MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Makes UFC 295 Picks, Reacts to New Title Fights Including O’Malley vs. Vera

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin previewing the upcoming UFC 295 card including the two title fights at the top of the lineup. Jiri Prochazka will attempt to recapture the belt he never actually lost when he clashes with Alex Pereira in the main event. Prochazka returns after suffering a devastating shoulder injury that kept him out of action for over a year but he anxiously awaits the chance to reclaim that belt. But will Prochazka’s creativity and willingness to put himself in harm’s way help him win at UFC 295 or could that style come back to haunt him, especially while facing a lethal striker like Pereira? We’ll also look ahead at the interim heavyweight title fight as Sergei Pavlovich looks to extend his six-fight winning streak when he takes on Tom Aspinall. Pavlovich hasn’t seen a second round in any of his recent wins while demolishing every opponent he’s faced by knockout but does Aspinall serve as the perfect fighter to counter his devastating power? Plus we react to the news announced by UFC CEO Dana White on Monday with Sean Strickland vs. Dricus du Plessis scheduled at UFC 297, Alexander Volkanovski vs. Ilia Topuria at UFC 298 and Sean O’Malley vs. Marlon “Chito” Vera at UFC 299. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones

you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. Matt, it is the start of a new week. It is UFC 295 Fight Week.

Are you excited? Are you excited for Fight Week? Is it still exciting? You know, always excited for fight week. Well, I don't know. I don't really get excited until the day of the fight, I guess, for the night of the fight. Yeah. Hey, man.

It's a good week, bro. We got the clock set back an hour, got an extra hour asleep. We get huge badass fights this weekend. I guess, you know, we had at least a card to watch last weekend. Sort of. Sort of. We got to watch the classic lay and prey. You know, it's been so long.

since I use that term, and it's so funny you say that. It's been so long since I've used that term in MMA because that just doesn't really happen as much these days. And Giles and Almeida, what he did to Derek Lewis was classic lay and prey. Like, I'm not going to knock him for winning, dude. Like, you get the job done, you won. He absolutely did win the fight. But it was also one of the most bizarre, like, I think I called it, like, the most bizarre

dominant performance ever, because, like, he took him down at will. he moved into mount like nine times and yet he didn't really do much damage and like after the second round he stopped going for submissions it was the weirdest like he was completely dominant but yet he didn't really do a lot with it it was the weirdest performance yeah it was almost like uh you know that when we think of lay and pray we think of like take him down and sit and guard right like he was even able to get to mount like Derek lewis grabbing his wrist stopped him from being able to punch or elbow or anything. Yeah, it was actually bizarre. That's a good way to put it because, but boy, I think we've seen Jalton Almeida is going to be a problem though. Now, whether he's going to be an exciting problem,

whether he puts on the fights to get that where Dana gets excited and says, we're going to put you in there for the title shot or even like a surreal gone fight like he's calling out, which everybody seems to be calling out now because they know they can take him down. I don't know if that's going to happen, but, you know, that guy has a lot, lots, lots. The weirdest thing was, I never heard this, but they said he grew up boxing. Yeah, like, he's no, like, he came in and had that striking background, and obviously, like, he also has the jihitsu background. But, yeah, it's weird. Like, he always seemed like a well-rounded fighter.

Listen, I don't blame you for not wanting to go out there and stand in front of Derek Lewis. Like, I get it. But to me, it was just weird because you keep taking him down and you're not. doing much with it. Like he was just in like it's almost like he didn't want to take chances because he knew Derek could escape and get back to his feet, which he did a couple of times. Credit to Derek for doing it. But like when you're in mounts, like that's supposed to be one of the most dominant

positions you can have on the ground. And yet he wasn't really dropping punches or elbows. Like it was really weird. Right. It's almost like. There's two dominant, a thousand percent dominant positions in a fight. And it's back and mouth. And he had both.

He had both during the head back. Yeah, he had the back for a while too, yeah. It's a weird one. Like I said, like, listen, again, you got to win. That's what matters most. But you and I both know in the UFC's eyes style points count. And I was like, I was like for having that dominant of a position for that long, like you spent, I think they said like 21 minutes in that controlling position and you didn't get a finish. You didn't really do a ton of damage.

I was like, it's weird to say this, but it's almost like his stock dropped with a win. You know what I mean? Like if he had gone out, because Derek Lewis was a replacement. He was supposed to like Curtis Blades. If he had gone out there and done that to Curtis Blades, even though Curtis, you know, obviously coming off the loss to Sergey Pabovich, that would say a lot because Curtis is such an incredible wrestler. I don't know that you could do that to Curtis Blades. But you go out there and do that to Derek Lewis. Okay, still impressive.

But then you haven't mounted for 21 minutes or whatever and you don't get a finish and you don't do it. Like, you know how it works, Matt. Like when you're in mount and you're just raining down punches, unless the guy does. a good job of hipping out, escaping, or rolling, whatever, like, referees will stop the fight. Like, if you're just bludgeting him and he's just laying there covering up, like, it may not be, like, the most emphatic stoppage, but the referee will generally step in.

If you're just laying there, getting punched. You know what I mean? He didn't really do it. So weirdly, like, he won. He got the main event. He beat Derek Lewis. But, like, weirdly, I'm like, man, like, I don't feel like he really raised, I don't feel like he really raised the bar with that fight.

Now, that's a good call. That's one of the interesting things about what the, the, the, the, the, rules, right? Because I've been, I had one fight in particular. They stopped when I wasn't really that hurt. And, you know, when I thought about it later, you know, I was really pissed at the time and I thought about it later and I've seen this apply to other fights, you know, the rule is intelligent defense. It's not necessarily whether you're rocked or not or whether you're hurt. It's whether you're intelligently defending. And, you know, so my point is, you know, I made it, again, don't want to knock the guy at all.

