MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Paddy Pimblett’s Controversial Win over Jared Gordon; Calls Out Judges for ‘Egregious’ Mistakes

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

On the heels of UFC 282 this past Saturday night, The Fighter vs. The Writer returns to react to everything that unfolded including the split draw in the main event and Paddy Pimblett earning a controversial decision over Jared Gordon. UFC welterweight Matt Brown joins Damon Martin on the show to react to everything that unfolded at the final pay-per-view card in 2022. Brown will give his opinion on Pimblett’s performance with many believing he should have left UFC 282 with a loss rather than a win. Where does Pimblett go from here and what are his long term prospects in the UFC? According to Brown, Pimblett should probably stay far away from anyone inside the top 15 rankings at lightweight because he doesn’t believe the results would be good for the always outspoken fighter from Liverpool, England. Brown will also give his thoughts on a number of surprising scorecards handed out by the judges at UFC 282 and why there needs to be a lot more accountability for judging in the sport. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster of the downloaded.

It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the writer. I'm your host, Damon Martin, and I'm alongside the UFC legend himself, Matt Brown. Matt, UFC 282 is in the books now, but let me ask first, how was your weekend?

was a very good weekend. I mean, you know, well, you're a nighttime guy, but on the East Coast we have to stay up to one in the morning to watch these damn fights. It doesn't bother you. You're a night guy. I got kids, dude. I got to get up at 5, 6 in the morning regularly to try to keep your schedule.

I wish, so I'm still a little hungover. It was a great night of fights. But I was actually able to sleep after these fights. The main event kind of put me to sleep. So I was actually able to sleep sometimes, man. I think it was Pereira and Izzy. Yeah, when they fought, I wasn't sleeping for like an hour after that. I couldn't believe it.

Or Edward Zussman, you know, things like that. Sometimes you can't sleep for hours, man. Yeah, no, I, like I said, I mean, I end up working later because obviously I'm doing, you know, writing and stuff. But some nights I have like an adrenaline rush. Like the night of the Wonderboy, the Wonderboy Holland fight had me like that. Like I was on an adrenaline high after that fight. Same with, as you mentioned, Adislania Pereira, wasn't quite. the same with this card i was i was amped up but probably for all the wrong reasons because we like

for such a great car two decisions out of whatever was 11 or 12 fights which is incredible so many finishes great performances and then it all kind of gets marred by the last two fights with the weird judging decisions and we're going to talk a lot about that but it is weird right like because that's what we're going to remember from this event right like that's going to be what we remember most is what happened at the end we kind of forget like pop Onsenivia pulls off this incredible comeback knockout. Ilya knocks out and, you know, goes out there and finishes. Well, hits him, hits him and then submits Bryce Mitchell.

You know, the new 18-year-old kid, Roe-Rosos Jr. goes out there, pulls off a crazy submission in the first round. Like, all these great things happen. We kind of forget about it because of how it all ended. And I know we were just talking about last week. We're not supposed to be betting. This is the first time I should have bet on every fight because I hadn't hit everyone except for two of them on this one.

Yeah, you were picking. I was, dude, so you last week, you pulled the trigger and 100% called the Jared Gordon Patty Pimblit fight. And I'll admit, I feel kind of bad because in my head, I knew Jared Gordon could win that fight. But the reason I didn't pick him was I just thought the moment was going to be a bit much. Like, because you know as well as I do. Some guys or girls, when they step into a big high profile fight against a superstar,

the moment can kind of weigh the first. down a little bit. I think there's a, I've said this numerous times. I think Connor, Connor McGregor, who's, you know, the best ever at this when you talk about mind games and things like that. I think he beats, I think some of his opponents already coming into cage with them at like 75% because they're already, not only mentally defeated from like the, the trash talk, but I'm saying like the spotlight of fighting, like Eddie Alvarez, dude, I was at that fight. When he fought Eddie Alvarez's the UFC 205, Eddie Albrez, the guy's been around forever, fought everybody. Now, I picked Connor to win the fight. Absolutely

confident Connor was going to win that fight. But I didn't think Eddie would just melt in the in the spotlight. And he just, I mean, he just did not show up. Like, he just absolutely did not show up. And I 100% believe it was a combination of Connor, you know, just mentally, just just mentally breaking him, but also the moment. Like first ever MSG card, main event, going for the champ champ status, all this.

I think Eddie just froze like a deer in the headlights that night. I just thought Jared wouldn't be up for the occasion. I honestly admit I thought that. He did, and he won. Listen, let's just get into it. Jared Gordon won that fight. I had a 30-27, Jared. There was no doubt in my mind.

I was like, well, hype train around Patty Pimbled's over. 30-27. And then he loses. That's exactly right. And Jared handled it all very well. I thought if anybody didn't show up for the spotlight, it was Patty. You know, he's one putting all the pressure on everyone. That's exactly what Connor always did great.

I think the best example ever of it was Floyd Mayweather doing it to Canelo Alvarez. He got Canella before Canello was used to the spotlight. And half of it is, I've been in this situation before. There's a large part of it that's all the eyes on you. But most of us can handle that, I think. A lot of guys, like me, I thrive in that. Like I feel better when all the eyes are on me, the bigger the crowd, the better.

It's all the extra obligations that you're not used to doing. leading up to the fight. You're used to being by yourself all week and having your own thing, doing what you want to do, getting your weight cut the way you want. But all of a sudden, now you get your media list at the beginning of the week and you're like, what the fuck?

Like, how am I supposed to manage all this? You know, like, how am I supposed to train it all? Like, I'm not supposed to cut weight? And then you have to go to these media appearances and talk to all these people and you have to present yourself well, too, while you're cutting weight, while you're focusing on the fight. I get I had the feeling that that affected Patty more so than Jared.

Jared seemed very calm, cool, collected through the whole thing. Now, Patty might have handled it well. I can't read his mind, but the way that he fought was not either he didn't come in with a good strategy at all, didn't come in with a game plan, a winning game plan, you know, or maybe all that stuff kind of got to him, got to his head a little bit, the hype got to him. Yeah, it's funny. You called it before, and you said the way that Patty Pimble can win this fight is by taking it to the ground and, you know, basically out grappling Jerry.

He barely, he barely even tried to grab him. I don't know that he actually went for a take down. Jared took him down. It was, it was, and again, we'll get into decision a little bit, but like, Jared fought so smart. And one thing I'll give Patty credit for that I honestly just didn't know, you know, necessarily that he had made. And he showed a chin. He showed good durability because he got him. man Jared hit him with some left hands and I guarantee you most lightways would have gone face first onto the canvas he blasted him with some shots that left hand was landing all night and defensively this is a problem patty pimblitz defense is atrocious I mean he got hit a lot and hard shots now this is not a knock on Jared gordon I'm not saying that because Jared gordon hits hard he's got knockouts he's a really good fighter I'm not saying that but I'm talking about the one punch knockout power guy

The guys we know, they hit you with one shot and your, you know, your heads going in the middle of the third row. You know what I mean? There are guys like that. You think about like a Gaichi or a Porriere, the top level guys that division. Dude, like, I already said there was a ceiling for Patty Pimbleau. You know, I think the ceiling's been breached. Like, I think we've reached the ceiling for him because Jared Gordon's a good lightweight. Jared Gordon is not a top 15 lightweight.

You know what I mean? And for the way that fight went out, for the way that fight went, it was, it was ridiculous. The defense was such a problem for him. Now, you know, can he, can he clean that up? Sure. Can he get better? Absolutely. But like I said, I think I had already had concerns about the ceiling for Patty Pimbleau

and where he was going to go, you know? I think we've reached that ceiling. Like, I'm serious. Like, I don't know that he'll ever be. Because I, listen, I looked at the top 15 lightweights in the world and there's not one guy I would pick him to beat, not one. No, that's exactly right. and the guys from his level up,

like the only guys he's going to be, I think we can see very clearly, it's going to be because of a matchup style versus style. Like he's just got to stylistically, you know, someone that obviously doesn't have her left hand, very good, and does it use it very well,

and someone that Patty can outgraple. But again, like he didn't really even grapple that much, which is really threw me off. And I would love to see Jared Gordon, clearly he doesn't have that one-punch knockout power, with that left hand. Maybe in the right, maybe not.

