MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Jake Paul, Ronda Rousey Mocking UFC White House Ratings, Justin Gaethje Fighting Again

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the UFC White House ratings as Jake Paul and Ronda Rousey take a victory lap for getting better numbers for the first ever MVP MMA event. Plus it sounds like Justin Gaethje is planning to fight again — is he making the right move or should he walk away while he’s still on top of the world? Also, Ian Machado Garry is getting his title shot against Islam Makhachev but does he have a great chance at pulling off the upset? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All vets are in network. Go to fetchpet.com slash save. Right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet.com slash save. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu.

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still from the UFC White House card, man. It's like that one just does not die, which is a good thing, by the way. But yeah, that's like that event was so huge. Like that's still what everyone's talking about, like basically two weeks later. Not know, right? That's how big it was. Thinking about that, man. Justin Gage has been involved, one on the losing side, one on the winning side,

of two of the most memorable fights in UFC history. You know, not necessarily the most important, right? Griffin Bonner is probably the most important. And you got like UFC one, all these things. things, but between UFC 300 with Max Holloway and in the White House, I mean, Justin Gagey has been part of the, the most memorable fights in UFC history. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. I mean, the guy has been a bonus machine, and he rightfully earned an extra $825,000

for the winner really at Tepori, which is well earned and well deserved. Yeah, like this guy's like, this guy's going to have one of the most memorable careers ever, even though, like, I don't think anyone's ever going to rate him as like the top lightweight ever because, you know, he does have, you know, quite a few losses in there. But, you know, but when you think about the exciting fights, he's put on the bonuses he's earned, he has must-see television every time he fights. Like, that is a reputation that he'll have forever. I don't know to will ever get another Justin Gagey, to be honest,

because it's so hard to, like, fight with his style and actually have, like, a really long career. Because, like, generally speaking, like, when you fight that way, it's like, yeah, you might have a couple good years, but then, you know, then the chin catches up to you or the body catches up to you. but Gagy's like a freaking, you know, fucking thoroughbred. Yeah, and, and he's also a very intelligent guy and a good dude. You know what I mean?

Like a good person to look up to, a role model for kids, and he still got his wits about him. Like, he's still smart if you heard him on the Joe Rogan podcast. Like, he still speaks well. Like, he's still an intelligent guy. So, you know, mad props to him, man. You got to give credit where credit's due, man.

He's done everything right. And, you know, we'll see if he keep. going, I guess, right? That's going to be the big question now. Does Justin Gage continue and do big, more big things? What we might as well talk about is we were going to talk about anyways. On the Joe Rogan podcast, he said he is planning

on fighting again. He did say that. Now, obviously nothing is definitive. Who knows? But he said he is planning on fighting again. He doubled down that Ilya Tupori doesn't deserve an immediate rematch. You know, quit twice is what he said. And I know, you talked about it last week. Like, ultimately, he doesn't make that decision. It's up to the EOC. But I'm

with him in terms of the automatic reality. I hate immediate rematches unless it's just totally warranted. Like when Valentina Shepchino go, you know, surprisingly beat by Alexa Grosso and she was like a five or six-time defending champion, I'm like, okay, you know, she was winning in the fight, she got caught, you got to give her that rematch. But I hate when they just do these immediate rematches for no reason. Like, why are we doing this again? Like, unless you're a multi-time defending champion or maybe a situation like, you know,

where you're just in a division where there's just no contenders, like they could probably do Aspinall gone like 20 times because there's no. I would be there for him to fight outside of eventually maybe a Josh Hoken or when Gable Steveson gets up there. But, like, this one lightweight, like, we have a clear number one contender. It's Armin Sarukian. Like, there's no reason for Ilya to get a rematch. And so, like, whatever, as you said, Justin doesn't make that call, but I agree with him. Like, it was a definitive ending.

He quit on the stool. His team said, no mas. We don't need to see that again right now. I think I'll probably need a lot of time to recover. I don't think we'll see him fight again this year. but I don't like I understand Ilya's popular and he's a superstar I get all that I understand that but why would you do an immediate rematch like I just don't understand I would Justin on this one like I don't think he deserves it I don't think you should give it to him was anybody talking about immediate rematch is that why he's even yeah I mean that's that's why it was brought up right after the fight they're like you know Ilya was so popular and it was a great fight what do you think about the media rematch and that was initially when Justin shut it down and it's it's going to come up because of who are in it or because of because of who Ily is. He is a superstar. And to his credit, like, he did almost finish him early, but the end was, you know, pretty

definitive too with Justin, you know, just bathering him with shots. But it was a great fight. Maybe fight at the year alongside Curtis Blaze and Josh Hokkaid, but I just, to me, it's like, there's other options out there. Like, dude, if Patty Pimbleau beats Benoit Saint-Denie, and that's a big if, like, how do you not do Patty and Ili? That is still a huge fight, and that's a fight to the U.S. can market that doesn't require a title. Like, you don't have to put a title in that fight.

Like, that's a big fight regardless of a belt. So, like, why would you not do that? Even if BSD wins, like, why not BSD versus Ilya? 100%. And BSD's a massive lightweight, and Ili is clearly not. So, like, that's a really interesting matchup. But I just, yeah, like, this is the problem when these things happen. Like, you're just like, let's just roll it back again.

Why? Kind of like they did Diego Lopez. Yeah, like, because now Diego's kind of a no man's land. Like, he's talking about going to lightweight, which is fine. I'm fine with him going to lightweight. but, like, you just ruin him getting fed away title shots because you had to rush him back in there and he got beat worse the second time.

No, that's a good fight too, right? Yeah. So. Diego versus Aaliyah. I would watch that. I would absolutely watch that. But, yeah. But, you know, the whole thing, too, is, like,

I really had the one fight before at Lightway with Charles Olivera. And, like, I don't see where it's justified an immediate rematch. Like, you had your one fight to prove that you can fight at Lightway, and then you lost the title. Like, you haven't done anything at lightweight to show that you are, you know, that this is a weight class that you belong. I mean, beating Charles is no joke either, right? Like, that's not, you know, nothing to forget. But, you know, it's not like he went on a dominant run or anything, you know.

So, you know, and I still say he needs to go back to 45. You know, I mean, look, like I said, Justin Gage is not a gigantic lightweight. look at BSD or Diego Lopez. Man, I can imagine how much they're going to tower over Ilya when he gets in there with him or if he gets him with him. But I don't know. You know, it'd be interesting to see if he can hang with those guys that are that much bigger than him too.

