MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Controversial Ending in Usyk vs. Rico, Conor McGregor in a Do-or-Die Situation at UFC 329?

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the controversial ending in the Oleksandr Usyk vs. Rico Verhoeven match and if this is yet another black eye on the boxing industry. We’ll also discuss Colby Covington’s decision to retire from the UFC and how he’ll be remembered now that his fighting career is over. We’ll also talk about Conor McGregor’s comeback against Max Holloway — did the UFC set up him up for failure with this matchup in his first fight back in five years? Is it really do-or-die for Conor in this fight? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown and Matt. Are you officially an influencer now? Is that what we're saying after you go to an influencer show in Vegas? Are you official an influencer now? I think I influenced some people.

We're all influencers in some way, right? So I'm scrolled through Instagram last week, and I see you take a photo with Nick Diazman. That's pretty cool. And I realize, oh, he's in Vegas. I was like, what's going on in Vegas? I was like, oh. So I texted you and I was like, are you in Vegas for this influencer thing? And sure enough, you were, how did you get roped into that?

It was kind of last minute, my buddy, Jeremy, the midget who fought. You got to give him credit. He was by far the best highest skilled fighter on the card, which isn't saying a lot. But he did a great job. Yeah, he just asked me to come out and corner him. And, you know, I've actually, I've known Jeremy for a long time. He's a stud athlete. He wrestled in high school, well, you know, the regular, against regular kids and stuff.

That had a really good high school wrestling. Like, he went to States and did really well. He's a multiple-time world record holder and powerlifting. He squats 760 pounds at like 140, 150 pounds, benches over 500 pounds. I think, you know, I mean, I mean, he's an absolute beast and stud of a person. So, you know, he's one of our people, man. He's been a West Sider for a long time. So I'm always down to support my boy.

So unfortunately, I had to be surrounded by kind of the, I don't know, man, I don't know how you even describe it. You just get kind of an icky feeling being around all those people. Like every motherfucker's got a camera and mic streaming shit. And everybody's like trying to be unique and, you know, get it, grab attention in their own way. I'm just like like guys can you just chill like is anybody here fighting like and watching these guys warm up in the back was the most comical thing I ever seen in my life and you know there some of the conversations I heard I was just like dude what the fuck

am I doing here this so yeah you know so we've talked about before right we watch a lot of these cars like the Jake Pauls and stuff and we walk away with this icky feeling like god I can't believe I watched that but now I've actually been a part of it like you want to talk about an icky feeling. It's funny because we were actually covering it in terms of like doing results because people whatever, whatever reason, care. And it was super late because I

was covering the, I was covering the Ousig versus Rico fights. So when it was done, I was done for the day. So I went out, you know, grab food, whatever. And it was late at night and like, I looked at the, I looked at her homepage and like, it was still like only like four fights deep at like 2 a.m. Or something crazy on the East Coast. Now it's 11 p.m.

On the West Coast, but I was like, how long is this freaking car? Like, I don't think it ended to like 4 a.m. or like whatever it was like you know 1 a.m. in Vegas. I was like how long is this thing? Dude they brought us to the arena at 4 p.m. the fights didn't even start till 8. So we're literally backstage like five hours. Oh man. And of course like I'm on eastern time. You know my body's on eastern time. So you know you're looking at like starting at 11 p.m. at night on my my circadian rhythm. That's what it's accustomed to. And man, yeah, that didn't that didn't help the vibe at all.

But we got fired up for Jeremy's fight. And if you see it, again, I mean, he looked good, man. He did the, he looked like an actual fighter unlike anybody else on the car. The boxers, I guess there were some decent boxers early on. But other than that, I mean, you know, the other guys, I mean, I couldn't believe what I was watching. And I was like, I was there, what kind of, I mean, you ever see the movie? idiocracy. Oh yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah, if anybody out there hasn't seen this movie, go watch it. And this is what we're headed towards, apparently. And this show was a clear indicator that this is

what the world is coming to. Did you, did you, like, did you run into anybody to interact with anybody? Because, like, I feel, because I know like Sean Strickland was there. And afterwards, he's like, I feel ashamed that I even went to that car. Like, he's like, I can't, I hate streamers. He's like, I hate this whole thing. He's like, I'm ashamed I win. I feel dirty that I win or whatever. He said, did you have any interactions with any of the streamers? Any of the influencer people?

Did they come up and talk to you or they want pictures or anything? Yeah, yeah, yeah, a bunch of them. Yeah, yeah, maybe like the no neck guy, which is just so funny. He was like right beside us in the locker room. And again, watching him warm up, I was like, what are you doing, bro? Like, did you go to a gym at all? You have a single thing. Dom the Troll, he was, you know, we're warming up back there.

He's doing his little, I guess you could call it a warm up, you know, just practicing little stuff here and there. And I talked to him a little bit. But, I mean, he was just rambling the whole time. You can tell, you know, that nervous energy, you know, different people handle different ways. And his way of handle it was just talking the whole time. And I was like, bro, just shut the fuck up. We've been back here five hours. I don't need to hear anything else.

Yeah, so it was kind of wild, man. But, yeah, interacting with a bunch of the guys, man. Yeah, a couple of the basketball players. It was so funny. The one guy that got choked out didn't get choked out because it wasn't really a choke. But I talked to him after he said, man, I never had to touch my neck before.

I was like, you're going into MMA fight. Like, what do you mean you never had to touch your neck before? That's wild. that's why I was like you you don't you don't suffer for you're not like you're not like an outwardly like violent person or anything but I was like dude something somebody somebody does something really stupid like I just hear a story back to me story about like yeah Matt Brown elbowed someone dude in the head and like dropped him in the floor because these guys because they do I'm sure you saw that video a couple months ago that that's face and like yeah yeah yeah yeah no one was like that long yeah no one was like that all it was actually I'm like the majority of them didn't even recognize who I was it was funny because like we're you know, on the shuttle and they don't really say anything. And then we get to the arena, they don't really say anything. And then when we get to the apex, like the people are working at the apex, everybody's like, oh, fucking Matt Brown, hell yeah.

And now the streamers, like, stop and they're like, oh, who are, you know what I mean? Yeah. But it was just so comical because they have, like, no idea who I even am, you know, this young generation of nerds and dorks that are living on their phones. But look, respect to them, you know, I'm not, I don't want to hate on them. You know, like they're making their living the way, you know, they're hustling the way that they can hustle. and, you know, if there's a market for it,

then you can't hate on nobody for making money, you know? I'm not going to ever hate on that, but, you know, certainly not my vibe and certainly not something I'm interested in. So I was there to support my boy, and that was it. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, Disha, like I said, you know, it is what is like, everyone, like, I know a lot of people like to hate on, like, Nina drama because she does love them.