Like, it means, it's amazing what he did, period, right? And he played a perfect strategy to get the win and do what he needs to do. But to your point, like, you don't have to rock them with those punches. Like, just throw punches. Yeah. Like, you're in mouth. Like, he's not getting out. Yeah.

Like, it was clear. Like, he's not getting out of your mouth, right? He didn't have, like, any hip escapes. He didn't have any, you know, push on the knees or the hips or, you know, like, there wasn't any like technique there it was like you know derrick leucer's going to try to stand up with power and he wasn't able to do that so just throw punches but yeah who might to say who are we to say standing outside well it's also like he called out surreal gone afterwards and I'm like you call out siril gone the guy who notoriously has bad grappling you know the guy who got you know taken

down and grounded by francis agonno and then got choked out by john Jones inside of two minutes or whatever it was. I was like, rebook the Curtis Blaze fight, because Curtis Blaze is an incredible wrestler. If you can do that to Curtis Blades, I'll be super impressed. I don't think you can do that to Curtis Blades, so you're going to have to show other facets of your game. Not saying he can't win. He could absolutely win that

fight, but you're probably not going to just win it by taking him down and controlling a guy like Curtis Blaze, who is probably the best wrestler in the heavyweight division. Because in a perfect world, you go out there and you demolish Derek Lewis and you can say, hey, Tom Aspinall, Sergey Papovich, I'm coming. Like, whoever wins this fight, I'm coming, because you know you're not getting John Jones-Stepe, I'm coming for you.

You make that kind of a statement going into this weekend. Everyone's got Gailton al-Made on the mind, said, oh, man, like Sergey and Tom are the guys, but look at this Brazilian monster. Instead, here we are on Monday talking about, you know, he won. He won, but, you know. Yeah, that's a great point because, like you said, it's almost bizarre, like how dominant he was and how little we were impressed, right?

But to your point, look, if he could do that to Derek Lewis, that's, I mean, if he could do that to Curtis Blades, rather, yet that is very impressive. And like, we talk about it all the time. Styles make fights. Like, we know what Derek Lewis is. We know what Jalton I'made is. We know what Curtis Blades is.

Derek's stock almost doesn't drop from that funny, right? Like, nothing really changed other than then we know that that Jalton Almeda can out wrestle Derek Lewis. I mean, yeah, that's really what we learned. And I'm like, all right, well, I probably kind of knew that going into it. So, yeah, it was just a weird. Like I said, it's weird to critique a guy who won like 50, 45 across the board,

but yet, like, coming out of it, I feel like his stock dropped a little bit. Like, because he had a lot of hype going into it where people are saying, man, like the three-horse race for like the best prospect at heavyweight was Pavlovich, Aspinall and Jailton Al-Meda in terms of like the newer guys. And while I still think Jalton-Ale-Made is really good, we're not necessarily putting him in that same conversation as the two guys fight for the title this weekend. Like now Aspinall and Pavlovich really does feel like the true, you know, interim title fight and Jalton still feels like he's at least one fight away.

Like he's got to beat to Cyril Gahn, he's got to beat the Curtis Blades. Like, if he had gone out there and demolished Derek Lewis, I'm not saying it would have put him like right there. But at least he would be in the conversation. It doesn't feel like he's really in that conversation today. Yeah, and he almost did too. And it's one of those fights where, you know, I hate, I almost hate saying things like, you know, if it were, you know, no rules or whatever. Yeah, I mean, I hate making his dash because it's a sport and we have the rules and that's what it is, right? but if it would have been one of those fights with no time round no time limit and just went

you know until a finish you got a hard time believing that Derek Lewis doesn't eventually catch one of those uppercuts yeah he came close a couple times every round it felt like yeah he was he was yeah like I said man it is what it is I mean he got the win and you know but like I said I don't think he got the statement he could have made with like a really big finish, you know what I mean? Because again, Derek, and let me be clear about this. I like Derek Lewis, like he's a good, but Derek Lewis, like, I think we've proven

who Derek Lewis is. Like, we know who Derek Lewis is. Like, he's not, he can still surprise us a little bit, like when he's throw a flying knee like he did in his last fight, but you know, typically speaking, Derek Lewis at 38 or 39, like he's kind of towards the latter part of his career. He's no longer

a top, you know, five heavyweight. He had that brief moment where he kind of jumped up there. Like, we know who Derek Lewis is. right like this fight was to show us who jailton al-meda was and you know he did and but no i don't think that's i don't think that's the way he wanted to do it you know what i mean i don't think that's he came out of it and we're all kind of like yeah jelton omeda way to go yeah yeah well fair enough hopefully we get some more excited fights next weekend right yeah what i listen i think we will you've been you've been super high on the sergey pavlovitch train for quite a while but before i talk about that because

I know it's really crappy timing because when we had the legend Mark Coleman on the show, we did a lot of talk about Steepa and John Jones because he was in Cleveland helping Steepa get ready and we were all very excited. Then, like, days later, you know, the fight falls apart with Jones suffering an injury. I'm curious, like, it's weird because I interviewed, I had to interview it. It'll drop this week with Daniel Cormier. We were preview on UFC 295. And, you know, he had said something to me and I get it.

