MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to PFL Buying Bellator MMA; Patchy Mix Reveals Who He Wants Next and His Future Under the PFL Banner

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin reacting to the news that the PFL has purchased Bellator MMA as well as everything that unfolded at UFC Vegas 82 and what’s coming up at UFC Austin. Of course, the biggest news of the day came with the PFL acquiring Bellator MMA with plans to promote a champion versus champion card in 2024. The PFL gets a massively improved roster with all of the fighters from Bellator MMA but does this actually make them a legitimate threat to the UFC? PFL founder Donn Davis believes UFC CEO Dana White is “worried” but is that actually true? Does the UFC even see the PFL as a true competitor? Plus we’ll discuss Brendan Allen’s big win over Paul Craig and the new look UFC Fight Night cards in the UFC APEX that aren’t exactly the most stacked events in the world. Plus new Bellator bantamweight champion Patchy Mix joins the show for his first interview since defeating Sergio Pettis to claim the title this past Friday at Bellator 301. Mix reveals who he wants next in his first title defense while also detailing his future plans now that the PFL has purchased Bellator. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer!  Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm your host, as always,

Damon Martin. I am joined, as always, by UFC legend. Matt, it's Thanksgiving week. Big plans for the holiday? you know me man i'm not big turkey guy we're getting steak again this year fuck the damn turkey bro every year i make a call for it can we just start a revolution let's get rid of the damn turkey let's get rid of all the mashed potatoes you can eat any day of the week

green beans who wants green beans who even wants cranberry like if it was that good why is it not down at the store right now like why can't you just go buy it at the store if it's so good that's true that's true I do like stuffing though stuffing's good you gotta admit stuffing's good

who stuffing happens to be on the shelves 365 days a year I would take a steak over turkey any day I'll say the same thing I don't mind turkey but I would definitely take steak over turkey the day of the week yeah I don't I don't really have like big plans or anything working, we got home and then working the PFL championship the next day.

So, you know, pretty much status quo around here. Not really big celebration around these parts. Yeah, that's got to suck for the fighters, right? Like cutting weight on Thanksgiving. Yeah, dude, that's rough. Well, I mentioned the PFL finals on Friday, so obviously let's just get into it. The big news of the day, PFL has officially purchased Bellator MM. tour MMA, the two, the two secondary biggest M&A organizations have now combined into one.

They basically said that Bellator is going to continue running as its own operation for eight events next year. I feel like there's, I don't know the true behind the scene story. I feel like there's got to be like some sort of contractual thing in there where they had to continue doing events. But whatever, they're doing events. But they're going to do PFL versus Bellator champions in early 2024, which should be fun. get, you know, obviously a much bigger roster of fighters. Bellator, should be, PFL doesn't even have a bantamweight or middleweight division, which I would argue are two of the better divisions in Bellator.

But yeah, so big shift here, Matt. Thoughts on PFL buying Bellator. I think it's cool, man. I think it's good for the sport. I think, you know, it's just cool that, you know, they're making moves, man. They're coming up and doing good things. Both of them seem like good organizations. I don't know if I just, you know, it's just hard to believe they're ever going to compete with the UFC.

So it's great to have something else out there that's still a good quality product. And there's something that's going to give the fans, you know, something else to watch. Right. Like, you know, there's, I was trying to think of a comparison of sports, but there really isn't one. Yeah. Like if NFL is NFL, NFL, MLB's MLB, there's nothing else. I mean, I guess with racing, you got like F1 and NASCAR. No one in America seems to like F1.

So you said something there, and I was going to ask about this anyways, but let's just get into it because everyone's going to be like, oh, man, you're going right on a negative spin. But I've got to bring this up. PFL and Bellator joining together, to me, makes them the clear cut number two in the sport, right? Like, they are. Don Davis, the PFL owner, or founder, I should say,

Who I like. I like Don, I've interviewed him before, type, message him back and forth on Twitter. Have no problem with Don. One of the things he said today, he did Ariel Hwani's show, and he said something to the effect of, you know, we are now the co-leader.

You know, basically it's the UFC and it's PFL. And, you know, Dana White doesn't worry about anything, but now you can tell he's worried about PFL. And I'm like, Don, I appreciate what you're doing. And I think what you guys are doing, is awesome, keep doing it, but don't poke the bear. Like, Dana's not worried about you.

That's not an offense. Dana doesn't give a single solitary shit about what the PFL is doing. He didn't fear the PFL. He didn't fear Belator. He didn't fear Strike Force. He didn't fear W.C. He didn't fear any of them. All you're doing

is poking the bear, because then you're going to get Dana to react, and he's going to eviscerate you. So let's just, like, not... Don't go down that road don because we know how that game ends you're probably going to lose yeah well that's it he's trying to get dan it to react i'm guessing to get clicks or views or more eyes on it and dana probably won't even react like it doesn't it is completely irrelevant right like there's if i go to the walmart and you know someone recognizes me and you know their their brother asked who i am or

their sister, ask who I am or something. They say, oh, he's an ultimate fighter, right? They don't say he's an MMA fighter. He's an ultimate fighter. You know, it's like a Kleenex or a Q-TEP, right? Like, that's just what it is. UFC owns the sport. Yeah, absolutely.

Listen, there's a place. I mean, I'm glad that PFL succeeds, and I hope they find nothing but success, but you're not going to be, you're not the co-leader. You're not like, I don't know, I've rarely talked to anyone outside of the MMA bubble, like the, you know, the people who are into the sport, the bubble. Like, when I have friends who are not into the sport reach out to me, it's usually because they're like, oh, Connor McGregor or Rhonda Rousey or Anderson Silver, Adasanya, or, you know, big fights like that in Ghana, whatever it was the time, John Jones, whatever. I have never, and this is, I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying, like, I've never had any casual friend reach out and be like, man, did you see that PFL card on Friday?

Right. It's, I mean, and that's not a knockout. The UFC is the biggest. They're always going to be the biggest. They're a juggernauts. I just don't, like, it's such a, it's such a, here's the thing, you're right. You're saying it to get attention. I get it.

Like, they're saying it to get attention to get a reaction. I understand that. But what you're forcing me to do by doing that is telling you the honest truth, which is, is you're not a threat to the UFC. They don't care. Dana White does not care that you just bought Belator. He does not give a single solitary shit that you teamed up with Belator. Like, I don't know why you make me do this, PFL.

Like, I like you. Stop making me just point out the facts, which is you're not, you're not the co-leader. You're not in the same stratosphere as the UFC. Do you want me to really pumble him down to the ground here, Matt? You want me to really tell the honest truth? There's one. one makes martial arts promotion on earth one that turns a profit do you want to know which one that is the ufc then they turn a large profit yeah yeah yeah and it's not co-leader it's like it's number one

and a distant second place right that's what it is ufc is synonymous with cage fighting period yeah i just like i just and i listen you know dana probably even better than i do but i've own Dana for a lot of years, interviewed Dana many, many times. Dana doesn't see this as a threat. He just doesn't. He doesn't care. Well, Dan is also the president and only owns what 10% share now, right? Yeah, something like that.

Yes. Why would he care? Yeah, but even if he didn't, even if he owned 100% of it, he wouldn't care. Like, what is it like? Right. Dana, if there's a threat to Dana's business, it's the antitrust lawsuit. That's a threat to the business. the PFL buying Bellator is not a blip on his radar.

Like, it's not like, it's not like they raided the UFC's closet and signed away Adasanya Jones. And like, you know, they rated the, they rated the best fighters in the world. That's not happening here.

When you talk about the anti-trust suit, I don't understand it as well as most people probably, or you probably do. But from what I understand, the real threat, like the billions of dollars is obviously a threat. Like, it's billions of dollars.

that sucks. But from what I understand it could potentially change contracts in the future, have short contracts. It would be more like a boxing model is what I'm guessing. And that would be, like you said, that would be a real threat to the UFC at that point. Well, that's also a threat to the PFL for that matter. I mean, that's like, you know, that would pretty much, you know.

I mean, yeah, whoever brings in the money, right? That's who's going to win that. Whoever brings most money right now, TK.O. UFC Endeavor, all them, they got the most money. So even that wouldn't be a gigantic threat for the biggest fights. It's just a matter of, you know, who's going to bring in some more money. Yeah, but I mean, that is something that could cause a ripple in the U.S. business.

The PFL combining with Bellator does not. Because the PFL didn't chip away at the UFC's bottom. I mean, I've said this on our podcast, I've said on other podcasts, I've said it, articles. The UFC is such a machine now that Conn McGregor hasn't fought since 2021 and then 2022 and 2023 are going to be two of the most profitable revenue earning years in UFC history. They're about to do a new broadcast deal next year, whether it's ESPN or whoever else ends up getting the rights. That's going to be a monumentally huge deal. They just signed $100 million with Bud Light. I mean,

I just, I'm not, like, you make me say this, PFL. Like, when you say, like, we're the co-leader and Dana White's worried, Dana White's not worried. The UFC is, Ari Emanuel probably doesn't even know what PFL stands for. Like, if you ask what is PFL stand for, he'd be like, I don't know, like, you know, I have no clue what it stands for. Like, professional fishing league, I have no idea. Like, he doesn't, I just hate when you, like, why? Like, there's nothing wrong with being a clear cut number two. in this?

The fact that you can survive in an industry that is littered with the bones of other organizations that have tried and failed at this, the fact that you've been around for however long you've been around and you're now buying, you're in the position to buy other organizations, dude, applaud that. That's awesome. Like, I stand up and applaud that. But don't say you're going toe to toe with the UFC because you're not. You are absolutely not.

And you're not the co-leader. You're not in a race for number one. It's just it bothers me so much. I just don't understand why. Why is that the route you decide to take? Like take any other route but that one. Yeah, well, he's trying. You got to give him that.

So, yeah, that's a rough situation for him, man. But hopefully it brings the sport up, man. That's all we care about, right? We're all old school MMA fans. We love seeing different promotions, have great fighters. Like, I remember Pride back in the day. I used to love Pride. man that was so much fun um so getting a little you know at least for us hardcore guys you know

they're never going to be the co-leader they're not you know they're distant number two that's what it is but having you know some some different matchups some guys that um you know maybe a little bit different um what rule set not really rule set but the format yeah different format different opportunities you know and and also just to be honest like the pfl bolsters their roster because when you look at the pfl's roster like they're not the deepest roster in the world in terms of like when you think it like again i like the pfl product i like what they do but when you look at their roster top to bottom they don't have a lot of like known quantities like Kayla harrison is well known i think lorissa pacheco's a monster she's obviously very very good but when you kind of go down the list of all

their heavyweight, light heavyweight, middle weight, like all their champions, like, there's not a lot of names that pop out to you and say, like, man, they are the best in the world. Like, they're, you know what I mean? Like, I love Olivier Aubin-Mercie. Like, what he's been doing, he goes through the title on Friday. I think his re-emergence in the, in the PFL is amazing. I love it. But people still remember him as the guy who lost three in a row leaving the UFC.

