MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Mark Zuckerberg vs. Elon Musk Fight, Names His Mount Rushmore of MMA

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the proposed fight between billionaires Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, which UFC president Dana White is already touting as potentially the biggest matchup in combat sports history. But is there a chance this fight actually happens? Brown offers his opinion on Zuckerberg and Musk battling it out in the octagon and how this gimmick fight differs so much from past fighters like Sean Gannon or even CM Punk getting an opportunity in the UFC with very little background in MMA. We’ll also discuss the fabled Mount Rushmore of MMA and discuss if that list should be based on talent and accomplishment or fame and notoriety when it comes to impact in the sport. Plus we’ll start looking ahead at UFC 290 and talk about Ilia Topuria’s win over Josh Emmett at UFC Jacksonville. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. Matt, what's going on?

Everything's going on. Fucking great day, man. Sun's shining, well, the wind, rain. whatever. I've got to work in and that's a good fun. Did a lot of work today. So it's a good day to be alive.

Yeah. I saw we had like tornado warnings here in Ohio like earlier today. I was like, oh, that's fantastic. It's always fun to hear. What was it? Tornadoes? Yeah, tornado warnings.

I didn't see it. I don't know if they were actually in there, but they had said tornado warnings with like the weather outside. I was like, oh, that's always fun. Yeah, that's Midwest for you, bro. That's a guaranteed part of life there. I think we get, must get the worst fucking weather.

anywhere. It's so. We get snowstorms, blizzards, hail, sleet, tornadoes, like blistering heat. Like we must have the worst weather next to anywhere. Even like Alaska, like that is so cold all the time, but it's just cold all the time. It's funny. I always tell I always tell people if you don't like the weather in Ohio, just wait until tomorrow. It'll be completely different.

Like that's the thing about Ohio. I did we had like it was the middle of June. What was it last week? And it was like freaking 52 degrees. Like it dropped down like dramatically colder. And it was like rain. And it was like what the hell's going on over here? And then like it back up to this week.

It was like 90 again, 85 again. I was like what the hell's going? Like that's Ohio weather. Yeah, see, I take that same quote. I say if you don't like today's Ohio weather, don't worry. It'll suck worse tomorrow. That's why I always laugh when like I talked to friends who live in Vegas or whatever. And they're like, oh man, it's so cold out here right now, man.

I had you get out the winter coat. It's like, it's like 60. I'm like, fuck you, 62. I was like, what are you 62? That's balmy in the winter in Ohio. Yeah, no shit, right? It is a different eating, though, with a guy,

but yeah. Yeah, I think that too. When people, when people leave, yeah, when people leave here and then move other places, that's when they start talking about. Like, oh, man, it's so cold or it's so hot here. And I'm like, dude, do you not remember what it was like here in the Midwest?

Like, trust me. It's way worse here, I promise you. Yeah, but it's a fucking weather. Who cares? You know, that's some pussy shit. I hate when people whine about the weather. That's true. That's true.

I only whine about it to winter. I don't care about the summer. Right, when you're around someone fucking complaining about the weather, you're like, bro, what the fuck up? Like, I got to deal with it. You got to deal with it. If you don't like it,

fucking move somewhere else. That's true. That's a good point. Yeah. So you were traveling this weekend. You were on the road. No, it's fine. I hate it.

I only bitch you can play during the winter. Trust me. During the winter, I bitch you complain only because I'm like getting, I'm so over the cold. I don't care about the hot. Hot doesn't bother me. We do the podcast on Zoom. Move somewhere else, David. That's true.

That's true. I could do that. I could do that. You don't have kids. No, that's true. I don't. Although the housing market ain't exactly great right now to move anywhere. So unless you're, unless you're walking around with Mark Zuckerberg money,

and we'll talk about Mark Zuckerberg today. Unless you're walking around that kind of money, you ain't moving anywhere right now. unless you go to maybe I don't know Oklahoma yeah I'll stay in Ohio Nebraska Kansas I'll stay in Ohio

yeah I'll stay in Ohio yeah I'll stay in Ohio you went to you went to Michigan this weekend how was Michigan Michigan was awesome man I went to a great gym up there Black Lion Jiu Tzu where you had a great time

with those guys man teaching them so well they ended up we ended up doing a whole slew of different things some little bit of moitai a little bit of grappling, some takedowns, and we went through the whole gambit of things. So we had a lot of fun. Really, really, really good guys up there.

Unfortunately, I had to come right back. It was crazy because I actually felt like I was getting deathly sick. I almost called it off. And because the night before I was supposed to go up there, I woke up in cold sweats with, you know, shivering, freezing cold. I had my bathrobe on, had the two blankets on, and I got a pile of sweat in the bed.

And I said, dude, I'm about to be dead. deathly fucking sick. I got, you know, COVID-23 or whatever kind of bullshit's out there these days. And it's funny. I woke up next day and I felt perfectly fine. So. Hey, worked out for you. Yeah, I don't know how. But it fucking went right through me, man. Might be like Wolverine or something these days. Did you run into Jamal Hill while you were there? The fights in Vegas. Was it Vegas where the fights were?

Where were they this past week? They were in Jacksonville. Yeah. Yeah, he was at the fight, so he wasn't there. But yeah, we're going to train sometime, man. He's a cool dude. I like him. Yeah, it's tough, dude.

I like Jamal Hill. I've never actually, one of the weird random fighters who never actually interviewed or anything, but he always seems like a good dude and obviously a ferocious fighter. So, yeah, it'd be fun. Seems like a good dude to have a round to train with. You know, I mean, big guy, power, you know,

lots of good stuff from that guy. So, yeah, he's on quite a run right now. And, yeah, what a crazy division he's in right now. all right with yon and yri like i don't know who's going to fight it makes it uh for a pretty interesting uh little division but eric alex perere coming up now um glover i guess glover retired right yeah glover retired alex is there now fighting yon blovich in uh in july which is a really super interesting fight like dude i love that fight and i love that uh Alex is taking that shot at

although you know dude like i said man like heavyweight power is different you know i mean we saw, I mean, that's a big difference in weight, 20 pounds. Like, I've always, I've always marveled when guys can go from middleweight to light heavyweight, you know, potentially bigger. But when you go from light heavyweight to middleweight to light heavyweight, like, that's a pretty big jump. Like, 20 pounds is pretty significant. Like, a lot of guys who fight a light heavyweight couldn't fathom fighting a middleweight,

you know what I mean? So, like Luke Rockhold tried it, didn't work out well for him. Adasanya tried it. It didn't work out well for him. So, yeah, it's a different animal. I think Pereira is built for light heavyweight. I think he actually probably hurt himself maybe going to middle wakes. He cut so much weight.

But I don't know, man, there's no guarantees, dude. Yombollah is a monster. He might get a takedown and Alex Praer didn't get up again. Which is a great point, man. You know, when are we going to make the weight classes? A jumps in between, you know, I don't know, 20 years ago, like 100 years in the UFC. But it was something like 600 fighters in the, like so many people

in the UFC all the time, right? their roster's expanding all the time. Like, can we just have more weight classes? Yeah, I was wondering. Like, I would have a 175. I cut down to 175 and I'm perfectly fine. Everything's happy. I get to like 73, 72 and I'm fucking miserable.

Yeah, you're not the only one. And I know there's a lot of guys just like that. Yeah. You know, ultimately when it comes down to it is Dana. Dana White doesn't want it. He said it numerous times like it'll never happen. But I get it to a certain extent for some weight classes because light heavyweight is not real deep. And heavyweight's not super deep either.

So like when you start creating extra weight classes, you're really thinning things out in terms of like actually having like legit contenders. Because guys like, like you could argue they're like a heavyweight and a super heavyweight division. Like guys like Steepay are going to be at the heavyweight division. They're not going to be 275, 280. So you're going to get like the good Derek Lewis is the world to be the really bigger guys. but I think some of the smaller weight classes, like when they talked about forever doing a 165 division, like there's enough guys that lightweight,

well-to-weight around that weight that you could do a couple divisions. I think it just depends on the weight class. Like, I think the higher you go, the harder it gets, the lighter you go, you could eat. Like imagine if they had a, like if they do 125, 135, 135, 145,

155, 165, 175, 175, 175, 175. Like, I think that would make a lot of sense, 185, and then maybe you do jump to 205 because, you know, I don't know there's enough fighters for 195. See, I mean, I think it's possible. I think you can, but I think it's, I think where it falls apart is the higher weight classes. Like, once you get to 1.85, you might have to stop.

Like, that might be the limit where you could like split the weight classes anymore. But I think like 155, 165, 175, 175, that's possible. Yeah, it makes a lot more sense, doesn't it? It does. And those are deeper divisions, right? Like, those are deep enough to where you're not really going to thin them out that much. That's always day and his argument. You're going to thin out the divisions too much.

I think you're only going to thin them out at the heavier weight class. If you stop at 185 and you don't do it anymore at that point, you do 185, 205 and heavyweight, I think you'd be okay. I think at 155 is going to be fine, 165 would be good, 170. Because there are guys at 170 who are not probably big 170-pounders. They can fight at 165, and then you look at 170 to 185, guys who are kind of in between who can fight at 175 like yourself. So, yeah, I think it's possible, and I don't think you're going to lose a ton with that.

but that's always Dana's argument is like you just thin out the divisions too much and I I I disagree for the lower weight class the higher weight classes I agree you're not going it's gonna be hard to like create a 195 pound weight class like there's just not enough fighters now I thought his argument was always there was too many belts that that too that that too I mean that's that's also part of it yeah yeah like he was worried about boxing where there's like so many belts and guys would you know move weight classes just because there's an easier belt at this weight class or whatever but I don't see that being the case, especially being like the problem thing is, is too many belts isn't because of the weight classes, it's because of the organizations, right? There's the WBC, IBI, you know, there's lower ones like in ABF and stuff.

You know, there's an IBC. There's all these different organizations and different belts. The UFC is the UFC. Yeah. You know, like you're going to be adding, like, what, more belts at most. I mean, I think there are, I agree there's too many, like the organizations are the bigger problem in boxing, because I can't keep them all straight, dude. Like, there's WBA, WBC, I bF, like, I don't even know what they are.

I will say, though, I will say, I think there are a little bit, I think there are a few too many weight classes in boxing because, like, I was doing a story on Regis Pagraeus, who fought recently, and I was looking up his titles, I had interviewed him, and I was like, he was, I want to say, like, Welterway, then he was light, welterweight, and his junior, it was all these different. like all these welterways that I'd lost track. I was like, man, there's like nine different weight classes in like eight fights. So I think that, like they get, because they do go pretty small, like in boxing, where it's down to like five pound differences in boxing a lot of times, where it's like 170 to 175, 180. I think that does muddy the waters and it's made worse when you have 19 titles out there. The alphabet tatters are the worst.

Like that's worse than the weight classes. I agree. But when you mix the two together, then it gets really, it's like all sorts of fuckery. Then it's just like you're at light middleweight at W. You're in middleweight at WBA. You're in light middleweight. You know, it's just all the, like, I think it's kind of like a mix. Yeah, and that's where it gets.

