It's like the, it was the weirdest. Like, it was so bizarre. Yeah, that's funny because I was at a restaurant and I seen that. on the TV or a bar or something. I forget where I was at. But I seen it on TV. I think this was PFL.

I seen a Zoom call on the bottom of the screen during the fight. And it was like a girl who was like, I was like, who's this girl? And somebody else told me that she's like, she's a swimmer or, or some, like an Olympic athlete or some shit or a tennis player or something. I don't, I don't remember that one. But yeah, it was that, like in the middle of the fight. So they had Jake Paul for one. Oh, they had Wiz Khalifa, the rapper.

They had him on there, like, four times doing, like, breakdowns and stuff. And I'm like, Alan Joban messaged me, or, you know, tweeted at me when I, when I tweeted about Jake Paul. And he's just like, he's like, yeah, this isn't a good look. I was like, it comes off kind of like amateur hour a little bit because we have guest commentators all the time. Like, you'll see, like, occasionally UFC will have, like, when they have their three-man booths, they'll have somebody come sit with them to commentate a fight. But, like, if you're not going to have them at the arena, the Zoom thing does not. not work. It's just where you're on a time delay and like it just it just screams unprofessional.

Yeah, and if they're like not at the fight, like that doesn't show a lot of interest in the fight. Yeah. When I get it, but like the Bellator guys, I understand because they just bought it. So like, I talked to Ryan Bader last week. He was on a hunt the day the news broke. So like he was out and about. Like he didn't even know what happened. So for him to like pick up his life and fly to Washington to go to the fights. I get that. I understand you probably can't do that. But then just don't do it. Like, just not don't do a weird Zoom thing.

Like, Jake Paul's getting ready for a fight of his own in a couple weeks, so he couldn't be there. He's like, I think he's down in Puerto Rico where he trains. But they had him on Zoom. And like, it wasn't even anything to do with him. Like, it was commenting on Larissa Pacheco's fight of all things. Like, what sense does that make?

Like, you just wanted to have the guys zoom in for an interview. Great. But like, why is he there commenting on Larissa Pacheco's? fight like what sense does that make especially when he's not known or respected in any manner as an authority on mma fights yeah like he did he made some he made some comment during the fight where he's like someone should have gone left instead of right on a grappling exchange and i was like oh my god this is just like i'm not saying he's wrong but i'm just saying like this is you know it's one thing of like daniel cornea says it that's an expert opinion

Paul Felder says it, Dominic Cruz says it, Michael Bisping says it. That's an expert opinion. Jake Paul giving jiu-jitsu advice to Larissa Pacheco, probably not the way we want to go here. I'm just saying. Like, it's probably not the best idea. Yeah, yeah. It's almost like our political leaders giving us advice on how to live. Yeah, it's like when a billionaire tells you how you should be living your life.

I'm like, dude, you give me a billion dollars. I'll live my life a lot differently. Promise you like that. It's harder for you to tell me how to live my life when you just live in the lap of luxury and you can have anything of your fingertips. A little harder for me, you know, whatever. But yeah, it was just weird.

It was just like a really odd setup. But, you know, it was all right. It was what it was. I mean, it sets up some fights for next year doing the champ versus champ car, which I do enjoy. One thing I wanted to bring up, though, talking about Jake Paul. Jake was on there once again,

you know, talking about doing his MMA fight next year. He says he's still going to do it. I'm skeptical at best. that Jake's going to actually fight MMA next year. But he keeps calling for this Nate Diaz fight. Don Davis, the PFL founder, said they're up in the ante to pay Nate Diaz like $15

million to do an MMA fight with Jake Paul. Now, two things I want to say about this, Matt, real quick. One, if I'm Nate Diaz, run, don't walk, take that money for what could be the easiest payday of your life.

Jake Paul making his MMA debut against Nate fucking Diaz is a mismatch. It's a mismatch. Two, listen, we kind of, I won't say we dog the PF, we didn't dog, I just, last week we talked about PFL when they kept saying co-leader, co-leader, and we said, listen, you're not the co-leader. You're not the UFC.

