MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Conor McGregor Finally Booking UFC Return, Ryan Garcia’s Upset Win Over Devin Haney

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin discussing the latest news in combat sports including Conor McGregor finally booking his return to action at UFC 303. It’s been three years since McGregor last fought, which raised some doubts about whether he would ever return to compete again, but he’s now scheduled to fight Michael Chandler in June. But what kind of expectations should we have for McGregor in 2024 with his last truly meaningful win coming all the way back in 2016 when he demolished Eddie Alvarez to become a two-division champion? How dangerous is Chandler as an opponent in McGregor’s return? Plus we’ll talk about Ryan Garcia pulling off a massive upset with his majority decision win over Devin Haney this past weekend. Garcia also wasted no time accepting a challenge from UFC champion Sean O’Malley but should we even entertain these callouts any longer? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend. who is under the weather Matt Brown right now, Matt,

soldiering through to come on and do the podcast, even though he's not 100%. That's how he knows. That's how much he loves this show. He's not even feeling great and he's still here. Matt, how are you? Well, I was very under the weather. Now I'm braving the storm now where you can put it because it was hell week for me.

Like it might have been worse than buds hell week. Now, when you get sick, are you like the kind of guy who like refuses to, admit you're sick because that's me like whenever I'm sick I'll be like half dying and like fever a hundred or two and I'm like no man I'm fine I'm good to go like I'll just need all my work to it I do for a while and then eventually I can see too like okay I'm fucked because that's what you know that's what everybody's telling you is like you know you need to rest you need to rest I'm like I don't need a rest I need to push through this and then eventually

I'm like okay I think they're right yeah how was it now you had it's like you got COVID at some point right shit i might have had it last week yeah i had back in the the heyday of the of the fucking bullshit yeah yeah i had it i had it and i was real bad for about two and a half three days and then like it just started coming back like the worst part about mine was i did lose my sense of smell for like two weeks that sucked but like three days and i was pretty good i got sick recently during what's really sucked during uc 300 fight week like that entire week i was actually feeling pretty miserable and uh and i and i and i soldier through and by saturday night i was pretty okay but i had a pretty nasty cough and congestion and stuff but uh yeah i think that was worse

when i had covid i know i didn't have covid because i tested it but like i had go over once i was real bad for about two and a half days then like i started like turn around but those two and half days i felt like i was death warmed over i just want to know why the fuck we can put people on the moon we can you know make fucking a i all this amazing shit we could we got a complete computer and the palm of our hands that gives you all the world's information, but we can't figure out how to cure a calm and fucking cold. I can't remember what I care what comedian did the bit, but he's like,

he's like the reason why is because they don't want, because getting, like making you well makes them not rich. Like, they got to, they got to keep you sick so they can keep treating you. They're like, they'll treat the symptoms.

They don't treat the disease because they treat the disease, then you're not, you don't need them anymore. You need the medicine. said you need this and that and you know that's uh it's wrong right i hope he's right because that's insinuating that there is a cure out there somewhere and if there is i would search you know through the deepest depths of hell to find that motherfucker because i'm you know it's kind of like how people say oh they got cars that run on water but you know shell you know killed the person

that did it and the patents are destroyed now like well someone would go through the fucking hell to find that right like it's a lot of money there Yeah. You know, I would go through just about anything to find a cure for the fucking cold. Because this shit is the most miserable goddamn thing that you could imagine. You know, you couldn't interrogate terrorists with this shit. You know, just give them a fucking flu for a couple weeks and, you know, slap them every 20 minutes. Like, you don't have to waterboard them.

Think about this way. And I'm not trying to play conspiracy theorists here. But think about this way. Most people, and I'm not obviously, I'm not discounting people who do get sick. can die from a colder of flu, especially elderly people or if you have other shit. But like, generally speaking, you just feel miserable for a week or two, but you get past

it. When we were kids, you and I are basically the same age. When we were kids, we remember when HIV first came out and like that was like, I mean, that was killing people. Like, left and right, it was killing people. You got HIV it was a death sentence. Like you were going to eventually die. And now they... As long as you weren't Magic Johnson.

Yeah, and they've adapted enough, they would adopt it and and figured out enough drugs now to wear it. To get support where you can eliminate the, whatever is the viral count to where you don't even test for it anymore. They've more or less, not exactly, I don't want discount people who still die from that disease, but they have more or less found a way to get it to the point where you don't die from HIV.

Like they've gotten the drugs they've gotten now, the combination of drugs they've got now, they've got to the point where you don't die from that. And like, that's awesome. Like, that's amazing. I'm happy they did that. Like, I think that's like, I think like the common cold and the flu, like, well, you'll get past this to fuck it. We don't even worry about that.

Like, you'll eventually get past this. So we'll give you the. We'll give you the Benadryl. We'll give you the fucking diamond tap. We'll give you the, you know, whatever. We'll give you that shit, the mucinex. You'll be good. And then, you know, we'll keep making money off of you.

Because you're eventually going to be fine in like two weeks. But, you know, the thing that's going to kill you, we'll definitely do more about that. It's so funny you say that because I was researching it. You know, I mean, you know, you got, I'm just laying around all fucking day and half dead. So I start reading on my phone. Like, you know, what does it come from? And, you know, what could potentially. you know I mean because the biggest the biggest thing that pisses me off is stresses you out even more

every time you get a little sickness every single person and their brother and their sister tells you take this take this try this do this and I'm like none of this shit fucking works like because I think what happens most of the time is still you know like one person was telling me to take more magnesium right and it's like it's like it's like you you probably took magnesium the day before you were already getting better anyway and now in your head fucking magnesium works like fuck off like i'm just going to lay here drink nikel to fucking die and or to overdose or whatever you know so i can't take it anymore and fucking come back stronger it was one of my one of my favorite things i ever saw on i think it was on

ticot as a pharmacist who's on ticot and they were talking about like the bullshit of vitamins like they were talking about, like they have all these different drugs you take, like when you get sick and they have all these different vitamin C things like the, you know, I care what they're called, but you know what I'm talking about, like the super dose of vitamin C. And the pharmacy

and shit. Yeah, and the pharmacist was like, it's just like there's nothing wrong with taking vitamin C. Of course it can't help you. But like, once your body gets past like the 100% point, all it does is you piss them back out again. So you get like a 5,000% vitamin C, that sounds.

