MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Praises Petr Yan After UFC 323 Win, Reacts to Joshua Van’s Post Fight Celebration

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the fallout from UFC 323 including Petr Yan beating Merab Dvalishvili to reclaim the bantamweight title. Plus Joshua Van became UFC flyweight champion after Alexandre Pantoja suffered a gruesome arm injury but was his post-fight celebration too much? And we’ll discuss Dana White shutting down Arman Tsarukyan from getting a title shot after dropping out of his previously scheduled championship opportunity during fight week. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer … Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Learn more at snapdragon.com slash laptops. Battery life varies significantly based on device, settings, usage, and other factors. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we officially closed out the UFC on ESPN pay-per-view era. One more event left to go this weekend.

But we are now officially moving towards Paramount with two new champions crowned at UFC. 3-23, Piotr-Yan, DeVita Biroibald is really one of the most stunning performances of the year. And then kind of an unfortunate incident, Alessandre Pantos just snaps his arm, dislocates his elbow, not his shoulder. Sorry, that was a weird diagnosis. And now Joshua Van is champion. Matt, what was your impression? I know you were watching and obviously pretty impressed, especially by the main event. Yeah, of course. I'm not going to say that I totally called it because I didn't end up actually picking Yon, but I

kind of called it right i mean i was i got to get myself a little pat on the back there give myself some send myself some my own flowers but um man yeah like what a great night of fights i mean that's that's you know that that's the most important thing right that was just a great night of fights all around and um you know i tweeted i said look that that felt to me like one of the best fights in history and it wasn't because it was uh dan henderson fighting showgun who are and knocking each other down and beating the hell out of each other, which they did, but in such precise fashion and using all aspects of martial arts, like they put the mixed and mixed martial arts and just the, I felt like I was watching the highest skilled fight that

maybe I've ever seen. I don't know. Like, I got to really think about it. Like I'm, but in the moment, it was like, man, I could not think of a fight of this high caliber of skill. I mean, Peter Yan looked so incredible and he was ready for every single thing the Marab threw at him. Like, I scored a 50-45. Like, I didn't think it was really a close fight. There was like one round maybe, but otherwise,

I thought it was pretty much a shutout for Peter Yan. Because the damage. Damage is the number one criteria. And even, I think it was like the third round, I think it was, where he was down. He was definitely losing. And then boom, at the end of the round, hit him with that body kick, I think it was.

And Marat was hurt badly. Damage counts most. The first round, right? Rob kind of controlled the first round, but he got rock, too. Yeah, I mean, anytime, like, you got to remember, damage is most important in when you're scoring a fight, and when it's a, you know, when you're, when you're controlling the round, controlling the round, but then you get hurt badly, you lose the round. I mean, that's just how it works.

And so I thought Peter Yon scored it. And by the way, like, I think people got to quantify when you said, like, one of the greatest fights ever. You're not saying, like, one of the greatest slug fest ever, like, this, you know, back in, one of the most skilled fights ever. That was one of the most skilled performances I think we were. we've ever seen but but you know they didn't just show skill like you know again it wasn't a slug fest like it wasn't don fry and uh who was it the japanese guy you know with the hockey fight

it wasn't that that but that's to me not what makes a great fight a great fight i mean that's fun to watch but that's not greatness i mean i thought we've seen greatness there i mean those guys are just so high skilled and you can see the tactics changing them trying different things and reacting to each other doing wrestling and jihitsu and and you know kicks and i mean you know both guys showed tremendous heart tremendous cardio um you know ungodly levels of skill um you know i just thought it was fantastic all around like i'm going to watch that fight again and see if maybe i was just i don't remember last time i watched a fight twice but i'm going to watch this again i want

to see if this was just recency bias or if it was just in the moment but it felt like a fucking I can't think of a fight that good I mean I don't know fire some off you you're the encyclopedia I mean you mentioned Dan Henderson Shogun is obviously iconic and that's one of the greatest fights of all time in terms like you know we're just talking about you know knockdown dragout wars I mean that was obviously great just a Gaichi you can name like nine of his fights that are up there you know Gauchin yeah Gauchy and poria yeah you're absolutely right like And, you know, I think, you know, like, it depends on what you want to quantify as the greatest.

You know what I mean? Like, is it greatest in terms of, like, it's just a back-and-forth battle, and it's just, you know, right down to the wire. And that's what you're looking for. Like, that's totally understandable. That's what some people quantify as fight in the night or, you know, best fight ever. I mean, there was a fight on the prelims on Saturday night. It lasted 90 seconds. These guys just absolutely beat the living shit out of each other for 90 seconds, and one guy ended up getting the knockout.

I'm not saying it was the most skilled fight in the world, but it was fun to watch for 90s. seconds. But watching what Peter Yan did was just pure skill. That was a guy who lost and wasn't a particularly close fight in the first time in Marab. And he went out there and showed all the improvements, showed how much better he got, showed how prepared

he was for a guy like Marab who had pretty much I want to say looked invincible. I mean, you know, obviously Umar took a couple rounds from him and, you know, so he's an invincible guy. But to go out there and do what he did over five rounds was incredibly impressive. And by the way, I think to me, Matt, what impressed me the most

was his ability to do that in the fifth round. Daniel Cormier made a comment early in the fight and he said, you got to win these early rounds because you know Morab is winning four and five. And he's not wrong, by the way, in saying that, because that's just kind of like, we've all come to expect Marab is going to out cardio and outwork

everybody. Guess what? That didn't happen on Saturday night. Peter Young was outworking him all the way to the final bell. And I think that to me was what was most impressive. He never slowed down. He never lost faith. He never got tired. He kind of quote unquote slowed down a couple times during rounds, but then towards the end of the round, boom, he'd hit that nasty body kicker. Boom. He'd hit a big punch

and rattled Morab again. It was kind of stunning to watch how he did that, how he managed to you kind of pick apart and dismantle Morab after all the ways Marab had beaten guys in every way possible over this last year. Yeah, I mean, when guys are on the top and they're doing like what Marab did they look like they're invincible and it should go to remind you like no one in this game is invincible man like you keep putting yourself out there long enough against the top guys you will get caught and that's one of the things that makes this game such an amazing you know such an amazing sport because you i don't know if it's possible to like just be everybody for you know i don't know for a certain amount of time you know it's like because there's just there's too many

aspects there's too many factors uh you know a lot of people kind of chalked up to being marab's fourth fight of the year i thought he looked like himself i thought he looked great i thought he looked just like he had fought in and all of his other fights peter yon just reacted better peter yon just had an answer for everything peter yon did exactly again i don't like to my own horn you know but he did exactly what i said he would have to do he'd have to keep marab on his heels you you know, pressure him. You can't, that's what I said, that that was the reason, like, Corey and somebody else I'm not remember, but, you know, like Corey had a hard time.

