MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Justin Gaethje’s Win over Dustin Poirier, Conor McGregor’s Call Out and What’s Next for Tony Ferguson

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

Following an action packed UFC 291 card on Saturday, The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin discussing the fallout from fights. In the main event, Justin Gaethje pulled off a stunning head kick knockout to finish Dustin Poirier in the second round to cement himself as the No. 1 contender in the lightweight division. With that win, Gaethje now awaits the winner of Islam Makhachev and Charles Oliviera but what about Conor McGregor’s call out afterwards? We’ll also discuss what’s next for Poirier and the chances that Saturday night could potentially serve as his final appearance. Brown also offers advice to Tony Ferguson for his future after he suffered a sixth straight loss in his fight against Bobby Green. Beyond UFC 291, we’ll also discuss the upcoming boxing match between Jake Paul and Nate Diaz and who has the edge going into that 10 round fight. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine.

Available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the Fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He's Matt Brown and Matt. I'm going to start off the show on a little somber note, on a kind of a downtrod note. I'm sorry to

do this. I've been I've been kicking off the show the last few months saying I'm still speaking to the icon, the legend of the UFC, but Derek Lewis passed your knockout record this past weekend, man. God, Derek, what are you doing, man? You're taking away my intro. Yeah, hey, good for him, man.

He did a great job, you know. But God damn it, Derek. Did you have to, and it was right? I don't know if you were following me on Twitter during the fights, but I tweeted, like literally as the fight was starting, I hope Harry to Derek doesn't get a chaos. 30 seconds later, he's got the fucking knockout. Flying, you got to get a flying knee out of the gate.

That's something you don't see every day from a heavyweight. Yeah, that's what everybody's tweeting me. They're like, dude, you got to go get the knockout record. And you have to do a flying knee. I got to take my underwear off too or my sports off and walk around my underwear. Man, you know, good for him, man. But God, yeah. I was loving my time at the top.

and now I want to go back and make a new challenge for Derek, man. A little extra motivation to go out there and get a knockout at UFC 300, you know, just throwing that out there. That's it, man, that's it. Hopefully before then. Hopefully before that. Hopefully I can pass the record at UFC 300. I like it.

I like it. So what's been going on? Obviously, we were off last week. I took a rare vacation, so we were off. But we had already made our picks and predictions for UFC 291. We'll get into that card a minute. but what's been going on in the world of Matt Brown these last couple weeks?

We were just talking about off air before we started, men, kids are getting ready to go back to school pretty soon. So here I am kind of laying the final groundwork to get them back to school. They got them in all the different sports. So get them back to school, and I will start getting ready to fight again, you know, whether it's, you know, I actually take a fight this year.

I don't know, but I'll get back to full training and pushing my. myself and we'll see how we feel this year and maybe make a run for it this year and you know might take till next year who knows but we'll see yeah it's i know he said this before like you're in a you're in a good position like i always i always think about you and like joe loz on because i love joe and when i talked to joe before his last fight he's like yeah but he's like i'm in a good position i don't need to fight right now he's like if a good when it comes along i can take it, but I don't need to do this. I can, you know, I could do this. I can do that.

Like, you know, not that you don't want to fight. I know you want to fight. But like, it's like you don't have to like, you don't have to like, oh, man, I got to rush back in there and fight in October. Like, you can, you know, you can kind of pick your spots a little bit now. You've earned that right. Yeah, yeah, it's a nice thing, man, knowing that I can kind of do it when I want to do it. Um, but man, that card over the weekend had me fired the fuck up, bro. Man, it was hard to go to sleep that night. That's, yeah, to be honest. To be, That's why I don't usually stay up and watch the fights because it's not so much just staying up to a one in the morning to watch the fights. But once you stay up to one in the morning and you see a fight like that Gagey Poyer, like how do you go to sleep after that?

I mean, you're a drill is puppet. Like, you know, those guys, you know, what a fight, you know, just the whole car. And then with Crawford doing what he did, I mean, I was just buzzing, man. And I didn't fall asleep until four or five in the morning. Dude, that's why like I always worked the pay-per-views. and I always worked to like five in the morning and people are like, man, aren't you exhausted? Aren't you tired?

And I was like, honestly, I mean, don't get me wrong. If it's a bad card, yeah, I'll get a little exhausted or whatever. But like generally speaking, like when it's that, like watching Justin Gage you do what he did on Saturday night. Like, dude, I'm amped up. I'm running on adrenaline. Like, I don't, I actually have to like, when the fights are over, I have to go out and like sit down, watch a little TV and just kind of like bring myself down because I'm just so like high after the fight. So like for me, it's the opposite.

Like, I need to find a way to sleep because I'm, like, so amped up afterwards. And, like, it's just a, it's an adrenaline rush. Even just washing the fight. So, yeah, I mean, this, dude, and listen, we talked about Gaichi Porrier. You know, I told you I lean Porri, but I could easily see Gaichi winning in. You kind of said the same thing. You like, you pick Gaichi, but you're like, I hope Dustin doesn't get mad because it's a good fight. Dude, who could have seen that coming, though, to see Justin Gaichie launch a head kick to knock out Dust of Porre?

The first guy since Michael Johnson did it back in like 2016 to knock out Dustin Porreier, insane. That was absolutely insane. And then the whole thing with the exact same kick that Leon Edwards landed on Burr, Hussein. Yeah, just insane. And yeah, like you said, who could have expected that, man? Porier doesn't get knocked out that easy, right? So, man, you know, you got to get props to Gagey, bro. He threw the right kick at the right time.

and yeah, Dustin didn't see it coming. So, yeah, what a great. Just a great fight, man. I want to see them five more times. Dude, it was amazing. Let me ask, because, like, I see it as an observer, but you're a fighter. So you see things I don't see.

I fully understand that. Justin has talked a lot about the changes he's made in his game, showing more patience, you know, showing more, you know, not just going out there and having a barn burner brawl every time he steps in there to fight. Now, there were a couple of those moments in that first round, but you could see he actually did seem like he was showing patience. He wasn't just winging punches. He wasn't just stepping into combinations.

