MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Israel Adesanya's Loss, Bryce Mitchell's Comments Plus Predictions for UFC 312

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to Israel Adesanya's stunning loss to Nassourdine Imavov at UFC Saudi Arabia and what should be next for him. Plus we discuss Bryce Mitchell's controversial comments and Dana White's reaction plus looking ahead at UFC 312 with our picks and predictions for the two title fights and more. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wi-Fi available to AeroPlan members on equip flights sponsored by Bell Conditions apply see Air Canada.com You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown and Matt. What started out as an eventful weekend,

UFC Saudi Arabia has turned into it even more eventful a couple days after that. Not to mention we have UFC 312 coming up this weekend. So we got a lot to talk about today. Yeah, hey, it was a good fight last weekend. Good show, I would say, overall. Yeah. Well, first thing is,

first, right? Speaking of last weekend, right? I think MVP impressed, right? I know your pick was very wrong, which not to be that guy, you know, but yeah, I thought that was impressed. It was definitely better than I expected him to do. Am I wrong? Like, I don't want to do, I don't want to do, I don't want to belabor the point. Like, he looked great. He looked fantastic. And I, again, I absolutely said, yes, I 100% said I thought Sharra bullet. was going to be too big, too strong, too fast for him at that weight class. Because, you know, Michael Venn and Page is traditionally kind of a tall, lanky welterweight. And I was like, man, that's going to be a tough, tough go to go against a real big, powerful middleweight.

Didn't look that way on Saturday. And I know MVP's already said he's going to get back to 170. Am I crazy and thinking, like, dude, why not stick her out at 185? Like, he looked good at 185. Yeah, that'd be interesting because, I mean, we talked about it before. I said, look, Sharra needs to push him around a little bit, which he didn't do. He didn't try to put him against the cage. like never thought about a shot just you know like you're losing like why not right um you know

I think other guys well though I think that's what I'm getting out I thinking other guys are going to test that part of them pretty quickly uh even to get us back down to 170 but I would I would see I really we talked about a little bit before I think the weight difference makes a bigger difference in the grappling than in striking and that's going to be a problem at 185 I think he and Gary took him down, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah. Get a little bit of that Kevin Holland then going on where he's kind of the same

body type as Kevin Holland. And Kevin Holland just could not keep Ryder to rid or off him. And like he got taken down and submitted inside about three minutes. So yeah, you're probably right. Like that is true. I didn't really think because that's what happened to him when he was at 185. He just couldn't stop guys from taking him down. He's a good.

But a 185, he just could not stop to take down. So when he got taken down, he just got held down or submitted as what happened a couple weeks ago. So yeah, you're probably right. But I was super impressed. I was like, damn, MVP looked good at 185. Like, he looked big and strong and didn't look, didn't look like he was outsized at all. Like, that's the big difference. Like, when Kevin Holland fought Derriter, he looked like he was a weight class below Derriter. That wasn't the case on Saturday. I was like, damn, MVP was thick. He looked good. Yeah, but I think he matches up pretty well with a lot of people at 185, though. There's not a lot of take you down, hold you down, type of guys. But, yeah,

it's going to be interesting to see how he goes forward from here, right? Yeah, absolutely. Now, the main event, Matt, I know going into it, we both picked Israel out of Sanya, but you were, and I think we both do. We paid a lot of credit to Nasradiah M. But we just both kind of felt that like, you know, this was going to be a prove-it fight, so to speak, for Israel out of Sanya. And he looked good in that first round.

He looked great in the first round. Second round, M-Avall comes out, basically shows no fear, steps right in the pocket, clubs him with that right hand, nasty uppercut. and finishes them on the ground. I'm not surprised. I'm not totally surprised M of 1 because he's a really good fighter. I was a little surprised at how it happened, though. Yeah, the same here.

Yeah. I guess the looming question that we're all asking is that it for Adasania's prime, right? And that's what it looked like. I can't imagine that happening five, six, seven years ago to Israel, even though maybe it would have, right? that's where it always gets a little complicated, right? Because maybe it would have, but it's hard to believe that it would have, right? The way that he dominated.

The only thing I don't want to hear is people saying, you know, he's not one of the goats, right? Like, he is absolutely one of the greatest of all time at 185. And, you know, maybe somewhere at the bottom of the top 10, 15 of greatest UFC fighters of all time. 100%. I don't want to misquote you. This is going back to a podcast. maybe a year or two ago, you had said this sport is a cruel bitch, you know? That's how it happens, man.

Yeah, like this is, that's how the sport happens, man. Like, it's wild because we brought it up on the podcast. I was like, man, people forget his last win was Alex Pereira. And I was like, let's not forget. Like, that was his last win. That is his last win still. And now, you know, he got, again, he got dominated by Strickland. No one saw that coming.

We can, I made excuses for it. Israel's never really done that, but I was like, ah, you know, coming out of the emotional rivalry and you're supposed to win this fight, he just overlooked him a little bit. And again, he didn't look bad against Drichus. I thought he did well against Drichus. The Jircus just got him down, submitted him,

and again, that was a tough fight. And he looked good in the first round against Imavol. But here's my thing, I'm asking this is a question you met as a fighter, because you know the, you know the answer. I'm going to ask this as a question and see if I'm on the right track here. This sport, you go from your prime

are one of the best guys in the world to not one of the best guys in a hurry sometimes. Like there's just not a lot. There's a lot. Like it's a rapid follow. Mike, you said like would this have happened five or six years ago? My question two things about that. One,

you question the chin because I'm not saying M of all could knock you out. But like, again, like I just wonder like five years ago could Izzy have taken that right hand? Would it have snapped his head around? Would have stunned him maybe a little bit? Maybe. But like would he have actually gone down and like gotten knocked out? I don't know.

And then two, my second part of that question, Matt, is the timing because it was a perfectly clean punch, but was it also the fact that maybe he's just like a half second slower than he used to be? Like five years ago, maybe he blocks that punch. You know, maybe he misses that punch. I think they're kind of two and the one. Both of the questions are kind of the same answers, right?

