MMA Fighting - Fighter vs Writer: Matt Brown on Conor McGregor vs. Mike Perry in Bare-Knuckle and Israel Adesanya Fighting with Something to Prove at UFC Saudi Arabia

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin discuss BKFC KnuckleMania V and the potential for Conor McGregor to actually make his return in a bare-knuckle fight against Mike Perry or Jeremy Stephens plus we talk about Israel Adesanya coming back with something to prove at UFC Saudi Arabia off two straight losses and if Michael 'Venom' Page is making a mistake going up to middleweight to face a killer like Shara Bullet plus much more Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wi-Fi available to AeroPlan members on equip flights sponsored by Bell Conditions apply see Air Canada.com You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown and Matt. We are now just days away from the UFC returning to Saudi Arabia,

the return of Israel Adisania. And we're coming off a weekend of BKFC putting on an incredible show in Philadelphia. A headline by Jeremy Stevens finishing. Eddie Albers is actually breaking its jaw into fight and finishing him in the third round. Eddie Alvarez is his corner. or three in the towel. And then Ben Rothwell goes out, gets a huge knockout to become heavyweight champion. Also, of course, want to mention Paul Hughes and Usman Dermagabed.

I'll put on a five-run classic. Usman de Mugamato holds on to his title. So a non-UFC weekend, but still some fights. Hey, can we just talk about how badass BKFC is, though, right? Dude, I love it. Like, I know I've said on this show before, and people are like, dude, I'm sick of you talking about BKFC. I love BKFC. I love what they do.

And I know I've said this. They say that they're sick of listening to you talk about it? Just because I think everyone knows I'm a fan of it. Like, I love it. Like, I think it's awesome. And something, and I always bring this up, Matt, and I know you agree with me because we've talked about it before. This is something Kai Stewart, their featherweight champion brought up to me like a year ago.

We were doing an interview. And I was saying, like, the success of BKFC, and he said the reason why, not the only reason by, but one of the biggest reasons why they're finding success where PFL, all these other MMA organizations are struggling, is because BKFC is giving you something different. They're not just giving you non-UFCMMMMMM. because the average fan that knows MMA knows the UFC. When they see something that's not UFC, they think of it like watching the minor leagues. I'm not saying it's true.

I'm just saying that's the way a lot of people view it. But BKFC is something totally different. Plus, you get names in there you recognize like Jeremy Stevens, Eddie Alvarez, Ben Rothwell, Mike Perry. You know those guys. But then you get to watch them go in there with bare fists. And, dude, Saturday night, they did it in Philadelphia. There were over 17,000 fans in the arena from the first fight. Dude, it was the prelims.

They were there for the prelimbs. And that crowd was insane. There were so many brutal knockouts, dude. It was awesome. Like, it was the event of the weekend. It stole the show. And not only is it something different, but it's also got the fighters that are still,

like, maybe in their prime or around their prime at least, right? Like, how many promotions did they just get fighters after they've been to the UFC? Like, that's just the game they play. That's the, like, you're literally projecting that you are second place to the UFC. So I would say, you know, not just something different, but like they have legit fighters in there. And, you know, it's interesting too to me when they brought in real boxers like Austin Trout or Polly Malinaggie.

And these guys are not doing great in it. They're not the champions. Those are the guys you'd be like, oh, yeah, they're going to go out there and kill all these redneck brawlers and stuff. No. It is actually a different sport. I find it fascinating. I also love that it seems like they know who to go after when it comes to MMA. They're not just taking everybody. Like, you look at, like, I talked to Jeremy Stevens today. And I was like, you were built for bare knuckle. Like, I'm not saying you didn't have a good, I mean, he fought in the UFC for like a decade. Of course he's a talented guy. But like you were, Mike Perry. Mike Perry had a decent record in the UFC.

He didn't have a terrible record in UFC. But he is a superstar. and because Ben Rothwell is 43. He knows he's at the tail end of his career. But I asked him today, I said, because he just won the heavyweight title. And he talked about his two biggest wins in MMAers when he choked out Josh Barnett and he knocked out Alistair over him. He's like, those are probably my two biggest wins. But neither of those fights had 17,000 people in him. Neither of those fights had the energy that he had on Saturday night when he scored a 36-second knockouts to become champion.

He's like, that was the moment of my career. I mean, that's awesome for a guy. Because Ben Rathwell has been around forever. and he's fought everybody to see him have that kind of cool moment at 43. And he's still a bad dude, by the way. He's not like he's washed up or anything. Like, he's still a bad dude. He scored a 36-second knock.

I was like, God, I was like, damn. He's just, it's just so much fun. And it's very funny or interesting how Bill Ben Rothwell is for that too. But you would not have thought of him as the guy built for bare-knuckle fighting. And he's done amazing at it, right? And when you watch his style, I mean, I only watch the 30-second fight or whatever, but, like, it works really well for bare knuckle, the way that he fights in it. Yeah. And listen, we talk a lot.

I know people get sick of us talking about Connor McGregor on this show. Not even talking about him as a fighter, but him getting behind BKFC as a go-owner, just him showing up. Him show up to the presser late and saying, I showed up late, I don't give a fuck. And then he just goes on. He has this great speech. He's like turn your knuckles into knives and just a great like Connor moment pumping up. He's out there doing the face. Like I said, I tweeted on Friday or Thursday.

