MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Arman Tsarukyan Starting a Brawl at RAF, Jon Jones vs. Alex Pereira at UFC White House?

Episode Date: March 3, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin discuss Arman Tsarukyan punching Georgio Poullas after their match at RAF 6 and if his outburst that led to a wild brawl erupting could potentially prevent Tsarukyan from getting a UFC title shot. We’ll also react to the news that Jon Jones vs. Alex Pereira is the leading candidate to headline the UFC White House card plus we’ll look ahead to Max Holloway vs. Charles Oliveira and the UFC 326 fight card on Saturday. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we have finally arrived at UFC 326 Fight Week. They also announced UFC 327 this week. We'll talk a little, maybe we'll mention that as well.

But UFC 326, Max Holloway, Charles Olivaire, BMF title. What do you feel about the BMF title? I don't know if we really talked about this. What do you think about the BMF title? Do you care? No, I've talked about it before. It's completely useless, senseless, in my opinion, just because the BMF is the champion, right? Is that not what the real BMF is?

It's like, well, if you were the BMF, you'd be champion, wouldn't you? There's obviously, like, a dude that's a badder motherfucker than you because he's a champion. It was fun for, like, one fight and, like, I don't know why they decided to reintroduce it. Like, they did it with the Geichie-Pourier fight, but it's like, I mean, like, if we're talking about the most excited, like, you know, fun fighter to watch. Like, doesn't Yuri Prohoshka deserve a shot at that? Doesn't, like, you know what I mean? There's guys who are exciting and just can't fight a lightweight.

When they go back, looking at a book Max Holloway is Yuri Prohaska. I mean, it's a UFC. You could go, you could do that all day. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's so many exciting guys. How even last night, I mean, you know, wasn't much of a card last night. I wasn't too much to watch, but I happened to be watching that, that Luna kid.

Boy, like that, that's a prospect. You know, a kid, and then the kid that he was fighting that hung in there all three rounds. I was like, these are BMSs right here in their own right, you know? I mean, they're not, you know, Dustin Porreier, but come on, man. Yeah, it's like, also I don't, and I'm not 110% sure about this, but I'm pretty sure about this. It's not like they're getting points. You know, I mean, like, when you're a champion, you're supposed to get a big bump in pay, you know, that kind of stuff.

Like, you know, Gary points, yeah. Yeah, or whatever, but like, I don't think it is like, well, I don't think, because I don't think they actually, like they don't consider this a real title because when they do the commission meetings every month in Nevada, whenever the UFC's in Nevada, they do like assigning the referees and officials and shit. They didn't do it for this card. Like it was in that, it was in that framework of when Nevada should have done it. So they don't even consider this a real title. So it's like they're not, you know, it's just a symbolic thing. And I'm just like, it's dumb. Like, this is a great fight. I'm excited for Charles and Max. I don't need a stupid

BNF title to make it better. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it feels very. It feels very. very W-W-E-ish to me than the whole BMF thing. And, you know, I know they took a lot of things from W-W, you know, good for them. But, you know, some, I'm sure the teenagers watching that have been watching since, I don't know, since Connor McGregor got bigger or whatever, I'm sure they love it, you know, but yeah, it's kind of ridiculous, in my opinion. Yeah, I agree. We're going to talk about that fighting a couple of other things with UFC 326.

Obviously, we'll also talk a little bit about the news that came out of UFC, 27, which is Yuri Pahashka fighting Carlos Allberg for the vacant light heavyweight title with Alex Prayer giving it up. We'll talk about what that means in a second. But last night, Matt, Real American Freestyle, which, by the way, I have such, I've enjoyed this so much. Like, I'm a wrestling fan. I'm a wrestling fan.

I love watching college wrestling. I love watching Olympic wrestling. But one of my biggest complaints about wrestling is when you watch a normal tournament, it's just like, they just kind of roll people out. Like, here's Kyle Snyder versus Abdul Rashid Sadjali of in the Croatian. opened and you're like, great, at 3 o'clock at the morning on a Tuesday, and like, there's just no patch between, no, like, it's just like,

here they are in the match, go wrestle. R.F. has been a lot of fun introducing, like, the big walkouts, and they brought into all the UFC guys, and like Henry Sehudo wrestled last night, but obviously the biggest story coming out of that was Armin Saruki and wrestling a guy named Georgio Poulos, who actually wrestled at Cleveland State.

That was his college. He wasn't very good, but he wrestled at Cleveland State. And things got nasty. They were head fighting and slapping around, And then when it was over, Armand tackled him and straight up punched him and then broke out a giant huge brawl. I'm not going to debate like who's right and who's wrong. I think we all know like, you know, both of them probably have a little bit of fault, like how it all unfolded. He got a little nasty.

Referee probably should have taken a little bit better control of that. But here's my thing. And maybe this is me playing conspiracy theorist, Matt, but we've talked a lot about where Armin sits in the lightweight division. We both agree. He should have fought for the title in January over Gauchy and or Pimble. definitely over Patty. And then the next fight, we know it's not going to be that. It's going to be Gagia against Ilya.

And then who knows after that? Will Armand get the shot or not? But remember, Dana White claimed that Armand headbutting Dan Hooker, which broke Dan's nose. Dan told me it broke his nose when he did that. Played a part in him deciding not to give him a title shot. Do I really believe that? I don't know.

It sounds like a convenient excuse to not give Armin a title shot. But watching him kind of flip out last night and tackle a dude who's not even a fighter. Yes, wrestling is a martial art, but it's not fighting. Tackling straight up punched him and it just broke out a huge brawl. Is there a world where the EFC uses this against Armin? I mean, that was my first thought. It wasn't even about like, oh, man, he shouldn't have done that, or why are you punching a guy who's not really a fighter?

Why are you letting him get to you this bad? My first thought was, there's a world where Dana White mentions that this week and he's like, you know what? You're going to wait even longer now because we can't trust you're not going to do some dumb shit. And now two times, like even I'm kind of like, man, Like, you don't watch your temper, dude. Like, you know, you're going to fight. Like, come on.

Same as you, brother. The first thing I thought was, this is not a good look for Armin, man. The entire reason that Dana was using right or wrong was that, you know, Armin has caused these problems. Right. Pulled out of a fight at last minute, you know, headbutton Dan Hooker, all these different reasons. Like, why would you give him another reason? It just doesn't make any sense.

And Armin is clearly a hot head who needs. to calm down and, you know, take a step back and focus on what he needs to focus on. But, I mean, first off, like, what a great performance by Arm. And, I mean, there was a really, really good match. And, you know, Georgia, yeah, you said he wrestled Cleveland State. Maybe, you know, he didn't do a ton of things in college or whatever. But he's a hell of good wrestler. I mean, we've seen him on his channel, you know, against some really good guys, man.

Like, he's a hell of good wrestler for sure. you know i don't know if he's like what level we would consider him at but he's a hell of good wrestle armin looked great against them in a pure wrestling match which as far as i know like armin doesn't have a bunch of uh pure wrestling experience so to be able to compete with a guy just with that amount of experience in wrestling is impressive so you know you got to give credit where credits do but one of the things that he probably doesn't realize from not having wrestling experience is that those slaps and stuff are like commonplace. Like when you're in intense freestyle,

particularly in freestyle, but even in college, when you're in these intense matches, the guys are, they're hitting that threshold of a slap versus just a, you know, snapping ahead, or I mean slapping or snapping or, you know,

just pulling on the head, different things. Like they're trying to get as close as they can because they want to, they're scrapping out there, right? But the way the Armin handled it and the way that he waited, until the bell rang and, you know, waited until Georgia was on his back and kind of defenseless.

And, man, that was a bad look. And I don't like it one bit from arm. Man, like, I've, you know, I don't know what my voice means, but, man, I've stuck up for him so much, like, on this podcast. Every week, I'm like, dude, it's fucking bullshit that he doesn't have a title shot. And now you're kind of like, yeah, you should probably still get a title shot. But it's like, if you don't, I get it. You know? Well, it's like, you're right.

