MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Charles Oliveira Being Stripped of His Title Then Winning at UFC 274, Defends Rose Namajunas and Carla Esparza

Episode Date: May 10, 2022

On episode 35 of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown joins the show to react to the biggest moments at UFC 274 including Charles Oliveira being stripped of his title but then submitting Justin Gaethje in the main event. Brown will reveal his own story about the one time he missed weight in his career and how Oliveira deserved better than what happened when he lost his title before ultimately beating Gaethje just 24 hours later. Brown will also discuss Michael Chandler’s jaw-dropping Knockout of the Year candidate with his finish over Tony Ferguson while defending both Carla Esparza and Rose Namajunas for what is widely being called one of the worst title fights in UFC history. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer.    Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You know him probably far better than you know me. He's the legend of the sport. And of course, Matt, today we are going to be talking about all things UFC 274. But let me first ask, how are you? How are things in your corner of the world living five minutes away from me? Very good, man. Very good. Just enjoying the beautiful weather, man.

Finally. Finally, right? Yeah. Ohio. I actually went out driving yesterday just because I wanted to enjoy the weather. I was like, that's how sad you know you live in Ohio is you just want to drive and actually enjoy it like the nice weather. Yeah. I need to get a motorcycle, bro. Oh, dude, don't get me started. I've, I've contemplated stealing a Harley many, many times and going. And when you say motorcycle, come on, it's got to be a Harley. Come on. I'm not going to go. I like fast bikes, too. I got a Harley and I love it. But damn, man.

I get sick and not going fast. Yeah, you get you one of those crotch rockets would be flying around the streets. I used to have one. I've had a few of them. Yeah, yeah. Weirdly, those things scare me far more than a Harley does.

Like driving around one of those things are so little and like it just feels like that's just a disaster waiting to happen. But what everybody forgets is you can also control it a lot better. So you can stop faster, you can accelerate faster. So there's kind of a pros and cons to both. you're also more likely to go 150 miles an hour. There's definitely like pros and cons, but it's not all bad just because you're on a small bike.

You know, it doesn't make as much noise, but I think that's the biggest problem with it. But you can break way faster. You can steer away from things way faster. You know what I'm saying? You can accelerate, like if someone's coming behind you too fast,

like there's definitely some pros to it. Yeah, I feel like, the world would be a weirder place seeing Matt Brown roll around on a crotch rocket. Like I've seen you on the Harley. Like I'm like, Matt Brown's a Harley man. Like I'm just trying to picture you on like one of the like little Honda like crotch rocket. It's just a weird sight to me.

I don't know why, but it's just like a weird like a weird thought. Like I'm seeing you on your Harley. I'm like trying to picture you on a crotch rocket. It just seems weird. That's funny. I used to have a Honda crotch rocket. I was my first one.

And then my last one, I had a Hyabusa. It was a drag bike, though, so had nitrous and stuff. I mean, that thing was stupid fast. Jeez, man. That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah.

I actually had to get rid of it because it was, like, too fast. I was like, this thing is legitimately dangerous. Dude, I see people whipping around on the highway in those things. It scares the crap out of me because, like, I'm always, I'm a big motorcycle guy. I'm always very conscious of motorcycle riders on the highway. But I see some dudes whipping around those things, and I'm just like, oh, my God. I'm just like inviting disaster. Oh, just scared of crap on me.

Yeah, some people are stupid with it, man. You got to, I say, with the crout truck, you know, you have to be disciplined with it. Yeah. Well, you have to do with any bike, to be honest, even Harley, whatever you're riding. You got to be disciplined, man. That's the key.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, speaking of discipline, speaking of going too fast, we got a lot of fights to talk about, and we're going to probably focus in on, you know, the main three fights from UFC 274, the one that every, the fights that everyone are buzzing about right now.

But of course, the main event, Charles Olivaura, another finish, another incredible performance. Chokes out Justin Gachey in the first round. Crazy back and forth to fight before that. But chokes out Justin Gagey in the first round. Third straight finish as a champion, chokes out or finishes Michael Chandler with a knockout, chokes out Dustin Porey, chokes out Justin Gage. But before we get to the victory, we got to talk about the controversy, which is Charles Oliver missing weight by half a pound, stripped of the title.

Now he's technically the number one contender rather than the champion. I put a post up on Saturday night, both on Twitter and Instagram, Matt, and I said he doesn't have the title, but Charles Oliver is the champion. You know that, like you, okay, the big reason why I like having you on shows like this, Matt, is because you've been there. Now, you've not been a guy who's ever, you know, dealt with two. you know, terrible. You've had a missed weight just to put it out there.

You have had that happen to you before in your career. But it's not something you've really done regularly. It's not something you're like a serial abuser of missing weight. Yeah. But I don't know. You tell me because I'm not sitting there. I'm not like, I wasn't watching the scale. I wasn't like intently like, you know, diagnosing what went wrong or examining like how the whole thing happened.

But like to me and I understand it is your responsibility as an athlete to make weight. We all know that. We've all said it a million times. But to me, that situation, a half a pound, which, come on, I've seen a million commissions roll that, you know, roll that scale and quickly just sell 155. You know what I mean. I don't know. You tell me, you've been there. You know what it's like.

Am I wrong in thinking to like, come on. Like, they should have just, I'm not saying you should get away with anything. I'm not, if he's five pounds over, even two pounds over, it's a different. It was a half a pound. Yeah, that's a good point. I never even thought about it. Because, yeah, those balance scales, I mean, you got to be, you know, I don't think they use it. Normally they don't, they're not that particular about it.

