MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Jake Paul Getting Knocked Out by Anthony Joshua

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to Jake Paul losing to Anthony Joshua and what it means for his future. Does Paul deserve respect for just stepping into that ring to face a former heavyweight champion? What do we make of his performance? Will Paul fight again? We’ll discuss this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Try Odo for free at Odu.com. That's ODOO.com. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown live from Costa Rica on vacation. That is the dedication to this podcast, Matt. You're on vacation for the holidays and you still manage to call in so we can do a quick podcast to talk about Jake Paul Anthony Joshua.

That is commitment right there. Well, we can't skip talking about this fire, right? This is the biggest fight of the year. Yeah. I mean, we get a break, which is nice. Like, around the holidays, we don't have another EEOC event until January 24th. A couple of everything's going on, but not much. But this was the big one.

And you're going on vacation and the dedication, still to do end with your own vacation. So we appreciate it. Obviously, a short episode. We're going to keep a short. Pretty much just going to talk about what happened on Friday. Fight of the year, I guess, is that? I don't know how to, so listen, ultimately the result is exactly what we expected it to be. Jake Paul got knocked out by Anthony.

Actually, actually got his jaw broken in two places by Anthony Joshua. You were watching that. What did you make of that fight on Friday? Yeah, it's like you said, it was almost exactly what we had expected. I think Jake lasted longer than we expected, you know, because he just didn't really engage. And Joshua was smart and took his time and, you know, didn't take any big risks or anything.

So, I mean, I don't know what to make of it, really. I mean, it's not, you know, I guess the best thing I got to make of is, like, all those people saying, like, Jake Paul had a chance. It's like, are we doing this again? Like, when are you guys going to start realizing, like, Olympic boxers don't lose to nobody's? Well, here's the thing. And this, I wanted to bring this up. This is my opinion.

This is not your opinion, Matt. You may agree with me, so we'll talk about it. But afterwards, everyone's like, oh, you got to respect Jake. He went in there. You got to respect Jake. He went in there. He went six rounds. And I put out a tweet on Saturday on Friday night, and they said, I said, don't come and

me that Jake Paul lasted six rounds, Andy Joshua. He ran for six rounds. He circled the ring for six rounds. He stuck his tongue out. He got exhausted, and then he got knocked out. Now, you know, I bring this up, and I know you kind of, you've actually kind of scoffed with this idea. I said, I respect anyone who steps in there, and you're like, well, I don't know if that's

really, like, a respect. Like, I always, like, because I would, like, but here's the thing, like, how much respect am I supposed to have for a guy who didn't really engage? You didn't go out there to win the fight. Like, let's be honest. Like, Jake Paul did not go out there. trying to win he went out there trying to survive like he was circling the entire thing he threw this is according to copy box and those numbers were always a little skewed but like it said he threw

56 punches and six rounds that's less than 10 punches a round that's not trying to win a fight he landed 16 punches and obviously like no real damage you know what i mean like obviously it hurt anthony josh at any point never really like never put any kind of combinations together so i'm not trying to dog i mean i am dogging the guy but i'm just like all this like oh he he went six rounds. He survived six rounds. There was no moment in that fight where I felt like Jake Paul was trying to win. No, I totally agree with you. There's nothing respectable about what he did in the fight itself. It's not like he went out on a shield, right? He didn't go out swinging or anything like that. I mean, he ran until he couldn't run anymore. He ran until he could not

continue to run anymore. And then what happened is exactly what we expected to happen. Where I will digress though is I respect the fact that he was able to make the fight happen and that he did actually take the walk like as a businessman I have a lot of respect for that like how many how you know you said it before yourself right my brother like I would get in there with Anthony Joshua for $50 million and let him knock me out or whatever um well he was he's that guy that's able to actually make that happen because you know we all say that right or everybody As said that at some point, I would do it for that amount of money. Well, he's actually been able to make that happen.