He wasn't just marching forward. Like, he was actually countering a little bit early. And Dustin was the aggressive. But I'm curious, like, as a guy who knows Justin and watches the fights, like, do you see that dramatic difference in Justin now versus Justin like three or four years ago? Because I do see it. He's still a monster. still a nasty fighter, but saw it in a physique fight where he just, he wasn't just like going in there and winging it, man.

He was really biting down and having like a real technical game plan. Did it again against Poria. I mean, I'm just super impressed by that. Yeah, I've seen it too, man. I thought it was a great strategy by Gagy. I thought it looked like Dustin was kind of picking up some steam, actually, is what it looked like to me. Like Dustin was starting to find his timing a little bit.

He was certainly the aggressor for the, you know, for as long as the first. fight lasted. He was coming forward. It seemed to me like he was starting to find his timing and was doing well. And, you know, I wouldn't say Gage, you just pulled out a miracle shot on thing, but, you know, he pulled out a very smart, very slick,

you know, a little two-strike combo that landed great, you know? I mean, yeah, I mean, it looked to me like, you know, Dustin was doing all the right things. You know, he didn't make, he wasn't making big mistakes. He didn't, it didn't seem like Justin didn't set that up some special

way or anything. I mean, he just threw the right combo at the right time. And Dustin made a small little mistake. And, you know, when you got two guys like that with that much power and that much, you know, they're throwing that much into their shots every time, you know, things like that are going to happen. And that's what I said. If we watched them five times, I bet Dustin is able to do that to Justin at some point.

And I bet, you know, some of them are wars and some of them are back and forth. And, you know, you just never know what's going to happen when you put those two together. but it certainly looked to me like Justin was looking good and probably was planning on coming on a little bit harder in the later rounds. But, you know, Dustin, I thought he was setting everything up well or moving well. You know, starting to build, you know, he was being aggressive, right?

He was starting to build a foundation for the fight. And I think both of them probably expected it to go longer. But hey, man, Justin did a great job. You got to give credit where credit's doing. you. Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious, because afterwards, you know, Dustin was very honest and said, you know, listen, like, you know, I still love it. I still have the fire. I still want to fight. But, you know, the goal was the title. I mean, he has money. You know, he made a boatload of money from those two counterfeits. He's had a long career. And he said, honestly, he's like, you know, when they offered me Benile Daryush, I just was, didn't get me excited. So I didn't take it. The gate chief fight got him excited because he's like, there's a real danger there that got him excited. But he's like, now I just don't know. No, you know, I don't know, like, I like, I'm of the mindset, dude, like, you know, I think it was a quote. I can't remember you may have said it. I can't remember who said it to me the first time.

But it was something like I want to retire from the sport. I don't want the sport to retire me. You know what I mean? Like, and that's, that's a great. Now, Dustin losing to Justin Gachie is certainly, there's no shame in that Dustin, you know, Justin Gachie is a monster. But I also understand Dustin's point of view where he's saying, like, I don't want to fight just to fight. Like, I don't want to, you know, I want to just get offered any fight. Like, if they offered him, Hafiel Faziv, like, Raphael Fiziv, like, I don't know that's real, like, is it a dangerous fight?

Yes, is it a good fight? Sure. But is Dustin going to be like, oh, man, I can't wait to fight Raphael Faziv. You know what I mean? Like, is that good, you know, so I don't know, like, Dustin's in a weird spot now because there's only really a couple options out there for him. You know, maybe he gets the Olaverri rematch. If Olavera loses to McAchev, that's a possibility. And I guess you could always do the Connor thing again, you know, because that's always going to be a money.

maker and you know i'm sure dusta would gladly take another eight figure payday to beat up connor for a third time but like he's in a he's in a weird spot like daniel cormier said it after the fight he's like i hope i hope this isn't the last we see at dusta porier but like honestly like i'm thinking to myself like i think there's only a couple options out there for him and and i get it like he's in a position where he doesn't need to just take any fight and i understand that but realistically like there's only a couple of like really good options out there so i I don't know. Like, maybe we have seen him for the last time.

Well, that's an interesting thing about this sport, right? We could say that after so many fights, but there's always another fight, right? Like, things change in the division overnight all the time. And some things are going to come up and we're going to want to see him fight again. I think he's going to want to fight again. He's still too young or still too much money to be made. And to be honest, like, it's not out of the question for him to still get another title shot, right? Like, that's not like a far-reaching thing for him.

Like, he still has a good track record. You know, he lost to Justin Gagey. You know, it's like, you know, he goes out there and wins a couple, puts together another couple wins, and he's still a big name. I don't think we've seen the last time by any means. Well, I also think that you mentioned that, like, you know, we get lost in the moment sometimes. We're prisoners of the moment in this sport a lot of times.

But, like, when Charles Olivera got steamroll. by Islam Makachev, who would have imagined one fight later he would have got the rematch, right? Like, that fight wasn't close. Like, it wasn't. He got beat and then submitted. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't out a close fight. Comes out, beats Binaldaryush super impressively, and we don't forget about that first

fight, but he's already in the rematch. Dustin losing to Gagee, like, okay, yes, it's a bad, it's a tough loss, sucks getting knocked out. But if he ends up, let's just say he fights Olavera, let's say Olavera loses to McCachiev again and they rematch Olaver and Porre. Porre beats Olaver this time. He can easily just get right back into a title shot. Like one fight and he's back in a title shot. So like I think that's very realistic. He just may have to wait a little while to get that fight he wants. So yeah, so like I don't think, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Dustin wins one

fight. It's just he may have to bite his time. He may have to sit out. He may sit out the rest of the year. And listen, we're already, you know, we're already basically in August that we are in August now. So, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, he sits out for four months, waits for a couple things to play out, jumps right back in there. Again, Gachie lost to Olivera, beat Fizia, beat Porre. Now, he's getting entitled to show. When you're a guy like Dustin Pori or Justin Gachia, you're never more than one good one away from being a title fight. Right. That's exactly, and I think you said perfectly, you know, we just might not see it right way. Like the division's going to shake out

and who knows how, right? So, you know, give it a little bit of time. There's going to be opportunities out there for him. And whether he takes them or not, you know, there's going to be a personal decision, I think, more so than whether there's going to be a great fight out there for him

to take. I think that's what it's really going to come down to. You know, does he have that fire still? Does he still want to put in the work to be a champion, you know, fighting these top ten guys? Or does he you want to call it today, you know, because the fights will come up. I mean, right now we're not really seeing anything that makes a lot of sense for them.