If you get hit, I don't care what your chin is, right? You get hit the right way. It just doesn't matter. But Izzy didn't take a lot of shots back in the day. That wasn't his thing. You know, it wasn't like, you know, we knew he was some tough chin guy. He just didn't take a lot of shots. I mean, he certainly, like, I think Gaston

was probably the toughest fight where he took the most shots. But I think, you know, there's kind of two parts of that where, for one, it's, you know, taking the shots, right, your chin, just being strong as a younger athlete, but also your reactions, your involuntary reactions

that you can't really train. Like when that shot's coming and you got, you see it, you know, with 0.01 seconds left or something, and your body just reacts a certain way that takes it a little bit better. And when those reactions, again, it's, you know, millimiloseconds that, you know, just your nervous system just doesn't react the same way you used to. Yeah. And listen, I mean, again, all credit to M-Evolve. He fought a great fight.

He weathered a, I will say even weathered. He had a good first round, but is he? Izzy looked better in the first round. But Nasterdine seemed like he was Biden in his time. He was looking for the way to get inside. And it's just like when he came out on the second round, it's almost like he showed no fear. He's just like, I'm going to step inside the pocket

and I'm going to come after this guy. And he did. And by the way, it was a good stoppage. I know there was a couple of people saying it was not a bad stoppage. It was a good stoppage. He was clearly pretty, you know, when he got that left uppercut, it was pretty much done. And I think even Izzy, you kind of acknowledge it after the fact.

It's like in the moment. I think he got knocked out and woke up again, that kind of thing, you know? and he realized it was okay when he saw the replays. Like, yeah, I think he got me. But I don't, like, here's the thing. We are so reactionary in this sport, Matt. You know this. I mean, listen, we're probably guilty of that on this show occasionally.

I don't think Israel Adasana needs to retire. I don't think he needs to walk away from the sport, anything like that. But Michael Bisp being said after the show on the Post-Fite show, he said, I think it's over his days of being like a champion-level fighter or probably done. I don't think he's wrong there. I don't think he needs to retire. I don't need to, I don't want to have that snap reaction to one loss. Yes, I know it's three in a row.

But again, two guys are about to fight for the title, and the third guy is now probably one of the best two or three, four middle weights in the world. Again, not going to say the guy needs to retire. I don't want to say that. But have we seen the last of Israel out of Sonia as a championship level fighter? I mean, it's hard not to say probably so.

I mean, three losses in a row is tough to come back for anybody. So you're going to have to win three or four in a row to get back there. He's about to be 36. Like, does he have? Could he do it? Sure, possibly. But I don't know, man. Like, again, that championship window closes fast.

We just said, this sport comes in you quick. I don't know. Is that it? Like, I'm not saying it for the career. I'm saying it for like we're talking about, like, again, I said the last week, Matt, I said, is he's always one of those guys that feels like he's one big win from a title shot? I don't think that's the case anymore after this one. No, I think like he could still do it.

You know, something like I preached to. my fighters all the time is, you know, once you get about 35, 40 or whatever, you know, a lot of those reactionary moves techniques, they kind of stop working, right? We've seen in boxing for years and years. And unfortunately for Izzy, that's kind of his style, right? Like he does a lot of things that, like you wouldn't teach in a fundamentals class, right? He, you know, kind of gets up tall sometimes, leaves his chin out there, you know, doesn't necessarily keep his hands up a lot.

You know, these are all things that when you're young, they work very well. When you start getting up there in age, it doesn't always work so well. That's why you don't see guys like Nasim, Prince Nasim, right? You don't see him when he's 40 years old out there still fighting. But then you do see guys like Bernard Hopkins out there, right? It's just those fundamentals. But so like I think he could do it. Like he still has athleticism.

He still has the mental fortitude. I think he has all those qualities still, but I think he would have to change a lot with his style that may be too deeply ingrained in him to be able to do something like that. And I, you know, that's not criticizing him, right? Again, I'm going to say forever, you know,

he's one of the greats in history. So, you know, worked for him while it worked, and now it's not working. And that's the way I see it, you know. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it. I think it's a little bit like Anderson, over, right?

Like, Anderson was, you know, very similar. Like, when you got that quick Twitch react, again, there were so many times in Anderson's career where he was just like one second away from getting hit and he just found a way to get out of the way. When that one second doesn't come any longer, you get hit and then you go down. And to relate this to another sport, I'm a big Bengals fan. You know that about me, Matt. And we have a player on the Bingles name Mike Hilton.

He's a cornerback. Great, great player. Really good player. I think he's like 32. This last season, he's still really good at his job when he's. He's blitzing and tackling and getting inside. But on coverage, when he has to chase the wide receivers, he was like a step or two behind this season.

He wasn't keeping up as much as he used to. He lost a lot of touchdowns. It happens quick, man. It's not like he's not a good player. He's an incredible player. He's one of my favorite players. But you lose that little step, and there's a 22-year-old kid who can run a 4-4-40.

You're not going to keep up with them. And I think that's kind of what Israel's dealing with right now when you're, like I said, that reaction time. I don't think it's about the chin, as you said. You get hit with a good shot. I don't care who you are. You're going to go down. But maybe three years ago, four years ago, he doesn't get hit by that punch.

He moves out of the way of that punch. He's not there when Mavov throws that right hand. I said maybe he doesn't get hit or maybe his nervous system just reacts to it, you know, a little bit better. Which, again, it's hard to explain. That's more like my own theory. You know, I don't think there's, I don't know if there's like any science behind that or anything. But, you know, I theorize that. And, you know, the difference between football and fighting is,

you know, I don't care how technical you are as a cornerback, right? If you don't have that speed and be acting, like, you're just not going to, like, you're cut. Like, there's a younger kid that has that. Whereas in fighting, like, there's ways to compensate for that. There's a lot of ways. Like, there's slow guys that are, you know, they were never slow or never fast to begin with that become very good fighters.

