MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Praises Sean Strickland But Explains Why Israel Adesanya Should Get Immediate Rematch

Episode Date: September 12, 2023

On the heels of Sean Strickland’s stunning performance to beat Israel Adesanya in the UFC 293 main event, The Fighter vs. The Writer looks back at the card and how Strickland was able to pull off such a shocking upset. UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin will discuss Strickland’s performance and how he was able to largely dominate Adesanya over the course of a five round fight. Brown praises Strickland’s win but he also explains why he believes Adesanya should get an immediate rematch if that’s what he wants. This week, we’ll also talk about the upcoming title fight between Alexa Grasso and Valentina Shevchenko at Noche UFC. Shevchenko lost her title in a similar upset but can she right the ship when she faces Grasso again on Saturday? Plus we’ll discuss Dillon Danis facing a lawsuit for his online trolling, Tyson Fury saying he could beat Francis Ngannou in an MMA fighting and Brown backing Jake Paul to actually defeat Nate Diaz if they met in the cage. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine, available now, only from Audible. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Rider. I'm your host as always, Damon Martin, and I am wrong, because after UFC 2903, I'm happy to admit I was wrong. And I am joined today by another man who is a UFC legend. He was also wrong.

We live in a world now, Matt Brown, where Sean Strickland is the UFC middleweight champion of the world. I try to convince you, bro, but you convince me out of it. I, uh, you think of convincing you. Yeah, there's no such thing as a sure thing in the sport. We all know that. And you said that, very honestly, you said that, but this felt going into it like a sure thing. And I guess that's when you should just know that like something's going to, something weird is going to happen. but that's exactly what did happen on Saturday night.

Sean Strickland defeated Israel Adisanya, became the new win champion. I mean, and you know what I'll say about that real quick? He didn't just go out and get, I mean, he almost did. He went out,

he didn't get a flash knockdown or a knockout. You know what I mean? He didn't put him away inside one round. Now, he almost did, but he didn't. He ended up beating him 49, 46. That means he won four out of five rounds. And the four rounds he won weren't really close. Like,

it wasn't like Adasanya was in the fight and there were a couple dicey moments like Adasanya won the second round that's it like this was this was the picture of a dominant win and even that second round wasn't like like Izzy didn't run away with it like it was still like

it was still a close round you know it wasn't like a dominating round by Izzy either and you could arguably call round one 10 8 because you know I mean he was on his way out, right? Like, that was, that was really close. So, you know, you got, I was arguing with myself all day about, you know, man, I kept thinking, boy, Izzy just looked, not himself, right?

But I'll tell you what, rather than saying it wasn't Izzy being himself, like, like, the more I thought about, I said, no, Sean Strickland made Izzy not be himself. But you have to give all the credit to Sean Strickland. He got the fucking job done. and he did it very, very fucking well. You, uh, it's like you read my mind because we do have a tendency in the sport when, when really good fighters have a bad night at the office. We start, what's wrong with Israel out of Sonia? Like what happened?

He looked like this. He looked like that. No, what he looked like was a guy who got beaten by Sean Strickland, a guy who took it to him showed no fear step into the pocket. And I think that that first knockdown just completely altered the fun. Right. I think Otisanya, in my opinion, this is just my opinion, I think he went in there thinking, I'm going to make easy work out of this dude. This dude doesn't belong in there. And guess what? About 95% of the MMA audience probably agreed he didn't really belong in there with Israel Adasanya. I mean, he was on a two-fight win streak and his two wins were nowhere near the top of the division. No one was sitting there banging the drum saying, man, Sean Strickland really needs this title shot. I think Israel Adasanya thought he was just a much better fighter than Sean Strickland. and Sean Strickland carried that attitude in there that I just don't give a shit. And he went in there and just took it to Israel, Adasania.

And I think that first, though, when he landed that right hand that knocked Adasanya down and it looked like it was over. And boy, I tell you what, that was as close to a stoppage as you could get. He was hammering out of Sania with punches. Credit to Izzy for sticking around. But I think that was it. I just think that was it. I think at that moment it was over. Like not over in terms of like the fight should have been stopped.

I think he just beat Israel out of Sanya in that moment and Izzy never came back and Sean put on a brilliant performance and a great game plan to do it. I do hate when we diminish someone's win by sitting here questioning why another guy lost. I just think Sean Strickland was a better fighter on Saturday nights. Yeah, I had to wonder, you know, because originally my thought was, you know,

Izzy didn't fight himself. He wasn't doing as well as he could have done or should have done. and mainly because he didn't adjust, right? Like Sean landed that big punch in the first round, and then like Izzy didn't adjust. And Izzy wasn't saying to himself in the corner, you know, I'm willing to die for this like he did in the Gasolam fight, right? And he didn't go out there and try to find a way.

So, you know, my first thought was, you know, what's going on with Izzy? Like he's not being himself. He's not adjusting to this fight. And then the more I thought about it was like, like, Sean did not let him adjust. Like, Sean kept the pressure on him. And Izzy basically fought the, at least the last three rounds. You could arguably say four, you could arguably say L5 just to survive. Like he didn't find hardly any offense whatsoever.

Everything he threw at Sean, Sean seen it and defended it well. Like, I don't know if he, if Izzy landed a really clean punch, like one time. I don't think he did. I don't think he did. And I think that like from the very first moment of the fight, he did what we thought he would do. He backed up against the occasion to let Sean come forward. And we both agreed like that's a dangerous game to play with Israel out of Sonia because he's such a good counterstriker.

But Strickland's defense was good. And then what this, what I think Strickland did really well was he didn't get he got he got too close to Izzy. And what I mean by that is he didn't stand on the end of Izzy's punches and kicks. He actually got just a little bit too close so Izzy couldn't use that long jab in those long kicks. And so it was just like he didn't like, he wasn't fighting from the clinch. He was just like six inches closer to where Izzy couldn't really react with his punches, couldn't really snipe him from the outside. And then he just kept putting it on and putting him on and putting him on him. And then it just took, it took Israel completely out of his rhythm.

and then as you said he just never got going after that like he kind of shifted into almost like as you said like almost shifting into i just want to survive here because strickland was just all over him and never gave him a minute to breathe and the best punches from round one to round five were all landed by sean strickland like i don't as you said i don't really remember a significant moment where i thought man is he's getting him like did izzie win one round you Yeah, but even you said, it was a closer round. It wasn't like you blew him out of the water that one round. And Sean clearly won every other round.

Like, it wasn't, it wasn't, there was no question of my mind that Sean won every other round. Yeah, I had the feeling the whole fight that Izzy was setting something up, setting a trap, you know, setting, uh, just setting something up. And it seemed like it never came. Like Sean, that's why I started to credit Sean more. Like, Sean never fell for the bullshit. And I'm not saying, I'm not, you know, diminishing. what Izzy does and calling it bullshit. But, you know, like he throws a lot of those funny things to get you off your game.

He throws a lot of those faints to get you thinking about what he's doing. And Sean just bit down his mouthpiece and said, fuck it. I don't care what you do. I'm coming forward and I'm going to hit you. And, you know, he worked his jab very, very well, which we knew he would at least try to do. We just didn't think that it would work against Izzy. But we knew that that would be what Sean would do. that's what he's done to every single person that he's fought.

But he just he didn't fall for any of the, you know, I call it bullshit, but you know, the traps or whatever, the setups that Izzy was going for. And then it seemed like once Izzy was out of that, he didn't start searching for anything else. He kept searching for the same thing over and over. And that's why, you know, I still don't think it was, you know, I still wanted to, you know, It was still not one of Izzy's best performances,

but I give credit to Sean for it, not being one of Izzy's best performances, but I still think like Izzy could have done better. Yeah, you know what I realized, I woke up this morning, and I realized not only that Sean Strickland is actually the champion, I didn't live in a dream last night, but in reality, Matt, what I realized last night

is this is really the first time we've seen it in the UFC, this is really the first time we've seen Israel out of Sanya get truly beaten. And what I mean by that, is when he lost to Alex Pereira, he was up. He was winning. Alex came in with a fifth. Yeah, he got knocked out by Alice Pereira in the fifth round, but he was winning that fight.

