MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Dana White’s Testimony in UFC Antitrust Lawsuit Plus What Fight Will Headline UFC White House?

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to Dana White’s testimony in the UFC antitrust lawsuit where he confessed that he no longer deals with any fighter contracts or negotiations and rarely gets involved in matchmaking for the UFC. We’ll also discuss the hype surrounding the UFC White House main event and how fans might be in for a surprise when the final card is announced. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. Matt, you are traveling. Are we allowed to say where you're at? Is this like a secret or something? No, of course, bro.

I'm in the beautiful city of medicine, Colombia. How is Colombia? Beautiful, man. This is the best weather in the world here, bro. They call it the land of the Eternal Spring because it's always between 65 and 75 degrees, year, round. That's like San Diego.

It's why I like San Diego. It's always like that same weather every year around. That's why I love San Diego so much. No guesswork. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Man, it's so green here and everybody's awesome and everybody's real nice and friendly.

You know, and we're here getting some stem cells from Stim Cell International. Shout out to those guys from Hockeme Yubman. And, you know, it's the next level of stem cells is here. Everybody goes to America against their stem cells. Well, a lot of people do. and man, they don't know what they're missing out on, bro. Like, once I've gotten, done the research and learned about, educated about the stem cells and what they're doing here, I don't even know if I would want to get them in America again, even, you know, some of these sponsor deals.

I don't want to get too deep into it, but correct me wrong, because you know this stuff better than I do. I've always heard the, like, the medical advances in other countries, like with stem cells, they are allowed to do more because they haven't just approved it here in America. but like everyone like i remember when dana white talked about he had to go to germany to get like a stem cell treatment because you couldn't legally do it in america but like it's all medically approved it just hasn't been medically approved in the u.s is that is that right yeah that's a little bit of it and you know i don't know why it's being stalled in america like why it is the way it is in america i guess you know it's a bureaucratic you know political i mean lord knows how corrupt all those the motherfuckers are. I mean, we got the Epstein files coming out,

and every one of these cock suckers is involved. So, you know, I don't know what's going on with it. But, yeah, when you come here, you know, this is where I'm learning all this. This is where most of them are made right here in Columbia, the stem cells. So I'm getting them fresh, you know, like day one, right? In America, you're getting them frozen. And the ones that don't meet the requirements here get shipped to America, and they get frozen and sent there.

And, you know, I mean, that's just the tip of the iceberg, too. I mean, for some reason, America, they got some limit on how many you can give. It's like, here, I can get literally 20, 30, 40 times more in one shot. And it's like, why is it like that? You know, I don't know. So, you know, as I say about once a week, scroll through Twitter, fuck the politicians, right? Just another reason to say, fuck a government, fuck a politician. I love it. I love it. Well, Matt, it's kind of funny because there's not a whole lot going on.

Obviously, I want to give a congratulations this past weekend. Mario Batista got a huge win in the UFC, Kioji, or Gucci, got a huge win in the UFC. But no event coming up this weekend, but I did want to talk, and we were talking about Dana White, going to Germany to get stem cells at one point. I wanted to mention this. I don't know what you saw last week. There was some pretty extensive testimony and question and answer in the UFC anti-trust lawsuit. They actually brought in Dana White to testify, which we were allowed to listen to. Couldn't record it, but we were allowed to listen to.

It was pretty fascinating hearing him answer these questions under oath and addressing his role in the UFC. They were talking about UFC business he conducts on his phone and through WhatsApp and Instagram, basically kind of getting the drill into the center of it. One of the biggest, I was saying revelations. I think a lot of people knew this, but just him saying it out loud, which is Dana White said he no longer has any input whatsoever in fighter contracts, negotiations, and basically said he doesn't deal with matchmaking at all anymore.

or it's down, you know, when they get down to, quote, unquote, the one yard line, they'll bring it to him, they'll sit down and kind of, you know, kind of figure out a card or figure out fights. Matt, the reason I want to bring this up to you, not only because I know you've been, you know, I know you have a lot of knowledge about the antitrust lawsuit, but in general, because you lived under both regimes. You were there during the Lorenzo Fertita, Dana White, Joe Silva days, and you were there during the Endeavor, you know, Mick Maynard, Sean Shelby, Hunter Campbell days. I'm curious, let me start here, Matt, during your heyday, which is,

you spent more time with the old regime, right? Like that's, you know, when you were there, literally when you started the UFC. How hands-on was Dana Y at that point? Because I think people are just misconception. Like, he never did anything. I don't think that's true, obviously. But it did change a lot after the switching owners, didn't it?