Don't give them a reason. You know, don't give them a reason. You're just giving them a reason. It doesn't make sense. Like, even the Dan Hooker thing. You're doing a fucking wrestling match, bro. Like, why do you care so much? Like, you're right.

Like, the slaps and, like, those kind of things. I've seen some pretty chippy wrestling matches where the referee will literally pull both guys in and say, all right, calm this shit down. But they do it. It's not that uncommon. Because you're always trying to posture for position. you're trying to get the upper hand and also you're trying to rattle your opponent

that's a real thing you're trying to get your opponent to get emotional because unlike fighting and I'm not saying fighting you should be emotional in fighting but some guys fight better with emotion and wrestling they're trying to be like ice in the veins just go out there do your work and get out of there

they're trying to get you fired up so you make a mistake so you make a stupid shot or you don't see a shot coming and I think the referee probably should have handled it better like he was just letting them kind of slap away at each other without like warning them but it is what it is but the Dan Hooker thing like that's a like the stupidity of that is you're going to fight a guy in 24

hours why are you headbutton him now like why you know but at least at least it's him and dan hooker both you know top 10 UFC fighters I'm not to georgio he did agate on a little bit but at the same time he's not a fighter he's a wrestler you know what I mean like wrestling is a great you know it is a great foundation for fighting but he is not a fighter this is like this is like I mean I know wrestlers are better equipped for fighting than like a best basketball player, but what would we say Arm and tackle LeBron James, they're beating the shit out of him? Like, dude, he's not a fighter.

Like, what are you doing? And, like, that was, I hate to, I hate to frame it this way, but it was a little cheap. Like you said, he had him kind of down, he jumps on top and just punches him, and then, you know, all hell breaks loose, but it's just like, dude, what are you doing? You know, like, why are you letting this dude? You got to get your priority

straight, man. And here's my thing. His entire focus in his life should be to get the UFC title. I mean, like, get the title fight. Like, he's, he can't even get the title fight because of the issues that he's created. It's like, your entire focus should be to get the UFC title fight. Not to, I mean, Harry, the wrestling match was over. It didn't even matter. You know what I mean? And he won, by the way. It's Armin won the match. Right. It's like, what's the point here? You're like, what are you doing? Like, you're literally just setting yourself up for failure now. And it just doesn't make any sense.

just poor behavior, poor decision-making. You know, I don't know, he needs some coaches or some therapy or something on his team. You know, it needs somebody to settle him down because, you know, if Danny uses this against him, you know, I mean, he's got to regret that, right? He's got to look at himself in the mirror and be like, what the fuck did I do? Well, I mean, and also to that point, like, I'm sure, like, if Arnman was fighting Justin Gage, he's a pretty respectful guy. there's probably not going to be any kind of bad blood. But imagine if Armin had fought Patty or Armin fights Ilya. Ilya is going to 100% try to egg it on and get under his skin.

If you can't handle Georgia O'Pulas, a guy who's not even a fighter, is going to piss you off that bad where you need to tackle him after a wrestling match and punch him. What are you going to do when Ilya Teporia is going hard in the paint, man? And you know, Ilya can too. I like he does not pull any punches. Patty's probably even – Paddy's even worse, right? Yeah.

Imagine if that's the case and then you do a faceoff, you still try. what are you going to punch him right there? Like, what are you doing? Like I said, I thought the Dan Hooker thing was dumb. And at the time, I didn't know he actually broke his nose until I talked to Dan afterwards. And he was like, oh, yeah, he broke my nose. But, you know, I fought.

He's like, I'm not making excuse him. But yeah, he absolutely did break my nose. But dad, I'm like, all right, even then it's so dumb because, dude, you're going to fight him in 24 hours. What are you doing? Like, why are you trying to headbut him now? But the George-I think. He's not John Jones. You know what I mean?

Like, if John Jones does that, like, how him and Cormier at the press conference, It's like throwing shoes at each other and shit. John can get away with that because he's John Jones. Like they're not going to cancel the John Jones fight. You know, it's fucking John Jones. When you're arm and Siruqi, like you got to know your place, you know, like you're not at that. Like if he was undefeated, even if he was like a Kabib, you know, where he's like, you know, 27, 28, no or 29, whatever it is. Like you get like more leeway when you're that guy.

He's just simply not that. I mean, I've, like I said, we've argued for him forever. Like, yeah, he should have the title shot, but he doesn't even have a title yet. I mean, I think he should have the title. You know, I think he should, you know, he would probably beat anybody right now that we know, we know where we stand on this. Yeah, well, I mean, and like, you mentioned, like, thinking about like Connor when the whole bus incident happened and like how ugly that whole thing was. But, like, as dumb as that was, it is. It was Connor.

And it all, like, I knew it was going to happen when it happened. And, like, they were going to use that to promote the fight. When he got the fight with Kabib, sure enough, that was all highlight real. But that was all leading towards, like, you know, made the UFC a lot of money to Connor and Kabib rivalry. What happened with Armin doesn't build anything. It's not like he's going to fight Georgiopoulos. As I say, he's got to get his priorities straight, right? That has nothing to do with the goals in his life, unless his goal is to be R.A.F. champion.

Yeah, so like. Which is, would R.A.F even bring him back? I mean. I mean, I think they will just because that thing got so much attention last that delay. let's do it again and see what he fucks up next time. But it's almost like, yeah, but it's just like, like, don't, as you said, you said it right. You're brilliantly right. Don't give them a reason.

I mean, I still don't truly buy that the Dan Hooker thing really cost him a title. So I think they had in their heads, they were going to do, they were going to do Patty and Justin. But they used it and said, oh, well, you know, that's why. Now you're just giving another reason because now we got, we got Max Holloway and Charles Oliver fight in a few days. If Max goes out there and puts on a. another spectacular performance and finishes Charles in the way he finished Gatia at U.S.C. 300.

Do you think there's not a world where they're like, you know what, we're going to do Ilya and Justin in July or whatever, and the winner's going to fight Max Holloway. And I know Max has a loss to I get it. But tell me there's not a – because Max is a very popular fighter. Max is – and he's – I think he's actually going to be pretty damn good at lightweight, if I'm being honest with you. I don't think you ever should have gone back to featherway, but that's a whole other discussion. But I'm like, tell me there's not a world where they're just like, you know what?

We're going to get Max the shot against the winner of this. and Armands once again left on the outside looking in and Dana says, you know what? We can't trust you, man. You're a hot head. We're going to put you on stage with Ilya and you're going to fucking swing in him 24 hours before a fight

and you're going to ruin the main event. Like, there's now a precedent. He's done it twice. I mean, it's kind of a good point. Like, whatever it is behind the scenes that we don't know about that the UFC does have it. And maybe it was when he pulled out the one time, right?

And just, you know, that really got Dana up in the butt and he was like, babe, like, fuck this guy, you know, for whatever reason. But whatever reason it is, it does seem like, you know, like with the Dan Hooker thing, they're like, bro, like, you gave us a reason. Like, we're going to take it. And you said it perfectly. Like, he's just giving him another reason. Yeah.

Like, we can't be doing that. That's not your prerogative in life. Like you want the fucking title. You go out there, you be clean and you do the things you need to do. You live properly. You talk properly. And you wait for your turn. and you go and you win the fucking title,

then it's different. Now you're the guy defending the title. Now, you know, I mean, you know, I still wouldn't want to see him do those kinds of things, but it's like, you got the title now. Like now the burden's on everybody else to fight you. You know, now you got the target. Now you can act a fool and be a little hot-headed or whatever.

If you be whoever you want to be, you know, that's, again, that's why John Jones gets away with it. But how much shit is John Jones got away with or Connor? I mean, Connor is obviously a little different, but like John Jones, I mean, he's the greatest ever in some, you know, arguments, right? But, you know, he's pretty much universally accepted as the greatest ever. You get away with shit when you're the greatest ever.

