MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Dana White Claiming Alex Pereira Could Become GOAT, UFC White House Picks and Predictions

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin make their picks and predictions for the entire UFC White House card. Does Justin Gaethje actually have a chance to beat Ilia Topuria? Brown gives his coaching advice on what Gaethje needs to do to win. Plus Dana White claims if Alex Pereira becomes a three-division champion with a win over Ciryl Gane that he becomes the greatest of all-time and jumps over Jon Jones on that mythical list. Is White just playing promoter or is there any merit to what he’s saying? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All vets are in network. Go to fetchpet.com slash save right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet.com slash save. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need.

It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-copy, and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try O-D-U-for-free at O-D-O-D-O-O-O-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-W. Back to the Fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we have finally arrived at UFC White House Fight Week, which means we're actually recording this on a Monday. We'll be recording our podcast next week on a Monday as well because the fights are on Sunday, which is a weird,

weird timing for us. But it is finally UFC White House week. Have you, have you let the excitement wash over you, Matt? Well, we'll see if that happens. There's a lawsuit now, right? Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty pretty sure it's going to happen. No, it's going to happen. But, you know, I think it's pretty exciting, man. I mean, I interviewed Campbell McLaren last week on my podcast, and it was pretty, if people don't know who Campbell is, he was one of the UFC founders, one of the original guys with Art Davies and Horty and Gracie and those and he was right there with that group but you know it kind of put it into perspective when I was interviewing him and talking about you know the hard days of the UFC had at the beginning and it's went all the way from being

banned on cable you know a French sport that was for you know VHSs and for I don't know the underground more or less to being on the White House lawn regardless of your politics well it love Donald Trump, hate him, you know, this is political, it's not political, whatever the fuck. They're on the fucking White House lawn. That's pretty badass. It is pretty cool. Like I said, I don't care how you paint it. It is pretty cool.

Like, who could have, who could have imagined this like a decade ago even? Like, even then, like, Connor was like the biggest star in the world in 2016. That was when Connor was at the peak of his powers. And like, everybody knew Connor McGregor, Ronda, Rousey, so on and so forth. Even then, no one would be like, oh, yeah, we're going to do a card on the White House lawn. Like, it's just, it sounds ridiculous. But, yeah, I mean, listen. The problem is, I think here's the problem is, like, you know, when Dana, when Dana comes

on since it's not political, it's stuff, it just makes people roll their eyes and be like, dude, come on, like, your best friends with Donald Trump, it's never happened before. It's not like you build a football field and decide to do an NFL game on the White House along. Like he did it for you guys because he loves you. And by the way, like it or not, that's how things work, right? Like, you're friends with somebody or you're close with somebody to give you opportunities don't give other people.

But like the whole non-political thing, like, just embrace it, dude. Like, I'm not saying you need to, like, because I hear you. I actually thought about sending an email. I don't know. I'm not, I know you're not a huge political guy. I honestly, I'm not either. But there is a congresswoman from Minnesota named Ilhan Omar. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Okay. She's a big combat sports fan. I remember there was a UFC event like two years ago, three years ago, maybe. I can't remember. Maybe it was during the pandemic or something, but she had tweeted about it. And I was like, what the, I was like, what the fuck? And I tweeted back here and she responded. She's like, yeah, I'm a huge MMA and boxing.

I was like, whoa. Like, just, you know, like someone, you know, you wouldn't see, like, expected to be a boxing roommate fan. And I know she was, you know, she was asking questions during the whole OLLI Act thing. But I thought about asking her, like, did you get a personal invite to go? Because, like, she's a fan, like, a legit fan. But she's obviously a very big Democrat and not Donald Trump's favorite person. And I was like, if this is not political, shouldn't she be, like, getting one of the first invites?

Like, she's a legit fan. Like, not taking part. I don't care if you agree with her, disagree or disagree with her, just like we're talking about. Like, what do you disagree or disagree with Donald Trump? I know she's like a legit fight fan She's tweeted about it I was like Her really?

Okay So if she didn't get an invite And to sit front row Because she is I mean she's a congresswoman That to me is like well there's your There's proof that this is this is political However you want to cut it because I know she's a legit fight fan

Why is she if she's not sitting in front row on Sunday If she's not sitting front row on Sunday Or at least get the invite and turned it down Which who knows That's what I'm saying You can't say it's not political Because like I know she's like a legit fan. If she's not there, then it's political. It is.

All right. Yeah, that's a fair point. You know, I wonder if Biden and Obama will get their invites. I doubt it. I doubt it. But, like, that was the one that popped on my head because I know she's, like, a legit fight fan. Like, she actually, like, she tweets about it a lot. So I was like, yeah, like, if you're a real fight fan, wouldn't you get one of the first invites? No. Okay. Well, yeah. So anyways. But yeah, it's all going down this weekend. Listen, I think at the the end of the day, it's a phenomenal fight card. It's a seven fight card. We talked about, oh, what's the better fight card? This is the better fight card, Matt. Talk to bottom. Like, when you think about all the mismatches that were on the MVP card, there's not really a mismatch.

There's not really a mismatch on this card. There are fights where there are bigger favorites. Obviously, I Elliott Topor is a pretty massive favorite, and I have a very poignant question to ask you about that fight in a minute. But yeah, like all these fights, you can't sit there and say that Justin Gachie has no chance to win. You can't sit here and say that, you know, Cyril Gaun doesn't have any chance to win, or Alex Pereer, whatever. So like on paper, this is like seven fights. It's a really good card. It's a real good card. And I mean, it is probably the biggest card they put on in a long time in terms of star power from top to bottom and good fights from top to bottom. And, you know, I think there's

some fights where people are like, oh, that's a that's a walkthrough for this guy. But there's no like clear-cut walk-throughs, right? I think some people think Tupori is going to walk over Gagee. I don't think that's the truth. I think, you know, shot O'Malley is probably pretty heavily favorite. But again, I don't think those are, you know, the odds never completely tell the story, not always, don't always tell the story of, of a, of a MMA fights. Oh, excuse me. Can you hear that? Be burping to my, you know, that's a, the odds don't always tell the story of these MMA fights. And that's one of the beautiful things about the UFC and MMA that we love is like everybody's always.

always got a chance, dude. It's, you know, sometimes there's, there's people that walk through other people, but there's always a chance, man. There is no, I mean, I'm not, I know we're talking about it because it was like a month ago, but like, there is no Ronda Rousa Gina Crono in this card. Like, there's no fight where you're like, you know, I'm pretty sure it's, and, you know, and not even saying like the 17th second thing, I'm just saying like kind of like a bit of a mismatch. Like, I think probably you mentioned, you mentioned, you know, Tapori, I think like a lot of people are probably picking Diego Lopez to kind of tear through Steve Garcia, but I totally disagree. I think that's a great.

