MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown REACTS to Ronda Rousey’s Comments on Joe Rogan Plus Jake Paul vs. Francis Ngannou and More

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to Ronda Rousey’s latest comments about how fans and media abandon fighters after losing and her criticisms aimed at Joe Rogan. We also discuss Dana White firing back at fans about complains over lackluster UFC cards plus Jake Paul in danger of losing the Tank Davis fight but would he actually face someone like Francis Ngannou instead? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I got a great deal on a great gift at Winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. At just $39.99, how could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss?

Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at Winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners, find fabulous for less. This week on Net Worth and Chill, we're joined by Sophia Bush, the powerhouse actor, director, and activist. From her breakout role on One Tree Hill to becoming an investor, Sophia has mastered the art of turning talent into lasting wealth while never compromising her values. She gets real about the financial mistakes she made in her 20s and how she learned to negotiate in Hollywood's Boys Club. We dive deep into how she's building financial independence on her own terms.

Get ready for an unfiltered conversation about money, power, and what it really means to get rich while staying true to yourself. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com slash your rich BFF. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. The Fighter versus the Rider. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we are coming off a weekend of another UFC Apex card going into another weekend with the UFC Apex card. I put out the main card for this weekend's card.

Listen, I don't like, you know me, Matt. I don't go out on my way to slam anybody. Like, I try never to insult fighters. It's the other things I never want to do. but next week it's card the main card there's one ranked fighter on the entire six-fight card and it's the main event it's one guy he's ranked the number 14 I put it out last night

everyone's like what is going on with these cars right now it's just it's rough times out there wait who is it who would that guy be Gabriel bonfine he's fighting Randy Brown in the main event that is the main event of an apex car it's not a bad I mean the card it's not a bad fight actually I mean it's a prelim fight on most cards but on a main event

a pay-per-view but that's a that's actually a solid fight though man like well i mean like last night so Steve Garcia and David O'nama thought I was going to be a great fight didn't end up in that way Garcia just you know tore through him in the first round but I was like on paper like on paper it was a really good fight it just wasn't like just not a lot of hype behind you know what I mean you want to get kind of buzzy about and it's just like eh you know it was a good fight I was looking forward to it but just yeah it was uh it's been rough scene I want to ask you Matt I'm curious this is totally off subby but I might as well bring it up to you

before the fight Dana did like a Q&A, you know, at PowerSlapp. I've seen this. I know where you're going. Yeah, legitimate sport the Power Slap is. And somebody said, what's up with the next two cards? They suck. And Dana's like, you know, shut the fuck up.

How can you judge a card before it happens? If it sucks after it hit me up. I'm like, Dana, I don't think you get the point. People are not saying the fights won't be decent. But you tune in because you want to watch a fight. And if there's nobody on a card you want to watch, that's what they're talking about. They're not talking about the equality. of the fights. I can tune into LFA or

CFFC on a Friday night if I just want to see some fun, cool knockouts because those organizations run a good show, and I may not know any of the names of the fighters, but I'll see some cool knockouts, some cool prospects, things like that, but they're talking about name value. Not talking about the quality of the fights. They're talking about like these cards that are

just like, I mean, they're really bad. They're not like, there's just no name value on them. Yeah, I mean, it's essentially an LFA or CFC, you know, regional show, right? But they're just it at the apex. So I think, I mean, I don't know. I think like we know what it is too, right? Like, you know, we know that that's what we're getting. I don't know. I don't know why people

really complain about us so much personally. But, you know, Dana's not promoting it as like the next big main event fight either. You know, he's not out there saying that. He's like he's putting on fights and, you know, it's a very, I'm sure, very cheap for them to put on the fights. And, you know, it's not like to pay guys millions of dollars or anything. So, you know, if they get, I guess they're fulfilling their ESPN deal still, right? So, yeah, they're just getting that shit out of the way so they can move on to Paramount. And, you know, Dana said, bro, he don't give a fuck. Like, I mean, he's kind of always been like that, right?

Always been that guy to talk like that. But at this point in his career, like, he doesn't. Yeah. You think he doesn't care about. He's like, he's got like half a billion in the bank, bro. And I'm not defending the cards because obviously it's my job. I cover every single one whether they're great or they're amazing or they're terrible. But also you've got to remember like we're at a point now where like there's like 40, 45, 47 cards a year.

