MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Mauricio ‘Shogun’ Rua and Glover Teixeira Retiring, Argues Coaches Need to Be Willing to Throw in the Towel at Times

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

With UFC 283 in the books, The Fighter vs. The Writer reacts to the biggest moments on the first pay-per-view card for 2023, which included Jamahal Hill becoming light heavyweight champion with a dominant showcase against Glover Teixeira. UFC welterweight Matt Brown will give his thoughts on the fight as well as Teixeira’s announcement that he’ll be retiring from the sport. Brown also reacts to Mauricio “Shogun” Rua’s final fight and he offers his argument about why more coaches need to be willing to throw in the towel to save a fighter. In fact, Brown says if he was in the same situation, he would have stopped the fight between Lauren Murphy and Jessica Andrade after Murphy absorbed a tremendous amount of punishment over three rounds. Finally, Brown reveals that he’s about to start his own training camp with a fight expected to be booked in the near future and he details why he’s coming back to compete again. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Fighter versus the writer, I'm Damon Martin. He is Matt Brown, and we are back after another exciting weekend, a UFC action. The pay-per-views are back. UFC 283 went down this past weekend in Brazil. But first things first, Matt Brown. How are you? I'm very good, man. Down here, Nashville hanging out, training.

And getting it in, man. Got some stem cells the other day. Get a little stronger, feeling good, man. So I'm ready to start getting back into camp and been in talks with the UFC lately. So got some surprises coming up pretty soon for everyone. You better break everything on this podcast if you don't. Like, what's the point? Come on now, Matt Brown.

Of course, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. But I don't want to break anything until it's official, right? Yeah. What are you looking? Any idea, like, timeline when you want to fight? I'm hoping March or April. Oh, really?

That quickly. Yeah, yeah, I'm ready, man. I've been talking to it a little bit, and I'm fucking ready to fire it off, man. I'm ready to fight it. So let me ask you. You say that quickly, but I haven't fought since, what, last May? Last March. It was last March.

Columbus, yeah. Not really there. Yeah. So let me ask, let me ask this question. This is a good, good segue with your fight. You're coming back. And obviously we saw over the weekend a couple of legends of the sport retired. Gloverton Shera called it a career.

Mariso Shogun, who called her career. You, like, you, because I remember, you know, obviously you talked about very openly a few years ago. Like you declared you were going to retire after the Diego Sanchez fight. And, of course, you decided to come back and continue fighting after that. what like I know this sounds like a very broad question very philosophical question but what are your reasons for fighting now? Like what are what are the reasons for Matt Brown? Because you don't necessarily need to. Like I guess is what I'm getting at.

You don't need to fight. Like you're not a position where you're like, man, I need this. Like I need this paycheck or I need this or that. Like you're in a kind of like in that Glover showgun range where I'm getting at is like you've established yourself. You've built a resume. You know what I mean? Like everyone knows Matt Brown. When you see Matt Brown like, oh yeah, dude.

That guy's like, yeah, he's a legend. Like we don't have to, you've established yourself, you know what I mean? What's the reasons for fighting at this stage? Well, there's certainly a financial aspect to it. You know, I'm fine on money. I'm not broke or anything like that. But at the same time, there's nothing that I can put two months of work into and get the same ROI on, right? So, you know, there is that sort of aspect to it.

but even more so than that, like even I would rather be broke. Like I wouldn't want to fight just for money ever, like if I wasn't enjoying it still. And I fucking love it, man. Like there's nothing that I love more than getting in that cage and fighting against another man. And the whole process leading up to a fight, the journey, the weight cut, like everything, man, the suffering. I just love it, man. And I think a lot of people, a lot of fighters would probably relate to me on this when

I dip my toes in a lot of different things, but there's nothing that excites me like fighting. There's nothing that really gets my heart rate up and makes me want to get out of bed in the morning. There's nothing that that just gets me a boner more than fighting, man. Even sex. See, you're saying this and you're probably thinking in the back of your head, like, dude, you know why this. You know why. Why are you asking this freaking question? I do know that, Matt, but I'm just like, I want to hear you say it because there's going to be any, like, anytime that you're, when any time that you're in a level where people have, you know, where you say,

like, you've established yourself and what you've done. And I agree. Like, I, I, think that more fighters need to pick the right time to walk away. Because we've talked about on this show years ago we talked about it, where guys just don't know when to walk away. And it's sad, right? Like, it's sad when you see, I'll bring up a great Chuck Liddell. Like, who wants to remember Chuck Liddle's last fight is that last one Tito Ortiz? No one.

There's not a person on earth that wants to remember. Now, granted Chuck had some other knockouts before that, but at least that was still when he was still in the UFC, still fighting best guys in the world. No shame and getting knocked out by Rashad Evans. no shame of getting knocked out by Rich Franklin and things like that. But, you know, 51-year-old Chuck getting laid out by Tito, or no one wants that. You know what I mean? You don't want that.

No. So, like, you and I've had that conversation. You're just in a different place. And I wanted you to say that publicly because I know it. We've had this conversation off air before. I know what kind of savage you are. And I know how much you love fight. This has nothing to do with, you know, I just can't walk away or, you know, I don't want to let you

love this shit. Like, you love fighting. like that I know it sounds funny, but that's why I wanted you to say it because for anyone's like, why does he need to do this? You don't need to do this. You want to do this.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And I also think that I can still perform at a higher level than most guys my age. You know, we take like a Chuck, for example, I think he probably knew walking into that last fight at 51, where he was at, right?

He knew he wasn't performing at his high stuff. at a high level, at least. He knew what he was getting into. He knew what was going on. I'm self-aware, too, and I know that, I mean, if you watch my last fight, like, I think I performed very well against a guy who's had some really good wins.

And, you know, I thought I won the fight. Most people thought that I won the fight. So, you know, knowing that I can still do that, it, you know, doesn't shy me away from continuing. Whereas, you know, I think I will know, right? when that day comes and, you know, I think I have people around me that are honest with me too. And they're like, bro, you are not doing what you could or should be doing, right?