Like, Corey has way better striking them Robb, but he's not going to be able to stay in the pocket and force Marab to do things. He's going to try to pick him apart. And that just gives Maraub an opportunity for a shot. Yon stayed right in his face the whole time, you know, countered everything that he did almost. It was just brilliant It was a beautiful performance

Did great with the two on ones And I thought it was really smart of him To elbow Mrob's forearm when they had I guess his face against the cage And Marab had his back But he kept a lot of pressure On his forearms with the two on one

It's just a brilliant performance by both guys Too like I'm not taking anything away from Mrab either because I think it was brilliant on his party I mean he kept fighting through fucking hell the whole time, right? We can't discredit how well he fought either.

You know, but I will say there were a couple moments in there where he kind of slowed down a little bit. And I think this is also giving credit to Peter Yon for, you know, doing the body shots and hurting him and things like that. Obviously, by the end of the fight, you see Morab was busted up, man.

His nose was busted. He had cuts everywhere. He was bruised and bleeding. But I do think that, like, and I'm not like, you know, We always say, you don't want to diminish a guy's performance who went out there and won the fight. And Peartreana absolutely went out there and won the fight. But anytime that happens, you know people are going to look for excuses, right?

People are going to say, why did this happen? And immediately with this one, people are going to point to why do Morav fight four times this year? Yeah. And my criticism of that isn't necessarily that he fought four times. It's the, to me, it really comes down to the distance between the last fight and this fight. doing a five-round fight with Corey Sandhagen there was a battle. I mean, Corey, he brought it to him. It was a good fight in October and then turning around doing again two months later.

I'm not even saying four fights in a year is a bad idea. I'm saying maybe not the best idea to do a quick – because that's ultimately a quick turnaround. You're basically fighting in mid-October and then turning around and fighting again two months later. So you have no break, no rest, no recovery. You're going basically right into the training camp again. And I admire Morav for doing that, but I don't know if that potentially could have. I don't know that it affected him because Peter Yon, obviously, I think the body shots did more damage than doing back-to-back training camps.

But that's what people are going to point to. You shouldn't do it four times in the year. You shouldn't try this. That was a bad idea. And I mean, maybe, maybe they do a trilogy and Marab looks incredible and he shuts out of everything Peter Yon does. Maybe we can say, well, maybe he didn't. Maybe he wasn't his best. But I don't think you could diminish what Peter Yon did by saying, well, this is Marab's fault.

because Marab, Marab did what he always does. He came forward, he tried to get takedowns. Peter Yon just shut him down. Like, he was just really, really well prepared for this. And I wonder, and I, like, I wonder if, like, Marab was writing such a high and so dominant that maybe he thought I can just kind of go out there and do what I did the last time. And it didn't work. You know, I'm, I kept wondering why can people keep saying that it was because he fought four times in the year.

And Rob's not making that excuse. respect to him for that, but other people are kind of making that reasoning for him. I wouldn't even call an excuse, right? It's kind of a reasoning that they're saying. But again, he looked himself. Like he didn't look slower. He took shots very well. He didn't get tired outside of like, you know, when he got hit by body shots.

Like nothing looked out of the norm for him, in my opinion. My argument is, you know, we see wrestlers wrestle year around for years and years on end, we see, you know, all kinds of different sport athletes compete multiple times a year all the time. It's just for some reason people think in fighting, you can't do it all the time. And I get it if you're taking a bunch of damage all the time, or maybe if you're not really training smart, maybe if the weight cut is really difficult, which may be the case from Rob. Like, I don't think he has the easiest weight cut. I think he's probably cutting a lot, which was kind of interesting how he doesn't have a he doesn't trust the nutritionist or what do you say strength coach

or dietitians or whatever yeah i was like like you're like pound for pound like top three in the world bro like you can find some guy that you trust and but i get where he's coming from too man like there's so many leeches out there when you get up to that level you start making a little bit of money man there's leeches everywhere right and they're going to tell you they got the answers and this and that, but, you know, you can usually weed them out pretty quick, and that's kind of what you got a team around you for, a manager and your coaches, and they can say, no, this guy's legit, this guy's not, or just working with your team. But I don't think it was the fact that he fought four times in a year.

I don't think it had anything to do with it. I mean, anytime you say that, it diminishes what the other guy did, and I think really it comes down to Peter Yon's game plan and his execution of that game plan to go out there and shut down the rest. wrestling. And also, I think you gotta get Peter Yan credit for not over-exerting himself because when he hit like the body kick and Marab gets obviously wobble and he's backing up and you're like, go for it. In your head, you're like, go for the kill, go for the kill. He did search forward and throw, but when he realized Marab wasn't just gonna fold and go away, he took a step back,

don't waste your energy and then reset and he did it multiple, multiple times. I think Peter Yan recognized that any amount of mistake in the over-exertion of what he's doing could spell his downfall late in the fight. So, I mean, I think that was one of the most tactical smart performances. Like, it was a dominant performance, but it was also very smart. Like, he knew what he needed to do to beat Morab this time, and he did it. And I think it says a lot about his execution of that game plan that he was smart when he knew when he knew when he knew when to exert his energy late in those rounds I was talking

about close rounds and boom at the end of the round he hits that body kick boom he hits a big jab and hurts and knocks him backwards he knew when to do that because he and i have to imagine somewhere deep down peter yon knows i can't do this for five straight rounds i can't go out there and just totally throw you know just throw combination after combination after combination and hope to them have energy in that fifth round i think he was i think he was reserving energy for the right moments and then when he unleashed his strikes he hit my ab and hurt Marab and won rounds. Now, I'm sure Peter Yon would like to have gotten a knockout,

but I think we've also, if you're going to say one more thing about Marab, he's shown incredible toughness. The dude is incredibly durable. So why exert your energy going for a finish that might not come when you know do you have a way to win the fight otherwise? Yeah, and that's again why I put it down as one of the best fights I've ever seen because Jan fought incredibly, right? I mean, that's obvious, right?

He won, he strategized, perfect. But Marab is really what made it such a great fight. He never stopped coming. He got hurt multiple times, came forward. The whole time was trying to win. The whole time was trying to find new things. I kept shooting for his shots. And we've seen him do that many times in the past, right?

Where he goes in the first round or two has a hard time taking a guy down. Then the guy wears down a little bit. And by the third, fourth, fifth round, he's just taking them down at will. and watching that tactical ability of Peter Yon to be efficient and maintain the strategy through the fire because Marab hit him a bunch of times too. You know, it wasn't like Jan got out of there totally unscathed. You know, watching that back and foot.

And look, Marab was ahead in a lot of rounds, I thought. Maybe at some point in almost every round, Marab had a lead or was close. to get in the lead, you know, something like that. And Yon just kept finding a way. So I just, I think the two of them, I can't wait to see a trilogy fight. I think it's going to be a fantastic fight. I think Rob will come back better.

I think he, this is probably the first time that he realizes, like, there's some skills to work on, right? Because I don't really see him necessarily improving skill-wise a lot, you know, throughout his career that we've seen. I think his stand-up has gotten a little bit better. it really just works because he comes forward so hard and he's got such a high pace. I think he's going to go back and he's going to see that there's a little skill gap there that he's got to cover. And assuming he goes and works on that, I think the third fight could be a freaking even better fight. So in your opinion, do you think they should run it back? That should be the fight we see next year, like right?