I mean, I remember when Ilya won the title and did that face with Patty. I was like, my God, Patty is huge compared to him. Yeah. I was like, good Lord. Like it looks like two completely different weight classes right here. And Patty Elliott just kind of towered over. Now, we know that, you know, you can negate that guy, smaller guys have become champions.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and Ilya wasn't the biggest guy in Featherway. Let's be honest. Like, he was not, you know, he's a shorter guy, so he's never, you know, he wasn't in the biggest guy at Fedway. He just was more size, you know, more comparable in size to guys like Volcanowski and so on and so forth. But, yeah, I don't disagree. I know we talked about it last week about him going back to Featherway. But, yeah, like, and listen, the guy got busted up real bad.

Like, don't rush him back in there. Like, don't do that to him. because as you talked about, this could be a life-changing fight for him, especially if you rush back and you're not 100% ready and then you get beat again, you may just shatter his confidence forever. So let him take some time, heal up,

don't rush him back, and do the Patty Pimbleau fight, it's still massive, still a huge horror, BSD, as you said, and let him, he wins that, then I'm fine, you working it back into title contention, but don't throw him back in there right now. It just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, and on top of that,

I mean, does he have personal things that he needs to deal with still, too, with the divorce and everything, because as far as I understood, he came back for the White House, not because he was actually ready to come back and fight. And, you know, and I'm going to remind you that I called that for the New Year's. You did. You absolutely did.

I'm just reminding everybody. Yeah, patch yourself on the back. You did get that one right. You said first loss and sure enough, here we are. I'm going to give a couple extra pats on the back for that one. We talked about this real quick last week, Matt, but I do want to mention it here. Like, Justin Gachie, you know, retiring or coming back to fight again. and clearly it sounds like he's going to fight again.

He's going to, quote-unquote, planning on it. And I know, you know, guys like George St. Pierre have said, dude, retire. Like, go out on top. It's so hard to go out on top. And it is. Is Justin making the right move here by fighting again? I know you actually were defending like he should fight again last week. But is this ultimately the right move for him?

Because there's a lot of guys. I think Demetrius Johnson said it too. Like, dude, retire. Walk away while you're on top and you made a bunch of money and so on and so forth. You're undisputed champion, which you've always wanted to become. Walk away. But Justin seems pretty resolved in fighting. So what do you make?

Is Justin making the right call here by fighting again? You know, I think it depends on a few different things. I mean, look, like Justin's legacy is not going to be like a GSP or Demetrius Johnson, right, where people are going to be arguing about whether they're the goat or not, right? And, you know, in that top five goat argument, things like that. Like Justin's legacy is built on being a warrior, being a badass, having an amazing fights. Everybody wants to watch them fight. And now he finally reached the pinnacle, got the title, undisputed.

It's like, I say go fight again. Like, go ahead and milk all the money that you can't. Because now he's more valuable than he's been at any point in his career. And now he has the potential to change that legacy as to his greatness, right? He can go defend that title, let's say three, four times. Now we start talking about how great he actually is. his legacy so far hasn't been built on greatness. Not that he's not a great fighter.

Like, don't you fucking dickheads take that shit the wrong way. Like Justin Gage is clearly a great fighter. But that's just not what his legacy is, right? Like nobody's talking about him being top 10 pound for pound of all time, right? Now he has opportunity to change that narrative. And on top of being such a badass and such a warrior and an exciting fighter that everybody must see TV that everyone wants to watch, now he could actually go defend that title a few times of course make a lot more money now that he's got a title

but also build a you know start towards at least make an effort at building an even stronger legacy for himself and you look at the guys available to him obviously I think we both agree Armand should get the next shot that's the guy and by the way that is a winnable fire for Justin Armin is a great battle it's a good matchup for him Yeah, Justin's got a great take-down defense, a really good wrestler, and Armin striking is okay, I guess, at best. Like, he's not a great striker.

Incredible grappler, but not the greatest striker. That is a winnable fight for Justin. It absolutely is. And also, with a guy like Armin, you're far less likely to take a lot of damage because that's just not his game. He's a very dominant grappler, ground and pound, I guess, but you're not going to take the kind of damage you would against an Ili to Porte. Then you think about Charles Oliva is out there. That's a fight he lost in another undisputed title fight. Running that back could be a possibility.

Or as we mentioned, I mentioned last week, Max Holloway, if he goes out there and deals Connor McGregor, which we both kind of predicted him to do, you set that up. That's like you said. One of the most memorable moments in UFC history is that UFC 300 knockout. Tell me Justin wouldn't like to get that one back. So, I mean, you set yourself up,

and by the way, they're all still top guys, by the way. None of these are Sean O'Malley fighting Cheever, who was like number nine in the world because he wanted to avenge a past loss. Like, Max is still top five. Charles is still top five. Armin, clearly top five. And Ilya, you could run it back with Ili. Illia wins a couple of big fights.

Who wouldn't watch that again? You know, you would have down the road. So, yeah, I'm with you. And, like, this isn't, like, usually when we're talking about guys walking away, I get the idea of walking away on top. I do. It's happened so rarely, and you'd like to see more guys do that. But you're absolutely right.

This is not a George St. Pierre situation where he's nine-time defending Walterweight champion, two-division champion. What are you really fighting for? Demetrius Johnson, 11-time defending champion, made a boatload of money in one championship. What are you fighting for at this point? Gachi's not that same guy. And it's not, like you said, it's not a knock on him. But when you talk about the greatest lightweights of all time, we're talking about Khabibb, BJ Penn probably, you know, things like that. I don't think Justin's in that conversation quite yet because he's just such an exciting, like pound

for pound most exciting fighter, maybe ever. But if he goes out there and can beat Armin and maybe he beats Halloween in a rematch and maybe he beats, maybe he goes to Paury again. Like, think about where his legacy changes. Like how much that changes. how he's remembered. Exactly, man. That's a great lineup. I mean, when you look down the line at the potential matchups, I mean, that's a great lineup for him to go on a little title defense streak and have a whole new legacy, everybody

not only talking about how he's must-see TV and one of the greatest exciting fighters of all time, bonus machine. But now he's got a legacy of title defenses to go on top of that. And now you actually said, I mean, you don't, like, how many times did Khabibb defend his title four, I think? I think three. I think three. Three. You could tell me that Justice Gage can't defend four times and beat Khabib and then they'll start talking about him being above Khabibin in that, you know, greatest of all time lightweight talk.

