MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown on Leon Edwards vs. Sean Brady, Who Should Get Islam Makhachev Next and the UFC to Netflix?

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin preview UFC London with Leon Edwards coming back against Sean Brady, plus we debate who should get the next shot at UFC lightweight champion Islam Makhachev and should the UFC consider getting rid of pay-per-view with the next TV deal? All that and more. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the writer. I am Damon. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And currently he's knocking heads and drinking Guinness in Ireland. I don't know if you're actually doing that or not, but you're actually in Ireland right now, Matt.

I am in Ireland. I'm not drinking Guinness, though. No, no Guinness. Yeah, I'm not a beer guy. Not a big drinker, to be honest, but especially not beer. I never really understood the fascination with beer. Like, if I want to feel a buzz, like I just take a little bit of whiskey, you know, and then I don't feel like a fat ass, you know.

I like I like beer. I'm not a big Guinness guy, though. So I guess there's a, you know, both. size of it. I'm not a big Guinness guy, but I do like a good beer. So, but I saw you over there looking at, looking at castles and doing seminars. How's Ireland treating you? Oh, it's awesome, man. Have you ever been here? I have not. It's actually kind of depressing to me. My family's from Ireland. I've never been

there. Oh, wow. Okay. Man, this place is amazing. You know, I've traveled all over the world, been so many places. This is definitely one of my favorite places I've ever been. And like, I don't know if I would, you know, if I'd be lasting, you know, like you can always go to the beach and it's still cool, right? But the beach, you know, it's like you chill, right? Or, you know, most places just kind of relaxing. When I go to when I've been traveling these castles and seeing the history and just the vibe, man, like the, there's like an energy that you feel, you know. And, you know, it makes you feel like you're just, you're in a different world, man. and I'm loving that.

It's been really cool. The people here are awesome, man. Everybody's been so nice and so fun. So, yeah, this has been an awesome trip, man. The gyms have been great. People treat me well. I couldn't be happier. So I know next I'm going to Marcia, France, which I don't know if I've, I've never heard

of Marcia, France. But from everything I've heard so far, like, it's the most ghetto place in France. So it's going to be interested. go there but I'm sure it's going to be awesome. I'm sure there's going to be some great fighters and we'll have a great time, you know. Yeah, it's interesting, you know, the old Irish American exchange, it's funny, you're in Ireland today and Connor McGregor is over here in the United States meeting at the White House. So, you know, we had to exchange relations, you know, it's one of our best Ireland.

They send one back over here the United States, you know, so. Yeah, they sent their best to Ireland to me. Yeah, little did they know you're meeting with the, little do they know you're meeting with the prime minister later. So, you know, it's just a secret meeting between you and the Irish prime minister. I'm not interested in meeting any political motherfuckers personally.

Oh, man. It's funny. You're actually, you're in Ireland right now and the UFC's actually going to London this weekend. Leon Edwards taken on Sean Brady in the main event, Jan Blahovich, making his return to action against Carlos Olberg, Gunner Nelson, who I love, by the way,

who just seems to pop up like every year and a half to two years and fights. Like, he just fights and disembats. and disappears again and comes back. He's taking on Kevin Holland. It's a pretty decent card, at least at the top. It's not the greatest card below that, but the first couple of fights are pretty good.

Yeah, I think those are all pretty intriguing fights, particularly Brady and Edwards, which is why it's the main event, the biggest names, and, you know, some implications there, right? We got Leon, you know, coming back from losing the title. Brady's been working towards the title, so I think it's a big implication. And that's a very interesting matchup, you know, how that plays out, right? Leon's been notoriously difficult to take down.

And, you know, is a sniper on the feet. Sean Brady seems to be able to pull it out. He's one of the strongest guys out there pound for pound, it seems like, and obviously a killer submission game. So I think that's a very interesting matchup. One thing that you always say on this show, and I appreciate you bringing this up, Matt. We talk about, like, the winning and losing fighter.

whenever we saw, like we, we, we, as an industry, you know this is true, we have a tendency when a guy loses to look for excuses like, why do he lose? He couldn't stop a takedown. He was struggling on the stand-up. And one thing you constantly say on this show, and I always give you credit for, and you're absolutely right, just like we talked about with Pereira and Magamad Ancolaev. Instead of saying, what did Pereira do wrong? You said, we got to give credit to Maga-Man Ankelaiab.

Like, he went in there with a great game plan. He fought great. He did all the good things. And every single time we say that, like you got to stop, we got to stop taking credit away from the guy who won because he did the work to get it done. Now, I don't know how much you've heard, but in the lead-up to Leon Edwards' return, you know, he's talked a lot about the Bilal Muhammad fight. You know, he said he's fighting at 30, 40%, 40%, the time difference, he fought it like 5 a.m.

in the morning. And I get all that. Those are all legitimate, I get it. Those are all legitimately things that could mess with you. I'm not discounting what he's saying. But in a way, it sounds like, well, hold on, didn't Bilal deal with those same issues? Like, he had to fight a 5 in the morning. He had to, I'm not, this is not, I like Leon Edwards, by the way, very much.

I'm actually supposed to talk to Leon Edwards tomorrow. How do you react? Because this happens all this. It's not just Leon. I know I'm singling out Leon because he's fighting this weekend. But he's talking. He feels like he's bummed about losing to Bilau. And it sounds like, you know, he's like, I was not myself that night.

But does that, that just discount what Bilau did? Well, I mean, you know, Leon being the champion and losing, of course he's going to discount what Belaw did. So, yeah, there's nothing. He, you know, he's looking for. answers is so why did he lose? And obviously that's what he's chalking it up to, at least publicly, you know, maybe in private, there's other things. But I think it's a legitimate answer, you know, for him. And yeah, maybe Belaw had to deal with the same thing. But, you know, it had Belal lost, maybe he would have used the same excuse, right? Or, you know, I'm not even calling an excuse,

you know, like use the same reasoning. So, yeah, you know, I don't think that's a, it's kind of a nothing burger, you know, but, but, you know, what I understand where Leon's coming from, too, especially, you know, being in his home country, right? Like, he's certainly like accustomed to a certain rhythm, a routine of sleeping and waking. Belal coming from another country, like, is kind of, how would you, I'm not sure how you'd explain it. Like, you know, there's some excitement and something, you know, everything's new. You know, the time's, zone is new. Like you're going to be adjusting to the time zone regardless. So I don't know. I guess I could see it a little bit. But, you know, we're right on track with

the same thing we always say that you were just alluding to. Like you can't take away from Ballot. I mean, he's done amazing and he fought amazingly in that fight. And it's part of being a fighter. You know, you have to deal with shit like that. You know, things like that have thrown me off in the past too 100% during fights and I know it I don't necessarily say it publicly um but it is factual like it does happen but that's being a fighter I remember uh John Fitch one time right he was a swing fight remember when they used to have swing bouts back in the day oh yeah you know and he was and he warmed up like four or five times and ended up going on after the main event you know that's part of competing.