So I actually respect that and I respect that he's able, I respect that hustle. He's able to make a big fight like that. He's able to get it done. He did do a real fight. It wasn't rigged, obviously. So there are things to respect in that regard. To respect his performance. or to respect, you know, just the simple fact that he got in there,

I'm not on that page so much. I'm right there with you on that. There's nothing respectable about what he did that night. And also to that point, like, you know, when I was like, oh, you got to respect, you got to respect. Well, also, and you brought up the financial thing. Like, I think I heard, and this is just rumors. I don't know if this is true, but like they both got paid like $90 million is what I've

been here. And I don't know how true that is. Matt, you've been retired for what, year and a half, something like that, from fighting, clearly not retired from work. I always like to specify that. If I said Matt Brown, I will give you $90 million to go fight Anthony Joshua. How quickly would you sign that contract? You would sign it

before I could finish getting the words out of my mouth you would have had to your signature. And I would too, by the way. I have zero chance of doing anything to Anthony Joshua in a boxing match. But you give me $90 million. I will gladly take the broken jaw. Yes, a broken jaw would suck. You have to have surgery. But guess what? I will cry on my pillow

of $100 bills while I'm recovering. So like, it's not like, Jake did this as some like altruistic mission of mercy like he was dedicating all the money he was going to donate all the money to some like mission in you know in Europe or Africa or something like to save children like he made $90 million

to go get knocked out by Anthony Joshua the result was what we always thought it was going to be and the idea of like oh he went six rounds he didn't go see he survived for six rounds he didn't do anything to win that fight there was never a moment where he was like he threw a couple of haymakers and the one

punched it landed he landed over it didn't land the overhand right he threw an overhand right Joshua blocked him because sweat went flying and he caught him he didn't catch him he didn't he didn't even react to the punch he blocked it and then kept going so like yes to a certain extent like he made you like he said he made the walk i i actually totally agree with you from a business sense like good for you making this fight happen because this one probably let's be honest there's there was more attention on this him getting knocked out and him fighting Anthony Joshua than there ever would have been with Gervante Davis because that was a joke from day one fighting 135-pound fighter.

He may have lost that one too, by the way, but like, but this one, he did, he did take a real fight. He did take on a real fighter. But the result was what we knew it was always going to be. And the idea that Jake went in there, you know, I'm going to slay Goliath all this crap. No, you ran around the ring until you got exhausted, then you got knocked out. Like that's not, that's not trying to win a fight. yeah and I'll add to that there's the again I respect the business hustle I respect the fact that he was able to get this fight done because we can sit here and say I would go in there for $90 million but we can't we don't have that opportunity he's able to create that opportunity for himself and good for him for being able to do that but the fact that he simply walked in there is there's nothing to respect about that what I respect is someone that puts in the work puts in the grind you know

goes through the hours of training in the gym and then goes in and puts on a respectable fight what jake did here was he went he clearly didn't put in the hours in the gym i mean i think we see his skills getting better but he's gassed in so many fights now so you know he's not doing that dirty grimy work right he's not doing the the the road work at five a m and he's not doing the extra reps at the end of practice you know i don't believe all that i believe his skills are getting better because he is in the gym more right i mean it's just a a time thing you're would you if you do this stuff long enough then you simply get better right so he's doing that um so i respect the the guys who put in the real true hard work and the fact that he went in i mean the fact is he should have

been able to run for all six rounds like joshua was clearly very patient about it and or all eight rounds, I'm sorry. You know, Joshua was totally patient about it, and it looked to me like he was willing, because I didn't think Joshua put on that greater performance either. I'm not going to give him a ton of props for what he did, because he wasn't cutting off the ring very well, he wasn't adapting to Jake Paul's game plan very well. And from my, from the indications I see in the fight, Joshua could have, I mean, Jake could have ran for eight rounds and probably survived the whole thing.

but he didn't even put in the work to be able to do that right like he got gasped from just freaking running now he's running from anthony joshua so you know let's let's not act like this isn't a big feat to just be able to even survive rounds with anthony joshua when you're a hundred pounds outsized and on your amateur boxer right so you know i'm not going to act like that's not a feat in itself but the fact is just simply one of the only one of the only walking into a ring and fighting another man is not what should earn person's respect. Putting in the work and dedication, consistency, sacrifice, et cetera, et cetera. That's what is respectable about walking in the ring and fighting another guy. And I heard a lot of people say, well, Jake went six rounds and Francis, you know, got knocked out in the second. Francis and got him. That's exactly my point. Francis tried.