I said, what a surreal moment? He's standing in between Eddie Alvarez and Jeremy Stevens. One guy he fought and the other guy he had that infamous, you know, that press conference moment. The fuck is this guy. Yeah. And he's standing in between them promoting them now. Like it's just surreal. But, you know, Connor jumping in the ring, celebrate with Ben Rothwell, jumping in the ring.

He had a face on with Jeremy Stevens. Now, do I actually think him and Jeremy Stevens are going to fight bare knuckle? No, I know Connor's like, I'm going to do it. I get it. And you know what? Honestly, I think if Connor was actually healthy enough because he has a vested interest, I think he probably would. He just can't because he's under contract to the EOC.

They're not going to let him do a bare and uncle fight. But Connor's presence and actually being there, like he's actually there. Yeah. It pays off. And I would love to see him do it. I think it would be amazing, even though, like you said, It's probably not going to happen. I would love to see it, though.

Him and Jeremy Stevens, I think there'd be a lot of great hype for that. And I think it would be a good fight, too. I think it would be a really interesting fight, especially in a bare-knuckle style. Yeah, I mean, Connor, Connor is a striker, predominantly a boxer. He hits hard. There's no doubt about that. And he comes from that Irish background. Like, tell me, tell me that, like, listen, again, I'm not saying it's going to happen.

But, like, of all the things that I could get excited about right now, like, Logan Paul, we know that's not happening. him coming back and fighting Michael Chandler would I get excited, sure. But what would make me most excited about Connor McGregor? I ain't a lie to you. Him and Jeremy Stevens or him and Eddie Alvarez or him and Mike Perry in a bare knuckle fight? Tell me you wouldn't get a little more excited about

because you don't have to worry about the legs, you don't have to a little bit of the wrestling. Like you just get to see Connor throw down. Tell me that wouldn't be the most exciting Connor McGregor fight. I think that's a no-brainer, bro. That's by far the most exciting Connor McGregor fight out there right now.

Does that happen? I guess it's a little bit unlikely, right? Like, but maybe the UFC gets behind it, right? He did the boxing match with Floyd Mayweather. Maybe he gets behind it. And I think it would, Connor would love to do it primarily for the reason. You don't have to get in the same shape, right? You only got to throw hands and it's five, three-minute rounds.

Two-minute, two-minute rounds. He would love that. Two-minute rounds. I'm sorry, two-minute rounds. Even better, right? So, you know, the conditioning is completely different. stylistically, I don't think he has a terrible style for a bare knuckle. You know, it'd be interesting, right?

You don't really know until they get in there. Like, I would never thought Ben Rathwell has a great style for a bare knuckle. Jeremy Stevens, obviously, has a great style for a bare knuckle. But he's one of those guys you'd be, I would be concerned he would break his hands, right? Because he throws for the fences every time. And I'm like, dude, you are definitely going to break your hands if you go to bare knuckle. Yeah, but I mean, just talking about it, like, again, I'm not saying I wouldn't get excited.

All the talk we've had about Connor, like, is he going to fight again? Is he not going to fight again? Putting that all aside, when he was fighting Michael Chandler, we're like, you've said it many time, by the way, just to give you credit, because you've been the guy saying the loudest of the longest. He'd give me the credit. Connor wasn't going to fight again, but you said you want him to fight again. That's like the thing that always gets missed.

You don't think he's going to fight again, but you said absolutely I want to see Connor back. But for all the talk about, you know, Chandler and all these other fights, like, dude if they booked him and Mike Perry in a bare knuckle fight tell me that would not be the most exciting fight take a book because again you eliminate all the things that Connor I mean tough to fight bro like that's the best

fucking uh media tour in history 100% that's easily the best media tour you could ask for even if they don't even fight if they just say they're going to fight and do a media tour like who cares if they fight like that's the greatest

that's the greatest press conference I could possibly imagine. Yeah. Like if I said that to you, I said, Matt, you have a choice of Connor coming back and fighting Michael Chandler, Connor doing a boxing match with Logan Paul, I know. I'm just saying it's an option.

Or Connor coming back and doing a bare-knuckle fight with Mike Perry. Which one are you put, if they're saying, you got to put your $80 pay-per-view money down on one of those three fights. Which one are you paying for? Yeah, you know the answer to that, right? It's going to be Mike Perry all day, bro. And again, now,

if we do a media tour, we all three of those. Which one do you want to see the most? Oh, not even close. It's Mike Perry. It's 100% Mike Perry. You know it's going to get nuts. You know, Logan Paul would be fun too, right? Like, it would probably just get stupid and we'd be like, okay, that was cheesy. You know, you made this shit up. You scripted this. But like, him and Mike Perry, like, they don't need to script anything. They don't need to come up with, like, they're the craziest motherfuckers out there already.

Yeah, like that just immediately like that. And again, I don't know if it's going to happen, but I know that just thinking about it, I'm more excited about that that I would be him coming back and fighting. Yeah, I have tons of respect for guys like Charles Oliver, guys like that, but like, am I going to be as excited for that as I would be? Because again, the questions we have about Connor come back with the leg injury

and that little extracurricular things he was doing on the side, you don't have to worry about that in bare knuckles. So I'm just saying, like, dude, let him go in there. And we've seen him fighting in May too, right? We've seen it, right? It's a story that's been written. We've seen him, you know, the end of his

career in MMA as we know it. We haven't seen him in bare knuckle. And the thing I like about it, the thing I actually love about it, Connor seems to really embrace it. Like I know he's got a vested interest because he put money into it, but he seems to love it, man. Like he's in there with the fighters and he mixes it up and he's, and again, I don't know how much money he has invested.