Not right away, like when they're both healthy and ready again. Do you think we should see Mareb Yon 3? should that be the fight personally i say absolutely and it's not like there's someone you know just just waiting you know like an arman who is which i'm sure we'll talk about how he's you know sitting in the shadows just waiting forever there you know there's not a guy there um unless i'm not thinking about someone no i mean i mean obviously you know we got some big ban on weight fights coming up you know obviously we got umar fighting devison figurado in january we got sean Sean O'Malley's probably the happiest guy in the world right now

because Marab's no longer champion and he has a win over the current champion of Peter Yon. He's got Song Yadong in January. So you could argue if Sean O'Malley goes out there knocks out Song Yadong, you can say, well, and the first one was great. That Yon Mowley fight was incredible. I know you've said before you scored her for Yon.

I actually scored her for O'Malley. It was a very close fight. And then you got Ubar, who's kind of still that, you know, anointed next big thing. And if he goes out there and beats Devis and Vigaredo, I think he will. I think that's a very winnable fight for Umar. Then you can make that argument. But it's hard. Like, I don't know because, like, when O'Malley got the rematch with Marab right away, I was not a fan of it for a lot of reasons, not the least of which was that he had defended the title one time. Like, I think if you're going to get an immediate rematch, you should really need to, you should really be in a good position to do that.

Like, you've defended the title three or four times. Or, you know, it was a very close fight split decision and kind of thing like that. I didn't think that was the case. And Marab fought Umar and then O'Malli just. got a rematch. I was never a fan of that. And O'Malley had to suffer because of it, because he lost again, lost even worse the second time. And you're like, well, we don't want he to see it a third time. And until Marab lost on Saturday night, O'Malley's kind of in no man's land. As long as Mara had that title, O'Malley was kind of in no man's land. So I could see the argument there if O'Malley goes out there and just absolutely assassinates, you know, goes out there, beats, you know, Song Yudongre dominantly.

Because of the first fight with Yon, I could see them doing that. And obviously, Sean O'Malley is still super popular. But Otherwise, I think the key here is for Marab is like, don't rush back into it. You know, take your time, recover. I mean, he got busted up pretty good. And I know facial, like, lacerations and stuff. That kind of stuff heals up pretty quickly. But, like, really reassess what went wrong in that fight.

Like, where did Peter Jan figure you out? Because it felt like Peter Jan figured out the Marab puzzle that no one else had done. So I think Marab needs to kind of swell. Like you said, switch to pieces a little bit, kind of figuring things out. And come back in, you know, four or five months. You know, don't rush back in there just because you're just because you. You're like, I'm Marab, I've got to fight every two months. Let's book the title fight in March.

Don't do that. Take your time, recover, get better, analyze where things went wrong, and then book the fight again. And I think if Marab wants it, he should get it. Now, will he want it? Will he want to, you know, immediately jump back in there? I don't know. But it's hard to deny him with three title defenses looking as good as he did that he doesn't deserve.

And they're one and one now, technically. They're literally one. And both were five-round fights. It wasn't like he had a three-round win over him from like a decade ago. They were one-in-one. So if Morat wants it, I think you got to give it to him. I totally agree. And, you know, most likely in the world that we are today, it's going to be Sean O'Malley, assuming he beats Song Yadong, you know, because that's the world we live in today.

But, yeah, I absolutely think that, which to me doesn't make sense because, you know, Marab beat him twice. And, you know, Marab shouldn't have to go beat another guy to get a title fight to get a rematch regardless, right? because it's a trilogy fight too there's a story here i think it makes for a great fight um but you know that is the world that we live in but let's say sean o'malley goes out and beats um um you know song yadong and then goes and beats peter yon which is a possibility right makes things kind of easy for morab at that point right but you know this could get my point with that is Like, this could get really complicated, right? And could go on for a while, depending on how things play out.

And I say, give Marab an immediate rematch. If he wants to do it in two months, let him do it two months, right? It's his job. It's his career. If he wants to wait three or four months, give him three or four months, six months, whatever it is. Give him the immediate rematch. Let the division play itself out a little bit.

And whoever wins the third fight, we don't really need to do it again. maybe, you know, it might be, it might be a close split decision or something, right? Who knows? You know, there's a, I'm not against guys fighting each other five, six times. You know, I like that kind of stuff. But they got to let the division play out a little bit, I think. And, you know, I don't think Song Yidong's will be an easy fight for Sean O'Malley either, he's just saying. I don't.

I don't think it's going to be an easy fight, but I agree. Like, you give Marab the title shot. But I also think what Saturday in now, I also approved in Marab's case, because Marab had looked so unbeatable 14 fight winning streak whatever it was and you know obviously before he became champion he's taking out guys like henry sehudo and all the guys he beat on his way to the title and he goes out there beat sean o'malley becomes champion and then beats umar a guy that everyone kind of anointed is like the future champ myself included i picked umar to win that fight i'll own that uh he beats him he beats sean o'malley he beats corey sanhagen three title defenses

in the year and this isn't even like the one year thing like i'm taking that out of the equation but going out there for his four title defense and he loses to a guy he had already beaten and pretty lopsied. It wasn't the most exciting fight in the world but he beat Peter Yon. There was no question when it was over. He beat him like 50, 45 or whatever.

It shows how hard it is to defend a UFC title for a long time. Like I think we got to learn to appreciate that a little bit more because while I do, like I think Islam going up to 170 and doing what he did was unbelievably impressive. And I'm not saying he needed to stick around one. He had four title defense. which is the most in the history of that division he's talked about going to 170 for years

this is not like a new thing like he's talking and he's talking to the weight cut is he gets all he's like 34 now and the time the clock is ticking right like you can't do it forever and I think you know I would imagine Islam's got a couple years left I don't think he's going to be around until he's like 45 so I don't blame him for taking that opportunity

to go up to 170 when he did and by the way Islam's at 170 now he's going to defend that title whether it's Ushman or Shavkat or whoever it's going to be so he's going to defend that title so it's not like he won that now he's going up to 185, like he's defending the title. But Marab doing it three times than losing last night shows how freaking hard

it is, man. Like, it is, like, that's why I think all this two-division champ champ-champ bullshit is exactly that. It's bullshit. I'm not saying it's not impressive. It can be impressive. Absolutely, what Islam did did was incredibly impressive. But he did it after he had already kind of defined himself as like, at worst, one of the greatest lightweights of all time.