Like, he tried to fight him. It didn't work out very well for him. and I'm sure that like Jake's probably glad he didn't get knocked out that way, although the result was still the same and he got his jaw broken. Francis didn't get his jaw broken. He got knocked out brutally, but he got back up and walked out of the ring. And like only people that have never competed say stuff like that.

Like people don't understand, like it is not easy to just simply walk in and knock a man out. Like you have to find their timing. You have download data. And Joshua is under an insane amount of pressure there. Like the fact that he even got. hit as many times as he did like in I'm you know there's a there's a there's a huge narrative that he not such a great fighter and things like that now right just because you know he ended up winning and knocking a guy out in six rounds you know and it's like oh well you didn't knock him out in two

rounds you're not that good and you know so there's a huge pressure on him and and especially if he were to actually lose the fight I mean I've been in a lot of of fights in my life and the ones that you're supposed to win are the most nervous ones right now you got the pressure on you to go out there and perform and again it's the only people that haven't never competed that don't understand these types of things yeah and i think ultimately like you know like i totally think you got it right like respect him for making the fight respect him for getting the 90 million dollars respecting netflix to sign on to do this kind of fight respect all that kind of stuff but like the actual performance what am i respecting like what did you do you didn't go out

they're trying to win the fight. Like, you went out there to, I mean, the only, like the flag that Jake Paul is going to fly after this fight is, I went six rounds. That's what he's going to fly that flag until his dying day. I went six rounds and Anthony Joshua. But you didn't. You survived six rounds. You didn't fight Anthony Joshua.

You weren't trying to win that fight. You were circling the entire time. To be fair, it's the same. I always say, like, you know, you can. be dominating the show of someone and they get dequeed which we've seen before I'm not remembering the examples but this happens and in the end

when the you know when people look back on it in 50 years they see L or W right no one gives a fuck how many rounds no one cares how no one cares all these nuances and details they see L and they see W

yeah and I mean I can say the same thing about you know my own personal experience in my own career right I got L's that should not fucking be there. I got some, admittedly, you know, where everything was even and I was in great shape and the guy was better than me, right? Some should absolutely fucking not be there. Does it matter?

Does anyone want to hear, you know, that I survived this long with that guy or does anyone want to hear that, you know, I had a torn ACL or a fucking fucked up hand or like no one gives a fuck. It's L or W. Yeah. My son just competed in wrestling last weekend and got, robbed by the ref, right? He should have got the medal.

Do you think anyone fucking cares? So, like, you know what I mean? When he goes back into practice next week after break and, you know, do you think coach is going to be like, oh, well, you know, I know, I know, I know, I mean? It's not going to, it's going to be like, no, you got to L. That's literally all, that's the only thing that matters, L and W. Yeah. And it's, like I said, it's, um, it's, um,

And, like, Jake, like I said, Jake can hang his hat on that all he wants. But at the end of the day, like, that was my whole thing coming out of Saturday night. It was like, like, what do you want me to say? Like, commend him for not getting knocked out in the first round. Like, I think I would. Like, if you want me to have, like, if you want me to say I have more respect for Jake Paul as a fighter, he should have fought. You know? Like, if he would have went out, like I said, Francis and God, who say what you will about him,

he went out there trying to beat Anthony Joshua. Clearly it didn't work out too well for him. and he was not as skilled and he got outboxed and got knocked out brutally in the second round. But he tried. Like he tried and I don't, like, what am I saying about like what, what did Jake Paul do? Like he circled, circled, circled, sort of. There were a couple haymakers.

He didn't set up any combinations. He didn't try to outbox. He didn't try to, like, take downs. Wait for some takedowns in a boxing match. Like, I just, I, like, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to kick the guy when he's down. But, like, clearly he's taking this as like some sort of moral victory. And I'm like, there's no moral victory. in that performance.

Like you didn't go out on your shield. You ran out of gas because you were running for six rounds. And then when you finally couldn't run anymore, Joshua finally caught up to you and knocked you the fuck out. Like, that's what happened. Yeah, I think it's kind of the whole moral of the story here. What we're saying is like, like, guys, people listen and like, just see through it, look through all this bullshit.