Oh, God, damn. Technology. Well, why did my video stop? Can you see me? Yeah, I can see you. Oh, I can't see you. That's weird. All right, whatever.

But I think that's where it gets, yeah, that's where it gets mixed up a little bit, too. And when you talk about, you start looking like, who, better than who's who, right? Because, okay, well, this guy won four belts and four weight classes. Okay, but this guy won like two undisputed belts and two weight classes. You know, it gets really complicated, man. I had this argument a little bit recently on Twitter when I posted that Floyd Mayweather is not the greatest at all, not even close of all time. Yeah.

And everybody started breaking out all these different stats. And originally, I kind of fucked up because I made it like pack you. versus Mayweather and I you know and I think it's very very close and mayweather probably has a slight edge over Pacquiao in that especially being that he beat him so that's you know that kind of ends that argument but you know it just gets very convoluted when you start or diluted I should say when you when you start you know comparing all the records and and then who they fought how many belts that guy had we fought and then what were his belts and you know okay well who do you get that belt from you know I mean it just gets

is so complex. It does. I'm with you. Floyd made way it's great. It was a great boxer, but he's not the greatest of all time. I wouldn't put him up there like that. Like that's like,

it's like, dude, I had a massive amount of people saying that he's the greatest of all time and arguing very strongly for that. And I was blown away. I didn't, I didn't think that that many people actually believe that. Yeah.

I mean, don't get me wrong. Great, great record, a lot of good wins. I mean, very good fighter. So certainly take it nothing away from him, but I wouldn't put him in number one.

That's like people who argue, like they used to argue. They don't do it much anymore. It seems like people kind of came around on like reality on that one. For the longest time, you get people who'd argue Mike Tyson is the greatest heavyweight or one of the greatest heavyweight. And I'm like, no, he was a great power punch or incredible knockouts. Dude, his knockouts are like some of the greatest knockouts in history. But, you know, he doesn't have the resume.

He doesn't even have the resume to go up against, you know, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, who were in his era. Like, those guys had better resumes than he did. overall, you know what I mean? Like, you can't sit there and say, like, I don't get me wrong. It's not a knock on Tyson. And I think people kind of slowed down on that. And in recent years, people kind of come around and said, yeah, like, he was good.

He had his moment, but he wasn't one of the greatest. But, like, there was a long, you know what I'm talking about. There was a while there where people like, Tyson is one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. Like, slow down on that one. Yeah. Well, they were saying that, you know, when he was young and it just never ended, right? Because he had probably the greatest potential to be the greatest, right?

And then the whole thing is, well, Costumato didn't die. Well, we don't know what would have happened because Sumato didn't die. Right. So, you know, and you're not going to say someone's the greatest based off of hypotheticals. And with Floyd McIther, I say it all the time. He was the most successful boxer, most successful combat athlete, maybe most successful athlete of all time. That does not make you the best of all time. Yeah.

Yeah. And also it's harder to gauge in boxing because boxing has such a different history, too. Like, it goes back. So that's why I said, like, it's not easier to argue about MMA, you know, the greatest of all time. But really, we're talking about a body of work of 20 years, more or less. I mean, and I don't mean to disrespect guys like Hoyst Gracie, but Hoyst Gracie fought at a time when it wasn't really, you know, it wasn't truly mixed martial arts. Like, guys, he was fighting guys who had never heard of Jiu-Jitsu, much less knew what they were doing in Jiu-Jitsu.

So, like, I think once you get to, like, the Frank Shamrocks, the Tito Ortiz is like that era, that's when guys could do it all. They could wrestle. They could grapple. They actually new jihadist or things like that. And we're talking about, like, a 20-year timeline, 25 years. Like, that's not very much time, really. You know what I mean? But boxing goes back 100 years.

Like, that's a long-ass time to, like, think about, like, you know, when you go back to, like, Sugar Ray Robinson and, you know, all these guys, like, all the way back there, like, all the way back. Rocky Marciano, you talk about all those guys, then you're comparing them to, like, today's modern boxers. Like, it's just a big, huge. wide history. It's like baseball is the same thing. Like I don't really watch baseball, but I know that like you talk about Babe Ruth. Like there's a name everyone knows in baseball, but can you compare them to a guy playing today? It's just a harder argument to make. But in MMA, it's, we're talking to 25 years basically.

Really 20, 25 years of history is not that much. Yeah. And when you look at like the evolution of the sport, you know, like you said, back then they didn't know what jih Tijuana was. And then they didn't know how dominant wrestling could be. They didn't know, you know, real, like, what it worked, like, what was going to work, what wasn't going to work. In boxing, like, they've only used two weapons the whole time. You know what I mean? So it was essentially the same sport, but the difference in the air is there is backed in.

Like, they would fight, you know, two or three times a month sometimes, right? They would constantly fight, like, they would fight the same guy five times in a row. And, like, you know, to beat a guy five times in a row is, that's it. know as a formidable opponent is a serious feat you know what i mean yeah and what they go they they used to go like 20 rounds too they used to like 20 like insane rounds too like they didn't go they didn't go 12 rounds they went like 20 to 40 rounds like crazy rounds yeah yeah what's the name but jack johnson went uh carried a guy um i try to remember exactly who it was but he carried him like 20 something rounds it was supposed he wanted to carry them all 40 rounds because he wanted

to just punish the guy and he ended up quitting crazy could you imagine that day 40 round fights that's insane yeah exactly man and you know that's why i put like jack johnson up there is one of the greatest if you know his story man like you know anybody that doesn't know a story should go ahead read it he has one of the best stories ever i don't know how there's not tons of movies about him i don't know how he's not one of the most famous figures in pop culture i mean his story is just absolutely fascinating you know when you're talking about a guy who had to get on trains and, you know, or live on trains just so he could go get matches, you know, that's a different kind of beast than these, you know, dorks that just

sign up and, and go fight at the local fucking Amvets club or some shit. Yeah, absolutely. So who is, so let me ask you two questions then. Who is, who is your greatest boxer in all time and who is your greatest modern boxer from all time? When I say greatest modern, I'm talking like the last, like, 30 years, like, of that era back to, like, 1990. the last like 30 years, who's the greatest and who's your greatest boxer of all time?

In your opinion? I don't think there's any question from any boxing guy that knows what they're talking about. The Sugar Ray Robinson is almost untouchable on the greatest of all time. You know, I just, I don't think you can't even touch you. Again, in that era, the amount that they fought and what he did. You know, he went on a 73, I think, fight winning streak. you know he went like as like 45 or 46 and no lost and then he won like 70 something fights in a row and you know what I mean it's like no one's going to do that these days you know and that's just a fact

in the modern era you know to be honest I've never been sat down and thought about that that's actually a really good question and I was certainly put Floyd up there in the modern era you know he's got to be a top two or three I would really have to think about that though. You know, I know my favorite is Roberto Duran. Yeah. You know, so I would probably have a lot of bias towards pushing him towards the top.

But, man, there's so many names that pop in my head as soon as you start thinking about that. And I think there's definitely an argument to be made for Floyd in that. Yeah. I think I'd have to actually look at it and think about it a little bit. I think that's where you make the argument for Floyd, right? Like when you say like the last 30 years or whatever, then you can say Floyd's got a real argument there, right?

Like he's got a legitimate argument at the top spot there. But when you start mixing in all the all-time stuff, like even people, listen to, Muhammad Ali is one of the most, you know, monumental boxers of all time in terms of cultural significance. There's no one bigger. But in terms of just what he did in the division, like people will say like he's still not the greatest heavyweight box from all time.

Incredible, absolutely. In his day, absolutely. but Muhammad Ali was one of those guys that just transcended Transcended boxing. Like he was bigger than boxing. Like he was a bigger name than boxing itself at the time. That's what Muhammad Ali was. Was he also a great fighter?

Absolutely. He was an incredible fighter. But I think most people, most boxing historians, would say that there were better heavyweight boxers than Muhammad Ali. But he was culturally, no one's bigger. But in terms of skills, talent, accomplishment, there were heavyweights that did more than Muhammad Ali. Yeah, I would put Muhammad in probably the top five greatest heavyweights, in my opinion.

But, you know, it's hard to, you know, it's just like Sugar Ray Robinson. Like, it's hard to find anyone that you're going to put over Joe Lewis when you talk about the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time. You know, there's a different era. You know, but again, you can look at like the different eras and say like the greatest modern era boxer. But just from the time that those guys come from, the way they fought, the amount of times they fought, and their willingness to fight anybody and everybody all the time. Yeah, it's really difficult to argue against those, like Joe Lewis being the number one. Yeah, my favorite, like my favorite heavyweight to ever watch, we were always surprised when I say this.

My favorite heavyweight to ever watch was Lennox Lewis. I loved Linux Lewis, dude. I was a huge minute. Yeah. Because he was, he was, like he was around, like he was big when I was growing up because I remember like he was coming. like he was coming up and I remember the fight with Tyson and then I remember obviously the Hossi Mawken rivalry that lasted

you had two fights. He got the upset and then he came back and beat him. You know, the clitch goes, I always loved Lennox Lewis, dude. I was like the guys who don't get talked about as much. Like when you think about his resume, like the way he pieced up people during his day like, dude, Lennox Lewis had a hell of a career. Yeah, I mean, he has a strong argument

for the greatest modern heavyweight boxer for sure. I mean, but to be, to really enjoy watching his I'm very surprised at that because he wasn't an exciting fighter by any means. I just always liked why. I don't know. There's just something about him. I liked watching.

I think part of it came from because he was always kind of like the underdog in a way. Like people just kind of underrated him because he wasn't the loudest guy in the room. He wasn't the guy, you know. I mean, we know a lot of like loudmouthed boxers, how it works and mixed martial artists, for that matter. He was never that dude. He just went out there and beat the brakes off you. And I just appreciated something about that with that guy. And I just always like watching a fight.

And also, like, he fought a lot of really good guys, too, during his era. Like, you know, he fought Tyson. He fought Holyfield. He fought Klitschko. Like, he fought a lot of good guys. Like, he just kind of slipped under the radar because he wasn't the loudest dude in the room. Now, here's a hypothetical question for you. Fury versus Lennox Lewis.

Who, man. On their best nights, on their absolute best nights. Yeah, man, of course, hypothetical. I think Linux Lewis. I think Lennox Lewis. I think he was a better overall. technical boxer plus he did have power kind of like kind of a little bit like Fury where you know he'll pitterpatter you for a while

and then he'll knock you out but I think skill wise Linux was just a little bit higher in my opinion I think I think Tyson Fury is amazing but I would but I would put Linux just slightly ahead of him I actually agree with you and mainly because the the number one comparable that we have to that is Fury's fights with Yante Wilder and his and Lewis is built a lot like Wilder, but a far better boxer. Yeah. And Wilder touched him up a lot in that first fight. Yeah.

Linux was so good technically. Like that was the thing. He was so good. Like that was the big difference between Linux and everyone of this area. It's like in terms of technical boxing, like he was just leaps and bounds ahead of so many people. That's also why I think Tyson Fury is so good right now is because he's so much technically better than most of the other heavyweights out there. But you're right. He got touched up a little bit by Deonti Wilder.