He's like, we were talking about Jones Steepa and he said, you know, that's kind of like a fight that's bigger than the title in a way because both guys. were so well known and such a like a you know it's one of those like monumental superfights that we just want to see but he's like i think pavlovich and aspinall might be more competitive because he's like listen i love stepe but you know at 41 like where is steepe at and by the time they fight next year he's going to be 42 and one thing dc said to me that is absolutely a factor he said i remember what it was like for me at 41 training to fight stepe am ioch and he's like i knew there was a difference Like I knew my body was not reacting the same way

It's harder to get up in the morning Like little things like that And he's like Jones is still in the prime his career He's like I don't know I don't know what we're going to get out of Steepa in that fight And I was like You're not wrong Like when you think about it

Like and Steepace By the time Stevie comes back next year He's gonna have been out for three years Like that's a long time At that age You know what I mean Like at that age to be out Like he when he last fought he was 39

And he's gonna come back in 42 Like that's a long time So I don't know. Like this was like did the card take a hit losing Jones Steepay? Absolutely. That was a monster fight. Like there's no way as many people are going to buy pay-per-views to watch Yeri and Alex Pereira and Sergey and Tom Aspinall as they would have bought for Steepa and

Steepa and Jones. Like that would have been one of the biggest pay-per-views in the year. It's no longer that. But in terms of competitiveness, I don't disagree with D.C. When he talks about this being on paper a better fight, like in terms of like, Because Pavlovich has been a monster, six straight first round knockouts, Aspinall, six and one in the UFC, same record of Sergei. A lot of, he's only had one fight go to the second round.

So this is a really intriguing fight. Yeah, I'm telling you with you, I don't know why the, I think when you talk about competitiveness, I mean, I don't know if Steepay John Jones would have been competitive one way or another. I don't know if this one would be competitive one way or another because this is fucking MMA, bro, and we get what we never expect to get. So I don't want to make that prediction, but on paper, yeah, I mean, this is just a great fight all around. And I think it's very understandable why the UFC's doing it the way they're doing it.

I don't think it's a bad call. I think it's just an amazing fight, and it should be for the interim title, the way they're doing it. So I love this fight. In a way, like I said, I've said this to some other people, I think introducing the interim title in this particular instance is, I think it is to help sell pay per views a little bit because you lost the title fight, you had a title fight. But let's be honest, Matt, and I know we've had this conversation a little bit before.

When John Jones finally fights Steepi Miochich next year, and let's just say it happens to International Fight Week in 2024, there's a really good chance the winner and the loser in that fight retire. Like, there's a really good chance that that's just a retirement fight for both guys. Because for Joe, like, I think there's a better chance of Jones sticking around because of Jones wins. He might think, well, you know, maybe I'll stick around, defend the belt a couple of times and break the record. But even that, I would say is like lower on the scale of possibilities. I would, I mean, I know Steve Bay has not come out and said it publicly and everything he's talked about is we'll see, we'll see.

I think that's it. Like, what would, if Steve A beats John Jones, what is he coming back for? Like, what are you going to do at that point? Yeah. Yeah. So in a weird way, like this fight at 295. is kind of crowning just a new heavyweight champion. Like they're going to be called interim champion,

but like the chances that Pavlovich or Aspinall ever get to fight Jones or Miyoch is, in my opinion, slim to none. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely lower. I didn't really think about it that way. I think that's true. I've kind of taken this as giving them the interim title as a way to introduce these guys to the world. Like, I mean, we all as casual, our hardcore fans, we all.

all know who Aspinall and Pavlovich are, but the regular fan maybe heard their name in passing or something, right? Like, they're not, you know, gigantic names like Jones and Miotr. So that's the way I took it was like, they're showing the world. This is who these guys are. This is, you know, they got the belt. And when they put it out there to everyone, then it makes the, if Jones or Miotritch doesn't retire, makes that fight even bigger. Yeah. I just have a hard time. believing it will happen you know what i mean like again i think jones there's a possibility with stepe i don't think i don't think there's any i think stepey has one fight left and it's john jones and i think that's pretty much it doesn't make any sense for stepey to do more if he beats jones right

like what what what senses he even make for him i think he's set for life i mean he's he's older like the only reason you got to think probably the only reason he's even fighting jones is just for the legacy fight right like he's not coming back to prove anything i don't think he's out there like i don't think his motivation was to come back for a title like it's john freaking jones and rightly so like you know that's what i said like what would like unless they saw unless francis came back in the fold which we all know is not going to happen but because obviously they split a pair of fights and i know stepe wanted to come back and fight francis to get that trilogy settled you know what i mean kind of like what happened with dc with the cormier thing that's not available so ingano's out of the picture

okay you fight John Jones the greatest of all time why would you come back after that and that's as me as a steep you and I are both steeped guys here in Ohio like what would what what purpose would it serve for you to come back if you beat John Jones like you know like

I'll tell you what I would love to see him come back and run this division you know like it'd be pretty badass he came back and beat Jones and then beat Aspenol and Pavlovich like you know I'm a cheer for Stipe all around all the time everything he does man so I think he'd be badass hard to see him doing that he's a young hungry guys and uh you know that that championship grind is a is another level man

that's some work that we don't understand so yeah but also I mean listen you know Steve Bay's put in a lot of work he's accomplished a lot of things and at some point um you know I mean listen everyone knows that you know time runs out for everybody and and if he goes out and he can actually beat John Jones, that's the biggest win ever. Like, you just beat the unbeatable. You just stop the unstoppable. Why would you... Because not saying he would taint his legacy if he came back and got knocked out by Pavlovich,

but, like, talk about, like, the emotional letdown of that to go out and beat John Jones and then six months later you got to get up and fight this young, hungry Russian or this, you know, mauling Brit, this mauling Brit who is just like, you know, waiting for a chance to beat a legend. And I, like I said, personally, I think Steve A's done. If Steve A fight John Jones next year, win or lose, I think that's the last time we see Steve A meochich in the UFC. Well, we'll not have to interview Steve A and ask him, huh? He'll never tell us.