There's 52 weeks a year. You're getting a UFC event every week but like five weeks out of the year. And that's usually like they take a little break around the holidays and a couple other weeks there and there. and I kind of look at it I'm not defending it by the way but here's the thing you don't have to watch every UFC card like you don't have to watch every single event

and it's like I'm a football fan and I watch college football and I watch pro football my bingles are god awful this year like I don't watch every NFL game like when there is a really like two really bad teams playing I just turn the channel

like I don't really need to see the oh and 16 play the one and five team but I'll watch the good games and that's kind of like where we're at now Like when you get to the playoffs, everyone watches the playoffs. It's like, I don't need like when like in college football, it's even more mismatches. Like when my team is playing like when Ohio State was playing Wisconsin a couple weeks ago, I watched like half the game or like three quarters of the game.

But it was so far out of reach at that point. I'm like, why am I watching like a 40 point blowout at this point? Like I'm not going to learn anything I don't already know. And I think that's kind of, I almost feel like that's what these Apex cards are. Like if you want to watch because they're on, it's like watching two really bad football teams that you don't really care about. you just like watching football. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way. You're just like watching football.

But you're not tuning in because you're going to think you're going to see the Super Bowl contenders. You're not watching that kind of game. And that's kind of what these Apex cards are like, yeah, you can occasionally get that gym in the rough or something like that. But they're not telling you. When you look at UFC 32 coming up in a couple weeks, that main card is ridiculous. You got two title fights, Sean Brady, Michael Morales. You got Benel Darius and Benoit Saint-Dini. I mean, that's a really good card.

They moved up to the main card finally, right? Yeah, really good card. But, like, I don't think they're actually expecting you to watch every single car. Yeah, you know, the interesting thing is because they used to call it the Super Bowl of MMA. Yeah. Right. And I think they've just kind of moved past that, right?

And I think the fans need to recognize, like, that's not what it is. Like, it's an entertainment sport, you know, maybe like 80% sport, maybe 60, 40, right? Sports entertainment. but like maybe even 60-40 entertainment to sport, right? I don't know, but it's, but that's what it is. It's not the Super Bowl of M.A. anymore. Like Francis Ingano is not there.

So like if you're doing having a Super Bowl of MMA, like you need Francis and Gano. Yeah. Right? When Fador was around, like it didn't have Fador. It was like, for you to have the Super Bowl, you got to have Fador. So we just have to recognize like that's not what it is no more. And they don't, I don't think they really try to.

promoted is that either right they're trying to sell you entertainment more or less right i mean obviously they're gonna push the guys like he's the greatest fighter ever or whatever you know he's done this and that but Connor changed the fucking game bro well i mean look at like when they go to the when they go to the when they go to a city or a town or a country where they're getting a big as like site fee like the guitar i've never been to guitar have no desire to go to guitar i'm not knocking guitar i'm just saying like i've not you should go to guitar it's cool i've been there i've heard it's great just like dubai here Dubai is awesome. I've just never been. But like I'm not, that's not generally a destination for me necessarily.

But that guitar card is awesome. Dan Hooker and Armisarukian, Balow and Ian Gary. Like, that's a good card and that's not a pay-per-view. Like, that's just a fight night card. I think what we're, I think what we have to remember is like when you're doing four shows a month and you get one pay-per-view, you might get one other, like, pretty good card out of that. The other ones are going to be filler. You're going to, I mean, you know, you're going to get a couple, maybe a couple of rank guys.

You're going to get a couple decent fights in there. but that's not what they're doing. And I mean, I'm not saying it's great. I'm not saying like, but I'm also remembering, like, I'm paid to cover the sport, so I have to watch every single fight. You don't. Like, not you, I'm saying. Like, you don't.

Like, if you're just like, hey, man, I want to go watch a movie on a Saturday night. Right. Or I can watch, you know, Gabriel Bonfeeman, Randy Brown. Go see your movie. You can go watch it on replay later. Like, you don't need to watch every single fight every single night. Go to great website, mhmapfiting.com. We'll have the results up.

You can see, like, oh, it was a great. knockout. Now I can go watch the replay. You don't need to sit down every, you don't need to spend every Saturday night. Like, I've got to be planned to watch UFC. It would be pretty cool, though, if every weekend we had a card that was worthy of watching, right? Yeah, it's not, it's not reality, man. Yeah, but it's fine, you know, like some, you know, some fans are, he's my first a bitch about anything, bro. Right? Like, like, that's all, you remember back in the day, all we wanted was the fights on TV period. I mean, I remember the blackout period, right?