And, you know, again, I appreciate it to my fighters all the time. Like, we have to have strong fundamentals if you want to be in this sport for a long time. and you need to be working on those fundamentals for your entire life. What they teach you the first month that you walk into a gym is what you need to be working on your entire life. Yeah, and I just wonder, like you talk about adapting that style. Again, I bring up Anderson's civil. Later in Anderson's career, you notice he stopped throwing kicks,

he no longer really threw knees. Those were two of his big weapons junk when he was younger. He basically became a boxer, and his reaction time just wasn't what it once was. So he was getting beaten fights where we're like, yeah, like, listen, I'm not, I don't mean any offense, but I'm saying like 10 years ago or 12 years ago, whatever, when Anderson was in his prime, would you have picked your eye haul to beat him? No, your eye haul is a good fighter. But like, that's not the, the Anderson of Prime Anderson would not have lost that fight.

But 42-year-old Anderson off a broken leg and everything else. Yeah, so you're talking to change it. Like, I agree with you. Like, I think there's a world where Izzy could potentially adapt. But the problem is for Izzy, he's been at this for 20 years. And he's had that style. Like, that's what he used in kickboxing. That's what he's used at MMA.

Like, is he suddenly going to, I know he's always talking about becoming a grappler? Is he going to suddenly start shooting for takedowns and that's going to work for him? I mean, I'm not saying he can't do it because he's an incredibly talented guy. But this isn't Izzy, you know, has been fighting for five years. This isn't Izzy who's been 20 years deep in a career with kickboxing and mixed martial arts. I just, I think Anderson. I keep going back to Anderson. Like Anderson, at the detail in his career, we were kind of like, man, I just, this is kind of making me a little sad.

Now, Anderson reinvented himself, did the boxing thing, good for him. but I just I don't know like is he's a skilled guy but I don't know if I don't know if I don't know if he can totally reinvent himself in that way at this stage in his career that's my only worry well and the other side of that too

with him being having such a long career being in here for such a long time you know he's the hunger part right you know to reinvent yourself like that you know he has athleticism to do it still but it's going to take you know that youthful hunger right he's got to be thirsty

again. He's got to go back to getting up at 5 a.m. on your silk sheets, right? And, you know, not going out on Saturday night. You know, you got to start going back to doing those things that you did as a youth. And that's a hard thing to do, man. That's not easy. You know, he's comfortable. He's

had an amazing career. And that's hard to forget all that and go back to training, you know, going back to those day one things again. Yeah, I know it's an opinion. We're not offering advice, but, like, in your opinion, Matt, because I'll say this. Like, I think Israel ought to sign you can still be a viable fighter in the EEOC in the middleweight division.

I just don't, I think the days of him being a champion, probably done. Like, again, and that's, by the way, that's not a bad thing. I'm not saying, like, like I said, there's lots of guys who say, again, I understand when you get to the peak of the sport, it's tough to become a middle of the road kind of guy, but there's still plenty of fun fights out. out there. Again, if Drichis beats Sean Strickland this weekend, I think you can still do the Drick – I still think you can do the Sean Strickland match, and that could still be a fun fight because Strickland typically doesn't present a whole lot of – like, he's not – I know he did rock and Rock Izzy in their first fight, but that's not Strickland's game.

I don't know – like, I guess what I'm saying is, like, I don't think Izzy needs to fight Hamzot tomorrow, but like could you throw him in there with, you know, with some of the other guys in the middle way? Could he still make damage, do good things? Yes. but do I believe that Izzy is going to jump back into title contention at 36? Probably not. How do you feel?

Have we seen the last of Izzy as like a title contender? I mean, based on the history of what we know about this sport, I got to say probably not. But the other side of the history of this sport is that we're surprised about every bike card that we watch, right? So, you know, it wouldn't surprise me either way. But should he retire, I think is the big question. and obviously that's going to be up to himself.

But, you know, I would have to agree, you know, that he's probably not getting back to title fights anytime soon. Probably never again, I guess, which is fine. But, you know, I guess he'll have to decide for himself whether he wants to retire or not because, you know, does he want to, like he's been a title, held a title for so long. It's like, you know, do you want to keep fighting middle of the road fights or whatever? and I was trying to think of like some fun fights that would just, you know, just be fun for him.

Nothing really came up in my head, but I'm sure, you know, there's always options out there that'd be fun. The other option, if the UFC would let him do it, I know we would all love to see him in some influencer boxing stuff. But, you know, we're not, you know, I'd love to see him fight Jake Paul or something. Yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of with you on that. And also, like, again, like, is he, you know, is he after the fight? He said, I think the interviewer said, we'll see, you know, we can't wait see you back in there. And he said, not soon, though.

So it's like he's not racing to get back in there. And, and again, he just got knocked out. He should take time. Yeah. But he is going to turn 36 this year. And again, I wasn't even really thinking about the retirement thing, but you're probably not wrong in that. Like, does he want to come back and fight the number 15 guy? Does he want to be the co-main event on a fight night card?

Again, I'm not saying they would because is he still a star. But, you know, we talked about this with Connor for the longest time. Like, as big of the stars, Connor is, you've got to win at some point. Like, you can't just keep losing and people are not going to eventually lose interest. I think it's kind of, because, like, is it? Because I'm sure, like, financially, is he probably could retire and doesn't need to worry about anything for the rest of his life. But, yeah, you're, I don't know. Maybe that's the better question.

Like, should he retire? Like, again, I'm never going to tell him to retire. But what, I mean, what does he have left to prove? I mean, if that's the question, like, does he have, like, here's my opinion, Matt. If Izzy wants to fight, I'm all for it. Like, I don't think he's done. But does he have anything left to really fight for? I would say, probably not.

Dude, you're already the second best middle weight of all. At worst, you're the second best middle weight of all time. You and Anderson, like that's one and two. To me, what else do you really have to gain? So I guess in that regard, like retirement, I don't know that it's the worst idea. Yeah, that's kind of, that's what I mean. Like, what's the fun fight that we want to see out there, you know? There's just not a lot that I could think of, at least.

