MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Jake Paul vs. Anderson Silva; Belal Muhammad Wants Khamzat Chimaev Next

Episode Date: November 1, 2022

Matt Brown returns to co-host the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer along with Belal Muhammad fresh off his win over Sean Brady at UFC 280. Brown will offer his reaction to Jake Paul’s unanimous decision win over Anderson Silva as the 25-year-old social influencer turned boxer picked up the biggest victory of his career over the UFC legend Brown will also answer conspiracy theories claiming that Paul’s knockdown was actually a phantom punch that put Silva down in the final round. Also on the show, Muhammad returns after his convincing performance in Abu Dhabi while explaining the scenario that led to his knockout win over Brady. Muhammad also addresses his next fight where he’s hoping to face Khamzat Chimaev as he offers some cutting criticism towards Colby Covington, who still remains ranked ahead of him in the welterweight division. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I'm your host, Damon Martin, and I am back for the attack with my main guy here. Now these co-hosts in the show full-time, I can actually introduce him every week. he is the immortal Matt Brown Matt what's going on man busy days you know that's what it is but that's a good thing I think you just said it may ago that when the call stopped coming in that's when you got to really worry yeah when my phone stops ringing for like an entire day I'm like all right what did I do like is there some controversy going on I don't know about like do people just forget about me because yeah I don't I don't generally go more than like two hours the text

message much less like a whole day so yeah I'm excited now we're back officially with the co-hosting role. We're doing this on a full-time basis now. So see, you've got a whole other commitment now. Yeah, which is great, man. Yeah, this is a lot of fun. We have a lot of fun doing our thing together. We've done it on and off for a pretty long time anyway.

So you might as well be committed to it and just do it regularly, do it consistently. Give people a good show, man, and get some good insight into the world of M&A. Yeah, absolutely. And combat sports, because last week we talked about Jake Paul and Anderson-Silva, Turns out we were both wrong. We both pick Anderson.

But I will say this. If you go back and listen to the episode last week, you and I both said, we picked Anderson, but we were 100% saying it depended on how Anderson fought. And guess what? Anderson did exactly what we said we were worried about, where he was taking rounds off a little bit.

He was playing around a little bit. Now, let me be clear. Credit where credit is due to Jake Paul. Jake did a great job. Jake did a really good job. He showed a lot of improvements in that fight. So I don't want to tell. I'm not discrediting him.

But I'm just saying you and I both were worried about how Anderson would go in there and how, you know, active he would be? Would he attack? Would he, you know, be really, you know, would he be aggressive? He did, but only in spurts. He would do it like the last 30 seconds of a round or he would do it in like, you know, combinations. That's what we talked about.

That's what worried us about that fight. Yeah. And Anderson's been known to do that even in the prime of his career, right? Like, that's just the way that he is. So there's no doubt that there was a question that he could do that now. And like you said, you've got to give credit where credits do, man. If Anderson beat the hell out of Jake Paul the whole time or knocked him out or something, we would absolutely be putting Jake Paul down.

See, we told you, blah, blah, blah. But that's not what happens. So you have to give the credit where credits do. Maybe Anderson really gave it as all. Maybe he really tried. I don't think he did. But, you know, you can't. you have to assume that both the guys are going in there to win.

Absolutely. Here's the thing. I mean, like I said, and the thing is Anderson didn't look bad. It wasn't like Anderson went in there and he looked like. Like he had moments. I had to fight pretty much tied going into the last round.

And then Jake getting the knockdown in the last round is what secured it for me. You know what I mean? So it wasn't like Anderson just didn't show up. Like I still felt he won round. So, you know, I think discrediting, like I think it's a bad.

It's like what happened with the whole Al Jermaine Sterling. T.J. Dillashaw thing. Do I feel bad? I legitimately feel bad that Al Jermaine fought a guy who was going into a fight compromised. But T.J. Dillishaw took that risk. He's the one who stepped in there compromised. Al J. That's your fault, T.J. You didn't go in there healthy. You didn't go in there two shoulders. That's on you. That's not on Algeman. That's not his fault. You can't come out afterwards and say, well, I had this shoulder problem. You took the fight. You know what I mean? You stepped in there and you took the fight. You lost. No excuses for that.

Anderson didn't have a bad fight. And Jake won. Jake won. Like, I don't, you know what I mean? And I hate this narrative now afterwards. You can't, in one breath, say, Anderson's the toughest fight Jake's ever had. And then when he loses, say, well, he's 47. You know, he's not in his prime.

You can't do that. Yeah, that's the exact same point I was going to come up with, man. That's the exact same thing. And look, the fact is, if you look at the vast majority of pro-boxers careers, you know, I don't want to jump. I don't want to pump up Jake Paul too much here, but he's fought tougher guys than 99% of pro boxers in their first four fights. You know, regardless of whether these guys are real boxers or not, you know,

most guys first four pro fights outside of, you know, like the Lomachinkos of the world and guys like that, they're not fighting world-class athletes. Tyrone Woodley, the basketball player, Ben, even Ben Ascran, Anderson Silva, these guys are world-class athletes. You can't take that away from Jake Paul. Yeah, it's crazy, too, because someone said that to me on Facebook, I think it was. They said something about like how many high-level boxers has Jake Paul fought?

And I said, Canelo Alvarez in his first six fights, his opponents had a combined record of five, nine, and one. And one opponent had three wins. So that was like the majority of the guys he fought with wins. Okay. Now, Canelo, that's not, by the way, that's not to discredit Canello. That's just pointing out, boxers don't, you don't generally fight a good boxer until like your 15th pro fight in boxing.

Now, again, there are exceptions to the rule. Um, Machinko is probably, you know, the golden one. Anthony Joshua a little bit coming out of the Olympics, he fought a little higher level competition. But generally speaking, the best boxers in the world are beating, I mean, come on now. They're picking people out of a crowd at like a state fair to step in the ring and fight these guys and just get demolished. That's exactly.

And with all respect, you know, again, to these guys, like Jake Paul didn't have an amateur career either, you know, and which is what has really surprised me. And where, again, you got to give the credit or credit to you got to show the respect, where he has earned it. Where he has earned is when most guys that don't have this amount of experience, you know, that have the lack of experience like Jake Paul does, they don't perform under the lights like that, right? They can, they break down, you know, and some of the, the, the,

games Anderson was playing and I mean you're going against freaking Anderson Silva and you're what fourth or fifth pro boxing match like that's you know with the millions of eyes on you that's to be respected and let's not forget Jake doesn't come from an athletic background he wrestled for like half a season in high school and that's it it's not like he's coming from like I did karate or I did you know kickboxing or I come from what he's not an athlete by trade like he didn't grow up like he got

He got famous doing vines and YouTube videos when he was like a sophomore in high school. That was the end of any athleticism. He started making money and being famous off that because Logan, Logan, now Logan, Paul, his older brother was a legit wrestler here in Ohio. He was a fifth place finisher in the state finals and wrestling. And you and I both know how good wrestling is in Ohio. So Logan was a legit athlete. Jake wasn't.

Jake is doing all this. Like within the last like three years, he's learned how to be a boxer. Okay. That to me is as impressive. as anything because it's not like he grew up like a lot of boxers do where they're boxing in golden gloves and junior golden gloves and doing something like when they're 12 13 years old you know what I mean like he didn't do that he's not a natural athlete so the fact that he's going out there and knocking out Tyrone Woodley going eight rounds with a legitimate legend and again

that bugs me because one of the things we talked about Matt was Anderson's looked good since he left the UFC he looked rejuvenated he I mean he beat Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. He knocked out Tito Ortiz. And again, I know Tito's what it is, but he still knocked him out. He knocked around like 40 seconds, which is what we expected him to do. Yeah. And he beat you can't, it drives me crazy though. It's like, okay, we all talk about how great Anderson looked and he looked like he's rejuvenated, looked like he's happy, he's having a great time. He just got beat. He got beat. That's all there's through it. There's no shame in that. Jake Paul just had a good night. Yeah, and I'm glad that we're on the same page on this. It wouldn't

end up coming on here and just have an argument versus, you know, I guess it is fighter versus writer, right? We could be arguing about, you know, when we say, Ah, Harrison's old, whatever. But we have to remember, like you were just talking about, what did we talk about before the fight? We did not expect Jake Paul to win this fight.

No. You know, again, you know, me and you talked about it. We said, look, you know, it's going to be really up to Anderson, whether Anderson wins this fight. I don't know if Anderson was at his best, but Jake fucking. beat him, man. You got to give that credit to him, you know? Now the big question is,

what's next with Jake, right? That's the question. Now, he did it. He beat Anderson Silva. That's to be commendable. We respect it. We know you're legit now. That's the way I see it, right? You earn the respect. You're legit. I still don't really care. You know what I mean? You're still like just a mid-level boxer at best to me. But where do you go from here? That's what I think. gets complicated, right? He caught out Nate Diaz, and I'm like, I'm like, that's a step down from Anderson, you know what I mean? Not just in terms of skill, but in terms of size, a huge step. I said it on Saturday night and people got mad at me. Actually, someone from Nate Diaz, his team got mad at me for saying it. I said, I like Nate and I hope he gets paid a boat

load of money to fight Jake Paul. I root for the guy to do that. But Nate Diaz is a 155 pounder who's never had one-punch knockout power, and he'd be giving up about 30 pounds to Jake, to Jake Paul. I said Jake would be a three-to-one favorite. The odds came out. It was almost exactly three-to-one favorite. I'm like, if you're doing it for the payday,

again, I'm all for it. And Nate Diaz would be a big fight because Nate Diaz is a big name. Again, I'm all four of them making a lot of money doing it. But in terms of stepping competition, you're absolutely, it's a step down. And that's not a knock on Nate. I mean, Nate's not a middleweight.