But, you know, it always plays out differently than the way we see it. Yeah. I mean, that's just that's just a sport. Everything always plays out completely different than way we see it. Yeah, absolutely. Let me ask, I am curious because I had this question to myself kind of afterwards, because I'm a, listen, I'm a big believer in this new Justin Gachie. I think he's looked incredible and, like, he's so dangerous.

yet still showing a lot different skills than he used to. Like, I think it's just really, like, unbelievable to see the growth he's made in these last few fights. Of course, now he's the number one contender. He's most likely going to get the winner of Olavera and McAchev, and it probably won't be until next year, which, again, is fine because they're fighting at the very end of October. I'm curious, like, if you're Justin Gachie, who does he have a better chance of beating, McCachever or Olaver. Now, let's be honest, he had Olavera hurt, and, you know,

obviously had that fight with him and had him hurt and then he got caught and got finished and is what it is again credit to olivera um but i'm curious like does it is that should he become like an olivera fan now like should he be rooting for him to beat macaatchez or would you want macauchamp because obviously he's not listen mcachachachov isn't kabeb he's not i mean he's very very good but he's not kabb so it's a different fight people need to let that go like yes he's kabb's

his his friend his family member whatever but he's not kabbibeb He's making his own legacy. But if you're Justin Gachie, who does he have a better chance against? Is it McCachever or is it Olavera? Yeah, I'm not sure. I think it's going to be interesting to see how the two fight against each other, where they're at, where their heads are at, and where they're at physically. And like McAchev, for instance, you know,

I'd be interested to see in how his stand-up is improving, you know, maybe his how his take-down setups and how he's getting people to the ground, and how that works, how he does on the ground versus Olivera. You know, I think there's a lot to be seen in this fight. And I think either fight is such a crazy matchup for Gagy. I don't think he's going to be rooting one way or another, but I think that, you know, he's going to see a lot out of both those guys, you know, whoever wins.

He's going to see a lot. And, you know, that's going to be, you know, he's going to have to watch that fight, you know, which I'm sure will, right? And he's going to see what we're going to see. I think, I'll say it right now, I think Gachi's going to be a tough matchup for either of them. I mean, obviously, the Olavera one's an easier one to say that because he fought him and it was a really good fight until, you know, it ended. But I don't just give McCachia of a pass. Like, he's not just going to steamroll Gachi.

I just don't see that. Like, I think people kind of forget. Gachie was, you know, Genshi was going after Khabu pretty hard in that first round. Again, Kib turned it around and finished him in the second. But, you know, like, I don't count out Gachie for beating either of those guys. I know that we've all kind of, listen, we're all very high on Islam-Makasha for a good reason, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Justin Gachie beats him. Like, I just, I don't know.

I'm a big believer in this new Justin Gachi. And, yeah, I don't think it's crazy to think he could beat Islam. Yeah, I'm right there with you. I guess it kind of, you know, if that fight ends up happening, I think obviously he's probably going to come down to the wrestling. If he can stop his takedowns, you know, that's Islam's game plan most of the time. and that seems to be, I mean, that's what Khabi did to him, was able to finally get him down to the ground.

And, you know, he's submitted it pretty easy from there. So, yeah, I think that's really what it's going to come down to. It's going to be if they end up fighting, it's going to be a wrestling battle. And, of course, on the feet, again, that's where I'm kind of like, we need to see Islam in this fight, see how his stand-up is progressing. Because you know, the Oliver will put that to the test. Like, you know, if you can outstrike Charles Oliverer, like, you're a hell of a good striker.

you know what I mean so that's kind of where I'm out with that and I think again we're just going to have to watch and see I don't think we're going to I think that's one of them that's really hard to predict going forward and I don't think that Gagie has a lot to say about it right now I mean he's going to be I don't think he would pick one or the other I guess is more what I'm trying to say yeah did you see your boy Connor McGregor chiming in like right after the fight saying like dude I listen I love Connor and I love his opportunistic, uh, his opportunistic ways. Like he always loves to chime in after fights, but he jumped in.

He's like, I'm the real BMF. I'll slap Gajee or whatever. And he's like, you know, he basically said, fuck Chandler. I want the Gagee fight. I'm like, dude, I get it. You're Connor McGregor. You can demand, you know, far more than the average MMA fighter. But good Lord, dude.

Like, get back in the Usada pool, first off. Like, that still hasn't happened. And, uh, and you build a whole season of the ultimate fighter around fighting Michael Chandler and like dude like listen I know it's gonna I know it's harsh to say the word deserves because I always say never use the word deserves in the sport but like Connor doesn't deserve a Geish

fight like he's coming off two losses to Dust of Porreier like the Chandler fight was perfect but I don't know I had to mention it because it's so hilarious like I know he I know that's his move he loves to do that especially in the lightweight division but I'm just like dude like we have no idea when you're

if you're I know you've had the mindset he's not coming back but like if you are coming back, dude, fight Chandler. But what, what, outside of a big paycheck, which I get, that's, that's real. Like, what does, why would Gaichy fight you? Like, what was, what does that, you know, like, yeah, maybe he gets a payday. And I think Gaichi beats, Dustin. I think Gachy beats Connor.