And that's why I kind of suggested like influencer boxing or something, you know, get paid, you know, make a lot of money. He's a fun guy at press conferences, right? He always has great entrances, you know, and if he wasn't in the UFC and had, you know, free reign on his interest. I'm sure he'd come up with something Uber creative that we'd all have fun with. He'd be a fun guy to watch

to do something like, and I think you could do well. But what's he going to do in the UFC? You know? Like, is, what are you going to do? You know, like you said, how excited you're going to get, you know, to just fight guys?

Yeah, like you're, you know, if you're not working towards a goal, working towards a title, you're just putting yourself at risk all the time. Now, if he needs the money, you know, it's a different. thing. I'm hoping he does it. Yeah. I mean, and again, like,

do I really, like, do you want to see Israel out of Sanya fight Bo Nicol? Like, is that, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not, Bo Nichols is incredible? I think we all know, I've said many times in the show, I'm a big, big Bo Nickel guy, but like, is that really what's going to get us excited, you know? Like, and if he loses, just get, like, let's just say Bo goes out there not wrestling for three rounds. What are we really

learning? Like, you know, I don't know. You're probably right, in that regard, because I'm trying to think of it. I'm like, who would be the match I'm like, I can't really think of anybody. Like, there's no, like, the biggest, the biggest fight you could match Izzy up with would be running it back again with Pereira, and they're not going to do that. Like, certainly not going to do that because that's the biggest one, you know what I mean? But, like, he's not in a Conner situation where you can, you know, there's guys out there who are not, like, the top guys in the world.

Middleweight's kind of a weird one. Like, there's really not those guys. So, yeah, you're probably right. Like, do we want to see him fight Roman Deleuze? I'm not knocking Roman Deleezi. I'm just saying, like, is that, are we going to get, that excited about that fight? Yeah, there's nothing

fun out there in that division that I could think of. Yeah, and he just became friends with Robert Whitaker. He already has two wins over him. Like, that's not really one that's available. Like, you could have said maybe that one, but even that, like, not now. They already beat him twice.

Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, you're probably, like, running back with gas limit game, man. I don't know. Like, again, like, there's just not a lot of options. Yeah, and you know how it is, too. Like, things always come up and like, oh, we didn't think of that one.

So maybe something will pop up, but nothing pops off my head. So I say if he can get to influencer boxing, I think that would be a great path for him. Even though, I mean, we know what that is. And, you know, it's not necessarily exciting for us. But I don't know, it's probably a good path for him, I guess, if he's interested in that sort of thing. Yeah, nice payday too. I'm sure, you know, go out there and get paid a couple million dollars by Jake Paul. You know, why not?

Yeah, he'd be a perfect guy to fight Jake Paul for him. being honest, right? Yeah, I mean, let's be out, totally being honest. Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget online casino is live. Bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips.

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UFC 312 this week and we got to get into that, but I got to mention, I'd be, listen, we wouldn't be doing our jobs here. We didn't mention the idiocy of Bryce Mitchell last week. Dana White addressed it. What's that? He was your hero. No, certainly not. Yeah, Bryce Mitchell said really dumb things on a podcast, and this is one of those moments where you're like, does everyone need a podcast?

Like, really? Do we, like, does everyone need a podcast? Said some just abhorred things about, like, he, you know, he basically, you know, he basically outlined why he liked Adolf Hitler and questioned the Holocaust. I mean, just, like, these are all things, Matt, that I think we've agreed as a society that you just should not talk about, much less, like, we've agreed on these things. right? Like, we should have agreed decades ago that Hitler is a terrible, horrible, vile person. We've all agreed on that. You know what I mean? And like the Holocaust, like, it happened. It's real. Millions of people were tortured and lost their lives. We've agreed upon this for decades. Why? And Dana, Dana White obviously condemned the statements

and basically, I mean, more or less. He called him a moron and just said he's an idiot. But he stopped short of releasing him and said, you know, hey, if you don't like Bryce Mitchell, you watch me as ass kicked in his next fight. Are we surprised at how this whole thing played out? Are we kind of expected how it all played out? I don't know, Matt. You were in the UFC for a lot of your career, so what were your thoughts when you saw this whole thing

kind of unravel? Well, first, I mean, you've got to give props to Dana. Look, he may not like what you say, but he's like, this job or whatever you want to call it, is it about your speech? This is about fighting. And that's the way it should be, I think. You know, the,

obviously he said one of the dumbest things you could say. But he said dumb things before, you know, the flatter stuff. I mean, he said a lot of dumb things. There's a lot of really dumb people out there. Look, I come from the country. I know some really dumb people. And a lot of times it's just like a contrarian type of thinking. It's not even dumb.

They're like, well, everybody likes this. So that must be wrong, right? And it's just kind of silly, but, you know, Bryce is a good dude. I've met him before. He is a good dude. You know, he doesn't, it's obvious. To me, it's obvious it's ignorance. It's not, you know, it's not, you know, no bad intentions.

You know, it's just the ignorance. And I guess, you know, hopefully he goes over to. Israel or something and realizes like how much this has hurt people over generations and you know how badly people were affected and hopefully he can learn from this and become a better smarter person and he might even fly over there and look out the airplane and realize it the earth is actually round too the same time so this could be a very enlightening trip for him yeah I mean listen I kind of like talking to people about this when it was brought up to me like outside of the UFC circle.

Someone brought it up to me and I said, here's what I'll say about Bryce. When he talks about the flat earth stuff, I just roll my eyes and say, God, I feel for our educational system that this kid somehow at 28 or 29, however old he is, he thinks the world is flat. And I say that to all flat earthers.

Like, come on now. Like, our education system has failed you somewhere along the line. Do you actually believe the world is flat? That is settled science from thousands of years ago. We know the earth is around. But that doesn't harm anybody. Like, as dumb as it is, it doesn't harm anybody.

