MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Merab Dvalishvili Getting into Altercation with Fan, Dana White Telling Chris Weidman and Anthony Smith to Retire

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the fallout from UFC 310 including Shavkat Rakhmonov’s win and Alexandre Pantoja calling out Demetrious Johnson. Brown also addresses Merab Dvalishvili getting into an altercation with a fan and he recounts his own incident punching a fan in Brazil. Brown also reacts to Dana White saying he wants fighters like Anthony Smith and Chris Weidman to retire after losses on Saturday. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. To the fighter versus the writer, I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we are back from the final UFC pay-per-view of 2024. And I got to be honest. It wasn't exactly a banger. I'm just saying it wasn't exactly a banger. Yeah.

Yeah, it was kind of a turn out to be a long night, right? Yeah. I mean, there were some cool finishes. Like, you know, Vicente Lucke, you know, putting Dimbabeta Gremberg to sleep in like 20, seconds or whatever it was. Unfortunately, because you know, now he's either tied with me or one behind me. He's one behind you. At most finishes.

He's one behind you now. Yeah. I need him to retire. Come on with you. Don't do that to me. He got a win. I thought Al Jermaine and Mosa was a really good fight that actually ended up. I think that should have, we talked about the weather or not that should have been on the main card. I think that should have been on the

main card. Like it ended up being a really good fight. But yeah, it was just, I don't know. Like, you know, like, you know, like Bryce Mitchell and Chrome Gracie was terrible. I still don't understand the fascination. Like, listen, I pay reverence, and I'm sure you do too, Matt, because you know, you know Gracie family members. I know Gracie's family members.

The Gracies are one of the most singularly responsible families for what we have in mixed martial arts. But when was the last Gracie that was relevant in our sport, like actually, like a contender? Hmm. Yeah, that's a tough one. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I guess Cron is the most relevant one currently, right? Yeah, but I'm just saying, I'm not trying to knock them, but it's like at some point

it's got to go beyond family name, doesn't it? Like, you know, like, I just, I don't know. At some point, they got to stop pulling guard and, you know, try to actually learn how to strike, like somebody needs to learn. Yeah, it's just weird. Like, it was just a weird thing. Like, again, I didn't agree with them being on the main card and the fight kind of proved it to that point.

You know, do Ho Choie had a good win over Nate Landware. then Alexander Volkov got robbed in that fight with Cyril Gond. Not saying it was the greatest fight in the world, but I thought he definitely won. And then, of course, Shabkat, Rechmanoff beat Ian Machado-Garry in a much closer fight that I think a lot of people expected. So let's start there, because no offense to Alessandre Pantosian and Kaiasakur, I think we were all kind of looking forward to the Shabkat Rachmanov, Ian Machado-Garry fight. Did that fight?

I mean, we both picked Shabkat, and we both picked him to finish. Now, he won, but he didn't get a finish. And actually, the only person who came close to the finish was Ian Gary in that fifth round when he had him in that rear naked choke. So surprise, disappointed. Like, what was your, what was your takeaway from that fight, Matt? Yeah, my takeaway is we learned a lot about both of them, right? We learned Shavcott Can't go five rounds. We also learned that he is human.

And we learned that Ian Gary is, he's on his way. Like, I still think he's on his way to championship potential. You know, I mean, he wasn't able to stay off the cage against Shopcott. but like he was beating on the ground at some point. So he said almost had him in a rear naked choke. And, you know, it wasn't really offensive enough to be able on the feet, probably because Shavcott was kept pushing him against the cage. But I think he's going to learn a lot from that fight.

And I think he's going to come back a lot better and stronger. And Shavcott, again, I think we just learned that he's human. And I would say the odds against him with him and Ballal, like the odds probably went down, right? They were probably, I don't know if he would have been a favorite. But I'm betting he's not a favorite now if he was before. Here's the thing I took away from that. Now, I want to give all credit to Ian Machado, Gary, because I thought he looked great.

And again, there was one guy who came close to finish in that fight. It was him in the fifth round. The Shabkat thing did make me a little curious, though, because his strategy almost seemed to be winning by points. Like, he never really, you know, he never really went out there to me. guns blazing, like looking to finish Ian Gary. Now, maybe that's because they did know each other so well from training and he didn't want to make a mistake that could have potentially cost him. As we said, maybe he wanted to see what it was like to actually go in that fourth of his

round, but it just almost seemed like he went for the clinch, clinch, work for the clinch, pressed against the cage, you know, kind of pepper with punches. It almost seemed like he was like, I need to know I can go five rounds. And it ended up being kind of an ugly fight a little bit. And I was like, now listen, maybe he'll approach to Bilal Muhammad. and fight completely differently, but if he approaches Bilau the way he approached Ian Gary, he's going to lose that fight because Bilau is not going to just sit there and get pressed against the cage for, you know, 15 minutes and Bilal's got great wrestling, but also Balow's got

a gas tank and a pace. That was a pretty slow pace through a few rounds. You're not going to do that to Bilal Muhammad. Like, we've already had this discussion. Like I've said that like Bilal Muhammad to me could be. the kryptonite to Shabkat Rehmanov. That fight on Saturday night kind of proved it because, again, maybe he'll come out and just think he could just blow through Bilal Muhammad.

Maybe that's the way he thinks. I don't know. But if he fights the way he fought on Saturday kind of tentative and, like, I need to have energy going to the fifth round, that's not going to work against Bilal. I would argue that none of that had anything to do with Shafkot. I think it was Ali and Gary. I think Shopcott came in with the game plan of push him against the cage, take him down, beat him up on the ground, and Ian Gary said, no, you're not doing that.

So, you know, I give a lot of credit to Ian Gary. Like, I don't think Shavcott chose to go four or five rounds. I don't think he was planning on that. I think he went in to try to win the fight from the get-go, and Ian Gary put a stop to it. Like, Ian Gary was just better against that type of fighter than we thought he would be. And again, we hadn't seen him against that type of fighter. So, and Shavcott just wasn't able to put it together that strategy as well as we thought that he would.

I heard the rumors that he was injured going into the fight. Maybe that had something to do with it. Maybe it didn't. I fought with a torn MCL once, and I fought horribly bad, so I can totally sympathize if that is the case. But look, I thought Ian showed a lot. Maybe, you know, I'm not trying to be on Ian's nuts or anything here,

but I thought he showed a lot. And had he just opened up a little bit more offensively, I think he could have maybe even won that fight. Yeah. In a weird way, though, the other thing I will say about Shabkat is I think, you know, I said this beforehand, Matt, and I think we both agreed that he kind of needed one more. Because, again, like, as good as it was to be Wonderboy, I don't know that's the one that's really going to prove that you're like the number one contender.

You know, we said like, yeah. But to that point, like, I think going through what he went through on Saturday night, I think it showed that he needed a little bit more time in the cage, a little bit more experience, you got, you got five rounds. And I think maybe that kind of proved him like he needed to brush up on a couple of things to get ready. Because, again, Belal's going to present a different kind of challenge. And, you know, maybe he gets Bilal out of there.