But I wouldn't like to see him follow up with it a little more. He was landing it a lot, but he just wasn't following up with it. He was kind of coming in, hitting that left hand, and then leaving that to be. And that's a mistake on Jared's part. You know, I think he probably could have hurt Patty a lot worse with a lot with some follow-ups there. Yeah. Like, talking about Patty, you know, like you, listen, I want to give you credit because you saw this going in. You were probably one of the only people that honestly picked Jared Gordon to win that fight.

Now, you know, you got to be proud of that because you saw something in Patty and Jared, particularly, but you saw something in Patty that maybe a lot of people weren't seeing. Now, I've said, and I've been on the record saying that I, again, and I say it now, I think there is a ceiling on Patty Pimblit, how far he can go. He's not Connor. We've said this a million times. Stop making that comparison. He's not Connor McGregor.

And Connor McGregor's fourth fighting the UFC. He was fighting Dust of Porre. You know what I mean? he's not his second vice right max holloway that's not patty pimbled yeah patty pimbled is not there so he's not going to be there he i don't think i don't think he'll ever be a champion i don't think he's ever going to be a top contender especially at lightweight because lightweight is a snake bit but i thought maybe we'd see a couple more of these wins and then he would eventually get to you know let's say a hanato moikana who's like number 15 in the ucc rankings right now and i think

Moikana would just, I mean, I think Moikana would destroy Patty Pimbley. But I thought I thought he'd go a little bit further before we fully got him exposed. I think he's been exposed already. He lost this fight. He did not win this fight. Yeah, and I thought that he would show more

things. Like, really, like a lot of what I was picking Jared based on was Patty's inexperienced, like he's a young kid still. And I thought that, you know, Patty would do some great things. and then, you know, Jared just being a more experienced, older fighter, you know, he's got a lot of age on him. You know, I figured I kind of thought that Jared would be able to find some holes in things like that.

I didn't see as much potential in Patty as I'd expected. Like, I just didn't see like a lot of things, like, so many things in his game are so far behind. that he almost has to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch and, you know, go back to Cage Warriors a little bit and then try again almost. Because he's in, like you said, he's in the snake pit now.

If they move them up, I mean, I don't think they're going to move them up. I don't think after that performance, I think he stays down, you know, fighting the 20 to 30 guys, maybe even lower than that. I think I just looked a little bit, a little bit ago, I think,

even the 20 to 30, 30 and the 30 to 35 guys in this weight class are just killers. Like he's going to have a very hard time. But look, more power to him. He built a great social media brand for whatever reason. I tweeted it there today. I said, I don't know why people like this guy. I don't get it.

Maybe I'm a fucking old grump. Maybe I'm an old man. Maybe I'm a boomer. Whatever. Call me what you're about, right? But look, I don't get like the personality hype that everybody likes about him. But people do. So good for him.

He's going to have to capitalize on that the best he and that seems like that's what he's doing. He's not going to do it based off of his performances in the octagon. They're probably going to move him down, in my opinion. I think that's the move. If you're trying to keep Patty alive and keep

utilizing his height for the UFC machine, if you move him up, he's going to get fucking mollywopped. Moikano makes a, you know, doesn't even have to train for that fight.

I mean, what was his last fight he came in on short notice, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think it was his last one, right? I mean, he literally doesn't even have to train, and he beats Patty any way that he wants. So Patty has a tough road ahead of him, but I think it's pretty, maybe not obvious. I don't know. Like, he's got the social media brand, and that's all there is to it, right?

He's got the social media being he's not going to be a world-class fighter. He's not going to be a top-10 guy. but he's still young too so we can sit here and say that all we want what is he 22 I think no he's 27 oh is he 27 I thought he's younger than that yeah he's just young I mean like I said he seems

I had the same mistake he is he does seem younger yeah he's 27 going on 28 I think I think he turns 28 pretty soon oh man I had that way off yeah wow okay man I even did my research on that and I completely fucked it up so Young from UFC. I mean, that's only his fourth fight in the UFC.

And again, one thing I will give Patty credit for, we talked about this last week, was, you know, when the UFC originally came in for an offer for him, he turned it down and said, I'm not ready. Maybe he should have continued to turn down that offer because I'm still not sure he's ready. I mean, listen, credit to him for beating Jordan Levin, credit to him for beating, you know, Carlos Varga,

and credit to him for beating Luigi Vindromini. Two of those guys are no longer in the UFC, and I think they had a combined, like, three and eight record or something, so it's not like he was fighting top competition. Jared Gordon was probably the first really legitimate guy he fought, and he didn't win. And that's what I said. I honestly believe we've reached the ceiling on Patty Pimble, because it's not like he's, it's not like he's completely inexperienced.

You know what I mean? Like he's got 20-some-odd fights on his record. Now, again, most of I was outside the UFC, but you get four fights in. We start to get a pretty good idea who you're going to be. Now, I'm not saying you can't improve. I was one guy I was 100% wrong on in the past. and I've said this to him personally because I love the guy. When Michael Bisping lost a couple of those number one contender fights,

I said, I don't think Michael Bisping's ever going to be a champion. He just couldn't quite get over that hump. He proved me wrong, and I'm glad he proved me wrong, because I love Michael Bisping, one of my favorite people in this sport. I absolutely adored that dude, and I was so happy I was wrong that he got over that hump and became a UFC champion. Because I just, honest, that's like he kept coming, he kept getting right to that moment, and then he lost the Chelsaun.

He got right to that moment he lost Luke Rockhold and all those kind of things happen. I was like, man, he just might not, he might not just be that guy. And he did. He proved me wrong. Maybe Patty Pimbleau will prove me wrong. Maybe Patty Pimbleau will improve dramatically. In four fights from now, we're talking about him being a legitimate top 10 contender. But based on what I've seen, based on his performances, there's nothing I've seen that convinces me this guy is going to be anything more than, I mean, being honest, Molly McCann, his teammate, Molly McCann, built hype, two big back elbow knockouts, had the whole.

world screaming for. They threw her in there against Aaron Blansfield, and she got absolutely demolished. Aaron Blanchfield ran through her like a buzzsaw. That to me is Patty Pimbled. You gotta be careful with that too, because Aaron Blanchfield is fucking legit, too. No, she's, but that's what I'm saying. Like, I said this on Saturday night. I said, like, but could you imagine? I mentioned Wicano as an example. Armand Syruki and Jalen Turner. I mean, good God. Could you imagine Patty against any of those? Dan Hooker. I mean, Dan Hooker's been on a bit of a bad run lately, but would you want to put Dan Hooker in there

against Patty Pemble? Well, when I look through all the Twitter replies and things about Patty, that's the five most people we're calling for. They're talking about if Patty's going up, Hooker's about the only guy that really makes sense for him where he has a chance of winning. I don't think he has a chance

of winning that one. I don't think he does either. It's a very slim chance if even that. he's going to have to show a lot more than he showed last weekend that's for sure he better not go get fat he better stay in fucking camp and improve his goddamn uh for one his left because dan hooker has a fucking left hook i sparred with the guy that dude has some good power that surprises me how little we've actually seen it in the octagon because when i felt it live and sparring versus what i've seen in the octagon i'm very surprised because he has a lot more power than he shows um that's why I said, you know, they're going to keep Patty down. They're going to, you know, I'm thinking like a Terrence McKinney, maybe a Drew Dober. I think those, I think both those guys are, those are terrible. I think both those guys.

I don't, let me be clear. I don't think Patty has a lot of guys in the UFC that he beats left, you know, unless he goes, like, way down, you know, the debut guys and or, you know, they bring in guys for him to lose to or, or, you know, know, guys that just, they know match up terribly with him, things like that. Anybody with a decent name, like Patty was co-main event. If they're going to put him at co-main event again, you know, he doesn't want to go down on the slot, right? So he wants to stay at least co-main event or main event.