Like, you know what I mean? Now, Bellator is in a different situation. I personally, I personally think Patchy Mix is. the best band to weight in the sport. And actually, just to mention this, I forgot to mention the top. I'm going to play an interview I did with Patchy Mix a little later on after we get done. Patchy Mix, I believe he's the best band to wait in the sport. Beat Sergio Pettus on Friday.

I think he's the best band to weight in the sport. No knock to Sean O'Malley or any of the guys in the UFC. I think Patchy Mix is the best band to wait in the sport. Johnny Eblen, you could argue, could be the best middleweight in the sport, compared to, you know, comparatively to Sean Strickland. You look at Aaron Pico. that guy's not even a champion he's a freaking monster he's like you know the third guy in the belator featherweight division he's a freaking monster you look at uh vedeem nimcoff that guy is a monster like his last loss came to yuri prohashka like you know 10 years ago and outside that he's been wrecking shop

so that's what pfl benefits here is they actually get a really good roster like because bellator's roster right now is the best it's ever been that's huge for them like that's a big big benefit um that's what we should be talking about, Matt. Like, that's where they should be praised and celebrating right now, not that they're suddenly challenging the UFC. Yeah, it's funny, man. I've seen a couple people say that Johnny Ebblin

is the best middleweight in the world. And, man, it tells me, I think Sean Strickland might be the most underrated middleweight in the world. Like this guy, man, like, I look at so many guys that he matches up against it. I'm like, yeah, he'd probably lose. Like, I think everybody would beat Sean Strickland.

but Sean Strickland beats everybody and it is pretty fucking amazing how he does it. He just doesn't do it in style at all. He does it, you know, just looking like he has so many weaknesses like something's going to fall apart, something's going to miss

and he just finds a way to get it done and talks the craziest shit on the way doing it. I'll be the first to admit that I am, I have discounted Sean Strickland a little bit and this isn't going back to me absolutely getting the picker. But when you look at, because when you look at his record,

Adasanya is the one really great win on his record. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he doesn't have, like, his resume is not littered with, like, top 10 guys. You know what I mean? Like, that's not so, it's hard not to underestimate him a little bit when you think about, like, the biggest memory we have before he beat Adasanya was him getting laid out by Alex Pereira. Like, that was what we all remember. So, you know, it's not hard to see.

Yeah, you're right. And if it was Adasania on top, I wouldn't say Johnny Eblen's got a case. I say Johnny Evelin's got a case because Sean Strickland is currently the champion. I don't know. Maybe he won't even be champion after January. I don't know. Maybe Drickis takes him out.

I don't know. But yeah, you're right. He is kind of like the most underestimated champ. But I think that's the case where like it's warranted, right? Like it's not like Sean Strickland just like beat a murderer's row of people. He beat Otisanya and it was incredibly impressive. But like that's by far like the biggest win on his resume. And talk about distance.

second. It's a distant second to the next biggest win on his resume. You know what was impressive is that he beat Brendan Allen because Brendan Allen is a fucking killer and last weekend put a stamp on that shit because that dude looked the way that he beat

Paul Craig was absolutely mind-blowing. He did man. He mauled him. I mean he absolutely mauled him and he got caught in that calf slicer for a minute but that really didn't put him in any like serious danger and outside of that man he absolutely put it on put it on Paul Craig, man.

Like that, that to me is like the kind of performance I wanted out of Gileson Almeida when he fought Derek Lewis, like the way he just took him down. Like that's what I wanted out of him. What Brandon Allen did is exactly that. Like he went out there, took him down and just beat on him and then submitted him. Like it was super impressive. And to the guy who pulls guard,

who wants to be taken down, who has one of the best guards in MMA. And it's just ridiculous problems on the ground. all through and through. And Brendan Allen just did everything right from beginning to end, made all the right moves, made all the right calls, had the right feels, and just, like you said, just dominated them. It was incredible.

And I was a guy, and I'll be the first, I'm not Sandra Pat, myself on the back map, because when he first got signed, I think he came over from LFA, I remember watching him in LFA and I was like, this guy's going to be like a contender one day. And he came in and he had a couple rough fights. He had a couple, you know, a couple losses in there, took a short notice fight against Chris Curtis, which, you know, it is what it is.

He took it. He accepted it, but probably not his best move to take a fight like that on whatever it was, like six days notice and lose, you know, things like that. But since then, he's looked incredible, man. Six wins in a row, five by submission. When he tapped out Andre Munez, I was like, damn, like this dude is like super legit. And it's good, too, because the middleweight division needs some new blood. And he's 28 years old. Like, he's still pretty young.

And getting better all the time, too. getting better every time he goes out there. And that's the biggest thing I noticed when he fought Paul Craig. At first I thought that his fight IQ must be terrible because, you know, he was taking him down and like, that's where you don't, like, that's the worst game plan against Paul Craig is what you would think. But he just did everything right the whole time.

And I was like, dude, he's got a actually has a good fight IQ. Like he fought this very smartly. And then when he got on the ground, get just, you know, made every right decision from beginning to end. Yeah. And I know he talked about, you know, getting a number one contenders fight. I mentioned on Saturday, I said, you know, maybe Jared Canoneer when he comes back from injury, maybe Marvin Vittor. But you know what I'd like to see.

And I know it probably won't happen because they're going to end up, like, sitting them out and getting a title shot, which, you know, it is what it is. But, man, I'd like to see Brendan Allen and Hamzot. I think that would be a really fun fight. Yeah, I think that'd be a good fight too. But Marvin Vittoria was the one that first crossed my mind when I see that men, that that would be a good fight. good matchup right there, I think. Because, where's Vittori Ben, by the way? He's been out for a little while.

He had that loss to Whitaker and he had that loss to Canaanere. But he had that win against Roman DeLeads in the middle of that. I think he's down to training. I think he's down at the training at American Top Team now, down in Florida, I think, is where he's training now. He used to train out in California, obviously, with Raphael Cordero. But I think he's down in Florida now, an American Top Team. No, so switch teams and try to revitalize everything, get back.

I think the middle-way division, I think, is like always underrated. Like, I feel like there's just so many good guys that not too many kind of seep through the cracks and stand out versus they're just not being a deep division. I think middle-de-prof, well, I don't say it's a problem. I think part of the reason we do that in middle-way is because we've continuously had dominant champions. like Anderson Silva ruled over there for like a decade and then Israel Adasanya was like the guy for the longest time you know what I mean? So it's like it's like no one could quite get there to get name

to get a name because they couldn't beat the champion because they had a long-range champion. But I said it for the longest time at Welterway when George was champion. I was like, yeah, George St. Pierre was an absolutely dominant champion. But the Welterweight division was incredibly deep. He just happened to be a little bit better than everybody else. But it didn't mean the Walterweight division was a deep. it's just George was on top.

I think that's kind of what middleweight's dealt with lately because you got Andrew, you went basically from Anderson more or less, right? And I mean, obviously, you know, Wyman had the title, Rockhold had the title, Bisping, but like, once it got to Adasania, that's basically been the guy. And even now, like, Sean Strickland's the champion.

We still talk about this for Adasania because we're still kind of shocked that Sean Strickland beat him. But that's kind of what the middleweight divisions dealt with. It's like we just, you know, there's not been a real break between long-reigning champions. yeah no i hope ida sania comes back man i hope that he gets his shit together whatever it is he needs hope he takes his break does whatever i hope he comes back i love watching idasanya

oh i hope he gets i hope he yeah i mean absolutely and again he deserves the break he deserves time off he's uh you know got a little bit that alexander vulcanowski thing where he has a hard time just taking a break and sitting down arresting but it seems like he's doing that right now and good for him he's earned it and uh yeah i mean i'm totally fine with him coming back and you know fighting basically whoever he wants i i kind of agree with what you said when we talked right after the fight and said, you know, if he wants to come back for the fight for the title, let him do it. I'm not real on board with him going to light heavyweight and fighting for that.

Even though Pereira is the champion, I think it would be a little bit of a stretch to let him go back up to 205 without at least getting a win on his record first. But I have no problem if he comes back and just basically fights the winner in middleway. Maybe Dracus takes out Sean Strickland and he fights Dracus. It's still a huge fight. You know what I mean? And that's still a massive, massive one. Obviously, Hamzat's out there as well.

And, you know, Hamzot and Adasana would still be a massive, massive fight. So, yeah, there's a couple of things out there for him. And I have no problem with whatever he got wants to kind of pick and choose when he comes back. Yeah, I'm with you on that. He doesn't need to go up to 205. We already seen, you know, he fought Jan 205. And Jan's not the best 205er. He's a great 205er.

And, you know, he's always going to be up there in top five or whatever, I think. But, you know, he's not the best. and Pereira is the only fight there for him really, I think. Yeah, I mean, Pereira needs to fight Jamal Hill. That's the one that needs to happen. Yeah, yeah. I'm a big believer in Jamal Hill. I think he's a monster man.

I mean, watching what he did to go over to Chera, I don't doubt for a second that he could stand in trade with Alex Prayer and win that fight. Like, I don't doubt that for a second. That dude hits like a truck. He's a big light heavyweight, you know what I mean? And not that Alex is small, but he's a big, like, heavyweight, dude, that's a, that's a banger. That's the fight that needs to happen.

Dude, I'd love to see that fight. Jamal Hill, man, he cracks me up. I met him a couple of times. This dude's got the biggest belly I've ever seen. Like, he's such an athlete, but like everything, like when he's in the off season, so to speak, or not train him for a fight, like everything goes to his belly.

Like his legs, his arms, nothing else gets big, just his belly, I think. Didn't you do a seminar at his gym not that long ago? Yeah, yeah, I got to hit those guys up. Maybe go back to another one. He wasn't there at the time, though. Yeah, but that's his gym. That's what he trains in Michigan.

Yeah, yeah. Really cool guys, man. Great group up there. Black Lion is what it's called. Yeah, and I think that's where he started as a teenager. And he stayed with him the whole time. So I love that, man. I respect this shit out of that.

Yeah, he's a monster, man. Like, I think people kind of forget, like, you know, we are all guilty of being kind of prisoner of the moment in this sport. And you kind of forget, like, what he did to Glover at the time. But my God, like, I did not see him doing that to Glover to share. And he just, I mean, he took years off Glover's life in that fight. And, you know, it's heartbreaking that he had the torn Achilles. But, dude, him in prayer is a hell of a matchup. Like, I have a hard time believing that fight sees, like, the third round.

Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. That's exactly, yeah. You know, it's tough, though, because like, Jamal's so explosive and, and they say, it hits like a truck. But, man, Pereira just got some tricks, bro. Like, this dude just got every trick in the bag, man. He's seen it all, you know. But somebody's going down in that fight.

That's for sure. We say that. We throw that around a lot. That's one of those fights that, you know, the betting odds on the, not going to decision, got to be astronomical. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let me backtrack and ask you a question.

I wanted to ask you about this anyways. We're talking about the Brendan Allen card on Saturday. Did you watch the whole card? Did you watch just the main event? What did you watch of that card? I was kind of in and out, actually. Watch a little bit here and there. We were hitting the sauna, you know,

Coleman over here, making noise, working out, you know. Yeah, good shout out to our boy, Coleman, Mark Coleman. He had surgery today. Hope he's doing well. So here's my question, Matt. I like, by the way, just to be clear, I really liked Brendan Allen going out there beating Paul Craig. It was impressive.