Honestly, I said this when the fight card got made, and I told Steve this one, I interviewed him. I said, I think that's my favorite fight on the card, because, like, there's just such a potential for violence in that matchup. Like, it may last two minutes, or it may go 15 minutes and just beating the hell out of each other, but, like, that is, that might be my favorite fight on the card. And it's probably, it's the opening battle on the car. I think Diego, obviously, man, that dude's a monster. I think what Steve Garcia has kind of done slipping under the radar, just beating the hell out of people, knockouts. He's had, like, finishes in six out of seven, or whatever. I love that fight.

And because it's featherweights and not heavy weights, like you're getting with Hokit and Lewis, like one punch and that could just be over. This one, these guys could literally beat the hell out of each other for 15 minutes. Yeah, and I'll tell you what, with Hockett and Derek Lewis. I mean, Huckett can not get into a brawl like he did with Curtis Blades, right? Because Lewis can fucking punch, man. And when he hits you, it hurts.

He's got the knockout record for a reason. And, you know, unfortunately he's going to keep, you know, if he gets another knockout, he's going to keep extending his lead on me. You know, I don't like that. So I'm rooting for a hockey there. Come on. You got to get it done for me. But this is, I mean, this is legit.

I mean, even like, Bo Nicol, I don't think you consider and say he's just going to roll through Kyle Dachas. Like, Kyle's looked incredible lately, man. He's been going out there killing people since he came back. And I talked to Kyle before the fight. Like, you know, obviously he knows, like the spotlight's going to be on nickel. And he's kind of like the All-American guy. But, dude, I don't, don't, don't discount Kyle Daucus. in this fight, man. This is a really good fight. And like I said, I mean, O'Malley and Amos Zahabi,

like, yeah, I think on paper, you probably think, you know, Malley's a pretty sizable favor, but Zahubbi's been on a good run. I mean, what did he did with Jose Aldo? It was an incredible fight, man. That was a battle. And like, you know, Jose is still Josie. So this is a really, really good card. Now, as we talked about when it first got made, the problem is the UFC built it up, like it was going to be Brock Lesnar versus Connor McGregor versus Ronda Rousey in a, in a freaking triple threat match or some weird shit like that. And that was never going to happen. But and I know Dana said today, I think, or yesterday, like, if Tom Aspinall was healthy, they were going to do Tom Aspinall and Alex Pereira, which would have been a huge fight.

Like, I know Cyril Gahn probably would have been a little bit hurt that he didn't get included in that, but hey, this is the White House big card. But I mean, for what they did, man, for what was available outside of Connor, which, you know, I understand why they're not going to put Connor on a card. They're losing money on. They don't want to, you know, you can't do that with what they're paying Connor, but this is a damn good card. Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be interesting how it plays out, you know, because you never really, sometimes the best look at card on paper is not the best card in reality and vice versa. Sometimes the fucking worst card on paper turns out to be a great card and great fights.

So, you know, it will be interesting because I think like the downside is all these fights do have potential to not be great fights. As much as they have, I mean, it's kind of a 50-50 on most of these fights, right? Like it's, you know, in terms of whether it's going to be a good fight or a bad fight, I don't think this is, I mean, I guess like Diego Lopez and Steve Garcia, like the chances are pretty high. That's a good fight. Ilya, like, has a high likelihood of being a good fight. Pereira gone, a high likelihood of being a good fight. But I could also see this going the other way in all these fights, you know, not really being exciting.

Well, I mean, I think Gaijiy is the one I would guarantee because Tepore is just, are, Gage just, even if he gets knocked out, he just does not understand how to be in a boring fight. So I think that's kind of like a bit of a guarantee. But I mean, I could see Teporia like just sticking and moving and being smart too and not really taking the risk. And I mean, he's never, I'm not saying he's

that guy or he's done that much of the past or shown that. But, but I mean, that's a solid game plan against Gagie, you know? Yeah, no, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. And he's a good boxer to do it. Good enough boxer to do it. We're going to do picks. I think we should do picks on the entire card for this one, but we'll get to that a little way.

But let me start here because as part of the fight promotion, Dana's job, Dana White's job, is to sell the fights. Now, I think this card is going to do well just because it's such a huge card and also because, like, the spectacle of it all, people just want to see what it looks like on TV. But Dana being Dana has to say things to get you interested. One of the things he said last week talking about this fight was the magnitude of Alex Pera's fight, obviously, as he goes, to become the first ever three-division champion. He's already been light, heavyweight, weight, middleweight champion. and now he's going for interim heavyweight, by the way, not the undisputed, but heavyweight. And during the buildup,

Dana White said this, I'm quoting Dana right here. You've got Pereira possibly winning his third world title. If he wins the third world title that night, he jumps over John Jones and becomes the greatest of all time. Now, no one speaks better Dana promoter speak than probably the two of us, because we've been around it long enough to see what, like,

when Dana, remember that one time when Dana was like, when I think they were trying to make, was it Tony Ferguson and Dustin Porre? and they're like, Dustin didn't want to fight. I'm like, come on, Dana. Like, we, come on, Dana. Like, we know, Dustin always wants to fight.

You just, you just didn't want to pay him to fight. Whatever. I care what the fight was, but we're like, come on now, Dana. We all know better than to say, Dustin Porre didn't want to fight. But this feels like promoters speak. You know, you got to build a card. Alex Pereer is the guy, and he's one of the stars. I get it.

But, Matt, is there any world in reality, not promoter speak? Is there any world in reality where Alex Pereer goes out, let's just say he absolutely starches Cyril Ga, knocks him on the first round, becomes three division champion. Does he now become the greatest of all time? Does he jump over John Jones is the greatest of all time? I mean, the short answer is no,

and it's promoter talk. And I mean, it's pretty simple. And we can just narrow it down to that and be like, you know, that's Dana talking what he's supposed to talk. And cool. No one's really buying it. Maybe, I don't know, maybe some Brazilian fan of Alex Prair

that doesn't really watch UFC is buying it or something, you know, knowledgeable person is buying it. But sometimes, like, what gets confused is most accomplished and greatest, you know? And in terms of most accomplished, I mean, I guess if he wins the third title, like, you could make that argument, right? I still wouldn't think it's the case, right? But I could see where you could make that argument, right?