Like, she's just doing her thing. Like, she's not, she's not bothering anybody. Like, you know what does she do? Like, if she, if they're like, Nina's going to, if Nina's going to get a half hour, exclusive interview with Connor McGregor and the rest of you get nothing. Maybe then I'd get like, she's not going to ask the questions that we want to know from Connor McGregor in an exclusive interview. But she's doing her own thing. She's doing the influence of things. She's hanging out. She's

having fun, making funny videos, whatever. I don't. That dude, it's cool with me. Like, it may not be my thing, but like she's not bothering anyone by doing that. Like, you know what? I mean, like, good for her. I don't hate on the person doing it necessarily. I hate on the people that support it and are about it, right? Like, because like 90% of people watching the drama are like, oh she's cute look at those tities and of course she plays into it right you know dancing and twerking and all the shit and it's like it's the people that are feeding that that's the problem you know it's not her doing it there's a problem like she's just uh you know just doing what people are asking for right and making money on it so you can't hate

on that but again that's where is like we're headed towards idiocacy man like like who fucking like i don't hate need a drama at all but i have zero interest in watching a single one of our videos is not like the least bit interesting all like does anybody enjoy anything intellectually stimulating anymore that I'm that sound like sound like some fucking up-a-dush you know professor from Harvard or something but it's like it's like I'm a fucking fighter and I'm not even like that genius of a person but I like some halfway fucking intellectually stimulating shit like like Jesus Christ yeah well like I said t-shirt and like I said it's not my thing but

you know go do your like she's not bothering anyone like go do your thing have fun like doesn't bother me whatsoever and like I said she's carved out her and own lane and you know and what I like about her is like she just does her own thing it's the influencers who do stupid shit like the guy who got in Tiki's face like oh you think you can knock me out like that that guy

kick him out never never talked to him again like that's a moron like that's just an absolute utter moron like you know what I mean like no one you should no one you should never do that and that like when that guy got blasted and I was like I almost texted Tiki like good job like just what what a moron you know like that's where

that's where I fall into like a problem with it but like what Nina drama does or, you know, it's the same thing that the guy getting in Tiki's face. Like the people feed that, right? You know, I mean, it went viral. Like, he probably got more subscribers and viewerships from it. It's the people feeding it. That's the problem. And I say, like, the same shit that, you know, I'm not going to get on too far of a ramp.

But, you know, it's like with the politicians or like, you know, preachers that are fucking robbing everybody. It's like, boy, like, quit fucking giving it attention. Like, quit feeding it and it'll stop happening. Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Because you were at influencer fighting, whatever the fuck it was called, brand risk, I think it was called. Brand risk, you didn't get to watch the whole fight, but obviously Saturday, Saturday leaning into, seemed like a gimmick fight.

Rico Verhoeven going to kick, going to boxing, fight in Alexander Uisig felt like a gimmick. But to his credit, unlike the guys fighting brand risk, like Rico is a world-class, maybe the greatest heavyweight kickboxer, one of the greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all the time. I don't know where he want to rank him, but he's right up there, no matter how you put it. And he was coming over to boxing, and I talked to Rico before them. I know RICO pretty well. You know, RICO trained with Peter Fury for years. He's like, I'm not coming in here.

This is not a joke to me. I'm being serious. But everybody, even Eddie Hearn who promoted RICO that fight was like, he pretty much has no chance. And like the win was like, go five rounds. Survive five rounds and you've won. Like, you know what I mean? Like that's a win. And I get it.

Like, even though it wasn't nearly the same magnitude of Connor and Floyd, and you can say Floyd carried him, he did. But Connor still made it 10 rounds. Like that's more than he probably should have made it against the guy's high level at that point in the career of Floyd Mayweather. But that's what we're all like, you know, as long as it's not a joke. He didn't get knocked down in the first round. It looks like it was an absolute joke.

Well, not only did he not get knocked down in the first round, but he actually looked really good in there. And going into that 11th round, he was up on my scorecard. I think two rounds or maybe three rounds. Like, I had him up a couple rounds. And into the 11th, he gets caught with an uppercut, gets knocked down, legit knock down, okay, immediately 10-8 round. And then he gets back up, and then, you know, Usoc starts unloading on him,

and then the referee just inexplicably steps in between him and calls it off. Clearly, when you were watching, it was after the bell. The bell had rung, and he's calling it. Because I watched it live, I thought the referee was like stepping in to stop the round. Like, okay, into the round, like, get away. You know, just like, like referees doing MMA. No, he was stopping it. And Rico, listen, I don't know, maybe he comes on into 12th round,

and Ole Alexander Usig knocks him to fuck out. Maybe that's what happens. But this is, this always circles back around boxing, and then the scorecards came out. And only two, one judge had Rico up one round. the other judges had it tied. Nobody else had it that close. It was pretty much like, you know, like everyone kind of universally had RICO up a round or two, maybe three,

and obviously with that 11th round, it would have come closer because it would have been a 10-8 round. Matt, I know you didn't see the whole five, but I know you did see the finish. What do you make it? Because we talk a lot about, man, judging and refereeing blows great boxing matches. We've complained about this for, it feels like decades,

and it never really changes. What did you make of that stoppage? It's certainly a garbage stoppage. I mean, for one, Ussig landed shots after the bell. The referee should have already stopped the fight because it was the end of the fucking round, right? Like, the fight should have already been, you know, broken because of the end of the round.

But, you know, it was, I mean, a split second after the bell, you know, when the ref jumped in. But I mean, you can't say it better than you just did. I mean, like, what garbage, man? And, you know, boxing just keeps shooting itself in its own foot, man. And I think that's why Dana stepping in, you know, love it or hate it or, you know, there, you can certainly go down a

whole rabbit hole of what you think about Zufa boxing and what they're doing and what their potential is and all that. But, but the fact is Dana sees a gap in that market right there, or TKO or whoever's in charge that, they see that gap in that market. And the, and boxing is just fucking making that gap for them. You know what I mean? Like, they're not doing themselves any favors doing stupid shit like this. And, and, and, Like, it was clearly either crooked or or completely inept and incompetent. Yeah. It's such a problem.

