MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Henry Cejudo Eye Poke Controversy, Ilia Topuria Moving to Lightweight and PFL Refusing to Let Aaron Pico Go

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the controversial eye poke that ended Henry Cejudo’s main event with Song Yadong, Ilia Topuria giving up his title to move to lightweight and if he should get an immediate shot at Islam Makhachev, Michael Chandler vs. Paddy Pimblett and the PFL maintaining matching rights on Aaron Pico, which prevents him from leaving the promotion plus more. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Whoa, is this economy? Free beer, wine, and snacks. Sweet. Fast-free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land. And with live TV, I'm not missing the game. It's kind of like I'm already on vacation. Nice. Air Canada.

Nice travels. Wi-Fi available to Aero Plan members on equip flights. Sponsored by Bell. Conditions apply. See Air Canada.com. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin.

He is UFC legend Matt Brown. He has soon to be Thai legend Matt Brown. He said, never sees Matt. What's going on? Not much, man. Just get ready for the trip, bro. So you're going.

Tell everyone where all this trip is taking you? Well, first I'll go to Thailand. Do some fight circus fun, fanatics and shenanigans and insanity and all that shit. they do. And then have a guy fighting in one championship in Bangkok March 8th, Josh Pereira. My first kind of, well, I mean, realistically, he's the most homegrown fighter that I've ever had. He was 1 and 0 or 0-1. I forget which one, when he came to my gym as an amateur, and now he's 7-0 pro going into one championship. So totally homegrown. So that's a cool feeling.

And then after that, I'll be flying over to Europe and doing a seminar tour. So going from Ireland, a couple stops there, a couple stops in England, Manchester, London, and then going to France, doing a couple stops there. And I think we're going to Scotland next. I'm not sure if that's both 100%. Yeah, we'll do a few stops over there. And then I'll get back and it should be warm again. That sounds like a hell of a trip.

Yeah, it's going to be a fun trip, man. It's going to be, you know, it's going to be a tough one, right? I'm going to miss the kids. Who knows what kind of business stuff I'm going to get behind on? What kind of things I'm going to miss? You know, like I forgot to tell them the mail to hold for a month. It's going to be some messy shit, but it's going to be a blast, man. And, you know, as long as my dude goes over there and performs in one championship,

then I'll be happy, you know, whatever happens with the rest of the trip. But that's what I'm there for is it. No, that's the, excuse me. that's the peak of the trip right there my guy winning nice nice and for people listen just so you know we're still doing the podcast we're not going anywhere you're still going to we're going to be recording the podcast maybe in odd hours or whatever you're still going to be doing the show which of course we always appreciate but uh yeah it's going to be a fun trip yeah yeah i'll keep you know i might be doing it at two in the morning over there i mean that's the one part i'm not looking forward to

like my time zone circadian rhythms are going to be an absolute disaster You know, because just in time to get adapted to Thailand, I'm going to go into Europe. And just in time to get adapted to Europe, I'm going to be coming back home. And that's going to be the wreck part. But the nice thing is my kids get spring break the week that I get back. Nice. Of course, I'll get to hang with them in spring break. And they won't have to be getting them up at six in the morning to go to school.

So I at least get a week of recovery there. I guess that's the saving grace. Now, your guy going over and doing one championship is the name of May, I assume? Yeah. Yep. Nice, nice. You never know because obviously one has grappling and jiham grappling and Muay Thai and kickboxing. So just making sure.

So seven knows a pro. Real prospect. Yeah, he's a really good prospect. He's performed really well. Has a great style. A good showman. You know, he's just, he's a 125er, but he's going to fight 135 and one because of the weight cutting thing. just in that weight class

I mean everybody's so good and they're so technical and so fast and you know you just it's why I think it's one the lower you get I think the weight classes kind of get a little bit tougher and then there's a point of diminishing returns

where you know if you're like 100 pounds you know it's whatever but but those loaded weight classes like it's really really tough to tell like you see some really really good technical athletic guys that don't always make it to the top you know And speaking of, we seen them last weekend, right?

Some smaller guys. Yeah, absolutely. The UFC Seattle car went down, not the card that we maybe thought we were going to get, but it ended up being a pretty good night. The prelims had nothing but knockouts and finishes, which is pretty cool. And then, of course, working into the main car, we saw some pretty exciting fights in there as well. So ended up being a pretty decent show, but obviously the main event kind of ended in,

I guess, disappointment. Henry Sudev gets eye poked in the third round pretty badly, and he can't continue. and a fight gets stopped and because he tried to continue and the fight made it to the end of the third round, they end up doing a decision and Song Yadong gets to win by tackle a decision.

Matt, you've been in the fight game for a long time. I'm not going to ask you, you know, like, I'm not going to get into like whether or not he was actually hurt because I think that's ridiculous. Every eye poke nut shot, every foul you get is different. You can't really judge.

I mean, I've seen some guys get cracked in a low blow and you're like oh my god that looks like the worst thing ever and they bounce back in two seconds the other guys get a glancing shot they're down looking like they just got shot in the balls obviously Henry put out a statement today show and he had you know pretty

it was a corneal abrasion and you know it looked pretty bad I guess what I'm getting at but there's been this online and I get it it's online but this online thing he wanted out he didn't want to be there anymore and all this stuff Matt you're a professional fighter I'm not saying that

there aren't instances where guys want out of the fight and they look for a way out. I think there are instances where that's happened. But I just have a hard time believing at Henry Seudo's level, an Olympic gold medalist, two-division UFC champion. And it wasn't like he was getting beat up, beat up. Like he was losing? Yes, I would say he was losing the fight. But it wasn't, it was three rounds in and it certainly wasn't over.

I refused to believe that he just took an eye poke and said, oh, this is my easy way out. Yeah, I totally agree. It's hard to believe that Henry Stewarto would ever do that. You know, it's interesting because, you know, as you're asking the question, and I thought you were going to go to something a little bit different. You know, I've actually never been eye-poked in my life in a fight. I've never been eye-poked. I've never had my nose broken, which surprises people, too.

