MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Kayla Harrison Joining UFC, Her Upcoming Weight Cut and Jon Anik Facing Criticism from Fans

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin reacting to the latest news from the sport including Kayla Harrison joining the UFC roster and her upcoming fight against Holly Holm. The fight serves as Harrison first official trip to 135 pounds after primarily competing at 155 pounds for most of her career. Brown reacts to the arduous journey that Harrison is about to take getting to bantamweight and the trials and tribulations she may face before and after her weight cut. We'll also discuss recent comments from UFC play-by-play man Jon Anik after he confessed that he may not have much time left in the sport after interacting with some toxic criticism from fans. Brown gives his take on the situation and why he backed up Anik with a post on Twitter. Plus somehow we end up talking about Taylor Swift and the attention she's brought to the NFL after getting into a relationship with Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Betterment is full of ideas to help you reach your goals without having to babysit your investments. They help their customers invest so that they can go live their lives. Go to betterment.com to learn more. Investing involves risk, performance not guaranteed. Fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. Matt, you were away for a week.

Welcome back. How's everything in your part of the world? Well, we were just talking about it off air there for a minute. Hectic. Busy. It's all good stuff, right? Like it all, you know, sometimes you got to go through the storm to get to the light. And that's what we're working on, bro.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Never slows down, right? People think like you're not, you don't have a fightbook. You're like, oh, you got some downtime. You ain't no downtime. There's no downtime. No, I'm not a big fan of downtime, to be honest anyway.

So, you know, actually, I probably in my past, I'd say four to five years, I've trained more out of camp than I do in camp. So now, so what I try to do, and this hasn't been the case in the past five or six months, but in the past five or six years, what the way that I've operated is I train in the insanely hard out of camp so that when I do get to camp, I'll train really hard at the beginning at camp. But then when it starts becoming crunch time, I can relax and recover and actually be ready and hungry to fight. Now, it doesn't mean I don't keep on the cardio, but not taking the shots, not, you know, risking the injuries, things like that. So yeah, it's always busy around here, bro. I know. I remember talking to Michael Bisping after he had to

that Luke Rockhole fight where he won the title. And he kind of, he said it like going into it. He's like, the short notice might benefit me because I just haven't killed my body in the training camp. Because he was one of those guys, you know, he would just grind himself, you know, into a training camp. And he learned something from that. Now, that was obviously the tail end of his career. But he's like, yeah, he's like, you just tear yourself up in training. And then by the time you get to the fight, you got nothing left.

He's like, you just beat the hell out of yourself for 10 weeks. And by the end, you're like, I'm doing, you know, two sparring sessions and blah, blah, blah. and then by the fight you step in there and you're like holy shit i'm already haggard like i'm already beat up i don't know how many times i've done that to myself and and what happens is i've trained myself to be able to take any amount of punishment that you could possibly hand me but i didn't train myself to go in there and perform great you know what i mean like there's a difference like yeah you know just beating yourself down all the time it's like it's like okay i can take that but what does that mean if I can't go in there and perform?

That means I can go in there and get beat up really good. Yeah, you want to dish it out. It's not so much you want to take it, right? Yeah, yeah. It's so funny. Like when people mention that, you know, I meet someone new or something. And actually just my, I hired a new cleaner there day and she was here. And she's like, I don't know how you do that, you know, get beat up all the time.

And I was like, well, I try to beat them up. Like, I'm not me getting beat up. all every time. I always say this when I talk to guys. Like we always have, like we say guys have a granite chin. Like you have a granite chin. And like that's in a weird way.

It's a backhanded compliment because like it means you're getting hit a lot and you just can take the punch. Like, you know, that's like, you don't root for a fight of the night. Because the fight of the night means you went through hell. Like you went through a war.

Like knock out of the night. But that's true. Like I always say like it is, I mean, it is good to have a good chin. Like no one's saying it's not good to have a good chin. but if you if you prove that constantly it means you're getting hit a lot yeah yeah there's sort of the two sides of that right you got like the ganady glovkins who got a granite chin but when part you know

partially because of the granite chin and their skills and then you got like the tony fergusons you know at least as of late i mean he's a fucking legend and you know did amazing things back in the day but you know having that granite chin didn't serve him very well at all because it was all to eating shots for lunch, breakfast, and dinner. Yeah, it was kind of like BJ Penn towards the tail end of his career. Like, he was just too tough for his own good. Like, he just didn't have it to dish out anymore, but he could still take it, man. He could take it.

But that's, again, that's a double-edged sword because that just means you're getting, you know, eating 200 shots in a fight. It's not a good thing. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Exactly. Unless you're winning. Yeah. Then it's a great compliment, right? Oh, you got a granite chin and you won.

If you didn't win, that granite chin isn't such a great compliment. I always remember Roy Nelson had like the granite chin. Like he could take a punch. And then Mark Hunt cracked him that one time and just never the same. Like he actually started getting dropped it. Because it go, man, that's like I said, that's a dangerous game to play when you're relying on that to save you. Like you're relying on, I could take a punch. Eventually, someone's going to hit you hard enough and you're not going to take that punch.

Like there's a Mark Hunt out there that's going to knock your block off no matter how good of a punch you can take. You know what I mean? There's always going to be that guy that can hit you and connect with a shot and put you out. Yeah, that's a fact, yeah. And they said, didn't they say Mark Hunt has a skull that's like thicker than other people's skulls? Without Mark Hunt, they should like a stray of it. I think that might be who you're talking about.

I think so. I think you're right about that. Yeah, so he was another one. He had a concrete chin. There's another one, yeah. Yeah, it makes me wonder if you could, you know, we condition our shins by rolling them and hitting them and to build the castification of the bone.

I wonder if you do that to your skull without, Without, you know, punching. Without all the brain damage. Yeah, yeah. Just taking that bread roller and just rubbing it over your head. Yeah, that'd be interesting. Yeah, guys do condition. I've seen those videos where guys condition their legs.

You kick shit and you toughen your chins. And then like, that's kind of stupid too, though, because like you just kick the bag, bro. Yeah, I've always seen those like, Moit Thai videos where like they're doing demonstration kicking trees and shit. And I'm like, that can't be good. I don't care how tough your shins are. Kicking a tree cannot be good for you. Yeah, well, they're kicking banana trees, though. So I've never kicked a banana tree, but I've heard they're pretty soft.

Yeah, I, I'll avoid kicking trees altogether. I'll kick a bag. I can kick a bag. I have. I suck at kicking. Yeah, I have. I have. I have kicked.

But, yeah, I have kicked. I'm not much better at punching bags, but I can punch much better than I can kick. so I have a heavy bag in my garage it's a has sand in it you know not not the whole thing but there's sand you know in the bottom yeah with you know the rags and you know whatever fabrics and stuff and it's pretty tough on your shins like I think it's good enough yeah yeah you can condition it that way like I said there's a way to condition it without kicking trees and you know random shit like that but yeah I think it'd be a good idea like could you condition your head without getting brain damage like is that possible could you do something like that

That'd be an interesting scientific study to do that without, you know, the brain damage because you don't want that. Usually when I have an idea and I think it might be stupid, it's usually stupid. Oh, man. So we haven't talked for a couple weeks, obviously, with the show. Last time we talked, it was, we talked about UFC 300, Jim Miller, literally the next day that announced Jim Miller's fight with Bobby Green. So did you ever hear any updates? We were waiting on Sean Shelby to text you back. You never did.

Yeah, never heard anything. I'm not sure what's going on there. Oh, it's rough, man. I thought that was a perfect match. And then, like, the day later, they announced him fighting Bobby Green. And obviously, I understand Jim Miller. He's going to take whatever fight they throw at him. But I was a little surprised.

Like, two guys want to fight each other? You kind of made their job easy for him. Yeah, that's what I thought. And I understand where Jim is coming from on that, right? Like Bobby Green, if I remember right, he's ranked or he's at least very close to being ranked in top 15. And, you know, so it makes sense for Jim Miller. And I think we both know Jim Miller's not the type to be. pick it and choose in turn down fights anyway you know they throw a name i'm sure he just says yes so

um but it's you know it works you know good for him you know yeah for jim mill like that makes sense for him and he's a lightweight i mean let's be honest he is a lightweight like you know and i know you mentioned that like there if there was a downside of fighting jim millers people are going to say what you're fighting a guy coming up and wait and things like that and he's you know bobby green is actually a lightweight so i get it like and i i know i know enough talking times i've known jim long enough to So when the UFC comes calling, he doesn't say, well, let me fight this guy, not that guy. Like, you know, they had a spot for him on 300 and they got it. And then they announced a bunch of other fights.