You know, they kind of, the thing moves a little bit. They're like, good. You know, you're on off that thing quick as you can. And by the way, I miss weight one time in my life. And there's actually kind of a funny story behind that. Tell it. I'll tell you real quick. This is when I was by Robbie Lawyer.

And I didn't have time to cut the weight. That was back when they were at 4.30 was the weigh-ins. And I just had to get on the bus. And I called Bert. And I said, man, I need like 20 more minutes. I got a half a pound to go. I just need like a few more minutes. He's like, no, you got to get on the bus right now.

He's like, you'll have an hour after the waitings. He said, okay, no problem. So go in, get weighed in, a half pound over. when I'm sitting in the back and this guy comes up and posing as one of the doctors there, right? And he said, yeah, I've seen you out there.

He said, I've seen you cutting weight or something. I forget. And said, you can't cut no more weight. You need to rehydrate. And I was like, well, okay, I guess if I have to, you know, if you're the doctor telling me, right? He's like, I'm not going to let you cut no more weight. So I started drinking water.

Dana comes over like five minutes later and he goes, hey, did somebody just tell you not to cut weight? I said, yeah, some doctor. He goes, that dude's not a doctor. He's like, we don't know who that guy is. I guess he had told somebody else that missed weight also. So anyway, so we get into the, we meet with Dana in the back and I said, I said, you know, I can still go cut the weight, but, you know,

I just put on an extra like two or three pounds with his water. And he said, don't worry about it. We're not taking it 20%. Robbie was there. He was cool with it. and that was that. That's wild. Did they ever figure out who that dude was?

I have no idea. That was the last I heard of it. But I guess he told me and at least one other person, a girl, I forget who it was. I'd have to see who was on the card. But that's pretty crazy, right? That's wild. That is so wild. That is so crazy.

Yeah, like that. And that's what I said. It's like the only time you ever had that happen. That's insane. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I would have made the weight. I just simply ran out of time.

I would have went out and cut another half a pound. It might have been a pound, I don't remember. But I would have, you know, I'm a professional, bro. I'm going to make the weight, guaranteed. I've never missed weight any other time in my life. So, yeah, there's no question about it. I would have made the weight. But with Charles Olivera, you have probably known better than me.

What's the story with the official scale versus the fighter scale thing? So the story is that apparently, you know, so for people, that don't know, and Matt, you know this, but I'll just tell the story. When you're in the fighter hotel or the fighter workout area, there is an official scale in that room, and there's a giant sign. I think Bert Watson was the one who made it originally that said, these scales are calibrated, blah, blah, blah, don't F with it. You know, it literally says that.

There's a sign that says that. And I mentioned that on Friday or Saturday. And they're like, oh, yeah, that's right. That's true. That actually is. Like, there's a big sign over the, over the thing that says, do not mess with this, has been calibrated to match the commission scale. So apparently the rumor is, what Dana said, what Dana White said at the presser is that

there were people messing with it because they were trying to figure out the people who weigh in with kilograms versus pounds, like whoever's coming in from Brazil or other countries where they're used to kilograms and not pounds, someone messed with it. And that was what it was. And I talked to several people, and I know my colleague, Guillermo Cruz, spoke to several people who said that the weigh-in scale at the hotel or wherever you go back, the backstage scale was different than the one out on stage by a pound or two. And I heard this, and this was not just Brazilians.

I heard it from several other fighters on the car who said that they weighed one thing in the back and then they weighed different out front, which is not supposed to be the case. So that's also a problem. And again, I'm not, I don't want to put all the, you know, all the blame on the commission in Arizona. But Matt, you and I know Arizona is not an area that has a ton of big fights. you know what I mean? Like are they used to doing this? Because I'm not saying that Andy Foster, who's incredible in California or Nevada or, you know, other commissions where they have fights all the time.

I'm not saying they would let it slide. So I'm not making that, you know, I'm not making that accusation. They would just let this slide. But I wonder if, like, being a stickler about, like, that little scale balancing, you know, because, come on. How many wayans have you seen where a guy steps on the scale and they look at it for two seconds, like, he's 150. You know what I mean? Like, they're not sitting there like, hold on. hold on he might be 0.3 over you know so it's like 0.5 really and I don't know yeah so it just seems

really I want to say suspect but it just seems like a little overboard yeah it's a little suspect because it's pretty common that we're at least me I'll come in you know 171.1.171.2 and I'm like dude it's a balance scale where it's going to be fine it's I think that's very common at least for me. And, you know, because I always calibrate my personal scale, which is digital, to the fighter scale at the hotel, right? You get on and off, you know, switch from one to the other. You have your friends switch to one to the other, your corner guys.

And you do it multiple times throughout the week. You're checking it against it all the time. So, you know, you know that your scale is exactly where you want it to be. and you know exactly, you know, how far off it is. I mean, I don't know how many times I'll be in 171.1. And made it on a balanced scale. Yeah. So, you know, and that's, you know, so now, you know, that's 0.4 pounds, you know,

difference. So it's, I don't know. That's a strange thing, man. That's a very strange thing. And I don't, it's hard to comment on it, right? Because I don't know what the, what the deal is there. but it sucks that Charles Oliver was stripped for all that, right? He was stripped of his title.

I assume he loses some money off of that. I assume his contract is, you know, something is probably going to change with that financially for him. Yeah, and the worst part is, I think the worst part to me is that watching him go out there and then go out and submit Justin Gachey, and Justin Gachey put on the Justin Gachey performance. Knocked him down twice, was throwing the leg cakes, looking good.