Maybe he finishes Below in the first round. I don't know. But I think he needed that time in there to show that he could do it. And I think he's actually going to be better prepared for Bilow now. Because I wonder if, like, maybe that confidence that, you know, I finish everybody, I just kind of, you know, he kind of destroys the guys. Maybe that would have backfired against the guy like Bilal. because Bilal is so tough,

Bilau could go five rounds, Below has that pace. Maybe that would have backfired on him. I think in a weird way, having what I would call not his best performance, but doing what he did, I think that's actually

going to be hugely beneficial because I think, like, Hamzot going through what he went through with Gilbert Burns was a good thing. Like, we needed to see him human. We needed to see what he could do

when he faced adversity. We always say about John Jones. When John Jones finally got tested against Gustafson years ago, we finally learned what kind of a guy John Jones is because John Jones had just destroyed everybody but he actually had to face like he actually had to win a fifth round I'm like I need to win this fight

I think Shafkat needed that so I think we're actually going to get a better Shafkat going into the Bilau Muhammad fight I just again I can't help but wonder again the injury could have been a factor you're absolutely right maybe that's the case and again I agree with you we should give credit to Ian Machado Gary

for fighting him so tough but we know what Bilau does and that could present an interesting problem for Shafkat. Exactly. As I said, the line, whatever that fight was before, the line completely changed, I think. Shavkat and Ian are both going to come out of his better fighters, and I could totally see either one of them fighting a rematch for a title in the future if Ballal, you know, doesn't keep it for a very long time, which is possible, too.

I think he's a, Blal proposes bad stylistic matchup for either one of those guys. and I think we had a lot of questions about Shavkat, you know, in terms of a matchup against Ballal, which we talked about last week. And I think those questions are probably bigger question marks now than they were before. Now, you know, like I probably would have favored Shavkat had he ran through Aaron Ian Gary at this point, you know, you got kind of favored Ballal on this now.

Yeah, boy did Joe Rogan do Bilal dirty though on Saturday night. When Bilal's going to the octagon, he's like, oh, they don't know who the champ is. I'm like, dude, that's the wrong. Like, I don't think that's the case at all. Now, to be fair, the security guys who are working there, they may not be UFC fans. They don't need to know who you are. Like, I've been to a lot of concerts where the security people have no idea who's actually on stage. They're like, who are these people?

I don't know. I've worked security for bands I didn't know. Yeah. But like when Joe Rogan said, they don't know the champion. I think personally, I don't think they were not knowing who Bilal was. I think they were just trying to prevent, like, a potential riot. like, well, we've seen guys jump over the fence before. And I know Bilal said that in an interview.

But, man, Rogan did him dirty, man. Rogan's like, oh, they don't know who the champ is. And I was like, oh, Rogan, why did you do that to it, man? That's rough. They didn't remember the name, right? Yeah. But I was like, come on, Joe. Like, that's messed up.

Yeah, yeah. Well, hey, you know, Ballal isn't the most popular champion, right? It's just what it is, right? I like the guy, and I cheer for him to win a bunch of fights. and everybody does know who he is. Right now he's not there, though. Yeah. The security may have actually not known who he was.

Like, he's not a famous champion. Yeah. But it was interesting the crowd that they had there that night, right? There was a lot of sort of, you know, when they do the scan of the crowd and, you know, the different athletes and celebrities in the crowd, I didn't feel like there was a lot of that there. There was kind of like average to mid guys, which was kind of rare. Yeah, yeah. Well, it was a weird event all and all because, like, you know, it didn't sell out, which was rare because UFC the Avengers always sell out now. It was just, I mean, listen, I mean, I'm not, we talked about it beforehand, like this just after they lost the title fight, I'm not saying Below and Shavkat would have sold a million pay-per-views.

I don't think it would have, but at least there's a known commodity there, and you had Shabkat who was kind of like the big prospect and Bilal, who was the champion. And then we talked about just maybe a lack of interest in the flyweights, and you had a guy in Kaiosakura who, very good fighter and I thought he made a pretty good show him for himself I mean you know obviously it ended you know you got choked out is what it is I don't think anyone was totally shocked by that or you shouldn't have been because Pantosia is a monster and we said it goes to the ground probably a bad place to be for Ossacor and that's exactly how it played out but we all know this Matt like it or not like I'm not saying it's right but you know as well as I do the main event is what sells and if people aren't into the main event they're just not going to be there we saw like the early prelims we already predicted like we were talking about the placement on the card which we'll get back to that in the it, but, you know, no one shows up early in Vegas. They certainly didn't show up early in Vegas this time either. And then even the main card, it was just like, yeah, you could tell it wasn't a full arena. And unfortunately, I'm not saying I agree with it, but it just, it kind of felt like a

skippable event. I know that sounds terrible, but it kind of felt that way. Yeah, no, I felt kind of the same way, to be honest. You know, I wasn't crazy hype to go watch it. And nothing against none of the guys on the main card, but it just didn't. feel like a significant, a lot on the line, right? And we know there's a lot on the line for Pantosia. We know there's a lot of the line for Shavcott.

Even, you know, Chris Wyman and Aljo, there's a lot on the line. Every fight has a lot on the line. But it didn't feel that way on the outside. There wasn't a lot of drama. You know, there wasn't any shit talkers on the card. And, yeah, left us a little bit wanting some more, right? You made a point a couple of weeks ago. we were talking about the whole PFL thing and you said, you know, the season, the tournament,

none of that works. What people look for is the drama. And yeah, I think there's obviously a part of the audience that's not into the drama, but you're absolutely right because when I watched the press conference on Thursday night, I was like, I'm going to sleep. Like, this is just, nothing's happening here. Like, they're not, no one's really saying anything. And then you had the language barrier, which certainly didn't help matters much because

trash talk between translators just isn't that compelling. And then on top of that, like, it just, you just. It just like, it felt like on Saturday night, there were more people buzzing about other people talking about the fights. Like Connor did a voice thing where he kind of mocked Bilal for not being recognized in the crowd. Sean O'Malley did a thing talking about Marab when he got into a fight with the fan in the crowd or whatever. Like, it felt like those reactions got more buzzed than the actual fights because, as you said, drama sells. Yeah, and the UFC don't care because they're selling. right so it's all good for them

they're the machine they're going to keep rolling next UFC pay-per-view they put on a big one what is the next paper view anyway that's going to be Islam McAchev and Armin Saruki and Marab and Umar that's a big one in 311 in January exactly like and is anybody not going to buy it because of this one

not they've made their money and we're moving forward and that's a great card that might be the highest skilled card in a long time you know and not take anything away from the other guys, but, you know, with the even matchups and that's just high-level MMA right there. Very, very high-level M-M-A.

Let me ask you. Before we move on here, let me ask you, we talked about Pantosha goes out there, gets a big win, very impressively over Kai Asakura. Again, I think it hurt that, you know, like it or not, Kai just wasn't a known commodity in the U.S. Hardcores knew who he was, but you got to remember how small the hardcore audience is as opposed like the entire general audience. But then after the fight, Pantosia calls out Demetrius Johnson.

Now, listen. Demetrius Johnson is the goat, especially at flyweight. Maybe not the goat of everything, but to go to flyweight, there's no question. But he retired. I talked to him about it. I'm not coming back. There's nothing that could make me come back. I'm done.

