MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Conor McGregor’s Anti-Doping Suspension, What’s Next for Charles Oliveira

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin discuss the news that Conor McGregor was suspended for 18 months under a violation of the UFC’s anti-doping policy but he’ll still be cleared in time for the upcoming White House card. Brown details how McGregor’s suspension is actually a symptom of a bigger problem with the UFC currently. We’ll also discuss Charles Oliveira’s big win over Mateusz Gamrot and what’s next for him and the rest of the top lightweights in the UFC plus much more. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca.com slash Black Friday. IKEA, bring home to life. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. To the fighter versus the writer, I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And before we recorded tonight, Matt, we had to spend about 20 minutes talking about metal music, as you and I do from time to time. And I'm curious, Matt, we talk about metal off air a lot. I'm just curious.

We were just talking about concerts and shows coming to Columbus, things like that. Is there a band you've never seen that you would love to see? Like, in terms of like, if there was one band that could, like, come to town and you'd be like, I got to see that band. And who is it? Because you've seen a lot of shows. I've seen a lot of shows. I just mentioned 9-inch Nails is coming, and they're like one of my all-time favorite bands.

I've never seen them live. So, of course, I got tickets. Is there a band out there you've never seen that you're like, I got to see them at some point? Yeah, there's probably more than one, to be honest. First one, it comes to mind because we were just talking about it, it was Musuga. Yeah.

That's an absolute must-see at some point before they retire or do whatever they do. You know, it's not possible, I don't think. but you know what I would love to see is the original Sepulterra. Oh, yeah. That would be the one. If I could just pick one in history, it'd probably be the original Sepulterra,

like a Rise or KSAD era. Yeah. You know, it's crazy about that. So I think I mentioned on the, I may have mentioned this on the show, Soulfly, who is, you know, obviously the new band after they broke up, you know, Submatera broke up.

Their new album is called Chama. They named it after Alex Pereira because he walks out. Oh, did that? I didn't know that. He walks out to Sempeltura. He walks out to I'm sorry from Sempeltore. That's always his walkout song.

And Matt Cavalera was so, like he said, oh, that's so cool. So the name of the new Soul Fly album that's coming out, either late in edition or early next year, it's called Chama. It's in tribute to Alex Pereira. And our guy, Guillermo Cruz, the Brazilian Bees, the Brazilian legend. I had told him about it. And I did a little story about it. He's like, oh. And he reached out because Max is Brazilian, of course.

He reached out. And Max's wife got back to him and said, sure. Like, he'll do it. So he's like, do you mind doing it by email? And he's like, all right. So he sends in the questions. She sends him a handwritten letter from Max Cavalera writing down his answers to the questions about Alex and stuff. And I was like, you've got to get that framed, right?

And he's like, oh, yeah, I'm getting it framed. Like, it's literally just like his wife, like, typed out the questions on a piece of paper. And Max literally hand wrote the answers in Portuguese. And I was like, that's so fucking cool. I was like, dude, I would frame that immediately. yeah that's pretty cool man i didn't know with i guess that the album hasn't come back i'd never i hadn't heard that man that's really cool yeah it comes out i want to say maybe it's come out in november because i got i got a pre-order for vinyl and it said chalman i was like that can't be

a mistake and then i looked it up and sure enough like he confirmed like he loved that alex always walks out to that to their song at sari that's always his walkout song's been his walkout song since he got to d oc and he's like i just wanted to he's like i love that energy I love that Alex walks out to Sepaltura, so I wanted to honor him, so their new album is called Chamba. I love that, bro. Well, I've walked out to Seppletor before, too, so. Where are you at, Max? Yeah, right?

No, that's really cool, man. That's funny because Soulfly was actually the first concert that I ever went to. Really? Yeah, it was in Dayton, Ohio. It was Sof, Morbid Angel, Soulfly, Pantera headlining. Nice. and Benning the Steel Tour. And I would say to this day, I mean, it's hard to...

Hair Arena? Hair Arena, bro. And I think it's probably hard to deny it to this day that that was the best show that I've ever been to. And it's hard to say because it was the first show, right? And you don't really know what to expect and everything. And, I mean, I was on all kinds of drugs, man. I was speeding out to the max.

But, you know, like, I don't remember... So the one thing I remember is walking in, you know, you kind of go through a tunnel to get to the floor and everything. And I walk through the tunnel. As I'm looking through the tunnel, I see people's feet in the air, you know, through the crowd, like over the mosh pit. There's literally feet in the air. And I was like, dude, what the fuck am I in for? And of course, we go straight to the front. And it still, I mean, I went to tons of shows when I was a kid, not so much anymore.

But I would go to the mosh pit or, you know, down as close as you can every time. and I don't ever remember feeling the way I felt that night where I couldn't breathe. Like people were pushing so hard to the front. I mean, I'm just getting smashed. And I barely even enjoyed the show. But at the same time, I mean, it's the energy, you know. And, like, you know, they had tons of pyro

and you can feel the flames. And I was sweating and, you know, getting bruised up and moshing. And, you know, man, what a great time I was. I've never been a huge Mosh Pit guy but I did get into a few and I always remember I'm not even a big

I'm not even a huge fan of the guys but Slayer played at Bogart's Not a huge fan of Slayer I like so I don't know if we can be friends bro No I like so I'm just saying Like they're not a band

I listen to like on a daily basis Like I like Slayer But like I don't listen to them every day They're like They're like I have to be in a certain mood To listen to Slayer But they play to Bogarts And if you've never been to Bogart's

It's like a midsize club Like I don't know Like two three thousand people It's not like a huge. It's a staple of Cincinnati. And I went there to see Slayer and it was sold out. And they clearly oversold, dude, the arena. And so Slayer comes on and I'm in the back. And I like, when I'm going to do Mosh, you have to work my way in and work my way out because I can't be into Mosh the entire time, dude. Like, I actually like to enjoy the show. The Mosh pit for

Slayer was so big that you could not avoid it. Like, literally, you could be back by the fucking sound booths. And there'd be ways you'd be kind of pulled into the That's how big to mind. I've never seen a mosh pit like that in my life where like the entire crowd. Like usually it's just like a certain section. For Slayer it was the entire arena and I was like, well, I guess I'm just going to mosh this entire show because you couldn't avoid it. Did you know Slayer had a tour where they lost money because their fans tore up the arena so much? I heard that story. Like they actually lost money. They sold out every arena and their fans did so much damage that they ended up losing money on the tour.

I think it was either, it was one of the 80s tours. It was either South of Heaven or rain and blood, but I mean, that's fucking epic, right? Yeah, that's crazy. I think the last time I saw Slayer was, I'm pretty sure I saw you at the show is that Sonic Temple when they opened because it was them and then I think it was Avenged Seventh 4 right after them at Sonic Temple a couple years ago. I was out. I think you were at that show too.

Yeah, I actually forgot about that. Yeah. Like, you know, those outdoor shows to me just, they're just not the same, man. I don't know. You got to be so close for it to be good. And when you're close, you're, you can't get out of the Mosh pit and you're getting pushed and shoved. And, you know, when I was young, I used to like that stuff when I was angry. And now I'm not angry at all unless you fucking push me, you know, or touch me or something.

Like, okay, now I'm fucking angry and I'm not going to push you back gently, motherfucker. That would be the most terrifying mosh pit ever to like start like running around and you just run to fucking Matt Brown. And then the mosh pit. Like, oh, shit. This has gone horribly wrong. This has gone horribly wrong. It's not what you expected. It's just elbows everywhere now.

But, you know, I got to see them in, what was that? 2010, I want to say, maybe 11. And my, I had a hookup and we got, we were backstage watching from, uh, behind the whole time. And they were on tour with Megadeth, by the way, which is cool. So Megadeth, that was the year they played Rust and Peace all the way through. That's all I remember. They just played it straight through and that was like their whole set.

But I thought it was so cool being backstage with Slayer, you know, one of my favorite bands ever. You know, I'm the opposite of you. Like I'm a fucking Slayer fanatic. Or I was a Slayer fanatic. You know, I'm a little older and I still love them. But, you know, what was interesting about it, though, was, you know, they come offstage. And I believe it was Tom Areas birthday. Might have been someone else's I don't remember exactly.

And, you know, what I expected was these guys to come off stage and start, you know, praising Satan and, like, slaughtering human, like babies or some shit. And I just seen him up there, like with his family, you know, like singing happy birthday to him. I was like, I was like, what do you fuck his Slayer? Like, you don't sing happy birthday when you're in Slayer. That's hilarious. Yeah, just like. But it was kind of cool on one side because it can.

kind of humanized them too i was like oh wait like these are just fucking regular people right but at the same time i you know they'll never meet your idols man because i was like i was like these guys aren't you know these aren't satan this like what the fuck yeah i just remember when i saw them at sonic temple it was cool because i hadn't seen them since probably that bogart show it's been years and i saw them and they play rain and blood and it was immediately like oh my god like my my youth all over again so it was just cool you know it's an outdoor show and i'm not a big outdoor show guy but i was like that was cool just like because I knew they were playing and I was like I had to get there because I had to

like I said I hadn't seen Slayer since God like I said I was early 2000s when I saw him like as a kid and then like you know seeing them years later I was like well I have to see them again because Slayer breaks up and gets back together like every two years like they break up and they're like we're done and then they get back together and do another tour and yeah so like that's kind of like Slayer's thing

like every time they do like a final tour I'm like man I need to go see him and then they just come back and play again like two years yeah that's Slayer yeah but he's it you know the last excuse me the last slip-not show I went to kind of cracked me up though

because you know tell me if I'm wrong you know you go to shows pretty regular and I went to this slip-knot show I love slip-knot I mean they're fucking heaviest shit right and I remember seeing them at Ozfest younger

and the crap I mean crazy intense mosh pits you know and just violent as fuck then I watched this maybe last year or the year before I went and watched and I'm looking at there's a bunch of teenagers that are like kind of softly moshed and like trying to mosh and I was like bro like our generation is was our generation the last of the hardcore moshers or am I just getting old or did I

overblow the amount of moshing that we were actually doing so it's funny you say that so I remember when I was a kid hearing about down in Kentucky, they were doing something called razor pits. Do you remember hearing about this where people were like carrying razor blades? They were going crazy. Like, because I remember a show in Cincinnati one time

when Earth Crisis, huge straight-edge band. They were playing with Sepulter of all things, which is a weird combination. They were playing at a show, God, what was the name of that venue in Cincinnati that was down by the riverfront? You know what I'm talking about? Do you remember that venue down there?