Oliver comes back, blast him with a shot, straight punch down the middle, knocks him down, jumps on top of him, chokes him out. Fight lasts at three minutes and I think 22 seconds. It was an incredible three minutes and 22 seconds. A classic Gaiji performance. But I mean, here's the problem. And I understand that, listen, there are rules

and rules are here for a reason. I get all that. But the UFC is a promotion. They own their belts. It's not like the Arizona Commission is going to, you know, uh, you know, stop promoting UFC events because they suddenly do something against their rules. At this point, I guess the problem is we all know Charles Oliver is the best

lightweight in the world. There's no question about that. No one today is questioning that. Well, he missed by half a pound. He can't be the best lightweight in the world. That's garbage. We all know better. He is the best lightweight fighter on planet Earth.

Without a doubt, there's no question. But yet somehow he's not going to have a title. He's now considered a quote unquote number one contender. And we don't know for sure. I know Dana said after the fight, they're going to give him his pay-per-view points for this fight, but will he get all those kind of considerations for the next one? Because that's a lot of money.

He's leaving on the table. He is the best guy in the world. It's garbage to me that he's just, he's the best guy in the world, but we can't call him champion. That's ridiculous. Yet he doesn't get another belt to hang on his wall. Yeah, that's, I agree, man.

God, I mean, to do that against Gagey, Yeah, you're definitely the best lightweight in the freaking world to do it against Chandler in his last fight. I mean, Jesus Christ, this guy is savage, man. I want to see him fight Kabib. I wish it could happen. I know it's probably not. I know it's hypothetical, but damn, now that is a fight we want to see because Charles Oliver goes to the ground. Welcome to the ground, right?

I mean, how many times did gauge you knock him down and Oliver is on his back saying, come on down? you know like he's not he's he'll pull guard you know like he's that guy um he won't shy away from the grappling and um boy to watch him and kabbi grapple i think would just be a sight to see man i'd love to see it yeah well we might see the other one which is islam makachab may get the next title shot and i listen i i talked to um so michael chandler before the fight we were talking because for the longest time he wanted to fight kabbi because of course michael chandler has an incredible wrestling background, and he's always been like,

I wanted to see how Khabib would do against the guy like me who has that, you know, all-American wrestling, which, again, it would be an intriguing matchup. It never happened. And I said, you know, what about Islam? And he's like, I have to admit, I wouldn't get as excited to fight Islam because he's not Khabi.

He doesn't have that mystique, that aura about him the way Kib did. Not yet. I like Islam. I think Islam's an incredible fire. The difference with Islam, and I know people get mad at me saying this, and I'm just going to be honest,

is the Islam doesn't have the traffic. record. When you look at his record, he hasn't gone through a list of killers yet. I mean, his biggest win, you could argue, is over Armin Surukian, and that was in Armin's first fight. And I'm only saying that because Armin has now gone on to become like a real force. But at the time, Arman was debuting on short notice in St. Petersburg, Russia. Like, come on, no one was picking that guy to do anything. The fact that it ended up being a fight of the night is a credit to a kid that we just didn't know at the time. But then, you know, I mean, beating Dan Hooker. I like Dan Hooker, but Dan Hooker's lost like eight fights in a row now.

Like I'm just saying like I want to see, that's why I wanted to see the Daryush fight. I wanted to see Daryush against Malkachev. Then you know. And I'm a believer. I'm an Islam believer. I 100% believe he could be the guy. He could be the guy to be Oliver.

He could be the guy to beat everybody. But I just want to see him get there naturally through progression, which is beating another top rank guy. Either way, though, that's, that's the closest he's going to. to get to Khabib at this point is is Mokachev and as much as I like Mokachev I don't know I got I just

I picked I picked him to lose to Porreye I picked him to lose to Chandler and I picked him to lose to Gachey I can't keep picking against Charles Oliver because my God this guy just can prove me wrong well I think we a lot of people had the same thing I think it was

Chandler that was talking about saying he's a quitter like he's showing that he'll quit and he has proved everybody wrong in that aspect, right? Over the past few fights, he is proven. He is not a quitter. Whatever happened early in his career happened and he's over that,

whether it was mental, physical, emotional, whatever it was. He's over that shit. He's a new Charles Oliver and this guy is the champion and he's got the target on his back now and this is the guy just puts on amazing fights too, right? I mean, just

watching and fight is just exciting to watch and he's just proven everybody wrong, man. I mean, he's just an exciting guy. And I love his style personally. I mean, I put this on Twitter over the weekend. 11 fight win streak. 10 finishes. One guy, Tony Ferguson got him to a decision,

and that's only because Tony was willing to sacrifice his body in like two different submissions where it looked like Olivera was going to take a limb home with him. Did he survive? 10 finishes. and 11 fights and he's good I mean he's fighting good guys like he went out there and just

he walked through Jim Miller Jim Miller is a legend he walked through that fight he finishes Porreye finishes Gauchy finishes Chandler I mean good Lord I mean the resume this guy's

putting it together listen I know we all we're all guilty at least I'm guilty in the media we all love talking about oh suddenly he's the goat he's the greatest listen if Charles Olivera

can go out there and beat I'll say Mokachev or Daryush. They're the two top guys of division. If he goes out there and beats one or both of those guys, listen, you will not find a bigger Khabib Namauga-Met-Met-Of fan on planet Earth. I am that guy. I have been banging the Kibb drum for years.

I love the dude, personally and professionally. Incredible guy. He is the greatest right now. But are you going to tell me that if Charles goes out there and beats Mokachev and beats Dariush, he's at least not in that conversation. I know he's not undefeated.

He'll never be undefeated. We all know that. But the run he's on right now, the competition, he's just, I mean, he's beating them. He's finishing them.