He took a year between fights to know if he wanted to fight again. He knew he didn't want to fight again. He retired. I'm fine with that. And also on top of that, he's in one championship. He retired as a one championship fighter. Now, I don't know what his contract situation was, but I have to imagine if he actually was going to fight again. again, they would have the claim to say, hey, you're still under contract with us.

So I was like, this is a weird callout because while I understand you've beaten all the guys kind of behind you, you've beaten Brandon Roy Vall, you've beaten, you know, the guy's directed behind you, it's almost like, I don't know, it was a weird callout. It was a weird call out. So I'm going to argue that he wasn't calling him out because he thinks that fight is actually going to happen. He's calling him out to get his name involved with Demetrius Johnson in some capacity. Demetrius is the greatest ever

arguably the greatest ever pound for pound definitely I think it's hard to argue that he's the most skilled that we've seen in the history of the sport

so if Pantosia can just get his name beside his name in any sentence in the media he's winning and everybody's asking Demetrius about it

I think I've seen more news about Demetrius responding to it than about Pantosia saying it. So Pantosia's winning. Like just put your name out there. Put yourself up as one of the, you know, able to compete with one of the greats.

And if he can even start the argument of whether he can't compete with Demetrius, then he's on his path to winning. You're right. I mean, you're right because in my headline, my post-fight recap, I said, Alice Charday Pantosia calls out Demetri's Johnson after putting Kyosakor to sleep because, no offense, I knew Demetrius Johnson was the bigger name. So you're right.

You're absolutely right. And I get it. It was just a weird, like, it was just so out of kind of like out of nowhere. But you're absolutely right. Everybody's been doing that with Connor for years, right? Everybody calls out Connor. People will still call out Connor. And guess what?

That gets him in the news more than calling out the guy ranked right above him. Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely right. And listen, you know, do I think that Pantosia has an argument to be in the same conversation to DJ? No, but. not yet he raises the question you're right no you're absolutely right i get it and and and because i mean how much juice is he going how much juice is he going to get if he calls like kai kara franz like

is anyone going to really like or whatever you know what i mean there's been a single article written about him calling out kai kare france or kai kara france's response i don't think exactly yeah so again he won yeah he got what he wanted out of the situation and it's good for him you know pantosia unfortunately you know kind of like we're talking about blah, like not a big name. Like, you go talk to the average fan. You say Pantosia, they may not know who you're talking about unless they actually follow UFC.

The more that he puts his name out there, the more he makes those big callouts, hell, go ahead and and call out Connor, you know, like call out, you know, it's like whatever, whatever you can do to get your name out there. Yeah, I mean, you're not, you know you're absolutely right. Now you said it, you're absolutely right, because he could have called out anyone else in the division. Everyone would be like, whatever. You call out Demetrius.

Demetrius is the name. And so, and he got Demetrius to respond. And yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Now that I think about it, you're absolutely right, which is true. But yeah, it was funny, though, because in the moment, I'm like, Demetrius, like, what do you call that Demetrius for? But you're right. It's just getting the name.

It's just a name value. Yeah, and we talk about it all the time, or people talk about it all the time. Dana will say, look, on that mic, you got 15, 20 seconds. Make the fucking most of it. You got to give it to Pantosia. He made the most of it. He did. He absolutely did. Speaking of kind of making the most of it, before we get back to the fights at UFC 310,

did you see this situation with Marab de Wilesh Vili and a fan? And now there's all kinds of conspiracy theories about was it a plant or was it a friend of Omar? Like, I'm curious, like, because this happened back at 300 with Armisaruky and getting into it as a fan. And he ended up getting like a suspension and a fine from the commission, which, by the way, just to throw this out there, not to like, you know, rain on everyone's parade here. Morab is a licensed cornerman on Saturday night. He was cornering Al Jermaine Sterling.

So technically the commission could come after him for getting into it with a fan. Like they could suspend him. I'm not saying they will. I'm just saying like be aware he was a licensed cornerman in Nevada. They could come after him for that. Anyways, did you see this? And like what? The reason I bringing this up is kind of twofold, Matt.

One, I want to get your reaction like when you see this kind of stuff happen. But also two, I think it's, well documented. I like Marab. I've interviewed him many times. I think Marab's a good dude. And I think the entire world was like on his side about getting the Sean O'Malley fight. Even when the Cheetah Vera

fight came up, most people are like, you should be fighting Marab. You should not be fighting Chita Vera. But then afterwards, it's almost like there's been this 180 switch on Marab because he does not want to acknowledge Umar and he keeps, he's calling out O'Malley rematch, and then he was called out

Peter Yan, and he's calling out Devin'on, and he's calling it a Devinan. and now he's actually fighting Umar. It's like the tables have turned. Like Umar is just like, let's go, man. Let's fight. And Marab's like, you don't deserve this. You're not really a worthy contender.

And Umar's like, whatever, we're fighting. It's just weird. Like how much the narrative has changed on Marab in like two months time. Yeah. And you can get it too. Look, Marab, how many fights he win? Was he a 12 fight win streak before I think 11 fights. I think 11 fights.

Yeah, 11 fights. Whereas Umar is that not even that many fights in the UFC. I think he's 6 and 0. I think he's 6 and 0. Yeah. So look, I get Marab's argument there. Umar is not a big name.

And he is probably one of the worst matchups out there. So look, I get where Marab's coming from. I didn't see the audience thing. I heard, excuse me, I heard a little bit about it. And I don't really know what happened.

But I don't know if it was like a plan or whatever, but I still say, like, look, these fans, you keep to your fuck itself, bro. Don't fuck with professional fighters. Like, most of us are martial artists that are respectful and stuff, but we're also human beings and will rip your fucking throat out. Like, like, don't fuck with us.

It's stupid. Well, I do know the one video I saw, and again, I'm not playing into the whole conspiracy theory that's being a plant or, you know, this guy is apparently friends with Umar and them. I'm not even getting into all that because I don't know. This guy could just be, you know, whatever. I'm not going to get into that side of things. But I will say in the one thing that Marab showed in his video, the guy touched him. The guy grabbed Marab's arm. Now, you can't do that.

You can't do that. Now, I'm curious, Matt, you fought a lot. Now, you fought locally and you fought obviously most of your current UFC. Did you ever have like a really bad interaction with a fan, like walking into or out of the cage or any memorable moments? this? What am I forgetting? When I fought Damien Maya in Brazil. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

One fan grabbed my hat. That's right, the hat grab. Well, that was the first one. And then I got punched by one or two fans after. And then one of them, I punched them back. And I probably knocked them out. I don't know. They pulled me away so fast that I don't know what happened.

But I landed a clean shot on them and finished my way to the cage. And this was on the way out or on the way back? On the way out to the cage. Why do I not remember you actually punching someone? I don't remember that. I remember the hat. I don't remember you punching someone. We could probably find it on YouTube or something.

Yeah, I mean, I socked him right in the fucking face. I mean, you know, I remember Dana changed things after that. I don't know exactly what the changes were, but, you know, basically talk about, you know, separating the fans a little bit more, particularly like in Brazil, maybe having better security when guys are walking out because, you know, I was right there in touching range. and they were hitting me and like I said, pulled my hat off and it was just like, I'm not going to just sit here and take this.