But there are Holocaust survivors. There are people, I mean, you know, like, I'm not saying he physically hurt someone, but, like, you know, if you are a grandchild or a child or a survivor of the Holocaust and have anyone in this day and age say it didn't actually happen, or it wasn't as bad as they made it out to be, that's horrible. And there was a good dude. Yeah. It's the worst thing. It didn't happen.

Yeah, I mean, so like, that's where I run into the problem with saying that. Like, you say the earth is flat. That's just a dumb thing. Like, you're just dumb for saying that. Because, again, but that doesn't hurt anybody. It doesn't hurt anybody. But when you say that, Hitler was a good guy.

I'm just like, man, like, because, again, there are people who actually survived that who are still alive today. And, you know, I'm not saying, like, they're physically harmed by it. But again, this is one of those things we all should have agreed upon decades ago. Like, don't know. You just don't do that. You don't defend one of the most genocidal madmen of our human history.

It's just a contrary way of thinking, right? Because, like, Hitler did a lot of great things before he killed, you know, one of the worst things in fucking history. Killed like six million Jews, right? like he was on Time magazine Man of the Year and shit, right? So like if you just read up to there and then just denied everything else happened,

you'd be like, wow, he is a fucking good dude, you know? And that's probably what he's doing because he's just being a contrarian. Like, well, I found these good things. You know, it's like you could find something good if you just want to, you know, in a serial killer, right? You'd be like, oh, John Mling Casey, he had fucking buddies, you know, he went to the bar.

You know, like you had a nice. nice girlfriend or something. You'd be like, oh, he was a good dude. Like, yeah, and then he ate people, you know, it's like, so it's just denying all the fucking, you know, the real shit that actually affected people and just being, you know, ignorant about it. Again, it's just ignorance. And look, I like Bryce and I hope the best for him.

But you just got to use your head, man. Like, you can't just be a contrarian about everything. Like, some things are actually true and real. you can't just be afraid about everything so many of these COVID motherfuckers since then like so many people and you know I'm sure we could argue all day like you're probably one side on the other on the COVID like

and look the problem with the whole thing is that it opened a fucking Pandora's box where like nobody trust anything anymore or at least you know on one side like they just don't trust anything right and and now they feel like

everything was a lie and it's like yeah the government is a lot buying a bunch of pieces of shit, 100%. Some things are still true, though. Like, you've got to use some critical thinking. Yeah. And I, so I guess, before we move on from the subject, like, Dana White, obviously, ultimately said, you know, kind of what I think what I expect it, which is, you don't like Bryce Mitchell,

watch him get, you know, get in there and get fun. I saw like, I saw like 100 people online, like make him fight Josh I bit again, because Josh obviously had that nasty knockout on him. and they're like, make him by Josh Schiffon again. I'm not into cancel culture. I'm really not. Like, I don't, I don't abide by that whole idea. Like, you know, you can't come back from saying something stupid.

If you genuinely learn from it and educate yourself and move on. I don't know that Bryce has had that aha moment yet. Like, I read his statement. It more sounded like, I understand why that could be offensive to people. I'm like, well, does that really solve the problem? Like, did you really? But, again, I'm not, I'm not judging him on that. But like my whole thing with Bryce Mitchell, like again, because the UFC has released people for doing, like there was a guy who got released a couple years ago.

He got arrested for domestic violence like four times in a week and they're like gone, you know. And and people are like, well, it's a double standard because John Jones has done a million dumb things, gotten arrested and gotten accused of this and accused of that and they don't release him. Like it or not, I'm not justifying. I'm like it or not, John Jones is not Bryce Mitchell. John Jones is the greatest fighter of all time, multiple-time UFC champion. Like it or not, there is a different set of rules for John Jones than there is a lot of other guys in the sport. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying that you don't have to agree with that.

I'm just saying that's the point. My thing with Bryce Mitchell was like, what are we really losing here? Like, you know, they're like, hey, we just don't want you around anymore, man. You're doing these podcasts and you're defending Hitler. Like, dude, we just, you're just, because if he goes out and wins his next fight and grabs that microphone, they're going to be sitting with puckered buttholes. waiting to see what he says. Like, they're going to be sitting around on the edge of, like, either that or they're never

going to send anyone to interview that guy again if he wins a fight. That was my, I'm not saying the guy should have lost his job. I'm saying, like, what are they really losing by not having him in the U.S.C., you know? Yeah, if John Jones goes to PFL, then PFL blows up all of a sudden, right? Yeah, they got fighters. And then if Bryce Mitchell goes, yeah, it's not really such a big thing. He might end up there anyway, right? But yeah, again, man, like, I don't think Bryce is a bad person.

And I think he is, and I say that in the context of like, I think he's like he could learn, right? I think he could be educated about it. And I think he would change his mind, right? And I don't think that would be a totally difficult thing to do. And I think he'll probably end up fine. I mean, hopefully, right? you know if he goes over to Germany

and Israel and shit and learns all about it and then comes back like dude I didn't see shit you know the fuck is whatever right all right dude you're not here a piece of shit right but you know at this point you got to think he's probably just reading fucking I don't know was it 4chan or Aan

or whatever and you know just people say shit and he's like I just all every fucking thing is a lie they're not not everything buddy like killing people didn't lie. What scares me about Bryce, and I mean this in all sincerity, is it just seems like he's getting worse.

Like, you know, like he went from, like, flat earth to now it's like he's going, like, way down to conspiracy theory. Like, you know what I mean? Like, some guys just keep going down further and further and further now. Maybe this is a wake-up call for him, and he really does get his shit together and, you know, educates himself, hopefully. But, yeah, it seemed like he was getting worse. Like, he went from like, oh, the earth is flat to, I don't wear seatbelts.

to, you know, Hitler's a good guy. Like, we're just spiraling out of control here, Bryce. Like, we're just going, you're going way too far down the road here. I hope he can fix it. I hope he can wreck you. Because, again, like, there's just certain truths that we all should recognize and know. Yeah, I just, again, it's done. So listen, me sitting here saying whether or not the UFC should release him.