And then he went up and did it. It is so hard to win a UFC title and hold onto that title. We, I mean, to your credit, Matt, you did, you know, you did give the path to victory why you thought Peter Yonka win that fight. I know you did ultimately pick Marab, and I did

too, because I'm like, it just feels like Marab's on a different level right now. But that's how hard it is. Like, even as good as Marab has been, he ran into a brick wall last night. He ran into Peter Yan, and now he's not champion anymore. And do you know, and we'll talk about Pantosia in a second, because

he was the other guy who had the most title of defenses. Do you know the most title defenses in UFC now is Valentina Strachinko with two? Oh, really? That's the long, currently the longest reigning champion in the UFC is Valentina Succhenko

with two title defenses. Oh, God. Yeah, man, it's a tough freaking game out there and the level's coming up all the time and, you know, when you got the title, man, you got a target on your back

and everybody's going to be studying you and figuring out how to get to you. So, yeah, it's tough, man. But, but, you know, to be fair to Marab, like, he probably should have, had the title long before and probably should have more defenses under his belt you know i i kind of think that's that's the truth with him um that you know he just ran into the the best version of peter yon that we've seen yet man and i've said for a long time i've had you know i've had a high praise

for peter yon for a very long time and then the cool thing about him is you know i kind of start even questioned my own praise for him for a minute there, right? He went on a three-fight losing street. And I was like, damn, is that, is he not everything that I thought he was, or, you know, that we thought that he was going to be? And then he comes back and does this. I mean, what an impressive story and just an impressive fighter all around. You can't, you can't give enough praise to him right now, in my opinion. And I know you said one of the best fights ever, and that also gives credit to Morab, but just in terms of title fight performances, that's got to be one of the, If not for just watching Islam do it he did to Jack Del and Madelaine over five rounds like a month and a half ago, which to me still blows me away how dominant he was in that fight and like all Jack did was survive.

Like Marab did more than survive. Like Marab was in there. He was winning rounds until he wasn't. But still to have that kind of wherewithal to have that kind of performance and that kind of game plan and that kind of strategy and that kind of execution like that, that might be one of the highest level title fight performances we've ever seen. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Yeah, yeah, you know, just to have that confidence, too. I mean, he looked straight away from the first bell. I mean, he looked like he knew exactly what was going to happen.

He knew exactly what he wanted to do and went out there and freaking did it, man. So, yeah, I want to watch it again. I'm looking forward to watching that fight again because I think there's a lot to be learned from that fight. I agree. I agree. Co-main event unfortunately ended in bad circumstances. Alessandre Pankot to Pantosia looks like he got fired out of a gun

comes out in attacks right away like he said after the fight he wanted to put him in the first round to Joshua Vann's credit like he countered he was in there he was throwing it looked like it was going to be a war and then you know Joshua Vann blocks a head kit grabs the leg Pantosia goes down to post the arm his arm snaps dislocated elbow

sounds like what it is which that could mean a million things dislocated elbow isn't just you pop it back in and you start fighting again like you know that could be torn ligaments it could be all kinds of stuff 26 seconds it's over and Joshua Vanna's champion. Can I ask you this, Matt? Because we always have this question about, like, I don't know, etiquette.

Maybe, is that the right word? Like, you know, like, when a guy is laid out, knocked out on the ground, should you be jumping up on the cage and celebrating while your opponent looks like he might be seriously harmed? Now, thankfully, generally speaking, guys get up and they're okay. But in that moment, it is scary, right? You know, dude, maybe calm down the celebration for a minute. People were giving Joshua Vann a lot of shit last night for, like, when he won,

grabbing that title and jumping up on the key. cages, teams putting them up on their shoulders, like, what did you win, dude? Like, he broke his arm 30 seconds in before the fight really started. So, Matt, I'm not going to, I'm not, like, I'll place my opinion on this, but you are a fighter. You've been in there on both sides of the coin. You've been on there when you won big fights and knocked your opponent out, when you laid out Diego Sanchez with an elbow and he's laying their face around the campus.

And obviously, you've talked very honestly about the other side. So what do you make of Joshua Vann's celebration? And because I think your perspective is far more important because you're a fighter and you've been in there. Yeah, it kind of reminds me like when, um, was it Chris, uh, Anderson Silva broke his calf on Chris Wyman. He was kind of celebrating, you know, it's kind of the same type of thing. And, you know, to be honest, when it's for a title like that, I don't want to hate on Josh Van for it, right? Because here's what the fact is. This dude has spent his whole life, pretty short life of his, about half a month.

So, you know, not for long, but, you know, even if not his whole life, for the last however many years, his entire life has been on getting to this single goal, which is an exceptionally high goal. You know, this isn't, you know, I want to have a million dollar net worth by time I'm 30 or some shit, right? This is like an insanely hard to reach goal. And he got it. How he got it? does it really matter right they put a belt around his waist this is what he dreamed about this is what he visualized this is what he put the work in for so i can understand that side on a personal note i would like to think that myself i wouldn't be so happy right because you

want to win the fight for it but i can understand him being as happy as he is now if you go walking around you're talking about how you beat him like, you know, I love Chris Wyman. You know, no disrespect to him. But, you know, I think he kind of rubbed some people the wrong way when he was, like, saying, like, he did that intentionally, right? What do he call the technique? Yeah, I know the check.

I care what you. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, like some term for it. You know, that's a little silly, in my opinion. But, you know, the fact that you reach that mountain that you've been trying to climb for so long, and it doesn't really matter. how it happens. But the fact that you got there is something to celebrate, something to be

happy about. With that said, again, I would like to think that I would not do that. And I don't think he's, I think, you know, on the inside, he's probably not as happy as he would be had he went out there and beat him. But it's like you're in the moment, right? You're in an arena full of, you know, 20,000 drunk-ass bloodthirsty fans and, you know, your adrenaline is skyrocketed and it all happened for you. So I can understand it. Again, I just, I like to think that I wouldn't do it, but, but I can understand where you'd be so excited. I didn't see the post-fight press conference or anything that he said since. I don't know if he's mentioned anything about it. And that's kind to where I would probably

be more harshly critical, kind of once your adrenaline settles down, and what do you say then about it? I mean, I know he said, like, you know, it's unfortunate that he didn't want to win the fight that way. Like, you know, of course he didn't, but like, when he answered the court, somebody said, when somebody's like, what do you, what do you say to the people who said you shouldn't celebrate? He said, fuck

him. And I was kind of like, you know, he's kind of got a point. Like, he just won a title. I know it's not ideal. And he said, it's not ideal. It's not the way I wanted to win a title, but he is a champion. Like, I don't, like, I guess the other side is, what do you want him to do? the belt on the ground spit on it and walk out of the cage like what do you want him to do you want to fuck this guy like yeah and again i think man i don't know if i would say that you know like

fuck him or whatever uh i'm not a big fan of that because like okay like what if pantosia i don't know um you know didn't get medically cleared the night of right or he was vomiting in the back or slipped and fell right i think ranelman did that right slipped and fell broke his ACL or ankle or something You know, what if that happened? Like, would you still be as happy? You know, because that's essentially the same thing that happened here. So, again, like, I would hope, like, he settles down. He says, look, I didn't really earn this.