Yeah, I mean, so when I was kind of coming up and, you know, in my prime, so to speak, you know, making a run for the title and everything, the situation that I understood, because I only spoke to Dana personally, when I started getting into those top 10, top five fights, right? Everything below that, like, you know, Dana would have, he was clearly involved, right? Like, he would kind of talk to him here and there, and, you know, he would come back to the locker room and talk to you about it.

And, you know, you get little glimpses here and there about what he wants next. But until I got into the top 10, top five, there wasn't a whole lot of, like, talking to Dana about it, you know. But then when I got up in there, now I wasn't even talked to Joe Silva anymore. It was just straight to Dana, right? And then after the buyout, you know, this was just my own experience, you know. I never talked to Dana or anybody other than Sean Shelby after that.

Not even, I never spoke data on the phone about anything, honestly, which was kind of surprising, you know. Because back in the day, you know, I think it just got big too, right? you know, there's so many fighters and everybody's asking for something. I mean, I can't imagine dealing with fighters, bro. Nonetheless, well, like 600 plus fighters. I mean, I can't imagine. But that's like every single person, you know, asking for something and trying to get the next fight.

You know what I mean? And that's why they always liked me, right? Because Dana could call me and be like, hey, this is who we want you to fight. Like, okay. You know, that was why they, you know, liked me a lot, right? So I don't know. That's just I can always speak on my own experience. You know, that was the experience I had.

And they were always really cool to me, really good. You know, but I was good back, right? You know, it was a good mutual relationship, right? Like, I didn't negotiate contract. I negotiated with Dana once. And I was in, I want to say, 2016. And it was kind of funny as I went to his office. And, you know, he kind of shows us around.

You know, it was me and my wife at the time. He shows around, shows us his Ferraris, and shows us to office. And, you know, and finally we sit down and get to the meeting. And I said, Dana, you know, I think this is, you know, what I'm worth. And he said, okay. And I was it. I was like, is that it? Maybe I should have asked for more, right?

Yeah, that was it. They went back to talking about, you know, some of the paintings on the wall or, you know, whatever kind of other shit we start talking about. It's funny to say that because I've obviously heard stories about guys going in and talking to Dana personally. And I know he didn't handle everything. Like we always heard the stories about guys who didn't get along with Dana. They would deal with Lorenzo directly. And Lorenzo Furtino would get involved to deal with him directly.

But I'm curious because I know we have briefly touched on this in the past, like how much things changed under the new ownership and like how different it was. And I know you said like even when you were getting ready to retire, like you were pretty much dealing exclusively with Sean Shelbur. Like he was reaching out to you saying, hey, do you want to fight? do I do this. I know you said like it was a kind of a whole new world when Endeavor took over in terms like almost like the, I'm now as an English lit major here, I'm about to screw up a word, but like the corporatization of the UFC, like it became a much more like corporate feel. Is that accurate?

Like in terms of like, because I didn't even talked about that before, like how different it was, like how corporate it felt after the ownership switch. Yeah, because, you know, it was amazing the UFC for, what, 16 years. And, you know, the first 10 years around that, 10 plus. years, you know, you go into the UFC on Fight Week and like, you know, every single person in there, you know, they're taking care of these, hey, how's the kids, how's, you know what I mean? And then all of a sudden, maybe not even all of a sudden, it was a little bit gradual, I think, particularly because I kind of semi-retired there for about a year.

I think that's when it really, like, started switching, because I was around the time that they were bought. And you come back and like, I don't know anybody. you know the people that I did know like they got you know either different roles or you know they're busy with you know doing whatever they're doing and when I'm looking around and it's like bro like I don't know who the fuck these people are and you know why are they talking to me like I'm just another person like you know because you used to get treated a certain way right and then you know because they know you know you because they know you're you're not you're just a number like you know you know you You're just the next fighter in line here. And, you know, do your, you know, check all your boxes and get out of here, get to your hotel. And so it was a little odd, but, you know, you're also talking about Fight Week when your brain isn't focused on those things, right?