It's such a problem. It's such a problem. And, you know, the other thing I'll say about this, like, people got to stop with this, like, oh, he has no chance type shit. Like, humans have chances, period. Like, like, I kind of tweeted about this a little bit the other day. And I'm not sure exactly how to explain what I kind of meant. but like, like, people have this, like, there's such a huge difference between, like, the great, great fighters, like the Floyd Mayweathers or the Pachios, and, like, trying to come in

against them is, like, is way more difficult than, like, a really, even just a really good fighter, like, Ussick, I think is, like, a really good fighter. I mean, he might be a great, but I wouldn't go that far, especially after this fight. and when like you're just a really good fighter like all you have to have is another really good athlete and fighter to come in to give him a hard time right and if fucick wasn't on his A game which he may not have been you know a lot of people were saying he looked a little overweight and probably didn't take too serious but those are all excuses like you don't fucking you can't make those excuses for people like you have a fighter coming into a championship fight like preparation is part of

being a fighter like that's not an excuse the fact that you did not prepare i mean i could otherwise like i mean you could just like every loss you ever had you just wasn't prepared it's like okay well that's your job you know as a fighter and that's that's what's so special about the guys like floyd and like i'm not a floyd nut hugger either i don't think he's even in top five grades fall ton but but you know you got to give credit where credits do where like he was undefeated even though you know we know he lost a couple of but whatever you know he's he still went undefeated. That means, you know, I said the same thing about Wonderboy, like, before I fought him, you know, because, you know, when we were talking to the media and stuff,

everybody was like, you know, what do you think? Like he's undefeated. I'm like, well, you know, he's never facing one like me, et cetera, you know, all the basic stuff. But I always maintain the respect of like, look, he showed up 60 plus times and won. That might, you know, he may have had the flu. He might have been sick. Like, it didn't go perfect every time. And he still found a way to win. And that's what champions do. And that's where I was like, okay, Usek, maybe he's not as great as we thought he was, because he didn't show up to win, right? And I mean, he obviously got to win.

And the lastly thing I'm going to say on this is, look, these motherfuckers that keep saying, oh, he would have got finished in the 12th. You have no fucking clue what would have happened in the 12th. Fuck, you ever watch Kraus Castillo, motherfucker? You know what I mean? Like, or Gotti Ward, like, has nobody ever watched these fights before? don't tell me what would have happened in the 12th motherfucker I mean remember what happened with Dante Deonté Wilder and Tyson Fury in their first

ended it ended in a draw but he got absolutely flatline like he got Tyson Tyson the Tyson Fury looked done like done like oh my God it's overdone and he came back and finished the fight and then the next two he just absolutely outclass Wilder like it wasn't even a thing he just absolutely battered him and beat him and knocked him out but like that that that might be one of the worst like knockouts that didn't stop a fight I've ever seen and yet somehow he came back and didn't get finished again against a guy. And by the way, Alexander Ussi is not known as a power punch.

He's not known as like this one punch, huge knockout guy because he's actually a cruiser, but he fighting it heavyweight. Deonti Wilder, if he hits you hard enough, you are going to sleep. That is a reality with that guy. He's not the best boxer in the world, but he will put you to sleep with one punch. And Fury got up and continued to fight. So, I mean, how can you say, oh, he would have been done?

He would have been finished. You don't know. You just don't know. Yeah. That's the biggest garbage reason. I see so many people tweeting that. I was like, this is the biggest garbage I've ever seen in my life. You're assuming that this guy's going to be finished. Like, fuck you.

And it's not like, like, I know Rico is a kickboxer, but like Rico's been in deep water before. Like, this isn't his first dance. Like, it's not like he's an influencer coming in and be like, I've never thrown a kick before or thrown a punch before. Like, he's a world-class fighter who has been a champion for over a decade, undefeated for over a decade. Do you think this guy doesn't end up the will to come back?

He's been knocked down his kickboxing fights. He came back and won. Like, obviously he did because he's undefeated for the last decade. decade. So, yeah, it's ridiculous. And this is why, like, every time you feel like you're getting like hyped up about boxing, like, we got great matchups coming, blah, blah, but then a really bad decision gets rendered. You know, so, like, how did that? Like, I remember Canello and Triple G the first one. Like, how the fuck did you give Canello that fight? And it felt, we say the words like fixed and rig. We don't really, I mean, like, I think it's fixed and rig, but that's the thing that

comes to your mind. Like, how do you give him to fight? He clearly didn't win this thing, but you give him to fight. And, or you get these, you know, terrible. referees who are in there, you know, stopping the fight. We're getting too involved in the fight. That's happened before, too. We're like, they're constantly barking at them. I'm like, what are you doing? So this is what, this is like the black eye that just continuously comes up in boxing over and over

and over again. And it's why boxing is never going to die. We're always dying on its last leg. That's never going to happen. But it feels like every time we get really excited and like there's good momentum, something dumb like this happens. Yeah. And honestly, like something like RICO winning that could be a big thing for about.

boxing right like because now sets up a big rematch which he may get a rematch anyway which he should at least but I mean it brings eyeballs to the sport and that's where again this is where one of the things like i think dana understands and what he's tried to do the boxing he's like he's like we don't have to worry about all this stupid protecting sport type shit he's like get fucking eyeballs over here motherfucker and it's just like that brand risk thing we're talking about like it's bringing eyeballs like it doesn't have to be fancy it doesn't have to be the you know whatever you know, story you want to be writing. Like eyeballs matter, motherfucker. Like, we are in the world today of attention is the currency of today, right? Like, getting attention is what matters. And

boxing continually brings itself this negative attention. And now, again, all attention is attention, right? But all PR is good PR. But like, you can't just keep giving yourself black eyes all the time. You have to have some fucking integrity. And the last thing I'll say is, like, I also get it. Like, you know, I remember when I was watching, I'm trying to remember his, I think it was like Machita Shogun, right? And not, it wasn't a Machita Shogun, though. Who was it?

But either way, you know, where you got a guy that's like just expected to get mauled. And then every little thing he does seem so big because you were expecting the opposite, it, right? And then every time the guy that was supposed to win does something, it's actually, you know, you're like, oh, well, that's just what he was going to do. You know what I mean? And to me, I think the judges, I kind of feel that sometimes. And that's where, like, getting judges that can be very objective matters, where they're not attached to the emotion or the history of the fighters. And obviously, I think it's a difficult thing. to do but I I think that like plays a role you know and with referees too like the referees are

understanding of are knowledgeable about who's in there and you know this referee's probably thinking like oh well Rico's a kickboxer so you know usually's going to beat them up I better save him when it's like you know again it's just disrespecting like what Rico has done and and you know I think that narrative just needs to be changed like look kickboxing is everything Every bit is hard as boxing, if not harder. I would say it's harder, personally. And, you know, these motherfuckers need the respect, man. And I think Rico just at least earn that respect.

