MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Looks Back at Infamous Lemon Juice Prank on TUF Plus Who Is Francis Ngannou’s Ideal First Opponent in Boxing?

Episode Date: May 30, 2023

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin discuss the upcoming season of The Ultimate Fighter where Conor McGregor and Michael Chandler serve as coaches. Brown reminisces about his own appearance on the reality show back in season 8 and how much the series has changed over the years. He will also look back at the infamous lemon juice prank played on him that led to a satisfying win for him on the show. We’ll also discuss the recently announced boxing match between Terrence Crawford and Errol Spence Jr. plus give our early picks on the fight. Plus, we’ll debate who would be the best opponent for Francis Ngannou as he makes the move into boxing? Should he bother with a warmup fight or go after a top heavyweight like Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua or Deontay Wilder? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine.

Available now, only from Audible. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the Fighter versus the writer. I'm your host, as always, Damon Martin. He is the man with the most knockouts in UFC history. He is Matt Brown. Matt, what's going on in this fine? We're recording this on Memorial Day,

but we're still here for everybody talking to MMA, Even on a holiday, we don't go away. Yeah, I never go away, bro. Staying on the grind 24-7, man. But I got a little barbecue to go to later. But that's why we're here, man. Before the barbecue, if I talk to me after, I'm going to be lazy and ready to go to sleep.

Are you now, barbecue? Are you like a burger guy, a ribs guy? Like, what's your barbecue? Like, what's your meal of choice at a barbecue? Depends on who's doing the barbecue, right? If they know how to cook right, like I want some steak or some ribs. Otherwise, like anybody can do a burger, right?

Yeah. Dude, it depends on the skill level. I remember growing up at all of our family barbecues. Like, it was without fail, we had the driest food ever. Like, we never had, like, really good moistly. It was always, like, the driest-ass burgers, the driest-ass steaks. It was the worst. Yep, that's what I say.

It comes down to the skill level, bro. I've had some bad ones. I've cooked some bad ones. but I actually sold my barbecue I don't even have one this year but it's like I don't know everybody wants to do all that fucking work I'm like dude I'll come to your barbecue

you do the fucking work I'm just gonna eat the food yeah I like there's certainly like you could obviously you can barbecue year around like I understand that like all that but like dude we get such crappy winter here in Ohio like it's got like if I owned a house like getting a pool I'd be like I can only use a pool like three months a year

like you know if I lived in like Arizona or California like that would be a good place for a pool. But out here, you're like, oh, you can use it from like June to August and that's it. Like, that's kind of like how I feel like if I bought like a big Trager grill or something. Like,

it'd be cool, but like it's snowed and, you know, it's 12 degrees outside November. Do you really want to be outside, like, grilling? Like,

maybe I'm just like a wuss, but like, I'm like, do I really want to be standing outside cooking steaks in 12 degree weather in Ohio, you know? I feel it, man. That's the only thing that sucks about having a motorcycle here.

Like, I put like, you know, a few thousand miles a year on it, bro, it's like, God damn, like, why do you even have this thing, man? I think about selling it all the time. But, you know, there's times when you get it out. You love it and it's worth all the time, you know?

You know my love how much I want a Harley. Like, I want one so bad, but I can't justify it here. I just can't. Like, the money I'd put into it. I'd never get to use it. Like, I just never get to. Like, I have a garage and everything. Like, I have a good place to store it.

But I just, dude, I get to drive it like three months a year, four months a year. And because here we get rain, too. So it's like you can't really, you know, like, you're not really wanting to go out when it's freaking pouring down rain either, and that's like April and May. And you have like June to September where you could drive it like fairly comfortable weather. Yeah, it's either too hot or too cold most of the time, right?

But I used to have all the gear. I kind of sold it all because it's just too much work. But I used to have rain gear. I used to have heated gloves, heated boots, like the jacket. Like I would ride until it was about 40 degrees outside. And it just turns into too much. It's like, is it really worth all this work so I can get on this thing? it's like getting the fucking car and turn the heater on.

Like be comfortable, man. You know, but I'll still do a couple rides a year like, you know, with some charity groups and stuff and just go hang out and, you know, you got to put on the gear and stuff. But like I said, 90% of the time, 99% of the time. So you're too hot or too cold because, you know, in the summertime, it seems like it's a great time to ride, but it's so goddamn hot.

It's like, now it's not enjoyable then because, you know, when you stop, you're sitting out in the sun, You're getting windburn, sunburn. And yeah, you need to be in like Hawaii or something for that shit. That's true. That's totally true. So obviously we were in a bit of a down period of MMA right now. Last weekend, there wasn't any big fights.

This weekend we got a UFC event. But what is actually happening is tomorrow is the start of the Ultimate Fighter season 31. Connor McGregor and Michael Chandler are going to be coaching on the show. And I thought it'd be a good time. We've done this podcast for so long. We rarely ever talk about the Ultimate Fighter because I don't know a lot of people talk about the ultimate fighter anymore, Matt, let's be honest about it. But you, you actually served on a day when people did care about the ultimate fighter,

which was how you got your start in the UFC. Do you say, I know you don't, but like I assume you don't like tune in. Like, oh man, I got to watch the new ultimate fighter. I have not watched an ultimate fighter season since I left Fox when I was like their ultimate fighter guy. So I would like fly out and do all the fighter interviews and everything. And since I left there, I've not watched a single episode of the ultimate fight. I've not watched a single second of the ultimate fighter.

I'm not sure I have either since my own season. I never really watched it that much, but maybe the first couple of seasons, right? Because, like, you know, it was fresh and new. But, man, 31 seasons, huh? That's crazy. And I was on season eight. Like, that's just crazy to put together in my head, man.

Yeah, it is wild when you think about, like, and that's, and don't forget, like, they took off time. Like, this one didn't, like, they've taken off, like, between Fox and the ESPN, everything. Like, they took off, like, a year and a half here and there. So, like, this isn't, like, 31 seasons and a year. row. Like, they've actually taken time off. So it's kind of crazy that they are at third. Now, granted, they've done multiple seasons in a year before. So obviously, it's not like 31 years.

But, yeah, it is kind of crazy to think they're at Ultimate Fighter 31. And, you know, everyone's, like, everyone's all buzzing. It's Connor and his con. I'm like, yeah, but, you know, I just, I don't know, man. Like, I just, like, it was, the Ultimate Fighter was fun for about 10 seasons. And we got up to, like, when they had that season with Kimbo and Roy Nelson and all of them, Like, that was fun. That's, I think that's kind of like the last time that, like, I really care. Like, truly cared. Like, when they did the women's season to crown the straw weight champion, that was okay.