He lost to Jan Blahovic three, two, three rounds to two, and it was largely just the takedown in that, and later in the fight. He didn't get beat up. He didn't get beat down. He just lost to a larger, better man on the ground. But again, he didn't really get beat up. He basically lost because he was outweighed and outsized,

and he got taken down. he got beaten on Saturday night. Like we saw, as you said, he got out classed on Saturday night. That's something we've never seen in Israel, Adasanya's entire UFC career. Like, I think that's what makes this one so special is when you really think about it, he's never had that. Even the fights he's lost, the two other fights he's lost, he had a moment. Like, if he would have won that fifth round against Jan Belhovic, he would be a two-division champion. If he would have waited out three more minutes against Alex Pere in their first fight,

he would have beaten the boogeyman back then he wouldn't even need to rematch you know what I mean like he was winning this time there was no question he got absolutely dominated for 21 or 23 minutes or 22 minutes whatever you want to say of a 25 minute fight and almost finished also you know like like prayer I think he's the only guy that's ever finished him right yeah yeah absolutely like ever finished him and then you know he came back and avenge that lost and and like no one else that I remember has ever even really come close to finishing Izzy. No, I mean, he had some, he had a bit of a slugfest with Kelvin Gasolam, but he never went down. Like he just got, he just, they beat the hell out of each other, but neither one of them was like out of there. And I guess that's kind of my, uh, my thing about Izzy for the, like I didn't, when, when he fought gas to him, like he bit down in his mouthpiece and sucked it up

and went through a fucking war. I like, I couldn't understand why he wasn't willing to do that against Sean Strickland. And maybe it was because of that knockdown early on. Maybe Sean brings, you know, more than we give him credit for, right? Maybe he's got more power than we give him credit for. Maybe, you know, there's something. I don't know. But maybe Sean was just so relaxed about it, like, just didn't give a fuck.

Because it seems, it's so odd watching it. You know, when we watched Sean stand there with straight legs, looking completely unathletic with his left hand down, just throwing jabs, like slipping punches the wrong way. like everything that if you go to a boxing gym they're going to everything you're doing they're going to tell you is wrong except for you know maybe you got a good jab right and and then he goes in there and beats a guy like izzie at izzie's game it's it's fascinating and it's mind-blowing yeah it really is and i think they mentioned it in the broadcast last night there's somebody brought

up during pre-fight but john strickland does actually have weirdly does have good defense on the defeat, like he doesn't get hit a lot. Like, he kind of, like when he lost to Jared Canaanier, which, you know, it was a close fight. I'm not going to sit there and re-rescore that fight. But even that fight, like, Cannoneneer was very cautious about overextending on Sean Strickland because Sean Strickland's a volume striker. And he also has shown pretty good defense.

It's hard to just hit him a lot. You know what I mean? Alex Pereer caught him clean and put him out. Credit to Alex Pereer. Of course, he's one of the nastiest dangerous strikers ever in the history of kickboxing or M.A. but I think Israel like you could see it especially in like that third round and that fourth round like it almost looked like he got frustrated because he couldn't really land anything now to be to be really fair Israel wasn't really throwing as much as you said at no point did he really throw caution to the wind and just say let's just go like let's just throw down and see the better man wins but I think at some point so he got frustrated like he was glancing off of off of Strickland he would glance off the shoulder he would kind of glance off the side he would miss and again you is that Izzy's accuracy or is that Strickland's defense? I think it's more about Strickland's defense because Strickland was in his face all night long.

Like Strickland never played the like one, two, back out game. Like he just stood there. Like he just stood there and just beat up Israel out of Sanya. And is he just, he just had no answer. And again, maybe it was that first round. Maybe when he, maybe he, maybe he had a little bit of disregard for Sean Strickland. And then he just, when he got knocked down and nearly finished, he just never came back from that. Maybe he got discouraged because when he did throw his punches, he just couldn't land.

And then at that point, it was just like everything went from bad to worse. I don't know. But I do know the reason why Israel out of Sonia lost is because Sean Strickland just beat him at every facet of the game. He would not let Israel settle into any kind of rhythm. He never let Israel get any kind of volume going. He never let Israel control the fight. And that is 100% what every other fight. fighter has done fighting Israel

Adasani with the exception to maybe Alex Pereira because Alex had so much experience with Israel previously, you let Israel control the dance. You let him control the pace, whether that's slow, fast, forward, backwards, whatever it is. You let him dictate it and you're fighting his style, whether he's playing counterfight or he's coming

forward. You play into his style, he will eventually pick you apart and beat you. Sean didn't do that. Sean's just like, fuck it. I'm going to step forward and throw it this guy to be knocks me out he knocks me out and nothing nothing ever came to that and you got to love it right i mean you know the guy coming in and beating the odds like that and you know you know you only get one of those chances in your life you know most people don't even get that one chance he got that

one chance and he fucking you know he took that chance man and he went in and and he performed and you got to really be amazed by that right you got to you got to you got to you got to to be impressed. You have to give him the respect for what he did. I know a lot of people don't care too much for his personality and the way he talks and all that kind of stuff, but you got to give him props for what he did last night, man. And I'll tell you, I wasn't even going to watch the fight. I come home. I had my guy, a couple of my guys fighting last night down Cincinnati, two-hour drive from here. So I get home right around the time that the fight was starting. So I was like, well, I'm not going to pay, you know, however much money just to watch this one fight that,

you know, in all, uh, and with all respect, you know, I'm like, well, Izzy's going to win this fight, right? So, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to watch this fight. But right before I lay down to go to bed, I checked Twitter just to see if anything's going on with the fight. And I see that Strickland almost finishes him in round one. And I heard my son downstairs going, whoa, Oh, like this, right? So I go ahead and come downstairs and hear my son, who's not supposed to have his phone in bed, is sitting there in bed with his phone streaming the fight.

Sorry, Dana. He's 12 years old. You can forgive him. But he's in a stream in the fight. So I lay down in bed with him. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? Like the collective world of MMA, I think every single person sat,

if you read through Twitter and you sat there and you watched that fight. Every single person is saying, what in the fuck is going on here? And Sean Strickland upset the entire MMA world, not just Izzy. Like he upset everybody that didn't believe in him. So you got to give this guy all the props in the world, man. And I love him for doing it. Yeah. I mean, listen, Sean Strickland is a little wacky. I think we all agree on that. And he's a little out there. And he says some things that maybe we don't all agree with. And I don't even know things I don't agree with. He just, like, he just says, I think he says wild things just to say them. Like, he'll say the things about, like, women. And I just, I'm not interested in it, but I also wonder if part of it's

not an act. Like, maybe part of it's really who Sean is, but I also think, you know, Sean realizes he strikes a nerve. And so it's like, it's going to keep pressing at that nerve. That's what you do. I mean, I get it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if he's really that dude 24-7. I do know some of his teammates and people who train with him say he is that, you know, out there. but I also know that a lot of people who train with him and work with him every day love him. They love working with him. They love working with Sean. And his head coach, Eric Nixick, is an incredible head coach.

I texted, I literally, so here's a funny story. So I, listen, we did the podcast, Matt. I said, like, I'm not, I'm picking Israel out of Sonia. I'm not, you know, I'm not even, I'm not even fathoming a world where Sean Strickland wins. And boy, did it. Was I wrong? So as soon as the fight was over, I texted Eric Nixig and I said, coach, I was wrong. I admit I was wrong.

I'm not even trying to pitch to pretend I wasn't wrong. Congratulations to you and the team. And he sent me a message today just saying thank you for everything. But it was just funny. I was like, dude, I'll admit it. Like, I was off. Like, I'm not even going to sit here in a fake. Like, I was the one guy to pick Sean Strickland.

Nope, sure didn't. But yeah, I mean, listen, Sean got the job done and he deserves all the praise the world. Like I said, I don't really care what you think about him. I'm not sitting here saying like I'm his biggest fan in terms of like some of the weird crazy things he says. But he's a hell of a fighter and he went out there. And again, I'm not taking away Alex Pereira's win. I'm certainly not taking away Jan Belahovic's win.

I'm just saying, in my opinion, Matt, he's the first guy to really go out there. And as you were to use that, you use the word outclassed. He's the first guy to really outclass Israel out of Sondi. We've never seen that before. So, man, hats off to him. And also, let's give hats off to Eric Nixick and the guys at Extreme Couture. I mean, when I talked to Eric weeks ago and we talked about the fight, he was like, he admitted it. He's like, oh, no, no, it's a horrible fucking matchup.

Like, it's terrible. Like, we know that. Like, we're going to have to make it ugly. we're going to have to do some odd things. And I think doing what Sean did was odd. He didn't play Israel's game. He didn't stand on the outside. He didn't show any fear of Israel.

He didn't show any fear of reprisal. That is, that, that's one of those performances where you're like, obviously Sean deserves all the credit because he's the fighter, but let's also give credit to his head coach and the team who broke it down and had a strategy to go in there beat him. And listen to their corner work during the fight, they did an amazing job. I thought they said all the right things. you could tell they they were you know Eric works very closely with Sean you can tell their close friends and you can tell he knew exactly what to say to him and it rung through to him and you know when you're talking about it being odd the oddest thing was that it was not odd because Sean Strickland

fought Sean Strickland's fight I like I we were when we were talking about before I you know I was trying to convince you that Strickland has a chance and then you convince me and then I reconvinced myself. I was like, yeah, I'm completely wrong on saying that. How did I even come up with that? Right? And but the original thought that I was coming over there was like, dude, Sean Strickland is going to pull something out different.