He couldn't play that game with Linux Lewis, not over 12 rounds. Like, it just would not end well. So, yeah, I would lean Linux. As I said, of this era, like, I would argue Linux Lewis may be the best heavyweight of the modern era. Yeah, I think that's a pretty good argument to make right there, to be honest. Again, I've never thought about modern era versus the old era. So, you know, that's kind of things I would have to sit down and kind of think about, you know. Well, it's true, though, because we have time or do that.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's just like I said, we talked about like with MMA. Like, you know, people say, oh, you're disrespecting. Like, when they talk about, like, the, everyone says, make your Mount Rushmore of MMA. And, like, I always make mine. I rarely ever put a guy like Hoyce Gracie on there. And, like, how can you disrespect Hoyce? And I'm like, Hoyt is a legend. You know, him doing what he did is what got me into mixed martial arts.

When I saw this little scrawny Brazilian kid tapping out dudes who were like twice his size. And I was like, what is this? But I'm just saying, like, in terms of like, you know, overall talent, accomplishment, like what he did was amazing, but I would say there are guys who have done and accomplished more, you know, since then. Like, is he, is he an icon? Is he an all-time legend? Of course, West Gracie's a legend, but I just wouldn't put him in this, I wouldn't put him in the same breath as John Jones. Like John Jones, what he does is everything. He does everything. He does, he is like the most complete mixed martial arts along, like maybe George St. Pierre of all

time. Demetrius Johnson, like that, you know what I mean? Like, like, how could, like, talent-wise, how could you put Demetrius next to Hoyce? Like, great. I mean, don't get me wrong. Hoise the legend, but come on now, are we being like, if you're being honest in terms of like overall talent, Demetrius and Hoyce. Yeah, so I guess it depends on how you are going to define the people that you're putting on your Mount Rushmore, right? Are those the icons? Because if it's going to be iconic, then you certainly have to put. Oh, yeah. Hoist up there, right? Like, there's no question. If you're looking, okay, we're going to put the

four most talented fighters in history, I mean, Hoyst wouldn't be anywhere near. But you know, so I think is how you define, you know, what's your Mount Rushmore, right? I don't know, I don't even know who's on our Mount Rushmore or presidents, but, you know, are they, are they the four best presidents in history or are they, you know, the four most iconic, you know? Yeah, I define it as, I define it as like talent and accomplishments. You know what I mean? Like, it's talent and accomplishments. And for me, it's like John Jones, George St. Pierre. I don't know if I had to think about Anderson Silva.

And then, you know, who's the fourth? I'm just throwing out ideas here. Like, fourth one would be, I don't know. Fador, maybe like that. Like, you know, I mean, like something like that. You know, like maybe those four, I guess. I don't know. I'm just throwing out ideas.

But that was because, like, when you think about accomplishment, like, also they did great things. Like, it's not just talent. Like, talent-wise is George St. Pierre. To me, talent-wise is George St. Pierre, John Joe's Demetre's Demetri's Johnson. Problem Demetrius runs into us. I think that he didn't fight, he didn't fight the deepest time of the flyway division in the UFC. I wish Demetrius was still around because oh my God, but I'd love to see him fight Brandon Marino and Devis and Figurado

and some of the guys who've come up now. And don't get me wrong, what he's doing in one championship is awesome because he's fighting really basically up a weight class. But yeah, I just, I can't quite put him in the same, just in terms of accomplishment. I can't put him quite at the same level as John or GSP. I don't know, man, that's a tough one. Like I said, talent-wise, Demetrius is his top three.

talent-wise, it's Demetri's John Jones and George St. Pierre. Like, those are the three for me. Like, talent-wise, most talented, mixed martial artists ever. John Jones, George St. Pierre, Demetrius Johnson. So on my round Rushmore, I got to go with the icons, and I don't think any of it, any Mount Rushmore would be proper without hoist and Sakaraba. You got to have the two. The rest of the other two, I don't even care.

I just want to waste of Sakarava. My Mount Rushmore's got the other fuck. There's, it's, I remember, you remember a couple years ago, a couple of years ago, Sakaraba got inducted in the UFC Hall of Fame, and I got to interview Sakaraba, and I was like, dude, the biggest fanboy ever when I got to interview him. And there's so many people that were like, who is Sakarab, and I'm like, oh, my God. I was like, you're hurt my brain right now saying, who is Sakaraba?

How do you not know Sakaraba? You know what? And even thinking about it, I think it's hard to not put Rhonda and Connor up there, too. I'm talking, if you're talking, like, if you're talking iconic, yeah, I mean. Iconic, that's it. Ironic Mountaine. Or, you know, Hoy, Sakaraba, Connor, and Rhonda. I mean, when you think about the way they built, like, the way that they brought in a fan base,

there's nobody bigger than Rhonda and Connor. I mean, the modern era, like, you know what I mean? like they were they transcended like we talked about transcendent like Mohammed Ali like in terms of like crossover Rhonda people were people were I mean there was like a two-year stretch there where Rhonda was arguably the biggest star in sports like you could argue she was the biggest star in all of sports and Connor right there too and then Connor kind of exceeded her because his star power stayed around longer Rhonda was I use the word flash in the pan I don't mean like that but hers was just a

shorter rain like hers was like two and a half maybe three years where she was just it and Connor, like you could argue up to like even up to the Floyd fight for that like five-year stretch, he was the man. Like Connor was, and he still is. I mean, he's still the biggest star in the sport by a wide margin. Yeah, that's exactly. Like those four change the game in their whatever way. You know what I mean, in all their own unique ways.

They change the fucking game completely. Yeah, so I don't see how you can, you know, again, it depends if you're talking about talented versus iconic for your Mount Rushmore. Those, to me, it's more of an iconic thing. Yeah. You know, like, because when I look at our Mount Rushmore and I look at our presidents, I don't even know what the fuck they did,

except Abraham Lincoln. Yeah. I think he's on Mount Rushmore, right? I believe so. You're putting me on the spot here. You're making me prove my own lack of American history knowledge here. I think is George Washington on there? I think so.

I think it's him. I think it's Roosevelt, Washington, Lincoln. and God. I don't know what, I don't know what Roosevelt ever did, right? So, but, yeah, if you look at like, like, Lincoln and, and, and George Washington,

like, there's your Sakaraba and your hoist Gracie. It's Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt, and Lincoln. So Jefferson was a one I forgot. Thomas Jefferson was one I forgot, so. Yeah, so he did some cool shit, I guess. But, like, we told the greatest, like, you just said that, like,

when I thought about that, I think I'd have to put my four, if I was just doing greatest, it would be John Jones, George, St. Pierre, Anderson, Sullivan, probably Amanda Nunes. Like, when you think about what she did in the last few years, like, my God, she'd beat everybody. Like, in terms of accomplishment, she beat everybody. So Amanda Nunes probably deserves to be on that list, too.

But in terms of iconic, it's Ronda Rousey. Like, she was the biggest star in the world. I mean, by a wide margin, she was the biggest star. Yeah, yeah. So I think we have two good Mount Rushmore's now. So now we're going to have our A-headed Mount Rushmore. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too.

That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old. Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes, because those are groceries, and we deliver those

too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Yeah, so now, here's the question, Matt. Here's the real cute question.

Talk about tough questions. At what point does Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg make the fighter, iconic fighter, Mount Rushmore These two These two ferocious athletes Are talking about fighting each other Boy, I tell you what There's your Mount Rushmore fight right there

Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk I thought you'd be way more pumped Being the nerd that you are Damon I'm not I'm not listen It's it's funny to me You have a website called nerd court I do

I do But it's it's nerdy like you know Marvel comics and horror movies not you know I'm deep into like writing code for Facebook That's a different kind of nerd I'm a different I'm a different kind of nerd than that Yeah Zuckerberg and Musk they're gonna fight they're gonna fight Are they actually gonna fight I mean I don't the dude Dana White's eyes lit up like like scrooge McDuck in And the old ducktails cartoons was like dollar signs just popping out of his eyeballs. Mine did too.

I was like, dude, I'll put on the fight for you guys. Come on. Columbus, Ohio. I'll put a cage up. Like, let's do this. Yeah, these motherfuckers, they're going to bite. What are you talking about? Man, everybody talks that shit.

We're talking about it. We're talking about them right now. Twitter's talking about them. We're forgetting about all the fucking garbage bullshit that they've done in their lives. I don't even know. what they've done. Like, I just know, like, they got a lot of haters. So, but. Everybody, they're like, hey, why don't you quit talking shit about me buying Twitter? Because I'm going to go cage fight. And everybody's like, oh, okay. No problem, bro.

You know, that's how these motherfuckers operate, right? It's a PR fucking scandal. Come on. But I want, I'm asking the MMA community to be more intelligent than this. Can we see through this? These guys, like, what the fuck makes you think they're going to fucking step in a cage and fight each other? And if they do, yes, I'll fucking watch it. You'll fucking watch it. Well, I'll watch it. And we're going to, and you know we're going to vomit when we watch it. I'd be like, what the fuck did I just watch?

Why did I stay up till fucking midnight watching this? And we're going to hate ourselves for it. Do you remember how, and I mean this with the. most respect, but do you remember how low level it was watching CM Punk fight in the UFC? Like when we actually saw him fight, like when he actually fought Mickey Gall and when he fought Mike Jackson, we were like, dude, this guy just does not belong. And that's, you know what, dude, that's not a knot. I don't belong in the UFC either.

Trust me. I certainly don't. I know I don't. I've trained. I love the sport. I don't belong anywhere near that octagon. So I'm not trying to begrudge the guy for living out of his dream. But you and I know, like when he did that, we're like, my God, this is not good.

Like, this is not a good sight to see him in there. Dude, CM Punk would be the, the, the John Jones to Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk in terms of talent. Like, in terms of what he could do in there. Like, come on. Like, come on now. And also, these guys, you don't get to this level of fame and fortune without having a bit of an ego or a massive ego. Do you think either one of these guys wants to take the PR hit it would take to lose to the other one? If Mark Zuckerberg goes out there and chokes out Elon Musk, could you imagine just like the hit that would take on his brand?

Does that dude have the ego that would allow him to get choked out by another dude that he'd be like, oh, I'm cool with that. It's just competition. It really hurt his brand, though. I'm not saying hurt his brand. I'm saying hurt his ego. Like, they're egomaniacs. They have to be. Like, there's a certain level of ego.

There's a certain level of egotism that goes into being that guy, to being Elon Musk or being Mark Zuckerberg. Absolutely. Are they going to allow their ego to take that hit to get choked out on national television in front of billions of people? Is either one of them going to allow that to happen? Like, that's where I hit the pause button. It's not that, like, I don't think they do it for charity or all this. I think it all comes down to. It's ego, dude.