But, like, I just, I don't know, man, the ultimate fighter, it feels like, you know, they just, like, the concept died after, like, 10 seasons to me. Like, it just kind of got stale and old. And, you know, at that point, you just kind of expect, you know what's coming. People are going to pull stupid pranks and someone's going to get into a drunk and get into a fight at the house. And then, you know, there's going to be a couple of fights and somebody's going to get in the UFC. And the other thing is, like, remember back in C's, you know,

season one, they made a huge deal about you win the ultimate fighter, you get this six-figure contract, and you join the UFC roster. And so everyone was watching Diego and Kenny Florian and Forrest Griffin and Stefan Bonner. And like, man, this is a huge deal. And then, like, everybody from the show got signed. So it's not like no, like everyone, Caitlin. So like the whole point of the show, like, when you get to the UFC if you win, and then, like, of the 16 fighters, like 13 of them got into UFC. So it's like, well. And the other point of the show was, like, to build the.

the personalities, right? And show, you know, that these guys are real people and, right? Kind of, I don't know, how would you say that? Right, that's kind of what they were doing, right? They wanted to show the personalities and, you know, market these guys to, before they kind of got in the UFC. And then it kind of turned into like there's so many guys, you know, so many seasons and everything.

And I think people kind of don't really care so much about the actual fighters. And, you know, they're not showing the training. They're showing the behind the scenes. scenes, you know, getting drunk and playing pranks, all that stuff. So everybody kind of starts not caring about that. And then it became about the coaches fighting each other. Yeah. And the drama, you know, between the coaches, especially like with Connor coming in,

against, you know, I think it was Uriah Favor was coaching against them out one season, right? Like that was kind of, they changed the whole model, I think, is what it felt like to me. And like, I don't, I'm not going to watch a show just to watch two guys bicker. Like they're not fighting. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And they're not showing the training. So I get why people would watch it.

You know, I'm not dissing anyone that would watch it, but it's definitely not my thing either at all. Yeah. What was it? Because it's changed over the years. Like when you were on the show, was it like a tryout? Is that how you got on? Or was it just like you submitted a tape or how did you? Because I don't remember like, because now they hold tryouts.

Like they actually have people come out and they do a big room of, you know, 100 people and they whittle it down. And you go through like a casting process. I don't know what was it like, because you were in, like, again, you were in one of the earlier seasons. Like, what was it? How did you get on the show? Yeah, so we had a tryout. So I was living in New York City at the time, and they had the tryouts over in Newark. So I just took the day off work, went over to the tryouts. I didn't even really know what to expect, but showed up with some gear and stuff. So they had us grapple.

I think it was just like randomly chosen people. There were something like 300 people there. You had tons of people I knew and everything. They had us grapple with someone for like two minutes or maybe even like 30. seconds or something, basically just to show like, okay, you know what you're doing. Then they had had to sit pads with someone, like they had a couple coaches that were just there just to hold pads. You know, and again, that whole part was just to kind of show that you're not a complete

idiot and, you know, you can move on, right? And then they did. So they whittled out a bunch of people on that. And then we did the interviews, like the basic interviews, you know, and data was there. And then the way that process. worked was they would contact you a few weeks later or whatever and I was absolutely blown away that I got contacted a few weeks later. I had no idea that, you know, this was an actual possibility for me. They bring out to Vegas and then they do an interview with the producer, Craig Pilligant.

And that interview was actually pretty interesting. So what he does is they kind of like trying to get under your skin and see what you know, what kind of temperament you have and, you know, what you're going to, how you're going to respond to everything. And he was kind of messing with me. And he was like, he's like, you look like the kind of guy that's going to, you know, leave because you're a girlfriend or something. And what I told him was, I said, look, I have a girlfriend. And what I'm going to tell you right now is if you get me on this show, you can have her. You can have sex with her, do whatever you want with her. And he told me that was a line that got me on the show, actually.

Really? Yeah, he said that was the one. He was like, dude, you're a real motherfucker. I like you. So anyway, so yeah, they do that whole process. And then we go back to Vegas, I think, you know, another four or five weeks later, do all the drug testing, medical testing. And each step of the process, there's more and more people getting widowed away.

So in my season, we had the, it was the first season where there was 32 people brought out, right? And they kind of surprised this, so to speak. They didn't totally surprise this because they kept saying, you better be on weight when you get here. So we kind of had the idea was like, okay, we're probably fighting, like, right away. But anyway, so, yeah, you know, we had to fight that day to get on the show. And that was the final step of the process. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I kind of miss that.

Like, they don't do it. They did. I know they've done it a few times, but, like, they stopped having it where you have to, like, fight your way on the show. Because I think sometimes they want to get, like, because you whittle away some of the personalities, the guys that they're going to, you know, call shit in the house. Then they get, they lose. And you're like, well, shit, we can't put that guy in the house anymore. So they had to get away with that. But I enjoyed the seasons.

I enjoyed the seasons where you had to, like, fight your way in. Like, it's a fight competition. Like, you've got to fight your way into the show. Yeah, it's kind of a cool idea. But at the same time, I mean, you know, they can kind of manipulate those matchups a little bit too, right? And sometimes guys that are really good and, you know, maybe they had a bad day or, you know, got a bad matchup or something, you know.

I think there's a lot of aspects to that. And, you know, you don't want to get rid of guys that could have had a lot of potential, but, you know, just couldn't win that fight for whatever reason. Yeah, dude, it's so funny. like obviously you got a family now and stuff and like you're a much different person from where you were back at the all because I remember obviously we talked like right like I think right after that season started we used to do podcast interviews or what it was called radio show interviews in those days but like dude the no the dude I know now is Matt

Brown like it's so funny like you would you would I have a feeling you would despise that entire experience now like I can't picture you knowing you as well as I do now I can't picture you doing that like voluntarily like now granted that was a lot different time in your life you're a lot younger you didn't have kids things like this so i understand all that but like knowing you now i didn't know you as well back then knowing you now i'm like dude they're like that would be like that would be like my nightmare being like in a situation like that there's pros and cons i tell you that so the fact that you get locked away and only have to train get all your food fed to you get a place to sleep and that's fucking great man i love that

the fact that you have to live with 16 other dudes or, well, 15 other guys and train with them and deal with them at nighttime and morning time. Like, that's not cool. Yeah, I would definitely not handle that as well as I did back in the day. Yeah, dude, you've done so much in your career. And I always mentioned, you know, obviously tied for the all-time record of KOs in the UFC, tons of fight performance bonuses, tons of memorable fights. But every now, like, never fails.