It's not my call. He's not getting released. So who cares? I can't do anything about that. Dana seems to be sticking to his guns in terms of like, it's free speech. You say whatever you want to say. And Dana condemned it pretty vehemently. He said he's a, I think to use the actual language, I think he called him a fucking moron.

Okay. You know? And I don't think, I don't think Dana and Bryce are going to sit down and have dinner anytime soon. Like, he's probably going to be very hands off on Bryce Mitchell going forward. And maybe Bryce Mitchell gets absolutely obliterated next way. He gets released. And that's their justification. All right.

You lost. See you, buddy. Maybe that's the way it goes down. So listen, he's not getting released. I'm with you, though, Matt. I just hope he learns and educates himself. And I'm sadly, I don't know if that's going to happen because Bryce doesn't strike me as a kind of guy who's like ready to do that with the whole flatterer thing. But I hope.

I hope he does. Yeah. And it's like you got to be close minded to some things, right? Like I'm all about being open minded and like, dude, anything's possible. But like, you know, like the earth being. flat it's like just close your mind off to that you know what I mean like that you don't have to just have such an open mind about everything because then you'd be lost in the fucking world all together yeah like close your mind to the thought that Hitler was a good dude and guess what

like no it wasn't the fucking CIA you know trying to propagate the entire world into you know, thinking that Hitler did this. Like, that serves no purpose, right? NASA is not propagating the world to tell us that the Earth is flat. It's, it doesn't make sense. Yeah. One thing I love, one thing I love about science, like, science is constantly questioning itself. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, there's no, there's no, there's no, like, there's certain, there's certain, like, that's like saying, like, two plus two is four. The Earth is not flat. We've known that for thousands of years. If I tell you two plus two and you say, well, it could be five. No, Matt, it's not five. It's four. We all know it's four.

That's indisputable at this point. I love the science question things, but there are certain things we all know true. Gravity is real. Sorry, that's not going away. Gravity is real. Like, you don't have to question gravity. The Earth is round and Hitler was a piece of shit. Like, those are some indisputable truths.

Yeah, and again, my kind of overall opinion, right or wrong is, you know, COVID fucked a lot of these minds up. Right? Because, you know, whatever side you're on, you know, whether you're a vaccinate and do all this shit guy or not. Like you got like everybody can admit like they fuck that shit up, right? Whether we should have got vaccinated or not, whether we should have worried about COVID or not, right? They fucked it up. And they gave a great excuse for everybody, for a lot of people at least to just question everything. and now there's going to be a lot of people that continue to push that farther and farther. And you know, it's fine. I don't want to get too far.

I said about the vaccination thing. It's like that whole thing, you're absolutely right because now it's like now they're questioning like the polio vaccine. I'm like, hold on now. Like question one vaccine. I get it. Do we need a question? Like vaccines actually do work throughout history. We know they do.

This one may have been bullshit. But like let's not. Let's not walk back. Like, let's not reintroduce smallpox because you don't, like, let's slow to, but you're right. Like, that's the problem. Like, now they're like, hold on. They lied to us about this.

So maybe it's all false. And I'm like, I'm, I'm with you. Like, there's a lot of shady shit going on around COVID. But that doesn't necessarily mean that, like, they were lying to us about polio. You know what? Like, that's the stretch you're talking about. People are going back and saying, that's alive. Oh, what?

Yeah, everybody became a virologist or immune doctor. or whatever. And, you know, it's fine. You know, people can live if they want, you know, doesn't necessarily hurt so many people to question something like that. But, you know, when you start talking about Hitler and, you know, even if you want to say, like, you know, the Holocaust isn't real, like, okay, like, fine, believe, whatever kind of stupid thing you want.

But even if it wasn't real, like, don't sit there and tell me like he's a good dude, you know, like, he's just, you just can't be that ignorant, you know. And again, I attest it to ignorance. I don't necessarily say like, hey, you're a bad person for believing that. Like, you're just an ignorant person. And, you know, like, I don't think if, you know, if he, you know, like, I don't think hurt Bryce's meaning to hurt anyone, right? I don't think he's, you know, has bad intentions or anything. But it's like at some point you got, you just start saying, okay, well, how does it, how much does it matter your intentions?

Like, use some fucking critical thinking. Use your head. you know, use a, you know, try to maintain above room temperature IQ and let's see if we can, you know, get past this stupid shit. Yeah, I agree. I agree. All right. Yeah, UFC 312 this weekend. I'm about switching subjects in a hurry.

UFC 312 this weekend, Dracus D. Plus C against Sean Strickland. Of course, Tatiana Suarez against Zhang Wei Lee. I got to be honest, Matt. Like, and I'm, listen, I think I've told you on this show, I've turned around. I am now officially a Drickus Duplice fan because I continuously pick against that guy and he somehow always finds a way to prove me wrong. But I'll be honestly, I don't know that him and Sean Strickland's going to be a barn burner, knockdown, drag out, amazing fight.

The first one necessarily wasn't. But I'm actually pretty excited about the January Lee Tatiana Suarez fight. That's a really good fight. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely two of the most talented girls that UFC's ever had. right. Tatiana, I've said for a long time, I think you've said it too. I mean, I think we all agree the amount of talent that she has and, you know, if it weren't for her injuries, she'd already be champion. And Zhang Mali is obviously approved herself to be an extremely good fighter. Probably one the most athletic girls. Because that's usually the problem with the girls. They're just not

athletic enough that were that interested. But these are two actual athletes. So I'm fucking exciting for this one, actually. This is, this is, um, For Zhang, this is probably the first time I've been really, really excited about one of her fights in a while because Tatian is a monster. And like I said, I kind of said this in one of our preview articles. I said she was teetering on Kane Velasquez territory of a fighter whose entire career has been ruined by injuries. You know, like Kane Velasquez, talk to any heavyweight out there. They'll say, Kane Velasquez is the most talented heavyweight to ever fight. But he couldn't stay healthy to save his life.