Is it a million dollars? Is it $20 million? I don't know. But what I do know is is Connor has flown out to a bunch of events. He was out, you know, he flew out to like Sturgis. he's been, obviously he was in Philadelphia this weekend, he's flown out to California. Like, he's making trips to make appearances. And again, like it or not, Conner-Bringer is still the most magnetic personality in our

sport. Like, he's invested in this to the point where, like, he truly loves it. And you and I bowed, no, Matt, like, your gym, like, if you were just working at a gym, of course you do a good job because you're a hard worker and, of course you do it. But you have a vested interest in your gym because you own it, right? Like, that's your baby. You have a much bigger interest in your gym succeeding than if you were just, working at like a gold's gym or like a lifetime fitness like it would be a job but that's your

business the fact that connor's actually invested in bkfc and he seems to love it again like that like him facing off with jeremy stevens on saturday night i was way more excited about that than him facing on michael chanel on the ultimate final he was like all right he's facing on michael chanel i've seen this before him do him finally coming face to face with who the fuck is this guy coming nose to nose and they're talking shit i was like let's go let's see that that's all that's Awesome. Who would have thought this is how the world would turn out, right? Like, how often – this happens all the time in the May, where we just – we never know how things are going to work out, man. But, yeah, it's exciting times, bro.

Can I ask – one thing we did mention from the weekend before we talking about the UFC this weekend, the GFL, they had a draft, sort of, I guess, on Friday. But here's what – I'm not asking you about the drafts. I know you didn't watch. I didn't watch. I just saw the aftermath, which was hilariously bad. Like they had Rashad Evans get drafted. Rashad Evans never signed with him. Rashad Evans is like, I never signed with you. And they literally, the next day, the next day they took his face off the graphic.

My question is this, did GFL reach out to you, Matt? Did they try to sign you? Because they seemed to try to sign everybody. They did not. I'm shocked. If they did, I missed the call. I might have missed the call. You know, like, I'm shocked.

I don't. Yeah, you know, I miss a lot of calls. So maybe they tried or, you know, I have no idea, but I don't remember getting anything from them, which I wouldn't be totally interested anyway. But, you know, unless they, I don't know what kind of payday, you know. It was like when PFL came out, you know, and they had those million dollar tournaments, right? You know, a lot of guys were excited about it. They signed in.

They got their million dollars. And now PFL, as far as I could tell, is kind of on their way out. Right? And it's like, hey, you know, you struck while the iron was hot as a fighter, right? And that's what I'm guessing these guys are kind of doing with the GFL. I don't know the exact deals that they're making, but, you know, they're promoting that they're putting out a lot of money for these guys. So, you know, I guess good for them. I've seen like Chris Wydenman got drafted and he's not retiring now or something. And yeah, dude, I don't know. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes here. I'm not sure if we want to know. My biggest fear, because I've heard some of the paydays, I'm not going to say who I know the paydays for, but like I know guys who were in the UFC, not bad fighters, but not champions,

not like top five guys. I've heard her getting paid like $2,000, $250,000 a fight. Guys who are established bigger names and champions, I've heard numbers like a million, a million to a fight. Now, Matt, you and I talked about this. I'm not going to rehash an old subject, but that's just not sustainable. It's just not sustainable. But also the thing that worries me the most about GFL is somebody put out a graphic the other day with the draft.

The average age in the GFL is like 36. That's the average age. I mean, listen, I have so much respect for guys like Frank Meir and some of these guys do. Now, Shogun does not need to fight again. He does not. No, as like I was saying before, you know, these, what's cool about BKFC, like they're not necessarily building their brand off of retired UFC fighters. And that's what we've seen happen so many times with these other organizations. And I really don't want to see it again.

The only one that did it really well, you know, there was pride who didn't do that. And then like, strike force, right? Like they built their own guys from the bottom up. And, you know, maybe GFL can work their way into doing that eventually. but right now just getting the promotion with a bunch of retired guys. Like, you know, doesn't excite guys like me and you, I think. I mean, listen, I have so much admiration for guys like Chris Wydenman and Tyron Woodley's a buddy of mine. I've known Tyne for many, many years.

I love Tyrone. Tire is a good dude. I really like Tyrone. And I don't think Tyra would be categorized at that same level because, again, yes, he is in his 40s, but again, I still think he's got some juice left to squeeze. But, like, a guy like Shogun. I love Shogun. Shogun's a legend. I don't really, it's just going to make me sad to see that again.

Like, you know what I mean? It's already been like a year and a half or two years since he fought, and he was already not doing well at the end. Do I really need to see him out there fighting again? I just, things like that. Like, that just, I don't know, man, it doesn't sit well with me. And I don't fault anyone. Like, I certainly don't fault Chris Weidman for retiring from the UFC

and getting paid, I don't know, they either pay him $2 million to go fight over there. Good for him. I'm not going to fault him for making money. But, man, it just, I don't know, man. I feel like this is like people, we asked me like what about their first show supposed to be in April I was like is there going to be a first show are you sure about that are you sure about that so I don't know

man I'm not I'm not trying to down I'm not trying to denigrate anybody but I'm just saying man the money I hear they're throwing around in promises by the way not like they're paying guys there's your contract just you get a contract that says you're going to make a million dollars doesn't mean you're actually going to fight and make a million dollars so we'll see how there's like I was just curious like I'm shocked that didn't read I'm shocked you didn't get drafted and you didn't even know you're on the team I know right but look but ultimately, I hope it works out. You know, I hope that these guys get their paydays.