I don't think it's there anymore. It was a video down by the riverfront Cincinnati, and they were playing. It was Earth Crisis in Sempeltura, and I went to see Sepaltura. I'm not, I wasn't opposed to Earth Crisis. I just wasn't a big fan. And there were so many fights in the Mosh Pit because you had the straight-edge kids and like the metal heads. Just, I mean, but it was just like I couldn't get near the Mosh Pit because like every, every collision was like just started doing through punches. It was so bad.

But like I went to this show in Columbus, I don't know, four or five months ago, band I like called Barry Tamas. They're a British metal band heavy very heavy and they did a mosh pit and it wasn't really a mosh pit The kids were just running in circles and occasionally bumping into each other but like I was like this looks like exercise This doesn't he's looking like a mosh pit like you're just running around like I was like where's the like head banging and like you used to when we used to do mosh pitting we would run into each other knock the shit out of each other and then help each other up Help each other up yeah yeah that was the mosh pit thing like they were just like running in circle that's what I I'm saying, bro. Especially the Slayer Mosh pits back in the day. I mean, my Lord.

I mean, those things, like, it was bad, man. Like, especially, you know, I went to a Slayer show once, and they had chairs there. Oh, God. They had seating, like, the actual foldable chairs. I was like, what the fuck are you guys doing?

And, like, people are, I mean, of course, like, people are picking up chairs and throwing them. I was like, what did you guys expect? Yeah, like, that Slayer show, I went to her the entire place turned into a mosh pit. My only hope is like, I need to leave her without a concussion. Like that was all I did. I just, I didn't want to leave with a concussion.

I was like, there's probably a good chance that we get smacked in the head. I'm going to hurt myself somehow. But like, as long as I could leave without a concussion, I'll be good. But like, like, they were violent mosh pits, dude. Like, like it was, there was no joke, dude. You would get the absolute shit knocked out of you in there and still enjoy the show. The only ones I've seen comparable to our generation is Lamb of God. And I'm betting slaughtered to prevail.

probably got some pretty nasty mosh bits and knock loose i saw i saw i saw knock loose open for motionless and white last year actually and it was a good show yeah they got like they're like that's like their thing is like let's mosh you know what i mean like that's literally their thing so they they better be pretty damn good if that's your thing right it's like it's not like it's not like they're right and fucking you know dream theater style technical music you know they're like I actually watched an interview the other day with one of the guitar players and he was talking about like how simple their show is

he's like dude we're just try to like really fuck the tone up he's like I put like a false pedal in front of an overdrive in front of the high gain amp and he's like I just wanted to sound dirty as hell I was like I was like even like focusing on your technique at all or just well it's not because the one to Slaughter Slaughter

is that the nickname he goes by or whatever Alex Alex is a terrible Alex is a terrible that's what is yeah and he's a a bare knuckle fighter so like of course he's He's going to invite violence in his shows. Yeah, they're great, man. Like, I've seen them at incarceration here. And they're fucking great, man. Like, those guys, I'm not like, I don't like to sit around, listen to their music because I don't think it's that great.

But when you see them live, like the energy that they bring and the way that it translates live, you know, there's some bands like they're built for that. They're built for the live show. And there's some, you know, you kind of want to listen and delve into it. But there's shit's 100% for live to me. Yeah, I understand that totally. So we should probably, speaking of some fights, we did, we do, we need to talk about some fighting. And we mentioned Sepuletura and Brazil. And this last weekend in Brazil, Charles Oliver got a big winner of Matush Gamrod.

People who are riding off Charles Oliver were a little premature. Everyone's like, oh, you know, time might have passed him by. He got knocked out pretty hard by the elite to Port, and he goes out there and just pretty much malls Gamrod. I mean, Gamrod took him down and the Nidja was just throwing up submission after submission eventually caught him in the second round with that rear naked choke. And, uh, boy, I'd tell you what, when you see a guy go to his home country and get that kind of evasion, it's like, it's so fun to see how much of a superstar out, Charles Olivari is in Brazil.

Like, man, he is just beloved by Brazil. And he's earned every bit of it, man. You know, I've seen the stats, you know, the most finishes. I don't even remember all the stats. Most bonuses. Most bonuses now? Yeah, most submissions, I think, or second most, because one of them was second most, one of the stats. But, yeah, the guys deserved earned every bit of it.

You know, he's had hard times, too, right? I remember when he came in the UFC? Like, you know, he was considered a quitter. And I was backstage with him one time, one of the fights that he, you know, I'm not going to say that he quit, but, you know, one of those fights where people were calling him a quitter and, you know, and he was beat up backstage, you know, very, because that's one of the things people don't know about. backstage is the amount of emotions you got to deal with you know when you're the first guy going out it's not so bad right everybody's fired up everybody's getting warm because you're sharing the

locker room with three or four other people and you know what always kind of i wouldn't say it fuck with me but like you know you feel the energy when these teams come back from the fight you know you see guys coming back bloodied all to hell you know and they're you know some people are crying some people are just sad, they're quiet, you know, everybody's down. That brings the energy of the room down, right? And then the next guy comes back and they won, everybody's fucking cheering and yelling and, you know, or if they don't come back, then you're like, okay, he's out doing interviews and stuff, right? You know, you're like, okay, we know what happened there.

Or, you know, you see it on the screen, too, if you're paying attention. But that energy they bring back, and sometimes it kind of is a rude awakening into what you're about to do. You know, you see guys come back with their nose is fucked up and bloodied up and you're like, dude, like, I'm about to go do this shit. Are you sure?

But anyway, yeah, Charles, he's earned every fucking bit of that, man. You know, that guy, he is an absolute legend. And, you know, I think it's just cool that he wasn't, I don't think anybody picked him to be the guy that he is. You know, I think he really, kind of bit down on his mouthpiece throughout his career and kept fighting on and fighting forward and getting better all the time.

Charles, for the longest time, Charles Olivera always struck me as the guy who was a lot of potential that was just not fully realized. You know, like, you see him in there and you're like, man, this guy's so talented. But then he would run into those kind of brickball situations where he'd get caught, he'd get tired, he missed weight, you know, those kind of things. You're like, ah, he's going to be, you know, he's a good fighter, but he's just never going to reach that next peak. Then he moved to Lightweight and he had that one loss to Paul Felder and then he just went on a run, man.

It's almost like it was almost like he, I don't know if he actually went to a psychologist, but almost like he just got his head right and he just started tearing through people. Now he did, you know, he did miss weight and that cost him the title when he fought Justin Gachey. And then he had obviously had that loss to Islam. But yeah, dude, he's just a legend, man. He's been around forever. And I've only met Charles a couple of times. Kind of the same thing with Jose Alda, who officially retired over the weekend, laid down his gloves,

which is a really cool moment. I'm glad the UFC gave him that. was pretty awesome. But I remember when I met Jose Alder, too, and, like, just like the nicest guys in the world. Like, you know, they're such savages in the cage. And I remember, I remember meeting Charles backstage. I want to say it was when he fought Nick Lince.

I think he fought Nick Lentz, like nine times. But he bought Nick Lins one of those times. I think he was in Chicago. And he come backstage, and he had his guy with him to do translations. And he's wearing glasses. And he has, like, a backpack with him. I said, he looked like a student. Like, he just looked like a nerdy student.

I was like, it's, and he had just, and he had just. just like savagely beat down the guy. Like I think he'd be, I did get knocked out. Nick, Nick Lins that night, I was interviewing him backstage. And just like the nicest, most like soft-spoken. Like just, you know, you would never in a million years. And now he's all, he's got a ton of tattoos now and stuff. So he looks, I guess looks the part more now that he does.

He has like neck tattoos and stuff. But at the time, he didn't. Like, if you didn't know he was a fighter, you'd be like, oh, yeah, he's a college student. Like, he's just, he's looking at a college student. And it's just the nicest guy. And the same thing with Aldo, like, incredibly nice guy. They go into cage and they're just savages. And I'll still say to this day, you know, Charles is one of my top favorites of all time, man.

And I've said that for a long time, even, you know, the wins and losses. And I think a lot of times people pick their favorites, not that, you know, it really matters, right? But, you know, based off because they win a lot, right? Like, that's who they, that's who everybody wants to be their favorite, right? The winner. Charles, man, I love the way he fights, win or lose, man. He goes out on his shield every time he fights hard. And I love his style, man.

He's always going for the finish, you know, just from beginning to end. He's looking for, in a technical way, too, right? Like, you know, he really, like, I mean, he's extremely technical, but he's going for something all the time. And I know he has, like, a ton of the records with submissions, but I think people discount how good he is on the feet. Like, I remember, like, he knocked down Justin Gachie. He choked him out, finished him with strikes,

or finish him with choke, but he knocked him down with strikes. Like, he's underrated as a striker. He's just, he's a guy who's like, if you see Charles Olivera in there, you know, you're going to get entertained. You know, like, it's just guaranteed. Like, you know, he's got that kind of style where he's going to go out of their balls to wall for five rounds, three rounds, whatever it is, and it's going to be fun to watch.