Someone will inevitably bring up the Jeremy May situation with you. Like, that will never go away. Like, you, and that, now that is the power of the old ultimate fighter. I feel like that's gone away now because people just don't watch it as much anymore. Like, it used to feel like appointment viewing. If you were a UFC fan, you had to watch the ultimate fighter. And, dude, there's not, I'm not kidding. I know you probably see it more than I do, obviously.

but like at some point someone will inevitably bring up to Jeremy May thing and putting lemon juice in your dip and it's so funny it's been so many years since then you've accomplished so much since then but that is the power of that show that like people will still bring that up to this day no that's exactly right and a little bit of backstory on that so there was a lot more to that than what they showed on the screen right because they edit the hell out of everything what they didn't show was at first that was like maybe a week and a half into the show. So like someone messing with me straight away a week and a half in, I'm like, bro, like, I'm not going to be the sheep up with all these fucking wolves. You know what I mean?

I think that was probably like the first prank that was done, you know, and Jeremy May was that guy trying to make his name being a prankster, not trying to, you know, go in there and be the champion of the show or anything. Like that's kind of his forte, right? He's trying to get on camera by doing pranks, right? So he picked me first. and I'd already had a little bit of interaction with him, and he kind of rubbed me the wrong way already. So I already kind of tried to avoid him a little bit. And then our team was fighting, like, the day that that happened,

or the day before or the day after, I mean, I'm sorry. And if we win, like, we get to pick the next one. So me and Forrest had already talked, and I was going to pick Jeremy May to fight. So he's already on my rate. are. And we had a really good chance of winning that fight. You know, so, you know, we had a good matchup and I was pretty confident we were going to fight. So I'm already confident I'm going to be fighting this guy in like four days. So he's already, you know, on my mindset. And then he played

the price. So he just picked the wrong time. You know what I mean? And, and I'm like, yeah. So there's, like I said, there's always like a little bit more behind the scenes than what they show on the camera because they just edited it to make it look like you know you have no idea what the timeline is there um and the other part of that too is after i got off the show like you said every one of my friends put lemon juice in my dip like we were but it didn't piss me off at all right like i'm joking around with them you know i'll like throw the dip out whatever you know and you know when your friend does it it's one thing when it's a guy you're living within a house that you have to fight in a few days it's a completely different thing

so anyway yeah that was about it man it was just he's just a douchebag anyway so he just brought me the wrong way and yeah I think he just that's about it man so you were you were already

thinking about fighting him before he even did the dip thing exactly yeah yeah yeah like I said well before your friends does it you know it's just a funny thing right fortunately I've quit dipping since then So, thank God, you know, teeth are staying clean and they can't kiss more girls or whatever now. So it's like, you know, it's much better.

Yeah. It's so funny, though, because like that, like I said, that still gets brought up to this day. Like, without fail, it still gets really. And when you do like, you do like generic interviews sometimes with like the big media outlets, you know what I mean? Like, like, you know, whatever. Like, sometimes when you do, like, media rounds, I know they still bring it up. I see it. I see that ask the question.

Like they never, it never fails. they still bring it up. And it's, but like I said, we were just talking before the, before we started recording about Sonic Temple this weekend. There's people that walk out to, hey, dude,

you got that dip with the limb juice? Yeah, there's all the drunk people at this concert festival. And it's like, it's like, yeah, bro, real funny. I never heard that one before.

Yeah. Now, you've had, you've had a lot of knockouts, a lot of wins over your career. And I know they're all, you know, every win is special in some way,

right? Like, you know, no matter what's going on. does that one rank? I don't know you rank your knockouts, but is that one of the more satisfying was just the fact that you got to go out there

and beat that dude because like that is, like I said, like he was already kind of annoying but like, because that's, you're in closer proximity. Like we,

I joked, when you booked the fight with Court McGee, I joked because court, you said this too. Like court's a nice guy. Like court's a super nice guy. And I joke, I was like,

oh, we should get him on the podcast. You're like, well, let's not go that far. Like, I don't want to interact with the fucking guy before we fight. But like, that's typically it,

right like you don't you're not hanging out with your opponent you know two days before you fight him like you're literally living next to this dude you know like not that you guys are roommates but you guys are like living on top of each other you got to see him like all that time like i got imagine it's a little more satisfying to fucking get rid of that dude that it was definitely satisfying i don't know if i would say it was my most satisfying because it it wasn't like a tough fight really like i knew he wasn't that great of a fighter i knew that i was probably going to do that to him i knew he didn't have a great gas tank. So in that sense, it wasn't quite a satisfying. If I didn't do that to him, yeah, that would be a huge letdown. You know what I mean? Like he pretty much, it was either

that or nothing, right? So I wouldn't say it was the most satisfying. Um, now, that, to add to that, though, that fight being that he did that and, you know, well, you remember the fight. Like I, you know, Forrest Griffin yelling, screaming in the corner at the top of his long was like, let out there and blah. Dude, I got more nervous for that fight than I'd probably been. I don't remember how long. Like, and it showed through in the fight. Like, I did not perform well at all in the fight because all of a sudden,

now I got this pressure of, you know, this dude's been fucking with me. And of course, you know, every fight on the ultimate fighter is a huge pressure fight. You know, it could be your last one every time. Then you're out of the fucking house or whatever. And that sucks. And, you know, he was a douchebag. And I'm better than him. Like, you're always more nervous.

when you're supposed to win, right? So, all those things added up, and in that sense, it was satisfying that I still was able to get it done, even though I had way too much unnecessary pressure on myself. Yeah. Whatever happened to Jeremy May? Did he still fight? I don't know what happened. I know he went up to heavyweight.

I seen him on a bus one time at a UFC. I'm not sure what he was doing there. I don't remember. But, you know, we said hi or whatever. You know, we were kind of cordial and, you know, let bygones be. bygones, whatever, but I know he was heavyweight. Like, I didn't even recognize him at first. He was gigantic.

Jeez. Do you, like, it's so funny. Like, I remember bits and pieces of your season. Like, I think I remember bits and piece of all the seasons. Do you still talk to anyone for your season? Oh, yeah, man. Jesse, Jesse Taylor. Yeah, I know you and Jesse were buddies.

That's right. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, I love JT, man. You know, he's a, he's a fucking cartoon character through and through. But he's a really good guy. and a very talented fighter. I kind of vaguely keep in touch with Tim Crater. Like we talk on Instagram every now and then.

I love that dude. He's a great guy. Matt Riddle, I kept in touch with for a long time. Now he's kind of blown up on the WWE circuit. So he's pretty busy, but I haven't talked to him in a while. But like his ex-wife and my ex-wife kind of were friends when we were both still married. So, yeah. So, yeah, I've kept in touch with those guys.