And plus I'm completely fired up, like ready to walk into a fight. And if you get hit, it's a natural reaction. You hit someone back. So in that moment, and this is where I'm talking about with that person,

when the fan would marab. Because you can't grab a professional. That's what I'm saying. Like you can't touch them. Say what you like, someone touches me. I'm fucking them up. The thing with,

Armine, I never understood because the guy was flipping him off. Didn't touch him, didn't say, you just flipped him off. I understand getting a little pissed off, but you can't throw hands with someone when they're not doing it. They're just yelling at you. And guess what? People are going to yell ignorant, stupid shit. Like, that's just going to happen. I'm sure you've had that experience, too, where someone says stupid shit.

Yeah, I do get it, though, because, you know, they think that you're not going to do anything. And that's the reason that they do it. And you want to say, you know what, I will fucking do something, bitch. But, yeah, you shouldn't. you know, yeah, Armand probably shouldn't have done that. But I get it, though. I don't, I don't, I don't look down on them for doing it all. But the touching thing is the line.

You cannot touch somebody. You just can't. You can't do it. And if you get punched in that moment, you can't be surprised that you got punched in that moment because you can't. Because the video originally, when I saw it, I know you haven't seen the video. The video originally literally picks up as Armine or as Marab's getting pulled apart by security. And then Dennis, I care, I don't want to butcher his last name, it was Bazooker or Bazooka. his teammate, who is also the UFC, ends up actually throwing hands with that guy.

They're punching each other. Security ends up intervening. So we don't know what happened. In the original video, you don't know what got it started. You just see somebody obviously started recording after they see Marab getting pulled away, which, why would you be recording that, you know, before that anyhow? Because you had no idea what's going to happen, unless it really was a plant. And they had a videographer there trying to capture it.

But so you don't see. Now, when you watch the replay and the video that Marab posted, You do see very clearly that guy grabs Marab's arm. Now, apparently, and I saw Dennis did, he did Algeman and Sterling's podcast today, he said that the guy kind of grabbed at him and said something on the way in and then did it again on the way out. And the way out is when it erupted. Now, as I said, I understand what you're coming from. But just words, to me, you got to just ignore it and be a professional and just move on because people are going to say stupid shit. I get what you're saying, but I'm saying like in that moment, you're going to.

got to walk away. When you touch a dude, though, all bets are off. You cannot touch a fighter. You're just begging for it. You're begging to get fucking socked. Yeah, there's nothing more to say about it. Like, you touch me, I'm fucking you up. I'm sure every other fighter feels the exact same way.

We should be able to handle people saying shit. But again, I totally understand that too. Like, we get sick of hearing people say shit. And like, like, at some point, it's like, okay, do I have to show you that I can fuck you up? Because I will. Yeah. But a lot of these guys, you know, they, they push that line all the way.

You know, when you're flipping a guy off, you deserve to get your ass kicked. The only reason that we don't is because of security or repercussions. Not because you don't deserve it. It's because of repercussions. That's the only reason, I mean, in my life, that's the only reason there's a lot of people alive, right? Because there's repercussions and I got kids and I don't want to go. to prison. So look, like, don't touch a motherfucker.

Well, you, and you, you obviously, like, your situation was pretty clearly. They actually touched you and, like, hit you. When you got back, like, did Dane ever talk to you about that? Like, to say sorry for, like, a lot. Because as you said, like, they have. I did notice the aisles have widened where it's easier to get through because they did have it very narrow for a long time where you're like, you could almost see, like, fans on each side of the rail and could touch each other because that's how little room

there was there. And they do make wide. So I do see what you're talking about. Like when that happened, did Dana be like, dude, I'm sorry? Like, because that's wild. Like when they can actually reach you like that. I think Reed Harris said something to me. I never spoke with Dana about it.

But I remember he addressed it in the post-fight press conference. I remember him speaking about it, saying, we're going to do something about that. And, you know, and I egg those guys on, too. I mean, you know, I was in Brazil and, you know, they're, you know, chanting their shit that they like to chant at foreign fighters. I flipped them off, you know, and I was just having fun playing the game, you know, but, you know, they weren't having fun, right? They take it serious down there. It's like soccer, you know, like the mob's ready to go to war for their team or whatever.

I was like, I'm ready to go to war too, buddy. Yeah, I mentioned that guy that you punched and potentially knocked out, I would hope he's never talking shit again. Yeah, maybe he learned his lesson. How did you learn your lesson? I got punched by Matt Brown. That's why I learned my list. Well, you know, what we talked about too is like, you know, it's just a good thing like you didn't, I mean,

could have had like a fork, you know, or, you know, an actual knife, which I'm sure they check them in security for knives and shit. But, you know, it could got a butter knife or something from the concession stand or a, you mean, it could really hurt somebody. So I think I was really what spurred the UFC to widen the walkout area. Yeah, the only time, and like, this is not fire related, but like people get a little too comfortable in crowds. Like they feel like they're anonymous and they get away with shit

because the only time I've ever really been in a fight at a concert was this one time I was at a show and there was a girl like a little teen girl. So it's crowd surfing. And I care what show it was. It was a metal show. But she had to be like maybe 16, 17 years old. And this fucking guy literally grabbed her by her belt and jerked her down.

And she fell and fell on the ground. And I saw it happen. I was like maybe five feet away. And I was like, what the fuck? Like, literally just yanked her out of the crowd like being a dick. You know what I mean? He beat his ass? I went over and I shoved him and he came back and he's like, what.

I was like, dude, what a fucking asshole. And he kind of moved towards me and I fucking punched him. And then security swooped in. And I knew this. It was at Bogart. You know Bogarts. It was a Bogart. Of course.

And security knew me because I worked on the street. So they threw that guy out and I got to stay in the concert even though I punched somebody. Nice. Nice. I'm proud of you, bro. I didn't know that. I was pissed. I was, like, I was livid.

Because this girl was, like, maybe 16 years old. And, like, you could tell she got hurt when he pulled her down. I was like, why would you do that? Like, why, what the fuck? Like, she was just crowd surfing. Like, I've had little, I've had kids at concerts when everyone's crowd surfing. I had, like, 16-year-old kids ask me to hoist them up because I'm six-foot three and a big dude. And I'm like, sure, and I helped them up.

And everyone, you know, it's a fun time. Like, you know what I mean? Like, why are you grabbing a girl by her belt and pulling her down the crowd? I was like, nope. Some people don't like seeing other people have fun and do their thing, right? They want to be the upsetter of the fucking night, you know? Like they got negative energy and they want to give that negative energy to everyone else. So, you know, it is what it is.

But that's why they get punched. That's why God gave his fist, right, and elbows. That dude got punched and he fell down and he didn't get a chance to get back up. He started sat there for a minute and the security swooped in. I was like, yeah, he pulled this girl out of the crowd and like, all right, cool. chucked his ass out. I'm just going to have to teach you how to elbow, though, bro. Like, why do you use your hands?