But I said this on last week when I put out the main card on Twitter, and I said, well, this card's kind of rough. Like, it was not the strongest main card in terms of like name value or anything. And like, that's kind of what it's become with these UFC Apex cards. Then you look at the card come up in Austin in two weeks. Dude, that card is stacked. I mean, B'Neill Darius. Armis Sarukian, Dan Hooker, Bobby Green.

Like, it is incredibly stacked. And I started thinking, yeah, Gasolam's on that card and Sean Brady. Like, it's a really good card. And I'm thinking to myself, does the UFC have a bit of a fight night problem? Because now that they're traveling on the road again, the traveling cards are getting stacked again. Like, they're stacking up these, you know, where they got to sell tickets. Like, the UFC Austin card is stacked up.

These Apex cards are getting pretty rough, man. Like, they're getting like, it's just like, there was, based on the UFC rankings, there were four ranked fighters on this entire card this past Saturday. Like, that's it, four. And two of them were the women's fighters, which were like number 12 and number 15. And even Brandon Allen and Paul Craig in the main event, I think Brandon Allen was 10 and Paul Craig was like 14. Like, I understand you got a certain number of cards you got to fill. And you got a certain contractual obligation of cards you got to provide for ESPN. some of these fight night cards are a little rough, man.

I'm being honest. Like there's been a couple this year where I'm just like, I can't believe this is a UFC fight night card in 2023. Yeah, well, I guess it's a little rough in that you don't necessarily recognize all the names, right? But, you know, they get some hell of good fights on some of those unknown cars too. If I'm Dana Wyatt or from the UFC, I always wonder why they didn't do this. like, okay, the apex, its usefulness is complete, right? Like, we're not in COVID anymore.

We're not shut down. The usefulness is complete. So if you want to make it useful still, you know, use it for, I don't want to call it a minor league, but, you know, sort of a buildup league. Like, let's give these guys tests. And maybe that's sort of what they're doing. But maybe, like, formalize that a little bit. Like, let us, you know, tell us, like, these are the up-and-comers.

these are contenders or, you know, something along those lines. Like maybe a step up from the contender series or the Ultimate Fighter, but like the next step. Yeah, I don't think, no, it does. It does. And I, you know, it's just like, it's gotten to the point now where it's like when the UFC goes back to the UFC Apex, I just assume I know what the card's going to be. Like, I know it's not going to be filled with bangers.

Now, to be fair, they are going to the UFC Apex in January, and they're going to bring Magamette Ankelyev and Johnny Walker. Now, that's a good fight. That's a quality fight. I really look forward to that one. But by and large, a lot of these cards have been pretty rough, man. Like, they, like, the undercards have been, like, and it's, I agree with you in principle about, like, the fights can still be fun, right?

They are, they can be. But we got to be honest, Matt, like, even, like, as fun as the fights can be sometimes, it's harder to get excited about them if you don't know who they are. Right? Like, I can, I can, like, I see highlights from LFA and Cage Warriors and some of these European promotions. And they put out a highlight and I see a really cool knockout, flying knees and head kicks and spinning hill kicks. I'm like, oh, that's really cool. That's what I, that's a 30-second clip.

I'm cool with that. Like, you know what I mean? It's a cool knockout, right? But it means more when it's, you know, it's a little bit. it's somebody you know or somebody with value, a top 15, top 20 fighter, or a name. Like, again, Jim Miller, not currently ranked in the top 15, but Jim Miller is a quantifiable person. We know him.

He's an, he's an OG legend, right? Clay Guida, guys like that, like guys who may not have the ranking, but we know them. A lot of these cards are getting filled up by contender series fighters. And, like, there was a time years ago, Matt, where I could literally, I could tell you at least one thing about every single fighter on the UFC roster. I may not be able to tell you their whole life story, but I at least say, oh, yeah, they lost their last one, or, oh, they're coming in off of a big win, or they're doing the... Those days are long gone. Like, I can't tell you who half the people are anymore.

And that's why, like, I agree they can still have these bangor-grade fights from time to time. But the problem is, is it just that the gravity of it feels less because you don't have any investment. in the people. Like you don't have any knowledge or you don't know who these people are. And so, man, great knockout. Who was he? Like, that's kind of the reaction you get sometimes.

Yeah, because realistically, there is an FMMA on now that you can go see great fights. Like, again, like PFL Bellator, like we were talking about earlier, or UAE warriors, Cage Warriors, you know, there's LFA. There's fights all the time.

So if you want to just go see fights, It's like, I mean, you can go down here in Columbus. They have them every month or two, you know, like it's easy to just find fights. So one of the things you have to see has always brought is that name value. Like we know who's on the card. Like you said, you can tell something about the people every time. And now it feels a little bit more watered down, doesn't it? Right?

It's a little bit more watered down. But like I said, that's why I think that it'd be nice if they were. would just formally call it. Like, this is, you know, the buildup series or, you know, whatever you end up wanting to call it. But let people know, like, this isn't the, you know, this is the UFC, but this isn't the Super Bowl here. This is a regular season game.

Yeah. And what they've done, and I get it, what they've done is they've started stacking the pay-per-views and they started stacking the cards that are actually getting audiences. And then kind of the leftovers go to the apex cards. I get it. It's not a bad formula. I understand what they're doing.

Like I said, when you look at the UFC Austin card, it's stacked. I mean, it is incredibly stacked for a fight night card. And then UFC 296, holy crap. Like, you got Colby Covington, Leon Edwards. You got Brandon Moreno and, excuse me, got Brandon Roy Vall, and Alessandra Pantosha. You got Ian Gary and Vicentee Luc, a wonder boy against Shavkat Rakhanov, Josh Emmett against Giga Chikaze. I mean, that card is loaded, loaded from top to bottom, you know what I mean?

And like I said, the UFC Austin card's the same way. But you can kind of tell, like, the cards that aren't that, like, the card that we got at the apex coming up on December 9th is going to be Chris Gutierrez against Song Yodong. Now, that's not a bad fight. That's a hell of a fight. Hell of a fight. But would you really see that as a main event fight? That seems like maybe a good co-main on a fight night. you know what I mean like three or four years ago like before the pandemic that would have been like a good co-main event on a fight night card but uh like we remember right before the pandemic we were getting the main event here in Columbus Ohio was going to be Francis and Ghanu against Jarsina Rosenstrike remember that's that was going to be our main event here in Columbus I remember I was this fight on

yeah before the pandemic and the one right before that was going to be Leon Edwards against Tyron Woodley that was two fight night cards in the same month and those were the headliners yeah that's interesting how it's kind of changed like that just since the pandemic you know i'd like to see him formalize it but you remember back in the day i mean this sport just keeps evolving and keep growing it's crazy because back in the day we'd wait two or three months just to see a single fight right and we'd just be digging waiting the whole time so much build up so much pump up it was such a big thing everybody get together have a big party and now it's like you know yeah Like you said, you have these fight night cards, and it's just a, it's just another day. I didn't even know that it was going on.

My son ended up telling me. So, you know, it was on like kind of during the day, right? I think it ended like five. Yeah, it was on like five o'clock in the afternoon, which was weird. Yes. So those guys are fighting it, you know, in the mid-afternoon out in Vegas. Yeah. Like I said, and I don't, I don't necessarily think it's, it's so much that the product is watered down.

think they're going by a formula now where they're stacking the pay-per-views and they're stacking the cards where they got to sell tickets and then the apex cards are just kind of like the leftovers and it's fine and i don't think there's anything wrong with it i like it actually and i like having something on esPN to watch some fights every weekend it's a ufc fight so you know it's got the name value and everything with the ufc but i said i would just like to see them formalize it like just tell us like this is the you know it's a regular season game yeah and i think that's i think that's kind of where we have to adjust our expectations these days is that um i think we all kind of got in tune for a while there for several years where it's like we

expected at least one big fight on every card right like at one really meaningful fight on every card. Now, not every card was stacked, but every card would have at least one, usually pretty meaningful fight, number one contender fight, top five guys, big name at the top, that kind of thing, even on a fight night card. And it just seems like since the pandemic, with the apex there now, it's like we have the Super Bowl cards, which are the pay-per-views typically. And, you know, you do get a stinker here or there every now and again, just because the way injuries happen and things like that. And then you get the cards. in live arenas, like the one in Austin, when they go to England, things like that.

And then the apex is kind of like the best of the rest. And I know it sounds insulting to the guys to fight at the apex. It's not. It's just saying like they're not putting as much emphasis on those. I just think that's the formula we got now. And I wish I agree with you. Like just, you know, UFC light. I don't know, whatever you want to call it.

Like just, you know, because it is. It's like it's still ingrained in me mad that when the UFC's on, it's a big deal. Right. Like, every time the U.S. It feels like a big deal. But that's not necessarily the case right now. Like, next weekend is a big deal. When Baneer-Dar Ush fights Armusarouki in the main event, that's a big deal.

When Leon Edwards fights Colby Covington, that's a big deal. This last card, I liked Brendan Allen and Paul Craig. But when you look at the rest of the card, you know, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like, you know, like, oh, man, I can't wait to see like this and that. Like those are the cards used to see like Edson Barbosa on and and, you know, guys who were like kind of on that cusp of getting to be a big thing but not quite there yet, that kind of thing. And like those days now, Edson Barbosa's headlining cards with Sadiq Yousef. That would not have been a main event five years ago. Like, it's not a bad fight. It's a great fight.

But it's just not typically, it would have been like co-main or the third fight on a fight night card. I guess I guess all I'm saying is that's the world we live in now. We have to readjust our expectations for what the UFC cards are going to be. I just, I still have it in my head that every. time there's a UFC car, it's a big deal. And it's not always going to be a big deal, I guess. Yeah, yeah, kind of sucks, but it's kind of cool too, right? Remember back in the day, we used to, I remember on the underground forum and shit, we'd always be saying, you know, wait, wait till we get on, you know, the big TV network or whatever, you know, we were just begging for it, itching

for it, knowing it was going to come one day. And now we're here. And so I try not to complain about it, right? We've got to remember that's what we wanted all this time. That's true. That's It is. I mean, listen, it is what it is. I mean, I'm not, certainly not complaining. It just, I kind of long for those days of, like, really meaningful fights. Like, I'm super jazzed about the Austin card. Like, I'm super jazz for EFC 295.

It's just, there's a couple fillers in between there that aren't really getting me super excited. If that makes sense, like, I'm like, eh, you know, it's a fight card. Like, this past weekend, Bellator had the better card. Like, Bellator had the better card with Patchy Mix and Sergio Pettis. Did you watch the Bellator card on Friday? I did not Dude it was crazy Jason Jackson

knocked out Yaroslav Amoslav to become well to wage shamble No one saw that coming Amoslav looking a monster And Jason Jackson knocked him out And Apache Mix choked out Sergio Pedes inside two rounds Which was wild

It was a good card Which is, you know Now it looks like it's gonna be the final card Of Bellator under that regime Yeah so I mean Like I said I guess every card's not gonna be a banger But to their credit

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18665-3-1-2-600 or visit Comex Ontario.ca. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Yeah, exactly. So the next card is going to be Austin, two weeks, right? Yeah.

