MMA Fighting - Fighter vs Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Conor McGregor vs. Michael Chandler at UFC White House and Ronda Rousey Possibly Making a Comeback?

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin discuss Dana White’s hesitancy to book Jon Jones at the upcoming White House card and reacting to Conor McGregor vs. Michael Chandler potentially headlining that show instead. Is McGregor’s comeback worthy of such a marquee spot on a once-in-a-lifetime fight card? Plus we discuss Ronda Rousey suddenly saying she’s falling in love with MMA all over again. Could Rousey be poised for a comeback of her own? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wi-Fi available to AeroPem members on equip flights Sponsored by Bell Conditions Apply see Air Canada.com You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we are back for the attack in another week where we do actually have a UFC event this weekend.

Gotta be honest. It's not great. It's a card from Perth. And I will say the main event is cool, Carlos Olberg, Dominic Reyes. That's a great fight. Undercard, not so much. But, you know, we got that. And, of course, we get UFC 320 next weekend.

So kind of like, someone's like, let's just look ahead. UFC 320 because it's actually a good car. It isn't that interesting how we have lived through the rise of the UFC and all we wanted was it for, you know, to be able to watch it easily on mainstream TV and then we got that. It was at first it was Fox and or actually I guess first it was like spike and fuel and and Fox and then and now, you know, now we're through the pay-per-view era and now it's kind of moving towards Netflix. But the one downside to everything is like,

I don't know if it's just me, but like there's less hype and like as we go forward on and on. Like it feels like it peaked out, right? It feels like we have lived through the peak of MMA. Am I wrong on that? I think it all kind of ebbs and flows, to be honest with you. Like I can't say that we've lived through the peak when they just signed a $7.7 billion deal with Paramount. Like that's, that's a ridiculous amount of money for the UFC. Like that that's like that's, like, if I would have told you.

did that back in like 2010 or 2009, they were going to sign a $7.7.7 billion, dude, you would have laughed in my face. Like, I would have laughed in your face. So, okay, but real quick, real quick, before we finish, so that's the, so we may not have reached the peak of the UFC's business, but UFC, or MMA, have we reached the peak? I mean, I don't, I don't know if I want to say peak of anything, because you just never know, right? Like, at the time it happened, no one really necessarily saw Connor McGregor coming. Like when he came in, no one could have predicted he was going to become who he became. Like when he came in day one, I think he debuted on like a UFC Sweden card or something random like that.

No one could have predicted he was going to become what he became. And like, you know, Dana White at one point's like, oh, we're never going to have women's MMA. And then Ronda Rousey became a massive star. So you just, I don't want to say Pete, you just never know what's going to happen. But I will say this. I was looking at the, it's like funny. Like, I think the biggest topic of conversation right now is the UFC, White House card, which is cool.

Like, it's a big deal. You can mock it all you want, but it's a big deal to be like, you know, they're not playing a fucking NFL game in the White House lawn, so it's pretty cool. But that's like June, July next year. That's what we're talking about right now. We got, we got Magamette and Alas Prairie fight next weekend. We got Marabda Wailashvili and Corey Sandhagan. We got Islam fighting Jack Della Madelaine.

We got Tom Aspinall defending his title. But the main crux of the conversation is the White House card, because that's kind of like the event everyone's excited and talking. talking about and that's still like basically 10 months away. So I think that's kind of where you talk about like the peak. Like we're not, it doesn't seem like there's like this buzz about the fights as much as there is like this one event that's still in the distant future. And well, that kind of makes me question some things too, right? With the, with the, how I said, the divide politically in the country.

how big is a white house car going to be surely it's going to be a gigantic car we know that right i mean it's going to have the best fights they can they can pull up you know it's going to be promoted to the death i mean it's at the white house is right like that's fucking amazing but there's a huge divide right now politically and we know what side the ufc is on right um for better or worse Does that affect, you know, the outcome of how big this is? Because I've always, I used to like when Dana would say we keep politics out of the UFC, right? And that's clearly not been the case in the past couple of years. I liked it better when it was that way.

I'm not, you know, anti-Trump. I'm not for Trump either. I'm not right, left, whatever, all that bullshit. I'm not getting into that. But like, that's kind of an elephant in the room, right? like they have absolutely chosen a side, is 50% of the nation not going to watch his card? You know, it's interesting.

I kind of, and I'm not certainly not defending, I agree with you in the sense of like, so kind of a two-part answer. One, I'll say that like, I don't agree with the idea that, like, you know, athletes shouldn't have an opinion. You're allowed to have an opinion. You can voice that opinion. Like, you know, when they said, like,

you know, the whole stupid thing with LeBron James, like shut up and dribble. Dude, he's, LeBron James. He's got a massive platform. He's a lot of speakers. Yeah, he's a lot of speakers. his mind? And I don't, you know, but do I, do I miss the days, like, when every post-fipe interview

wasn't, like, basically sucking up to a politician or trying to make some controversial statement about whatever's going on in the world? Like, no, I do kind of miss, like, when it was just like, let's talk about the fights or your next fight or the guy you're calling out. And now it seems like one out of every three is, you know, Donald Trump's the greatest or, you know, fuck immigrants or whatever. I don't know what I mean? Like, whatever the crazy topic of the week is.

So I do kind of miss that. But on the flip side to the whole half the country thing, I'll disagree slightly with this because like it or not, like Trump is a, you know, very divisive president, but he's also a very popular president. And I almost feel like it's the Howard Stern effect. Because I don't know if you ever watched that Howard Stern movie back in the day when they're like Howard Stern lovers listen to him for an hour and half. And he's like, how many, how about the haters?

They listen for two and a half hours. But if they hate him, why are they listening to him? and the most popular answer because they want to see what they'll say next. I feel like this White House card is going to be, there's going to be legit half the country watching because they're fans and Donald Trump told them to watch you if they're not UFC fans. And then the other half are going to be like, fuck Donald Trump, fuck the UFC, but I got to watch so I can make fun of it.