He's got three titles. No one else ever did it. And, you know, I mean, that's like a Floyd Mayweather. Like no real boxing historian puts him down as the greatest ever. But is he the most successful ever? Like by a large margin he is. So, you know, when there's a lot of times when people talk about these greatest ever things, they kind of get them mixed up with other ways of describing their greatness.

Yeah, I think my problem is, is that like we're now in an era where people are jumping divisions and winning multiple titles. They didn't happen before. Like when Randy Couture did it and B.J. Penn did it. It was almost like a freak occurrence. You know, Randy was never a true heavyweight, but he fought a heavyweight, and then he went down to light heavyweight and we're like, oh, this is probably where Randy should have always been. And, you know, obviously he went back up and, you know, obviously when he beat Tim Sylvia and all that kind of stuff.

But, like, and, you know, BJ Penn, like, BJ was never really a Welterweight, but he went up to Welterweight and won the title. Like, good for him. It was a really cool accomplishment. But now, and I've said this before, I'm not knocking the guy, but like, we all got to blame Connor McGregor for this. Because Connor went up, became a two-division champion, and then it became the thing. And, like, don't get me wrong. I think Alice Pereira is awesome. Like, he's an amazing fighter.

But, you know, how many title defenses did he have in middleweight? He had none. He fought and beat Adasania. He fought and got knocked up by Adasania. He left the division. He goes to light heavyweight. Okay, he won the title, very impressively so. He lost to Ankylaev.

And wasn't particularly a great fight. And then, yes, he did come out and knock him on the next fight. But he didn't defend, he did the title one time, I think. And maybe he beat Parshkin. I think he had all the cool roundstree fights. So, like, one title defense, that makes him, you know, and then he goes up to heavyweight. We're just in an air now. Like, are we going to penalize John Jones because he fought a light heavyweight?

He eventually moved to heavyweight, but, like, he couldn't make middleweight unless you locked off his leg. You literally have to, like, literally sever a leg to get him in. So are we going to punish John Jones because he couldn't fight in three divisions? Like, it was not capable of that? Like, George St. Pierre, I know George St. Pierre at one point talked about, like, he probably could have gone to lightweight, but he didn't. Like, are we going to punish George St. Pierre because he never. went to lightweight and won another title or, you know what I mean? Like, to me it's like a really dumb metric because like Pereira is that size and talent that

he could do it. But like, is Islam any less because Islam won lightweight and welterweight and he can't do middleweight? Like, is he really going to, like, I just don't understand like the title thing is cool. Don't get me wrong. But like, in my opinion, like, as John Jones winning the heavyweight title, yes, very cool story. He beats Cyril Gahn in three minutes.

Like, good for him. I'm glad he did. It's a cool accomplishment. Like you said, accomplishment. But what do I remember John Jones most for? Well, I remember him being just an absolutely wrecking machine at light heavyweight and defending the title, like, whatever, like, in different range. Like, it seemed like 14 times or whatever ridiculous number he had between all the other times he had to get up the belt. Or George St. Pierre defending the title at Walterway, which I've always said is like, in my opinion, the toughest division in the sport, defending it nine times.

That to me is way more impressive than going up and winning a race. Like, you know what I mean? Like, Connor, I'm not diminishing Connor. I'm just saying like he beat Joseo Alto, which is incredible. Great win. He never defended the belt. He wouldn't beat Eddie Alvarez. Again, great win.

Never defended the belt. Do I put him in the same regard as, you know, Islam, who defended the belt like five times or Kabib who defended four times? Like, am I putting them in the same category? I can't because, yes, you won the belt. It was cool. But you didn't do anything with it. I just don't get how it's like now we're jumping divisions and somehow John Jones, 10-year reigns. 14 you know undefeated in title fights 18 wins in time what are ridiculous numbers we can go to

a john jones resume Alex prayer in four years has won three titles that makes him the greatest of all time yeah i mean there's nothing to say that you didn't just say there's nothing added to that because it's it's pretty straightforward you know the um Alex is not i don't think he's going to be considered by anybody who knows much of anything to be the greatest of all time if he goes up and wins this fight and you know there there might be like some people say I don't think Dana will I don't I wonder if Dana will even say that after the fight if Alex goes up and wins because it feels me like he's pumping it up now but you know I like I don't I don't know how you make that argument so you know again you can say most accomplished like he did something no one else

is done I mean you know like when I think BJ was the first to do it right or race Andy, one of those two was the first to do. Like, would that make them the greatest of all time? Because they were the first to do it. It's like, no. I mean, we never really made that argument for them back then, even though I think there was a lot of arguments that BJ could have been the greatest of all time and kind of shit the bed and, you know, pissed all that away, I guess.

But, I mean, again, I think, you know, in terms of promoting a fight, that's what he's doing. And there may, you know, and it's, if you're Alex, you got to love the fact that he's, he's saying this stuff right i mean it's helping your brand massively so you know what do you do um that's what a promoter supposed to do is promote the fight and that's what dana's doing so you know good for him and um i'm not sure what it's he's trying to accomplish with it uh you know obviously he's trying to promote the fight i get that but i'm not sure what the the point of it is being that it is the white house card and like you know you still have guys like islam who have potential to be goats in the future, you know, on your roster, you know what I mean? So I'm not really sure. And look,

I mean, also like people, people like Dana, you know, we look at everything he says under microscope, you know what I mean? And everything he says, you know, and he talks a lot. He has to talk a lot. And, you know, maybe it just like crossed his mind in that moment without thinking of anything else. And like, I think we all do it sometimes. We say stupid shit that we're like, ah, man, you know, looking back on it. But then, you know, you know, you know, you know, You know, you already said it. You got to stick to your guns. I mean, I think the problem is whenever you have these conversations and you start picking things apart, you're building up one guy and kind of tearing down another. You know what I mean.

Yeah, that's what the issue really is, right? It's not so much that he's building up Alex Brer and promoting him, but, you know, it diminishes what John or GSP or Anderson or Demetrius or Habib or Islam or, you know, how far do you go down the line, kind of diminishes what all these. guys have done. Yeah, I think like I've always made this argument and it kills me to do it because you know I love Demetrius thing is one of the most talented guys ever but I said when you put Demetrius next to John or GSP one of the reasons I have them

in my personal all-time rankings is because like the level of competition at Flyway was never quite as good at that stage I think it's better now but it took years to build up to that but like that's my that was my argument it's not that I don't like Demetri's Johnson I think he's incredible what he did

with all those title defenses and everything's ridiculous but level of competition matters. And I think when you look at John's record, you think about all the Hall of Famers he beat, all the legends, former champions. DJ just didn't have that opportunity because Flyweight wasn't that big at the time. It's not a knock on him.