But I am the champion. So fuck you, I am the champion. But there's not as much to celebrate there. Yeah, I just, I think it's almost like, like, it's an emotional moment. You know what I mean? It's an emotional moment. He won the title. And it's not his fault.

and not like he did, you know, like he cheated to do it. He didn't eye poke Pantosian, gouged his eye on it. He tripped him, he fell, his arm broke, and, yeah, it sucks. And I think we probably have even a slight, like, we rarely talk about the Anderson Silva, Chris Wyman fight, the rematch, because Wyman won the first fight, knocked out Anderson Silva, and then looked pretty good going in the second fight, and Anderson broke his leg, and we're like, well, it was over, you know what I mean? It lasted whatever was four minutes or whatever it was, but Wyman already had that win.

So it's almost like, well, you know, it happened again. We'd move on. Kind of like with Connor and Dustin. Dustin knocked him out in that rematch, and Dustin was clearly winning the third fight. And then, you know, Connor snapped his leg and rolling. It's all right. Connor was losing anyways.

This one, it was 26 seconds. We have no idea what would have happened. We have no idea what had going on. And it wasn't a foul. It was just a freak occurrence. So, and I think, like, for Joshua Vann, like, he's got to move on now because the reality is Pantosia might be out for a while.

We don't know what the diagnosis is going to be. Probably won't know for a couple days. Apparently the diagnosis is his shoulder. Well, not really. It's an elbow. I don't know why they kept saying his shoulder. But I guess he's going to have like an MRI on his elbow and shoulder. I guess both maybe have been damaged.

I can see his shoulder being hurt. Like you read those tweets last night when people are like, well, I think it was Megan Olivia or something. It was like, oh, the doctor's, which of course she's just the messenger. But, you know, she's not the ones. But they're saying like it's his shoulder. Like, who the hell is? Okay, maybe his shoulder.

shoulders messed up, but did anybody check his elbow? Yeah. Anyone check that thing out? He was holding as he went down to the ground when it popped out of the socket. The thing that went backwards, the joint that went the wrong way. Yeah.

But like, now he has to move forward because the reality is he is the champion, and they're going to probably have him defend that title against somebody else. Like, it's probably not going to, you know, Pantosia's probably not going to be back right away to get it. And then when Pintosh is healthy, he should absolutely get a title shot against whoever's the champion. But, you know, you got Tatsuya Tire who picked up a big one over Brandon Marana. You got Keoguchi who's back who looked phenomenal the other day. Joshua Venn's got to move forward.

And so, like I said, I don't know what you want to go. I understand you in that moment. You're like, oh, man, don't jump up and down celebrate. Like, you just won something because the guy broke his arm. I get that reaction. But like I said, what's the other side? You want the guy to chuck the title on the ground, give Dana wide a middle finger and say, I'm not the champ and walk out.

Like, what level of, like, defiance do you want him to do? Like, I think he said the right things afterwards, which is, it's unfortunate. Of course, I don't want to win it this way. But I'm the champ now. Like, what do you want me to do? Like, he's the champion now. Like, like, Algevin Sterling took a rash and a shit when he had the disqualification with Peter Yon. He got blasted with an illegal knee, and everyone's all you're acting, you're overacting, whatever.

But, like, it's not his fault. He got hit with an illegal shot and couldn't continue. Now, the referee made the decision to do a DQ, which I think was the right call. million times over referees don't make the right call they're like oh you're fine you know you could have continued no contest whatever

but like that wouldn't irritate to me because it's like what is what is Al Jemey's supposed to do like he couldn't continue you want to go out there and continue and get absolutely obliterated with the next punch or like it's not his fault and when they did the rematch Al Jame beat Peter Yan and solidified himself as champion but like I get the celebration in the moment

like dude like he didn't really beat him like he slipped and hurt his arm I get it, but like, I don't know. I just don't know what people want. Like I said, what do you want to chuck the title in the trash and say, okay, go have a tournament? I don't want the $500,000 payday that's coming along with my next fight or the bonuses or all the other things that come along with being the UFC champion? Yeah, man. I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be one of the other either, right?

I mean, what I would like to think I would do myself is I'd just be stoked about it and relax. It's like, hey, you know, yeah, I'm the champion, so fuck you. but you know there's nothing to there's not a ton to celebrate here because because it's not like the belt is supposed to signify that you are the baddest dude in the weight class in the world and if you don't beat the dude who has been recognized as the baddest dude in that way class in the world then are you really but on the other hand it's like when it goes down the history books and people look at the records 100 years from now,

they're not going to know what happened. They're going to see Joshua Vans' name and say, oh, he was a champion. Yeah. I think it's just in the moment, you know what I mean? And I admit I'm guilty to this too, because I remember when Kabib choked out Connor and then jumped over the cage, and the night of the fight was like, dude, you just ruined the moment.

Like, you ruined it because, like, you just beat your rival. Connor's the guy you hated the most. Why did you need to jump over the cage and attack Dylan Dennis? It was really that important. to get at him. Like, you kind of ruin. I was, I overreacted. I was like, oh, you shouldn't have done that.

You ruined the moment. Six months later. I thought that was like, but like, well, that's what I said, perspective, right? Like, afterwards, like, ah, you know what? Like, you know. But here's the thing. If Joshua Van defends the title, right, whoever it is, then I think he's going to be well respected and everybody would be like, oh, cool, you know, you are a champion.

If he goes out and loses his next fight to defend this title, I don't, yeah, you know, that's where it's going to be like. Yeah, you know, you're like, because he kind of got, I guess, you know, there's some debate. Maybe he got an early title shot to begin with. He wasn't really ready for a Pantosia, you know, and then he kind of wins like that. You know, so he's, so now, I think the pressure's on him now. He's got to, if he's going to have that attitude about it, cool, that that's fine. Now the pressure's on.

Now you've got to prove that you deserve this son of a bitch. I think it's almost like, the best way I could say it is I would almost look at it like an interim title. Like he's got the title You got to go out and defend it down It's what it feels like, right? Yeah, like go out and if he beats Tatsuya Tyra who looked great by the way Taking down Brandon Marana and beating him the way he did

Like that was super impressive Go out and beat him Or Kiyoji or Gucci We know how good that guy is You're the champ Like it sucks That it happened But guess what guys retire

I mean Do we do we I mean I know we don't But like we don't question Ilya Tepori's legitimacy Because he didn't beat Islam Like would it have been cool for that fight to happen Sure

Islam's not in the division anymore. He left. And so what are we going to do? Say Ilya's not the real champ because he only knocked out Charles LeVare. Like, I think if Joshua Vann can go out and beat a Tyra or a Hora Gucci, then I'll say, yeah, you're the champ. Like, until Pantosia has a chance to get his rematch, you're the real deal. And then when, when Pantosia comes back, you're going to have to fight him. But it's almost like an interim. It's almost like an interim belt in the way. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content brought to you by CVS. I'm Dr. Ruth Gibartal Williams.