Still waiting on the main event. I know we talked about this briefly around UFC 297 because they had the bansomway, the bantamway fight. And we kind of talked about, like, how bad the women's bantamway division has gotten. And, like, it has. But the one shining light that I mentioned on that show, if you remember, Matt, I said, the real star that could come in is Kayla Harrison, but they don't have her weight class.

Well, shit on me. I'm wrong because Kayla Harrison is signed. She's fighting Holly Holm and she's doing an bantam weight. Now, her fighting advanced weight, that's all the question. She rests, did you know in the Olympics like 178 pounds? And she fought primarily at 155 pounds. Now, she has fought at 145. Now, if there's one thing I've learned from my knowing Kayla Harrison as long as I haven't,

Just to be clear, like I adore Kayla Harrison, like one of my favorite people in this sport. Just one of the nicest, coolest people I've ever met in this sport. If there's one thing I've learned about Kayla Harrison, it's not to doubt Kayla Harrison. I think she'll get down to 135. I think she absolutely will. She has the right people around her. She has the money to invest in nutritionists and all that kind of stuff. But the question is, is it good for her to fight at 135?

And that's the real question. Yeah, she's not fighting those slouts either. I mean, she's fighting Holly home and coming in on the first fight in the UFC, which, especially on 300, I mean, that's a different experience than what she's experienced before. And I know she's been in big shows. I know she's been in the spotlight and she has all the confidence and all that. But UFC is different and UFC 300 is even more different. So that's a lot of pressure to put on her. Like you said, she's not someone that any of us are going to doubt because she's that person, right?

She is that girl that, you know, if she's going to come, if someone, if you're going to count on one girl to come through, it's Kayla Harrison. So, but she has a tall, tall order in front of her, fighting Holly home for debut UFC fight on UFC 300. It's a tall order. And the UFC, let's be honest, this is smart matchmaking because I, just for, you know, transparency sake, an interview with Holly Holm earlier today, and we were talking about, and I said, do you think there's any, like, correlation that you were the one that beat Rhonda Rousey, who was an Olympic bronze medalist in judo, and now you're fighting the two-time Olympic gold medalist in judo? Because Rhonda couldn't do anything to Holly?

Now, do I think that Kayla Harrison has better a foundation that she doesn't just rely on judo takedowns? And, you know, I think they're different fighters, obviously. Rhonda and Kayla are different fighters. But their backgrounds are the same, the judo. does the same. And, you know, you know, Holly's like, yeah, you know, I can see it, but, you know, they're similar in some ways, but they're still vastly different others. But I do think that's at least a little bit of the reason they made it, because Holly stuffed Ronda's takedowns every single car. Holly couldn't get near Holly home. And Kayla is, I mean, Kayla makes no secret about it.

She likes taking people down. And now she has elbows. She didn't have elbows in PFL, which, Dear God, that's terrifying. Kayla Harris with elbows. But Holly Holmes got great takedown defense, and she thumped Ronda badly. So, again, they're not, listen, Michael Vennam Page came in, he got Kevin Holland.

That's not an easy fight. And I think, I like Michael Vindon Page, but I think Michael Vennon Page fought a lot of cans in his career, but he's still a very talented guy. They didn't put him in there with some bum that he's going to beat, you know what I mean? Kayla Harrison's getting Holly Holmes,

on day one. They're not doing them any favors. They're not saying you're coming in making a paycheck and we want you to get wins. They're giving tough fights. So, you know, Michael Vittam Page and Kayla Harrison, we're going to find out pretty quickly how good they really are. Yeah. Yeah, that's the way it should be, you know, like figure out, you know,

they're not, I mean, they're paying for those people too, right? Like they're not getting them on you know, 10 and 10 contracts, right? They're not going to give them debut fights, right? If they're not paying for debut fighters. So, you know, I think it's fair game.

And like I said, I think it's a tall order for Kayla Harrison, especially with the weight cut. You know, she claims that she's done these test weight cuts, but that's very different than, you know, dealing with the adrenaline and, you know, the intensity of going into a UFC fight, nonetheless, UFC 300. It's just a lot of things, you know, for her.

And like you said, if there's someone that could do it, it's Kayla Harrison. But I think it's a pretty tall order for it. a task of her. It is. And also you got to remember, like, you know, she's been under the pressure, the spotlight. You don't become a two-time gold medalist in the Olympics without understanding what it's like to endure pressure. But, you know, and the test weight cut, like, that sounds good, right? Like, she made the weight. That's good. But making the weight and fighting 24 hours later and being, you know, as close to 100% as possible, that's different. You made the weight. How did you do the

next day? Like, were you the same? Did you rehydrate? and look as nasty and as good as you ever were before? Because I've seen a lot of guys, and I've been around a lot of guys cutting weight. Now, I'll admit, I'll admit as a guy, I haven't been in a lot of saunas with women when they're cutting weight. But I've been around a lot of guys, like, in the last, like, hours of their weight cut. And I've seen how bad it can go. Like, they'll make weight. Like, I'll never forget one of my, I don't think I'm betraying any confidence telling the story.

When Charles McCarthy fought Michael Bisping in Montreal. I was around, I knew Charles a little bit, but I knew the guys from American Top Team. And after the way ends, everyone went out to dinner at this restaurant in Montreal, a big huge, like, table dinner, you know, a big banquet kind of dinner. And they invited us to come along. So we sat down. I was sitting with Charles McCarthy, and I think it was his then girlfriend. I don't know if it ended up becoming his wife or not.

But he was just miserable. Like, he couldn't eat. Like, he was just so sick from the weight cut. Like, he was trying to eat pasta. He just couldn't keep anything down. He was sick. And then the next day, I mean, Bisping just, you know, picked him apart. And, you know, it wasn't even really a fight.

You know, it was bismic dominated him. But I always remember that. Like he got through the weight cut. He made the way. And he looked good on the scale. He didn't look like dehydrated or depleted or like, you know, where he's stumbling around trying to get on the scale. Like he didn't look like that.

But I was with him afterwards and he was rough, man. He couldn't eat. You know what I mean? So just making the weight doesn't solve the problem. Like, you know, just because you make 135 doesn't mean you're going to perform incredibly the next day. Yeah, it's interesting because obviously I got made weight many, many times and I cut a decent amount of weight to get there.

And, you know, it's what, like you said, it's one thing making the weight, but like I felt those same things before where, you know, you have, you, you've, you've practically been fasting for the last however many days, you know, at least 24 hours is pretty standard, at least 24 hours. Sometimes, you know, in the days before that, maybe you don't consider fasting, but it's practically fasting, right? Like you're just eating so low calories and you're still pushing your body and you're sweating. And then when you jump off that scale, you just can't wait to eat and drink and everything, you know, especially when you get some water.

But the way your body reacts, I've never really read any science about it, but I'd be really interested to know some of the things that are going on inside your body with your stomach shrunk up, the dehydration, the stomach acid, because it's hard to eat. It takes time for your body to even be able to absorb all that nutrients, you know? And, yeah, you know, I've puked before the night of. Sometimes, you know, you can't even really eat a decent meal for at least a few hours. You know what I mean?

You know, and you feel it the next day, too. And sometimes, you know, you'll end up eating really good on Friday after the wake cut. and then but you're starving all night, Friday night, so you don't sleep that well. You know, there's a lot of different little pieces to that that's interesting you bring up because, you know, it seems like, oh, you know, you just, you go rehydrate and recover and you'll be back to Norma's 24 hours to be fine.

Yeah. It's not quite like that. Well, you fought almost your entire career at Welterweight, and I'd imagine even though you had it, like you knew what to do to make weight, I'd imagine every time's a little different, right? Like you made weight, like you made weight and sometimes you feel amazing and then sometimes you don't. And that's like your weight class. You fought there almost your entire career.