You know, I mean, I know that, again, it would make arguments, right? There's going to be the argument Khabi was undefeated, whatever, right? He was dominant, all these types of things. But, like, now your legacy is in that argument. Now you're a part of that conversation. 100%. And Islam actually has the most title defense. I think he has four or five.

So he actually broke the record. But yeah, same kind. I get it. What you're saying. Like, yeah, Justin lost it could be. But if he ties him or breaks his record, like you can't not put him in that conversation. Like, you know, especially where, you know,

Lightway's always been a really, really good division. You can't tell me the beating Armand doesn't matter beating if he gets to avenge losses to Charles and Max. Like those are huge wins. And like I said, it's not. And those are winnable fights for him, too. those aren't, you know, he didn't get dominated in those fights like, you know, Khabib is a tough fight for him, right?

I think that's pretty clear. But, yeah, those are winnable fights. Like he could, this is, I say shoot for it, man, go for it. Yeah. And it's also like, it's not like Justin, like, caught Ilya with like a head kick and knocked him out. He was down three rounds to none and he just caught him. Like, it was a war.

Yes, everyone's chin can get cracked. Everyone can get knocked out of him. I mean, you know, he did against Max Holloway. That was a crazy sequence. He got knocked out. But it's not like he's shown this wear and terror to the point where we're like, oh, man, he's slowing down. Don't take that risk.

Don't take that chance. Like, when John Jones desperately wanted to fight Steepi Miochitz, like we all understood, yes, there is a legacy factor there because he always wanted to fight Steepay, and Steepa is seen as the greatest UFC heavyway. But he was also not risking a ton because Steepa was 42 years old, hadn't fought in three years and was coming off a loss to Francis and Ghana. Yes, John had less of a risk in that fight.

then maybe fighting a Tom Aspinall at that point of screw. But I get it. It was what he wanted. He wanted to have that name on his resume. But Justin, like you said, like, if Justin loses tomorrow, if he gets, Armand beats him, Armisturiken beats Justin Gaci. Our opinion of Justin Gashi doesn't change one bit. Like, he's still, pound for pound, maybe the most exciting fighter in UFC history.

He became undisputed champion. He's going to be on that conversation of, like, one of the most entertaining fighters to ever compete in mixed martial arts. My opinion of him wouldn't change one ounce if he got beat by Armiscer. I mean, that's a great point, right? Again, he's not like in a top five pound for pound argument. He's not even in a top greatest lightweights argument necessarily. So he doesn't have anything to lose for going for it.

Right? There's like he's playing with house money now. He goes out and he wins a couple of fights, defense the title against a couple top guys. Armand would be a huge one, I think. I mean, I think that's a huge notch in the belt, avenging a loss to either Max or Charles, another huge notches in the belt.

He doesn't have anything to lose. He loses to those guys. His legacy isn't any less than it was before. Yeah. And you think about, like, who wouldn't watch those fights? You know what I mean? Like, he got spinning back kicked in the face in the first round against Max Holloway,

and his nose got busted really bad. That changed the entire dynamic of that fight because he couldn't breathe. And then, you know, we all remember the ending. But Max is absolutely still capable of beating Justin Gachie. Charles Oliver clearly still very capable of that. But remember that fight. He dropped Charles badly in the early round.

And then he just got caught and got choked out on the ground later. And credit to Charles for coming back. But it wasn't like he went out there and got blown away. That's not really what happens to Justin. When Justin loses, it's usually it's been a war and then he gets caught. Kibib's the one example where it didn't happen because it's Kibn Mrakopov. He was just so dominant. But yeah, like I don't think he loses anything.

Like even if he, even, let's just say, hypothetically, the Max Holloway fight happens and it's just the same kind of ending. Doesn't really change an ending for Justin. It sucks to him getting knocked out. Except this time he gets paid a lot more than he did first time because he's got the belt this time. And that's what we talk about all time on here. Don't forget what we're doing is prize fighting. Justin's value is higher than it's ever been. Take advantage of that shit while you can.

100%. I'm with you. Like I said, I don't see any reason for him to walk away right now. That Armin fight is really intriguing because Armin has been so good. But stylistically, there's still a world where Justin just puts damage on him. We never really seen Armin get damaged like that. How does he react when he gets hit by a Gaetchi uppercut or can't get a takedown? Like these are things we haven't really seen from Armin because he's been so dominant.

So, yeah, like I'd love to see. I think it's a great fight. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. You know, it's a tough fight for Armin, you know? I don't match-up-wise, this is not. you know, the matchups that he's had in the past to get to the title that he's been passed up on for whatever reason. But it's not an easy fight for him.

And I said Justin's still, I mean, how old is he? 37 now? 37, yeah. 37. But to me, I mean, he looks like he's as good as he's ever been. You know, I mean, he doesn't look like he's losing a step or slowing down. Again, I say go take advantage of all this of having the title. Go make as much money as you can.

the time is ripe now. Yeah. And like you said, not to repeat myself, but like going out on top, I do appreciate that, and I do, I do love when guys are able to do it.

But like I said, he doesn't have a GSP resume. He doesn't have a Dmitz's Johnson resume. He doesn't have a Kibb resume. Like, it's not like he's going out there like, I never lost and I never want to lose. That's not who Justin Gagee is.

Like when Kibb, and when Kibu walked away, we all understood, it was dad had passed away, promised his mother. Like, he was just in a totally different situation. I think Kabeb, I mean,

If Kavibibat stuck around, I think there's a world where he's still champion. He was that freaking good. But he decided to walk away when he did. He had a much more personal reason to walk away. But he did walk away on top. But I don't think his goal was to walk away on top. It was just because he was honoring his mother and his dad who had passed away. But GSP walked out on top.

Yeah, but GSP's like at worst, the number two fighter ever. Like, number one, depending on how you want to rank him with John Jones and DeMetius Johnson, and Top Five ever. Like, you know what I mean? Like, Justin's not, and that's not a knock on Justin. I'm just saying, like, he's not in that same conversation. So what is he really losing here? Yeah, that's exactly.