And he should have had that respect in the 11th round and had a chance to come out in the 12th and see if he could get it done. 100%. 100% agree. Moving on from boxing, I think it was like the day after we recorded a podcast last week. We got news. So we're kind of a little bit late here, but I didn't want to talk about it just because it is, you know, kind of big news. Right after we got done, I think it was like the day after,

maybe two days after. We got word that Colby Covington notified the UFC that he's retiring from the sport. Now, we still haven't heard from Colby. We will probably hear from Colby this week because he's wrestling in RAF against Chris Wyman, which that's actually a pretty fun match. I actually really look forward to that one. Wyman, you know, two-time All-American, legit badass in wrestling. This is not Dylan Dennis or Luke Rockhold. But so I'm sure we'll hear from Colby this week. He'll talk about his decision. But I verify with the UFC, yes, he notified him. He is retired kind of out of nowhere. but at the same time he's 38 hasn't fought you know had that last 5 had Joaquin buckley I guess the question I want to know Matt is like how will we remember Colby Covington

because at his peak he was one of the couple three best welterweights in the world absolutely at that point there was a point in time where that happened never became a champion you won an interim title never became a chef full by undisputed champion uh and the second half his career is really defined by his trash talk his trumpism like you know becoming his over over the top outlandish you know not as good chel sonnan like shell was always very good colby was never quite chill. But how will we remember Colby? Because we think about champions,

like, Camar Outsman retires tomorrow, he's an automatic Hall of Fame. Like, just put him in the Hall of Fame right away. Like, why fuck around? Why are we going to wait two years away? Put him in the Hall of Fame tomorrow. You know, certain guys you just know.

But Colby never quite had there. When you look at Colby's record, like Colby's biggest wins were guys who were, you know, soon out of the UFC or, you know, kind of the end of their career. You know, Mazvedol, Tyron Woodley. You know, he did beat Robbie. Robbie. Robbie wasn't quite done at that point.

But yeah, a lot of the guys who were kind of like did tail into their careers, he picked up big wins over them and lost to Oosman and a couple times, you know, whatever, lost to Leon Edwards. How are we going to remember, Kobe? Because it's hard to separate the accomplishments as being like a really, really good

well-to-way fighter from the outlandish dumb shit he said constantly. Yeah, and I've always said that, you know, I think what the, one of the things that the UFC does better than any other sports promotion in history, is they magnify the personalities of the athletes. And, you know, Colby certainly took advantage of that.

He got a lot of eyeballs on himself and got himself into a couple title fights. So, you know, more power to him. I know how I can always say how I'm personally going to remember Colby Covington. And I remember him personally is one of the best fighters to not ever win a title. I mean, I think he was a great fighter.

I think he could have won a title at certain eras or certain times. and, you know, he's just wrong place, wrong time, wrong matchups for him to be able to get the title. And, you know, so I respect Kobe. And, you know, it's going to be interesting kind of what he does post career. I think post-UFC career, you know, whether he does, you know, some as influence or fighting or, you know, obviously he's doing the RAF. Maybe he'll kind of attach himself to that a little more. But I'll be interested to see kind of how much shit he talks.

And, you know, if he maybe goes back to kind of who he is. is as a person who I think who he truly is, which is, you know, a wrestler with a humble background, humble beginnings and a humble personality and, you know, just kind of your, your normal wrestler type guy. Because, you know, I think what most people are going to remember most is the character that he played. And that's unfortunate because, you know, I don't, I don't think he did a great job with his character all the time. And I think he kind of, you know, made some bad moves in that respect. But I think he's a respectable athlete in, you know, in terms of athleticism. And I think he could probably do some good things in post career. And I think that he,

you know, again, the way that I will remember him is just one of the best fighters to not win a title. I mean, I think he was a great fighter. And, and again, I think he could have got a title, won a title at many points. He was just a wrong place, wrong time. Yeah, I mean, in terms of like fighter, like, he was always really, really good. But the reality is people are going to remember him for the character, like it or not. Like that's just, and, and to a certain extent, like, I'm sure, like, because if it wasn't for that character, I don't know that we would

ever, like, remember, when Colby created that character, he said very open, like, the UFC's just like, you know, we're probably not going to resign you, dude, like he was just, he win, but very, you know, not exciting fights, a lot of wrestling and, you know, not a lot of finishes, and they're just like, and so he created this character to get attention, I remember when, I think

it was he beat Dongyang Kim, I think it was he beat, and he called out Tyron Woodley, who was his teammate in American Top Team, he trashed him in the ring, I was like, whoa, Because at that time, it's kind of out of nowhere. And then, obviously, the whole Trump thing, whatever. But he created this, like, outlandish character. And, yeah, like, you could tell a lot of his lines were pre-written. And he kind of had this, like, schick where he was going to say the same things.

And, like, he was not a guy who was great, like, you know, quick thinking on the mic like Connor McGregor was. Like, you know, Connor McGregor would, like, Red Panny Knight or, like, who the fuck is this guy? That's all just, like, in the moment. Colby was never an in-the-moment guy. You could never pull out funny stuff like Connor could. But reality-wise, like, and by the way, and, you know, you said, well, you kind of diminishes his fighting career. Yeah, but at the same time, like, this is what he wanted.

Like, this is how he got money. I'm sure he got paid really, really well for some of those final few fights where, you know, he hadn't fought for a year and a half. Like, everyone got really pissed off when he got the Leon Edwards title fight. And I'll disagree, by the way, definitely didn't deserve it. But I've said a million times, strike deserves from his vocabulary if you're in MMA because it's not about deserves. It's about what's going to sell.

And Colby sold. And he actually, like, he got Leon rattled. Like, I don't like how he did it with his dad comment. and that was pretty dirty. I don't like that shit. That didn't. That didn't necessarily tell him to tell him to the time of his dad who had died. But he was trying to rile him up, and he actually had Leon Edwards pretty riled up,

and that's not really Leon's game. Like, Leon's a pretty cerebral kind of, you know, quiet guy. So, yeah, like, he was a very, very good fighter, and I agree one of the better fighters who never won a title. Obviously, he just ran into a brickwall named Kumar Usman a couple of times, and that's just a tough guy, you know, that's one of the greatest welterweights of all time. Not ashamed to lose that guy. You think about all the guys that George St. Pierre beat, like, you know,

the guys that maybe could have been a number one guy or a champion, but George St. Pierre was right there. Think about where Tiago Alves was. Teago Alves was killing people leading into E.O.C. 200. He got taken down and beat up on the ground for five rounds. Never got to a title. Never got that chance at that point. So, yeah, like, but the reality is he's going to be remembered for the character.