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That's what it feels like. Tyra looked fantastic against Brandon Marino and if that's not deserving of a title shot I don't know what it is I mean he looked fantastic dominated Brandon Marino I mean you know the little

triangle that Brandon kind of tried in the first round was meaningless in my opinion but man Tyra looked fantastic and I think it's a tough matchup for Josh Van too so you know I think he's going to be tested in his first defense if it's Tyra I know you're a big

you're a big believer in going out on your shield letting the guy continue until he can't continue we just saw like, I'm sure you, maybe you saw like Sam Alvey got absolutely demolished on Friday in that karate combat fight and now today with his face all swollen bruised up he's like, don't get mad at the referee, I told him I wanted to go out of my shield

and I'm like yeah I get it like and all the fires, I'll Tim Sylvie, a bunch of fighters in the comments like yeah exactly I want to go out of my shield I'm like yeah but did you really need to get head kicked twice and yeah head kick knocked out already did you really need a second one neither here nor there after the stoppage Brandon you know kind of complain but Brandon is a really nice

guy I don't think you like made a big stink about it but he's like oh you stopped it too early I watched the replay a couple times and I'm just like I don't know man like he was in a bad position he's getting way late on he wasn't really doing anything to get out of there like some guys just don't go away like some guys are just not and like when you're in that turtled up position you can cover your head

and you're not really taking a ton of damage but if you're not reversing you're not rolling you're not trying to get out of there you're just trapped taking punches at what point are we supposed to like, oh, well, don't stop and just let it keep going. Like, what, like, Brandon wasn't doing it. He was just to eat and punishment at that point. Yeah, I feel you.

I thought it was a little bit early. Not like so early that a big causing a big stink about it, though. You know, like I think it's an acceptable stoppage. I would like to see it go even just a couple more punches, you know, like, like let them have a chance, you know. I know that it did, it sure didn't seem like there was anything. he was able to do and you know but he was trying you know he was giving it everything that he had and you know just when i when i've seen fights like remember like neil magni and hector lombard when you see a

fight like that and you're because they could have stopped that fight about five six times in that first round and they didn't and then neil goes on and wins the fight there's you know instances like that where you're like man they can give these guys a couple of extra seconds especially at this level. I get it if you're a regional guy, especially amateur, but like, you know, even a low-level pro, you know, you got to know what you're dealing with. You're dealing with Brandon Marino, former world champion. Let the guy give it every last drop that he has. Yeah, no, I thought it was, I even wrote it on Twitter. I said, it was a little bit early, but I don't think it was like an egregious stoppage. I don't think it was like one of those

ones where you're like, yeah, I agree. You blew it. Like, you blew. I think you could have given him a few more seconds. I don't know that it would have gotten any better for him. Sure, it certainly didn't look like it was going to. But give him that couple more seconds. Let him go out and be done with that. I agree. But I didn't think it was like one of those stoppages where I'm like, what was the referee doing? Like fire that guy. It wasn't like a Dan Mergaly out of situations where I'm like, please never let him referee a fight again. Yeah. I mean, he was, yeah, I'm on the same page, man. That ref was trying to be

extra safe. But again, like you're dealing with a world champion, man. You don't have to be extra safe. But I'm also a fan of a little bit late stoppage. It's best. than a little bit early of a stoppage. Yeah. Real quick, I want to talk about the Armand thing from the Post-Fight press comments, but I want to ask you because I did a lot of interviews last week on different podcasts preview in the car. People were asking me, you know, my opinion on the car. And a lot of the conversation

about Henry Seudo going into retirement fight. And I quoted you like nine times on all these interviews. I said, I do a podcast with Matt Brown. And he brought up a good point with Anthony Smith was retiring that you don't like when guys declare retirement fights because it always kind of feels like they have one foot out the door. Now, to Henry's credit, he wanted to come back because he didn't like the eye poke situation in the Song of Dong Fight. He didn't want that to be his last memory of walking out of the octagon.

And credit to him, I understand that part of it. Man, he got absolutely beaten on by Peyton Talbot last night. And maybe you saw the photo afterwards, bruised, bloody, cut up. Henry Sudo will go down as one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time, without a doubt. Two-division champ, defended both belts. 2008 Olympic gold medalist. But I think last night was another prime example of what you talk about when guys go in these retirement fights because like it felt like the narrative is a passing in the torch.

Like Henry's giving, here's Peyton Talbot now he's a contender. Like it almost felt like, man, I kind of felt badly. Man, Henry, you're going out in your shield. But Jesus Christ, how many brain cells did you lose to go out on your shield like that? Yeah. And it's weird to me because like Henry has other things going on. I don't think he's, I don't think he came back and fought just for the money. Like, he's needing money or whatever.

So it just didn't look like he was well prepared at all for that fight. And it's like, dude, if you're going to do it, at least be well prepared for it. And, I mean, again, five, six, seven years ago, like, I don't think Peyton Talbot beats him or takes him down like he did, especially, and things like that. But I don't really understand that idea. Like, if you're going to go, give it all you got. And I just didn't feel like Henry did that. Like you said, all respect to Henry, you know, if that's how he wants to go out, you know, he's earned that right to do it how he wants to do it.

Well, Henry Suito go down as one of the greatest what-ifs ever. Like, on a four, on four fights in a row, he beats Demetrius Johnson, he beats T.J. Dillishaw. He beats Marlon Marius. he beats Dominic Cruz wins the flyweight title defends it wins the bantamate title defends it

and then retires in the cage after the dominant cruise fight walks away for three years I have no idea what could have happened in that three years span no idea Peter Jan was probably the next guy because him and Aldo end up fighting for the vacant title but there's a huge difference

retiring at whatever it was like 34 and then coming back or whatever I think he retired 33 or whatever came back at 36 or whatever I care he was gone for three years as great as Henry Suhuda was and he was man he's a Hall of Famer without a doubt you wonder like what could have been like what you know what you know what I mean like I don't know like we never got to see him in prime shape against Aldo we never got seen him in prime shape against Peter Yan we never got seen in prime I mean I'm not saying I'm not

discounting mara beating him but I'm saying like what would that look like in a title five five rounds like there is that back of my head just a little bit I'm like man what could have been if you hadn't walked away for three years which to this day I still don't totally understand why he did it. Yeah, it's kind of interesting because you got to guess that he walked away. I got a guess that, you know, his retirement was because he was burned out from, you know, wrestling his whole life and then, you know, coming over combat sports, he was just kind of burned out, maybe just wanted to live a normal life or whatever.

So you kind of have to wonder, okay, if he did stick around, would he still have the same hunger that he did winning those titles and doing those things? maybe he would have just been getting beat up, right? And maybe that what if is actually, you know, what if he stuck around and just got, you know, maybe not even beat up, but just, you know, lost some fights he shouldn't lost and things like that.

So, you know, it's just really hard to tell. But I'm with you, he's a Hall of Famer. And I think all of us can look up to Henry Sehudo as an athlete and the things he's done has been fantastic. Man, I forgot about that run that he had had with those guys. I mean, what a great run, huh? Yeah. Yeah, just, like you said, a Hall of Famer, no question.