Neither one of these guys wants to go down losing to the other one. Okay. When we watch CM Punk lose to Mike Jackson, there's one thing to lose to Mickey Gall because, you know, we didn't really know much about them before, but come find out he's like a legit fucking fighter like he's a really good fighter I've trained with them since they were good friends he's a really really good fighter but mike jackson seampunk loses to mike jackson did anybody walk away from i said oh glad i watched that i imagine two guys they are not even as good as cm punk like cm punk would probably beat both of them oh he would i think he would i think he would i think you i think he would

demolish both of them like at worst he's still a natural athlete like he's still an natural athlete Like, you're still an athlete. Right, exactly. So, like, what interest, I don't get the interest in watching these guys fight. There's a million things I'd love to watch them do. Fly fucking spaceships. Fucking, you know, make shit on face. I don't know what Mark Zuckerberg does, but there's a million things that would be cool that they could do that everybody would watch.

Fighting, I guess everybody will probably watch. I'll probably watch. but I'm not interested in watching. I'll watch only because I'm sure every single friend of mine is going to be watching. I'm saying, hey, what are you guys doing this Saturday night? I'm watching the fucking stupid nerds fight.

Okay, well, I guess I'll be watching with you since I'm not where I'll sit at home by myself and miss out on it. Yeah, like here's where, here's what like, in terms of like my actual interest, like, dude, that is beyond low level of MMA. Like, let's be honest. Like that is the lowest possible level of MMA that you could put into a cage in the UFC.

Like it doesn't get – because Elon's like 51 or something or – and Mark Zuckerberg's like 39. Neither one of them really trained. Mark does train in Jiu-Zitsu. Like that – that's legitimate. And Elon, I think, trained in judo or something as a kid. But like, come on now. Like I trained as karate as a kid. I'm not going to go into World Combat League or World Karate League and try to go one-on-one-on-won-Won-Won-Win-W-Tompson.

I'm not doing it. I'm not stupid. So it's giving me the low – It's going to be the lowest level of MMA possible is what I'm getting at. You know, what the real question is, when you're talking about hurting brands, does that hurt the UFC's brand? I don't think so. I don't think so only because I think we've all transcended to the point now with this sport

where we understand, like, people, there are still people who are holding on to the vestige that this is just a pure sport, and it's not. It's never been. It's entertainment. It's sport, absolutely. Like, it's competition, absolutely. but it's still entertainment. Like we, like them bringing in Kimbo Slice,

then bringing in Sean Gannon, then bringing in CM Punk, them bringing in, you know, Brandon Lee Hinkle when he fought Sean Gannon in that fight, when they brought in CM Punk, when they brought in Kimbo, when they brought in James Tony,

yes, natural athlete, but come on now. Like he had no business being in the cage of Randy Couture. All those kind of, all those things are, all those things are just gimmick fights. Like they're all just meant to get people drummed up interest and people to buy pay-per-views.

it just goes away and we tune back in to watch you know Alexander Volcanowski be amazing or we watch you know Ilyop Teporia do what he did this past weekend or whatever so yeah I don't think they lose I don't think they lose anything and I think that's why Dana is immediately like ooh I'm interested because he sees the dollar signs he's not stupid like there's it's a freak show fight people are going to pay to watch it I know that but uh

when you talk about those gimmick fights all of those ones that you just mentioned they were little gimmicky But there was a potential of not being gimmicky, right? Like Kimbo had potential. C-N-Punk, we thought, might have potential. Like, there was a chance. You know what I'm saying? Like, every single one of these guys had that you just mentioned.

Like, there was a chance that they were going to, like, I mean, we know how good of a boxer James Tony is. You know, if Randy Couture went in there and just played complete dipshit and tried to stand with him, you know, he would have actually won. So, like, there is that chance. is a wild sport so there's always this chance with with these guys like it's literally just that gimmick fight yeah i mean it's only that and there's no there's there's no upside to either these guys as fighters beyond that yeah that's where to me it feels like it diminishes the brand

a little bit because it's like well if you do it now you know are we're going to keep doing it you know do you do it again and again and again and again and get all those guys you mentioned before as much as that they were they were like sort of gimmick fights i don't see those as like pure gimmick fights because like they were fighting real fighters on the other side yeah and and and they did have a chance yeah that's true no i do i do and i agree i agree i agree no i agree yeah and this is like this like i said it's the lowest level here's the only reason i'm not even trust me i'm the last person who's going to advocate for seeing this fight because it's going to be God awful.

Like, I'll tell you right now, it's going to be God awful. It's going to be the worst fight you've ever witnessed on that level of television. You've never seen a fight that bad. Because I remember watching when Celebrity Boxing got big, and they had like Tanya Harding fighting someone. I remember turning down on like Fox One Night and I was like, what the hell is this? And like it was the worst. Like, I've seen Tough Man contests that were far more tactical battles than those fights.

It's going to be bad. It's going to be awful. And it's good. I mean, it's just legitimately going to be just, shit is what it's going to be. And I agree, I agree with you. It's not going to happen. Come on now. Like I said, I think they're too big ego maniacs to ever, ever allow themselves to get in there under the risk that they could lose to the other guy. Like, there's a better chance of Mark Zuckerberg fighting like Joe Lozon because if he loses to Joe Lozon, like, of course you're going to

lose to Joe freaking Lozon. It's Joe Lozon. Like, you're not going to get near that guy. So you get tapped out in three, so you get tapped out in 45 seconds. People are going to say, well, yeah, you had no business being in there with Joe Lozon. You lose to Elon Musk, you get knocked up by Elon Musk, that you can't live that down. Like, that's not something you're just going to wave away and walk away from. People are going to mock you for that for the rest of your life. So their egos are never going to allow them to do it. Here's the one reason why I would say, like, if they do it, I would be interested in here's this.

Dana has said something to the effect, like it would be the biggest fight in history, and a lot of money would go to charity. Now, if they want to do it and donate all the money to charity, and it can't be their own charities. It can't be like the Elon Musk Foundation and the Mark Zuckerberg Foundation. got to be like legitimate charities like cancer charities or or you know whatever the make a wish foundation whatever it's got to be some legitimate charity they have no affiliation with and here's the other one the other caveat they're throwing there every fighter on the card from the co-main event down assuming you're going to do like an actual pay-per-view gets pay-per-view points you do that to where every fighter can make like every fighter on that car could legitimately stand to make

two three four million dollars dude i'm all for it put it on let's go i'll buy it tomorrow because all for the fighters. You guys want to make, put Matt Brown, Jim Miller's the co-main event. You guys both get a guaranteed $5 million payday? Dude, all for it. Co-main event to Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk. Let's go. But that's it.

That's the only way I have interest. If you're going to do it in that regard and the fighters are going to benefit and a charity, like a charity is legitimately going to get like $300 million or $100 million or whatever and you're going to really give that money to charity, go for it. I got no problem with it. But if it's just going to be some sideshow, like, you know, a normal UFC card, and everyone's going to benefit except, you know, the fighters who are fighting underneath them or whatever.

Like, dude, I have no interest because it's going to be, it would be the worst fight you've ever watched. It would be the absolute world. You've seen, you've seen bum fights that are better than that fight would be. Can I get on that card if that were? But, you know, that's what I'm saying. Wouldn't that be like, that would be where it would benefit, right?

Like, if they did that, they're like, hey, we're going to give every fighter on the undercard, pay-per-view points. If that happened, dude, sign me up tomorrow. I'll watch it tomorrow. I'll buy the pay-per-view. right now. Yeah, I mean, I'll even give it to the Matt Brown

Foundation. For charity, too, man. But you know what I'm saying? Like, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I didn't think of it that way. But that, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, yeah, honestly, if they do do it,

it shouldn't even be a real UFC card. You know, it should just be like, this is an event that the UFC is promoting at the apex or, you know, or wherever at. But it's just an event. Like, they have to put it on the side, like, you know, I don't know, man. Like, what fucking word are we living in, bro?

What kind of simulation is this? It's just, it's, I agree, it's not going to happen. It's fun to talk. It's not even fun to talk about. It's funny to talk about. And it's kind of, like, hilarious. Like, John Jones is like, I'll train Zuckerberg and GSP's, like, I'll trade Elon Musk.

And I'm like, this is, I agree. It's like a simulation. Like, what world are we living in? But let's be honest. they're not going to fight. Come on. Like, you know what I mean? Like, people like to talk a good game, but when it goes, like I said, I'm smart enough to know I'm not ever going to do it.

I would never want to do it. That's why I respect fighters so much because I know I can't do it. And I don't want to do it. I don't want to be a fighter. I love fighting, but I don't want to be a fighter. No, dude, come on. Now, I just don't think their egos would ever allow them to actually get in there. How much would it take you?

Yeah. How much would it take me to get? get it by Derek Lewis Derek Lewis give me a I don't know give me like 5 million

I'll do it would you do 10k no no dude you got to have millions you got to get millions to get me in there get knocked my head off no no no no

you got to talk like okay no no no not a chance not for 50K not a chance no shit not a chance you got money

damn bro I don't have money I don't have money like that but I got no money not to want to get my head knocked off in the middle

of a million people I don't I don't I don't choose to do that. And the brain damage I would take from one Derek Lewis punch who's more than 50 grand is going to buy me. 100K. Nope. And you get me in there for that.

Dude, it's still going to end in 40 seconds. And that 40 seconds is just as long as it takes him to chase me around the octagon until he punched him in the head. I can teach you to survive. You can just do fucking, you know, emanari rolls and wrestling shots. And until he finally gets on.

popped and then, you know, those punches won't hurt as bad. Dude, no. I don't have, I don't have an ego like Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg, but even I don't want to get, no, I don't want to get highlighted in front of millions of people. No, trust me. It's not worth it to me. But there's a number, like I said, like I always joke, I joke with Francis Ngano before. It's like, dude, someone wants pay me like $2 million, $5 million, whatever, to jump in there with Francis and Ganoo. I'll do it in the last five seconds, but, you know, one punch, eight seconds, $8 million, something. Sure, I'll take that. You know, that's worth it.

to me, but 50K, no, dude, I got other things I could do. I got other plans I can make. And I thought you'd be a 50K guy, but. No, definitely not. You can get a new Volkswagen for that, bro. That's true. You can't get a new Volkswagen. But here's the problem.

How am I going to drive it when I'm in a wheelchair? I just don't know how that's going to work out for me. So, you know, not. I've been knocked out. It ain't that bad. I've been knocked out. Being knocked out is not as bad. as people make it out to be.

It's embarrassing. That's the bad part. But you wake up and you're like, well, I don't know what happened. So I must have got knocked out. It's only happened to me once. And that's when Cowboys slapped his fucking shin across my neck or my face or something like that.

And, yeah, you know, I don't even, I woke up in the hospital like an hour or two later. And I was like, well, I mean, I was awake before that. But, you know, I started coming too at the hospital. I was like, oh, I'm not hurt. at all. I remember I remember when I

when I started when I was I I first started when I started getting a little bit more serious about Jiu-Jitsu years ago and I remember I was rolling with somebody

and we were you know like we were doing a met like it was not like in a school we were just like rolling around fucking around with friends and I got caught

in an arm bar and I refused I kept like trying to fight out of it trying to fight out of it so I was holding under my arm like you see guys do right like he had me from he had me in the arm

bar trying to pull my arm apart right Like he had me like in the position where I'm like this and I'm trying to hold under my arm so he can't pull it out. And I fought it forever, dude, and fought it forever and held on, held on, held on. He finally got it. I kept trying to drag it back, kind of drag it back. And like he finally got it. And I tap the next day, dude, I have never felt pain. Like I had to go to the doctor because I'd hyper extended because I was fucking around so much with my ego being like I don't want to tap.