That's not where your mind's going. You're not letting that phase you. So, but then again, you know, even maybe like after the fight, it was kind of, you know, the same thing. You're used to going backstage and, you know, these people that you kind of know a little bit are seeing you. And, you know, they're either congratulating you or maybe staying away from you, right, depending on the situation. And, yeah, and then all of a sudden it's not happening, right? You're backstage and, you know, it's a check this box, check this box, and get out of here.

And I remember one of the big things changes when it get backstage after the fight, they wouldn't give out tickets no more. It used to, you know, after you thought, you'd go sit in the stands and, you know, sometimes I'd go chat with people and sign autographs and shit and watch the rest of fights and and now they were I that's one of the big things I remember because that really threw me off I was like I was like I'm a fighter I can't go watch the fights like what do you mean like like I want to see the fucking main event like in the front row I just fought like I don't deserve that and all of a sudden it's like no we got you a you know we got you a shuttle back to your hotel I got to watch from my hotel you know and then of course yeah that was right before COVID also and then And with COVID, I mean, everything fucking changed, you know. I mean, I still remember, like, you know, the one fight I had, you know, where everybody had to have a separate locker room, right?

So I'm sitting in one room waiting for the guy to be done warming up, so he can go out so I can get in the locker room. And, you know, that was just silliness all around. But, you know, it felt very, very awkward. But whatever. Yeah, the corporate, it was certainly turned far, far more corporate. it. You know, we kind of, it's, the funny thing is it was one of those things that,

just like how, remember on the underground back in the day, like all the threads were like, dude, when we get on national television, that's going to be awesome. And then we get on Fox and everybody's like, man, this fucking bullshit. Like, you know, too many cards. And it was kind of the same thing. We're like, man, we can't wait for this sport to blow up and be the biggest sport in the world. And then it gets there and you're like, this isn't what I thought it would be. You know, this is, I kind of like that family feel, you know.

Yeah. Well, you know, and here's the thing, like, because I know you've seen this narrative that's run around recently about Dana, like, seemed like Dana seems disinterested in the UFC. Like, it just seems like he's not as, like, passion as he once was. And, you know, he's talking about boxing and power slap and whatever old radio, other things he's doing. And when this thing comes out in the court hearing, and he's like, I don't do any matchmaker. I don't do any matchmaker. When fighters reach out to me now, I basically call the matchmaker and say, hey, why is this guy reaching out to me?

Like, because I know you've said in the past, I'm not putting words your mouth, but I know you said, like, if you reached out to Dana, Dana, you would respond. You know, I mean, maybe he wouldn't do the full negotiation, but you always said you had a good enough relationship with Dana. You could reach out and, like, he would get back to you. And, like, everyone's like, oh, my God, this is like, you know, life changing news. And I'm like, well, not really, because this has kind of been like, like, like, I understand the argument that Dana seems a little disinterested.

I get that. Like, because, like, he goes on these interviews sometimes and you're like, hey, what about this guy? You can kind of see his wheel turning. Like, who is this guy? Like, you know, like, I actually weirdly, I compare it to like, you know, Ari Emanuel, who's obviously the owner of the UFC. Like, he used to be one of the biggest Hollywood agents. Like, he would be in the room negotiating deals for movies and TV and whatever.

And he still has a client base. I know there's still guys and girls he represents as an agent, but that's just not his business anymore. He's not running a, you know, $40 billion sports conglomer with UFC and WWE. So I'm sure he's not sitting in the room at, you know, Warner Brothers negotiating a deal for Ben Affleck or what. You know what I mean? So, like, I do get the argument, though, because data does seem sometimes a little checked out. Like, you kind of tell, like, when you ask them questions,

he doesn't really, like, quite know what you're talking about, like, certain fights. But I think that's just the nature of the beast, right? He's been doing this for 20 years. His role's going to change. Yeah, and I think there's a couple pieces out, too. You know, for one, you know, when you build a business, I mean, that's what, like, the goal is to build a business, right? Where you're not in the business, right?

And that kind of seems the role that he's playing now, right? But for two, I mean, you know, some people love, some people hate Dana. You know, you say whatever you want on his personality and the way he acts and some of the odd things he says and some things you agree or disagree with. The one thing you can't say is he's a fucking grinder. And he grinded hard on this business for a very long time and did a great job building it. You know, we can, I mean, you know, me, I can get as far as you want into the details of, you know, the monopoly and, you know, all the ethical shit that, you know, we don't agree with.