Like, I don't think that's a good, you know what I mean? Like, so I, I just laughed watching that. I'm like, dude, like, come on. Like, I don't want to compare him to Dylan Danis because obviously he's done a lot more than Dylan Danis has, but like, that's the Dylan Danis move. like calling out people and like it's never going to happen like stop yeah stop and i like like how gauge you responded to it too he's like i don't really care about connor de granger i want the title right so he said the right thing i mean that's you you call it spot on you know

connor likes being in the spotlight he likes his name being put out there we're talking about it right now that's what connor does he gets out in the spotlight and that's why you know we've we've been a lot of people talking negative things about him lately right because that's That's what he's doing. He's going out there talking to stuff, doing the Dillon Danis style. You know, it's not going to happen. Like, get in there and fight, bro. Like this sport, you can only talk so much and you've got to back it up.

That's where Connor made his name was going in there talking all that shit, backing it up. That's why we loved him. Now he's talking the shit and sitting on a yacht doing cocaine or drinking proper 11 or whatever the fuck it is. So, yeah, no. one really cares about it. I mean, I don't think people care about it nearly as much anymore, right? Like, it's cool. You know, it gives a little something to talk about, but it's like, the impact is getting less and less all the time. Yeah. Well, I mean, I rolled my eyes at it. Like, I didn't used to roll my eyes and things like that. Like, I rolled my eyes at it because I was like,

like, what? Like, dude, if Connor comes back and starches Michael Chandler, we can revisit this conversation, right? Like, you come back and you do that. And I don't know that he will because I think Chandler's still a tough matchup for anybody. Chandler, you know, doesn't really just fade for anybody. You beat Michael Chandler. You starch Michael Chandler, dude, all 100% back you and revisit this conversation. But being out for two and a half years, still not in the Usada pool. Now you're basically saying fuck Chandler.

Like, come on, dude. And I like, you know this. Like, when I say these kind of things, people like you're a Connor hater. I'm not a car. I actually really, really like Connor. I think Connor's awesome, but, um, dude, this is fighting. Like, you have to fight. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, that's the whole point. Like, you have to, you have to fight. And sadly, he hasn't fought in two and a half years. The last two times we saw him fight, he got beat. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it sucks. He broke his leg in that one. But he was getting, he was getting handled badly by Dustin Poria.

Like, that was, that was like as one-sided as we saw him. Like, Khabib didn't even do that to him that quickly. like Dustin was just beating him up. And like, we need to go out and beat, if you beat Michael Chandler, I'll shut up and you can say whatever you want. But saying it from the sidelines and trying to go Gagey into a fight is just like, dude, and I know we're talking about it. We're giving it the attention he wants, but I'm kind of like, I didn't use to roll my eyes when Connor would say things like that.

Now I do. Yeah, I think you're speaking for everybody right now. That's kind of the common sentiment, right? we do want to see Connor fight. I want to see him fight. You want to see him fight. Everybody wants to see him fight, except himself. He's the only one that doesn't want to fight.

So, you know, you got to put up or shut up, bro. That's all that comes down to. You got to get in there and throw some fucking fist. Or those words, every time you say them, we're just going to have less and less impact, and we're going to care less and less and that's the nature of the sport. People care less about me now because I haven't been active this year, right? like I have my fight.

Everybody's on your nuts when you fight. After, like, people care less and less, you know. So that's just what it is, man. And, you know, even with Conner's brash personality, all the funny things he says, I mean, if he had a podcast or something, everybody would listen to it, of course. And, you know, he's a great personality. He got all that.

But this sport is brutal, man. People, they, there's too many guys out there fighting right now that everybody's watching. and everybody's loving. You gotta get in there and fight. That's what people want to see. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what?

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See app for details. Absolutely, absolutely. At the co-main event, we saw Alex Pereira make a successful debut, Ad Light Heavyweight, got a razor-close winner for Jan Blahovich. And, you know, listen, I don't think anyone's going to write home and say that was an amazing fight because it really wasn't. But, you know, at altitude and everything. And I thought, by the way, I thought Alex won.

I had a 29, 28, Alex. Did you score it the same way? No, I had a 2928, Yon. Oh, you gave it to Yon? Yeah, I don't think it's a robbery either way. Just, but I do think that last round, I felt that Yon looked terrible, but he was doing just as good as Alex. Like, it was pretty even.

Like, neither one in the third round landed anything significant. And then Yon, of course, got the take down the end. I thought that sealed it for him. But what do I know? It was close. I don't, I said this after the final. I didn't really have a problem with it. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't one of those fights where I was like, man, what a robbery.

I was just like, eh, I guess like a 20. 2928 per air, I guess. And that's kind of how I scored. I was like, yeah, I guess he won. But yeah, it wasn't. I mean, let's be honest, it wasn't a great fight. Like, you know, Jan was gassed hard after that first round. And you wonder, like, if he had to been gassed hard, you know, could.

Because he, you know, he obviously credit to Alex surviving in that first round. But, dude, he was surviving. That's all he was doing. Like, he had Jan on his back. And he was just staying out of getting choked out. And, you know, after that. And then, Jan was surviving after that, right? He had his back against the fence.

You know, Pereira was very close to land and one of those big bombs that could have put him out. So, you know, that went both ways. Do you get excited about Alex Pereira and Yuri Perhoshka? Because it sure seems like that's the fight we're going to see next. Yeah, does anyone not get excited about that? Dude. Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah, that's amazing. Dude, Yuri's so crazy and Alex is so nat. Dude, did you see how big Alex was? Like, Jan Blahovic is not a small dude, and Alex looked like he was a weight class above him. Yeah, it's interesting because, like, Alex and Izzy are pretty similar in size. But I feel like, and maybe I'm just not remembering, right, but I feel like when Izzy went up, like, Yon was bigger than him. I feel like. He was.

He was. Yeah. But when Alex went up, I was like, dude, Alex is just, you know, right there with him. Yeah, I think I saw after Saturday. I think they said he weighed like 200, put like 228 pounds or something. He went up to like 228 or 230, something like that. So he packed on like 25 pounds after the way in. So like, dude, that's insane.