Dante Rivera, I've kept in vague touch with. I know he's got some fighters coming out of his gym. I actually, I think one of my guys either, I don't know if they ever took the fight or not, but he was supposed to fight one of Dante's guys. So we've potentially been cornering up against each other. I think the fight fell through or something happened, but that was up at the, up in CFFC,

or Philly. I forget which one. But so I think I sent him a message like, hey, bro, I'm on corner with you. What's up? You know, stuff like that. Who else? I think me and Amir actually kept in contact for a long time. We trained together for a long time and then he kind of just fell off the face of the planet all together. Like just kind of, he's doing a completely different job from last I heard.

Doesn't go into the gym at all. It doesn't train at all or anything. But we kept in touch for a long time, trained together for a long, for a lot. And that's all I can think of off top of my head. Amir Sadal has got to be one of the weirdest ultimate fighter things ever because the dude came in with, was he had like one fight or two fights on his record or something crazy like that he goes all the way to win the show and then like

he was just he had such a weird career right like he went in and like he looked good but then he was just so an experience you know I mean like he just had no experience and then I think I remember he left the UFC and I don't remember like I don't have he ever fought again like I don't have to look at his record but like he just like he just like like he just kind of like disappeared yeah I think it was after he lost to Duane Ludwig and he might have fought after that but

I know he lost to Duane and just kind of a complete disappeared, man, just completely fell off the mat. And like you said, he was a huge underdog coming in. Like every single fight, he was the underdog. And ended up losing two who was probably the favorite to win the whole thing, which was CB Dalloway. And I keep in touch with CB a little bit. I actually went out to his gym.

God, I forget the freaking name of Power in May. Went out there a few years ago and was talking about moving out there and training with them. And, yeah, man, Amir was definitely like one of the most talented guys. And he showed it on the show, you know, and he was very underrated. But, you know, he just didn't have that fighter mentality in him. You know what I mean? He just, he didn't.

He was a warrior at heart. But, you know, in terms of like going to the gym every day and busting, you know, heads and grinding through it all, he just, I don't think he really enjoyed that process. You know, even though he did it and he went through it, I don't think he enjoyed it or got a lot of fulfillment out of it. So I think he's more of just like an artistic type or something. something. Yeah. And yeah, I wonder what he's doing now. Like, he's off the grids. I don't know. I assume he's just got a regular 9 to 5 job. There's certainly nothing wrong with that, obviously. But I wonder what ever happened to. Because I used to talk to him back in the daily. We did

interviews and stuff. He's an incredibly nice guy. And, you know, he was super talented. Like, he was a super talented dude, but he just didn't have a lot of experience. And you kind of saw that, like, as he got into more fights to the UFC, like he just, you know, again, you were going to run into more roadblocks. And it felt like he just was, he was progressing a little slower, you know, at such a kind of like a young fighter age. and, you know, kind of a bum, but yeah, I don't know whatever happened to him. Like I said, we used to talk, and I think once he left the UFC, like, he just

kind of like, faded into... Yeah, like he's working some sort of 9 to 5. I forget exactly what it is he's doing, like engineering or art or some architecture or some shit like that, but that's exactly right. But he had tons of talent. And when he, I think when he won the ultimate fighter, like he beat, you know, really good guys and really bad matchups for him.

Gerald Harris and C.B. Dollyway. And, you know, he was just beating these guys. I think when he got off the show, they were like, dude, this guy's sky is the limit. You know, he's beating these guys that are far more experience, far better wrestlers, far better fighters than him. And he's just walking right through him. And, you know, I think kind of the truth just kind of came out over time, right? Like, you know, he got exposed for his inexperience.

And, you know, I think he just kind of wasn't willing to really take that road to catch back up, you know? Yeah. It's funny because I mentioned like nowadays, like when guys are. girls win the Ultimate Fighter. Like, we just don't really remember them. Like, the last two winners, like, and the reason I know they won is because I interviewed both, but like, Muhammad Usman won.

He was Camaro's brother. He won. And he fought in, like, a prelim of some, like, random card. And then Juliana Miller fought over in the London card. And she was like, the opening fight of the night. Dude, you remember, like, when your season was around, like, when you were in ultimate fighter, like, you got, you got good placement on cards. Like, they were, it was a big deal to come out of that show.

And they kind of, like, it made a bit of a star. you like I think I'd imagine you don't regret doing it because I really launched your career but it's different nowadays like dude I couldn't like I couldn't tell you anyone off these last like 10 seasons and it's not I'm not saying watching the show I'm just saying like watching them go into the UFC they always get mentioned as an ultimate fighter winner or whatever dude I couldn't like I have no idea like it doesn't like the show doesn't do for you now what it did back in your day like because everybody you mentioned went on to do something pretty much you know what I mean they went on to do something

something in their career. These days, it just seems like, and even the winners, like, you don't even know who they are anymore. Like, I don't even, I couldn't even begin to tell you. You said, hey, Ultimate Fighter 27, who won? I'm like, I have no fucking clue. Like, I have no idea who it was. Like, I've never even heard the name Juliana Miller before. So, but like I said, I guess she won the Ultimate Fighter, but like you said, don't watch it anymore. She said, it doesn't bring that same interest. And I know they're trying to bring it back and bring that interest with Connor McGregor fighting Michael Chandler. And you look, I might watch a couple episodes or something because that might be interested. But also the other part

of that, too, is I don't watch TV episodes of anything. I can't think of a single show. Like, if a show, you know, say like Yellowstone, which I haven't watched, but, you know, take that for instance, like everybody's going to tell you it's great and then you can go back and watch it. Right. Why would you watch anything live now and take that risk when, you know, there's a million other things to watch? So I think that's what kind of makes it difficult too. Like, I don't know who watching. his live TV anymore. Yeah. I'm sure that I'm sure there's a group of people, you know, maybe, uh, you know,

60 year old people or something, you know, watch live TV. But like, I don't know what the point of even watching live TV is these days. Yeah, I love, obviously I love mixed martial arts. Like, I absolutely love the sport. I follow the sport. I study the sport. You know, I like to watch tape and things like that. But dude, I just have no interest in watching a fight reality show.