But the fact is the dude built a business with a good team around them that he sold for $7 billion. Like, okay, like, you got to respect that, right? And when you sell for $7 billion, and, you know, I think Dana got, what, you know, a few hundred mill out of that, it's like, you're supposed to chill, bro. You know, like, this is, that's literally what you're supposed to do. Like, I'm surprised he doesn't.

as much as he does. Like, what Joe Silva did was what you kind of expected everybody do. Take your money and go hide in a fucking on a yacht somewhere, right? So that's, you know, the fact that he's even still doing anything is kind of surprising. And actually, in my opinion, you know, I say props to him for that. It shows the actual love and passion that he does have for doing this. And, you know, so I respect him for that. I remember, and I know you obviously know this far better than I do,

but I just attended a lot of events. I knew Joe Silva very well. I would talk to Joe Silver pretty often. Not about fight stuff, just other stuff. He was a big, you know, comic book nerd. He was just, you know, but like, when you go to events, like Joe Silva was everywhere. Like, he was, and he did everything. Like, he did every division.

And Sean Shelby was kind of like his, I won't say, I'm not insulting the guy by saying his assistant, but he was kind of like helping him, but it was all Joe Silver. Yeah, but Joe Silva was deed to everything. So when he, when that cell went through and I don't know how much he made, but I'm sure he made a pretty hefty amount of money. And he's like, I'm out. I wasn't surprised at all. I was like, dude, that dude was grinding nonstop.

Like, I'm not sure if he ever slept. Like, he was just like, he kind of was on top of everything. Always in the way, and it's always backstage. And people always approaching him. Like, hey, I got this fighter. I want you to sign. He was like the jack of all trades at the UFC. And so when they sold, I don't know what he got.

I say it's $100 million. Yeah, dude, I'd cash out too. I'd be like, you know what, dude, I don't need to work 23-hour days anymore. Like, I'm going to relax and do something else. And as you said, like, credit to Dana, like, I know he's still getting paid a salary to be president of the UFC and he seems like he's doing Zufa boxing and doing all these other kind of things but like that's kind of like you own gyms like you're you know what I mean like you're I bet you what you did on day one opening immortal martial arts is not what you're doing right now

running a mortal martial arts exactly it's not what I'm going to be doing 10 years from now in mortal martial arts right and you got to give credit where credits do right we can give as much criticism of Dana we could go on all day about the criticism but credit where credits do and look he built a great empire and um again the fact that he's still involved with it as much as he is. I think it says something, right? He is actually passionate about it. And to expect him to still be involved in the day-to-day business

and to be, you know, to recognize every fighter under the empire. It's like, that's asking a lot. You know what I mean? And he has, like my biggest, I don't know, criticism, I guess, is the fact like the other things he has going on are so silly. You know, like slap fighting? Like, it's just like you're going to, you know, slow down your UFC shit for fucking slap fighting.

Get the fuck out of here, right? No, the boxing, I mean, I don't know if it's silly or not yet. I will find out. It sure seems silly, you know, the idea, but, you know, he might build that to another $7 billion business and eat my words, right? Did you ever, when you were the UFC's, I know you said you dealt with Sean Schobey,

but did you ever deal with Hunter Campbell at all? I never even met Hunter Campbell. I didn't actually know who he was or what his involvement was until maybe like a year ago. Yeah. But you always, it seemed like you always had a good relationship with Sean Shelby. Anytime you ever talked about it, it seemed like he was responsive, you were responsive. Like, and I know you said even when you retired, like he had reached out and that's when you told him like, yeah, I think I'm done. But like, I know you always said like you had a pretty good relation with Sean Shelby.

Yeah. And look, I'm the guy that they want. You know what I mean? Like I go in, I fight hard, I show up on weight. I don't call them all the time, giving problems. I didn't negotiate contracts. I didn't make problems in really any way at all. I showed up, I fought hard, kept my mouth shut, went home.