Like, just elbow the motherfucker. He did the moment. You know, he's the moment. I shoved him. He looked like he was going to come back at me. He was like, nope, not going to let that happen. You just got learn the elbows, bro. Like, you got hundreds of bones in your hand.

You got one bone in your elbow. Yeah, isn't the elbow, isn't like the heel and the elbow, the two bones that are hardest to break in the human body? Am I getting that right? I think that's right. I have no idea, but I'll take it. I think it's the heel and the bone, the heel and the elbow are the two hardest bones in the body to break.

I think I've heard that. I don't know. I got thick-ass dense bones, so mine don't really break. I'm pretty much cool with it. I don't care. But here's the piece of advice. Don't touch fighters. Just don't do it.

Just unless you do want to get punched because that, it's so dumb. It's just so dumb. Yeah, that's a more of the story. Like, there's a few martial artists out there, like, pure martial arts. Like, maybe like a GSP might, you know, have the mental capacity. to be calm about it. 99% we're gonna fuck you up, you touch us.

And you know what? And by the way, even though I don't know that I play into Holmurab's like whole conspiracy theory, it was a plan, I'm not gonna get into all that. I don't know who was or not.

But I'm citing with him and the fact that this dude touched him because the video showed him touching him. You can't do that shit. Cannot touch the fighter. Like I said, I agree with you're saying

with the words. Like even then I'm like, ah, you know, it's words, let it bounce off. But I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying like me personally, just who cares? You touch them, all bets are off.

Because when I saw that video at him grabbing, I was like, oh shit, okay, my opinion's changed a little bit now because can't do that shit. Can it do? And that's like I said, if you touch a guy and you get punched, you can't really say you didn't know. You did the fuck around and then you found out. Exactly. No, that's exactly it.

So, yeah, hopefully Marab doesn't get in trouble for it. So I really hope he does, especially with that other video now that's out there. What are the thing I want to touch on with you? 50310, Matt. Of course, listen, nature of the beast, nature of the sport, guys are going to win, guys are going to lose. That's how the sport works. But on Saturday night, we had a couple of particularly tough losses for some veterans. Clay Guida suffered a loss to Chase Hooper, got armed in the first round. I think that he dropped him to like one in four or one in five in his last few fights. Chris Weiban had a pretty rough night. He had a knockdown early, but then he got taken down and just got battered pretty brutally for about four minutes before the referee finally was just like. we got to stop this and ended up with Eric Anderson. Anthony Smith, who I got to say, you know, just full disclosure is a buddy of mine. I'm pretty close with Anthony. I've known Anthony for a lot of years, really good duties.

Co-host this podcast before. He was obviously in an emotional situation, close friend, corner man for almost every fight he's ever had, died recently. You know, I can't even imagine what that's like, but he went in there and obviously had a pretty rough night against Dominic Reyes. and afterwards he said it's probably it for him. But then Dana White, of course, to post my press conference, what do you do? And Dana said they should all retire tonight. Dana doesn't bite his tongue when that kind of stuff comes.

So, Matt, let me ask you, because you retired on your own terms, right? Like, you just decided when the time is right, and we've talked about it. I'm not going to rehash your retirement, but you knew when the time is right, when to retire. Your natural retirement, you moved on. How do you feel, I'm not saying, like, me as a journalist, I don't like to tell guys to retire. I've only done it a couple times in my career. and it's usually, I've only done it. Like, I remember doing it to Ken Shamrock at one point

because, like, he had booked a fight. I'm like, dude, this is going to end badly. I don't want to see Ken get hurt. Like, that was my argument. Like, I'm just like, the guy, he just doesn't need to be fighting. But I'm not a big proponent of, like, telling guys to retire. How do you feel about that? And I'm not trying to make you take shots of Dana, good or bad.

But, like, how do you feel about an outsider telling Wyman Smith and Guida, they should all call a career that one night? You know, that's a tough one. Like, because Dana is not necessarily wrong. Like, I think it's tough for a fighter to come to grips with the reality. Like you said, Dana's not going to miss his words. Dana is going to say whatever Dana wants to say.

It's tough for a fighter, though. I think it's difficult for a fighter to realize that there's another world out there for you. And this doesn't have to be your identity. for ever and you have to start looking at the reality of the fights and do they still carry meaning like are you doing this for money or is there actual meaning to these fights now if you're doing it just for money there's still there's nothing wrong with that you know if you know that that's what it is but i think when you start realizing there's a whole more whole another world out there and there's more money to be made outside of the sport than inside the sport.

You know, again, unless you're GSP or Connor or John Jones, right, that's where the most money's. Even Connor, though, I mean, look, like he made more money outside the sport than he did inside. So, you know, the fact is there is more money to be made outside the sport. So you have to look deep inside your soul and decide if you're fighting because you're hanging on to something. or if you're fighting because there's actual meaning to it. And I think that's what Dana is looking at when he sees it from the outside. He's like they're not like, like,

Guida's fights don't mean anything anymore. Right? Like you're not going to go on a 10-5 streak and get back to the title. Like it's, he believed, Dana believes it's probably over. Gweed, I think, would be like sort of an exception where like I think he just loves it so much.

He's just a while. man and you know win or lose he's like dude i just love being in there and swinging for the fences and going for it but i think that's what you have to look at and that's certainly what i looked at hopefully you know some fighters can heed that advice and realize that there is another world on the other side the grass is greener on the other side um and you don't have to hold on to this sport it doesn't have to be who you are for life You can keep training, keep having fun, stay in the gym. But there's a whole world out there that you haven't even explored.

And that's helped me at least, right, when I'd be tired. Like I went out and realized like there's so much more that I can do, right? I can make this. And it doesn't have to be about me anymore, right? It can be about everybody else. And, you know, I'm on track next year to make more money than I did, you know, my last few fights in the UFC. So, you know, you don't have to fight for money.

There's other ways to make money. Yeah. It's, uh, I like, I think some people approach them from the wrong direction when they're like, oh man, you look like shit, you better retire. That's not the direction to approach you from. My direction, I've always had a thought when I've had these conversations with guys, like when they say they're retiring and we talk about it. It's always from like a, me is like, from my perspective, it's almost always like a health

perspective. Like, why, you know, like watching Anthony get, eat like 90 unanswered punches on Saturday night. And I'm like, dude, you are one of the most talented commentators, analysts, podcasts, so. So you're one of the most talented talkers in the sport. Why, like, what meaning is there? Like, you said, what meaning is there?

Like, that's my concern. Like, it's not even that Anthony had a bad night at the office. It's I'm just like, I don't, he doesn't need to take punches anymore. He's had, you know, I mean, he's had an incredible, career. You know, he left, he fought the UFC, he got dropped, he worked his way back, and then built his way back into becoming a title contender. Fought for a title was a constant threat in that top 10 at light heavyweight. Things have not gone right for him in his last few fights. You know, my perspective is just like, I don't want to see him take unnecessary

damage when I know how talented of what he does outside the Octagon. I would say the same thing about Chris Wyman. Like Chris Wyman went through a horrifically traumatic injury with that leg. And he's also, you know, 40 now, 40 or 41. It's tough. Like, it's tough to come back from all that and still be at the peak. He's just, I think we can, I think we can look at Chris Wybin now and see he's not peak Chris Wyman anymore, right?