All right. There's some great, great fights on there. I can't wait to break all those down, man. I'm going to have to watch some film. Because those are just some banger, banger fights, man. Bobby Green, Dan Hooker, I think that's going to be a war of wars, man. Like, those guys are nuts. They got five rounds, too.

They did it five rounds for the co-main event, which is kind of fun. So I don't know if it'll go five rounds, but it's interesting that they got five rounds. Yeah, that's very cool, man. Is this Bobby Green's first five-round fight? No, he was scheduled for the fight. Well, he was scheduled for five rounds with Islam, and then he lost, and then he got scheduled for five rounds against Grant Dawson, and he knocked him out in the first round. So he was scheduled for five rounds. He just hasn't had to go it.

But he's been a couple of main events. Okay. Because I'm pretty confident that the hooker can do all five and grind it out. Bobby Green's got that style where you wonder how he's going to handle those last couple rounds. Yeah, it's interesting because, like, dude, Bob, at any. given moment, Bobby Green could be a top five guy in the world. Like, no kidding. Like, there's, there are, when he's on and he looks good, I think he could be just about

anybody. Now, there are other times when he doesn't and, you know, he gets handled. But there, like, that's, like, that's one of those guys. Like, he may not be the best ranked guy. He may not be a champion or former champion. But, like, he's the kind of guy that you always got to watch out for. Like, he's just that dude. He's just that dude.

Yeah, well, he's got that. athleticism that he kind of relies on a lot, you know, and I think that plays a big factor in him kind of not showing some days because when you, you know, someone's got the fundamentals over you, it makes you look bad. You know, when you're out there trying to rely on your athleticism and they're either as athletic or they got, you know, the technical skills to be able to handle that athleticism, it just makes you look bad. You know, I think we've seen this many times.

I see it in the gym all the time, guys that are crazy good athletes, but they, for whatever reason, they rely on the athleticism and won't put in the technical work. And I'm not saying that Bobby Green doesn't put in technical work either. I don't really know. But, you know, when you rely on that athleticism and let those fundamentals fall behind, you're going to have some bad outings sometimes

because that athleticism doesn't cover all the gaps every time. Yeah. And then you look at Dan Hooker, who is an incredibly talented fighter, but he has a tendency to really get in wars, like really get in like, oh yeah, that kind of damage eventually does catch up to you,

and that's a dangerous game to play with a guy like Bobby Green who hits really, really hard, and Bobby is also incredibly durable. Like, that's tough because Dan Hooker, man, when Dan Hooker's on, he's another one. You feel like he's a guy who could be top five in the world, but he does get drawn into a lot of wars, and that always worries me because I always,

I always remember back, one of my favorite guys to watch back in the day I still like him to this day it's not like I've given up on him really but back in the day you remember back in the day Roy Nelson had the concrete chin like you could hit him with a freaking sledgehammer he would just stare back at you and swing

and then one day he got hit by Mark Hunt and got face planted and he was never quite the same again like he was never that that chin got cracked and it just never was quite the same again I don't know I don't I don't I don't think Dan Hooker's reached that point

because he's still gotten in some wars lately and been okay. But I'm always worried when a guy has that kind of style where we compliment him on his durability because one day man that does catch up with you. Like I always say it, dude, having a great chin is like a backhanded compliment. You know?

Because it means you get hit a lot. It means you get hit a lot. But that's true, right? Like you get hit a lot. You don't want to be the guy who's like, oh yeah, I get hit 50 times a fight. Great. Like that's not the like it is a compliment, but it's kind of a bank ain't have come in the way. Yeah, yeah, no one means it that way,

but we certainly take it that way and being the toughest guy in the room, again, when you get to the UFC level or like Dan Hooker's level, particularly, you know, every single person that you're fighting is tough. So having that on your resume or as a check on your list of attributes, you know, isn't really the one that you want, right?

There's, that's not going to, that's not a great way to go out and win fights is having that toughness and you know i've been a victim of that my damn self like i've been known as the tough guy or whatever and um you know it's not something that i necessarily ever aspired to i just coincidentally tougher than some guys but it's not something that you necessarily want to be on the top of your list there yeah i mean everyone listen you you know no one goes in there wanting to get hit you know it's good to have that as a, it's good to have that because you're in a fight, inevitably you're going to be hit.

Like, that's the reality of it. So it's good to know you can take a shot. Because you know, Matt, there's some guys who can't take a punch. Like some guys just do not react well to getting punched. They don't have that in them. And that's part of it. But it is.

It's a weird. It is like I appreciate the durability. I do. And it is, it is meant as a compliment. But it is, as I said, it's also a backhand compliment because if you can eat 400 strikes in a fight, that's awesome, but you also ate 400 strikes.

Like, that's, you know, it's like, do you really, do you really want that to be your level of success and you took 400 strikes? Like, and that's what worries me about a guy like Dan Hooker because that catches up to eventually. Like, no one, no one can live through that forever if that's like every single fight. You're walking out of there, beating up, bloodied, bruised, you know, he absorbed the second most strikes and you have seen history, things like, that's not what you want your, your record to be built on.

It's funny because I trained with Hooker. a couple times back in the day. I don't think he was even in the UFC yet, but, you know, he's actually a really technical guy. He's got a lot of really good technical skills, and he is a really, really hard hitter, but he hasn't really been known for either of those things. Maybe, you know, maybe known for his technicality a little bit,

but in the, since he got to the UFC, and I think that he just hasn't performed up to his potential, to be honest. I think he actually has a lot more potential than we've seen out of him. A little bit of that back in the day, a little bit that Mike Pyle in him, maybe a little bit. I don't think it's that. I think it might be the toughness thing. Like he wants to be tough and goes out and he might even crave that war a little bit. I mean, it's fun to get in a war.

Like if you, you know, if you ever, I guess you'd never probably have been a one. But, you know, once you feel that, like you kind of crave that a little bit. You're like, dude, that's the best feeling. And then everybody pumps you up after, you know, they're going to boost your ego, tell you how great it was. Like, I still get messages about what fighting Eric Silva from, you know, something like 10 years ago. And, you know, so it makes you feel good. And you kind of go in wanting that a little bit and not just wanting it,

but knowing that you can go through it, like not being afraid of it. Or maybe not even not being afraid of it, but not. Not like veering away from it. You know, when you could just go out there and technically beat the guy, you're like, fuck that. I'm going to bite down my mouthpiece and let's go. Yeah, we always talk about that. Like, he just bites down his mouthpiece and goes. But, like, it's a real thing.

Like, that actually happens. Like, you're just like, let's fucking go. Like, let's just throw down and see who falls down first. I think you're probably right with Hooker. I think that's probably exactly it. Like, he's just like, why am I going to take a backward step and when I can step forward to just throw down. And, you know, if he took a bet, he's a long, rangy guy.

Maybe he took a step back. He could, like, throw a counter and just land a knockout. But he's like, fuck that. I'm going to stand the pocket and just throw down. And it may be a mental thing, too. I don't know. I mean, you kind of have to know the fighter a little bit, but there may be a little bit of getting overly fired up or overly intense.

You know, when the lights come on, maybe just begging for that war a little bit. you know it could be a lot of different things rather than you know maybe just if he just goes in relaxes a little more and allows the fight to play out rather than trying to force things or you know it could be anxiety it could be a lot of different things yeah when you when you've had your moments of going to war is that something that you always did is it something you did early in your career late in your career like is it something you just that's just always better it just depends on the fight. Well, I'm probably a little bit different than most of these guys. Because I didn't start training until I was 24 years old, you know, like I was way older. And I came from, you know,

more of a street fighting background, so to speak. And these kind of guys like me that come into my gym now that were like I was back then, those aren't they, I'm not even interested in those guys, you know. But I didn't come from like a wrestling background. I didn't really know fighting. I kind of thought that I did, but I studied the shit out of it to learn it. And so for me, that was sort of my best strategy was, you know, let's go in and fucking swing for the fences and be tough as you can. Um, fortunately it worked out for me a lot of times. But, you know, I think my case is probably different than a lot of other people's because I just simply didn't have the technical skills starting out. But now you do. And like it's like I see the strategy when you go in there and

fight and like the game plan and the way you dismantle people when you go in there like the way you fought court McGee um i saw what you were doing and it's like that's that's the technical prowess you've adapted over the years where you went in there just dismantled him and then knocked him out um you know kind of like what you do with diego lema same kind of thing like there's a certain i see this strategy there it's a much different matt like you're still just as deadly but it's a much different matt brown now than it was 10 12 years ago 100% and that's what i've always craved to get unfortunately, I don't know if you say unfortunately, but you like I'm 42 now, right?

I'm almost 43. And, you know, if I had this same brain, I think every fight I'd probably say this. Like if I had the same mind back then as I do now, you know, things would have been a little bit different. But, you know, I always stepped. I always fought above my own level and competition. And I was just shot for the stars, went for everything I could. And I always wanted to challenge myself to the fullest.

So, you know, I don't regret anything that I ever did. But I also had to, I also wanted to do this for a long time. And I've been a student of martial arts and fell in love with the martial arts. And, you know, really studied it and embraced it too. You know, again, unlike a lot of these other guys that came up in, whether it's wrestling or kickboxing, boxing or whatever, I never even had the opportunity to do that. So, you know, the second that I did, I just been a sponge ever since. and still a sponge, but trying to give a lot of that knowledge back, too. Yeah.

Well, I also know, like, I think something is a little different. Like, when you say you're not, you're not the typical 42-year-old fighter, though. Like, you haven't, because you didn't put wear and tear on your body at 20. Like, you didn't, you weren't out there. Like, Daniel Cormier, well, Daniel Cormier's a little different case because he was wrestling all those years, but he didn't start fighting until he's, like, 31. So when he's fighting and still being a champion at 41, like, it's not that much of a surprise because he didn't have to kill his body the same way

taking damage. Yes, wrestling, of course, that's incredibly high level, but he's not getting punched in the head. You know, it's a different feeling. So, like, you're starting at 24, you know, in a lot of ways, like, you're 42 now, but in a lot of ways you're like a 36-year-old fighter because you got a later start.

You weren't taking the damage at 18 that a lot of guys are now. Like that Raul Rosas Jr. kid who's like 19 years old and he's already been in the UFC for like a year and a half or whatever. Like, that's a different. different level because you started later. So while yes, you are 42, you're not the guy who was fighting at 19.

You're not cardio perisian who was taking fights at fucking 15 years old. Right, right. And, you know, fucking promotions. Part of that too is like how you train too. Yeah. You know, if you train very, like, if you train

intelligently, like you can last a lot longer. And I think that's just a, I think one of the fundamental things I see in successful fighters is being able to expand your time horizon and see like, okay, I don't have to win this round right now, you know, in training, right? Instead they're seeing the bigger picture, okay, you know, I'm getting better at this

today and they're projecting themselves to be better in five, ten years versus, you know, let's just win this today. And I think that's a huge lesson for younger fighters is, you know, expand your time horizon, know that this is a long journey and know, also know when, you know, the average person peaks out, which is like 30 to 35, right? It's not, you don't like, I don't like Rosas coming into the UFC at 17, 18 years old. Now, John Jones, I think, was an aberration where he came in at a pretty young age or a very young age. And, but he was a complete freak of nature too, right?