Like, Jake Paul was in over his head. He was there to survive, was not there to win. but he made the bag so good for him you know and we watched it so good for him right we're talking about him now good for him right everything worked out for him you know perfectly fine right like he got a lot of money we we talk about this all the time it's prize fighting he's getting the biggest prizes in the world right now as far as I know yeah in fighting like I don't think there's anybody comparing to the amount of money that Jake Paul is making right now. So he is winning.

Now, on paper, when we talk about, because Jake, that's the other part, right? Jake doesn't give a fuck about no legacy. This is clear, right? He does not care about legacy or the history books. The motherfucker is making money. He wants to make money. And he is making money. And so if that is the goalposts, like, he's fucking winning.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, like, that was, and you know this going back months ago, we were talking about the tank, when he made the tank Davis fight, I said, can we just please stop pretending he's trying to be a real boxer? Because, like, this is the clearest indication of, like, you're not, you're not really trying to be a champion. You're not really, like, I just said, like, I was fed up with that narrative of, like, I'm going to be a world-class boxer.

Clearly you're not, because at 11-1 or 12-1-1 or whatever you are and you're fighting a 135-pound guy, yes, it's a big fight, it's a spectacle. I'm all fine with that. I said that. Like, I'm fine with you fighting Anderson-S-S-you-doing. I'm fine with you fighting Anderson-Silvin-A-D, as whoever. Just stop pretending you're a real boxer. Stop pretending you're going to be this world-class championship boxer because you're not fighting actual boxers. You're not fighting guys your size.

You're fighting Giovante Davis in a freak-show fight. You know, this is old-school pride stuff. Like, whatever. I don't really care. Stop pretending. going to be a real fighter. This didn't, like, and I'm fine with Jake doing what he's doing now. Like, I'm

sure what's going to happen is Jake's going to take off six months or whatever to recover from the broken jaw, and rightfully so. And his next fight, he's going to fight KSI or he's going to fight, I don't know who else is out there. Some other random former MMA guy, you know, maybe he'll get, like, I don't know who's going to be out of

contract by then, someone like that, or he's going to fight, you know, I don't know, he's going to fight Chavez Senior. He's going to get him to come out of retirement, like, 90 or whatever, Like, he's going to, like, and that's what, and guess what? That's fine. He can have that career. I don't care about that.

My issue has always been, like, him pretending to be a real guy, a real fight. Just like, like, misfits, like what they do. They don't try to pretend that they're world-class boxing. Like, they're like, we're making these fun, you know, what, like, we get real fighters occasionally, like, Tony Ferguson's fighting over there or whoever, like, and that's real guys, but they're not fighting, like, Tony Ferguson isn't fighting the welterweight. He's not fighting Terrence Crawford. He's not fighting the guys who are actually the world-class boxers in his area.

He's fighting random influencers or whatever. And I am fine with that. That's actually one of the reasons I like misfits. They don't pretend to be anything they're not. Like, they're not saying we're making world-class boxing matches. We're making influencer kind of freak show fights and having fun with it. If Jake Paul just embraced that, I couldn't care less what he does. Like, go do your thing.

And guess what? We'll probably still tune in and watch and enjoy the show. Just stop pretending you're a world-class championship-level boxer. you're not and all Saturday night proved is that you were willing to get paid $90 million to get knocked out by a world-class boxer and that's what happened yeah I feel that and you know I just think part of the pretending part is that's part of the marketing right like that's just part of the brand you know it did does he actually think that on the inside

that's I guess what where the question would be right because he might actually think that he's that good um Do I think he's probably more self-aware than that? Yes, I think he probably recognizes his actual skill level. But he's a master marketer. And look, I look up to Jake Paul for that stuff. You know, I respect him for it. And I think there's a lot to be learned from what he's doing.

But, you know, does it make me interested to watch another Jake Paul fight? No, will I probably watch another Jake Paul fight? Yes. And that's just, that's the whole end game, right? He wants people to watch. We all watch. Again, he wins. Yeah.