And I still have the desire for it. I'm around positive people. And, yeah, I just love it, man. And I think that's a lot of people, a lot of these fighters, they know it, and then they still go in there and don't perform. And they know that they're not, but still keep doing it. I think we may have seen one of them this weekend like that. uh show gun right the the show gun that we seen last weekend was not the show gun that he did not

perform to the level of a show gun that we all know and love and uh it's disappointing to see and you have to wonder what his uh motivations were for that you know maybe he just wanted a retirement fight maybe he was doing it for money you know whatever reason it was you know more power to him we all love showgun but uh that's different than me though yeah it's funny you say that because Because, like, I feel like I know you well enough and have been around you well enough to where I can, I, we've had honest conversations, like, off the air. And I have no problem having an honest conversation with somebody I consider a friend and, you know, it has nothing to do with being on the air with the podcast. If I felt that way, I'd tell you, Matt, I think you know me well enough to, no, I'd be honest with you. Like, I'd tell you that.

I don't feel that way. And you bring up Shogun's a great point. that was watching Shogun and this is nothing against Ehor Pataria I'm not trying to take a shot at him so it's going to sound like I am

but I swear I'm not watching Shogun get knocked out by a guy named Ehor Potaria who I'd heard of only one he fought in the UFC one time and the main reason I remembered him is because when he fought he was from Ukraine and when that whole conflict started with Ukraine and Russia I remembered him

and Marina Rose and a couple of Ukrainian fighters so it kind of stuck in my head watching Shogun getting knocked out by that dude was sad it was sad like we don't want to see show like we don't want to see showgun go out in general but you really don't want to see him go out against

some kind of unknown no name guy on a random prelim of we want to see Shogun and Machita we want to see Shogun and Nogara you know we don't like that and listen does the UFC take some fault in that like a little bit and not giving him like maybe

that kind of like legendary matchup to go out on you know what I mean they maybe give him because machina volunteer machina's like bring me back let's have one more fight I was like ooh that's a fun idea of course the Ossi didn't do it but like Ehor Patera like really that's like it just it was sad and and like it just reminds me like how rarely I said it in the recap I wrote for the story I said MMA very rarely off as a fairy tale ending you know what I mean like Khabib and GSP are like the two guys who got on on top you know what I mean? But there's a million examples of guys who just like, I understand the love and the desire and the passion, but at some point you have to walk away.

And at some point it's just not there anymore. You're in a different case. I've seen you train. I know what kind of savage you are. I know what you're doing in the gym. I know the guys you're training with. And I was at your fight with Brian Barbarina. Absolutely nothing against Brian Barbarina.

He's an incredible dude. Actually, really nice guy on top of that. I thought you won the fight. And we saw what Brian went out in David Robbie Lawler. Like, he's an incredibly good fighter. you won that fight or at worst, you know, came out on the wrong end of a bad decision, you're not in a showgun position. And I'm not trying to turn this back on you, but I'm saying, like, talking about Shogun,

like, I just, I didn't want to see him fight that night. And I didn't want to see him fight Ehor Potaira. And I don't want my last image of Shogun Huah to be him getting knocked out by by Ehor Patire, like just like the Chuck LaDelle thing. Like, I don't want that to be my lasting image. And again, five years from now we'll probably forget about it. We'll try to remember the good times him soccer kick and rampage. and, you know, beating force, Griffin to become chay, all those things.

But right now in the moment, what's my lasting image of Shogun? It's him getting knocked out by some dude that I couldn't, you could put me in a, you could put a gun to my head and put a lineup and I couldn't pick him out of the lineup. Yeah, that's exactly right. And the sad part about the whole thing is like, you know, was it, you know, why did Shogun go out there? That's, again, kind of what I go back to is, you know, what was Shogun's ultimate goal with this fight, you know, was he out there, like, did he put everything he had into this training camp to win?

Or did he go out because he needed a paycheck? And they seem more like the latter, right? And when you're going up against a young up-and-common lion that's going to be hungry like that, you're going to have to put everything you have into it, you know, and whatever happens, right? But if he's not putting everything he has into it, then it's probably best to him. he walked away and, you know, looking at a, you know, he got knocked out. But, you know, my question is, did he put everything into it?

Yeah. For, you know, to relate on my own side. It's like, I know that I can and will put everything into it. And if I don't, then that's when I will personally know when this time, right? And I wonder if other guys look at it that way. I'm not sure. I haven't really talked to the fighters about this ever before. but it's just a matter of like,

are you fully committing still to the process? Are you putting in 100% every day? Do you have that discipline or motivation, which is two different things, right? So you're going to have to have one or the other. And a lot of these guys, you know, they don't look like they're putting everything into it. And, you know, whether I win, lose, get knocked out or whatever,

just knowing that you put everything into it. And then you can look at as in, okay knocked out. For instance, like I got TK. by Miguel Beza, right? You know, young, up and comer, explosive, strong guy, tough. And I knew that I didn't put everything

into it. And that is a bad feeling. And that's when you start thinking, okay, should I retire? And I took down a little bit of a short notice and everything, so that's a little bit different. But if I have a full camp and everything and then you're not putting everything into it, that's

when I think you have to question whether you should keep doing this. Whereas if you're fully committed and then you go out and maybe you lose after a full commitment and a full training camp, then you can look at yourself objectively, say, okay, maybe my body can't hold up anymore, which is a little different than, you know, whether you're actually able to put everything you have into it, if that makes sense. Yeah. Well, it's funny you say that because there's two different, like, there's a, there's a world where you can lose a fight and retire, and you still kind of go out on top.

And I think a great example of that was on Saturday, and I would Glover to share it. He lost pretty lopsided fashion. Jamal Hill looked incredible, put a beating on him really bad. And there were a couple moments where I'm like, you could probably stop this and I'd be okay with it. And Glover just, you know, tough bastard, man.