He's got to fight somebody with enough name for that to make sense. If he fights with somebody with enough name, there's nobody out there for him to be. You can go down the whole list of every lightweight. There's nobody for him to be. thing. But when you talk about, you know, the ranking and then he, you know, him going down, the only guys that make sense to me would be like Dober McKinney. They're big enough names to put a co-main event or main event, but he actually has a chance. And, you know, not to me, he doesn't have a chance, but, you know, it's a UFC fight, you know, so he does have a chance.

I think he probably has a better chance with McKinney than with Dober, but. You know, those are just the two names that popped up in my head. Maybe you have different opinions on that. I mean, I don't really know a name, to be honest, because I think McKinney sparks him in one. I mean, McKinney's got one-punch knockout power. If he has those defensive problems with Terrence McKinney, we're talking about, you know, we're talking about, man, man, I feel really bad for Patty Pimbley after he got knocked out like that. And Drew Dober, you train with Drew Dober. I know Drew Dover.

That dude is a monster. He doesn't. Patty Pimble, if that name comes across. across his contract, he might want to just move back to England and stay there and say he's not coming back because he does not want that fight. He does not want. I agree. I mean, I'm, I think Patty would be a massive underdog against either of them. But when I just think about the next matchup, it's got to be somebody below him, right? And it's got to be someone with a big enough name to carry a co-name. Those are the only two names I could come up with. Here's the other

problem I had with Patty over the weekend because listen, when the fight is over and you know, you know, you've been part of close fights, you know, and you believe in your heart of heart you won. And I get that. And I can believe that Patty believes he won the fight. I get it. But I don't know how much you watch the post fight stuff, but it seemed like really smug in some of the responses, like basically saying, I know I won the fight.

Rewatching it, he thought he won all three rounds. Like without question, he thought he won all three rounds. when someone asked him about the weight cutting stuff, which you brought up and made a major point about, and I think you were absolutely 100% spot on, his only response was like, fuck off, like, you know, I don't care. I don't care what you say. I don't care.

Now, maybe this is all public and he's just doing it for show. And as you said, he's a social media superstar. Maybe he's all doing it for clicks and likes and whatever and just trying to get more attention. And maybe, you know, after this fight, he's got to have a serious discussion with a nutritionist and buckle down and do all the things we talked about. him do it. But publicly, the problem I have with Patty is I don't think he's learning.

Like, he looked at that fight with Jared Gordon and essentially, like, the way he spoke about it made it sound like he thought he dominated that fight. Like, he's like, I won. I clearly won. There's no doubt in my mind I won. And rewatching, I think I won all three rounds. No, I don't care about my weight cut. Tell people, fuck off. You don't have to get me, you don't get to ask me about my weight cutting stuff. That's a, if you don't realize your own deficiencies and where you're coming up short. How are you ever going to get better? Who's holding him accountable? Right. You know what I don't know what, I don't know what his true thoughts are. But I mean, if you think about it, like, he is a social media guy. That's his forte, you know, his, really his hobby is

fighting, right? He's a professional social media guy. His hobby is fighting. Like, what else would he say? Right? He doesn't have a real answer for it. Of course, he's going to go ahead and go with the narrative that he won. You know, if he admits defeat, then it makes him look worse. So, you know, just that, and it makes us sit here and talk about it more, right? That's all that he really wants, right? He wants some more clicks. He wants some more views.

He's a social media professional. He's an amateur fighter. So, anyway, what I'm getting at is, like, I wouldn't expect him to say anything different publicly. The only way he's going to improve is if he goes back and does something. soul searching, you know, in his room by himself, not on social media, not on YouTube, not on whatever TikTok fucking shit that he's famous on. But he searches deep within himself and makes some real changes. Now, that's going to require him to accept that those are really, or he's going to have to

decide that this is what he wants. You know, he's going to have to say, do I want to be a social media superstar or do I want to be a fighter? he's going to have to lay off the social media, you know, spend a little more time and energy. That's why I was never big on social media while I was fighting, at least fighting like three or four times a year. That's why we didn't do podcasts, right?

We did our one podcast. I was like, dude, I can't keep doing this. Like, I'm getting ready for fights, man. I can't do this. And like, I didn't have time to do anything else. Like, I barely had time to spend with my own freaking kids. You know what I'm saying? Like, so when these guys, when I see, that's what kind of makes me wonder.

about all of them. Like I see them putting so much time and energy into these other things. It's like, dude, where's your head at? Some guys like Sean O'Malley, he's done a great job at balancing the two somehow. Maybe he's got a team doing social media. I don't know all the details, but he seemed to have balanced it really well. Very talented kid. Good for him. But I think that, you know, you have to go all in on fighting if you're going to be a fighter. You have to sacrifice every single. thing else make the most that you can out of it and then focus on the next thing yeah and and listen again i'll be honest like it could all be just for social media but based on the performances and based on you know what i mean listen you talked about it before the fight like when he um you know when

he shows that he's gained like you know 30 or he gained 50 pounds he was weighing like 20 pounds between fights when you look at photos he's not lying like that's not for social media he's you can tell he's blown up between fights there's a you mentioned it a discipline problem. He's not going to, he's never going to compete with these top guys. And listen, maybe he'll never compete with them because ultimately he's just not that good. Like maybe that's just a reality. And that's okay. Listen, I get it. Not everyone's going to be a champion. Not everyone's going to be a top 10 guy. Not everyone's going to be a fighter who could put 14 years of the UFC. Like, let's say, a legend such as yourself. That's okay. Not everyone's going to do that.

And that's fine. Okay. That's totally okay. But like I said, I don't get that. I don't think there's enough humility built into Patty Pimble that he doesn't believe that. Like, I think in his heart of hearts, he believes he's going to be a UFC champion. And there's a huge gap. There's a huge gap between his, his, his, his mindset and reality. You know what I mean? Like, when Connor said, we're going to talk about this with this generation a lot. And again, probably going back to sounding like a boomer, sounded like an old man or whatever.

but, you know, a lot of these guys, and I don't know patio or store or anything, but I have to wonder if he's kind of got to all this success that he has got from not really such hard work, right? Like social media and stuff, which I don't know how much work he put into that. I know some social media guys who worked very hard at it,

and I spoke with Roman Outwood once about this, right? And he was talking about the, you know, he put in 14, 15 hours, learning, you know, building better edits and, you know, learning the art of being a social media guy. I don't know if Patty did all that. But I'm going to assume that he probably didn't

because I'm a boomer. So I'm going to assume that he's kind of got all of this success by not working hard. And that's going to carry over into his fight life, right? How you do anything is how you do everything. So he's going to feel like he's doing all the right things. He's winning fights. Why do I need to add more to it?

Now, if he can go back, and this is exactly what I'm saying a minute ago, If he can go back, do some soul searching, decide, look, I do want to be a champion. And I'm going to live like I want to be a champion. I'm a sacrifice like a champion. I'm going to dedicate like a champion. Everybody has a chance. You know, he has enough athletic potential for that, I think.

I don't know for sure. But he probably has enough. But he's going to have to change a lot of things in his life, the discipline, the sacrifice, the dedication, the focus. etc. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea.

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Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Yeah, no, you're 100% right. Kind of going off on this with the Patty Pimbley stuff, I want to talk about the judging because, you know,

we sit here and there's a lot of criticism coming towards Patty Pimble. Also want to pay a lot of compliments to Jared Gordon for an incredible performance. He won. I had him 3027, at worst, 29, 28. He won that fight. We talk about robberies a lot. You know, I thought, you know, people freaked out with the Sean O'Malley, Peotryon fight, and I disagreed.