He's never been, like, he's never been a one-punch-knock-up. striker. Anderson is a better boxer. I mean, let's just be honest. I know Nate has that style and everyone talks about the Diaz brothers boxing and they work with Andre. Why get all that? But come on now. Like it's a 30 pounded, like this is, this is even worse. Like Woodley, Tyrant Woodley, who is never known as a great boxer, but did have knockout power. We knew that about Tyron Woodley in his career. He had legit knockout power. Tyrant Woodley has talked about fighting a middleweight, even though he's a shorter welterweight. He is, you know, he doesn't, and we say welterweight.

And you know this, you know this as well, Matt. Like we say Welchway, you never step into a fight 170 pounds. So, you know, Tyrone Woodley weighs 190, you know. So it's not like he was giving up a huge amount of size to Jake Paul. Nate Diaz is a lightweight. And I know he's fought at Welterweight, but I'm talking like if he walks around a 172, I'd be shocked. You know what I mean? He's going to give up 30 pounds, height, weight, size, power, all that to Jake Paul.

Like, again, go get paid. Go get your money. I'll gladly support you. I'll support anyone that wants to go do that. But don't tell me this is actually a really truly competitive fight. Exactly. I couldn't agree more. And that's me personally, I'm a little bit

interested in Jake Paul now. I want to see what he can do. I mean, he surprised me that he beat Anderson Silva. You know, there's not a controversial decision. Like he beat Anderson Silva, knocked him down in the last round. I want to see what he's capable

of now personally. and I think a lot of people were saying this before. Have I had a real boxer, blah, blah, blah. He fought tougher boxers than most pro-boxers do early in their career. I'm kind of interested in seeing what he's capable of now. I don't know who his training camp is or, you know, his sparring partners are and stuff. But it's got me a little bit intrigued as is, you know, where's his ceiling? Well, what also drives me crazy about that is like he had a couple of fights set up in this last year

against, you know, quote-unquote legitimate boxers. Tommy Fury and Hasseem Rockman Jr. Now, do they come from the pedigree of great boxers? Absolutely. Tyson Fury, you know, best heavyweight in the sport. Hassem Rockman at his time was an incredible heavyweight in his own right. But go, I mean, Tommy Fury, I was at his fight in Cleveland. I mean, he looked awful. And then I watched his fight.

I watched his fight when he was on, I can't remember when he was on the undercard or some card. Maybe it was the KSI. I can one of those random influencer type cards. Or maybe it was Tyson Fury's fight card. He fought on the undercard of his brother's card, whatever it was. it was bad. I mean, it was real bad. I was like, dude, this guy, like, I would, I said it today privately, and I'll say it now on the air.

Anderson Silva, I would pick him to dismantle Tommy Fury. Like, I think Anderson Silva would toy with and finish Tommy Fury. So, okay, Tommy Fury's got like nine or ten pro fights. Does that mean it's better? And then Hossi Rockman Jr., I mean, come on now. Have you looked at that guy's resume? I mean, he just got washed by Kinsey Morrison, who is Tommy Morrison's son. It's like the son of all the famous boxer fighting.

Kenzie Morrison might actually be a decent prospect. He knocked out Hossiem Rockman Jr. Would those have been tougher? I mean, Rockman, maybe, because Rockman had a little bit of size. But, like, you're going to tell me Tommy Fury is really a tougher matchup than Anderson Silva. I would, I would, I laugh at that idea. Well, all fairness to Jake Paul, people tell him he needs to fight real boxers. So these guys are real boxers.

They're dedicated professionals that, I don't know, they probably make a living doing this, right? So, hey, Jake should fight. Have you seen Tommy Fury fight? I've never watched, but I've heard you're not the first person to tell me how terrible he looked, so I can only guess. And, you know, again, I don't have to watch to make my own decision, but when I look at Tyson Fury, I mean, he doesn't look like he's doing anything special other than, you know, some of his defensive work and, you know, for heavyweight, some of the stuff the way he moves. But, you know, he's kind of an awkward guy himself. So I don't know if maybe Tommy's that way, but it just works. works for him. I don't even know Tommy's record or anything.

You know, I mean, he's like, he's like, I think he's like eight and no or nine and oh. And his, he's, he's in that, he's in that, he's in that, he's in that, he's in that, he's in classic boxer thing where his opponents are all like, oh and two, one and three. Like, he's doing, he's doing the actual typical boxer thing where his records padded because he's fighting, you know, low level guys who probably should be. I mean, he fought Anthony Taylor, you have, UFC mixed martial arts guy, Anthony, pretty boy Taylor. The guy was training with Jake for a while. He had like, he had like, he had like a foot of height on him.

like Anthony Taylor's like barely a welterway like he's a short guy and it was I mean it was a four-round fight I think it was a four-round fight in Cleveland it was bad I mean it was a real bad fight did Tommy win sure he won but like he didn't hurt him he didn't knock him down this is a guy if he was actually as good as he should be he should have wiped the floor with Anthony Taylor he didn't Anthony Taylor stuck around made it every round it wasn't really competitive but it wasn't a good fight either like it was just like he did enough to win you know he did it just enough to win and got out of there. I mean, dude, like, I just... I mean, on

that note with the way the boxers do that, you know, a lot of people call it patting the record, but a lot of it, the other side of that is they're just getting experience, you know? This is where MMA fighters make a huge mistake, I think, constantly, I made the same mistake when I was coming up because there's this a culture

of MMA. These guys have five, six, ten amateur fights. You know, 10, there's a lot of amateur fights for these MMA guys. And then, you know, they go in and they start, I mean, how many, you know, 5 and 0 or 10 and O guys do you see in the UFC fighting world-class guys? I mean, it's a mistake. Like, what they're doing in boxing usually, you know, they'll find a guy that they know is beatable,

but they also see something in them that's going to test their fighter. Like, maybe he's just got a good jab. Okay, let's see how our guy does against the guy with a good jab, you know, and if he can get past that jab, then, you know, he's going to win the fight, you know. But he does have that one thing that's going to give him some profit. or sometimes they'll go up against the guy that's like, you know, he's a good boxer, but he's just, or not a good boxer, but he's just really tough and gritty. That was an Edgar Berlanga just fought a guy like that a few months ago, right?

And Edgar looked terrible, right? And we were like, most of us, if anybody that follows boxing was watching, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, it's all this hype on Eggers, maybe not all that, right? He had, I don't know how much you know about Edgar Berlanga, but, you know, had a lot of hype behind them and then you know so that that's what they're doing they're putting specific tests for specific reasons and you just don't see that in m. And Jake Paul really hasn't done that either. He has went against guys that are proven world-class athletes. Yeah, I mean, you can you can you I guarantee you could throw in some three and oh four and oh boxers right

now and Jake Paul would knock him into left field because we know that again, boxing is not built that way. I mean, you can have a pro record in boxing and doesn't mean you're a great pro boxer. You know what I mean? Like, that's just not how boxing works. I mean, that's typically speaking, you don't. You're not, like I said, Canello didn't, I think, I think I did this research once. I think Canelo didn't fight an opponent with a winning record to like his 10th or 11 pro fight, like when they actually had like a, you know, a 3 and 2 record versus like a 2 and 4 record or whatever. But again, I guarantee all those first 10 guys, they all had something that they seen, but like, okay, we know Connell's going to win. So it's

going to build his confidence. But we're going to see how he deals with, you know, whatever type of adversity. There's some type of adversity this guy is going to create at some point in the fight. And we just want to see how Canello handles it. Yeah. And listen, like I would right now, like I said, I would pick Tyre Woodley to beat a lot of pro boxers if you just want to throw out just random pro boxers with no, no resume. And I just said, I would 100 percent right now, I put money on Anderson Silva beating Tommy Fury. I would 100% put money down on him beating Tommy Fury. There's a culture of just, again, you know, Jake is a real polarizing guy.

And, you know, but see, the difference, I remember back in the day when we, when our old podcast went viral, when we talked about CM Punk coming in the UFC and you went off on CM Punk made Sports Center, all these things. The difference is, is that while CM Punk took a shortcut, and by the way, I've talked to Sam Punk's. I like Sam, by the way. I've talked to him, interviewed him a couple times. Seems like, I mean, I always had a good conversation. He is a legitimate fan. And I give him credit for that. He's a legit mixed martial arts fan. The problem is being a fan does not make you a legitimate fighter. I've been a fan of mixed martial arts

for 20 years. Ain't no chance way or form I'm stepping into the cage to do battle with anybody because I'm not that dude. I'm just not. Jake Paul, yes. Jake Paul, like you can say it's a shortcut. Like CM Punk got a shortcut to get in the O.C. He knew Dana. It was his dream to fight the UFC. Okay, he took a real shortcut. Yes, Jake is taking a shortcut because he's famous. He's got a, he's got a fan base, and he's doing it. But at the same time, like, he's just out there making money and he's having fights, and he's, and he is getting tougher competition. And there's just like this stigma because Jake Paul is Jake Paul. And you don't have to like Jake Paul. I don't care if you like him or not. You can hate the guy. I don't really care. But you can't discredit say

he's not, he's not taking a risk and not getting tougher fights. Now, if he fights Nate Diaz, I think that actually would be a step down from Anderson Silva. Exactly. You know, but again, if he's going to get paid a boatload of money and it's going to do a bunch of pay-per-view buys, listen, I mean, I think it's hilarious to Floyd Mayweather's fighting, you know, a social influencer in Dubai or whatever. And we know there's no risk. And if he's going to make a couple three million dollars from it, whatever, I don't care. Yes, it would be a step down to fight Nate Diaz. But hey, if they're going to make a boatload of money in doing it, I'm not going to stop him from doing it.

For sure. for sure yeah and again you know i think the forgotten part too is you know these boxers coming up fighting these uh non-winning record guys these kind of journeyman or whatever these guys they know they're going to be they're doing that in front of crowds of 100 or 200 people Jake paul you have to respect the fact that he's doing it in front of the fucking world yeah you know like if he puts a lot on the line like his rep you know maybe not his reputation. I don't know. Like, when you have the lights on you, you're the main event, you're putting on the show, you're, you're putting your balls on the line, man. Like,

there's something to be said for that, and he handles it well. He fucking handles it well. You know, and with all that, he's going in and again, you know, he fought Anderson Silva. He didn't fight some, you know, O and eight scrub that he knows exactly how to beat. And he did, you know, in a main event, pay-per-view, his own show, in front of millions of people in an arena. If anybody's ever, any fighter that's ever walked out to an arena for a cage fight understands how intense that can be. Yeah.