He would just would not go down. But afterwards, he's like, that's it. You know, I'm not doing it anymore. I can't really hang with these guys. I'll put on my focus on Alex Pereira and focus on him and kind of move on to the next phase in my career. And he lost, but he was fighting in a title fight of a division he was the champion of less than a year ago. You know what I mean? Like that to me was okay. Like I'm not

going to, what am I going to remember by Glover to share? I remember this guy was a freaking legend who fought everybody, beat most of them, tough, one of the toughest dudes in the history of the sport. And even in the fifth round, when I fully, I was fully of the, of the mindset, you know what, you could probably stop this right now. Like I don't really need to see him come out for five more minutes. He still got a takedown, got on top. I tweeted, I was like, if Glover pulls this off, I was like, holy crap, if he pulls this off, he didn't, of course, he lost a fight.

But again, that's the way you could lose and go out on top, right? Like, he didn't go out as champion. He didn't come off a win. But who lost any, I didn't lose respect for Shogga. Let me be clear about that. But, like, who, who, who was going to leave with a bad image of Glover to share after him going out like that? Like, yeah, he lost.

But man, that dude's a legend. at the way he went out. He went on top against one of the best guys in the world, gave everything, had his moments. You know, yeah, he lost, but he had a couple good moments in there. He kept swinging for the fences. I didn't get that with Shogun. When Shogun's fight was over, I was like sad. I was like, oh, this is just depressing.

Like, I just, that's the difference. Glover lost, but I was like, dude, what a freaking way to go out. Like, what an amazing performance to go out on. Shogun was like the exact opposite. Yeah, and I think that's a little bit of the difference between being forced out and deciding to walk out, right? Yeah, I mean, that's... Like, we could watch Shugan's fight

say, look, he needs to get out. He knew it. You know, we're not being overly critical or anything by saying that. I think he knows that he can look at himself and say that very clearly. And... But whereas Glover was kind of like, look, I'm done.

I'm out of here. This is it for me. But if he really wanted to keep fighting, he could. Right? There's a lot of guys he's still beating in the division. Oh, there's a long list of guys in the top 10 in that light heavyweight division he beats. You know what I mean? Without a doubt, like without a doubt in my mind.

Exactly. So that's exactly my point, right? So we all want to go out like Glover, you know, whether, you know, he went until the wheels fell off until he couldn't compete as a champion anymore. He could obviously still compete as a great fighter. He can't compete as a champion anymore. He gave it everything he had. his championship wheels that fell off his real you know wheels to fight haven't fallen off and he's

choosing his time and that's the way we want to go out let me ask this matt because one of the other big subjects i mentioned of course a minute ago about glover with the fight like i the fourth round ended i was like you know what i'd be okay if they just stopped this like he was taking a lot of shots a lot of damage again super tough guy wouldn't go down but man i was just like this is getting a little uncomfortable because he was getting beat up pretty bad, cuts all over the play, it's just really bad. And then you look at the situation with Lauren Hill,

Lauren Hill, Lauren, Lauren Murphy earlier in the night against Jessica Androsse, and she just, I mean, she absorbed more significant strikes over three rounds, the second most in history behind Nate Diaz and Donald Serroney. And Lauren's been on Twitter being very vocal, you know, saying that, you know,

she doesn't think her corner should take any kind of, you know, she wanted to continue. she doesn't blame her corner for not stopping the fight and all these kind of things. And this is not. I don't want to turn this into like a let's jump on Lauren Murphy. I really want to ask you, Matt, because we've had, I've had this conversation with Anthony Smith after his fight with Glover to share it, funny enough, where he, you know, he didn't want his corner to stop to fight.

He's like, I don't want, you know, my corner knows. But I've also had a long conversation with other fighters where other people have said, like, you know, um, you know, we fighters have to be protected from themselves sometimes. Like you are the toughest people in the world. You will walk through broken glass and fire if that's what it takes to get to a fight. You're built differently than me, Matt. I understand that. And I fully admit to that.

I am not trying to compare myself to a fighter. Trust me. But there are moments where I'm like, live to fight another day. And with Lauren Murphy, that was a perfect example of that where I was just like, you know what? This fight's only going one way. It's only getting worse. And to me, the long-term damage that she could potentially. suffer from is not worth an extra two minutes in the fight or three minutes of a fight that

she was clearly not going to win. I don't know. I want to get your opinion on this because I think it's a bit of a double-edged sword because I think that I understand where fighters come from, where Lauren Murphy says, I didn't want the fight to be stopped. I understand where Anthony Smith comes from saying, I tell my coaches, do not stop. I get it. But then I also see the optics of it and the long-term damage of it.

And I'm just like, man, I just. I want to get your opinion on this because you are one of those savages, Matt. You are the guy who doesn't want to stop until you are stopped. The Baiza fights is a great example of that where, you know, did he stop it early? Probably a little early. You know what I mean? Like you would have liked to go out on your shield. That's different, but you, I always bring up to Pete Sell fight.

You know, your Pete Sell, you were beating the, I mean, you, like I said, dude, he must have owed Eve Levine money that night or something because he just kept letting that guy just get punched and beat on until you're basically like, will you please stop this fight? I don't know. You tell me because it's an ugly situation. Like I feel like, you know, there's got to be times where corners have to step up and save a fighter from themselves. No, I totally agree. And I don't think it's a double-edged sword.

I think it's a single-edged sword. And that's a corner's job. And you know what? If my corner ever stops the fight, I'm going to get pissed at them. But guess what? I'm also going to thank them later, right, assuming they made a good, educated decision.

And that's one of their primary jobs as a corner is to see the fight objectively, knowing your athlete, knowing if there's a true path to victory for their athlete. And I don't think that it is as common as, like we're always, you know, MMA is crazy, right? So we're always like, dude, there's still that chance, man. You know, like, you know, Anderson Silva Chal Sona, there's that chance. that's rare though and you know

these guys you work with their corners and they know their athletes so well and they know they've seen them in training get through these hard practices and come back from injuries and deal with things that is unrealistic

for normal people to deal with and in that third fourth or fifth round the whole time the corner's thinking men you know they still got a chance like this is my guy, you know, they got a chance. I think that's an egotistical way to look at it. Like you have to

look at it objectively and your job as a corner, not your primary job, but one of your main jobs is to protect your fighter. And you see it in boxing when they lose, when they when there's no longer a clear path to victory for the fighter, they stop it.