I've never had my nose-brown. Obviously, I had a deviated septum, which is the surgery that I've been currently dealing with, right? Getting over. But everybody has those. way a lot of people um yeah i've never been i pox so i can't speak on like what it feels like or what it you know what he was going through in that moment or that's the type of pain that he's dealing with but i almost don't care either because it's like i feel like henry sehuto in a fight would work through just about any amount of pain that you could possibly inflict on him like based

off his history like you said gold medalist two division world champion he knows how to deal with pain and I don't think he's going to be quitting because of a you know because of any he's not looking for a way out at all for any reason whatsoever yeah I hate that notion because it's like we respect and have so much admiration for fighters for stepping in there but because they didn't do something you liked or something you believed in and suddenly they're they're doing it because they won out of the fight I'm just like if he was getting even even I mean listen I don't know that I'd buy it regardless but like if he was actually just getting average. absolutely mauled in there and it was like completely one side he was down two 10 eight rounds and it was

just you know just he was just getting his absolute ass kicked then maybe i said well maybe he's just you know maybe he's just like hey i just don't want to be there anymore we you know um i know we saw that one instance in the ufc where that one kid you know was losing around pretty badly he went to his corner and he's just like i'm done and everyone was like what the hell and he got released from the ufc data's like all right well you don't want to be here like we're let you go but i'm just like look at look at who we're talking about here it's hudry sehuto he's He's a pretty multi-time champion, Olympic gold medalist. And it's funny you say you've never been eye-poked.

I got eye-poked really badly one time doing grappling. You got a foot more than me. I got a finger, a pinky finger directly on my eye, and it sucked so bad. Like, I couldn't see for like three days straight. Like, I didn't have him to go to the doctor. They'd have me eye drops. I had to wear a patch. Like, it hurts so bad.

I mean, it was one of the, I mean, it literally just feels like you're just getting stabbed in the eye and then they scratched my cornea which is basically I think what happened to him but like my eye was red and I couldn't barely open my eye I was like basically swollen shut more or less because it hurt so bad to open it and went to the doctor they gave me eye drops and I had to wear a patch over

the eye to keep it from the light for like three days and it finally got better but yeah every eye pokes different so you've been poked in the eye more than I have yes I have I have but it was actually now that I think about it though so like when we get the eye exams before the fights

for the last, I don't know, three or four years, every time I bring back my exam to say, oh, do you have any pain in your eyes? I'm like, no. And they said, well, you have a big scar where, you know, you either poked or, you know, hit or something happened, right? And I'm like, I didn't even know what happened. So anyway.

Yeah, but I'm just like, it's one of those things that's just like, I hate that like the question comes up, but he wanted out. I'm like, come on now. Like, yes, he was losing to fight, but it's so stupid. Yeah, that's ridiculous. And again, it's not like he has some history of that where we might think that that's, you know, have any evidence to support that.

And even a guy, you know, even if like you're kind of saying, you know, if he was getting beat up two rounds or something, like, dude, Henry Sehudo is going to fight through that too. You know, like he's absolutely a fight to the death guy. I believe that 100%. Yeah. You don't get to that level. You do not reach the level that he has reached without that attitude. Yeah.

And I just, like, it's the question, I hate the question. Like, I hate the, like, why would you even think that? Like, he wanted out. Like, and the funny, the crazy thing is, if he had not, like, he did continue, so it happened in the third round. He took the full five minutes, which I think more fighters should, because some guys are just like rushing to get back in there and like, dude, take the five minutes. Like, you get a nut shot, you get hit in the eye, like, take a five minutes and recover.

But he took the full five minutes and he restarted, and it was like 30 seconds for the end of the round. It went to the end of the round. He got to his corner. He told his coach. He's like, I cannot see. Like, I can't see. He's seeing double vision.

And then they end up stopping the fight. Had he actually not restarted the fight, then they could have potentially declared her no contest or whatever because it was before the end of the third round. Because he tried to continue and it made to the end of the third round and he didn't get penalized. Song Yudong didn't get penalized. They went to the judge's scorecard. So, in a weird, I don't know that Henry knew that rule, but I'm like, he tried to continue to actually cost him.

Right. You know, if he really wanted out of there, why would it? and he just won out when it happened. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. If there's a guy who's like a rookie in the UFC, like a, you know, two or three fights or something,

and you want to accuse him of something like that, I understand. With Henry Sehudo, you don't make those accusations. Like the dude is a proven vet, right? Like, he's battle proven. Yeah, let me ask you this question, Matt, because again, as the guy who spent so many years in the UFC, you know, you were around and you see fouls that happen

in the sport. And I've been a big proponent of, you know, referees need to dish out punishment more often. I don't want, I don't want referees to change the course of a fight. Like, I don't want them to be so involved in the fight that there have been fights where guys,

and I know you've seen it, where referees are just shouting instructions constant, I'm like, dude, let them fight. Like, stop. But things like eye pokes, a really bad ipoke, now not every eyepo's the same. But, like, last night, when you rewatch the ipok,

literally he had two fingers, in his eyes. Like, that's how deep it went, and it was pretty bad. I'm like, take a point away, man. Like, you can't, like, that absolute, whether, even if he continued making the end of the fifth round, there's no way that didn't affect him. It's just, like, grab it a cage on a, on a take-down. When they grab it pretty egregiously, and even if you catch the foul, and, you know, you stop the take-thead, they got their back, and they grabbed the cage to get from being dragged to the ground, something like that. I don't know. People are like, oh, don't, don't, first foul, you let him have it.

where's that in the rulebook? Like, where's the rule book that you get to get, just get a poke a guy in the eye or kick a guy in the balls and it's not a foul? Like, isn't that kind of a point of a foul as you get penalized for it? Yeah, I mean, that's like a, one of the running jokes around gyms,

I guarantee all over the country. You know, they'll be like, dude, if you need a break, kick him in the nuts. You get a warning. You know, like poke his eye. You get a warning, right? Yeah, it's ridiculous. My question is,

when are they going to fix these fucking gloves? Yeah. Like they tried and it failed this time They tried to mess up the last time So it's I I feel like they didn't even try though Like they weren't really different You know like I don't I don't know I got a pair of them and I was like what is this?

Like this supposed to be better like I don't even know what they really changed But dude like there is fixes out there for the gloves It is not going to stop all I pokes But it's going to be like okay If there's an eye poke or especially two happening It's probably fairly egregious right like we can start just taking fouls, taking points or whatever kind of penalties we want to do.

But right now it's like you can't even, you can't even fault them. It's hard to even fault them for poking eyes. Like it's harder to get your hands closed than it is to open them. Yeah. That's the opposite of what it should be. Wasn't it, wasn't it Pride originally? Like didn't they have like the curved glove? Was it pride to?

And you and I watched Pride back in the day. Like, I don't remember, I'm sure they happen at some point, like just, you know, through whatever. That's a good point. I don't remember. I don't remember I poke's in pride. Like, I don't remember that. I don't remember I'm really around that era quite as much either. I just, in general, I don't remember it being a thing until, you know, the last maybe like five or ten years, which is interesting.