With Jake Paul doing it, you have to stamp some respect on that. Absolutely. Also, did you, I'm sure you probably didn't see this because I didn't see it until just a little bit ago. Did you see this conspiracy theory that's, floating around now that Anderson took a dive in the last round because people are trying to break it's so hilarious it's like watching jfk and they're breaking down video footage like saying that jake didn't really connect with the punch in the eighth round that knocked him down they're like it's a phantom punch he went down he threw the fight and i'm like okay i was like we're in a

digital we're in a media era now where everyone's got phones everyone's got like there's a billion views of that fight from different angles watch the replay he got clip like the idea that Anderson Silva is going to take a dive to Jake Paul. It is hilariously stupid. Like, that's how far people will go to try to discredit Jake Paul. Like, okay, again, hate him all you want. But don't go down that, like, fixed fight angle. Because we hear that all the time, Matt.

We hear it in the UFC. When someone people don't like wins or loses, it's contemplated. Oh, they did, they did. They took a dive. No, they didn't take a dive. He got caught. Like, he got caught with a punch. And he was off balance.

I mean, I don't think it was like a clean, huge knockdown, but he got clipped, he went down, he got back up, fight continued, made it to the final battle. I don't know, it's hilarious to me. The excuses people will make to discredit somebody in a fight. Yeah, I'm with you. I didn't really, you know, observe it that close

or located in conspiracy theories or anything. But, you know, whatever. Maybe he did take a dive. Who cares? He still beat him, so, you know, we still seen a whole fight. So whatever, maybe, maybe that's true. He'll get exposed later. You know what I mean?

Like you can't do that forever, right? So I don't think it did happen. But, and I think, you know, just like we had talked about before the fight, you know, it came down to Anderson. And I didn't see where Anderson really cared. You know, he's getting a big payday. He's 47 years old. He's, you know, a legend amongst legends.

And the UFC, he's had his title runs. Like, you know, there's, you know, the old. saying, right? Like, it's hard to get up and go run when you're sleeping on silk sheets, you know, and Anderson's not hungry for this. There's no doubt about it, right? Like, he, he's not hungry to fight Jake Paul. So, you know, you can, you can give that to Anderson. You know, you can make that argument. But everybody wants to just turn and say, oh, it was a dive or whatever. Well, it probably wasn't. And if you're just going to make an unfurston, and if you're just going to make an unthink, comment on that, then you're just an idiot.

You know, like you said, there's fucking cameras everywhere. Like, it's not an easy thing to accomplish. I remember they did the same thing with the Tyrone Woodley fight, right? Like, with him, like, dropping his glove or you gave him some kind of a signal or something. Yeah, gave him a little signal to knock me out now or something. Like, you know, I don't buy it. And, you know, but we're also in this world of social media and the age we're in, I think you would agree with this is like, you know, we're also getting everybody's opinions.

We get to actually see everybody's opinions. And you can just realize how dumb the fucking world is. Like there's a lot of dumb people out there. And when before social media, when we were kids, we got the stupidity of like the 20 people around us. Now we get it from the 20 million people around us. Yeah. You realize like, oh, those 20 people are actually smart. than most of these other people, right?

Yeah, dude, people say some really stupid things. Like I said, it drove me crazy last week with the whole Al J. Stirling thing when everyone's like, you didn't beat a healthy T.J. Dillishaw, you didn't deserve the win, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what did Al J. Al Jameen do wrong? Like, what did he do wrong? You went in there and won a fight. Like, it's not on him that his opponent came in their compromise.

And to T.J.'s credit, like, he actually said afterwards, he said like I fought with this injury before and I won with it, you know, all this kind of thing. So it just drives me crazy. Like I dislike the fact that TJ went in there knowing that he was, you know, physically compromised. But that's not on Aljimane. That's not his fault. You know what I mean? Like if you go in with a fracture in your leg and your leg breaks, guess what?

That's not your opponent's fault. That's your fault for going in there with a fracture leg. And I can see some criticism if it goes to a close split decision. Yeah. You know what I mean? Then you're like, oh, Al Jermaine, you almost lost to a guy for a controversial decision. You almost lost to this guy that has a torn shoulder and shouldn't even even been in there fighting. He did what he was supposed to do to a guy that's fighting without an arm.

Yeah, exactly. It just people, like I said, people go out of their way to discredit guys for stuff like that. And it drives me insane. Like, I just don't understand the logic behind it. When, again, you know, that's just the world we live in, right? It is. It is. It is.

and everyone else. And, you know, I'm fine with that. Like, a lot of people try to discredit what I've done, you know. And I'm sure even as a journalist, people try to discredit what you do. And it's fine, you know, like bringing others down doesn't bring you up. And I think a lot of people don't understand that. Yeah, it always, that has always bug me when it's like you don't get any taller by stepping on someone's neck, you know, when they're having like an off night.

Like, like, that kind of stuff dry. Like, I, like people were, I remember when Kamar Usman got knocked out by Leon Edwards, there were so many people celebrating, like they weren't celebrating Leon. They were celebrating Camaro's downfall. And I'm like, why? Yeah, you can't do that. Like, celebrate Leon for doing a great job and making a huge comeback in a fight he was losing and he pulls off this incredible knockout.

Celebrate that guy. You're not getting any taller just because you're standing on Camaro at his lowest moment. Like he got caught and knocked out, lost his title, you know, lost everything in a way, in a way, you know, you lose everything in that moment. And as you said, high profile. all the lights are on you, main event, all that kind of stuff. Like celebrate the other guy, but don't, don't, don't tear down Camaro. Don't feel better about yourself because Camaro lost.

That's garbage. And Camaro was dominating the fight other than the first round. You know, Leon, I mean, how much credit can you give this guy? I mean, this guy did an amazing job. You know, the only guy to ever take down Camero Osmond, who's right, however you say, Usman, you know, did, great in the first round, ended up getting down all the rest of the rounds, and then comes back and finds a way to win. I mean, you just got to, I don't see how you bring, try to bring Usman down on any of that. I mean, just, Usman fought almost the perfect fight, and Leon landed the

perfect shot. You know what I mean? Like, this is the game of interest that we play. Yeah, absolutely. That if I was also at altitude, which, you know, you saw that that night, man. It messed with everybody. I'm trying. Have you fought, I know you train in Colorado. Did you ever fight in Colorado? Did you ever fight in altitude?

I've never fought an altitude, I don't think. Dude, it sucks. Every time I talk to a fighter who does, it's like, oh my God, it's awful.

It's the worst thing. I always kind of forget Salt Lake City was actually an altitude. We always talk about Denver at altitude because you lived in training in Denver. But, uh, yeah. There's,

you notice a difference when you train. Like you're, dude, I remember when I drove, the first time I were, drove to Colorado, went on a camping trip after my senior high school. We drove and we did like a two-week camping trip. We went through Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota, all those areas out there. When you drive over the Rocky Mountains and you're like driving up and down in the Rocky Mountains,

like, do you feel it in your lungs just driving through there? Like you notice a difference in how you're breathing just being at that thin air. You know what I mean? Like I didn't think it was real. Now, this is years ago, but I didn't think it was real. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, it's a real thing. Like it actually does make a difference when you're at that. kind of altitude, even just driving. It makes a difference. You feel it in your lungs. Yeah, absolutely.

And it gets worse throughout. They usually say like the first, I think three or four days is actually the best time. And then when your body is actually trying to produce the red blood cells to catch up. So that's where the benefit is, right? Over time, over six weeks or three weeks, however long it is, you build these red blood cells. But when your body is actually producing those red blood cells, that's taken a lot of energy for your body to produce. And that's actually the worst time.

The UFC generally flies us out on Tuesday, four days before. So that's the worst time, especially after putting your body through a weight cut and, you know, all the stress and everything. That's the worst time for your body right then. That's when you feel it the worst. Like I went out there before, you know, in tip-top shape. And the first day, you're like, oh, this isn't that bad. You know, your lungs feel a little more shallow, right?

You don't get quite as much breath and everything. But over those few days, it drains the living hell out of you. Yeah, it's crazy. And like I said, and then going in there and actually fighting on it. Like, because if you watch every other fight to Kamar Usman, this is again, then I'm not making excuses for the guy. I'm just saying like you watch every other fight. He's had conditioning is one of his biggest weapons.

And he looked tired. Like by the close that fifth round, man, he was a little bit labored in his movement and stuff like that. Like that's a real weapon. We saw it. We see it all the time. Conditions a weapon. He lives out there now. right he does he lives in denver yeah and he fought in salt lake's but again you know as well as i do like

training and fighting or not you know the exhaust you put yourself through in training is not what you feel like in fighting you know like it's it your adrenaline's different your adrenaline's different you're just it's a different feeling right like you know yeah yeah i just say i i just say i just say it didn't seem to me that he he got hit with that kick because of no no no i'm just saying i'm just saying Like, you can tell, like, they were both dog tired in that, in that fifth round. Like, they were both, like, pushing each other to the brink. You know what I mean? That's not, again, that's why I give you Leon Edwards so much credit.

I'm like, damn, he pulled it off. Like, they're both exhausted, dog tired. Fights pretty much over. Camaro's winning, you know, it's pretty much done. And, boom, out of nowhere. And like I said, dude, credit to, credit to Leon Edwards. Don't discredit. You know, that's the, like I said, going back to Jake Paul thing, like, Bill,

Jake Paul just did a good, you know, again, you hate him all you want. just don't say he didn't do a good job and don't suddenly say Anderson's old and decrepit because the fight didn't go the way you wanted it to go. You know, the fight didn't go. I'm the exact same page with you there. And if Anderson is old and decrepit, you know, if he went, if he got old overnight,

you know, that happens, right? But we can't blame it on that because, like you said, he's looked good. So we have to go by the history, right? He has looked good. So you have to take that into account. Now, if he comes back and fights again, you know, some, I don't know who Anderson, who Lord knows who Anderson would fight next, right?