Like he, he is winning with this conversation we are having right now. Until he is ignored, he wins. So I respect that personally. Yeah. Like the aftermath, like, I'm sure I don't know if you saw this comment. Nikita Bedarian is his business partner and the co-CEO. he didn't lose my skill he lost by size and I'm just like good Lord like that's what pisses me off that kind of stuff is what pisses me off it's like dude we have eyes we watch

the fight you can't let piss you off like put yourself in his shoes would you say the same thing well I'm not so like you're w w you guy you don't you don't have to you don't have to you don't have to flat out lie about it but like you also you don't have to you don't have to demean your guy. Like, I know he's not going to bash Jake Paul. That's his, that's his lottery ticket. He got his lottery ticket. They're in business together. I understand you're not going to trash the guy and say, man, my guy looked like

garbage out there. You're not going to say that. I get it. All you had to say is, hey, he took his shot, he swung at the king, missed, and got knocked out. He went out on his shield and he lost to a better guy that night. That's all he had to say. Like, he lost to a better, and guess what? And I'd respect that. Like, you lost

you did. You lost to a better guy. You lost to a fight. You should have lost. And It was like watching college football this week, and everyone was pissed off about those random teams that got in the playoffs. They got absolutely a dogwalk by two really, really good teams. Everyone's like, this isn't competitive. Like, we knew they had no chance. Like, why are we watching this? This is like they had zero chance to win those games.

There is no Cinderella upset in that kind of a game of football. Boxing is the same thing. You're not going to throw a Jake Paul in there against an Anthony Joshua and expect him to come out and win. I would respect it more if Nikisa just came out and said, you know what, man, he took a shot, didn't work out. He took on a world-class guy He got knocked out We move on to the next one You know

Thanks for taking the opportunity We appreciate you Anthony Joshua Give him this chance Don't say he lost Because of size Instead of skill That is ridiculous

It's a good line though Right I mean He's like the Who was the WWE manager I'm trying to think of There's all kinds of them Like Bobby the Brain Heenan

And Paul Paul Heyman And like Paul Heyman I think that's what I'm thinking of that's what you do right when you're the promoter i mean you know like you said you pump your guy up and you say all the bullshit you need to say to get that guy sold and it's a good line i was like when he said that i was like i was like dude if i was your promoter like i would say the exact same thing because that's a good line because so many fucking 15 year old kids are going to believe that

you know like they're all in high school right now like well he lost because of size not skills right Like, this is a good narrative if you're in his shoes and you want to make another sell or sell another fight, right? So now the next fight's going to be, you know, with people actually believe in that, the next fight's pumped up now, right? He goes out and says, bro, we lost because of size and not skill. Like, he can beat anybody in the world. He only lost because of size to a fucking, you know, five-time heavyweight champion, bro. I just like, I look for what I like to call like 10 minutes of humility. Like, I remember being there the night that Connor got beat by Nate Diaz.

He got choked by by Nate Diaz. And afterwards, like, Connor was very earnest. He's like, yeah, man, it didn't go my way. I'm probably going to go back to Featherway. Like, didn't work out. You know, very, like, very honest assessment. Now, a week later, two weeks later, all, you know, made every shoes in the book. But on that night, he went, and to his credit, Jake Paul was like, I got my ass kicked.

Like, I got my ass kicked, got my jaw broken. He didn't say it. But I'm just like, give me 10 minutes of humility. Like, just give me 10 minutes of that. And then, like, today, if you want to come out and say, I just rewatch the fight, Jake did way better, and I thought he did. I thought he won some rounds. I'm like, I just, 10 minutes of humility. Give me 10 minutes of humility and then start to promotion again three days later, like Connor does.

Like, I actually appreciate when Connor's lost, he's owned up to it. Like, he's not hid from it. Now, two weeks later, I could have beaten Floyd. I could have beaten this guy. That's fine. On the night of the fight, just admit you got beat and let's move on. but this guy's saying oh it lost because of size not skill like we watched a fight like we all have eyes man like he got beat because he's not a good boxer and he got beaten by a really good boxer like

there's no shape that'd be like me challenging you to a fight man i know i'm going to get my ass absolutely handed to me and because somehow by some hooker by crook i made it to the second round i'm not going to say i lost because i lost to the better the bigger guy or no i lost it to a far better fighter. Like, I just lost to a guy who's a fucking UFC legend of those knockouts and finishes in Welterweight history. How can I not, like, that's what I'm saying. Like, don't be ashamed of that.