He was able to do things that other people weren't able to do. Now, he came in and dominated. you know, that's a completely different situation. If Rosas had come in with those kind of freak attributes, I think we'd be having a different opinion about them. But I don't see those freak attributes with him. So I think, and you also have to keep in mind what I did to my body from, I don't know, 15 to 24.

Yeah, I wasn't training hard and, you know, getting surgeries and, you know, breaking my arms and stuff. but the damage that I was doing to my body may have been worse than that, to be honest. Yeah. But you talk about, like you mentioned, but you also mentioned John Jones right there. Like John Jones came in at 20 or whatever he was in 21.

Let's also not forget, he was a high-level wrestler at that point. Like, he went to Iowa Community College where he's wrestling alongside guys like Kane Velasquez and Colby Covington's, like, he had a background. And so when he made the transition, yes. He also was a freak athlete and a freak, like, just talent. that's a once in a lifetime guy like that's like it's like the way we talk it's like the way we talk

and when he comes in with that wrestling i didn't mean to cut you off her but you know when he comes in with that wrestling like whether you if you come in with anything into mama like you got something to fall back on right you're trying to funnel people into that game um john obviously like learned striking and jit zitin everything but like no matter what happened like he he knew what his go-to was You take someone like me, like I didn't have a go-to. My go-to was like, I'm going to be tougher than you, and I'm going to swing harder than you. Yeah, and that's the reality. Like I said, but John Jones is the once-on-a-lifetime kind of situation.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, and I agree with you. Like, I hope Roelos finds nothing but success, but I'm not a big fan of it either. Like, I think you need a little bit more maturity, a little bit more time. You don't even really grow into your adult body until you're like 20-something years. You know what I mean? Like, that's a lot. And I'm a big believer in like, you know, being fully.

because again, when you get to the UFC, that's the highest level of the sport. Like, it's not like you're fighting in, you know, you're, you're debuting at 18 and a smaller promotion and working your way up. You're in the UFC at 18 or 19. That's a, that's a lot, like, so rarely as it happened in it, and it hasn't often worked out well for a lot of people. Like, do you remember Dan Lozon? Dan Lozon came in and, you know, and he was a young guy, and he just kind of burned out.

Like, he went high and hard, and then it just kind of, you know, flamed out a little bit and you look at his brother Joe who was you know in my opinion like one of the most one of the best dudes in this business but like he never had that resume but he all he was consistent he was consistent he came with that background he was ready for you wonder like dude I remember I was joke when I talked to teenagers who were fighting and I'm just like dude I couldn't imagine myself being in your position at 18 like I was a fuck up at 18 like I was in college I was still a fuck up like I still wasn't mentally mature enough to be fighting in the UFC You know what I mean?

Like, that's a lot. That is a lot, lot. And like I said, he's not a freak athlete. You know, I mean, he's definitely athletic and he's good and everything. But, man, you got to, like, you know, you got to go out and do grappling competitions and wrestling and striking and get good at those things. Yeah. It's not easy. You know, John Jones is a freak.

It's good different. Yeah, that's why I said, like George St. Pierre. like George St. Pierre was the one guy who came without any wrestling background and learned wrestling while he was finding. Like that doesn't happen. Like you don't wrestle at that level. George St. Pierre is a freak of nature. John Jones is a freak of nature. That's a rare occurrence.

No offense to Raoul Rosas Jr. But like that's just the reality. Like John Jones is a once-in-a-lifetime kind of guy. George St. Pierre is a once-in-a-lifetime kind of guy. We're talking about two of the greatest mixed martial artists of all time. You can't put yourself in that category right there. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So yeah, he has a long way to go. So, again, I don't really like seeing it. I'd rather see him work his way up, you know, like most guys do, you know, at least go in the smaller promotions, you know, get your feet wet. Yeah, so it's going to be a rough road for him, I think. But I hope, like I said, I wish all the best for him. I hope he proves me wrong. That's what I'm asking for. Like, prove me wrong, bro.

Like, I've been wrong before. I'll be wrong again. So here's your chance. There you go. There you go. Matt, are you going to be watching? Are you going to be watching any fights this weekend? I guess there's some boxing matches come up this weekend.

The PFL finals on Friday. You're going to watch anything this weekend? You got plans? I got plans, actually. So I don't know why I do this shit, but I decided to remodel my garage. So I already put all the all new drywall up and mudded it. And I was sanding it. That's why I was a little late tonight to get on the shit.

show and I was sanding the fucking drywall mud and yeah and now I got to paint it over the weekend so good times yeah you start a project you got to finish it's also getting wintertime here in Ohio so you don't be doing that too long in the in the outside well that's how I wanted my garage to be nice you know because I was I work out in my garage a lot and originally I was just like I'm going to paint this one wall right I just want you know just want this to look a little bit nicer so I can do maybe some videos or something you know film some Instagram clips or some shit in there and I was like I you know need this wall to look better and then that turned into the entire thing being taken apart and redone so it's been a job but yeah I love doing construction

work personally man it's very gratifying for me and it's something great in my down time to do there you go yeah I know you're in the uh working out in the sauna hanging out Coleman in the sauna so you're a busy man dude we love the sauna uh We're hitting it all the time. Every time my kids are over, they're begging to get in the sauna. And then I just got a couple of recliners for the sauna now. Damien, you got to come over, hit the sauna some time. It's a great time, man.

I got to do it, man. That's good. Now, yeah, you got the full setup over there. I got the full setup. Got the cold shower outside, waiting on a cold plunge to be here soon. It's just amazing, man. I love it. It's the best feeling ever.

You've got to have, like, the whole setup, like the recovery, the recovery and everything's there and then you get the immortal martial arts center for the training. Yeah, and my massage girl. She's going to come out and do the sauna and give us massages after. Damn, you're getting a full set of. It's going to be great.

I love it. I love it. Well, there are some fights this weekend. Obviously, PFL on Friday. I'll be covering that, PFL championship. Some pretty good fights on there. Kayla Harrison makes her return. Obviously, all the million-dollar fights on there.

And then there's some boxing matches this weekend. David Venevarez fights this weekend. So that would be good. Yeah, so incredibly good fighter. That's going to be good. And the next week, Matt, we'll be previewing the UFC Austin card, which, as we said, is a super good card. Benile Dary Usharman-Sarman-Sarukia and Dan Hooker, Bobby Green,

Kelvin Gasselm, Sean Brady. It's a really, really good card. So we'll be talking about all that. But as we get out of here today, Matt, let me give you a chance of anyone wants to check out what you got going on before I get to this interview with Patchy Mix. Where can people check out and support you is what you're doing? I am the immortal Twitter and Instagram

at the Immortal Coffee The No Crash Coffee And you know I also got to thank Redwood outdoors For the sauna And I think it's about all I got going on right now Probably some more but Yeah

It's been a long day You've been drywallins That's all right A big thank you as always For everyone the tunes in Enjoy this interview with Patchy Mix The new Bellator Bantamway champion We'll be back next week

With another edition The Fighter versus the writer Thanks for tuning in. So about a week or so ago, a little over a week or so ago, I introduced him as the number one Bantan Weight in the world. But if there was any question about that, it is now officially settled because he is now the undisputed Bellator Bantamweight World Champion.

It is always my pleasure to speak to the best bansom weight in all the mixed martial arts. Patsy, Mix. Patsy, you said you'd be back first interview after the championship, and here we are. Yeah, I feel good, man. I just got done. Let's finish Sergio Pettus Friday. Big performance.

A big statement made. Absolutely. We got a lot to talk about, of course. Obviously, some other news came out today that we'll talk about in a little bit. But let's get to the fight first because I told you going into it, this was my most anticipated fight for the rest of 2023. Now, Patchy, I got to be honest. I thought, man, this is going to be an incredible battle. I can't wait to see this chess match between Sergio and Patchy.

It wasn't much of a chess match. It was like you had the king and the queen and he had nothing but pawns. one-sided fight. Did you see it playing out in that fashion? Yeah, I thought it would be dominant. I thought I'd be even more dominant. I thought I'd put them away even in the first round had I got him down. I had three and a half minutes of control time.

So just kind of want to work on that. I should have put them away, I think. Could have mounted them early in the first round. I think it's made a couple of mistakes, but I'm happy to go in there and then second round, get the finish, do what I do, dominate, take the bat, trap the arm and do it beautifully, you know, a beautiful display of jiu-jitsu. It was incredible, and, you know, and we talked about it before you.

Sergio Pettis was on an incredible run, right? Like, you don't, you know, you don't go out and dominate Patricio Pitbull for five rounds the way he did by accident. You don't beat guys like Warren Archeletta by accident to go out there and dominate him the way you did. And I know, like you said, even in the first time, you could have got to finish. In my opinion, I think going in that second round even showed better because you had to, you know, you had to go and do it again.

And again, like, that's such a huge performance because Sergio was on a run, man. Like, Sergio looked incredible. And it just, it didn't. It looked like a mismatch. And I mean that with the endless respect to Sergio, but it looked like a mismatch. It definitely was. The size, the reach, the laying, you know, my physicality was a big mismatch. I thought just when in certain areas of the game, you know, I feel like obviously on the feet,

he can strike with anyone, but I felt like there would be a mismatch on the ground. And I would be able to put him away with relative ease because of my, you know, I'm a high-level black belt. I feel like one of the highest level black belts that are involved in MMA right now. So I knew I'd have the advantage there. Just kind of take my time. That's why I was thinking in the first round, you know. He's very good on the feet, like I said. So I didn't want to rush anything and let him scramble back to his feet.

I wanted to make sure I could secure position, anchor down on him and kind of make him tired as opposed to rushing things similar to why didn't the Wynardtch let a fight maybe he can get out. I thought it was very important to control him and weather wear on him

and then it was good to take his back like you said and I felt like the size and the physicality was a little bit too much for him in those departments. That scramble, the final scramble the lead to the finish was so beautiful.

When you took his back, you know, people kind of joke and they call you the human backpack, that is the last place you want to be in the world is having patchy mix on your back. But it was such a Like, I could only speak to the technique because you got him, you got his back, and then it was beautiful. You trapped his arm.

Your leg came down. You trapped his arm and boom, you had to choke. It was one of the most beautiful sequences I've seen in the finishing sequence. I don't know. Did you just know it in that moment because it was like rapid fire? Yeah, I just run the sequence, man. I ran it probably six times this morning. I'd grappled for like eight rounds this morning.

I was choking everyone out with that. I choked a lot of people out with that same sequence. It's my number one. Not my number one, but it's probably my number like four, to be honest with you. I have a bunch of other ones too. But that's one of them, you know, that's one of my favorite, favorite arm trap sequences. I kind of thought he was trying to go out the bottom, like, you know, get out the back door there. And it was important for me to make the adjustments.

I was happy to make the adjustments on the fly to in front of people. It's such a big crowd. It's for a world title. So it's, you know, not a lot of people can make the adjustments that I did in the lifetime. you know, as fast as I did it. So, you know, I'm just grateful that I showed, you know, brilliant technique. Absolutely. You know, we talked about it beforehand, you know, the goal to get to this title to become undisputed Belator champion.