But comes back and fights again, looks old. Then maybe you could look back and say, okay, you know, maybe he was a little, you know, got old, right? But he hasn't. So we can't go there right now. Yeah, they always say it. Father time is undefeated. But I tell you what, that dude looked like he found a fountain of youth in the last couple of years.

We can't sit there and lie about that. Like, dude, he looked. He looked, like I said, I was, and I was so legitimately happy for Anderson. So it looks like he's having so much fun right now. Like, even in the Jake Paul fight, it looks like he's just having fun right now, doing it. He's got freedom. He's doing his own thing.

You know, and again, good for him. Like I said, I'm never going to fault a guy. That's what I said. If they do Jake Paul, Nate Diaz, will it be, you know, will it be a competitive fight? I don't really think so. I just, I just don't see that being a great competitive fight. But, you know, they're going to pay him a few million dollars to fight each other. and then pay-per-view points in the back end?

Good for them. Like, I'm not going to, you know, like, I don't, I don't, I'm never going to follow. That's like when, like, the Floyd Mayweather thing, like, am I interested in watching him box outmatched fighters who have no business being in the ring with him? No, I'm not going to put down my money to watch it. But if somebody wants to pay this dude three million dollars to go out and beat a dude who has absolutely no business being in the ring with him, more power to you. Like, I don't really care.

Like, I'm not, I'm not, you had a great tweet over the weekend. talking about, he's like, are there people who really complain about fighters getting paid more money? Like, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And I was like, yeah, I know I see it all the time. Like, I put up fighter pay stuff all the time. And they're like, if they didn't like what they're getting paid, they shouldn't assign the contract. And I'm just like, oh, my God.

Like, you just stop. Just stop. It's just so strange to me, right? Like, these are the guys that are entertaining you. This is who you want to fight. This is who you want to watch, right? This is like, I mean, if you were, like, I don't, care what job you're working at, like, you want more money.

Yeah. You know, I'm not one of these, you know, go out and complain about fighter payouts. I'm not trying to start a union, all this stuff. But, like, you know, if someone does construction on my house and they're like, man, I wish I got paid more or something, I'm not going to, you know, I'm going to tell him to fuck off and be like, yeah, man, you should tell your boss that, right? Like, you're working out, bro, good for you. You know, I'll support you.

I got your back. But these guys on social media, it's so weird. They're just like, oh, yeah, we get paid enough. Or in particular our own coworkers, and I guess this Jake Matthews guy, right? It kind of started this whole thing where he's like, oh, yeah, I make enough money. It's like, at what job in history does anyone ever just say, hey, I make enough money? I'm cool. Yeah.

I've never seen this before in my life. but these fighters some fighters and some fans are just like oh yeah you get paid enough it's it's so strangest thing i've never heard of this before yeah it's so bizarre like and it's so funny because you rarely see those people like i'm not saying you should complain i'm just saying if you're going to complain and you're going to say people like if you're going to say people are making too much money go after like jeff bezos or Elon musk the guys who are making billions and like their employees are not making like a you know the pittance of a percentage of what they're earning go after them you're saying they're making if you want to

say Dana White earns too much money. Okay, fine. You could say he makes too much money versus the fighters. But saying the fighters don't make it make too much money or they're getting paid plenty? Like who in the history of the world legitimately says that? Like, it just makes no sense to me.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say like Dana makes too much money. And I don't think he does. I mean, I think David's done a great job and more power to him. You know, he's fucking brought this sport. almost single-handedly, you know, from nothing to what it is now. So he fucking should be a multimillionaire.

I totally agree. Yeah, I'm not. And I'm not, like I said, yeah, I'm not complaining. And that's what I'm saying. Like, I'm not complaining. Like, you're making, I get it. They, you know, and like my issues come down on fighter pay always come down to like the percentages and the revenue being paid back to the fighters.

It's not what Dana's earning. I don't really care about that. It's what the fighters are earning. You know what I mean? Like, I think fighters are vastly underpaid. in the UFC, Bellator, across all organizations. Now, you can make a list and say, like, you know, the lower tier new fighters, what they're getting paid versus the veterans like yourself,

or you're talking about champions, things like that. But everybody across the board is getting underpaid. But complaining about that, like, I'll never, because that's like the people who complain to you would, like, let's say there, and I'm not knocking anyone's profession, by the way. I'm just picking something out of a hat and saying, like, you mentioned construction work. The construction worker says, Matt, you're making too much money as a fighter.

You shouldn't complain. You're making plenty of money. Would you, would they care and turn to you into their foreman and said, you know what? This Don guy, he's a piece of shit. He shouldn't be paid $16 an hour, $20 an hour to work on my house. Screw this guy. Would he want that? No, of course he wouldn't want that.

He wouldn't want you diminishing his work and telling him he should make less money? Like, it's so crazy to me. And I think that was one of the people I've always. replied to on one of those tweets. I was like, you know, what's your job, bro? And I can't remember what he said it was. And I was like, well, maybe I think you make too much money. Yeah. It's like it's just so strange, man. It just doesn't make any sense. But, you know, and again, I'm, you know, what where I do agree is the when the people, maybe not totally agree, but, you know, when these people, they say, well, negotiate a better contract. And I'm like, you know, that's fair.

because, you know, us as fighters, we're not good at negotiating contracts. It's certainly not our forte. I have not negotiated my contracts well. You know, and I want to, you know, put this out there's addendum to everything we're just saying. Like, you know, I've been happy with the amount of money that I've made, you know. And, you know, I'm part of the reason probably why we don't get paid more than we do.

Because there's a million guys just like me that when they call us and they ask us to fight and they say, this is what you're getting. paid, I say, okay, fuck yeah, I'm blessed to get to do this and this is awesome. And, um, you know, us changing that paradigm mentally is really what needs to, what would have to change for us to make more money. So there's, you know, that there is an argument to be said for that. So if someone comes at me and says that, I get that. If they just say, I don't know why you want more money you get enough money. It's just the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life.

Yeah, yeah, it's one thing to say, like, you know, and also, and not to, you know, just to start out there as like a defense, like you only have so much wiggle room in negotiations with the UFC. Like, we went into the UFC tomorrow and you called Sean Shelby. He said, you know what, Sean, I want to fight, but I need $3 million. He's going to hang up the phone on you. Like, they're just not getting out. And that's the problem.

Like, that's the bigger problem is like you can't that, like, you only have so much room in negotiation, you know what I mean? So, yeah, like I said, there's, there's complaints you can make across the board. And you're absolutely right. You can say, like, fighters don't negotiate hard enough for better pay and things like that. And that's true because, and you know as well as I do, if you say, hey, Sean, I want three million. And they're like, no, there's going to be some welterweight out there who will take $60,000 to go fight on UFC fight night, you know, 92 at the apex. And they're going to say, well, Matt, you're on the shelf. We got, you know, Joe, you know, Joe Johnson who's going to step in here and fight for 40 grand and do it with a smile on his face.

You know what I mean? And that's also fighters, listen, I'm always for the, I'm an advocate for the fighters, but you and I both know fighters do undercut each other sometimes. We had this thing years ago with sponsorship. When people talk about when people talk about sponsorships years ago, what one guy will take $5,000 to wear a T-shirt, if there's another guy who will fight on that exact same card, two spots lower, he'll do it for $2,000. guess what? They're not getting $5,000 anymore. Exactly. And that's where I put my own, my own experiences is where I can say,

look, I'm part of that problem. I'm that guy that was willing to do it for less. I'm certainly a part of this problem. So again, you know, people want to say, you know, we should negotiate better. I agree. I should negotiate better. I've always been a simple, a happy person. and that's not the way that that's not the way you make money. You know, I've learned and with my business that I own, I do things very different.

You know what I mean? So, you know, it's just a learning process, but the vast majority of fighters are young kids that have a dream. The UFC has built the biggest brand in history for combat sports. and we have a dream for being in there. So we're willing to do it for anything. We dedicate our entire life to do it. You know, I don't know, how hard do you think it would be

to find these guys that would fight for free from the UFC? Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like if just to get in the UFC, if Dana went around, did a contender series and said, look, you know, I'll let, you know, we'll do a lottery and one guy gets to fight for free in the UFC. did there be a million people sign up?

You know, like, and a half of it would be, you know, for the potential monetary gain later, right? So maybe I'll win and get a big contract, right? It's kind of what the Consider series is. These guys aren't making money doing that. And then the other half would be the guys that just simply want to be in the UFC.

I don't know how many guys I've trained with throughout my life. They're up-and-comers, you know, kind of asking what their goal is or what their motivations are. they're like oh i just want one ufc fight man i just want to feel a c experience i'm like what are you talking about bro it's so it's strange to me you know but this is a common thing it's like a status symbol you know what i mean it's like it's like being the it's like being the popular kid in high school and you went to you were the king of the prom or whatever like it's like you got in the ufc

it's the wrong it's the wrong mentality i i i used to say this to guys or girls when they get in the UFC and I'd say congratulations on getting in the UFC and I've learned to kind of stop myself and say congrats on getting in. That's awesome. But the goal isn't to get to the UFC is to win in the UFC and to win a championship or whatever. You know what I mean? Like I had to re I had to retool my brain because the longest time I was guilty of that. I would say to a final, oh, congrats on your deal. And I do mean that like when you get a contract, like congrats. But that's not the end goal. Just getting to the UFC should not be your goal. Like that's not a status simply. Just because you're wearing a pair of UFC shorts doesn't really mean that much in this day.

age. Exactly. And it's really, once you get into the UFC, that means your journey has now begun. Now you have the potential to make this your whole life. Before the UFC, you're probably working a regular job. You're probably sleeping on mats or doing whatever you have to do to get by. You're starving artists. This is exactly what you are. Once you get to the UFC, now you actually, you know, maybe even Belletor or PFL these days. I don't know. I don't really know how their contracts work. But the UFC certainly now you have the opportunity to make this your livelihood. You have opportunity to make this a huge thing for you. The sky is the limit. So, you know, I don't say congratulations on getting to the UFC either anymore. And I would say congratulations on the

beginning of your journey. Now, you know what I mean? Like your journey, like all that other stuff was walking up to the mountain. Now you're at the base of the mountain. Yeah. I said, an interview that will come out next week ahead of UFC 281, which we're going to preview next week. I know we're both very excited about that card. Had a conversation with Carlos Spars, the UFC Strawaway Champion,

and I said, you know, I think it's 2,612 days between her title range. Like she won the first ever strawweight championship and she had to wait that long, that many years, like seven years or whatever was to get a title again.