That's what, you know, I repeat exactly what I said, right? Like, he just has nothing to lose going for this. And, you know, so I see no reason not to go for it, man. Like, you know, you got nothing to lose. And like you said, it's not, I don't know, this whole going out on top narrative, it's kind of, you know, like going out with the win. You know, I guess it depends on your legacy, right? I mean, you know, these guys, like you're saying, you know, GSP and DJ, it's like, okay, I see you wanting to go out on top, right?

You don't want to end up like, I don't know, Anderson Silva and, you know, lose a bunch of fights on your way out. But like, does anyone, is anyone, like, look less of Anderson Silva because he lost on the way out? Like, we still remember all the great things that he did. And, you know, so I guess it kind of depends, you know, do you look at this as a business and price fighting, you know, You want you know, do you care about your legacy that much? There's like so many factors to this that you can sit and kind of work your way through so many layers. But for Justin Gagey, he's got nothing to lose at this point.

You fucking go for it. And I hope he does it, man. I hope he goes and, you know, goes on a five fight title defense streak. And then says, all right, now I'm done, right? When he's 40. I mean, which is a realistic thing, right? Like, he could win five title defenses before. he's 40, retire when he's 40,

still got a whole life to live, man, with a lot more money in the bank. And as you mentioned earlier, Justin has always talked very openly about being a prize fire, like making money. Well, he's poised to make more money now than he ever has, because not only is he championed by beating Ilya, who's a superstar, he did the White House. Like the biggest card ever, that moment

was like cinema, it was a movie. So now he's in a great position to go to the EOSCin, say, great, I'm the champ. I want $2 million up front to fight armor, or $5 million. Are they not going to pay? him that? Like absolutely you pay him that. So like now he's in a position where he can really get a huge, huge couple of paychecks. Then you go out and you're really set for life. So yeah, why not? I don't know. I'm the champ. Everybody knows my fucking name. I beat your star. I was the main event

at the fucking White House. Everybody knows who I am. Give me some money. Yeah, I mean, remember, Nate Diaz was a good name. He had a good name, you know, big name, but that Connor fight changed everything for him. Like, it changed everything. He was a good fighter. People loved him. He was a popular guy. But that took him from being like, you know, I don't. don't know what kind of money it was made. Let's just say he was making $200 grand to fight. That took him from that to where he's making $3 million or $4 million to fight. Like beating Connor McGregor changed everything for an A.D.S.

That White House card probably did the exact same thing for Justin Gachey. So why not cash in while you're still... And like it's not like he's lost to stuff. He just won the freaking undisputed title. So, like, clearly he's not lost as... As you said, clearly he's probably better than he's ever been right now. Yeah, I mean, I think he's doing great.

And then, like, his value is higher than it's ever been. So you've got to take advantage of that while you can. 100%. One big piece of news that came out last week from the U.S. White House was the ratings finally came out. And we saw the total number of viewers to watch 17 million, 7 million on average in the U.S., 8.2 million on average with the U.S. and Latin America. The full global numbers are supposed to come out this week, which are going to be even bigger.

But I wanted to ask you because we knew the ratings were going to be solid. And Paramount Plus in the U.S. I think has right around like 40 or 45 million subscribers. That's a pretty good chunk of people who tuned in to watch, and it was only on there, not on CBS or anything. But, of course, Jake Paul and Ronda Rousey had to take their victory lap because they average 9.3 million in the U.S., and they also had 17 million viewers. We talked about this, and I'll be honestly,

we talked about when the Ron, I'm not knocking the Ronda Rousey car by any stretch imagination. I thought that car would get bigger numbers just because Netflix is so huge. You remember it, it was like, it's Netflix. Like, people just accidentally watch that because it's on TV. and they have, you know, 320, 330 million subscribers. But I don't know, like, do you make much of, like, Jake and Rhonda taking a victory

lab, did they technically got better ratings? Or is it like, because here's my thing. Like, great, you had one card. What now? Rhonda's not fighting again, and are we really, are people going to be excited to watch Nate Diaz and Mike Perry, too, enough to break that? Like, you did one card. Awesome.

You beat the White House technically. Awesome. What now? Like, you know what I mean? Like, the UFC, like, the UFC's about to do Connor McGregor in two weeks. That card's going to crush. If he actually shows up in fights, that card is going to crush. So, like, I don't, I don't really understand.

Like, you know, Rhonda doing the whole, like, FU, Hunter. She's still on Hunter Campbell, like, crushing him for that. But I'm like, I don't really know that, I don't, like, yes, you technically got better ratings, but what was the better card? What's the more memorable card? What are we going to be talking about six months from now? What are we talking about two weeks from now? We talked about Rhonda and Gina for about two minutes, because it was,

such a bad fight and it was over in 17 seconds but I don't know I just it's always weird to me like I think they did they deserve to like you know we got better ratings I get it they do but I honestly thought they get better ratings than they did yeah I don't I don't know what they're celebrating there I mean

yeah like you said it's already forgotten that that card happened right the only reason we even talk about now is because you know they're doing their victory lap or whatever and you know I don't know like I don't I don't know what they're trying to, like what Rhonda's trying to get out of instigating Hunter Campbell.

Like, dude's got a nice salary. Like, he lives a good life, I'm sure. Like, he's working on building big things. Like, I don't know. What are you doing? Like, what do you think you just accomplished? Like, I highly doubt that Hunter Campbell said, oh, shit, man, they got more viewers than us. What are we going to do?

Like, no, he's, like, eating dinner at a five-star Michelin, five-star restaurant and relax it with his buddies and talking about the the Connor McGregor Max Holloway fight and who they're going to put on the show you know what I mean like I don't know where where these people think that this stuff actually matters that much you know again if you're building something meaningful sustainable long-lasting and actually threatening their business in some capacity now your things might be a little different like okay like you are able to put on you're able to muster together an event which even per capita you know i don't know if they even have those kind of numbers and entertainment but if you look at

like you know nine million viewers versus whatever 300 million subscribers or whatever the number is versus you know seven million viewers and 50 million subscribers like that percentage is way higher so you know, I don't know. Like, I just not sure what they're trying to accomplish. I mean, you know, if they come out the next day and they're like, okay, well, this is going to be our next show and we're going to beat you again. You know, I don't know, something like that. You'd be like, all right, cool. But like, I don't think Hunter, Dana, Ari, or TKO group, I don't think a single one of these people are losing one second of sleep over this.