And do we want to see him continue to take damage? Well, I'll tell you, the one thing. A fighter is, is rarely, if ever, going to take into account the health part. like no one signed up for this sport worried about their health and if you're going to start focusing on your health then you're going to get out of sport the day that you put your focus on that right like no one leaves this unscarred right like we're in this you know where fighters go into this sport not because it's some brilliant business model and strategy um you know like we get into

is because there's some screws loose, right? That there's something missing, right? There's a reason why we're choosing to put our lives on the line in front of millions of people and not get millions of dollars for it. So if you start bringing up the health thing, which I see as a media guy, of course, that's what you're going to be thinking about, right, as an outsider. When you're in the sport, like, that's not a discussion that you want to. have and and it's not a discussion that you need to have the day that you start having that

that discussion that's the day you should be tired yeah i know you've always said like you go in there knowing you could die and that's just a reality of fighting right like that's just a reality of what you've signed up for you know that you could die or even worse you could be you know like a meldrick taylor might be slurring your words for the rest of your life yeah you could be having concussion system, some concussion symptoms for the rest of your life. Like your brain might be changed forever. Most of us would probably die than that happened. But it's a reality of what we choose to do.

And I said there's screws loose for a guy to be doing that. Like there's something wrong with our heads. When we know that that's a risk and in terms of, you know, if you write down like a business model, you know, and a strategy to make money. over the year. So like this isn't the smartest path, right? You go to fucking Air Force and be a pilot, right? You know, like there's far better ways of doing this. Go to go to school, get a fucking NBA, right? But, you know, you know, and like what's wrong and, you know, looking inside yourself and saying, okay, like, why did I choose this? What am I getting out of this? And am I still doing

it for those same reasons? And again, just know, and what the reasons are is what's important. If you're still hanging on to that dream that you're going to come back and be a champion and you lost four in a row, it's like, well, now you got to start thinking whether that's a realistic possibility. If you're in it because you know,

you still want to make some money, it's like, well, now you've got to start considering, like, is this the best business model to make money in the future? Yeah, I'm curious, like, a lot of times as journalists when Dana says very candidly how he feels about a fight or a fighter, we all kind of ooh and awe, right? Like, oh, damn.

Like, Dana's like, you know, when he takes, says a fight is terrible or whatever he says. I'm curious, like, how much do you take to heart as a fighter when Dana says that kind of stuff? Like, Dana never once said Matt Brown should retire, so I know you can't put yourself in that situation necessarily. but like does it sting? Does it like make you actually question it? Because like I don't think they, I can't remember Dana ever like actually forcing anyone to retire. Like he said it.

But I think he said about Tony Ferguson like two fights ago and Tony Ferguson still got two more fights. So like I don't think he's ever forced anyone into it. But does it hurt or do you just roll with the punches and say that's just Dana? Because I mean he is the guy. He is the boss. I mean he does the buck stops with him. Like if he's saying like man that did not look good,

I'd like for you to retire, that's probably not the best thing to hear your boss say, but like, does it really matter? Yeah, I said, I've never experienced this. So I can't really say for sure. But just imagine like, you know, you're working at your job and your boss is like, hey, you shouldn't work here no more, buddy. Yeah, that fucking hurts, bro. Especially, like, people don't understand, like, the, what fighters put into this shit.

It's not just the physical. It's not just the mental. Like, it's your soul. It's your spirit. it's your life and everybody's making sacrifices your mom and your sister and your brother your wife your kids like everybody's sacrificing for it and you know some guy comes along and says man you shouldn't be doing this shit you know and the guy in charge says you shouldn't be doing the shit it's like there's no way that don't sting yeah and to your point you mentioned earlier

like fighters who do and i'm just saying you know i'm paraphrasing but fighters to do this already have a bit of a screw loose like you don't typically den. person won't sign up to get punched the head for a living. That's also why it's hard to give it up, I imagine, right? Because I consider on the outside look at in and say, Anthony Smith is an incredibly talented commentator analyst. I think he could probably do play-by-play or a color commentary. He has a podcast.

He's very successful. Do that. But I'm not Anthony Smith. I'm not built to fight. I didn't build my entire life around fight. I didn't build myself into becoming one of the toughest fucking human beings. on earth. So for me saying I care about you, Anthony, I don't want to see you get hurt and you have so much talent outside the octagon. All those things can be true. But that's not

the way Anthony Smith's looking at. I'm using him as an example because he already has built such a career outside the, you know, outside fighting. But like to me, I'm thinking, man, why would you do this? Like, you got all this other talent. You got those other things. And it's hard, like, you know, like taking Anthony Smith, for example, like, like, like how does he find purpose in commentating and analyzing fights like even like me doing this podcast like i don't know if you remember when it first did it like a lot of times i'm like yeah i don't know about this week whatever because you're like that's not like purposeful in terms of compared at least to like putting your life on the line and going out there and fighting dudes like

that's your purpose that you've built your life on and now you have to find new purpose um it's a it's a tough proposition So, you know, so like Anthony Smith, for example, right, right? How's he going to find purpose in commentating fights? Like, he probably commentates and analyze these fights, but doesn't really give a fuck about the guy he's watching. Right? He's just doing it because he's good at it. Right?

Whereas maybe like, you know, John Anick, like, that's what he's born for. You know what I mean? So he finds purpose in it because this is what he was born for. Anthony Smith is like, bro, like, I was born to fight. Like, I'm doing this shit because I get paid and because I'm good at it. so you know it's it's all about finding that purpose you know it's what it comes back to and it's hard to find purpose outside of what your born purpose was which was to go to war and fight motherfuckers it's funny because uh you're the way you retired where you know you and not to rehash what you

said at the time but you know more or less you had said like when they called you with a fight you just didn't get that same feeling i'm not i'm not wrong and like that was part of it right that's right yeah that's correct yeah yeah um and you just knew it was time And Demetrius Johnson, when he retired, when I talked to him about it, he said that he knew, he probably knew it was done, but he wanted to take a year just to make sure he didn't get that itch, that desire to fight again. He also wanted to make sure his identity. You've said that word a lot when you talk about fighter identity, tied to fighting. Like, you got to realize you have an identity outside of fighting. Demetrius is like, I want to make sure I have an identity outside of fighting.

So he took a year. And at the end of that year, he's like, yeah, I don't want to fight, don't really have the desire to fight. and I know I have other things to do. He had to start his podcast. Start doing Jiu-Jitsu. That fulfilled him in a competitive way without actually getting punched in the head. And he took the time and when he retired,

now Demetrius is done. Like going back to the whole Pantosha thing, like Demetrius is done. He's not coming back. And I'm fine with that. And I think everyone should be fine with that. But like that's the rare example because I think a lot of times

guys make a snap decision. They come off a bad loss. Rough night at the office. I'm done. Fuck this sport. And then six months later, you're like, hold on now. I'm ready to go again.