And I said, like, that's such a remark, if you want to model yourself after somebody, model yourself after somebody like Carlos Spars, who was champion, got knocked down, didn't fight a title, for the title again for six, seven years, then went out and won it again.

Like, that's what you aspire to, not just getting to the UFC. Like, aspire to be a veteran like Matt Brown who's been in there for years and earns bonuses and is a fan favorite fighter. And every time Matt Brown fights, we're all like, oh, my God, it's a Matt Brown fight. Inspire to that. Don't aspire to just get in the UFC because there are guys and girls who just want that logo on their shorts. And dude, guess what? You can go to the store and buy a pair of Reebok shorts or Venom, whatever is the wrong now.

and by a pair of shorts at UFC. Or again, I think that's sort of the top of the mountain. They made it. They made it. Yeah, they made it. It makes them feel so good. And that's great. You know, you should feel good because that's a big, a huge step up in your journey.

But it's still just the beginning of your journey. You know, and we always say there's levels to this. And once you get to the UFC, the levels change. Yeah, absolutely. You know, the guy that, I think, you know, one of my fighters was figuring that out, AJ, you know, he just had a second UFC fight and lost both of them. And, you know, I think there was something he figured out, right? It's like these, there's levels in here, you know, and you can, um, I tell all my fighters, I say, look, champions trained like champions before they're champions, not after their champions.

You're not going to be a champion unless you're training like a champion beforehand. Um, so you need to be already in the mindset that you're a UFC champion, that you're already there. I made this mistake myself. That's how I can preach it to others because, you know, I kind of, when I first got in the UFC, I kind of had that same mentality of like, wow, this is amazing. I'm here. And then over the years it kind of set in. And I was like, damn, I'm still here, you know.

But a lot of these guys, you know, they don't dream big enough, I think. And they don't, you know, it's a humbling sport, too. So I think there's a lot of days when you get humbled, I'm not really good enough for the UFC, you know what I mean? Kind of things like this. A lot of factors that come into play on all that. Yeah, absolutely. I mentioned...

We can do a whole podcast on that one day, maybe. Absolutely. We absolutely should. We really should. We're also here to minute, just for everyone that's listening here in a moment, I am going to play an interview I did with Bilal Muhammad, of course, coming off a big win at UFC 280, a knockout over Sean Brady. Shocked a lot of people with that performance.

Yeah. And an incredible performance with Bilal. So we're going to play that in just a moment. Before I get you out of here, Matt, we talked about next week, UFC 281. Probably is it, is it, is it, possible that Israel out of Sonia and Alex Paheya is maybe your most anticipated UFC fight of the year

because dude, we've been talking about this one for a while. It's going to be hard to pass up up. God, Chandler and God dang, it's not crossing my mind now. Oh, Gajee, that one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Well, you got Chandler and Porre on this car, too. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. I mean, Chandler, he's just a wild man. I just love so athletic, man. I just love watching his fights, man. But, yeah, I can't engage you. Because the thing with the, for me, yeah, yeah, Izzy and Alex, that's the most anticipated fight.

But that's because I'm a fight fan. This is not going to be an exciting fight. This is not going to be a knockdown, drag out war. Now, a lot of people are going to be excited because Alex knocked him out before. So they're hoping for that again, A lot of people are going to be excited because, you know, they're both strikers. You know, there's going to be a lot of hype behind this fight. But there's no way that this is going to be an exciting fight.

Neither one of their kickboxing fights were exciting fights. This is a highly technical kickboxing match between two of the best kickboxers in history. And people like me and you that are fans of the sport and love the technical aspects. They're going to get off on this fight and love it. But, hey, I'm still a fan myself of the bloody wars. I'm still a just-lead guy in some ways, you know? And like when Chandler fights, that's what I want to see, man. So, like Chandler-Poree, Chandler-Gagie, that's what gives me voters, man.

Don't give away our whole preview show yet, Matt. We got that next week. Geez, don't get over here now. We're going to work on that. We're going to do the whole preview show. I'm going to go back and watch his kickbox matches again. I watched them before. And, you know, I don't remember Alex having as much success as people, you know, think. Because, you know, while he seemed it was the knockout and he won a decision the first time.

But I remember Izzy having, I'm going to watch it again because I don't remember exactly. I watched it a long, long time ago. You know, I've been fans of these guys for a long time. And I remember it being a pretty close match with Izzy doing a lot of really good things. Izzy had him hurt pretty bad in the second match and Alex, because Alex was wobbled really badly and then he survived and came back and got the knockout. But we'll go through all that.

We're going to get through all this. Yeah, before we get to Bilal Muhammad, though, I want to mention to him, Matt, did you see the announcement? Because I know you are, we always talk about this. You are the guy who said, you know, if I could have done anything in combat sports, if it was popular enough, you would have done Muay Thai? Because Muay Thai is like your favorite thing, right? Did you see the announcement that Bukau and Sanchai are going to be fighting

in bare knuckle? Did you see this thing? Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of comical, right? Dude, they're both like, when I saw, ever when they signed, like, when I got the announcement they signed, I was like, dude, like, talking about legends. Like, it's so crazy when I look up with their records, like, oh, he has, I, I wrote the article and I said, because Bucal has like 270 wins.

And I was like, oh, it's, you know, it's typical, you know, crazy Muay record in Thailand that looked up. Yeah, Sancha has like 380 wins. I was like, Jesus. That's insane. And that's a, that's a tough one for me to get excited about. I've got to watch it. But it's two guys that are not great boxers.

Like Boa Cal specifically has never been known for his boxing. Because it's just bare knuckle boxing, right? It's not, not, no, right? Not Muay Thai, yeah, not moitza. So these two guys that aren't really boxers, boxing, and they're friends. Like, these guys are trained together for a long time. They're good friends. They're like actual friends.

Like, are they going to try to hurt each other? Are they just going to play? You know what I don't know what they're going to do in here? Of course, we got to watch it. I'd watch anything those two guys do. But this is a very strange thing here. It is. We'll talk more about that in the coming weeks.

But right now, I do want to get to the interview with Bilal Muhammad. Of course, coming off a big win over Sean Brady, incredible performance. And I think he proved a lot of doubters wrong with that one. So here is my conversation with Bilal Muhammad. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton cross-training tread plus,

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He has no longer remembered the name. He has now put some damn respect on this man's name. Bilal Muhammad, Below, welcome back. How are you? What's up my brother? I like that. I think there. I can see Bruce Buffer yelling at it out.

It sounds good. That was my tweet right after the fight. I said, put some damn respect on this man's name. Congratulations on an amazing victory. And, man, I tell you what, you put quite an exclamation point on that fight. Thank you, brother. I appreciate you. Yeah.

the whole camp we were just telling ourselves we had to go out there and like you said, get some respect, earn some respect. It was one of those fights where I think we talked before like I didn't want this fight. I wanted something bigger. I wanted something, a bigger name, something that was going to give me one step away from a title fight and they ended up giving me this one.

So I was like, all right, I have to go out there and have to show the UFC my worth. And in front of those Abadawi fans in front of that crowd, that energy, I had to get a finish. and it came all came true. I don't think the UFC, by any stretch of the imagination, was trying to set you up for a loss. I don't think that at all.

But obviously, you know, going from Vicente Lucke, a guy who was, you know, ranked, I think, one ahead of you, and then going to a guy who was ranked several spots behind you, undefeated, had a little bit of hype behind him. You know, you were in a tough spot. You were in a high risk, low reward situation. And you had to go out, and you heard all week, people were picking Sean Brady.

He became the favorite, betting favorite leading into the fight, A lot of crazy stuff was going on. And then you go out there and knock him out in the second round, and you really took it to him. He couldn't take you down. And then you beat him on the feet, which a lot of people said, can't below strike?

Can you go out there and strike it and do that kind of thing? Again, anyone that doubted you, they got silenced on Saturday night. Yeah, you know, exactly. I'm looking at it like hearing the people, the criticism and things like that, I'm looking at it like, man, why are these people,

had they not watched my old fight today, they'd not see my past work? Like I've sat there and struck with Randy Brown. I've sat there and struck with Diego Lima. Like I go into every fight with a game plan and I go into every fight differently. Like I'm not going to sit there and strike with Wonderboy who's 50 and O striker. I went there and I outstruck Luke and I took him down, obviously, but I still outstruck him on defeat. With this fight right here, I knew that I had the clear advantage on the feet and I knew what I was going to be able to do with him on defeat.

So I said, why would I want to even grapple with him where he's comfortable? And all of his fights he's had. It's always been that comfort level when it came to the ground. I've gone with guys like that, wrestlers like that, where whether you take them down or they take you down, they're comfortable on the ground. So they're okay there. But if you put them on their back foot against the fence,

make them uncomfortable, they're going to break. They had so many, I think the PI did a test item or something like that where they tested as CO2 level or something. And they said, oh, man, Sean Brady hit the record for the best cardio in the UFC or something like that. that people were like sending me that. I'm like, bro, that has nothing to do with anything. Where's your cardio when you're going to punch in the face?