And it's one thing where there's not a clear path to victory, but now there's not a clear path to victory and you're taking shots. You have to jump in and stop the fight. you know, I'm a savage motherfucker. I want to see headbuts brought back. I want to see bare knuckles. I want to see kicks to the downed opponents.

You know, I want all this stuff. But I also would like to see corners be real coaches and be real corners and step up and stop it for their men. I would never tell my corner, you know, don't stop the fight. no matter what or like I'm going to fire you if you stop it or something like that. Again, I would be totally angry. I would be frustrated and hateful at my corner for doing that in the moment. But 20 years from now, I'm going to look back and say, hey, man, you know, thank you for doing that, buddy.

Yeah. You are a corner. Obviously, you've corner fighters in the UFC before you've been there. And this is not, this is, I don't want to turn this into like, let's knock on Lorne Murphy. Because I've had Lorne Murphy as a coast on this show. like Lauren very much and I respect the hell out of her and respect her coaches, all that. If you were in her corner that night, would you have stopped it? Would you have said, you know, enough's enough?

I think this is going the wrong way. Because again, my opinion is one thing, and I do have an opinion about this, but Matt, you're a fighter and a coach. Like, you've been there. You know what it's like to be in a corner, and I'm sure, you know, every situation's different. You're going to know your fighter better than I know them. So if you see something in their eyes and they're still going and maybe it looks to the outside

world like we should probably stop this. So I am asking you an outsider's perspective because you don't know Lauren the way her coaches know her. But in that situation would you have felt comfortable stopping the fight? First, knowing the fighter doesn't mean anything other than do you see a clear path to victory

for them, right? And it was clear she had no path to victory and she was taking shots that she wasn't going to stop taking shots and she and there was no clear path of victory. So with that said, yes, I would have stopped it from watching it on TV. There's things that you see live, you know,

when you're two feet or five feet away from your other action, then maybe they see that you don't see on TV, which is, I think, pretty rare and probably not the case. But if I was in her corner, I would have stopped that fight, yes. Yeah. It's just, it's one of those things where we have, I think we have a weird, we do. I mean, we do.

I'm just not, it's not, I think. I know we have a weird stigma. in this sport where, you know, we ignore the fact that fighters are the toughest people on earth. And because of that, you can't ever, because of that somehow throwing in a towel or even tapping out is seen as vulnerability. It's bullshit. It's absolute bullshit because, like, I remember when I trained jujitsu, when I did, again, let me be clear, I was very, very low level.

But when I trained, I remember one time I got caught in an arm bar and I was so, convinced against a smaller guy. I was so convinced I could basically power it, but I could not technique. He had me in a technique I could not escape from. But I was convinced I could power out of it because I was so much bigger and stronger than this guy. And I tried to power out of it. And he hyper extended my elbow. I had a pinched nerve and I couldn't, I couldn't do anything for like a month after that. It sucked real, real bad. And that was all ego. All ego. I was done. I was caught. He caught me. He wasn't trying to hurt me. He was not. trying, this was 100% on me. This wasn't a bad training partner who just decided to, you know,

hurt my arm. This was me just ripping at my own arm trying to prove that I could break free of the hold. And I didn't and I hurt myself for it. That was my own ego telling me that I just shouldn't give up. This idea that you can't tap or that you shouldn't throw in the towel that somehow makes you look weaker is such shit. I'm not saying that is the case with Lauren or Glover to share either, by the way. I'm not saying they're, they're thinking. that. I'm just saying like there is the stigma in the sport that exists that when you do those kind of things

like suddenly they think like it's like for people, you know Matt, you've heard this. For years people gave George St. Pierre shit for tapping out to Matt Sarah for strikes when he was just getting the absolute brakes beating off him and they said, oh he tapped out to strikes, that's weak. How is that weak? He knew he wasn't

going to win. He knew the fight was over. Is he supposed to lose a few extra brain cells to appease you? Because you think he's not tough enough? Right. And there's a, it's a fighter's job. Like, it's completely different. I would never expect a fighter to quit or, or throw in their own towel or whatever.

That's the corner's job. Their job is to fight through the fire. If they tap out from strikes like GSP or something, you know, I don't have any, I don't think any less of them by any means. But if they also, if they don't tap out, they don't throw the towel. I think that's, that's not their job. Their job is to walk through the fire, walk over the broken glass, and walk through anything and keep coming forward and keep fighting. That's why we're called fighters. That's the literal definition of fighters.

So, you know, it's getting, it comes down to the corner. That's their job. That's the separate argument has nothing to do with us. So there's two complete different subjects, in my opinion. Yeah, I just think it's so, I just think it's so weird, like, you know, it's just, I don't know, like, I get it. And again, like you said, in the moment you'd be pissed off, right? Like, you'd be upset. But there's going to be a time where you're probably sitting with your kids,

like a year from now, two years from now afterwards. You're like, you know what? Like, probably was good that I didn't take an extra 15 headshots in that third round when I was a winning or what you know what I mean? Like, hindsight is everything. And I get it. Like, I get it. Again, no one's questioning your toughness.

No one's questioning Lauren Murphy's toughness. And I'd say the same thing to Glover. Like Glover going in now, did Grant, did Glover get a takedown in that fifth round? and maybe for a brief shining moment looked like maybe he was going to pull off a comeback. Yeah. But would I have had any problem of his corner after the fourth round said, you know what?

It's done. I would have been completely okay of Glover to share his corner said, no mas. You know, like, it's just, he's taken so much punishment. And because this guy is so durable and has such an incredible chin, he just won't go down. I've said it a million times on this show and other podcast, Matt, and I think we've had this conversation before.

Like, having a great chin is, is a double-edged, that's a double-edged short because you can take the punishment, but when you have a great chin, that's also meaning you're taking punishment, right? Like when you're Roy Nelson or you're Mark Hunt and you're just getting blasted on for five rounds or three rounds or whatever and you stand up to it, we're all like, man, that's amazing, what an incredible chin. But at some point it all catches up to you. At some point at all, like eventually Roy Nelson's, the sand and the hourglass ran out.