You know, I didn't ask for a shit ton of money. In retrospect, maybe I should have, right? Maybe I should have caused more pushback or created more pushback. Maybe I should have negotiated a little bit harder. Maybe I had more money or maybe negotiated who I'm fighting a little bit better at times. And he may be pulled out sometimes because of injury or not taking that short notice fight

or shorter notice fight at times. Maybe. But, you know, I can look back and also be very happy with what I did and, you know, be proud of what I did. And I think the, you know, the UFC loved what I did, right? So that's why it's part of why we had a good relationship. You know, I played the role.

I played exactly what they wanted. Yeah, yeah, you were not the guy, you know, going crazy on social media or going crazy in interviews saying, I want this, I deserve this, I deserve that. Right. Yeah. Because you can tell, like, I mean, I know this is a bad example because it's like literally the most confrontational relationship ever. Like, you were never Dana and Tito.

Like, Dana and Tito would just like go to war publicly. And now, like, Tito's kind of like persona non-grada at UFC. You can fight for what you wanted to a certain extent. But yeah, like, but your relationship was different. But I know you always said, like, when you were at the UFC, always had a good relationship with Dana. Like, there was never, like, conflict there, and it was always cool with you.

Yeah, they were always real cool with me, you know. And again, it's because I got, I just did my part, you know, and kind of did what I was told and showed up, put on a good fight, made weight everything. You know, it didn't really cause any problems. And, you know, there's like two sides of it, right? Again, because maybe I could have made more money, right? Maybe I could have got a better fight that I didn't really fight for it.

you know, that I didn't really bother them about, you know, and I wouldn't necessarily suggest other people to take the path that I took, right? I just looked at it like I'm a fucking warrior and I'm here to fight and it shouldn't matter who I'm fighting and it shouldn't matter how much I'm fighting for. I go out there and do the right thing. I go out and win, everything, all the cards are fall into place. And, you know, looking at it, again, in retrospect, more like a business, you know, I don't think that's the best way necessarily. to look at it, but I'd also, I can be very comfortable with what it was for me. But yeah, so the point is with Dana, Sean, Lorenzo, who, you know, had a good relationship with, only spoke with him a few times, but, you know, he was, he really liked me, I think, and I liked him.

You know, I made it easy for all parties. Yeah. It's like, yeah, that's what they wanted, you know? Yeah. And, yeah, we could go, you know, as far as we wanted to that, but we'll leave it at that for now. Yeah, well, I mean, that's the nature of business, though, right? Like, I think everyone's like, oh, my gosh, Dana doesn't do this. And it was like, I think we all kind of knew Dana didn't really do that anymore.

But now he's just saying, like, on the record, you know, like, and like, that's just, that's the nature. Like, when you run a business that's now worth, you know, 1.1 billion on TV per year, like, you're probably not going to be into minutia. She's probably not on the, you know, hey, man, let's, let's match make this 13th fight on the car. That's not Dana's responsibility. it anymore. As you shouldn't, right? Like there's bigger fish to fry at this point, right? And, you know, that's what we do in business, you know, even in my gym, right?

Like, I did everything at the beginning, right? I mean, I was making fucking phone calls, bro. You know, some people, they'd be shocked to be like, fucking Matt Brown, you calling me. Come to your gym? Yeah, bro, it needs signups, you know? You know, I did a little bit everything. But then once I did it and I made the money to pay someone else to do it, it's like, what the fuck?

do it. That's what a business is. And that continues as you go up and up, and there's bigger things you can do. Dana's out there working, you know, Paramount deals, right? He's out there, you know, apparently he really

enjoys doing the production. I would have thought he would have passed that on by now, too. But I think it's something that he, you know, is really passionate about. But the fact that he's not matchmaking fights, I would have thought that he'd been more involved in some of the main events. And I still have a hard time believing that he's not.

but apparently he says he says he's not under oath so maybe maybe that would be TBD I'm sure he's probably glad not to deal with the fighter contract negotiations like that's just there's so much to do with that and I'm sure he's just like Hunter you handle this I got to go I got a deal with like you know but how much Budweiser is going to pay us for the next five years or whatever you know it's just there's just too much I'm sure that like that's on Hunter Campbell's play now it's kind of on one hand yeah that's probably a half but there's probably like 10 fighters that that's a hassle for right like these managers work for the UFC nowadays you know back in my day you know there was like there were some managers that came and went that they tried to fight for us and they got you know they didn't stay around very long either yeah the managers the vast majority of managers that are out there they work for the UFC as much as they work for the fighter I don't think that's a hard job to be negotiating the contracts and it's probably on something Dan even needs to do because the negotiation isn't a real negotiation.