And that's what I showed this week at. Absolutely. You know, it was also, what I also loved about the performance was you actually made adjustments on the feet because early on, Sean was getting, he had a hook. He had one hook that was landing, you know, decently in that first round. You made the adjustment. He started missing that hook, and then you started hitting him when he was throwing the hook.

I saw that adjustment you made mid-fight. That to me was one of the most brilliant aspects of this fight because the one thing he was doing kind of well early, not only did you make an adjustment on, but then you made him pay for it with your striking. Can you walk me through that? Like, was that something you were seeing because he hit you a couple times to the hook? And then you made the adjustment to make him miss the hook. And then you were countering and hitting him when he threw that. I just I loved, I loved the adjustment you made even in that first going into the second round. Yeah, I feel like I'm one of the only fighters that are very good at making adjustments in the fight, mid-fighter.

where I usually see a lot of things. I'm a guy, too, where I like to spar with different guys. And if I get hit with something, it stays in my mind, and I try to use it. And it always sticks with me if I got caught with something. Like, oh, dang, call me with this. Watch this the next time out there. Watch the second round, third round, fourth round, things like that. So, like, I've always trained like that.

I always had that mindset of being able to mentally adjust and change things up mid-fight. And I also have three of the best corners in the world that see a lot. of things. So in between rounds, my coach was telling me too, to adjust to throwing more upward in the middle too because Sean was doing a good job of blocking the outside. And when I was throwing those wide punches, he was catching me with that hook. So we switched to the upper cut a little bit. And like I said, for for him, I don't think that he's comfortable adjusting or being in the fire. So that second round when that hook wasn't landing, that's when he couldn't make an adjustment. He couldn't figure out what to do next. His coaches, his corners or something was just,

yelling stupid stuff from their corner like oh he got nothing for you he got this dude like they're yelling trash talk instead of giving them real tips and i was just like laughing in my head it was also funny because you mentioned the cardio thing um you know you're one of your biggest weapons is your conditioning is your cardio you push a pace that really and no one has been able to keep up with you you saw in the in the lukee fight you pushed him in by the late parts of the fight i mean that was a huge weapon for you in that fight i thought there was also that you pushed him to the point even in the second round where, like, you could see he was labored in his movement. He was labored when you were going around.

Like, he stopped moving forward. It was crazy. Even in the second round, like it felt like your conditioning became a weapon in that fight. Yeah, a lot of the game planning for this fight, this camp was, you know, we were mad that we couldn't get in a five-rounder. Like, even, like, Habib was like, yo, I think this would have been a perfect five-round fight because, like, we saw in the Kiesa fight that he did gas a little bit into third round. So then we were like, we have to step on the gas right away. early. He's a guy that he'll take you down in the first round and once he wins

that first round, that's when he's in his comfort zone, his comfort level. A lot of wrestlers like that too where they win the first round and then the second and third round, they'll use that to waste the time, push you on the fence and that's what Sean is comfortable doing. So the first round was all striking and I know that he may have won the first round, but he's not

comfortable striking you there. So he's not going to have the cardio to keep that pace up there. And I was like, I made him push the gas and we are like in the in between rounds like perfect round beautiful round now's our time to turn it up now is where we go now's where he's going to start breaking what i loved about the finishing sequence is again because you know at that point he's starting to look a little tired he's starting to look a little labored you probably could have taken him down and and beating him on the ground in that way but the fact that you saw an opening and you

hit him and you saw him hurt and then you went for it but it was also controlled you didn't go wild there was a moment there where he was hurt and I noticed you took a second to measure your shot. You weren't just throwing wild bombs just trying to get him out of there. But I thought that was a brilliant finishing sequence because you saw the opening, you heard him, you had him trapped against the cage,

but you were still measured. You weren't going crazy. You weren't just throwing wild haymakers just trying to get him out of there. You were just pummeling him with measured shots and I thought that was a great finishing sequence. Can you kind of walk me through that what you saw and also how you don't, like in that moment

you don't just go crazy because you know he's hurt, you know you're going to get him out of there, but you were still, you were very measured with your shots and your combinations. Yeah, it was funny because the, the refat that came in the back before the fight

and he gave us, you know, our pre-fight rules, we never saw him before. I'm like, oh, crap, we got a new ref. So, like, it already stuck in my head that this guy's a, you know, a different ref. And, you know, I'm in the middle of the fight. I see him rocks. Like, I'm looking at his eyes.

His eyes are going back. And I felt like I hit him with so many unanswered shots. And I was like, oh, this rest's not going to. stop it. So I'm like, I cannot blow my load here. I have to be smart with it and pick him right at the right moments because you see it all the time where guys would just throw a bunch of punches. Then I'll look at the ref and hope that he stops it. I was like, I didn't want to do that. I wanted to make him pay for the words you were saying, the, oh, at the press conference said, oh, yeah, you never stopped anybody. You're not going to stop me, L.O. And little things

like that. I'm like, all right, well, if I get these free shots, he's not doing anything, I want to keep giving it so. It was, it was great. It was a good stoppage, too, because I think at that point, like he was still technically on his feet, but he was done. He was out. You're talked about on the feet. Sometimes the knockout on the feet is even more impressive when you hit a guy to the point where he's just, he's just done. And it was a good stoppage. Again, I actually thought a couple shots earlier could have stopped it, but again, good stop. That's what I thought. I thought, too. I was like, I was like, man, I was like, man, I feel like this ref is stopping the fight late. And then when I heard people say it was earlier, I thought I was late. Like,

I'm looking at Sean's eyes and he did not want to be there. He was, he was looking for the rest to step in earlier. But I was like, all right, I just got to keep hitting you to this rest steps in. Yeah, you know, there's some, there's some guys. it's like it almost like it breaks them in the head like you hurt them and you just don't go down but they're done like they're knocked out they're not going anywhere but they're just not physically falling over and sometimes that's more dangerous because you're just getting additional brain damage by just blasted the guy and like he was standing there and you were just hitting him and he was turned to the side which was most concerning to me because you're just hitting him

into head and his heads turned to the side and I'm like he's clearly not defending himself at this point like he's just turning away and getting punched yeah exactly I was looking at it I was like in my head, I'm like, bro, what is this rough thinking? But, you know, luckily he finally stepped in before the clock while I rang. Yeah. At the end of the day below, and I say this is a compliment, like, you know, you go out there and you have no problem trash talking with an opponent.

You have no problem going back at someone coming at you. But ultimately, you're an athlete, you're a fighter, you're a mixed martial artist, you're not out there to hurt anybody. But did it feel good, you know, to get that kind of a win? Because Sean had been talking. He had. He talked trash before the fight. he was saying you're running from him, you were ducking him, you didn't want this fight,

all these kind of crazy things, trying to get you to take the fight, all this kind of things he was saying. You mentioned the pressors kind of saying things about you. Like, I know you don't go out there trying to hurt your opponent. You're not going out there to, like, you know, maim anybody crazy like that, but did it feel satisfying to get a win like that over that guy, considering what he had said kind of leading into it? Yeah, it was very satisfying, especially because, you know,

we have, like, mutual friends, me and Paul Felder, him and Paul Felder. And I got met him a couple of times beforehand. When I first met him, it was like his second fight in the UFC or something. And he was very nice. Oh, hey, I'm trying with Paul. What's up, bro, nice to meet you,

like all this cool stuff. And then he ended up winning that fight. And then he called me out on the mic after. And I was looking at it. Like, bro, this guy was just nice to me when I met him in person, but he followed me out. But I'm like, all right, whatever. And then we did have that fight scheduled.

And he pulled out. And I didn't even know why he pulled out of that fight for whatever injury. And then that's why when he started saying this one, like, you're running, you're doing this. And I'm like, bro, you pulled out of the first fight. And I had so many of his people in my DMs from like Philly and all with the last name, Brady, saying take the fight, you're scared, you're coward and all this stuff. And I was like, this is hilarious. Like, I just fought a guy that knocked me out before in Lucke. And but I'm afraid of fighting you.

Why? But yeah, like, it was definitely satisfied just the way I won that fight and approved a lot of doubters wrong, haters, wrong, you know, the troll world is, I think, turning over to become fans now. So that's always fun when you switch your haters to fans. But, yeah, I think that the biggest thing for me is just, like, showing the world what I know I can do anyway. Like, I knew what I was capable of love. And I always just listened to these people telling me, like, oh, he's not good enough. He doesn't have this.

He doesn't have any striking at all. And I was just sitting there listening to it with a dumb look eye face. but now I feel like I woke up a lot of people and a lot of people are going to start respecting me now. Yeah, I think that was the biggest takeaway, right? Because there was some talk about Sean Brady. Maybe he was going to be the next thing, the next big thing, the next guy.

And I said before the fight, I said, you know, I don't think people, I said this to you. I said, I don't think people will give him enough respect because he came in and looked really good. And I said, you know, he actually had better wins than Hamzod did before Hamzod fought Gilbert Burns, you know, he had better wins on his record. And I said, it's kind of crazy.

People don't want to give Sean the credit. he deserves, but you go out there and knock the guy out. I think you did turn a lot of people around because, again, you had your doubters. You have your haters blow, and you're always going to have them. You could go out there and knock out Leon Edwards in eight seconds. People are still going to find some reason to hate on you, but I think you did turn a lot of people around in that fight. Maybe you felt it afterwards. And again, you get your victory lap right now, right? Like, this is the time to kind of prove the doubters wrong. The people who didn't pick you, the people who said you were going to lose, the people who said you weren't the real deal.

You get to, you know, kind of shake your brush off your shoulder a little bit. And as I said, put some damn respect on your name. Yeah, you know, I had a 14-hour flight home. So I was like just going back. I like to go back and like listen to old podcast and like just look at, listen to guys' picks and who they thought was going to win and why they were going to win

and just looking at old comments under your way in pictures because you're going to have those people under there. Oh, you're going to get knocked out tomorrow. There's no way. And it's just like, I was just like, read those with my brother. We're out of playing.