He started getting hit and he started going. down because you can't take 400 shots forever and not think that it's going to hurt you. You know what I mean? Like defense is real. You know, you have to have defense and that whole, you know, your durrant. That is a, that it can be a detriment to you too. Glover to share is one of the toughest people I've ever seen in that cage. But maybe taking 300 headshots in a four or five round fights, probably not a good idea.

Yeah. Yeah. And again, I think a lot of it comes down to knowing your fighter well enough to see if there's a clear path to victory. With Glover, at least I can say, look, he did still have a path to victory. I felt like, you know, and he proved it, like getting that takedown in the fifth round. And, you know, there's a lot of guys that can go there, Glover gets that take down or not going to be able survive it. And can we talk about Jamal Hill's impressive ground game in that fight? I mean, this guy, I don't, I think this was the whole reason. I think we both picked him to get into

him and that was the reason, right? Nobody expected him to hang with Glover on the ground. And he fucking did, man. So, you know, you got to, you know, more, more power to him, props to him, man. He got it done. He looked tremendous. I mean, what an athlete, you know, so, but there was, you know, on the subject, there was still a path to victory for Glover, I felt like. Yeah, more so than the Lauren Murphy thing. But again, if they stopped it after round four, I would have been okay with that, is what I'm getting at. Like, I would have been okay with that. Like, I, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not, like, fifth round he came out, surprised we got to take down, as you said, path to victory.

But I would have been completely okay if his corner was like, you know what, we're good. You know, like it's okay. Like there's no shame in this. And again, like I said, every, every case is different. There are times when people are calling to stop the fight and throw in the town. I'm like, slow down. Like, you know, like, listen, I understand we all, we all have the safety of the fighters in our best hearts and concerns.

We get all that. But there are times even when we're on Twitter and I see people like, go throw in the town. I'm like slow down, slow down a little bit. But in both of those cases, like the fights were not doing, when you have multiple 10, eight rounds against you for strikes, not like nearly caught in submissions or whatever, there's, like I said, you're fighting for diminishing returns at that point, you know? And I just, it's weird to me that like, we still have, and I get it.

Like, fighters are built different. You're, again, I keep saying, Matt, you're built different than me. I get it. I totally get it. You will do things I will not do. I would also add that in a championship fight, I would definitely be less likely to throw in the towel too. You know, like again,

Lauren Murphy was fighting for, you know, top 10 spot, but, you know, it wasn't a championship title fight for Glover specifically. So I probably wouldn't have stopped Glover's fight specifically if I was in his corner. And the reason, you know, two, for one, again, it's a championship fight, which is a little bit different.

And for two, they knew it was Glover's last fight. I was like, let them go for it, you know? And again, and for three, there was still a clear path to victory. When you put all those things together, like, I could see where it's questioned. If they did throw in the towel, I wouldn't have been mad at all. I wouldn't have thought they were mishandling the situation by any means. But I understood that one. The Lauren Murphy one, I think they should have thrown the towel.

I would have found it out. There just wasn't a path to victory. She was the lesser type of getting beat up by the better fighter. Yeah, no, I 100% agree. As you mentioned, Jamal Hill did have an incredible performance. Of course, Brandon Moreno went out there and finally finished his rivalry with Devis and Figuera. That was incredible fight.

Gilbert Burns, how good did Gilbert Burns look, man? Neil Magny, super tell you train with Neil Magny. You know Neil very well. Gilbert Burns looked incredible, man. He went out there and dominated, got that first round finish. He had a statement to make. and boy, did he make it. That was an incredible performance from Gilbert Burns.

Yeah, it sucks for Neil, man. I'm always cheering for him. Love that guy. Probably the nicest guy in the sport. Like we talked about the nice guys in the sport. There's lots of them. Neil, I don't know if there's a nicer human being on the planet, as a matter of fact.

Just one of the best guys. Love the guy. Of course, Gilbert, he's an awesome guy too. But he had a perfect game plan and just executed it to a team. You just, man, I mean, what's next for me? either Balal or Colby, right? I mean, I think it's going to end up being Bilal because Colby, like, it's weird. Like, Colby's just disappeared.

Like, and I get it. He's got this whole legal situation hanging over his head with Mazadol. And maybe it's a legal thing where because he's involved in this situation, he can't, like, fight right now because I know he claimed, like, brain damage or whatever. And I'm not, I'm not mocking him. But let me be clear. I'm not mocking him. I'm trying to make fun of him for this.

Like, he's involved in a real legal situation. And trust me, I don't, I don't. I don't justify Masvidol running up and punching somebody. You know, you had five rounds to do it in a fight. You couldn't do it. You don't get a do-over just because you're pissed at you lost and you run up and punch to do. Do I think words have consequences? Yes.

But, again, you had five rounds to do that. You didn't do it. So I'm not defending Colby Covington, but he does seem to have some legal situations that need to be cleared up. It's been almost a year since he's fought. At some point, we have to move on. though. Like, I'm not knocking the guy, but if he's not going to fight and he's not going to do something, then we've got to move on. You know, I don't know what Hamzot's doing.

I still think Hamza would be better served at middleweight. I think there's a clear path for him to the title at middleweight, if I'm being honest. Do Bilow and Gilbert. That's a good fight. They're both coming off wins. Below's looked incredible. We know Leon's fighting Usman in March, so they're not going to fight either one of them anytime soon. Gilbert and Palau's a fun fight. Just book it. Yeah, I think I'm right there. I think that's a really, really good fight. And I don't have a picket.

I'm 50-50 on that one. You know, that's a great fight, man. I probably lean towards Belaw a little bit myself, just because I'm being on blah. I think he puts on such a great pace and has so much feel very underrated. But, man, that'd be a very, very exciting fight. I want to see that.