You're going to tell me he doesn't at least enter that conversation. So you have Khabib is the greatest? Lightweight. Greatest lightweight. Okay, okay. You're not just lightweight.

No, no, great. Great. Not greatest in all the time ever. I'm saying in the lightweight division, Kabib is number one. No, no.

Yeah, okay. So, yeah, I'm right there with you. on that man. He might have already surpassed him. He's at least in the conversation right now, right?

Yeah. I mean, you got to, you got to, you know, there's a debate there at this point. But I don't know if Islam is the guy to get him into that conversation. Maybe. I don't know. I mean, like you said, he doesn't have the track record yet. Yeah. He's done all the right things so far to get to where he's at. But we got

to see where he goes from here. Yeah, I still, I still, and I know it sucks with timing and everything because Olivera, you know, fought now in May and, you know, he may be out until like towards the latter part of the year because champions typically only fight, you know, once or twice a year. And everyone's saying October and Abu Dhabi with, with Mokachev, which me personally, I don't think he should do it. I mean, I don't, he just fought Gachie in his, essentially his hometown.

Why would he travel to Abu Dhab to fight and give Mokachov that advantage of being in his, like, an area where he's an extremely popular fighter? I mean, I'm not saying they have to go to Brazil, but like do it in Vegas, do it in California, do it somewhere else. But I really want to see Makachev and Daryush. And to me, because that way it would do, because Daryush is on a seven-fight win streak. He's got four finishes. You know, he has the dominant win over Tony Ferguson, which to me is a better win than anything that Islam has on his record currently. And that's not a knock on Islam.

I'm just speaking facts. Yeah, I'm back there with you on that. I think Daryush and Mokachev, hopefully they can fight. you know, if they could fight August, September, and then the winner gets Charles, you know, like that. Again, I don't have a problem if they book Islam and Oliver, I get the attraction to that, but me personally, I just want, I want Islam to get one more good win. Darius should be that one good win and then move into the title fight. And I know it's unfortunate that Daryush got injured and he couldn't fight in February,

whenever it was, March, whatever it was. I get all that. I understand. That's not Islam's fault. but I'd still like my lasting impression going into an Olavera fight not to be Islam versus Bobby Green. I mean, that's just, I just don't, like, that would be the last impression that Islam made to get Charles.

And I just, I feel like you got to do more than that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you got to do more than that. I feel you on, man, with Bobby Green on short notice, too. Yeah, Bobby Green on literally a week's notice. Yeah, yeah, very short notice. So, yeah, I'm right there with you. I agree on everything. And there's some great matchups coming, man.

It's exciting division, that's for sure. But, you know, I got Charles now, what, maybe he's got to be top three pound for pound now, right? Oh, yeah. I mean. When you got him, right? I mean, he's got to be who's number one, probably still John Jones, maybe. Well, I take John Jones out right now because he hasn't fought in two years. So I put, and that's just based on that.

So I put Usman number one, uh, Adasanya, two and probably Olavera three would be my top three right now probably in that right in that range you know yeah and I got Adasanya and Usman kind of back and forth for number one so yeah I think I think it comes down you know it's it's it's dominance and it's and it's wins but it's also level of competition I think welterweight and lightweight in my opinion and people can disagree with me I think welterweight and lightweight have the two toughest divisions you know what I mean I I love featherweight I think bantamweight's incredible

right now. But I think in terms of longevity, what we've seen throughout the history of the sport, welterweight's always been deep and really, I mean, that's how George St. Pierre got to be who he is is because he had to go through killers.

And lightweight has always been that way. So what Usman has done, I can't take that away from him. When you look at the guys he's beaten, the streak he's on, never been beating in the UFC, he's there. Adisanya, yes, he has the one lost to yon,

but that was upper weight class, but he's been dominant, completely dominant middleweight and he's undefeated at middleweight in the UFC and Charles is right there in my opinion and I listen I wouldn't have an argument if you put Charles number two I still I'd have a hard time jumping him over Usman because Usman's done nothing wrong to make you believe and listen say what you will about Colby Covington being you know insane or whatever else you want to say about the guy he's a really really good fighter and Usman's beaten him twice so you know

yeah and the pound for pounds always a tough debate tough you know it's kind of it's all hypothetical so it kind of goes all over the place anyway but it's a discussion it's not real i mean let's be honest it's not real it's just it's fun to talk about exactly and so yeah i got charles right up there man i can't wait to see what's next for him i'm right there with you i think uh Islam and dare you should fight and whoever comes out of that on top is absolutely deserving of the title at that point yeah I agree. Speaking of the lightweight division,

we also had one of the craziest knockouts in UFC history on Saturday night, and that was Michael Chandler with a front kick to Tony Ferguson, absolutely shut his lights off. And there's been like alternative angles have been making it online, which, I mean, oh, it's... Hack the holidays with the PC Holiday Insiders Report. Try this PC Porchetta, crackling, craveworthy. You're going to eat that?

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I mean, you've knocked out. I mean, I'm not going to say to make you rank your knockouts, Matt, because you got a lot of them, obviously, some of the most in UFC history. I think a lot of people always remember the Diego one, you know, when you clubbed him and he went face first. That was such a rough knockout. You've had those kind of knockouts. Where would you put Chandler's, though?