Sounds great, but really 499% of that, you're just pissing back out again. Your body can only handle so much item and C. It doesn't make you better. You just piss it all out again. I'd say what, there's only been one thing that I ever felt like actually truly helped me. And it's called Chaga root, C-H-A-G-A. And it's a fungus, it's a mushroom, you know, grows on trees. And, you know, this survivalist guy gave it to me one time.

He went out and chopped it himself and everything And I'll tell you what That's the one thing that I felt like actually works But I couldn't get a hold of them this time And ordered some off Amazon It's still not here So Yeah

It's uh But that's the only Again everybody's got their fucking thing You know some people You know drink a bunch of tea and ginger Which I do that too But you know Some people say just drink water and rest

Or some people take airborne or The emergency The vitamin C everybody's got their thing. This is the one thing that worked for me. So, you know, I think it's worth having on hand. Or fuck off and, you know, it doesn't work probably for all I know. What I, here's what I all said.

And I actually do a pre-healing. I listen, I get it. Why people take whatever they take and certainly not telling you not to go to the doctor. I'm certainly never going to tell you that. But I was, did the interview with Chris Wybin before his last fight and his winner whenever Bruno Silva, we were talking about like pain management. see, you know, that broken leg, like, he's like, it still hurts to this day. Like, it's never going to not hurt just because it's such a terrible injury.

And he was so of pain management. When you had that kind of injury, because I've done this, I got into a car accident. When I, like, the reason why I, like, I come from a family of addicts. My mom and dad were both addicts. My dad was a drunk. My mom was a pillhead. Okay. They were both really bad.

And so I've always been very aware not to allow myself to walk down that path because I know I come from that. Like, both of my parents were addict. So I'm like. very aware of never allowing myself to drink too much or you know into that kind of stuff because I know I had that of personality and I got in a car accident once when I was a teenager

and they immediately just gave me Vicod and their Perkaners I can't remember what it was because I mean I was banged up pretty good and they're like you're going to be hurt tomorrow and I was they gave me like Vicodin or Perkan and I took a couple of those and holy shit like I was like now I see why people get addicted to this shit holy shit like it knocked me out and I could not feel anything

like I felt like my body was just numb Like it was the most euphoric, crazy wild feeling I ever had my entire life. And I was talking to Wybin about that. And he said that there's some pill he's taken out. It's like a natural herbal supplement. And it's dramatically helped him to not need to take pain medication. Because he's like, dude, I could ask for whatever I want and the doctors would give it to me. Like I could like, dude, I need a thousand milligrams of Vicodin.

And with my injury, they'd be like, sure, here you go. And he's like, I could 100% get any kind of pain pill I wanted. But I found something that works for me. Now, I'm not saying that it was. I'm not saying it's scientifically proven. I'm certainly not telling people with dramatic pain to take it. Maybe it's a placebo effect. Maybe he thinks it works and it just works because that's how powerful your brain can be.

But in his case, I was like, yeah, that's probably smart because I can only imagine how quickly you could get addicted to drugs because your leg is constantly throbbing. Like, I know for a fact when I've had injuries of little things that I'm certainly not fighter, but I know how like you're just like, man, I just want this pain to stop. And so you'll take it. And so like, I don't know. I'm not saying there's scientific proof behind what he's. taking is working, but it works for him. And if that keeps him from him to take Vicodin and Perkinan

and shoveling pain pills and the oxycod and whatever it is, dude, good for you. You know what I mean? Like whatever it is, it keeps you off that shit, because that's the shit will kill you. That's a fact, yeah. And the, um, is it crate him? It might be. I can't remember. He told me what it was and I forget the name of it. He's got

he actually started partner with the supplement company and he's, he basically has like, he's going to start selling it, but under the agreement that if he doesn't work, they'll give you your money back. He's not trying to, like, build people out of their money. But he's like, it really does work for me. And I did, I mean, if there's one guy who probably knows what it's like to deal with

that kind of pain is, Chris Wyman. But yeah, I mean, good. But like I said, whatever it is, it works for him. You know what I mean? He's taking something natural that doesn't need him to be on, like, oxy cotton. And you and I... Yeah, it's funny. I've never taken any of those pills for pain ever.

But I'm taking them for fun a lot of times. Dude, it's wild. When I, I'll never, I was like 17. I took him. I was like, holy shit. Yeah, I know why people get addicted to this stuff. A hundred percent. Yeah, and the biggest problem is your tolerance builds to them so quick.

Like, I remember back in the day, I used to take percocets and, you know, start with, you know, this week, maybe you're taking five milligrams here and there. And then within a couple weeks, you're doing like, you know, 10, 15, 20 a day of, you know, 10 milligrams. You know what I mean? Like, your tolerance just builds so fast. and you just it keeps feeling good like no matter how many you do

you know like it doesn't it's not like you know some drugs like say acid or something like like or even like cocaine like you do enough and like you're kind of at the peak you know like the perka sets once you build that tolerance

like you can just keep going you know and and it it still feels great yeah but that's why I say like when I did that, I was like, I get it. Like, I understand it. Like, I understand how quickly you can get addicted to this shit. Because I was on her for like two days. And I felt so euphoric and I felt nothing. I was like, I get it, man. And that was a lot of years ago, I was like 17 when this happened. Ever since then, I was like, whenever I've had anything that's happened to me,

injury was, I injured my knee several years ago. And the doctor's like, well, we can give you like percissette or, you know, something to bike it and something to like help you with the pain until we can like, you know, get you into deal with your knee. I was like, nope, not doing it. I was like, unless it's so unbearable. You got to get them anyway and sell them on the black market. And our next episode will be taking place with Damon in prison. So this will be awesome. It's like, you know, your insurance pays for it.