Like you have to be able to adjust and you got to perform no matter what happens. And that's part of being a warrior. Not saying Leon's not a warrior, but, you know, that's, uh, Belaw was a better warrior that night. There's part of me that, like, applauds Leon for his honesty, if that's actually what happened. You know what I mean? Because sometimes we ask that for fighters, right? Like if I ask a fighter what went wrong and they just, you know, him and Haw and, oh, you know, it was an off night and I just didn't win or whatever.

And then, you know, year later you find out they were fighting with a torn ACL or something. You're like, well, hold on. Why didn't you just say that? Like, I'm not saying, you know, because they don't want to make excuses. But again, that's the slippery slope, right? Like, we can applaud Leon for being honest and saying I was not at my best. The time difference mess with me, so on and so forth. But then the flip side of that is it does sound like excuses, right?

So it's like it's a slippery slope. Well, that's exactly it, right? There's always a reason why you lose, right? Whatever that reason is. There's a reason. When you speak it out loud, it's an excuse. No matter what it was, right? Like it doesn't, there's just no way around that.

It becomes an excuse. And, you know, some people get, I guess maybe not 100% of time, right? John Jones, you know, lost to Matt Hamill, right? You know, right? I guess there's exceptions to every rule. But, but yeah, it's, you know, you don't. You just don't speak it out loud, in my opinion, you know. And believe me, I've, speaking of just, I'm not trying to make it about myself, you know,

but speaking on my own experience, I mean, every loss I've ever had, I could give you legitimate reasons why it happened. Like, there's very few where I was like, you know, you walk away and you're like, okay, the guy was simply better than me. You know, there's reasons that go. to every time. Like, you know that you could have done it. Yeah.

And this is... When you say it out loud, it's excuse. Yeah, and that's what I said. I, like, one part of me says I applaud Leon for being honest. The other part of me says, but no matter what you say, it sounds like an excuse, you know what to me. And to me, the thing I don't like about it, and when I talk to Leah, the thing that I hate, the thing I hate when this happens is it sounds like you're diminishing what

Bilal did, or whoever. not him specifically but and that's the other problem because it's like well hold on below did a great job like he had a great fight he fought you know he fought great that night he won the title let's just give credit where credit us do and that's the own that's that's that's my side of it where i just get a little bummed out when that happens because i'm just like it takes away from below and i'm like how to below did a great job you know what i know listen there are definitely examples where guys will say hey i was dealing with this or that but you know what doesn't matter i didn't win that night you know what i mean you got to be your

best on your worst night right so that's kind of like the thing that's I know I've a million fighters say that. You've got to be your best on your worst night. Yeah. And the fact is, again, you know, you can word at however you want when you bring it up. It's an excuse. And there is, again, there is legitimate reasons a lot of times why you lost that were not just simply because the guy was better. But you just, you don't say anything about.

But, you know, the interesting thing, I remember reading a sports psychology book once and what they had, one of the, things I remember it stuck with me for a long time. I read this like over 20 years ago. One thing that stuck with me, what he talked about was how the greatest athletes always blame. I'm trying to remember exactly how he said. Like they don't take the blame on themselves. Like they always believe that, you know, it was some bullshit that caused the loss. Right. And I think he used Michael Jordan as an example when, you know, he didn't have a good match or whatever or a good game. You know, he would say something like, you know, it was the, you know, my teammates didn't keep up with me or, you know, something like that. I'm not quoting it properly, but I found that very

interesting. And I've always kind of kept that in mind. And I'm not sure how true it is, but it's something to think about, right? When you look at these higher level guys and, you know, they're not always taking the blame. And I've always been. the type where I believe, you know, I need to take the blame myself, right? And I need to figure out what I need to do. So there's a little bit, you know, there's a little bit of battle there. I'm not sure what the proper way is on that. So maybe I need to read that book again and see how I feel about it now.

Yeah. It's interesting, though, because, you know, when you come out of a title fight and a loss, when I talked to Bilal afterwards and I asked Bilau, I said, do you think you'll ever see Leon again? He said, I don't think I will. For any number of reasons, you know, obviously it wasn't, know, wasn't, in my opinion, that close to a fight. Bilal dominated the vast majority of that fight.

And, you know, Bilal's got other challenges. He's taken on Jack Del and Madalana. You'd have to imagine Shabkat Rachmanoff is probably the other guy out there. So it's a big moment for Leon because, you know, Sean Brady is a little lower in the rankings. You know, Sean has that loss to Bilal. He got knocked out by Bilal a couple years ago. But since then, he's looked incredibly. He's in a high, high level grappler, dangerous, nasty wrestler, similar-ish style to Bilow.

Not the same, but similar-ish style. And Leon's fighting at home again. Leon cannot lose this. I mean, that's, you know, and Leon's not a young guy. It's 35, I think, something like that. So nothing's ever do or die. I know we taught we use that word a lot, that phrase a lot in this sport. But if Leon wants to get back to the title, he cannot lose to Sean Brady at home.

It's just absolutely not. It's like a must win. Every fight's a must win in some way. But he does not want to lose this fight. Yeah, I was going to say, it's not a do or die, but there is huge implications in this fight. Right. Like Leon has a long road ahead if he ends up losing this fight. And the same for Brady, right?

Like, you know, he's going to probably, if he loses this fight, he's probably going to be looked at as a great fighter that never got to the title. You know, one of those guys, kind of like myself, I guess. But, you know, one of those guys, he'll kind of be in that category, I think. You know, he won't be expected to get to the title. But, you know, just opposite if they win, right? either one that wins, they're definitely knocking on the door.

And we know how this game is. You know, you could end up getting a title fight at any time. But also, you got to think they'd be in at least a title contender match, you know, after a win here, I think, right? Wouldn't you agree with that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you look at the lay in the land of division.

I mean, like I said, you got Shabcat, obviously just getting the title shot. Then you look below that. I mean, you know, I mean, Ian Gary's coming off a loss, you know, guys like that. I mean, you know, I think they're in that conversation. So, yeah, I think it's absolutely right there. And Brady's been on a good run since losing to Bilal.

Beating Leon Edwards will be massive for him because, you know, he didn't just lose the Blal. He got knocked out. So to get a rematch for a title, he's going to have to do something special, right? You can't just win, especially when you already have a definitive loss to the current champion. You've got to go out there and earn it. Yeah. That's why.