Well, it's funny. Like, remember we talked about, like, when Jake fought my. Tyson, that car did insane numbers. Now, granted, I think that was more about Mike Tyson and Jake Paul, but it was, I mean, horrible, horrible fight, but did monster numbers. And then whatever it was, like a year later, whatever it was, they did Terrence Crawford and Canello,

which was one of the biggest fights you could ever do in boxing. And I think they got like 41 million viewers, which was like 100 million less than what Jake Paul and the Mike Tyson got. But I don't remember people being like, oh, you couldn't do Jake Paul Mike Tyson numbers. This is the greatest fight in boxing. You guys suck. Like, we watched because of the spectacle.

And that was, like, I still feel dirty for even watching that show because that fight was so bad. Mike Tyson should not have been in there at 60 years old or whatever it was. But, like, we launched the spectacle. Like, and that was Rhonda's comeback as well. And Gina Corona, like, nobody gave Gina a great shot to win. Like, you know, she was off for 17 years. What do we really expect?

And Rhonda, like, you know, Rhonda, like just, like, Rhonda wanted to go out on a win after she got absolutely battered by, you know, by two people in a row by Holland and obviously Amanda Nunes. But, like, did my opinion of Rhonda's legacy change from that fight? absolutely not. Like that fight meant nothing really in the grand scheme of things. And yeah, it did slightly better numbers than the White House. I get it.

Like they do deserve to say, ha, ha, we won, you know, we won overall. They can take it at victory lab. But, like, what do we really gain here? Like, what, you know what I mean? Like, out of the White House, we have so many stories and so many narratives and, like, so many things affecting the long, like, Alex Pereira, you know, went in there to become a three-division champion. Didn't happen.

That's a huge upset in terms of, like, where he could have gone after that. and now Cyril Gahn's got that rematch with Tom Aspinall, which is infinitely more interesting now because of the whole eye-poke situation and Cyril actually knocking out Alex Brera. You got Sean O'Malley getting back on track with a great knockout. You got Bo Nicol getting a knockout on the White House.

You got Diego Lopez looking great. You got Rufi who went out there and absolutely assassinated Michael Chandler. And then, you know, the Ilya Gaci capping it off is like one of the best fights ever. Plus you get the Iliadipater, he just got the brakes beaten off him in those last two rounds. like Rhonda's done.

She's never finding. Like you said, we're talking about it two weeks later. Like the fallout from that event, right? The aftermath of the event. After the Ronda MVP card, we stopped, I think we talked about the next day and was like, yeah, that was about what we expected.

Cool. Really good production. Okay, let's move on now. Yeah. Like how much did, like that was the end of it? Like, how much did Jake Paul Mike Tyson change the sport. It didn't at all.

Like, we all wanted to forget about that after it was over. You know what I mean? Like, the only thing that that fight changed was, you know, now people, when they go to the athletic commission and they want to make the stupidest matchup ever, they could be like, yo, you let this 60-year-old man fight

this 30 or 25 or whatever year old guy. Like, we could put on this fire, you know what I mean? Yeah, I just like, I don't, I hate that we just kind of have to keep bashing Rhonda, but just like, I don't understand like her her whole like demeanor in this thing like she's celebrating that she beat a car great you did okay you got better ratings on a platform that has three times more than three

times as many subscribers as paramount plus like you said you want to really drill down the averages the white house car crushed it in that sense like they i think i think paramount has 79 million total subscribers worldwide Netflix has like 330 million that's more than three times as big and they got two, whatever it's like 2.2 million more viewers on average. But the actual totals, the 17 million, that number is exactly the same. So like

who really won? I know. I know it's nitpicking, but like you really want to talk about averages. Remember, I said I thought they get 20 million viewers. I really did. Ironic, just because it's on Netflix, it's such a big huge app. When it came out, I'm not, by the way, I'm absolutely not knocking 9.3 million average

viewers. But like, I thought it would get 20 because I was like, man, Ron, is a star. Gina's well known. You know, she's very polarizing after the whole Disney thing. You got Nate Diaz on the car.

You got Mike Perry on the card. I was like, yeah, like, it's good. I thought it would do better and it didn't. You know what I mean? So, like,

I'm not knocking him. I'm just saying, like, I thought that car would do $20 million and it didn't do that. Yeah, I mean, it's just another time, you know,

like, like, I'm only talking about it because you brought it up, you know, and it's like, it's another, you know,

if someone at the gym came to me and asked, me about this. I beg, bro, who fucking cares? You know what I mean? Like, if someone was like, dude, Ronda said this, I mean, who fucking cares, bro? Because no one, I don't think anyone actually does really

care that much. Like, it's just, you know, Ronda's taking anything she can get and, you know, Jake Paul, right? He's promoting fights, so he's going to try to you know, show victories any way that he can. But like, I don't

know why Ronda cares, right? It's like, okay, you got your money. go chill, like go to your yacht and go chill. Like, it's over now. Yeah. Like, you know, like, what do you think you're doing? Yeah, it's like I said, it's a one-time thing. Like I said, Jake Paul and Mike Tyson did huge numbers, but it did nothing.

It's not like they were setting up a huge series of fights and, you know, they're going to build on that. Like, there was no building on that. It was one fight. If MVP can come out and do another card and continue to get good ratings, we'll have a different conversation. But they haven't even said, like they said they're going to keep going, but we've not heard any matchups. You know, and Rhonda's not fighting against. So what are they going to do? Try to headline with Gina Carano and Holly Holie Holm.

Is that going to do numbers? Are people going to care? You know, like, Nate Diaz did not look great in that fight. They're going to run back Mike Perry and try to depend on that to get people to tune in. So, like, one card is awesome. And they deserve to be happy about that. They got good numbers. And they're happy they got good numbers.

But where do you go from here? Like, that's why the UFC is stressing because they got caught. If Connor comes back, if in two weeks time, that card's going to absolutely crush it. You and I both know that. If Connor actually fights. it's going to be massive. I mean, they were selling $25,000 tickets like they were, you know, candy.

That's what Connor McGregor does. He's that kind of star. So, and what, what are they going to, like, what is MVP going to do? Like, you know, I'm not knocking them. I'm just saying, like, they had one card. Great. One card, great.

I remember, like, remember back in the day when they did, it was an XFL when WWE did the XFL, and their first game got, like, really good ratings. They're like, look, we're going to challenge the NFL. And they tanked inside six months. It was one game. One weekend, everyone's like, for the curiosity factor, let's watch this new league with all these different rules. It was one game.