You just do. And you can, and like there's a world where you can, like, you can, like, he won the match. He got the win, he got the final movie, won to match. Pulling Alex Pereira, do the whole, like, you know, stare down in me. I beat you, like you taunt him in that way. And then Georgia does some stupid. Georgia tries to tackle you after the match. Then you defend yourself.

Then you're not the aggressor. You know what I mean? But you being the idiot who gets the win and then you tackle the guy and punch him when he's not a fighter, you're just like, it's making you look terrible. There's no way about it. You're not going to come out of this looking at the worst for wear. And like I said, to this day, I don't believe the Dan Hooker thing really played a factor. But now I guarantee someone's going to bring him up to Dana.

this week and Dan's like you can't be doing that shit. You can't, I get, I don't think he's going to go as far as saying, like, we're not going to give him a title shot, but he'll say this is what we're talking about. Like, watch, I'm telling you, Dana's going to say something to that effect. This is what happened with Dan Hooker. Now we have another case where this guy's a hothead and he can't control his temper. And he's a fighter. What are we going to do?

Put him on stage with Dilliot Topor. He's going to fucking cause a brawl and ruin a main event or what you know what? You know what I mean? Like, they're going to use this. Now, they may not, you know, in the long grand scheme of things, maybe they don't punish him further. but yeah, like don't give them the reason. Don't give them the issues because now you've done it again.

Now you've done it. You showed it two times where you're kind of a hot head, letting the situation get to you. And they're like, well, we can't trust you, man. We just can't trust you. Yeah, but does it really matter what Dana says? He doesn't really have any part in the matchmaking, right? Yeah, apparently.

That's what I said. Speaking of matchmaking, I mentioned before we get to 326, they announce you of C-327. Uri Perhoshka taken on Carlos Alberg for the vacant. Light heavyweight town. There's some other good fights in the card. They now is Binaldereux and Manuel Torres and a couple other fights on there. And I don't want to not put the shot on that card.

But obviously, we'll break that one down. We already know they're going to do Joshua Van and Tutsuia Tire, which is a fun flyway tile to fight. I kind of wish it was Minil Kopp, but doesn't need to hear him or there. But I think the biggest part of that is the fact that Yeri and Carlos are fighting for the vacant light heavyweight. This is not interim title. It says a lot of time, doesn't it? Alex Prayer gave up his belt, which means he's going to heavyweight. We talked about this a couple weeks ago, all the ways we could save heavyweight.

One of the moves is already in place now because there's no reason Alice would give up his belt unless he's going to heavyweight. And the big question is, is he going to fight John Jones or is he going to fight Surreal gone? Because obviously Tom Aspinall is out of action. Now, all the rumors I'm hearing and things I'm hearing is they are once again laser focused on trying to do John Jones versus Alex Pereira as the main event for the White House card, which Connor's a massive star. Connor being back would be huge, but let's be honest. John Jones's Alex Prairie is like the second biggest fight they could book besides Connor DS3, which is another fight. I think they should book, actually.

But kind of a two-part question, Matt. Alex moving up to heavyweight, it's kind of what we talked about is happening because it's clearly happening. And is it the right move to do the John Jones fight or should he be doing the Cyril gone fight? Well, you're talking about the White House. You've got to have the American who's favored to win, right? And I mean, for the main event of the White House, you've got to think that.

pulling out all the stops to try to get john jones on this they they want an american to win the biggest fight in in history at the white house like of course they're gonna go for john jones and yeah that's pretty i think that's pretty straightforward right i mean like like how many american champions are they even going to have on the card you know i mean how many american champions are there i don't know so yeah there's one there's kela harrison she's literally and kail's hurt you know she's got that injury so Yeah, so I mean, I think it's a no-brainer, you know, and they're going to try to do everything they can to get John Zones.

But I don't know if that's going to be so easy for them, you know, especially, I don't know if it's going to play any part or not, but this whole like Connor Ben signing thing and it's like John Jones, you know he sees that shit and he's going to walk in and be like, you know, I need some cash too, bro. Well, here's the thing. This last week they were doing the financial call for TCO. And TKO president, Mark Shapiro was like,

we're losing money. Like we're going to spend $60 million on this event. We're going to lose at least half and probably more when it's all said and done, not even talking about salaries and stuff. I think, and let's be honest, they're a corporation. Corporations are crooked. They're going to ride off a bunch of shit. They're not going to really lose money.

They're going to, you know, just like when you hear all the stories about Jeff Bezos, he pays less taxes than we pay. There's a reason why people talk about that because all the loopholes and write-offs and shit. So I don't think the EOC is really going to just take a bath on this White House card. but the rumor is they're talking about Connor coming back for International Fight Week

that's a card where they're going to make money I mean they're going to you know that's the that's going to be a huge gate you know huge whatever huge ratings or they're going to do ratings on Paramount Plus or CBS where it's at they're going to take a bath on this card no doubt about it but

taking a bat with John Jones and I don't know what they're going to pay him I don't know what they're going to pay Alex Pereer but I'd imagine that's they're going to put the bulk of the pay into those two guys and probably filled the card with you know good fights I'm not saying they're not good fights but they're probably not going to do, you know, Ilya and Justin.

They're probably not going to do, like, you know, five title fights or whatever they were talking about doing. But, yeah, I mean, John's sure. John has the leverage now. Like, John, you know, this is, John's been begging for it. And I think there's going to be a little bit of, I think John, I don't think John's going to give a discount, but also, John's made it very clear.

Like, he probably has one fight left, and he really, really wants to find the White House. Now, negotiating-wise, you kind of set yourself up for failure a little bit because you now give them a nin. You know, hey, if you wanted this White House card, you know, we're going to pay you $10 million. and we're not going to pay you $20 million. Oh, yeah.

So, but, I mean, I think if this is the one they want, I think they'll be able to get it done. And Dana said they're going to announce it, you know, within days. So I assume they're probably, you know, already done. And, of course, they're not going to let it out. I mean, we already know Alex because obviously gave up his title. Why would he give up his title unless he's going to heavyweight? But this is the fight, man. Like, I understand John's going to be favored to win.

Am I going to pick John Jones to beat Alex Pereira? Yes, 100%. But Alex is a star, and he is a freaking nasty fighter. and every time we seemingly kind of, you know, Ankelye being the first time, and I'll be the first to admit. I was like, I think Angoliath was going to beat him a second time. He went out there just absolutely terminated Ankeliah in the first round. So I'm never going to count Alex Prayer, man.

Never count that dude out. This is a fun fight. And it's one of the rare non-title fights that the UFC could do that would be considered as big as any title fight. You don't need a belt. Like, if it was Alex and Cyril Gone, would we watch? Sure, but it would probably be an interim title. and we already know like the real heavyweight champion is Tom Aspinall. Like it's kind of lackluster in a way because you're like Tom's really the guy.

I know he's injured right now, but he's the guy. You don't need a title for this one. It's John Jones, Alex Prairie. This is just a great fight. Yeah. I feel you. Do they not put a title on this though, you think? I mean, I don't know. I mean, but to what they do it every they want, man.

Yeah, that's true. I mean, to what extent, though, because if John wins, he's going to win and just give up the belt again? Like, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it could. But yeah, I think, the only downside of this fight

I'm with you like I'm never going to necessarily count Alex Pereira out but John's going to beat him like he did Surreal Gone like this would be a two minute fight at best I mean John his last fight biggest fight ever you know on the White House John goes in

takes him down smashes him if Alex has only been training wrestling and jiu jihitsu for the last five years he's not hanging with John Jones John Jones took down Daniel Cormier he's going to take down Alex Pereira I promise you. Yeah.