And by the way, he beat Mattoe. And credit to Garamara. Garamara stepped on a short notice and saved an event, good for him. I like, I like Matush. He's a really, really nice guy as well. I've talked to him for a lot of years. Super nice guy, very talented. and he got caught it is what it is.

But afterwards, Charles just made the UFC's matchmaker's job the easiest thing ever. How do you not book Charles versus Max Holloway next year? That is, just sign it. Just do it now. Like, I don't know what the time is going to be. I don't know where it's going to. Just sign it right now. That is 1,000 percent of fight.

Yeah, and it sounds like that's going to be the fight, right? As Charles called out Max and Max replied and said he's in. So, yeah, like you said, that's a no-brainer. Yeah, because if you're Max, and even Charles, you're kind of in a tough spot because Max should be Desta Porier and he already has a winner with Justin Gaichi, and now we know Arm and Saruki is fighting Dan Hooker in November. It looks like it's going to be Ilya and Patty in January is from what I'm hearing is the first Paramount event, which, you know, makes sense. I know that leaves that leaves Gish. Did you call that?

I did. I did call that. I've had that in mind. But Gachie is the odd man out, but he's already fought and lost to Max. He already fought and lost to Lever. says like can't really, it doesn't really make sense to rebook those. Max and Olivares the perfect fight to make. Like, it's the perfect matchup with who's out there and both on good wins.

Max is coming off the winner with Dustin, Charles over Gamrod. Just book it, man. And what? I mean, good God, how's that not going to be a fucking awesome fight? Yeah, man. It's always a great thing when it works out perfect for the matchmakers. It's like, it's just a no-brainer. And it's easy.

And the fans are going to be excited for that. So that's good. The only thing is, man, you know, I think it just sucks for Gamrod. You know, I think he's one of those guys who hasn't tapped into his full potential yet either. You know, he's had some tough losses. And I just think he's more skilled than what he's kind of shown, you know. Yeah, he, you know, this is the first time his career has ever been finished, which, you know, that is what it is. I mean, it's going to happen.

But, yeah, like when he came in the UFC day one, I was, I mean, this guy's going to be a problem. And he lost that split decision in his first fight, which was kind of surprising. So he went on. No, it was a Coutelazze, Gurm Coutelazze, remember that guy. And then he lost, he had a good run, and he lost to Binaldairoush, and then he had a good run again. He lost to Dan Hooker, and obviously he had a couple in a row again, and he lost Olavera. He just, it seems like he's kind of like struggled. Did he not fight Syracian?

I don't think so. I have to look at his record. I don't think he fought Sarukin. He fought Daryush, when Daryush was on that run, and Darius beat him. But, yeah, it's just like, he's a lot. always had that like he's always like one step away you know what i mean he's always like one step away from taking the next the next level but he's a very good fighter and i like him a lot he's got a great team you know mike brown's his head coach and i love mike um but yeah i mean listen dude there's no shame you're

stepping into a buzz song as charles oliver like that's gonna happen yeah and again you kind of just never know um yeah he fought sarukin yeah i just looked it up real quick right before der ruch yeah um he beat sirruc in oh that's right that's right they had that great main event That's right. That's right. He had a win over Suruki, and that's right. Yeah, that was a fight of the night. Yeah, I do remember that one now.

That's right. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Scambles galore. I remember, yeah, it was just like, like level 10 wrestling scrambles just constantly. That's right. Yeah, that was a fight of the night. That was an incredible fight. And then it looked like he was going to get his title shot.

He fought Der Ruech and got beat. Yeah, so that's right. Yeah. I mean, there's some, like Der Roush is kind of the same guy like Charles, you know. Like when they're on men, like they are hard. hard, hard guys to beat. And then it just seems like, you know, the consistency is the issue there, right? And I think maybe even the same thing with Gamrod.

And, you know, maybe it's just that division. Like, it's all, you know, we're talking about the consistency here. But like these guys, you know, when you get up in those levels that they're at, it's almost like anybody could beat anybody on any given night. I mean, Daryush was on a run. He lost to Charles. And he lost to Sarukin and back-to-back knockouts. And everyone's just, you know, tossing grave.

tossing dirt on his grave and saying, well, he's done. And he goes out there and beats Moikano dominantly, like, and Moikano was on a run. So I think that's just the nature of this division, man. Like, you just can't, you can't, you can't count anybody out. And next thing, like I said, like Dan Hooker, you know, came back to lightweight, had a couple wins,

and he gets that fight with Gamron and goes out there. That was a great fight. Him and Gamrodrod was a great fight. Gets the win, it gets fired in the night and that kind of stuff. And now Dan Hooker's in a fight with a fight with Armasarukia with a chance potentially under title shot. Like, that's just this division, man. It's just, it's hard to go on a run.

And I think it's going to be a good one. I think Armin obviously kind of got the shorter in the stick, but it's his own fault when you don't, when you literally have to change your main event the day before the fight. UFC is not going to be happy about that. But I think him and Hooker is a good fight for November. It's a good matchup between those two. Really interesting, too.

I don't think people are going to count out Hooker. I don't think you should count out Hooker. I think it's going to be a really interesting fight. They could definitely be an interesting fight. I think, you know, just stylistically, like it doesn't sound great for Hooker. But, you know, Hooker is one of those guys that constantly surprising us, too. You know, he's one of those guys that, you know, he's had like the bad losses to Michael Chandler. And I think people kind of write him off for those.

And then he comes back and says, fuck all you guys. You know, I'm like, I'm still here. And it's going to be interesting, man. But, you know, I'll be picking Sarukian, too, I think, for that fight, to be honest. It's an issue because what's crazy is I literally just talked to Dan a couple hours ago to did an interview and I was going to bring up because he hasn't fought since August of 24 so it's been every year. He's supposed to fight back in April.

He had a hand injury and so he couldn't fight Gaichi. He was going to fight Gaichi. And I was going to bring it up to him. But then I realized Armand's been out for 18 months. Armand hasn't fought since he beat Oliver. It's to the UFC 300. Now I know he's been doing grappling and stuff and I know he went through a camp for Islam but he didn't fight. But I was like, God, and you realized these were like the whole ring rust thing like kind of gets thrown out of the window.

because they've both been out for a long time because like hookers been out for like 14 months and the armids been out for 18 months which is kind of crazy I tell you it it kind of elevates a little bit of what guys like Islam have done too you know going on the runs that they went on and be champions I mean

this division 155 and 170 like that's a fucking very very difficult thing to do I don't want to spoil the interview but I asked him about Ilya and Patty and I said because like Dana already said Armin and Dan's the number one contender fight and I said,

what do you think of Ilya and Patty? I was like, do you give Patty a chance? And Dan just looked at me and goes, no, no, no. That was his whole, I was like, so he's like, no, no. I thought it was funny.

I was just like, so you give him a chance? No, no. So. Well, you know, he's got a chance. Everyone's got a chance, but yeah, it was just,

the reaction was hilarious. I was like, so, you know, because I just spent like a full breakdown. He's like, no, no. But you know what? It's also like, every time we think someone's invincible is when they lose. 100%. Except for John Jones, you know. Maybe a little GSP.

There's a few. There's exceptions, right? But the majority of guys, like, like, I don't think Paddy's all the these guys. I don't think he deserves a title shot. I think we know that, right? Or to fight earlier or whatever. But the fact is, you know, the pressure is going to be on Ilya, right? Like, he's meant to win this fight.

Like, this is meant to be a showcase for him to be an even bigger star on Paramount. Dude, that's a lot of pressure on. He seems to have handled the pressure well so far. But, but look, Patty is not Volcanowski or Max. Like, he's going to be threatening, taking him down the whole thing. time. If he doesn't, yeah, okay. No, right. Like, all right, you're right. But, but, but he's going to be going for the takedown the whole time. I could see him 100% like pulling a Damien Maya pull guard thing, you know, like, like, like he knows he doesn't have a chance standing with Ilius.

So look, I don't think that's, I just, I don't think it's as far, uh, written. I don't think is written stone like people kind of think it is. I'll tell you this and maybe you'll disagree with me and I love the guy. I want to be clear about that. I think he's awesome. I love Justin Gagey but I think Patty's a tougher matchup for Ely than Justin is because Justin's going to do what Ilya wants.

He's going to stand with him and yeah I know Justin has wrestling but come on it all. You can count on one handy amount of shit takedowns to Justin Gitchie's shot during his career and if you stand with Ilya, that's what Ilya wants. Ily is lethal. He's a lethal striker. Like you do not want to fuck around that guy on the feet and Justin

would play that game. Now, could Justin knock him out? Because Jessica could knock anybody out, sure. But, like, in terms of precision, technical aspects, like, Ilya's just a monster when it can. And his boxing's gotten better. Like, he's gotten so good on the feet. Like, he picked apart Rokinovsky, picked apart Holloway. And Holloway picked apart Gagee. So, like, I know one plus one doesn't always equal to it ever made. But like, the triangle theory never works. Yeah. But, like, I think in terms of styles, like, I think Patty, even though you're right, like, I'll pick Ilya to win the fight. But, like, I think Patty presents a different trouble for earlier than even Gaichi does.