So like I feel like it's actually going to be a very popular card because it's one of those things where it's like everybody's going to watch just to see what it looks like. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you on that. I think you're spot on. It does kind of, it does kind of open your eyes, though, to write to the political one-sidedness that they have chosen here in the UFC, which, you know, whatever, you know, it kind of is what it is. You know, like, you know, I'm not politically one side of the other, so I don't really care necessarily that they chose a side.

But it's one of those things like I run a business, right? You know, I have some gyms and other businesses. And, like, we're very adamant about keeping those types of things. off of the mats and out of the gym. Because, like, I don't want to divide people, you know? I want money from liberals and conservatives. Right? I like, both of you pay me.

If I completely disagree with you, I still want your money. Like, you could be a gay LGBT, whatever, or, you know, I still want your money, motherfucker. But I get the feeling that the UFC, I don't know. I just wonder if it was, if they, kind of wanted it to be this way or if it's kind of ended up this way, uh, match organically, where they, they've kind of, um, that, you know, there's certainly a group of people out there that are not watching the UFC specifically because Dana White and Donald Trump's, you know,

relationship. Sure. I agree. No, you're absolutely right. And I mean, listen, it's just like anything else. Like I don't have to lie. I don't, like I said, I try to, like, I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum, and I just try to, like, keep that out of our conversations because it's just like, it's just going to get stupid and ugly and makes, you know, it's just like a lot of things. Like, you're never going to change somebody's mind by just arguing with them over, you know, a podcast or, you know, or over at a gym or something like that. So like whatever. But like it or or not right now, like the UFC picked the winning side. Like, you know what I mean? Like Donald Trump won. He's the president. They picked the winning side. So they're going to write.

that. And listen, part of the benefit of that is, like, they're getting a UFC card at the White House. There, you know, no one else is doing that. They're not bringing in anyone else to do it. That's the event they're going to have there. Not a boxing card, not a, you know, fucking polo match. Like, they're doing a UFC event. And that's a big deal. And also, like, you know, like, like I said, like, they're riding this wave. And, you know, just like, I'm not going to, we're not going to rehash the whole Allie acting we were talking about last week. We spent a lot of time on that. But, like, there's a reason why that got introduced now. on that political spectrum is like everybody that's in control

is basically following Donald Trump's lead. Well, if Donald Trump tells them to vote to approve the Ali Revival Act, whatever it's called, they're going to approve it because they know going against Trump is basically political suicide. So like they're winning right now. So I'm not saying I agree with it.

I'm not saying you should agree with it. I'm not saying you have to be a fan. But I'm just saying like they pick the winning side and now they're just riding that way. Now four years from now, who knows what's going to happen? But like I said, you may piss off enough people that four years from now some Democrat gets elected. Everything changes.

I have no idea. But right now, hey, like it or not, they picked the guy who's the president. Dana White's do very close friends with them. You know, do what you're going to do. I just personally, like, I can sit here right now and say, I think it's cool that they're doing a UFC White House car. Like, that is cool. Like, I'm not going to deny it. Like, that is a cool thing.

Like, it's not something I would ever imagine would have happened. No one could have predicted that. Am I looking forward to? Sure. It's kind of cool. Like, you know, like take the policy. politics out of it's kind of I've been to the White House it's cool like it's a cool experience I went to Washington DC it's all the sites it's cool but I don't need all

the other stuff I don't need you to sell me on who I should vote for or why I should believe in this cause or that cause let me just you know I can just think the White House thing is cool and leave it as that I think that's great that because I think that's one thing that's kind of lost but I got into a fairly heated argument with this guy one time when Donald Trump first got elected and you know I'm not Donald Trump fan. I'm also not a liberal, so I don't need to hear that bullshit from people. But, you know, when you got elected, I said, bro, you got to respect the factor. Like, this dude was the biggest underdog ever. Like, no one gave him a fucking chance. He gets into office,

wins the presidency. That's a fucking cool story, you know, fuck the politic part, you know. So on that same token, look, they're having fucking UFC fight at the White House. It's fucking cool, bro. Like, we should just enjoy it, right? Yeah, exactly. Like, I just, you know, like, I was like, I saw, like, I remember, you know, I'm a big Bengals fan and obviously I'm a big Joe Burrow guy, sadly, he's gone for the season. But I remember they were, a bunch of players were at the, at the EOC when President Trump was there. And they took photos of, like him, like, him, like, shaking hands with the president. Everyone was like, oh, my God, Joe Burroughs picking sides. He's in Trump. I'm like, what's he supposed to?

He's spit in his face? Like, what are you supposed to? Like, you can not, you can choose not to interact, but like, he's there. He walks up to shake your head. What are he supposed to? Like, kick him in the groin and like, what are you supposed to do in that moment? Like, he took a, he took a photo. Like, doesn't mean he agrees. Like, anybody who's, like, strong on politics, not anybody, but the most people that are strong on politics, like, just assume that everybody else is.

Yeah. Most of us are like, like, bro, it's a president. It's fucking cool. Like, just like, like, we don't agree with everything either, you know? Yeah, I just like, like, yeah. And, like, I'm probably not going to the UFC White House car because I don't really go to UFC events anymore. I kind of work from home, which is totally fine. I've been to a million events.

I've been to a million UFC shows. But, like, yeah, like, you know, like, it's cool. Like, it's a cool event. You don't have to agree politically or not, but it's cool to be there. And like I said, it's going to be a big deal. Here we are. Like I said, 10 months away. That's all we can talk about.

So, you know. I thought that you would be going there. I thought you'd definitely try to ride that train, go out there. Why not? Well, I mean, if they, if I get invited and, I'm going. I will absolutely go. I'm not going to turn down the opportunity. I just don't like, we have a guy who does all our video and stuff, and so he pretty much goes and I just kind of do you. I've said this a million times. People are like, why don't you go to UFC events

much anymore? And I was like, because I could get more done at home than being on the road trying to fight for Wi-Fi and spots to write. And like, I'm just like, I do, I would rather do it because I've done it, man. I was on the road for years and, you know, went to a ton of events. And yes, it is cool to be there. But, you know, I get more work done at home. Like, if I get the invite, like, hey, man, do you want to go cover the, of course I'd say yes. But, you know, I'm not like upset, good or bad that I wouldn't go. Like, if they invite me to go and they're like, hey, we want you to go and represent us at the White House, 100% I'm in. Now, I'm sure you've seen the renderings, right?