And then they just tanked. Their ratings went down the toilet. Who knows? Like, if MVP's second MMA show is headlined by Mike Perry and Nate Diaz, maybe it does like 2 million viewers and Conner gets, you know, absolutely crushes it, which I'm sure they'll celebrate that because they should. What are they going to say? Like, you know what are you building? Remember, Affliction had two big cards in their own and they went under. So, like, where's the longevity?

It's not one card, it's longevity. Yeah, it's exactly it. So, well, yeah, we'll see what happens, man. Like, MVP's got a long way to go. And again, I've said it from the beginning. I think that they're just barking up the wrong tree, man. You just, you don't mess with the UFC in their game. Like, you're trying to fight them in their own arena.

And I think it's just a bad game to play. So, you know, we'll see what they do. You know, I think that they're pretty smart people. and, you know, I don't know. Again, if you're the, if you're the promoter, I understand taking a victory lap here, right? You got to. You're the promoter. Like, that's what you should do.

You know, you're not going to concede and say, oh, the UFC, you know, is doing great, right? You're promoting. So, you know, I get that. You got to take what you can get. And hopefully, all I can say is hopefully that they do actually keep something sustainable here. I hope they do something good. You know, I think it would be good for the sport, have something sustainable. Again, they're just, they're in a tough battle here.

Like, the UFC's not who you want to fuck with. Yeah, and like I said, by the way, I want MVP to get MMA to stick around. I want guys to have other options, just like when Scott Coker is going to start his new promotionally. I want fighters to have options because that makes everyone better. It means guys get paid more because if Scott Coker or MVP is like, hey, we're going to pay this free agent. Like Saladin Parnas is a really good prospect. And, like, we're going to pay him $250,000 for his debut. And UFC, like, we want him.

So now we have to pay him $300,000. That's good for everybody. You know, I mean, it's good for Saladin. It's good for other free agents. That's a good thing. I want these organizations, and I want MVP to do well. I want Scott Coker to do well. That's good for the sport.

It's good for fighters. But, you know, ultimately, the UFC is still the biggest. And, you know, they're going to, you know, we've seen everyone who's ever opposed to UFC who's like, we're going to take down the UFC. year later, two years later, six years later, they're gone, or the UFC's gobbled them up or whatever. So like I said, pick your battles. I guess is what I'm saying.

Pick your battles. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Expedia. Hey, you, what's you doing? scrolling. Doom scrolling. Looking at other people's vacations. Miami, San Diego, Cancun.

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Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, Peace contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetMGEM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. So, Matt, obviously, talking about the ratings to the White House, that's going to continue to be a conversation.

But real quick before we get out of here, last week after our show, we of course got some announcements about some upcoming fights. Probably the worst kept secret in mixed martial arts was Ian Machado, Gary, getting the title shot against Islam McCachab, U.S. 330, in Philadelphia. Islam making his first title defense, Ian finally getting his title shot. What do you make? Like, everyone kind of saw this coming. As I said, the worst kept secret in MMA.

We all saw this fight. They've been talking about for months. Are you excited for Ian McGarry versus Islam-Makasha? Like, in terms of like, you know, when you think about, man, I just can't wait for that fight. Is that on that scale? Are you like, eh, you know, it's a title fight? Yeah, it's hard to get too excited. But the fact that it is MMA always.

keeps you excited, right? Because you never know what's going to happen in the sport. And, you know, that's the type of fight where something crazy just happens. You know what I mean? It's like the most unexpected times is when the crazy things happen. It's hard to imagine anything bad, anything going wrong for Islam in this fight, though. You got to, you got to concede to that fact. And I'll certainly watch it just for that, you know, one in a hundred chance that Ian lands that shot or whatever.

but I mean, I think it's, he's got to be a massive favorite in this fight. I mean, it's got to be at least five or six to one, if not more. He's got to be a massive favorite. And it's hard to see it going any other way, to be honest. I mean, the reality is Ian, Ian builds his fights by talking and not necessarily the performances. You know, he didn't go out there and put on these dynamic, crazy good, like, you know, he's 2928s guys a lot of times. You know what I mean?

Like, he's not the guy going out there putting on exciting, you know, crazy knockouts. He's not even pulling off like Wonderboy moves or anything like that. Like, he just kind of, he finds a way to win and he's good at it. But I kind of had, I talked about this with, like, Lorone Murphy until the Aaron Pico fight. Like, he just had fights that you know happened, but you don't really remember them. Like, you know, like, I remember the Shavkat fight because that was probably like one of the better fights he had in terms of like back and forth and, you know, giving Shavkat problems in a way that Shavka hadn't really faced at that point. But, like, he beat Bilalahmah. and what I remember most about that fight were the eye pokes.

Like, he poked Bilal in the eye a couple times. So, like, I don't have, like, a great feeling for Ian Gary. It's M.MA. I want to be clear about that. As you always say, anything can happen. But this is going to be more about the buildup than the actual fight. This is going to be Ian talking, talking, talking, trying to sell the fight. But realistically, like, I don't give him a great shot of beating Islam of Kachev.

I don't give anyone a great shot of beating Islam, if I'm being honest. Maybe Michael Morales, because he's a massive dude and he hits, like, a truck. truck, but that's kind of the unknown factor you want in a fight like that, where Mike Morales can put him out with one punch. Carlos Prosses. I don't love that matchup for Carlos either, but he could potentially, you know, land an elbow, land a kick, land a knee that catches his limb off guard. Ian's just not that dude.

Like, he's not that guy who throws these strikes against a big, huge knockouts. He's a very technically sound fighter. And I guess I get why he's getting the title shot, but like, as far as, like, giving him a great chance to win. I don't have a, I don't have a good feeling he has a great chance to win here. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the way I feel. It's just hard to find a way to pick him in this fight. And I mean, he's a good fighter, you know, a really, really good fighter. And he's deserving of the title shot. You know, I know there's arguments to be made for that. But, you know, I don't think anybody's complaining that he's getting a title shot here. It's just a matter of,

you know, matchup wise. I mean, this is pretty much a striker versus. this grappler match up for the most part, right? I think that's the way it's going to be viewed for most people. Against a very superior grappler who actually has come pretty far with his striking, you know, against a good striker who hasn't really shown that he could beat grapplers. You know, he's never facing one at the level of Islam grappling-wise, right? I mean, you know, Shavkat is definitely a good grappler, but is he an Islam grappler? I don't know, you know, and probably not.