Hunter comes in and says, this is what we'll do. And the manager says, okay, let me pass it on to my fight. What are they negotiating? Like, they might negotiate a dollar amount, like, you know, a 10% or, you know what I mean? Like these little bits, but they're going to be like, okay, well, we'll just replace you with the next guy. Like, that's fine. You know, I'm sure some of the main event guys and champions start trying to negotiate a little bit.

But for the most part, there's not really a job. there. Yeah. I mean, like it's a very easy thing for Dana to pass off. He's like, bro, you got the easiest job ever here.

You got a bunch of fucking managers out there doing your work for you. It's true. It's absolutely true. This is going to be a little shorter episode with you traveling, Matt, real quick before we get out of I want to ask you this question.

I was going to originally I was going to ask you about we're going to talk about the UFC White House card and I know a lot of conversation going on right now about Connor coming back. I know your belief is Connor still isn't going to fight and I still tend to lean towards your way of thinking. We are still five months out from that car. I wanted to switch up the question real quick.

Last thing before we get out of here. You've mentioned this before on the show. When the card first started, I don't know why everyone's so exhilarated about fighting out of the White House. I don't know why that's such a big deal. But this last week, Ari Emanuel said six to seven fights total. They're not going to do like a big 19 fight card or some crazy leg down the White House lawn. But here's the question.

You remember about USC 300 when that was coming up? Everyone's like, what's going to be the main event? It's got to be the biggest main event in history. Ended up being Alex Pereira and Jamal Hill, which was not the biggest fight in history via. a wide margin. So real quick, Matt, are people getting, like, because right now, like, I know Justin Gage said he thinks it's going to be him and Ilya Tabori.

I think that's a realistic fight, although being honest, Ilya Tepori is already, like, a six to one favorite, which he should be. That's a pretty, you know, but like, are we blowing this way out of it before? Because everyone think they're going to, everyone says it's going to be like Ronda Rousey and Gina Carrano. It's going to be Connor versus Nate. And like, is this once again, are we just setting ourselves up for a letdown just like we did with the UFC 300?

It's hard to imagine you not, right? because, I mean, they don't have the stars that they used to have. And Conner's not fighting on it. I don't give a fuck what anybody says. And I don't care what he says. I don't get what Dana says. Like, he's not fighting on it.

They're using him to promote it, right? And using his name to get out there. He's not fighting on that shit, bro. He's going to be, uh, and, and even if, even if that is signed and a done deal, I'm not going to believe it until he is inside the octagon

and a punch his throne. Even on the walkout, I might be like, bro, there's something's going to happen. You know, when the punch is throwing, I'll be, all right, I guess he's fighting. But like, who do they got for stars, particularly American, right? Like, but just stars all around. And I think it's a risk to take to only do be, only be doing six to seven fights

because you know this sport, man. You could get six to seven boring fights real easy, you know? Yeah. You might get six to seven bangers, too. I mean, you know, but that's the coin flip that you're taking, right? and, you know, I know Dan is a gambler, right? So maybe he likes that gamble. But like Tuporia, Gagy, it's not as guaranteed as people think that it's going to be a, you know, significant, crazy good fight.

Right. I mean, I think Teporia's levels above him, and he might just, he might have a hard time knocking him out and might just beat him up for five rounds. Might just, you know, he might even play a safe and just jab him for five rounds, you know. You know, just kind of stick and move and be like, why do I, why do I need to go for it here? You know, this is Justin Gage. He's going to throw a wild shot. I need to be careful. You know, that's probably a fight that's going to happen on that card, I'm guessing, right?

So, but I can't think of six to seven fights that are that gigantic, right? Unless you get Jones and Pereira as the main event, which even then, is that going to be an exciting fight? Is Jones not going to fucking take him down and finish him in a minute or two? Yeah, I mean, that's not going to fuck around with him on the beat. I mean, that's, like, that's the biggest fight they could bowl. is Jones Pereira and even that's kind of on a wing in a prayer because Jones is pretty much retired and even said like he has terrible arthritis and his hips and all this kind of stuff like that is and that's just like that's a Hail Mary pass because we know if John fights that's probably

going to be his last fight ever which I'm fine with that it's a historic one-time card you do a history and no titles on the line obviously John's no longer Chavez you're not fucking up heavyweight or light heavy yeah so Joe's prayer and you got and Dana wasn't wrong when he said like you know we're going to rely on John for the biggest you know what I mean like go on now Yeah, you're literally you're too big as stars. John Jones and Connor McGregor are two guys who traditionally have not been the most dependable in terms of like, you know, Congressman out for five years. And John is talking about needing hip replacement surgery.