You're not going to be the UFC. You're never going to be the UFC. Stop doing it. I kept saying on the podcast last week, Matt, stop making me do this, PFL. Like, just stop making me like, because I root for PFL. I want PFL to succeed. really, really do. Is paying Nate Diaz $15 million, and I assume you're going to pay Jake Paul similar money,

$10 to $15 million for them? Is paying those two guys $25 million combined for a pay-per-view? Is that the best business decision? I mean, I'm just throwing that out there. Like, is that really the best business decision for your company to spend, let's just say hypothetically, $30 million on one fight? Is that the best business decision? You know, I think it's a good question.

I don't know. You know, they must project a certain amount of pay-per-views and a certain gate. You know, they certainly think that Jake Paul is going to bring in a lot. You know, they're probably basing the numbers off of their boxing match, I'm guessing. Yeah, they did. Boxing match did really, really well. I heard it did over 700,000 pay-per-view buys.

Yeah, I mean, if they're going to get that many out of an MMA match, I think it's a fair pay, right? I mean, I think it's probably what it should be. But if I'm Nate Diaz, dude, run, don't walk, take that money. $15 million. Listen, listen, we were all proven wrong that Francis and Ghanu was able to take Tyson Fury to a split decision and a really close fight in that boxing match. We're all shocked by that. But the reverse of a boxer coming to MMA has never gone well.

Yes, Ray Mercer knocked out Tim Sylvia once upon a time, but that's just such an anomaly and such a weird moment. But it's the same thing I say about PFL. I like Jake Paul, and I have no problem that Jake Paul is doing MMA. Like, I'm good for him. Like, I'm glad he's doing it. I'm still very skeptical. He's actually going to do it because he keeps talking about this boxing career

and I'm going to be a champion. Well, pick a lane. Like, if you're going to be a boxing champion, stick to boxing. But coming into MMA, day, eight one and fighting a guy like need dyes that to me just screams recipe for disaster well you know me and you kind of disagree on this before that's why they call it the fighter versus the rider or the rider versus the fighter who got to put the writer first right i'm gonna disagree again jake paul is going to i'm gonna pick him to win you're gonna pick him to be nay dyes i'm gonna pick him

to beat Nate Diaz in MMA. Why? Give me the reason why. So we already know he can outbox him, right? Yeah. When was the last time you seen Nate Diaz take someone down? Well, when he grabbed a guillotine choke and choked out Tony Ferguson. He did that like a year ago, a year and a half ago. Took him down?

He got him in the guillotine. I remember how it happened, but I know he got him in the guillotine and finished that. I can't remember the finish. Well, you don't get someone to guillotine by taking them down. Yeah, I don't know. how it happened, but I think he'll be able to take him down, even if he tries to. Like, he's way, way undersized. Jake Paul is so much bigger than him.

I don't know what way did it be at, probably 185. Yeah, 185, I guess. Nate's not a great wrestler. It's going to end up staying on the feet. And you think on the feet Jake Paul beats Nate Diaz in an MMA fight? Well, what difference would it be, like, if it stays on the feet? I mean, you got to throw in kicks, elbows, things you didn't have in a boxing match. He can train.

First, they rarely throws elbows. Really doesn't throw kicks a whole lot. Like, he's primarily an MMA boxer. Like, that's kind of, like, his inmate style is like he pressures you. You know, he outboxes you and pressures you until you take him down or, you know, grab a hold of him. And of course, that's what he wants. Right now he can do his jiu jitzu game. that's just it's just a bad matchup like i wouldn't pick very many people to be able to do that

but i don't think nate would be able to take him down and we already know what's going to happen how it's going to look on the feet now maybe you know Nate pull like jake will train you know for kicks and elbows knees and all that stuff and they might have a little effect but i don't see Nate finishing him with a kick or you know or even really chopping him down you know or elbowing him anything it's just not his style i think jake's biggest advantage in that fight would be his size he'd be a lot bigger because we had this conversation with a box that nate ds wrestling that means a lot too it does it does but in my opinion it just takes one slip he puts his head down in the wrong manner and and nate grabs a guillotine and falls down jake's not getting out he gets he falls into the guard

with nadez any people forget nadez is a world-class jitzy guy he's going to tap him out He's going to choke him out. He's going to catch him in a submission. Size matters, absolutely. But I think Nate Diaz beats him, you know, 99 times out of 100, in my opinion. Like, Jake Paul has the size. But I just debut, if it was just like, if he had like five MMA fights, had a little experience, maybe I'd be a little bit more confident about this.