Dude, it meant nothing. It meant nothing. It meant absolutely nothing in that moment. Like we were fucking around and all I do is tap and just be done with it. But my ego said I can get out of this. My ego said just keep going, keep going. I was got. There was no getting out.

There was no rolling free. There was no like I was done. And I just refused to tap like a jackass and end up hyper extending my elbow and had to go to the doctor and all this other stuff. But like that was like the lesson to me of like ego getting in the way of like reality. Like dude, I was done. And I thought like, oh, I can keep going. I can keep going. there was like four people in the room who the fuck was going to care that I got tapped out by this other

who cares like there was like sick to us like who cares that I got tapped out nobody did my ego in that moment my ego is like no no dude don't tap don't tap you can get out of this I couldn't get out of it it did not end well for me that happens to the best of us so they may you can't yeah don't worry about that bro that's ego it happens to all of especially when we're training all the time I've had my both popped many times in training. But the only difference between me and used, I never went to the doctor. I went and trained again the next day.

Yeah, see? We're built different. We're built different, Matt. That's what I'm saying. If I don't want to lose in front of six people with an arm bar that means absolutely nothing, do you think Mark Zuckerberg wants to get choked out by Elon Musk in front of 20 million people?

And like, do you really think their egos would allow them to do that? I don't know. I don't know if they really give a shit. I don't know. I have no clue. I don't know what's going on. The motherfuckers are way too smart for me, so I can't figure out what would be going their minds.

And I think Zuckerberg, he's a reptile anyway, right? So I'm going to figure out what he's thinking. That's true. Yeah, I just, I think what you said at the very start was the truth. It's not going to happen. Come on, people. Let's slow down here. Like, it's fun to talk about.

But lots of people have talked about fighting. I remember Joe Rogan was going to fight Wesley Snipes once upon a time. Did it happen? No. now that would have been fun that would have been but those are two legit martial artists like even that didn't happen yeah i don't know if they're fighters but they're definitely martial artists that would have been really fun yeah we should bring that back come on joe yeah you know what's wesley up to is he out of jail these days he is he's acting again but he's like 60 now and

joe's like 50 something like when they were talking about doing it they were younger though like they were in their like you know like late 30s early 40s like they were still relatively at that point and they were talking like there was legitimate talks of getting them to fight it didn't happen obviously but like yeah those two are real martial artists though these two are not like Zuckerberg and musk are not i don't care their age i want to see the two five they got they got the testosterone of 20 year olds like let them fight i want to see it put them on t rt for like six months dude they'll be jacked the gills it'll be a lot of fun well joe rogan still jacked to the gills today yeah i was going to say like they're not on t rt come on now

You got a hot-go in the bank. You're on fucking TRT, buddy. Yeah. Yeah, dude, they are. But, yeah, like, that's what I'm talking about. Like, they had talks about fighting it didn't happen. Do we really think Zuckerberg and Musk are going to get in there and do this thing? Like, it's, I don't know.

It's just hilarious to me. Like, it's all anyone can talk about right now. And for good reason is Dana White's giving it credence. Like, he's talking about it. He's saying, like, well, they're serious about doing it. I'm talking to him. I'm like, oh, my brain hurts right now. I can't believe this is reality in 2023.

this is what we're talking about. Yeah, I said, we're in a simulation, bro. And it's, uh, it's, uh, the argument against the simulation is just getting weaker all the time. Oh, I tell you. But you know what? Nothing, nothing should ever surprise us in this sport, like ever. Like, can we really be that surprise? Like, all the other insane things that come up and happen.

And, like, dude, I remember I made a tweet years ago before the whole, uh, Mayweather McGregor fight. And I joked around and I said, Mayweather McGregor are going to fight a hologram simulation of Bruce Lee because that's about as likely to happen. And guess what? Like a year later, they actually made the fight. So anything's possible in this sport, man. If a year from now, you and I are previewing Mark Zuckerberg versus Elon Musk, I will not be shocked.

Yeah, I mean, who would have thought in any mind would have thought a few years ago, Nate Diaz would be fighting Jake Paul or even Tyrone Woodley or, or even Tyrone Woodley or, or Ben Asper, you know, like, or Floyd Mayweather would be fighting Logan Paul. You know, you was watching those guys on the fucking Disney channel. And he'd be like, oh, they're going to be fighting Floyd Mayweather in 10 years or something. Like, yeah, we can't put anything past this sport, man. It just gets crazier and crazier. And it's, you know, you believe it and you fucking achieve it in this sport.

Well, what's funny is one thing Dana says that I agree with. Like, one thing Dana says I really do agree with. He says everyone understands fighting, right? Like, we all do. We all understand fighting. We all like fighting. Like, that's like when I scroll past a TikTok video. There was one I watched the other night where this dude was talking shit to a bouncer at a club.

And this dude just keeps getting in his face, getting in his face. And the guy was like, had to be like five foot two. And the bouncer was like six foot tall. And the guy turns around, throws off his jacket, runs back into bouncer. So there's one punch. And the guy just gets absolutely laid out in the street, like hard laid out in the street. That's not a real fight. it was a bouncer knocking out some jackass who was stupid enough to think at like five two he's going to knock out a six foot something about you a big giant bouncer it was really funny and i watched it i'm just like but that's there is like there is a certain level of like just understand we all love fighting and also there's this weird reality where everyone kind of thinks they're a fighter like everyone thinks they can win a fight like at some level but like you like matt like you know i know you're not big in other sports like you are an athlete you are a legit athlete you are the most knockouts in UFC history is you

But even you would say you put you on a baseball field, you're not going to hit the ball. Someone throwing a 90 mile an hour fastball at you. You're not crazy enough to think you're going to hit a home run off that. Or you're going to step into an NFL field and be good enough to go up against like NFL level linebackers. Like that's a different kind of skill. And like I don't think people are crazy enough to think they could do that. But fighting, it's basically. We all fight at some level.

Like we've all had a fight at some level. Whether you fought your brothers growing up or you fought the schoolyard bully or whatever. Everyone's had a fight at some level. Fighting is like we understand fighting. You don't know how to fight. You understand fighting. So it's like different. Like you would never see Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg sign up and say,

we're going to go play for the Dallas Cowboys in an NFL game. That would never happen. They would get murdered. It would be really ugly and hilarious. But fighting, you know, we're all like, you know, like we're always sizing people up. We're all guilty. I can take him. You got to define, understand fighting.

What does that mean? how do people understand fighting because they've been in a fight they don't mean understand fighting when i say understand fighting i mean like understand that they can get into a fight like they can get into a fight and feel like they have a chance like everyone has that like like everybody understands like why don't musk and zuck play a one-on-one basketball like everybody understands you have to put the ball in the hole yeah right but they understand that better than they do fighting. They think they know fighting. Everyone thinks

that they know fighting and being that they've been in a fight, you know, so everyone can relate to it but they do not understand even the most basics of fighting. But they can relate to it as I think is what you're saying. Yeah, that's right. Everybody can relate

to it because, yeah, because it's a primal instinct. It's something that we all naturally, at least the vast majority of us, I don't maybe Buddhist monks or something don't naturally relate to it. But, you know, we all have an urge to do it at some point in our life. Most of us did it on the playground at some point. But so we all relate to it.

But understanding it, even at the most basic level, well, I would argue hard against that. That's what I mean. Relate to it. That's the word I should have been using. Relate to it. I agree with you. They relate to it. Like, I remember years and years ago when I was living in Cincinnati and I was

working. I just started doing MMA stuff, but I was still training at that point. Some local promoter called me up and said, hey, we got a fight to fell out, guy needs an opponent, do you want to fight? Called me up, ask me if I wanted to fight. And I was like, we just through Cincinnati, just through local context. I think maybe Rich Franklin gave it to him or something. I can't remember. But like, he called me up. Like, hey, this journalist guy but he's like, but he's like, he calls me up and he's like, hey, if you want to fight, like I got a spot. This dude's like he's, you know, whatever. He's like, you know, pretty bad. He's, you know, whatever. He's not this.

He's like, I think it would be fun if you want to do it because I was training at that point. And I was like, nope, nope, not for me, man. Like, I'm just not, I love it. I love the sport. I was just not built that way, man. I'm not going to lie to you. Like, it's just not. Like, I relate to it, but I know better than to think I could actually, like, could I defend my life? If someone attacked me, like, if somebody like, I was standing in a, you know, in a line or something or something, like, you know, push me or something. Could I defend myself? Absolutely. But, like, getting into the actual cage and fighting another person. Like, I'm just not built like that.

I'm not, that's why I respect fighters way too much. So I'm like, what you say, I relate to it. I do relate to it. But I also understand it enough to know I can't do it. Like, I understand it enough and respected enough to know I can't do it. So yes, you got the right word. Everyone relates to fighting and thinks that on some level they can do it. I relate to it.

Like, if somebody actually came up trying to throw a punch at me, could I defend myself? Sure. But am I actually stupid enough to say, hey, man, we're going to put you in a cage with another dude you're going to fight no i get it i relate to it i don't know i understand fighting enough to know that i can't do it and i think that's the difference with like elan musk and mark zuckerberg but there's also something primal about it too right like you beat a guy one-on-one in basketball are you going to feel as good about yourself as if you go out there and knock him out or you choke him out like that's a different level of like you know what i mean like that's a whole other level

like it's one thing like i hit a ball farther than you okay great but i can still knock your ass out Like, that's, that's like the ultimate, that's like the ultimate equalizer, right? Like, yeah, I can hit a ball for you. Great. Let's, let's throw punches to you last. Bro, how many fights were you in in high school? How many, how many times have you been in fights in your life? Three or four, maybe.

Legitimate fights, like three or four, maybe. Yeah. Did you fuck them up? Uh, I would say. You ever, you ever fucked somebody up, Damon? Uh, one time I fucked somebody up really good. Nice. One time.

One time I fucked somebody up really good And it was It was like blinding rage And I fucked him up really good And have you ever been fucked up I've been fucked up But that's back when I actually trained And I sparred and I got fucked up

I got head kicked one time And got the shit knocked out of me So not like any like street fight I've never been like that no Never had that happen Never had that happen I've been sparring fucking around and finding out

I've had that happen Okay So I have a whole new respect for you now because I believe every man should be in a fight at some point in his life maybe not every man like there's like my accountant you know this dude's about you know he's like six to probably 140 pounds and he wears cackies that that don't even touch his ankle bones you know like his glasses are the thickest things like the legit picture of a nerd I'm like yeah he needs to stay doing what he's doing like keep doing my counting

do it really well. You don't need a fight. You know, like you need people like me as your friend just in case, though. But the vast majority of dudes, man, they should fucking fight, man. They should do it at least once in their life. You know, my kids on the playground, well, I just asked them. They're going into seventh grade after the summer. I asked them there a day.