I'm with you on Hamza, too. He needs to go up to 185. Yeah, and I just think, like, this, we have this obsession with booking certain fights, and I know the UFC's kind of been stuck on booking Hamza and Colby, but, I mean, at this point, when do we move on? Like, when do we, you know what I mean? Like, when do we, because how is it that Leon and Usman are going to fight twice

in less time that it's going to take for a number one contender to be determined? You know what I mean? Like, they're going to fight twice, and we still have no clarity. Like, Colby hasn't fought since last March. Homzaid hasn't fought at 170 since last April when he fought Gilbert. You know, Bilow's been on a streak. Like, Bilau's the one who's got probably the best argument to say, hey, I've been putting on like this huge win streak.

Like, can we get this moving so I can get a title shot? You know, or do Hamzaa, or do Hamzaa, or do Hamzaa? If you're going to, if you're going to insist on Hamzaa being a 170, let him fight Bilau and determine the number one. Do something. Like, I just, this whole sitting around and waiting thing, and the one guy who's not been doing it has been Belaw. Muhammad. And I'm not, by the way, not saying Gilbert's been sitting away because Gilbert was

calling for a fight. He was like, after I talked to him right after the Hamzaa fight. He's like, I want to fight this summer. I want to fight like September. They couldn't find him a fight. He was going to fight Mazadal, couldn't come together. Then it got close enough to the Brazil event where he's like, well, let me fight at home. I understood that. He just fought. Either give him a fight, let Bilal fight Hamzat or do something so that way when Usman and Edwards are done, we can actually have a number one contender because we don't right now. We have no idea

as the number one contender in that division. Yeah, I'm right there with you. I want to see it, man. And he just sort it out. Yeah, and it needs to be done sooner rather than later. Like, we're just sitting around a way. And I get it. I get it.

You get kind of fixated on a fight. You know, I want to see Hamzat and Colby. I get it. But Colby's not fighting and hasn't fought in almost a year. Move on. You know, Hamzat hasn't made $170 in almost a year. move on. Do Bilow and Gilbert Burns on the winner gets a title shot? Or do Bilow and Homza. If you think Hamzat's the guy, give him Bilal. Can he hang with

Bilau for five rounds? I got questions about that, Matt. I don't know that Hamza can hang with Blau for five rounds. Can he beat him in the first round? If he catches him, puts him down, sure. Can he do it for five rounds? I don't know about that. Yep, that's what we were talking about just a couple weeks ago. Right? And boy, I got a lot of hate on Twitter for it, man. But look, the fact is the matchup-wise, skill versus skills, style versus style, I mean, Belaw creates a lot of problems for Hamzaa. And that's a fact, skill versus skill, Hamzaa creates a lot of problems for Belal. And that's what we, that's the best type of fight, right? We don't know what's going to happen one way or another. It's the

best side to fight to watch. Here's the thing. We put out the, the, you talked about Balau on the podcast and you kind of picked him as your guy going into 2023 and you got a lot of hate on that. Here's the reality, Matt, and I'm just going to put it out there because I've had Bilau on this show and I've had him co-host this show before. Bilow might be like the most hated guy, like unfairly hated guy, you know, on Twitter and stuff because he's not afraid to call for what he wants. He's very vocal about that. And people pick their favorites. You know what I mean? Like people pick their favorites and it is what it is and it's not anyone's fault necessarily, but I just don't understand how you can deny Below.

Like every time you question the guy, he proves people wrong. Like when he fought Vicente Lucke, that was a fight. He was set up to lose. Vicente knocked him out in like three minutes when they fought a few years ago. He went out there and handled Vicente Lucke. They set him up against Sean Brady. Everyone said Sean Brady's the next guy. He's the next big thing.

Below didn't have much to gain in that fight because Sean was ranked below him, didn't have the resume, all those kind of things. Belaw knocked him out in the second round. What else can this guy do to earn some damn respect? I'm right there with you, you know, and, you know, Belaw doesn't get the marketing. I feel like like a Hamzaa, right? So that's why the people don't necessarily buy into it as much.

And they hate on, they don't think he's got all this and that. I'm a professional fighter. I've watched guys for many years, and I've studied this sport for a very long time. I can tell you, Belaw has problems for everyone. He can, skill for skill, he can lose to a lot of, like Leon picked him apart. Leon was on his way to win that fight. Like, they're hard to believe Belaw was going to win that fight. Skill for skill, he's a beatable guy, style for style.

He creates a lot of bad matchups for a lot of these guys in the division. Yeah, absolutely. And here's the thing, I've said this for years. Well, Jouet's a snake pit. It's as good as any division in the sport. You know, you got guys like Shavkat Rockmanoff, who's not even ranked in top five yet. That guy's a monster. You know, he's fighting Jeff Neal.

That's an incredible fight. You look at a guy like Wonderboy. Everyone wrote Wonderboy off because he lost to Gilbert and he lost, he lost to Bilaud. And he was like, oh, Wonderboy's washed. And he goes out there and puts on a master class against Kevin Holland. And Kevin Holland's a really good fighter. This division is just so good. You know what I mean?

And for a guy like Bilow to be on whatever it is, like a nine fight unbeaten streak or a 10 fight unbeaten streak. Like, do you realize how hard that is in this division? Like, it's not easy to put that kind of resume together. You know, put some respect on this man's name because he's done nothing but earn it over and over and over again. And listen, I get Gilbert. You know, Gilbert was kind of upset that Bilow took his ranking without them fighting and he kind of got a little upset. Apparently Bilal was offered the fight in January and he turned it down or said he didn't want to go to Brazil or he had stuff going on. I don't know the whole story.

I get it. okay, then book Gilbert and Bilau. Let's fight them and see who wins, and then, you know, we'll move on. But this whole waiting for fights to be made is getting annoying because, like, I get it. Homsat and Colby would be a big fight. It would be a great fight. I think Colby, for all the weird, stupid things that guy says, he's an incredible fighter. And I think that'd be a really interesting test because same way the Below pushes the pace for five rounds.

So does Colby Covington. And Colby's a pretty damn good wrestler. Could Colby out work Comzot? Maybe. That's amazing. Yeah, that's an amazing fire right there. I would love to see him in so many good matchups. And I wish I would bring back tournaments sometimes.