But in his first MMA fight, there's so much that can go wrong. So much. I would one thing I'll say about that is you know Jake Paul I would say that for 90% of people 99.9% of people I do believe Jake Paul is very

comfortable and used to being in front of people and isn't necessarily like nervous about losing or anything. I didn't think he would handle boxing as well as he did but he handled it very well. His demeanor, his mindset, like he looked

like a season boxer straight away. I thought that would play a big role, even when he fought Ben Ascran. Now, granted, I thought Ben Ascran would train and actually be able to do something as a boxer. You know, I was like, dude, he's a world-class athlete. Apparently not so. A world-class wrestler, not a world-class athlete.

All of the Ben Ascran, by the way. But we've seen in all of his fights, Like he doesn't come in unprepared physically or mentally. Like he is a performer and he is good at getting in front of people and performing. So I don't think that's going to play his big role. I think he will perform his potential because he will have the rounds in sparring. And it would be as if he already did, you know, five, six, ten, whatever MMA fights. Like he's going to be well prepared for it.

And I think his mindset, you know, there's not a lot of credit I'm going to give to Jake Paul as an athlete. But I will give him credit in his mindset seems very on point. So how does he win? How does he beat Nadeez, in your opinion? We just outboxes him decision. All right. There's your headline right there, boys and girls, because I did not see that one coming. I, uh, yeah, I did, I didn't match you.

I love Nate Diaz. I don't want to be like I'm putting him down anything like I'm picking Jake Ball to beat him I mean that's it like you picked Jake Ball to beat Nate Diaz you said it. Well yeah yeah but you know I don't like saying it like I don't enjoy that I feel that way like I would

I hope that Nate Diaz wins like I would cheer for him and I will a thousand percent roofer I would I'd love to get train with him and coach him and be like look wrestle this whole fucking camp take this motherfucker down like do fucking

eminari rolls whatever you got to do like full guard get this motherfucker to the fucking ground because you already know you can't outbox him do I think Nate Diaz will do that I do not that is the whole thing right there I don't remember seeing a single

fight with Nate Diaz where I seen him shoot for a takedown yeah I mean you're not wrong I just I don't know I just think it's like you know I just I still logically because you're going off off all like primary MMA logic a boxer coming into MMA fighting a seasoned great MMA fighter like it makes no sense that the boxer would win

but we've already seen them fight like you know and the size and you know this is this is one of the rare instances where that logic isn't coming together at a crossroads where it should be. Yeah. So do you think Nate Diaz should take the fight there for $15 million? Well, I mean, that's, yeah. I mean, listen, dude, you lose to Jake Paul. That would be devastating.

I don't think it would happen, but he loses to Jake Paul. But again, $15 million is a lot of money. Now, I gave you my side. What's your side? What's, where is Nate Diaz's path to Victor? victory. Nate Diaz's path to victory is closing the distance, jumping for a guillotine, and tapping him out. And the fight last three minutes. One guillotine is over. Jumping for a guillotine?

All he has to do is get to clinch one time and jump for a guillotine, and it's over. And it's not because I think Jake Paul's not a good athlete. I think Jake Paul's a great athlete. He will have a size advantage. But the Jake Paul and Nate Diaz in boxing, we saw. the levels. Like, if it's a, if it's out of 10, and I'm not saying Jake is a 10, like, he's like Canello level boxer or Benavides who won on Saturday night. I'm just saying, like, if he's a 10. And a great fight, by the way. Yeah, absolutely. 10. And let's just say Nate was a 6, right? Like, Nate wasn't as good as Jake Paul in that fight? Like, it was pretty clear. But he hung around. He's stuck around, right? In MMA, if Nate's a 10,

Jake Paul's going to be like a two coming in or a one maybe, because he does have boxing. And I know everyone likes to talk about his wrestling, he wrestled for like a year and a half in high school. And then he quit because he started making money doing social media stuff. He's not Logan. Logan actually did wrestle and placed fifth here in Ohio. Like he was a legitimate, he could have gone to college.