I mean, I don't know to like, you know what I mean? And like, come on. They're not pulling out of your head right now. Like, come on now. Like, remember the USC 300 talk? We're all built up. Like, it's going to be this insane that they're going to bring back Brock Lesnar and Connor. And like, we're like, and then it got an ass.

And by the way, it was a good card. Like, it was obviously. I mean, you know, like, you know, like, you know, K. Harrison debut, Bo Nicol on there. He had obviously the Holloway Gachy fight, which was legendary, legendary ending. But it wasn't like this, like, everyone's just expecting him to bring out, like, all, like,

Chuckledale's coming back or whatever the hell. Like, it's not that guy. It's, like, the biggest fight they could book is Jones Prair. That's the biggest, I think, and is the biggest fight. And obviously, Connor being involved, but even then, like, who's Connor going to fight? They're saying it's not going to be Chandler, probably not going to be Mads or not.

I thought, like, Drew Dober would be a fun fight for him, something like that, but is that really going to be, like the biggest magnitude fight. And I mean, like, they're not getting Nate back. So, like, even then, like, Conner's a star, but who you got? So, like, I think people need to temper their expectations for this card because everyone's imagining it's going to be this insane fantasy matchmaking thing. And I'm like, the UFC doesn't do that anymore, guys.

They just don't do that. Yeah, which kind of sucks, right? But the big, I think the even bigger issue is, like, you know, like, they can make some pretty significant good fights. But what about Americans? So the White House, like, that's the problem. Is there so few American, I mean, Kage's the only technically American champ right now.

Besides Kala. Kayla, she's, but she's out right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. But, yeah, so that's, like, that's a problem. Unless they just go ahead and say, you know what, fuck whether it's American or not, we're just making it international, you know.

Yeah. Which is what I think you almost have to do. And the UFC is an international sport, you know. So I don't know how much they're going to care about that or not. Maybe they just make the biggest fights that they can make. And I think there's some pretty good fights, particularly with Islam. I mean, there's some good choices out there for him to have some big fights. And Ilya, you know, he's going to be fighting Gagee on that card for sure.

Like, I think that's pretty much a done deal. That's probably going to be your main event, I think. Islam Usman, I think, could be on that card. Usman's American. I know he's Nigerian, but obviously, you know, he's American. You know, like, I think that could be one they could put on there. I mean, that's better because, like, they're not going to do, they're not going to do. I don't think they're going to do Ian Gary against Islam on a White House card.

You're just pretty much guaranteeing a five-round decision in that fight, whereas I think Ushman could give them a little bit more of a challenge in terms of like the wrestling and everything. So, like, I'm just saying, like, people are freaking out, like, oh, my God. And just like Pereira and Jones, Jones would be a five-to-one favorite to beat Pereira just like Gaichi's going to be a five-to-one or Ely is going to be a five-to-one favorite to beat Gaichie. So, you know, make some fun fights and lower your asses. expectations of what this card's going to be. I think the only other one potentially could be like a really good main event is if, and I don't think it's going to happen,

but if I'llie and Islam were to fight, that would be the most significant fight they can make in the UFC right now. 100%. That, like, that, and that's closer odds. You know, that's actually a competitive. I mean, I would still pick Islam to win because he's going to be so much bigger now, especially at welterweight. But yeah, yeah, that's the one. Like, Ilya, if they could book Ilya,

Islam, boom, I'm in. Like, that's a massive, massive fight. But that's really about it, because all the other ones are going to be pretty lopsided. Like, Gaci's going to be a massive underdog. Pereira is going to be a massive underdog. Tom Aspinall's not coming back. Like, we know that's not going to happen. So, like, what are options do you have?