Long time coming. And you mentioned very honestly the adversity you went through in that Warren Archeletta fight and then coming back from that. Can you give me a sense of the emotion, like in that moment of finally achieving that dream of finally becoming the undisputed Belator champion after all the work you put in to get there? I don't know, man. I just kind of felt like another night. I feel my last three fights were all world title level. Even though Sergio was out and he had that knee injury, Corruchi was such a high-level competitor.

I fought him for five rounds. Then I fought 19 and 2 Maga. He had never been finished. He was an ACB champion that beat Peter Yan. I fought him in a five-round fight. Then I fought Rufion Stads in a five-round fight, who's the interim champion. I almost felt like, you know,

I felt like deep down, I was already a... champion you know so it was it wasn't no different when I had won the fight it was just exactly what I expected myself to do you know I hold myself to that regard and I was kind of disappointed in myself like I had said earlier in the interview but when I watched it back I was really happy you know after I took it in you know I'm so my my biggest critique you know I'll go home after dominating a whole training session and I'll be upset because I didn't get a submission or something that's just me So it was When I watched it back

I was very happy with it Yeah I saw it today I think it was Jose Shorty Torres posted Like you're already back in the gym You're already in their training Literally two days later And help other people get ready for their fights Yeah it's three days later

I fought Friday So today's Monday a couple days Yeah three days later I'm back I'm gonna keep training I like training so I like jiu-jitsu I like rolling and grappling And especially I'm in May grappling

So I was just in there trying to help guys and get better myself. And Tatiana was in there role on too, so why wouldn't I be in there helping her? I gave her some, you know, grappling around to myself. And it was important, you know, just to kind of stay motivated. I'm not doing it for the belts or the money. I'm doing it for my own happiness.

So why not stay training, you know? Yeah. Did you put the belt in the closet? You said you're probably just going to go in the closet when you get it. Do you go in the closet? No, it's honestly, I had my other two belts around my floor in my room right now, but my other belts still in my suitcase over there. The one I just won, I didn't take it out yet.

I just got back yesterday, though. So, like, I didn't even unpack. I got three suitcases over there. But the belts in there, I had to put it in my carry-on suitcase, because I didn't want to put it underneath the plane because I don't know if someone would have took that thing, you know? I would have probably been pissed. Yeah.

Can I ask, did you get a chance to say anything to Sergio afterwards? Because I know you had a ton of respect for him going into it. Yeah, just talk, you know, much of the first. He said you're the champ now, you know, I'm just congrats. You know, we're both chomping at the same bit to get everything, you know. I'm just happy to make money with him, you know. We both made a, you know, a shit ton of money. You fought for a world title fight.

I'm won a Belator's biggest cards of the year. I'm just happy we both got paid. We both left with no injuries, you know? I'm training already. I think he was at the strip club last night with his family and shit. So, like, much respect to him, you know what I mean? I'm glad that we're not hurt. We're both healthy.

And, you know, he brought the best out of me. You know, I was very nervous for the fight because I know how dangerous he is, you know. Yeah. It's scary to go against those guys, in a sense, him and his brother, because the unorthodox techniques they have, the unknown, you know, they have something special when they fight. They make special things happen, and you don't want to be on the other end of that. You turn into like a statue, you know. Yeah. I ask you a lot of these questions before the fight, and it's always easier to ask you.

them afterwards. So I'll ask it now. You know, listen, I said this, going into our last interview, I said, I believe you're the number one band to witness sport. And that's not meant as a disrespect to anyone in the UFC or other organizations. I just felt like you were that good. But, listen, you had Sergio Pettis, you know, at that point, you know, you were 10 days away or whatever. So you had to get through him to kind of, you know, solidify that. Is there, not that there was ever a question in your mind, but going on doing what you did to Sergio Pettis, do you feel like that has answered all those questions? If there's a question about who is the number one

Bands in Weight and Mixed Martial Arts, that should have ended that debate. No, I mean, they won't really believe it until I fight all these guys. But, you know, it's the same contrary. They got to fight me, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's the same thing. I mean, how can they call these other guys the best when they'd ever fought me either? So it's the same thing, you know, I mean, I don't think me beating Sergio Pettis is going to warrant everyone to believe that.

But it just doesn't matter what I, you know, everyone else believes. It just matters what I believe, you know, the best in the world. And shit, I just know it, you know. I mean, I'm in the gym. I train with everybody, you know, from 135 to 170. I get most of my work up weight classes, you know, 140, 155. A lot of tough guys up there in those weight classes. But I feel, you know, I don't think that me beating Sergio is going to warrant that, though.

You know, until I fight those guys that, until I fight them. No one's going to, you know what I mean, give me the credit that I believe, one day, you know, one day earned. But for now, I don't really mind. You know, it just matters what I believe, you know. I'm very wealthy. Look, I made a lot of money this year. I'm going to continue to make a lot of money in my next few fights next year.

And I'm just trying to keep my ball rolling, keep my momentum going, keep getting better, keep learning. And eventually, you know, there will be no doubt. let's say Chito Vera goes and wins and beats Sean O'Male, you know? Is he better than me? You know, I mean, it's just bizarre, you know. 19 and 1 15 finishes. I have wins over a lot of, a lot of my guys that I've finished have wins over the top guys in the UFC, you know.

Magamette has a win over Yan. You know, there's a whole bunch of guys that I've beaten that have wins over these guys. You know, Andre Yule has a win over. Jonathan Martinez over there. You know, Bendejas beat Marab years ago. You know what I mean? And look at my boy Marab. He's on a 10-foot win streak.

Like, we're all evolving. We're all getting better. You know what I mean? And until those fights happen, like, you know, let's say, until let's say me and Sean O'Malley were to fight, you just don't know. So, but I know deep down in my head that I can compete with anyone in the world. You know, I know I'm just as dangerous as these guys.

So these fun fantasy matchups until they happen, They're just kind of, you know, just fun. Yeah, I did see the Instagram post, though, you had yesterday where you said, people think this guy could beat me? Come on now, I did see that one. That was pretty good. With the Sean O'Malley guy, I was like, that's Sean O'Malley, isn't it? I did get a laugh out of that one.

Yeah, we started fighting at the same time, you know. He's 9 and 2 as an amateur. I'm 11 and 0 as an amateur with eight finishes. He's 17, 1-1-1 is a pro with 13 finishes. He has wins over two active UFC fighters. I have 18 and 1 with 15, I mean 19 and 1, pardon him now with 15 finishes. Sergio Pettis had wins over UFC champion, Brandon Marino, UFC interim champion, Joseph Vanavides. And I put him away in seven minutes.

Magamad Magamatov had a win over a UFC champion, Peter Yan. I put him to sleep, the only one to ever finish him. Rufian Stats was 19 and 1 on a tear, 11-fight win streak. seven years hadn't been beaten. I literally knocked him out with one shot in 80 seconds. Kioji Horaguchi, multiple time, he was a reigning risen and Belator champion at one point, fought for the UFC title, only lost in the UFC with Demetrius Johnson. I dominated him.

Came out and had that 10-8 round in the first round. So, you know, I feel I'm up there with anybody. You know, I just can compete with these guys. So a lot of people are just crediting me, you know, because I'm not over with the three. letters over there, whatever, you know, because I won the Bellator World title. But, you know, they just don't know. I'm just getting started. I'm 30 years old.

And I'm going to get, I mean, I finished 13 out of my last 14 wins. I'm like, watch. I'm going to finish like 18 out of my last 19. I'm just going to run this like five more, six foot more fights in the next like 18 months. And people are going to realize, oh, shit, patchy mix is better than everyone. Absolutely. And I said, like I said, I have nothing but respect. for guys like Shauna Malley,

but I think you could do to Sean O'Malley, what you did to Sergio Pettis from being honest. Like, I think that's a matchup you could absolutely win. We're just not going to see it right away. Yeah, you know, I mean, down the line maybe, but even when that time comes, who knows when it will be, I don't even know if he'll be champion. You know, I really feel like Marab's over there,

and he's going to end up, you know, being the champ. I train with that guy a lot. Like, I inspired him like 40 rounds last camp, you know. He's tough. I think he's going to end up, I mean, unless they get Aljo in the rematch, which I don't think they're doing. I think Marov could, I think he honestly beat Sehudo, even though I'm team dominance. You know, I think he'll eventually get a shot at the belt over there.

You know what I mean? But me, on the other hand, I'm over here. I'm lined up, you know what I mean? I just resigned the contract. I just finished a fight on my contract and now, you know, news drops. So all those fun fantasy matchups They're going to have to be put on hold for a while Of course, you know, I got some business

At 102 now over here on my side of the street Yeah, so of course we know the big news that came out today The PFO PFO purchased Bellator I'll get to that in one second Can I just ask you on a like a broader perspective Now that it looks like I mean I know there I know the Bellator brand is technically going to carry on But let's be honest it's now under a new umbrella

You spent so much of your career building up in Bellator We talked before you made your Bellator debut Can I just ask you what Bellator has meant to you as an organization, whether we're talking about Scott Koch or Mike Cogan, the team over there. Again, we don't know who else's going to move on, but like can you kind of encapsulate that relationship you had, what they meant to you? Yeah, I had a real good relationship with that. I do have still have a real good relationship with Bellator. It's like a good family, man. I love them.

I love every single last staff member and, you know, the ownership. Mike Hogan, he changed my life, that guy. I was like a kid, man, I was fighting in King of the Cage, 10 and 0 on a 25 win streak. My first fight, he put me in Madison Square Garden. I made life-changing money. My mom, my whole family was there.

He turned me around three months later, put me another fight, put more money in my pocket, then turned me around again, gave me a new contract, flew me to Japan, gave me an opportunity to fight one of the best guys in Tokyo on New Year's. Then after that,

I was six minutes in the promotion. He gave me a title shot. you know life-changing money there um after that made me big-ass fights you know like i traveled the world msg Tokyo uh Ireland i fought james galler over there and then they put me in the million-dollar tournament sent me to hawaii twice gave me for all these world champions um gave me life-changing money and i can't be uh grateful enough for these people you know um the promotion in itself i was eight and nine and one in bellator with eight finn't finishes. You know, I almost had a perfect run. You know, had I put Arturletta away. So, you know,

that's where I made my name. It's where, you know, I kind of transformed from young Patsy to now who I am, you know, I'm in my prime, 30 years old. And I'm just getting started. So it was the beginning of my career. And I'm just looking forward to the future. Yeah, absolutely. So I know this is all happening in real time, you know, in terms of like what's going on over there. We mentioned this beforehand when I talked to you about PFL and Bellator. The Belator does, excuse me, PFL doesn't promote a Bantanweight division. Like, they don't have a Bantanway champion. So you guys are kind of coming in as the Bantanway Division.