And I imagine like that's just the risk you run cutting weight, right? Yeah. So there's a few pieces to that. So when we say, yeah, you feel a little different every time, a lot of that's like the lead up, you know, not just the week of the, the weight cut, fight week, not even necessarily the week before, but like the five, six weeks leading up to it. You know, how, sorry. You know, all that time leading up to it plays a part where, you know, how adapted is your

body to being depleted, you know, how much energy are you expending? You know, did you water load properly? Also, a lot of times it's the location that you go to. like for instance i cut weight in brazil one time you know there's no sauna there and it was a very very long flight to get there uh or when i fought in abdhabi i mean that was a really really hard weight cut because i was kind of jet lagged and you know not really feeling um energetic all week and you know the the time difference threw everything off and um you know so there's a lot more pieces to that puzzle than just simply, you know, just you're cutting weight and everything's good, right?

You know, do you have access to a sauna and, you know, how adapted is your body to asanas, which I don't even use saunas anymore? You know, I used the, you know, the sauna suit, like on a bike or walking on the treadmill, things like that, and that treats my body a lot better. But I didn't even something like that. Like, I didn't know that for, you know, I guess probably 10 years. fighting the UFC. I was using Asana every time.

That's what everybody else was doing. And then I tried one time with the bike because I didn't have access to Asana. And I was like, dude, this is fucking 10 times better. You know, like my body feels way better. Yeah, there's so, so many factors to that. And then also there's how you recover too. You know, because you're going to get this input from a lot of different people on how you recover from a weight cut, right?

You know, whether it's like the UFC, they give you, like Vitargo and which is a carbohydrate that's fast to absorbing you know they give you all these electrolytes and you know they have this whole plan for you all laid out specifically how to rehydrate and I tried that shit once and it did terrible for me now I just drink water

it's just what I want is some fucking water I don't need all your you know supplements and all this bullshit give me some damn water and I'll be good So I said, you know, that's part of, you know, I wonder how she did a taste, I wonder how Kayla did her test weight cut too, because, you know, how did she recover from that and did it work out, you know, the way that she wanted, you know, again, there's just so, so many pieces to that.

Yeah, there's no, there's no perfect right or wrong answer. I remember back in the day, one of the first UFC events I ever went to was when Rich Franklin fought Evan Tanner and won the middleweight title. I was at that fight in Atlantic City. And I remember Rich, the second he got up to scale, man, he weighed in. And that was obviously back in the day when you weigh in, you know, the night, not the morning or whatever. But I remember he stepped off to scale and came off and immediately his coach handed him peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Like that's how he just, that's how, that was his routine.

And it helped him put the way back on, feel better. And he was just so hungry and depleted at that point. He always had a couple peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I always remember that about Rich. But everyone's got their own method. Like you said, that what the UFC. provides for you, they think is scientifically or whatever physically what you, you know, what your body needs, but may not be what Matt Brown's body needs, you know, yours just needs water. And so,

yeah, again, if there's anyone I'm going to have faith in doing it right, it's Kayla Harrison. If there's one person I've learned not to question, it's Kayla freaking Harrison, and I think she'll do it the right way. But again, even doing it the right way doesn't mean it's going to react the same way every single time. Like I said, you could do it all right. Well, that's the other other piece of that is we always talk about this, you know, doing it the right way. There's no right way to almost kill yourself. You know what I mean? Like you are not supposed to be that dehydrated.

Like I know my lean body mass. I know how hydrated I am. I know all these details about my body. I am not supposed to be 170 pounds, right? It is, there is simply not healthy for me. I would put money. Kayla Harrison is not supposed to be 135 pounds. So no matter how perfect you do everything, those last few pounds suck horribly.

You can literally do the entire thing perfect, exactly what every science, you know, the world-class scientist tells you to do, and all the research is perfect. You practiced 100 times, whatever. It will fucking suck. period. Like your body is not supposed to do what you're doing to it. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. What you said, there's no right way. There's no right way. There's no right way to almost kill yourself. You're absolutely right because you're not, the human body is not made to weight cut. You know what I mean? Like that's not what you're supposed to do

to deplete yourself 20, 30 pounds at a 24 hour, you know, 24 hour period or whatever. And I remember and I remember talking. Go ahead, go ahead. I think there's a more efficient way, right? Like there's been times, at least for my body and maybe other guys might say different. But for my body, there's been times where the weight came off quicker, more efficiently, you know. But again, those last few pounds, I felt the same every single time. That's why I've heard these rumors that I don't think are true, but about there being a 60, and 75 pound weight class announced to 300,

which are probably just bullshit trolls or something. I think it's not true or it'd probably be bigger news. But I would love that because 175, my body, it's not easy, but my body can handle that. 170, like I said, I'm literally suffering. And I know so many other people that say the exact same thing. And see, in this situation, like, you know, because you, you are a veteran and you've gone through it and I know you're not you're not made to be

170 pounds just like Kayla's not made to be 135 pounds I would say what advice would you offer her but is it really valid because everyone's different like I don't know like it's weird because like what works for you may not work for her I don't know like is there advice because she's cut weight like she cuts to 155 like she she she did the Olympics at 178 now that's same day way ends obviously and so you're not going through nearly as severe as a weight cut just like you know wrestling you're doing morning weigh-ins and wrestling in the afternoon so you're certainly not depleting your body to the same level and extent that you would fight in the O.C. That's why you know you see wrestlers wrestling at 188 and then they come in the O.C. and they fight at 170 because, you know, they can go through a more extreme weight cut. But yeah, I don't know. Is there advice you can offer a person or is even worth offering advice because you don't know what her body's going to go through? Well, when you talk about advice, I'm thinking, I'm guessing that you're saying, you know, what kind of advice we give in terms of like what to eat? eat or how to properly do the weight cut. But all that shit, again, when you get down to the last five pounds, it sucks, period.

And it doesn't matter what you did. It's just simply going to suck and you're going to have to push yourself and all of your metal is going to be tested. Your mind's going to be tested. Your will is going to be tested. And, you know, I would give the same advice in just about any very difficult venture that you're going to do and you know and that's just about keeping a positive mind and uh it's the hardest time probably that i can think of that uh to keep your mind positive and keep focused on the

goal like you start really questioning you know whether you can do it like whether it's physically possible you know i've i've been there where you know you start wondering like how healthy is this like am I going to fucking die in here? That's why I've never been a fan of the whole like locking guys and saunas and shit. You know, when I'm weight cut, helping other people weight cut,

like I'm just trying to be positive the whole time. Like that's all you can do and that's the only advice I can give is, you know, keep your mind positive. You know, I'll listen to like motivational speeches sometimes when I'm doing it. And I never, I'm not a motivational speech guy.

You know, I'm not that guy listening to shit all the time. But that's one time when I do it. A lot of times I'll listen to like classical music, you know, something that's, you know, just relaxing to the mind and kind of zones it out. And I'll practice like meditation for a lot of reasons, but that's one of the times where it really comes in handy because you can kind of just meditate your way through the weight cut. You know, and so I kind of got that from remember the guy who set himself on fire. the monk or whatever they said himself. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they said, you know, he claimed or they claimed, you know,

that he was able to meditate through that pain. So that's sort of my thoughts on that, you know, is just learn how to meditate through that pain. And it's so my point is it's hard to give advice on that. Like, like, how can your advice be, stay positive? Yeah. Like, it's tough advice to give, you know. But that's about the only thing. The only two cents that I can put in is, you know, you have to figure out a way to keep the positivity up the entire time and keep believing in what you're doing.

And all of that stuff, that's where a lot of those things are set up weeks, if not months before. You know, the mental training. That's where it starts coming in handy. The self-talk, the language that you use, things like that. Yeah, I remember one of the embeddeds that had when Jose Aldo was cutting down the bantaway, and he was in his room in one of those sauna, like self-sana things, you know what I'm talking about? Like the little domes.

And he was rocking out as like Pantera and stuff. And like he was just like jamming to music. And I was like, that's probably a part of it. Like, he's been a positive attitude. Like, yeah, smile on his face. And he's just kind of like rocking out some music. And I was like, fuck yeah, yeah, Jose Aldo likes Pantera. But like it was just, you know, you can just tell he's just vibing out.

Like everyone's got their own way. But yeah, you're right. Like, you know, because it's going to test you, man. Like, I've seen it, man. I've seen it firsthand. That will absolutely test you in ways physically that you'll never understand going through again. So, but again, if there's one person I'm not going to question with that's going to be Kayla Harrison. But as you said, you got a tall order 24 hours later.