I hope that this organization becomes something, another option for guys. You know, I hope all the optimist stuff. I hope the best. I think we've just seen this story. You know, we've read into this book a few times. And so we don't have any confidence that it's going to happen. It's going to work out that way.

But I hope it does, right? Maybe these guys will be the ones that change the game for everyone. Get you and your crew to the big shows with Go Transit. Go connects to all the main concert venues like TD Coliseum in Hamilton and Scotia Bank Arena in Toronto. And Go makes it affordable with special e-ticket fairs. A one-day weekend pass offers unlimited travel across the network on any weekend day or holiday for just $10. And a weekday group pass offers the same weekday travel flexibility from $30 for two people and up to $60 for five. Buy yours at gotransit.com slash tickets.

Yeah, hopefully so. Matt Saturday, the UFC goes back to Saudi Arabia, and to their credit, much like the first card, the second card is stacked. You got a massive main event, Israel-A-Dosania. Fighting in a non-title fight in a non-paper-view fight for the first time in like five or six years. I think it's been like 12 fights since he's been in a non-title fight. Taking on Nazarene M-Evov, really interesting fight. I talked to Israel last week. You can see that interview over on MMA Fighting and on MMA Fighting's YouTube page.

He seems like he's in a good place. I'm sure you saw. He was trained with Robert Whitaker. And he said, you know, the article came out today. I asked about the title, what's your relation with the title now? He's like, I never chased the title. That was never my thing. It just kind of came to me.

And I asked about coming off two losses. And he's like, you know, fighting not to lose. And he's like, I don't ever have that mindset. I've never had that mindset. He's like, the only thing that came close to that was when he fought, when he fought Alex Pereira, the third or I guess the second time in the UFC. And he didn't go in there with a can't lose that. He went in there with a must-win attitude.

Like, I have to win this fight. I can't. And so he's like, that was a little different. And obviously we went out there and scored the knockout. But I'm curious, Matt, because at his best, Israel-A-Sahnya, in my opinion, is probably one of the two best middleweights in the world. Andrews de Silva being number one. I put Israel probably number two. But he's off two losses.

Again, not bad loss. He lost to Sean Strickland. That was a big upset. And he lost to Drake as the current champion. But you know how this sport is, man. Like, you know how this sport is. we're prisoners at a moment. When you're on top of the world, you're the best guy in the world. When you lose two in a row, suddenly you're a bum and you're washed up.

And I've seen so many people commenting on that story today saying, it's done for Adisania. He's washed. I'm like, washed. He just lost it to the champion, like seven months ago. So how important is this fight for Israel to go out there and kind of remind the world who he is? Because Imovov is a tough guy, but Imov has never been a top five guy. Like he's not been in that, like, title race yet. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly important for him. I'm sure he knows that very well himself, you know, regardless of what he's saying.

But I've always loved Israel and Asana from the beginning. I've known him since before he was in the UFC when he was fighting in glory. And, you know, his mindset has always been second to none. I've always had a lot of respect for him. And even after he was champion, like I run into him and like he's still the same guy. You know, I really appreciate that. Like such a good dude still down to earth. You know, he comes across like a flashy kind of, I don't know.

know how else to describe it just kind of a flashy guy but you know he's really down to earth and he has a great great mindset for fighting um and like you said it wasn't like he took you know some brutal knockouts or anything either right like you know he lost like the strickland one something seemed a little off um but maybe he's Sean's that you know we've talked about this before you know maybe he's just Sean right maybe he's just a bad matchup whatever it is so i love where Izzy's head is at and I think this is the perfect matchup to see where he's at physically, right? But I think he's there mentally 100%. I love seeing it. But physically, you know, Imavov is a tough guy to go against. So we're going to find out a lot about Izzy and I look

forward to watching it. Here's what I love about this fight, Matt, for a lot of reasons, but this is probably the biggest. And Israel said this to me and I'm not just saying this because I just interviewed him. I agree. I know Israel a little bit. He's always been incredibly nice to me. Good guy. genuine guy, fun guy to talk to. I've always really liked Izzy. But he said that when he came up, you know, when he was coming up, guys like Anderson, guys had to give him a shot. And that's how he made his bones in the UFC was going through guys like that.

He's like, now it's my turn. And I got to fight this guy, give him his chance. But I got to show he's not ready for my level. And I appreciate that because on paper, you could say that he should be fighting, you know, a Hamzot or I'm not saying he needs to rematch Whitaker again. I'm just saying like that top, you know, he's still of that level. Like he's still like, I think Israel's always going to be like one win away for a title shot just because who he is, Israel out of Sonia.

But the fact that Imov is like nine or eight or somewhere in that in the world, he's not like top five. And he's not really, I mean, don't get me wrong. Beating Brandon Allen's a good win. Beating Roman DeLij is a good win. These are all good wins, but they're not. No one's going to say beating Brendan Allen. We get you a title shot right now.