You lost to a good guy. Like, don't say it's because of size, though. That's ridiculous. I love it. I love it. It just makes for a great conversation, right? It makes for a lot of fun. And I had a fun time watching the fight.

You know, I think a lot of people hated it. I thought a lot of people, you know, I'm following it on Twitter and people are, you know, like, what am I watching this for? the whole time I'm just thinking of myself but in the Lord's name were you expecting you fucking idiot it's like like what

like Jake I was personally enjoy it because uh look Jake Paul like he had a good game plan for you know for surviving right

and I mean it was about the best you could ask out of him right I mean at the skill level he's at and the experience that he had that he has, I mean, you could not have asked for a better performance out of him. And I was kind of impressed by that, you know, I mean, not to, I don't want to go back of my word. I don't respect everything here, you know what I'm? Like, it's not like you did

something amazing or anything. But it made, it made it interesting for me, right? Because, you know, I'm sitting there, I had to get up for my flight at 4 a.m. the next morning, and it's already midnight in the fight's coming on because he's god-awful national anthems. Which, by the way, you see me post on Twitter. I'm not a fucking communist. I don't need a goddamn national anthem at the fucking Jake Paul fighter. I won it at the Olympics.

I won it at the Super Bowl. I want it the fucking World Series. I don't need it for fucking Jake Paul. Okay. I'm like even my son's wrestling tournaments. I get it. We're all Americans. Keep playing the song.

For Jake Paul, no, it's a shit show. we don't need a fucking national anthem especially two of them that don't even sing in key anyway but yeah like I think I think you're earlier like yeah you're absolutely right

like he went in there with the best possible game plan to not get knocked out and and he fought to survive he didn't fight to win like there was no part of that and I think that's where like

yeah he did it well like in that regard but like there was no point where he was out there like he legitimately did not try to beat Anthony Joshua because he knew he knew he. couldn't beat Anthony Joshua.

I also think it wasn't very long in the fight where he because I don't doubt that he walked in the fight thinking he had a chance with that game plan, right? But it wasn't very long in. He realized like how deep over his head he was or how far in over his head he was. I don't think it took very long. And at that point, I mean, you could see a, I think it was about the third, maybe the fourth around like here was a visible change in his demeanor and and his attitude and then you know

I kind of think he forced himself to kind of stick his tongue out as he's like he's like probably just got his eyes on the prize right at that point he's like all right just we just got to get that money bro like might as well enjoy this and but again it was it kind of entertained me a little bit the fight itself I'm not going to lie like I was a little bit entertained we just we can't deny what the fuck it is, you know? Like, it was equally entertaining as watching WWE. Like, I'm entertained when I watch WWE all the same. And that's what it felt like.

Yeah, real quick before we get out here, so kind of a two-part question, Matt, do you believe Jake Paul will fight again and what kind of a fight do you think we're going to get from Jake Paul now? Like, we know he's, he got his real fight, he got his quote-unquote real fight, he got his real boxer. I think the chances of him fighting,

Canello. I mean, Terrence Crawford retired. We didn't even mention that, of course. Terrence Crawford retired. What an incredible career. That guy had, one of the best ever, in my opinion, in terms of skill. But, like, what, like, so kind of a two-part. Do you believe Jake will fight again? And what kind of, like, are we just going to go back to where Jake's just going

to kind of accept who he is and he's going to fight? I don't know. I'm throwing out names. Like, he's going to fight, you know, he's going to do the Giovante Davis or Ryan. Like, Anthony Joshua's like, go fight Ryan Garcia. I'm like, yeah, that's probably more, like, it's a professional boxer, but you're going to outweigh him by 100 pounds. or like we're not going to see him fighting