You better hope everything goes well because you got Holly Holme waiting you. And Collie home is no joke. And that's the only other part that I would add to that is not only are you being tested mentally so much. during that wake cut. You also don't want to expend any energy doing it because you need to save your energy for the next day. I don't know how many times I made the mistake of, you know, my way cut so hard that I put all of my mental energy on Friday or, you know, Thursday night and Friday cutting that weight that I was just burned out by Saturday. And then by the time you get to the fight, you're just like, dude, I don't even feel like doing this now.

you know so that's where i started doing the meditation listen to classical music trying to zone out of it and you know using positive language and things like that versus trying to um versus trying to like i can do this i like i don't really like the pantera thing right because he's probably like fuck yeah like let's go you know what i mean kind of being driven through that versus kind of floating through it if that makes sense yeah i feel like i want to listen to like bird and just like laugh my ass off try to keep a positive attitude that way listen to comedy tips or something like I feel like that would be my thing because like when I'm in a really crappy mood or I'm just not feeling well like I'll watch like old Eddie Murphy stand up and it

just cracks me up and it just gets my mind off things like that would probably be my thing but I imagine it's like it's different for every like you said you listen to classical music whatever it is just find that thing that kind of get you in that groove and get you through it because it's not going to be easy like I don't care how good you are at it it's not going to be good because no one's meant to cut 20 pounds in 24 hours. Like, the human body is not supposed to do that. But again, if she does it and pulls off this fight, man, it's a huge addition. I was about ready to swing the death nail on that division.

And the fact that Kayla's coming in, if she can do it successfully, I'm not saying it saves everything because it's just one fighter. But Amanda Nunes was talking about coming out of retirement, you know, so a couple of things could be happening. Maybe we get a little bit of rejuvenation in here. Yeah, I'm guessing they're probably trying to rejuvenate that because I don't think there's much interest in it. And, you know, it's like, you know, a lot of us are going to feel this way, you know, like it's just not that interesting. Right.

Like, you know, I don't want to sound like sexist or anything, but like the women's fights are just not as interesting as the men's fights. I think you share that same opinion with Sean Strickland. I think he's had the same opinion. Yeah, well, I mean, he's a little bit more insulting towards him. Like, I'm not, you know, going to insult the way that they compete or anything. You know, I think they do the best they can. But we just don't have a group of studs. You know what I mean?

Like, you might get like a girl like Amanda Nunes coming in and beating up a bunch of women that should probably be housewives, you know, or you get, you know, the Joannas and the Rondas that are beating up women that, you know, probably wouldn't make a, you know, a club soccer team, you know, and, and that makes it uninteresting to me. It's not the fact that, you know, again, I think Strickland has a little bit of a different view on it, right? Whereas my view is more like, like, what was so interesting about watching, like, GSP's runs, like, he's beating these fucking studs. you know, these guys that were going to be champions if he weren't there, right? Or, you know, or Anderson Silva or Israel out of Sonia. You know, these guys like that that are, they're beating guys that are fucking monsters.

You know, and there's just one after the other where it just seems like with these women fights, there's like one or two that kind of stick out. and then eventually they have a fight where you're like, she wasn't so good. You know what I mean? I mean, I disagree on some level, depending on what you're talking about, because I think that's the problem we're seeing right now,

Bantaway, because the talent pool is just too shallow. Like, there's just not, like we have like three or four women who are high level, and then just a bunch of, like, who are they, you know, not great fighters. But then I think when you look at flyweight and straw weight, you get into

Zhang Wei Lee. We talked many times about Zhang Wei Li and Yohanna, like what a high level fight that was. Tatiana Suarez, you know, Olympic level wrestler, you bring in like that. McKinsey Dern, of course, incredible jiu-jitsu. Like, you know, they're, you know, Jess Gondrash, like there's certain people. And I think Flyway right now you look at, you know,

Aaron Blanchfield is a badass. You know what I mean? Like, she's a badass. You look at, you know, Mano Fior, good kickboxer, things like that. course, you know, you got Valentina Shepchenko, who is incredible Muay, Alexa Grosos. So I disagree on that level. I'll agree more on Bantamweight, though, because Bantam weight over the last couple of years has really fallen apart to where there just isn't a deep talent pool. But even when you go to those weight classes, can you name like four or five that are like

studs? You know what I mean? I mean, I can because it's kind of my job, but I know what you're saying. I just, I think that I think that. I think like anything else If you're not building It's like it's like the training thing If you're not growing you're dying

And I think that the talent pool hasn't grown as much In some of those divisions And I think that's a problem That's why I said the other day When I was doing the pockets We had Alan Joe Bannon last week We were talking about how bad the women's bandweight division is I was like the UFC should just go scout out the Olympics

And find women's wrestlers who are around that weight And develop them like you did with a Like, like, even in the, like, okay, what's the best division in the women's, you think? In fighting or wrestling, which one you talk about? And fighting, yeah. What's the best, most competitive, highest level division? I would say, honestly, right now, probably flyweight, just because it's the deepest, because you got people coming up and down from 115 and 135.

So flyweight seems to be that way right now, I would say. And, okay, who's the champion? Alex Grasso. So, I'm sorry. And she took it from Valentina. Now, if you go down the top 10, by time you get to like number seven or eight, I'm betting without looking because I'm not, I don't like watch these that close. But I'm betting by time you get down to like seven or eight,

you're getting girls that are like four and two, you know, four, you know, five and four, you know, things like this. I mean, you can make the same argument, though, about some heavyweight fights. So you look at the men's heavyweight. So to be fair, I have made that argument about heavyweight. I've never been a big fan of heavyweight. Yeah, I mean, I think you can make that same argument. When you get outside that top five or six in heavyweight, he gets pretty rough.

Yeah, I've made that same argument about heavyweight. Like, I do not enjoy heavyweight fights nearly as much as I do other divisions. And I've never been as impressed with heavy weights. Um, there is the, you know, right now, it seems like the heavyweight division has looked pretty good. But, you know, I think it's very much similar where you're talking at the top, you know, there's some real fucking killers. And, but it starts dropping off really, really quick. Yeah, it was that way for a long time light heavyweight too.

Like light heavy weights turned around a lot now when you bring in guys like Yuri and Alex and, of course, Jamal Hill. But right after John left, you looked at that division. you're like, oh boy. Like this is, it's getting a little rough when you get down around 10-11. I think heavyweight's the same way. So I think depending on the division, you know, like I said, everyone kind of ebbs and flows like that. But like you look at heavyweight, and I'm certainly not trying to insult the heavyweights,

but you get outside that top 5-6, it's getting pretty rough. Like, you know, Tom Aspinall is the stud, Curtis Blades is a stud, Jalton-almet is a stud, John Jones, obviously, Stepe, a couple other guys. But you start looking at number 10-11, you're like, hmm, I don't know about all this. I'd have to look and see because I don't know all the names at the tens and 11s there but again to me it seemed like

you know the women's divisions have had a long time to build up but I hate when I see a girl you know it's like four and two or you know I've seen some that are like 50 50 you know with their records and and they're in like the top 10

I'm like that's not the way it's supposed to be you know well that was that was the argument we were having last week about women's bansaway, you know, number 15 in the UFC is a girl named Chelsea Chandler. She's five and two. Like, that's not, you know, like, that's not, that's, you're number 15 by default. You're not number 15 because you earn that spot. You're number 15 because there's like 17 fighters on the roster and, you know, the other two people

are on like four or five losing streaks or whatever the case may be. Like, that's not, you know, and I also said, Margaret, last week I said, there's two fighters in the top 15 under the age of 30. that's not good. Like youth matters. Like you need some, you know, 20 year old killers, 25 year old killers. None of that. So.

And that's kind of, that's my point where it gets really uninteresting. And then, and then even, and I know this would be controversial. So, you know, don't make it the headline or whatever. But,

but, you know, when you take someone like a man of Nunes, she's the greatest fighter of all time. And then like the way she shit the bed against Giuliana Pena, and I was like, like, I was like, dude, like, GSP got knocked out by Matt Sarah, but like, Matt Sarah's a fucking badass, you know what I mean?

Like anybody could fuck up and Matt Sarah could fuck up anybody, you know what I mean? But it made me, it just made me stop in question. Like, like, dude, is she really that fucking good? And, you know, she came back and proved like she's pretty fucking good. And I think, you know, she is good and everything. But it just, I don't know. There's something about, you know, the women's divisions

that just make it way less interesting. I mean, everyone's got their thing, and like I said, I can't begrudge me. That's like me trying to convince you that you need to watch a Marvel movie. Like, you don't like Marvel movies. You're not in the comic book shit. Like that's not your thing.