If it was just about anybody else, even if it feels like Daniel Cormey, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, you know, like Alex is a good chance, whatever. John's a special guy, and he's going to be prepared for this, and he's going to, he's going to,

I think, you know, we'll see him at the peak of, you know, what he can do at this age, at least. And I don't, I don't think he's going to be a hard fight, which is unfortunate because it'll probably be

main event of the White House and everybody was like, oh, but everybody will be cheering because the American won. We'll have the USA chance and even if Alex pulls off the upset, if he does pull off the upset.

If he pulls off the upset, that's... But the conversation, I don't like they're trying to, I think, yes, I think they're trying to find a fight where it's a big fight and the American is going to be favorite to win because when you do Justin and Ilya, Justin's going to be a massive underdog and like, could he win? Sure, but

would you pick him to win? No. I would I think I'll be just as much favorite to beat Justin as John's going to be to beat Alex. But the difference is if Alex does pull it off and actually pulls off the upset, we're not going to be talking about, oh, what a black cloud over America. We're going to be talking about Alex Perez to beat the greatest fighter of all time. The only guy to ever beat John Joe. John Jones does not have a legit loss on his record from somebody actually besting him in the octagon,

Dominic Reyes, aside. But like, that, that does away with the whole America narrative. And Alex is like a good dude. You know what I mean? Like, no one's going to hate Alex Prayer winning the fight. You know what I mean? Alex is a nice guy, very popular. He'll say Chama, we'll all freak out.

Like, you know, everyone's going to be. But the flip side is, John's going to be favorite because you really can't think of that many matchups right now where the American in that kind of a magnitude of a fight, even a championship fight. They're going to be like, I'll be like, I'm not going to pick any American to be him right now. Like, I love Max. I love Justin. I'm not going to pick either one of them to be Ilya.

I mean, I don't know when you go down the line, like, you know, where are we, you know, where are we going to go on with guys who are going to pick him to like Peter Yon, obviously I know he's not fighting. He's coming back from back surgery, but like Marab's not American. You can put Sean O'Malley in there, I guess. But like, even then I don't know that I'd pick him to win. I don't know. Like, Kayla Harrison was the one, but Kayla's injured right now.

And I don't think they would have headlined the White House with Kayla versus Amanda Dunez. But John's the guy. And like I said, even if he loses, which I don't think he will, but even if he does, it becomes the story of Alex Perrier just beat the goat. It doesn't become, oh, America is blemished or something. it's Alex Prayer just pulled up him massive upset by defeating you go. It's a win-win for the UFC there.

Yeah. And John beats Alex Pereer, which I think he will. John rides off in the sunset as the greatest fighter of all time. He just headlined the White House and he, you know, and clearly he's a big fan of President Trump. He's talked about that a lot. So, you know, Trump will probably go and put the belt around his waist or whatever.

They do a belt or I don't know. But this is like their best chance because, like, you can do, I mean, I guess you could put Connor against some American and some America would beat Connor. like, what does that do for the UFC? They just lost Connor. Like, Connor's supposed to be their biggest draw. If he gets knocked out again, like, oh, well, he's done.

Like, what are you really losing here? You know what I mean? Like, Alex is still a star whether he loses to John Jones or not. And if John Jones wins, it's a huge moment. The American one, White House celebration, blah, blah, blah, you know? Like, it really is the perfect fight. Yeah. Yeah, I think they're going to do everything they can to make it happen.

But he said, John Jones has to know he has the leverage here, too. You know, the UFC's going to try to pull the league. leverage and, you know, John Judd has no, he's got the leverage too. Because, like you said, who else they're going to bring in there? I mean, you know, Connor, Nate, like you said, they're talking about for international fight week, even though I don't see it happening. You know, I'm going to stick to my guns there. But, you know, that's the only other really big fight that I could think of.

I mean, Sean O'Malley, Peter Yon, I actually think is, again, I think you said Peter Yon's had back surgery. he won't be ready in time, but, you know, if they could do that, I think they would like that. But I think it's going to be really interesting to see what the, what they come up with for this card. And I'm guessing, you know, I'm not trying to be like negative Nancy here, but I'm guessing we're probably going to be a little underwhelmed, actually. I mean, just like what, I mean, what we've kind of talked about for, I don't know, weeks or months now, just what, what there's, who's, who's out there. Like, what could they even do?

Well, I mean, I'm sure they'll come up with something, but. They will. And I mean, let's be honest. Like, if they did John Jones versus Alex Prairie and they did Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Corona, they don't need anything else. Those two fights alone would sell to call them. They're not getting that fight, though. And the reality is the UFC is such an international organization.

Now a lot of the best fighters are from Russia and Dagestan and Brazil and, you know, other play Canada, whatever. And so it's harder. So, like, if we really are trying to make this like a quote unquote America first card. And I'm not saying they should be mismatches, but like, okay, you're going to put Bo Nickel on there. I think Bo Nichols pretty much a shoe-in on there. But Bo Nichols still, like, not even quite a top-15 middleweight. And when they did put him in there, they're going to top-15 middleweight, he got beat up by Rainier-de-Ritter. So they're probably not going to throw

him in there against that kind of guy again. So they're going to find out, you know, a fight that would make sense, but winnable, you know, they're going to try to do that to Bo-Nichael. I don't know if they're going to put Colby Covington on there, but, like, Colby's another one, like, big America guy, obviously a big Trump guy. They're not going to feed him to, you know, they're not going to do the Kumar Usman fight a third time. They're not going to put him in there with, I don't know, they're going to put him in there with Shavkat. I know it's not going to be Shavkat.

He's injured, but like, they're not going to put him in there where he's just going to ragdoll and mall Kobe. They want to give Colby a fight. He could win. So, yeah, like, this is, this is the biggest. Like a Colby fight, like, that's underwhelming him against anybody, right? Yeah, that's a very underwhelming thought, right? Like, just him being on the card, period.

But if they book Jones, Pereira, the undercard, I'm not saying it doesn't matter, it does, but like, at that point, they do a six or seven fight card and the main event is John Jones-Ales-Praera. That's what we're going to talk about. That's what I guess that's maybe that's where, you know, I felt like we were kind of being pitched that this is going to be six, seven ginormous fights. Every fight's going to be big. Every fight's going to be important.

Yeah, that's what I mean was. We're probably going to be underwhelmed because I don't think it's going to end up being that way. Yeah, I agree. No, I agree. And, I mean, that was the same with U.S. 300. We waited, way to waiter for the main event, and they're like,

Alex Prajamaul Hill, we're like, all right, like, not a bad fight, but you built it up, like it was going to be fucking Brock Lesnar versus John Jones. But, yeah, I mean, listen, that is a massive fight. And by the way, if I'm John Jones, and I don't know, it sounds like they're already negotiated because Dana said they're going to announce the fights this week coming up. If I'm John Jones, my negotiation starts at $15 million.

You pay Connor Ben. and I know they're not, they're telling up paying Conner Ben, it is Turkey Al Shake paying that bill. The UFC's not paying him a dime. It's all turkey al-shake, but the visual is Zufa Boxing, which is UFC owners. If I'm John Jones, my starting point for negotiations

is a $15 million. Because if Connor Ben is where $15 million, is a co-main, did you see they booked him to as a co-main event with Regis, which is a fine fight, but like, 15 million for that. If I'm John Jones, my starting point is $15 million. Like, all right, we're going to go from there. How far up are we going to go beyond

$15 million. And also the one guy we're kind of forget about, too, coming off a great win, Sean Strickland. Do you think he does not fight Hamza on this card? Man, I don't know. I mean, that seems like a no-brainer to me for, obviously, like Strickland's going to say what Strickland says. I don't know how they're going to feel about that, but I think the UFC and Dana and then probably agree with most of what he says anyway.

So, you know, he's a very Trump-type person where he just says a lot of off-the-cuff stuff. So I don't know. I just, I kind of figured when he won that fight, you know, people were talking about him getting a title shot. I was a white house right there. Like, Sean Strickland's about his American as hell. I mean, if they do John Jones, Alex Pereira as the main event, they do Hamzaa versus Strickland as the co-main event, you get Boehleckle, a couple other people. I mean, that's a good card. You know what I mean?