Which I don't know if it's real fake. I don't have no idea. But I don't, I didn't look real close, but I don't think there's a roof, right? No, there's like a lighting setup, like kind of like a lighting setup over the octagon. Now, it looks like the lighting setup is going to be big enough to kind of cover the octagon. So it's almost like, you know, I guess that's kind of a backup plan for rain or whatever. But, yeah, I mean, I guess just, I mean, I know Dana has always said, like, he doesn't like outdoor events for that reason. And, you know, I find outdoor younger in my career multiple times because, you know, that's, you know, these shitty little Joe Blow promoters.

That's kind of, you know, just an easy, low-hanging fruit thing to do, you know. I think I told you this story. Like I fought in a gas station parking lot once, right? And they pulled the cage up on a trailer, dropped it off and rolled out. You know, I fought what was in Cleveland. The flats, you know, they have an outdoor arena there. But it's covered. But I remember that, you know, they had a vinyl flooring.

And it was sprinkling outside and it was misting in. So, you know, I mean, it's a big covering, you know. So the mist must have moved pretty far. but even just the humidity itself made the cage so slippery. And I was fighting a jiu-jitsu guy who wanted to go to the ground. And I'm like trying to stand on my feet. And it's like an ice skating rink. So the UFC cage won't be like that quite like that.

But it's going to be interesting with the heat, right, because it's in July. So it's going to be pretty damn hot out there most likely. Potential sun, wind, rain. Yeah, I don't know how this is going to It might turn out to be perfect weather, right? I'll tell you this, it's funny. I went to one of the UFC fight for the troops cards that in Kentucky, and it was an awesome experience.

Like, one of the coolest experience in my life because it was like you're literally on an army base and you're in an army hanger watching the UFC fights. Like, it was cool. Now, I will say, as a reporter, it wasn't great because they had us on these little, like, tiny wooden chairs and like the chairs had like two slats so you're constantly like one ass cheek

hanging off the chair and you're sitting there for like nine hours but that's a minor complaint but like they had the hanger door open and it was pouring rain outside like pouring rain outside and the wind was coming through so they had the doors open because like that it was literally just like an army hanger

like a military hanger and it got so cold in there during the fights like it was like it was I can't remember when the day to the fight was but it was like normal weather like summertime, springtime, like not hot, not cold, but like normal weather. So, like, I didn't pack a coat or anything. And the wind is whipping through there so much. Like everyone on press, where everyone in the first couple of hours, we're freezing our

fucking asses off sitting there because they just had the doors open. And it was so cold, so cold in there. And like, no rain got in, like, but it was pouring rain outside. But I always remember that car, like, cool experience. But my God, it felt like it had to be like 30 degrees in that hangar with the wind whipping through. So, hey, it's the element. Did Tim Kennedy fight on that card?

I think I remember him talking about that experience. Yeah, it was cold as shit, man. It was so cold. And, yeah, and there was nowhere you could go to get warm. Like, you're literally just outdoor. Like, you're basically outdoors. It's indoors, but the giant, like, hangar doors are open. So, yeah, it was so cold.

So, I mean, I guess you just kind of play the odds and hope you pick a date where there's going to be no rain, but you can't really predict that. It's Washington, D.C. Like, it's not like Vegas where you're like, I know it's going to be no rain. and probably, you know, 100 degrees or 80 degrees on this day. Like, it's D.C. They get everything. So good luck. Yeah, that's going to be interesting.

See how that plays out. But the rentings look cool, though. I got to tell you. I thought it looked really cool. Just the whole outdoor thing. You know, Dana did it in Abu Dhabi, I believe, right? And, you know, it's not good, man. Like outdoors is you're taking a huge risk.

I mean, there's a few days of the year that it's going to be spot-on perfect. but usually not July 4th or whatever July, it's going to be July 4th, I think, right? Yeah, right around that time. It was going to be actually on July 4th, but around that weekend. So maybe like the weekend before or weekend after, depending on how the timing works out. But, yeah. I mean, D.C. gets kind of the same way there's Ohio, and you can speak to it here. Like, here is like one day at 70.

The next day it's 90 and now we're getting rain. Like, it just, that's the unpredictability of being the Midwest. Yeah, you don't know what you're getting. Yeah. that's going to be an interesting factor to play in. I wonder if they're going to have like a rain date or, you know, I don't know. I don't know. But for the fighters, it just sucks for the fighters more than anything, right?

For the promotion, you know, look, they're going to be okay. Trust me. The fighters, it could play a role. I've always thought it'd be cool to have a promotion that's like outdoors, like you got to deal with the weather, you're fighting in the grass, you know. I always thought that'd be cool with like fighting the rain, fighting the snow. But that's not what UFC is.

I think of freak show stuff all the time. You know, I like that idea. I just don't know that you want like Tom Aspinall versus John Jones on a slippery canvas. I don't know that's really that's really... Exactly, yeah, yeah. To that point, Matt, you know, we are, as I mentioned, we are talking so much about this White House card.

And I want to get your reaction to this because I'm sure you've seen, of course, you know, Connor has been nonstop. He's fighting, he's fighting Michael Chandler. He just recently said, I know I talked to Michael Chandler last week. He, of course, wants that fight badly. And Dana White has said,

listen, I think Connor's taking it serious, he's coming back. But the one thing I wanted to mention, I want to ask you, because Daniel Cormier came out and was like basically telling Dana White, like you've got to put John Jones on the card. Like, John Jones wants to fight on the card. You got to put him on the card. We need an American who has a great chance of winning. And I think John Jones might be your best bet.

And I'm sure you've heard Dana said, like, he has more faith in Connor than John in terms of betting. And I get it. Like, to a certain extent, you got to bet on a guy who's going to headline a card, and they're going to show up with the last thing you want for this first. and probably only ever White House guard is that the main event gets scrapped at the last minute because, you know, somebody gets busted for a DUI or Coke or whatever the fuck else is going on.