Because that is, that was one of the most ridiculous. Like that wasn't even like when Anderson front kicked Vitor or when Leoto front kicked Randy Coutor, they were both brutal for sure. But the way they fell, they were still like, I'm not going to say conscious, but they were not like completely out. Ferguson was, I mean, out, out, out, out. You know what I mean? Like, good Lord. Yeah, I guess it kind of comes down to what do you value more, how much damage it did or did it just stopped? the fight, right? Like, you know, you ended the fight one way or another. So, and personally, I still go with Anderson Silva because he was the first to do it. And he just shocked the hell out of everybody. That was V-Tor-Belfort. That was scary as hell back in that day.

You know, that was a, they had a pass, he had history, you know, and that was just Anderson on his tear back then was just a sight to see, man. Well, I'm glad we got to live through and glad that I followed the sport back then. And, you know, I met Anderson. and I mean, just maybe there's a little bit of sentimentalness there with that, but I still got that one, man, if you want to talk about front kick to the jaw knockouts, you know, the only three that I know of that I've ever seen in this sport. I've never seen that on the lower level shows either.

So I still got Anderson's as number one. But I think the shocking thing, too, is just that, you know, like we're talking about before, man, Ferguson looks so good. He was doing well, and then Chandler found a way. He just found an opening, found a gap, found a hole, found, you know, just, you got to give a lot of credit to him, man. You know, he's a tough guy, but he just found a way. Yeah. And I love that.

Weirdly, and I said this before we started recording, I'll say it again now, in a weird way, because a lot of people were wondering what, you know, what does Tony Ferguson have left? You know, he's lost three in a row. he lost the Gajee, lost the Daryuz, lost to Olivera, you know, lost the decision two of them, and then, of course, he had the kind of wild crazy fight where he eventually got finished by Gagchi, but even that, he didn't get, like, knocked out. He got, you know, just overwhelmed and they just waved it off,

which I had no problem with that stoppage. He was definitely, you know, he was taking a lot of damage at that point. I had questions. I was like, you know what, Tony lost the three of the best guys in the world. There's no shame in that, but his last two weren't close. Yeah, he got dominated by old. and he got dominated by Dary Euse. Neither one of those fights were competitive

in the least. We're talking like 30, 26. You know what I mean? Was not? So I had my question. It's like, is Tony still able to go with the best guys in the world? I didn't think Tony was done. I wasn't sitting there being, you know, lunatic and saying the guy was done. I was saying, I don't know that Tony will ever be a top five guy again. Weirdly, and people are going to probably think

I'm insane, weirdly, I have more faith in Tony Ferguson coming out of this fight than I did out of the Daryush fight. Because the Daryush fight, because the Daryush fight, he was never in. Darius just dominated him from start to finish. He was never in that fight, never did anything to make me believe that he was going to win that fight. Nothing.

This fight, he actually won the first round, looked good doing it. I mean, he had Chandler hurt a couple times, had him wobbled, had Chandler, you know, Chandler going for takedowns. Chandler never goes for takedowns. He had Chandler going for wrestling, you know. And then he got caught. And that happens. You know what I mean?

got caught with a perfectly placed front kick right up the middle on the jaw would have knocked out probably anybody and we know that tony ferguson has an incredible chin we've seen that a million times over the course his career i weirdly have more faith about tony ferguson coming out of this one than i did going in which is sounds bizarre because he got knocked out but like he looked good early he really did yeah look like he made some of the improvements too that we've kind of been looking for him to make, right? A lot of a lot of people, the fans of him, they wanted to see just a lot more out of them. So, yeah, I'm right there with you. You know, I think that the future is still bright for him, man. I think he could come back and still be a top five guy. I don't, I don't doubt it for

one second. You know, that lightweight division, like we're just talking about, there's so many studs up there, you know, it's a, you got to be firing on all eight cylinders, man. Yeah. What about Chandler? Talk about a guy who's paid off on an investment because everyone was talking about how would he do coming over from Bellator? Of course, I think most people would consider him the greatest Bellator fighter champion maybe of all time.

And maybe Patricia Pitbull has passed him at this point. But, you know, when he left, he was kind of that guy. He was the guy who'd been there for eight years, nine years, whatever it was, multi-time champion. and he's kind of face a bellator. People are like, well, how is he going to do? Comes over and starches Dan Hooker, you know, at a time when Dan was on a good run, you know, coming off that Porier fight, five-round fight, battle with Porier, and he knocks him out inside two minutes,

goes out there almost beats Olivera. He was, you know, seconds away from winning that fight, and then he ends up getting caught and finished in the second. Again, that's a credit to Charles Olivera. Has a freaking fight of the year with Gaichi, three-round, just bloody, crazy battle. and it goes out and pulls off one of the greatest knockouts in history. I mean, talk about a return on investment.

I mean, come on. Like, all four fights are memorable. All four fights were fun, crazy finishes. I mean, come on. Like, Michael Chandler is that dude. Like, he is the guy at this point. He is now a true UFC fighter. And anyone who had questions about where he fits in or how he does or any of that kind of stuff has been answered.

Dude's a savage. He's going to put on fun fights every time. I don't know if he'll be champion. He came closer to beating Olivera than I think anybody else recently, even though I think, you know, Justin had two knockdowns, but I still don't feel like Gajy was closer to a finish than Chandler wasn't that first fight. I don't know, man. Chandler is just so much fun to watch.