Like, he just could not stay in the octagoner more than one fight a year, if that. Tatiana was kind of teetering on that but this is such an interesting fight because Tatiana has been nothing but a mauler out there she takes people down absolutely I mean she did to Alexa Grasso she did to Carlos Sparza she is a monster she did to Jessica Andrage

and Janeway is a monster man She hits hard she's a really good athlete Really good fighter I'll be honest I'm leaning Tatiana Not only because But partially because I pegged her as a champion For years and I said she's going to be a champion and unfortunately her timeline has been distorted because of the injuries,

but I can't jump up to bandwagon now. So I think I'd still go with Tatiana, but this is a really interesting fight. You can always jump off the bad bandwagon, bro. It can always change. But, you know, I'm going to go to Tatiana, too. I think that wrestling, you know, we've seen it time and time again in the UFC, right?

That wrestling is an X factor when you're at that level of wrestling, right? Sometimes guys are real good wrestlers, but when you're at that level of wrestling, you know, that's an X factor that can save you or, you know, can just win you a fight. I mean, you know, Tatiana's a really good wrestler. So it's going to be difficult. And she has good striking, too. Yeah.

Yeah, I like, and again, we saw with Zhang's last fight against Yan, Jan, Jan's a good fighter. But she had some struggles here and there in that fight. And I'm just like, man, you can't have those struggles against somebody like Tatiana. She will wrap you up in a bow and send you packing. Yeah, like you said, high-level wrestling. We're talking about, like, she would have been an Olympian, if not for her getting sick and cancer and everything she went through. She would have been an Olympian.

I have no doubt about that in my mind. So, yeah, she's a different level. This is not just good wrestling. This is like Olympic level wrestling. And, yeah, as long as she doesn't go out there and do something dumb, like just walk into a punch or something, you know, I like her chances to win. But it could be a scrap, man, because Zhang Lili is tough, man.

She's not going to just go away. She's strong as a bull, too. So that helps his lot. So I think it's a interesting fight, but I got to go with Tatiana this one. Yeah, same. It's going to be hard to really to ever pick against Tatiana, right? I mean, I think Tatiana is running again. I think her biggest enemy is going to be her own body.

I don't think it's going to be the opponent she faces. I think it's going to be your own body. Can she stay healthy? You know what I mean? Like, if she goes out there and malls, Zhang Wei and becomes champion, great. Can you defend the title in six months? That's the bigger question then. You know what I mean?

Can you stay healthy enough to stay champion? yeah yeah that's exactly that yep yep so we you know but yeah zeng wili's a tough test for so we'll see you know if we're correct on that to start with right the sport surprises us every week yep so now the main event between drickus and sean strickle the first fight was super close ended in a split decision i think the night of the fight i scored it for drickus there's been a lot of people rewatch us and he scored her for strickle it was a very close fight um i know we talked about afterwards, Matt, there was so much talk about the quote-unquote damage because, you know, Strickland was

bleeding, and I know you despise the idea that just because you're bleeding, it's damage, and I agree with you, and I think the cut he had was actually a headbutt, not even a, not even like a punch, it was a headbut, but a very very close fight, but that's kind of Sean Strickland's MO. He doesn't typically blow guys out of the

water. I mean, yes, he did that to Israel out of Sanya. Again, we were all kind of shocked by that. But Sean Strickland is kind of like the master of like the 48-47 decision. That's kind of like his lot in life, you know what I mean? So, I don't know, man. I'm not saying Sean, he's to reinvent a wheel here, but, like, if he wants to definitively beat Drickis and become champion again, he's got to find a way to not make things close. And how he does that, I don't know.

But I think him make, even if he was joking, him making that statement, like, let's just stand and bang, bro, let's not go for takedowns. That speaks to me, there's a little doubt in your mind, like, because Drickas does have good wrestling. He can take you down. Like, are you saying you, want to go to the ground with this guy? I don't know. But I still lean Dracus. I just, I'm, I've become a believer in him, you know, he doesn't do things the natural way. He doesn't do things the technical way a lot of times, but he just finds a way. And, uh, I don't know, man. I just, I like, I think Sean's a very, but again, when you fight that, it's, remember Benson Henderson back in the day, Benson would always win these really close decisions. But then eventually,

that starts going the other way, because that's how judging works sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, in my perspective, I feel like Dracus has improved some, right? We may not necessarily see it like, it's not like his technique is necessarily improved or anything. But he seems like he's getting better, like finishing Izzy, things like that. Vers like Sean Strickland is still exactly the same. And like, I don't know if Sean Strickland even works on getting better. I think he just spars.

I don't know. It seems like to me it feels. like Dracus is getting better coming into his own as a champion a little bit. And Sean's going to kind of do his own thing that he always does. So I'm going to go with Dracus also. Do you think, is there any party that feels like Strickland needs to learn how to take some risks? Because it feels like that, that's what kind of comes back to bite him because he's just happy to stick behind that jab and just like forward pressure and a lot of volume.

Which again, you know, it worked for MSW. We call it the Diaz style. It worked a lot. But when you look at the records, like, it's not like Nate and Nick Diaz have like unblemished records. Like they got a lot of losses on there. You know what I mean? Like, there is a way to fight a guy with just forward pressure throw with jabs for 25 minutes. Like you can find a way to defend that and beat it.

Does Strickland need to take some chances here? Does he need to go for a take down? Does he need to, you know, come out there and throw a couple haymakers? Just try to surprise Drick us. Well, I think we could say, you know, he needs to do a lot of things. But what he does work. So I'm not going to really tell him what he needs to do. if he can go out there and set his jab and you know keep drake's guessing the whole time and

he can stay safe the whole time then it's not a bad gig for him you know if he can go out there and get a victory that way is your interest in this fight any less because of the homzad factor because i think that kind of did it for me a little bit like i'm not knocking sean getting a title shot whatever but after homzad beat robert whittaker i was like man i really want to see drichus and Hamzot. That's the fight I want. When they announced Strickland, I was like, oh, all right. Like, I'm not saying it couldn't be a good fight, but like, you know what I mean? Like, when you know that guy's out there, you kind of got that boogeyman out there, the guy you've never seen fighting before, you're kind of like, that's the one I want to see.