He was supposed to go to college to wrestle, and then he became famous and didn't have to do it. But, yeah, like, I'm not saying Jake is terrible. I'm not saying Jake couldn't develop into something. I'm just saying for your first fight, your debut, against a world-class jiu-jitsu guy, he just needs one. He just needs

one slip, one moment for Jake to not to close the distance and allow him to grab a hold of him whether it's a guillotine or he just grabs and pulls a guard. Whatever the case may be, all Nate Diaz has to do is get close once, get the fight to the ground and Jake won't

get back up again. I hope that he does. You know, I think Jake is I don't want to say to me good things about the guy because I just don't. But I got to give credit with credits do.

Like the guy's a pretty good athlete. You know, he's a very, very solid athlete. I think with the size and the athleticism, Jiu-Jitsu really isn't that hard to beat. I mean, you know, like you said, it is MMA. Like, there's all these crazy things that happen. Nate Diaz knows how to get a fight to where he wants to get it. Like, there's a lot of things.

but when you're that much bigger and you're athletic, assuming that he has actually been training M.A. Like I'm going off the assumption that he's been doing jiu-jitsu too already. And obviously, we got to assume if he's fighting A.D.S. He's going to go to AKA or American Tide. He's going to join a real gym and train, I would assume. Yeah, yeah. And I'm also making the assumption, like he's already been wrestling and doing jiu-suitzoo.

like he's not going to wait until that fight gets signed and do you know two three months of mhm a jiu jitsu while doing promo tours and all this shit yeah like he's probably already game ready it doesn't take that long if you if you're the bigger stronger more athletic guy it doesn't take that long to beat jiu jihitsu all right well the most part yeah no there are again it's m m m m like i agree it is it is defensively, not even offensively, defensively, it's easier to defend. I will agree.

That's why I always say wrestling is the best base for MMA because wrestling is the hardest thing to learn. Like, it's hard to get good at wrestling. I'm not saying it's easy to get good at a striker. You're easy to get a good at Jiu-Zitsu. I'm just saying of the arts that make up mixed martial arts, wrestling to me is the hardest to learn and do it at a high level, right? You can learn how to defend in Jiu-Jitsu.

Not saying you have to be off a face. certainly not going to go out there and try to go for an arm bar and Nate Fricken Diaz, but as long as he can defend it, that's the key. How do you get out of a guillotine? How do you get out of a triangle? How do you stay away for an arm bar? I will agree that is I just, again, first fight.

And again, I know it's different things. I know it's different fighters, but Clarissa Shields, who is a legitimately world-class boxer, she's not Jake Paul. She is a world-class high-level boxer looked like a fish out of water in her couple of MMA fights. She looked like she had zero idea what she was really

doing and she trained to Jackson's. It wasn't like she trained to some bum gym and didn't have good people around her. She had Holly Holmohm advising her who was a fighter who made the transition from boxing in MMA and she looked so uncomfortable out there. She looked so uncomfortable in her couple of fights in MMA. She won one

and then she lost the second one. I just, I don't know. Jake Paul winning an MMA fight absolutely could see that happen. Maybe even making a career of it in a couple of fights. Sure. Beating Nate Diaz on day one, I don't see it. well I'll put some money on it

you're still you're still you're still holding on to that hope you get me back with well this can finally be after 10 years or double or nothing if they actually fight I will absolutely bet you on that one but I did not I did not have

Matt Brown picks Jake Paul to beat Nate Diaz in my bingo card today I did not see that one coming yeah there you go so Jake Paul's gonna be giving you a call maybe hang out and it's Ohio boys you guys are going to be hanging out and training and helping Jake Paul get ready for Renee Diaz.

I could teach him, bro. He is Ohio. He's a big Ohio guy. Maybe he comes back here and trains at a mortal martial arts. Maybe he can help out Jake Paul. I don't charge a lot. Guarantee. Relative to his income.

Guarantee he's going to love hearing that somebody's picking him to win. I guarantee he's going to love to hear that. Well, I think it would actually be a fun fight. You know, I think regardless of what happens, I do think it would be a fun fight. fight and it will actually be interesting. I think it's more interesting than a boxing match. I agree.

But if I'm Nate Diaz and they offer you $15 million, I'll take that all day. I mean, you know. Yeah, I'm sure he's already called him. Like, let's go. Yeah, let's go right now, $15 million. You just send me the contract today so we can get this over with. Yeah, seriously. That's a lot of money.