Like it just doesn't like it was, it was special back in the day. Like when, you're like I said up to about season 10 when they got Kimbo on there that was kind of cool like oh Kimbo's gonna be on there but like after that it just kind of like they all blended together and one season was the next like even when they got like good coaches it just didn't really like you know interest me all that much the the fact that there's so many notable promotions these days too so like if you're just going to watch the ultimate fighter to see the fights right I mean I don't think any of this ever been into the drama

part like I don't watch any reality show I never have in my life to watch the drama but I would occasionally watch it for a fight, right? Just because it's like, you know, it's on like a Wednesday night. Oh, there's a fucking fight on. But bro, like I can watch LFA. I watch CFFC. I can watch Bellator, Pride, or not Pride, Verizon or, you know, there's a million fights or one FC, right?

There's a million fights every weekend now. Right? Almost like I have a channel on my TV that's literally fights 24-7. So, like, if I don't know who the fighters are, and I got the option between, you know, some reality show to watch a fight, and I have to watch all this drama to finally get to a fight versus I could literally just flip on a channel or go on YouTube or whatever and watch a fight, of course, like, why wouldn't you choose that, right? Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Like, you got into the good time. You got it at the right time to do the ultimate fighter. And like you said, it still follows you in a good way.

Like, people remember you from that show. So people still remember your season. They remember the stupid prank things like that. But it's just not the same anymore. And I think that's like anything. I mean, when you do it 31 times, dude, it's going to lose how special it is.

Like, remember, remember I never, watched the show. I'm not stating that like I'm embarrassed. Like, I've never watched the show. But like, you remember when Survivor first started,

dude, it was fucking everywhere. Like, you could not, like, it was like part of pop culture. I think everyone talked about it. And I think it's still going on. I think there's like a season 100 or whatever. And I haven't heard anyone talk about that show

in like fucking 10 years. But I remember when it started, everyone talked about it. It was like this big, huge deal. And now, like, it's been going on forever. And, like, it's just, you know, like, no one. And that's kind of what the ultimate fighter is to me now. Like, I get it. I'm glad guys still getting the UFC from it and, you know, whatever.

But, like, they're trying to revive it with, like, getting Connor on there. I'm just like, dude. I like Connor. Connor's entertaining. Connor's a super entertaining dude. And he's going to say something crazy. And him and Chandler are probably going to get in some kind of weird fight. But I just don't care, man.

Like, I'll watch the clip on Twitter or something. Like I have no desire to tune in. Like you said, 10 o'clock on a fucking Wednesday night or Tuesday night, whatever it is to watch. Like it just, no, you show me a highlight. Well, that's the other thing too is we can not watch, but we can let some nerd in his basement watch and record it and edit out the fun stuff and post it on social media so he can get the likes

and we don't have to do any of the work and we get to see the only parts worth seeing. Yeah. Like I remember when Yari Haul knocked out that dude with the spinning back kick. Everyone talked about that. I was like, I saw the highlight. I only didn't see the rest of the episode. I saw the highlight. Exactly.

Yeah. That's exactly. Yeah. I let the nerds in the basement do their work so that I can stay on my grind and stay out of the basement. You know it would have been cool though. And I know it's like I'm saying this kind of like sadly because obviously it sounds like when he fights a July he's going to retire. Robbie Loller. Does it have been cool you and Robbie to be coaches on the show?

Like that would have been kind of cool. Like not go back and like actually be on the show, but like you and Robbie being coaches. Like that to me would be far more interesting than like some of the stupid rivalries they try to build up and just get crazy shit. Like I think it would be fun. Like two veterans like you and Robbie. Like that would have been cool. Like that would have been a season I would actually been interested in. Connor, I know what I mean.

It's not that I have a problem with Connor. It's not that's just I know what it's going to be. It's going to be fucking stupid, you know, pranks and, you know, he's going to get pissed off and, you know, I'm here to rule the world. Whatever. It's just, you know, I know what to expect. Like, it'd be cool. Like, or, you know, like I said, like, I think it would be fun. Like if they would have done like when Shogun, like they did talk about Shogun having one last fight.

And I know Machita had said like he would come back and fight Shogun. Like Shogun Machita, let them be coaches for a season. Like that'd be fun. Like that'd be something kind of cool and different. Dude, I think that's a really cool idea, man. And I think, you know, a lot of the more hardcore fans would get into something like that where it's like, you know, let's get too authentic real guys on there. Like, you know, like you know, Connor's going to play it up, right? Like he, you know, Chandler's going to play right into it.

He's going to love it too, right? he loves that shit. You know, so, you know, Connor's going to, you know, he's, we already seen. He pushes them. You know, it's like, oh, wow, real shocker there. He's going to, you know, and like I said, we can go, we'll go on the internet, we'll go on social media, we'll see the clips of the hilarious shit that they say. But I'm not going to, you know, set my clock so that I show up at seven o'clock at night

on a Wednesday or Thursday or whatever it is so that I can be in front of the TV to hear what he says now. I'll scroll through social media for five minutes and see. everything. Yeah, absolutely. Real quick. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea.

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Over the weekend, did you see the big boxing match that got made? I did not. Terrence Crawford and Errol Spence, official. Oh, yes, I did see that. Okay.

Finally happening. It's finally freaking happening. Yes, that's an amazing match right there, man. You're talking about like a throwback to the 80s, man, with like Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hitman Hurons, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, these are two of the best of the best and the best points of their career.

The only question is about, you know, Aero Spence, right? Because he had the accident and everything. So him coming back. But I think he's going to be perfectly fine. I don't think it's going to be a problem. Are you a Crawford or a Spence guy? I'm not even picking the fight, but like, Debbie, I assume you follow

one more than the other. Like, I, you know me, I'm not as much of a boxing fan as you are, but I kind of, I knew, I knew somebody had introduced me when he first started with Errol Spence. They're like, hey, you got to watch this kid, Errol Spence. And then, like, a guy I know who does management, he started working with him on sponsorships.

And so I started paying more attention to his course. I've kind of followed Errol Spence's entire career. So I'm kind of a little bit, like, you know, I'm kind of an Errol Spence fan. Nothing against Terrence Crawford, obviously, he's an incredible fighter. but I've kind of followed him so like I'm leaning like I kind of hope Arrow pulls it off although I think honestly I'd probably lean towards