It's like, you know, get your money back for your insurance. Yeah, but it's terrifying, dude. Like I said, when I did it, I knew in two, like what I do in two days. I was like, man, I see how people get addicted to the shit. Like it was so fast. Speaking of addiction, I think someone that bought recently. He's been doing a lot of perkinsets and my goodness. Dude, okay, let's just talk about it.

Alcohol, something. All right, let's just talk about it because we watched a fight on Saturday night. Ryan Garcia beat Devin Haney. Pretty handling. I mean, I understand Devin Haney won rounds, but, I mean, he got knocked down three times. You lost the fight.

Ryan Garcia was, I drink every day. I drink every week. And he was, dude, I was to the point, like the day before the fight when he missed weight and he comes on the scale drinking a beer. and I know they said he was drinking, you know, it wasn't really a beer, and maybe it was all for show, whatever. But I actually put out a tweet and I said,

is anyone looking out for this dude's best interest? Because it just does not look like he needs to be in there right now. Now, he says he was trolling us all. I think maybe to a certain extent he was trolling us because, you know, maybe he was like actually was training or he was having fun. But like, I don't think it was all fake. I don't think he was all the way gone. But then to go out there and had that kind of fight,

holy crap, man, what a performance. Well, the one part, nobody's really, talked about much with this too. Those guys have fought six times before in the amateurs, right? So they knew each other very, very well. Right? So their game plan, it wasn't like they had to watch

a bunch of tape to create a game plan. Like Ryan Garcia knew exactly how to beat Devin Haney, and he implemented it on that day. Devin Haney knew exactly how to beat Ryan. In retrospect, looking back at the fight,

you could tell Devin Haney knew that he was in an uphill battle against Ryan Garcia's power the whole time. You know what I mean? When you kind of look back at like his kind of shyness towards getting in close and I kept grabbing on every time they got anywhere near each other, he certainly knew about that hook the whole time. And, you know, I think his game plan was, you know, how do I beat this hook, right? How do I beat his power the whole time?

And it worked for a lot of the fight. He, you know, his confidence was good and worked for a lot of the fight. But Ryan knew. Like, you could tell he knew. You know, I don't know how he trained for the fight. Like, I'm not even going to speculate. I don't give a fuck. But he knew from the moment the bell rang that he was going to hurt Devin Haney at some point.

Yeah. It was, now, again, I do want to, I do want to mention, I think it has to be mentioned. You can't discount the fact that they agreed to fight at 140 pounds. and Ryan Garcia missed by three pounds. And you know Matt, as well as I do, when a guy misses weight by, you know, and you're talking about, especially when you talk about lower weights, when you get into the three and four pounds, something like that, that's a big percentage of your body weight.

Like, it's not like your 205 pounds and you weigh in a 207. That's still bad, but, like, that's a much smaller percentage of your overall body weight versus 140 to 143 pounds. So it has to be mentioned. And you could tell, like Ryan was certainly the bigger fighter in there. You could tell he was much bigger than Devin Haines. Now, I'm certainly not discounted the performance because you could tell, as you said, I thought Devin looked gun shy, he didn't engage, he really didn't use his jab much.

Like, you could tell he did not want to be in Ryan Garcia's face. And, yeah, it was weird. And I'm not, listen, again, I'm not mocking anybody, but did you see the, uh, the wager that Adasanya made on Devin Haney on Saturday night? $20,000 for him to knock out Ryan Garcia. Dude, Devin Haney hasn't knocked anybody out in like nine years. Like, that was a bad bet. to make on Ryan Garcia's worst night.

Yeah, Devin Haney's not a knockout guy. And the, you know, the bigger part with that weight miss, in my opinion, is that, you know, Ryan just simply didn't have to put in that extra work for those last three pounds, right? And that tells me, like, he knew his cardio wasn't there. And he knew that he could knock out Devin Haney, though. You know what I mean? Like, that was the whole thing, which I guess he didn't knock him out. you know, he was kind of banking on, and you've seen it play out in the fight, right?

He was banking on the big shots. He wasn't outboxing Devin Haney by any stretch. Like, Devin Haney was outboxing him. That's how the fight became almost even. But he knew that his power was what's going to win in that fight. And the motherfucker was right, you know. It's the Deonté Wilder thing. You know, Deonti Wilder, we've said many times, he's not a great boxer, but you stand in front of him long enough.

but he lands on corks that one shot. Yeah, that's it. And what sucks about it, too, is a Ryan is a good boxer. You know, he actually has a good boxing, but he just didn't even, it's like he didn't even try on Saturday against Devin. He didn't even try to box him. And I think he knew Devin was the better boxer, and he knew that that wasn't a good game player.

But, you know, some of the, some of the silly things, like turning his back on the shoulder roll and, you know, the constant holding and punching off the brink. Just so much of that is such an ugly fight. It was like the greatest ugly fight I've ever seen of my life because it was literally like, and I think that was ultimately what got Ryan Garcia the win was that he pulled Devin into an ugly fight.

And you could tell when the fight started getting uglier and uglier, like it was favoring Ryan a big time. But when it was a nice, clean fight and just boxer versus boxer, like Devin was smoking him. It's funny because he hit him with that left hand early in the first round and clawed him. We showed the replay. You see his eyes roll back.

You're like, oh, damn, it was legit. I didn't think he was getting. I knew he caught him, but when they showed the replay, I was like, damn, he really did catch him. You see his eyes rolled back. But then Devin adjusted and started out boxing. And then Ryan was just like not doing anything. Like he wasn't throwing punches.