I know Stepe won't enough. He'll play, he'll play coy right up until the day he retires. But, uh, and I just, and like I said, but that's also why I think this interim title is better because Jones and Steeper are so big that while there's going to be a title on the line, let's be honest. that fights about John Jones fighting Steeping Miotich. Like that's the

magnitude of that fight. Does having a title matter? Sure, it's fun. It adds a little extra oomph to the fight, but does it really matter when it's Joe? It's like if we would have seen GSP fight Anderson Silva back in the day, did we really care that much about titles being on the line

or because we were going to see George St. Pierre fight Anderson Silva. Same thing here. And so like introducing the interim title here is perfect because, you know, they don't fight till July. At least you keep the division moving because the way this is playing out, like, well,

I generally don't like interim titles. Like, in the long run, like we're going to talk about in the second, but like we got Yuri Prahashka fighting Alex Pereira for a vacant title because the light heavyweight title just keeps getting tossed out, won, and lost. Like, guys keep getting injured. And like, this division has gone through so much, like,

craziness. I talked to Jamal Hill. And I was like, is there any part of you that, like, wishes you had just held onto the title and he understood because Yerey got injured he gave up the title so he kind of did the same thing

but even when Yeri got injured with the shoulder injury it's like why didn't they just let him keep the belt and then you introduced the interim title for Jamal Hill and Glover. Yeah I don't it just I don't know like interim titles but this is a scenario with this one the heavyweight title fight

where it actually makes sense and I think it actually would have made sense for light heavyweight as well yeah I don't think anyone likes interim titles right but it's just there's a time and a sport and I think sometimes we start questioning whether it's kind of tossed out there a little bit too often, you know, like, like sometimes you're like, is that interim title really necessary? You know, he's not really a title there. Yeah, that's true.

So what do you think? Aspinola or Pavlovich, how you see this one going down? I know you're a big Sergei guy. You've been banging that drum for a long time. You were on the Sergei train even before I was. So I'm kind of curious. And also, to his credit, Sergey was preparing as the backup. He was training to be the backup for Steep A and Jones.

So he was already going through a training camp. Aspinall wasn't. I've heard Aspenall was training. Like he's not a guy who leaves the gym. But you know, Matt. I know we've had this discussion, not to beat a dead horse here. You train in your gym every single day. But the way you train right now is not the way you train for a fight when you're actually

gearing up for a fight. So, yes, I've heard Aspinall was training. But he wasn't training for November 11. 11th to fight Sergey Pavlovich. So I don't know. Like, how do you feel about this one? Boy, I mean, this is definitely a close one, man. But I lean towards Sergey, mainly because of the power.

Like, I think he's just such a sturdy, strong, durable, powerful guy. But, man, you know, I'm not sure, you know, how much bigger Aspinol is going to be than him, like taller or lengthwise. and I think he's going to outsize him in that aspect some, and I think that could play a big part. And if Aspenall uses that properly and, you know, uses his jab or his length or whatever out there properly, I think that could go a long way.

But I'm not sure how much he's going to outsize him in that regard. Yeah, I think I'm going with Sergei as well. I just think the power and the preparation of the difference here. Like he's got that nasty power, but he's also been training. for this. Like he's been training for the potential of going five rounds with John Jones. He's been training for the potential of going five rounds with Stephen Miotchich. He's actually gone through a training camp and this kind of goes back to what happened to UFC 294. As much as we want

to talk up Alexander Volcanowski and Kamar Usman for stepping in, they were still stepping in at a massive disadvantage. Like they were still stepping in against guys who were going through a full training camp and preparing for that particular date, whereas they were coming off the couch. Like that was the joke going into fight with you. They're coming off the couch. Well, Aspedal's not necessarily coming off to couch, but we got to remember he still took this fight on basically whatever it was like two or three weeks notice. It's certainly not ideal. The good side about that is, is they're heavyweights. And typically speaking, a lot of heavyweight fights end in the first or second round. You should probably have enough cardio to go that deep.

But I'm a believer in Sergei Pavlovich. I think his power's real. I don't think DC said. he's like this is the most powerful puncher we've seen since Francis and I would agree the way he just puts people out is just nasty and he only needs one he needs one to slip through and he'll put you out and so I think Sergey gets it done I think he probably gets a knockout and then maybe we see this rematch like a couple years down the road and hopefully Aspinall will have more time to prepare Aspinall's a monster make no mistake about it but yeah I just I just think sergey right now like I just have a lot of confidence I think that Curtis blades fight really woke me up to how good he's he was. And it's not, to me, it's not just his power. I mean, he's obviously a big powerful guy, but he's very accurate with his punches. And that goes, especially with those four ounce gloves, it goes just as far as power. You know, I mean, like you don't have to, like I'm not a huge power guy, but I got the second most knockouts in the UFC, you know, like I'm not explosive, like a Michael Chandler or anything. But, you know, it's an accuracy, man. Conner talked about it,

you know, kind of famously. So that's the one thing with Sergey that I seen, I think it was was the tie to Vasa fight that really turned me when I just seen how accurate his punches were and I was like, damn, like that's going to be a problem to deal with. But how he deals, again, I have to see the stats to see exactly how much reach Aspinall is going to have on him. And it may be a small amount, but there may not even be much at all. Like even if Sergey has more reach, you know, I think that how that reach distance is kind of determined. It's going to determine the fight. Yeah.