And I know that's going to be an unpopular opinion because everyone loves Gaichi. I love Gaichi. But I think Patty, because of the wrestling, because of the grappling, he presents a different kind of problem to Ilya that I don't think Gaetia really does. Yeah, well, again, a different type of problem than I remember seeing from Ilya for a while. I don't remember the last time he fought a guy that was pretty much guaranteed to be shooting. You know, I don't really remember his run that much, like the types of guys he was fighting. But, you know, Volk, Max, Gagie, all those guys.

like which he didn't fight gage i know but uh those guys he doesn't really have a threat of a takedown right like all those guys that i remember him fighting like they stand now patty's been kind of silly and stood a little bit in his last couple fights but you know we know what he wants to do right and look patty has hell of good jiu jihitsu and i don't know it i could see it being uh ridiculous upset because of the nature of the sports and, you know, so many ways to win. I'm with you, like I'm going Ilya all the way. But I just, I don't like, look,

look, Patty's an annoying motherfucker, right? We know that. But that doesn't make me just stop to say, no, he doesn't have a chance. He hasn't earned it. That also doesn't make me stop and just say, no, he doesn't have a chance. Like when, if it was, there are situations when that happens, right? Yeah, of course. But it's, but not this one.

Like, like, maybe, maybe I'm just not as convinced about Ilya as should be, too. I mean, I grew much more convinced after what he did to Charles because, like, God, Jesus, probably going to knock him out. But I will say, and then to Padish credit, I'm not trying to build him up, as I just said, I'm sticking by my pick. I am 1,000 percent going to pick him to late to Porto to win that fight. But when he fought Chandler, who is known as, like, the big knockout, come forward, kind of, you know, throw haymakers, you know, making an exciting fight kind of guy.

And every single time Chandler has done that, he's hurt guys. Like, he didn't always win, but he, I mean, he hurt Porre badly. He hurt Justin Gagey when they fought. Paddy didn't fuck around with that. Patty took him down and mold him on the ground. So my thought is, is like, I think Patty's smart enough to know I can't fuck around with I'lliot to pour you on the feet. I'm going to have to go for takedowns.

And that's where he has the best chance to win. I don't think he's going to play around on the outside. Like, let me prove I'm a striker. I don't think he's going to. I think he knew better than to play that game with Chandler, because that gave Chandler a chance. He's not going to play that game with Topori either. Now, will it work?

Will it matter? I don't know. But I'm saying, like, I don't think he's going to approach that fight with, like, I got to prove myself against Ilya topore. That's dumb. He's going to go in there and shoot for a takedown. Like you said, pull guard, do whatever he's got to do to get Ili on the ground with him.

Yeah, and that's my whole point. When you got Ili and Patty in there, Patty knows what his option is. Ilya is going to have a harder time getting those strikes off when he knows that's going to be Patty's game. Right? When you're fighting, when you're a striker fighting a grappler,

like you can't open up, you know, when you know that any second a guy could shoot or pull guard or do whatever to try to get it to the mat. Now, Ilya may be comfortable enough to open up and do all those things. But I don't know. I just,

I don't think it's as easy as people are saying it's going to be. But, you know, I could definitely be proven wrong here, too. Like, that's not a hill I'm going to die on either. It's funny this past weekend, Rhonda Rousey was doing an appearance in New York Comic-Con, and somebody asked her, like, what fighter, who's her favorite fighter to watch right now? Or something to that. If I come to an exact question, but she had brought up, she's like, she really likes what Patty's doing because he's really good as a fighter,

but he sells himself. And he's like, she's like, there's something to that to, like, you know, having that rare combination where you can be a great fighter and a salesman. And, you know, we always talk about Connor. And we're going to talk about Connor a little bit with the whole drug testing thing in a minute. I'm sure we will. But like him or like him, hate him, love him, whatever with Connor. Like that's what Connor brought to the game in terms of like selling himself on top of being a good fighter.

And at his peak, Connor was a great fighter. But like, I get it. Like they're, and I think I mean, Ilya's got some of that too. Like, I'll just like you either love him or you hate him because he's got that swagger or you're like, man. what a cocky guy or you're like, I love his cockiness. But Patty's got that attitude, and you don't have to like it. And listen, I've underrated Patty a bunch of times since he got in the UFC, but he is a good fighter. Now, as you said, does he deserve the title shot?

He's earned a title shot? Absolutely not. But that doesn't really matter because the UFC is trying to get people to tune into Paramount Plus on day one to watch UFC. What's going to be big? What's a bigger fight? It's Patty and Illi. They hate each other. Yeah, well, that's the kind of the downside of the whole thing, right?

we don't actually know how good of a fighter patty is yet. I mean, we know, right? I mean, I mean, we know what we know. And he's lived up to everything so far. We thought Chandler would probably beat him. I think most people probably thought that Chandler would beat him. You know, he stepped up so far, but we don't actually know. So that's, again, that's where I stop and I don't just say, okay, no, he doesn't have a chance.

because we don't truly know what his level is. We know that he is a top guy. I mean, we know that he's a world-class guy, but there's a lot of world-class guys in the UFC, you know. And we know for sure Ilya is a fucking world-class guy. So, you know, that's why we all got to pick Ilya. But, you know, it's hard to predict when you got a guy that you just haven't seen fight that top level.

level yet. Yeah. It's interesting. It is interesting though. And like I said, I mean, it doesn't, on paper, does it make sense? No, but who's not going to get excited? The build up to that one's going to be insane. People are going to get excited about. People are going to watch. And yeah, it's pretty interesting. So. Okay. Only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. With Instacard, you get groceries that over-deliver, so you can over-share your preferences. Want russet potatoes with no brown spots? You got it.

Want turnips that look light but feel heavy? Easy. Want honey-crisp apples that are firm, green, and definitely not Macintosh like last year when you lost the fall bake-off to perfect Penelopee Johnson. Okay, a bit TMI, but we're here for it. So download the app today and get zero delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacard, groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions and terms apply. I mentioned the Connor thing, and I know people probably get really sick of us talking about Connor on here, but I got to bring this up because earlier this week, there was an announcement made by whatever the combat sports anti-doping or combat anti-dobing,

whatever that organization is, the UFC started in-house to take over the drug testing after getting rid of Usada. And they announced that Connor McGregor was suspended 18 months for three whereabouts violations, which basically means he didn't update to tell the drug test. testers where he was going to be at because as a UFC fighter, you have to have constant updates so it could be totally random testing, meaning the testers, if you're in Ireland or you're in the United States or you're in New York, wherever you're at, they can find you to do these random drug tests. And I guess he missed three of them over the course of a period of time and they end up

suspending him 18 months. Now, the interesting part, and this is where the conspiracy theory comes in, it was all in 24, and they suspended him 18 months and they said, normally it'd be two years, but because he didn't have a fight coming up and he wasn't scheduled to fight. They gave him a six-month exemption. He's going to be eligible to fight again in March, which means he's going to be perfectly cleared in time to fight for the White House card. Now, Matt, we joke and have fun with conspiracy theories on this show from time to time.

Like, you know, it's this or that. And just like, you know, the UFC wants this guy to win or he doesn't want this guy to win, that kind of thing. But sometimes when these things come out, when they're like 18 months suspension, but we reduced it six months and it's over in March, That seems a little fishy, no? Like, am I wrong, I thinking that just seems a little like that. That kind of reminds me the Brock Lesnar thing. We're like, we're going to get Brock Lesnar an exemption.

And then he tests positive afterwards. Like, wow, I'm shocked about that. Like, Connors been playing this game with the drug testing for years now. Listen, if they're going to let him game the system, more power to him. I think you said that in the show. Like, if you're going to let him do it, let him do it. And I said this ending, but like, we got, like, either we're going to take drug testing seriously or we're not and the way that

Connor kind of jumps in and out of the pool misses Tess and now gets an 18th month suspension that just happens to let up before he could fight the White House card like it just takes away the validity in my opinion like why are we even doing this then like we're just going to like make rules as we go along what's the point

yes it's not good man and I don't remember did I say that when you Sada was around or I think it was just like when he like when he came back and like he had been out with the injury and he was gone out of the pool

and he just jumped back in the pool out of nowhere. And like we talked about the fact that like just because you're getting tested now and you're not on something doesn't mean what you took before just goes away. Like the gains you made from taking whatever you were taking when you're out of the pool doesn't just go away because you're in the pool now.

But to his credit, like he's gaming the system and they're allowing him to game the system. Man, and I hate to kind of harp on this constantly, you know, And, you know, when we talk about this lawsuit that we just, the fighters just won, the class action lawsuit. And sorry, there's been so much, so many things come out that we've learned. And I think a lot of fighters, too, have learned a lot about what the UFC's doing and how they're doing it. And, and again, I always have to preface with, like, look, I don't hate the UFC for what they're doing. And I'm not, like, disgruntled with them.

Like, they're running a business and they're trying to make. money. What the fighters need to realize is like they are running an entertainment business and you are part of an entertainment business. The promoters control everything. They control the title, they control the ranking. We just talk about Patty fighting Ilya. Like that's not a sport, right? That is not a merit-based sport. Patty does not deserve a title shot in a merit-based sport. This is an entertainment sport. This is closer to WWE than it is to sport. And when you start allowing that to happen, things like this happen. Now the UFC also controls the doping.

So who's to say they're not letting certain people dope and not even saying anything, right? I mean, they could absolutely be doing it and just not say anything. Do I think they're doing that? It doesn't matter. It's irrelevant whether they are or not. If they have the power to do it, that's what matters. And I just, I don't know what it's going to take for fighters. I don't know if it's possible for fighters to ever step up and be like,

yo, bro, like, this is some bullshit. And if you look in, I mean, if you just like really dig into this, and again, I don't want to harp on it and get too deep into it right now. I don't think that's what this podcast is meant to be about. But if you get deep into it, I mean, it's not okay. It's not good for anyone other than the shareholders and the owners. it's not good for anyone but the promoters and if we are just

if we all just want to sit back and say okay cool we'll we'll be little you know chickens fighting for the promoters you know understandable I mean I was that guy for 20 years right but at some point like these motherfuckers got like whoever's fighting Connor like are they not going to be like yo what the fuck

right I mean we He knows what's happening. And are you going to tell me, like, if the UFC's controlling the doping, that they're not going to, and they're doing a White House card next year, that they're not going to be like, be like, all right, you know, and then Connor fails the test, say, the week before, are they not, you know, are they not going to be like, all right, Connor, like, you know, we can't really say anything right now. Like, what the fuck are they going to do?