But, you know, that could also be my poor memory from all those punches of the head, I guess, right? But, yeah, I definitely don't remember any in pride. I mean, that there's, like, again, like a very simple fit. Just curve the gloves. Like it's not hard at all. Yeah, but I just, I hate the idea that like these fouls, like, I actually had someone respond to me on Twitter and they're like, oh, it's the first foul.

He shouldn't get penalized. I'm like, where is it saying the rule books? Do you get one free foul? Like, you know what I mean? And again, it's the severity. Like, I understand you throw an inside leg kick, the guy ducks where he should have dodged and it glances him in the cup. Happens.

That happens pretty often. But then there's other times where they're in a clinch and a guy's throwing knees. And he's just not watching where he's throwing. and you absolutely obliterates the guy's balls, yeah, you should probably have a point taken away because if you ever, and I know you've been hitting the balls, I know I have been too.

Generally speaking, you're not just like, even five minutes, you're not back to completely normal. When you absolutely get cracked in the low blow, five minutes is really not taking away the full amount of that pain. And like with an eye thing is,

is like you watch kickboxing and, uh, and like you rarely ever see that. It's like it's only in UFC I mean you see it occasionally in boxing too And in boxing 99% of the time They're not actually getting hit low They're just wearing their belt so high

That they're like hey take you know Don't let them punch down there You're right That's like a interesting fact right Like you like I don't ever remember seeing that Moitai now you're also allowed to In Moytae to some extent But like in kickboxing you never see this

Yeah but it's the same kind of thing It's just like you know again severity matters you know like a glancing blow or again even an eye poke but eye pokes are so bad like a really like again when you get your eyes raked or you get poked in the eye and again I know you haven't had

to happen to you but when it's like affecting your vision even if it's not horrifically bad like take a point like because the whole thing happened because Sonia Dong had his hand out like this straight out his fingers were straight out and his two fingers literally went straight into Henry Sudo's eye

now I'm not saying you see yeah I'm not saying you stop it by taking a point away but I imagine he's going to be a little bit more careful he's like he happens to get him and get another point taken away I just like I actually literally had a fan tell me saying oh it's the first foul they don't take a point away for that where's to say that where's the say he can't get a point taken away yeah that's a good point like if it's just go ahead and do it on the first foul why not yeah like like learn how to throw a fucking inside leg kick like learn how to defend without pointing your fingers like you know and also fix the goddamn gloves. These are all simple

solutions, right? They just have to be hard line about them and you would think they would with something, you know, as bad and permanent as eyes. I guess the nuts, you can kind of whatever, you know, is what it is. Like your nuts will recover, right? Most people's will.

The eyes, though, like, I mean, that could be a permanent life damage right there. I mean, you mentioned Michael Bisping. I mean, the guy literally has a glass eye now from damages I took in fighting. Like, Yeah. Did he fake it?

Did he fake it? I don't know, guys. Did he fake it? Did he not want to end because he got his idea? It's like, what? But was that from eye pokes, though, or just from getting punched in bad ways? I think it was partially eye, but I think the biggest part of the damage came from the Vitor Belfort fight where he got like kicked in the eye or something like that. And that was when Vitor was, you know, Vitored out.

And I think that's really what did the damage. But, I mean, again, a career of it, I mean, you know, you get enough done. And I think he had, I want to say he had a torn retina from another fight. It just continuously got worse and worse. But, again, the damage, I mean, the damage is there. And Henry posted a photo of it today. Like, he showed, like, what his eye looks like. And I'm just like, Jesus, man.

Like, okay, he's trying to show you proof. He doesn't need to show his proof, but he is. And you're still saying he's faking, he wanted out of there. Like, come on, man. Like, what do you want for these guys? Like, you know what I mean? And we've seen it. We've seen guys absolutely get affected by this.

And you're telling me that he's faking it? It just drives me insane, dude. It should encourage you to stay off the internet, Damon. It really should. It really should. But that's your job, right? That is. That's true.

That's true. Some other big news we got to get to. Well, actually, real quick, I just want to say, did you see DeMitra Bivel and Archer better be of? I still haven't watched that yet. Okay. And I know the result, but, you know, I want to watch the fight, though.

Our prediction was correct. It was a, man, I tell you what. It looked dicey at start, but to begin, man, Demetian Bibble came out. It was almost like the exact opposite of the first fight, where it was like Better Biaf started stronger this time, and then Bivel just dazzled. It was a brilliant performance, man.

So here, let me just ask you this, man. Now they're one in one, and I know you made the argument. Because I have people say it's got to be Benavides. I'm like, I want a third. I think they've got to do it one more. time. I haven't even watched it. And I said, we got to have a third. Absolutely. The only question I would have is because, like, I thought Bvo won the first one. If he won again, it's like, okay, it doesn't really make sense. And it does sound like, I haven't, you know,

haven't watched the five, but what it sounds like is kind of, basically what my prediction was, was it BV just improved a lot more, changed up some things, re-stratageized, regained plan, and Better BF was pretty much Better BF did what he did. And that's why BVo ended up pulling it out and we have to assume if that has the third fight, it's probably going to be more of the same. So I can understand not having excitement for it, but I'd watch those guys fight a hundred times. You know, it's just the day and age that we're in,

you know, people take so long before they fight. Like, you know, back at like Sugar Ray Robinson used to fight guys like, you know, five times in a month, you know, like the same guy. He's like, I'll give you another chance, bitch. Come on. You know, but, you know, this is a different day and age. So I would love to see him fight Benavitas too. though that would be an awesome fight yeah i'm not i'm certainly not opposed that benavides is great i think

it'd be a really fun fight but it's like why why not just go ahead and capitalize on it while they're fresh you know give them give them four or five months to recover get ready again you know what i mean and then you know you got jill because listen if they do it in like july which is you know five months from now or whatever he could still potentially fight benavides in like december it's not like you know like it's not like it's that far out so i just i just i just you know run it back one more time just to settle it and again i don't think you're wrong in saying like bivol Bivol won the first and the second fight But the first fight was very close

Second fight not as much Although it was early Like it looked like it was gonna be a better B'em night And then Bivel took over and really just The last like seven rounds It was like just completely dazzling Watching him go out there and work But again it wasn't a blow out

He didn't knock him out He didn't knock him down It wasn't like a you know It wasn't it wasn't Fury Wilder Where the first fight ended in a draw And the second fight Fury just absolutely beat the shit out of them That wasn't this case