It's interesting because, like I said, there's a lot to be said about, you know, obviously styles being matchups. Let's see here. Let me look. I'm going to pull up some stats here right now. Let's see. Where are we at?

Pereira. Where is the Aspen. There we go. Pavlovich Aspinal. Let's see here. Pavlovich is 6 foot 3. Aspinall is 6 foot 5 Reach is actually

Here's an interesting stats Sergei Pavlovich 84 inch reach Tom Aspinall 78 inch reach he's got a 6 inch reach advantage on Tom Aspinall Yeah so that's kind of what I was getting I knew Aspinall was taller but I wasn't sure

How the reach would play out And those stats also can be deceiving too You know so it depends on And that's kind of what I was getting out there It's going to depend a lot on who actually uses their reach better, I think. Who's able to kind of start gauging that distance

and infiltrating the distance a little bit better, whether that's through a jab or through, you know, combinations. Sergei seems to me like he does his best work when he's able to start getting combos going, right? When he's able to start applying some pressure and getting you at the end of his punches.

So I think that that's going to be the big part. And that doesn't mean that Aspernel even if he's got the shorter reach, especially being the taller man, it doesn't mean he can't out jab him, right, and maintain and control that distance. And, you know, even if I got the shorter reach and I'm Aspinall, that's the game that I'm going to start working towards first. I, you know, start whether you could use teep kicks or, you know, whatever,

but start winning that range battle and forcing Sergei to try to come in. So to me it's a matter of whether Sergey is able to breach at distance, start laying in his big shots because like you said, it's not going to take very many from him. Here's the one thing I'll say, and I know people are going to be like, dude, you're a hater.

I'm not a hater because I've spent the last two weeks on this show praising Francis Agon who left down and center in terms of his performance. But when you watch Francis in the UFC, at least in a lot of his fights, he did rely solely on power. It wasn't necessarily the best technique in the world because he just was so, like when you watch him knockout

Jersey, a Rosenstrike, he's literally just swinging for the fences and he just knocked him in the middle last week. Now, we know from his fight with Tyson Fury and his win over Steepa that he does have good boxing when he controls himself and I think that was a product of fighting a guy like Steepen who also has good boxing.

He knew he couldn't just go in there and overwhelm Stepe would just throw big looping punches. Where I like what Sergei does, what you mentioned is he's got a good jab. He's got a good, accurate jab that sets up his other punches. I would argue that Sergey is on equal footing in terms of danger of what he presents with Francis, like when he was in the UFC in terms of power.

The difference that I gave Sergey credit for earlier is, as you said, the accuracy. He does set up a jab, which is something Francis didn't really do a lot in his UFC fights. Now, Francis was clearly a more accomplished fighter by this point, and I think that Stepe fight was really the one that showed how amazing he could be on the feet. but he would still use a lot of fights just overwhelming people with power. He didn't necessarily go in there thinking, I'm going to set up my jab,

I'm going to, you know, I'm going to out technique him and then knock him out. He would just kind of like, oh, this guy can't take my power. I'm just going to knock the piss out of him. Sergei does. Sergei actually said like that, that blaze fight, man,

he popped him with several hard shots from a distance and didn't just explode forward and go crazy. Like he set up things, stuff to take down, and then went out and knocked him out. And I think that's super impressive with Sergey. Yep. And that's why I said that's going to be the the telltale sign of who wins this fight. And that's going to be

the deal breaker who wins this fight, I think. Because I think Aspenall, again, being the taller guy, you know, those reach stats, they can be very deceiving. You know, like, I had a friend back in the day who was about a 5 foot 7 wrestler, but he had the same reach that I did. But it's because his lats were absolutely massive. I take it back, his wingspan was the same.

So when they measure like knuckle to knuckle, like it was about the same as mine. It was a little bit less, but pretty comparable. And because, I mean, his lats and shoulders were absolutely massive, which was great for wrestling too, right? So now those stats can be very deceiving. But that's why I said,

whoever is able to set that range well. Because Aspinall, I don't think that Aspinall can sit in the pocket and trade with Sergey and I think that's where he could potentially run into trouble. I think he has a lot of ways to win this fight, but I think that's where the trouble would be for him. So setting that range is going to just be huge for him. And that's why I lean towards Sergey

because I just don't think, I think Sergey will be able to deal with that range well enough. And now that you're putting out the reach stats, it kind of convinces me even more. He'll be able to find a way to get around it. Yeah. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to lux beauty and fragrance sets,

our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. In the co-main event, of course, we got Yuri Prohoshka against Alex Pereira, and every single person I've talked to about this fight has pretty much the same opinion, which is, um, Yeri takes a lot of chances and takes a lot of risks, which is dangerous against a guy like Alex Pereira. But the downside of this is, is we're still, in a lot of ways, figuring out who Alex Pereira is, even 10 fights into his career and six fights in the UFC or whatever it's been.

Like, we're still trying to kind of figure out who this guy is, because he's still. an incredible, incredible, incredible, um, incredible kickboxer. But, you know, is he really developed as a ground fighter? But then the flip side is, is that Yeri likes to take, Yeri has not gone through a single fight in his UFC career where he hasn't gotten rocked a little bit on the feet. Like he did it against Dominic Reyes. He did it against Walkin Osdemeer.