So, yeah, I mean, it's just hard to see how Ian wins his fight, man. You know, I mean, he's got to stop the take. Like the best that you kind of see here is he does figure out a way to stop the takedowns, stays on his feet. But then, you know, he's going to be kind of working to stop the takedowns, most of the fight, versus actually being able to fight. And also, like I said, I mean, you know, to me, that stopping power matters, you know what I mean? Especially, like when Dustin Porre fought Islam, you know, he had this couple moments where he was doing good on the feet. You're like, oh, Dustin could catch him because Dustin has that kind of power. And you think about like we talked about to Michael Morales father.

He's a big, physically strong welterily. Man, you got to be careful with that guy because he can hit to like a truck. Like he could stop a take down with an uppercut. And that's the end of Islam's rain. It could happen. Protest kind of the same thing. It's kind of the same thing. throws a knee up to middle, catches him coming in,

boom, fights over. I'm not saying Ian is not capable of that, but he just hasn't really done it. Like, that's just not his game. He's a finesse point fighter. It wins him a lot of fights, absolutely,

but it doesn't exactly ingrain him as like, you know, the most dangerous guy in the division, you know, and he's going to talk a lot. I get all that. He's going to play the, you know,

the trash talk game, but I don't think any of that really affects Islam, like it. I mean, I don't think. No, and the big take, too, is just seeing,

like, you know, he has, It feels like he's going to have to stop every takedown of Islam. Like, if he gets to the ground, Islam gets him to the ground, I mean, it's hard to imagine Islam doesn't finish him, you know, with one takedown. Right? Like, it's just hard to imagine that's not the case because Islam's grappling is absolutely fucking phenomenal. And so it feels like Ian has to stop every single takedown.

Like he can't, you know, do that kind of under the Volcanovsky game plan with Islam, where he made him scramble a lot on the ground, you know, got up a lot of times. It feels to me like if he gets taken down, it's going to be a bad night for Ian. Yeah, and also. I was finished by saying, you know, as you know, I've spoken highly of Ian the whole, you know, for a very long time. And I've thought he's got a lot of championship qualities. This matchup is probably the absolute worst that he could ask for to be fighting for the title. 100% I agree.

And Islam, like, Islam is so good in terms of, like, his grappling, his powers control. You know, he's not a guy who gets takedowns and lets guys up a lot. Like, yes, Volcanozzi had a good game plan. But remember, that was, you know, that was ingrained in Volcanowski's game plan, like, you know, stopping the takedown and getting back up again. He still lost a fight, though. Like, he didn't win the fight. It was a good fight, but he still lost the fight. you think about Jack

like what Jack Delah Madelana did Jack Madela Madalana was like I'm not going to get submitted on the ground and that's all he could do he couldn't do anything else he could just not get submitted and Islam was just like he'd go for submissions he'd go for the finish and Jack would survive escape but he didn't do anything else like he didn't stop the takedown

didn't do any damage he just was like I'm not going to get submitted by this guy and credit to Jack he didn't but nothing else came from it like he didn't he didn't do any damage he didn't hurt Islam he didn't stop the takedowns from Islam he just didn't get submitted Like, where do you pick your poison with a guy like Islam if you're Ian Gary? Like you're like, I'm not going to get taken down.

Great. Then how are you going to beat him? I'm not going to get submitted. Great. How are you going to beat him? And that's the problem. Like, and like I said, I just, I have so much faith in Islam Akashab, like where he's at. He's just, he's just so good.

And I agree with you. Like, this is the worst possible. Like, I would give Ian a much better chance against Michael Morales. I would give Ian, obviously, he already beat Carlos Protest, but I give him a much better chance against Carlos Protest and a rematch. because those are going to be striking fights primarily. This is not. Islam's not going to fuck around with him and say,

yeah, let's just have a full kickboxing match. He's going to go out there. And by the way, Islam's not a bad striker. He's just not known for that. But yeah, this is a very tall mountain for Ian Gary to climb to become champion. That's what it feels like. Yeah, yeah.

And what it also feels like is Islam, you know, what you were just talking about where Ian isn't really known as a knockout guy. He doesn't really have that stopping power. for the most part. Or he may have it or at least hasn't shown it, right? So it's like Islam should be able to survive in his game in Ian's world, you know, potentially the whole fight, right?

But he should be able to survive in his game. He's a good enough striker to be able, even if he just played Ian's game the whole time, like maybe he loses a decision. But I find it hard to believe that Ian can survive in Islam's game for, you know, for even a half a round. And it could be wrong, right? I mean, maybe Ian's worked a lot on his grappling, and I'm sure he has.

I'm sure he's getting better. But, you know, I think that makes it a difficult matchup. And that's why as a bookie, you know, you have to make Islam a big favorite here because you're looking at someone who has to keep the fight in one place and may not even win if it stays in that place. Right? If he even keeps it on the feet, like that does. That's not even a guaranteed win for him.

Like you said, Islam's striking has gotten a lot better. That's not a guaranteed win just because he keeps it on the feet. But if Islam takes him down, is that a guaranteed win? I mean, we got to think it probably is. Yeah, and also we talk about, like, the size thing, like Islam, Islam looks like a welterweight now. He looks like a legit welterweight. Like, he's not in an Iliate-tiporio-s situation where he's giving up, you know,

five inches of height in every fight. Yeah, he is going to be a lot taller, though, right? He looks a lot of them. He is taller, but like, Islam is not a small guy for welterweight. He was a massive guy for a while. Like, he is a normal average welterweight. And, like, he didn't look outsized by Jack and Jackson good-sized welterweight. Yeah.