People are going to remember that probably more than anything. And is that a good thing or a bad thing? I mean, if it leads into a post-fight career, I keep mentioning Chale because, you know, Chale was not that guy. Chale and Colby walked very similar paths. Like, you know, Chale was a very quiet. I remember interviewing Chale years ago. Super good guy.

Like super good dude, but never like the controversial, never said crazy things. I remember I got on the phone with him. I want to say it was when he was fighting Nate Marquard. He went off on Anderson Silva. He went off on Anderson Ed Sores. And I was like, where the fuck did this come from? Like what in the hell? And then he became Chelle the character, but he was still a really good fighter.

And Chelle's another one. You could say one of the better guys who never won a title. Like he had Anderson beat. Anderson Silva beat. It got triangle in that fifth round. So they walked very similar paths. But if Colby could create something like what Chale has done, Like, Chil's a media guy now.

He's doing podcasts and interviews, and he's all over the place. When Chelle talks, we listen because Chel's, you know, kind of an authority on the sport, so to speak. If Colby can kind of do his second act in that, good for him. But as far as fighting goes, like, he's going to be remembered for the character more than anything because he didn't have these, like, crazy, like, I think his most memorable performance was probably the Robbie Loller fight, where he beat him, like, on the feet, which is like, what the fuck? How he beat Robbie Loller on the feet? But he never had these, like, crazy, you know, just.

just mauling finishes, anything like that. So he should be remembered as a really good fire, but I think we both know he's going to be remembered for this outlandish, you know, just almost cartoon character. Yeah, absolutely. Like you said, I mean, he wrote his own, or he made his own bed there, and that's his, you know, he got him paid.

Again, I think it's going to be really interested to see kind of what he does post-career and how he handles himself. And if he kind of keeps that character going, I get the feeling that he might change the character, right? Like he hasn't got much love from Trump or from the White House or, you know, from Dana. And, you know, so that may not have paid off the way that he kind of seen it in his head is paying off. So it'd be interesting to see if he kind of changes that character up or if he kind of maintains that and keeps, you know, keeps doubling down on that character. Yeah, we'll have to wait and see.

Like I said, he's fighting. He's wrestling this weekend. I think it's an interesting match him in Wyman. I'm sure we'll hear from him. It's kind of an interesting matchup on one hand, but I mean, he's just outsized by Wydenman by a large margin, I think. I don't know. What weight is the match at? I want to say, well, I think it's a 185, yeah, I'm pretty sure.

I mean, he's going to be still massively outsized by Wyman, and Wyman's a good enough wrestler. Like, you know, even if they were matching sizes, I mean, I think Wyman's a tough matchup for anybody in wrestling. And then, you know, when you put the size differential, I mean, it's just a, that's a, that's a, huge uphill battle for Colby. It's going to be hard for him to even look good in that match. And that's what's unfortunate because he's probably a better, you know, the way that I'm seeing it right now is he's probably a better

wrestler than what he's going to be able to show this weekend. So it might end up being a bad look for him. Yeah, I think that's a great assessment. I don't think he's better than Whiteman, but that's the problem. He's not better than Wyman, and Wyman's also a lot bigger than him, and that just kind of negates your skill and he could get squashed. Now, maybe it ends up being an exciting match. I don't know,

but we'll see. But when I talk to Whiteman, he was like, I was surprised he called me out because he's like, you know, beating Dylan Dennis and Luke Rockall, Luke Rockle to a zero wrestling experience in Dylan Dennis who doesn't have any wrestling experience. Like, that's a big way from wrestling a guy who was a legit NCAA, you know, NCAA,

All-American twice in his college career. I mean, he got inducted to the Hofster Hall of Fame. Like, he was a really, really good wrestler and has wins over a really, really good wrestler. So, yeah, but hey, I think that was one of the biggest criticisms of Colby a lot during the latter part of his career. It's like he's fighting, you know, Mazvedol, and he's fighting Tyron Woodley, and like their last leg versus like, you know, one of the top, you know, two or three guys who were kind of tearing up at that point.

But hey, credit to him. We'll see what happens this week. And it's actually the RIF card's really good. You got Marab and Frankie Edgar wrestling. You got Kyle Snyder coming back and obviously Gable Steven making his RIFDB before he wrestles or obviously before he fights at the international fight week card in July. So pretty good. I love what RIF is doing. I have so much fun watching those cards.

Yeah, absolutely. It's pretty awesome what they do. And I can't wait to watch it. But, you know, the problem, and I've said it's a million the time. it's a problem with Tarif. Like, it's still wrestling. Like, it's, guys like us, we enjoy it, and it's somewhat exciting.

Like, it's really not that exciting of a sport. Like, wrestling is, you know, for the guys that love wrestling as a sport, it could be fun. But for, like, mainstream people, I don't, you know, it's just simply not that exciting. Yeah, I mean, I love it, but I'm a wrestling hardcore. That's a difference. Like, you're not trying to appeal to me.

You already got me. Like, you're going to get me no matter what. So, yeah. But, like, but here's what I do like is they, lean into the like like the kind of like almost like a UFC WWE style show with the big intros and the

pyro and like things like they do like during the NCAA finals in wrestling but like I've been to a lot of matches at Ohio State and it's just like here's so and so they're just going to walk out to the boom match starts like there's no there's no pageantry there's no like oh man like I remember going there I think it was one Kyle Snyder was in Ohio State I can't remember he was

wrestling the guy from Penn State or Minnesota one of the top guys like one of the other top guys and in my mind I'm like oh my God what a great match and they're just like, here's Kyle Snyder and this guy, and they just start wrestling. There's no, like, big intros or pyro. You know, just like, here's the, and I think that's where, like, when I watch the Olympics a lot of times,

I'm like, the Olympics is the biggest of the big, the greatest, like, athletes on planet Earth. And there's so many gold medal matches where I'm like, is this even happening? Like, are people carrying? Like, it's just like, it's just going on. Like, I'm like, put a little excitement into it, guys. Like, come on.

Yeah, I feel what you're saying. That's a, yeah, again, that's a cool thing that I think our AF is do it. But, you know, that's wrestling, right? Like, that's kind of the vibe of wrestling. And RIF is certainly trying to change that, which is cool and it's good. And they have a lot of potential there. But, you know, I've been to enough matches. I mean, that's kind of one of the things I think hardcore fans like me.