I'm just saying, like, that's why I would have him like third or fourth versus one or two. I always put John and GSP as number one and two because they fought in established divisions that had a number of veterans and champions and we knew how good they all were. And you look at GSP when you think about,

you know, Matt Hughes, and you think about, you know, Teago Alves when he was at the peak of his powers and all the, I mean, just a long list of guys he'd be. And Welchweight, as I said it, I've always thought Welchweight is the best division in the sport top to bottom. That's why I always argue, but that's

the problem when you make this argument. You're forced to like build up one guy. And the problem here's what I really have a problem with what Dana said. If you say Alex Pereer becomes the three division champion, it's something that's never been to come before. He's immediately one of the greatest of all time. I would agree with that. I think he's probably got an argument

for that already, just doing what he's done. But when you specifically mentioned, John Jones, then you're making us look at their resumes. You're making us compare them. And then my argument has to become, as much as I like Alex Prairie, I have to kind of tear him down because I'm like, well, you know, he has two losses in the UFC. John has none. And I know, you know, Matt Hamill technically has a winner.

He has no losses. And he didn't get knocked out ever. John never got knocked out or submitted. Well, we saw that happen to, you know what I mean? You start nitpicking to make these arguments. Yeah. And like I said, I think what Alex has done is incredible. If he wins the third title, very, very cool.

Although I'm going to mention it. I know people are going to hate hearing this, but it's an interim title. It's not the disputed title. I think that's got, context matters. You know what I mean? Context matters. But like, that's what you're, when you specifically mention John Jones, now you're making us compare them.

And to me, there's no comparison. It's not a knock on Alex Perez. John Jones, what he did over like, you know, 15 years is ridiculous. Yeah, and what really sucks is it starts to really feel little boxing this. right where you know so many guys move away classes and i mean this guy moving a weight class fighting for an undisputed title not even the real title he's moving a weight class for it and i mean it just reminds you a boxing right with guys moving all over with different weights like finding the right matchups for their weights and you know finding titles to win at different weights and um and look like

i'm a boxing fan you're a boxing fan we don't mind that right like i i don't hate on that but one of it's always been cool the way the UFC has been separated from that and the way that they've always promoted themselves to be separated from that and they're different and you know the best fight the best and we don't have too many belts and all this bullshit but that's what it feels like another step towards and you know if that's the path they want to go down I just think it's a slippery slope yeah so let me ask the fight itself Cyril gone very good and especially in striking we saw we started out against Tom Aspinall before the day I post we assume he's done in the past

very, very dynamic striker, big dude, so legit heavyweight, taking on Alex Pereira, who of course, one of the nastest kickboxers of all time, obviously one of the nastest strikers ever coming to MMA. So which way are you lean on this one, Matt, because I think a lot of people are just automatically picking Pereira because he's the name, the star, obviously huge knockout power of those kind of things, but I think people kind of forget, like Cyril Gaon is very, very good on defeat. The times he's lost has been, you know, Ingandu taking him down, Jones choking him out,

things like that. When he's on the feet, man, he's lethal. So I'm kind of curious. How do you see this one going? Who are you picking? I mean, this is about as 50-50 of a pick as you could get, I think. Because, like you said, we don't really know how Alex is going to handle things at heavyweight, right? I mean, we don't know how he's going to handle that power, how well he's going to move. And, you know, I mean, there's so, so many questions. to figure out on that. But if I just have to make a pick, I'm just going to lean towards Surreal Gone. I just think he's faster. I mean, he's certainly going to be faster. I think that's pretty much said stone. And when a guy moves up to heavyweight, you know, especially coming from 185 at one point, like, you know,

and Alex is a big guy. I know that that's an X factor here to take into account. but, you know, I'm going to go with Cyril Gahn. We just don't know what Alice can do at heavyweight. I don't know if his power is going to carry over the same. I don't know if he can handle the power the same, take the shots the same. And Seril Gond, I mean, he's proven at heavyweight. You know, we know where his weakness is, grappling.

Well, he's happened to be going against a guy that's probably not going to grapple him. Yeah, it's so funny. I thought it was going to be the slick surprise pick, but I'm also going Cyril Gond. I think the speed, the kicks, the punching power, and Cyril Gond's always shown a good chin, too. Now, obviously, you know, you can get hit on the heavyweight and you go down, no matter how good your chin is. We saw Roy Nelson, Marc Hunt, guys with legendary chins eventually get knocked out. But I just think, I just think the speed factor is a big one here because Cyril God is super fast. And also, you got to remember, like, I know you can say why Alex was kind of playing the Floyd Mayweather game,

kind of picking him apart and kind of figuring him out. But remember, you know, Kululow, Roundtree didn't have a bad performance against Alex starting that. the fight. Now, Alex eventually, you know, chipped him away, chipped him away and got, you know, basically started beating him up later in the fight. But, you know, Colo Roald Tree is like, you know, whatever, like five inches shorter than Alex, you know, he's not a, you know, he's not a tall, big, light heavyweight. Surrogon's a legit big heavyway, you know what I mean? And I know he's been bringing in guys. He brought in a ton of glory guys to help him out. I know he brought in Arden Vacatoff, the guy who beat Pereira in, in glory at one point. Um, he's brought in,

I think the current glory heavyweight champion came over and was trained with Cyril Garland. I think he's brought in, like, you know, different training partners. I can't imagine Pereira's going to go out there and die for legs and go for a takedown in this fight. And even if he did, I don't know that's really his best move either, even though Seeroghan has shown a weakness in that. But I just think the power and speed, I mean, listen, I know what we're getting with Seerogon. We can sit here and say, like, they've given him 19 deadle shots or whatever it is. But he's legitimately a very, very good heavyweight. You know what I mean?

A very, very, very good heavyweight. And I just think that, like, going from middleweight to light heavyweight, didn't seem like even though it is a big 20 pound jump. Pereira was like just a massive dude. I know he's still a massive dude to heavyway but that's just a big jump man going from 205, Niagara Walk around 245 and like I don't know man. I just like I don't know if everyone's built for it and I think striking wise, Surrogon's as legit as they come. So I'm I'm with you man. I'm leaning to throw it. I thought it was going to be the surprise pick going with Cyril Gong but I'm going to Surrogon as well. Yeah, I'm actually surprised that

that that's an odd pick really. you know i mean he's moving up to heavyweight and i i guess i'm not surprised right because the problem is that you know surreal gone has like his biggest fights have all been losses at heavyweight so he's kind of viewed as you know not the best guy at heavyweight and Alex you know it's like removing all all weight you know not taking that to account you're like well well surreal you know lost his last fight and um you know Alex is killing it right and you know it's all the hype right And that's when we're picking, when we're making picks like this, we're picking on paper, right? Just what we guess is going to happen.