Terrence Crawford winning I think you know but I don't know it's weird like they pulled it off I was wonder if they're going to do it before these guys start getting to a point where we're getting diminishing returns like I feel like we honestly feel like we got Floyd and Pachial like two years too late you know like I mean like we happened like a couple years before that we've been better like I'm still glad we got to see it and you know it was iconic whatever but like I wish we got to see like two years before it happened. And like this one was teetering on that where I'm like, dude,

this needed to happen like a year ago, year and a half ago or, you know, whatever, but at least we're going to get to see it. Yeah, I could agree more. And I guess if I would have a leaning towards one of the other in terms of guys that I followed and it's definitely been like more Crawford. I think he's just had the more

high profile fights. He's just kind of been out there in the news and media and stuff a lot more. And he actually came when I was coaching the Ultimate Fighter with TJ. He came to the show one day and hung out. I don't think he did any teaching or anything, but just kind of hung out. I think like TJ's friends with them or their management or something to set it up or whatever. But, you know, very, very cool guy. Yeah, so I'm very interested to see this fight. I think it's just an amazing

matchup, probably the best matchup, high profile matchup in boxing since Mayweather Packia out, like you said. You know, I wish that would have happened two years earlier. Also, maybe five years earlier here. I'm not sure if the actual outcome would have been a differ or not, but that's all We'll never know. But, yeah, I mean, I lean probably slightly towards Crawford personally when I think about the picks without, you know, breaking it down and studying too much only because of Crawford's like versatility. And like he's just shown a way to pick up kind of what you're doing and throughout a fight

and do like gets better as the fight goes on and kind of learns your habits and stuff as the fight goes on. And, but, you know, I do think Arrow is. going to be quicker and I think Arrow's going to probably have a better pop than Crawford. So it's definitely going to be a freaking interesting match, man. I'm glad. I always love when we see fights that are made when these guys are actually in the same weight class, like one guy's not going up or going down and it's a big fight. Like right now where we're at with like we saw Giovante Davis and Ryan Garcia and we

saw obviously Devin Haney and Lo Machinko and we got Shakur Stevenson out there. Like they all obviously we know Ryan Garcia is going up and things like that. but they're all, like, as of the time they're fighting, they were all in the same weight class. Like, it's kind of fun knowing Crawford and Spence. Same weight, same, you know, they're the same, you know, at level. One guy's not going up 10 pounds or going down 10 pounds or, you know, it's all even playing field. And it's a rare thing. While that's happening, I'm sure you've also seen Matt in the world of boxing, like Tyson Fury looks like like, like the Ustick fight's not happening.

Ussick's going to fight. Daniel Dubois, I guess is what's going to happen. Now they're trying to do, now it looks like it's going to be Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua. Like, dude, like, it's like, I was, I was actually, like, I was legitimately excited for Fury and Usik. Like, that was a really interesting matchup for me. And now it's not how, I'm not saying it can't happen, but it's like, man, this is where, this is where boxing loses me a little bit. Like, when we miss out on this, because it's like, it was so, it was right there. It was right there.

And they're not going to make it. Yeah, it sucks to hear. But, you know, in real reality, Fury Joshua is the money fight, right? And over in the UK, that sells, I mean, Joshua could fight. anybody and sell 90,000 tickets, right? Like that's a, this is a huge, huge money fight. So I get why they're doing it and why it's kind of working out the way it's working out.

But, man, I'm with you, bro. I want to see Uc Ferry. I want to see how this actually goes down. I think Ucic has a better chance than people are giving them credit for. Well, I'm not even sure people are not giving them credit. You know, like he has a legit chance of winning that fight. And I think he's the only real threat to Fury. So, you know, it sucks to see them not fighting.

I think, I think Fury is going to style on Joshua. I think that's not even going to be a close fight. Like, John, did you see Joshua's last fight? He looked awful. He looked, he did not look good enough fight. Like, he had some things he did better than he had done before. Like, he just, I think he put a lot more emphasis on his jab, you know, and I think that was kind of why he probably looked a little less because he wasn't like, you know,

kind of brawling as much. And he had a good looking jab. I thought he did very well in that, in that sense. but it was a you have to keep in mind that was also a fight meant for him to win right it was yeah yeah that's why and maybe maybe i'm grading him on that scale because he was supposed to win he just he didn't look like you know like that's a dude like i feel like anthony joshua should have dispatched that guy and it was just kind of like okay yeah he won but you know like it wasn't anything like memorable i'm like dude like because i listen i'm guilty as everyone like when he

came out like man this is going to be the guy like it's going to be him in fury and it's going to be epic, you know, clash two great British boxers. And then obviously, you know, he lost. And, you know, and he just, I don't know. It's just, I don't know if he's ever going to quite develop to the guy that maybe we all thought he would be. I think Fury is going to style on him, though.

I just don't, you know, it'll be a big fight. Of course, I'll watch. But, yeah, I just like I said, Usick and then you got Deontu Wilder out there. But yeah, just like, man, it's like, I wanted to see Usik and Fury. That was the one. Yeah, same here. And I, yeah, I'm with you. I think Joshua has reached his peak.

You know, I don't think he's going to beat the, these, you know, top two, three guys. I wouldn't mind seeing Joshua and Usick. I think that would be a great fight also. But, you know, like, I'm with you, man. Like, Fury is going to make him look pretty bad. You know what I mean? It'll probably be Joshua's last fight if you ask me.

I think he'd get that payday and, you know, be done with it. Yeah. So now right now, it looks like most of the heavyweight guys, Deonté Wilder's still out there, but we don't know for sure. Because I know Deonté Wilder was circling that Anthony Joshua fight as well. and maybe this works out for the better of my next question real quick is Francis Ngano seems to be like the odd man out now because he was betting big on doing a big boxing match

and I know he said maybe he'll do like a warm-up boxing match like an early boxing match and then do like the big one but I don't know it feels like people have kind of like there was genuine interest even though it would have been a mismatch and we know it would have been a mismatch there was genuine interest for a little while about about Inganu fighting Fury even though again we know Fury would have been a massive favorite. for it and he would have won. I mean, it's, you know, Mayweather, McGregor all over again. But there was interest.

Like, when he was champ and riding on, after he knocked out Steepa, he was riding high and all that kind of stuff. Am I wrong? I think it's just kind of gone away a little bit, though. Like, it just feels like, because like Joshua said, like, it's a gimmick fight. He's not into it. I know, no, Wilder said he would be into it.

I don't know, maybe Wilder's like, I can get a big payday. I don't know, man. Like, it just feels like, I don't know. Did Francis kind of miss the boat a little bit in the boxing thing? Like, it doesn't seem like the interest is as much there as it was. I don't know, maybe there are negotiations with Wilder because I haven't heard nothing about Wilder either. Yeah, I know Wilder was talking about

doing the fight with Joshua, and now it looks like Fury wants to do the fight with Joshua. So I guess it's like the Joshua sweepstakes there. Yeah, there's that. And, you know, the thing with Fury is like, I get the feeling he's probably not the easiest guy to do business with his team, right? Like he kind of just flies by a seat of his pants.