Like it was another I think it was like 116 114 you know one yeah very competitive so I just like run it back one more time it just you know you're just right there about once to see him five benavides which I love Benavides and think he's got a high ceiling but

you gotta think he's going to do the same thing to Benavitas you know what I mean like yeah as good as Benavides I mean he's a lot taller I think and longer but man Beevil is just showing how good he is right like yeah that like I don't know for anybody out there it's going to give him a real

solid match for a long time you figure the scariest guy would be a guy like Better B.E. who just marches forward and throws with huge power. Well, he's now at least 1-0 and you can make the argument too-no against that guy. And Berenicev is a monster. So, you know, yeah, I just think you do it again. Minnavita is a different matchup though, right? He's got the power, but he's also got that long jab too that he used as well,

which is a much different matchup. You know, he's not going to be marching forward like Better BF. So it would be interesting to see. I'm definitely excited to see it. but because, you know, it's going to happen at some point. I think we're pretty confident in that. Like, those two are going to clash heads, and that's exciting. But it's not, it's hard to believe that BVille is going to, you know, like, I think B'Avon doesn't give him a good match,

but it's hard to believe that anybody's going to take Bvall out. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. It would be a great match. Yeah, I think, like, when you look at Bvall, man, he's, I mean, like, God, is it's wrong to think he's number one in the world? They better pound for pound. Like, he's unbelievable. He's definitely up there. Yeah, I think he's underrated in, in that sense.

and, you know, who they got Poundt Pound right? Is it Crawford or... Crawford, yeah, I think it's Crawford, yeah, Crawford, yeah. And that's not wrong either, by the way. Terrence Crawford's a freaking monster, so... Yeah, yeah, if he goes up and fights Canella, which I think, did they book that? Is that set for sure?

So I think what they're doing is, is Canella is going to fight somebody in May or whatever, his first fight with react season, and then they're going to set with... Yeah, for Terrence Crawford later this year. So I think that's what they're doing, so. Yeah, which is exciting to me. And if Kruffer goes up and beats Kinello,

like you got to give him the pound for pound. I mean, that's a fucking huge accomplishment. So you can't take anything away from for that. But I think he's neck and neck would be Vol personally. Yeah, I thought, I mean, due back in the day, like I was so excited to see Terrence Crawford and Errol Spence, and I was a huge Errol Spence guy. Boy, did that end up being a competitive fight whatsoever?

So I'm all in on Terrence Crawford. Now I'm like, well, that one backfired on me. I thought Spence could pull off the upset. Didn't happen. So, yeah, so Terrence Crawford, man. I thought he'd give him a better fight than that, that's for sure. I wasn't doing a better fight at all. It wasn't a fight.

It was like totally lops. I was like, what the hell happened? Yeah, no, that wasn't, that wasn't a fight at all. So credit to Tans Crawfordy is a bad, bad man. So real quick, Matt, let's get into some of the announcements that were made last week. Out of nowhere, you know, Dana's finishing filming the Ultimate Fighters and I got some announcements coming. When Dana says they go, okay, you know, maybe a couple things happening here, maybe a main event. No, we got a shit ton of announcements.

Ilya Teporia has vacated his featherweight title to go up to lightweight, and now Alexander Volcanowski is fighting Diego Lopez to crown a new champion. We also got Michael Chandler versus Patty Pimblet and a five-round fight. Patricio Pitbull, officially in the UFC taken on Yaira Rodriguez. We also found out, found out that Shabat Rechmanov is injured. So UFC 315, it's going to be Bilal Muhammad against Jack Della Madelana, Valentina Shepchenko, taken on Meno Fior, and Leon Edwards, since he lost his opponent is now taking on Sean Brady in the new UFC London main event in March. Out of everything I just mentioned, Matt, what was the one that, like, shocked you the most? I think we all got to imagine St. Eliot-Tuporian news, but what was the one that kind of caught you

off guard the most? I think it caught me off guard that they made the Chandler-Patti fight happen. I didn't actually think that was going to happen. I thought that was just a bunch of noise. But I'm most excited about Toporia, and it's cool, too, that he vacated the title, right? he's not doing what we've been doing for a long time. And I think Dana said it's going to be that way going forward, right, if I'm not mistaken. Well, he said last night's a case-by-case basis.

He's just like, no, we got, yeah, so case by case. So he did. Why is he only this case, then? He said, well, okay, so let me just make sure. Because he's not going to go back down. Yeah, because Ilias, and he said this was Ilya's idea. It wasn't the UFC telling him, hey, if you want to go up, you've got to give up your belt. He's like, it's tough for him to make the weight anymore.

He feels like he did everything he could do it by the way, which I don't know if I agree with that necessarily. Yes, he did knock out Volkanowski and Holloway. Those are two massive wins. But one title defense, I'm not sure you say you've done everything you can do, but he feels like he's done everything you can do, and he's just a really, really bad weight cut, so he's just going to like, hey,

I'm not going to mess around. I'm not going to hold up the division. I'm going to give up the title and move to 155. I respect the hell out of him for that because the UFC didn't force him to do that. And also, just to make this point clear, the UFC has said, like, they haven't booked his fight. There's no guarantee he's going to get Islam in his debut.

And let me say this, Matt. And if I'm Islam, like, I don't take that fight. I don't try to make that fight happen. I totally agree with what he said. He was like, I don't need to fight another blown up 45-pounder. So that's my point. And it's weird to say this. People are going to say this is the weirdest thing you're saying.

But follow me on this, Matt. If I'm still the champion and he goes up and fights Islam, it's a sellable fight. because it's champ versus champ. I don't think it's a great idea. I didn't like the idea, but it's held. Now he's giving up the belt, and he's no longer holding on to that title anymore. I'm like, come up and fight one time and prove it. Go fight Arm and Saurukin.

Go fight Charles Oliva. Go fight one of the top lightweights. And if you win, then you get Islam. Then you're a true lightweight, you've taken out a lightweight contender. But right now, we've had one fight of Iliad Lightway, and that was that Jai Herbert fight that he almost lost. Jai Herbert lit him up a little bit. Now, did he get the knockout?

He absolutely didn't. I know it was a couple years ago, so he's a different fighter. But like this idea that he just slides into a title fight, why? And I kind of agree with Islam. Like, what does Islam have to gain right now? Because if he goes out there and steamrolls, Eliate Tepore, people are going to say, oh, you beat a featherweight. Again.

Yeah, like, what is he gain? Like, what does he gain out of it? Like, he already did that, too. Yeah. To a more stuff. To a more established champion, you could argue. At that point, Volcanowski was a more established champion. Yeah, and I thought I heard Islam had said that.