He wasn't coming after him. He basically just circled away, circled away. And like rounds two, three, four, five, and six. I was like kind of getting disinterested. because it was like Devin was just like going after him and Ryan wasn't even engaging and then boom seven round seven round knocks him down again and it was a bad one and knocked him right on his ass and I was like holy shit and then from seven on I didn't think he was getting up from it that that was the one where he got up and then tackled him and then you know the one knocked down that the referee didn't call because Ryan clocked him Devin falls on to Ryan Ryan's holding him up Ryan lets him go and you know the fucking referee was like like you couldn't be more clearly for Devin Haney than that referee in that round.

That referee, like, taking the point away and, like, not calling the other knockdown, like, it was so bad. It was such, like, listen, I know referees have to have an incredibly hard job because we do this. We talk about when they screw up so rarely do we talk about when they do something great. But boy, oh, boy, that guy was awful. Yeah, well, especially that round. Most of the fight, you know, I think he could have been a little bit harder about them. holding on to each other, right?

He never docked a point for, you know, particularly Devin Haney holding, but I think Ryan was holding a lot too and trying to make it look like Devin was holding. I mean, it was a tough job for the referee. You know, that was, like I said, that was an ugly fight. That was a tough Jot night for him all around.

But in that seventh round, how, like, how he fucked that up so bad? Like, you know, there's a point where we understand how hard of a job they got and we got to give them some leeway but there's a point where like no like that's some bullshit yeah like you should be fine for that one motherfucker yeah it was bad and then like dude coming out knocks him down again the 10 knocks him down to 11th like dude I'm like I'm shocked that devon Haney made it to the end like he got he got badly in the late part of that fight and how he survived at the end of the 12 and again to his I mean

to his creditor discredit I mean I want to say a lot of it was him just basically hanging on for dear life. Like he wasn't, he wasn't surviving as much as he was getting up and holding on to Ryan Garcia. And that's where the referee again, like, had to penalize it. Because you could tell he was literally just hanging on. He was hanging on for dear life just to make it to the end of rounds. And so, you know, the referee just didn't do his job in those moments. But I guess credit to him. So right. And thank God, the judges, one judge scored to draw and then the other two got it right. You're like, good. Like, how do you knock your guy out three times and clearly win those rounds? And like that would have been, I mean, good Lord, that would have been such a

horrible decision if he would have lost that fight because the visuals of seeing a guy get knocked down that badly and three times especially in that seventh where should have been more than one knocked down and I I'm not saying you should have stopped it but boy there were a couple of moments where it looked like it was over and have that guy win or go to a draw like that would be the boxing community would lose their freaking minds and to be fair I mean that that is the point system in boxing though it is you know and I don't think Ryan won a single round where he didn't knock him down Yeah. Maybe he did.

I'd have to rewatch. I didn't keep score that close. But it, you know, Devin won just about every other round, if not every other round, where Ryan didn't knock him down. And then, of course, that point taken away in the seventh. That was the big game changer there. And I mean, I know when the fight ended in the 12th, I was not confident that Ryan had won. I mean, he was definitely the winner of a fight.

Yeah. But did he win on the scorecards? I was not confident because you got to give some props and credit to Devin Haney because he kept fighting. He didn't, I mean, he did a lot of holding, but he wasn't running away. He stayed in the pocket a lot of times, came forward a lot, even through all of those knockdowns and knowing the danger that he was getting into, walking into the fire constantly over and over. And Devin has not been tested like that. So, you know, we did see that Devin's a warrior.

he just doesn't have much pop in his gloves and you know has some defense that he needs to work on yeah Ryan Garcia showed no fear taking a punch from Devin Haney like he just walked through his punches like there was nothing like he just did not fear that whatsoever and yeah I know I get what you're saying you're not wrong I mean like I said I look back at that Tyson Fierre d'ante wilder match where dionte basically murdered him in that 10th round or whatever it was had him face first on the canvas and somehow Tyson got up again and he had two knockdowns and it ended up being a draw. But he got the draw because he had the two knockdowns, not because he actually fought evenly throughout the whole fight.

Dyson beat him in every other single round. But then, you know, Deonté knocked him on his ass badly twice. And so ended up being a draw. So, yeah, you're not wrong. I mean, because, like I said, up to that point in the fight when I scored it, like it had been all Devin Haney outside of the first round and then basically every other round with the knockdown, 7, 10, and 11.

It was all Devin. So, yeah, I get it. But, again, it's like that visual of it. How do you see a guy get that badly knocked down three times. And then even that first round where he got clocked pretty hard. You thought maybe he was going to go down. And then to lose that fight, good Lord, man. That's just the wild

part about the 10 point must system. Yeah, exactly. That's what it is. That's what people always tend to forget. Same in UFC, same in boxing. It's not a fight. I mean, it is a fight, but it's not a real fight, I should say. It's not a real fight. Like, it is a points

base game. And, you know, I would love to make a promotion one day where it is a real fight. said that a million times i'd love to have a you know even if it was like a karate combat style or uh um you know mma ufc style or even boxing just no time limit like the you know you have to win to win you have to win a fight to win like it's not a point thing yeah it would be interesting so now obviously coming out of that you know ryan garcia says he's not you know he's not going back down and weight it's killing him he can't do it he's going to fight bigger weight so kind of in a

way I match and it kills the rematch. So instead, it looks like we're going to get Devin Haney or, excuse me, Ryan Garcia, Sean O'Malley, which is the boxing match that everyone wants right now. Yeah, that's what everybody wants to see, right? What, stop. Why do we do this? Like, why to come on, I get it. I understand the concept of like, I want to prove myself and the payday.

I get, dude, I get to payday part of it. I understand that part of it too. But can we just stop? Like, I, I, whatever this happens, and here's the problem. at whenever this happens, we have to tell reality. If Ryan Garcia came to the UFC and fought Sean O'Malley in the UFC, it would be the biggest mismatch we've seen since James Tony tried to do it, or CM Punk came in and tried to do it.