He's got a lot of skills that we haven't seen, right? Like he's not going to do the standard Sean Strickland fight because that's the worst matchup is Izzy with the standard Sean Strickland fight. But the odd part is he didn't do anything odd. He went in there and fought the Sean Strickland fight the way that he fights, the way he fought Alex Pereira and got knocked out for her. yeah he didn't go in there shooting for double legs or you know trying to do anything like you thought like we thought maybe he could like get to mix things up and surprise is really he did exactly what he

always does they were even telling him to do it in the corner i were hearing it like erin nissi was saying we said you know throw a double leg in there throw it take it and Sean just like no fuck it like i'm just going to be me and do what i do it and it fucking worked and it worked beautifully so it's just it's mind blowing right it really is. It really is. So, listen, you know, we're all prisoners of the moment, Matt. As soon as the fights over, we're immediately thinking about what's next. I've had many, many interviews after fights, and I'm always like, listen, we're all guilty of this. We all get excited about what comes next, especially after a big win. And I know Dana White, you know, afterwards was kind of like,

you know, he was just confused by Israel's performance and he did the thing. And I don't think he was in any way diminishing Sean's win. I think he was just falling into the pattern that we're all guilty of like what happened to Israel you know what I mean like we get it I understand it Israel's an all-time great and so when he has a bad night you're like what happened again I think it was just Sean Strickland beat him and that's what happened um but Dana was like you know I think you do an immediate rematch you do you run away you write a back and I'm like why like don't get me wrong Israel's an incredible champion like he is and I you know while this was technically his first title defense because he lost Pereira and then beat Pereira like he's a

he's a long-reigning champion and I don't care like when when Valentina Shepchenko who we're going to talk about later she has a fight with Alexa Grasso in a matter of days when she lost she got choked out but I was like well yeah you give her an immediate rematch she was like a seven-time defending champion no one a flywood had touched her yeah of course you give her the rematch and this one mad I'm kind of like why like Israel didn't just get caught he didn't just get like he wasn't the Pereira fight where he was up and winning and then he got caught and he was. or the or even the Blahovic fight where he got taken down and it was like, okay, the difference was the wrestling and he just got taken down and couldn't get back up again. He got beat in every facet of the game. He got beat with power punches. He got beat with volume. He got beat with just overall striking.

He got beat with control, aggression. Every scoring metric in the scoring manual, he got beat on Saturday night. So as much as I love Israel ad to Sonia, and I do. And we talked about this on the last week's podcast. like we love Israel but I don't justify a rematch off of that like I don't it doesn't make sense to me like I don't really want to see it again right away like if Israel can come out and get a big winner to you sure but like what I don't I don't really see a reason to run a back right away yeah and I've read a lot of those opinions too on on Twitter and Instagram and everything and actually I totally get where you guys come from I'm going to offer a different point though like the reason that he deserves an immediate rematch and my opinion, and not necessarily immediate. Like, I think he needs a little bit of time off first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's been, I think he must have been one of the most active champions in UFC history. I mean, he's been through the grinder, taking every oncomer. But the reason that I

think he shouldn't have to fight someone else is not because of his performance against Strickland, but because of his accolades leading up, like all the fights that he's done leading up. Like we just said, like we just said, he's had an extremely busy schedule for a, champion. He's completely dominated almost everyone except for Pereira and now Strickland. He's not really completely dominated, but he's had amazing fights. I think he's earned the right to not have to re-fight, work his way back to a title. I think he's earned the right that he should be able to get a rematch basically anytime he ever loses a title and for the rest of his life. Now whether, you know, again, I think he needs to take time off and whether Strickland takes

someone in the meantime, you know, assuming that Izzy takes my advice, which who am I to tell him? But, you know, assuming he does take time off, if Strickland was someone in the meantime, I think that's totally fair. But I think based off of Izzy's record and, you know, what he's done, the entirety of his career, he should be able to fight for the title anytime he wants. Yeah, I mean, listen, you're not totally wrong. And I don't totally disagree with that. What I actually really do agree with you though is is that I agree Israel needs to take some time off I think this is like his fourth fight

inside like 12 months like he fought Canaanere he fought Pereira he fought Pereira again and now he fought Strickland I think that's all within like literally within like a 11 maybe like a 13 month stretch or something like that yeah take some time off like I know he loves being active

and I actually kind of joked with him when I interviewed him before the fight and I said you're as champion you're more active than some of the contenders and he kind of laughed he's like isn't that funny well, that's also a strain. You know what I mean? Like, you don't really get a break. You don't let your body rest.

You don't get your mind right. There's a reason why most champions fight at most twice a year. Like, that's pretty common for champions to only fight twice a year because it is a lot. So, yeah, I agree with you there. Take time off. Like, that should be number one. Take some time off. Get your mind right.

Get your body right. All those kind of things. If Strickland wants to fight Dracus Duplice or maybe he fights the winner of Hamzan, Paulo Costa and defends the title, you know, go that route. and didn't come back from that. And maybe Israel comes back next year and fight somewhere. Maybe it's Strickland. Maybe it's somebody else.

I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, I don't totally disagree with that. I'm just basing it on the performance itself. Like, if you just base it on the performance, I don't really need to see that one again right away. But if it follows your strategy where at least we say, okay, take six months off.

Like, just take some time off, man. Like, just break. Take a break. And Strickland fights somebody else in the meantime. Then I'd be a little bit more after that. I just don't need to see it's September. By January, I don't need to see Audasanya Strickland, too, is what I'm saying. Like, I don't need to see that four months for now, five months from now.

Like, I need, I don't need that right away. Yeah, and I hope that Izzy doesn't need that right away either. And I think, again, the stress of being a champion is just absolutely, you know, nothing we can even comprehend, you know, and I was never champion, but I was, you know, top contender. And the stress of just being right there, you know, doesn't even compare to being a champion, you know, between the media responsibilities. the people around you, the, you know, your schedule. I mean, you're fighting the best guy in the world every single time.

I mean, that's enough right there in and in of itself, not even minding the outside shit you got to deal with. So, you know, I say, you know, Izzy, take a break, rest up, get mentally healthy, get hungry again. Because yet again, I'm giving all the credits of Strickland because I think he took everything away from Izzy and F. fight. But if there was, if it was just simply, is he not being himself, which is possible to, but, you know, again, we're not going to take credit away from Strickland. If it was Izzy, not

being himself, the first thing we're going to look to is like he's just had too much of a tough schedule. And he was just burned out and was like, dude, I don't really feel like fighting tonight. He looked like he was sparring in there. You know, I mean, and that's what it looked like to me, you know, like it was just another day going through the motions. And he just didn't have that hunger. So maybe a little bit of time off he'll get that hunger back. And maybe one thing Dana did kind of say last night that I agree is he said like, you know, you come up those two fights of prayer. Those two fights for prayer were incredibly emotional. Like those were, that was the height of like everything you built for, everything you worked for in the sport came crashing down around

you when Alex Pereira did exactly what everyone thought maybe he could do. Because we said at the time, like Alex Prayer was an incredible fighter, but he didn't really deserve, he didn't earn that like come on now like no one's going to sit here and say the prayer went through walk through fire to get that towel shot he knocked out sean strickland which now looks better than it did at the time let's be honest but like he didn't have to be whittaker he didn't go through vittorian canoneer and and paolo costa and all those guys like he had one basically one really quality top 10 win and then he got the shot because he had the history and that was like the worst the absolute worst case scenario for israel out of sanya was to lose to

Pereira, the guy that was supposed to be his boogeyman. And then to come back from that, five months later, and vanquish Pereira, knock him out cold the way he did. I mean, that is like, that is, that's, it's like, it's like, uh, Anderson Silva going through those two just really just nasty fights with Shell Sondon. There was so much bad blood there. He had to pull off a last second win to beat him the first time. He was losing the fight.

And then he came in a second time and he just went out there and took it to his shale and beat him. You come out like the emotional low of that. you come out of that and you're like oh here's chris wideman like you know this young up-and-coming wrestler who's you know nice guy and just you know the fierce young athlete again not certainly not making excuses for Anderson and i'm not making excuse for Israel but like that's and and also he started building this rivalry or dracus like they had started really building the rivalry there was a lot of bad blood there and then that goes away and now here's sean strickland like

again Sean strickland deserves all the credit in the world but all these things combined absolutely could play a factor. And like, is it like you said, like the emotional letdown of that. Like you went from Pereira, Pereira to Dracus to, oh yeah,

here's random guy, Sean Strickland, who doesn't really deserve this, but we need you to fight in Australia. So here he is. Yeah. And that's it. Again,

you know, those are all great points. So, you know, like I said, I think Fizzy takes a little bit of time off. I think it would serve him very well. I mean,

he's done just such amazing things. And if he comes back and, you know, goes on another streak like that, you know, wins four or five more fights, you know. I mean, he's got to be getting close to, like, being one of the greatest ever, right? Especially if he comes back and beat Strickland and, you know, comes back and puts on some great performances again. I mean, we know what he's capable of.

We've seen him capable of amazing things. And again, I don't want to take anything away from Strickland this whole time, but like Izzy didn't look like he had anything special in him. He looked very normal last night. That's all there was to it, right? He looked very normal. And, you know, I'm going to credit Strickland for doing that to him. But maybe all these other factors play a part also.