And yeah, because Jake has his boxing match coming up in December. And then he's taking on an actual pro boxer. Doesn't have like the greatest resume. He's 10 and 1, but you know, there's 10 and 1. So we'll see what happens when he fights him. But listen, kudos to Jake. Who's he fighting? Andre August is the guy's name.

Also, it's not even a big name or something. So he's actually going to try to be a boxer. Yeah, he's fighting some random. He's 10 and 1. He's like 10 and 1. Now when you look at the guy's 10 in 1 record, you look who he's 10 and 1 against, you know, but that's boxing. I mean, that's just boxing.

I mean, look at it. look at Canello's record through 15 fights and see how many records see what the guys he was fighting at that point like that's just boxing like that's unless you're vassal lo machinko you're not fighting world-class boxers at your first 10 or 12 fights like that's just not normal yeah exactly so that's actually pretty cool that Jake is doing that though I respect it you know rather the fact that the dude's not a huge name you know it means Jake has a lot to lose here you know there's still going to be a lot of eyeballs on it. Still will be a lot of people watching. He's got a lot to lose. I respect it.

No, I do too. Absolutely. No, I absolutely standing up to his word and saying you want to fight real boxers. I don't care. I mean, the guy's 10 and 1, it's on box record. That's the website where they have boxing records, right? Box wreck. It's on there. He's 10 and 1. Like, you know, you can sit here and pick apart his opponents and say his opponents are terrible. But that's every boxer. Every boxer has an inflated record through their first 10, 15 fights. Like, that's just normal stuff. Yeah, a lot of that, you know, they call it inflated record. Lava's not even necessarily inflated record.

It's like, you know, building your record. Yeah. And it's getting your name out there and it's learning who you are as a pro boxer. And, you know, the promoters getting to see you. And, you know what I mean? And see, okay, is this guy actually going to be good? And they'll put like different types of matchups. Like, like, okay, this guy might be, you know, five and five or something.

But he's got a really, really good right hand. how are you going to handle that? Or he's a South Paul, or he's a South Paul. How do you handle a South Paul? Things like that. Yeah. No, you're right. And also, a lot of boxers don't have a big amateur career either.

Like, they're kind of, their pro career starting out is almost like an amateur. Now, you do get the guys like Mayweather and Anthony Joshua go up to the Olympics and things like that. But not every boxer goes that route. So your first 10 or 15 fights are also kind of learning and becoming who you're going to become as a boxer. Like, that's just, that's one criticism I've never agreed with. game to Jake Paul, some people saying, oh, he's not legit. I would argue Tyron Woodley is probably a better fight than 90% of the boxers who

they're fighting in their first 10 fights. Like, there's a, dude, you are getting. Anderson Silva. Yeah, you're getting full on, like, come on. Like, there's, guarantee, Matt, you've never, I mean, you have bought, you obviously you're not, like, you're not a professional boxer. I guarantee you there's like a thousand boxers out there with a 5-0 record who you would absolutely demolish on day one because they're not, like, that's just the point.

You're not, when boxers start out, they're not fighting the best. Like you said, they're fighting guys who are, okay, this guy has a good right. And this guy has a good jab. He sucks everywhere else, but he has a good jab. Let's see how you handle the jab. Or let's see how you handle a south ball. Or let's just see how you handle a taller guy. Or, you know, whatever.

And also, that's just, that's just common in boxing. Jake Paul's, whatever he is, like seven and one. He would probably be his 20th fight until he probably actually fights anyone really good. Like, that's pretty normal. And to be fair, like, Jake Paul probably won't get to get those 20 fights before he fights somebody good. Right. If he does another 10 fights with these, you know, kind of fake 10 and 1 guys, like you're talking about, like he's going to be getting called out all over the place.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's also, and that's also goes to MMA too. Like when he does MMA, like, it's going to be hard to promote him against just some dude. Now, does he need to fight night and fight on day one? and maybe not, but it's same thing. Like he's not going to get the normal road of like, you know, he's going to become a, you know, and he's going to go through LFA and, you know, the contender series.