It's a good card. It's a good card. It's a good. It's a gamer, yeah. Yeah, it's a good. If they only do like a six or seven-fight card, sure. You get a couple more on your, Bo-Nichael gets on it. And at that point, if they put Colby on there, it doesn't matter.

Colby's not anywhere near the main event. He's just on the card. Sure, he's Mr. America, Mr. Trump, whatever. He'll let him be on the card. But, like, I wouldn't want to depend on that guy to be my co-main event. Like that. Colby has one. Colby's last win over a current fighter on the UFC roster is Hoffield de Sanios in 2018.

That's his last win over a first current. Isn't that wild? But yeah, like, if you do Hansa Strickland and you do Pereira Jones, you don't really need anything else. I mean, they will, of course. They're going to book, you know, four or five undercard fights or whatever. But like, that's what I'm going to talk about. It's about the pitch, right? Like, that's what we were being pitched from original.

It's going to be six, seven ginormous fights. And that's what I'm hoping we get. But I can't, you know, we can't come up with six to seven great fights like that. We'll see, you know, the UFC's good at pulling this stuff off, though, right? And we've been underwhelmed at times like UFC 300, but, you know, there's other times where they pull some shit out. Like UFC 200, you know, was awesome. So who knows how it's going to play out? I guess we'll get the announcement this week, right?

That's what he said. This week should come. Now, when it's going to come, how it's going to come? I don't know. But, yeah, I mean, hopefully we won't have to wait much longer to find out how good or bad. I mean, like I said, if they do, I mean, for me, this is me saying this. If they do Pereira Jones, even though I know it's a bit of a mismatch, John Jones should win that fight going away. it's still a cool fight.

And I've gone on the record a million times. I think John Jones is the greatest of all time. I think Alex Perez one of the greatest of all time. It's a big fight. And at that point, like, yeah, the undercard matters, but for me, I'm going to have all eyes focused on that main event. And ultimately, that's what we all do. Like it or not, we always focus on the main event.

You know, like, UFC 300, like Max Holloway knocking at Justin Gage, ended up being the real highlight of that card. But we still had, like, Zhang Wei defended her title in a fight that no one really remembers. and then Alex Pereira knocked out Jamal Hill. We remember the ending of him doing the whole, you know, the Chama thing where he points down out of him after the cool knockout. But, like, that was not, you know, everyone was like, oh, my gosh, me the greatest main event ever.

It wasn't. But, you know, Max Holloway put on, and there were other good fights. You know, Kela came out and wrecked Holly Holme. You know, there were other good fights in the card. But, uh, usually 99% of the time comes down to the main event. And UFC 300's main event was a little underwhelming. Pereira Jones, even though it's a bit of a mismatch,

and Jones is going to be a huge favorite. It is going to be a big fight. about the greatest of all time against one of the, I mean, Alex Pereira is a two-division champion going up to heavyweight, and he's a massive dude. Like, this is a fun fight. And who knows, John? Maybe that was the whole point of John putting out the arthritis news being like,

hey, I'm vulnerable. I'm vulnerable now. Like, you know, you put those odds down a little bit. But, yeah, I mean, it's still a big fight. And because there, I mean, what other, like, Islam? I think Islam would obviously be a massive fight on there. But, like, Islam Ian Gary, is that really a White House fight? Like, is that, you know what I mean?

Like, I don't know. So, you know, and Strickland, I like the idea of Strickland, even though I think Homs out will beat Strickland, at least you're giving an American a chance. Yeah, and, man, Strickland is definitely one of those guys you just can't ever count out, you know? I mean, of all guys that you just can't count out, John Strickland is absolutely one of them. Yeah, so, yeah, there's options. And, I mean, listen, you know, I think if they do Pereer Jones, the rest of the card matters, but it doesn't matter at the same time because that is such a big fight. It's one of the few, you know, like if Connor actually came back and fought Nate Diaz at the third time, it doesn't really matter what else was on that car because it's Connor and Diaz.

If they actually get in the ring, it's going to be a big fight. There's not many of those left now. Like, let's be honest. Like, you know, as you mentioned, we did this story a few weeks ago. Like, basically, you know, keep your expectations low because they don't have the superstars they once had. You're absolutely right. John Jones is one of the few remaining ones they have. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it makes me wonder how the future the UFC is going to be like, you know, because I think we may have lived through the heyday of the UFC, me, you know, our generation, when we, when we had the, you know, we came up with like Tito Ortiz and Chuck Liddell and and Ken Shamrock, Rainy Couture and, I mean, what glorious times that was, right? And then we've seen, you know, the rise of Connor and Rhonda. And I don't, I can't see all this repeating again. maybe that's just the old grandpa in me talking and you know back of monta or whatever but but i'm not

i'm not seeing where they could this could be repeated and even alice perere as great as he is i mean he didn't he doesn't feel like he's on the level of like you know connor or hell even like a chuckled hell you know back in the day no i agree i don't know if that's just me you know maybe maybe maybe because I'm an old talking head, whatever. But yeah, it just doesn't feel the same as it did back then. Well, I'll compare it to this. And I'm not defending the UFC. I think you're absolutely right.

But, like, I don't watch basketball. Haven't watched basketball in years. I know, like, names. Like, everyone knew Michael Jordan. Everyone knew, like, you know, the Dream Team from, like, the 90s, Isaiah Thomas and Carl Malone and all those guys. Even if you didn't watch basketball, you just kind of permeated pop culture.

You knew the names. I don't watch basketball. And now I know, like, three players. I know LeBron. I always bring up LeBron because he's from Ohio and obviously is, you know, one of the greatest ever to play it. But, like, I heard names talk about, I just happened to, like, I was on ESPN the other day or something.

I was like flipping channels. They were talking about some basketball game. They were talking about some guy from Detroit, some other guy from, I don't know, Oklahoma. Who the fuck are these people? Like, I don't know who these people are. And the NBA is a little bit more, you know, bulletproof because their, their fandom is built on city loyalty and things like that team loyalty versus players.

But, like, 10, 20, 20 years ago, I could have named you a bunch of basketball players because they were just all so famous. I'm like, LeBron and who the fuck else? I don't know. Like, I don't know basketball. Just by just, I'm not saying, I'm not saying, I just don't know the names, you know what I mean? So like, I think that's kind of like the UFC is the brand now, much like the NBA. Like, they're just like, we're going to put on the UFC show.

Here's a title. Here's a couple people and we're going to tell you why you should watch it. And it's not probably going to crush it in the ratings, but I think that also speaks to why they did to deal with Paramount because paper reviews dying. And they're like, you know, we're not going to make, we're not going to sell pay previews for, you know, Kayla Harrison, Amanda Dunes. but I guarantee a lot of people tune in just to watch that. I mean, I love the fight. I think it's a great fight.

But like they're going to sell a car. They're going to try to sell $80 pay-per-views for Zhang Wei Lee and McKenzie Dern. Like, what are we doing? Like, are people really going to get to the... Would I watch that fight? Sure, but would I pay $80 to watch that fight? Maybe not.

And, you know, I guess maybe that's the bigger question. Is it, you know, with the age of social media and all kinds of people getting famous that, you know, probably would have never. been famous without social media. I mean, I think it kind of feels that way all across the board. Is it just a UFC exclusive thing? Or is it just that way across the board?