Good win. Not necessarily number one contender. to fight. The fact that he said, when they said Nasreddin Mimov and Adasania didn't blink and didn't say, no, no, I don't want to fight that guy. Give me, give me, you know, give me Hamzaa, give me Wittaker again, give me like one of those top three or four guys. He didn't blink. Okay, give me me, give me Mavov. Oh, you want me to go to Saudi Arabia? Cool. I'll go to Saudi Arabia. You want me to find out on a pay-per-view? All right. That to me,

and again, I can't say what's going to happen in the fight. That to me tells me the Israel's in a killer mindset. He's not fucking around. He's not like, no, no, give me this, I need this. He's just like, I want to get in there, I want to fight, give me a guy. And I think that's, I think that mindset is going to benefit him. And listen, Imov's a monster.

I'm a very, very good. Yeah, yeah. No matter where Adasani is in his prime, you know, whether this would have been in his prime, I don't know if he's still in his prime, but if this were five years ago, like Imovov is still a very, very difficult matchup. But I just

love that mentality about Israel Adasania, right? Like, he's a martial artist. through and through. You know, I think he's in the gym all the time, training, always improving, always getting better. He's got tons of kickboxing fights, did great. And, you know, he's just a competitor.

He just, I think he just loves to compete. Doesn't really care who it's against. And you've got to love that, man. That's what, you know, obviously the UFC loves that. The fans love it. But, you know, what it tells me is he's, he has a good mentality of not letting other people's opinions affect him his mental.

And that's a gigantic thing, especially at the level that he's at where everybody's in his ear, everybody, you know, has an opinion on what he's doing. You know, he's getting pulled left and right all the time. And to be able to just block all that out and stay true to being a martial artist, that's a powerful dude right there. And no matter what you think when you're at that level, when you're at the Israel out of Sonia, Connor McGregor, that kind of level of stardom, I don't care. you don't run your Twitter account, you don't run your Instagram account, someone runs it for you, whatever.

That stuff still seeps through. You know what I mean? Friends send it to you, you walk down the street, someone will tell you something, you hear it. It's impossible to ignore the narrative that goes around that stuff. I'm sure Conner's heard it nonstop, and I'm sure it does bug it when people say you're done and you're never fighting again. And when Israel, when you lose two fights to the current champion and the guy who's about to fight for the title, suddenly you're a bum and you're washed up, which is ridiculous. But whether you seek it out or you ignore it, it does seep through. It always does.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a fact. There's an old saying, you know, exposure leads to contamination, right? And just hearing it, you know, infects your mind in some way or another. And if you hear it enough, whether it's a lie or the truth, it starts to become the truth. Yeah. And I think that, and listen, I want to be clear about this. I'm not in any way, shape, or form taking anything away from Sean Strickland.

having an absolutely brilliant performance against Israel Adasanya back in September of 2023, I think it was. That was an amazing performance. That was all time. Great performance. I'm just saying this is a guy who's watched Izzy his entire career because I remember when Izzy signed with the UFC. Like I wrote an article.

No one knew who Izzy was and I was like jumping up and down excited. He was like Israel Adasania is coming to the UFC. Holy shit. That's because I knew who he was. I think there was an emotional letdown. Coming out of the Pereira fights, you know, that was such a massive rivalry. he got knocked out, he comes back and knocks out the boogeyman, the guy that kind of haunted his career from kickboxing into the UFC.

I'm not saying that he didn't go in there to win. I'm just saying like that's a big emotional letdown to go from that rivalry and into a fight in Sean Strickleck where everyone's like, yeah, you're going to just dance all over this guy. And you're talking about things seeping through. Everyone's telling him, you're going to beat this guy. This guy sucks. He's not on your level.

He shouldn't he be in there with you. Maybe that seeps through. And then I think the drink is, I think the drink is, right. And he said this on his YouTube channel, I brought it up to him in the interview, and it's so true. He's like, Drichus is the greatest shit fighter you've ever seen. Like, he doesn't do things technically right. He's like 10% of the time he does what he's supposed to do, 90% of the time he just fucks around and finds away. That's a really hard style fighter.

Whitaker said that. Whitaker's like, I didn't think it was that good. And out of nowhere he fucking hits me and I'm done. Like, what the fuck happened? Like, that's just Drichus. Like, Drichus is a really hard guy to fight because he doesn't do. He doesn't do technically what you're supposed to do yet. a way to win. That's a weird fight.

So I don't think those are bad losses. So if you ever trained before, anybody that's trained before will relate to this. And you spar with someone that doesn't know what they're doing, but they'll maybe just an athlete or something. Like it absolutely throws you off because you're used to like reacting to certain things a certain way, them reacting a certain way. It's like, Dracus is that beginner. It never got past that, but kept getting better at not being a beginner.

And because, you know, like, you throw a feign at them and, you know, you expect them to react and they don't react. And you're like, like, dude, like, everybody reacts to that except for you or they throw a punch and from an angle. You know, it's just, it's a very weird thing to deal with. And it's really, Drake is just being like, you know, his first day at the gym forever. But just becoming a better athlete and being better at his first day all the time. And it's fascinating to watch. Yeah. But my point is, I don't think either one of those are bad losses,

and we are so hair-trigger in this sport of, like, you win, you're the best ever, you lose, you're a bum. And it's ridiculous. It's the dumbest concept, and I hate it. Oh, for sure, yeah, yeah. But, and just, and not that I don't think I'm hiding the fact here that I'm picking Israel to win this weekend. I think he will win. I think he is still that guy.