Yeah, I'm going into the fight, I wrongly convinced you. I think you've rightly convinced me here, Matt. I'm going to go ahead and agree with you. I'm okay with him getting rematch as long as it's not right away. Like, I just wanted him to take some time off. Maybe Strickland fights someone else in the meantime. Hamzot, maybe he fights Dracus, one of those guys. let Izzy take six, seven months off.

Like, that's my, I agree with you there. That's my biggest thing. Like, I'm certainly no one to give Israel out of Sonia advice, but, like, that would be my advice. Dude, just take a break. Get your mind right, get your mind off of it. Enjoy some downtime with your family, your friends, you'll do some fun things, shoot a movie, whatever the hell you want to do. And then when you're ready in January, February, to start training again, then come back.

You know what I mean? Like, I think that, I just, what I don't want is they're like, okay, we got a card in December, let's throw you know January we're going to see it again I'm like no I let's let's let him have a break as long as he can take a break and he's willing to take a break I have far less problem if he comes back to a title shot but even if it happened in December like just when you're sitting there mention I say it was immediate I'd have a hard time not getting excited for it probably more excited than I was Saturday afternoon for the fight you know what I'm saying right because because I was not excited at all for that fight yesterday afternoon.

Right? But if they said, okay, they're fighting again next week. I think I would be more excited than I was last Saturday afternoon. Oh, I would be too. I'd absolutely be way more excited now that we saw it all happen. Like watching it unfold last night, I was like, what is going on here? And so, yeah, I'd be much more excited for the rematch. Yeah, it was, like I said, I mean, Sean Strickland won.

I think that's the, again, I want to give credit to creditors. do Sean Strickland won. Congratulations to him. And I agree, you've convinced me, Matt. I'm okay if Israel comes back and gets the rematch as long as he takes a break. I just don't want to see it immediately because you're like, you rush a guy back in there. Is really that much going to change if you don't let him just kind of like decompress from all this? And, you know, he's been a super active champion, the emotional rivalry of Pereira and all that kind of stuff.

Let him take a little break. Let him get some vacation time. Let him get a break. And then maybe we'll run it back next year. and we'll see a different result. Maybe it'll be the same result. I guess we'll find out at that point. But I just don't want,

when Dana says like immediate rematch, I'm just like, you know, I just, you know, it's like, it's like strictly one out there put on the perfect game plan,

beat Israel out of Sania four rounds to one. And his reward is, let's do it again. Like, like, I don't know. I mean, that's just me.

That was kind of my initial reaction when he said it, so. He'd been real, like, if Izzy literally just disappeared like a ghost for a few months, and then he like we could that fight would be easy to hype up

him saying I'm coming back and I'm gonna beat his ass this time you know what I'm saying like that would get me pretty hyped up yeah I agree I would agree but yeah take a break first I think you're right you need to take a break just get away from it all real quick before we get to the next car which is the no J UFC card coming up next weekend

tied to Ivasa went out there and had another tough night. He lost with an Ezekiel choke, which is a very rare submission to see without a gie on. Only the fourth time in UFC history to see that twice by Alexi Olenik and once by Rimco Pardu all the way back in the day. Tye's now lost three in a row. Tough spot, man, it was a tough spot for a couple of the Australians on the top of the

card, man. Like, Ty, obviously Israel's from New Zealand and, well, Nigeria and New Zealand, but from that area. I was like, man, that's a rough night for the Australian crowd. Ty goes out there and loses. and Alexander Volkov looked great, man. Like that was a brilliant performance of Volkov. Like he never let Ty get going.

Like Ty's whole like, let's just step into the pocket and throw. Volkov's like, nope, not going to do that. And he just beat him up, beat up his legs, took him down, choked him. It was a really good performance from Volkov. And yeah, really good performance for Sean Strickland. Nice. So I said, well, you know, I wish I could comment on more. I wasn't able to watch it all last night because I had two guys fighting.

my one guy, Big Cam, he went four and O, got a first round knockout last night, gets the toughest guy he's fault so far. And then I had to, usually I get up early on Sunday morning and watch the fights. Usually I don't even stay up to watch all the fights anyway. I just wake up early on Sunday and watch. But I had to get up early today to start building my foundation for my Redwood sauna that's coming next week. Very stoked about that. So it's been a long, hard day for me, man.

Getting the sauna in. I saw the picture on Instagram. So getting the sauna, they're going to be putting it in this week. Well, I'll be putting it in this week. Okay. I'm putting the whole. Yeah, like I, you know, I've done tons of construction throughout my life. So I know how to build all this stuff and had a couple friends over and my kids help me out. And so now we got the foundation in. We got the platform ready next week. My son is going to be here. And I mean, I'm more stoked about this. I couldn't, the day I got the sponsorship, I couldn't even. to sleep that night. I've been so stoked about this. It's almost as exciting as signing a fight contract. I mean, this is like one of the happiest days of my life. It's like, I feel like it was as good as like when I had my kids or something. Hey, you know, support those who support you, man. It's cool that they, they stepped up and are supporting you. And what is it again? Redwood, Redwood, what is it again? Yeah, so it's Redwood Outdoors. I think it's Redwood Outdoors.co. And there's just one of the best sauna companies out there. Dustin Myers, my strength conditioning coach has one of their sonos.

And never since he got his, you know, I was reaching out out to him. And I wouldn't say begging, but I was like, hey, come on, like, guys, let's work out something together. Right. We finally did. We finally came to an agreement. And so I'm going to be one of their brand ambassadors. And so if anybody wants one of their sonnas, I got a code now. Immortal 250, you'll save $250 off of a sauna. And they're just a great company, man. Like they make really great. great asanas. You know, the one that I'm getting has a little porch on it and it's made out of thermo wood, which is different than, you know, just regular cedar wood.

And just well put together, it's easy to build. And, man, like I said, I'm a great heater and everything, man. So I'm just so excited. And like I said, I spent most of the day today. So now I'm tired and sore. That's why I'm sitting on my couch today doing a podcast. I'm just wore out. like I was carrying

gravel all day and and paver stones and you know, I build a little deck and stuff. Yeah, so I'm just wore out. You know what you need. A trip to the sauna is what you need.

War. A thousand percent. That would maybe for an ice bath, you know, the redwood, but also has ice baths and I'm going to get one of those necks.

But that would be, I would do work of wonders tonight for sure. But next week, I'll have us some. bitch in, hopefully next week, maybe next weekend, or after next week. I love it. I love it. Real quick, before we move on, I want to talk about Valentina Shipchenko and Lexa Gros.

I wonder everything I wanted to mention before we move on. I know you only watched the one fight, so I don't know how much you even heard it last night, but Laura Sanko did commentary on pay-per-view for the first time alongside Daniel Cormi and John Anick. And I know you and I both raved about Laura, like not only getting the shot when she first got it, when she first did it. She was tremendous, man. And I want to give credit to her crazy. listen, I like the commentary teams to

the UFC. I think Michael Bispink does a great job. I love Paul Felder. You know, I love the dynamic that obviously Joe Rogan's been around forever and he's a huge, you know, obviously he's got a huge fan base and he's been on pay-per-views forever, but like I'm not sitting here saying anyone should lose anyone's job.

Let me be clear about that. But man, more Laura Sanko is all I'm saying. Like, she really brought something to that broadcast last night. Like, she was so analytical and so smart. I think she made, like I think the key to a good commentator, Matt, is you make the people around you better and she made a DC a better commentator and she made John Anix job easier.

Like I think that is to me the mark of a great commentator. And I just want to give a huge, a huge shout to Laura Sanko, man. She absolutely killed it. Yeah, that's a great point because when I was listening and I only watched the main event, but when I was listening, I kid the boy, she's doing a great job. And I didn't know what it was that she was doing such a great job up. But I think you hit the nail right on the head. She made everybody else brought the entire level up.

and like Joe Rogan is so fucking good at it like I mean he's the king he's the king of podcasting he's the king of commentating it's almost like nobody can even come up to his level but like you said Laura brought everybody else up though yeah that's a great way to put it man yeah and like listen you know the opportunities will be there because we know Joe doesn't travel internationally

so you know the UFC travels a lot now so it's going to give Laura a chance to hopefully do those paper views. I just think she did a good job. I mean, listen, I'm not, listen, I'm not certainly, certainly not saying, like, Daniel Cormey is my guy. I think he's turned into one of the best commentators in the sport. And I know the dynamic he's built with Rogan and Annick is incredible. Like, I wouldn't be totally opposed to see what Rogan and Sanco could do at some point. Maybe DC has a weekend, always got a wrestling tournament. Let Sanco step in there with Rogan. I think that'd be a fun dynamic. Like, I think she's just, I think she's just incredible

in her job. And she did a phenomenal, like I said, like you said, we all know, Joe Rogan is As you said, he's the king. He's been around forever. It took us forever to get used to not having Mike Goldberg saying like, you know, and it is all over. It took us a while to get past that. I don't know that we'd ever move on from Joe Rogan's animated, like, you know, finishes and the way, you know, when he freaks out when a finish happens a big knockout,

we kind of, we've become accustomed to that. So I don't want that to go away. Certainly don't want that to go away. But like I said, man, you know, when you can throw in a Laura Sanko every now and again, man, I love it. I think she did, you know, first pay-per-view. I thought she did a tremendous job. So maybe Rogan and Sanco at some point. Maybe DC's got a wrestling thing or something coming up. Maybe she can step in and go one-on-one with Rogan. That'd be fun. Yeah, it sounds like fun to me, man. Yeah. Or even, yeah. Yeah, I think that'd be really cool.