They're going to pull out Connor from the fucking White House event or if John Jones is the main event and Alex Pereira and those guys both piss hot the week before are they just going to stop the fucking main event for the White House card and you got to think that that's why they want they got rid of Usada and that's why they wanted to control. Again, I'm not hating on the UFC. Like if I'm if I'm the UFC, I do the same goddamn thing.

100% right? Like I'm fucking, I'm going on. I'm making all the money that I can. But, you know, in terms of fighters, like do we want this to be a sport or do we want this to be entertainment do you want to do you want to be in uh i don't know um armist rookie in position and deserve a fucking title shot and not be able to get it you get i know yeah he made some mistakes whatever right you know but there's multiple cases of this tony ferguson or uh how many fucking feisty him rob win before he got a title shot right and you know

i mean there's so many cases of this so um you know you know And I think we all know what fighters want. We're just powerless to do anything. So, you know, I guess the question would be, you know, our fighters ever going to step up and take that power? Because it's not impossible. Well, here's the problem specifically with the Connor situation. Because I think personally, like, I go back to when the UFC signed up with Usada. And I think that was an overreaction to like just a rash of positive drug tests.

and that point we had like the whole TRT thing had blown up and like you know you know Michael Bisping loses an eye fighting fucking jacked up Vitor Bellford and that kind of stuff and like everyone kind of hit the panic button said this is getting bad like this is getting like everyone's testing positive it's getting bad no you know so they introduce you Sada as like the fix and then everybody started you guys were like you know John Jones got suspended Brock Lesder got like all and they're like well shit we're losing main events we're losing ours were kind of losing credibility because all our guys are actually getting popped. So when the whole

USADA thing came up again over the Connor thing, remember that's what it all blew it up about was the whole Connor thing. They're like, you know, Connor kept jumping in and out of the pool and shit. And they just did away with USADA. Like, fuck you saw it. We're starting our own thing. Now, I don't know. I can't, like, I'm not in the dude's head who's running this thing, but I did notice when I tweeted out about the

Connor thing last week, somebody mentioned, I didn't do my research, so I'm not going to sit here and say this is absolutely fact, but they said, have you noticed since the new doping place has started, not a single main event fighter has ever tested positive like this entire time. Now, again, maybe based on like drug testing and people just living out of fear, maybe they've just stopped doing shit, but I highly doubt that. It's just a coincidence, right? I guess anything's possible. And like in this case, like, I don't even

want to, I'm not even going to play the conspiracy theory about like they lessened his suspension so he could make sure to find the White House card. My, it's not even a problem. The issue I raise is that Connor, like, he got injured, he broke his leg, he dropped out of the pool. Now, at the time that happened, my understanding was you don't get to just drop out of the pool unless you're retiring, right? Now, when he got back in the pool, they did require him to do the six months testing, which he did before he was supposed to fight Chandler last June. But we said, like, just because you're in the pool for six months doesn't mean the

gains you got from doing whatever you were doing out of the pool, just go away. Okay, be that as me. And then he dropped out again. and then he jumped back in again recently. I'm just like either you're going to have drug testing, and it's got to be, I understand it's annoying if you're injured and not fighting. I'm sure it's really annoying to have these people show up at your house at 5 o'clock at the morning on a Tuesday to test, take your pee and your blood.

I get it. It's annoying. But either you're going to do drug testing, you're not. Because if Connor can just jump in and out of the pool, do whatever he wants, and like I'm going to just skip test, like he skipped three tests, and the punishment doesn't even hurt him because he's not fighting before March next year. anyways. What was he getting punished for? Like, he didn't get fined. You know what I mean? They're like, we suspended him 18 months. Awesome. He wasn't fighting during that 18 months anyway. So what does it matter?

What is your suspension matter if it doesn't even affect him? So I'm just like, is it because to me, that's just, to me, the Connor thing, I'm not playing, I'm not even playing the conspiracy theory that they did it so he could fight at the White House. My conspiracy theory is they did it to show that they're standing up. Like Connor's the biggest star. We suspended Connor. But did you really? because you didn't affect him. You didn't stop him from fighting. You didn't pull him out of a fight. You didn't prevent him from doing anything he wasn't already doing.

So like what's really the point? No, that sounds exactly right. And I say it's just not right, man. You know, and look, we could get deep into the subjective drug test. And I think it's, for the most part, it's kind of garbage anyway, right? Like anybody, not anybody, but the vast majority that can afford, to beat a drug test are beating drug tests, right? Like, it's a cat and mouse game. The mice are, have a huge head start, right? Like, there's things that you don't know about that I don't

know about that we've never heard of. You know, there's people dedicated, there's a lot, lot, lot of money in this industry of beating drug tests. You know, when you're talking about dealing with, you know, multi-million dollar athletes around the world and you're the guy that can help them beat a drug test and still get them on shit like you're a fucking multi-millionaire you know I mean like there's a lot of money in this shit it's just can can you know when you're an athlete it's basically can you afford this or not you know I'm a personal friend with a guy who was implicated in the MLB drug testing thing saga back in the day like it's all beatable you know Like, it's not, you know, black and white.

Like, it is a beatable thing. So anyway, that, you know, that's kind of another subject. But the point is, you know, I, man, again, I just, I don't want to sound like that guy who's, you know, just constantly like, man, the UFC's wrong and fucking, I'm disgrunt. I hate what they're doing and blah, blah, and, you know, fighters stand. But, but the fact is, you know, at what point. does he get to that right at what point should we be pissed off and like like fighters and former fighters like what point should we like we literally just won a three hundred and seventy five million dollar lawsuit about them being a monopoly like like like the case is settled

you know what i mean like yeah so it's like at what point do we say enough is enough you know and you usually you you know i guess Usually if you want to get into people's hearts, you know, you talk about their pockets, right? Like, you know, you say, hey, like, you're losing money because of this. And I'm like, oh, fuck that. I want to fix it. Like, only in this sport is everybody like, whatever, I'll fight for free. Like, you know what I mean?

Well, it's like your point about the Connor thing. Like, it looks like it's going to be Michael Chandler. And I know Michael Chandler very well. And I have a hard time believing knowing how much Michael Chandler wants to fight Connor. how long he's waiting for that fight and knowing the payday he's going to get, Connor could probably walk to the octagon with a steroid needle in his ass, and he would still take the fight because he wants to fight Connor. So, like, that's my point.

Like, you're like, how does it? I don't think it matters because Connor is such a big fight. You're getting paid a boatload of money, and it's a big opportunity to fight in the White House card, and Chandler's been waiting for three years or whatever to fight him. Like I said, I think Connor could walk to the octagon with two steroid needles in his ass, pull him out as he's walking in the octagon, and Chandler would like, let's go. and to your point about the whole like entertainment versus sport thing my problem

I'm not I'm being honest like my problem isn't that Connor's gaming the system and they're allowing them to do it I just wish they'd stop with the whole facade you know just like stop trying to sell me that you're doing this extensive drug testing and it matters because it clearly doesn't matter that much when you're just letting Connor jump in and out of the pool yeah well it's surely like PR right I mean yeah but that's what I'm saying like why even bother because like if you're if this is the if this like I would almost rather them just ignore it and let Connor just come back because this to me looks worse you know I've always had I've always had this conspiracy theory that I don't even know if it's conspiracy theory might just be a wild theory or might be totally corrected that the only reason they even did uh usada to begin with

was like imagine if Michael Bisping sued the UFC like you know he lost his eye died, right? Or maybe someone died in there, right? And, and, and they knew some somehow factually proved that the guy that beat him. Like, say, Frank Mear died when Brock Lesnar, you know, tested positive in this and that. And then Frank Mears family sued the UFC. Like, it would be a PR disaster, right? So they're like, okay, well, here's Usada. You know, they can take all of that, right? They can worry about all that shit. And now how they're doing it now, I'm not sure, you know, because that was my original theory and now I'm not so sure that because of the way that the the testing is now. But regardless, there's no way that like this entire testing thing that they're doing isn't

just a PR move. Like, you know, when they're controlling the testing, I mean, I mean, that's as clear as day, right? I mean, you got to see that, you know, even the the stat, the you just mentioned like, no main event has got canceled a long time. I mean, who's even tested positive in the last, I don't know, however long, you know, they've been doing last year or something. It's always, it's always, it's always, it's always, it's all, the lot. I mean, I had to, I'd have to look it up, like, every time I've written an article about it, it's always a guy.

Like, I'm not, I'm not going to sit there and say I've never, but, like, I think the last, like, two of the articles I've written on such and such person gets suspended, besides Connor, of course, was like, who? Who is this? Like, I don't even remember hearing about this person. They were in the UFC or whatever. So we could probably dig pretty deep in that conspiracy and start looking into, okay, who's his manager, right? How did they speak to the UFC?

Did he turn fights down? Did he miss weight? Things like that. Yeah. I mean, I just like, you're right. I do believe it was it was started as a PR move because they were getting a lot of bad press for the TRT thing and guys constantly getting tested positive. I mean, PFL did the same thing, though. I mean, PFL had like nine guys test positive and like off one.

card and they're like, all right, we're hiring a drug testing agency. And they did for like a year and a half. And they just cut ties with Usada because it's expensive. It pays a lot. And they're like, oh, we're going to go back to in-house testing because it's expensive. Usada is not cheap. And so, like, it's a total PR move. I get it.