Because, you know, keeping it real, like, I also don't feel the same about movie stars, right? Like, you know, when we're growing up, I mean, we had like the Brad Pitts and, you know, I don't know. Samuel Little Jackson. You know, I don't know. But I never was a big movie guy. But, you know, there were certain stars that were just bigger than life. And, you know, we had bands.

you know there was there was musicians like metallic and shit that were bigger than life and now it just feels like even the big ones are just one of many yeah and i don't know again maybe maybe that's a broader than just the ufc maybe maybe that's what's actually going on or maybe i'm just an old fucking talking head you know my kids feel completely different about it i remember a couple years ago there was some clip of an influencer i think his name is i show speed and he got punched by Francis and Ghana or something like that at least some UFC guy hit him or kicked him And I remember

I was talking to our staff at MMA fighting And I was like, who the fuck is this guy? And he had like 10 million followers That's like the biggest Twitch channel ever And one of the guys I worked with His kid was like Insanely excited about it Because his kid's like 10 years old

And he watches him on YouTube And he's like, oh, I know him I'm like, who the fuck is this guy? He had more followers than like 98% of the UFC fighters Like he's just some random influencer I had no idea. Yeah, I mean, maybe I'm just an old fart now, and I just don't know. But I think that's like that is like, and look at, I mean, the two biggest, the two biggest

combat sports events that we know are booked right now are Rhonda Rousey Gina Carano, two fighters who haven't fought in a combined 28 years. And Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pachial rematching in September, guys who are clearly past their prime. One guy's 48, the other guy's 47. What are we, like, it's either nostalgia with like those kind of fights or, you know, look at like when the influencers do their stupid fights. Look at how, you know, when Jake Paul was coming up and first getting famous, Logan Paul was boxing people.

Like, that does more business than the average, like, good fight. And the biggest fight at the year last year was Mike Tyson. Yeah. And they're doing Alexander Usig against Rico Verhoven. Like, they're trying to sell us that as like a really good boxing match in 2026. To me, it's a little bit interesting. I mean, it's kind of fun. It's more fun, but it's only the fact that Ucic is,

world champion. To be fair, he's beat all, everybody. I mean, he's top of the world, you know, there's no question. And, you know, there's not really a clear number one contender that, you know, it really presents him much of a challenge. So in that sense, I get it. And to me, it is kind of fun,

though. Like, it's... It is. Like, I think Rico might give him better work than people think. I don't think you will. I mean, I like Rico very much, but like... Just better. I don't... I don't I'm not going to pick him to win. I'm not being stupid. But, but I think he he's going to give him a better, it's going to look better.

He's going to look a lot better than people think you will. I would have rather seen Rico box Francis. I think that would have been a lot of fun. Yeah, that would have been real good. But I mean, yeah, I mean, Rico's a legend. I don't know why he's doing it, really, because it's not like Rico's some gigantic star, you know. Maybe in Europe, maybe he's big enough star. He's got a pretty good name in Europe and he's from the Netherlands or whatever.

He's done movies and stuff. So I think he's got a big enough name, but this is just about, you know, I mean, And you're right. To Usu's point, he has no one. I mean, he already beat everyone. Who the hell is going to fight right now?

Like, I mean, it's really not like a true number one because Moses and Tom is not ready yet. You know what I mean? It's like, who are we going to put in there with him? So.

But when he is. Yeah. I mean, but. Yeah. And Usuk, like, 38?

He's not a young guy. So. Right. You know. That's what I'm saying. He might be aged out by time Moises gets up there. Yeah.

So, I mean, I'm not saying I have a problem. I don't have a problem with it all. I'm just saying, like, that's where we're at. Like, that, you know, like, they're trying. And they, like, I'm not kidding. Like, they did Anthony Joshua against Jake Paul.

Jake Paul had no chance of winning, but let's just say he threw a hell-Mary punch and somehow caught Anthony Joshua. Do you think there's not a world where they just would have shifted him right into boxing Alexander Usig? Like, come on. They would have done that a thousand times over, and Usick would have absolutely murdered him, but they would have done it. You know what I mean?

Like, that's the world we live in now. So, yeah, I mean, it is what it is, man. Either that is the nostalgia thing. Like, oh, my God, we're going to see Ronda Rousey and Gina Carano fight 20 years past their prime. Great, this is awesome. Yeah, but like you said, that's kind of what I'm running through my head. Like, is it nostalgia thing because we're just the old motherfuckers? Like, did our parents go through this same shit?

You know, because, I mean, certainly, like, when our parents were our age are like, ah, this fucking music sucks these days, you know, those fucking rappers and, you know, and all this shit. But, but, like, it just feels like there's no stars anymore. Like, everybody's kind of, I mean, I guess everybody's a, I don't know what the hell I'm saying. It just doesn't feel the same. I think it's accessibility. I mean, like I said, like there's people on TikTok who have billions of followers who make funny videos.

No idea who they are. Who to certain people feel as famous as Michael Jordan or Tom Cruise because they follow them and they have 10 million followers. To you and I, I'm on TikTok. I have a TikTok account and I follow people on there, but I don't care about like the influencer shit. that's why I said that I Show Speed guy who's this guy he's like the biggest video game streamer on planet earth I guess I had no idea why I don't play video games

and I'm not fucking 14 but to the 14 year old video game playing crowd he's a bigger star to them than Tom Cruz like they think he's the biggest I mean a great example is like you have a buddy here in town Ross Smith and most people don't even know who he is but like you ever heard his name no no but he's got

I think four million followers now you know he's got a great little gig, you know, and he does skits with his granny. She's like 99 years old now, an amazing woman. I mean, it's amazing how healthy she is at 99, and she's hilarious and does a lot of fun things. And it's a great follow. But like, he's got like four million followers. And, you know, he gets, he went to like the World Cup and the Super Bowl, like, gets tickets to the Super Bowl. Like, gets tickets to the Super Bowl. But, like, normal people, like, don't even know who he is. Yeah. Well, I mean, Go back years ago when Jake and Logan Paul first became famous.

I was like, who the fuck are these guys? And like, I remember when Logan Paul was doing that boxing match, the original boxing match with like whatever, whoever he was fighting the fucking other influencer guy. And they're like, oh, my God, this is such a big deal. Who the fuck are these people? I have no idea of these people. Now I know who they are because, like, you know, I had to cover their fights and shit. But like, when they first started, I had no clue who Jake and Logan Ball were.

Yeah, like, KSI. Never heard that name in my life. KSI. That's the one of the one. Yeah. And Logan, the only reason I actually did know Logan Paul's name very briefly is because he did that thing in the suicide forest in Japan and like videotaped a dead body

and I remember the controversy around that I remember like that name because he got in a huge amount of trouble here and were like, holy shit, what a dirty thing to do to literally video tapes someone who committed suicide but that's all I knew about him. I didn't know who he was, didn't know what he did. I just remember him saying this dude

went to this forest and he had like 10 million followers on YouTube. Yeah, I didn't know that was. That's all I knew about him and I had no idea who Jake Paul was. I had zero idea. So to kind of bring this all back around, you know, again, when we're talking about this happening with the UFC, I think one of the things the UFC has always done so well is they've always been so far ahead of the curve.

Like they've really done well keeping up with the trends and even being ahead on the trends. I remember in 2009 or 10, you know, they had the UFC, what they call it, when they brought everybody out to the summit. The summit, yeah. Yeah, the summits, right? I think they did two of them. They brought, you know, four, 500 fighters out there, put us up in hotels, fed us, made us feel all special. The whole thing was to get us on social media.

Like, I never heard of Twitter in my life. And they had this woman up there that at work for Twitter telling us about Twitter and how to use it. I mean, I walked away, still not knowing what the hell it was. But, you know, I went up to her after. I was like, hey, can you teach me how to do this? And she's like, yeah, here's that you make a profile. And then told me to eat shit,

basically but that like that got me started on it you know and just realizing like they've always been very ahead of the curve on these things and that I think that goes to say goes without saying that that's been a huge part of their business and but it but you know I guess what I'm getting is I also see where I don't like it as much without the stars yeah you know we we I like to having the Conners and the Rondas and the Chuck Liddles and the, you know, and the Tito's, which I don't know how much Tito was, Randy Cotors. And I like this stuff. Yeah.