You know, just bracket it up and who you fight to, you got to fight. Let's go. Let's see who's the best. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by

Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training tread plus at OnePeloton.ca. Yeah, absolutely. Real quick, for I get out of here, we talked earlier about taking a little bit undue damage, undue, undue punishment in a fight. I got to ask Matt, I got to bring this up because we saw it last week.

The debut of Power Slap made his debut. Let me say this real quick. Let me say this real quick. I don't have any interest in this. I'm not going to cover it. I am not going to pretend that it's real, that it's a real sport. It's not. The only reason I'm bringing it up is because as much as this has gotten a promotion from the UFC and from Dana White and whatever, it's a business move.

I would wager to say like 95% of fighters have been like, this is stupid. Like this is not good to just get there and let yourself get blasted in the head multiple times. It's like brain damage. It's like brain damage television is all it is. I'm curious, Matt, as one of the toughest people in the world and one of the toughest people I personally know, would you sign up for slap fight? Because that would be the time when we'd have a conversation.

I'm like, Matt, Matt, it's not worth it, buddy. No, I signed up for those slat league, man. But I'll tell you what, it's fucking stupid. It's Cushin Central. It's the worst sport. It's not a sport. It's the worst thing I've ever seen, and I fucking love it. I'll fucking watch it.

I hate even supporting it, but it's fucking fun to watch, man. It is hilarious. And it's just, it's, I don't know. It's like watching a fucking, like,

family guy episodes. I'm just so stupid. It's funny, man. And I just, I just want to see it. I don't know. See,

now I like family guy. Family guy cracks me up. You know the difference, Matt? Family guy is a cartoon and they're not actually taking brain damage. Yes. That's where I run into, that's like,

again, I, like, I run into, that's where I run head, first into this whole like power slap thing because it's just like you're just like it's like at least in mhm a you can say like okay Lauren Murphy took undue damage but guess what? Lauren Murphy was still defending herself she was still standing she could try to block punches she

could try to sleep there's no blocking punches there's no slipping punches you're just letting some other dude or some other woman just blast you in the head with a shot and that just seems like the dumbest. That just seems like the dumbest idea ever. It is. And I agree with you. It's dumb and it's cringe and it's just horrible and it's just the worst thing ever. And I love it still. I don't know. Like, you know, Dana, whatever promotion he put out there, like it sucked me in. I kind of like it. I hope it doesn't stick around. Like, I don't think I'm going to enjoy it for a long time or anything. But dude, I don't know. I watched it a little bit.

bit and I was like, this is kind of fun to watch, man. I don't know why. Is it, hate all, hate me. Everybody can hate me all their blood. Is it, is it kind of like, is it kind of like, I know we all have this like car car car crash mentality. Like, you know, when you drive by a car crash, everyone slows down to look and see. And, you know, you're not rooting for the person to be hurt.

You're not rooting for someone to die in a car accident, certainly not. At least I hope not. But we all get fascinated. I think that's, I think, that's what I think. that's what I think slap fighting is or power slap whatever the hell they want to call it that's what it is the problem is I think it's a novelty act and the novelty eventually runs out like it's not like I can't I have a hard time believing that we're going to run out like some random Viking dude named Bam Bam is going to you know be in there and we're going to follow his

career and fall in love with this guy buy his t-shirts and so no this is this is a novelty act We're watching it for the highlights to watch some dude or some girl get absolutely blasted and fall over. That's my problem. That's my problem. Yeah, Family Guy maybe was a bad analogy. It's more like watching Fail Nation, right? I put on Fail Army, the channel on my TV day. People falling over, wrecking their skateboards, doing completely stupid things.

I love that shit. I guess there's like a time of the place for it. Or there's a certain viewer that likes it like me. But it's not going to last. I'm with you. It's a novelty. It's a stupid novelty that's going to last for maybe a couple months and, you know, and then never watch it again. Now, Romanian butsop fighting is different.

You know what it's, you know what it's comparable to, Matt? Honestly, you know it's comparable to it. And I'm guilty of this. It's jackass. It's jackass. It's Johnny. It's Johnny. It's Johnny Knoxville.

It's Steveo. It's watching these guys do incredibly dumb, stupid things with their bodies, and we laugh our asses off at it. I just, I watch Jackass. I like Jackass. I think Jackass is hilarious. I watched every movie they put out. I just went to, I went to the theater to see the last one.

It was hilarious. So I'm guilty of it. I like watching Stivo in Flick Pain. I get it. I'm full, I'm guilty of it. But, like, I don't know. weird to like as a prank or as a joke to watch them do dumb things like letting an alligator bite them or or letting a bull come after them in a bull fighting ring like I don't know why

we all enjoy jackass but there's just something weird about just voluntarily watching a dude just literally just blast you with an open hand strike and not even defend yourself I don't know it's weird I can't I like I understand why people don't like it because I don't like it But then I bring up Jackass and I'm like, well, I do like Jackass. And that's basically the same thing because they're just harming themselves for our entertainment. Yeah. At least Jackass is creative, though, right? And that's what I said.

That's why you said it perfectly that Slack Fighting is a novelty. For me, I love it right now. I know in a month or two, I'm not going to enjoy this, right? Like if Jackass, if they went on there and did the same thing, the same prank every time, it wouldn't be fun anymore. But they do something different every time. They did the same thing every time. it wouldn't be funny. The power of slap fighting is the same thing every time.

So it's funny the first time I enjoy it. It doesn't have anything lasting, any lasting value to it at all. Yeah, it's not, I doubt there's going to be a year from now. You're like, man, Bobo, the Slap Fighter is my favorite slap fighter. I'm buying his T-shirt. I have a hard time believing you're going to do that.

Yeah, I'm not. I can tell you I'm not but right now I'm very attracted to it maybe maybe Dana's marketing scheme worked on me and I'm all about it love watching it and I recognize

how stupid it is it I realize I'm like a little 15 year old kid here getting into it but right now man I kind of enjoy it bro I got to tell you. Listen I I don't enjoy it and I don't want it and I don't want to watch it but I appreciate your honesty and saying

it is stupid. It's not good for your health. You know, like you're not, you're not endorsing it. You're just saying you enjoy watching it. Exactly. Like,

it was entertaining to me. I don't know why. But the, again, the Romanian butt slap fighting was also very entertaining. I don't know. I have not seen Romanian butt slap. I have not seen this.