Will he get the title back? I don't know. And I don't really know what that matters. He's been there, done that. I think he's all about having fun right now. He seems like he's enjoying himself and he's just kind of getting back in the group of being a martial artist. There's nothing wrong with that. At his best, I still think Israel

Osana is one of the two or three best middleweights in the world. So I'm going to pick him to beat him above. But part of me I don't even know that he cares. I'm saying part of me kind of hopes he does go out there and put on a great performance just because I think he is still that dude and we are just so quick to react. He lost to

the two guys who are about to fight for the title, but somehow that makes him a bum. And it's like, no, dude. And let's not forget, he was doing well in the Drikas fight. It wasn't like he was getting blown out of the water. He was doing okay and then Drickas got him, took him down to the ground, and got the choke on it, but it's not like he was getting absolutely demolished. Now, the Strickland fight, yes, he did kind of lose that one in love sight of fashion.

That wasn't a very close fight. But the Dracus fight wasn't, it was close. And then again, Drichas got him and credits of Drichas for doing what he did. But I just hate this narrative. So it's like, in a way, I'm kind of like, I'm not rooting for him. Again, I don't root for fighters that way. But I hope that he can go out there and just kind of shut some people up because we're so quick in the sport just to, oh, it's Israel.

he's done, he's washed, he's gone. And I'm just like, why? Because he lost the two guys were about to fight for the middleweight title. If he lost to the number 18 guy or he lost to some newcomer, then maybe we can start to, you know, chisel a little bit of a name on his gravestone,

but that's not who he is right now. Yeah, and there's also something to be said about being the underdog and finding ways to push through things. And Izzy hasn't experienced that in forever, right? Like, Strickland experienced that. Obviously, when he went in, He wasn't expected to win.

He had nothing to lose. So, you know, it's a completely different feeling. Dracus, I think, kind of always feels that way. Like, he's probably underdog. Like, he knows that he gets hit too much. I mean, like, he knows that he's probably losing most of the time before he finds away, you know, probably happens to him in sparring all the time. Like, he knows, like, this is his style, right?

He kind of gets beat up along the way of beating you, right? So my point of all that is just that. you know, you can't, like, is he just, like, he's still there, you know? And I think him going back to kind of feeling like he's got something to prove again is going to pay a lot of dividends for him. Because I don't know if he got comfortable. You know, because I just, I don't know his mindset like that, but there's almost no way not to get comfortable.

You know what I mean? Like, it's almost impossible to not get a little bit comfortable. And especially when you're fighting a guy like Strickland, who on paper looks like he's an easy matchup. But we also can't forget, again, and I think we had this discussion right after that fight. I was like, dude, don't take away from Strickland. Like, he's a fucking bad dude.

And honestly, just a, he may just be a poor sapsing matchup for Izzy. Yeah. And we also, it's so funny because we talk about the two losses. His last win was just an absolute brutal knockout over one of the top two pound-for-pound fighters in sport. Alex Pereira. That was his last win. He heard of a had it, whatever was to you. He brutally

knocked out Alex Prayer. Like, he, that's the last loss on Alex's record. And yes, Alex has gone on to do incredible things. But it's like, we almost forget. That was his last win. Now, I know it's a little while ago. It's a couple years ago now, and he's had a couple losses since then. But like, it's not like he's that far removed from going out there and knocking out the guy that everyone is putting on their shoulders and

saying he's the best thing going today, right? And rightfully so, by the way, Alex is that good. But let's not forget. That was his last win. And he knocked him dead in the dirt. So let's just not pretend. Let's not so shoveling dirt on his grave just yet, I guess is what I'm getting. Sure, sure. Stiles

make fights, bro. Him and Alex fought, they know each other's style. So styles make fights. Yeah. Let me ask you real quick before we get out of here. The other big fight on this card, Sharup Bullet taking on Michael Venn and Page. Michael Venn and Page going up to middleweight. Listen,

I sound terrible. I feel bad saying this. every time I've ever talked to Michael Vindam Page, he's like the nicest guy in the world. I like talking to Michael Vennon Page. He's a good dude. Always seemed like a good dude. He's a fun fighter. But I never quite jumped on the bandwagon with him

because when he was in Bellator, so many times they just kept feeding him guys that he was going to beat. And he did. He styled on him and beat him. When he got to better competition, he had some struggles here and there. But again, he came in, fought in the UFC, he beat Kevin Holland,

had a very close fight with Ian Gary. But I don't know that I'm, I love him going up to middleweight because Sharra bullet that dude is scary as fuck as a striker. I don't know. We've seen him struggle a little bit of the wrestling and things like that. But dude, when you can throw a spinning back fist and then you come out and say, oh, we practice that. A double spinning back fist.

Excuse me. Throws one, throws the other one, knocks the guy out. This dude, like when it comes to striking, Sharma bullet's a nasty dude. Now, I don't know maybe if he fights a wrestler, maybe we'll find out there's different, you know, a different story with him. But, dude, I don't love this for Michael Vint. and Page. Maybe he goes out there and styles on him and it's spectacular, but dude, Sharibullet hits like a truck and he's a legit middleweight. I don't know that I love this move

for Michael Ben and Page. Yeah, I don't know how big MVP it is or I don't know the, I don't even know his height or anything, you know, I either seems like a little bit of a taller guy, but if it stays on the feet, which is almost guaranteed, it stays on the feet, right? you know as long as he can handle the power i don't think it's going to play a huge role like both these guys are speed guys tricky um elusive you know fast right and it's going to come down to who is a little bit faster a little bit trickier and finds those little spots and that's what's going to make it such an interesting fight right and and i think they're both really good at fighting guys of the style of the other guy, right?