You know, having the one guy that everybody looks up to and is kind of setting the course for the UFC. I mean, but you got to remember, like, this all goes in hills and valleys because, like, there was a time I remember when they booked like Rampage against Keith Yardine to headline a card. I think it was here in Columbus. I was not mistaken. He was here in Columbus. I fought on that card. Yeah.

Like, you know, like, at the time I'm kind of grown. Like, what? In The Rampage and Keith Jardine, like, that's a main event of a paper view. Like, we always go through these ebbs and flow. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if we're ever going to have another Connor or another Ronda. I don't know if that's ever going to have. But then, like, and, you know, like, who thought, you know, when Chuck was gone, when Chuck started losing, like, Chuck didn't,

Chuck wasn't a star anymore. And I think, to us not nearly as much in magnitude, but there was a time when Tito was a star. He was just, you know, early, early days when, like, you know, wasn't nearly what it is now. The bandbacious wasn't as big. Yeah. Yeah, but they knew him. Everyone knew Tito and, like, Tita built big rivalries. But then Tito was gone. Then Chuck was gone.

And then we waited a couple years and here comes Conner. Here comes Rhonda. So I don't know that we're ever going to get back to that again. But it always takes like one or two people to glam on people. It takes a couple. Yeah. People jump on them and they say, because I think like, I don't think Alex Prairie is like a superstar. But I think he is a star because, like, people do care about him.

Like when he says things, people pay attention and people want to know what he's got to say. That could change if he goes and beats John Jones, right? Exactly. Yeah, he goes out there. That could be the guy. Highlights John Jones and goes, Chama, you know, he's a massive, massive. Yeah, that's massive. Yeah, that's massive. But I guess, you know, I go back to the, I mean, Connor was, I was obviously like the epitome of it in the top of it.

And when, like, when he fought Kabib, everybody watched that fight. Or when Wanderousie fought Holly Holie home, I mean, everybody watched it. It was, you know, all your friends were talking about it. I didn't even want to watch the fight. you know like ronda and holly i didn't care at all but i watched it yeah so you know i kind of miss that you know i don't i don't feel like that's going to happen with even with the white house card in my maybe probably with the white house card but maybe like the the international fight we car i don't feel like it's going to happen i don't feel like my friend's going to call me

oh we have to watch us fight and we have to get together and do this and that i call it appointment viewing, right? Like when you change your life around watching a fight, right? You got to watch me. I changed my life. I changed my life around and took a day off work so I could watch Fadoor and Crow Cop live when it happened in Pride back in the early 2000s. Obviously, this is my job. But are people like, I got to cancel plans to watch a UFC event? Like that doesn't feel like we're in that stage right now.

Unless, like I said, unless they get a counterback right now or maybe they do John Jones, Alex Perrin in the White House. And that's going to be on a Sunday night, too. That's a Sunday night car, which is kind of an odd time. June 14th is a Sunday so like more people will be at home and things like that but I call it appointment viewing and doesn't feel like there's nearly as many appointment viewing fights these days but you know I mean here and there like I said there's a couple of years and there they got to pull them out who knows like I said I mean there was a time remember when Randy Couture we talked about this with heavyweight when Randy Couture fought Tim Sylvia wasn't like

that was the best heavyweight like Randy was coming off a couple of loss of light heavyweight like we're just like throwing him in there and then of course he wins and then Brock Lesnar comes in and now we got like a star again. So it all kind of goes back and forth. And right now, yeah, you're right. I don't feel like there's many superstars. But who knows? Like I said, maybe Gable Steven comes in and he becomes the new John Jones or the new

Daniel Cormier or whatever becomes a massive star. We don't know. Yeah, I like how everybody was talking shit because he got kicked once. He's like, he still wrecked that guy. Like, Gable's going to be the man. Forget about it, guys. He comes in. Heavyweight is over.

100%. Before we get out of here, we mentioned top of the show, of course, UFC 326 this week in Max Holloway. Charles Oliva, BNF, I don't care about the BNF title. Five rounds, great fight. Charles coming off that win over Gamrod looked really good doing it. Of course, Max, knockout over Justin Gagey, obviously had the loss to Ilya, but then comes out and has a great fight and beats Dustin Porier. And now they're doing this BMF title fight.

I got to be honest, Matt. I think Charles Oliverer is phenomenal. and I think especially if this fight hits the ground, it's a much harder fight for Max because Charles is a world-class grappler. But standing-wise, like, I'm not saying it's a mismatch because Charles has really improved his striking

and he's got some pretty nasty knockdowns and he did to Geish, he did it to Porier. But on the feet, I feel like Max is just a far superior fighter on the feet. And Max, Max, has fought every style of fighter possible. And I don't remember anyone ever really taking down and dominating Max. Holloway on the ground. Outside of when he lost to Connor, when Connor blew his ACL and Max was injured as well,

and he did a lot of wrestling in that fight, whatever was, like 13 years ago, 12 years ago, whatever that was. Like, I love Charles. Let me be clear about that. Charles is awesome. But I don't give him, like, if you're making me pick, like, I'd say it's like 75, 25, max for this fight. Like, I think Charles is going to have a shot because Charles is a very good fighter.

But if this stays standing, like, I feel like it's going to turn into one of those fights where he's just going to keep eating jabs, eating hooks, he's going to get beat up a little bit, and then maybe, you know, Max puts him away at some point. I just, I just don't see a great, I don't see an easy path to victory for Charles. I do see one for Max. Yeah, I know right where he's coming from there.

I'm a little more 50-50 on it, just because Charles just surprises us all the time, right? No matter what fight he's in, I mean, I didn't think he'd do what he did to Michael Chandler, right? He took him down, which maybe not be, be the best example but but you know Charles is just that guy he will surprise you and he is such a fucking warrior man I mean this guy just comes out and then puts on great fights and I might be a little biased because I think Charles is probably like my favorite like overall legendary fighter you know

and my favorite to watch I love his fight style I love the way he moves and the way he carries himself and the way he fights so might be a little bias there But I totally see where you're coming from. I can see Max just going in and throwing 200 punches per round and piecing Charles up for 25 minutes or even, you know, stopping him somewhere in between. But I'm only a little bit more 50-50 just because Charles is that guy. He just comes and he surprises you.

You know, he'll roll for a knee bar or, you know, you know, he might take Max down, right? He might get a takedown. He might snatches a guillotine, jumping guillotine or something. You know what I mean? You never know. Yeah. Yeah, some clenches, some elbows. I mean, he's way more diverse than Max.

I'll give him that. You know, like, you generally pick the guy who's has more paths to victory. Charles certainly has more paths to victory here. So that's why I'm a little more 50-50, but I'm still going to lean towards Max because, I think Max is a lot younger too, isn't he? even though... Yeah, he's early 30s. I think Charles is like three years older,

four years old or something like that. So they're not that far apart. But yeah, I think... I think, like, when Max, I just think about, like, I think of what Charles, like when he fought really good, powerful strikers like Justin and Dustin, he got hit. Like, he did get hit.

Both of those fights, he got hit and got hurt. But, like, technically, like, I think Dustin's a very good boxer, but Dustin doesn't really kick much. And Dustin, like, you know, and, you know, we've seen him shows vulnerabilities on the ground. I think Max has a cleaner boxing style and he uses his distance really, really well.

Like he's not a guy who gets in clothes like Justin. Justin gets in clothes and like just brains you. I mean, I think you hit a spot on where the issue with Charles is his hitableness. Yeah. He's very hitable. And Max is a sniper with volume. Yeah. And I think like Max at 55 has more power.

I mean, he put Dustin down like four times in that fight. He didn't finish him. Dustin, you know, Dustin hung around and came back on him, but he put Dustin down several times. And I think Dustin has one of those, like, all-time good chins. Like, he's always shown a good chin. He can take damage the same as Justin. Charles, he's had moments. Like, when he got clocked by now, granted, anyone gets clocked by Elliott to poor, you're probably going to go out.