That's one of the things I love about wrestling. There is no paddetry. There's no excitement about it. It's like, no, these are two men, you know, meeting in the middle. You know, it's just the two of them out in there. and the wide open mat and, you know, there's yeah, that's it.

Fucking scrapping, bro. Yeah, no, we'll see. I mean, I think they're doing a really good job. They continue to build. Obviously, got Homsok coming there next month against Dylan Danes, which is so weird. But yeah, we'll see what actually happens more R-A. But I really dig what they're doing.

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Before we get out of here, people are going to go so sick of us talking about this, because we talk about a lot when he wasn't around for five years, and now he actually is scheduled to fight. Connor McGregor, of course, coming back on July 11th. By the way, credit to the UFC, man. They built a really good international fight week card. Patty Pimbley, Benoit, St. Denis. Oh, boy, that is a good fight.

I'm really looking forward to that. And I appreciate it because I assume Patty's probably making pretty good money. They're not just, like, underloading the Connor card because they got Conner at the top because reality is. Is Connor going to be there? Matt, we're going to take the assumption that Connor is actually fighting on July 11. That's the assumption I'm taking. And I know his manager, Auditarr, who's a good dude, I've known him for a lot of years, came out over the weekend because he was there.

He's one of Rico Verhoeven's, he has several managers, he's one of his managers. And he talked about the Connor fight, and he said, Connor really wanted the Michael Chandler fight because, you know, he kind of felt like Chandler had earned it. He deserved to, he waited so long, and he didn't get it, and the injury happened and blah, blah, blah. but, you know, obviously he said the UFC was very insist on Max Holloway. And Conner's like, I'm back, I'm better than ever, I'm feeling better than ever, of course, what's he going to say? Like, I feel like shit, my leg hurts constantly.

He's never going to say that. So, like, you know, is the UFC setting Connor up for failure here? Because, like, him fighting, like, but you know I love Michael Chandler. Michael's my dude. Like, I love Michael Chandler. I've known Michael Chandler since, like, his first fight when he was coming out of the University of Missouri. But Chandler's kind of at a similar stage in his career, like 37, 37, 38 years old. We know he's probably not going to be a world champion now.

We can pretty safely say that. And that Connor fight was kind of built up forever and is not happening. And now Connor's getting a top 10 at worst, pound for pound guy, maybe top 15 after the Ola Verified, maybe drop him down a few spots. But obviously, you know, multi-time Fedaway champion, knocked out Justin Gagee, not that long ago, has beat the brakes on Dustoporri in his retirement fight. Are they setting him up for failure here? Because while this is a rematch, and I know Connor has a win from 2013, I don't know, man. Like, I think we've kind of said honestly, like this does not feel like a great matchup for Connor. Are they set him up for failure here?

Yeah, that's a good question. I'm not sure, man. Because I can also, I can see the argument where you think Connor would have a good chance. You know, for one, it's at 170. You know, Connor has good power, right? At 170. Like, Max is hitable, you know? I mean, he's certainly a hitable guy.

like Connor has a win over him in the past. You know, Max is, is, is, is, Max has been through the ringer, you know, like, like he's, he's got a lot of miles on those tires, man. You know, so I can see where like, you can make that argument that it's not the worst. So, but, you know, I think a lot of that's going to be dependent on Max, right? If he comes in, you know, puts on the weight properly and comes in, uh, himself and feels good and is sharp and everything, you know, I think it's a,

certainly a win for Max, but, you know, he, I mean, he has the, obviously, the experience advantage. You know, he's been staying active in the last few years. So, you know, I think he's got a lot of advantages. But I'm just saying I can see where they have the argument that Connor, you know, has a good shot here. And I can see where Connor would, would see that too. But, man, so I don't, I don't think they're necessarily like setting them up for failure. But, you know, Boy, that's a big risk, you know. And I mean, I'm still going to hold true to my guns that he don't make the walk, man. And I think that's my conspiracy theory is that's why they're going to be stacking the undercard, right?

Because, you know, Connor pulls out last minute after all the tickets are sold. It's like, oh, guys, we still got a fucking great card here. You know, and everybody's still excited about the rest of them and kind of use Connor to pump up the rest of the card. But who knows, man? I'll tell you, like, I don't think that Connor, um, you know at 170 like Connor can knock out Max Holloway right like I think we've seen now like like you know Max again he's hitable right and maybe his maybe they're banking on his chin not being what it once was right like especially like after Ilya you know I mean and that's about that's about all I can guess man I think I think that's a little difficult part about this fight it's all guess work right that's like you know as Connor and I think the UFC kind of plays into that too that's the They like that, right? Like, you know, is Connor going to make the walk?

You know, is he actually going to show up? And is, you know, this fight's at 170 and, you know, is Max still the guy? And, you know, I think there's like so many open-ended questions here. It makes for a lot of excitement and a lot of people to talk about it like we are now. So let me ask you this, Matt. Do you feel like it's never do or die for Connor because he's such a superstar, right? like he could lose and they could still do the Chandler fight. It may not be as big.

It may not be as profitable, but they could still do it. But here's my question. You talk about you just truly don't believe he's going to make that walk. You've been adamant about that for several years now. You've never broken your stance on that. Even when they announce Michael Chandler. They're like, well, I guess he can prove me wrong when he actually gets to the cage. Well, he didn't get to the cage.

And he didn't. When I say last chance, like do or die, is this like he has to fight this time, though? Like whether he loses, wins, gets knocked out, knocks out, whatever the case may be, like, for us to have faith that Connor's still going to have a fighting career, period. Does he have to make that walk on July 11? Because when the Chandler thing happened, he broke his toe. Now, when he came out and said, I would have fought a few years ago, but, you know, coming out of this broken leg and so much time off, like, I don't want to risk it. I understand.

I do understand that point. Like, you don't want to come back at 80% and lose, and people are like, well, see, you're done. You were cooked. You were never, you know, you were never coming back that good. So I sympathize with him a little bit in that regard when he said he broke his toe. But then after he broke his toe, he's disappeared. Like, we didn't hear anything. They didn't, they were like, hey, I'm out.