I said, man, how many fights y'all seen on the playground? They're like, Dad, we ain't ever seen no fights on the playground. it fucking blew me away I'm like you guys need to go pick a fight on the fucking playground You guys can't be Little pussies like that

You know you gotta You gotta fucking show the hierarchy here You gotta show your dominance On the fucking playground boys I remember this one time I was in school And there was this we used to have fights Every week when I was in school

Like at least once a week There was a fight And I remember this one There's like more of the flies right Yeah there was this one kid His first name was Chad I don't remember his last name but he used to get in fights like at least once a month.

And he always lost. Like he never won a fight. Like he would get his ass kicked every single solitary time he fought. He would get his ass kick. But I remember one time him and this other dude, which sadly, if I remember correctly, as a dude I went to school with who actually ended up committing suicide a few years ago, which is very sad. But him and he was like, that dude was like one of the tough dudes in our class.

They're like super tough dude. This dude was getting the fucking brakes beat off him. the guy who always lost. He was just getting the absolute dog shit kicked out of him. The teachers didn't see it fast enough so they didn't come. So a couple students tried to get in, like break him up. Because this dude was just getting his ass beat. And the dude getting his ass beat was like, no, no, leave us alone.

We're fighting. Like he didn't want them breaking it up. Now, the teachers came in and broke it up like a minute later. But even he was like, no, fuck off. I'm in a fight. And the guy was just getting his fucking ass beat. Like he was just getting pumbled. But even he was like, no, no, don't break us up.

I have a chance. He didn't have a chance and he was just getting way laid on. But even that, like, in that moment, there was something about his instinct where he's just like, no, no, no, fuck off. I want to keep fighting. Even though the dude's like literally pounding him in the head on the ground and he's telling people, no, no, back off. And then, you know, the teacher's broken up like 45 seconds a minute later. But like, that's just like that dude. That was that dude.

Like, he fought every single month and he never won. Gina, I want to catch up with Chad. I want to know what he's up to these days. I bet he's living fucking good life, man. I don't know, man. but yeah, everyone, dude,

we had fights every week. Like, if it went another, like a week and a half without a fight, it was, it was strange in our school. Like,

there was a fight every week. Yeah, same here. You know, we grew up in the country, man, and it was, like I said, there was a hierarchy

on the playground. Everybody knew who was who, like you don't fight this guy, you know, like prison yard or something, you know, like we all stick to ourselves and like you go over to this group,

like you're going to get in a fight. And every, like you said, every week or so, there'd be people, People crossing lines, right? It's like fucking Lord of the Flies, man. You got to create a hierarchy.

There's a dominance. There's a, you know, you got to let everybody know who's who. I don't know how that's come out of our world now. So like I said, I was telling my kids, you got to go create the hierarchy and put yourself at the top. Let these motherfuckers know. Well, my one son, actually the one that doesn't fight as much, a really fucking, really, really, really highly intelligent kid.

He told me, he goes, he goes, well, you know, there was one time I almost got in a fight. He said, these guys were picking on me, or not picking on me, but they weren't letting me play the football or something, and they were pissing me off. So I was about to fight them. I said, these guys, like, how many of them? He was like, well, there's five of them. I said, you were about to fight five guys and five other kids. He's like, yeah, they don't know jihitsu or wrestling or kickboxing.

He's like, I'd fuck them up. I mean, he didn't curse, but he's like, yeah, I beat them up easy. I was like, that's my boy. Okay. Yeah. That's funny, dude. But that's also, in all honestly, even though I never really, like, I never got like, like, you know, I was, I was never the kid in those, like, weekly fights.

Got into a couple of fights. And then obviously, I remember, because I always liked doing jiu-jitsu and wrestling, and then I tried to do kickboxing and I sparred. And I was like, well, let's just, you know, fuck around smart. I got fucking head kicked. And that was the end of that shit. I was like, all right, not built for kickboxing. This ain't working out too well for me.

But anyways, my point being, but my point being doing that, the little bit of experience. I had, like, made me respect fighters that much more. Like, that's why I, that's why, going back to the whole Zuckerberg Mustang, like, I have enough respect for fighters to know that I have no business being in there. I respect what, what you guys do way too much to, like, dishonor it. And I'm just, I'm not built that way. Like, I could defend myself. If someone wanted to start some shit, I can defend myself.

And chances are, in a street fight, like, most idiots are going to lose. Like, most idiots, like, coming out with their hands up like this, with their arms out like that, they're going to get killed. You know what I mean? Those are the idiots. Yeah, well, the number one thing is street fights. And I preach this to all the people all the time to come to my gym for self-defense. You know, they come in and they say, yeah, I just want to learn how to defend myself.

I'm like, dude, the number one thing in defending yourself is endurance. Like all these skills that you learn, unless you become, you know, really good, like, you know, purple belt. Or you've been kickboxing a couple years and wrestling, whatever. You got to do it for a long amount of time. for it to be of any value whatsoever. Before that, it's all endurance. You just have to last longer than another guy. Because how many fights can people last more than a minute?

You've done it before. You sparred. Like that one minute is a long fucking time to fight when you ain't never fought. It is a long fucking time. It is. Like those seconds click off very fucking slow. Dude, it's rough. It is rough.

But it's so funny. Like when you know, like you remember that viral video that happened like two years ago It was during the pandemic when there was like these dudes got into a bar fight in Oklahoma college students And there's like these two big football players from Oklahoma And they had to be like double the size of the guys that were fighting. But the guys they were fighting were wrestlers. And the guy literally just picked the dude up and chucked him over his fucking head and threw him on the floor and started punching him. And then his other friend threw the other guy.

Like we're talking like six foot two football players against like five seven wrestlers. and the 5-7 wrestlers just chucked these dudes. Do you remember that? Do you remember that viral fight from the bathroom? I never seen that. Oh, dude, I've just sent it to you. But it was so, like, that's like, that's where you hold, though. Like, you fuck around, you find out.

Like, the football players, these big, burly 6-foot-2 dudes, think they're just going to, like, you know, bully the 5-7 little small guys. The wrestlers are like, nope, ain't going to happen. And they just chucked the dude over his head. And he slammed him on the ground and started punching him. It was vicious, dude. It was so nasty. But, like, that's why I didn't.

Because that's a whole car. thing we have here where you know I follow all the Instagram people and the Twitter social media people all around that are all promoting strength and you know being a strong person

all these motherfuckers are promoting going to the gym and lifting weights and I'm like what the fuck you're talking about being strong like that's not what strength is like that's the ability to move something like real strength comes in fucking learning martial arts

you know what I'm saying it's like all that shit makes you feel like you're stronger than someone else yeah it doesn't actually make you stronger maybe powers a better word I'm not sure to work for it but it doesn't make you dominant over someone else it just makes you be able to lift because you can lift a fucking barbell off the ground

like how's that going to help you when I'm fucking you know elbow your fucking orbital yeah well you were remember you've seen the videos like the gym challenges where like the big ripped up muscle muscular guys will go in and like I could box a guy and they'll go in against like a mid-level boxer and the boxer just fucks him up like just yeah I mean it's not even like a contest like that no like dude just be just being big and muscular and go save you against like a legitimately skilled fighter like it's not it's not going to end well for that big muscle up dude like it's just not like that's that goes back to the whole original UFC hoist grace his whole scrawny Brazilian dude like these big giant guys were like, oh, I could crush this little dude. And he wraps around you like an anaconda

and he's getting choked out and you can't move. That's legitimate skilled martial arts versus like just being big and muscular. Like I'll take being skilled over being big and muscular any day. That's exactly it. I've had so many guys come to the gym. I'm sure every gym owner experiences this or every gym rat experiences this

where the big muscular guys come in and this is what happens every time, especially if you're doing like a jihitsu round or even the kickboxing. Brown, you know, they spaz out for about 30 seconds, maybe a minute, and then they, and then they'll tap out or those, those stories say, okay, can we take a break or something? And it's like, no, motherfucker. You just had your shit. You gave everything you had to me.

Now it's my turn, bitch. I allowed you to do that and I survived it. Now you have to survive mine, motherfucker. And I never tap them out quickly. I never, you know, try to hurt them quickly or anything. I always wait till, you know, if it's a five minute around, I'm going to wait till about the 415 mark, and then I'm coming after him. Now I'm going to start going for his neck, going for his arm, going for the liver.

You know, I won't knock him out, you know, because I'm a nice guy like that. But, you know, I'm going to fuck his liver up and he's going, he might piss some blood tomorrow. You remember that show Bullie B down that used to be on MTV? Like what they always have. Now, granted, that's like obviously a much bigger mismatch. got like a guy in their, you know, spar with Andre Arlofsky, but still, like, these guys are like, I'll take a chance.

And like, in that competition, you didn't even have to win. You just had to survive. Like, you didn't have to, like, you just had to not get tapped out, you know, and you got money. So, like, they're not saying you're going to beat a professional fighter, but you have survived. And these guys took this shot and they're like, dude, you have no chance. You have no chance to survive five minutes on the ground with Ander Aloski or Jake Shields or some of these guys.

Like, I laughed at him. I'm like, dude, like, there's, that's where you got to put your ego in check. Like, I know better. I 100% know better. Like I know that ain't going to end well for me. Dude, we should start a challenge like that where you just get, you know, five minutes with a pro fighter. Nothing has to be bullied beat down. Just anybody, you know, just come in and try it.

Yeah, dude, it's not going to end well for anybody that's not a pro fighter. That's why I said, I keep going back to the Zuckerberg of Mustang. Like, that's why when I say, understand, what you says, right, I relate to fighting. But I relate to a fight. I relate to fighting in a way that I respect it so much. I know better. It would be disrespectful to the sport for me to try to do it in that regard. But hey, if they want to do it, you know, whatever, more power to them.

It's going to be really low-level MMA. It's probably going to be hilarious or it's going to be really, really boring. But, you know, as long as it goes to what I said, they want to donate all the money to charity and all the fighters get pay-per-viewpoints. Sign me up tomorrow. I'll sign up and watch that fight right now. Everybody's going to hate that they watched it. We're all going to watch it.

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Yeah. Well, it's like, but you remember, like this is way different. Like this is way, way different. But like, people were talking themselves

into Connor McGregor beating Floyd Mayweather. Like, people were talking themselves into Floyd Mayweid. Like, Conner were legitimately having a chance to be Floyd Mayweather. And, you know,

he didn't. He didn't have a chance. He had no chance. You know, all he had was like, you know, Floyd slipping on a banana pill and Connor catching him

with a punch coming in. Like, that was his chance. But people talked themselves into it. You know what I mean? people talk to themselves in. He's got a shot. He's got a shot. So, you know, I guess, listen, dude, we will watch anything. I mean, come on. Let's be honest. People will pay to watch anything if it's interesting to them. And watching Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk throw punches

at each other for two minutes is interesting. For some unknown reason, it is interesting. But I go back to what you originally said. I'll quote Matt Brown when I say this. These motherfuckers are not fighting. Come on now. They're talking. They're not fighting. That'd be the headline, right? These motherfuckers are not fighting. That is the headline. I'm telling you right now that's going to be the headline right now. That's going to headline for this podcast because these motherfuckers are not fighting. Come on now.