I think that's why it took Leon so long to get back to Kumar Usman. Even though he lost to Usman years ago, it wasn't. a great fight. Usman took him down and kind of controlled him and it just wasn't a compelling performance and say, man, I want to see this again. So it almost felt like Leon had to work doubly hard to get back there. When he did, he made the most of the opportunity, but that's

kind of where Brady's at. Like, he's got to go out there and make a statement against Leon Edwards. Like he did against, you know, he had a real strong performance against Gilbert Burns. He's got to do that against Leon Edwards in this car because again, he didn't have this fight two months ago. He was not fighting this fight. This was Jack Della Madelan's fight. And so

that's a big moment for Sean Brady too. Now, I got a question for you. Has Leon Edwards had probably one of the toughest runs in the UFC? Just, you know, when you look at the guys he's fought against, how many fights he had to get to get to the title, and then, you know, beating Usman and now, you know, fighting Sean Brady, you know, which are both stylistic nightmares for him. You know, you've got to lean towards Brady in this, right,

because of the stylistic nightmare. But, you know, the way he fought against Usomah last time, you'd be like, well, maybe he could do it, right? Like, this is, this is like, this is like five grapplers in a row. He had Uspen back to back. Then he had, then he had Covington, then he had Bilau. And now he's got Sean Brady. Like, are we just going to throw him into a bone nickel next?

Like, what's going on? Right, right. That's what I said. Like, I feel like maybe, you know, name wise, I mean, he's definitely. fought a lot of the top guys. But when you look at, you know, stylistically, he has to have had one of the tougher runs in the UFC. I mean, I know Ballal's had a very tough road.

Marab, you know, there's a lot of guys out there for sure. But Leon's got to be up there with those guys where he's like he has not had an easy road in the UFC at all. And you also got to remember how much the pandemic fucked Leon Edwards. Like he had that fight with Tyron Woodley in London. number one could have been at that time Woodley was the right there yeah it's just it's just

he had like the worst timing with that when the pandemic hit like he got screwed probably harder than almost anybody during the pandemic because you know he lost that big main event then he didn't get scheduled then he got COVID had that Comzat thing go on both them got COVID I mean it was like the worst run in the world and

again and legitimately when he got that knockout over you know Kumar Usman you know he's down basically three rounds to one going that fifth round you know his coach just yelling at him. Don't let him bully you suddenly. He goes out there, he gets a knockout. Great story. But like I said, man, stories are short-lived in this sport sometimes. He got to celebrate the Camaro. I mean, he's celebrated with Camaro, beat Camaro in the rematch,

beats Colby Covington. Maybe not the greatest fight in the world, but he's on top of the world, and then boom, Bilal Bahama comes in there and kind of reigns on his parade. So that's just the nature of this beast. And it's a big chance for him to get back on that horse. If he can beat or knockout, you know, a guy like Sean Brady, he says a lot that he's, you know, maybe he was right. Maybe he really was a 30 or 40% that night. And then the flip side of that is, is if he loses, as you said, it's a long road to get back there again.

Yeah. Yeah, and he better be 100% against Sean Brady because, man, Sean Brady, like I said, it's just, I think he's a nightmare matchup for him. And his striking has got good, too. You know, he's got good power for sure, right? He has really good power in his hands. But I feel like, you know, we've seen his striking develop and he's really gotten sharper and sharper over the years and learning how to use that power.

And when you're constantly worried about the takedown, that that striking can make a big difference. Yeah, 100%. And now another great story in this card, of course, too, Jan Blahovic coming back from a long layoff, shoulder injuries, surgeries, he's taking a young gun in Carlos Oldberg. And I talked to Jan right after this fight got made. And, you know, he's honest. He's like, you know, people forget, you know, you have a couple of fights.

You're out for a while and people forget. And I think people forget, like he had that razor close fight with Alex Pereer. he went to draw with Magermanic Goliath. I mean, there's a world if he could go out there and knock out Carlos Olberg, which that's a tough test to take, because Carlos has looked great lately, but Blahovich is like, people just kind of discounted Yon Blahubovic.

It's like he actually gave both the champion and the last champion their toughest fights recently. Like, he fought Ankleid up to a draw. He, he did, listen, I know he argues he beat Perey. I thought he lost the fight, but he did mall him in that first round, then he kind of ran out of gas, but he didn't get finished.

He didn't get knocked out by Alex Pereer. So big moment for Yon here too. Yeah, Yon is definitely a sleeper like always, right? Like he's not the guy that, you know, you expect to be. I remember watching him, you know, when he early days of the UFC or when, or when the early days for him in the UFC. And, you know, I don't think anybody was like, yeah, he's the next champion, you know. And, you know, I wouldn't say he's overachieved, but, you know, I think he's exceeded all

expectations that any of us have put on him. He's kind of always that sleeper. And, you know, he's not, like I said, he's not going to be an easy fight for anyone. All around great skills. And, yeah, it's going to be an interesting fight too, right? Because, like, Carlos is going to be the hungry guy, right? He's the one coming up. You know, this is a big opportunity for him.

So, man, this could be a real fucking banger. You know, this could be one of those sleeper fights, too, that ends up way much more of a banger than we're anticipating. 100%. 100%. Yeah. And then, like I said, Gunner Nelson kind of coming out of hiding again. to go out and fight Kevin Holland.

Boy, I tell you what, talking about Kevin Holland, man. They're like, hey, you fought Ryder to Ritter at Middleway. Now go fight one of the best grapplers on the planet in Gunner Nelson. So credit to Kevin Holland for stepping up and taking another tough fight. But yeah, sneaky good fights on this card. Yeah, that's a fascinating, you know, every fight. I feel like the first thing I say is, man, that's an interesting fight. You know, because every fight's interested.

But, yeah, I think it would be interesting to see how they go. on the feet and on the ground, right? Like, because, like, Kevin's no souch on the ground. We know Gunner's really good on the ground, but Kevin is pretty fucking good, too. And, yeah, that karate style with Gunner, like, you just never know what you're going to get from that, right? And Kevin, you know, he fought Wonderboy, right?

So he has some experience with this style. It's like, you know, I guess I'm interested in how he approaches this fight. you know what it Kevin doesn't come across like a big game playing strategy guy right but I'll be interested to how he approaches it and kind of how it plays out you know and like you said

Gunner kind of just shows up every few years and it comes out and you know puts on pretty good shows most of the time but here he is again it's a tough guy and Kevin yeah absolutely so yeah not a bad car UFC London this weekend also got the NCAA wrestling championship

this weekend, which I know I'll be watching. Gable Steveson going for another NCAA title, so it should be a good time watching that. And then obviously, listen, we're kind of like you, we're kind of a bit of a law here where we don't, you know, our next big card is until April 12th. UFC, that's such a card.