I'm not going to fight in June, but I'll be back by December. I'll be back by January. None of that. Just off the grid. And we know he wants to, you know, he's talking about BKFC. Obviously, he's a part owner in that. There's a profit there. And obviously now with money floating around, like he could still do the Nate Diaz fight

somewhere or not in the UFC and probably make a lot of money. But for Connor to prove to us he's actually still fighting, like his career is not done. Does he have to make that walk on July 11? Because at some point, like when you say you don't think he's ever fighting again, I think there's going to come a point where the majority of people are going to start really agreeing with you, especially if he doesn't walk on July 11th. Yeah, if he doesn't make this walk, I think it's going to be unanimous agreement like he's done and he's never fighting again.

And then if he doesn't go in there and win, I think it's going to be a unanimous agreement that no one really wants to see him fight again either. Even if he looks good. I mean, if he goes in and loses, I mean, that doesn't mean that people won't watch when he fights again you know if he i mean that's putting a lot of ifs in there right he goes in he actually fights max all the way he loses like i don't see anybody really be an interesting to see him fight again of course everybody watched like he's a big enough star i think he could fight and lose the next five or ten times and like people will still watch

right i mean he's just a big enough star that that's going to be what happens but you know the interest of wayne hugely if he doesn't make this walk and you know and find a way to win. So that's a lot of pressure on his side. And that's again, another reason why I kind of argue he's probably not going to make the walk like he's in the media now. He's getting the attention and keeping his name out there. He's getting the UFC a lot of hype and you know, Google searches and all that kind of stuff. But you know, making the walk is is actually a bigger risk than just not not making the walk and and he can he can kind of live off the whole uh what would you say like what could have been right you know get get injured or something

during camp and and and we'd be like oh man you know he could have done that you know he would have beat max all the way it's all he's got to create that narrative right he he could have beat max all the way but so you know that's a lot of ifs and and and i think again i think that's what this is all about and conspiracy theory wise, right? I think that's kind of what the whole play here is, is let's put all the what ifs out there so everybody talks about it. And it's going to create, you know, so much buzz and excitement. And, you know, I could certainly be proven wrong that he does end up making the walk. But like, again, like, you better fucking win, bro. Like, this is, like, you ain't fought in five years. You're coming off a loss. Like, you got to fucking figure out a way

to win this or the interest is going to go down dramatically. Again, we'll watch, like, we'll watch your next fight, even if you lose, but, you know, who really wants to see it again? I mean, the reality is, like, we just talk about this brand wrist thing. Like, people watch anything. Yeah, there you go, yeah. People watch, like, when I bring this up a lot, like, when Mike Tyson fought Jake Paul in one of the worst fights ever made, you know, he was 58 years old.

He hadn't fought, you know, hadn't fought professional in 20 years. his last match was a sparring match or whatever we want to call with Roy Jones and whatever they're just kind of moving around the ring whatever but people were excited and he did the biggest ratings ever for a fight in history on Netflix so people will watch like people will still watch Connor no matter what he does but in terms of like still feeling like he's relevant and like big time no one was looking at Mike Tyson saying oh he's going to win and go fight Usik no I mean he was 58 years old that was never going to happen and most people were just hoping he would

knock out Jake Paul that's the reality people just wanted him to have like a of the old Mike Tyson and take out Jake Paul's head. There was a little bit of selling that. And listen, we've got to be honest. Nate Diaz did not look great against Mike Perry. He got beat up pretty good by Mike Perry in that fight and MVP. If they book Connor versus Diaz in the UFC or outside the UFC, it's still going to be a big fight. But what are we really gaining in terms like, at that point, we're watching it for nostalgia.

We're watching, oh, man, here's these two guys who put on these epic wars back in 2016, 10 years ago. Yeah. Like we're going to have kind of a little bit that Tyson feel where it's like, oh man, we're getting to see these two guys do you have finished their trilogy. Remember how bad we felt watching Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz fight for the eighth time, whatever was when they did that one, they did that one Golden Boy show? Yeah, that's, which is a great point. People watch anything.

Yeah, but as far as like, I think there's like, there's two worlds. Like Connor's a superstar, absolutely. And when Connor fought Floyd, like, you remember, there were people convinced in 2017 he was going to be Floyd Mayvander. Sure. Like, he wasn't. He was never going to be fully made with a boxing ring. But he was so on top of the world at that point that were people convinced Connor was going to debut against, at worst, the top 25 boxer of all time.

Not top five, but like top 25 boxer of all time, undefeated in the death. And at that point, still kind of peak of his powers. Like that was just coming off. He was still like a very, very, very good boxer. People were convinced. I think that, I think that the narrative switches. If he loses to Max Holloway or he doesn't make the walk, the narrative's going to switch to where he almost becomes like an influencer where it's like oh we're going to see him fight you know whoever like you know fucking you know troll guy or whatever like you know we're going to like i think that's where connor's crew ahead he would still be a star people would still tune in to watch but no one's going to take him as seriously like he goes out of knocks out of max holloway he absolutely should not be getting title shots or anything around the gate but we're going to have that feeling like connor's back right and that's probably my final uh word on this

is look, okay, if Connor makes this walk hypothetically, which he may, he could totally prove me wrong. I don't think he will, but let's say he makes the walk. Whether he wins or loses, I have to have at least some respect for Connor for taking the fight against Max Holloway, a known killer, a guy who's had tons of success since last time they fought. And if he goes in and makes that walk, like it's a gigantic risk for him, right? I mean, he's, I'm sure he understands what's on the line here. Again, like, if he loses his fight, his relevance as a fighter, like, drops dramatically. Again, we'll watch. You know, he could fight another 10 times.

I'm sure everybody will watch. But his relevance as a world-class competitor pretty much drops off the map, right? His next, any fights he does after that, like you said, is kind of like influence or fights or something along those lines where it's like, okay, we'll watch because he's a star and he's going to talk shit and we'll watch for the drama show. But we're not watching because we think this guy is a world-class competitor. If he goes in and wins, he puts himself back in the conversation of a top 10 guy. I mean, you know, I mean, it's a 170.

So, you know, I don't know if they would really talk about top 10 of 170 or whatever. But, you know, but he's a legit, you know, the conversation is like he's a legit fighter still, right? and even through all the partying and alcohol and drugs and everything he's done in the meantime like he came back and and he beat max holloway like that's a respectful thing to do so i think this is a gigantic risk for connor so ultimately like if he goes and makes that walk like i respect the fact that like he's he's going against such a high level great fighter and max holloway if he doesn't make the walk like i still respect him right like i mean you got to respect what connor's done like still all right like still all love for Connor McGregor.

But making the walk, like, that's a high level of respect I will have for him personally. And whether he wins or loses, I think, you know, the world should respect him for at least taking at risk. But you don't think he's actually making the walk. No, I'm going to stick to my guns. I really don't think he's going to make that walk. And it's just, again, when I put all the pieces together, I just don't see where it makes sense for him to do.