So, yeah. So, but I, I know exactly what you're saying. On paper, like, it doesn't make sense, right? Going up to 1-85, fighting a guy who's surging, like, shower bullet, like, what kind of win streak is he on? Three or four. I mean, he's undefeated. He's undefeated.

I think he's like four or five wins in the UFC. So, yeah, he's, I mean, he's a bad dude. Yeah, and just looking really good doing it. it doesn't it doesn't add up a lot to me for either of them honestly right like mechlevin and page going up and even getting the fight and sharp bullet taking the fight from a guy coming up so it doesn't make a lot of sense but yeah i mean you got to assume the sharp bullet's got a huge edge in this like you said with the weight but which again may not come into play though yeah i know you i listen you are you know you know everything about mixed martial

arts from wrestling to grappling but of course we all know you love the striking you love the striking you love the boy tie we love the strike can i ask you like do you get do you get enjoyment watching a guy like sharer bullet go out there because he is so creative and so much fun to watch like his kicks are nasty he's got nasty kicks and it kind of reminds me a little bit of early days like edson barbosa when edson went throw those wheel kicks and like we didn't see guys throw wheel kicks when he was doing it when he's knocking out terriette i'm like knocking char a bullet throwing that double spinning back fist like when it happened when he fought his last fight. I didn't even see it until the

replay. I was like, what the fuck just happened? He threw it so quick. He doubled it up and I was like, what happened? And then he showed the replay where he literally spun one way, spun the other way, knocked him out. I was like, oh my God. I just love watching this dude fight. Yeah, I agree, man. I love watching him too.

I guess there's kind of like two different ways to look at. Like I love it as a fight what I love generally what I love the most, like the beauty of Muay I like the beautiful technique when you watch like a boo-a-cow and guys like that where everything's just perfect and it's hitting hard, they're standing strong. So it's kind of two different things.

But like, bro, we love fighting. So yeah, I fucking love watching it. And it's a very unique style. And I love this matchup. Again, I don't know why either one of them took the fight or why the UFC made it, like what the purpose of it necessarily was. But it's going to be funer in hell, bro. So maybe they just made it for it.

that, right? It's going to be fun. And dude, you know what? And here's what I'll say about Michael Vennon Page. I said, I don't love this move for him. But you know what I do love. This guy, no, listen, he did take a lot. And by the way, not his fault. Like, when you're in Bellator, you can't tell them who to give you. Like, they're going to give you, so you're going to fight who they put in front of you. But what I love about Michael Vennam Page is like when he got the chance to make some decisions in his career, he got, I mean, dude, he went to bare knuckle and fought Mike Perry, remember? He went to fault Mike Perry. Into the fifth round in a and he had to go to a six round, he lost a very, very close fight to Mike Perry in bare knuckle.

And Mike Perry is like second bare knuckle fight. Don't forget about that. Like he went over, he didn't have to do that. He accepted a challenge from Mike Perry to step into bare knuckle. He did it. You know, again, like I don't like this fight for him mostly because he's going up. He was a long, lanky, welterweight. I don't think he's going to be able to pack on enough size to be a true middleweight

against a guy in Sharra Bullitt who's probably going to walk into the, I mean, we saw it at UFC 311. I don't know if he saw the weights or not, like, Reiner de Ritter when he beat Kevin Holland. He weighed like 212 pounds and Kevin Holland weighed 190. Like he's 22 pounds heavier. Now, I'm not saying that played the biggest factor in the fight, but like, I think that's kind of what we're going to see here.

Sharra Bullets is going to be like 220 pounds, and Michael Vintapage is probably going to be like 190. Yeah, and we'll see if that plays a factor, Greg, because again, I think it's going to be a lot more distance striking and kicking. but it could play a factor and that sometimes too there's a little bit of power differences right from already powerful fast guys

so it might be interesting to see if you know Shar Bullitt uses that advantage of having the weight and may push him against the cage a little bit maybe go for a take down you know just wear them out just a little bit to make your striking battle

even just a little bit easier you know it is MMA like why not but he doesn't come across to me like the type of guy to do that so I'm not anticipating it but I think you should I mean I just

like I said man I give I give MVP all the credit because again MVP asked for this he did he asked for this he's like I want sharp bullet yeah he's a warrior for sure good good dude awesome awesome I love to see it but I don't love it for him is what I'm getting at like I just

yeah yeah yeah like if I'm his manager I don't I don't I don't pursue this if I'm his manager right yeah like I like I like I wouldn't love it right now, Sharbole. It's like, give me Hamzaa Shemaya. That would probably not be a fight.

I'd say he's quite ready for that yet. Will he get there? Maybe, you know what I mean? Maybe he will. But like, Homzat's an incredible wrestler. Probably not that matchup just yet. Eventually, a couple of fights down the road. That's kind of how I feel like Michael Min and Paige.