He didn't look outsized and that. Like, he's put the weight on. Ian's going to be taller, but Ian's taller to pretty much everyone. I think he's one of the tallest welterweight in the division. But, yeah, like, Islam is not in a situation where he's, like, he's still a natural lightweight. He just happens to be fighting a welterweight. He looks like a welterweight now.

and I think in a second fight he's going to be even better because obviously he still had some questions he had to answer in his first welterweight fight like how am I going to deal with a bigger guy how am I going to deal with a more powerful guy clearly it didn't affect him because he basically ragged all jack Delamatta lano land for five rounds and you know and like and I think even jack has like a better finish clearly has better finishing power than Ian Gary does you know what I mean so like there's still that danger factor there I'm not saying Ian can't catch him anybody can get caught but you know I don't have I don't have the same fear with Ian Gary's striking than I would with Michael Morales or even a Jack Delamatta Land. Those are guys who can legit put you out with one shot. Ian's never shown that. Ian's never been that guy. That's not his game. So, yeah, like, I don't, like,

he didn't have a lot of great advantages here. Even if he stops the takedown, like you said, like, it's not, it's not 100% that Ian's just a, just a dynamic, dominant striker. Like, Ian's, or Islam is not bad at it. And the mismatch on the ground is much different than on the feet. So this is, like I said, it's a tough. title fight. I get why you're doing it. And Ian's going to do his absolutely best to sell the hell out of it. I understand that. But I don't give him a great shot to win. Like in terms of like these title fights, like Armin, he has a good shot of beating Justin. Just like I think Justin has a good shot of beating Armin. Now we've seen Gondon a couple times. Like, yeah, gone has a real chance to beat Tom Asper. Like that is not a mismatchez as much as maybe we thought it was originally. This one feels like a mismatchez. It could happen the other way, but I think the safe money is on Islamukach.

Yeah, exactly it. You know, when this fight happens, time is going to be the enemy of Ian Gary. You know, how long can he keep it on the feet? And then, you know, how much can he be dominant when he keeps it on the feet? But time is going to be the enemy because you have to have a certain amount of time on the feet. Because, like, you could keep it on the feet for, say, I don't know, four minutes, and then Islam take him down and negate everything that just happened in that four minutes, right? because he could be that much more dominant in that single minute than Ian was in the past previous four minutes, right?

Again, because we haven't seen those big shots coming out of Ian, you know, he's more finesse. And, you know, and when you look at the judges, you know, when the judges are looking at that, it doesn't look great for Ian, right? Because, you know, they're not going to see the damage and they're not going to see the big shots coming out. So, you know, the fact that this is a 25-minute fight, and Islam has 25 minutes to take him down and, you know, either submit him or pound him out and probably submit him, that's, you know, how Ian manages that time is going to be a big factor, and I'm not sure what the answer is for him to do it.

Yeah, I mean, remember, damage is the most important thing. If Ian can, you know, point fight, point fight for four minutes, and Islam takes him down in lands one big elbow. Well, guess what? Islam just did more damage. And that's what's going to... You slice open Ian Garrett with one elbow. That's going to win him the round.

Like, it's not about controlling the fight for three and a half minutes. It's damage. That is the most important criteria for scoring. You pit or pat punches. You pit or pat punches. Throw a couple of kicks. Great. Islam takes you down on one huge elbow.

He just did more damage in 10 seconds than you did in four minutes. So, you know, those are things that absolutely have to play a factor. And I don't know... I don't give anyone a great chance to just shut down. Islam's wrestling. Like, I don't think anyone's really that. Like, we've not seen it happen yet. I mean, he had a great match with Armin when Armin came in on super short notice.

But even then, I was like, that might be like this toughest stylistic matchup for him, just because Armin's a really, really good wrestler. But, yeah, like, no one's really stopped it. Anyone who's, you know, ever fought Islam has not really stopped it. So, yeah, I don't, like I said, I think a guy like Michael Morales because he's so freaking huge and he's such a power puncher. Like, he's got a shot. But even not, I still would pick Islam.

I don't think there's anyone I pick against Islam right now unless you're talking about it. Let's throw him a middleweight. But at Welterweight, like, there's good fights out there for him. But I don't give anyone a tremendous shot at beating Islam. Yeah, I mean, he just hasn't shown the weakness yet, right? There's, like, you're not seeing anything, you know, that's, that looks, that points to him getting defeated by anybody right now. And like you said, with that dominant grappling and particularly the wrestling, being able to control where the fight is, you know. I don't know how you beat the guy, man, especially if you're Ian Gary.

Like I would not desire being his coach for a fight like his because that puzzle is going to be a tough, tough one to solve. And then not only do you got to have the answer for the puzzle, but you got to go execute it too. And yeah, it's an uphill battle for Ian Gary. But, you know, I'll finish all that with saying, look, Ian Gary, we can't discredit him either. This guy, he's done a lot of great things.

he is absolutely a great athlete and he picks up things quick you know I don't want to completely discredit him like I think he's earned the title shot I think everybody's perfectly happy with him being in that position it's just the worst matchup for him

and can he catch up I don't know in however many weeks he's got to the fight and that's it doesn't seem like he can so you know it's just a bad timing for him. We talk about all the time, right? Like, this, this game, a lot of it's got to do with timing and opportunity, like Justin Gagey, right? Like he came the right time, right place. All the

cards fell just right for him and he sees the opportunity. It just doesn't feel that way for Ian Gary right now. Like all the cards are not aligned for him. Like the stars are not aligned for him. You know, everything is just not in the right place. It's not the right time, right place to be going to fight Islam Makachev. And that also makes the biggest best stories, though, if he can go out there and overcome this shit. 100%. Well, it comes up in August and obviously going back to Philadelphia, Philadelphia is a great

fight town. I've been there a couple times myself for fights. So look forward to that. Obviously, this weekend, we got UFC Baku. Maybe not the greatest card in the world, but you get, you know, Raphael Fizizier against Manuel Torres, which is a good fight. That's going to be interesting fighting in Sharra Bullitt against... Michelle Pereira, I think.

I can't remember who's fighting. Who's he fighting? That's a cool fight. Yeah, so a couple, couple good fights. Early show. It's a Matt Brown show. The main card starts at noon Eastern. I like it.

Very Matt Brown's show. But we got that coming up, and obviously we're going to draw closer and closer to UFC 329, which we'll talk about quite a bit. We've talked a lot about Connor already. But that's a good card, man. Patty Pimbley, Benoit Saint-Denie, Corey San Diego, Mario Batista,

Gable Steven making his debut, King Green on that card against Terrence McKinney. that's going to be a fun fight. So some really good fights coming up on that. Really good pay-per-view number to be where the hell they call them these days. So that's coming up soon. And obviously you'll be doing your Costa Rican retreat right after that. You got it.

Yeah, can't wait, man. Well, Matt, obviously, I always want to give you a chance where people can check you out outside the show what you got going on besides the podcast. The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook at I'm Immortal, Instagram, and Twitter. And as always want to say, a big thank you to everyone that tunes in. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms,

Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course, over on the best website in the world, mMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you then.