He's like, I don't need to find another blown up 45 or so. And I think he's got a great point there. But with what Islam is, or I mean, I'm sorry, what, what Ilya has done, I feel like he has earned, you know, the chance to fight for a title in basically every division to, though. So, you know, but yeah, I agree with you. You know, let him fight one and then, you know, earn his way to the title. but who's he fight like that's exciting right

you mentioned like Charles Oliver I'm like fuck yeah you know um you know who else is out there for him to fight armes armin yeah you mentioned armin like that's exciting as hell and that's a sort of a I guess you

you call it like a test to see if he could compete with Islam too right like very stylistically a lot of similarities there so yeah that's that's a good one too but man Charles that excited me when you said that though I was like that could be a really Charles is always fun to watch. And here's what I say to that when people are like, oh, no, don't blow it.

Like do International Fight Week, do Islam and, you know, Islam and I'll either, don't mess it up. And here's the thing I would say about that is that, you know, we saw Islam fight in January. In about a week's time comes Ramadan, which is the entire month of March. So obviously Islam's going to be observing Ramadan. He's not going to fight right after that. Now, last year he did. He had Ramadan. He fought in June when he fought Porre.

But he didn't fight again for the rest of the year. And then, of course, he came back and fought. That's a few months of. Yeah, so it's like, generally speaking, like, because you remember back in the day with Khabib, like Khabib would just not fight again until June, July, whatever. It's like, why not have Islam, why not have Ilya fight Armin or Charles, whichever one you want to do, have them fight International Fight Week? And then the winner can still fight Islam in October when they go back to Abu Dhabi.

That's always a big market for Islam in that part of the world. November, Madison Square Garden. Like, I don't know why we have to run. I understand if it was that why blow it. Well, I don't think you're blowing it because, like it or not, there's going to be the argument that Ili is still undersized fighting a freaking monster in Islam. If he goes out there and beats Armin, how much bigger does that get? And to Armin's point, if Armin beats him, how much bigger does that get? Like, you know what I mean?

Like, you're not losing. If Ilya knocks out Armin Sarukin, holy crap, who's not going to want to watch him fight Islam at that point? Or if Armin goes out there and Mals Ilya to Poria, that just makes Armin and Islam that much bigger. I don't think you're really losing. Yeah, yeah. I think you got great points there. And that's a, yeah, that's a simple one. I just want to see him fight Charles because I love watching Charles fight.

Or Charles. Or Charles, you know? It's just an insane fight. It's just an insane fight. And I feel like anybody trying to get the 55 title has to go through Charles. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, he's just that guy.

You know, I mean, he's been the title holder also. But it's like, if you want to get there, like, you better be able to beat this guy. Yeah. I just like, to me, it's like, I'm not saying the Ilias is not incredible. Ilya is absolutely incredible but just get one just get one get one get one you don't you know I get one win I always uh just my first thought when I heard it was like he's pretty small for 55 I felt like he wasn't big for 45 I was surprised that he said he had a hard time making that weight I mean I've always seen him on TV I haven't seen him in person or anything

but um I wonder if like that's he said he like drinks wine when he cuts weight like maybe that's why you're not making weight buddy like stop drinking wine and fucking drink some water, bro. Yeah, he's also, like, I think what's going to hurt him is he's very short. You know what I mean? He's a very short guy. And that, like, when you look at, like, you put him now, I'm not saying he couldn't beat Dan Hooker.

You put him next to Dan Hooker. They're going to look like they're like little brother or big, bro. Like, they're like completely different way classes. You know what I mean? And like some guys, some guy, obviously has been a lot of guys who have done featherweight and come to lightweight and done very well. Dustopor Porier is a perfect example of that. Connor to a lesser extent, even though he didn't stick around.

A bunch of big guys, yeah. Yeah, big, tall guys who just were adjusted in the way. Like, I think, like, Volcanoowski did put on a good performance against Islam. He lost. But I don't know that, like, I would have loved Volcanovsky stick around because he slid right into a title fight. And I think at the time it made sense because he was on a bigger role. But I don't know that it would. I don't know that would have found long-term success in lightweight.

You know what I mean? Like, he did. He had a great fight. Kudos to him. He performed beautifully. Lost a close decision to Islam Akachah. But, again, styles make fights. I mean, maybe if he fought, you know, if he fought Matush Gamrod and Matush Gamrod just took him down, he couldn't get back up, you know what I mean?

Or he fought like a Justin Gates. He was a big, strong, powerful lightweight, and he just took that punch. Like, I think, I think proven that you're a real lightweight helps. And I, it's not a big lightweight. Like, when he fought Jai Herbert, Jai Herbert's a big tall lightweight. And Jai Herbert is not a top 15 guy. And J. Herbert lit him up. You know what I mean?

Again, a couple years ago, I understand. But he lit him up pretty badly before he got knocked out. So I'm just like, dude, get one. If you beat Charles Oliver If you beat Charles Oliver No one would complain I think it would be great Even though I don't think he's possible

Is if they actually did this tournament thing Which they kind of tossed around a little bit With like Porier Gagey hooker And who else Who's the fourth one? Was it Armin? Maybe Armin

I don't know Maybe I'll be he could be the fourth one right Like him in that group somehow Like that would be Pretty sick Just to watch all those guys Just do a round robin fight Fuck a tournament

Just do a round robin Everybody fight you know the next guy yeah but either way like those are all just such tremendous matchups there yeah i just i don't think there's any wrong with him getting one fight and winning and and getting a title shot like yeah yeah and i because i get what is i'm saying like what is it you know because you know this that's what i say it's more like from islam's side it doesn't make sense for for ilia like i mean he he beat um you know max and vogue like yeah he kind of earned away his way to any title shot but from first first

Islam, it makes no sense. So I get both sides and Islam's a champ. So, yeah, you should have to get a fight to go fight them. Yeah, Islam, I think Islam has earned the right to say, I want a guy to earn a shot. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. That's what I was getting at. Yeah. I agree. When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. It's just $39.99. How could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister, This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss?

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Like leftovers at midnight, our Black Friday offers won't last. Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca. Black Friday. IKEA, bring home to life. Yeah. And then, of course, you mentioned the surprise of Michael Chandler and Patty Pimble. And I just talked to Michael Chandler today. Even he was a little surprised.

And of course, you say, listen, I got to go out and prove myself. People want to see, you know, coming out to Los Charles Oliver. that one hurt him a lot. He was convinced he was going to win that fight and get a title shot. Didn't happen. He was pretty down the dumpside for that fight. And now he gets this one. And it's funny.

And I told him during the interview, and this is the honest truth. Right after the fight got announced, I got like three messages from fighters and a couple of people in the industry. I'm not going to say who. I'm not going to name names. And they were like, is this real? And I was like, yeah, it's real. It's happening.