That's what I'm saying. They almost have to do, I feel like that they almost, if they want to make it as big of a card as they possibly can, which you've got to think they want to do, you know, it's not going to, but especially if I only be doing six, seven fights, you got to think they're going to have to play some games here and, you know, move some guys around and, you know, do things like that, like, Alia Islam or, you know, maybe, I was thinking like Volcanozky, like he should be fighting somebody, you know, but I can't think of who. He may be someone at 55, you know, that makes a, but Lord, I'm, you know, again, there's just so few stars that feels like these days. I mean, I feel like they could do Sean O'Malley, Peter Yan, I think that's a possibility, you know what I mean, just because, just because O'Malley's a star and he's an American, he does a winner, Rion. I think they could potentially pull that one off.

But even that, like, that's not like a massive fight. You know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, people are just, I think people just have, like, you got, just like with the UFC 300, lower your expectation a little bit. Like, you know, like, that would be in a very fun card. But it was like, Pereira, Jabal Hill is the main event. I was like, you were never getting Brock Lesnar versus John Jones. That was never going to happen. But, you know, they could, I feel like they could possibly, again, maybe do some off-the-wall things like Sean O'Malley versus Volcanoski.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, that'd be a pretty interesting fight, right? Like, pretty, you know, I think Vol could probably beat them pretty good. But it'd be something you'd be like, oh, shit, like, I got to see that, you know? Like, I want to see what's going to happen here, you know? And that's just kind of my feeling of, like, what they got to do, you know? They got to get out.

You know, you're going to have to bring in someone to fight Hamzot, which, again, like, I don't know who do you bring in to fight Hamzot? That's going to be really a great fight, even though, you know, if you're going to do six, seven, it's got to be all champions, right? Unless you bring in Connor and John. like there's no one else that you can really bring in that's a champion or non-champion other than John or Khan. I mean, I know I know Bo Nicol wants Colby Covington on that card. I think that's one you could book because they're both American.

You know, they dislike each other. And, you know, obviously got, you know, the All-American guy of Bo Nickel and you got, you know, Colby. I mean, I get it. But that's like, to me, that's like a flash in the pan fight, you know. But I'm just saying, at least it's Americans, I guess I'm going to get out. That's fair.

But it's just like, you know, that's one of those, there's nothing historical about that whatsoever, right? Like, most likely, Bo goes in and wrestle fucks him to death. You know, like, like, Bo would outrestle Kobe all day long, you know, and he's bigger, taller, stronger. Like, what's Colby going to bring to that, you know, cardio? Like, which is a factor that is something, you know, that is something, you know, especially if they're all five round fights.

but it's like there's no historical significance to that whatsoever. No, but at least I'm just throwing ideas that could be bogged. That's not going to be a main event, obviously, but I could see them putting that on there. At least you're guaranteed American wins because there's a lot of these other fights. You might be getting like the old, you might watch, you know, Islam, Islam and Ilya and all these guys like raising their hands. There's not a single American flag left at the end.

There's not going to be. Oh, man. I mean, maybe maybe they just go in. and, you know, PR train all these guys to say, God, bless America after they win. Oh, man. Yeah, it could be. All right, we're going to get out of here, Matt. Obviously, you're down in Columbia, getting your stem cells, so be safe down there.

When are you coming home? I'll be home over the weekend. All right. Well, have fun down there, man. I know you said you love Columbia, so enjoy the weather. Enjoy the time down there while I'm freezing my ass off here in Ohio. I'm sure you're not missing that right now. Not at all.

Not at all. I had to, we went through a whole month plus of that. And I've had, you know, I'm not wanting to even think or complain about the weather. But boy, this has been one of the worst months in Ohio that I remember since, you know, when you're a kid, you don't even think about it. Right. But, you know, as an adult, I don't remember one, Ohio winter being this brutal, actually. Yeah, when you're, when you're a kid, you're just wishing for school to get canceled. So you're like, snow, get more snow.

Now you're like, fuck this. This is, this is awful. I got to get shoveled my goddamn driveway Yeah Where can people check you out I know you just posted the legend Mark Coleman down there with you So I know you're still posting on Instagram While you're down there in Columbia

Yeah I am The Immortal Instagram and Twitter The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook As always want to say a big thank you Everyone to tunes in the podcast Make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast platforms Apple Podcasts Spotify And of course over on the best website in the world

MMAFighting.com For Matt Brown I'm Damon Martin We will see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We will see you then.