UFC 314 is so huge. But there are other hot topics, things going on in the sport. And I want to bring this up to you, Matt, because there's been a lot of discussion lately because we haven't heard an announcement about international fight week. We haven't heard an announcement about a couple title fights. I think everyone knows that middleway.

we're going to get Dracus and Hamzot. Everyone now knows that heavyweight, if they're going to make a heavyweight title fight, it's going to be John Jones, Tom Asplano, especially after Alex lost. That whole thing is done. It's going to be John and Tom. The one big question we don't have answered, though,

is who is going to fight Islam O'Makacha? Because obviously he won his fight in January. Again, unfortunate the way it played out, but he played the cards that are dealt to you and he beat Hainano-Oycano. Armin Sarukin has been told he needs to win another one. Charles Oliva is out there saying, I'm the number one guy.

I should get a title shot. You got Ily Tuporia coming in now. And he's like, hey, I'm the former champion. Give me the title shot. Justin Gachie goes out there and beats Hafeel Fazeve and says, hey, man, I'm here. Give me the title shot. So you got legitimately four guys. You could make an argument right now for four guys in this division who could get a

title shot. Now, I'm not saying any four right or wrong, but you could make a legitimate argument for all four of those guys. So I'm asking you, Matt Brown, if you are Joe Silva, I still love using Joe Silva's name, or you're Sean Shelby or whoever the hell is matchmaking here. Who gets the title? I'm not saying who deserves it. I'm saying who do you give it to? I give it to Ilya.

Give it to Ilya. And we've talked about it. Look, in Islam, you know, he'll give resistance to that. He'll try not to have that be the fight and rightfully enough, you know, I think he should. But I don't feel like anybody has done anything. anybody else has done anything significant to be like, you know, just clear, right? Like, well, that's why there's four of them that we're talking about, right? Because no one has stuck out so much that you're like, okay, this guy should get the fight.

So I say give the opportunity to Ilya, let him go see if it works for him. if it does then you have a even a more ginormous star in ilia if it doesn't then islam keeps his run going and other guys can fight their way or you know work their way see how everything plays out and they can work their way in there because those guys aren't going anywhere you know you know they'll still be around and be able to get title fights later in the meantime like they give the opportunity to I don't know if I'd say biggest star in the sport, but he'd be right up there if he beats Islam, right? You know, I mean, what or what?

Like Volcanowski Holloway and Islam? I mean, that's, you know, he's in the greatest ever discussion at that point. You take Connor out of the discussion. He's not fighting right now. Conner's the biggest star. We all know Connor's the biggest star. Let's take him out of the conversation right now because he's not fighting right now. if Ilya Tupori could beat Islam Ocacchah, he's the biggest star in the sport.

Done. I mean, John Jones would be the only other guy you could argue, and when he fights Tom Aspinall, that will be a massive, massive fight. But Iliu's a pori would be the guy. Like, he would be the biggest star in the sport outside of John Jones. I'll give John his credit because John still sells fights. I'll be a massive superstar. Now, I'm not arguing with you to, like, that is the biggest fight.

Iliot Tepore is the biggest fight because Ilya is already a star. I mean, Ilya's already. Like Spain, Georgia, obviously what he did to Volcanozkin Holloway. Listen, my argument is this. I still, I know it's not the one. I don't think it's the one's going to happen. That's the problem. I still think it should be Armus-Saurukian.

He's legitimately the guy, and I understand the back injury. And back then in January, when this whole thing happened, I said, you know what? I'm okay with him getting another fight because like it or not, man, you did kind of mess up. I know, you got injured. It happens, but you kind of blew the UFC's plans. And when that happens, they're not generally going to be like, oh, let's just do it again. So I understand, I'm going back on what I said back then, but just look at the lay of the land. Armin is the toughest matchup.

Armin is the guy who's actually earned it with victories in the octagon. He has a winner with Charles. You know, and again, I love Charles, but, you know, Charles losing to him and then beating Chandler. I mean, great win, but I don't know that I should leapfrog him over Surukian. And I love Justin Gachie. And I always say, like, dude, timing and opportunity works, but I don't think they're rushing to get Islam back. in there right now and I don't think Gagey needs to fight right away anyway. So, like, if I'm put in my hierarchy, I'd go Armin, probably Ilya and then Charles and then Justin just because like where

they're out in the division. But to me it's still Armin, but I'm being realistic and saying, I don't think they're going to give it to Armin because I think they're going to make him fight Gagee or they're going to make him fight somebody to get back in there because of what happened in January. So you may be right. Like that may just end up being the matchup because the UFC loves to make big fights, there is no bigger fight a lightweight than Ilya versus than Islam. Yeah, and look, you know, if I'm the UFC, I would say Armand doesn't necessarily need to fight in the meantime.

Like, Armand, you're the next guy. You get to fight the winner of Ilya and Islam. But we go, but we put Ilya and Islam together. Again, Islam, if he wins, you know, is not, not going to diminish him in any way. obviously on a win. But if Ilya wins, now we have, you know, there's so much upside there. We have such a big star now, so much upside, such a great champion. So, yeah, Armand just wait your turn, bro. Like, we'll keep you in the back. And look, if one of these guys gets hurt,

you can be the guy. Now, I know Armine's already been out for a while, but look, it's like, okay, you got your back got injured. Like, keep healing that thing up and wait for your opportunity. You know, there's no reason. I don't think Armid needs to necessarily fight another guy in the meantime. And I know it's going to keep him on the sidelines for longer than he wants to, longer than is necessary. But, you know, sometimes that's just the way of the world, right? Yeah.

But I'd say, give, you know, put him on the sidelines, say, you're the next guy. Put Ily and Islam in there. But let's make a gigantic fight and with with the most upside, you know, if I'm the UFC. So now here's the question, Matt. And again, this is kind of, I think this is why it's such an interesting question about that fight. How much of a shot do you give Ilya to beat Islam? Because when it came to Armin, I thought Arn was a really tough matchup. Now, I still favored Islam because I, you know, I think Islam's wrestling, his power, his striking's got so much better.

I still leaned Islam. But I would say, like, in the division, if you're going to give me the guy that I think is the toughest matchup, I'd still say Armin, just because he's a legit lightweight. He's a monster on the ground, very strong, very young. Now, again, I'm still picking Islam to win that fight, but I think stylistically it's a tough matchup. How much of a chance do you give it? Because, again, you're right. Ilya wins.