Because it does look bad. When you have, like, nine people on one card test positive, you're like, holy shit. I get it. But, like, what I hate is the facade now because, like, this idea that they're like this stringent testing and like so and like even i hated when you saw that did the thing where they stopped revealing the positive tests until it was already done like they'd already you know like you like you don't hear about it until they get the suspension and then the suspension's up like a month later because they've already been out for like a year or whatever you know i'm talking

like they used to when a guy tested positive they'd immediately sent out a press release saying this guy tested positive here you know here's what he tested positive for here's the proof he tested positive and then, you know, maybe you wouldn't hear about the suspension until six months later, but we knew it right up front. And they're like, ah, we're ruining people's names because, you know, sometimes it's not always, you know, like we have to find us attainted supplements, is this, it's that. It doesn't take away the fact they tested positive, just the excuses get better or the reasoning behind it gets better. So even that was kind of shady to me.

I'm like, hold on now. Now you're not going to tell me until it's already resolved. Like, you know, that's like finding out, I know it's not serious, but I'm just like, that's like a guy getting arrested and you don't find out about until the trial's over. Like that seems a little shady to me. You would never know that the guy got arrested for whatever he got arrested for, but now we know about after trials over. That always shook me the wrong way.

So I'm just like, either you're going to do it or you're not. And I'm almost to the point where I'm just like, just stop. Like the facade of you suspended Connor. Connor missed three tests and you gave him 18 months instead of two years. And that very suspiciously allows him to fight on the White House card. Like, why are we even bothering? Like just, yeah, yeah. It goes back to the same thing I was kind of getting at a little bit.

I just, I don't want to dive too deep into it, but it's like one company controls MMA, right? I mean, they lost the $375 million lawsuit for it, right? Like that's, but they still control MMA. I mean, that is a fact, you know, whether they did it maliciously, intentionally, or just fell into it, you know, however that worked out, that is what the facts are. One company controls MMA and that is UFC and TKO, whatever. That's why we, a lot of people call ultimate fighting. That's why a lot of people, you know, know,

know MMA as UFC. They don't know that they even know that there's other organizations. But what they have done intentionally, I believe, which again, there's just. been no, no balance of power, nobody on the other side, nobody on the fighter side saying,

hey guys, you know, you shouldn't be allowed to do this. And what they have done intentionally is control everything, right? Again, whether, you know,

whether buying out other promotions and all that is intentional or not, like they have absolutely intentionally controlled athletic commissions. They have absolutely intentionally controlled rankings. Who gets the title? And now the drug testing, I mean, they want to control every piece they can.

Rightfully so. If I'm in their position, if you're in their position, if Joe Schmoe is in their position, you try to do the same thing. If you are running a business, you are a steward of the business and you try to make as much money as you can and control as much of it as you can.

In a very uncontrollable environment, such as MMA, you try to control as many aspects as you can. Dana and company are all games. gamblers, they know what they're doing. They want to control when you're gambling, you want to control as many pieces of that gambling puzzle that you can. In this game that they're gambling on, this business, they want to control as many pieces as they can, rightfully so, because everything they're doing is a gamble.

It is not, I don't, I don't come out saying that like in a malicious way or a hateful way. Like, they're gaming the system the way the system is for them. fighters managers the other side so to speak has never fought against it you know very small little spurts here and there right but no one has ever balanced that power out and that's not good and you'll end up with situations like this constantly where basically like like your argument that you're saying is is you know well just do away with it all together right they decide if they do it. So what our argument is always, you know,

the argument online is always like what they should do. Like, but the point is they get to decide what they do. Right? We could debate all the day what they should do, but like they get to decide what they do. Yeah, and that in the end is not good for the long-term health, profitability,

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Conditions and exclusions apply. Well, and this is just another. example that, right? Like the counter with the drug testing thing. Like, this is just another example. Yeah, exactly. It's just another example, man. And again, the only reason that I get into that is because it ties directly into that,

that like this is these types of things come up because of that power. If they didn't have that kind of power, this would not come up. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, and I think you're right, it does speak to a bigger issue. And it's And again, I don't mean to rant on On other things It's just, you know, so many of these

Issues that we come up Like I said that they're all tied to that And what do we sit here on podcasts And internet forums and shit And what we say? Well, they should do this. They should do this. It's like, bro, they can do whatever the fuck they want.

And I think that like when I say like just get rid of it When I talk about like the drug test I just great of it because it seems like no one's taking the serious right now anyways or based on who's been busted more recently. Like that's the thing with this Connor thing. Like I think in my opinion, this is my opinion, they did it to say, look, Connor did bad. We're punishing Connor. Right.

Again, they could do whatever the fuck they want. But they didn't really punish Connor because like Connor's not missing any time. Because they could do whatever the fuck they want. And yeah, exactly. They're like, well, he didn't have a fuck. What is anybody going to do about it? We're going to say it talk about podcast. He's, well, you should do this, you should do this.

And it's like, we're not going to fucking do jack's shit about it. And it's like, you know, can we do jack's shit about it? It's the question. And his opponent's not going to do. That's when we get deep. And his opponent's not going to do anything either because his opponent wants to payday. He wants to pay day. He wants to fight.

And I get it. Like you fight Connor. You get a big jacked up contract. You can get a whole lot of money, whatever. I don't fault people for doing that because you're doing this as a living. You're doing it to make money. Of course you're going to. I mean, God, Connor could, like I said, if they're, if they're going.

If they were going to pay me $10 million, I'd fight Brock Leznor tomorrow. I'd lose in eight seconds, but I'd fucking do it for $10 million. Like, sure, you know what I mean? Like, who wouldn't do that? You know what I mean? So there's risk versus reward for all this. But like, to me, it just seemed like such a, like, it's just seemed like, it just seems so obvious what they were doing.

Like, look, we busted Connor. Connor McGregor, the star, the guy that everyone has said, like, he's game the system. But what did you really do? do. What did you really do? Like, what did you, did you really cost him anything? No, you didn't, you're not preventing him from fighting. You didn't cost him a big main event. You cost him

dick. You cost him nothing. So it's just like, why even bother? All right, I got two things for you. Okay. I think a lot of people, if you offer him $10 million, would say they would go fight Brock Lesnar. But if the rules were

something along lines of like, okay, we're not stopping it until you're fucking stop and then and then I actually would question how many people would actually take the walk like I think a lot of people would be like fuck yeah and backstage they'd be vomiting and they'd be shitting their pants and peeing themselves and they'd be like bro I can't fucking do it I think a lot of people like their entire lives like they would have a a meditative revolution in their lives backstage you're like bro I'm fucking doing this like I'm happy with the money I got but anyway, number two, all right.

Do you believe that Connor will actually come back and will actually fight at the White House? Right now... You know my answer. I know your answer. Right now, I'm saying they're going to plan for it. Now, does it mean it's going to happen? No. I'm just saying, I think this latest move to me screams they're going to plan for it.

They're anticipating Conner actually coming back and fighting one more time, at least one more time for this White House card. And despite Dana's whole, Connor, you can always count on him shit, yet ignoring he just dropped out of a fight like last year or whatever. He was completely glosses over that fact. I think they have to be. They have to be planning on it because they wouldn't do this otherwise. Like this whole, like I said, this whole thing was performative. This whole drug test thing was performative to say, we're punishing Connor. but he's going to be eligible to fight by March, which is totally clearing him in time for the...

Because they specifically said, we knocked off six months, which would have carried it over the White House card. So to me, they're like, we suspended Connor. He's the... We busted Connor, but really, you did nothing. So I think they're planning on it. Now, do I actually think it'll happen? No. Whatever.

We're too far out. We're still eight months away from that card. There's so much shit that can happen in eight months time. and last time we were what three weeks away four weeks away when he broke his toe like we were not that far away and they had to pull an Alex, Alex Pereira to fight Gary Prasca. We're too far away from me to just 100% gloss over and say he's going to fight. I think he's going to try. I do think he's going to try and I think they're going to plan for it.

But between now and eight months from now, do I actually think Conner's going to step into the Arctic got to fight now? I think something else is going to happen. I don't know what. injury, life event, arrest. I have no idea, but something's going to happen. So no, I agree. I don't think he is, but I think they're going to plan for it. I think they think he's going to fight. Now, I got one more conspiracy theory for it, and we could call this the conspiracy theory day of podcast. And this is a heavy conspiracy theory. So it's very much theoretical,

but it's more hypothetical than a theory. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it, but I have a The Connor is actually playing the UFC. He knows how much money he was kind of screwed out of over his career. So he's using the UFC to keep his PR out there. He can sit there and keep talking about fighting and blah, blah, and they're pumping him up, blowing him up. And they're like, and he's like, all right, cool. And now I'm going to pull out three weeks before again, motherfuckers.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Either that, either that or he's going to demand a ridiculous. payday and they're going to pay him because now they've already put all this bank into him being there you know what I mean they're going to have to like because there's no more paper there's no more pay per view like there's no more pay per view points so he's going to be like all right cool I'll fight I want 50 million up front yeah or you know except less and then you know a month before I'd be like oh sorry guys like I hurt my rib I need I need another 20 million motherfuckers you know some shit like that

and um again I I've said it before that if you just if you if you take a kick a kid of his net worth, like it makes zero fucking sense for him to fight for the amount of money that they will pay him. Yeah. So your opinion. So my opinion is they're going to plan for it. It's going to be planned that he's going to fight, and I still don't believe he's going to fight. You straight up just don't think he's going to fight. Well, he might, again, my conspiracy theory is that he's going to want them to plan for it, but he has no intention of fighting.

my other theory is yeah he may just you know just be getting some PR and be like whatever fuck off yeah but either way he will not show up on the date of the white house he will not fight ever again in our lifetime unless it's boxing misfits boxing Connor McGregor promotions something along those lines for the UFC never again maybe bare knuckle because he he gets a, like, when I talk to David Feldman about that. Yeah, good, but, because he, because he, because he, because he, for less than 50 million. Well, because he owns part of BKFC, so he's going to get the payday because he could go to Netflix and say, hey, I'm Connor McGregor, I'm coming back. Yeah.