They're like, dude. Like, what are they doing to Patty? Like, there's a good chance. He goes out there and gets sparked in the first, like, one year, your first round by a guy like Michael Chandler. I'm actually a little surprised because usually with a guy who's got like that huge star power the UFC kind of retreats him a little bit with kid gloves

like what they did with Sean O'Malley until he got to Peter Yon I'm actually a little surprise they gave Michael Chandler to Patty Pippel because he absolutely could go out there and get absolutely sparked in the first round yeah like I said I was surprised on both sides right because it's also I don't know if it's the

type of win that Chandler's looking to go out there and get right it's not putting him back in title contention if he goes out and beats Patty And like you said, a lot of people are surprised that they even made the fight, being that they, you know, they think Chandler has a good chance to spark in him. But it's the right fight to make, though.

Like, I agree with the fight. I think that's why I'm, maybe that's why I'm shocked because it doesn't always happen. You said for the up-and-comer and, you know, quote-unquote stars, right? Like Patty. And, but like, this is a fight he should win. Like Chandler's on, what, three-fight losing streak,

if I'm not wrong? Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah. he's a big star. Like, this is built for Patty to go out there and win. You know, it just happens to be Michael Chandler, who's going to swing for the fences. We know what you're going to get.

He's going to swing for the fences. And if your hands aren't up or you are in the way in one of those punches, your lights are going to be out for a few minutes. So, yeah, I think it's the right fight, though. And that's why I was kind of shocked that they made. I'm shocked that Patty wanted it. But it makes sense, though, a thousand percent, I think. I think it's a really, really, I mean, obviously, every fight's dangerous,

but I think it's a really, really dangerous fight for Patty because it's five rounds, and Patty is a ground specialist. He's not a great striker. I think we've seen that he's got knockouts, but Chandler's gone, you know, Chandler just went five rounds with Charles Loevera and didn't get submitted. Now I'm not knocking Patty Pimble's ground game. I'm just saying, like, I would put Charles Olavera head of Patty Pimble in terms of ground game.

And yes, Chandler's got submitted. He got submitted once by Charles. He got submitted by Porier. after absolute wars. I just, listen, if Patty wins, if Patty wins, kudos to him,

but I don't love his chances in this fight for being honest. Well, from the UFC side, like it's a perfect test. Like, like I say, he's on a three-fight losing streak.

Like, you should be able to go out there and beat him. If you're going to be a top guy like they want him to be, you should go out there and win this fight. If you don't win the fight, okay, you're not the top guy.

You know, like, moving up in the rankings, right? He's been winning. So who are they going to give him? You know? Yeah. This is the right fight to make from the UFC side. I'm with you though. Like I'm a little bit surprised. But what surprised me is that Patty took it and the Chandler took it. Because for Chandler, again, I don't feel like it's as big of a win-win. It's not necessarily a lose-lose, but it's not a win-win if that makes sense. And so I'm surprised that both the fighters agreed to it. But from the UFC side, I think it makes perfect sense. And it's a

perfect matchup. And you can make the argument on Chandler side. I know I know fighters do not take moral victories. I understand that. But when you look at the losses he's had to UFC, two to Charles Olivaara, one to Dustin Porre, one to Justin Gagee. None of those are bad losses. And he was in

every one of those fights. Like he wasn't, he didn't get blown, he didn't get doors blown off in any of those fights. Patty Pimble, I mean, maybe he is the thing, and this is the fight we're going to see. Maybe he really is the real deal. But if he's not, if he's 10% less than that dude,

Chandler is going to hurt him. Because that dude will come out and absolutely, he will look to just absolutely take your head off from the first second to the last second. And if you're not the real deal, dude, Patty's going to be going back to Liverpool going, what the fuck just happened? Yeah, but also, look, Patty's good too.

Like, he's, I think he's proven himself to some. He's not proven that he's a top five guy yet, but he's proven that he's a good fighter. And look, if Chandler fucks up, he's going to go back to, where's it, Nashville? he's going to go back Nashville or Florida or wherever he's at and you know with his tail tuck between his legs right like Patty's no joke either I think he's proven himself to be a solid fighter like you said matchup wise

you know it's a little questionable on Patty's side but you know because you know is your game plan going to be to go take him down that's a tough game plan against Chandler even though Chandler has shown some weaker wrestling than I think his skills are actually you know what his skills actually are. But it seems like a tough matchup for Patty in my opinion. But hey, props to him for taking

it and that's what I said, I'm shocked that it's happening. No, but let's fucking go, bro. This is a good fight. I love the USC made it. I love the UFC made it. I love it. I absolutely love it. The other one that got announced, of course, I mentioned Patricia Pitbull finally coming to UFC getting Yaira here on

day one. That's a really fun fight. But let me ask you this, Matt, because obviously you're a businessman on this side. I don't know if you saw I didn't interview last week with Aaron Pico. Aaron Pico is now technically a free agent. His contract when PFL is over, but they maintain matching rights. And they're not waiving their matching rights. They're like, oh, it's just

a standard contract. We're not waiving those rights. And Aaron Pico has made it very clear to me and to anyone else who will listen. He's not going back to PFL. He doesn't want to fight for them anymore. And last night, Dana White said, like, one of the matchmakers, I think Mick Maynors, who is referring to, it loves Aaron Pico,

really wants to get Aaron Pico in the U.S. And who wouldn't. Aaron Pico is 28 years old. phenomenal fighter. I'm not sitting here for us to just take shots at the PFL. I don't want to seem like we're doing that. But, you know, Don Davis has come out and said, hey, if you don't want to be here, we're not going to hold you. We're not going to make you beholden to us.

And he said that to Patricia Pitbull, and he let Patricia Pitbull go. But when it came to Arapico, he's like, oh, we're maintaining the matching rights. Like, that's just standard contract information. And so, Aaron Pico flat out told me, like, I'll sit out for another year if that's what it takes. I'll sit out the year. I'm not fighting for PFL. Is PFL just doing the right thing, holding on to those matching rights,

meaning like, because basically, for people who don't know the way matching rights work, if the UFC offers PICO a contract and PFL, if UFC offers PICO a contract, PFL matches it, he's got to go back to PFL. That's it. Like, there's no more negotiating.

It's over. He goes back to PFL. Or he sits out and waits out to matching period, which is a year, I think is what he said. Is the PFO doing him dirty or is Peeble just doing good business by not letting this guy go? Well, PFL also thinks of the number two promotion in the world. Yeah, fuck that. Like, you know what I mean?