I said that was just a close fight. Like I actually scored it for O'Malley. I don't have a problem if you scored for Peter Yon. It was a close fight. This wasn't that. This wasn't a close fight. This was a robbery. And I know a lot of people are bringing up Doug Crosby

because Doug Crosby also had that crazy scorecard on Friday night at Bellator where he scored Danny Sabatella winning 5045, one of the worst scorecards I could ever remember seeing in mixed martial arts. He suddenly goes from Connecticut. flies across the country to Las Vegas and ends up scoring the Patty Pimblit, Jared Gordon fight. He scores it 2928 for Patty Pimlet, gave Patty Pimlet both the first and second round, which to me was Jared Gordon for sure.

But also I want to call it Chris Lee and Ron McCarthy. They were the other two judges. A lot of people are focused on Doug Crosby. I also want to mention Chris Lee and Rob McCarthy because this wasn't a split decision. This was a unanimous decision and an egregiously bad decision. And you mentioned on Twitter, Matt, and that's why I want to be. bring it up now. You talk about like, we talk about the judging and how bad it is in terms of like the scoring and are they falling criteria, all that kind of stuff. We forget sometimes

a harsh reality for the other side, being the fighters. Jared Gordon got half his purse. Dana handed out bonuses to every fighter who got a finish and he gave fight of the night to Dracus Duplice and Darren Till. So Jared Gordon didn't get a bonus. He gets a loss on his record. in the biggest most high-profile fight of his career. You mentioned how much a win would have meant to Jared Gordon on Saturday night? Not only would he got obviously half his paycheck, which is financially the biggest thing. He still doesn't get a bonus based on the criteria

that the UFC set forth on Saturday night, but he still gets his money. He gets a high-profile win over a superstar like Patty Pimbled. He gets a co-main event slot. Now, maybe they call controversy. what? Maybe they run it back. He gets an even bigger payday and they do a main event with Patty Pimbley. Maybe he gets that. He wins. His next fight's a co-main event. Maybe he gets the top 15 guy. He gets another high profile fight. Jared Gordon is not Patty Pimble in terms of star power.

So imagine how much a win for him does. Now, I'm not saying it all goes away because there's going to be a little bit of buzz for this next week to 10 days, maybe two weeks where people are going to say you got robbed. You didn't deserve this, blah, blah, blah. Guess what? It all goes away after that. You know what I mean? He gets completely, for lack of a better word, he gets completely fucked by the judges here. And there's no, and there's no

repercussion for them, none. That's exactly right. Nothing. Their lives don't change one bit. And the, you know, we live in a fast moving information age, right? Like you said, and Patty said it himself, like

the history books are going to have a W for Patty. That's what we're going to remember a couple months from now. Maybe people like me and you, we might look back a couple years from now. Oh, I remember that bullshit decision. 99.9% of the people are going to look back and say, dude, Patty won. Like, we don't care about what the fucking judges said. You know what I mean?

So, and then the one part, I don't have a whole lot to add to that Twitter post, you know, like that was pretty much, you know, about it, except the only thing I could have. I was like, look, what about sponsors too? You know, you go and you win a big co-main event, like more sponsors are going to look at you. You know, there's so many pieces to this. And look, say Jared Gordon goes and wins his next two fights. What are they going to say?

Oh, he's two and one in his last three rather than three and oh. I don't know how many fights he has left on his contract, but that's, you know, when he starts negotiating his next contract, that's going to play a factor in that. There's so many future things that this place. plays a factor in. I've won and lost my fights. I know, you know, the differences here. The losses affect long term. It's not overnight. Okay, we're cool. I mean, we're warriors, right? Like, we get up the next day and we fucking, you know, get ready for the next thing. That's cool. We can

handle it mentally. But the positive rewards that come out of a win, especially a win like that, It wouldn't been too different from when I fought Wonderboy, right? And I won, you know, what if they would have gave him that decision? Like, certainly the rest of my career would have been completely different. The rest of his career would have been different. A lot of things would have been different. So I've been in similar situations. I've had bad judging before.

and I mean, yeah, I don't have a whole lot to add to that. I mean, that is exactly what it's fucking bullshit, man. And the judge is where they do. They go home and they sleep at night. They get paid the same. They get no accountability. I'm glad that you're saying their names. That's one thing I would like that.

I'm glad you're saying names. That's what we need to do is start putting their fucking names out there, putting their social media out there. They need to be hearing at minimum. They need to be hearing from the fans and the fighters, media, whatever. putting their names on blast and look, when it's a decision that bad. Like there's some that, you know,

like you said, Peter Jan, Sean O'Malley. I had it for Yon. I don't know if I, like it was like borderline robbery in my opinion, but like I can't see how you give it to Sean. But at the same time,

I'm like, okay, I take it back. I can kind of see how you give it to Sean. But I totally had Yon winning. So that's a little different. One like this, it was egregious.

Like there's no other word for it, right? This was a fucking bullshit decision. And the judges need to be held accountable. 100%. That's my biggest issue that it never changes. Like, I'm not even talking about like in the criteria. Because based on the criteria, Jared Gordon won. Everyone knows George Jared Gordon won.

Everyone except apparently Patty Bimbled knows that Jared Gordon won that fight. So I'm not even talking about like, you know, how they scored the fight because that's, that's a whole other conversation. And we can talk about that for date. But what about these three judges? They just go on and they fight. They're going to score fights this weekend. They're going to score fights next weekend.

There's no accountability. And I've said this forever. Like, and here's the part that really, really pisses me off, Matt. When referees make bad calls, consistently bad calls, we don't see them anymore. Now, to be fair, obviously referees are toying with fighters' careers in terms of safety. We understand that. Like a fight, a guy who doesn't stop a fight, doesn't know when to stop. a fight. He either can get you seriously injured or, you know, we've seen cases where guys get

you know, fights stop where they're not even hurt or they're not caught in submission. They get stopped. But so we've seen referee. Like where, when's the last time you saw Eve Levine referee a fight in the UFC? I don't know if he wants to referee fights anymore. I'm just saying like, when's the, Steve Mazagati, that's the famous one everyone knows that. Kim Winslow is another one. Like there's referees we know have made really bad calls consistently and they're just gone. Now, again, maybe they just choose. to walk away, but they're gone. Like, they just get, like, they're gone from our memories because they were bad.

Judges don't do that. I never see judges just suddenly go away. Doug Crosby has been consistently one of the worst judges in mixed martial arts for a decade. And he's still scoring high-profile fights like this. He scored a title fight on Friday, flew across the country to score the co-main event in the UFC on Saturday. Why? Like, that's the problem.

If there's, if there's a judge out there who's giving these, I remember talking to Frank Trigg, who is a referee in California now. And we were talking on the podcast months ago, and I said we were talking about more fighters getting involved in the judging and refereeing site because he's doing it. Shaolin Hibaro, if you remember him, he's doing refereeing now, things like that. And Trigg told me that one of the reasons it's so hard is Andy Foster in the California Commission, who I think is the gold. standard of commissions in this industry. He requires them to go through thousands of hours of training in terms of doing amateur shows, doing the small regional circuits, blah, blah, blah, before you get to do UFC and

Bellator and things like that. Now, I'm not saying that Nevada and these other commissions are not giving them training and things like that, but if Doug Crosby watched Danny Sabatello and Rayfion Stats and gave that a 1545, then watched Patty Pimblet and Jared Gordon gave that a 29, 28 to Patty Pimbleau. With both the first and second round going to Patty Pimbleau, then this dude shouldn't be scoring big fights. Send him back to the regional circuit. Now, I'm not saying the regional fighters don't deserve better, but I'm saying like, send him

back down, let him get experience on amateur fights where the wins and losses don't really matter or whatever. And if he can prove himself over the next year that he's worthwhile to bring back, then bring him back. But the fact that there's no repercussion for this, you know what I mean? Like, we're not going to hear Doug Crosby got suspended or got knocked down or he'll be back next weekend. All these, there's always like this circle of like 20 judges. And not all of them are bad.