But, like, he'll take a shot. And I think he's taking better shots now, but I just think over time. And I feel like if Charles can catch him early, get a takedown, get his best. get a guillotine, get some kind of submission rounds one or two, he's got a better chance. He gets into rounds three, four, and five. Max is just like, he's a machine man. He's going to keep damaging you and damaging you,

and it's just going to change. Like, my prediction would be like Max Holloway, like fourth round TKO. Like he's just going to keep putting it on him, putting it on him on him, and it's just going to, he's going to eventually overwhelm. He's going to catch him with something and put him down. And I think that's Hollow wins.

I'll put it this way. If I were a betting man, I would go with you and bet on Max Holloway. Every now and then I'm a little bit of a betting man, but not too much. But just as analyzing it and thinking about it, picking my head, I'd only be about, you know, 55% towards Max. Yeah. If Max.

52, 48, something like that, like just a slight lean towards Max. I mean, it's a great fight. That's why I said. I wouldn't need to be in the title bullshit. Like, this is a great fight. It's a hell of a fight. And to your, like, we're talking about the point of view. Like, this is a fight I'm legit excited about.

Like, I'm very excited about this fight because Max always shows up. Charles always shows up. like whoever wins, even Charles wins, it's going to be a great fight. Now, here's my question. We talked earlier about the whole Arm and Saruki again. Max goes out there and knocks out Charles Loevere. I don't know how he does it. He does a point-down thing and he fucking clocks him knocking him out, whatever it is.

Do you see a world where they just put Max right back in that title fight again, like against the winner of Justin and Ilya. I know we've seen him fight Ilya before, not a lightweight. I think there's a real world where if Max goes out there and picks up a highlight real win, he's once again the number one contender. Yeah, why not? It's Max Holloway. He always deserves a title shot, I think.

Yeah. I mean, I don't see no reason why not. I mean, there's not, you know, any other, again, other than Armand, there's not really a clear guy that's there. So I think it's very legitimate. And I would never, ever, probably ever in my life when Max is 80 years old. I'm like, yeah, give him a title shot, bro. Yeah. And Max is like, I know he's at Charles one of yours.

Like, that's kind of max for me. Like when Max fights, he always makes it fun. It's always an interesting fight. You know, like, I don't know that I've ever watched Max Holloway in a boring fight. Like, the dude just knows how to put on entertaining fights. I don't think he gets the same level of credit as, like, Gachi and Porier, because Max doesn't take the damage that those two guys do. Like, those guys are willing to walk on broken glass to put on a fight.

Max is like, I don't really want to have brain damage. Like, I don't really want to have brain damage. He's also not swinging for the fences the whole time, right? Like, he's a, you know, he's a sniper with high-bring. volume but you know like people love just engage you because like he swings and misses and he falls over and they're like dude if i would have landed you know where max is like you know he's just picking you apart right and and and just touching you up a lot and it makes it exciting and makes it for a lot of wars but you know it's not you know the the mainstream person isn't going to be

as excited about that yeah and this is going to sound like a weird comparison but it's actually a compliment like he's like a better Diaz brother Like he'll just chip away you, chip away. He's a better deal. He'll just chip away and then he'll hurt you eventually and he'll put you away. That's the one thing. Like, Diaz's never really kind of had that stopping power. Like, they would fuck you up and put a thousand punches on you in five rounds.

But like they'd never really had that knockout power. I think Max does. We've seen it. You know, I think he's even more powerful, lightweight. He's like a better Diaz, brother. Yeah, like the Diaz's are like mosquitoes flying around your head and you're just constantly trying to wave them off. and Max is more like a bee flying around their head

and you're trying to wave them off because when the mosquito stings are, you're like, all right, that sucked. But when Max does, I mean, you know, maybe more like a wasp, right, whereas you're just like, fuck, bro. Like, why'd you do that? Yeah, yeah, I just love watching a fight, like I said.

And, you know, it's funny, like, all the BMF talk on that stupid bullshit. Like, this is just such a fun, finally. They don't have to say a word going into this fight. I know it's going to be fun. They're like Charles and Max always put on an entertaining fight, you know it's going to be a good fight, so I'm just excited for the fight. So I think it's going to be a good one.

The undercard, you know, right near Derriter, Cayao Bahaya is not a bad fight. That's a good fight, man. Come on. It is. No, it is. It is a good fight. I just like, whenever two guys are coming off losses, I'm always like, how are we going to, are they going to fight cautiously because they don't want to lose a second fight in a row.

And it's gravel versus grabber, which means a lot of times ends up turning into, like, a sloppy striking battle. So, like, we'll see. I mean, it could, you know, could be good. I know, I know Cody Garbrand's on the undercard. What else we got in this card? got Rob Fon, Raoul Rosas, that's not a bad. Actually, the fight outside of the main event, the one I'm most excited about is Drew Dober and Michael Johnson.

Like, that is just violence personified. Yeah, that could be a violent fight for sure. Speed versus power, thunder, lightning. It's going to be fun. Drew's another one. Like, he just does not put on boring fights. So Michael Johnson has won, like, 90% of his fights and he loses. Like, he gets knocked out, but he wins right up to the moment he loses.

He's like what the most skilled guys in the UFC, maybe ever, like one of the fastest and he just gets hit and that's it yeah but i mean i know it's going back several years but i always remember what he did to dust him and when he fought dust of poor he just absolutely picked him apart and knocked him out cold like he's got all those skills and it's just something just isn't clicking i mean this is the type of guy you would pick to be champion if we hadn't seen any of his previous fight or only seen like his last three wins or something right you'd be like, oh, this guy's going to be champion for sure. But, yeah, something isn't clicking.

People forget that fight he had with Gagasy. And Gagishi's debut, man, that was a fucking war. And he was very close to winning that fight several times. So, you know, he was picking apart Josh Jim and then out of nowhere. Josh clocks him with that right hand and knocks him out cold. But that's just kind of like Michael Johnson's lot in life. Like, the dude wins every fight until he loses. Like, that's kind of his thing.

And Dober's more than capable of doing that to him. Yeah. Yeah. And Dober is durable, too. Durable and tough. And it seems to be Michael Johnson's fucking Kryptonite, right? Is the Drew Dober type. Let's see if he gets through it this time.

Yeah, that'd be a good fight. So there's a couple of these events. Cody Garbrand's on the undercar. So, you know, not bad. But like I said, I mean, we always talk about the main event. It's the main event fight. This is the main event car. It's Max Holloway, Charles Olvera.

And who's Garbrand fighting, by the way. He's fighting a Chinese fighter, Zhao Long, I think, is his name. So I don't really know him. so yeah I think that's kind of where Cody's at in his career right now kind of fighting you know I don't think he's I don't think he's gonna be vying for a bant-to-way title shot anytime soon but

yeah that sucks you know going from beating one of the greatest oh excuse me like schooling one of the greatest ever in Dominic Cruz to fighting on the prelims now that's the nature to be sometimes man it sucks when it happens that how yeah the train keeps rolling whether you're on it or not

so But not, you know, it's a pretty good end. Like I said, hey, here's the benefit of the Paramount card. You're not paying $90 to watch this. You're just watching it on Paramount, and it works. So, you know, like I said. True that. True that.

Yeah, like, it may not be the greatest card, but guess what? I'm paying $15, $12 a month or whatever I pay for Paramount. I'm already paying it. So, sure, let's go. Let's go. Yeah. Obviously, we'll be back next week. We'll talk about the fallout from Max and Charles.

And hopefully we'll have the White House card announced. And we can talk about that and kind of react to the official fights. once they get announced. I hope that comes this week. And as always, Matt, where can people check you out? They want to support you and see what you got going on outside of the podcast.

The Immortal Matt Brown, Instagram and Facebook, and then I got my own podcast now. You've got the Immortal 513 on YouTube. And I think that's all we got today. All right. Well, we appreciate everyone tuning in, as always.

Obviously, make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts. Spotify. And, of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider.

Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.