You know, he's not, he's just too big of a name to do that. That's exactly right. So, you know, we can hate on it. There's a lot to hate on. He gives you a lot of reasons to hate. But there's some things to respect, too. You got to look at both sides of that. And you got to call a spade a spade there.

I've said it many times. I may be picking Nate Diaz. to beat him in an MMA fight, but I like Jake Paul. I like what Jake Paul. I don't have a problem with what Jake Paul does. And I appreciate a lot of the boxers who talk about, I know Andre Ward talked about this couple of other guys. Like, ultimately he's bringing eyeballs to the sport.

And that's what, listen, I don't think he's disgracing boxing by being a boxer. Like he likes boxing. He loves it. Good for him. Just like with M.M.A. I have zero problem with him doing M.A. I'm glad he's doing it. Bring more eyeballs because, you know, I know I've told this story before.

When I went to his fight with Tyron Woodley in Cleveland, a couple years ago, I've been to a million UFC shows, like a million. And I've only been to a couple boxing matches in my career. I've been to a couple K-1 events back in the day, been to a couple of jih Tzu things. I have never seen a crowd,

like the one I saw at Jake Paul's fight of like 16, 15, 14-year-old people. They were so into it, though. Like, they were there from the first fight. I mean, they were early. Like, you never see that. Like, they were there early. They were screaming.

They were hiding. Nobody better, did they? They were buying merch, like they were buying, like, that's, that's the audience you want to bring in. That's what Jake Paul brought into that fight. Like, I have never seen an audience. Like, I had, you know, they give us credentials. Like, I had my credential on that night. I had, like, nine different people try to buy my credential because they wanted, like, you know, souvenirs from the fights.

And it's just like little kids with their parents coming up. Like, can I buy your credit? Like, I was, of course, like, no, but they're like, they're into it. That's the audience he's bringing. And good for him. Like I said, I don't have a problem with any of that. Like, do I think he's going to beat Nate Diaz and an MMA fight on day one? No, but that doesn't mean I don't care.

Like, I appreciate he's doing it. Good for him. Dude, does Jake Paul still do YouTube? He does. Yeah, he still has a YouTube channel. Like, what is it nowadays? He does a lot of, like, behind the scene stuff. He did one, like, a few months ago I saw that was pretty funny.

Like, he bought a Lamborghini or something. And on, like, day one of his owning a Lamborghini. Brigini he broke it, which was like a video that he posted. He like ran it to like he just gassed it and went like 120 miles an hour and ended up breaking something. Stuff like that, like goofy videos like that. But it still gets trash. He has a pot.

Yeah, he does his podcast with Logan. He has his own podcast thing. So it's stuff like that. I don't think he does. He certainly doesn't do the goofy like prank videos and, you know, stupid jackass kind of like, you know, let's take a punch to the nuts and see who can take the best punch to the nuts kind of videos. But he still does content.

And I think at this point, he's got like 10 million subscribers or whatever. Like people just inherently watch it because it's Jake Paul, you know, so he's just kind of like built into it. Yeah, well, that good for him, man. Yeah, I got no problem. Like I said, I got zero problem with Jake Paul doing boxing, MMA, whatever, dude, good for you. Like, I'm all for it. And if he can, and also to that $15 million price point, if he can come in on day one and get paid $10 million or $15 million and get an ADS pay $15 million, good for you. because guess what?

Bet you name Diaz fought a hell of a lot of fights in the UFC. They didn't make $15 million. Yeah, that's a fact. So, yeah, I mean, it's a pretty cool thing, man. I like Jake Paul now. Yeah, Jake Paul, come to a mortal martial arts train. He picked you to beat Nate Diaz, so you might as well come up here to Ohio and train at home.

Yeah, bro. I'll only take 5%. There you go. See, there you go. I like it. The hometown discount, 5%. I like it. All right.

That's our show. we're going to close that on. Oh yeah, I didn't even mention this week. We're not going to break it. That's what I mentioned it's coming this week. And we talk about the UFC. We talked about other stuff going on. Saturday night also is Mike Perry against Eddie Alvarez in a bare-knuckle fight. That's going to be sick, bro. Dude, I'm so excited. I'm so excited.