Archer Better Be at. We're not going to see him fighting Alexander Usick or so I don't even know there's guys that cruiserweight, they're title holders, I can't think of their names but like we're not going to see him, we're going to see him fighting what he's been doing. He's going to do the Tommy Fury rematch or some shit. So do you think we'll see Jake fight again and

what kind of a matchup do you think we'll see him in? Yeah, I think we'll see him fight again. I definitely don't think this is the end of the road for Jake Paul boxing MVP promotions. I think what type of fight he does i mean i think that's a very tough thing to predict we've never been able to predict what he's about to do it's kind of some of the draw right some of the excitement and

you know that's uh yeah that's that's kind of what's cool about it i guess right because it's like again it's similar to w w like you don't necessarily know what you're going to get you know for the next uh wrestlingania or whatever right that that's kind of the excitement about it but i do think he'll he'll keep fighting he makes too much money and he's young and has energy. I think I can't imagine him not fighting again. And, you know, there's too many,

there's too many options out there. But with that said, I'd be remiss to not say, you know, I hope Terrence Crawford does come back, though. Bucks is retire all the time. This is not a done deal, in my opinion. This is a done deal until I get a really good offer. Yeah.

Fighters are only. retired for as long as there's a good offer. And by the way, like, especially guys who go out on top, like, guys who go out, like, literally just beating Canello become a four-devision champion, like, Terrence Crawford is as retired as somebody's willing to pay him to take an even bigger fight or a bigger, you know, whatever name. And he does come across to me, like, the type that would be cool,

like, just retiring and, you know, chilling in Oklahoma on his porch or whatever with, you know, five yachts in the driveway and a mansion or something. But at the same time, I feel like there's still too much left for him to do. you know like I think there's still like a little bit of a there's still an argument I'm not going to make the argument but I think there's still an argument that you know he didn't fight the best a lot of the best guys you know and I think there's still like big fights out there for him to make to really really prove how great that he is and you know I just I feel like there's there's still I don't I don't know how you say it. You know, there's, there's work left for him to be done, I feel like, still.

Yeah, I mean, I think you retire, if he is, if he actually does retire, like he retires as skill-wise, I'll compare him a little bit to Demetius Johnson, the guy who's skill-wise, maybe one of the most skillful boxers we've ever seen. But unfortunately, the resume maybe is not the greatest, you know what I mean? Like, he didn't have, like, you know, like, Errol Spence is a good win, but then Arrow never fought again. Like, I don't know, like, we never really got to see what Arrow was all about. I thought he was really good.

I thought that would have been a better fight. He beat Canello, but, you know, Canello is 38, you know, is the tail in his career? He's probably not the same Canello. Just like when we talked about Floyd beating Canello when he was young. Like, it's kind of like we didn't, Floyd didn't face the best Canella because Canello was too young at that point. And I don't think Terrence Crawford fought the best Canello at the end of his career. So like, but skill-wise, I think Terence Crawford is one of the most skilled fighters we've ever seen. It's just accomplishment-wise, I compared to Demetri's Johnson where it's like,

Demetrius is amazing, you know, 10-todeled defense, I'm not taking anything away. But I can't compare his. resume of the fighters he fought to like let's say a John Jones you know what I mean it's hard for me or George St. Pierre kind of they're saying to with Terrence Crawford like he fought a lot of he fought good guys but he didn't fight like all time legends I can't look at his resume and say man

look at all these you know look at all these yeah yeah I think you get the nail on the head what I was trying to say and that's I but I think there's still guys out there for him to kind of make all that up and I think he still has the skill the question is whether he has the hunger and the motivation but

you know I think he's still in his prime and it's hard to retire when you're feeling that good and you are that good and you're on top. And again, I think there's still like great fights out there for him to go win. And, you know, so it's going to be interesting with the way the boxing is kind of changing nowadays. And Terence seems to have his opinions on it, you know.

I'm not sure exactly where he falls on these things. but, you know, it seems that some of the business side of things has affected his mental, what he wants to do a little bit. Yeah, yeah. You get where I'm getting out with that, you know. I do, I do. But, you know, Turkey calls you up since I've got a $100 million payday. It's going to be hard to be like, oh, you know what?