When we couldn't even watch pay-per-views. We couldn't even buy a pay-per-view. We had to go on the underground or Sherdog and talk about it and, you know, try to figure out who did what. And, you know, and then, I mean, right after that, it was what, like three, four times a year at best, we'd get a, you know, a big pay-per-view card. And, you know, we just couldn't wait. You know, we're dying of anticipation.

and then all we wanted was for it to be, you know, every weekend on the prime time. And then we get it every weekend on prime time. And now everybody's bitching about that. They're like, oh, this card sucks. It's like, all right. Well, do you want to go back to like, you know, 2005? I remember even when the sport was starting to get big, like when it was like the ultimate fighter come out. And I want to say it was like maybe it was like Randy and Chuck or like one of those fights around that time.

You couldn't watch the prelims. Yeah, you didn't get to watch prelims, yeah. They didn't have prelims. You didn't get to watch the prelims. Actually, I remember the first UFC fight that I went to. It was Couture versus Belfort, two. I didn't know that there was prelims. You know what I mean?

I mean, I wasn't like an educated fan that much either. But, you know, I was like on the underground and like reading about it. I didn't know there was prelims. Like everybody only talked about, you know, the top guys. And I got there. I was like, dude, the fucking fights started already. There's all right fights. And actually on the prelims was Nick Diaz.

I'm trying to remember who the fuck he fought, but he lost. And I remember because he was walking around the crowd after, and I met him. And he was like basically complaining about how he only gets half his pay. He was just really up. So he didn't care that he lost. It seemed like it might have been Carole. Did he lose to Caro? I think he did.

I think he did lose to Carole. Yeah, I think he was Carole Prizian. And I could be wrong on that. But maybe I have to check sometime to see. yeah and like Andrei Rolowski was sitting like you know a few rows from I was in like the nosebleeds you know and he was sitting like a few rows from me and it's like what an amazing experience you know but yeah my point is like I didn't even know there were fucking prelims I was just amazed that there were fights and you know a bunch people I'd never heard of. I think I told you this story before years ago Me and my friends used to go to like Not like Hooters

Like one of those restaurants It would show the pay-per-view Like BW3s whatever They would show the pay-per-views And at that point I had started working in MMA media And I would get results for the prelims And you know sometimes they would show a prelim on the pay-per-view

I 1,000% I 1,000% got free beers and free shit from people We're like, let's bet on this fight Let's I bet you I bet you this guy's gonna win by knockout and they were like, oh yeah, I'll buy your beer if he does and then I, because I already knew the results. Like, they didn't know it wasn't live. They're like, oh, let's fight with the prelims.

And I'd be like, oh, buy me a beer. Sure enough, they bought me a beer. And I was like, all right, awesome. They had no idea that was a prelim just getting aired on the pay-per-view. That's awesome. You remember they used to have swing fight too. Yeah, yeah. It may get on the paper view.

You may not. Yeah, you might be on pay-per-view. You might fight any time of night. Wasn't it John Fitch? He ended up, he warmed up, like, three or four times, ended up fighting after the main event. and he was like, what the fuck am I doing? Yeah, no, they used to literally call the swing bat.

Like you would get on if they had time. If you didn't have time, you wouldn't get on. I think they put you on after the main event, right? That was what happened to. Yeah, like, nobody's going to be there after the minute. They're going to be like, everybody's leaving and, you know, trying to get their drunk friend out of there. And they're like, wait, wait, what's this fight doing?

Yeah, no, they did. And that's what I said, like, I'm not defending the crappy cards. like, and I'm not going to sit there and say they're not crappy cards because like, I could look at a card and be like, man, I'm not like, there's nothing in here, but I'm not really excited about. But I just have to remind me, but you don't have to watch every card. Like, they're not telling you have to watch every card. Like, I don't, you know, I'm not.

And it's kind of become like we, and I think we're guilty of it too, you know, with you saying out. Like, there was a time when we're kind of reminiscing here. Back then, like, we'd love to watch fights. Like, we didn't care who the fuck it was, right? Especially if it had the UFC logo on it. I mean, we're like, dude, this is a fucking killer fight. I don't care.

These are the world's best Super Bowl of M.A. We've seen enough now. Right? I think most of, like, unless you're, I don't know, 12 years old, like we've seen enough fights. Like we get excited for the biggest best fights now. And, you know, again, we're guilty of falling into the drama too, right? When, you know, certain guys come out and they're talking shit and, you know, there's a level of drama there. like we're guilty of wanting to see that fight a little bit more.