I'm going to fight Mike Perry. Give me what you gave Tyson and Paul or give me what you're forgiven Tyson or Paul and Tank or whatever the ridiculous number is. Yes. And if they put up 50 million, then he'll do it because. I mean, just even right there you just said it. That's a good point, right? imagine you're Connor McGregor and you're hanging with Jake Paul

and Javante Davis or Jake Paul period making $100 million a fight and you're like yeah I'm going to go fight for the UFC for $10 million he's got it or $20 million or even fucking $30 million like is that got to be embarrassing

to him or what? Yeah like he's fucking Connor McGregor he's more famous than all those guys like he would he would feel embarrassed If Connor was going to fight Mike Perry tomorrow in Bear Nuckle, and that would sell to Netflix in about eight seconds flat. Or Amazon or Apple or somebody's going to pay an ass ton of money for that fight, right?

Because they can. And that, I agree. I think he would come back for that. But you're absolutely right. Like, what motive, I mean, listen, I get it. It's historic, right, and the white, all those kinds of those. That's great. But ultimately, you're doing this for money.

And, yeah, like I said, we ultimately come to the same conclusion He's not actually fighting at the White House, but I think your, I think your theory is, I don't think it's really a theory. I think it's a pretty good, you know, I think it's a pretty good estimation of what could happen, whether that's, you know. I guess the conspiracy part of my theory is,

is he playing the UFC for the PR? Or does the UFC just know that he is playing them for the PR and they're doing the same, right? Are they in the Hoos-onner? Or, you know, I guess my theory leans a little more, bit more towards, you know, Conner's kind of playing them for the fools now, right, just for the PR move. But ultimately, I don't see a case. It doesn't make sense ever for him to ever in his life fight for less than, you know, 30, 40, 50 million dollars. I would say at least 50 million.

And we know the UFC's not paying the 50 million. We know that. Yeah, I don't think they will. Maybe they will but I mean I think they'll pay him more I think they'll pay him more I think they'll pay him more than he used to make but he used to make like 10 million they'll pay him 20 million and still not enough I could see them potentially finding a backdoor way to do it right like that would be more likely I don't think they would publicly pay him that much yeah I mean they don't publicly tell us what they pay anybody now and Dana's like everyone's happy about that I still don't buy that excuse well he also said that we can talk about it and it's literally in our contracts that we cannot I'll talk about it.

You cannot talk about your salaries? No, it's literally a line in the contract. Yeah. Yeah, like I could show you the line. It was, I seen a screenshot of it just Saturday. I didn't even know that because I never read my fucking contract like an idiot, right? But it literally says you are not allowed to talk about it. And yet, Dana says, anybody could talk about it.

Yeah, yeah, I'll send you a screenshot if you remind me, think about it. That's crazy. Yeah, I like that one. And it's like, no one, they don't want their pay to be. known really because I'm pretty sure in every other sport it's known and it helps like negotiations when you're like hey well you know this guy this guy's making 20 million i should make 25 million that's a great point you know talking about this all the act thing that that's part of the all the act that's why promoters literally have to let everybody know what they are making and what

every fighter is making and that is something that they are trying to remove in the revival active boxing shit. Well, it always works better when you can pit the fighters against each other versus the fighters versus the organization, right? Because you remember, I know you remember this. Years ago when Sage Northcut, his pay came out for like his second UFC fight, he made like 80 grand or 60 grand or whatever.

And everyone was up in arms. What the fuck? Fuck, Sage Northcutt. How is he getting paid that much? I'm like, why are you mad at Sage Northcutt? What did he do? What did he do wrong? He just got a contract and got paid pretty well for his second UFC.

Shouldn't you be mad at the UFC? Like, why are you mad to the UFC for giving U-10 and giving Sage 80? Why is the Sages fall? How about maybe turn your attention to the UFC? Because they're paying you 10 and paying him 80. Well, Damon, that goes right into my whole point that I've got across about. You have fighters. Uninonize.

First off, we're not allowed to unionize. Second off, getting above. a, bruh, getting a bunch of fighters together. First, we're fighters, and that's what we do is want to fist fight other human beings. Like, that's our literal profession and our fucking goal in life. Like, all we want to do. And then you want to get, we're supposed to all come together, a bunch of people that want to fistfight each other. Like, it's ridiculous.

And if you just think about, I mean, I know I've kind of said this before, but I mean, if you just think about the demographic of people, that turn to fighters, you know, we're not a bunch of fucking organized, like get together and rally for the common cause type of people, right? We're individual lone wolf samurai motherfuckers, right? They just want to hurt people. Yeah. I mean, this goes back to the drug testing. Every fighter on the roster revolted and said, we don't, we're not, we're not playing

this game until you actually punish Connor. Like, he's cheating the system. They'd have to do something about it. Every fighter's like, no, we're not playing this game with Connor. Like, Connor shouldn't get away with this. But that'll never happen. It never has happened. It's, I mean, getting, it probably wouldn't make a difference, right?

If every fighter on the card revolted and they would be like, okay, cool, see you guys. Some, see you when I see you. Well, I mean, we got 200 other ones over here. And the reality is, doesn't even matter because look at what Mark Hunt did. Mark Hunt sued the UFC and Brock Lesnar for that whole debacle at UFC 200 when he got his testing waived. He fought one and then tested positive afterwards. You know, the fight got overturned or whatever. But the damage was already done.

He sued and lost every single time. The courts basically said you have no power here, Mark Hunt. You can't sue. You're not going to win. You lost. And so like even in that case when you think, man, that seems like a valid reason. Like you let me go in there and fight a guy who was on something and didn't seem to care. the courts didn't give a fuck

they're like get out of here you lost every single every appeal every time you filed something you lost so what's the recourse you know what I mean like and no one even talks about that hell I mean I've kind of forgotten about it right Mark Hunt to be fair doesn't do himself a lot of favors with his social media you know

he kind of you know he he doesn't he doesn't promote it the right way he doesn't he doesn't present himself as the most stable individual when it comes to a lawsuit there you go But the lawsuit, I mean, he couldn't be any more valid, right?

Yeah, no, you're right. But what was the end result? He lost every single time. So, like, you know, like, you know, like, but I go back to my, and we'll get out of here on this, but I'll go back to my original point. Even if Connor, even if Connor wasn't in the situation, who's not going to fight him? Because, like I said, if I'm Michael Chandler and I get it, you're going to make a massive payday for Michael Chandler. going to pay him $10, $15 million, whatever the number is, he finally gets to fight Connor, which is what he wants.

And you said, like you said many times during your career, you probably shouldn't negotiate harder than you did, but you're a fighter, you just wanted to fight. Chandler wants to fight Connor. They're going to pay him a good payday, whatever that ends up being $10 million, let's say, maybe his biggest payday ever. I don't think he'll give a shit whether Connor's on something or not. Like, he's not going to care because the result is still worth it no matter what. And you know, you hear guys all the time

I'll fight a guy on whatever he's on. I don't give a shit, whatever. Like, so what does it matter? Same guy here. Same guy right here, bro. Yeah. I know you fought guys on stuff. We've talked about it before.

Yeah, I mean, factually, yeah, fought guys on stuff. And at the time, I did not care. I could say almost factually, yeah, pretty factually, that, you know, I got concussed by a guy that was on steroids. Like, I know he was factually on steroids.

factually on steroids, whether the concussion was solely from that or not. Who knows, right? But, so now I have, you know, lifetime brain damage due to that. And like, does anyone fucking care? I mean, I'm not out here asking for sympathy or for people to care, but you would think that's something like people would care about. Yeah. But during your career, you were just like, I don't care.

Like, your career usually I didn't care. I mean, even after that fight, I mean, even after that fight, I was, you know, I lost the fight, but I was like, okay, cool, I want to rematch them. You know, like, take more steroids. I want to rematch you. You know, that was my mentality. You know, we're fucking warriors, bro. We're not fucking lawyers or philosophers.

And I don't know, I get kind of philosophical, I guess. But, you know, like, for the most part, I mean, we're, like, we're fucking warriors. And what a lot of people, I think, forget is when, I think a lot of people relate to this. Like, if, when you're on a mission, to do a singular thing, right? And our mission would be to be a world champion in our chosen sport. Like, you don't think about anything else. Like, you don't care about anything.

Like, you don't care if you do it for free. You don't care if you get hurt along the way. And fighting is the ultimate sport of that. Like, if you care about your own safety and you care about making money and all that shit, like, you're not going to get to that top level. You know, it's all, you see it all the time. These guys, you know, with a lot of town or whatever. And then, and then they, you know, they get into the business side, so to speak,

or they get into, you know, maybe they start worrying about their own safety a little bit. You know, maybe they have kids or something. I mean, they got to worry about their future now. And like, it's the same in like other businesses, too. Like if you want your business to be the top business in the world, you cannot care about anything else other than, in that business. And that's like,

that's all there is to it. And how do you think the UFC became so successful? They focused on their business and then you got, fuck about it. Yes. Yeah, yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah.

I mean, and that's why I give props to them too. Like, like the amount of work and energy that they put in, I mean, it's commendable, you know? Like they,

they've overcome massive, massive hurdles constantly. I mean, I think it's a, it's a great book for business, you know, and a great story to, learn from, but even I know they blow the story up a little bit, but whatever, regardless,

like the hurdles they've overcome, the things that they've done. I mean, it's an absolutely amazing business story. Unfortunately, like I said, there's just been no balance of power. Just like, what was it like the Rockefellers, right? Like, they had an amazing business story. And then finally, there was a balance of power, right? Union started forming and they started striking. and things kind of equalized at some point, right? And it seems things are more fair now. There just has never been that inflection point with the UFC. Yeah, and I don't know there ever will be if we're being honest.