He's growing above the PFL and they should recognize that and know that and be cool. If they want to get more new stars coming up and sign those guys, they have to let him go. Like, this is going to be in the news and the next guy is going to be like, I'm not signing with PFL. like everybody wants to get to the fucking UFC and that's all there is to it you're not going to be number two or you're not going to be whether you say close number two or something like you're not that no like everybody is number two and you're all equal you're all equally number two you know maybe you can fight over whether you're you know a close to or whatever you're all below so just accept it let the fucking kid go

I think the problem is, and again, what Don Davis is saying isn't wrong because they do maintain matching rights. That's part of the contract. UFC has the same kind of thing. But when a guy has publicly come out and said, I'm not resigning with you, there's nothing you can do. I want to go to the UFC. I want to finally prove myself in the biggest organization in the world. He's 28 years old right in the prime of his career. How much of a public, how much of a PR hit are you taking?

Right. Do you're holding on to this kid? Because the narrative is going to be you're a fighter. You say you're a fighter first organization. You're all about the fighters If you don't want to be here We don't want you here We're not going to hold you know

We're going to hold on to you But then you don't want to let this kid go And like how much of a Because it was the pit bull thing was getting ugly Pitbull was really going on the offensive against him And they finally were just like See ya like go And he signed with the UFC and now the narrative

And then after soon as they let him go PEPA was like cool I appreciate thank you guys for doing the right thing You know and he moved on He signed with the UFC To me it's like He's out of contract Like, I understand you maintain matching rights.

I get that. That's part of the contract. He signed the contract to get that. But he's made it clear. He's not resigning with you. You know? So, like, what are we doing here? Like, you're going to make this kid sit out a year because you want to be vengeful because he doesn't want to fight for you anymore?

Like, the only thing I could think that might be some behind the scene shit happening, might be complete bullshit. Because he might be working with the PFL, try to get a higher offer from the UFC, and they're not going to match it. I think that's some conspiracy theory should I just come up with in my head and it's probably not the truth. But, you know, whatever. Just trying to think of something that may be positive comes out of this because I don't want to see Aaron Pico sit out of year. I want to see him in the UFC. You want to see him in the UFC. The kid should have been in the UFC a long time ago, I think, as a matter of fact.

And I want to see what his fucking potential is. You know, he's got a pretty short window here. You know, maybe the next five, six years it's going to be his window. and, you know, let's see it. I want to see it. Well, and to put this in comparison, like Kayla Harrison was a free agent, she signed with Bellator. They matched the rights, and so she went back to PFL.

Remember, she signed with them so she can finally get to Chris Seiborg fight. They had matching rights, they matched, and she went back to PFL. Now, at the end of that contract, she was actually a full-on free agent, and then she was able to go sign with the UFC. Now, I don't know for certain how much Kayla Harrison is getting paid, but I have to imagine up front. she's probably making less now than when she first signed with the PFL's PFL's PFL is paying like a million dollars a fight.

They're paying her a ridiculous amount of money and I imagine the UFC probably is not paying her that. Although again, on the back end, when you get sponsorships and endorsement deals because you're in the UFC is just a lot bigger. We know that. So I'm not saying she'd lost money. But I don't think the UFC's going to come in and pay Aaron Pico an insane amount of money.

They're going to pay him because he's a very good fighter. And even if it's like $200, $250,000 a fight, that's pretty good money. and if you're PFL, you overpay to keep a guy like Aaron Pico because he's so good. But he's made it clear. He's not going back to you. Aaron Pico, until flat out told me, he's like, I want to prove him the best of the world. The only way I'm going to do that is to go to the UFC. I'm not going to get to prove that beating the same guys in PFL.

I want to go to the UFC. He said that openly. So it's not even a money thing. If that's the case, dude, just let the kid go. And part of the argument the Pico made is he had a seven-fight contract that lasted 30 months. In that 30 months, they only got him five fights. He tried to get the other fights. They didn't give him to him.

So, like, how is this kid at fault? And to me, it's just like, dude, just let him go. What are you doing? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty simple.

Yeah, you can't. I don't know what the PFL is doing. I mean, maybe they just want to hold them until they go bankrupt, right? But you're going to have them anyway. So, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what they're doing, man. And the PFL, like, just nothing really sounds good with what is coming out of that organization in the past year or so.

So it's not too exciting, you know. Yeah, it's not been going. I like to see them do well. That's what sucks, right? I'd like to see them do well, you know. Because we need another organization to have some sort of competition. I think it would be a good thing. Competition is always healthy.

But, you know, I mean, what are we going to have fucking GFL? It's like, you know what I mean? It's ridiculous. So, you know, it's just going to, yeah, UFC's just going to keep growing, you know, and keep pulling away from all the competitors. I mean, I think the best. People needs to like, you know,

do all the right things, you know, to have a chance. Like you have to do, make all the right moves. You can't be making stupid mistakes like this and take these PR hits. Yeah. I think like right before it ended, Bellator was like the best because everyone loved fighting for Scott Coker. people loved it. Now, the downside is

they ran out of money. And so they had to get, you know, they just, no one was, they, Paramount didn't want to continue to put in the bill. They were not making money. And so they're like, we got to get out of this. But when you talk to fighters, they all loved working for Scott Coker. And that's a big deal. Like, guys would re-sign with Bellator because they'd like working with Scott Coker. They weren't as, they weren't as quick

to just rush out the door and go sign with the UFC. Michael Chandler's a good example. He fought there for years. He felt like he finally kind of outlived his stay. And so he went to the UFC, and now he's doing what he's doing in the UFC. But you don't hear that. Like I don't hear a lot of loyalty from guys

being like, I love fighting for Don Davis. Like I don't hear that a lot. You know what I mean? Like people were loyal to Scott Coker. Scott Coker like was a fighters. He was a fighter's promoter. People liked working for Scott Coker. I don't get that sense with the PFL.

Yeah, that's a great call. Yeah. So, you know, we'll see, man. I don't know. There's not options out there. And PFL's saying their close number two was the stupidest thing I ever heard. So we'll see if they,

even stick around for another couple years. You know, there's just not much out there now. So whatever, let Pico go. Let's move on. Chandler, Chandler said something to me when I talked to him, and he's right. He's like, you know, towards the tail into his Bellator career, like, he knew he wanted to be in the UFC. And he's like, I'm not trying to take Knox at the PFL or anybody else.

He's like, but once you get here, it is just a whole other animal. He's like, you can't compare. He's like, he wasn't trying to badmouth Bellator, but he's like, once I got to the UFC, there's just no comparison. There's just the size, the scale, the attention. There's just no. And you can sit there and say we're number two or what the way. It's not the same.