Yeah. And let's be honest. We looked at 322 coming up in two weeks. Like I mentioned like that's a stat card. They can easily take one of those fights and headline a fight night card. They don't because they want you to tune in when it matters. Right now like they're still, you're still paying for it.

But obviously start next year you're just going to have to have a paramount plus subscription. But like they want you to tune in for the biggest moments. And that you know, they want you to tune in when they've got a 19,000 sold out arena, you know, title fight on the line. Like that's the fights of matters. Like, you remember Dana was at every single UFC event. He never missed a UFC event. Now, like, he's missing in action for, I would say, probably half the cards.

Like, he doesn't go to, like, and I'm not saying he should. I'm just saying, like, nature of the beast. He does, he's not going to go to every single event. Like, you know, so it's just the sport now. Because do they care if we watch Apex fights? You know, I wonder what they'll do after the Paramount deal. I mean, I don't know how many fights are contracted to have every. year, you know, if it's going to be worth it to them to keep doing the apex fights.

I imagine it will because it's, you know, it can't cost them hardly anything to be putting those fights on. No, and that's why I said, like, you really can't get too upset because, like, we know what they are. Like, at this point, you know what the apex cards are. Like, yes, we all kind of grown, like, oh, God, we're going back to the apex. But that's kind of where you're getting. You know what you're getting.

Like, you know, and you might get a couple cool knockouts. You might get a couple cool moments here and there. You might see a diamond in the rough. somebody who you don't know comes on and kind of storms and steals the show. Things like that guy from the Contender Series. Maybe you didn't watch a Contender Series that come in and have a great cool knockout or cool submission, something like that. And that's like, you know, that's the main thing in the card.

But yeah, I just, I'm not defending it because trust me, I have the same reaction when I look at a card. I'm like, oh, God, this is going to be a long night. I get it. I do. But I'm saying, this is my job. So I'm allowed to be like, yeah, God, all right, here we go. You don't have to watch every single card. Like enjoy your Saturday night.

Like, it'll be there. You can watch it later that night. You can watch it the next day. Like, I don't think anyone's going to cry that you had to wait 24 hours to see Gabriel Bonfim and Randy Brown. Like, you can watch it later and you'll be totally fine. Now, paper you use, like, you don't want to miss Islam McCachia and Jack Delah Madelaine. You want to see that live. You don't want to have the spoilers on Twitter.

You want to be able to watch it. You want to see as it happens. That's what they're, they're more concerned about that than they are about you tuning into watch Gabel Bonfee and Ray. I guess I'm that guy. I've seen enough fights where I'll probably watch that on Sunday morning too. Yeah. Yeah, but like, but yeah, because I remember like back in the day, like it's not about back in the day. Like, I remember when they used to have fights during the day and they would preempt it and they would show it at night.

So it was already pre-tapped. Like, I remember I avoided every. I was working that day and I avoided everything when Gabriel Gonzaga fought Mirko Krocop. And I can't remember where they fought at somewhere in Europe or something. I avoided the spoilers all damn day And then somehow I think it was like an email or something I got That literally told me the result right before I got home And I was like, damn it

I waited the whole day to see this And it was when Gonzaga knocked him out But you just have to wait Like they would just preempt the show Like they would just be it actually happened at 2 o'clock in the afternoon They wouldn't show it until 8 o'clock that night on Spike TV or whatever So like you just basically had to wait and watch the taped card So I'm just saying like we are definitely spoiled now

Where there's like 50 cards a year or whatever but I'm just saying you don't really need like I mean you can bitch because I bitch I'm not saying I don't bitch but I'm saying like just remember you don't have to watch every single card like you really don't yeah absolutely and I mean especially I mean the apex cards even if it's a great fight I mean it's not going to have the same kind of hype you know with no crowd there it's just not it just doesn't feel the same the walkouts are different the stair downs are different the cage is smaller yeah it's a tiny cage like I don't know why they did that I always wondered about that because I fought in it, and I thought it was just a regular octagon cage, and then, you know, I walk in there. I was like, what the fuck? Like, this is cool for me, though. You know, like, you say it's like the Super Bowl MMA, and you're right. Like, that's the way we always refer to it.