Like, pay this guy, all the bonuses, and just keep matching him up with fun fights. Absolutely. And he's got one of the best promos, promo guys in the sport. He's one of the best promo guys. Like, he had me very fired up after that. after the fight and man watching that promo

I was like damn bro like I want to see this guy fight more now yeah and I don't I'm not the guy

to fall into that kind of hype when they talk after the interview after man doesn't really do much for me most of the time

but boy he he lit a fuse right there man um do we all agree that Chandler Connor is the fight to make I mean I think that's

I mean come on yeah fuck yeah who I wouldn't watch that. Yeah, dude. Yeah, and just the, Chandler's the perfect guy for the lead-up,

you know, with the way they talk and stuff. Yeah, just both their styles match up so well. Boy, yeah, that's the fight to make. If Connor comes back, I mean, is he coming back? You think? I mean, I think he is. I don't think he would allow himself to go out with that, being the last image we see him on the ground holding his leg,

you know what I mean. I don't think he ever a lie. Like, I don't know that he'll, I don't know that Connor will ever be Connor again, meaning like I don't know if he'll ever be a real contender because I don't like, listen, I'll, again, I, you know we've talked about Connor on this podcast and our past podcast. I've always been a Connor guy, but I don't know that Connor beats Oliver. I don't know that Connor, Connor. I think Makachev is the worst matchup. Darius probably right in the same boat if Darius fights him the way that Darius can fight.

Um, you know, Geishi, maybe Geish, because Geish does like to get involved in wars and Connor does have a, you know, a laser beam for a light left hand. Um, but yeah, like, I don't know that Connor will ever be a champion again, but come on, him and Chandler. But personally, I'd like to see, uh, Connor come back and fight Ferguson. I mean, you know, Connor's coming off a loss. Ferguson's coming off a loss. If, if Connor's all that, then it's, uh, you know, if he is all that, then it should be a very winnable fight for him. But Ferguson's not an easy matchup for anyone, right? Like, I don't care who you are or anybody in the world.

This is going to be a tough fight. And that's another one where the lead-up would be just a blast to watch. And, you know, anytime you talk about Connor, I think that has to be in the conversation, right? You need the right guy that's going to talk, like him against Darius, for instance, against Islam, it isn't quite as interesting. Like when Connor Potkeb, it was not as interesting. You know, Connor trying to stir up the pot and the guy's just not reacting, you know.

You know, he's just being real about everything. And said, but the right guys with like a Chandler or Ferguson, either one of those would be great matchups. And I love the lead up, man. I love watching especially Connor. He's more of the best ever to do it. I love when the right guy is across from them, you know, talking back and making it even more interesting, getting some emotional involvement in it. Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to Connor and Gagee either.

I know they don't like each other. Gagie hits Connor. I think that would be a really fun one. And Gagey's kind of in that, in that Porriere situation now where he's fought for the title twice, lost twice. Not to say he can't get back there again, but it's a longer road. You know what I mean? I'm not saying, you know, we've seen guys get, you know, I mean, Uriah Faber had title shots and all, you know, we've seen lots of guys get title shots multiple times.

But, you know, Porre is still one of the best guys in the world, but he's, you know, he lost to Kabib, he lost Oliva. It's going to take him a little while to get back there. Gachie, same kind of thing. Like, Gachie's lost to Kabeb, lost Oliver. I mean, we could see Gachie and Porier again. That was an incredible fight the first time around. But Gachie, Connor would be fun, too. Like, there's a rivalry there.

They don't like each other. You know, Connor was taking shots at Gachie after the fight. That's a fun one. but just selfishly, just because I'd like Michael Chandler to, like, get a renegotiation, get pay-per-view points, you know, get a huge payday to go in there and fight Connor, because, again, you know, the red panty night is a real thing. If you get the red panty night, you get the pay-per-view points, I'd like to see that for Chandler. Because, like, come on, four fights to the UFC, every fight's been memorable.

And you know that would be fun. You know that would be a fun fight. Like, that's kind of my thing. Like, if he's not going to get a title shot, um, you know, and he just fought Gaichi. I know they put on a fight of the year. They could run that back. And I don't mind Chandler and Porre.

They've talked about that as well. I'd be fine with that too. But come on. Chandler, Connor would just be fun. I agree. I agree, man. But there's just a lot of matchups out there for Connor, man. I want to see him.

Connor against anybody. You know what I mean? Connor against anybody's going to be fun. But again, it comes down to who's going to give the best lead-up to the fight too, Like all these matchups, again, like Gagey's probably not going to give as good of a lead-up, I don't think. But like Chandler, Ferguson, those guys are just going to make the whole, every press conference is going to be something new, something exciting. They're going to come back with a better comebacks, you know, and that's not going to engage you. I mean, he's a warrior and, you know, he speaks his mind, you know.

But when you're talking about Connor, like, that's a part, that's one of the aspects of, a Connor fight, right? Is the shit talk. Yeah, 100%. I mean, he makes it a show. I mean, that's kind of the Connor thing. He makes it a fight. He makes it a fight, but he makes it a show.

You know, he makes it a, you want to be there for the press conference. You want to be there for the way in. You want to be there for, you know, all that. And that's what Connor does. He makes it a show. Real quick, before we get out of here, Matt, you know, is the one thing we haven't talked about yet was the title fight, the other title fight on the car, which was Carlos Spars and becoming a two-time champion with a win.

over Rosemnobie Unis, and let's just say less than rewatchable fights. Five round decision, split decision. I actually scored it, you know, four rounds to one for Carla, but I was not confident in my scoring. I'm not going to sit here and try to break down the fight. It was an abysmal fight. No one's going to, I mean, Carla and Rosno was an abysmal fight. Anyone watching that fight knows it was an abysmal fight.