Yeah. And on paper, Surreal should have an advantage here. Right? I mean, like you said, he's, he's going to be faster. You know, and Alex is moving up. Like, Surreal's a big motherfucker. Like Alex, as big as he is, I mean, he was still able to make 185. Right.

somehow right I don't know how the fuck he did he's a gigantic guy but he was able to make it do I think surreal gone could make 185 if he wanted to I don't think he could like I think he would he'd go the hospital half dead before he would make 185 so you know when you take it to account those things it's just it's hard to to pick Alex you know and and and the other part too is like Alex most of his wins like he doesn't always I should say most but a lot of his wins like he doesn't look totally great like he ends up catching guys with that big hook you know and i can see that happened against cybro gone but that's not something to make a pick based on right especially a heavy weight like how is his power going to carry over i don't i don't know who the biggest guys he fought

in glory were but i remember him fighting you know around 185 whatever their weight classes and kilos but he was fighting guys you know around that weight and um you know i'd i'd I just, you got to pick the more experienced guy at that weight. I agree. I totally agree. Okay, so I said I had a question for you about the Justin Gachie, I'll eat atopori fight. We did not plan this.

I'm giving it to you off the cup, but I want you to answer this, Matt, because in addition to your own fighting career, you turn into a tremendous coach. I know you've always talked about how much you love coaching and how you believe one day you will become a better coach you ever were a fighter. So I'm going to put the coach Matt Brown on the spot here.

We all know the odds. We all know the picks. Everyone's picking Elliott Topori. Let's be honest about that. I think a lot of ways, Rightfully so. The dudes looked phenomenal. He's taking out legend after legend after legend.

He's an incredible boxing, huge power. And what he did to Charles Olivaire was like, damn. I think everyone's like, oh, maybe Charles will give him a fight. Not so much. So here's my question, Matt. As a guy who has been around Colorado and knows a lot of the people he works with, Trevor Whitman, obviously, Kumar Usman, the guys that are out there, and obviously you train in Colorado for a lot of years.

Here's my question, Matt, Matt, Brown. How does Justin Gachie win this fight? What does Justin Gachie need to do? to find a path to victory against Ilya. Look, if I'm coaching Justin, like we're hitting those leg kicks, calf kicks all day. Like, that's got to be a huge part of the game plan.

I mean, Ilya does not fight in a style that's conducive to being leg kicked a lot, right? I mean, you know, he's very boxing heavy. He's very front leg heavy. And Justin has great leg kick. So I say, fucking spam that shit, bro. throw it hard as you can.

You got to chip away at them and hopefully you can get him a little bit less mobile and laying that big shot, you know, to get him into a battle. And I was just talking about this year today, you know, the other kind of X factor in this fight that we can't make any predictions based off of, but I think it's something, you know,

that's not really been talked about is as far as I remember. Remember I made the prediction earlier this year that Ilya comes back too early and loses. I'm not going to pick Justin Gagey because I don't think that that's, you know, the smartest pick here, but I'm picking Elliott's point. I'll be clear on that.

But the X factor is that he didn't want to come back this early as far as I know. And he wanted to wait and get through this whole divorce thing. And, you know, and then the White House opportunity came up. So he came back and, you know, took this fight with the White House opportunity. like his mind may not have been all the way there through this whole camp and i feel like the the x

factors like just engage is not to do that you want to go in against with your mind not fully in the fight will that play a factor i could be shooting from left field and be completely off on this but it's something to think about because like they didn't have a good divorce from the the public perception from the outside looking in right a woman can make it very fucking difficult on you I've been through it I guarantee a bunch of listeners have been through this shit like and especially with a kid involved a pretty significant amount of money involved like this could have been a lot of fucking headaches and if he wasn't ready to come back and he comes back and he's

facing Justin Gagey that's something to take into account that's all I'm not I'm not going to pick just to gauge you because, you know, the way Ilya has fought, I mean, it's hard to find anybody to pick against him. But it's something to take into account. I agree. I totally agree. And I'm with you. I'm picking Elliott to Porto to win this. Let me ask you this question, Matt.

And I was thinking about this earlier because Justin over the last couple of years has become a lot more technically sound. He stopped just getting into these giant brawes and things like this. He's been, you know, he did it when he fought Pori in the rematch. He was very technically sound, stayed composed. He got caught early, came back, head kicked him, and not. knocked him out. And I think he had that same game plan against Max Holloway, and then he got caught with that spinning back fist to the nose, or spinning back kick to the nose, and it just messed him up for the rest. If I'm not making shoes why he lost, I'm just saying,

like, I think that totally took him off his game and he couldn't breathe. And I get it. Like, that's part of fighting. When he went in against Patty Pimblett, my thought was like, you know, we're going to see a more reserved, like, and he went out there and kind of just brawl with him and proved like Patty, Patty couldn't hang with him in that regard. He couldn't. He beat up Patty pretty much for the entire fight. It was super, super impressive. And he really put on Patty. Patty couldn't get him down. It was a pretty one-sided fight. So here's my question, Matt. Am I wrong in thinking that Justin might want to, I agree with you on the cupcakes, but I might

want to revert back to the old Justin Gagey because I don't think you can out technique Ilya Tupori. I don't think you can go out there and have like a really crisp sound boxing mesh and expect to be to Lillia Tepore. I think you've got to go out there and kind of wing the punches and throw him off a little bit because you remember the one fight he had in the UFC that went five Browns was to fight with Josh Emmett. Now, Josh Emmett's a good fighter, but he's not like an elite number of, you know, and Josh Jim is not the greatest box in the world. He just, he has

haymakers and he will scare you away because he can knock you out in one punch. I think Bryce Mitchell is still waking up from that knockout he had a couple years ago against Josh Emmett. And yes, Ilya beat the hell out of him. It was a pretty one-sided fight, but you notice there's a lot of moments in that fight where Ilya didn't like go crazy because he had to beware

of that Josh Emmett power. So my question is like, is it, is it smarter for Gachie to like not go out there and trade out technique like kind of like you know patty just like not say their caution to the win i don't think any fighter should do that but like don't go out there and say let's match our boxing let's see who's the better striker like go out there and make it ugly because i feel like that might be his best path to victory yeah absolutely it i mean the saying has been around for a hundred years you know you you you don't box with a boxer and brawl with a brawler right you brawl with a boxer and you

box with a brawler and i mean that's 100% what you do if you're just engaging i would be adding in to that brawling a lot of leg kicks. I finish everything with a leg kick. You know, set everything up with a leg kick. Like, keep chopping on that fucking leg. I think that's his key to victory 100%. Go to the legs, especially the calf. If you can start catching that calf a little bit.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with him throwing a takedown in there, or at least threatening a takedown. And I've said it for a long time. Like, at some point, you know, he's got to use that, right? He has it. We know that he has it. But it's like at some point, is he just, is he just been kind of keeping it in the back pocket for that big moment

when no one's expecting it? And maybe this would be that big moment finally where he decides, okay, now let's at least threaten it. You don't have to even get the take down. But have Ilya, you know, on his heels a little bit, where he's got to think about what you're doing and not just sitting there picking and pecking away at you until he gets that big shot.