It would be, but it's so disrespectful to think just being now, would it, you know, do you have better skills going into boxing versus the other way around? Absolutely you do. You absolutely do. But to sit here and say that in his first boxing match, Sean O'Malley is going to beat Ryan Garcia in a boxing match. Can we just stop? Like, can we stop?

Man, I wish they would just someday just have a show. Like, let's take all the UFC guys and put them in boxing matches, match them up with boxers, and let's just see if anybody can actually do it. I mean, we keep talking about it. Like, let's just put on a show once and just let's see if they could do it. We know what would happen if they come to UFC. I think most of them know what would happen. Most boxers, you know, we could do the show that way too.

You know, like you guys come to M.A. And, you know, every single one of you get leg kicked and submitted or, you know, like, this isn't complicated. But I would like to see it. Like, let's just be done with it. You know, let's just have one big ass show. Let's get Ryan Garcia versus Sean O'Malley. Let's get Connor versus, you know, whatever. you know, boxer he wants to fight.

You know, let's get Izzy in there. Like, hell, put me in there. George Mosvado. Let's put them all in there. You know, like, let's just do a big show and be done with it. Yeah, and listen, when we say this, it sounds like I dislike Sean O'Malley. I don't dislike Sean O'Malley.

In an actual fight, a mixed martial arts fight, Ryan Garcia wouldn't last a minute too many. However long, Sean O'Malley wanted to fight to last. If he decided I want to throw a calf kick here, I want to throw a guillotine joke, whatever it is. That's how long the fight. would last. And to their credit, and again, I know Ryan Garcia said, like, I do MMA. I know a couple of guys have said it, but in reality, they haven't done it. Like, Tyson's here he said it for about

two seconds. Then he fought and gone to boxing. And suddenly he's like, I only want to box this guy. But, like, most boxers have enough, like, enough knowledge to understand that you're not going to come in and be effective in MMA because it's a really hard sport to learn. I just wish MMA fighters would show that same reverence. Like, I like Sean. And when I say this, it's a same. I'm sounds like I'm talking shit on him. I'm not. I'm just saying, dude, stop. You're not a boxer.

We also have to be careful, like, generalizing everybody, too, saying, like, because he's a great-in-may fighter, he couldn't be a great-bosser, because the great-bacher couldn't be a great-imm-a fighter. I mean, you can't generalize the entire group on both sides. And then, you know, even if there's anomalies that are, you know, boxers, like, I think, like, Gennady wrestled a lot growing up, right? Like so maybe, you know, he would, I remember, what was the one guy's name? It's not coming to, Hermit, Kermit, Kermit, Kermit, Kermit Cintron.

Oh, Kermin Cintron, yeah. Yeah, like, he was a great wrestler coming up. You know, so who's to say he couldn't come over to M.A. And do some great things. But, you know, so generalizing it, I think, is tough. But then you got to also add in, okay, well, how long do we give him to train? You know, how long is he going to be seriously training for MMA? you know, take, take, you know, an athlete like Ryan Garcia.

I mean, he's a crazy good athlete. And if he's seriously trained for two, three, maybe four years, you know, I don't go with the six months of sprawl training thing, right? But the old joke. But, you know, you give him a few years. I think he'd have a pretty damn. Look when Alex Pereira came over. I mean, you know, everybody's first out was, dude,

someone's going to take him down and submit him, right? like and look at what he's done now i mean of course he's a kickboxer and but you know i just i think there's a lot more nuance to that argument um and who's to say a ufc fighter you know isn't that great at boxing you know we all put these boxers on pedestals because they're they're you know they've boxed for so long and that's all they do and they become champion in boxing but you know we put them on these pedestals but who's to say that you know you know matchup wise you know sometimes it's just matchup like a guy might have extraordinary hands and we don't even necessarily get to see in the ufc so much like shan o'malley for instance maybe

he could go over to boxing and we're not seeing how good his hands really are because he's fighting m m m and not utilizing him just like that i mean and this is just playing devil's ad advocate here this isn't really necessarily what i believe but uh i think it's something to think about when people are talking about this argument. And I'm not saying it can't be done. What I'm saying where I say, like, we got to stop with this is doing it on day one is what I'm getting at. Like, Sean and Malley going into boxing and winning some fights, it's just like, you

know, I'm not saying you can't do that. It's stepping in day one and fighting Ryan Garcia and doing it. Like, to me, that's, again, it'd be the same way. Like, yes, I think Ryan Garcia is an incredible athlete, give him three years of training. Could he do some things? Sure, maybe. But would you have him come in on day one and fight? And technically, if he's going up and wait, like, when we come in day one, having fight Ilya, Taboria, having fight Alexander Volcanowski, what chance would he have?

He'd have no chance. Three years of training, he'd have no chance. But could he win a fight? Could he win some fights? Could he work his way up and learn and grow? Sure. I mean, even Alex Pereira, for as much of a freak as he's been coming in and eight fights and doing what he's done, he didn't come in on his first fight and fight. Like, he had to get a little bit of experience.

He had to get a little bit of, like, his feet wet. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I'm talking. It's not even that they can't do it. It also comes down to matchups a lot, too. It does. Like Alex absolutely could have fought Israel on his first fight because of the way Israel fights him, the same way he fought him in kickboxing.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like a matchup has so, so much to do with that. Yeah. And that's what I'm getting at that. But I'm saying like in this case, like I just think it's like, it's just so wild to think that you're going to go around day one and beat one of the absolute best guys in the world.

I mean, listen, I know women's boxing isn't like, I'm not saying like, I'm not like Clarissa Shields is one of the best women boxers on the planet she could she's looked like she's looked awful in MMA and she's fought I mean she fights in a weight class that doesn't exist she fights girls who don't exist like girls who don't exist there is no

155 pound weight class in reality or 160 pounds whatever she's fighting at it does not exist to mix martial arts and yet she's barely scraping by like the bar room waitress who they have her fighting because like there's no one really heard a fight. That's what I'm talking about.