Well, yeah. You know, so I'm not going to sit there. I like Marvel movies, bro. But you know what I'm saying? But I'm saying, like, it's like me telling you, like, man, I love this movie. I think it's a great achievement in filmmaking.

You're like, yeah, I saw it. I didn't like it. That's like me spending 20 minutes trying to convince you that you should watch it again. And it's, you know, what you like. Because like this world we live in, like I kind of have to justify, you know, I kind of have to break down why it's uninteresting to me, you know, if I just say,

like, that's the difference between like me and Sean Strickland, right? I think, you know, we probably share a lot of the same opinions, but he's going to say it very roughly, like, these fucking women suck, you know, and I'll actually spend the time to explain, you know, why it doesn't suck, but, you know, why it's not as interesting to me as it is other divisions. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left.

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before they become breaches across email, clouds, networks, and more. DarkTrace is the cybersecurity defenders deserve and the one they need to defend beyond. Visit darktrace.com forward slash defenders for more information. Yeah, let me ask you this, kind of because you're talking about criticism right there. And I think that fair criticism is what it is. Like you have to be willing to talk about. Like we're in the world now where like you have two directions. You either get, you know, you're either wrong for your opinion, which you can't really be wrong about an opinion.

Or you break someone's feelings. You hurt someone's feelings with an opinion, which I don't like that either. Like I'm not in the, you know, that's not how it is. Now, you know, you replied on Twitter about this last week. You know, John Annick got pretty upset and he was talking on his podcast about, you know, some of the heat he took. and I know he issued another thing. He said, you know, kind of he did the moment, and I apologize. I didn't mean to react that way.

But you saw one side of people coming out and saying, leave John Anick alone. Like, he's the best we got. Good dude. And then you saw Sean Strickland come out and he's like, fuck it. Like, you know, we got great fans, savage fans. Like, you can't take it out of the kitchen. You can't take the heat out of the kitchen. I think there's a middle ground there, right?

Like, I've always been a big believer in never read the comments ever. Like, if you want your mental health to stay even moderately decent, like don't read the comments and I understand it's different because you as a fighter live in a much more public facing life than even I do. Like when you win, you're on top of the world. When you lose, you get a billion messages telling you how bad you suck. And I know like that's awful. John Anick is a good dude. I know John Anick very well. I'd call him a friend. He's incredible at his job. My biggest, and I know this and I know it happens with fighters, Matt. I know we've talked about this before, but fighters do tend to sometimes get a little up in their feelings

about commentators. And commentators are just doing their job. Like, I'm not saying they're right or wrong. Have I heard commentary that's been wrong? Absolutely. I've heard commentators say, this guy absolutely won a round. I'm like, what fight were you watching? They did not win that round.

Like, do you know how to score the fight? But, like, people get so upset at this shit. And it's just like, like, the commentators aren't scoring the fight. Like they're not the actual judges Like I know for a fact When I'm watching a fight sometimes I watch it I'm typing, I'm texting

I'm tweeting whatever the case may be And I score it and I go back and rewatch them like Oh I miss that or I'm just little things here and there People get way too offended by commentary Whether it's a fighter the fans like calm down Like they're not there to be malicious They're not there to hurt you Like can they be wrong?

Absolutely they are not perfect beings but we got to calm down on like attacking the commentators for what they say like dude you don't have to like it but like they're not doing it to hurt you yeah no shit right and uh i mean i just i don't see how you couldn't like john anick you know and one of the one of the things about him that i like about his commentary is he's pretty good at not constantly expressing his opinion i think that's more like a dc and rogan thing which fair game to them i love their commentary too but they they kind of he kind of leaves it to them more to express their opinions right he's a lot more objective about things and just kind of saying

what's going on and he's very fucking good at it and i find it pretty rare that he actually you know puts out an opinion or at least a strong opinion you know um and but it seems like you know the few times he does, it's when he takes a bunch of shit. So he's probably not used to getting that kind of feedback, right? DC and Rogan are probably a lot more used to that because they're constantly putting out opinions, right? And they're used to people getting, you know, getting pushback from people and getting hate and, you know, these nasty things people say on the internet that, you know, just blow you

away that people take the time to type things out and, you know, what are you doing? with your day right now that made you just decide to type this right so um to me that was probably what got john going right he's probably just simply not used to that right he's extremely good at what he does and he's a lot more he's just more objective about things most of time right and he's kind of you know not really as in the limelight as like a rogan and dc and uh maybe maybe Dominic a little bit here and there you know like Dominic can get pretty opinionated at times

and I'm sure they take the shit for it but with John I just I'm like I just couldn't understand you know what there is to hate about the guy I mean he's just a fucking good dude you know yeah I just I just couldn't understand it so I don't even actually know the entire story of everything to happen but

John has always been nothing but respectful to me so I just stuck up for him and I don't even know the whole story but I'm gonna stick up for him and take his side yeah I think I think part of it is like we asked these guys to do a job and it's not an easy job because I've tried to do commentary it's hard like when you gotta fill seven hours like you got to fill seven hours of fight time like it's hard but also like you don't want these guys to be non-opinionated you want like our show wouldn't be our show if we didn't give our opinions. And we just sat here in every subject we ever talked about. We were like, well,

I could see it going this way, or I could see it going this way, but I really don't know. I really don't know. It just wouldn't be... Because also when I was actually watching the NFL games over the weekend and I was listening to their commentary, they're actually really good about not being opinionated about things. Like they're very much

like just saying kind of what's going on during the game. And, you know, I think particularly like with Joe Rogan coming in the UFC originally. Like we've gotten used to here or from boxing. Like those guys are very opinionated, you know, when you listen to boxing commentary.

And I think we've kind of, as combat sports fans, gotten used to that commentary. And now there's a whole group of individuals or humans on this planet that have gotten very used to putting their opinion online and saying nasty things about people and not getting any recourse for it. Yeah, I mean, I just, I don't know. Like I said, I don't, like, I don't think, like, I don't think anyone in that commentary team does a particularly bad job. Do I like certain teams better than others?

Sure. Because, you know, everyone's got their own style. Like, I know you said, like, you like Joe Rogan and D.C. Like, you love Joe Rogan calling twice. He's the king. I like Joe, too. I like him very much. I like Daniel Corby.

Like, I know DC rubs a lot of people the wrong way. And I'm like, D.C. is my favorite commentator. You're like, I love DC. Now, am I friends with DC? And, like, do I consider him a friend, like, outside of, you know, the sport? Sure. But I think he's great at it. Like, I think he's awesome.

You know what I mean? But not everyone, not everyone, trust me. Not everyone believes that. Not everyone agrees with me. That's actually one of the things I like about DC is he rubs me the wrong way all the time when he's commentate him. Yeah, but I mean. I like, yeah, but I, but I, like, and I, I, I hear what you're saying about the NFL.

I do. But, like, I, you know, it's funny. is the guys who tend to get the most talk about them who get the most publicity are the guys who do get a little bit more opinionated. They're the ones who actually end up calling the bigger games. Like a Tony Romo, he gets, he gets, like, people like, dude, you're jock riding certain guys.

Like he just absolutely, he's like, oh, this guy's the greatest thing ever and blah, blah, blah, and they talk him up and whatever. And he gets accused that. Now, that's opinion, maybe more positive opinion, but he does get accused like, you favor this team over that team because you're talking about what a great guy.

this is and his coach is this and blah blah blah so it happens in every sport uh and the NFL let's be honest the NFL is you know a hundred times bigger than the UFC and in in America you know it means like I can only imagine what those guys go through when they you know when they have a call that people don't like but yeah it's just weird like you said like John Annick's like the nicest dude ever and he's like the least controversial guy of that entire crew like he gives the least amount of opinion but even the guys that give opinion like calm down like you know what I mean like they're not doing it because they want to hurt you. And I'm certain, certainly they're not doing it to, you know, harm a fighter.

Like, their fans, just like you and I are fans. Like, when I give my opinion, I'm not, I'm certainly never doing it to hurt anyone's feelings. I'm just giving my opinion, just like Joe Rogan does, just like Daniel Corby does. Like, when Joe Rogan says on his podcast, I'm watching it today, and he said that, like, he was talking about that conversation he had about a month ago, two months ago, and he said that he's like, it pissed off a lot of fighters when I said that if you want to be considered the best of the world.

you need to fight the UFC. And I understand going to PFL and making a million dollars and Bellator paying you a lot more money and all this guy. I understand all that. But if you want to be considered the best in the world and you want to be the biggest star in the world, you need to fight the UFC. And that pissed off a lot of people, but he's not wrong.