Like he was huge. Him and Yeri, dude, good Lord, man. That is just going to be a barn burner. Like that is entertainment personified. That's exactly. Because, yeah, Yuri, I mean, anytime he fights his entertainment personified, right? I mean, he's just a wild man. And then Alex, we know what we're getting.

there. So yeah, but I do, I do actually favor Alex in that fight, though. You know, I'm not sure if it's going to be quite the barn burner that we think it would be. I mean, Yuri's wild and he does a lot of unpredictable things, but, you know, I think, I don't, not sure if he's got anything that Alex has a scene. I mean, I'm sure, well, I'll do some things nobody's seen, including Alex, but, you know, are they going to be effective enough to slow Alex down? I'm not sure. I don't feel that way to be honest. What scares me about that viper, Yeri is Yeri gets hit.

Like, Yeri is a guy who will take one to give one, and you can't take one to give one against Alex Pera. Like, that is just, you're just setting yourself up for failure in that kind of situation, because that dude hits like a freaking hammer. Yeri, I mean, Yeri, like I said,

every fight year he's had in the UFC, he's had moments where he was kind of in danger a little bit, you know what I mean? And you get slugged, one or two times by Alex Prairie Clean, dude, your face down on the canvas wondering what the fuck just happened. Well, we'll have to see how that power carries over at 205, too.

I mean, he hit Yon a few times, and he did rock him a little bit. I think he heard him a couple of times, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't fight ending, it didn't seem like. And of course, you know, that was, we know what that fight was. You know, that's not necessarily going to be the indicator

for all of his fights going forward. But I think it would be interesting to see that power carries over. And I do think with Yuri, the one thing is we will see him get hit and we will see how that power carries over a little better. I do wonder a little bit with Alex though, like maybe he was, I'm

not making excuses for him, but I wonder if maybe he was trying to reserve himself a little bit because of the altitude you know, and fighting like, because I mean it clearly zapped yon and it zapped everybody in the last time they fought in Salt Lake City. I wonder if maybe maybe he wasn't putting as much

power behind his punches. It could have have that third round, you know what I mean, so he could still be going. I wonder maybe that, like, because there were a couple times where it looked like he didn't fully unleash. But maybe I'm just like, maybe I'm looking too much into it because you're absolutely right. Like we don't know how that's going to translate. I think it's going to translate okay, but I wonder if maybe he was like, because he,

he didn't look gas. Like he still had energy in that third round, which I was wondering. I thought it might affect him too, but he actually looked pretty good. Yeah. I think he was probably reserving more due to the take. threat more so than, you know, his gas tank looked fine. It didn't seem like any of that was bugging him at all. Even, I mean, that first round was exhausting for him.

Having someone hang on her back like that and, you know, getting back up a couple times. That was exhausting. And there certainly exhausted Yon. But it did seem like to me what the feeling that I was getting was Alex was holding back due to that tank down threat. Because, I mean, he knew that that was going to be what Yon was going to do. at some point. And once Yon had success with it once, I mean, he can only open up so much,

right? Because he knows that that's a possibility. Yeah, but you like it. You like Alex's chances against Yeri. And I'm with you. Like I love Yeri, man. Yer is a monster. But like I said, you can't play that give one to take one game with someone like Alex. But that's just a, that's just a bad game to play with a dude like that. That is true. But again, that power carrying over. not sure that it'll be enough to end the fight with Yuri. It might hurt him enough that he can end the fight, but I don't see it as being a one-punch knockout type thing. Just not seeing it now with how it plays out, but I don't see that, man.

I think he can probably hurt Yuri a lot. And we all know Yuri can survive just about anything and still come at you with the wildest double spinning elbow, impossible shit that you've ever seen. it's going to be interesting that's for sure how crazy is alice perere's he's like he's like six fights into his career and he has a chance maybe becoming a maybe becoming a double champion in his next like how insane is that like that's so crazy to me yeah yeah i mean he's and he's done great the whole time too man just the way he carries himself and the way that he goes out there and fights and he's he's done it without hardly any grappling that's the

most amazing part. Yeah. Like the guy does not have much grappling. I mean, I think Jan made that very clear. He is not a black belt. He is not a high level. He's not getting up very well. I mean, he's certainly not a bad rapper.

Like, he knows what he's doing. But, you know, to be a double champ or, you know, have your second UFC title with probably, I don't know, purple belt level of grappling, that's pretty impressive. Yeah, that is super impressive. The whole car, the whole main car, was solid, man. Kevin Holland looked great, tapped out Michael Kiesa. That was nasty.

Yeah, Tony Ferguson suffered a tough loss, man, six in a row for him. I know he talked after the fight about the eye poke and the eye poke sucked. And once again, I still believe, like, dude, referees need to start penalizing these guys for things like that because they are fight-changing moves. But, man, like, Tony, like, dude, like, Listen, I love Tony Ferguson. Tony Ferguson is a really good dude.

I like him a lot, but I just don't want to see him get, I don't, like, six or five years ago, Tony Ferguson would, and that's not, I'm not knocking Bobby Green. Like, Bobby Green's a really good fighter, but Bobby Green would not have tapped out or choked out. He didn't even tap him out. Tony went to sleep, but like, I can't see Tony getting in that position if he was still the Tony Ferguson of four or five years ago. Like, I just feel like, man, you get old.

quick in this sport, and I feel like Justin Gachie took a piece of Tony's soul when they fought a few years ago, and he's never been the same again. Six losses in a row, man. I just, like we taught, I said earlier, you want to retire from the sport, you don't want the sport to retire you,

and I rarely tell guys to retire because I think that should be a decision a fighter makes on their own, but I just don't want to see Tony take much more punishment, man. It's kind of breaking my heart to see him go through this. Yeah, and the tough thing is it just doesn't seem that there's a lot of matchups out there for him at this point, right, unless he goes pretty far down in the rankings.