The UFC is just a different animal. Like it or not. I'm not trying to insult anyone out there. I'm just saying the UFC is a different animal. It really is, man. And you can just see it in the fighter's eyes, man. Like when guys are in the UFC, I mean, they're just bloodthirsty animals, bro. And, you know, they'll do any.

A lot of these guys are actually willing to die for that shit. you know, I'm not to say there's not extremely tough, hungry, savage motherfuckers and other promotions, but you're talking the guy from the bottom to the top in the UFC and you just go to an event and you're going to witness that. You know, you can just feel the energy in the air, right? You've been to enough of them after your 100th UFC event. Like you could still feel that energy. You know, like these guys like really want this shit and they're willing to die in there for that shit. And again, you'll see it occasionally in other promotions, but it's not every fight like that.

Yeah, it's not. Again, like I said, this isn't a knock, and there's certainly nothing wrong with being a competitor. I agree with you. We need competition, but it's like BKFC when I talked to David Feldman. David Feldman, like, I would argue BKFC is actually the number two promotion.

They're not MMA, but they're the number two promotion. But even he's like, I don't, like, I'm not trying to compete with the UFC. Like, I'm not trying to poke the bear. That's not what I'm here to do. I'm here to, when they go to Philadelphia with Eddie Albrez, they sell out 17,000 tickets. That's a huge deal.

No one else is doing that. besides the UFC. But even he's like, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to attack that animal. I'm just trying to make my own little carve out my own niche, do my own thing. And that's what they've done. What does happen to every single person, every single organization is poke the bear? There's a graveyard filled of them. There's a graveyard filled of them of people who are trying to poke the bear and the UFC's rolled over them like a tank. Yeah, yeah. And that's why I think, like, one is the only one that's kind of doing a good job because they're not really necessarily poking the bear. Like I know they do a little bit, but not the way these other promotions do.

Like they kind of keep their shit overseas. They're trying to move into America a little bit. They kind of keep it overseas. They added in like the grappling and the Muay Thai, which I fucking love. You know, it's a little bit just different promotion altogether. So they're the only ones I see that's kind of doing the right things to continue to grow. Hell, even them probably going to be bankrupt soon. It's not looking good for them either.

Yeah. But at least you're doing the right things. Yeah, like I watched the five. since last week and Jonathan Haggerty had a great fight and then I got to watch you know I watched Roberto Solich go out and have just a nasty knockout I don't know if he saw that or not but there was like a couple but they mixed it in you see the grappling in there obviously

guys like Kate Rottolo ends up doing MMA but he was great in the grappling like just something different something different you know they're introducing a little bit something different I'm not saying it's going to work long term I don't know but at least they're giving you a little different product like it was kind of fun to watch Soldich go out and just absolutely exterminate his opponent and then Jonathan Haggerty fought right after that you know I'm a Jonathan Haggerty fan.

That was fun to watch. And then obviously rolling right into Tapasiao and Brooks in the main event. And that was a fun one. So it's like, that's different. You give me a different product.

Kind of like BKFC. Like I know, I know Bear Knuckles is not for everybody. I love it. But it's different. I'm not just watching, I know, people hate when I say it.

I'm not watching B level MMA. I'm not watching Bear Knuckle. It's different. It's a different sport. Yeah, it's just like how, what was it? the NFL, what was it, like XFL or some shit?

It's like, it never took off because you're just watching B-level NFL. Like, no one cares, you know? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's the same thing. So it'll be interesting when I go out to Thailand in March and my guy, I'll be fighting one because that'll be the first one that I've ever, first one championship that I've ever taken part of. And, you know, I'll see backstage and, you know, do the walkout and everything. And it's going to be interesting to see kind of the difference in how it feels different and how the

energy is different in the crowd and how the intensity levels are. I'm going to be very interested to feel that. When is that? What's the date for your guys fight? It'd be March 8th. March 8th. It'll be, he's fighting early in the morning so that it's in, I believe it'll be like prime time here. So it'll be like, you know, 8 in the morning is when the show starts. Nice.

Well, I'll definitely keep an eye and watch. I always like seeing the immortal in the corner. That's always fun to watch that experience. So, yeah, it's the best luck to your guy over there, man. Obviously, safe travels under you're leaving in the morning for Thailand. and again for everyone listening. We are still going to be doing the podcast. We may be recording a weird fucked up hours,

but we're still going to do the podcast while you're traveling through Europe and, you know, have a fun over there. So, man, safe travels to Thailand, have phone over there. Obviously, best luck to your guy. I think that's going to be a lot of fun. I've always had good experiences with one championship,

so I think it's going to be a lot of fun. Again, different shows. I think it's going to be kind of fun. And I'm sure you'll be over there, you know, meeting the Muay guys. Like, do you want to get a Muay fight? Like, while we're here, you're going to... Little Matt Brombrose.

I'm always tying. What are you doing? Are you doing wheelchair, nutshots? What are you doing at fight circus this time? Like, what's the? Lord knows, bro. That's a very dynamic question. Anything could happen at any moment.

We just go out and we have fun and we'll see what happens. You'll see one day on the internet. You'll see some viral shit. And I'll be like, yeah, dude, I was a part of that. Oh, man. I love it. Every time you go over there, something new. I saw it called one over there.

The wheelchair fight is like, good Lord, these guys. Like they're just credit for ingenuity. I know, right? The only thing I know that they told me to be prepared for was I'm going to play a couple of songs live with a band over there like Chop Sui and Inner Sandman. And I was like, do I have to do Inner Samman?

And they're like, well, the ties love it. And it was like, all right, whatever. But Chop Suey, that would be a fun one. Yeah, and you just started a new band that's all on Instagram. I'm more Is that the band? Yeah, yeah. We got a record should be finished, is getting mastered right now and mixed and everything.

So I'd say within the next month or two, maybe while I'm in Thailand, might be ready, it might be done. I did get a request, by the way. I know we talked about this before. I did get a request.

I want you to play guitar at the podcast at some point. We got some requests for you to play guitar on the podcast, so. All right. It's easy. Yeah. So Papa Roach, get a little, bust that little poperoche for the show?

Yeah, of course. Yeah. That'd be my, that'd be my, be my warm up. It's that easy. Stupid. All right, man.

Well, tell people if they want to check out. Obviously, follow along. You're going to be traveled for the next month. So people want to follow along and support you what you're doing. Where can they find you? What can they do? At I'm Immortal on Instagram and Twitter. The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook.

Let's fucking go. Love it. And as always, we appreciate you guys tuning in. Make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify. And, of course, over on the best website in the world, mMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown. I am Damon Martin. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider.

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