Right. You know, like it or not, I like Bellator. I love what the PFL is doing right now. I do. But I know when I write a story or cover a fight UFC gets a thousand times the attention. You know, like the PFL versus Bellator card in February is a damn good card. I'm excited about that card.

UFC 300 will dwarf that card. It won't even be close. So I'm not saying it to be offensive. I'm not saying guys, like, I think Patchy Mix is the best band to weight in mixed martial arts. I think he's better than Sean O'Malley. I think he's better than the current UFC champion. but I guarantee you the vast majority of the casual audience people buying and watching fights no Sean O'Malley they may not know patchy mix why Sean O'Malley's in the UFC that's the reality

fact yeah and the last thing I'll kind of say about the two is you know we got to remember that John was on his podcast and it probably like just read those comments yeah and was probably feeling the emotions from it and I don't think there's any way to not have that way on your mind a little bit. Oh, of course. Because again, people say just these fucked up things sometimes that, you know, I'm pretty good at brushing it off. But like, I've had times where, you know, I read these comments and you're like,

you're like, God, is that motherfucker right? Like, am I really the most worthless piece of shit on this planet? You know, you can't not read it and it affect you in some way. And I think he was just expressing in the moment what he was feeling. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, you know. You know, so these people like calling him a pussy. And, you know, if you can't take the heat, get out, or kitchen, you know, whatever, these kind of stupid people.

You know, I would appreciate him, you know, being open and honest about it. He's like, dude, like, I'm not feeling this shit. Like, I don't, you know, he's like, I didn't sign up to fucking. be hated like this and um and that was part partially probably a big part of reason why i wanted to send out a positive message to them i look like you got people like myself for instance that love you bro and um you know hopefully the the the positive comments outweigh the negative yeah no absolutely like i said like it's like all the people you can get upset with john annick is not to do it. Like, he is like the nicest, like, no one dislikes John Anick. You don't.

Like, it's just not like the dude doesn't do anything to be disliked. And you're probably right. I think you're 100% right. Like, he's not used to it. And so people lashed out. And he's like, what the hell is this? Like, I'm not used to this. And, you know, that's what happens. Like, you know. And so that's why I say, like, I get hate messages occasionally. And I kind of brush them all. But that's like two or three. When you lose a fight, you're probably get 40,000 people being like, you suck. You're the worst ever. You're this. You're that. you know what I mean like not really I don't get it too bad it's usually when I to be honest this podcast is probably brought me more hate mail than anything I've ever done it's when you put

out an opinion it's exactly like what John did like when you put out an opinion like people don't have a respectful way to debate or go back and forth with you they just say hateful shit and the problem the difficult part is you could read a thousand positive positive comments and like your level of how good you feel about yourself stays relatively the same. You probably already felt good about yourself and they're just kind of reinforcing, you know, whatever it is. But that it only takes a couple of negative comments to take that level down notches really fast. Like it starts falling off the ladder really fast and then immediately like you want to engage. And all that does is bring you down the ladder more.

And of course, if you engage, they're coming back. And, you know, I'm not Dana White. Like, like, these other guys are, you know, these people are really good with their comebacks. You know, like my solution is, let's just fight about it. Dana, at least he used to be very good at going back and forth of these guys. And it was comical and it was fun. And I think he had a, you know, a lot of fun with it.

I think he's probably not allowed to do that now with the, you know, being under endeavor and everything. But for me, that never worked, you know, because as soon as you, you want to come back to me, I'm like, well, let's just fight. Well, then the reality is, like I said, I mean, the funny thing is, is like the negativity always, the negativity is always louder. That's just the nature of the beast, you know what I mean? People screaming and hollering, you know, you're a piece of shit, you're wrong.

And, you know, that's always louder than the people are like, I agree. with you. You know what I mean? Like that's just the nature. That's the nature of social media. That's the day, dude, I've been to a million UFC fights. And I always, without it, without failure, I always hear the one moron shouting something stupid in the background, not the 10,000 people just cheering on a fight. I always hear the one moron saying, you fucking suck or, you know, that's the, that's just where, that's just the nature of our, you know, that's what we're in tune to hear. So, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Like, you know,

and that's what we're conditioned to hear. We're conditioned to the negativity always rings louder than the positivity. So you could make an opinion on this show and there can be a billion people to agree with you. But those, you know, 200 people that hate it are just louder, you know? Like, I mean they're right. They're just louder. Well, and particularly when you're discussing like this show in particular, you guys, you journalists are very good at like pulling out headlines and not giving context.

I don't know if it's you to pick it or someone else or whatever, but, you know, and the fans or anti-fans, whatever you want to call it, the people reading it are great at reading a headline and not looking any deeper to see what the context was. So it always ends up just being a headline and you're just like, you're like, dude, that's not what I was saying. like kind of like with Joe Rogan with the N-word stuff you know it's like it's like did you guys look into that at all like you like he's not a racist you fucking idiots yeah I think it's listen and I'll I'll defend the journalists here I'm not saying they're because you know listen just like I can't say all fighters all journalists aren't the same do some people make headlines specifically to you know game the system so to speak sure

it absolutely happens I know they do I've seen some bad ones trust me But there's also the reality of like, you know, you got 80 or 90 characters to work with, and there's only so much you can fit in the headline, you know what I mean? So it's like, you know, if your opinion, like, it's not that you're false in what you said. It's more of like you got to read it to understand it goes beyond that. Like if I say, you know, I get that the idea of the headline is to get people to read it too. So it has to be something interesting. You can't be like, you know, Matt Brown said he watches,

car this weekend because like, oh, I'm going to read that. What about? What's the that's the one? That's the one that you're, it's not, it's not in the headlines that bug me. It's the people who grade it off the headline and don't actually read it. If you read it and disagree

with me or disagree with whatever, okay, we can have a discussion. Don't read a headline and come at me and say, well, you know, this guy is not as good as you think he is or whatever the headline is and be like, did you actually read the criticism? Like, did you read why we're saying he's, not as good as he is or why he lost the fight or whatever the opinion is.

You know what I mean? Like there's no way you can fit that entire thing into a headline. Don't come at me just because of a headline. Come at me because you read the article and we disagree. Great. We can have a conversation about it. But don't read a headline just as says, you know, I thought he lost a fight. And you're just pissed off because you can't handle your feelings that you think

someone lost a fight and you can't agree with them or disagree with them. Like I saw a million headlines this week and people have been like, they scored it for Dracus over Sean or they scored it for Sean over Dracus and like people losing their shit I'm just like did you read why they think the way they think like did you actually understand why they scored it

the way they scored it like are you just like headline are you just chasing the headline you get pissed off it doesn't make any sense to me that they would get mad at you know say my opinion your opinion John Annix's opinion D.C.'s opinion anybody like the only fucking opinion that matters is the judge

like getting mad at them. Yeah, it's an opinion, too. That's the other thing. Like, we've come to a world now where you can't have an opinion. Like, you know, like, dude, who cares? Like, I don't agree with you. Like, we can have a fun discussion.

Like, I don't totally agree with what you're saying about women's fighting. But that doesn't mean we can't have a discussion. I can't be like, no, no, no, fuck you, Matt Brown. Right, right, especially when it's a goddamn, it's two people in a fucking bite in a cage. Yeah. Like, you really,

give that much of a shit. You know, like, it's not really, just like, you know, these people would go crazy about the Super Bowl. I'm like, I'm like, dude, it's a bunch of athletes trying to put a ball across a fucking line. Like, do you really fucking care? I mean, I'll

tell you right now, the Bengals win a Super Bowl, I'll fucking care a lot. I'll tell you that much right now. I'll be the guy, I'll be the guy on top of the, on top of the building screaming my head off. The Bengals ever went to Super Bowl. So I will absolutely do that. I mean, it's pretty exciting and stuff, but but you would never care enough that like if anybody you know said fuck the bingles or whatever

like you're not going to be like oh fuck you right like you're not going to create eight over this or anything and like that's what it doesn't make any sense like it's just a fucking stupid thing like life is too short for that shit like what what are we doing here you know like rogan says like we're on a fucking rock floating around in the middle of nothing you know floating in a circle around a big fireball. Like, who gives a fuck, bro? I'm never going to reveal the name, but there was years ago I did a story. Someone had some really opinionated things about say about Connor McGregor,

like really opinionated things about Connor McGregor. And they said it. Like, I didn't make up what they said. They said what they said. Article came out and everyone lost their shit. And they went after the fighter. And the fighter messed me. He's like, is there any way you could change the headline?