But, I mean, it's no different than any other sport. Like, not like BKFC has events where they're like the big events, the Mike Perry events, the, you know, those kind of events. They have a lot of other events that, like, do well and they have crowds, but they're not, you know, they're not saying it's like the biggest event ever, and, you know, title fights, all this kind of stuff. you look at any I mean like I said look at any other sport like the NFL NFL gets ratings for crazy ratings no matter what but like I said you're not watching the one in five team play the one

and six team or the say you know what you're you're watching the games that matter at that point unless you're just watching your team like I watch the bingles even though they're god awful it's no different like we just got I didn't know the way we almost got spoiled we're like oh we're going to see a great fight every weekend well maybe not so much anymore and that's you know And, you know, I'm like, if we get that stack pay-per-view every month, I can live with that. Like, I can live with a couple crappy cards here and there if I get to. And, like, next month, like, in November or next month, it's this month, we go from Islam O'Cacho, Jack Della Madelanah, Madelan, Valcii, Chon, Schochenko, all those fights.

And then the very next week, we got Armin Saruki and Dan Hooker, Billow, Mohamedi, and Meshado Gary. Like, come on, that's a great one-two combo right there. Yeah, that's great. And, you know, Rhonda Rousey will still find a way to bitch about it, I'm sure. All right, let's just talk about this. Rhonda did a big podcast with Burt Kreischer, comedian, and, you know, of course, she just said a lot of things that people kind of picked up on.

And I guess one of the two biggest things that stood out to me were her to recently talk about how, like, fans and media, abandoned fighters when they lose. And her phrase was, you're great, you're the best ever, then you lose, and you ain't shit, you never were shit. And she mentioned, like, Chuck Liddell, she mentioned Fador, she mentioned, and she literally said the only reason,

by the way, this is Rhonda, me. The only reason people plant their lips at the base of Khabib's cock is because he never lost. Now, I'm not saying there aren't there's reactionary fans, Matt. You know that. Well, I think she said because he retired, right? Yeah, because he retired. You're retired and never lost it. Yeah. You know as well as I do. There are fans like that in every sport. Football, basketball, baseball, you lose, you suck, you win, you're the greatest thing ever. That is sports. I'm not saying there aren't very vocal fans out there that definitely do that. They absolutely do.

Does the Anderson Silva loss for the first time got me a bit of Chris Wybin? He was never shit. I get it. You're going to have that like contingency of fans. But does it just strike you, Matt, that it feels like she's projecting on the way her career ended and how she got treated rather than, because like when Chuck Ladell walks into a building, people still go nuts because they love Chuck. Chuck Lell was a beloved guy. Did this career end on the best note? know he lost some fights and definitely shouldn't have done that third fight with tito but like

people still love him when he walks in the building people fucking freak out for chuckledale because chuckledo's one of those popular guys ever right like i i feel like this is ronda projecting on how she's perceived yeah there's definitely a little bit of that i'll tell you what man ronda you know she has the mentality of a champion though like like where where like she puts the chip on her shoulder herself, right? Like she has so much, like, I don't know, pin up anger or like, like, she doesn't have a hard time going to that dark place, right? And, and, you know, like, that's why she's such a competitor, right? And it's great for the competitiveness, but like, she's not competing

anymore. And at some point, we'd just like to see her, you know, go meditate, you know, take a DMT trip or fucking, like, you know what I mean? Like, do a yoga retreat. something and like you know just relax like like people don't hate you like we we I've said this before like we want to love her so bad like I think all the fans I mean I'm I'm kind of indifferent you know I think you know the most MMA people and media and stuff like like kind of indifferent right but I think the fans like they want to love her and she just she's like she is the best person of shooting herself in the foot that ever like she's just best foot shooter ever.

She, I think, like, did Rhonda get treated differently the way she acted? Yes. But that's on her own fault. Like, she shot herself in the foot. I always bring this up. Like, I remember watching Dominic Cruz lose to Cody Garbrandt, and that was a rivalry fight, lots of bad blood between them. He goes in there and gets, you know, pretty, you know, pretty dominated for five rounds,

loses his title. Goes to the post-fight press conference, and he absolutely handled like a champ. Like, you're just like, yeah. And guess what? Dominic Cruz's career ended on a couple of losses He always, he always faced... You know who else sounded like a champ was Connor when he lost to Nate?

Remember that first time? I just coincidentally seen... I know we always bring up Connor on the spot because that's what all the people always comment, right? But the, you know, I literally just the other day seeing the backstage post-fight interview with him. He handled it amazingly well. I don't think he lost a single fan that night.