Uh, he did it against Glover Tashira. Uh, he's just a guy who's willing to take chances. Like, he'll, he's like, I'll take your best punch. and I'll give you my best punch, and I'm guaranteeing my best punch is better. That's kind of like the Yeri philosophy. Yeah. And I'm like,

that's a dangerous game to play with Alex Pereira, but at the same time, you know, one takedown from Yeri could end the fight. Like, that's how it could end up. So I'm like, I'm kind of torn on this one. Like my gut says,

Yeri Pahashka, he's the better, more round of, well-rounded fighter, and I think he has more ways to win. But I just, I don't know, man. Like, when you're,

when you're that nasty of a kickboxer, it does only take, one from Alex Pereira and he'll put your lights out. Yeah, and you're also, you're talking about one of the wildest, strangest, uh, fighters in Yuri Parashka that we've ever seen, right? He's some of the most insane techniques we've ever seen. I mean, he's just a,

you very unique guy all around, right? And when he fights, it's always a very unique fight, right? Against a guy that we haven't seen a lot in MMA, right? We don't even, like you said, we don't even, really know who Alex Pereer is all the way around in MMA. We know who he is as a kickboxer, and we know he can do a lot of that in MMA. But, you know, this is a real, like, wildcard fight, you know. And it's good.

I think it's a very, very difficult fight to pick. I'd be curious what the odds are in this fight. Yere's probably. Yerey's favored, but it's very small. It's not a big favor. Yeah, I was they say it's probably, it's got to be close to even, I got to think. Yeah. Maybe with you're a slight favorite, but.

Yeah. And that's probably because like he throws those wild techniques. And, you know, when you ain't used to seeing that stuff or you're not used to, you know, spar them with guys like that, which you can't, you know, how do you train for Yuri Prasca? Right. Like, who do you bring in to do that? You don't, you can't find someone.

So you're going to see things in the octagon that you've probably never seen before in your life. And if those things take you off. you know, especially like when you're trying to like time someone and you're finding that that certain rhythm that they're bringing to you and, and you're like, okay, I got it.

And then he throws something just completely out of the ordinary. Yeah. You know, it can really throw you off a lot, especially when you've sparred guys for years or fought guys for years that fell for that trap. Yeah. You know those,

those giant blow up doll things they put outside like car dealerships? Like they have the things where they have like the waving arms. You know what I'm talking about like the big. Oh yeah. Like that's what Yuri Pajshka is. Like you can't really see. He just kind of goes up and throws things and his arms are everywhere and like he's all over the place. The first time someone tries to hit the double in bag and it's just bouncing back and forth.

Yeah. Like it's just so in you're right. Like how do you train for that guy? Because you can't because he's so weirdly creative. Like you can't. And also and you and I know this. Sometimes when fighters have that creativity, their opponents will over-prepefirmation. prepare for that. Like they'll over prepare for the weirdness and they'll miss the jab or you know,

they'll miss just a straight hook coming at them because they're so concerned about the spinning elbows and the weird wheel kicks and, you know, they start thinking about the I got to look out for all the weird stuff and then they miss the simple stuff. That's a good call. Yeah. And it also, you know, for on Yerry's side, it's a little bit of a kamikaze style. You know, he's kind of a killer or diet type guy. And like you said, against Pereira, boy, that's a, that's a dangerous thing. That's a dangerous, dangerous, dangerous game to play. It is, it is.

But you know what? We also haven't seen Alex at 205 either. Yeah. I mean, well, he saw him against John. He fought Blahovic. He had that one fight. But, yeah, I mean, he didn't. Yeah.

Yeah, he didn't, you know, and he won. I thought he won the fight. It was a close fight, but I thought he won. Yeah, I just, listen, I think out, what Alex Pereer has done this early and his UFC career is pretty phenomenal to actually get to this point. But yeah, I just, I have to lean Yeri just because, and again, a lot of my picks, when I pick a fight like this that's kind of a toss-up, I always go back to who has more ways to win.

And I think Yeri has more ways to win because Yeri has gone five rounds. Yeri has one fights on the ground. Yeri has one fights on the feet. Yeri, we've seen it. Now, does he take chances and take risks to the Kibak fire? Absolutely. but I have a little bit more faith in what he's done at 205

whereas Alex has one fight at light heavyweight does he still have the same power can he still put people away the same way he did a middle weight does he have a ground game to deal with you I mean Yeri tapped out Glover Tashara on the ground. Glover to share is one of nastiest ground guys in the world and he tapped out Glover

Tashira so anything's possible but I have to lean Yeri just because I think he has more ways to win this fight and I think that that makes a difference in terms of a fight that I'm having trouble picking. I always like to fall down on the side of who has more ways to win. I think Erie has more ways to win. I'm a contradicted you.

I'll take Alex on this fight. And, you know, very slight lean, only because I'm generally all that wild stuff, I think works up to a certain level. And I think that Alex is above that level. Now, if it hits the ground, you know what I mean? I think Yuri, uh,

he's going to have a pretty significant advantage. But we don't really know where Alex is on the ground at this point. But I forgot that he fought at 205 before you, right? But when it comes to high-level kickboxing, striking, you know, I lean towards the fundamental guy that has better fundamentals. Yeah. So we're mostly talking about UFC 295, but, you know, we're kind of a live thing happening here.

A big fight announcement just made, just broke, as we're talking, so we might as well react to it. Dana White just announced the main event for UFC 297 on January 20th in Toronto will be Sean Strickland putting his middleweight title on the line against Dracus Duplice. He gets his title fight. Oh, nice. Yeah, so Dracus is getting his title shot.

He earned it. You kind of feel bad for the guy after what happened with the whole, you know, the disaster with him not being able to fight Israel in September. And you kind of felt like, man, are they just going to punish this guy? and here comes Hamzot, and they're like, Hamzot gets the title shot, and then they end up going back to Dracus. So it's going to be Dracus duplice against Sean Strickland.