Let me be clear. Not all the judges are bad. But these judges, like, Chris Lee, Ron McCarthy and Doug Crosby, how do you account for this? How do you account for such a terrible, terrible decision that just took away Jared Gordon's money, took away opportunities from Jared Gordon. How do you justify this? Man, yeah, a lot of great points there. And I don't know for sure, but I've thought about this before.

One solution, helpful solution, I've always been an advocate for open scoring since the beginning, you know, since I first heard about the idea. I've always been an advocate for that. But when we talk about the referees getting, I mean, we absolutely, you know, whether there's social media or publicly on, podcast, whatever, the media, you know, they get ran through the dirt when they make bad

decisions. And I theorize that there's a little aspect of because their face and their body is being shown on the TV screen, whereas the judges are really in the shadows. Like, I don't even know what Doug Crosby and McCarthy and all these guys. I don't even know what they look like, you know, and I've been to fights. I don't even know where they're sitting in the fights. I don't know who's a judge, like who's just a bystander or whatever. I don't know who these guys are.

I don't know anything about them. But we know Herb Dean. We know who Herb Dean is and what he is, what he's about. Like, we know a lot about him. Or Steve Mazagati or Dan Murgleada. Like, we know these guys. They're characters that are like integrated into the sport and a part of the sport. When these guys are in the shadows, I think it kind of gives them a little.

bit of, I don't know, something, you know, a wall, like in between us and them. And I think if we took that out, I think it would help. Like, show them, you know, put a little screen, do an open scoring, show a little screen of that guy sitting there, you know, or his face or something of him showing the score. I would also like to see them have to justify the score, you know. I mean, I have a million different ideas for all these things. And, you know, I don't want to have to get into it too much today. We can take an entire podcast talking about ideas.

And, you know, maybe we'll do that someday and, you know, write them down and do it thoroughly and all the way through. But I think there's a lot of different ideas. And the biggest issue with this whole thing is, I think, like, no, there's no evolution, right? there's no like it's just it's it's so 10, 9 and that's it. You know like there's, I mean that we

evolved the criteria a little bit but half the fucking criteria is subjective, you know, and and I'll add to this I don't necessarily think that fighters getting involved in the judging and refereeing is necessarily the solution either. I know that I hear this all the time. Like, yeah, get the fighters in there.

Like just because they have the experience fighting, just like a great fighter doesn't make a great coach necessarily. It doesn't make a good judge or referee either. And trust me, if you put Damien Mayett in their judging, he's going to give a 10-9 to the guy who does Jiu-Jitsu every fucking time, right? Even if he got his ass beat on the feet. If you put Anderson Silva, he's going to give it to the guy who's doing the Muay Thai. You know what I'm saying?

So there's a lot of bias. If you put Matt Hughes in there, he's going to give it to the wrestler, right? Like this is, there's tons of problems with having fighters do it. And their bias is just scratching the surface of it. No, you're absolutely right. And also, you know, just to bring that up when I say wrestlers, like I was talking specifically about trade because he's doing it in California. But you're right.

That's not an easy, that's not an automatic fix. The bigger problem, though, ultimately is that you're right. It's not gotten better. Like, even with, like, they try to improve their criteria to make it clear cut and saying now, you know damage striking and submissions are number one across the board and then only if that is even only if that is dead even do you go to other criteria like aggressiveness and octagon nobody does it nobody does that nobody is ridiculous and even just take that first criteria right there damage like what do you call damage yeah punch brian barbara i punched brian barbaraena harder than

fuck i thought like i'd probably damaged him but he looked at me like a fucking caveman you He was like, well, what did you do that for? You know? Like, but I'm like, so do you consider that damage or not? Right. Now, let's say, for instance, just that particular fight, he hit me back. I got cut. He barely touched me, though.

And that's why it cut, because it grazed me. He didn't actually damage a single thing. But the judges are going to see a cut and like, oh, well, that's damage. Whereas I punched him harder than shit. And, and it probably caused. more long-term damage to his livelihood, right? But so which one is damage? Well, the judge is going to see, you know, some silly little cut as damage.

So damages. And some people, they just marr up easier, right? Some people just simply bruise easier. I mean, how many fights have we seen where guys get the shippied out of them? Their face doesn't even look that bad. And you're like, dude, like, how did that happen? And then you see someone else that gets the ship, not even beat out of them that bad. and their face looks like they've been through a five-round warms.

So, you know, damage is such a- Look at, look at, uh, look at Wonderboy Kevin Holland. If you put those two guys next to each other after that fight, you'd 100% think Wonderboy got his ass kick because he had cuts all over his face, bruised up. He looked beat up. Kevin Holland looked completely like he looked like he hadn't been in a fight. But you watch the fight and Wonderboy was, you know,

beating him across one side of the octagon to the other, especially the third and fourth round. But based on damage, you know, damage, Wonderboy looked like he went through the, he looked like he fucking fought a cheese grater. And Holland looked like he didn't, you know what I mean? Like,

how do you grade, that's such a subjective. It's such a subjective term. It's just such a subjective term. And you watch that fight, Gordon was blasting Patty. Now again, I said give credit to Patty for having a good chin.

But if we're talking damage, yeah, Jared had a couple cuts. He looked a little more beat up, but does that mean he had more damage? You know, he did far more damage to Patty Pimbled. Patty Pimble was just able to survive better.

Are we going to give them points for surviving? Like, is that where we're right now? Right. Or what if, like, I, you know, I kick your leg 20 times and you're barely able to walk, but you punch my face once or twice and I'm cut up and bruised up. You know, it's like, well, who did more damage?

You know, like, you're not walking in the third round. You know, even, but what are you going to see? You're not going to see or even like leg kicks. Like, that's a, I mean, that's a, perfect example where like, okay, it looks damaging, but I laid it with the foot. So really just slapped and your skin's going to burn pretty bad. And versus, you know, it's in Barbosa throws a kick and lands with the shin. And, you know, the guy is tougher and shit and isn't really showing any signs of it hurting him. But it actually is, right? And he dug it in deep and you don't

hear no slap or anything because he landed with the shit. I mean, we could go on all day about this. I mean, it's just a fucking the most subjective thing I've ever seen, and that's the top scoring criteria, is damage. My fight with Carlos Conant, I think was a perfect example. A lot of, two or three of the judges gave him the first round, like, what the fuck?

Probably based off damage. My eye got cut from the cage. Like, I took him down against the cage. My eye landed on the cage, or hit the cage, got cut, and they're probably basing it on that. So I look like I just got my ass kicked in this round, but I controlled

him the whole round. It's like, so you know, this, the subjectiveness is absolutely insane and it just goes so far and that's their number one criteria. So the judging, I mean, boy, we could go on, I said, we have to do a whole

fucking podcast about this because it is such fucking bullshit. And then you're going to base it on, you know, on a black and white system coming from boxing 10, 9. But that's black and white, right? You won or you lost the round.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Like there's levels to winning and losing. I know that they have 10-8s, but it's pretty fucking rare and it's hard to get a 10-8. And I mean, and that leads right into the main event, right? They gave it 10-8 for Anka-Live in the fifth round. You know, two of them didn't. I mean, that goes to how far this is subjective, you know.

and it changed the outcome of that fight. Yeah, it's, and it's really bizarre, too, because, like, that's another one. Like, I don't know, I don't know if I heard, I don't think I saw you scored. I had a 48, 47, Ankelaev. I didn't really think it was that controversial of a scorecard. I thought he won round one. I thought Yon won round two and three with the leg kicks. You talk about leg kicks.

He was taking Ankelye's legs out. But then Ankelyev turned to his wrestling and his grappling, and Yon got stuck underneath him for rounds four and five. I really didn't think it was that hard of a fight to score. maybe I'm wrong. I mean, and I'm fine. A lot of people are saying round one was closer than that. I thought Ankely have won. I didn't, it wasn't like a blowout, but I didn't think it was like super controversial to say to Ankelai of one round one.