I was at the first Nate. And I asked him a question because I remember I was at the Post-Fite conference and I said like, what do you feel like is next for you after this? And he was just like, you know, maybe I go back to featherway. Maybe I was like, I don't know, you know, regroup, but you know, it is what it is. You know, he faced his defeat, you know, and like, I'm not saying you can't be bitter about losing. Your ultimate competitors, of course you're going to be bitter and like kind of upset about losing. I get it. But I remember, like, I remember, like, I remember, like, to this credit, like, I remember backstage after C.

And punk got absolutely molly Watt by Mickey Gall. Like, absolutely. It was a, I mean, like, dude, you did not. And he didn't belong in there, if we're being honest. He goes to post-fite press conference, and I remember, like, I asked the question to made him cry because I said, what was your wife's reaction, like, watching? Because I know you said it was a big deal that she was here, and he, like, kind of broke down in tears. He's, like, kind of broken hard.

His wife had to watch him lose like that. Damn, why are you asking those questions, Dave? I know, right? I know. But, like, this is a guy who is, you know, like, this guy is built to be on the microphone, right? Like, that's what CM Punk does. He's trained to be on the microphone as a professional wrestler. He just had probably the worst, probably one of the worst experience of his life going out there,

just absolutely, his dream got crushed in like two minutes, Mickey Gall went out there and absolutely demolished him. He still went back there, still faced the music, still answered the question. I understand. You get an injury. You got to go to the hospital. I don't expect every losing fighter to do that. But like, at some point you have to address it.

And that's what people are going to move on from. They're like, oh, man, it sucks you lost, but you faced your demons. You faced the loss and you moved on. Ronda, to this day, I don't think I've ever heard her. I don't, honestly, like, I've heard her address to hospital. Holly Holme fight from the perspective of she had concussions. Now she's talked about that. I don't think I've ever once heard her mention Amanda Nunes's name, ever.

Like that was her last loss. She didn't lose to Holly and retire. She lost to Amanda in a minute or whatever. I don't think I've ever heard her utter the words Amanda Nunes, ever. I can remember her. Look, again, I know it's crazy to say, but she has that mindset that she is invincible and she believes in herself so much. and she believes the world's against her.

And look, all that, that ship on the shoulder stuff, that's what helped her be a champion in judo and in MMA. And you got to, you know, so I can understand where her mentality is, is all I'm saying with that. Like, I get it. And, you know, if you're training someone, like, that's one of the mentality that you would be acceptable, right? You would accept it.

You'd be like, okay, we can deal with this, right? you know but also when you're kind of at the level of stardom as she was at like didn't didn't they do some fucking PR training for her like like did she not have a fucking PR person or like someone in her corner just being like yo like say something nice like just one nice thing and like they don't talk shit about Joe Rogan like Joe Rogan's the most loved fucking person maybe in the country like just like just be on his side. like be cool like you might get on his podcast you know like that'd be good for you and maybe when you go on his podcast like say some smart shit you know but but like what are they doing with her like again

she just i've never seen someone shoot themselves in the foot so much like uh i'll go back to what i said before man like we want to love her and she just shoots herself over and over and over again in the foot what you said and i think you're right like she carries a champion's been mentality and I agree with that. Like you gotta have that like mind of a warrior to say like, I'm invincible. Now, the reality is she's done competing.

So like it just feels like there's no reflection. And when you talk about that, I feel like she carries a victim's mentality. At this point, yeah, at this point. Yeah. Yeah,

I think that, yeah, that's a good point because I think that a champion's mentality of I'm invincible and no one could touch me. And, you know, a lot of times the champions will have this mentality of like, you know,

It's not a victim mentality, but, you know, it's not their fault that they lost. Like, they're so good. There's no way that they fucked up. You know, you've seen this in champions before. Like, there's no way I fucked up. Like, this was just a bump in the road or, you know, just had a bad, whatever fuck it was, right? And that, again, every champion is different, too. This is all general statements.

But there's people that have that mentality. And that's what I said. Like, she needs to go to fucking, like, takes a fucking mushroom. or something like open your fucking mind this this isn't fucking rocket science like like no one fucking hate you no one dislikes you no one abandon you like she could be every she could be twice the start as she was now like i guarantee she could be in movies and i mean she went to w w she could be in movies like she could have a fucking the biggest podcast around right like i mean she's a pretty girl i mean she least like kind of cleans up nice i think you know she can

look pretty. You know, she's well-spoken. She just says the fucking most ridiculous shit ever. And when I say victim's mentality, what I mean by that is like, she still can't accept, I think, this is my opinion. She still can't accept the way her career ended. She's never accepted it. And so, like you mentioned, Connor, I know, Connor, I know, Connor.