But even then, I mean, you know, these up and covers, man, there's just so many killers out there, and especially in those middle divisions, man. So it's just hard to see where he goes from here, you know, and that's given somebody a big opportunity to make a name if he goes down. And, yeah, it's hard to see what we're like, I don't know where he goes, man. It's a really tough one. I said this, I said this years ago, I remember. when a good friend of mine who's now a referee in California,

still talk to him, you know, really good dude, Frank Trigg, was in Welterweight, and he had lost a couple in a row, and they released him. And it was kind of a little bit of a shocker because, you know, Frank had been a good company guy and had some great fights. And he got beat by Matt Sera, and they released him. And I said, listen, there's a financial reality where the UFC is going to, you know, they're going to show loyalty to a certain extent.

But if you're making $300,000 a fight and you're losing, like unless you're willing to take less money, Like, they're not going to pay you a lot of money to lose on the undercard of a fight night card. You know what I mean? It's like Tony's, Tony deserves to get paid a lot of money because he's put in the work and he was one of the best lightweights of the world for a long time. But, like, at some point, they're diminishing returns on that. Like, are they going to pay Tony Ferguson $300,000 to fight a contender series guy on the undercard of a fight night? You know what I mean?

Or something loyal. Obviously, Tony's a big enough name. He'll probably always be a main card guy. But you know what I mean? Like there's all these things that go into it, man. And like, I just, I don't know, man. Like, I just, I guess my biggest factors, I just don't want to see Tony take more punishment. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, dude, he was getting hit hard on the feet. His face was all bloodied up. You know, I just, dude, I just don't want to say. I say that to a lot of people, man. There's just, I don't want to see the guy deal with a seventh loss in a row to some random contender series guy just trying to get a win. Like, I don't want that for Tony Ferguson. And I'd say what, you know, it goes back to boxers preach about it all the time, man, having those fundamentals. And that's what's going to last you for a long time in your career.

Whereas like, Tony has never really had those fundamentals. You know, he won a lot of his fights with awkward techniques doing crazy things and really coming forward really, really hard, taking shots, but giving way more than he was taking. You know, he did a lot of things, you know, that weren't really meant for longevity. So, you know, I think a lot of fighters, young fighters or young athletes, you know, could take a lesson from that. Like, you know, the fundamentals is what is going to create longevity for you. And that's me has been Tony's biggest issue here. He's just, he doesn't have those fundamentals to fall back on. We kind of always thought that his grappling and ground game would be the fundamentals that he would fall back on.

But something seems to be missing there too. Yeah, he didn't, yeah, it was a weird, it was weird. like he didn't he didn't have a good night wrestling like he's a good wrestler and he couldn't take bobby green down bobby got on top of him was laying in some nasty punches and then obviously choked him out like i just like i said man there's just like there's no right or wrong time when when a person's when there's no right or wrong way for time to pass you by right like some guys are are done at 32 some guys are done at 46 like randy kator there's no right or wrong way to it um tony with six losses in a row like will the UFC bring him back for one more?

Probably maybe they go under an agreement where they say like we're going to give you one more and then like you got to be done or at least done with us. I just like it said man, it breaks my heart man because like he's like Tony Ferguson is honestly like one of the greatest what ifs in this sports history because everything that happened around that Khabib fight. You know like he tried. I think so many times and like I don't know that he would have been Khabi. I'll be honest. I wouldn't have picked him to beat Khabi. but at least he would have had the opportunity, right? And he never got that.

And now he's on six losses in a row. And I'm like, dude, it kind of breaks my heart. Because, again, I just don't want to see him go out there against some young sat. Like, we talked about it. Like, we celebrated the Robbie Lawler thing, like, when he beat Nico Price. But, like, we don't want the Ehor Petaria thing with Shogun. Like, we don't want that to be our last memory of Tony Ferguson getting wiped out by some random dude from the contender series with, like, a one and a UFC record. Like, I just don't want that.

Yeah, and you know that that's a possibility too, right? That's the biggest thing we've seen in the sport a million times. You know, like, I mean, even 20 plus fights deep in my career, I was still fighting guys that were 1-0 or debut guys and things like that. You've seen a million times that he said the Shogun fight. That's a possibility in the sport, man. When you're in the UFC, you're under the Lions then, and you're going to fight another line,

and that's all that there is to it. And which line isn't really up to? to you. So, you know, Tony, I like to see him go through a camp, you know, like a good camp. It seems like he kind of does his own thing, does all this awkward training all the time. And, you know, I would love to see him just go to a good spot, get some of those, work on some of those fundamentals again, you know, maybe try to up his game a little bit. You know, we all know he's got what he has, right?

Like, you know, he's tougher than hell. You know, he can come forward. you know, he has some crazy submissions, he's got crazy good elbows. But, you know, where's his jab? Like, where's his footwork? Where's, you know, some of the,

you know, some of those basic fundamentals. I like to see those out of them. Would you like to see Tony fight again, though? Do you think, would you like to see him get one more or do you think he should, you know, wrap a bow in the career at this point? You know what? The thing is, I didn't think he looked

that bad Saturday. He didn't look terrible. But again, I just didn't see any of the fundamentals. And when you're fighting Bobby Green, like, you better be fundamentally sound, right? Like, he's the guy that's going to pull off athleticism. I mean, if I was looking, if I was Tony Spanager and wanted to look his career and give him advice on whether he should retire or not, you know, I would look at his last six fights.

They're not coming to my memory right now. I just didn't hear talking. But in the last fight, it's with Bobby Green. It looked to me like, you know, it was a bad matchup for him to start with. and he wasn't able to adapt to him again because he didn't he doesn't have those fundamentals ingrained into his core um so like if i were advising him if he was my guy i was coaching him like i would suggest that he'd go to a good camp where he gets a maybe even like a good boxing camp i know he was working with a good boxing coach for a while but you know a good boxing is just somewhere that's where you're just going to have to use

fundamentals all the time. You know, and let's, you know, you have to know the rules to break the rules, you know, and that's where Tony seems to be failing in my humble opinion is he's out there just breaking all the rules. He's not abiding by any of the rules. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Real quick before we get out of here, Matt, you know, obviously UFC 291 was an incredible

card top to bottom. We also saw one of the most amazing boxing performances of recent memory with Terrence Crawford just absolutely beating the brakes off of Errol Spence Jr. I did not, I not to say I wouldn't have picked Darren's Crawford to win the fight. I didn't see it going that way. Like I didn't think it would be that one side of a fight. I know you're a big boxing guy. How impressed were you with Terrence Crawford on Saturday night? Unfortunately, I still haven't got to see that fight.