Yeah. She killed it. All right. So we're coming off of a weekend where, you know, where Israel out of Sonia was clearly favored to be the winner. And he was, you know, I mean, he was a guy. We all knew that. And then obviously, Sean Stricken pulled off the upset. Next Saturday night, we're kind of going in a little bit of a weirder situation where Alexa Grasso pulled off an incredible finish to beat Valentina Strachinko to become flyweight champion. Now they're going to run it back and do it all over again.

Now, I've not spoken to Alexa Grasso, so I don't want to sit here and like certainly not being biased. But I spoke to Valentina two days ago. And to say she sounds like scary focused is an understatement. Like she, I won't say she seemed pissed off. That's probably the wrong wording. But like she just seemed so focused on beating Alexa Grosso and proving that like she is the better fighter. I am way excited for this fight.

And I'm super curious how it's going to play out because Alexa Grosso in the world, like she shook up the world by beating Valentina Shepchino, the way she did the last time, made the most of an advantage. where Valentina threw a spin kick, she missed, Alexa took her down and choked her out. It was incredible. I'm so excited for this rematch to see where it's going to go. Was it a fluke, so to speak? Was it just an upset and Valentina's back? Or did Alexa just have her number and Alexis is about to do it again? I'm so fascinated by this matchup.

You got? I mean, listen, I picked Valentina the last time because I did. I believe she's, you know, next to Amanda Nunes, possibly the number two all time, you know, behind Amanda. Her last two fights were a little worrisome, you know, when she had a really close fight with Tyler Santos. Now, again, certainly not making excuses, but Valentina went into that with a foot injury and she couldn't move. It was a weird fight where she just wasn't being nearly as lateral in her movement and wasn't as quick on her feet. And that Tyler took advantage of that by taking her down and things like that. And I was like, why would you fight that fight when you need to be quick and limber on your feet?

And you basically walk it in there with one foot. Again, credit where credit is due. The fight with Alexa wasn't that lopside. Was Valentina winning? Yes, she was winning the fight. But it wasn't like this lopside of fight where Valentina was just beating her up like she did, you know, Lauren Murphy or some of the other defenses she's had. But I, dude, it's just hard for me to pick against Valentina Chichinko. I mean, maybe this is the changing of the guard.

Maybe this is the moment where the division is caught up to her. her and Alexa Grasso is just the you know the kryptonite so to speak to Alexa or to Valentina Chichinko the way that Sean Strickland was to Israel out of Sanya but I'm just a big believer in Valentina and seeing how laser focus she was

again maybe just because I spoke to her just I don't know there was just a different demeanor to her where like there was no smiling there was no like you know happy I don't know I always get like a little bit of like a happy vibe for Valentin even though she goes in there and becomes a killer this time it was just like she actually

said to me she's like i'm going to go in there and i'm seeking to destroy my opponent or something to that in fact i was like damn like she's just seems lazy but then like i said we'll see how about you what do you think what you think it's going to happen yeah so i think a lot of times again i don't want to take any way from strickland but you know when you look at the champions like they can only it's hard very difficult to maintain being a champion for a very long time and particularly when you when you think about like it gets harder and harder to bring in guys that push you. You start getting a little bit comfortable with, you know, just being the best in the world. Things start getting a little bit easier. You start, even just in your life in general, everything starts coming easier to you.

Like everybody wants to be around you. You know, so I think it's very easy to lose as a champion. And when they do lose, and this is why I think, again, I would be excited to see Izzy fight again. even Strickland to see him fight even an immediate rematch because sometimes that loss is what they need to humble them

and remind them they're not you know they are still human just reminds them that that it's still a possibility you can still lose motherfucker and I think

just from what I've seen with Shevchenko from what I know about her and my interactions with her she seems to me like the type going to take this and say, fuck no, I'm coming back and I'm going to

smash this shit. And I think she has the ability to do that. So I'm going to go with Valentin. I think that, you know, again, as a champion, like you've got to be firing on all eight cylinders. At some point, after you've been doing it long enough and everybody's on

your nuts and life starts becoming little too easy, like one of those cylinders starts falling off, right? And that next hungry guy might not even be as good as but he's firing on all eight cylinders, and that's all it takes. I think that's what happened with Valentina, and I think Alexa Grasso is an amazing competitor,

but it's Valentina Shepchinko. Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, I just, Valentina is, and the thing about Valentina is, Valentina is so well-rounded, like she can throw everything at you, she can beat you on the feet, she can beat you on the ground, and you're right, like we all, we're all, we all, we are all guilty of this at some when we are so, when we are riding so high on somebody that, you know, that how does that not get to them a little bit?

And I certainly don't think Valentina got a big head about herself thinking, I'm unbeatable. I don't think that. But I think what you're saying is right. Like she just, you're cruising through winds. You're just, you know what I mean? It gets to a point and everything kind of builds up. And it's almost like you need that to just fire you up and get you motivated. Like no one wants to lose.

I certainly know that. But it's almost like that moment that you needed that. Like I think in a weird way, like I think Israel. needed to lose the Pereira because when he came back, he had a different fire about him. And then again, you know, maybe it just got snuffed out by Sean Strickland. But I think that was the thing. Like, because Alexa Grosso, very good fighter.

I mean, Alex is exceptional. But no one looked, no one, that almost had the same feeling as the Strickland fight, where it's like no one was really picking Alexa Grasso. Like, let's be honest. She was a huge underdog. She just seemed like the next person. She didn't seem like the person suited to beat Valentina Shubchenko. she was just like okay we need a contender she hasn't fought for it yet blanchfield isn't quite ready

minofiore isn't quite ready let's go with alexa grasso and you know and okay and then alexia goes in there and has some really close rounds of valentina gives her a really tough fight and then of course seizes on the mistake gets her down on the ground chokes her out wow we're all amazed but i don't think anyone going into that fight was like that that's what we expected i know some people picked her i'm I know that happened, but yeah, I just think that's like the wake-up call that she needs. You know what I mean? Like it was like a wake-up call. And it's like, again, I don't want to sit there and say like, you know, like I don't want to speak for Valentina Strachenko, but I've interviewed her dozens of times, Matt.

I've interviewed her before. I think every fight she's had in the UFC since like her second fight, if I'm not missing. Second or third fight, I've interviewed her every single time. And we kind of, a lot of times I'll talk to her because she travels a lot. you know she travels all over the world and I always like joke with her as I live vicariously through your travels because every time I'm on her Instagram she's in like Thailand and like all these cool places and I'm like oh it's kind of it's awesome to see you do that and I brought up this time and she I was like because she was in Thailand and I was like oh Thailand you know be on the beach

blah blah blah she was like oh yes I was on the beach of my days off but I lived in Thailand when I trained here when I was a Muay Thai champion I was here to train I wasn't really enjoy myself I was here to train and I was just like damn like there's just like a different different, you know, we kind of joked around about like she loves being on the road and loves traveling. And I was like, cool. Nope, none of that. There was no, like, I traveled for fun. I didn't travel to be near her beach. I didn't travel to, you know, go explore something new. No, no, I traveled to Thailand to get ready because I want to beat Alexa Gross's ass. It was the sense I got for Valentina. That's a scary lady right there.

I love that. And, you know, when you think about it, too, like, I think a lot of, A lot of people forget maybe, especially when they become champion and getting it, we get on everybody's nuts and everything and they get pumped up so much. It gets a little bit boring for him too, right? They kind of maybe forget like where they came from. And I think like Anderson Silva is a great example. You could tell like he was getting bored and they're just doing what he could do to guys. Right.

So he was like, okay, well, what kind of insane thing could I take a risk and do? And when you think about something like Valentina, you know, throwing a spinning kick and getting taken down, choked out. Like you got, we always forget in this sport, like there is always a path to victory for the opponent.

You know, we're like, I just tweeted last week. I don't see a path to victory. I've seen that. Maybe that the last two weeks and both the times, or last two fights. And both times I've been proven wrong, right?

So it's almost like a fucking curse now, right? But there is always a path to victory. There's always some, some part of a fighter's game that's going to be better than you're a part of your game. Maybe it's a dars choke. Maybe it's an overhand right. Maybe, you know, it's a rolling omplata heel hook shit. You know what I'm saying?