I mean, you know, they paid a $375 million settlement for the, for the antitrust lawsuit. And what changed? Well, yeah, I think there has been some change behind the scenes. I mean, I know they changed some contract terms and they get like expiration. Not in terms of the not in terms of a TKO UFC zoo for them. A lot behind the scenes with the fighters, the athletes and maybe some managers, probably not though.

They're fucking scum. But mainly with the athletes, like being more educated. Because, you know, I think when that happened, a lot of athletes were like, yo, like, oh, this was real. Because again, I can testify for myself. Like, I remember the lawsuit, I think it started in 2014, I want to say. And yeah, I remember all those 10 years. I mean, I was like, this is bullshit.

Like, you know what the fuck? Like, this is UFC, bro. We love UFC. And then suddenly, like, it's starting to get like, hey, you're going to get some money. I was like, wait, what the fuck is this about? You know what I mean? Like, wait, where do we get money for you, right? And then I think some eyes have been open, which is the beginning of change, right?

education. Whether it plays itself out into anything is yet to be seen. But when you say there hasn't been no change, I would argue on one side of that power equation, there has been change. Just hasn't manifested into anything yet and it may never. I'll argue against change and I'll use the word awareness. There's a better awareness. Yeah, fair.

Yeah. Awareness. Yeah. Yeah, now. Which is, again, it's the only way to get changed, right? Now, would I like to see change? A thousand percent. I would be on, yeah.

So I think, but you're right. It is aware, because I heard the other day, I'm not that just close it. I heard one guy who's no longer in the UFC's retired, and he got how much he's getting for his settlement. I'm just like, fuck yeah, good for you. Like, it's a lot of money. And I'm just like, you know, like, it's a life-changing amount of money.

And I'm just like, yeah, maybe, you know, be aware of like what you were not getting when you were actually fighting for these motherfuckers. Just be aware. And not only just the money part, but about like, okay, well, why were we only getting that amount of money and what could be changed? And that's why I think it's very interesting. Again, I'm not trying to get too deep on it,

but I find it kind of interesting with Zufa right now pushing the Alley Act thing and trying to get into boxing. I wonder how aware that that, has how many eyes it is open for UFC fighters and athletes looking at boxing, seeing Canelo Crawford get $150 million, which was comparable to the entire year, entire roster's year of pay in the UFC. I find it hard to believe that nobody's looking at that scratching their heads being like,

wait a minute, what's going on? So, so, you know, it could be a lot of things, bubbling but it's it has to boil and that's the question will it ever boil because all these guys particularly the current fighters but

you know they're focused man but the example but the example I'll use is just like with this Connor thing I heard a lot of people being like oh the Connor thing he did this he did that but what's going to change and I think that's that's the key everyone's aware where's the change you're going to come from because I when this

Conner thing came out. Everyone's like, oh, of course it's Connor. Yeah, they're just glad to find the White House card. Yeah, that's true. But should we just close over this? Should you really just like kind of let that? So you're right. Like, we'll see as time passes.

And don't forget, there's still like three more antitrust lawsuits going on right now, too. So it's not like this is all over. One is done, but there's still like three more out there. So we'll see what, you know, what's in. Yeah, again, that's, those could potentially bring more awareness, more awareness, more awareness. and potentially at some point I'm like, okay, but we're going to fucking do something. And again, I can't say enough times, like,

because I know, like, when you talk about these kinds of things, this is what gets you blackballed from the UFC, right? And whatever, if I get blackballed, I mean, what, I don't get tickets to the fights anymore. I mean, I'm not making any money off of them or anything, but, you know, but I don't want that. Like, I don't necessarily want bad blood between me and, Dana, the matchmakers, Sean and Mick, and the UFC in general.

Like, I'm cool with most of those guys. But they have never had anybody, any group with power, you know, fight against that balance of power. Yeah. And I think they, being business, long-time business owners and promoters and everything, I'm sure they have to understand that that day is going to come. at some point. It may not even come in their generation though, right? Like this might happen a hundred years down the road, but it will happen at some point. And there are people working very hard to make it happen right now. You know, it's certainly an uphill battle. But awareness, like we said,

is key. And I do think that there's a lot of awareness happening. Well, remember, baseball's been around since I think the late 1800s. And what was the first free agent baseball, like 1950-something, 1960 something was the first free agent where like you could fight out your you could work out of your contract and get signed by another club whatever I care it was it was Kurt whatever's last name was but it was like the 50s or 60 so that's like 60 years of base no grand I know it's 1900s or whatever but like that's 60 years until the first free agent could just switch teams so we're 25 years 30 years in the UFC right now like we're still early so you're right like the change will come but it just may not be in our lifetimes but it will happen.

at some point. So, why do you got to think it will. Like I said, there's a lot of guys fighting really, really hard for it. I think the real sign, I think the real sign is going to come when this Paramount deal kicks in next year. We know they're getting $7 billion. Like, are, you know, is to how much dramatically, like the bonuses to pay? Because they've said, like, it's going to go up.

They never said how much it's going to go. Okay, well, we're going to, we're going to fight because there's going to be some disgruntled motherfuckers and they get their next contract and like I just renegotiated they paid me like two grand more like that ain't that ain't that ain't a bonus it ain't really like he's not doubling my pay like so we're gonna we'll start seeing like how much change comes at that point i think we'll start hearing more of that in the next like year year and a half when like contracts start coming up and people are renegotiated like hold on now didn't you just sign a fucking seven point seven billion dollar deal and you're all right an extra three grand like what the fuck like yeah that could be interesting you know the

I guess the overall big hurdle, big problem and hurdle that is always going to, well, not always, I should say, that is going to be there at least for the, the, the, for the short term is legislative change is really the only pathway that I see. and right now you know we have the guy leading office and you know holding majority of Congress you know is close with you know the

Dana so yeah it's that's that's I'm not sure if that's an overcomable hurdle in the short term and also and I'm not trying to throw anybody on the bus but let's not forget four years ago when Joe Biden had anything changed during that time either so like Exactly, yeah.

Yeah, so. Yeah. Yeah. Not to be, not to be pessimistic, but we're just saying, we just came up that administration. They didn't do shit either. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's where, you know, politics make it all very, very complex. And, you know, there's a lot of moving parts that, a lot of corruption and, you know, all kinds of bullshit involved with that.

But to me, that's the only pathway of real change. because again, there's never been a balance of power. The only way to balance that power is legislation. Like fighters, it's too far gone, I think, for fighters to do anything by ourselves. It has to come through the courts and the legal system and the Congress and legislation. and that's the only pathway that I see in my eyes. It's just so wild to think about every other major sports league, NBA, Major League Baseball, Football,

they have these giant player unions, they have revenue sharing. And like when you mention it for UFC, it's almost like, oh, that could never happen. I'm just like, but why? Like, you know, I'm not, I don't want to get deep in that debate, but I'm just like, it happens in every other major sport. Why should the UFC be unique? That's all I'm saying.

Like, why should it? It shouldn't be unique. Every other sport can do it. Yeah. And I understand the fighter aspect of the same. Like, fighters will never get together. I get all that. But like, it happens in every, and yes, I understand the balance of power is still shifted.

The owners in the NFL still hold more power than the players do. Absolutely they do because you can sign them to a contract and they don't have guaranteed money. Just release them. You don't pay them a dime. I understand all that. But at least there's something in place. You know what I mean? Like, there's nothing protecting fighters.

And, you know, the sport the most comparable to us is boxing, which also doesn't have a player's union and collective bargaining and those types of things. But what they do have is the Allie Act. Yeah. And I mean, that's literally what the Allie Act did in 2000, was stop Don King from being Dana White. It's crazy, dude, to think that boxing has had that instituted for years. And for years, we kept hearing, like, people being like, we want to adopt the Ali Act to, to, cover UFC to cover, you know, mixed martial arts. And it's kind of funny now in 2025, we're going the opposite direction where they're like,

we're going to get rid of the ALE Act and like, we're going to usurp that whole entire idea and kind of instance, it's kind of funny. We've shifted the, because for years it was like, we want the ALE Act to cover the UFC. And now it's like the exact opposite. Like, we want the UFC to cover boxing. So. Yeah, yeah, that's a UFC has a very, very powerful. marketing and propagating machines and a lot of very powerful people in Congress,

you know, the people we call our fearless leaders that are out there doing the hard work for us. I expect a whereabouts failure for Anderson Silva any day now. He's been falling to UFC in like five years. Anderson Silva has been suspended 18 months from fighting the UFC. Way to go, guys. All right. We'll see. This weekend, UFC Vancouver, good main event.

Reiner de Ritter against Brandon Allen. That's coming up. We'll be talking about that. And obviously next week we'll be doing our preview for UFC 321. That comes up next weekend. Tom Aspenal Sir Algon. McKenzie Dern against Vyernagh, Janjaroba, which, okay. Umarmer de Magamatov against Mario Batista.

That's a fun fight. So we'll talk about that. We'll preview that next week. And yeah, we'll see. I'll see who else gets suspended for 18 months while we're gone. So as always, Matt, we'll give you a chance to tell people where they can find you, where they can check out what you got going on outside the podcast. at I.M. Immortal, Instagram, and Twitter, the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. See you guys there.

All right, folks. As always, I want to say big thank you to everyone that tunes in. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and of course, over the best website in the world. MMAFighting.com for Matt Brown. I am Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Unwrap Holiday Magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you from festive and cozy fashion to Lux beauty and fragrance sets. Our special selection has something for every style and price point.

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