Because, I mean, that's the way Ilya fights. And that's what he's probably going to do. do and that's what I'm a pick him to do but um you know it's definitely an uphill battle for just engage in this fight um you know matchup wise you know just seems like a bad matchup through and through but i think there are ways for him to win for sure like this isn't just a blowout like justin has better technique than people give him credit for too you know i don't think this is a blowout that people expect it to be um but it certainly could if justin goes out there and doesn't use any, you know, any strategy at all.

If he just goes out and just kind of hopes for the best and wings, punches, which I don't think he's going to do. But, you know, he's got a better shot. The odds should not be what they are in this fight, I don't think. Yeah, I agree. And it's funny because I remember what Kabim said after he fought Justin. Fight lasted two rounds, less than two rounds. And Kabim said that's the most damage ever taken in a fight.

He went one and a half rounds with Justin Gagy And he's like that's the most one of the toughest guys ever fall He put on damage on me I've never had done to me before From just the leg kicks and stuff in the first round So I like I know I'llia is like two minute knock And maybe he will because Lord knows Ilya Tabor is capable of that But if he doesn't If he doesn't get that early finish

And Justin just starts chipping away at him And that becomes a very interesting fight Because Justin will be there for all five rounds Like he will not go away until the fight is over And that dude can take some damage Now can he get knocked out? we've seen it happen several times, so it absolutely can happen.

But, yeah, I'm picking Ilya. I think Ilya is going to win. I think Ilya is probably the number two pound-for-pound fighter in the sport behind Islam. But I don't think there's a world where you can go out there and just say, oh, yeah, Justin's not going to show up. Justice's not going to perform.

Justin's just going to fold. The dude is incredible. Like I said, even with a broken nose against Max, he wouldn't go away. And then it was the point down and the fucking crazy floor at the end to put him out. But that dude will stick around. He will still, so, yeah, like, I think it's

like, I guess is like, Ilya does win this fight and looks like Ilya Tupori and proves once again he's the best of the world. But I don't discount that Justin could go out there and find a way to win. That dude just knows how to – like I said, every single person that goes into a fight with Justin Gage, he comes out saying, I felt like I went to a car crash. I won, but I went to a car crash. That, I wonder, is, you know, can I deal with that? We've not really seen him in those bad situations. So, you know, it's a question you have to raise.

I'm picking Ilya to Poria, but it's a question you have to raise. And look, it's not like Ilya is completely invincible either. look, we have seen him in a bad situation. Or Jay Herbert, right? Like he was in a bad situation. He worked his way through. I'll tell you what, if Justin Gagey is able to catch him the way Jay, Jay Herbert did, I think Justin might get a finish on that, right?

Like Justin is a hell of a good finisher and he comes after. I think Justin has the best mindset in him, man. I think he's one of the mentally strongest people in the sport. I think he's very smart. I think he's way more tactical than people give him credit for because I think he doesn't always show his tactics and it looks maybe

not as clean as we would like to see but you know I think he's a great tactician and I think but more than anything I mean I think his mindset is top notch and that's again where I'll go back to like Iliad better handle this pressure properly. You know, he's expected to win.

He's the favorite. Like, no fighter really likes to be the favorite every time. You know, like we like to have that pressure being the underdog. And again, with this divorce thing, could that have added a little bit onto it? You know, who knows what happened to him financially in that sense? And, you know, does he actually need this fight for money or anything? I mean, there's a lot of, I think, X factors in this fight beyond just one. It's on paper.

On paper, which is what we're going to have to go with, right, for a pick. On paper, Ilya beats him, you know, I think just matchup-wise, Ily is the better fighter and probably beats him pretty handedly. But I think there's a lot of X factors, and I think Justin could surprise people here in this fight. I agree. I never kind of just against him. Never, yeah. Just a grueling battler, man.

He will go in there and make it ugly and find ways. Like I said, I thought I picked Patty to beat him. I thought, oh, yeah, it's time. You know, passing the guard kind of. the thing. Nope. That went to complete opposite way. Justin just beat the hell out of Patty. So yeah, so you never know. I said, I don't think that was a good pick in my opinion. No, you're not wrong. You're saying in the moment. I was just like, I'm like Patty Patty. Patty it looked really good up to that point. Then I kind of forgot, you know, who he'd beaten.

We don't have to revisit that conversation. I was wrong. I'm happy to admit I was wrong. But yeah, like I said, I just don't think you can go into Justin Gage fighting. The thing with Justin Gage is like he doesn't look like an Elliott support where Ili is like clean and smooth. and finesse and power and like Justin doesn't look like that guy right and and the way he fights right he doesn't look like that guy but he knows like one of the keys and I talked with my fighters about this all the time like one of the keys like knowing yourself and mentally and physically knowing what you're capable of and how what works for you the best and I think Justin knows himself really well and knows what works for him and knows how to accomplish um

really high things, really good things with his skill set. You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree. I don't know if that makes sense. No, it does. It makes total sense. Like I said, I think it's a close for fight to people give it credit for, but it could also not look like a closer fight.

It could be Ilya going out there and just looking like Ilya Taboria. Like I said, I thought Max Holloway would have a better fight against I, and Ilya just dismantled him and knocked him out. I didn't see that coming. You know, the way to be Volcanowski so handily. Like, again, this is the guy who's on top of the world for a reason. I just, like I said, any time you put Justin Gachian, I'm like, yeah, you can't count on Gagey. The dude's just got that ability to just draw people into a dog fight and finds a way to win it.

So I think it is a good fight. You know, I'm with you. I think I'll win, and probably wins pretty handily. But, you know, it's Gagie, and you can't just count him out. You just can't say, oh, no, he has no chance. He has a chance. That's it. We're not going to go, we're not going to fully break down every single fight.