Oh, my God, he's a mega star. He's a massive mega star. He's already a star. He's a whole other level. But the reality is he is a undersized guy. We haven't really seen him on the ground a ton in terms of like him being taken down and wrestled. So how much do you, how much of a chance do you give Ilya to pull off?

it would be an upset. There's no way it wouldn't be it. It would be an upset. He would be the underdog. Sure, sure. Yeah. I'm trying to decide if I would give him a better shot than Armin or not. Because here's the thing.

Armand stylistically, like he's a wrestler, right? So he's probably not going to beat Islam in the wrestling. I don't think his stand-up is really good enough to, you know, beat Islam in the stand-up. Ilya, of course, is going to be overmatched in the wrestling, but he does at least have the stand-up and the knockout power, where if Islam slips, makes a mistake, he's got that chance to pull it off, right? You know, if Islam, you know, mentally, you know, gets overconfident and wants to stand for too long, right? You know, there's a lot of, there's a clear path to victory for Ilya, whereas Armin is really, you know, really like an Islam light, right? Like he's kind of, you know, they kind of, we kind of assume they're going to wrestle and

a lot together and, you know, and thinking that he's going to be Islam with his wrestling, I think is more unlikely than Ilya beating Islam with stand-up. With that said, you know, it's also more likely that Islam just goes in and takes down Ilya and beats his shit out on the ground or submits him or something. I'm a little bit torn on that, to be honest. Yeah, it's interesting because, like, as you see, you're not wrong, Armine would have to kind of beat Islam in his own game, you know, and that's a tough game to beat.

Yeah, it would be interesting. So I don't think there's a really a wrong answer. Like I said, you could make an argument and say, well, Justin Gage's a star, and people love it. It puts on exciting fights. And really, who's going to complain? Like, we didn't really complain that much when Dustin Poria got it last year. Like, no one said, oh, Dustin, you didn't earn it.

You're a bum. No, no one said that. So you could make it. And Charles, who's really going to complain about Charles getting a rematch? Like, you could make an argument for any of these guys. Yeah, the tough thing with, I lost my train of thought. But anyway, the point is, Ilya does have, you know, sort of the X factor, right, that I think Armid doesn't have. And that's where I would give him a better shot.

And, yeah, so. But now I was just saying, yeah, Dustin, the difference in that was like, he beat Conner, you know? So like that propelled him so big. Like nobody's going to complain about getting the title shot after you beat Connor, right? Because you beat Connor. Yeah. At least mainstream people. You know, so I think that's the difference between him, right?

And whereas Gagie, again, I mean, I love Gagie, but, you know, I don't see as much past a victory for him there, you know? But you could definitely be wrong, right? Like, he's definitely excelled. Like, his stand-up has gotten a lot. better, sharper, you know, not taking his may wrist, seems to be a little bit more, more sniperish, I guess, more calculated with his striking. So that could go a long way, because he does still have the wrestling. You know, just when he fought Kabib, I was like, dude, what happened to your wrestling? But you got to think it's still there. We just don't

really see it. Yeah. Oh, that's also Khabib too. Let me ask, you know, let's get a career request. That's also going to get together like Kibb, so you just never know. Real quick before we get out of here, Matt, I don't know. We haven't really talked about this too much because we're going to talk about a lot this year. Because in all actuality, outside of John Jones versus Tom Aspinall and the potential like Connor coming back, the real biggest story of this year is going to be the UFC's TV deal because like it or not, like that's going to affect the future of the sport, where the sport's going to be seen at, how much money the UFC is going to get paid.

We've all heard the rumors over a billion dollars a year expected. Is the ESPN going to want to keep it? Are they going to try to keep it? Is it just a foregone conclusion? It's going to Netflix. That's been the big rumor. And I did a story a couple weeks ago. U.S.

313, tons of problems. Tons of problems ordering it. People were complaining. They couldn't buy it. I mean, it was all over the place. Fighters, fans. It was nuts. And I talked to sources from the U.S.

I'm going to say who. sources close to the UFC told me they were furious about the situation that like seven years into this relationship were still having problems. And by the way, for anyone says, oh, it was a one-time issue. Just type in pay-per-view issues ESPN. You'll go back and you'll see tons of people from like three years ago, four years ago, five years ago. And the big feeling right now, the leading candidate, which we've talked about before, Matt, I think everybody's talked about, is Netflix.

They have a relationship now with WWE. And Netflix's big argument against sports is they don't want the season model because seasons mean subscribers. If somebody just buys Netflix for the NFL, NFL is in February. They just canceled their Netflix until. September. They don't want people to lose that subscription. Well, guess what? UFC's year-round. And they're putting on in 52 weeks, they're putting on 45 cards

a year, so you don't have a reason to cancel. And here's the big thing, Matt, and this is a question I have for you, and this is the question I want to talk about real quick for you get out of here. We've heard these rumors that UFC pay-per-views are not doing great on ESPN. That's the rumor that's out there. They're not been doing great. The numbers

are down, so on and so forth. Now, we do know revenue-wise, the UFC is killing it. They are crushing it right now. They're making money- fist. Would the UFC be better served to look at a Netflix? Or let's just say Amazon Prime is another example, another place that has a huge amount of money and streaming

and do away with pay-per-view. Like, that seems like such a foreign concept to us as UFC people, like MMA people, because UFC's always done pay-per-view. But in 2025, it almost feels like like now it's basically UFC in boxing

and even boxing is only the big boxing matches. It's like five, maybe six fights, a year. That's it. No one else does pay-per-view anymore. Yeah, you don't really hear about pay-per-views anymore. Does WWE still do pay-per-views at all? They do what they call premium live events, but it's just streaming through Peacock. Like, if you have a Peacop subscription, you just get their shows. Like, they still do it, but they're not, they're not charging. I think there is a way you can buy it. If you don't have Peacock and pay like the $80, but who's going to do that? Like, who's going to pay $80 when you can pay $10 for Peacock? Yeah. Yeah, fair. Yeah. First, let me

say this, right? Isn't this such a great fucking problem to have? Right, right. You've been around this sport a long time. Remember when we were, you know, had a UFC every three or four months and we were like begging to have more and begging for it to get on network television? You couldn't watch the prelims. There was a time when you couldn't watch the prelims.