The reality is, like, I'm not saying you can't, like, can you become Holly Holie home and learn and grow and become Holly Home and go in there and knockout Ronda Rousey? Yes, you can. And, but as you said, there's matchups. Like, Ronda Rousey was a god-awful striker who somehow believed she had a knockout, and she had, like, one knockout, and suddenly she's a striker, and that just backfired spectacularly against Holly Home. And just like you said, Alex Pereer, like, Israel-A-Sania is always going to be that

matchup because he already knew Israel-A-A-Sania so well, and stylistically is a solacellia. He's not a grabbless, not what he's known for. But yeah, like, there's going to be those instances. Yes, I get it. There's going to be, but I just like, and I know you said... The bigger thing here that I would add, though, is

we're talking about boxers coming to M.A. Right? It is far easier for a kickboxer to come to M.MA. Yeah. Right? Like, that's a way smaller jump. It's like, okay, you only have to avoid the ground now. If you're a boxer,

chances are very high. You have to change everything, right? Like, Alex could already deal with calf kicks. I mean, he's a great calf kicker himself, right? He can already deal with late kicks, clench, knees, a boxer, they don't have none of that. So, like, it's a way bigger jump for a boxer, that's for sure. Race the runners. Raise the sails. Raise the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise? sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title, and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started today at linktend.com

slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. Ever feel like your work tools are working against you? Too many apps, endless emails, and scattered chats can slow everything down. Zoom brings it all together, meetings, chat, docs, and AI companion seamlessly on one platform. With everything connected, your workday flows, collaboration feels easier, and progress actually happens. Take back your workday at zoom.com slash podcast and zoom ahead. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Now, you mentioned a name, I know, people get so sick when we talk about this,

but we can't not talk about it real quick before we get out of here. and that is the return Connor McGregor is officially back he's fighting a UFC 303 against Michael Chandler main event international fight week I spoke to Chandler last week obviously he's very excited his waiting paid all for him and good for him

there were definitely moments where I was like dude what are you doing like this fight ain't happening I started drinking the Matt Brown Kool-Aid where I said Connor's never coming back and listen to an extent he's not in the octagon yet so we can't say it was 100 100% I was going to say first but it's official at least.

I mean, they're promoting it. It's no longer like Connor announcing stuff and saying, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. Like the UFC actually announced it this time. And I know from Chandler,

they signed bout agreement. So it's like a real deal. So are you expecting Connor to step back in there June 29th? Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it's all a done deal. So, you know,

more power to him. And I'm glad that he proved me wrong. I was saying that all along. Like, I didn't believe it. But that doesn't mean I didn't want to see it. Like, I'm excited for this fight. And I think it's a great matchup on paper.

You know, I think this could be a tremendous fight. I think it's a great fight. I mean, I think it's the perfect fight for both guys. I mean, you know, Chandler, Chandler has that incredibly exciting style, and he does take risks, which if Conner is the surgical, precise guy he used to be, that could be a very bad night for Michael Chandler. But at the same time, even the guys who have beaten Michael Chandler, Justin Gave. Dustin Porreier, Charles Olivera. They did not walk away on skate. He nearly finished Charles Olivera in the first round.

He took Dustin down and beat him up pretty, had him badly hurt in that first round, took him down, and had him, had him, you know, had him on wobbly legs. He hurt Gagichi a couple of times on defeat. Now, again, credit, both those guys beat him, but that's a dangerous thing. I don't know that Conner's chin. I don't know that he has the chin of a Gaci or a Pori, that he can take a couple of those shots to keep coming. And after three years off and after the broken legs. So stylistically, like, I think it is a winnable fight for Connor,

but I also think it's a very dangerous fight for Connor. Boy, I'm dead on the same exactly what you just said because Michael Chandler, like you said, is going to come after him. Like, we already know this. I don't think he's going to change his style. I don't think he's going to be any less tenacious. I don't think he's going to be any less aggressive. And in Connor in his prime, I mean, I think he would.

would have loved to fight Michael Chandler. I think that's exactly the type of guy that he loved counter striking against, you know, like an Eddie Alvarez type, right? Where, you know, he's going to throw some counter combos that's going to hurt you and he's barely going to get touched. But like you said, is Connor still that guy? And, you know, his last fight with Porier,

he was pressuring Porriere a lot, you know, and ended up not working out for him. I don't think that's the way to fight Chandler. So, boy, this is a tough one, man. And I don't think it's going to be an easy call. We don't know how Connor's going to show up at night, right? That's the big question mark. Whereas Michael Chandler, even with the amount of time off,

I think we know exactly who the fuck's going to show up that night. Yeah. And I want to be, I'm not certain to say, you certainly don't mean me defending any, we've said on this podcast, but I want to be clear about this, because if you go back to list our old show back in the day when we did it with you, me, Mark Coleman, our buddy Jeremy Loper, like, you were,

I don't, I'm not going to, like, categorize it, but I would say you were like a fan of Connor. Like, you liked Connor. So, like, anytime you said, like, Connor, I don't think he's coming back. I think he's done. I don't think he's going to fight again. It was never out of malice that you didn't like the guy. It's just that nothing you saw, and again, I'm paraphrasing it.

Nothing you saw gave you confidence that Connor was like rushing to get back to the Octon that he was really committed to fighting. Now, he's back. And as you said, like, I proved me wrong because, to be fair, like, you did praise Connor a lot during his career. You just said, again, I don't want to put words to your mouth. You've more or less said that I just don't know that Conner's that guy anymore. That's fair, right? Like, he's just, and you know what? Anyone who breaks down this fight between now and June 29th and doesn't at least admit to themselves that we don't know what Connor we're going to get is lying to themselves because you don't.

He's been away for three years. He's coming off of a horrible. injury and he's going to be 35, 36 years old. Generally speaking, you do not get better with age at that point. Like, there's a prime time and career. There's a reason why that stat was out there where, like, no one over the age of 35 has been a champion into lower weight classes. It's not like we're knocking the older fighters. It's just, that's throughout history.