We are going to do picks this. So let's just go down the line here for the rest of the card match. Sean O'Malley, Amman is a hobby. Who are you picking? I think O'Me. is probably favored to win here pretty heavily. Amon's looked good, but, you know, obviously a big step up here going against a former champion and a guy like O'Malley.

So who are you picking in this one? Yeah, you got to go, Sean Amelie on that one. Yeah, I like Sean, too. I think his striking is good. And, yeah, I like Amon. I think Amon's good, but I just, I'm not ready to give up on O'Malley, you know, just, yeah, I think he's still very good. Yeah, it's just like a, this seems like a fight that's Taylor made for Sean to win, right?

It really does. Ammon's more of a striker going to probably. going to stand with them more than not. And, I mean, Sean's just a fucking sharpshooter, man. He's a sniper. And Amon's not real. Again, you got a brawl with the boxer and box with the brawler. And Amon's more of a sharpshooter too, right?

But just not as good of a sharpshooter as Sean. I agree. I agree. All right. Here's the heavy weights. Josh Hokit versus Derek Lewis. I'll go first here. I'm picking Josh Hokit.

I'm picking Josh Hokit for a couple of reasons. But here's my biggest one. You know, Derek is 41, 42 now, a little older. When he fought his last fight against Waldo, Cortez-A-Coste, he did not look good. Like, he looked, he looked, you know, kind of out of shape and just out of sorts. And listen, man, the sport passes everybody by at some point. And while I think Derek's probably going to be motivated because everyone knows, like, Trump loves him and he got on the card, literally because Trump was like, where's Derek Lewis on this card?

I'm sure he took it seriously. But I just think that we're at the tail into Derek's career, and I don't know what we're going to get out of him. And I don't, listen, I don't particularly love Josh Hocke, his whole pricking stupid persona and all the crazy things he says and does. And I'll be honest, I don't know that I pick him to be a legit threat to the heavyweight title because he's still like ultimately a very small guy for heavyweight. Like that will eventually come back to bite you when you're, you know, six foot one and, you know, 230 pounds. Like you're going to go against bigger guys and I think that's eventually going to prove Hokic should probably be a light heavyweight. but I just think Hokit's wrestling. He's got good enough skills there.

And I just don't know where Derek's had, man. Like I have more question about Derek Lewis in this fight. So I'm going with Hokit, probably by knockout. You know, maybe getting Derek down and just ground and pounding him. That's probably my guess. I'm with you on that one. I'm going to go with Hokit. And I got to tell you, you know, the reason is I think this is Hokka's fight to win or lose, right?

It's going to be kind of his choice. If he does try to brawl with him like he did with Curtis Blades, I mean, I think he's going to, I think Lewis will beat him. But we know, like, Derek doesn't really have really any ground game to speak of. And Hokka's a hell of good wrestler. So I think Hokka could just take him down and beat him. The problem is if he gets kind of drawn up into the, you know, put on an exciting fight at the White House type thing, right? And he wants to throw it.

You know, he kind of did that with Curtis a little bit, right? Like, let's make us an exciting fight. And if he wants to do that, you're giving Derek a chance. And Derek doesn't have to land a bunch of shots, big combos or anything to put you to sleep. So I think, uh, Hokit, this is his fight to win or lose. He can't play the, he can't play the same game with Derek Lewis. He didn't do with Curtis Blades. He can't play that game because Curtis's got power.

He doesn't have Derek Lewis power. No, Derek will put you out right away. And so again, you know, I think it's his fight to win or lose. Yeah. So now this one actually might be the one that's probably the most, probably lopside in terms of the odds by being honest. and that's Maricio Rufi against Michael Chandler. You know, Ruby's looked great. Obviously, he had that one loss in there,

had been while St. Denis, but outside of that, he's looked incredible. I mean, just spinning back kicks, just nasty, striking, devastating dude. And Michael Chandler, let's be honest, has not been on a great run. I mean, he's, you know, a couple losses to Charles Olivera, lost to Patty Pimbled. You know, he's not looked great in his last few fights. So, Matt, which way are you going on this one? Is it Marisi a roofier or is a Michael Chandler?

I mean, I have to think everybody going with Rufi. It should be pretty good odds on that. And, you know, he's not. seems to, unless Chandler actually goes for takedowns and works some ground and pounds, tries to wear him out, or then his only shot has really just landed a big punch on Ruffy, because I think Rufi's striking is multiple levels above Chandler's. Yeah, I mean, listen, you know, Chandler is a very, very good fighter, but this kind of feels a little bit like the passing of the guard in a way.

Like, Rufi, and Rufi just knocked out Haphael Fiziv. I mean, that's a good striker. That's a really good striker. You praised Fizzee on this show many times. I'm about how impressed you were with him. And Rufie picked him apart and knocked him out. To me, this is like the one fight where I'm just like, yeah, I don't see this going well for Michael Chandler. Like this is just like he's been, you know, obviously he's always been kind of a brawler.

I like to go in there and have these kind of like crazy good fights. But, you know, he's on a three-fight losing streak. None of those three fights were particularly great. He lost to Oliver, lost to Patty and lost to Dustin Porre. His one win in that time span is Tony Ferguson. I don't think Tony's quite at the same level. was, you know, back in 2019. So, yeah, I mean, I think this is Rufi's fight to win, unless the pressure gets to him,

which, you know, he's Brazilian. This isn't for his country. He's not fighting in front of his president. So, like, I feel like this is a Rufi highlight. Honestly, I hate to say that because, you know, I love Michael Chandler. That's my dude. I've been with him since Missouri, since he's left college. I've been interviewing him.

He's a great guy. But, man, it just, I don't know, man. I don't know. I like Chandler's chance against Connor, but I like his chance against Rufth, if I'm being honest. Agreed. Yeah, agreed. Yeah.

And it's really, if Michael Chandler just happened to fight just right, you know, I think he could win this fight, you know, start with the takedowns, put him on his back, which I think he could do, you know, I think he could put him on his back and land some ground to pound, chip away at him a little bit, and then maybe in the later rounds then start going for those big shots, right? When he's got the threat of the takedown out there and he's got Rufi on his heels a little bit, that's pretty unlikely to happen. Chandler's probably going to swing for the fences and try to knock them out.

And I think that's going to give Rufi an opportunity to land big shots all over the place. Yeah, 100%. I agree. Kyle Dawkus and Boe Nickel, another one that's like feels like the world's picking Boe Nickel, but I'm telling you, man, don't discount Kyle Daka. So who you got on this one? Because like I said, I think, you know, I understand, like Nichols is the easier choice, but I just refuse to think this is just going to be like Kyle Daucus is going to lay down and play dead.