We're just like laughing at all of them. And I was like, I'm going to respond to this person. You know what? I'm not even going to give a lot. attention and not even get no energy. You know, like this whole five weeks was like a blessing. And like I just wanted to enjoy that journey and just be appreciative of it. And not give the energy to these people that, like you said, they're going to hate

on you no matter what. Like Al Jermay Sterling beat Dillishaw, but he's still getting hated on for some reason. Like it's his fault that Dillischoff went and they're injured. And like I said, no matter what you do, people are going to just look for a way to tear you down and I've done giving energy to it. Absolutely. Well, just, I listen. I'm just going to say I pat myself on the back.

You can go back and listen to my preview show with Anthony Smith. We both picked you to win. I'm just saying, like just, you know, just put it out there. Me and Anthony, both picked you to win. Let me ask you, this camp, you mentioned after the fight and it was in your corner, of course, Habib Naramagamatov was in your corner. And I know you praised him a lot afterwards. Now, to be clear, you do have a great other team around you, of course, working in

Chicago, the guys you work around. So I don't want to take the credit away from them. But you did mention working with Habib. Can you tell me what ultimately was the biggest addition having him there and working with him? And will you work with him again going forward? Oh, sorry. Yeah. Bro, it was it was another level working with those guys that are there.

Being able to train with the team, learn from who I consider the goal of all fighting, and to be training side by side with who I think is the best fighter in the UFC right now in Islam. and, you know, we're sparring, we're training, we're eating together, we're praying next to each other, we're driving in the same car together, so you get more of a personal side from all these guys. And their whole team is just a different level. Like when I first got there, it was just going with guys that, you know, a lot of people don't even know their names, not in the UFC, and I'm getting taken down, Islam is tapping me out, and I'm telling myself, like, bro, is just going to hurt me, hurt my confidence mentally to the point where it's like,

dang, if these guys are killing me like this, like what kind of confidence am I going to go to in a fight? But it just leveled me up to a whole different level because I was like, the way they trained so hard, there's nothing special about it. Like everybody's like, oh man,

is there something different these guys are doing? It's just hard work. Like Habib, as a coach, pushing you to different levels. Like, our favorite day was when he'll be like, okay, rest.

Like me and a slam, but look at each other. We'll give each other a fist pound. like we'll just smile and yeah because it was like we're just so happy that he would say that because we'll sit we'll spar and it'll go straight into grappling and then he'll put me in a bad position in the cage and then you used to have to burn out with either jumping squats push-ups it was just nuts and I never worked as hard but it just changed me mentally to a point of I know there's nothing that Sean could do to me that these guys already didn't do to me

And like I said, Islam of a lot of people don't know how good he really is. You hear it all the time that, oh, he's going to be the greatest ever. Habib says that he's better than him. And, you know, people are just saying, oh, they're just blowing hot smoke. But no, dude is really good. He's literally the best guy I've ever trained with. His striking is another level. His ground game is another level.

And his humbleness is a different level, too, because he's sitting there teaching me, and his fights, it's still the biggest fight of his career next week. And he's like, hey, do this like this and show me how he got me down. It's like, bro, like, why are you get, you don't have to do that right now. You, you know, go rest because you, you had the biggest fight of your career coming up. But he showed me a whole bunch of different things. I learned so much from all of them. And I'm just blessed to be able to do that.

And you, like I said, growing, not really growing up because we were the same age, but like coming up in this fight game, he was a guy that I've looked up to. So now it's like gone around full circle that we're trained. in the next to him and he's in my corner and being in the locker room with him just seeing their calmness in the locker room because like you there's always that stress of what's going to happen or like I don't want to lose I don't want to lose I don't want to lose I don't want to lose but religiously and with them like you see it's God's plan no matter what like win or lose it was for God had the reason for it so they just like cemented it in your brain so like we put

the work in all the work is already put in like we didn't cut any corners with anything So now it's like, whatever God has a store for, God has the store for us. And that's the sense of confidence that they all brought to that locker room. And there was no anxiety or anything back there. It was just cool. Like, we were back there laughing, smiling, even when I'm walking out, he's telling me, like, these people are all here for you. Go out there and put on a show for your people.

That's what this crowd is here for you, no one else. And it was just, it was surreal. So will you, will you work with them again going forward? Yeah, definitely. We're actually planning on going, taking a trip to Dagestan in March with the whole squad. Like, he welcomed my boy Jared Gordon down with open arms. Like they let him trade with the team. Mike Bailey was down there for two weeks.

And, you know, Lewis Taylor was down there five weeks of me. But yeah, they were like, yeah, anytime you want to come down, we got you, we'll take care of everything. So, yeah, we're going to try to get a whole team down there in Dagestan in March. And I know you have, as I mentioned, a great team around you, Lewis Taylor, Mike Valley. I saw them in your corner as well. You got the good luck charm now, though. You know, you've got to have Kabib in the corner going into the title fight and everything, right? Like, you've got to have him there.

Oh, yeah, I have to, man. Like people are always, oh, even Sean, oh, what is Kabib going to do with the corner, blah, blah, blah, like his vision, the stuff that he sees, he's the goal for a reason. Like, I tell people, like, there's people that can coach and not fight and can fight and can fight and not coach, but he can do it all. And I think that he's eventually going to be one of the best coaches to ever do it. because he sees everything. And like his game planning, like he'll watch tape on Sean Brady. It wasn't like he would just win it or I'll be there fight night.

Like he was sending me messages of, hey, I saw Sean. He does this. He likes to do this with this. And like he actually looked out, look for things that we could use in the fight. It wasn't just, oh, yeah, I'll corner you, brother, whatever.

And I'll just show fight night and, you know, make an appearance. Like, he really cared about it. And it was an honor that, and it was a blessing that he actually took a series. Yeah, he's a brilliant guy. I don't think people give him enough credit. Like, he's a brilliant guy.

Like, I've heard stories about this for a long time. Like, even when he was fighting, I heard stories coming out of, like, how he would, like, teach guys and train guys. And it's, it's hard to say this, but maybe it's true that maybe he'll even be a better coach and he was a fighter. Yeah, I think so, man. He wants greatness out of all of his guys. Like, people will look at him and be like, oh, man, he looks mad or mean or anything like that. But it's not that. It's he wants greatness out of you.

Like, he's already achieved greatness. He's already achieved everything. And he doesn't need to be in that room with us and giving us his knowledge and his time. But he is because, you know, all of his, all of his guys, teammates, Islam, they all helped him reach his goals. And he wants to pay it forward and helping all of us reach our goals. And that's what I love about him most is that is humbleness and, you know, just his sense of gratitude that he has for everybody. Like there's no, oh, I got out of time today. Like when he goes to a meeting greet or something like that, he takes us all.

If he got invited to a whole bunch of dinners out there, he'll take his whole team. Yeah, you have to serve my whole team. Like he wanted all of us around there. And that was like the cool part about it. And it's not like it changed them at all. Like he had to do this, this and this, but it'll still be at practice the next day. Rolling with us, teaching us, showing us. And like at the end of your practice, he's like, you look bad.

You need to do this, this and this. Like he's calling you out of front of everybody. And that like leveled us all up because he's telling him. Yo, you did this as sparring. Why did you do this and sparring? You should have did it this way, this way. It's telling me that, all right, well, I got to do that too. And you take what's useful, you throw away what's not.

So it's like, if he's telling this guy this, that means he probably saw that and other guys, too. So it was cool that he would call people out like that. Because if you hear him call somebody out, it's not because he wants to embarrass him or anything like that. He wants it to get better. Like, I'd rather get tapped out at practice so I don't get tapped out in a fight. And that's what I tell people all the time. Like, if you're in a room where you're the best guy in the room, you're in the wrong room. Absolutely.

Absolutely. To that point, Below, you know, whenever you get a big win, we always got to talk about what's next. And where you're at right now, I saw the new UFC rankings come out. Your number four, you know, at this point, now, let me be clear about this because, again, you took a risk fighting Sean Brady. Now, in your head, you may say, like, it's not a risk because you were confident you're going to win. But it's still a risk because he's behind you in the rankings. You don't get as much from a win, you know, over a guy like. like that as you would have maybe fighting a Hamzat or Colby.

So now you're in a position where you only have a couple of guys in front of you. Now it looks like all signs are pointing towards Leon and Usman doing it again in March, which by the way I want to say last time we spoke, I know you remembered this. You called it. You said, I bet you they're going to push for Leon and Mazvedal. And they were going back and forth on Twitter. It's like, oh, my God, it's happening.

Bilal called it. But it looks like it's going to be Usman and Edwards, you know, three. It looks like it's going to happen hopefully in March, maybe in the UK. I know Ali has said that's what they want. I know Leon is, you know, continued to say, I think that's what's going to happen. So that leaves Hamzot and Colby. Now, I know they've talked about Hamzot and Colby in March,

but you and I both know, we haven't heard from Colby. Colby's been dead silent since the whole Mazzwithal thing. He has brain damage apparently, so maybe there's some going on there. I don't know. Listen, I get it. The Colby fight and Hamzot, I know that's what Dana said. But let's be honest, we don't know where Colby's at. Colby hasn't said a word.

He's got this legal thing going on. I don't know if we could depend on Colby doing that. You and Hamzat's the fight. I said I did the article before the fight. You called out Hamzot multiple times they gave you Sean Brady. You called out Hamzai before. They gave you Vicente Lucke. You and Hamzat seems like the fight to make.

It seems like the only fight to make. And that's just because of where we're at. But you tell me, am I wrong? Is that the fight like is March? It's got to be you at Hamzaa. But is there anything else? What's going on? Yeah, I think that's literally the only fight to make.

For me, it's either Leon or Hanza. And I think that us two make the most sense. I know they're talking about Kobe, but I don't think Kobe's going to take that fight. Kobe hasn't taken a hard fight or a guy, a fight that a guy's coming off a win since Camaro. Camaro is the only guy that he's fought in his last eight fights that wasn't on a two-fight losing streak.

Kobe, he gets the credit for me and the guy that would be the champion if Camaro wasn't there, yada, yada, yada, but who's he beat? be in Mazelon, a three-fighted losing streak, Woodley on a five-fight losing streak, other than that, it's been nothing but lightweight. So why is this guy getting all this credit in the world?