And, you know, he's kind of fun to watch sometimes, too, I guess. You know, listen to him and say silly stuff. So, you know, he's a cool character. So, yeah, we got to love Henry Suhudo, man. Got to love the guy. But last night definitely showed it was time. Like, it definitely showed it was time for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, I'm interested to see what Talbot's ceiling is, too, because, I mean, he did look fantastic against Henry Sehudo. I mean, you can't take that away from him. It's just what Henry Sehudo were you beating is the question. Yeah, I mean, and don't forget, Peyton just lost to, you know, Ronnie Bacellas back in January. It wasn't like he's on this, like, undefeated streak, and he was whatever. Like, he just got beat by kind of a mid-range Bantamway. Like, I don't think anyone's going to say Barcellus is like a top-10 guy. So, yeah, I don't know.

Like, what Henry Sehudo did you? beat. I think now we're going to see. Like, he's going to get in those top 15 guys. We're going to find out who Peyton Talbot really is. Maybe he is the next big thing. I don't know. We'll find out of it. Real quick, before you get out of here, Matt, I mentioned it there. During the post-flight press conference, somebody asked Dana White about the decision in the matchmaking for Patty Pimble versus Justin Gaichie. And they asked him about Volcan Lopez. He never really got into it. He's just like, those fights we made, what of it? But they asked him specifically about Armin. Like, Armand beat Dan Hooker. Like, he's the number

one guy, why is he not in there? And Dana flat out said he had his chance. Had his chance in January and he blew it. And obviously we all know what happened. He got to fight with Islam Makashav. He got injured during fight week and dropped out and he had to replace him on last minute with an Atta Moikano,

a guy that Islam dispatched inside of whatever it was around and a half or whatever it was. How long because now that's our answer. It's not that he's not deserving. Dana's not saying he's not the number one contender and he's not no, he's saying you blew it. And you messed up, and now you're going to have to really re-earn our trust.

Reaction to that? Because Dana said the quiet part out loud. Like, he didn't hide it. He didn't say, oh, well, you know, Patty was on a run or Justin's on her. He's like, no, no, no, Armin fucked us over in January, and so we're not giving a title shot. You know, I hope that he has communicated with Armin. It just tells Armin what he needs to do. That's about all we can ask for at this point.

Because as long as Armin's on the same page and he understands that this is. is what it is. I fucked up. I got to do this. I got to do that. I think that's the best we could ask for at this point. As long as he has a path, right? Because right now, it doesn't feel like he has a path, right? Like he's like, I can just go beat guys forever and then never get a title shot. So I just hope they tell them, look, this is what you need to do to earn your good graces back, to get your trust back, and we'll put you in there. Because, you know, the only thing I didn't like the data says yeah we don't care about numbers and it's like well why do we have rankings in what's the whole point here what's the like why do we even do this so yeah I don't know man

I think um I think armand could be all these guys is kind of the problem too right if are they just going to leave them at the number one contender and oh you got to get through arm and get to the title and then it's like well no one's going to get through him so like I guess this happened in January so it was the beginning of this year it's basically 12 months ago

when it happened and part of me like when it happened when Dana said no he's not going to get a shot he's going to have to work his way back at the moment I was like I get it because you had your chance you're on fly week like I understand freak concurrence is happening but what are you doing that you're getting like you know what I mean it's one thing if like you fall down

a flight of stairs or somebody pushes you or You know, you get headbutted away and you get cut, something weird like that. I understand that. But, like, what are you doing during Fight Week that's so strenuous that you're literally injuring yourself that badly to where you can't fight? Probably shouldn't be doing that in the first place. That's probably your first indication. But also, like, in that moment when Dana said he's got to earn, I get it. You were in, like, you were literally days away.

And yes, to their credit, the UFC puts a lot of money into marketing and building a card. And this was supposed to be Islam's toughest fight. And you've got to replace him on 48 hours notice with just a random dude on the card. and then, you know, Islam goes out there and just absolutely, you know, pretty much walks through and Nauton Wicano. I get it. Like, I get the anger there. But let me put it back to you as like a business owner, Matt, because you run a gym.

And maybe you have a guy who is like an assistant manager and he wants to be the manager your gym. He's working really hard. He's right there. You're like, dude, you're right there. I'm going to promote you. And then you're like, here's the deal. I got to go out of town.

Well, I'm out of town. You're going to run the gym for this week. And then you get a call Monday morning. Hey, he didn't show up to work today. I'm not sure what happened. He shows up on Tuesday. Oh, man, you know, I had a car accident or I blew it's hired. He's like, well, did you call?

Did you, what? So, like, in that sense, like, in a business ownership, can you trust that guy then? Like, can you trust to put him in a managerial role after he just, like, he begged for it, he won. He was about there. And he kind of blew it, right? Like he said, he didn't shut up to work one day. Just didn't you a no call, no showed. And that's kind of in a way.

I think that's a good analogy, but that's exactly where I was going with. Like, as long as this is like open communication, they're telling him, look, Armand, this is what you got to do. because in that analogy, that's what I would do. I'd say, look, you fucked me. Now, this is what you got to do to fix it. Just so there's a clear expectation. Yeah. And to a point I get it.

To a point I do get it because you did have a shot. And it wasn't like you lost or, you know, if he goes out there and has what Pantosia happens, his arm breaks on the takedown. Yeah, it sucks and he's not the champion. So maybe you're like, well, you know, you weren't the champion. You were the contender. but yeah you should be able to earn your way back there pretty quickly

like you shouldn't have to go through like the entire gauntlet of lightways to get back to a title shot but to a point I think it's unfair I think or I think Armand should get it and I think the problem with all of us is that we look at Armand and say well this is the guy who could beat Elliot Teporey like this is a guy who could beat Patty Bimble this is a guy who can beat Justin Gachie I think that makes it that much worse because we all look at him and say he probably could be the number one guy in the world

Like he could be the lightweight shaver right now, especially with Islam not around. But we don't know and we won't know because it sure sounds like, sure shit sounds like they're not giving a title shot anytime soon. Yeah, that's what I said. They just got, that's kind of one of my complaints about the way the kind of the UFC is rams, right? There's a lot of things that happen like this where it's just not clear expectations. There's not a set standard like interim titles, for instance, or a situation like this. And there's, it happens pretty regularly where it's.

just kind of you know well ultimately it's Dana in control saying well this is how i feel about us this is what's going to happen and look a lot of times i think it's a great decision and i kind of actually like the way that it happened and it makes for better fights in the future and et cetera it's a lot of good things et cetera et cetera but the fighters left in limbo a lot of times with this right yeah you don't you don't really know what you got to do and it takes away a little bit from the meritocracy of the sport. And that's ultimately what we want to see. Yeah.

Well, I guess Armand, we already kind of talked about it last week. Armand's probably going to be waiting until 2027 to get a title shot because Ilya is out. But when the winner of Patty and Justin, whoever wins that fight, is going to move on to fight Ilya. So, yeah, it looks like we already kind of knew that. But like I said, Dana just kind of said the quiet part out loud so we're not giving a title shot. And they also announced over the weekend. They announced Dan Hooker against Benoit St. Deney in UFC

325, which is a really fun fight, but I know we said, I said last week, that, like, St. Denis was kind of the only guy on a win streak that could potentially even fight Armin right now because he can never beat everyone else. I guess that's not possible, at least right now, unless he beats Dan Hooker, and then maybe you do Benoit versus Armin in the summer, which, I mean, I guess is possible, considering that

Ilya's not going to come back, you know, until second quarter next year anyway, so maybe you do Armin and Benoit or, you know, something like that on the co-main event of I'll versus Patty slash Justin, maybe you do that. They also announced they did officially announce Max versus Charles for the BMF title. And that's a, oh boy, that's going to be a fun fight.