Like it's fun to, it's fun to joke about and the headlines are great and everyone's going to jumping all over this. But dude, I think it's ego. I still go back to that. You could probably just make the headline. Look, these two pussy bitches are not fighting. Like these guys are all, they're just

a little soft little, they could be girls at this point. Like, what have they ever done strength-wise in their life, you know, like, nothing. Like, like, Zuck did a fucking jiu-jitsu tournament. All right, well, I got six-year-old kids that do jih Turing it's like, like, great job, bro, you know? Well, I respect, like, anyone who, like, I respect, like, anyone who, like,

what I don't want to hear, hopefully, hopefully you're not about to say this. What I, what I, because what I don't want to hear from all these people is, like, oh, I respect anybody that walks in that cage. I don't know if you're about to say that. No, I was not. I was not about saying. Good, good. Because that is a terrible thing to say

because I've met some of the stupidest motherfuckers ever that are step foot in a cage that were not ready to step in a cage. I was one of them as a matter of fact. You know, like I was that guy when I first started. Like, what are you talking about? Like, my first fight, I was coked out of my mind and never trained a day in my life.

So I was that stupid, motherfucker. Fortunately, it worked out for me. For 99.9% it's not fucking working out. So don't tell me like he's respect him, but it walks in the cage, which you weren't going to tell me.

But when people say that, it drives me up to fucking walk, and I respect anyone that is able to get to a decent level, right? And, you know, they've been through some adversity and things like that. But just to step in the cage, there's a huge difference between courage

and stupidity. Yeah. What I respect, I respect anyone who respects martial arts. Like you want to learn martial arts? That's cool. There you go. Like, I respect that. Like, I respect that Mark Zuckerberg is like seriously enthusiastic about learning

Jiu-Jitsu. I get that. That's awesome. Like, that's really cool. And I know a lot of people, and I'm sure you're the same way, Matt. Like, I've talked to people because a lot of people who run gyms, yourself included, like I would say probably the vast majority of people who train at your gym. They're never going to be fighters.

Like, that's not what they're there for. They're there to learn jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, self-defense. They're not there because they want to go. the UFC. Now, do you have that? Absolutely. But I was at American Top Team, which is a massive gym in Florida. And I was there during Pro Day, and there's a lot of pros training, but I also know, like, the vast

majority of people who train there, there's kids classes. There's kids wrestling classes. There's you know, intermediary kickboxing classes. Like, those people, and I respect all the people who just enjoy martial arts. That's awesome. Like, dude, more people should. I agree. Like, I'm with you. Everyone should do it. Like, that's really cool. I respect the hell

of Mark Zuckerberg for being enthusiastic about wanting to learn Jiu-Jitsu and do it. That's awesome doesn't mean you're a fighter doesn't mean your UFC fighter doesn't mean you should be in the cage that's exactly right I couldn't have said it better myself yeah so yeah that's a great point right there I also have respect for Mark Zuckerberg for doing that because it does take balls to walk into a gym for a consistent amount of time walking there one day it doesn't take a lot of balls but to get in there get beat up come back and do it again I don't know who is training them I forget who's training him.

Dave, Dave Camarillo, the jiu-jitsu guy. Like, I can't imagine that Dave Camarillo is taking it easy on him completely. I mean, I'm sure he is a little bit. He's like, this is a fucking good payday, right?

Like, well, he's a white belt. I mean, how much are you supposed to push a white belt anyways? Like, get it to me? Like,

it's not like he's a black belt level of jitzy guy. He ain't in there rolling with Gordon Ryan for Christ's sake. You know, like he's a white belt. Right. But even white belts. You get up, you know,

if it's a normal guy, like, you're going to push him, right? And so I assume he's getting pushed and he's getting sore. You know, he's feeling some pain, getting, you know, some rash from the ghee. You know, his fingers are probably getting beat up a little bit from the ghee, things like that. And he's coming back the next day. That's what I respect because that does take a little bit of willpower, a little bit of drive, a little bit of dedication. We'll see how long he does it, you know, because, you know, the long journey is what builds a lot more respect, you know,

like the longer you do it, the more respect you earn. Yeah. So we'll see how it plays out, but I do respect. I agree with you on that. I respect that he's into the martial arts and it's promoting the martial arts also. So that's better than, you know, promoting some silly fight that's not going to happen. And that's fine. And that's a far cry from saying.

going to step in and fight it. You know what I mean? Like that's what we're talking about. Like I agree with you. Like I'm not saying that. I say, I respect him for enjoying martial arts. I wish everybody did. I think it's awesome. I think trying martial arts is amazing and I love it. And it's a great experience. But yeah, like there's a far cry from that to like I'm going to step in and do battle with another person in the cage. Like you said, that's a whole different animal. It's a whole different animal, bro. That's exactly it. Yeah, you know, I'd think it'd be cool if he gets sport out there more and gets more people involved. And, you know, I think a lot of people might see that.

They'll see, like, oh, this fucking rich-ass dork is doing jiu-tit-to. Maybe I should go try it. So that could be good for me in my business. Yeah. But then thinking this rich-ass dude is going to fight in the UFC, maybe I can do that. That's probably not going to happen. That's a whole. Like, even in my own gym, like, I don't always follow these rules strictly.

But I tell guys, like, you know, before you even fight, like, you should be a purple belt. Like, you should be, you know, do a couple of. couple years of kickboxing, amateur fights, blah, blah, this motherfucker's a white belt going to UFC. I don't like that. It's fucking nuts, right? Well, like I said, unless they're going to give you paper few points, that's where you get me in. You get me interested with that, and that's only because of benefits other fighters.

If it doesn't benefit the other fighters, I'm out. I got no interest in that. I mean, dude, that's, like I said, dude, I've seen, I've seen enough, I've seen enough bad, I've seen, I've seen bad fights on, like, legitimately good regional shows. Like, I've been to regional shows where it's like some really bad low-level MMA, really bad low-level MMA, and that's guys who actually do train. Like, guys who legitimately train, they're just not good. And I've seen that plenty of times where I've been to regional shows.

I'm like, oh, boy, this is, this is rough. Well, that's a great point, too. I mean, if people want to see what they're kind of in store for, like, go to your local amateur show and see how terrible the fucking fights can be. I mean, there'll probably be a couple good fights on there and a couple good fighters here and there. but the majority of them are going to be fucking idiots. And this is what you're going to be watching when you see Elon Musk and Zuck.

Well, they're not going to fight. Yeah, I agree. I agree. All right. How is it, dude. We got UFC fights. We got big fights coming up every weekend. We get stuck to talk about Zuckerberg and Musk because it's all anyone's talking about this past like three or four days.

I know, dude, that's all anyone's talking about these past three or four days. He's like, Dana's done like four interviews talking about it. I love it. So that's our sport. That's how we roll. That's how we roll. We talk about Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk. We talk about Eliott-Tuporia putting on an incredible performance against Josh Schmidt

or the fuckery that happened in the PFL this past weekend. But, you know, people want to know about Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. So, hey, there you got to talk about Ilya, man. This dude looked fucking amazing. Dude. Is he the guy? Could he be the guy to be the guy to be? beat to dethrone Volcanowski?

I mean, he certainly has a lot of the tools to do it, I think. You know, Volk is a motherfucker, though. So it's, you know, he, Volk is one of those guys that is able to do things against guys that you don't think he's going to be able

to do against him, you know, like Islam, for instance, right? Like he did a lot of things that we never thought, we didn't really think Volk would be able to do what he did. Yeah, he's so good. good. He's so good, man. Yeah. And good and adaptable.

You know, he's an adaptable guy, you know. So it's just hard to pick against him. But Tuporia look like he has all the tools to make about anything happen in the sport. Yeah, I liked it. It went five rounds, too, because Tuporia hadn't really done that before. We got to see him going. He still had gas in the fifth round. Like, he didn't look like he was done at all. That's important. But like I said, man, you never know. because if you would have said five years ago or four years ago, I'd know the timeline of it when Max Holloway was champion,

I said, no, listen, Alexander Volcanowski is really good. He's not beating Max Holloway. They beat him three times. Right now, I'd say, I love Yairo Rodriguez. I don't think he's going to beat Alexander Volcanowski. We'll break down that fight in a couple weeks when it happens. But like I said, right now I'm like, I don't think anyone at Featherwood's going to beat Alexander Volcanowski,

but I said the same thing with Max Holloway. There's never and never in this sport. Like, you can never say never in this sport. And as good as Alexander Volcanoxie is, Ilya Toporia might be the guy to finally have his number. You just don't know.

And like I said, I could admit that. Like, I didn't think Volcanowski would beat Holloway. I picked Holloway all three times. And then Volcanowski beat him every single time. Yeah. I'll tell you what would be a really,

really interesting matchup. Not that Vulcan Toporio wouldn't be, but Vulcan Yair Rodriguez, like just the stylistically, like I think that would be an amazing vibe. It just crossed my mind. I didn't even think about that, but I think that would actually be,

boy, that would be a fire matchup, man. You mean, you mean, Tupori and Yair, is that you mean? Yeah, that's what I see. Yeah, you said, you said Volk, but yeah, Tupori and Yair. I agree. That would, yeah, that would be a fire matchup. That would be absolute fire, man.

And just the way they're built, the way they move and everything, that would be absolutely a, barn burner. That's not a takeaway from bulk. I mean, but matchup-wise, that just excites me a little bit more. You know,

I don't know what. Yeah. I mean, I think that right now, dude, the top of that division's so good. Like, imagine Holloway and Toporia.

That would be a really fun fight. Like, that's a really interesting matchup, too. Like, the way Holloway just hits you for, like, he's like the death by a thousand cuts. Like,

that guy will just hit you in your face for 25 minutes and land 400 significant strikes. But then Tuporia, just coming at you with power. His jab looked good. He had a really nasty jab on Saturday, which was super impressed. He just jabbed the hell out. And he did damage with his jab.

Like, he busted up Emmett's eye with his jab. Like, that was all jab, which is such an underutilized weapon at times in MMA. Tupori and Holloway would be a great fight. Yeah, which is what makes it really interesting because, you know, I've always, I think if it has a weakness, Tepore exposed it, right? Like he doesn't move his head well. You know, he gets, he can be jabbed a lot. Like that is, hopefully he goes and fixes that.

You know, I love Josh Schmidt and I hope nothing but for the best for him. But I think that was a weakness that was exposed. Can he do that against Volcanowski? Can he do that against Sierra Rodriguez? Can you do it against Max Holloway, these other guys? That's yet to be seen. That's, I think that's the main thing that makes it so exciting. I think that's the next level, right?

because where Josh Emmett is, Josh Emmett, I think the UFC had him rank number five. And I'm with you, man. Josh Jim, it's awesome, incredible fighter. But, like, Josh Emmett's that next level. It's like going in a video game. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you got through the one boss in Josh Jim,

and now you're on to, like, the final three bosses. Like, you're on to Volcanowski Holloway and Yair. Like, those are the final three bosses. And that's just a different level in and of itself, right? Like, Emmett's incredibly good. You pass that test. Now you got a three-headed monster ahead of you. You know what I mean?