Like, dude, give him Wonderboy. Give him, you know, give him others. Give him Jeff Neal. I think that could be a fun fight. Give him, you know. But I just don't love him going up to them. interesting because there is a lot of options out there for him. It's not like there's a short of options at 170.

So it's a pretty interesting take going up to 185. And I'm big on Sharbole. I don't know if the guy's going to be a champion, but man, is he fun to watch? He is so much fun to watch. He hits like a truck. And again, he's legit middleweight. And like I said, when I talked to Ryder to Ritter after that fight, I asked him, I said, did you see the weight?

He basically was like, he needs to be a welterweight. That's what he said to Kevin Holland. He's like, he needs to be a welterweight. It's true. Like I said that. When I saw the weight disparity, I was like, oh my God,

I was like, I love you, Kevin, but you should probably be at Welterweight. Like, you probably need to stick at Welterweight.

And I think that's, I think that's kind of, I feel about MVP. Like, he's a great fighter, but I think Walterway is probably a little better for him and going up and fighting a monster

like Charle bullet at 185. Yeah, it makes sense. And like being there live when, what's his name, the Ritter Fah, I mean, it was a clear difference.

I don't know how it looked on TV, but live, it was like, dude like this dude's two different weight classes for sure yeah you can there are those fights like after they rehydrate you're like yeah are they had the same weight class because this doesn't look right and that's kind of what it looked like with them like when he took kevin holland down he like dwarfed Kevin holland like he like enveloped by him and I was like oh my god and again like striking's a little different obviously you're not maybe again maybe you're right charr you know

maybe push him in his cage bullies a little bit try to wear him down but if it's just a striking battle that is interesting because you know MVP's a very long lanky guy He's obviously very creative striker. I just, if it's just a stand-up fight, there's not going to be a lot of guys right now at 185 that I'd be like, yeah, you're going to take out Sharblellet on defeat. Can you beat him in other ways? Sure.

But just a pure striking contest, I think that's a dangerous game to play. And I'm high on Sharbleut, man. I love watching that guy fight. Yeah, well, it's definitely going to be an interesting one. There's going to be a lot of creative techniques going through. Unless, again, if you're Sharb bullet, you push him against the cage and, you know, get ahead on the score cards and make him get a little desperate or something.

But, you know, what I anticipate is sort of an old, I was a Chuck Norrisley, WKC or something. I kind of anticipating it looking like that a little bit, right? And it's going to be fun. So I'm going with Israel and Shar Bullitt on Saturday. Are you going with the same? I definitely go with Sharbullet. And, yeah, I think Israel should be able to get it done.

You know, M-Avob, man, is not an easy battle. Again, I think even in, you know, Izzy at his absolute peak, you know, it's not going to be easy. So I think this could be an interesting one, but I'm going to go with Izzy every time, though. Yeah, I'm going to Izzy as well. But I'm with you, man. I'm a lot of all-law's a real deal, man. He's a tough dude, great striker, good all-around fighter, super tough. But I just, I have, like I said, I have a hard time picking against Izzy.

Like I said, I just, you know, there's just something about him. Like I said, I mean, you know, I don't know if he rematch Jerkus. Would I pick him to be Jerry? I think I'm done picking against Drick because at this point. I can't do it anymore because I'm just like, he doesn't do it right and he just finds a way to win. So I don't know that I pick him in a rematch, but right now.

Well, that's something I tell to all my fighters or people I train in the gym or even new people. You know, they're like, what's the right way to do this? And I'm like, well,

did it land? Yeah, okay, then it was right. Yeah. I did you, I think you said to me one time, he said something about technique,

like, did I do it the right way? And you said, the right way is what works. right like the right way is what works yeah exactly yeah if it like your ideas to punch them in the face and you punched them in the face then how am i go who am i to say that you did it wrong yeah yeah you're right you're absolutely right like i said not again technique matters and knowledge like that absolutely matters but if you got a way it works for you and it works it certainly works for dracus

because the guy well technique is for you know the most efficient way to do it so that you can last through the uh you know the 12 rounds of boxing or you know five rounds of vans you know MMA, you know, it's for efficiency, you know, and the biggest thing, though, and this is where I worry the most about Dracus is, you know, when that reactions and toughness and stuff, those things start fading before the technique fades, right? And now when you start getting up 35, 40 plus years old, that shit doesn't work no more. So you need to have that technique to fall back on. Yeah. And that's where I worry about him. You know, as he ages, you know, it could be a big problem for him.

Like, he may, could be wrong, but, you know, I would anticipate, you know, a fast drop-off. You know, when it starts falling, like, it's going to fall hard. I don't worry as much about the Strickland fight, because the first fight was close, but I still think, like, I'm not trying to ruin our preview show next week, but, like, I was still favorite drink. I guess the one that would worry me more is the Hamza fight, because, like, that's an interesting one. Yeah, it's just, it's interesting, so we'll have to wait. But we'll see. Like I said, man, Strickland, you know, Strickland, every time I think that guy's not going to do it, he doesn't, so you never know. We'll talk about that next week, though.

Matt, if people want to check you out, support you, where can they find you? At I'm immortal Instagram and Twitter, the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. Yeah, and at the Immortal Coffee on Twitter and Instagram also. There you go. Obviously, we want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes in the show. Make sure you check us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple, podcast, Spotify, and of course, I run the best website in the world. MMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin.

We will see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Fox Media Podcast Network.