It's never happened. So if you're sitting there saying, Connor's back, Connor's going to look just like the old Connor. You can't, you can think that, you can hope that, but you can't know for sure because we don't. they Connor didn't look like that against Porre the second time. You can't sit until like three years gone has been better for him. Right.

And I wish that I could see, you know, behind the scenes here. Because I don't really know much about how the contracts work and all that. I should because I've been the UFC for fucking ever. But I just signed contracts and fight. You know, never really worked the business side much. But Connor is certainly a great businessman. But I know there's been some different talk about maybe the U.S. see trying to hold off on him and all these different things.

So I just wonder if there's any part of that at play. And if there is, you know, if that could potentially affect Conner's performance here. You know, is he coming back to simply fight out his contract? Is he, you know, does he have other plans on top of that? You know, is he coming back because he's hungry and wants to come back? You know, I think there's just some open variables there that I don't know anything about. Maybe you do. Well, and to be fair, and you're absolutely right, me he has two fights left on his deal.

He said that very openly. And as far as I know, he didn't sign a new contract to get this deal done. So he fights Michael Chandler, he has one fight left on his contract. And Michael Chandler said something to me last week, and I can't disagree. He's like, I think there's a world where Connor goes out there. And if he loses badly, that's the last time we see Connor in the UFC. Because like it or not, whether you love, you love fighting and you say, oh, I'll never retire. This is the game.

This is what I do. you come back from three years off, a broken leg, and you get slept by Michael Chandler, and that's after you got slept by Dust of Poria and got your leg broken into Dust of Poria fight. A fight, you were losing, by the way. He wasn't winning that fight. He was getting handled, then he broke his leg.

Like, there's a world where it's do or die for Connor. Like, he goes out there and wins. Connor's back. If he goes out there and knocks out Michael Chandler, I don't care what you say, it's impressive because Michael Chandler does not get put down like that by very many people. The only guys who have put him down in the UFC are three of the best. lightweights on planet Earth. Charles O'Olavera, Justin Gachey, and Dustin Porea.

You go out there and sleep Michael Chandler. We will celebrate and say Conner's back. But if you got there and get slept by Michael Chandler and you've been gone for three years, you're now 35 going on 36. The questions are going to come up. How much do you have left in the tank? What are you really doing this for? Yeah. And I got to wonder that right now, you know, assuming he's already been training in training camp, I just don't see how you couldn't wake up every now and then say, what am I doing this? for you know and and that's why i said he probably wouldn't ever come back but here he is coming back um and i wonder you know if he actually trains really hard for this fight which i think is

important to do being that you're fighting michael fucking chanler he's a lion you know he's going to come at you like a goddamn uh cannonball you know um so he better be training hard and you know if any of those questions i'm not saying they will they may not he might get grimy and training camp and dirty and go hard and not have any questions. But if they do, you know, the second you get knocked out and you wake up and say, God damn it, I must not have won, those questions are going to come right to the forefront of your mind. Yeah.

And listen, the end of the day, the reality is, is like, listen, we all, when Connor is around and at his absolute best, the sports fun. I like Connor. I like it. I didn't like some of the antics he started pulling in his last couple of fights, talking about poor his wife and the stuff he did with Khabi. It got ugly and it was no longer funny. The film was almost like Colby Covington humor, which is not him.

But at his best, at his, who the fuck is that guy? Like, at his absolute best and then goes in there and sleep shows he al-da, does everything he said he was going to do. That's the Connor we all love. But again, the reality is that was Connor eight years ago. Like it or not, the last time Connor was that guy in the UFC, was 2016 when he knocked out Eddie Alres. I know he beat Donald Soroni.

I'm not discounting that win, but come on. Like, I don't think we're going to say that's the same level at that point as the win ever did. The last time Connor was at his absolute peak best in the UFC was eight years ago. How you cannot come into this fight thinking, I don't know what we're going to see out of him. I don't know what we're going to get. I don't know what Connor's going to show up. You're lying to yourself because you have to ask those questions because he didn't,

he did not look great in that Porreier rematch. He got taken down, he got beat up, and then he broke his leg, and again, that's the memory, that's the lasting memory of that fight. But we forget, before that, Porre was beating him up. It was not even, like, really a close fight. And now he's got three more years of time off,

of a lot of time not in the gym because you're recovering from a broken leg, and you're coming back in. Yeah, shooting a movie, and Lord knows what else he was doing. I think we all kind of imagine what his extracurricular activities were when he wasn't training.

again that's you can't you cannot have absolute confidence he's going to come in to look the same now again that doesn't mean he can't win Connor's still a dangerous guy and he could knock out Michael Chandler in 45 seconds and holy shit we lose our minds but you can't at least not ask those questions you can't sit here and just be always back well Connor's back man let's celebrate it can't do that I agree and that's the biggest question mark I have about coming back against Michael Chandler like we said when when Connor's at his best you got to think Chandler's a good matchup for him And that's a matchup he probably wants. And he probably still thinks he's at his best, right?

Like, every fighter thinks until they're dead, basically. Mark Coleman still believes he could beat any man on this planet. This is a standard thing for fighters. But I don't think that Michael Chandler is the guy to come back against when you're not 100%. I mean, those guys that beat them, again, you're talking. They're the top of their game. Gagie Oliver and Poyer, you know, those guys have been at the top of the game for a while

and they're absolute savages. If Connor's not at the top of his game, he's in for a long fucking night because Michael Chandler is not going to make it a fun night for him. Yeah, and like I said, no one has gone into it outside of the one fight with Patricio Pitbull, no one has walked in a fight with Michael Chandler, not walked out with a couple of scars, little beat up, you know, bloody nose something. Like outside that one fight where he got knocked out and like a. minute and a half, which was a shocking result.