My question to you, Matt, is this, because you're not a guy who's been in boring fights. I mean, you've had a ton of fight of the knives perform. That's kind of, we know that. Like, it's kind of like Oliver or Porre or Gaitchew. When Matt Brown fights,

we're going to get a Matt Brown fight. We know what's going to. We know what we're getting going in. And that's kind of the reputation you built through your career of being that kind of guy that, like, always puts on a show. So you've not really been in this situation, but I don't know, like,

both fighters, in my opinion. I was kind of been in that situation. Once that I remember, well, twice actually, Damien Maia and Johnny Hendricks said both. I mean, they took me down and held me the whole time. I walked away from the fight without, you know, maybe a couple scratches or something and felt like I could have fought five, ten more rounds like that. So I've been in that situation. But like, listen, the blame to me goes on both fighters.

I mean, you're not blameless in this. But if I, but I will say for as little has happened in that fight. I do give credit to Carlos Barges. At least she tried a couple of times. She tried to go for the takedowns. It was clear she was going to depend on her wrestling as she should. She's an incredible wrestler. She doesn't want to stay out there in a kickboxing fight with Rose Nama Yunus.

And I'm not trying to like, you know, I'm not trying to say it's all Rose's fault. Because, again, there's two people in a fight. But Rose was just like a deer in the headlights. Like she did nothing. Like she barely threw strikes. She never really got aggressive. I don't know if it was because she was worried about the takedown so much. much and she got taken out of her game or maybe she was hoping that by standing there,

you know, maybe Carla would make a mistake. But man, I mean, again, I'm not putting all the blame on Rose because again, Carla was in there too. She could have done more. But man, it was just, it was hard to watch. Like, if you, if you're, like, sitting me down and saying, you know, I owe you money and, like a mob guy is going to come over and tie me to a chair and say, you got to pay me, like, they'll make me watch that fight to, like, force me to give them the money because,

like, I don't want to go through that again. Yeah. Well, hey, man, props to the car, though, she got it done, and that's what you're in there for. She's got the belt now, and you can't ask for her to do more than that, you know. We all love exciting fights. We all love to watch the blood and the gore. But ultimately, this is a competition, and the best person comes out. Well, most of the time, the best person comes out with the victory.

And, you know, I'm not, I'm like anybody. I mean, I don't like watching boring fights either. but I can I still respect it all the same man and I'm sure you do too you know we got to you know we show respect to those that earn it and I don't care if you go out there and brawl to earn it or if you have to wrestle to earn it you know you earn it one way or another for me let me ask just real quick though one thing I wanted to mention before we get out of here you know you had a bit of a you know obviously you had some feelings on the way your last fight was scored with Brian Barbarina and it was a close fight you know, no doubt about it, and credit to Barbarina doing his thing. But one bit of confusion that came out of that fight was afterwards, Rose saying, I don't get any points for defense. You know, I put on a good defensive fight. And I said, listen, you know, per the criteria, you don't get credit for defense.

Defense is not scored in MMA. It's all offense. Is there, like, you tell me, you're, you've been around and you talk to fighters, you, you're around fighters, you're a fighter. I mean, is there a misconception about the scoring, like what scores? because I think most people know it's only offense. You don't get scored for defense, but you tell me,

was that like, is that confusing or was that just maybe a bad perception on Rose's part? Yeah, I think it's kind of a bad perception on Rose's part because we all know the offense wins, fights, damage wins fights, and, you know, and it's our job to know the system too, right?

Now, I do think that they should score more for defense. and I think this is another story where open scoring would come in handy, right? And she should know, you know, maybe I was great defensively that round, but she should know I didn't get it anyway. So I got to switch something up this round. So, you know, I think it's another argument for open scoring. And it blows my mind that it's not already a thing. It drives me crazy that this isn't already a thing.

we should know what the score is. Judges should be held accountable for their scores. And I think it would only further the sport. And there's absolutely guys that will game the system. It will happen, right? But Carla gained the system last weekend, right? You know, there'll be people that try to stall in the last round because they know their head on the scorecards.

Like, that's going to happen. That's okay, though, you know, because you're also going to get guys that are going crazy, doing anything they can to win that last round or get a finish. So, you know, I think it goes, I don't think it would make the problem worse than it is now in terms of exciting fights. And ultimately, what it comes down to,

this is a the sport is exciting period but it it is an athletic competition it's a martial arts competition

it doesn't have to be exciting it's not like the sport is inherently exciting and that's what it should thrive on not exciting

for any other reason if that makes the kind of where I'm getting out with that yeah No, it does. It does. And I agree with you allheartedly on that.

I mean, yeah. I mean, people game the system now. I mean, if a fighter knows he's up two rounds, we've seen them, you know, just kind of cruise to that third round. I mean, it happens now. You know what I mean? Like, at least if you know you're down, 100% guaranteed, you know, you got to get a finish. I mean, you got to go out there and do whatever you're doing, or especially in a five-round

fight when it's that close. You know, you think about, we talked about it before the last paper you had Peter Yon and Al Jermaine Sterling. Maybe they would have approached it slightly differently knowing going into that fifth round, like the yon was down, you know, three rounds instead of just two, two. You know, maybe he would have reacted differently in that fifth round and really gun for the finish. Like, you don't know. And knowing whether it was a 10-8 round.

Like, we have no clue if it's going to be a 10-8 round because they score those all over the place. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it's like, but yeah, like I said, I mean, listen, not every fight's going to be a classic. It's just not going to be that way. We all understand that. Was it a bad fight? Yes. Was it a terrible fight?

I don't think anyone's going to be clamoring to rewatch that one. In the sense of whether it was in terms of excitement, it wasn't a good fight. But in terms of a good fight and a good performance by Carly, you got to give her credit, what credits do, right? I mean, she got the job done. Like, what else can you ask out of her? Yeah, I think also, I think part of it, and you know this as well as I do, the perception is Rose is an extremely well-liked person in the MMA community.