Sure. Yeah, so. I don't know if there's $100 million fights out there for him, though. That could be another factor, right? Because there is big paydays where anything that he does. does now is going to be a big payday especially coming off canella win but i'm not sure if there's anybody out there that's worth a hundred million dollars for him now or even i mean even like the 50 i mean he might make 50 as the a side now maybe but i mean there's not really maybe david bina viz if he wants

to you know if benavides will come down a little bit and terence wants to really fucking i mean that's kind of a far stretch there that's a that's a gigantic guy but off the top of my head i'm not thinking of stars that can make a 100 million fight out there. Well, yeah, boxing goes in cycles. You know what I mean? Like right now, there actually are some pretty intriguing fun heavyweight fights. Like a few years ago, yeah. We couldn't say that. Heavyweight heavyweight was pretty dreadful for a few years there. But now we're like, oh man, Usik's so good. Obviously, like Daniel DuBois

out there. Anthony Joshua's still out there. Tyson is kind of still out there. Have you seen this Moses? Yeah. Yeah. I saw him on one of the undercards of one of the, I I think it was maybe the Tyson Fury, one of those five cards was solid. Yeah, very, very talented. So, like, heavyweight looks good right now, but some of the lower weight classes, like you got Floyd's gone, Mannie is still out there kind of doing this thing, but clearly we know what he's doing, like, a couple guys here and there.

But, like, yeah, it's like right now the cycle where Terrence Crawford is at, there's just not a lot of big-named opponents and guys you were, like, Canello was the biggest, and that required him to go up 20 pounds in weight. Like he was 100, what, 147 poundery, he went up to, like, 168 or whatever, and, yeah, it did great, obviously, but, you know, like I said, there's just not a lot of options. And so we'll see, you know, if he is retired man, he put together an incredible career, and he could probably retire just off that pay date he got for the Canelo fight and be done with it. But I'm with you.

I think you're only as retired as the next best offer. And something comes across the table. They come up with something good. Yeah, here's 50 million come out of retirement. Okay, I'm out of retirement. Right. That's the way it always works. That's it.

All right, Matt, well, we're going to be off for the next couple weeks. You're going to be on vacation. We're going to come back in the new year and do our predictions for 2026. and then obviously we got UFC 324 coming up January 24th. Matt, people want to check you out and support what you're doing and obviously help you enjoy your vacation. And I'm the Immortal Instagram and Twitter, the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook.

God, I got 10 million other things going now. I've got my own podcast now. The Immortal Cash, which will be on all the streaming platforms. I haven't released the first episode yet. We recorded it. you know, things apparently take time. You got to figure things out. I got Vitafuel, V-I-T-A, P-H-U-E-L,

creatine, Immortal Coffee. Yeah, I've probably got more going on too, man. I always got a million things going on. Just got my sauna, which is going to be my sauna business, which is going to be cool, right? I'm going to have a mobile sauna business. So, you know, I'm just a masochist, I think, or just a glutton for punishment.

It's like, oh, you don't have any time to do anything. Why don't you just go buy a sauna and make yourself do more? Add one more thing on the pie. And also, for anyone who's curious, you're doing your podcast. This podcast is still happening, obviously. We're not going to stop doing this one. So you just, I know we've talked a lot about doing your own podcast. We're talking about other things than just fight game stuff, you know,

talk about, you know, mindset stuff and nutrition and things like that. So it goes beyond just so people know, like this podcast is going nowhere. But that's a different podcast, what you're doing. So obviously, Matt, man, really. Obviously, like, I know, you know, you're traveling, you're on vacation with the kids and everything. So thank you for still doing this. We obviously appreciate it on the podcast side. I enjoy Costa Rica.

I'll tease it this way. You're going to tell your travel adventure story on your podcast. I will tell everyone right now. Listen to the Immortal cast regardless. It's going to be a good podcast. But when he tells this story that I just heard before we recorded, you need to hear this story about Matt Brown's travel adventures. So make sure you tune in for that. And Matt, obviously, everyone will be back in the new year.

We're going to be off for a couple weeks, obviously. so we appreciate everyone tuning in. Check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course, over the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. For Matt Brad, I'm Damon Martin. We'll see you next time

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