So I'm curious, Matt, because you wrote the script and stamped it. Connor's never fighting again. And you got me so on board with that. And here we are four years later. By the time the White House car would come around, it would be five years since Connor fought. But he is in the testing pool. He is training.

He did drop out of the presidential race in Ireland, which he wasn't going to win anyway, so that's really neither here nor there. He seemed serious. I know Michael Chandler said, I'm in. I want to go. Let's go. Let's book it. But I'm curious, if you're Dana White, do you actually have more faith in Connor

over John Jones showing up to fight on that White House card? I guess so, probably. Yeah. I mean, I think John Jones shows up to, you know, that's a tough one. I mean, the thing is. I guess the question is, who should you have more fake? And like, who should you have more really? Like, Connor or John?

I don't know. I guess that's like for Dana to decide. The thing, I guess with the thing with Connor is like, is it going to draw the interest that we think it would? Right? We would all talk about it and him fighting. But like Michael Chandler and Connor McGregor is a completely irrelevant fight. Right? Like that is like there's no relevance whatsoever.

Does nothing other than I guess sell tickets maybe. John Jones brings a lot to the table, right? You know, the goat and, you know, be fighting for a title, I'm sure, against Tom Aspinall. Like, assuming that Aspinall beats Cyril Gone, too. I mean, you know, this fight hasn't happened yet. You know, this is, that could be a game changer too, right? How he beats Cyril Gone if you beat him. And that's usually what happens, right?

Like, here we are talking about John Jones and watch Aspinall somehow go out and get wheel kick knocked out or something crazy like that. And, you know, so. And by the way. Don't think John Jones wouldn't come back and beat Cyril gone for a second time. Don't headling the White House card. But we're talking about Tom Aspinall. There's no guarantees this is going to be Tom Aspinall. Sorry, go ahead.

I just, yeah, I just know that's exactly right. Yeah. But I think there's, if you're Dana White, you're looking at it. You say, look, there is some relevance to John Jones fighting. And he's going to sell as many tickets as Connor McGregor. I think he would. I don't really know. I could be totally off on that.

You know, so if this gets posted and the conference. comments are all like tell me how big of a dumb ass I am. That's fine. But I think John Jones would do fine because I think the White House card, like it's going to be as big of a card it's going to be regardless of who's in there really. Obviously, you want the biggest star you can get. But then if you want an American, yeah, you got to go with John Jones. There's no one else that I could think of that would be legitimate enough, you know. But if you're going like the Connor McGregor route, you know, you're talking about kind of more or less irrelevant fights. You know, and you're going to bring in Ronda Rousey, I mean, now you've gotten two irrelevant fights.

You know, like you're literally just selling because of star power. And for us hardcore fans, long-term, hardcore, serious fans, that doesn't bring any interest to me at all. Now, John Jones fighting, particularly Tom Aspinall, assuming, again, he says he goes out and beats gone, that's interesting. You know. I like your point about the irrelevant fight because you're absolutely right. And listen, I'll push back in this regard. You know, we just saw an announcement, what was the two weeks ago, that Floyd Mayweather was going to fight Mike Tyson.

I mean, at this stage, like, what should we expect? You know what I mean? But you know people are going to tune in, right? You know people are going to watch. Now, how many people are actually going to pay to watch it? Whatever. I think, like, I think Jake Paul kind of figured it out with the Tyson thing, like putting it on Netflix because you're not actually trying to charge people.

an extra like $60, $80 to watch that fiasco, whereas, you know, most people probably have a Netflix or they have a friend who has a Netflix that can borrow $15 a month or $10 a month whatever you pay for Netflix. You can justify watching a dog shit fight like Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson when you're not paying $100 or whatever to watch it. So I think he got that. Just like the Tank Davis fight, like I don't care about that fight. It holds no relevancy.

It's an exhibition. Like it really means nothing, but it's on Netflix. So what's it really going to, outside it cost to me a couple hours. my life, what's it really going to cost me? And the UFC White House card, and we know it's going to be probably on CBS, so it's not going to be on pay-per-view. But it depends on what you're going for, because if you're just going for people tuning in to watch a fight, Connor is, I mean, Connor is Connor is kinder.

Like it or not, Connor's still a star. He still draws. But Connor is like one in four in his last five. Chandler's like two and five. You're right. Like, in terms of relevancy, like, Connor could go on Spark Chandler in the first round or Chandler could go on Spark Conner in the first round. it'll be a great celebration, big moment, great, whatever.

The winner still doesn't really go anywhere. Like, you're not going to give Connor a shot at Iliot-Tupori after that. You're not going to give Michael Chandler a shot at Ilya to Pori. It's like, it doesn't hold that kind of way. But in terms of like magnitude, yeah, there's a lot of people watching because it's Connor McGregor and it's Michael Chandler. But I guess the question is, what do you want out of this White House car? Do you want to just be a spectacle or do you want it to matter?

Because if you want it to matter, like I've said, I think Kayla Harrison needs to be on the card. She's the one American champion we have right now. Her and Amanda Nunes, I mean, come on. That's a perfect fight to put on that card. And she's in America two-time gold medal. She's the perfect person. But if you get Connor in there, and I know, I don't,

like, I know Kayla well enough to know that I don't think she's going to, like, bitch and moan that she's not the main event. But isn't that kind of disrespectfully you put her in the co-main as a championship fight? You got Connor and Chandler as the main event, a five-round, as you said, fight that really ultimately doesn't matter. It doesn't impact anything in terms of like, the winner is a champion or the winner wins a belt or the winner's the number one none of that's going to happen so it's like do you really want to put like cala and amanda

and i don't know i'm just making up things you're like you want to put islam versus like i don't know like you know whatever whatever welter shavkat you want but like are there going to be undercard to connor chandler like is that really is that really the statement you want to make right yeah and that's uh yeah i think you you you said it right you know do you want it to be a spectacle or do you want it to be the most important fight of the year, I guess? And, you know, being that it is probably a once-in-a-lifetime thing that'll ever happen, they're probably going to go the spectacle route, right? They want to be the biggest, most memorable card in history.