And I'm not saying Carla isn't. I'm saying Rose is kind of beloved and she you have a bit more grace when you're in that situation. You know what I mean? Like people aren't going to attack her as much because they all kind of love Rose. You know, she's kind of like everyone, you know, a lot of people's favorite fighter. And again, this is not a knock on Carla. I'm just saying like Carla's not in, she's not, she's not, she's not as popular as Rose.

Let's just be honest. You know what I mean? So Rose will get a little bit more grace, whereas Carla won't. You know what I mean? And I think that's, you know, we got to be in. And again, Carla did what she had to do. was it pretty? Was it, you know, was it the best performance ever?

Was it something she's going to go back and look and add to her highlight reel? Probably not. But does she have the title today? Yes. Did she win, in my opinion? Yes. So, you know, I mean, it is what it is. You can't ask for more, right?

Yeah, yeah. Again, it's an athletic competition, but the entertainment part is a side besides of it, right? Like, it's inherently entertaining. But for us going in there to compete, it is simply an athletic competition. I'm just going there just trying to beat the guy. Like, at least for me, I mean, I've never went in with the intention of having an exciting fight.

I'm going in there to beat the guy, period. My fights just happened to be exciting because of my style. And usually they try to match me up with someone that, you know, will kind of feed into that. But I think very few fighters are going in. thinking, dude, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, these guys used to try to clamor for five of the night. And I always thought that was foolish, right? I'm like, why are you trying to get five of the night?

That means it was back and forth. That means you got beat up and beat him. Like, I want knockout of the night, you know. That's why I, I've always said telling someone they have a great chin is like a backhanded compliment because when you have a great, that means you're getting hit a lot. Like when you're getting hit, great, you don't get knocked out. That's awesome. Like, no one wants that.

But like, when I say you've had a great. great chin, that's almost like a backhanded compliment because that means you've been getting hit, you know? Like, you don't want to get hit. You don't go in there with the purpose of getting punched. Yeah, it means you're not doing a job that great. Yeah. Real quick, Matt, before I let you go, it was so cool that on the matchmaking board,

we just announced your next fight. It's really cool that they made that a pub. Everyone's freaking out with all these fights and like half of them aren't happening. It's hilarious. Everyone's freaking out that they got to look at the EOC's matchmaking board. You're now fighting you're now fighting Hamzot on the moon.

Is that the rumor right here now, Matt? You're fighting Hamzot on the moon? Is that what's happening? It sounds like a fun trip, my bad. I don't know how late classes work there, though. That's true. That's true. But yeah, they had me up against Sato on July 4th, I believe, right?

July 2nd, yeah. At July 2nd, I mean, I just got a bunch of texts about it. I didn't know that that was reached or anything. I hadn't checked my phone in like two days, or at least social media for like two days. and I got all these texts saying, hey, you're fighting, you're fighting. I was like, oh, I am. All right, cool.

Unfortunately, I actually don't think I'll be able to make the July 2nd. So I don't think it's going to happen. I did talk to Sean about it. And they made me an offer, but I'm trying to make it work, trying to get back in there as soon as possible. But I got a lot of things going on right now. And it's not looking so hot, unfortunately. I think we've got to remember all.

Also, it's, it's, we're already in the middle of May. You know, we're basically in the middle of May now. That's essentially, you know, six weeks away from now is July 2nd. Less than that, actually, it's about five weeks away. You know what I mean? That's a, not to say that, you know, you haven't taken shorter notice fights and things like that, but we got to remember when you say July, it's not just July. It's July 2nd.

And we're now here in the middle of May, you know, that's literally five weeks away. Well, basically five weeks if you count fight week, you know what I mean? So that's a pretty quick time from now to fight. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I used to be able to do that all the time when I was younger, but, you know, I'm older now,

and I have a lot more responsibilities on my play and I have a lot more things in life that take me away. So when I'd get a camp now, I have to put everything to the side and just do camp. And that takes me a couple of weeks just to get that accomplished. So unfortunately, you know, it's just not, my life just isn't built around those short notices anymore. So that one's not going to happen, at least in July.

But I'm hoping around September, maybe October, November at the latest, I'm able to jump back in there. That's what I'm hoping for. Yeah, you got kids, you got businesses, you got a gym to run. Like, I think, again, we always talk about things we don't see that happen, you know? Like, we don't, you know, like, when fighters, like, when you have a kid being born, you know what I mean? like that's a big deal you know what I mean like that's something that takes you completely out of

you know your training schedule and life you know and rightly so but we don't really think about that when we think about the fight you know we don't think about oh you spent a week in a hospital with your you know with the baby being born we don't think about like that affects your fight camp you know what I mean or yeah I forget that we're humans too yeah we have a lot of outside pressures just like anyone else yeah absolutely absolutely well I'm sure we'll talk plenty before then. I think, is it, I don't know, it's not official,

I'm not going to make an official announcement, I'll hear it, but I think we're going to try, this is the second one in the row. I think we're going to try to do these after every paper view to get you on and do some reaction to the paper views because I think it's fun.

Obviously, we've been doing this forever. Of course, we've got a big car coming up in July, Glover Tashara, Yuri Prakashka, Yowana Yonchechech, making her return, Valentina Shepchenko's back. So I feel like June, we'll have you back, and we'll do some reaction to UFC 275. You down with that?

I love it, bro. Let's go. Love it. All right. Thanks to everyone that tunes into the show each and every week. We appreciate it. We will see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you then. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap.

You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything, like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared. That's why I remember, 988, Canada's suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know, just in case.

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