But like, so that's why like, one thing Anthony Smith has said, and he said to this to me privately and publicly, he's like, I never want to be the guy to retire in the cage because I don't want to be that guy. I want to take time and think. And he actually said that on Saturday. He's like, probably the last one, but I want to think about it. And I appreciate even that moment, that emotional moment,

he's just like, I'm not going to call it right now because I want to give myself time. I think every fighter should do that. I hate in cage announcements because it's the most emotional. charged moment ever. Now, unless you have plotted this out like Habib did when he knew going into the Justice Gachee fight, this is it for me. I'm done. I'm not going to, I'm honoring my father and I'm not going to scare my mother anymore by fighting. I'm done. That's different. But the emotional moment if I lost, I had a bad night at the office, I'm just fuck it. I'm done. I wish nobody would ever do that because that's, again, it's an emotional moment. Take that time. Like, I'm glad Chris Wyman and Clay

Guit and Anthony Smith didn't just lay down the gloves. They fuck it. I'm out. Like, Take some time. As you said, why are you fighting? What are you fighting for? Yeah, which is you're talking about DJ taking the year. Like that's sort of what I did, right? I fought last in May,

2023. I didn't actually retire until, what, May or June of this year. And I kind of, you know, was on the fence about it for the whole year. And then got the call and was like,

eh, don't really feel it, you know? And it was about, you know, taking that year, to find my purpose, right? Is there another purpose for me? Like, is this all that I, is this all that I was born for?

Like, am I capable of doing other things? Because we don't feel that way as fighters. We don't feel like we have the capability of doing other things. But we are. And that's all there is to it. You know, we really are. And I think that's just a soul-searching, learning process that all fighters have to go through. that you just got to find what your next purpose is in life, man.

And it's not an easy thing. I know a lot of fighters go through depression and go through, you know, have a lot of anxiety and problems. And it's not all just because, you know, CT or whatever kind of bullshit people like to say. Like, it's because it's like you're literally changing your identity. It fucking sucks. Yeah. That's why a lot turned into alcoholics and shit.

Absolutely. I mean, I remember, I know you remember this. years ago when Brendan Shob had that like come to Jesus meeting with Joe Rogan and everyone was kind of upset with Joe Rogan like dude that's kind of fucked up to like confront your friend on a podcast to basically say like you should quit and and Brendan even told me when I talked I mean I've talked about this many times when I talked to them more recently we talked about it kind of revisited he's like in that moment like I was pissed my family was pissed everyone was pissed like I was kind of fucked up to like do it on air on a podcast but he's like looking back on it

I know Joe just cared for me and he was just like dude you're so talented and doing everything. And if you look at that, when that happened, that was like October. And Brendan didn't actually retire to like the following May. He took time. Because even in that, like, as upset as he was, to be like, no, I can still compete with the best of the world.

While that situation was fucked up, and I'm sure, I hope there's some part of Joe Rogan to regrets doing it that moment because that was really, that was messed up to do it publicly like that. Like, you know, like I would never, like, you're one of my closest friends. I would never do that to you on a podcast. I would never be like, Matt, what the fuck are you doing?

your life. We would never have an intervention on the podcast. To be fair, though, that is Joe's podcast. Like he's authentic as they fucking get, right? And you come on that podcast, like, he's going to say exactly what's on his mind. And I try to do that when I do podcast. I mean, I try to just be, like, I would have this exact same conversation if we were sitting at dinner, eating dinner, you know? We're just, all we're doing is recording it and putting it out there for people. Yeah. But anyway, my point being is like, even in that moment when it was such a heightened, heightened emotional moment, Brandon still took several months before he actually retired.

I just, I think, like you said, you got to find out what your identity is outside of fighting. And I can sit here all day and say, Anthony Smith, you were one of the most talented dudes. You're fucking incredible at your job outside the Octagon. I'm not Anthony Smith. I have not dedicated the last 30 years of my life to being a fucking professional fighter. I don't know what that feels like. That's why this podcast is so incredibly beneficial, not to like pump up our numbers or in here, but like your perspective. That's why I said like with the crowd thing, like in my thing, I'm like, dude, just ignore it.

I'm not a fighter. I'm not built like a fighter. I don't know what it's like. But you could relate to it in some sense. Like you've spent how many years being a journalist and doing podcasts and writing articles. And if, you know, suddenly you weren't able to do that for some reason, you know, like you just physically couldn't do it. it or mentally or your boss was like, yo, bro, like, you kind of suck at this now.

You got to be tired. That would hurt. That would fucking cut deep, bro. Absolutely. And that's why I said, like, I was curious because, like, I know what Dana's doing. But, like, I wonder, I mean, I'm sure he does. And again, I don't think he's doing malice.

Like, I don't think he's doing it to be like, fuck these guys. Like, he's not saying that all. I think he does care. So, you know, like, when Chuck Ladell went through that, like, there was a reason why he wanted to Chuck to walk away. He's like, I don't want to see him get hurt anymore. And, you know, so I don't think it's done with, like, malice. Like, he's like, oh, I don't care about these guys.

I think he does. But on the flip side, you're the fighter, be like, God, that sucks. Like, your boss is like, yeah, you should call it career. Like, there's no way it doesn't sting a little bit. Sure. And Dan is also trying to build the best professional fighting organization in the history of man, right? And so far he's done that, he doesn't need the guy sticking around, right? Like, he's not, that's not moving the needle.

right so if it ain't moving the needle of course dan is going to be but but they've also built a tenure and you know like bimon and uh former champ you know it's like it's like we're not going to force you out but you know he's going to say what he feels and yeah you know if you're not moving the needle he don't want you around really anyway you know i mean like even if if you're not retiring he's just like his job is to sell fights if you ain't selling fights what does he need you for it. Yeah, it's true. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Real quick before we get out of here, Matt, I just want to get a quick one in. We got this weekend, Joaquin Buckley taking on Colby Covington, main event, U.S.

You got a pick prediction on that one. I think it's a really interesting fight. Colby's coming back for the first time in a year since losing Leon Edwards. Walking Buckley coming out of that nasty knockout over Wonderboy. He's undefeated at Walter Wait. What are we thinking? Boy, that's a tough one, man, because, like, I don't know where Colby's at these days. I think prime Colby if he is if there's a such thing

but you know Colby at his best I should say poses a lot of problems for Yolking Buckley right but boy I got to lean towards Yolking because he's just been looking fantastic it looks like he's firing on all eight cylinders but I don't know if he can handle the pace of Colby though but can Kobe put that pace on him is the question

but I would lean towards Buckley, I think. He's just firing on all eight cylinders. I'm with you. I'm with you on the Buckley thing. I don't know. I mean, Colby's a little older now. I think Colby gets up for the emotional fights. You know, I think he got up for the Usman fights.

He got up for the Mazmidal fight. I don't think there's a lot of emotional attachment to walking Buckley. I mean, maybe they'll try to build it this week. But, you know, it's a fight night card. There's no press conferences. There's no big, you know, confrontational moments like that. And, dude, like I said, man, time catches up to everyone. Everyone in Buckley, I think Buckley's like 28, young, hungry, powerful, nasty striker.

Pretty good wrestling, too, on top of that. Like, he had a couple of dicey moments with Wonderboy on the feet, but that's Wonderboy. Wonderboy's a tough guy on the feet. Like, he still got that ability. But then guess what happened? When he got a moment, he pressured him and knocked him out. Like, that's, walking Buckley's that dude. Yeah, Eileen Buckley as well.