Because the Irish fans are just out from my throat. I'm like, dude, like, you said it. And I didn't misquote you. I didn't like put words into your mouth. And he's just like, he was getting bombarded with Irish fans calling him stupid and you suck and this and that. And I was like, dude, like, you can't let that affect you, man.

Like, if you let that affect you, you're really going to, like, not have a good time in the sport because people are going to come for your throat for anything. And if you show the least, if you show one ounce of weakness, they're going to pounce all over you. I mean, my God,

don't say a word about fucking Miley Cyrus. you know but you know what I'm saying like that's my point like that's what I'm saying like dude I said I'll never forget year I still bring this up years ago Justin Bieber showed up to a UFC event I made a joke on a tweet to one of my colleagues and I said if you see him again can you trip him and make sure he falls down because you know Justin Bieber to this day like five years later every now and again I'll still get an errant comment of some just a Beaver fan, be like, you're a piece of shit. Or, you know, fuck you or, you know,

you're fucking whatever. And I'm like, it was a joke, I joked that they should tripping me, should fall down. But that's what I'm saying. Like, that's how fucking wild these people are. I love it, bro. At least it's funny because, like, okay, like all the Strickland fans, you're like, these are potentially

dangerous people. We don't really know who they are. They might be a, a Beber fan or like a, I don't know what they call Miley Cyrusisies. or something. I don't know what they're called, but I'm like, we're not worried about you little fucking 12 year olds in

your rooms fucking tweeting on your mom's iPhone. Yeah, but yeah, I just like this, to this day, like I still get a rate, like every now and again, I get a random message to be like, fuck you. And I'm like, what did I do? And I look and they're responding to my Justin Bieber tweet from like five years ago. And I'm like, why how the hell did you even find this? Like, where is this? Like, what are you doing? Like, are you just trolling

Twitter trying to find Justin Bieber comment? like what's going on here they probably do and you know maybe i should talk some shit about taylor swift now because that's like that would get me the most because these swifties bro my daughter's into the the tetea shit i'm like god damn like like she's she might be demonic or satan because the spell that she is cast over this planet is absolutely nothing i've ever seen yeah i'm not i'm not like I don't I will say there's a I did there was one Taylor Swift song I did like I admit it

I like a Taylor Swift song but I'm certainly not a Taylor Swift like I'm not a Taylor Swift like I'm not still be friends after this Damon dude I don't know don't I don't start I can shoot little I told you recently there was a Papa Roach song I like if you didn't disown me after that you're not going to disson bro I don't know man

but let me finish my point edge of enemy here let me finish my point I don't I I could I couldn't care less about Taylor's one or the other. Like, she, I think she's probably a very talented person, and I'm glad people are fans of her. What I love right now, though, and this is making me a fan of Taylor Swift, is people losing their shit over her going to NFL games. And they're like, I'm so tired of Taylor Swift.

I'm so, I'm like, dude, calm the fuck down. Like, they're showing her on the screen for like three seconds at a time of her celebrating because her boyfriend won a game. Calm to fuck. People losing their shit over this. And I'm like, I hope they bring Taylor Swift down to the field and let her kick the fucking ball off. That's how much I wanted to piss you off. Like, calm down, people.

Like, I'm becoming a bigger fan of her because it's just pissing people off for no reason. Like, people are getting irritated. She's going to a football game. That same wavelength as you for a while. I was a little, but who cares? Like, he's Taylor Swift. She's a cute girl, you know? Like, show her on the screen.

It was better than, you know, all these big fucking brutes. I don't care to see these fucking guys, right? Like, show the hot girl, right? But now, every time the Chiefs play, my daughter tells me every trivial fact about Taylor Swift for the entire game. And she sits there and watches the entire Chiefs game waiting for Taylor Swift to come on the screen. And I hear it through my whole house how Taylor Swift is on the fucking screen. And it's the most comical thing ever. But I'm like, can I just enjoy this damn game?

Like you already told me that about Taylor Swift 20 times. You don't need to tell me again. I know that she was born in 1989. I know that she... You know how quickly Dana White would sell his soul to the devil to get Taylor Swift to date a fighter and bring her to the fight? It's like, bring that demographic. Holy shit.

Like, that's all the... Because I know. I see people, I see people now. They're like, I don't know anything about football, don't care about football, but they're buying, like, Travis Kelsey jerseys because Taylor Swift is dating him. Dude, like, if I was Travis Kelsey, I'd be the happiest guy in the world. Like, not only are you dating like the biggest star on Earth right now,

but like your jersey sells are through the roof, not because like Kansas City fans, because all her fans. Like, you know, like the whole, well, the whole question is, is it a conspiracy though? No, it's not. People need to calm down on that stuff. That's the big question. Is it a conspiracy that was put together by the government to get votes?

I don't think it was. I don't think it was at all. It's hilarious you say that though, but no, I don't think it's a conspiracy. I don't believe that either, but I was reading the whole thing about that the other day. They were saying, you know, so everybody go get the vaccine, you know, and so everybody vote for Joe Biden and all this shit. But here's the thing, though. They did say that there's one in five adult voters,

where I guess only adults. can vote but one in five voters are going to vote based off of Taylor Swift and can you believe that though that's crazy though that's crazy that is crazy it doesn't totally surprise me because I mean and here's my opinion it's going to piss people all

people are that gullible that you'll listen to a pop star to tell you who to vote for but yeah I don't like I said dude it's so hilarious like there's just so like there's so much more stuff to be worried about in this world and Taylor Swift, like, she's not doing anything bad. Like, she's not,

she's not starting wars. Like, I'm actually happy. Like, I think, at least from, again, I'm my own daughter who's completely obsessed with her, won't shut the fuck up about it. But I'm like, hey, it's Taylor Swift. Like, this isn't, you know, you know, the Kardashians, right?

Like, this is a, as far as I can tell, like a decent role model, you know, someone that's actually got some talent. Like, she writes, her own songs, you know, it's not like, like Jennifer Lopez out there, lip syncing and stuff. You know, it's like, you know, she does some good things. I think she means well for the world and community. So, you know, at least it's Taylor Swift.

It's not fucking the Kardashians. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's all. Don't get me start on that fucking family. The least talented people on earth who have millions of dollars for no reason other than being, you know, basically TV stars for being TV stars. Yeah, like Taylor Swift. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, Kim Kardashian, she came to fame because she made a porn tape. Yeah, like, dude, like Taylor Swift, dude, I saw this story a few months ago when she did her big tour that was all over the world. Like when the tour ended, she paid all the people who worked on her tour, like these massive fucking huge bonuses. Like truck drivers were getting like a $300,000 bonus. Like, that's fucking awesome.

Like that's, you know, like that is like, I'm all for that. And as you said, like, I may not listen to her music, but she's talented. Like, I don't have to like what she does to. be to admit to you. There is one song. There is one song I do like. I'm not going to do. You know, you know, he's a big Taylor Swift fan as Joseph Benavides. He loves Taylor Swift. Well, Joey B's got a lot of questionable things about it. But I'm just saying like, you know, and I'm also conflicted here because I'm a lifelong Bengals fan and the Chiefs are one of our biggest rivals. And Travis Kelsey in particular has had some words with my Bengals, but I'm also torn

because Travis and I went to the same college. He went to University of Cincinnati. That's where him and his brother both played. So we're, both, you know, he's an Ohio kid. He's from Cleveland, played at Cincinnati. So I'm like, damn it, Travis Kelsey. Like, I don't want to root for you. I can't root for you because you don't play for the Bengals,

but you are an Ohio kid. And, you know, you're from, graduated from my college. I'm like, uh, you know, I can't hate you. I'm like, you're kind of in the middle now, buddy. I can't,

I can't hate you, but I can't root for you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's a fucking stud, man. I can tell you that. Like, he's, God damn.

Watching that game of their day. I mean, that dude, the chiefs i'd say i i i don't know a ton about football but god damn when the when it comes down to the playoffs the chiefs fucking show up bro like like i didn't think they were going to do so great uh you know i wasn't even sure they were going to be a playoff team you know somewhere in the middle of the season and but when it comes down the playoffs Patrick mahomes and Travis Kelsey, Pacheco, like, these motherfuckers show up. They do.