And, you know, I think I'm okay with that, right? The fact that, you know, Connor has got the UFC where it is, right? You got to give the respect where it's due. But, again, for us, like, it's not going to excite me, right? like I don't care to watch Connor and Chandler fight. Right? It's not that great to me, honestly. You know, if Porier wanted to come back, I think that'd be more exciting, right?

Connor and Porier. But, you know, Chandler fits the role too, though, right? He's the American, all-American kid and, you know, fighting this guy from Ireland. And we don't really know who would win that fight. You know, we don't really have a lot of confidence either way. You know, I don't think, I think it's kind of a pick-em fight. So I think it makes it a little bit interesting on that part. and, you know, all the Americans can get behind Chandler and, you know, Connor will love that, right?

So that'll go a long way with the media and the press and everything. So, yeah, I think in terms of the spectacle, yeah, it's got all the makings of that. But, you know, again, just for us, like, we're not going to care, right? We're just not going to care, you know, maybe, hopefully there's a good undercard that makes us care. It's funny because. In a perfect world, for me, in a perfect world is, you know, Ilya, you. smashes uh who's he fighting i'm i'm fucking pat it's either patty or or justin gauchy or yeah yeah it's not set yet i forgot um and it is on beats jack della madalina and then you know

we get those two together right i think that was probably um the biggest fight in the next year um meaningful that could have a lot of impact not really a white house fight i guess but yeah that's that it's i guess Yeah, because I'm talking about fights that matter that I want to see. It's hard to just talk about a spectacle show. Like, it doesn't bring a lot of interest to me. I'm sure to a lot of fans it will. It's funny because I think you're absolutely right in terms of like,

if Connor fights Chandler, we're all going to watch, of course. Like, we're just, you know, because it's the UFC and we're going to watch. And it's going to be cool because it's the White House. But we always, I always said, I had this criticism going back months ago to Lerone Murphy. Now, he's, of course, turned things around when he knocked out Aaron Pico the way he did. But I said, my biggest criticism of Lorone Murphy was he goes out and wins. He beats Josh Emmett. He has another five-round fight and wins.

But by Monday, I've forgotten about the fight. Like, I have zero memory of what he did now. I know he won, but it wasn't exciting. It wasn't a, you know, it was a crazy knockout. It wasn't even a crazy dominant performance. It was just kind of, yeah, 48, 47 or whatever, like, whatever, you know, just like, all right, you won. And my biggest criticism of Lauren Murphy was, you're doing nothing to make me care about you. two days later after your fight.

That's a bad thing. Now, to his credit, he turned me around with the Pico fight. Good for him. And I hope he gets a title shot now, by the way. But it's kind of like Connor, Chandler, if they fight,

like, it'll be cool in the moment. It's White House. It's going to get blown up that weekend. But by Monday, what will it really matter unless, like, Connor retires or Chandler retires? I'm talking like, just in terms of,

like, Connor knocks out Chandler, Chandler knocks out Connor. None of the extra stuff. No retirement. none of that. Just like one thing happens. There's really no storyline on Monday outside of like if Connor gets knocked out. Is he done or is Chandler done? Like that's really the only conversation.

We're not going to be talking about. Conner's back. Chandler's a winnable, a winnable fight. Just like I think Conner's a winnable fight for Chandler. So it's like, you're right. Like if John Jones goes out and sparks Tom Aspinall or Tom Aspinall goes on Sparks John Jones, we're going to be talking about that for months. We're going to be talking about that for weeks after.

So I think you may so but you're probably right, Matt. Like, let's be honest. Like, are they going to go for magnitude or spectacle? This feels spectacle. Yeah. And do they care if we talk about it Monday? If they get, you know, 20 million viewers or 10 million or whatever, you know, a crazy number of viewers. Do they really care if we talk about it Monday?

Probably not. They care. What they care about is that the construction worker that got, you know, goes to Monday to talk with his buddies about it. it. Not that us that, you know, talk about the sport, right? Not that we talk about it. They don't give a fuck. They're like, hey, those guys are at the bar talking about it Monday evening after work, right? And that's more meaningful to them, I think. I think my, like, I don't have a problem if Conner fights, Chandler. I think that's actually a fight to make. Like, if we're going to put Connor back in there, you cannot put him in there with Gagee or some other talk. You

got to put him in the guy, like, he could potentially beat. And I think Chandler could potentially beat him after five years away and everything. There's so many question marks around. that. But I guess my, I want to say criticism. My only question is, like, if that's the main event, are you going to put Kayla and Nunes is the co-main? Or, you know what I mean? Like, that's a little insulting to a champion to make, and I understand, they're probably not going to complain because they're on the White House card and they're going to get a big marquey spot, but it's almost like, because back in the day, like, remember, remember, the way Dana has always said, championships dictate main events. And that's why, like, when Pereira

fought Yeri and Aspinol fought Sergei Pavlovich. The reason why Alex was the main event was because that was for the real title. Tom was for the interim title, even though heavyweight. And his always thing was like the heavier weight class gets the main event. The one time it changed or when it did change was Connor, when Connor fought in a main event, but it was still a title fight. Like it was still title fight over another title fight. It's going to be a little weird if you got Connor fighting Chandler in the main event and

and then you've got like the women's ban to wait title or the men's band to wait you know what i mean it's real weird like the championship fights are leading to a non-title as you say kind of a relevant fight like that's a weird lineup that really is i didn't even think about that but that's you know what what choice do they have right if i'm dana i do the same thing you know even if it was a a regular pay-per-view card i mean you just have you can't not put connor as a main event that's all they're to it, right? You just can't. And he's not going to come back for a non-main event either, right? I mean, I've said he's not coming back anyway. That's the question, right? Is he going to? Is he going to, and what's it going to look like? You know, what weights the fight going to be at? What's it

going to look like? What is he going to look like? You know, and are they really going to try to win? You know, are they going to be a little pro wrestling issue? You know, I mean, I think they'll try to win, but, you know, it's going to be a little bit, they're going to try to put on spectacle too, right? They know the whole world is watching, you know. So, yeah, it's going to be funny, interesting to see how this plays out. And, yeah, you know, but I think, to go back to your original point, look, John Jones shows up for the White House card.