Like, that's a whole other level. And we're going to find out. But, dude, I'm big on Ily at Tupori, man. That kid's a monster. He hits so hard. But this last weekend really showed me something about him being able to go five rounds and do it the way he did it. Deep in that fifth round. Because Emmett just, Emmett would not fucking go away, dude.

He just would not back down. It was insane. Like, some of the shots he took and kept coming. And Teporia never got, like, demoralized by it. He never got tired. You know, he never, like, showed, like, signs of slowing down. Like, dude, he had him mounted and, like, dropping hammers on him. And you're like, dude, he's going to,

be gassed out no he kept going like i was so shocked because like that adrenaline dump coming that close to getting a finish and he just kept coming i was like damn like that's super impressive yeah he showed a lot of professionalism and looked like a you know a calculated veteran in there you know i mean but he's still got a lot of youth at him and but he looked very experienced you know so i thought he showed a lot of great things that can't wait to see him fight these these next bosses man, this is going to be a great time. Who's ranked number four in that division? Is that Max?

Hold on. I have to look real quick here in the UFC rankings. Hold on. At Featherway, it is. Volcanowski's champ, Yaya Rodriguez, Max Holloway, Brian Ortega, Arnold Allen, and Josh Emmett.

That's the top five. So Brian Ortega and Arnold Allen is still technically ahead of him in terms of like the rankings. Okay. Yeah, it's an interesting division, man. That's going to be an exciting division for a long time to come.

And I think Brian Ortega is sort of the dark horse and that whole thing where he can still, he has the ability to beat all these guys. He just, you know, something has always been missing for him. Just that, you know, just little something tiny, you know, even with like Volcanowski, like how close was he to finishing him or, you know, Max Holloway, obviously had like a lot of problems with.

But I think he's sort of a dark horse, man, that could kind of come out and have his day. He had that unfortunate injury with the Ayer. We really didn't get to see that fight. know what I mean? Like that was kind of a bummer. He got injured. We didn't get to see him. I agree, Orteg, because when Ortega came back, he lost to Max, he came back and absolutely beat the brakes off to Korean zombie. Like, he just, and it was all striking. Like, he was out there just outstriking him, and it was a brilliant performance. I really wish we'd gotten to see him

fight Yair for real, for real, for real, for real, because he got injured and we just never got to see the fight. I hope he, I know he's supposed to be coming back later this year. I've heard rumors about maybe him fighting Giga Chikaze, which is a real super interesting fight, so that's fun. Maybe he fights Arnold Allen. When he comes back, I don't know. But yeah, I'm with you. Ortega's a beast, man. At his best, Ortega can beat anybody. I mean, when he's on his number, he can beat anybody. Yeah, that's where I'm at. And yes, and I'll, boy, that is a fucking loaded division, is it? That's an exciting division. Featherweight's good. And then my personal favorite, man, best division in mixed martial arts right now. I think it's a Bantanway division.

I mean, Bantamate is so much fun right now across the sport. Because, dude, we get got Sergio Pettis going to fight Patsy Mix later this year. That's going to be an incredible fight. I am so high on Pachy Mix. I think he might be, like, legitimately, like, top two or three. I don't know if I put him number one yet, but he's right there. Al Jermaine fighting Sean O'Malley. Henry Sehudo, fighting Chito Vida.

That's a good one. Corey Sanhagan, fight Umar, Narragamatta Metal. That one's got to be a heartbreaker for you, Max. I know you like Umar, but I know Corey Sanhagan's your guy. Like, Corey Sanhagan, Umar, Narragamato. That's a fucking fight. That is a fucking fight, boy. Yeah, I mean, how much props can you give to Corey Saneh for taking that fight, too?

Like, what a ballsy guy, man. Just a – and I've known him for a long time, and I knew how he was back in the day. You know, he's just stayed true to who he is, man. He's a warrior through and through. He's going to – he's got a lot of heart, man. You know, he didn't have to take this fight, I don't think. But he's going out there putting his balls on the line. So I love him, man.

Oh, I absolutely adore me. I mean, I've had Corey San Hagan on the show before, and I've interviewed him many, many times. Corey's a great guy. Corey is that dude. Like, he's the dude who will step up. Like, he didn't, he doesn't really, I mean, obviously you gain something every time you win a fight, but like he doesn't have nearly as much to gain as, as, uh, Umar does. You know, I mean, like, umar gets a huge jump up in the rankings.

If he can beat Corey, what does Corey really gain? You know, I think he's like, I think Corey's like five and Umar's like 11. You know what I mean? Like, Corey doesn't get a big bump for beating Umar. Now, is Umar a great talent and people like us know how good he is? Yeah. but you know does he does that mean that like corey gets as much no but dude the balls to take a fight like this this is a lot like because to me to me to me so huto and sanhagan would have been a better fight maybe

you put chito in there with with umar you know what i mean like something like that would have made more sense but for corey to say yeah give me umar dude that says a lot about who you are absolutely yeah so uh is that fight going to be uh july fourth weekend which one the Aljo O'Malley. That's August 19th. That's Boston. UFC 292. So that's,

that's August 19th. Corey is August 5th with Umar. And then Suhudo and Cheetos is also on August 19th. It's on the same card as Aljo and Omali. What do we got coming up for July 4th weekend? July is going to be Yaira Rodriguez and Volcanowski, Alexander Volcanowski and Brandon Marino and Alashondre Pantosia. That's that card coming up.

That's that UFC 290. That's a car. coming up in a couple weeks. Okay, okay. So they don't have one on July 4th weekend? That's the weekend. July 4th is on a Tuesday. It's that Saturday.

So it's that Saturday. Yeah, Saturday. And then at the end of July, we got, in the July, we got Dustin Porre, Justin Gachy, too. We got Jan Blahovich and Alex Perea, and Paulo Costa's coming back. So, yeah, that's the end of July.

So we got a lot of stuff coming up. A lot of big fights coming up. Is Costa fighting Hamza, right? No, he's fighting some other Russian dude. I can't remember his name. And last I heard, I think it's still happening. But yeah, some of the Russian dude, oh, God, what's his name? I feel terrible for getting his name.

Hold on one second. I'll tell you for sure. Let's see. Get on your game, Damon. I know, I know. He's follow, yeah. Tony Ferguson's fighting Bobby Green. That's it.

Paulo Costa is fighting Ikram Ali Scaroff is his name. Okay. I remember I watched some highlights of that dude. Yeah, he's a fucking beast, right? Yeah, he beat. So he actually lost the Hamzae back in 20. 2019 in Brave. But since then he hasn't lost, and he came in the UFC.

He only has one fight in the UFC. He knocked out Phil Halls in two minutes in his debut. Yeah, he's getting Paulo Koso. But he's like a multi-time, like, Samba champion. Like, you know, he's one of those dudes. He's got like a huge Samba background. His only loss came to Chamaev in 2019. But outside of that, he's won every fight.

And, yeah, it was a weird fight that they made it. But Ickram Ali Skaerov seems like a legit dude. Why he's getting Paulo Kost in his second fight. I don't really understand, but whatever. Yeah. Well, boy, we got a lot of stack cards. We're going to be talking about this month. Dude, we got a lot, man.

I can't wait. It's good. Like I said, it's always fun when you got, like, just a lineup of good fights coming up. It's just fun to know what's coming, dude. There's a lot of good. And Poria Gates you, too, dude. That's come up in July. How's the fight we only have to talk about?

We just know it's going to be fucking bonkers. Dude, that's fucking exciting, right? What's the date for that? July 29th. That's in Utah, yeah, in Utah. So that's going to be, that's the same day as Crawford and Spence. It's the same date as Crawford Spence. Crawford Spence and Porre Gaitiae are the same day.

Boy, that's a hell the night of combat sports, man. I can not wait for that. Yeah, dude, it's going to be great. You got, Porre and, you know, man, my head says Porier. I just think Porriet is that good, but my gut says Gaichy for some reason. I don't know why. I just, I don't know. There's just something like Gachi's mentality where I really dig his mentality and I really

dig like where he's at in his career. And I love to fight with Fiziev. Like him beating Fisiev the way he did showed a lot. Because dude, you and me both were super high on Fizziyev and for Gajie to go out there and beat him the way he did, I was like, damn, that's super impressive. So my head says Porriere, but my gut and what I'm going to go with is my gut. I'm going to pick Gachie. You know, I wish I could have explained it better than you did.

I think you said it perfectly. I feel the exact same way about that fight. There's just something about it. There's not, I can't even explain it, but there's something that says, man, like, I think Gagie's got this one. But at the same time, it's like, dude, I probably felt that way about Poyer in the past. Like, he's, he's underestimated so many times. And this dude comes through and fucking proves this all wrong.

Like, we're dumbasses. Yeah, Poree is a monster, man. Like I said, Porre is that dude, man. Like, I thought, like, when he rematch Connor, I thought, like, the first time, not the second time. The first time, I was like, Connor's hand speed, you know, his power in his left hand. Like, I still had to believe in Connor at that point. And Porre went out there and knocked him on the second round. I picked him to beat Oliver.

I picked Porre to beat Oliver. I did do that. I was like, I think he's going to beat Oliver. And sure enough, Charles proved me wrong on that one. But, yeah, I don't know. There's just something about this one. But I, this is one of those fights where I just get to sit back and watch, man. Like, I don't, dude, I don't care.

It's just going to be a fucking. fight. These two dudes are going to, these two dudes are going to take each other's soul in that cage that night. It's just going to be an amazing final. You know it's going to be amazing. Yeah, there's no way for it not to be. With all the high level fights we got coming up, that one still

just excites me the most. You know, I don't want discount level there, but those guys are just fucking dogs, man. They're just dogs and they're just going to get a war. It's going to be a dog fight. That's what we ultimately what we like to see, but it's going to be a high level dog fight.

Oh, yeah, that's going to be amazing. Lots of great fights coming. So I'm super excited about Al Jemate and O'Malley in August. I heavily favor Sterling to win that fight, and I think he will. But I'm still super intrigued to see it. I think it's a really fun fight. And Sehudo and Cheeto is really fun. Chris Wyman coming back from the leg injuries, fighting Brad Tavares.

That's a really fun fight. So, dude, lots of good fights coming up. Yeah, we got a lot to pick apart here. I'm going to do my research and keep up with you. Well, next week, we'll be breaking down UFC 290 with Alexander Volcanowski, Yaya Rodriguez, and Brandon Moreno and Alessandre Pantosia. Those two fights are coming up next weekend. So we'll be breaking that down on next week's show. So get geared up for that one.

Can't wait. Let's get it, bro. All right, boys. Well, we are going to get out of here. We appreciate everyone tuning in each and every week of the show. Matt, where can people check you out? Where can they throw you some support when you're not doing the podcast? I'm always doing the podcast.

but I'm Immortal on Twitter and Instagram. At the Immortal Coffee, you know, the best coffee in the world. Make excuses, not coffee, at the immortal coffee.com. Same on Twitter and Instagram. And, yeah, check me out on all those, man. Let's go. Absolutely. Well, we'll be back next week.

We'll do our UFC 290 preview going into that card coming up next weekend, which is going to be phenomenal international fight week. Always fun to talk about. So we'll be breaking down those fights next week. obviously always check us on on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course,

over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. We will see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap.

You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.