Anything for you at that? Like, is there any element? You're like, man, I wish this was Hamzot here and not Strickland? You have to imagine Hamzot's next, right? Yeah, 100%. That's pretty much a given, right? So it doesn't really take it away from me because I think we know he's next. So it's like, okay, we get to see who's fighting Homzat next. And to me, that's kind of exciting to me.

And, you know, we get to see where these guys are at in their careers, kind of how they're looking. And if they're going to be able to deal with what Hamzot's going to bring, because I think we kind of know what Hamzaa's going to bring for the most part. And, you know, I haven't seen anything out of either of these guys. It really seems like they're going to stop Hamzaa. Yeah. I always ask you, because I love to get your perspective because you're a coach,

is like, what would you tell Sean Strickland to do? But I don't think Sean Strickland is going to change who he is. And I think that's my biggest concern in a fight like this. It's like, I don't think he's going to suddenly become the guy to come out there and shoot a double-legger and suddenly come out there and throw a haymaker. He's going to go out there, fundamental, jab, jab, jab, jab, move forward, before, pressure, jab. Like, I would love to say, Matt, what does he need to do to win?

And you can tell me a million different ways, but is he actually going to do that? Probably not. He's probably going to be the Sean Strickland we've kind of come to know and love or know and watch. Yeah. I mean, realistically, what he needs to do is what he does well. He just has to do it well, right? I think that's exactly it. Like, if I was just going to build a game plan for him, it would be to, you know, get your jab out there, get his set. You know, you're going to have to sprawl when Drake his shoots in and you're going to have to, you know, keep him long and avoid the big shots.

you know, he's already good at doing that. The problem with, like, the constant sparring, it's not a lot of people talk about, like, the brain damage and stuff. Like, I don't think it's nearly as big big deal as people make it out to be. But it's that you don't evolve quite as much, right? Like, you're not compartmentalizing little skills and building on them. For instance, like, I got a guy fighting pretty soon. And today, like, we literally only worked on his jab. and stepping outside

he's fighting a South Paul, right? So getting his left foot outside of his. So, you know, guys were sparring against him, you know, kind of 50, 60%, and his only job was to throw a jab and get outside. I say, you're not throwing right hands, you're not throwing kicks, right? So we're compartmentalizing these little skills.

So now when he goes and spars again, you know, he's going to have a much better jab, hopefully, right, if what we did work, he's going to get outside better and all those other things are going to open up a lot better and that's what i don't really see strictly doing that because he's just sparring all the time so the advantage right is he gets his timing very well he knows exactly what he's looking for all the time he knows himself very well as a fighter you know he doesn't get his nervous you know there's a lot of advantages but you don't evolve that way and that's partially why again i i pick dracus because i do think

Dracus is evolving and getting better. It's just not necessarily better in a technical sense that we would normally consider getting better. Yeah, I know this is a big example, but I think kind of what you're talking about is like when you watch George St. Piero in his career, he was a karate guy, great striking, nasty, long jab striker. But then had that loss to Matt Sarah and suddenly he started wrestling, and now his wrestling was world class. He added that to his weapon. Now when you fought George St. Pierre, you couldn't just strike with it. you couldn't just wrestle him. He just continued to adapt and evolve.

And I think George St. Beer is probably one of the best ever at adapting and evolving his game. Yeah, you're probably, you're right. Like, you're just smart. What do he do? He compartmentalized wrestling. He went to the Olympic Wrestling Center in Canada

and wrestled with the Olympians. Again, compartmentalized in that skill. And I guarantee he went even deeper. Like he drilled specific shots, you know, drilled specific setups and sprawls, all those different things. Yeah. You see it all the time in combat sports,

especially, you know, when you, when you individualize the combat sports, people do it all time. When they're doing MMA, you know, guys that are a little bit wilder and, you know, they just want to fight and just spar and shit. But, you know, in wrestling,

I mean, you go watch a single wrestling practice. Like, they're individualizing, or they're doing individual skills, almost the entire practice at a good practice. Yeah. Yeah, you're not in there just wrestling. They're showing you how to maintain back control, how to do an ankle pick, how to do a roll, whatever they're teaching that day. You're learning something and trying to improve upon that.

You're not just in there, just constantly wrestling each other. You're actually learning what to do in a wrestling match. And yeah, you're probably right. You don't evolve doing that. And what happens is when you, particularly when you're going live a lot, you only use your top, what, five or ten techniques, right? Because you're constantly worried about getting hit. So you're just using your best technique. And if you're going live wrestling, like, you're just using your best shot all the time.

When you go, that's why you have to break them down and, you know, sometimes even go a little flowish or whatever so you can be a little more creative. But you have to break them down so you actually get better. I'm so you build that confidence so that you can use it live. Yeah. So you have to wonder how much is Sean Strickland evolved? And I would argue probably not a lot. Like when you look at Sean Strickland, who he was five years ago and who he is today, he's not all that. different.

Well, it's the same guy. And look, it works for him. It works very well for him. And that's great. I just think he, you know, I'm all about to see with my fighters and with myself when I was like, just maximizing everything. And I just don't think he's maximizing himself.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. So we're about to go on a drink. It's there. Should be a good event. It's normal time on Saturday. It's from Australia, but it's normal time here in the United States.

So we will follow up on that next week. see how everything played out, see if I do better in these picks that I did last week and my picks were Adasanya and Sharra Bullitt. That did not work out well for me. So we'll see how that goes next week. Matt, where can people find you

if they want to throw support and find out what you got going on besides the podcast? I am The Immortal on Instagram and Twitter, The Immortal, Matt Brown, on Facebook. This is the best place to find me. Well, as always,

you can find us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and of course over on the best website in the world, mhmapfiting.com. We'll be back next week with our reaction to everything that happens at UFC 312 here on the fighter versus the writer. Thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you next week.