And I, I, we don't have a retirement. I can't have a wonder if things go wrong for Colby and it's a definitive loss. Like, you know? Yeah, for sure, yeah. But, you know, I do think Colby at his best. If he can be on his A game, man, you know, I would give it to him. You know, I mean, he's got the cardio. It's just, I think it just comes down.

Like, you know, if he gets hit by Buckley, he could be, like, Buckley's got the power to have a fight-changing punch at any moment. And I don't know if Colby can take his punches. but, man, Colby could definitely, you know, out-cardio him, just outpace him, just keep on them for five rounds and just, you know, just wear him out, man, you know. But I think we'll find out pretty early in this fight how it's going to go, right? I don't think it's going to be like a back-and-forth, you know, five-round war. Yeah, I just, it's like it feels like it's just been a while since we've seen Vintage Colby.

You know what I mean? Like, because he's had these long breaks in action. the Leon Edwards fight was ugly that was not a great performance and we talked about that leading into that fight saying like his last couple of wins have come against like Mazadol and Tyran Woodley guys who aren't even in the EEOC or retired

I know Mazmoudal's coming back but like guys who were kind of detail into their career he hadn't had a really big meaningful win you know in a while so it's like what Colby are we getting like you know and so I think that question is still validly what like I know what Buckley we're getting we've seen what Buckley can do recently

I don't know what Colby you're right vintage Colby he can absolutely win this There's not a doubt in my mind. He was, you know, at worst, the second or third best welterweight in the world for a couple years. But now, I don't know. I don't know what to expect. Yeah, I don't know.

He's not. He's, you know, it's surprising. We haven't really seen a lot of, like, social media and stuff, a lot of talking coming out of him. So is he kind of like, yeah, just go in and do my best? It might be good for him, too, right? He might, you know, not being in such a big spotlight. you know, take a little bit of pressure off of him

and he might loosen up a little bit and fight a little bit smarter than usual. So, yeah, that makes a pretty interesting fight, I think. And how old is Colby, by the way? 37, 30, he's up there. 37, 36, 37, yeah, something like that. Yeah, so that makes it interesting too. But I think Colby, his style, right,

works for pretty much any age, you know. It's just a matter. I just think it's going to come down to, can he take a shot from yokein because yokein can can pop really hard very athletic very strong and can yokean stop colby's takedowns because uh if colby can go in and and shoot in put him against the fence take him down it's going to be a bad night for buckley yeah it's interesting it's really interesting but yeah i wonder if like maybe colby's preparing for his post-fight career working in the trump administration so you know maybe that's was he's hanging out he hangs on it marlago

Mara Lago like every weekend now. I'm like, dude, do you live there? Like, do you have an apartment there? Like, what's going on? I've never, I've never been to Marlago. I know it's like a country club, I think. I think it's what it is, like a golf course like country club. But he's there like every weekend now. Oh, that's not good for training camp. Maybe he's just preparing like Dana

said, I have no interest of getting involved in politics. I'm not going to join the Trump administration. Maybe Colby's like, hey, man, I'll take that job. Yeah, I'm sure he is. I'm sure that's the case. Yeah. He is all about the Trump. life so maybe he's going to maybe he's auditioning for a role in the trump administration like all right i'm done fighting could you make me you know secretary of i don't know physical fitness or some shit i don't

know what role you could have in the government but i'm sure it would pay yeah be interested i don't know man but we'll see uh that's a good fight though who else on that card uh what else do we have u s i'm trying to remember who else is on this u s u s is on this adrian yanez is on that card i talked to him a couple days ago that's always a fun fight let's see let's see what the main card is here Quarantillo, that's a good fight. Manel, Manel Cot, Bruno Silva, that's fun. Vitor Petrino, Dustin Jacoby,

Adrian Yanez, Daniel Marcos, Navajos, Stirling, and Tucco, Tocos. I'm not even sure I know those guys. Michael Johnson, Otmane Zator, that's actually a really good fight. Joel Alvarez, Dracar Close, that's actually a really good fight.

Sean Woodson, Fernando Padilla, Miles Johns and Felipe Lima, and Miranda Maverick, Jamie Lynn Horth, Davy Grant, Ramon Tavarez, and Josephine Knutson versus Piero Rodriguez.

I would wager if I put them in a lineup, you would not be able to pick them out, I'm guessing, but, you know, you never know. Yeah, hey, sometimes these cards are the best ones,

right? These guys are young, hungry, and wanting to make a name for themselves. So I definitely try to watch the fight nights, plus they're free. Yeah, exactly. So, you know,

it's not bad. I mean, it's not a star-steaded card, but it's not bad. I mean, Cubs Swanson always fights. I think Menel Kops got something to prove after kind of an ugly fight with Makayev. That fight didn't play out the way I think anyone expected.

I think he's got a little something to prove. Vitor Bertrino is always exciting. Justin Dess and Jacoby's always exciting. That's a really fun fight. Adrian Yanez never has a boring fight. That dude is not capable of a boring fight. So that's an interesting one. So, yeah.

Not a ton of name power outside of Colby and Buckley, but fun fights. Yeah, let's watch it, bro. Let's see it. I'm happy. I'm excited. Last UFC card of 2024. So let's enjoy it because we got like a month long break before we get another one. Yeah, I wish it would do like Pride did.

Like do the New Year's fights, you know, the New Year's card. I always thought that was one of the coolest things, man. I loved it. I know if it's the rise, it doesn't feel the same now, though. Like when Pride did it, man, it was so special. Yeah, it gives you something to do on New Year's other than, you know, watch the fucking ball drop again. There's two things I hate more than anything, the ball drop thing and fucking fireworks on July 4th.

I'm like, well, I don't, I don't understand the attraction to any of this shit. Like, I, it's because you don't have kids. The fireworks are cool when you got kids. Yeah, the kids thing I get. Like, I don't have kids. Like, we went to, here in Columbus, you know what I'm talking about. They have red, white, and boom. I would do that before.

And it's like, it was fun once. I'm like, I couldn't do this every year. Like, I was one-time thing. I don't need to go every year. Yeah, it's not necessarily. Yeah. Yeah. You know, everybody buying $10,000 of fireworks and lighting them off in the back.

backyard. It's kind of silly, but it's my favorite holiday, though. I would choose Fourth of July over the other holidays. Well, I got dogs, too, so fireworks just pissed me off because, like, the dogs go fucking nuts. It's a rough night. Yeah, it's a rough night. So, all right, that's our show for this week. Obviously, we'll be back next. We'll kind of, we'll kind of see how everything plays out with Joaqu Buckley and Colby Covington is. We move into the end of the year. And, of the year, making our picks for, you know, big categories, like fight of the year, we'll have to do some picks like that pretty soon as well in the podcast. Matt, if people want to support you and check you out, where can they go?

What can they do? At I'm Immortal Instagram and Twitter, the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. We got some sponsors, I guess, too. I got the creatine at Try underscore Create. Best creatine gummies around. Yeah, that's the only sponsor right now. There you go. There you go.

And as always, we appreciate everyone tuning in. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and, of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We will see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. The Vox Media Podcast Network.