I plan on watching the Sunday morning. got busy. This time that we're doing this podcast was actually my first chance that I had to watch the fight, but I decided to do the podcast instead. But I've seen the highlights. I know basically what happened.

And the fact that he even did it without me even watching it, I mean, it is Uber impressive. I mean, you can't say enough good things about it. And I put up a thing on Twitter the other day. I posted, I said, you know, what was more impressive in a way or Crawford? And everybody said Crawford.

even the people that I follow that I know are legit not casual boxing fans. People that are hardcore boxing fans. And knowing what Inouye did earlier in the week, whatever Crawford did was pretty fucking amazing. And the fact that he stopped Arrow Spins, man. I mean, that's very, very impressive. I mean, Harold is a tough guy, man, and quick. And it seemed like he just shut down everything that Arrow wanted to do. again, without watching it.

So hopefully I'll get to watch that later tonight, and I'll have a better opinion next week. Speaking of high-level boxing, you know, right on par with Crawford Spence. This weekend, Jake Paul and Nate Diaz, man, that's like right there, like Spinsing, Spinsing, Crombert. Then you got Jake and Diaz right below it, man. Oh, I forgot that was this weekend.

What else is going on this weekend? Can I watch a different fight this weekend? Is everything else to watch? Corey Sanhagen is fighting is fighting Rob Font in the main event at U.C. National. That's a good one. Yeah, Fonts step in a little bit short notice, right?

But they're doing a catch weight. They're doing a catch weight. It's like 141, I think. So they're not doing, you know, they're not making him cut to 135. Okay, I don't think that's going to phase either guy too much. But, you know, boy, Fonk, I'm always impressed with that guy. So I'm really looking forward to this fight because he has those fundamentals that I was just talking about.

You talk about a jab. That's some of a bitch has a jab, like just about no one, maybe the best jab in the UFC. Him and I think he's training partner Calvin Qatar, right? This guy's just jab all day long. Like, can you imagine two of them spar and they're just jabbing each other the whole time? But yeah, and, you know, that's how you beat a guy like Sandhagen. You know, you set that foundation with that jab, man. You know, I mean, there's other ways to do it for sure, but, you know, that is a great way to do it.

So I think this bike could be a lot closer than people who give you credit for or give it credit for. Because I think most people are probably assuming San Hagan is going to dominate this. And he may very well. But I think if Fon comes out, is able to start getting that jab off and set his distance and get Sanhagen off of his out of his flow. And he could get pretty interesting. I agree with you. I think, listen, I'm not going to lie and say I'm not picking Sanhagen because I am because I'm a big believer in Corey Sandhagen. Hagen, but Rob Fawn ain't going away, man.

This could be a barn burner. Like, this could be a five-round war because Fond is super tough. He, he's looked, and he's looked really good in his last couple of fights. Like, he made some massive improvements after he lost. I think it was, he lost to Cheeto. And he came back, man, his last couple of fights, like, he's just looked real strong. The powers higher. That jab is nasty.

Yeah, this is a great fight. Great main event, too, man. The rest of the card, little lackluster, but that main event is fantastic. Yeah, now I'm with you. Like I'm going to pick San Hagen because I think San Hagan will be prepared for that job. I think it'll be prepared for Fomp very well. And I think overall, like San Hagan just has way too many weapons and way too many ways to win. So I think the smart money would be on San Hagan.

But I think Fon could make it real interested and pull out an upset, real interesting and potentially pull out an upset here. Yeah. So what do you think about Paul and Diaz? Do you have a pick in that one? because I like Nate Diaz. Let me be clear about that. I think Nate's awesome.

I love what Nate has done throughout his career. And he was always like a fun guy to wash. And dude, I'm happy he's getting paid all the, again, I know it's always like a preamble to me to basically say he's going to lose. But I just think, dude,

I think size matters. And while I think Diaz is a better fighter, like he's obviously a better fighter, he's not really a middleweight. Like they're fighting 185 pounds. like he's barely a welterway. Like he's actually a lightweight. You know what I mean?

Nate Diaz is really a lightweight. Did he find some success at welterweight in the UFC? Sure. And I understand boxing is different than MMA. I under two totally different sports. But that's like 30 pounds difference. And listen, is Jake the most skilled guy in the world? No.

Is he going to be a world champion legitimately? Probably not. But, you know, he's still not bad. He's still, you know, fundamentally not bad. And he's still got a rock for. a right hand and Nate at 37, 38, 39, I can remember how old Nate Diaz is.

Like, he's taking a lot of damage. Like, and Nate's like, pitter pat punches were with four ounce gloves. Now he's doing it with like 10 ounce gloves. I just, I don't give Nate a great chance in this fight. I love Nate. I think he's awesome,

but I don't give him a great shot to win this fight. Yeah, I'm right. I agree with everything he said. I think that I'm pretty much on the same page as everyone else. I think everybody who's watching his fight knows. Like Jake is the bigger guy. He has a good right hand. Right hand against South Paul.

That's the weapon of choice. He's probably going to land that right hand a few times. He's probably going to hurt Nate pretty bad, probably get a TKO stoppage. With that said, if he doesn't, though, if Nate's able to survive those first few rounds, like we've also seen Jake gas and that, or at least, you know, maybe not gas, gas,

but, you know, we've seen him slow down, seen him get a little bit tired. If Nate can handle those first few rounds, push through and make this a longer fight. I believe it's an eight round match. 10 rounds. 10 rounds. Okay.