That's a really interesting matchup, man. Like I said, Sean Strickland proved me so wrong, beating Israel out of Sanya that way. But, man, the way Dracus beat Robert Whitaker, that was such a wake-up call. I've never seen, I mean, did Israel beat Robert Whitaker in their first fight in similar fashion? But the way Dracus beat Robert Whitaker,

I was like, holy crap, man. This is this dude's a monster. And the way Drake is just finds a fucking way, man. You know, this guy just, he, he doesn't look like the most phenomenal guy out there. He doesn't look like, you know, the most fundamental, the most technical, the strongest, the fastest. Like, he doesn't have that one thing that stands out, you know. But he finds a goddamn way, man. So you got to give it to him.

And I think it's going to be interesting to see how Strickland, how he matches up with Strickland. I think that's going to be really, really interesting because I think Strickland definitely does well against the technical guys like Ahasanya. He needs to be interesting to see how he does against, I mean, I'm sure we could go back and watch his fights, but to see him against someone not quite as conventional and not as, I don't know, definitely not as technical, not sure the term I'm looking for, but maybe, you know, a little bit more, you know, not as easy to guess what they're about to do, you know? Yeah, that'll be interesting.

And then on top of that, we got two more fights announced for February and March. February, we're getting Alexander Volcanowski against Ilya Tuporia. And then in March, we are getting Sugar-Shon-O-Malley against Cheetah Vera, the rematch. They are doing the rematch after all in March. I can take that. So obviously, Volcanowski and Tuporia, we all kind of knew that was coming. I am curious to see how Alex comes back from the knockout. First time he's had that happened to UFC.

Is there an emotional letdown? I don't know. He didn't do it last year when he lost a really close fight to Islam and then came back and just beat the brakes off Yaya Rodriguez. It's going to fire him up more. Yeah. And I'll hit Tepore is a monster. But Matt, I got to be honest, man.

Like, I like Cheetah Vera. I really do. But this is like the pure promotional title fight. Like the fact that O'Malley is getting. Chito is this is 100% like the Connor the Connor show right like this is the Connor McGregor I'm a star so I'm gonna call my shot treatment like let's be honest about this yeah yeah fair enough but it dude I kind of hope Cheeto can get it done and not because I hate Shottomalley but because I love Cheetos so much man and he's definitely the type we've seen

enough of his fights we know this this guy can fucking pull it out man And then he finally getting a title fight. Yeah, this could be, I think it's going to be a better fight than, I think a lot of people are going to assume Sean O'Malley is going to kind of walk through him, even though, you know, what happened in the first fight happened. You know, and we both agreed, I think, when we talked about it before, like Sean O'Malley's probably made bigger improvements,

at least from what we've seen. Like, Sean O'Malley's the star. Sean O'Malley's looking absolutely a phenomenal. But, man, Jito. this guy's got, I think he's got a fire under his ass. I think he might be able to pull this out. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, like I said, this is, I mean, listen, when you get an opportunity like this,

when everyone is telling you, you don't deserve this, like, you know, no one is, no one is, no one is sitting there saying, man, he really, he really, he's on a one fight win streak over a late notice of a replacement opponent. Like, it's not like he went out there and, you know, he tore through Marab and Al Jameen and all this kind of stuff. Like, he's on a one fight win streak. He's getting this because he has a win over Sean O'Malley. That's the reason he's getting this.

So make the most of it. Like make the most of this opportunity because if you lose here, you're probably not going to get another one. Like maybe I'm not saying ever, but like it's going to take a lot for you to get back there again to get another title shot against anyone that's champion. You're getting this because you had the Willie Wonka golden ticket. You have the win of Rashaa O'Malley.

So you're getting the title shot and make the most of it. Do not waste this opportunity. I don't think he will. I'm just saying, like, I think that's the magnitude of this for Cheetah Vera. But Cheetah's a gamer man. Like, he's never going to just fade away and go away for anybody. I mean, even the fights he's lost. It's not like he's gone out there and just absolutely gotten decimated.

You know what I mean? Like, he stood with Corey Sanhagen, who I think is one of the best strikers in the entire sport. And did he lose? Yes, he lost the fight. But he still stood toe to toe with Corey Sanhagen. And I think he can do the same thing to Sean. I won't be shocked if Cheetah pulls this off. That's it, right?

you're not going to be shocked. Boy, that kind of gets me fired up, man. I love Cheetah. I love watching him fight. And the way Sean O'Malley's been looking these last few fights, you know, I was never a big sugar-shon guy. Like, I never thought he would get to the title. I thought he would get smashed by Al Jermaine.

You know, I was never on that sugar train. But he has proved me wrong time and time again. So I got to believe in what he's doing. But, boy, I, I, I, I, I, kind of believe more in what Sean's doing, but I like watching Cheeto more. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm stuck for that guy. I think he's such a great guy. And I'd love to see him go out there and get it done. Yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean, I think O'Malley's made a lot of improvements since then. And I, like I said,

I would lean towards O'Malley right now in the moment, you know, like I just think he's done more and improved more than Cheeto has. But Cheeto's a gamer and you can never count him out. So it's a really interesting fight. And also, you know, I mean, listen, this is, this kind of reminds of when Bisping became champion, when Michael Bispin became champion, and they didn't make him fight Robert Whitaker, they gave him Dan Henderson, because he wanted to avenge the loss to Dan Henderson from UFC 100, and so they rebooked that fight, and it ended up being a pretty, it didn't be a really good scrap. It ended up been a really fun fight, but that's why it happened, and that's why this is happening.