Well, I remember a time when you couldn't even watch it on paper view, right? Well, that too. Yeah. For a minute, right? You had to, you know, go on the undergrims. That was our move, right? Going underground, see what happened in the fight. And, you know, and then wait for the VHS to come out because we, you know, we weren't

internet savvy. At least I wasn't back then. So, you know, figuring out how to watch it. I mean, it was, it took forever. You know, so I just got to start with that, right? Like, this is a great fucking problem. And it's amazing the, the business that these guys have built, Dana White and Petitas and company and now WME and all these.

It's just it's really amazing the fucking model that they built, you know, whatever your feelings are about it, right? You got to respect that they've got it to this point where they're getting bids from fucking ESPN, Netflix, Amazon. Everybody wants them. You know, so I got to say, that's just badass, man. And to be a part of this sport for so long and, you know, watch it come up like that, right? Like when I was on the Ultimate Fighter, it was on fucking Spike TV, is there even a Spike TV anymore? Like, is this still even exists? Like, yeah, they're gone.

They're gone. Yeah, I remember fighting on what fuel TV, I think was what it's called. Field TV, yeah. Yeah, you know, just these odd channels that, you know, were kind of short-lived. And, you know, it's just, it's really, really cool to see. So I'm very happy that it's kind of turned out this way. You know, pros and cons, of course, with everything. But it's just really cool to see it have been a part of.

With that said, look, I think. think they should do away with the pay-per-view model. You know, like you're going to get more people watching. You're going to have bigger parties. You're going to have more accessible. Netflix is going to kill it with the UFC, right? They're going to get tons more subscribers. Like, I'm not subscribed to Netflix, and I would resubscribe with them.

I unsubscribe to them when they did that movie with the little girls. You know, you know, I don't know if it was even something serious or not, but, you know, the, I didn't really watch it anyway. And then I was like, oh, a little bit of controversy. And I don't like that they did that. I didn't watch it, you know, or research it or anything. I was like, I'll just cancel, whatever the fuck. And just haven't got it back since. But the point is, you know, I think that's the fucking way to go.

Don't you agree? I'll give me four words. why the UFC should do this and do away pay-per-view. Jake Paul, Mike Tyson. That thing got 100 million viewers for what we knew was going to be a dog shit fight. No one in their right mind tuned in

to actually think that that was going to be a good fight. It was like what you said when Connor was fighting Floyd. Like you know that there's going to be no, like that's not going to be a good fight. But it's hype. The hype is what we pay for, right? No one thought Mike Tyson at 58 years old was going to put on a great fight. And Jake Paul, while he's not a terrible boxer, he's not a world-class guy. I certainly glad he didn't go out there and fight like Anthony Joshua or something,

and we see Tyson literally get murdered in the ring. But no one expected that to be a good fight. But it was the hype, right? It was the attention. It was Jake Paul. It's Mike Tyson. $100 million. Now, if that did pay-per-view, would it have sold to a certain extent?

I'm sure there would have been a number of people who bought it. But nowhere near the numbers they did on Netflix. They did 100 million viewers for that fight. Yeah, that's a great point because the currency of today is attention, right? It's not necessarily just finances and money. Like, if you get the attention, you get the money. The money follows. Yeah, so again, yes, you're going to sack her, like, yes, a couple times a year,

you're going to miss out on some money when you don't get to do a Conner fight or obviously Jones Aspinall, which is still, you know, probably this year, that's still going to be pay-per-view. you're going to miss out in a couple of year where you get those bonkers numbers for a paper view where you say you sold a million paper views and you make a ton of money. Those are few and far between these days.

Alex Pereira, there's a couple examples where guys sell fights, but for the most part, there aren't that. 12 pay-prews a year, maybe two break that barrier where it's like, man, they really sold a pay-per-view. But imagine the other side of that when you could put Islam versus

Ili Teporea or Islam versus somebody or whatever, you know, and even if it's like 40 million people, tune in to watch. That's an insane amount of people and every single person that watched it is paying at minimum like $9.99 a month for Netflix.

That's where you get more money up front because why did the UFC do the ESPN deal with pay-per-view? Because the ESPN is giving them money up front. They're guaranteeing them X amount of dollars for every pay-per-view whether they sell 100 or they sell a million. And in this day and age, as we said,

the pay-per-view numbers seem to be down. So if they can get a billion dollars a year, let's just throw out that number at a five-year deal. It's a $5 billion deal. Are they really going to lose by having two pay reviews a year that don't break that bear? But they get 12 a year that do, you know what I mean? Like they're going to get guaranteed money up front for that. And you're going to get 30, 40, maybe 50 million. And remember, Netflix is global.

So, you know, you get people in, like people in Spain who are big Ilyat Toporia fans. They don't have to go searching for a paper. to go search into where they can watch this thing. They're just doing it Netflix. I know you don't have it now, but it seems like everyone has Netflix, right? Like, it's almost like, oh, yeah, everyone has Netflix. They have over 300 million subscribers worldwide. You're just going to get a bigger audience that way, and you're not going to cut people out

who don't want to spend $80 to watch a fight card. So, to me, it's a no-brainer. I mean, if you can get them to pay, why not? Like, to me, it feels antiquated at this point to still do pay. Because, again, as much as I understand, it happens a couple times a year, no one really does it anymore. And even boxing, like, yeah, there's like two, maybe three fights a year where they do that.

And even that's like, and that's very few and far between. Yeah. What I would like to see also, which I think would be done with Netflix, I thought it would be done with ESPN, but I haven't seen a lot of it. It's kind of offshoots, right? Like more countdown type shows, more 24-7-type shows, right? That I think, at least in my head,

I think Netflix would really be about that, right, and have consistent content, you know, feeding into the UFC brand on a regular basis where I don't know why ESPN never really did that or if they, if they are doing it. I'm not aware of it. And I feel like Netflix would really jump on that, right? And they could make, you know, they can make so many things with that, right? It'd be so much. And like I said, the real currency of today is attention, you know, and it's not just, you know, sell one fight and, And that's it, right? Like, you know, now you got to, now you got to repeat and do the same thing for the next fight. You know, you could build a consistent revenue stream, right? Where it's not just subscribers, but, you know, it's advertising merch and advertising events and, you know, a million different things. So I think it, to me, without knowing actual numbers, you know, I'm completely, you know, I have no clue about. you know, the numbers and the, you know, the deals, how they work out.