They do. The only time that they haven't shown, the only time that they've had arrived in the last couple years is a man by the name of Joe, motherfucking Burrow. That's all I'm saying. That's right. He's a big UFC guy too. Joe Burrow loves the UFC. He's always at the UFC events.

Like, he's at a ton of it. He was at your fight in Columbus. And I remember I was back at the UFC. I was backstage. And one of the PR people comes back into like Joe Burrow. here and I was like listen I never asked for anything but if you can find a way to get Joe Burrow

to come back here for five minutes I will love you forever didn't happen I was so bummed but I was like Joe Burrow is out there I was like I just want to meet that guy and shake his hand and say thank you for fucking resurrecting this team that I've rooted for my entire life and they've sucked for about 90% of it so

dude Joe Burrow is that dude so I hope he gets healthy man God we need him back I need him back next season to actually turn things around because we had a shit season this year Yeah, yeah, well, I just, I'm only disappointed about the Lions because I've been a Lions fan on, I mean, I'm not, I'm not like a fan of a single team. I'm not that guy. My kids call me bandwagoners because I usually just root for who I think is going to win, you know, but the Lions, I've actually enjoyed them since I was a kid because they've always played on Thanksgiving. So I just always watched their games. I was never a huge football guy, but Thanksgiving, you got to watch football.

That's what they show. So I always loved the lines. And they had fucking Barry Sanders. Yeah. The greatest football player probably ever. I got to turn you around, dude. I got to get you to be a Bengals fan, man. You're from the area.

You got to do it, man. Go to. I'm a Bengals fan too because they came to my fight, you know. So I toured their stay and I messed some of the guys. You know, actually, I was, Pac-Man Jones was on their team. I love that, dude. Have you been to, have you, have you been to, Have you been to a bingles game like at the stadium?

I've never been to the stadium. So we went to two games this year. We went to Monday night football when they played the Rams. And then we went to the Vikings game towards the end of the season. And I've been to a million bingles games. And almost every time I've been to a bingles game, the team sucked. So I didn't have a whole lot to root for. But this year, even though we weren't great this year because Joe Burrow got injured.

Boy, I tell you what, man, it was a blast. Like I had so much fun going to bingles games this year. So like next year, we're going to get some tickets. I think you got to go down and catch a bingles game because your opinion will change when you've actually been there and you see it in the jungle. It's awesome.

It's amazing. I mean, I've been to football games. I've been to a Steelers game. I went to a Broncos game. You know, it's cool. But, you know, I'm just not big enough football fan to really want to be there for that whole time in the cold. You know, if it's a nice day, like I'm cool.

Yeah, dude, you got to go. We went, when we went to the Monday night football game, it was in September. So it was gorgeous weather. It was a nighttime, too. You didn't have to deal with the sun out or anything. It was gorgeous. Yeah, I can deal with that.

But so much of the, when I went to the Steelers game, it was in New York. They played the Jets. And it was, you know, fucking Blizzard, man. I was like, what am I doing out here? Yeah, that's not fun. That's not good at all. So, yeah, we'll get you. We'll figure it out, man.

You need football. I'm your guy. I can educate you on anything football related. I know football backwards and forward. So I can always help out there. I know all I need to know. I'm going to get you to a game dude let me get you to a game

get you on the field down there and you meet Joe Burrow and you'll be a fan for life man I'm a fan of that dude for life I'd lay down in traffic for that dude so I'm a fan of all the teams but there's certain ones I like more than others like I'm I'm kind of

acquaintances with Chase Young so I got to cheer for the 49ers you know I'm kind of you know hung out with the bingles so I got cheer for the bingles you know you got some different friends here in there around the league, you know, so you got to kind of cheer for them. But overall, I just, I like to put about 10 bucks on a game and so I got somebody to cheer for it.

The toughest day for me was a couple years ago when the UFC was doing their 20th anniversary thing and I went up to Cleveland and I went to the Cleveland Clinic with Steepay and Jessica I and Matt Hughes and his bunch of people. It's like, you know, we were touring things and they took us to the Browns facility and we were like, it was cool to go to the facility. Like we were in all like the workout rooms, the meeting rooms, and, like, we got to meet the team. And one of the team guys, this is before, like, the current regime, but they were just, like, you know, Steve A and Jessica I are huge Browns fans. They're from Cleveland.

So they're, like, way into it. And I was kind of standing back a little bit. And they're like, oh, don't you want to, like, get involved here? And it was like, and one of the guys, one of the Browns players was like, said something like, oh, so, you know, are you a fan? You're from Ohio, right? And I was like, yeah, I'm from Cincinnati. And he's like, oh, he's like, are you a Bengals fan?

I was like, who day? He just kind of looked at me. I was like, I don't back down my fandom just because I'm in your fucking house right now, buddy. Sorry, I'm all about the Bengals. It was hilarious. They were just joking with me, but it was pretty funny. He's like, are you not a fan? I was like, oh, I'm a fan.

Who day? Well, see, that's the part that, okay, we'll listen on this. You got to explain to me this part. Look, all you fans, you all pick one team, and then you stick with them. And if you end up switching teams, you're a bandwagoner. and this is some sort of disgrace to the NFL fan world. The goddamn players switch teams all the time, though. Oh, I don't begrudge anyone switching teams.

You can be a fan of whoever you want. I don't care about that. I just, I grew up a Bengals fan. I grew up in Cincinnati, so I've always been a Bengals fan. I've been with them through thick and thin. I've been through them through many years of them sucking terribly bad. So you are more of a fan of the Bengals than the own Bingles players. I'm a fan of the Cincinnati Bengals.

I've supported them through thick and thin. Now, I will say sometimes when players have left, like I still root for Ohio State players when they go to the NFL. Like I was rooting in the playoffs for CJ Schaub, the former Ohio State quarterback. I met him. I went down to Ohio State a couple years ago with Brendan Schaub, actually, and met a bunch of the Ohio State players,

and I got to go to their practice and hang out with them. And I still root for all the Ohio State players in the NFL because they played Ohio State, even though they're not playing for the baseball. Bingles, like they play for other teams. So, yeah, I don't, I don't care. I'm not that, I'm not that obsessive. Like, people can root forever they want to root for.

Like, I'm just a Bingles fan, but that's okay. You can be whoever you want to root for, but I think I can turn you. I think, I think I get you out to a Bingles game with me, Matt. You might turn a little bit more into a Bingles fan. Yeah, I mean, I say I'm a Bingles fan, but I'm a fan of many other teams. Yeah. Get you to meet Joe Burrow, hang out with Joe Shistie and get you guys become buddies. And then I'll, I'll glom on to you more for that.

I'm cool with that. Who does O'Dell Beckham play for now? He plays for the Ravens. He just got eliminated yesterday. Oh, okay, okay. So, yeah, so my old strength coach trains him. So he wanted to learn some inmate stuff. So I was supposed to get to train with them a little bit. Oh, nice. Yeah, so I got to root for him a little bit. You know, if I knew he was on the Ravens, I would have been cheering for them yesterday. But I had to cheer for the chiefs because of Tatee. Are you going to have to get your daughter

A Travis Kelsey jersey for Christmas? Good call. She'd like that. See? Look at me. See? Look at you playing favorites. See?

You buy a football. Get your daughter in a football jersey. She didn't even know how much she's supporting football. You get her in Travis Kelsey jersey. She'd love that. She would absolutely love that. All right. We're going to get out of here.

We'll obviously be back next week. We might talk more about Taylor Swift. You never know what we're going to talk about on this show. how we ended up on that subject. I'm trying to remember, but I have no idea. So, yeah, we'll be back next week. We're getting back in the thick of the fight schedule. This weekend, of course, we got Roman DeLise

fighting Nasrede and Mavov and Hanata Moikano against your boy Drew Dover. That's going to be a great fight this weekend. And then next weekend, we'll roll into another card with Jack Hermanson and Joe Pfeer. And then we get into the big ones with UFC 298, Volcanowski Toporius. We'll have that to break down the next couple weeks as well.

Matt, where can people check you out, support you as always? Oh, at the immortal Twitter and Instagram at the immortal coffee. And check out my gummies, my creatine gummies at try underscore create. And check out the Redwood Outdoor Sonas. Absolutely. And obviously we appreciate everyone that tunes into the show. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms on Apple, Spotify. And of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.

For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week with another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.