Yeah, but I'm going to go with nickel pretty handily for this one, though. And, you know, I like Doccas and think he's got a lot of talent. I just think he's a really bad matchup for him. You're probably right, but I'm going with the episode. I'm going with Kyle Docas. And here's why. Obviously, Bo's a very, very good wrestler. And we saw in his last fight, he got a knockout, headkick knockout,

which is super impressive. But, like, I don't know, man. There's just some of the way Kyle's been fighting since he came back to the UFC, like a purpose. Like he left the UFC, not on a great run comeback. And he's, like, really motivated. and I've always liked Kyle Dawkins. He's got great submissions.

His striking's on point. He's actually a legit middleweight. I don't know, man. I think there's a chance for an upset here. I think it's like, you know, okay, you can discount me all you want. Bo Nichols is an All-American guy, whatever. I think there's a world where he goes out there and catches him in like a dars choke or something because he's got a really, really good dars.

And, you know, Bo's going to be shooting for takedowns. He catches him in a headlock. Boom, catches that dars and could get him. So I'm actually going to go Kyle Dawkins in the upset here. I mean, it's understandable. I think, again, I think Bo, this is just a great matchup for him. I think he's going to be real tough guy to submit. His stand-up is getting a hell of a lot better all the time.

And, yeah, I think this is just a great fight for Bo, honestly. Yeah, you're probably right, but I like to pick an upset. Speaking of upsets, I'm going to pick another one. The opening card of the night, Steve Garcia, Diego Lopez, I'm picking Steve Garcia to win in this fight. Now, I don't know that it's going to be a knockout or anything like that. I don't know that he's necessarily going to get Diego Lopez out of there. I just, I don't know, man.

There's something about Steve Garcia to run he's been on how discounted he's been going into this fight. And I get it because Diego is a two-time title to contender one to top five federates in the world. But I'm just a big believer in Steve Garcia. I mean, I think he's got power. You got a great team around him, obviously, training with Jackson, Winklejohn, those guys out there, that kind of lineage of great coaching and great fighters. And as good as Diego has been. And also, listen, if you want to talk about the Tuporia thing, you know, where, like, Diego's kind of a no man's land right now.

He has two losses to the current champ. He ain't getting a third fight with Volcanowski. not anytime soon anyways. And Volcanoxie's like close to 40, so probably I'm going to be around anyhow. But like, I don't know. Like, where's your head at? Like, are you in it as much?

Like, we've seen that happen before when guys lose title fights and they just kind of drop off a little bit because that motivation's not there. I don't know of him losing two title fights in a row is the greatest thing for him. So, yeah, I'm actually going to go with Steve Garcia this fight. You know, I'm going to go with you on that with the Steve Garcia. And that's a tough one, you know, to do

because, like, I think Diego should be able to beat him. Right? Like Diego's a fucking savage, man. He's an absolute savage. But one thing like you see in boxing a lot of times, after you lose a big fight, like they give you a tune-up fight. And that's because of the reasons you just talked about, right? Your confidence is a little bit fucked up. You know, you might have taken some damage. Like a lot of different reasons, right?

And they want to build you back up. Steve Garcia is no tune-up fight. I could tell you that much, right? I mean, you know, he's certainly ranked a lot lower and hasn't done as big things as Diego. but he is not a fucking tune-up fight, and this is not the guy to come back to after losing two times to Volcanovsky. So for those reasons, I'm going to go with Steve Garcia. I like it.

Now, I'm with you, though. I think Diego's favorite for a reason. I think Diego's that good, but there's just that little concern. Like, how do you come back from that? And, you know, because I've never been a huge fan of pushing guy. Like, it wasn't like the first five of Volcanowski was close, and I was never a fan of pushing back into a slightly second title fund.

Of course, you're Diego Lopez. Of course you're going to take it. but like, in my opinion, I'm like, let him build up a little bit more. Let him get, you know, 3-4 fight momentum streak and then go back for the title. But now you kind of stuck him in No Man's Land because he doesn't have the belt. And, I mean, I guess like if Mozart beats him, but he already hasn't lost to Mozart too. But it's like, you know what I mean? Like you're kind of stuck in No Man's Land a little bit if you're Diego Lopez.

So is the motivation change? Are you as excited for this? I don't know. So, yeah, for those reasons, I'm going Steve Garcia. Seven fight card. Man, I tell you what? You talk about back in the day we used to. you'll crave UFC cards because we get one every year, like three months or two months or whatever.

I'm digging a seven-fight card, Matt. Let me tell you, Sunday night starts at 8 o'clock p.m., not going to go super late, seven fights, two title fights. I'm like, you know what? I can deal with more UFC cards like this. Well, we're going to see if it goes super late. That's the big question is the pacing is what I'm curious about. How they're going to, because I've read some things about they're going to do a bunch of like history of America stuff.

And I mean, all that's cool. You know, I respected. I love America, too. like everyone else and it's great but like I'm watching because I want to see fights man I like see a good pacing and I don't want to sit around and be watching other stuff all night you know I want to get to the fights and then and then get to bed so yeah so it's gonna I anticipate this probably going past midnight and I just I don't like them staying up past midnight and and and I'm feeling forced to stay up past midnight on this one because it's you know you got to

see Pereira gone you know i don't want to wait till the next morning to watch this so i'll be staying up and uh yeah so hopefully it's over by then though i just i don't think it will yeah i'm rooting for i'm rooting for an 8 p.m start and like an 1130 ending i think that'd be like ideal that would be perfect yeah yeah so but we'll see obviously we'll see how the pacing goes seven fights all altogether isn't too bad so we'll see how it plays out and like i said like everyone else i'm curious how it's all going to look so uh we're going to be back next week to break down everything that happens, obviously we're recording on Monday because the fights are on Sunday.

So we've lots to talk about the fallout from the White House card. And then at that point, we start gearing up for next weekend. By the way, hell of a fight next week. And Manel Cop and Keoggi-Horoguchi, that's a great fight. And then obviously we're, you know, a month away from Connor McGregor, allegedly coming back. So we'll have lots to talk about in the coming weeks. But obviously next week, it's going to be all about White House fallout, see what happens in there.

So as always, Matt, where can people check you out? They want to find out what you got going on outside of this podcast? At I'm the immortal Instagram and Twitter, the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. And as always, we appreciate everyone tuning in. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and, of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com.

For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of The Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Support for the show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.

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