I'm going to have to send it on Instagram. Literally, it's literally slap fighting, but they go, these girls slap each other's butts. until one of quits. That's a Romanian butt slap fighting. I might sign up for that one.

A lot less damage taken to the old brain on that one. Well, Romanian butt slap fighting. I might sign up for that, not so much on the whole power slap thing. Anyways, that is our show for this week, Matt. I did not imagine we would finish on Romanian butt slap fighting, but it is what it is. That's how we end the show.

I don't know how we start with you coming back to fight again to Romanian butt slap fighting. but that's how we that's how we do on this podcast maybe we should talk about Romanian butt slap fighting every time we'll start buying their t-shirts and start exciting getting autographs from them start covering that sport you should you should invite one of the Romanian butt-slappers to walk down to the cage with you when you fight again I think that would be pretty cool maybe I will maybe this should be maybe we should start covering this sport on the podcast regular

Yeah, maybe that's the way to go. That's the way to go. Well, I know... That's true. That's true. Well, I know one thing we talked about off air, and I'm actually really fascinated by this, is because if you got, you're going to book a fight in the near future, we're going to get Fight Camp Matt Brown on this podcast.

I'm excited about that. Now, obviously, you know, Fight Week, we'll probably... I'll give you the day off for that one. We'll give you the day off for Fight Week. But Fight Camp, Fight Camp, Matt Brown, and Aftermath... Because it's fun. It's part of the fun of doing Fighter versus Rider and having a fighter on here is your, again, your perspective is better and different than mine when it comes to fighting because, again, I'm allowed to have an opinion as a journalist, but you are a fighter. But also, like, the week leading in the fight, the training camp, like all the little things, like we do interviews, but actually having you come in week to week is a fascinating week.

We really haven't done that. You talked about it before. Like, part of the reason we couldn't keep doing our old podcast because of how kind of labor intensive it was of doing like four. hours in studio. It was just too hard. But doing this is a lot easier because, you know, jump on Zoom for 45 minutes an hour and you're out the door and you're going to have 45 minutes to an hour most days to do whatever you want anyway. So this works out better. But I am actually fascinated to get camp Matt Brown on this podcast. Yeah, I think I'll enjoy it, man. It's a little bit of a big getaway for me too. It keeps me entertained and, you know,

I enjoy doing it. And I'll keep you guys update on, you know, what it feels like going through by camp. I'm sure you have some good questions and getting that week by week. update on fight camp is a little different than you know when you talk to a fighter when you interview them and you get one day out of the whole fight camp and you're probably just most of the time asking the standard questions and you know try to dig as deep as you can but not really getting you know you kind of have to ask what you have to ask right so yeah it'll almost be like a blog I guess and of course we'll talk about everything else going on in the world of mMA also but but I think we'll have some fun with it.

And, of course, I'll come up to visit the gym as well. I'll come up to the Immortal Training Center and check out everything going up there. I always, I don't think I've said it enough on the podcast. It's so funny. We always do the show by Zoom, but you live 10 minutes away from me, not even 10 minutes away from me, and your gym is 15 minutes away from me,

yet we always do this over Zoom. I always find it hilarious. But that's part of the joy of this is we don't have to, because that was part of the problem with the old podcast was all getting together, and it would take us like four hours to all get together and do it. So now, even though we live 10 minutes apart, we still do it over soon. But that makes it easier on you because you're not like, oh, man, I got to drive to Damans and do a podcast.

Like, no, just do it from home. Yeah, that's exactly right. I don't know if you're like me, Damon. I'm a little bit of a hermit too. I am. Especially with the fight camp. I don't like going out of the house, man, unless I go to train, come home, eat some good food. You know, maybe make some love with the lady.

And I want to chill, bro. Exactly. No, dude, trust me, I get it. Like I said, I totally understand it. You know, I mean, like, it's a process to do much else besides that. So I totally understand. I totally understand. But it will be fun to be in a, dude, do Fight Camp Matt Brown.

It'll be a lot of fun going through that. And you're right. Because I'll interview you once during Fight Camp, but that's totally different than talking to you week to week. And actually, like, finding out how things are going, the people you're training with, people you got coming in. You know, what crazy shit Mark Coleman's doing? and whatever. It's going to be fun. So it'll be a good time. Have you been following with what Mark's been doing lately, right?

The Liver King. He's teamed up with the Liver King now. Yeah, he's teaming up with the Liver King, getting in shape on the carnivore diet. We went to some Shaboo the other day. I don't know how Coleman's going to lose this way, but, man, this guy eats like you never mean. But he's already feeling better. He's walking every day. I seen him hit the Arodine the other day. And just the energy that he's exuding now is just,

just brings joy to your heart, man. You were around when he was kind of at the, I don't know if I say low to lows, but, you know, he was going through it. Yeah. And watching the 360, well, 180 degree turn is just amazing to see, man. Absolutely. And, of course, you know, Mark Coleman Coley, as I call him,

is the goat. I love the guy. been sober two years now, which is amazing. And now working with the Liver King to get everything back in shape. Dude, it's awesome to see. It's amazing to see. So we'll get Colie on the podcast here soon. We got to catch up with Coli.

That's a whole other kind of podcast getting him back on here. Yeah, I just don't know if he knows how to you soon. Yeah, we might have to do that one in gym. I might have to come up to the Immortal Martial Arts Center, do it up there. All right, folks. For sure, for sure. We're going to get out of here. Obviously, I want to say a big thank you to everyone in the tunes.

each and every week to the show. Make sure you check us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. You can follow me everywhere at Damon Martin, and you can follow Matt at I Am The Immortal. I know you've got a lot of things going on. Of course, you're down in Nashville right now. You'll be back in a matter of days. So we'll have the podcast next week.

You'll be back in the bus and the old sea bus. And we'll talk about maybe some fight news in the near future for you. And we appreciate everyone tuning in. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.