Like, Marab de Walshvili is getting screwed. Like, there's no way around it. He should absolutely, without a doubt, be fighting for the title right now. as much as I like Cheeto and I do like Cheeto this comes at the expense of Marabda Walshvili and that sucks. Like he really,

it breaks my heart man. He's done everything he could. And to me, it's a bummer that it seems like he's getting passed over because at one point he said, I don't want to fight my friend. Yeah, I guess he'll probably have to wait, which sucks.

Sounds like he's going to fight. And it sounds like he's going to fight Ceuto is the rumor. He's going to fight Suhudo. So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, if he wins that, then, you know, it makes it even tougher to pass him up. Right.

And we, like, I know I say it on the show all the time, Matt. Like, if you're an MMA fan, just strike the word deserves from your vocabulary. Like, should we just, like, should, like, does merit even matter anymore? Like, really? Like, I mean, listen, Drake's duplice earned it. But if they would have given Hamzaat the shot, will we? have been that surprise, like if Hamza just got, you know what I mean? Like, does merit even matter anymore, really? Like, is it just about name, pal. Yeah, I guess it's a combination nowadays, right?

Like, you got to have, you know, if you want it, the faster that you, the more prominent you are, the faster your, your path is going to be, right? It's not one or the other, you know, but you, of course, you do, you know, it is the UFC still. Like, you still have to go out there and win fights, right? merit's still going to matter. Just not as much if you're more prominent. Yeah, I mean, you can skip the line. Like, you know, Sean O'Malley beat. Yeah, Sean O'Malley beat in Pierre Yon was a big win, but that's his one win he had.

Like, he didn't have like a long string of top 10 wins to get to Al Jermaine. He got the fight with Al Jamee because he's Sean O'Malley. Like, did he win against Peter Yon to get it? Sure, but he made the fast ascension because he's a star, you know, like Connor, Connor beating Dennis Seaver doesn't necessarily make you the number one contender. But he's Connor McGregor, so he gets, you know, whatever that is. You know what I mean? Like, that's like when you're a star, all bets are off.

Like all bets are off on what you can ask for, what you can get, who your opponents are going to be. Like, all that goes out the window when you actually draw that many eyeballs. Yeah, and like Tony Ferguson had like, what, 12 in a row? and got the interim title or something, I think. So, yeah, yeah, you just, it's a combination of the two, right? You know, we understand what the UFC's model is and why they do what they do. Like, it's hard to hate on it. But, you know, I think me and you are on the same page.

We like seeing those guys that deserve it, get it, right? That's what we want to see as hardcore fans. Like, we're not, we're way more interested in seeing a guy work his way up there. you know, the number one rank guy. Like we would rather see Marab get the fight. Yeah, and I think that's like we get it. We understand it. And I think the only time it really irritates me is in a situation like this.

Like there is a clear cut number one contender. Like back and listen, when George St. Pierre fought Nick Diaz back in the day, I loved that fight. Like Nick Diaz is a legend. But Johnny Hendricks was on like a seven fight win streak. And, you know, he was the number one contender. Clearly the number one contender. And they gave it to Nick Diaz over him.

And it's kind of the same thing here. Like if Marab didn't exist, I would say, sure, give it to Cheeto. I don't care. But because Marab's out there, I'm kind of like, man, this sucks. Like, again, we argue for Dracus. Same kind of thing. Now, he's getting it, but I think he's getting it because Hamzot's injured. Homzot has a torn ligament in his hand.

And then he made of it in January 20. Or it would be Hamzot in Sean Strickland. Like, he's getting it. You know. The hard part, too, is, you know, I mean, we feel bad from Rob for not getting the title shot. But now he's got to go fight Henry Sehuto. it's not like he gets a tune-up fight or keep a warm fight, you know, keep them in there and keep everything sharp to get ready for that title fight.

And now you've got to go fight one of the greatest combat sports league, combat sports athletes of all time. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, here's your consolation prize. Go fight one of the greatest champions ever in the Olympic gold medalist. And look, if he loses that fight, you know, that changes the trajectory of his life, you know. So, you know, it's certainly not too cool. But it is what it is, man.

This is the world we live in right now. The UFC is kind of like just beat us down where we're just kind of like, yeah, I kind of expected this. Yeah, that's exactly it. All right. Well, we'll be back next week to break down everything to happen at UFC 295 in a matter of days. Obviously, there are fights beyond the two title fights, but of course, that's what we wanted to focus on today. So we'll get back into that next week and kind of break down everything to happen to UFC 295 and our thoughts on the fights. I assume you'll be watching this weekend, Max, I know I will be.

I should be watching. Yeah, yep, I should be. I have a seminar Saturday, so I imagine I'll probably stay there. It's in Kentucky. I probably stay the night and watch the fights with the guys down there, have some good times. I teach some guys, some martial arts techniques. That's what I do. So if anybody listen, ever wants a seminar, you know, who to hit up.

There you go. I love it. And anywhere else, anyone that wants to check out, of course, to support you and the people who support you, Matt, where can they find it? Well, if they want a seminar, want to learn about martial arts or what I got going on, I am the immortal on Twitter and Instagram, or if you want to get jacked at the immortal coffee. There you go. I love it.

We will be back next week, as I said, talking about UFC 295, the fallout from that card. See if Matt or I. We split on, we agreed on Sergei, but we split on the actual main event between Yere, and Alex. We'll see you as bragging rights next week on the show. We appreciate everyone that tunes in each and every week to the show. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

and of course over on the best website in the world, mhmapfiting.com. Thanks so much for tuning in to another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. We'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning in.