I mean, there's so many details in these deals and nuances and stuff. I've no idea about those, but in my head, it makes perfect sense, right? I mean, again, and again, I understand that, you know, UFC's always operated in a different business model, but the reality is, like, you know, the NFL, which is the biggest cash cow in the United States in terms of sports, like, I've never once heard them say we need to go to pay-per-view. Like, they don't need to. They got advertisers and people are going to pay to be on their brink. broadcasts. And I think it's the same thing here. Like if Netflix, because again, for Netflix

for streamers, it's all about keeping subscribers, right? Like, you don't want people to leave and go get Disney Plus or Amazon Prime or Paramount or whatever else. So they got over 300 million subscribers. Again, there's only so many people in the world who are going to buy it. But the key there is keeping people from leaving. So if you get another, let's just say they get 30 million subscribers for UFC fans. I don't know what the number is. I'm making it. Let's just say 25 million. Those 25 million are going to stay. because they're UFC fans. They're going to have to stay on for a year round,

especially if you give them John Jones, Tom Aspinall, for free. Or, you know, when I say for free, it's just part of your subscription like you did with Jake Paul Mike Tyson. They're going to stay. And I guarantee you the numbers are going to go bonkers because there's a lot of people right now, bitching complain about spending $80 for a fight card. Imagine you can spend $10 on Netflix and you get everything.

I mean, to me, it's a no-brainer. You know what I mean? To me, it's an absolute no-brainer. Yeah, I mean, you made the best point, too, with the advertisers. I mean, they're going to jump all over that. They're going to love that, right? Because, again, you're getting millions more eyes on it.

And how many people would just be watching it just because it's just something to watch, right? They're not even necessarily a fan or whatever. And then, you know, maybe a couple weekends they watch it just because it's something on TV, but eventually they get hooked into it, right? I mean, there's so many advantages to that. And it seems like a no-brainer. Again, there's so many details with the new. nuances of these types of deals that I have no idea about.

You know, so we'll see how it plays out, but it makes perfect sense to me. And I would be happy. Like, you know, I would go back to Netflix and resubscribe. And I would be stoked. I mean, I would rather than do Amazon Prime just because I do have an Amazon Prime membership just for the shipping and everything. But so I would prefer that personally. But, yeah, I mean, I would resubscribe.

And I would watch it more, right? because it's way more accessible. How did the UFC go viral back in, like, 2006? It was Forrest Griffin, Stephen Bonner, when they fought, and everyone's texting their friends, hey, you got to see this fight, turn on Spike TV. People didn't even know they had Spike TV, and they're like, oh, I got to watch this fight. You can't do that right now. I can't say, did you just see that Mauricio Rufi spinning wheel kick knockout on UFC 313?

Man, let me go watch that. Oh, you got to pay $80. Imagine if you could send that same message to your friend and they could just flip over to Netflix and turn it on and watch the fights. It's only going to make the sport bigger. You know what I mean? Because there is that wall right now. There is that paywall right now.

Yeah. And I guess one of the questions would be, you know, a lot of these guys like a John Jones, he's going to have pay-per-view points in his contract. So how do they renegotiate those deals? Sure, sure. I mean, you got to figure that out. But again, you remember, if they're paying a billion dollars or $1.5 billion a year, that's going to get figured out.

Like, they're going to, you know, they're going to. And again, we don't know right now, like, from what I'm hearing, like, the paper view numbers aren't tremendous. So, like, a lot of guys may not be getting bonuses as it is. Maybe they bake that into the bonuses. Hey, now that we're on Netflix. And the other benefit that I think is kind of getting forgotten in all this. One last thing I'll say about this is ESPN is a sports specific brand.

If you're only a UFC fan and you're buying ESPN Plus right now, you might be a little bum because you don't really care about college football. You don't really care about college basketball. You just care about UFC and whatever. But if you're Netflix, everyone watches movies. Everyone watches the TV show every now and again. Maybe you want to watch Vikings.

Well, yeah. But, I mean, you do occasionally. Like, you do occasionally watch. You watch Game of Thrones. Like, occasionally. And so, like, you know. I watch just with me and Moana. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

Like, you're going to be more apt to get. Like, okay, I got UFC, but I also got this movie. I got these TV. shows. I got, you know, like I watched the roast of Tom Brady. I don't, you know, that's not something I would know. I just saw it was funny.

And it was hilarious. I had my ass off at it. That was on Netflix. And you know how I watched it? Saw somebody on Twitter say, oh, my God, did you see this joke they just made on the Tom Brady thing? I was like, oh, let me go watch that. I didn't have to pay $15 to watch.

I already had Netflix. You know what I mean? So, again, I keep saying Netflix, Amazon Prime, as you said, that's another example of that. But I think it makes a lot of sense of all those sense of the world, man. And again, I'm not, you know, I don't really have a dog. this race necessarily, but dude, if 100 million people are going to watch Mike Tyson a 58 years old

fights a YouTuber, I guarantee that many people are going to tune to to watch John Jones and Tom Aspinall. Which makes me think of the question. Is YouTube in the mix here? I don't know. I mean, that's Google. I mean, they got tons of money too, so I mean, I guess

anything's possible. So, I mean, YouTube TV is a thing. I have YouTube TV. That's what I use. So it's very possible. I mean, I think I think everybody's going to be, you know, weirdly, I think ESPN's probably like last, though not last in the race, but I think they're kind of running behind because, you know, regular TV just isn't what it once was, you know what I mean? Like, you know, people don't have cable and that's why they're launching their own streaming service, like to go completely

streaming, you know what I mean? They're still going to be on TV, but like they're doing a full on streaming app to where it's like you can just watch it on, on streaming. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they're falling behind a little bit. And like I said, Netflix is where it's at. Amazon Prime's where it's at. Apple TV, they got all the money in the world. They got tons of money. So all kinds of possibilities.

I was thinking if I'm Google, I'm going to try to outbid them all. I'll try to get them on YouTube because YouTube TV, just from, again, me not knowing anything, I think it's probably one of the least popular streaming services. It's one of the more popular. popular like packages, but like the actual YouTube itself is not. Like YouTube TV is like, you know, Hulu plus Live. Like what you do like, it's like the new cable, but it's all streaming. They're one of the bigger ones for that.

But still, it's not nearly as big as like Netflix or Amazon Prime. It's not comparing to Netflix, right? Not even close. Yeah, I think that blows them up. But it also, I mean, it seems to me like it would help, you know, their content creation a lot too, right? Like it gives, you know, a lot of credibility to people, the podcasters and the UFC content creator type people. Yeah. Like I said, I just think it's a win-win.

And again, if you're Netflix, you know, as time passes and more people are doing streaming services. And back in the day, like every TV show, you'd sell a package to Netflix. Like, hey, I want to watch Breaking Bad. Just go to Netflix. Well, guess what? Now AMC has their own streaming, so they're going to keep Breaking Bad. And they're going to keep The Walking Dead. And they're going to keep Game of Thrones.