Yeah, it's a great fight. The whole BMF title, I think, you know, we feel about that as silly. But yeah, what a great freaking fight, man. I'm very, very stoked for that. I mean, those two guys, legends, two Hall of Famers with, you know, skills all around and have been in many wars.

I would have liked to see this fight, I don't know, five, six, maybe seven years ago or something, but we're getting it now. And, you know, I'm really interested to see kind of where Max Holloway is, right? You know, because he's his type of guy just kind of, I feel like he's just never going to go away. He's just always going to be coming back and beating people up. Probably how old is he now? Like I feel like he's going to be doing this like into his late 40s. Like he might be 50 years old and just show up and be like, I don't know.

I'm a peck at you guys with my fist a little bit. I think he's like 32, actually. He's still very young. That's what I thought. I love it because, like, you know, yes, Max did lose to Ilya, and that was, you know, an unfortunate thing to happen. Credit to Iliate to Poirier for going on one of those incredible runs where he knocked out Volk and Holloway back to back.

But, you know, you can't forget the Gagee knockout of the UFC 300, one of the most iconic moments over. And then he went out there and pieced up Dusty in his retirement fight. I mean, yeah, there were a couple moments Dustin had, but that was largely a Max Holloway, like, it felt kind of like Henry Seudo on Saturday night. We were kind of like, yeah, Dustin, you're probably making the right choice to walk away now because Max beat him up pretty good and definitely had some, I mean, close finishes in that fight. So, yeah, like, Max is still right there.

And I know, you know, I know people probably aren't going to be pounding on the drum for him to fight Ilya again, but it is a different weight class. And you don't know. I mean, like I said, I think Max is probably going to be healthier and happier being at 155 and not having to kill himself to get to 1.45. Maybe there's a, maybe the Ilierematch goes differently. I don't know. Like, he looked, Max looked good early in the fight with Ilya,

and then obviously Ilya took over and knocked him out whatever was third round or whatever. But wasn't like Max looked terrible in that fight. Like, he had a good game plan and, you know, I'll beat him. But Max is still right there, man. And like I say, say what you about Charles, man. He lost a very close fight to Armin. Obviously, he lost a fight to Ilya after, after another win.

But then, you know, he goes out there and absolutely demolish his Matush Gammar. He was a super tough guy. Charles isn't done yet either. No, no, that's exactly right. And, man, I didn't realize Max was only 32. I thought it was at least like 35, 36. He's been around for such a long time. But, you know, it's generally considered about 30 to 35 is your prime.

So, you know, Max is like just now coming into his prime. Obviously, he's got a lot of, you know, a lot of miles on those tires, right? Who knows how much tread is left on him? But, man, to think that he could just now be coming into his prime, that's a pretty fascinating thing to think, isn't it? I always say, and I talked about this with Jim Miller when I can't remember who it was. It was Michael Bistfing, who I have a ton of respect. Or no, I knew it was Daniel Cormier, who obviously I have a ton of respect for, a friend of mine as well, when he said that he didn't think longevity should be a criteria for getting the Hall of Fame. We had that debate.

We talked about it on the show before when Jim Miller. And I said, Jim Miller is absolutely a Hall of Fame. You do not get to the most wins, most fights, most appearances in UFC history, spend the past like 15 years in the organization of that kind of record, 20 years, however the hell long he's been in there. and not put him in the Hall of Fame but that's a Hall of Fame career I don't care how you got I don't care you became a champion or not doing what he did staying at that level of the sport we were on the fringe of the top 15 pretty much for your entire UFC career I don't care that's a that's a Hall of Fame career

and I think to a certain extent like obviously Max is going to day one be in the Hall of Fame he's a Fedaway champion all this kind of things but like he got in at like 20 years old and step on a short notice and a featherway fight against Max Holloway lost or against Dustoporia excuse me lost goes on these incredible winstrings think about all the moments, the Ricardo Lamas point down, the Ryan Ortega fight, you know, all the things. And here he is in 2025 still doing the damn thing.

Like, dude, like, Max is going to get in the Hall of Fame based on just a long list of accomplishments. But we've got to get longevity being part of the reason why, because my God, like, to be at this level for as long as he has, ridiculous. I think he ticks every box, right? Like, he could be in the Hall of Fame for the epic fights he's had. He could be in the Hall of Fame because of the title fights he's had. He could be in the Hall of Fame for the longevity, I don't know, the skills that he has.

Like, you know, just the big fights like with Connor and, I mean, like Max has done everything you could possibly do in this sport. And the fact that he's still coming and still making big fights is amazing. And again, to think he might just be coming into his prime now, we could still see a lot of big things from Max Holloway. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities. finding for a lightweight title. He beats Charles Oliveri, he's right there. Like, I don't know how much probably he'd have to go. So, yeah, it's going to be ridiculous, man. So we get, this weekend, we do have a fight card. We have the Manilcott, Brandon Roy Vol fight card, which is a great main event. Rest the card's okay. It's an apex card, but it's what it is. And then

next week, we got your favorite party of the year, Anthony, Joshua, and Jake Paul. So we'll probably be talking about that in the near future as well. And then we get a big break. Got about a six-week break between there and the next UFC card going into Paramount, which obviously we'll, I think I mentioned on our last week's show, we're going to do our quick breakdown of Paul Joshua afterwards. You're going to go on vacation. We're going to take a couple weeks off and come back and do our 2026 preview show. So we'll be off the air for a couple weeks after that.

But we got Apex this weekend and next week in the big box match, Jake Paul and Anthony Joshua. Of course, we'll break that down next week. How real is that one going to be? We'll talk about that next week. We won't get into it right now. Matt, where can people check out? They want to support you and what you got going on? at I'm the Immortal

Instagram and Twitter the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook and check out the Vitifuel V-I-T-A-P-H-U-E-L

for the creatine. We're offering subscriptions now so you don't have to get a store you can just get creatine

shipped to your house every month at the Immortal Coffee we also have subscriptions there which is good yeah

I probably got some other stuff going on too you know how it is yeah well we obviously appreciate everyone the tunes in the show make sure you check us out every week

on all your favorite podcast platforms Apple Podcasts Spotify and of course over the best website in the world MMA fighting and we'll be back next week to talk about it and then fallout from the Manel Cop Brandon Roy Volvite and obviously I joke but in all seriousness we will preview Jake Paul and Andrew and I say

Anderson and Anthony Joshua and Anderson Silva Tyler Woodley too by the way that's also next weekend so I'm on the same card yeah boxing match so we'll talk about that as well so stay tuned for that. As always I want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes in the show. We'll be back next week with another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider.

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