Okay. Even better for Nate, right? So, you know, if he can get through those first few rounds and start to wear Jake down a little bit, I mean, we all know what Nate can do once he gets you worn down. If you slow down on him, he's going to fuck you up. And that's, I'm sure that's the game playing for both these guys, right? Like Jake's going to go out there and try to hit him and hurt him early. Nate's going to try to make this a long.

marathon 10 round match and you know but I'm with you I mean I think Jake can probably keep them off and you know probably throw big right hand tie him up a little bit wear his arms out do you know keep kind of

repeating that rinse and repeat over and over and you know it's just hard to give Nade a chance on this fight going like you say going up 30 pounds I mean it's yeah and you know Jake's probably been on steroids for a while you know I'm guessing I'm guessing they're probably not testing, you know, at least anything strange in a fight like this.

I'm not sure what the Jake Paul Promotions testing policy is, but I'm guessing it's probably not that much. And, you know, I'm not hating on that either, right? You know, I'm just saying it is an advantage that, you know, I don't hate on people taking steroids at all. Only when it's illegal, right? If it's understood by both parties, I don't think there's anything wrong with this. So with that said, the, you know, Jake's been on him for a while, and Nate has probably been on him for a short amount of time, which is just going to be another advantage to Jake Paul.

Yeah, I think this, I think it really is a story of two fights. Like, I think the first couple, three, four rounds are going to be where Jake is at his best. But you're right, he does slow down. And if Nate can survive and then start pouring out, you know, pouring out to volume. in 5, 6, 7, 8, 9-10, he has a shot. But like I said, man, size matters, power matters. And, again, Nate's taking a lot of damage throughout his career. Like, we can't ignore that.

Like, Jake is 25 or 26. Nate's, like, 38, 39 with, like, a lot of fights on his record. Like, that does count, you know what I mean, over time. But, like I said, I don't count Nate out. But listen, dude, this is, Jake Paul has to know, like, I'm not going to say it's do or die for Jake Paul, because Jake's still a star and there's going to be interest in him. But like Tommy Fury, like I was not the guy, you know, I did not really consider Tommy Fury a super legitimate opponent, but he was like an actual boxer.

It was a close fight, but Jake, in my opinion, clearly lost. This is technically kind of like a step back because he's taken on, you know, Nate Diaz, a great MMA fighter. He's never boxed. He's O and O. You know what I mean? He's O and O's a boxer. This is a step down or a step back. from Tommy Fury, Jake needs to win this fight.

Like, he can't lose to Nate Diaz. Like, he just can't. If he really wants to move forward with a legitimate boxing career and not just get just not get roped into the influencer fights forever, he has to beat Nate Diaz. He cannot lose this fight. Yeah, that's a good point, too. And so, yeah, there's a lot of pressure on him for that. Nate really doesn't have a whole lot to lose, right?

Like, he's probably not expected to win by a lot of people. He's going there for a payday. probably doesn't really care a ton. I mean, he's a competitor and wants to win in that sense. And, you know, he's a fighter, so he's going to want to win. But, you know, the stakes are way higher for Jake Paul, I think, too. So I think that's a good point. Yeah, I mean, Jake, like I said, I'm not saying it's do or die

because Jake can still have other influencer fights or whatever. But, you know, I mean, again, I'm being honest and saying that I don't know how legitimate Jake Paul will ever be. You know what I mean? I don't know how legitimate he's ever going to be. But if he wants to get Tommy Fury again, he can't lose to Nate Diaz. Like he can't like build a Tommy Fury match.

If he gets if he gets punched, you know, for 800 strikes in a row for five rounds by Nate Diaz. Like, you know, does Nate Diaz have a chance to win this fight? Yes. And Jake Paul can not afford to lose this fight. Like Nate Diaz loses. We're all kind of like, well, you know, we kind of saw it coming and Nate can go back to the UFC. Maybe he fights Connor again or maybe he fights Porre or maybe he does another boxing match against somebody else. Like, Nate, Nate is.

good. Jake is like, he has to win. Like, he cannot lose to Nate Diaz and be expected to still, you know, at whatever he'd be at that point, six and two as a pro, like, you can't lose to Nate Diaz and think you're still going to be a real deal in boxing. Maybe then he goes to PFL and fights MMA. I don't know. Yeah, that's a great point. So, but I guess you'll probably be watching. Are you covering it? I am. I'll be late covering it, but I am going to cover it. Yes, I am. Jeremy Stevens fighting Chris Avalo on the undercard. That should be interesting. Ashton Silva's fighting.

Amanda Serrano. So yeah, yeah, it is what it is, man. And I do give Jake credit, man. He's building up people around him. You know, the Ashton Silv kid is one of his guys. And obviously, Amanda Serrano putting him on the card on the undercard, getting him paid. I'm cool with that.

Like, I'm glad that Jake's bringing up people. And, you know, I do give him credit for that. I don't know if, you know, he's ever going to be the guy to get a fighter union started. That might be a touch too far, but, you know, good for him. And like I said, dude, you know, I hope it's fun. I just, I don't expect it to be a great fight. I just hope it's fun. Yeah, I guess I'll probably be with you.

I'll end up watching the fight just like all these big celebrity, whatever. You want to call him influence or fights or whatever. I end up watching it and wishing that I didn't. You hate watching. You hate watching. You're like, God, I can't believe I'm watching this, but everyone's going to be talking about it so you have to. That's exactly it.

Oh, man. We'll probably talk about that next week. Hopefully we have a great fight to talk about as well, of course, with Corey Sanhagen and Rob Fon. And so we'll talk about that, of course, next week as well. Matt, people want to check you out, whatever you got going on. Where can they find you? What else you got going on?

I'm Immortal Twitter and Instagram. At the Immortal Coffee, Twitter, and Instagram. You know where to find me. Let's get it. Love it. Matt, we will be back next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the ride. to everyone enjoy the fights this weekend. Try to get some enjoyment out of Nate Diaz and Jake Paul.

And really look forward to Corey Sanhagen and Rob Fon. We'll be back next week with another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.