When I'm the guy that's beating ranked guys, I beat Lucke on a seven-fight winning streak. I was just beat Wonderboy, who was three and one out of his last four. I just beat this kid who's 15-0. And I've just fought. I beat four top-10 guys in the last year. The only other guy that's beating top-10 guys in the last year is Kumar Usma.

Nobody else is beating multiple. those hot-hand guys. Even Hempzat's only win against a ranked guy is Gilbert Burns. And that was a close split decision. And he came in nine pounds overweight his last one. So for me, I think I'm right underneath Camaro and should be number two in a division and ranking wise. So the fact that they still have Kobe up there doesn't make any sense. But yeah, I think if they're having that fight in London with Leon and Camaro, I want to be on that card. I think me and Hamsat make the most sense and there's nobody else for me. Like I said it before this with this fight.

I was like, I know if I beat Brady, I'm still going to have to fight one more. If I fight somebody else, I'm still going to, how is that still going to be in front of me? They're still going to give him that just because his following and his, uh, his aura about him. So just let me skip all that. Let me go straight to him. What else do I have to do to earn this big fight? What else do I have to do to earn this never want a contender fight?

I fought everybody that they put in front of me. I beat everybody to put in front of me. I went backwards fighting him. I finished them on the biggest card of the year. There's nothing else. Is there an argument? And I know the answer, but I'm saying like,

is there an argument to be made that ultimately you are a harder fight for Hamzot than Colby? You know, because you're not, because Colby, no, listen, Colby can,

you know, Colby is, you know, says all the crazy stuff and does all the stupid things. But he's not, you know, he's not a terrible fighter. He's got good wrestling. He's got good conditioning.

He's shown that, you know, but you're right. You know, you're absolutely right. He hasn't fought the, the upper echelon of this division and his biggest claim to fame is he, you know, he took Camaro into deeper waters before he got knocked out the first time and then got beat

the second time. But you're right. I mean, outside of that, he doesn't have those kind of fights. But now, he does have legit wrestling. He was a Division I, you know, All-American, you know, at Oregon State. And, you know, he does have good cardio. He has used that as a weapon in the past. But do you feel like ultimately you are the harder matchup for Hamzlott as well.

Yeah, I definitely do think I'm the harder matchup for him. I think that my striking is way better than Kobe's. and I'm comfortable being in that fire where, you know, we saw on the last fight with Hamzat, when he fought with Gilbert Burns. When he was in that fire, he got emotional and he started going against the game plan. He got tired. Kobe's not comfortable being in that fire. Kobe's not comfortable.

All right, if I can't take you down and I have to strike with you, he's not comfortable there. Yeah, he had those wars with Camaro, but that was before Camaro really started being comfortable, striking and standing up. and I think that I just bring a different level of striking, a different level of IQ to the game than all these guys. And for me to fight a guy like Hansa, I study tape more than anybody in a game. I already know what I would do for a fight like that

and what I would bring to the table for a fight like that. So I already know what I need to do. So if I do get that fight, I've already been ready for that fight. I already wanted that fight so much. And I do think I'm the hardest matchup in the division for anybody. Yeah. And listen, you know, at some point, like I said, I get to Colby, you know, I get to Colby, you know, who he is and everything. But at some point, we have to move on, right?

Like, he didn't seem interested in fighting Homzot when they were going to book it before. We haven't heard from him. He said nothing. I mean, he said, no, he's made no, he's made no, you know, he's not discount. He's not saying, yeah, give it to me. I want that guy. He hasn't said anything. He's been silent since the old Mazvedal thing in March.

We got to move on at some point, right? Like, we got to move on from the guy. Yeah, exactly. He hasn't fought how long. I mean, why are you guys trying to push that one so hard? Because Kobe's going to say stupid things at a press conference because he's going to drive them. I think that people would definitely want to see me in Hubbard.

I think that's still going to get the same amount of high, same amount of views. And it's a more meaningful fight for the division, I feel like then the Kobe fight. Yeah, Kobe's going to say some outlandish stuff. He's going to get some clickbait out of it. But I don't think he's this paper view draw that Conner is or Madadol is.

He's not that guy. so there's nothing to gain for really pushing that Kobe fight and hans that are the only ones the division of winning right now we're the only ones that are active right now and I think we should be the ones that should be in a cage. Is there any worry about a homestown fight though because of the weight thing because of what happened with this last one? I know you said after the fight, I'll fight him at 179,

but ultimately you're a welterweight. You want the welterweight title. Is there any concern with that? Because again, when Dana said afterwards, like maybe he should go to middleweight, I kind of agreed with him because I'm like, dude, the guy, and I think even in the Gilbert Burns fight, now he went out there and had a great fight, but the Gilbert Burns fight,

like there's a little controversy with his way in, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, a little bit of that. So, like, is there any concern fighting this guy that he might come in at 175 or even 172? Every little bit of weight you have over is an advantage. It's a grueling part of the weight cut you didn't go through that he gives, that he didn't go through that you do.

So is there any concern about fighting a homzot and dealing with that? I think it more so, I think that his big weight problem the last one was more he just didn't respect nade dyes enough i don't think that he went in there with the mind that i'm a walk through nadea's and you know once you get to that point of superstardum and you know cockiness to the like i don't have to run that extra mile today for an adia so i don't have to do that extra cardio ride that bike died as much taking it as serious because well i mean we don't have that was a terrible matcher for nadea like we don't have to lie about it

uh and it was a great matcher for haves that so It was more so if I'm having said, let me make it to fight night healthy. And so I think that he wouldn't come in there with that mindset when he's fighting a guy like me because the next one would be for the title. So you'd have to take it more serious. And I think that he would probably make weight, especially embarrassing yourself that much, the last fight. If you come again, missing away by that much,

then like you look terrible as a fighter and as a professional. Yeah. And also, you know, you talk about the Colby thing, you know him talking trash and him saying crazy things. But low-key, you're becoming one of the best trash talkers on the roster. I said this before. Your Twitter game is real strong. You cracked me up today with your tweet about this Sean O'Malley, the Connor thing.

I was crazy with Connor. Connor he tweeted with a laugh. I don't know if you saw that. He responded with a laugh. I thought it was hilarious. Like you are kind of low-key becoming one of the better trash talkers. You threw Philly under the bus during the press conference the other day, which I found really funny. And then you go out there and then you have some, like I said, you may not, you're not going to go out

and say outlandish things just to get a headline and saying stupid stuff like Colby, but you are kind of low-key becoming one of the best trash talkers in this division. Yeah, you know, I like locker room trash talk, like that, where it's funnier, where I don't have to talk about your mom or your family or it's like that. Like, I feel like I'm the most witty guy in a division. So like if I do get a fight like a kind of McGregor, where we are going back and forth, it would be fun. I want to have that type of fight or opponent where I can go back and forth with them.

And it's not like forced. like none of myself has ever forced. I never want to be that guy where I'm selling myself just for a buck where I get out of character. I get out of, you know, losing my self-respect. So a lot of myself is just fun. I do think, like you said, I think I'm one of the best guys at it. Yeah, absolutely.

Real quick, before I get you out of here, I know that, again, nothing is settled, nothing is done. But again, where you're at right now, you have to be one fight away from a title fight. Can I imagine at this point there's no more fighting down? It has to be fighting up. And when I say that, I mean, like, if you look at the rankings, the only guys you could fight right now are Homzad or Colby.

Now, Colby's a fight you've won or forever. And again, I'm kind of pulling him out of the equation because we just don't know what's going on with him. But Hamzot is the fight. But, like, no, and I mean this, I have the utmost respect for Gilbert. I love Gilbert Burns. Gilbert Burns is a monster. And there's other guys who are a monster. But at this point, is it about fighting up?

Like, it has to be, like, a number one contenders fight. Yeah, for sure. I do think that I earned it. Like I said, I took this fight. And I didn't have to. so I feel like the hope the UFC rewards me for it. And I'm only looking upward now. Like I'm blind to anything underneath me.

Yeah. And can I ask your opinion? Because again, you could be getting the winner. Leon Usman 2 or Eastman 3, I guess it would technically be. We don't know for sure it's going to happen, but it seems like it's going to happen. Can I ask your opinion on that one, who you see coming out on top? Yeah. I mean, I do think the way the first fight or the second fight was going,

I thought that Usman had a clear path to victory. and 30 seconds he would have won. I do think that obviously Leon's going to come out here with probably a better game plan, better cardio maybe, but I just think that Ousman is a bad matchup for him. I think that anybody with that type of wrestling and pressure is a terrible matchup for Leon,

so I'm going to give it definitely to Oussman. But either way, like I said, it's a win-win, because I know Ousman's a guy you wanted to fight for the magnitude of it because Ousman was a great champion. And listen, you stopped a little unfinished business with Leon. So again, it's a win-win for you. Yeah, exactly. Either one of those guys, I'll take it. I wanted to be the first guy to beat Uspot, but I'll definitely be able to be happy with beating up for the title if he gets it. Yeah. Well, like I said, I'm pushing for it. You and Hamzot in March, that's what needs to be. I don't know what your timeline is for fighting again, but if they want to do March, I assume that would be okay with you.

Maybe get on the same card as Uzman and Edwards 3. I think that would be the make most sense put you in. And also, can I say whether it's main event, co-main event, if I want to fight, rounds it's got to be five rounds right you and homzot's got to be five rounds like they've done it for other fights that are non-title fights you got to do a not you got to do a five round fight with homzog yeah it has to be i feel like uh with the magnitude of it the number one contenders ship on the line five rounds makes the most sense absolutely well below i appreciate the time as always congratulations on another amazing win as i said remember the name is a great nickname but put some damn respect on your name is it is a secondary nickname i'm obviously i'm give you. Congratulations to get on the win, and thank you, as always for the time. I appreciate it.

Thank you, brother. Appreciate you, man. Talk to you soon. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.