I think so. I agree. I think he does. But, and also to that point, like, they're not going to put John and Connor on the card. because John's not going to play co-main event of Connor. Come on, heavyweight title fight. You know, I mean, unless Alex Perey goes on Sparks, Magabana and Goliath next weekend, and then they can try to hype up John and Alex again.

Like they tried to do that before maybe. But, yeah, like, it feels like it's going to be one or the other. It's going to be Connor. It's going to be John. And I get it. Dana's not wrong when he says, like, John's had some incidences because I've been there. I remember UFC 200 when I was at the event, got called to a late. late-night press conference and John Jones tested positive and they had to pull him from the card.

I've lived through it before, so I know. So he's not wrong. Although I do think it's kind of funny. He keeps saying, like, Conner's always there. And I'm like, didn't he just drop out of a fight for a broken toe like a year ago? Are we just glossing over that fact? But I don't disagree, Dana, saying, like, you know, John has had dependability problems. Like he has.

Like it or not, the guy has had some issues getting to fights, usually not because of injury, although he did have that torn peck that pushed back to Steve a fight a year. but yeah I mean I kind of agree with you though when you say like they're probably going to choose spectacle over what matters most and like you know Connor spectacle like it or not like just like I said like

Jake Paul Mike Tyson or Jake Paul Tank Davis or you Boyd Mayweather Mike Tyson Spectacles sell you don't have to like it you don't have to love it but like Terrence Crawford fought Canelo Alvarez in one of the most meaningful boxing

matches in the last 20 years probably in terms of like magnitude of those guys and it got I mean it did good he got like whatever was like 41 million viewers that's impressive Jake Paul Mike Tyson got like 120 million like that's crazy you know what I'm saying like that's all that's all I'm saying like the more meaningful fight was clearly Terrence Crawford and cannot not even remotely the other one meant nothing like meant absolutely nothing and yet like 100 whatever 120 million people tuned into it so like it or not Connor fighting at the White House Donald Trump said three feet away. Michael Chandler is

Mr. America. It's going to sell. People are going to watch it. You don't have to like it, but people are going to watch it. Like what a position for Chandler to be in. He's two and five in his last seven fights. And like now he's looking at headlining

White House car, like once in a lifetime. Like, what an insane story that he has. Yeah, good for him, though. I mean, that's what happens. Good for him, yeah. You mentioned this in passing, and I want to bring this up anyways, because suddenly Rhonda Rousey is back in training again, and she's like, I'm falling in love with MMA again. Now, to be fair, she's not declaring

a comeback or anything like that, but when she starts posting videos and saying things like I've found my love for MMA again, immediately everyone's, you know, clock starts turning and saying, is Rhonda making a comeback? We had a discussion about Rhonda, whatever was like a year ago, year and a half ago, and we were just talking about like her perception publicly and like how she said like she couldn't show up at a UFC event now as you get booed out of the building and you made a great point and it blew up and it was very well like we want to love Rhonda like stop getting in your own way and let us just love you

run like be the beast you were when you're at your peak should the UFC even like even remotely consider a Rhonda Rousey comeback because I can't forget the year-long media tour selling her book where she kept talking about the concussion she had and how that basically ended her career. And, like, Vanderlai Silva is boxing this week. I don't know if he knew that.

He's boxing this weekend, some exhibition down in Brazil. And it's like, everyone just kind of forgot to, like, during the antitrust lawsuit, he literally came out and said, I have brain damage. Like, I have severe brain damage I'll never recover from. And now he's back in a boxing match. So I'm just curious, Matt, like, what is the interest? What is the perception of, like, do we even want Ronda Rousey back? Well, we know everybody who get behind bringing Ronda Rousey back.

as big of a star she was like yeah fuck yeah everybody would be all about it whether they love her or hate her right we'll watch 100% I just I don't think you can take I'd say the same thing with Connor and maybe even Chandler I think he's staying in the gym

but like you cannot just take the time off and expect to come back at a high level everybody else is working every day like this isn't I don't know 1998 anymore you know where you can kind of just be a fighter, you know, just in training camp and then chill and then come back, you know, and we're not even talking about that. We're talking about years off. Like, should get destroyed.

I mean, maybe they'll find a matchup for, you know, like a bench career type or something, you know. Like there's still those girls out there and those divisions, unfortunately. But, um, no, like you can't take that kind of time off. Like, there's, there's a point where you just got to say, I'm done. Like I've I've spent enough time away from the sport that coming back is not going to be a good option for me anymore. And Rhonda's past that point for sure. And she's got to know it too. I mean, the only question with her is like, you know, her just her ego, right?

Like she really thinks that she's the greatest fighter ever and she can probably take this time off and come back. But it doesn't work that way. You know, it just doesn't. You take a certain amount of time off. Like, it's over. Like, everybody else is training every day. You're going to get smashed in there. I'll say this.

Like, it's kind of funny because, like, Rhonda, like, Ronda has such a polarizing presence in our sport, like it or not. And I think that she, I actually weirdly think she doesn't get the credit she deserves for how big of a star she was. And I kind of forgot, like, her entire UFC career lasted, like, two years. It was really kind of a flash in the pan when you think about it. She came in, had that fight with Liz Karmus, and then, you know, a couple years later, she had the loss to Amanda Nunes, and she's gone. It was literally, like, three years or whatever.

It was a very short period of time by consideration of what you think about, like, all-time greats. But here's the weird thing, and I know people are going to knock me for saying, it's like, I, like, if you put her in there with Kayla Harrison, now, Kayla Harrison is smashing her, and it's going to get ugly in a hurry. It would end very, very badly for Ronda. And, but here's the thing. I don't know that like the divisions have just like gradually gotten that money. We talked about a lot lately. Like women's banterweight was in a dreadful position for a long time when Amanda retired. And you had Giuliana Pena and Raquel Pennington.