Outside of that, you do not walk out of a Michael Chandler fight without a few bumps and bruises. And, you know, that's going to be the question. Like, can he still take a punch? Can he take a kick? Can he, you know, deal with the takedown? Chandler's a freaking, you know, he's like the Tasmanian devil. He's going to come at you and you're going to get hit a couple times. And like I said, the reality is you don't, you don't typically get better with age,

but you really don't get better with age when you're coming off a really bad injury and three years off from already not looking at your best. Like, Connor did not look his best against Dustin in that room. Now, again, that's not a crazy. That's not terrible because Dustipore is a fucking savage. But you're not taking a huge step down in competition three years later and fighting Michael Chandler. You're fighting a guy who almost beat Dustin Porier lost, but still came very close to beating him.

Now three years later, you're fighting that guy. He's not coming back and fighting Dennis Siever. I'm sorry, Dennis Siever. Like, you're not Michael Chandler. He's not getting that fight. Those fights are not there for him now. So, yeah, like, you can't lie to yourself. and not say this is a risk.

Huge risk. Huge risk. It's going to be pretty, I'll tell you what, the press conference is going to be exciting because Chandler play right into the shit. You know, he loves it.

He's a W.W.E. guy himself, right? So I think this is going to be an exciting, awesome press conference. The fight, if you ask me, I mean,

I think it's going to be a great night for Chandler. I don't think it's going to be easy for him. I think Connor's going to give him some problems. It's going to touch him up. But it's hard to, like you said, said, it's just hard to imagine Connor being at his best. And I think you have to be at your best

to beat Michael Chandler. Yeah. And you wonder, like all the times everyone said, you're not coming back. You're not, we don't think we're going to see you again. Matt Brown, like, he got on you at one point. You know, he was like going back. Like, you wonder, like, is he coming back for the right reasons? Like, is he coming back because he loves it? And maybe he, I'm not saying he doesn't love it. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, like, is he doing it all because it's just him or is he doing it because he wants to prove some people wrong? He wants to say, hey, I am back. Like, I'm the real deal. Fighting's always been in my life.

All these people saying you can't, how hard is it to, you know, get up at six to the morning when you're sleeping on silk sheets? I want to prove all these people wrong. Is that the right reason to come back? I don't know. Like, is that really the reason to come back

and fight a fucking savage like Michael Chandler on day? Again, these, like, all I'm saying is I'm not saying any of that's correct. All I'm saying is you can't not ask these questions. No, that's exactly right. And, you know, the old saying is you go up the stairs in wooden shoes and you walk down and silk slippers. and right now it seems like Connor's walking down the stairs and silk slippers and Michael

Chandler's going to shove him down them stairs I think yeah if you're not careful you get carried down a fucking gurney down the stairs you might Michael Chandler the wrong way so that's it man like you know I think Michael Chandler's hungry and I think he's going to really embrace this fight and I mean he's been thinking about it for three years everything I know about Michael Chandler tells me he's probably been training these whole three years, right, throwing medicine balls and doing jumps and sprints. And, you know, he's kind of an avid athlete all around. So, you know, I bet he's been putting in the work and he's probably chopping at the

bit to get in there and fight Connor. Whereas, you know, if you look at Connor's motivation, it's probably more, you know, want to make a comeback, you know, whatever different things. But it's not a bloodthirsty hunger. Yeah. All I know is when this fights over, can we put Connor and Ryan Garcia in like a, can we put them in a room together to party? Can we just see that like on video? I want to see those two parties together. Like, that's the video. That would be a fun party. Yeah. The Hangover Four, mainly the Hangover Four, except it'll be Connor and Ryan Garcia together. Like, what's fuck happened last night? I don't know what happened last night. And then there's video proof of what happened last night. So yeah, we'll have a lot more to talk about that in the coming weeks. I was that's June 29th. We got UFC 301 next weekend. That's not the. greatest card in the world, but Josie Aldo's back. He's coming back from retirement out of kind of nowhere fighting Jonathan Martinez. And I know you know Jonathan from your days in Colorado.

So that's an interesting one. Obviously, flyway title fight at the top. Our old friend Anthony Smith is fighting on the card. So we'll talk about that more next week. And hopefully by next week, Matt Brown will be fully recovered and not feeling like crud from the sickness you got going on. So we appreciate you soldiering through and doing the show. Obviously, a big thank you, as always to everyone that tunes into the show. Matt, if people want to show you support, where can they check you out at?

I am immortal Twitter and Instagram, the immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. Check out the best creatine gummies in the world at try underscore create or the best coffee in the world at the Immortal Coffee. And you know what's funny real quick before you get out of here? I just got my haircut last week in my barbershop and they were putting in like a man spa in the back. They're putting up a room for a sauna and stuff and a cold plunge. And they're like, yeah, we're getting ready to set up for this and stuff. And that's full on advertising for your boys of Redwood. I was like, you know, my boy Matt Brown has like a sauna and a cold plunge.

at his house. It's like, you should talk to them. Like, you should talk to Redwood. They got the, they got the setup. They get you a sauna and a cold plunge.

I love it. Hook it up, bro. Yeah, see, I was advertising. I was advertising for you outside the podcast. Yeah,

I got to go on. I got to go on. I got to your barber. See him and hook him up. Yeah, dude. I was like, yeah, go there.

Like, I was like, he's got one to his fucking house. You put one right in here. They want to put, like, actually like a man spa in the back of the place

where you can go and, and have like a sauna and a cold plunge and get a haircut and all that kind of shit. I was like this. We're going to have to talk about this. Yeah, absolutely. So all right, folks, we appreciate you. Tuning in as always, obviously, as I said, check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. And, of course, over on the best website in the world, mhmafiting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon.

Martin. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. They should get a parade every time they block a novel threat and have streets, sandwiches, and babies named in their honor. But most of all, they deserve AI cybersecurity that can stop novel threats before they become breaches across email, clouds, networks, and more. DarkTrace is the cybersecurity defenders deserve and the one they need to defend beyond. Visit darktrace.com forward slash defenders for more information.

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