Like there's always some something out there because there's too many aspects of the game. You can't be top best at every single thing. And we all practice everything. And when you kind of forget about that and you kind of get a little bit too experimental and forget about what your base is and where you need to funnel people and keep them so that you're guaranteed to be dominant. I think that happens to these champions

sometimes when they start getting all these long streaks and pumped up too much. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Like I said, I'm going Valentina. I won't be shocked if Alexa Grosso wins. Like she's a really, really good fighter. And I think she opened a lot of eyes with that performance to go out there.

And again, even keeping things close against Valentina was super impressive and then to obviously choke her out. I'm picking Valentina O'N, but I won't be shocked that Alexa gets it done. I just think the flyweight's are really good right now. The flyweight's the best division in women's MMA right now. I don't think the gap is nearly as wide as it once was. And it's not because Valentina's lost the step.

I totally disagree with that. I just think everyone else around her is getting better. Lex is great. Aaron Blanchfield's great. Man O'Fior is great. It's just a deep division. It just took a little while to get there. Like, you know, Valentina was at a 10.

For a while, everyone else was at like a 6. Now we're just getting everyone else up to an eight or a nine now. And so they're equaling out to what Valentina is. And I think that's all that's happening here. Yeah, there's a great point. And those guys coming up to, or those girls coming up to eights and nines, like you're saying,

you know, Valentina has to stay at that 10 and keep people in her game. She starts exploring a little too much and try and play with other things or leaving small openings for them to get into their game where they do have that strength over her. That's when it's going to make a problem. and that's when you tell me how focus she is now and she's ready to come back. I don't see her taking a lot of chances.

I see her going out there and pushing her game hard as she can and going back to what she does. Not that she really straighted so far away from it or anything, but, you know, I see her doing really well in this fight. Yeah, I agree. Real quick, another fight to discard. I want to get your thoughts and maybe a pick from you, Matt. Jack Della Mattelan, taking on Kevin Holland and the co-mate event. Great fight. I know for like a very brief period of time, a couple of days, you were getting ready for Jack Del and Adelaide with your guy, Josiah Harold, helping him get ready.

Real quick. Kevin Holland against Jack Del and Madelana. You lean one way or the other on this one? Yeah, you know, I studied Jack pretty well. Actually, you know, I was kind of replicating him for Josiah a little bit. I mean, it was only, what, a week, I think. So I think it was only two or three days. We actually trained for that fight, but we trained together all the time.

but you know when i watch uh kevin and and jack style versus style i have a hard time not not find a way that kevin's going to find a way to win this fight i mean he he's he's just on uh mentally he's on a great level right now he's or a great place right now he seems like and i think he's really discovering himself as a fighter and where he is you know who he is um And, I mean, he does just so many things really well. And he's so long. And so I definitely lean towards Holland in that fight. Yeah, I'm with you.

I'm with you. I'm with you. I was, I'm still, I'm super high on Jack. I think Jack's a great fighter. But, you know, outside of Wonderboy, you know, and listen, I know, Homs not beat Holland, you know, again, that that's not a fair metric to me. When you're getting ready to fight, you know, one guy and you end up fighting freaking, and when you're getting ready to fight Daniel Rodriguez

and you end up fighting Hamza Chimaya, that's a remarkably different fight. You know what I mean? Like, I'm glad he took it and got paid, but come on now. Like, no one's going to say, like, he was fighting a boxer and he's going against, like, one of the most dominant wrestlers in the sport.

That's a big change, okay? So, again, certainly not making excuses, but, you know, it is what it is. Wonderboy beat him. But Wonderboy is one of the best strikers ever in this sport. Outside of that, Kevin Holland has looked really damn good at Welteroid, him he took out Ponsonibio, knocks out Santiago Ponsonabia, who's a really good fighter.

He chokes out Michael Kiesa, who's a good fighter. I'm super high on Kevin Holland, and I think this is going to be his night. I'm with you. I think he's going to find a way. And, you know, Jack's a super offensive fighter, really, really aggressive offensive fighter. That can come back to bite you sometimes. And when you're fighting another guy who's got incredible offense, knockout power, long range, just a great mix of weapons. ground game all that i i think this is a recipe for kevin holland to win yeah yeah say it's that long

range man and and i just don't see jack having the athleticism you know like that's like the long range and the athleticism of kevin holland and and he's got balls too like he's not afraid to just throw what he needs to throw when he needs to throw it and with that athleticism he can throw things that you're not supposed to throw when you're not supposed to throw them but still throw him and you know what I mean it's just a he's he has some very strange weapons you know and and you know when you talk about like him fight wonder boy like anytime you fight wonder boy it's just a matchup thing you know I don't necessarily consider him one of the best strikers I mean he's one of the most unique strikers and when he gets against someone who doesn't fight him right or you know matches up

in the wrong way he's going to demolish him but if you know we've seen it multiple times you know with like when I fought him when like Masvedol fought him um I think it was a Pettus knocked him out too right Pettus knocked him Mazhidal didn't he beat up Mazadol that was one the wonder boy beat up Mazadol but yeah Pettus beat him the pet him the pet his knocked him out with the super man bunch yeah I said I was thinking up you know just certain guys me you know when you when he's really to me like a matchup guy so and and Holland the way that he that Holland fought him I thought was you know interested like it's like he didn't strategize or anything so So, but I think it's going to matchup wise, style-wise.

I think it works pretty well for Holland in this fight. You know, it would be fun. And again, we'll talk about this next week. If Holland wins, I think him and Ian Machado Gary would be a really fun fight. I think it'd be a great fight. Yes, yes. And that'd be a great one. Real quick, man, before we get out of here, we were talking a couple weeks ago.

We were kind of joking around and talking about the high-level boxing that we're about to see between Logan, Paul, and Dylan Dennis. Did you see what happened? Dylan Danes got sued and got a restraining order put against him. You were complimenting his trash talk and then like, dude, the hammer got dropped. Was that, did that happen a couple weeks ago? No, it was like, it was just like five days ago, four or five days ago. Yeah, Logan Paul's fiance, Neen Agdahl filed a lawsuit against him and filed a restraining order against him.

I was like, damn, well, I guess this just got real. Yeah, well, I mean, fair enough, right? like, hey, Dylan's dropping bombs, bro. I wouldn't expect anything else out of her. You know, maybe if she didn't put out those fucking videos and shit, then he wouldn't have the material. But when you put yourself out there like that, it's what you get.

Yeah, I don't know. Like the one thing, the one thing in the lawsuit that I read that was kind of interesting is like, you know, and again, these are accusations. Nothing's been proven. But like, I guess some of the videos apparently came from her Snapchat, which she believes was hacked. now that's a problem if that actually happened then dylan danis has got some problems if he actually

like hacked or had paid someone to hacker stuff that's an issue but yeah i mean listen like i said i don't know it's just like it's so funny like that's how deep it's gone with these two and it's like it's like the weirdest fight ever like it's not even really that great of a fight like dylan danis is a jiu jitsu guy against logan paul who you know kind of boxes like he kind of does he's not like he's not even in like jake's shoes where he's like i'm serious i want to be champion he's like eh i'll box a couple times and i'll do a huge fight with mayweather and just fuck around uh it's so weird like where this is going i'd love this like like is fucking retarded of a person as he is and everything you got to love him for this whole thing

bro like he's just this has been the best internet troll trash talk media hype pump up pre-fight shit i've ever fucking seen bro this guy is just pulled out all the stops. I'll tell you this. Dylan Danes, like, I was, I was sick of Dylan Danes these last couple years because it's just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Oh, it was fun.

I was like, yeah, it's like, but I'll give him credit, man. Like, he's just like, he went nuclear on this one. And boy, did he find a, did he find a button to press? And he just went off. And clearly, I mean, listen, do I, do I, do I, do I want someone to get their social media hacked? If that's what actually happened,

certainly not. I'm not certainly advocating for that. That should not happen. But the photos and the accusations and like, you know, whatever else is out there. And again, you live a public life. I don't think people who live public lives should not be able to have private lives. But when you live a very public life and when you're putting your business out there on social media, like, you know, photos or information, you live, you know, there are certain people like you would never know they have a private lives because guess what? They don't put it out there. Like they don't put anything on social media. They don't, they don't give you the ammo, I guess what I'm saying. You know, her job as a model and as a social influence is to put it out there.

So Dylan just went nuclear and turned him back against. I was just like, like, I follow him on Twitter and like some of the stuff just get like I was to be on my feet and I was like, good Lord, does this guy like train? Like, does he train or is he just on Google? Like, what's going on here? But it, like I said, it certainly worked because he went, he went, he obviously pissed her off and certainly it seems like he got under Logan's skin too. It worked because just like we were saying a minute ago,

a year ago, we didn't give a fuck about Dylan Dennis. We were so sick of hearing his name, and we would never brought it up on this podcast, but here we are talking about it now, because this dude fucking pulled out all the stops, and now everybody's talking about it. I think I looked at his followers on Twitter. I mean, he's got close to like a million followers now.

just fucking came out like hasn't done a single thing except be like the laughing stock of the jitsu and combat sports world and now all of a sudden he's got a million followers well you know it's crazy as you'd think because i said this like forever ago like when you're like because jake paul is a pretty good talk or he lives on social media and like there was a time when like some people were going back and forth and i was like this is this is a losing proposition because this is what this guy does Like he lives to troll people.