Who's good? But like I like here's the thing. I don't think the division has moved so far beyond where Ronda couldn't be competitive against certain people. But she's going to get smashed against the best people. So here's my suggestion. I can't believe I'm saying this, Matt. I'm going to say it.

Could you imagine a UFC White House card headlined by Connor McGregor versus Michael Chandler. The co-made event is Rhonda Rousey versus Misha Tate. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Misha, I love Misha and Misha Lizza. She should know I adore Misha. She's been, I've been covering Misha not in, I know this is bringing up a down moment in her career. I've been covering Misha since I went to a hook-and-shoot show in Evansville, Indiana,

when she got knocked out in that women's tournament, like, 15 years ago, whatever it was, something crazy like that. I love Misha. But Misha's in the tail in her career. She would be the first one to tell you that. Like, she's very much like one fight away from retirement herself. Rhonda Misha could still sell. It could still sell.

Yeah, that's the way. Yeah. I mean, if you're Dana White, you're seriously thinking about that. If Ronda's actually going to come back and, yeah, people will watch it. Again, spectacle, completely meaningless fight, doesn't do anything for any rankings or anything. But for a White House card, once in a lifetime card, yeah, you know, it's nostalgic and,

you know, there's a lot of bad blood there. I don't know, maybe they're cool now or something. I have no idea. But, you know, there will be blood, blah, blah, blah, blah. There will be bad blood, you know, for the fight and, you know, make for a great press tour and people get excited to watch it. So I think it makes perfect sense. Yeah, I think if you're like if you're going to go spectral, you've got to go full spectral.

What's bigger, Spatley? What year are we in at Connor and Connor and Rhonda be co-headlining a card together? I mean, we might as well bring Tito and Ken Shamrock, too. But like in reality, you're absolutely right. Like Rhonda, it's been eight years, over eight years, nine years. She had last five was in 2016. That's nine years ago. Wouldn't that, wouldn't it be cool if they kind of did that, though?

Like we got Tito and Ken Shamrock. We got Chuck Liddell and Who was I just thinking? Chuck Lidell and I don't know I guess Tito could just fight everybody. We saw Chuck and Dino a few years ago That was not good. True, true.

But, you know, just bring back like some of these old matches. You know, let's get, I don't know, let's get Coleman and Coleman will come in and fight again. Yeah, let's get Coleman and Dan Severin and or Don Fry. let's get Don Fry and Coleman and hell of him you know might as well just go full full on spectacle right yeah but in reality like as you said like I and I I don't dislike Rhonda I actually have always I've for many years had a great relationship with Rhonda I haven't spoken to Rhonda personally in like I don't know 10 years probably but uh yeah like I don't I don't like I don't love Connor coming

back after five years and Connor never totally left the sport like he was I mean he like it or not was training for Michael Chandler a year and a half ago, broke a toe, maybe the old Connor would have just said, screw it, I'll cut the toe off and I'll fight anyways, but he wasn't a full training camp getting ready to fight Michael Chandler a year and a half ago. So like, that's not, Rhonda hasn't had a meaningful training camp or fight

in almost a decade. It's hard to be it's been that long. 2016, like, I think my point is, like, you put Rhonda in there, you're just itching for trouble. Like you're itching for a bad result that's just going to shine a really, really bad light on the sport. I mean, she goes out and beats Misha Tate. It's a cool moment.

Like, oh, my God, Rhonda came back and won a fight. But if she goes out there, it gets absolutely smashed, that's like, they're going to be like, why did you do this? Like, why did you bring her back? And I just, I don't know, man. Like, Rhonda was a beast in her day, but her day was nine years ago. Her last, her last meaningful win was like a decade ago. I mean, that's a lot to come back from. Like, it's nostalgic, but I know she's not as old as Mike Tyson.

We're like, oh, Mike Tyson's got punching power. He looked awful against Jake Paul. He looked terrible against Jake Paul because he's 58. He's not supposed to look good. You know what a thought. Yeah, 58-year-old man, not looking good as a fighter. Oh, my God, what a shock. But, like, Rhonda hasn't had a meaningful win in a decade.

What do we expect? Yeah, yeah. begin when you talk about spectacle though i mean do they i guess when you kind of get down this road you have to ask do they care about the fights themselves right they don't know what's going to happen in the fights you know you got to give you phceeops about they they never really try to control the fights but we know that the production's going to be ridiculous the show's going to be awesome the lead up's going to be crazy do you just got they got to ask or you know we will ask, do they actually care about the actual fights?

And as hardcore fans, that's what we want to see is actual high level, best of the best fights. Does the UFC care about that part? And I don't know how much they've cared about that part for a while, to be honest. I mean, obviously they always want, you know, good fights. But that's kind of natural organic thing that happens in this sport, you know, like fights turn out good because this is a fucking tough sport. and it's a wild sport. But if they're making those types of matchups, that tells me they don't care about the actual fight itself.

And I understand that and that's okay. So take away the White House portion of it, in your opinion, and I think I know the answer to this, Ronda Rousey actually coming back. We're both kind of like thumbs down on this idea, right? Like take the White House. Take that fight card out of it. Rhonda potentially making a comeback.

We're completely against this idea, right? Like not even, I'm taking like not coming back for the white, just coming back in general. This is a bad idea. Well, I wasn't interested in watching her when she was fighting at her prime. So a comeback doesn't interest me personally. So, you know, take that for what it is. You know, make it up your own mind on it. I just don't know, like what we, like sometimes you got to let go, man.

Like, Rhonda hasn't fought and won in a decade. What are you expecting her to do? Like, what do you want out of this? Like, you know what I mean? Like, are you hoping that she comes back and she looks like Rhonda from, 2013 because that's not going to happen she's 38 had two kids like bright had serious concussion issues like what do you what do you what do you want on her it's like when like when people are doing fador coming back and doing bkFC like what do you want out of him dude like what do you

want out of this guy we don't need that but to be fair to ronda the style that she uses at her peak like is conducive towards an older coming back type of fighter like where her age and time gone would would still work for it's just a matter of whether she can get in judo toss so bitch and arm bar right but that work that's like for longevity and you know she's my point she's not like a reactive speed striker right where you'd be like okay like you know like like is he you know someone like him you're like bro, like when you, when those stuff, when those things start slowing down, your reaction is starting to start slowing down and you're getting hit a lot. Like, it's just not going to work anymore. But grapplers, you got like the Randy Cotaur types that, you know, fought at, what,

45 years old, I think, you know, and it's like, because that style is conducive for that, and if Rhonda goes back to that and doesn't think that she could beat Floyd Mayweather in a boxing match, then, you know, again, there's matchups out there that she could win. Yeah. I don't. disagree. I just, I'm almost in the mindset, like, I just don't know why or what we're hoping to get out of it. Because I don't think Rhonda's going to make a title run.