You know, you don't get Game of Thrones unless you have HBO. You don't get that on Netflix. So how does Netflix keep people coming in? Well, hey, we're the only place you get the UFC. We're the only place you can get WWE. That's all I'm saying. Like, it's a good move. So we'll see, man.

I just, you know. Is that going to be a package deal with, you know, them being under TKO now altogether? I mean, it could be. I mean, that's why you keep going back to Netflix. When they got that deal with WWE and you keep here, like, I do all the financial calls. And the TKO people are like, you know, they've seen like a 13 or 15% increase in viewership since going to Netflix. Netflix, that's a huge amount of people.

15% when you think about how many millions of people are tuning in, that's a big number. You know what I mean? If you can do that for UFC and you get a 10, 15, 20% increase in viewership, that's a massive amount of people when you're talking about millions of people. Yeah, or even just, I mean, just the pay-per-views themselves, right? Like those are the biggest fights and, you know, they sell, you know, a big one, right? It's going to be a million paper views where I mean, how many people watch probably, you know, 10 million, I guess, right? Because all people going to parties and bars and stuff like that.

And, you know, but if you increase that number to 30 million, I mean, that's, like, your advertisers and, and side streams are going to make up for that, that money easily. Easily. Yeah. Like, they do the deal with Bud, Bud Light or whatever. Like, Bud Light will triple their package because now they're going to be seen by 40 million people as opposed to 10.

Oh, 100%. Like, that's where you make your money back. Like, okay, we're not getting the pay-per-views, but guess what? what, now Bud Light and Monster Energy, they're going to pay triple because their package is going to get shown to 40 million people or 50. Or who knows? Like I said, I don't know that anyone's going to watch 100 million people,

but maybe Connor comes back. You do 100 million viewers on Netflix. That's a massive amount of people that are watching your event, and you can sell the shit out of that with advertisers. Yeah. And again, I always go back to the fighters, you know, without them getting the pay-per-view points. I mean, you have these notorious for being,

staunch fucking deal makers, right? Like that, you know, and it's a part of how they built their business, right? You know, you don't, you don't pay the employees the max amount, right? That's why union labor has a harder time building business stuff, right? So, you know, not necessarily hating on them for that or anything, but, you know, it's going to be the, some tough negotiations, you know, when you're talking about how much money am I going to get, you know, when I'm giving up these paper viewpoints. And right now, for instance, like John Jones is in a pretty fucking strong position, right? So this might work out great for him. Yeah, I mean, like I said, and again, everyone says, like, oh, you're going to, Alex Prayer and John Jones, what are they going to do?

The NFL makes it work. NBA makes it. I understand they have collective bargaining. They have unions. I'm not even getting into that side. I'm just saying, like, they make all the money and the players still get paid. I'm not saying that, like, I don't think, what I'm getting at is I think if they sign this deal with Netflix, I don't think John Jones is going to lose money. Like, I don't think that's going to happen.

Now, you know, will they have to pay him more up front? Will they have to guarantee him? I bet you they're doing that now anyways. Like, I don't think they're worried about pay-per-view points with John Jones right now as much as like, hey, he wants $20 million. Okay, that's what we've got to figure out, you know? So, yeah, we'll see. But I just, that's another little piece of the puzzle that really complicates things.

And again, the reason I bring it up and the reason it's on my mind is I care about the fighters, right? I think these guys should be getting, we all know. we should all be getting paid more. That was one of the things, you know, about Dana starting this boxing league that really, um, the first thing I thought of, right, was okay,

like how are you going to get boxers, right? You're going to have to pay them a shit ton of money, right? Terrence Crawford's not signing to TKO boxing without a, a massive fucking payday. Well, then John Jones is going to look at that and be like,

well, why aren't I making a much fucking money, right? 100%. Yeah, and then if you're not paying the boxers, that kind of money, like, no one's going to fucking sign, right? So, you know, this, things are getting really interesting in the business side of TKO, WME, UFC, Zoof, whatever, all this stuff. It's harder to hide the money now, too, because they do these public disclosures.

Like, we do it all the time with the revenue. Like, if they sign a deal with Netflix, they're getting paid $1.5 billion a year. That's not mystery now. We know how much they're getting. The fighters, when they go back getting that renegotiation, and John Jones is like, hey, I just beat Tom Aspinall. Now you want me to fight whoever. I got one fight left in me. Let's start talking checkbook.

Oh, you just signed a $1.5 billion per year deal. Right. You know, so, you know, like I said, and you can't hide that. Like, they can't hide that number and say, oh, we're not really making that. There's a whole filing of the SEC and your stocks. Like, we know what you're making. Yeah. That gives you leverage.

So I just, like I said, I don't know what's going to happen. But I just, there's something in my head that's like, man, I think Paperview might be going away. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. But there's just something in my head, man. Someone's going to come in with a big ass check. Jeff Bezos, Netflix. Someone's going to come into a big ass check and say, we want UFC and we want all UFC.

And they're like, let's cash it in, Ben. Let's cash it in, baby. If I was in their position, I'd be the guy signed the biggest check. Because, again, their business model is absolutely killing it. 100%. All right. We're going to get out of here. Obviously, you're still so good.

Are you, you're still doing seminars. So where are you trade your city's jumping to France next? Yeah, tomorrow, unfortunately, I got to get up at like three in the morning. I'll be flying out to Marciate, France. I actually spend probably about half a day in Spain. So that might be cool, right? Go see Spain a little bit. Go to France.

And then I'll be going over to the UK. Might make it out to London for the UFC this weekend. Who knows, you know, if things work out just right. And I think that'd be pretty fun. make a little stop over at the UFC. And then I'll be back next week. And so we'll see if I get on the podcast next week to all my, you know, loyal listeners that just can't miss a week of me being gone.

I'll be back to next week if I'm not here next week. Yeah, distance makes the heart grow fonder. So we'll get it done one way or the other. And as always, we want to say big thank you to everyone that tunes in the show. Yeah, follow on with Matt on on Instagram. He has been showing some pretty cool photos. stuff from Ireland, some castles and shit. You know, so some cool stuff.

You went to the Braveheart Castle. I did. Yeah, that was really cool. And the other, but even cooler, though, honestly, was the Blarney Castle that I went to a couple days ago. It just fascinating, man. Just a whole other world. It's an amazing place, man. I'll freaking love it here.

Absolutely. Well, I want to say a big thank you. Everyone to tunes in each every week. Make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast, platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and, of course, ever on the best website in the world, MMA Fighting. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We may see you back next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. If not, we'll be back to the following week when Matt is back in the United States and kicking ass in America as he always does.

As always, we thank you for tuning in. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Podcast Network. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrine sets. Our special selection has something for every single.

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