And we know they're, you know, they said Bellator is going to continue on as its own thing. Bellator champions are going to defend their belts and things like that. Can I just get your thoughts on this? Because it is kind of a weird one in your situation because you are legitimately, in my mind, the number one Bant to win the sport. But you don't have that option of like the champ versus champ fights because they don't have a of Vanceaway Division. Yeah, you know, it would be cool if they had a dope-ass champion that everyone feared,

you know what I mean? And then I could come over there and run his pockets and beat his ass, you know what I mean? That's what I'm thinking, but they don't have that. So for me, I don't know what, I don't know, you know, I kind of look forward to defending my belt. I just got it. I have wins. If you look at the rankings, I don't think I could fight anyone like six is Sabatello,

seven is Leandro Higo, who's lost. This is Sabatello. Eight is Enrique Barzola. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs,

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for my daughter. At just $39.99, how could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss?

Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at winters? Stop wondering. Gifting. Winners find fabulous for less. You know, those guys have all lost to the guys that are in the top upper echelon of my division. So I have cleared out the division, you know, one through five.

Number one, Sergio Pettis. I've beat them. Number two, Rufiant Stats. Number three is Artuleta. Number four is Maga and number five is Gio or Gucci. So I beat four out of five. There's one guy sitting there. And there's only one match, man.

There's only one fight. There's only one fight to make. And, you know, I've been chasing it since the day it happened, and it has to happen, you know what I mean? Why not make me versus Arturletta? Me versus Juan Arturlotta, 29 and 4. I'm coming back stronger than ever, and I'll show the mistakes, you know. I made mistakes in that first fight that I will never make again.

And I believe I could put him away, you know. That's what I want to do. I want to fight him. You want to finish him. I want to get my right. my record correctly again. Yeah, absolutely. I know he mentioned that at the night of the fight.

I know he tweeted it. You know, he'd like to get that fight back. And I think he's in for it. Obviously, he's on a good run right now, you know, doing the thing with Risen. And I know he's got a fight coming up on New Year's Eve. But I think that's the natural fit, right? Like, that's the biggest fight that can be made right now because Archillette is legit.

I know you want that one back. And let's be honest. There's just not a lot of other options. You already beat everybody else. Like, who else would you fight? Sabatella just lost again. Yeah, yeah. Like, who else would I fight?

Had Sabatello come. through. I mean, MAGA submitted Sabatello. Stats just won. I mean, Stads and me even make a good fight too, not trying to sound dumb. It's just I want that one back. I mean, necessarily, like, Stats might even be in the better run because he knocked out Archiletta, you know? Sergio also beat Archelaide for five rounds. People are forgetting this, you know? Archelaide did his work. He went over there and he went to fight in Risen. I felt like he fought some guys that are a little bit undersized. Those guys aren't really ranked in the world. You know what I mean? he fought guys in the rise and to win that belt I felt that knew how to lose you know they have a lot of losses you know as opposed to the upper echel line of bellator so I feel like he did what was right for his career you know and he's making a shit ton of money over there I'm happy for him but let's not let's you know not not confuse it I feel like I've had the tougher um the tougher list that you know the tougher schedule and I feel like that will be the reason why there will be a level difference you know I

I feel like because of my opponents, I had to rise to a different level that he has. And I feel like right now, I feel like I'm on a different level. And I feel like I can win that fight. I feel like I can finish him. So, you know, I feel like for the fans, like you said, he has a win over me. You know, who wouldn't want to see that? He's on a four-fight win streak. I'm on a six-fight win streak.

And, you know what I mean? Run it back. Patchy mix one or two-letter two. Not last time we fought without no crowd. Like, you know what I mean? No one was even there. And you know how much dangerous, more dangerous I am now? Shit.

No one's pet she makes that Jackson wink just started. You know what I mean? I'm here from way different now. So, you know what I mean? I'm a butcher in there. So I feel, you know, imagine that. What if I, what if I butchered him and finished him? You know what I mean?

Oh, my, you know, I mean, 20 and 1, 16 finishes, avenged his only lost. That would be amazing. And that's a, to me. that's a pay-per-view fight like that's a big fight like i know they're doing pay-per-view that's a paper-view fight yeah um it's a huge fight and much respect to him you know what i mean shit gets me up at night you know what i mean um archelaide is a gangster too shit 29 and 4 you don't get that high like you don't get that many wins you know he's about to come up on his 30th

win he runs down askara i mean that fight makes sense but let's say he doesn't i don't know you know i mean he could go out there asker can come out and catch you that's I can knock you out. So, you know, he does his job, gets it done. He should be calling for Patchy Mix. You know, if I were him, I'd be saying my name every chance he got. He's the only one to kind of squeak by. And I don't really, you know, I feel like he survived me.

You know what I mean? Like, you know, I had him in a very, a lot of danger a lot of times. I use a lot of energy. And then, you know, I just felt like it was, it wasn't my best performance. And I feel like he really fought to his level, you know? And for me, I feel like I wouldn't have. fight, you know, I don't know, man. I feel like I could win that fight nine times out of ten, you know.

So I would honestly go in that with the same amount of confidence. You know, I'd probably go in that with more confidence that I've gone in with any of my fights, you know. I truly believe that it's fate that that happened and now it's fate that we've, our stars are, they may align if he wins on the 31st. Yeah, and this, I don't mean, this is not to discount his win. I don't want to sound like I am, but, you know, it was, what, three, two. you know, the rounds.

Like, you know, if you want to say it scored by rounds, three, two, it wasn't like he was, you know, it wasn't like he did to you what Pettis did to Pitbull or anything like that. Like, it was three, two, if you want to argue three, two. Like, that's how close it was. It wasn't, like, you know. He beat me in a much more narrow decision than Pettus beat him, you know? Like, Pettus won five, four to one and five to zero on the score cards.

Me and him had much closer fight. And not to mention the positions I was in. Like, let's just. say you give a 30-year-old patchy mix those same positions and I mean he's a little older himself now Could he survive that you know I mean I'm a different As Coraguchi survived me when I was on his back years ago You know pet is proved last night. He couldn't I mean on Friday and that's because I'm ever evolving like you know I'm very very Very

progressed I mean if you look at me from the Archiella fight till now I I truly believe it would take me about two minutes to to put myself, you know, if I were to go against myself. It'd take me about two minutes to finish that version of patchy mix. Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask you, you mentioned, obviously, we know before this all happened, you did sign a new contract with Bellator. And obviously the contracts, everything are switching over. You've got a great management team, of course, the great Ali Abdelaziz as your manager.

Can I imagine now that you are moving over into this new deal, like you are being paid well. Like that is part of it. Like you are being taken care of. Oh, yeah. I'm getting paid a, I mean, I'm getting paid a shit ton of money. I got paid a shit ton of money on Friday. You know, I signed a new deal. That was my first one on my new deal.

And I got, you know, I got paid out very, very, very good. And, you know, as a champion, shit. As the best, as one of the best band-of-weights in the world, shit, you know what I mean? Absolutely. And that's why I think, like, it gets lost because, listen, as a fantasy matchmaker, Pat, you would I love to see you go over and fight Ashana O'Malley? Of course I would. Like it'd be fun to settle that debate, right?

But the reality is like your contract where it's at right now, like you're going to get paid very handsomely. And ultimately, while the accomplishments, legacy, those things are all great. You got a family to provide for. You got a family, you know, no matter where you go, though, at the level I'm at, no matter where you go, you're going to get paid. I mean, I'm the best in the world. So had I be over there, I'd be getting paid as well, too.

You know what I mean? And I'd be fighting the biggest fights, too. So it's just, you know, that's just how business worked at the time. And, you know, like, I'm very grateful to defend this belt. I'm very grateful to earn this belt. And I look forward to defending it. You know, I want to be an active champion. That's the one big thing with this full PFL deal and with my contract.

When I had signed this deal, I believe it was, there was like a time on it, you know, a timestamp, like so many months, you know. I don't know exactly the time. of which the duration of the contract is, but I knew it was for a certain amount of fights and a certain amount of time, and I really want to stay active, you know? I would like to fight as a champion, you know, I want to fight three times a year.

You know, I want to fight like that. Similar how I did in the tournament for Bellator last year, I want to fight actively, and I want to be an active champion that makes active title defenses because I stay in the gym anyways, and I feel like when I'm active, and I compete, I feel like that's my best self.

You know, I feel like when I see, sit for eight months, seven months. I get stagnant and tired. You know, I'd like a fight in between. Yeah. I remember having this talk with Michael Chandler years ago when he was come up to free agency. And at the time, he had re-signed with Bellator.

But at the time we were asked, I was just talking to a question. He said, you know, I do feel like there's going to be coming time where I feel like I have to go to the UFC just to kind of silence the critics, so to speak, and do my thing over there. And obviously, Michael's found success in the UFC, things like that. Is there any part of you that? like, do you feel like at some point you have to do the UFC just to silence those, not the critics necessarily, but like prove, you know, to get those fights?

Or would you be completely satisfied? Like, hey, they're paying you a boatload of money and you're having fights you're enjoying. Like, does it matter that you ever go to the UFC? I don't know, man. I don't, I live day to day, you know, I just, I don't know right now. You know, I just want to stay active and fight, you know. Of course, you know, I want to be, I just want the world to know. what we know, you know, that my team, I mean, I train in all these gyms. Every coach knows how

great I am. Every coach knows because they see me roll with, they see me grapple, they see me spar, they see me go with guys all the way up to like 170 and they see me dominate them, you know what I mean? I mean, like, very, very high level people too. So it's like, I want to get recognized in the notoriety, but I'm not a big, like, fathead in this shit. I don't really have ego with it. I don't need to, like, I almost like sliding around invisible and making a mass amount of money and not really having to deal with all that other bullshit. shit but I know that the overhead I mean for the for bellator

the star part where you could be let's say when bellator didn't merge yet it was only it would be cap you know you can only get to a ceiling obviously in the UFC that ceiling so fucking huge you know like if you're a huge star you can make five million dollars a fight and who's to say that

I'm not a fucking huge star you know what I mean because I finish every single person so I feel like now with this merger I feel at least Bellator ceiling is going to go super high because, I mean, you see the likes of Jake Paul and Francis Nagano. I mean, Francis Nagano potentially, or Jake Paul potentially wants to fight D.S. for like a $15 million pay-per-view card or some $15 million. Like, I could be on that card. You know what I mean? Shit, who knows, man? Maybe I could be the co-made event to that MMA card, you know? I'm a killer, depending on the opponent and stuff. So it's like, the ceiling

is very cool to see. Like, now that the merger's there, I feel like Bellator is like where our star power could be. If you want to be a star, now that you put the two promotions together, I feel like your ceiling could be a lot higher. Absolutely. And like I said, man, that $5 million payday,

you could absolutely get that in the PFL now, too. Like I said, they're paying $15 million to Nate Diaz. Who says, Pat, you mix isn't worth $5, $10 million? Yeah, I'm thinking, like, you know, they're paying this crazy money, and I think it's great for, you know, one sex are I think it's great for like

just business and stuff to see it but yeah you know to be a part of these special events you know pay-per-view events I think that's what I'm interested in that's what I want to be a part of and I just want to grow my name you know I just want to be promoted and grow my name you know 19 and 1 15 finishes

I want to be the face of Bannonweight if since I'm outside the UFC I want to be the face of Bannemweight outside the UFC you know what I mean I wanted them to put some promotion behind me and promote me as dangerous as I am, you know. No one has these credentials, man. You know, I'm 19 and 1 with 15 finishes. That dude over there on the other side of the street, 17, 1 in 1 with 13 finishes.