I thought, Yon won two and three pretty clearly. And I thought Enkaliah of one, four, and five pretty clearly. I mean, on that criteria, I thought it was pretty easy to score that fight. And they're all over the board. I mean, Jan had a win on one scorecard and then the other one. He would have won if not for that 10-8 and the fifth. The other judge had him up 3-1. And if not for that 10-8-fifth, it would have been

Jan Bolshe's champion. Now, that's not a knock on Jan, but that scoring's like all over the board. And that to me was, I mean, that was right along with the Jared Gordon fight where it's like, I didn't think it was really that hard to score. Right, right. And again, I don't necessarily think fighters,

I don't think the answer is burden fighters in judging or in refereeing, but consulting with fighters. And this is why I say this, because we walk out of that fight with Jan saying, Uncle I have won. Him literally look at him and said, no, you fucking won this fight. And I'm mad props to Jan for that, right?

Like how many people have you ever seen that in any fight, nonetheless, a world championship fight? So, you know, bow down to Yon for that. God damn. There's something that judges, especially guys that have never trained, do not understand it. I think me and you've talked about this before.

When you go into a round, nine times out of 10, you know if you won that. that round. Now, there's a lot that are very close, but there's a feeling inside of yourself, just like in a sparring round or anything, like, even if it was close, like, you know if you were ahead or behind. You may not know what the judges think. This is why I'm an advocate for open scoring. You may not know exactly what the judges think, but you have a feeling of like whether you're ahead of the guy, whether you're behind the guy, like, kind of like, do I have

his timing? Do I have his rhythm? Am I landing what I'm trying to land? And my, my, moving where I want to move when I want to move. Am I accomplishing what I want to accomplish? And this is something without these judges ever have experience fighting. Some of them probably don't even have experience training. Without that experience, you're never going to truly understand that. And that needs to be somehow expressed to them. So, again, they don't necessarily need to be fighters, but they need to understand

that sort of dynamic between two fighters, knowing if they won and lost. I don't know if does that sense? No, it does. It absolutely does. And like I said, you have to be able to know, you have to be able to truly understand what you're seeing in there. Like I said, just because Patty Pimbled can absorb a strike better than Jared Gordon

in terms of like eating a punch and walking through, it doesn't mean that it takes away the power of that punch. You know what I mean? It doesn't negate Jared Gordon landing the better punch. It's just because Patty can eat it and keep moving forward. that doesn't make any sense to me. Like it doesn't make any sense. You know what I'm talking about?

Like you're talking about with the cuts and things like that. Like damage is subjective just like that. Like if you see a guy with cuts all over his face, well, yeah, he got more damage. Really? Did he get more damage? Or is he like Nate and Nick Diaz who they just have a huge amount of scar tissue and you literally breathe on him and they start bleeding? Like there's some guys like that. Like that's just how the nature of, you know, when you're a grizzled veteran, scar tissue and things builds up,

you could get a light tap and suddenly you're bleeding, you know what I mean? Or head clashes, all kinds of things cause cuts that have nothing to do with you taking a big punch or a kick or anything like that. They don't. Like in pigmentation, right? Like these very pale fighters,

like you see the redness. You see the blue or the, you know, the black eyes, the redness and redness. And you see all this much more clearly. Yeah. And so understanding it.

And understanding and knowing what you're watching. And listen, I understand there's going to be close decisions. I admit that. I've seen plenty where I'm like, man, I don't, man, that's a tough one to score. I get that. But there's so many instances where that's not the case, where we got a Patty Pimble, Jared Gordon situation, or even Ankelaev, Jan Blahevich, where it seems pretty clear who won. And listen, also you mentioned credit to Jan Blahovic, huge credit to Jan Blahovic.

I mean, good Lord, he basically said, give him the belt. He won. Give him the belt. I mean, what a, what a freaking dude. That is right there to just be like, you know what? I don't feel like the winner. Give him the belt. Like that, talking about the complete opposite of Patty Pimblins.

They're saying I won all three rounds. I definitely won this fight. But John Blahov is like, nope, I didn't get it. He won, give him the belt. Like, you know, obviously they're not going to do that. But, dude, what a, what a freaking amazing, you know, gesture to go out there to at least say that because he didn't, he didn't feel he won the fight. Yet the judges are saying it was a draw or whatever.

I just, the judging is so, and again, like, it's consistently bad across the board. You feel like, like when you see this and you see the scorecards come out and you mention it, and listen, I'm not trying to make anyone's life harder, but when you're messing with people's livelihood and their paychecks and things like that, you should be called out for that. And so we all, all the time on Twitter and social media, we tend to say the judges got it wrong. The judges didn't score it properly. The judges didn't get this. it out by name, man, Doug Crosby, Ron McCarthy, Chris Lee, the guys of the Patty Pimbley fight,

they need to be called out by name. You know what I mean? How are we going to, because I remember, do you remember, do you know a referee by the name of Jaron Vallele? Do you know that name? No. He's a referee. And I think he judges too sometimes.

He was in a couple of fights a few years ago in the UFC. It was a fight. There was one fight with Mark Munoz and one fight with Josh Kostek, where he literally let them get completely choked out unconscious and they were bubbling, spit from the United States. their mouth because they were so unconscious and choked out and he didn't stop the fight and I said this guy does not need to ever be a referee again and every time I see him now I call it out and I say oh God, Jaron Villal is a referee here goes something crazy because and I would say eight tens out of 10 I'm right because something weird happens but people start remembering that because I mention

him by name so often my followers on Twitter like oh yeah that's the guy you talked about three cards ago blew something up you know what I mean we got to call this out. Doug Cross He's getting a lot of attention right now because he blew two cards this weekend. But again, and this is, I'm not trying to make Chris Lee and Ron McCarthy's job any harder, but the reality is, is you just made Jared, Jared Gordon's life harder by taking away a win from him. You know what I mean? You just, they literally booked a title fight on the fly on Saturday night to give Glover Tashire and Jamal Hill a month from now in Brazil. They're going to fight for the light of the title because the judges couldn't figure out that Maga Man Inc.

have won that fight. Now, Dana White can complain and say it was the most exciting fight in the world. I actually kind of disagree. I actually thought it was a pretty good fight. I didn't think it was like a barn burner. But I thought, yeah, that was pretty good. But Ankelyev, now Ankelyev and Blahubis were just out twisted in the wind. Neither one against the title.

And they're not going to get to fight for the title again. Look what you did. I'm surprised. Dana said it was a boring fight. I didn't hear him say that. Yeah, he said it was, he said he tuned out like after the third round. He didn't like it. He thought it was bad.

I disagreed. But regardless. It was a very tactical fight at minimum. I was good. I didn't think it was a bad fight. I thought it was okay. Yeah, it wasn't a barn burner, like you said, but there was like some twists and turns.

And that's kind of like what I look for, you know, when I say a good fight, right? I'm not necessarily looking for it to be a barn burner and a knockout brawl, but I like the ups and downs and twists and turns and the changes of tactics. I mean, that's what makes it a good fight. Like, can you get back to, you know,

the tactic that was winning for you? And, you know, that was exactly, you know, Uncle Iov was getting tore up in his legs and he had to switch up the tactic. You know, like that's what makes it a good fight. That's what makes him a good fighter. He's able, he's diverse enough that he's able to pull out different tactics. I mean, to me, that's what makes a great fight. But yeah, that really sucks for Anthony Smith now, right?

So, you know, as that leaves him hanging, he's in the dry. Boy, that's tough. And now, so because of that judging, like we were just talking about, it fucks. Jared Gordon he gets fucked and now it fucks Ankleyev Jan Blakowich

and Anthony Smith because of one or maybe a couple of judges Yeah it's crazy We got to change Yeah like it's ridiculous It's even with this far Like we knew that bad judging

has been a problem for a long time And again I have never seen any real evolution it just it continues to be a problem and I just don't see any evolution and that's what you know a lot of people critique the open scoring idea and I'm like

dude we already have shitty scoring like just try something like even if even if it doesn't work out like I think it will and I think that I have we've talked about this argument before and I'm happy to debate it with anyone

here every side but like can we try fucking something yeah I mean, there's, I mean, there's, I mean, the problem is, and like, even taking the open scoring out of it, because I agree, I'm all for open scoring. I think it's a good idea. I don't understand, like, we have, it feels like we have this argument, like four times a year when there's a really bad scorecard, a really bad fight gets just completely fucked by the judging. And nothing ever changes.