So I interviewed Mike Perry last week real quick before we get out of here. I interviewed Mike Perry last week. I've turned it, Mike Perry has turned into one of my favorite interviews in a sport. Well-spoken dude, funny dude. Love chatting with him. Really, really, really enjoys chatting with him. when Mike Perry showed up in the UFC he was like to me he always seemed like insane like he always just seemed like a crazy like completely out there dude getting to know him through interviews and stuff like he's actually a really funny smart guy and I I love what he's doing in BKFC man like he was made for that sport him and Eddie Alvarez is a banger that's a great fight uh Ben out Ben Rothwell's fighting Todd Duffy on that card that's a fun fight like dude I love it man I love it BKFC's doing yeah i just wish uh they could throw elbows yeah i do a little more throw a little moody although did you see

the sanchai uh uh that fight the one we talked about yeah yeah it played out pretty much exactly what you said they really got fights well i think they really fought well i think boo cow really i'm not sure if sanchi did though he did not look it was weird it was weird he looked off or something he looked really slow so i couldn't tell if it's because he wasn't trying or if his because maybe, you know, it could have been sick, you know, whatever. But he did not look good at all. Yeah, that was a weird one.

It was a weird one. But dude, Saturday night, man, you got Armusarik and Benile Darius, Mike Perry, Eddie Alvarez, a hell of a good weekend for fights. Yeah, let's go. And I mean, the UFC card, we've been talking about the whole time.

It's fucking stacked. It's going to be a great weekend. I will be in Florida for a seminar. So I'll be watching. down there. So if anybody from where's it at? I don't even know where I'm doing the seminars. The Tampa area, I think. So anybody around there,

come on out to the seminar. I don't know. I forget the gym that it's at. So is that on Saturday? Is it on Saturday and Sunday, actually? Two days seminars. Okay. Yeah, so not pumping it up very well, I guess. No. Where's that? When are you flying home? Sunday night. Okay. So we'll do the podcast when you get home, I guess.

Yeah, or maybe down there. That's true. Sunday. Well, yeah, if I have time, maybe at the airport, maybe Monday. I don't know. I don't even know my schedule. We'll knock it out. We always do.

We'll get down on Monday of nothing else. You got the old seminar going down there. Got to make that money. Yeah, so to that point, check out Matt Brown's sort of an unknown seminar in Tampa maybe. That's my best promotion for it. I think it's in Tampa maybe. What else can people do if they want to support you? Maybe you can find out more.

you'll, I'm sure you'll post about the seminar at some point. Yeah, well, I'll post about it. And you can check out the post whenever I put it up. It should be up. I think I posted about already. And that's, I'm the immortal, Twitter and Instagram, you know, to check out, I'm the immortal, no, check out the immortal coffee at the immortal coffee on Twitter and Instagram. And, yeah, you know, also I always forget to mention my little creatine gummies that I get every day.

these things are great man you take creotene damon i don't but i see you post about him i saw you post about him the other day and i was like that looks so cool it's such a good idea to have creatine gummies yes and not only is they cool but um man you should look into creatine you know there's so many benefits the brain the muscles just the cognitive benefits they've done tons of research on it's amazing it's the most studied supplement in history like and these comes even close. And these are, this is creatine in a gummy form.

It tastes fucking great, bro. Like I wake up every day. It's the first thing I do is take a gummy. And I look forward to it, you know? It's, I wish I could take more. You know, I want to eat them all the time.

They taste great. That's amazing. Yeah. So you're creating gummies. I remember you telling me about that. I was like, that's a really cool concept. I only thought of that.

So I like that. So you check my Instagram. I have a link in a bio on Instagram for the creatine gum. and, you know, you can support me right there. There you go. All right, folks. We'll be back next week after Matt returns from Florida.

Hopefully makes it back from the crocodiles and alligators, where the fuck else is going down in Florida. And we'll have lots to talk about with the UFC Austin card. Of course, BKFC also on Saturday. It's going to be a great weekend for fights. Next weekend we got a UFC card. Actually, Anthony Smith has stepped up on short notice to fight Kalil Roundtree next weekend.

That's an interesting fight. And then, of course, we're rolling right into UFC 296, the year-in card with Colby Covington and Leon Edwards. so we'll talk more about that in the next couple weeks as well. As always, check out the podcast on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. We'll be back next week with another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. Thank you.