I don't see where the UFC. could pay him enough or would pay him enough for it to be worth his time to do this. And especially, again, he's got to understand the risk, you know, and against the Max Holloway. And it just doesn't add up to me. And so again, and that's where, again, if he does, like, you know, my level of respect to go up even another 10 times for him. But, like, it just doesn't make sense to me financially where he would do this. Yeah, I think, like, I've said this before, and I'm not trying to repeat myself from past

podcast, but I said, I think Connor, Connor doesn't want to let go. You know, Conner doesn't want to let go. He's 38 years old. He's obviously very successful outside the UFC, he's a lot of money, got kids, happy family, all this kind of things. But I think it's just one of those things. He doesn't want to let the glory days go. Because at his peak, Connor was the biggest superstar

that's ever competed in mixed martial arts. Anyone that argues otherwise is dumb. He was the biggest star by a wide margin over anybody. Connor over Rhonda, Brock Lesnar, nobody was close to Connor. And at the peak of his powers, when he had that back-to-back matches with Nate Diaz and then knocked out Eddie Alvarez

just made Eddie Albers look like he hadn't fought before and Eddie's a great, Eddie's awesome, Eddie's an incredible fighter. I remember me, I was case-eyed for that. I was like, my God, like this is like watching an amateur against a pro, like this wasn't even a fight. That was the peak of his power. And then obviously, listen, I understand why you go off and do the Floyd fight.

You're making $100 million and, you know, even if you don't win, just show it up against Floyd Mayweather or making a bunch of money good for you, and I'm glad he did it. But this isn't Connor of 2016. It's just, it's 10 years later, and he's been off a five-year-long lap. And he didn't look great in either the dust of Porre fight. He didn't look great.

He had a couple of moments in that first Pori-A fight. Did not look great in the second, and obviously the broken leg, which, you know, not his fault. But I think there's just a little element of that. Like, I don't want to let it go. I don't want to let it go that my fighting days are over because for all the success he's had, all the millions he's made, all the things he's done outside of this, he still remembered as Connor McGregor to fight or first. And I think it's hard to let that go.

just like an element of him. He's like, I don't want to, I don't want to go out where my last image of people was me laying on the ground, holding my ankle and writhing in pain. Like, I don't think he wants that to be the last image of him. So is it a good thing to come? But like, my question on that is like, how much motivation does that bring you through a camp? You know, especially living the lifestyle that he's been living. Like how much, like your whole motivation is I don't want people to remember this, right? That's a, you know, that's like a negative of emotion, right? Like so your your your whole motivation is to change this narrative that people have of you as a fighter versus, you know, it's kind of one of those things like like when guys are

coming up, like why there's there's a lot of times like they're so much more powerful and harder to deal with because they're just bloodthirsty lions coming in with this is this motivation that's so fucking deep in them where you know they're trying to prove themselves and you know, they got all this hunger and desire and they're, you know, they're out for blood, right? And then you get to the top and that's one of the reasons why it's harder to keep it than it is to get there. And it's extremely hard to even get there to begin with. But to keep it can be harder because like where's the motivation now? You know, like these guys, just that simple desire and hunger is such a powerful thing.

That's why a lot of times like you see guys that are better fighters lose to lesser. fighters. They just trained harder and they just put in the extra reps. They put in the extra hours. They went to bed a little bit earlier. They fucking put in one more mile than the other guy. And, and again, that's that motivation thing. And that's like what, you know, again, assuming Connor makes a walk, that that's my biggest fear with him is like, like, where's the hunger at? And it's not just about the money. Like, it's really not. Like, I think that's where people get it wrong. You know, it's not just about the money. But it's more about that inner desire to prove yourself. and to be fucking bloodthirsty, man.

Yeah, well, we'll see. Like I said, we're still a few weeks away from that, but we'll kind of see, like I said, wait and see what they actually happen. Each passing day, we get closer, are we going to get the bad news? We're going to get good news. So I guess we're going to kind of wait and see. Matt, as always, obviously, with this weekend,

there is a UFC card in China. It takes place like 7 a.m. So it's a very early card on Saturday. It's my kind of card. Yeah, Song Yadong against Devis and Figurator, not a bad card on paper. And then we got Darren Till making his bare-knuckle debut this weekend and then we got R.F. on Saturday night. So not a big, not a massive weekend for fights,

but a pretty good weekend for overall combat sports. And obviously, I'm sure we'll have a lot more to talk about as we roll into June and getting that car going. Obviously, we're only a couple weeks away from the White House car now, so that's getting near too. So lots to- I'll tell you, I'll tell you what. I think people are sleeping on this song, Yodong, Davison-Feggerado fight because that's not being talked about a lot. That's a hell of a fight right there. I mean, we'll see how it plays out. You know, I mean, the one thing I could potentially see is song just kind of walking through Davidson, which was about the only way that I see it not being a great fight. But Davidson's a fucking dog and, you know, you got to think he's got to be

hungry wanting to come back and prove himself after a loss and song. I mean, he's just an absolute fucking banger, right? So I think that might be a slept-on card or fight at least, to be honest. And the good thing is, you know, if you don't wake up early on Saturday morning, you watch a replay on Paramount Plus, I do enjoy that. So I'll be honest, probably will watch it that way. I'm not getting up, I'm not a 7 a.m. person. Matt Brown, you are. But, yeah, we'll see what happens this weekend. Obviously, as we said, we're only a couple weeks out from the White House cards. We're going to have a lot to talk about with that card and the implications that.

By the way, after that, I'm not trying to take a shot at MVP, but everyone's, oh, the MVP card is so much better. It's a bigger card. It's not because look at like every fight on the White House card is potential to be in a great fight. So I'm just saying, the White House card is a better card. It's just a better card. I think we all know that. And actually competitive fights because there's a lot of squash matches on that MVP card. There's not on this one.

So, yeah, it's going to be interesting. And I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, I kind of realize we're only like two weeks away now, two and a half weeks away now. So getting close. Matt, where can people check you out? Where can they find you what you got going on when you're not on the podcast? The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. I am the immortal Instagram and Twitter.

And as always, I want to say big thank you for everyone to tune this show. We'll be back next week. Obviously, make sure to check us out on all your favorite

podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and of course over in the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. And we'll be back next week, obviously a lot more to talk about.

So as always, want to say big thank you to everyone that tunes into another edition of the fighter versus the rider. We'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.

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