And we're always talking about these same people, making these same bad decisions. maybe it's not Doug Crosby every time. Maybe it's another guy or whatever, you know, however the case may be. But like, remember, like, here's a great example. Remember what was the boxing match? Was it, was it? I can't remember what it was. Was it the Canelo Triple G-Fo?

I was Adelae-Bird who had that really just horrendous scorecard. And they took her off of scoring for, like, one event, and then she came right back. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, we know, we know a whole lot of discussion about boxing judging, and that's a whole other discussion. But it's in general in judging is what I'm saying, like, nothing changed. There's never any repercussion. As I mentioned before, Eve Levine doesn't refer anymore. Steve Mazzagati doesn't referee anymore. Kim Winslow doesn't refer anymore. Why? Because they made so many bad calls. They're just like, we can't have them anymore. Judges don't face those repercussions. They just don't. And it's ridiculous because as bad as it is when a referee makes a bad call and somebody gets hurt or something like that. That's awful. We all admit that's awful. But as you said, that's visual. We see it. And then they get, they get. cast out like you know whatever um judges don't have that there's no repercussion there's no you know what man we're just not going to use you anymore like we're just we're done with you like we just can't keep

having this happen we're not going to sanction you to be a judge in the state anymore that never happens at least none to my memory or can we just put them in front of a committee and be like okay let's watch this round and you explain what you were seeing and tell me how you came to this fucking ridiculous conclusion, buddy. Yeah. Staying in front of Jared Gordon. Explain him how he lost that fight. Yeah, even if it's not a repercussion for it,

like, look, buddy, we're not going to find you. You're not going to sit out. You're not losing your job. But how about you explain this one? Like, can we start a YouTube with this? Where they just, the judges have to sit down. Maybe we could get some on the podcast and we call them and we watch the fight with them.

We say, okay, explain this round from, you know, five years ago, whatever. Like, try to explain it, motherfucker. Come on. Yeah, and I've sat in, California does, I've sat in a couple of commission meetings where they actually have scoring meetings. Now, again, I think Andy Foster is the gold standard of commissions. And I remember I sat in when they've done scoring and they've had debates about scoring rounds, like how you score it, you know what I mean? Like, did you score to 10, 8, 10, 9, those kind of questions. And I love it because I get a little different perspective about what they're seeing and how they're seeing it.

And even though sometimes I disagree with it. but there's got to be more. I mean, and I appreciate that that's happening, but there's got to be more. And again, like, you're taking away a guy's livelihood. You've just, you've just taken away so many opportunities from Jared Gordon by not giving him that win.

You've taken away, I mean, Magamemann Ankelaev, let's just say he should have won. How did you, I don't remember if I asked you, how did you score that fight with Ankeliyev and Blohoevich? How did you have it? I don't hate the score as much as a lot of people do. I had Enkuliav winning one, four, and five. but the fact that it ended up a draw, I think is understandable.

So I don't necessarily hate that one as much as everyone else. Yeah, that's about it. I mean, it was. But you and I had the same scoring, one four and five, right? So now, but let's just say Angolaev, now it's a draw. Okay, so Ankaallia doesn't have a title, which means his next fight is not going to be a title fight. He's not going to get championship pay.

you know what I mean that's automatically higher pay when you're a champion you don't get pay-per-view points maybe he fights imagine if Avali if wins this fight and he ends up fighting in the co-main event to John Jones and Francis and Ghanu and he gets pay-per-view points that's life-changing money that's millions of dollars not going to get that now I think what you're getting at look at Dominic craze yeah right that's the perfect example right if he beat John Jones at night which I think a lot of people had him winning I don't I don't know how much bad that scorecard was. I didn't never, I didn't never watch that fight that closely.

But a lot of people called it a robbery. You know, say that, he wins that fight. His life is completely different than it is now, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, dramatically different. I mean, yeah. So that's what I'm talking. And there's, you know what? And I'll be, I'm sitting here, you're bringing that fight. You're absolutely right. I scored that fight for Dominic Gray as I did. And I've told

him that many times and I've said that publicly. And I, listen, I praise John Jones. I call John Jones the greatest fighter in the history of mixed martial arts. But I thought he lost that fight. I don't remember the judge's names from that fight. I mean, I don't. I can look it up, but I don't remember their names, you know what I mean? But we remember when referees make, but I just mentioned Jared Fallow. I know two fights in particular, he blew up and screwed up.

I can't name you the judges who screwed up to John Jones Dominic Reyes. And I guarantee you a month from now, I'll probably forget Ron McCarthy and Chris Lee's name because I know Doug Crossby. That's one that I've had on my radar forever as a bad judge. But you're absolutely right. Like, we need to know these people. They need to be held accountable. If nothing else, they need to be held accountable in the court of public opinion. Because if Chris Lee and Ron McCarthy and Doug Crosby go out there and they score,

let's say the fight this weekend, Jared, Jared Canineer and Sean Strickland, it's another, you know, decision. And let's say Sean Strickland absolutely deserved to win. And they gave it to Jared Cannier and let's say one of the judges is Ron McCarthy. Shouldn't Ron McCarthy face some sort of repercussion? He gets two in a row like that. He completely gets it wrong. I mean, Doug Crosby did it this past week.

weekend with the Sabatello fight and now Patty Pimble's fight. There's just nothing. I guarantee you Doug Crosby is going to be out there scoring fights next weekend or two weekends from now. You know what I mean? Like there's no repercussion for these guys. Yeah. What fuck do you do, right?

How we can do sit here and talk about it. And that's the best we can do, man. But let's try to remember these motherfuckers' names and put them out there. He said in the court of public opinion. And that's why I do think, like just at minimum, like even just putting their faces up there. I like that idea. Put them on camera.

When they say, they always announce the judges, put them on camera, put a camera down there and show them who they are. Yeah, how about they announce their scorecard instead of Bruce Buffer?

I mean, you know, something like just to build a memory with these guys and, you know, and, you know, I wonder if you kind of could look at

who's judging your fight as a fighter, right? And you're kind of looking to like, okay, well, I know this guy is going to be a little biased.

towards this or a little bias towards this and maybe that can help you even know kind of what you're getting into a little bit maybe i don't know about you know that well you get you get i know from the past i remember this when you have a fight and a referee like you can go to the commission before your fight and disagree with a referee being assigned to your fight we've seen this you know what i mean some guy mike beltrane had this last weekend with uh the the uh juliana velasquez as Liz Carmush fight, Velasquez, was 100% convinced that Bell Transcrued her, which I disagree, whatever,

but I'm saying like she felt, and she could have gone to the commission and said, I don't want him referee. We've seen it before. I think Brock Lesnar made that request. There's other people who made that request. Why can't you do with the judges? Why can't you go in and say,

I don't want Doug Crosby anywhere near my fight? Right, right. And for me personally, I talked to the referee backstage beforehand, and I know what I'm getting into with that referee. I've been around this sport a long time and obviously had a lot of fights

and watched them. And I kind of know like, okay, this guy tends to stop fights or this guy tends to stand people up really quick. You know, this guy lets him fight a little more. They don't always necessarily live up to what you expected out of them.

But that is a little piece in your mind. And they give you a little speech backstage and they tell you this and that. Yeah, and I think I don't see any reason why a judge couldn't do that too. Like, look, you know, I'm going to base it solely off damage, right? You know, you know what I mean?

Like something, I don't know. Well, there's got to be accountability. But accountability, as we just said, I bring up Eve Levine, and we talk, I joke with you all the time. Your fight with Pete Sell, where you literally, I thought Pete Sell must owe to Eve Levine money because you were just absolutely bludgeoning this poor guy. And you look to Eve Levine, like, dude, look at him. He's done. And he's just like, oh, I don't know what's good.