Like, that's what Jake Paul did for a long time. He troll people. That's not a war you're going to win with a guy like that. And you kind of think the same thing with Logan, right? Like, that's what he does. He's an influencer. He's a social media guy. But boy, I'd tell you what, listen, Logan Paul may knock him out inside the first round.

It may be the ugliest boxing match in history. But in terms of the pre-fight war, it's like 10-7, Dylan Danes. It is not even remotely close. Like, it is like the cake thing. He made him the cake for the thing at the press conference. that was kind of funny. But outside of that, it's been 10-7 Dylan Davis.

Yeah, yeah. I agree. But, hey, that's a great thing about fighting, right? Like, you could talk all this shit. You can fucking, you know, have better cars,

have more money, be more popular. It doesn't matter. When we step in there and fight, that's when, that's what matters. Who's going to win the fucking fight, right? Logan Paul is probably going to

whoop his fucking ass. And ultimately he'll be the one standing when Dylan is probably on his ass. So, you know, I think Dylan might give him better fight than most people think. But ultimately, like, Logan's probably going to fuck him up. Yeah. That's the beautiful part about the world, man. You know, a dude talks all this shit.

Now you can, yeah, you got your chance to go knock the motherfucker out for it. Violence, violence solves everything. Isn't that the quote? That's my quote, yes. Yeah, like I said, man, who knows? We'll see what happens. I mean, certainly this is, let me be clear when I say this. Skill level vastly different.

But let's not forget, like, some of the, I mean, there were some truly, like, like, eye-popping moments during those press conferences where Connor McGrager was zinging Floyd Mayweather left and right. Like, he made, there were some moments where it was like 10-7 Connor in the trash talk. But in the fight, and again, skill levels vastly different. Floyd Mayweather's an incredible boxer. But, like, he didn't fight outside himself. Floyd did what Floyd does.

Like, he didn't go in there and go. crazy and pissed off and tried to take off Connor's head. He fought like Floyd always does. And then he went out there, knocked out Connor McGregor. We'll see. Maybe this will get to Logan. Maybe Logan will fight outside himself. Maybe he'll go in there all pissed off and amped up and charged for it. And, dude, like I said,

it did work with Josealdo. I still to this day, I think Joe Zaldo was so pissed off at Carter McGregor. He just went at him and he got knocked out for it. It can work. It can work. That's very true. Yes. Yeah, so we'll see, man. Like, we're all going to watch the motherfucker, right?

Yeah, I mean. About this whole goddamn thing. I don't want to watch it, but I'm going to watch it. I don't want to talk about it, but we're sitting here talking about it. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of fun. And Dylan actually made this one fun. Hey, if Dylan had never done that shit, would you even actually be interested in this fight?

You probably wouldn't even care. But until they started getting it. getting deep into some real shit talking and then Dylan start pulling out like the like you said the nuclear bombs now the interest level has peaked in this fight and it's probably going to sell a lot of fucking paper views for it it is it is and also speaking of like things that like don't make a lot of sense I'm assuming you didn't watch it maybe heard about or read about on Twitter or whatever they did the first press conference between Tyson Fury and Francis and Ghanu that was a lot of fun Francis you know held his own had some good lines in there you know Tyson

is definitely out there and kind of like a real boisterous dude. But let me just say one thing. We'll close on on this, Matt. Tyson Fury is, I mean, one of the best boxers of a generation. Maybe the best boxer of this generation, heavyweight boxer of this generation, without a doubt. And you and I have both openly said, I think we've said, you know,

we're both going to pick Tyson Fury to beat Francis and Gano in a boxing match. Does Francis have what Joe Rogan called a nuclear option? Sure. Could he land a punch and put him away out in its heavyweight? so there's always that risk. But realistically, you and I are both going to pick Tyson Fury to win, right? I think that's fair to say, right? Yeah.

Okay. Tyson Fury, though, is like, I'll beat you in a boxing ring and then I'll beat you in the cage. And I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's slow down here. Like, this is not like, it's not going to happen. First off, it's not going to happen. But let's just say, hypothetically it does. Let's say Tyson goes out there and beats Francis Ngano and beats him in a seven, round fight knocks him on the seventh round awesome not totally shocked stop saying you're

going to go to a cage fight be francis and gano if francis and gano is like a 10 to one underdog against you in boxing you're going to be a thousand to one underdog against him in m m m mc i understand you are a great boxer boxing is not m m m m m m is a lot harder no offense this is not a knock on boxing the amount of weapons that you have in boxing the amount of you have two weapons in boxing in terms of offensive weapons. You have your left hand and your right hand. In MMA, you have a plethora weapons, and it takes a long time to learn them all.

Let's just stop saying crazy things. I agree. I don't think harder is the right word for it, but it's different, that's for sure. And but the problem, and like Tyson does have a good point, though, like Francis mainly boxes in MMA too. Like he's not a big leg kicker.

He's not a big clinch guy. He's not a big elbow guy. Like, he's mainly a boxer. So I get where Tyson's coming from. But if Francis gets his ass kicked in boxing, and then comes over to MMA and tries to box with them again in an MMA fight, then shame on Francis and Gano, right? But even that, but even that, though,

boxing in MMA is still different than boxing is boxing. Like the way you throw punches and the way you box in MMA is still vastly different. That's why we always say while it is easy. Yeah, while it is easier to transition from MMA to boxing, because you already have some of those basic skills, it's still a different, like different style, the way you stand, your legs, positioning, all those different things because you have to prepare for takedown,

you have to prepare for leg kicks, all those things do you care? To some extent, yes, but also there's not like one specific way to stand in boxing. There's not one specific way to throw punches. There's what we call the correct way. There's the technique that people teach and stuff, but like, you know, Prince Osseem Ahmed, he didn't follow those techniques, right?

You know, so like there's not necessarily like one specific way. Like Floyd Mayweather punches vastly different than Manny Pachiao and vastly different than Tyson Fury and vastly different from Yusik, right? So, you know, so I don't, I personally, I never like to narrow it down to like, you know, this is how we do it in May and this is how we do it in boxing. Like all the boxers have their styles, all the M.A. guys have their style. It comes down to matchups. And that's why I said, look, if Francis tries, you know, if they end up fighting in M.A.

And Francis does just box with him, like, shame on him. Like, if he uses all the weapons, of course, he should destroy Tyson and an M.A fight. But if he stands there and boxes with him, after he just got beaten a boxing match, it's ridiculous. Who is the, who is the, what is the weight class in boxing? Who is the around like welterweight where you fight 170? What is? because I always lose track of what weights or weights in boxing. Who is the closest to 170 pound champion in boxing right now?

Like who's the best guy in the world around that weight? Well, Conello's 168. Okay. Super middle. Okay. So Canelo Alvarez versus Matt Brown. How badly would that fight go for Canola Alvarez? An M.MA.

Like, I'm just saying, like, that's the reality of it. I love Canello. He's amazing. He ain't beating you in an MMA fight. You know, like that wouldn't box with him. You know what I mean? I wouldn't be throwing hands at all. Like I would kick his leg once and he'd probably be done or, you know,

give him one cat or an elbow or a head. You know what I mean? So I get where you're coming from. And, you know, if we box, like, he'd kick my ass too, right? So, you know, it's a fair game. But, you know, I'm not that guy. It's going to be, oh, what a fuck you know next. Right.

But if I tried to box with him in MMA, that'd be my first. fucking dumbass right like yeah like there's strategy to this shit you know yeah but i mean you throw one elbow one leg kick it's probably not gonna end well for canello or anyone else that's that's what i'm saying like i know it's just for fun i get it he's just being you know whatever but like you know come on now like and again maybe if he knocks out francis garner maybe his confidence will sore and he's like let's do it again in m a may but it's just like the jake the jake paul nade ass thing like jake paul and you know again jake paul is 20 pounds heavier than a d dyes but let's just

stop saying crazy things and on day one your first day in mixed martial arts you're going to beat Nate Diaz in a fight. You're not. You're not. I mean the guy's big. He's Jake Paul. I'd give him a good chance actually. Because he can wrestle too.

He can't though. Where does this? This narrative that Jake Paul can wrestle is so out there. He was now he wrestled he was a freshman in high school and he quit. Was it Logan then? Logan. Logan was a fifth place finisher here in Ohio. Jake wrestled one year

and then stopped wrestling. Okay, I didn't know that. I thought Jake was the wrestling. Logan was the wrestler. Logan was legitimately a good wrestler in the state of Ohio, but Logan's older and by the time Jake got to high school, they were already starting to get famous for their like, whatever,

vine or whatever the hell they did. So he wrestled as a freshman and then never wrestled again. I believe that's right. But Logan's the older one. I thought that Jake was old. No, Logan's the older one. Logan's the older one. was legitimately a fifth place finisher here in Ohio. But again, still high school wrestling.