She ain't beating Kayla. She ain't beating Amanda Dunez. Like, that ain't going to have her. We just hoping she comes back and, like, wins one fight and she can ride off to the sunset saying she won. Is that really what we're hoping for? Like, I'm not knocking Misha Tate, but she beats Misha Tate for a third time. What are we going to celebrate that?

Say, oh, Rhonda came back. What a great moment? Like, I just don't know what we want out of it, you know? Like, I'm with you. I am all about meaningful fights that give us purpose. And while I do appreciate when guys or girls have like a retirement fight or they don't have one last, you know, like Dustin Porre, he had the moment New Orleans, cool moment, didn't go his way. Obviously, Max beat him pretty thoroughly in that fight.

But, you know, I was cool with that. It was cool moment. Dustin earned that moment. But Dustin was also one fight removed from fighting for the title. He wasn't sitting on the sidelines for eight years. having kids and not fighting and then just like, you know what? Fuck it.

I'm going to come back for one more. Like, I just don't know what we're expecting if Ronda actually did it. Like, I like Ronda. I don't want to see Ronda get hurt and I don't know what you're expecting. Like, are you hoping she comes back and makes it around the belt?

Because that ain't happening. So what do you want out of it? Like, what are you hoping for? Yeah, they're hoping for a spectacle, bro. You know, and that's probably, like you said, that's probably the route they're going to go. Good for them. We're all going to watch.

Love it or hate it. we're all going to be watching. How hilarious? I'm not, I'm not mocking, but how hilarious would it be? You don't see White House cars headline by Connor McGregor

and Ronda Rousey in 20206. That's a little wild to contemplate. Yeah, and it's not too far out of the question, right? I mean, if they're going that route, shouldn't they just go ahead

and book Elon versus Mark Zuckerberg? Shouldn't that be like the triple threat co-main of it? Don't put it past the UFC, bro. I mean, Mark and Elon are both boys with Trump now. Like maybe they want to throw down and put on a little spectacle in there too.

Yeah. Hey, I'm not putting it past anything on this card, brother. We're a long ways off. So there's a lot of things that could happen between now and then. You know, John Jones could still go to jail between now and then, right? That's a lot of days for him to stay out of trouble.

This is, we're talking about record long streaks here. So who knows what's going to happen. And, you know, I, again, I think I'm with you, man. We're going to hope for the best and hope that we get some meaningful fights, even if they're on the undercard and they make the main event spectacles and, you know, Maine and co.

But you got to think on the, at least on the undercard, they're going to put some meaningful fights in there that everybody wants to see. And, you know, I think the, the only gauge we have is like UFC 100, 200 and 300, right? Because that's the one they always pull out all the stops for, right? they haven't been showstoppers necessarily right there's i don't remember any of those where i was

like damn i can't believe they did that hell yeah this is awesome you know i mean they did bring back brock lesnar for ufc 200s they did do that yeah yeah which again is spectacle yeah right yeah yeah yeah right so brock is back in wrestling they're going to pull off a brocklesner fight You never know. I wouldn't put it past them again. I would not put it past them. And that's, you know, that's kind of what we got to base the history on. And based on that history, there's going to be more spectacle in the top of the card

and maybe, you know, some more meaningful ones at the bottom of the card. Brock Leznor versus John Jones. Tell me the OSU wouldn't book that tomorrow. They would book that immediately. How they might even get Gable Stevenson by then. Who knows? It's funny. What cracks me up is like all the fight.

right now are like all jockeying for position like I want to be on the White House card I want to be on the White House card and imagine I'm going to be on the White House card and then the main event is Conn McGregor co-made events Rhonda Rousey and the third fight is Brocklist. Talk about talking about like oh man that's that's that's an interesting build but you know what for a card like this I wouldn't put anything past them I wouldn't put not a single thing past them yeah I mean they might even bring back CM Punk for this card you know it's hard to tell See, and Punk versus Matt Brown. There's the, there's the, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the featured fight on the main card right there. I mean, that, that's nice. Like, I don't have to get in shape for that, you know, you got to, got to make weight, but, like, I don't really have to do anything. So, I can just continue my life the way it is and play guitar every day and then just show up and win. That'd be great.

Yeah, it'd be cool. Watch, you could literally see a murder on live television. I don't know that's really what the UFC wants, though, just like, see him punk got murdered on live television. that when Matt Brown dropped an elbow on his head and he just fell out. Oops. Murder on television. The great headline.

All right. We are getting back into really meaningful fights next week. And Alex Pera, Magamette Ankaliav, Marabdoisville, Corey Sanhagan. So we'll talk to UFC 320 next week. And obviously, we'll get, you know, we got another pay-per-view. We got Tom Aspenol at the end of the month.

So we're getting into some fights. We didn't have a paper view in September. So it's kind of a weird month. Like, we didn't have, like, a big fight to look forward to this. month. We are moving into that next week. Matt, people want to check you out. People want to support you. Where can they go? What can they do? Brother, I am the immortal Instagram and Twitter.

The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. And obviously, we'll be back. We're going to do our official preview and prediction next week. We'll see if, you know, Alex Perey can pull off the return and get his vengeance or Magermanic Goliath submits himself as champion. And just Corey Sandhagan have a chance? Because he's a pretty big underdog against Marabda Wiles. Really, does he have a chance to pull that off? So we'll do that next weekend.

As always, as always, want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes in. Make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. And, of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Unwrap Holiday Magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you.

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