And you had to keep you. You did not want to. keep hitting Pete Sell. You knew the fight was over and Eve Levine was basically like, this guy's going to get, but we remember that. Years, how long ago was that fight? I still remember Eve Levine screwing up that fight. But you know what? And here's the sad truth. And I'm guilty of this too. Your fight with Brian Barbarina here in Ohio, I don't remember the judge's names. I don't. I don't. You're absolutely right. We need to shine a light on these people so they can be held accountable because we do it with referees. We got to do it with judges. We have to.

Yep, and that's the best, you know, change nothing solution that I have, right? You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of things I think can be changed with the criteria. I think there's things that can be changed with, again, open scoring. I think there's things that can be changed with the stupid 10-9 system. You know, a lot of different things that are more administrative changes. There's no reason, you know, the simplest thing, like the UFC themselves, just in the production, can just shine some light on judges.

is who's judging. This is what you're dealing with. You know, and maybe I'll find a way where they have to justify. I don't know. You know what we're going to do? You know, I think it's a good idea. Now, this isn't going to work in Brazil because I may not work in Australia either because we don't get it ahead of time. But with Nevada, Nevada always, before a title fight, when they do their commission hearing, they assign referees and judges. I think what we and I need to do, let's say March when they go back to Vegas. I think March 4th, that pay-per-view is going to be in Vegas. So the February meeting, they'll assign if there's a title fight on that card, whatever it ends up being. You and I, when the committee, because I always cover the commission hearings,

I'll write down the referee and judges over, let's just say it's John Jones, Francis, and Ghana. When they announced that fight and we know the referees and judges, you and I on the podcast here, we should actually look at those judges and talk about them on the podcast. I say, okay, Doug Crosby is scoring this fight, and we know he's going to be scoring this fight. We should absolutely go in the past in his history and look at his resume and say, you know what? I see like 10 examples here where this guy had a bad scorecard. We need to watch out for this guy beforehand. Now, it's not going to work all the time because not everyone announces who's judging what until you're like the night of the fight.

But when we get it ahead of time, like we know from Nevada, they always assign the referees and judges ahead of the fight. I think you and on the podcast should start doing that. So when I get the list, I'm going to send it to you. And I'll say, here's who's refereeing in Gano Jones. And then by the, or here's who's judging in Gano Jones. When we come on the podcast that following week, you and I should be able to talk about those judges and say, here's who's judging. Here's who we need to watch out for. Here's what they've done in the past.

That, I think, is at least a somewhat small solution. At least we're going to bring these people to the forefront. Do you agree? Do you think that would be a good idea? I think it's a good idea. And, you know, I know you can go on. You can see all their resume, their, their, past judges,

their fights and what they score, or past fights that they judge and what they scored them. And, yeah, so I think that's a good start. I mean, you know, put them on some sort, you know,

put them on a platform and, you know, let's put these guys on, on, you know, on blast, man, you know. I mean,

listen, it's better than, it's better than nothing and nothing is what's happening right now. Exactly right. I think you're dead on with that. I'm down for it. All right. That's our plan.

Again, we have to kind of put it off until March because we won't find out who's going to, because Brazil and Australia don't announce that stuff ahead of time until the night of the fight. So we'll probably have to wait until March. Well, we'll do it in March. We'll find out in March. And we'll start doing it for every time we can find out ahead of time and we can record a podcast about it. We'll shine a light on it. Because, again, it's better than nothing.

And nothing is all that's happening right now. Real quick before we get out of here, Matt, I do want to. We had a lot to talk about the judging. and, of course, the Patty Pimbley fight real quick before we get out of here. There were a lot of other impressive performances on Saturday. I mentioned Ponziadibio, Dracus Duplice, Ilya, Raleigh-Rosus Jr.

There were a lot of fun fights. Did anyone else, did anyone else on the card stand out to you? Because I do want to close on on a positive note and anyone else that we want to shout out who had a good performance on Saturday night. I'll tell you who stuck out to me the most. And you just mentioned it was Elliot Teporia. I mean, he put a beating on Bryce.

Mitchell and really surprised me. I picked Bryce to win that fight. That was one of the two fights that I picked wrong. And Bryce just never got a single thing off on him, really, anything significant. And Ilya just looked amazing. I thought it was great composure. And then the fact that he finished it with a headarm triangle on Bryce Mitchell was just, you know, mad props that I got, man.

What a great performance he had. And, you know, that'd be a great fight for Patty next. right? They've been barking back and forth at each other. So I would love to see that. I don't think he, I think you should tear up the contract of this and the contract for you, I don't think that he's going to take.

I wouldn't not suggest Patty take it. But, you know, if he wants to talk, you know, wants to talk about that shit to Ilya, then hey, let's let him find it out. Fighting solves everything. Yeah, I'm with you. I'll hear of you. I'll hear of mine as well. I'd like to.

I do want to give a shout to San Diego Ponsidio. Incredible comeback, man. He was down two rounds. Come back and knock out Alex Marono. And credit to Alex Marono, too. He took that fight on six days notice and put on a performance like that, nearly one. But Ilya's a poria, man, because Bryce Mitchell's good. Bryce Mitchell may be a bit of a lunatic in his whole flat earth lunacy, but he is a damn good fighter.

And he got, I mean, it was one-way traffic from start to finish that fight. Ilya beat him up on the feet. And what Bryce Mitchell is known for is this grappling, he got out grappled too. I mean, that was like one of those performances where afterwards I'm like, damn. Like I did not like I picked, see, I was the opposite. I picked I picked Ilya to win, but I was like, I don't know. This might not be a good pick there. I'm kind of not feeling good about that pick.

And Ilya went out there. What we thought, both of us probably thought was this is a stylistic matchup where Bryce takes him down, gets on top. He's probably going to beat him. He's probably going to outgrapble to shut up. Ilya keeps on the feet. We know Ilya probably probably has a better stand-up. And what we were probably, most of us, at least me, was basing it off of, was Bryce's last

fight with Edson Barbosa. We know how good Edson-Barboza is. And Bryce was able to do it to him. So I thought, well, he can probably do it to Ilya and Ilya proved us all wrong. He is a very high-level guy, and he's got a bright future ahead of. Yeah, it was an incredible performance. Well, we're going to have a lot more to talk about. Final UFC card of the year comes up.

next week. Of course, we're going to do a year-end show before it's all sudden done. We pick our favorite things from 2022. But obviously, we got Jared Gordon, or, excuse me, Jared Gordon, Jared Cannon here and Sean Strickland fighting this weekend. So we'll do a little bit of follow-out from that next week. I'm sure we'll have more to talk about, depending on what all happens this week. So make sure you tune in for that. As always, Matt, where can people find you? Where can be able to check out what you're doing, all the things you got going on?

Instagram. I am the immortal Twitter. at I Am the Immortal. Same thing on both. You got Facebook, the Immortal Matt Brown. Check out the immortal coffee.com. I'm currently working right now. Well, I got the two, three now, dynamic striking and instructional. I'm currently working on my own video library to put up my own instructional. That's a bigger job than what I expected to be, but it's a good, it's a fun job. And I've got tons of videos on there for everything in the May and I'm going to have courses, just a massive library. So, that would probably be, I'm guessing June, July next year, hopefully sooner, but this is a pretty big job. Yeah, it is. I understand. Well, check out all that. Next time you need to get amped up for the show, drink some immortal coffee. It'll definitely put some freaking adrenaline in your veins.

Oh, yeah. And listen to the podcast that way. Always want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes into the show. We'll be back next week with more Fighter versus Ryder. We'll have more to talk about. I got all fired up this week. So I don't know if I'll maybe calm down next week. I guess I can't have the immortal coffee before this broadcast,

because I was already fired up enough for this one. Thank you, as always, everyone tuning in. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. See you then.