But I'm just saying like Fair enough, but I would still argue that with you because again, Nate Diaz boxes and him and may. And he doesn't have good, doesn't have very good take downs. Now he might pull guard against Jake Paul, but I think Jake would be prepared for that.

And I think it's easy to prepare for it. No, I think he catches him one guillotine and it's over, just like they did in the boxing match. He ducks his head one time. Jake doesn't. How's he going to catch him into geotty? He's going to jump on his head? I mean, dude, he could throw a flying triangle.

I don't think it really matters. And also, just to be clear, Jake Paul should not be fighting Nate D as an MMA because Jake Paul is 185 pounder and Nate D as a 155 pounder. That's the advantage. The weight would be the advantage. You put Jake Paul in there with any middleweight that we know their name, like outside of just some random dude. He's going to get absolutely mauled in his first fight.

That's why you learn. You learn and you grow and you become a fighter. Like you're not going to, you're not going to throw Jake Paul in there with Hamzaa Shamaev and he's going to have a chance. You know what I mean? You're going to throw in a Sean Strickland. He's going to have a chance. Yeah, you're talking about the top level guys too. But anyone, like anyone, who's the number, who's the 20th ranked?

Chris Curtis is a good example. Chris Curtis is a good fighter. He's not a top 15 fighter. He would destroy Jake Paul in a fight. I agree on that. But with that weight discreversy, plus with. Nate Diaz's style. Like, we know that Jake Paul can outbox Nate Diaz.

We've seen it. I mean, he kind of did, but it wasn't like he was out there. Like, he knocked him down one time, but it wasn't like he went out there and decimated Nate Diaz, like, he beat him. He certainly did beat him, but. I actually just lied. I didn't see it because I didn't watch a fight. But from what I understood, he outboxed Nate Diaz.

He kind of did, he did, but yeah. And you've seen Nate Diaz's fights for years. Like, has he ever done? anything other than box? I mean, yeah, I mean, he does, I mean, he does have, he does have, I mean, just like what happened in the Tony Ferguson fight. He was winning with boxing on the feet and then Tony got close to him and he grabbed a guillotine and choked him out.

Like that's the reality of it. I mean, one mistake. And also, like I said, I just think that, you know, skills. Like I said, Jake, you know, Jake can learn it. I'm not, I hope Jake fights him and A. I have no problem with that. Obi-Lorins. One, fight middleweights because you're a middleweight.

You're not a freaking fighting. white weights. Let's stop that crap. But also, like I said, dude, it takes a long time to learn. Jiu-Jitsu and wrestling are two of the hardest things to learn. Like, you know, I mean, not saying that striking is easy. It certainly isn't. I'm saying, like, the nuances of Jiu-Jitsu and wrestling are really hard to learn. That's why we always say, like, when you're Bo Nickel, you're going to have an advantage

coming in day one because you've been wrestling since you're four years old. Like, you've been doing it for, you know, 20-some-odd years and you're at the highest level doing it. It's going to be hard for anyone to match you in that level. The only guy who's ever really done is George St. who suddenly became an incredible wrestler who had no wrestling experience. But other than that, it just doesn't happen.

And, yeah. I'm going to put it right now. If Jake Paul fights Nate Diaz and MMA, I'm putting my money on Jake Paul. If he fights someone else, if he fights someone else, I may not put the money on. So I'm not saying like Jake Paul's going to be a great NBA fighter,

but if he fights Nate Diaz, I got my money on him. You would actually pick Jake Paul to beat Nate Diaz in an MMA fight. You're seriously saying that right now. It's my money, yes. dude come on seriously i mean dude Nate would try to box him

that's what he does or like you said like you don't think jake could learn in like a couple months like how to not get guillotined or how to stop a takedown like it's not hard to stop a jiu jitzu take down like if Nate was if he's fighting a halfway decent wrestler

that's completely different but like Nate is not a good wrestler never has been a good wrestler I can't believe what I'm hearing right now, Matt Brown. I can't believe I'm hearing this right. I'm like, I'm shocked out of my mind. Like, I'm not, listen, I'm not saying Jake couldn't find success in MMA, but I mean, and I'm also not saying that Nate Diaz is the best in the world.

He never was, but come on, dude. Like, he's one mistake, he's going to get caught in something. He's going to get caught. He's going to get hill hooked. He's going to get knee barred. He's going to get armed barred. He's going to get guillotined. He's going to get caught.

Nate Diaz is legitimately a really good jiu-jitsu. stylist. At some point, he's going to slip up and he's going to have Nate on his back and he's going to get choked out. And he's going to say, oops, I made a mistake. Oh, for sure. If he ends up in a grappling exchange with Nate Diaz, I don't think it takes very long for Nate

to find a submission. I just, like, I don't think that Nate would get to it though. I think Nate would try like Nate boxes people. He boxes great boxers. Even like when him and Connor were were throwing down, like he wasn't the one shooting for a takedown.

Even like when Nate's getting knocked out and getting beat up all the hell, like he's not shooting for takedowns. Like he'll get the shit kicked out of and sit there and keep trying to box you. My only, the only way I see Jake Paul having a real legitimate chance is just because of Nate D. Because of the size advantage. He has like 30 pounds on Nate and Nate's not really a middleweight. Put Jake Paul in there against any legitimate middleweight.

Throw him in there with any top 20, top 25 middleweight and he loses. Hold on now. I don't. I never said against someone else. I said against May Diaz. I'm taking into account the weight advantage. All right. I disagree.

I'm not going to be a great-in-May fighter. Like, he's got, like, how old is he now? Like, he's got white years to go. 25, I think he's like 25, something like that. He's got a chance to be a good MMA fighter. Won't be a champion, but he could be good, you know, starting 25 with already decent boxing. So, but. against Nate Diaz.

I'm just saying stylistically. It's not a bad matchup for Jake Paul. Oh, I totally disagree. I think it's a bad. The weight advantage is the only thing that would kind of scare me. But, you know, again, that old school, like, you know, that BJ Penn, Nate Diaz, Diaz brothers' attitude. I don't know that really matters in the end. But all right, we'll go with that.

So you heard of here, folks. Matt Brown's picking Tyson Fury to beat Francis deGano and M.A. He's picking Jake Paul to be. I'm joking. I mean, I don't think Francis would get beat up in boxing and be stupid enough to box him in the back. But Nate Diaz, I don't think he's stupid, but I think he's got a lot of balls. He would try to box Jake Paul in an MMA fight. I do think it's hilarious Tyson Fury when they're like, when he was like getting into that whole thing with John Jones. remember that, like a few months ago.

And, like, John's like, all right, come over and fight. He's like, oh, I'm never doing a cage ride. I'm a boxer. You come fight me in boxing. Because you know better. Because you know better. John Jones would, that would be the fastest, nastiest fight that, I mean, Tyson Fury would be like, he would be bleeding for both sides of his head.

And he would be like, yep, this is a real bad mistake. Francis de Gaugh, he might have a slight chance just if it stays on defeat. He's got no chance against John Jones. He's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not doing cage fighting. I'm a boxer. I love it Oh, that's hilarious All right, that's our show for this week

I'm still reeling from this one It's going to take me a couple days To recover from that revelation That you're picking Jake Paul to beat Nadeez We'll be back next week Obviously What did I say? I also tried to convince you

That Strickland had a chance So we'll just end on that there You did You did I went the other way And I convinced you the wrong way And then you know we were both wrong But yeah, no, you're right You did try to convince me

But I have far less confidence and Jake Paul beating Nade Diaz and I had anything with Sean Strickland but you know, maybe, maybe so. I'm just glad that you didn't. I kept waiting this whole time for you to pull out the, well, I picked Connor.

I mean, I did pick Connor to beat Aldo. I'm just saying throwing that out there. I know, I know. I threw it out there for you because I knew that it was somewhere creeping from the back of mind to the front. Well, I did bring up Connor beating Aldo earlier.

I just didn't bring up that I also picked him and you picked Aldo. you know. You got that one on me forever. I do. I have that one on you forever. All right. That is our show for this week.

We'll be back next week. We'll talk about the fallout from Noce UFC as Valentina Shepchenka takes on Alexa Grasso and Jack Della Madelena takes on Kevin Holland. And I think we roll right into another event of following weekend on the 23rd. There's a fight. That is Matush Gamrod against Rafael Fiziev, which is a really fun lightweight fight. So I know you're a big. for Zeeve guys so we'll roll right into that next week so a big thank you as always everyone the

tunes in matt where can people check you out obviously we talked about the guys of redwood that are put that are going to get you the sauna which is going to be up and running in the immortal household in about a week or so uh where else can people check out and support you i'm the immortal twitter and instagram at the immortal coffee twitter and instagram let's get it love it folks we'll see you back here next week for another edition of the fighter versus the rider thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you then Thank you.