I mean, he's the gypsy. King, right? He's a fucking gypsy. He's like, he just makes shit up as he goes along. So getting fights done with him and he's the A side now. He's in control of everything. So I think that makes it kind of interesting with the negotiations and everything. But I'm, yeah, I want to see Agano get in there, man. If he's going to do it, like, let's see it. And Wilder's the one we want to see, right, two of the biggest punchers in fucking sports. Let's go. Let's see. I said that when everyone was talking about the Fury fight, I said from the very beginning Wilder is the fight. Like that was the fight for Francis because, listen, I still

think Deonté Wilder wins. I mean, I just, you know, I just think, you know, even though Deonté Wilder's not the most skilled heavyweight in the world, he's still a guy who's got 40 whatever heavyweight fights. He's fought Tyson Fury. Like, you know, he's been in there with the best guys in the world. But just that nuclear power against nuclear power. And like, again, the fight may last like one round, two rounds maybe, but it's going to be fun for that one or two rounds, just watching those freaking massive dudes swing at each other. And it might work out that way now.

Wilder seems like he's kind of the odd man out right now, Ussick fighting Dubois, and it looks like Joshua and Fury, maybe Wilder does get that fight with Ngano. And like I said, that's the one. That was always the one, because at least like, again, I still don't think Ngano wins. It's nothing against Francis, but I mean, you know, again, we can't disrespect boxing

enough to say that Francis can come under day one and legitimately beat. But, he's got a shmaw he's got a shot maybe a small shot but he's got a shot against Wilder I don't know that I don't know I don't know that he would have that shot I know he wouldn't have that shot against Fury you know Ousig the only plant chance he would have

is he just like just bum brushes him because Ousick's a smaller guy and as much as Joshua hasn't looked great recently you know he ain't beaten Anthony Joshua like that's just not you know boxing versus boxing that's not fair but maybe he can uncork some wild right hand and catch Wilder you never know

well wider was certainly leave himself more open to get hit. That's the one certain that we know. And Wilder's a better boxer that people give him credit for. But he still relies on his athleticism. Francis obviously relies on his athleticism. And like you said, two nuclear bombs coming together. Somebody's getting knocked out.

Or are you going to have two guys in the sixth round putting their hands on their knees, look at each other? It's going to be one or the other, I think. Yeah, I think that's like if you're looking at any big heavyweight, boxing match in the world because you know like I said I mean because heavyweight's not the deepest division but there are other good guys out there but like

there's just there's not going to be interested in fighting like the lower rank guys like it's just no one's really going to care that much to see him fight like I'm trying to think of names right like that's how bad I would like that way dude yeah like they're not no one's going to be like that excited about who is the guy the Fury knocked out for like the fourth time in his last fight who was that he beat was that

Stevern or who was that I don't remember like that no one's going to about you know what I mean like it's got to be one of the big three you know and that's not a knock on usig us is just not a big name but like it's got to be Joshua wilder or fury and fury is the worst I think Joshua would be second but wilder again I'm not saying he wins because I don't think he does but wilder does get a little wild and he does throw big punches and Ingano's got massive power and there's a chance he has a chance and the only thing I might disagree a little bit there is that he probably has a better chance against Joshua, I think, that people give him credit for. I think Joshua is a

10 times better boxer, has the experience, but he's a little chinny. And he does not like, he does not like getting hit. That is his flaw that he's dealt with for a long time. Like, he does not like getting hit. And if Francis actually shows him that power, you know, even touches his gloves hard or something, Joshua might start, you know, cowering down a little bit. And, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't, that probably comes across like I'm putting him down or something. Like, an absolutely amazing fighter and I have most respect for him. But that's certainly the knock on him, right? Is his chin and his ability to take shots.

Yeah, that's, I mean, that's, maybe that's why he's like, maybe he, you know, because not that Fury doesn't have knockout power, Fury absolutely does have knockout power, but Fury is the guy who will kill you death by a thousand cuts and then he'll knock you out. Like, he'll, he'll tag it, tag it, tag it, and then he'll finally hit you with one to put you away. Fury just needs, or, excuse me, Wilder just needs one. He doesn't need two or three. he needs one glancing blow and your heads in the third row. And you wonder, like maybe Joshua's like, yeah, it's probably bigger payday,

a little bit less risk to fight a guy like, like Fury. I mean, I still think Fury wins. It's just a much larger payday overall, right? Yeah. And the risk reward is so much bigger and better for Tyson. But if you were putting. You lose the Tyson. You lost to a great heavy weight.

You lose to Wilder. It's like, okay, you're pretty far. You know, you're down with the regular guys now. Sorry. You know, if he was to somehow beat Tyson, I mean, that's, you know, now you're the guy. Yeah. So you'd rank it. But if all the guys, if you look at the three main heavyweight guys, who and Inganu had the best chance against?

I think it is Wilder just because they're going to throw bombs and it may last a round and a half. And Francis could just as easily end up face first on the canvas because Wilder tags him. That's a, that's a level of power that Inganu has not fought before. I mean, let's be honest. He's never fought a guy with that kind of power anywhere in the UFC. Yeah, well, you know, the tough thing when you make all these calls is like, we've never seen Francis Box. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we know what he could do in May.

But, you know, boxing is a very, very different beast. So, you know, it's hard to say he's got a chance against anybody until we see him box. And he could surprise us or he could, you know, prove us right that he doesn't have a chance against these guys. So it's just, I think it's very, very far up in the air, man. And that's why, you know, even when Connor fought Floyd, I mean, of course, I didn't give him a chance. But I was like, dude, we'd never seen a box. Like, he might pull some shit out that we'd never seen. But I'm not going to bet my money on that.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to bet that he could do something that Pacquiao can't do. I just, like, I think if you're Fran, because I know Francis said, like, maybe doing a warm-up fight. Like, if I'm Francis, dude, don't warm up, dude. Go in there, get the big payday. Like, get Saudi Arabia to plunk down $50 million for you and Wilder or you and John, whoever, it is, and do it first because while yes, you would get some experience, but dude, you may face the number 30 ranked heavyweight who just has way more experience than you, and he just,

you know, he just outjabs you for 12 rounds and you lose. Like, you risk it all in that minute because the reality is there are heavyweight boxers who are just, they're not great, but they're good enough that they could stay away from his power. And imagine how disastrous that would be. If Francis goes out there and fights some guy we never heard of him, and he loses a 12 round or 10-round decision or whatever, and then it all goes away. Dude, get the payday. Go fight Wilder. Go fight Joshua. Make the $50 million.