And look at his opponents. He only has two wins over active UFC fighters, and he beat Peter Yan by split decision. Peter Yan loses another fight, mind you. He might be getting cut and be over with me. I might take his back. So, you know what I mean? He better win. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I know, listen, you mentioned your guy, Marab. I have a huge amount. I love Marab de Wallis, really, man. It bums me out. He didn't get the title fight. Can I ask you

out of curiosity? Do you think Cheeto beats Sean? Do you think that could happen when they fight in a couple months? I'm sounding like a hater. I don't know. I think, like, I think Sean could catch him. I think he's like, I don't know, man. I respect Cheater. He's a fighter's fight. like a fighter shit I would fight him too man I'm a fighter too you know I mean like you know know like I respect him but um I don't know I don't know if Sean will capitalize on it you know I mean I don't know how it goes you know I think that Cheeto is dangerous enough to put him away again probably you know I mean he might kick him in the legs and put him away he might be a little more durable shit I'm durable as hell too you know I mean that's what I think about

like I think that he might be too durable to get put away by that Sean O'Malley's like a counterpuncher boxer style like he wants to you to, he just wants to pull across you. That's really it. He wants to, like, use his boxing to lure you in to get you to over-extend. Like, he's doing these teeps to get you to overextend and shit. Like, I see his style. But I don't know if Cheeto will overextend.

And he's already hurt him. Like, all he's got to do is be patient, kick him in the legs, be patient. I think that, yeah, I think Chito, I would favor him to win that fight. That specific fight, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I love what you. You said it during the press conference last week. You said that, you know, you had nothing but praise for a guy like Marab de Wailashv,

and you said, you know, we did seven or eight championship fights, you know, getting you ready for Sergio Pettus. You said, I have no doubt he's going to be a UFC champion. So I know in the back of your mind, like, you're rooting for Marab to get there and do that thing because I think he is. Like, in my opinion, he should be in the fight. Morab's a boogeyman, bro. If you don't, I mean, if you don't have something to stop him from shooting in, then, I mean,

you might, you, I mean, you've got to have the. best guillotine in the entire world, and he'll still get through it. You know what I mean? He'll still get through it a few times, multiple times, you know what I mean? So Marab is like a fucking machine, dude. He's like a, he is. That's what his name is. He's like a snowball going downhill that's only getting bigger when he starts fighting.

It's a worst nightmare. Like, could you imagine him trying to take those two guys down that are fighting for the title? Could you imagine that he takes them down or they can't stuff a few takedowns and he gets some dog tired like he did in Peter Yan? like he made Peter Yan look like his nephew. Like literally, he could have put him in a booster chair and made him, he could have put him in a booster seat in the back of the seat. I mean, in the back of the car, like a child would.

That's how he made him look because he just got him so tired. He shot 48 times on the guy. I sat there and I was going crazy front row for this fight. You know, I was so happy for Marab. But Marab's wrestling then sets up his striking. And he might not have like the most clean, polished striking. but his wrestling gets you so tired that good luck trying to defend yourself, you know what I mean? If you're not a specialist, you know what I mean?

And I don't think those two guys that are fighting for the titles are. You know, I think that, like, Marab's toughest fight in that division would probably be Aljo because they both know each other. They both have styles that clash with each other. And I think it'd be like a chess match. But when he goes against, like, Sean O'Malley or Tito Vera, I truly think that Marab could break them. Yeah, absolutely.

I remember years ago I was down an American Top Team, and I got to go to a sparring session. I watched Jorge Mazvedal and Dustin Porre. Now, they were really good friends close, and at that point, Jorge, it was a welterweight. But it was fun. It was fun to watch those two guys spar just being like a fly on the wall.

I got to come to Vegas sometime and see the sparring session with you and Marab. I think that would be a lot of fun to watch. Yeah, we've probably sparred 100, fucking 50 rounds, man. He's dope. He spar all the time. him you know i train with a lot of guys actually that are um my bandamates you know i mean i sparked a lot with rob font this camp he's looking real nice right now he was good uh he was the only one to beat

serjeer the last one to beat sergio so he came out to vegas and we chopped it up we had like throw ego aside just you know good ass rounds um both you know trying new shit both trying to get better both working stuff it was like good pace you know me and him worked me and calvin cater work this camp. Spar a lot with Rojas. And I spar a lot with Javid and Farad Bosharat. Those guys, 15 and 0 and 12 in O. Those dudes are tough as hell.

You know, they're going to be, they'll be in the top 15 in the world, you know, in the next 12 months, I'm telling you. These guys are very good, especially, you know, both of them have different styles. I think Javid's more, he has more wins in the UFC right now. He's 15 and O. I think he'll creep up a little bit sooner than Farid will,

his younger brother. But Farad, man, he's something special, dude. I think people are going to really see Farid Bajar's name come out in the next 12 months. Absolutely. They're both beasts. And I know we talked before, your guy, Umar. Umar's coming back from the shoulder, Andrew, and he's back. That's another one to add in that mix.

Yeah, I don't train with Umar as much as I train with those guys because me and those two are from Extreme Couture. You know what I mean? We just are there all the time. And then me and Marab are just, I look at it as I can train with these guys because I'm not on that side of the street, you know? So I personally get the best of both worlds Because I could train with all these guys And I'm not over there You know, I'm contractually obliged over here

So it's like No one feels this threat So we can all work together And there's no ego, you know what I mean? Like some of these guys I don't think they train with each other Because they could potentially fight You know what I mean?

And then it kind of like They don't get the I kind of get the best work You know what I mean at the weight class Because I can work with everyone There's a very big variety for me Yeah, absolutely. I don't train with any Belletor 135 muggers.

Yeah. And obviously, you're also, you're getting Tatiana ready for her own title in the near future because she's going to be a champion very soon. I have a feeling. Yeah, she'll be champion. She's, I mean, they don't count her fights on the ultimate fighter, but if anyone really knows, Tatiana should be 10 and 0 in the UFC. You know, she's 7 and 0 in the UFC with five finishes,

and she's 10 and 0 if you count the ultimate fighter with seven finishes. I mean, that's just as many fights as I have in Bellator. I'm 9-in-1. She's 10-0 in the UFC. Almost finished, she has a 70% finish rate. Almost, you know what I mean? That's unheard of. She has three wins over former UFC world champions.

Jess Gondraj, Carlos Sparza. She finished both of them. And she has a finish win over the current 125-pound champion, Alexa Grasso. And she finished her in the first round. So people are going to start recognizing and realizing and how great she is and just one more finish that's all we need

if whoever they give her next she will finish and then she will be 8-0 and she will be on the trajectory to be the best women's fighter there was in the UFC she had to take four years off bar you you know mind you

she tore every knee every ligament in her knee and had multiple surgeries in it had she not took those four years off where would Tatiana Suarez be what would her record be you know what I mean she would have won, she would be the most decorative UFC fighter there was. She would be right up there when Kayla Harrison was 15 and O

and that, you know, everyone was speaking so high praise of her, Tatiana would be right there. And the trajectory might have changed, but it's never altered or flawed. You know, it's going to happen, and it's going to happen in 2024. You know, we're going to continue this run that she's on, and we're going to just, we're running the last 100 meters here. and we're going to sprint to that finish line and she's going to finish this next girl

and when she gets that opportunity at the title she will finish whoever has that title and she will make it relatively look easy just the way I did because the way that Tatiana trains and the belt doesn't the belt doesn't determine if she's the best in the world

she already is the best in the world at 115 pounds someone else just has the belt right now but if she were to match up with that whoever has the belt right now, two-day, Tatiana will beat him from pillar to post five rounds all day of the week, and she probably finishes them too. So we're just getting started, and she's healthy, she's happy right now, and she's going to be a motherfucker, honestly.

She's going to be a motherfucker to deal with next. Absolutely. That's why I was joking with you before the fight. I said you guys are going to have to, like, get a new display case. I know you don't display your titles, but you guys have got to buy some extra hardware for all the bills you're going to have around there. And I say the same thing about you is, again, nothing but absolutely. I have nothing but respect for guys like Sean O'Malley.

Just because he's got the UFC title, doesn't mean he's the best in the world. Yeah, you know, but he is the best in his, I mean, he might not be the best in his league because he's only fought two of the guys. So, you know what I mean? Where's the other 12 or 13? There's 15 guys ranked in the world, right?

How come he didn't fight any of those guys? There's a reason why he's only fought short guys, too. They never matched him up against anyone his height or like me. You know what I mean? He also had a fucking close fight with Andre Secklema. You know, I don't even know. You know, like, I don't know. I'm not trying to sound stupid either, but like, I don't really have that many close fights.

You know what I mean? I'm normally dominating and finishing all my fight. So it's like, I see it. You know, he's over there. He's the best of his league, I think. You know, right now he's got the belt. I'm the best of my league, so it's cool to see. And then Archulet is over in Risen.

He's got that one. And then I think Demetrius Johnson, I don't know if really how one works, you know. I think like Demetrius Johnson is probably the 125. five-pound champion, but they do it at 135. You know what I'm saying? Like the hydration clause? Because I think Fabicio Andrage is like another band weight out there that's very, very dangerous. You know, he's a one champion.

Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely, yeah. They have the weird weight class thing. So technically, I guess it would be that. Like, yeah. You're trying to think of like the major band weights, you know, there's, like you said, it's not just one that's the best. Could you imagine a Grand Prix of all of us in one, you know, who would come out on top?

I wouldn't say necessarily it would just be the, you know, Sean O'Meil of the UFC champion. You know, I think any of us other guys could compete with him, whether it be myself, Artuleta, Demetris Johnson, Sergio, Stats, all those guys. Yeah. Even if there's a, if there's a Grand Prix in that one, let me just go and say at a time I got my money on Patchy Mix. I'm just saying.

Patchy, it is. Yeah, I'm known for winning those things. Exactly, exactly. Well, Patchy again, man, congratulations. on an amazing performance, an amazing victory. Enjoyed. I know you're already back in the gym, but, man, enjoy the victory. You earned it. You deserve it. Can't wait to see what comes for you in 2024 and beyond.

And I appreciate you doing this as always. I know we said we would do the interview right after the fight, and here we are. So I appreciate the time. Enjoy the victory, man. And give Tatiana my best. I can't wait to see her back in action. And we will talk soon, I'm sure. Yeah, and big thank you to everyone behind the scenes at Bellatory.

You know what I mean? They made the show run. Big thank you to Scott Coker. Big thank you to Mike Cogan Mike Cogan is the one that found me, man This guy, you know, I was a diamond in the dirt And he found me, changed my life So I'm very fucking appreciated of him

And thank you to Ali and dominance, man, you know These guys, whatever's to be held You know, this Bellator PFL, whatever's to happen next I'm just thankful for all the staff I want to, you know, they make the show run And they're like family to me So I'm very appreciative of all them Absolutely, Patrick. It is always a pleasure

my friend enjoy the win congratulations again and let's talk soon thank you brother i'll see you a podcast network