And yeah, your chances of winning are slim, but at least you're going to get a massive payday and you do, and again, just because all boxing skill aside, with the power he has, he at least has that small chance, he could rock, catch one of those guys. Maybe a one in a million shot, but at least it's a one a million shot. But do you want to risk fighting, you know, some 28-year-old guy who's got, you know, 30 fights on his record and no one knows, but he just has real boxing experience because you and I both know, like, Connor, once we saw him against Floyd, we're like, okay, yeah, it was fun, but Connor's not beating anyone of that, like, you know, and that, you know,

he's just not there. Like, it's just a reality of the situation. Like, you know what I mean? Like, same thing. Like, we talk about Jake Paul. Like, we like to talk about Jake Paul. Yeah, he's not bad. But he's not, he's not going to beat any legit 185 pound boxer.

Right. Yeah, it's so strange. Like, only in boxing does this happen. I don't see anybody, you know, coming out of the May being like, I'm going to go beat Gordon Ryan. It's like, no, you're not. Like, that's what they do. You know, and Boston is the same.

Like, that's what they do? Like, what makes you think you're going to beat them at that? But, yeah, I'm with you, man. He needs to go for the big payday. And, you know, it sounds like he kind of wants to be like a serious professional boxer maybe, all right? If he's talking about doing like a warm-up fight to get to it. And I guess that's kind of a different path.

but like you said, now you're taking a risk. You know, maybe you're not that good. You don't know. Like, you have a fucking box, bro. You weren't in the Olympics. You didn't do an amateur career. We don't, you don't fucking know. And when you don't know, go for the payday.

Yeah, dude, go for a while. Whoever ends up being the odd man out of this whole thing, if they end up doing Wilder and Joshua or they end up doing Fury and Joshua, whoever's the odd man out, go for that fight. That's my advice. Like, go for that fight. Get paid. And again, like you said, I don't think he beats Joshua.

I don't think he beats Fury and I don't think he beats Wilder. But he has at least a puncher's chance against Joshua. He has a puncher's chance against Wilder. I don't really think he has a great chance of doing anything to Fury, if I'm being honest. But at least you've got a chance. Convince people of that. Let Saudi Arabia or somebody plunk down $50, $60 million, get your payday. Take your shot.

You know, take your shot. Because like I said, dude, it's a hard road to get to that legitimately. Like, it's a long road. And France is like 36, too. let's not forget that like he's not a young guy he's not putting together he's not putting together an amateur career and like he's not gonna he's not gonna put together an amateur career and go fight these guys like three or four years from now like strike while the iron's hot yeah that's old in boxing years bro 36 even for heavy weights that's not a you know that's a tough hill to climb right there man

so you know like you said go for the fucking payday man what we doing here yeah fucking around I'll go get the payday, you know, and be done with it. Yeah, and take a shot. You never know. Like I said, you may not win, but at least you took your shot. Like I said, maybe you catch Joshua. Maybe you catch Wilder and shock the fucking world. But, you know, do it and make your money and then, you know, go do your MMA thing.

And Joshua is the one that really, in my opinion, probably makes the most sense. If I'm in God, oh, and I'm chasing boxing, I go for Joshua. It's the lowest risk. Like, he's not a big knockout guy. And like I said, he's probably the most chinny of all the guys. You know, you're going to sell big in the UK. You know, and now you're probably going to sell big in America because it's Francis and God. So worldwide, you got a huge audience that's going to pay for that.

Joshua is a big name with the lowest risk. That's one I go for. Yeah. Yeah, we talk about Wilder. I mean, yeah, it's a big payday, at least in the U.S. I'm not sure how much overseas. I'm sure, you know, people still want to see it and everything. but it's a huge risk.

Like, you know if he hits you, you're getting fucking flatlined. Like, you're going to wake up in the hospital. So, you know, it's a much higher risk. You know, Fury is like, you know, he's going to outbox you and he's going to knock you. I don't think it is. You know, it's the biggest payday, but, you know, it's the least winnable fight. And, yeah, hell, it's the least winnable fight for all heavyweight boxers, period. Yeah.

Yeah. If I'm, you know, an Ussick, you know, is a guy who can make you look really bad, too. you know you can you can certainly land that one but he's going to make you look fucking terrible doing it even if you do get that one you're going to look terrible on your way doing it like he will make you look bad um even if it's a winnable fight which i still don't really think it is but that's what i think joshua is the fight to go for if i'm if i'm francis and gano i think you kind of convinced me i was i was going to the wilder fight just because the you know wilder's not as skilled as a boxer so i thought maybe you know

but now I kind of you're I think I'm on board with you with the Joshua thing now that you mentioned that like he's a little chinny he's not a huge knockout guy he gets a little crazy sometimes and we saw what you know happened in his uh was Ortiz that knocked him out you know like we saw so you know yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna say you've convinced me I think Joshua's the one go for um and you know like I said get your payday and get out and then go do your MMA thing because like I said you know might be the biggest payday too that's true Josh was a star like Joshua's a star like he's a star like he's legitimate. are yeah yeah i didn't even think about that before but he's probably the biggest payday other than fury yeah i mean just you know if i'm his management i'm like dude let's just let's stay away from fury like you know you know let usick or our john let's let these other guys fuck with fury you know like you know maybe you win a couple or something if he goes out and beats joshua then the fury fights gigantic yeah right now you got a fucking worldwide paper view on their hands that everybody wants to see. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. You convinced me. You got me on board. You got me on board.

I was all wilder, but now I think you got me on the Joshua train. And again, you mentioned star power. It's true. It's a star. Much bigger star than anyone else besides Pride Fury. So yeah, that's true. It's a good point. All right. We're going to get out here and try to keep it short today because obviously it's a holiday. We got barbecues and stuff to do. So we want to record a knockout a quick show. We'll be back next week. We're going to talk UFC 289. Benile Darius taken on Charles Olivaira, Amanda Nunes, taken on Arena Aldana.

So we'll break down some fights there and kind of fallout. There is some UFC fights this week and of course, Kai Kar-Franz taking on to Mirabazi out at the Apex. I'm so over Apex shows, but it is an Apex show so that's going on on Saturday. Obviously, I always want to say a big thank you to everyone

the tunes in. Matt, where can people check you out? Where can people support you? You know, man, social media. I am the immortal, Twitter and Instagram. at the Immoral Coffee. You know, we got the best coffee out there that Damon don't fuck with because he's not a coffee guy. So one of these days we're going to change him once he tastes the power of

immortal coffee. But that day is yet to be determined. We will get there though. In the meantime, check it out the immortal coffee, make coffee not excuses. I like it. I like it. All right, folks, we're going to get out of here. Obviously, I want to say a big thank you.

As always, everyone, the tunes in the show. make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast platforms. We'll be back next week with another addition to the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Podcast Network.