Connor's a great example that. Connor, when he's lost, he's faced a defeat. Now, it may last for two weeks, and then he comes back and, oh, it was this. I lost it. Yeah, but the humbleness in that moment, which is when it matters most, he showed it. When he lost to Nate, when he lost to, you know, Khabi. And I think the stuff like Connor says two weeks after is like PR, right? Like he's trying to keep yourself relevant in his name. I think deep inside, like, you know, he knows the truth, right? Yeah, but like he and and like, you know, like, and even like somebody like John Jones who's never faced defeat. Like even he was honest enough to say like, it's my fault that the Gustavson fight was as close as it was.

didn't fucking take it seriously. I fucked around, almost lost. And, like, I came very close to losing, and I knew better. But when it mattered most, when he was fighting, like, Daniel Cormier, even though he was apparently doing Coke three weeks before, whatever, but, like, he knew he couldn't lose that fight. Like, he knew that was a fight. He absolutely could not lose anyone out there, and, you know, pretty much dominated Cormier

both times. And second time, I know it got overturned or whatever, but still. But, like, it's not that you lose and people abandon you, is that you lose and never face it. She has never, like, I'm telling, like, when she lost to Holly, she disappeared on face the earth for basically a year. Didn't do any interviews, didn't talk to anybody, didn't do any social posts, nothing, just disappeared, never faced him using for that loss. And then when she had to do Amanda Nunes fight to the UFC made the huge mistake of like, oh no, you don't have to do any media, you don't have to answer any questions. She literally just runs into the way in, does the way in, bolts out of there, does the face off.

And then 24 hours later gets her ass absolutely handed her by Amanda Nunes, bolts out of the arena again. And we never hear from her again. And then we don't see her again for like six months or whatever when she pops up in WWE. And then all the interviews she does now are these, I'm not saying like Burke Kreischer doesn't have a bigger platform than me. And Burke Kreisher is a big comedian. And he's a famous guy. I get it. You know what I mean?

But like, Burke Kreisher isn't going to push her in that interview and say, well, hold on now. Like you lost to a man to do this. Have you ever addressed that loss? Have you ever said like what, you know, what went wrong or like, you know, what happened? And even with the Holly Holme found, I said this when her biography came. out. She kept talking about the concussion, and she fell down a flight of steps before the fight, and she just wanted to fight. I sympathized with all that. I do. But at no point, and I'm bringing this up. I know I'm repeat myself from what we said, whatever it was a year ago. At no point did she ever say, Holly Holm did a great job. Holly Holm had made that head kick. She did a great job. I heard concussion. I fell down and a flight of stairs. I shouldn't have taken that fight. I heard all that. I didn't hear any like congrats to Holly. Great job, Holly Holm. I've never once heard her mention the name of Amanda Nunesis. That's what I talk about. a victim's mentality where it's like it's oh woe is me it's oh it's poor me at no point does she say great job amanda great job holly they were champions good job you know what it was your night

whatever whatever generic sports say you want to say she's never done that and she's just never really faced the music on any of that something that's all anyone wants like we don't you don't need to apologize certainly not you don't need to apologize for a bad night deal just guess what everyone has that. Like no one, I mean, John Jones, yes, I know it could be retired and undefeated, but like even him, like you could say like he had a couple of bad nights at the office where he had some closer fights or whatever.

You have to face the music on that. And if you face the music and you're just honest and open about it, people are going to still love you. People are still going to adore you. Look at, like I said, yes, Connor has his haters, but Connor's also a massive massive star. Of course he's going to have a lot of haters and obviously he does a lot of shit outside the sport that people probably hate him for, and I understand.

But he also still has a lot of huge fan base because people love that personality. He doesn't shy away from it. He's out in the public constantly. Rhonda never did. And like I said, to this day, she's never faced the music for those losses. And now it's like, you weren't shit, you never were shit. I think she's projecting.

Like, I'm not saying that people don't say that. Yes. I mean, you're totally right. And like, so I actually agree with her a little bit. I don't think she worded it well, but the part on Khabib. I actually agree with her a little bit on that. Like, I do think he's rated a little bit. higher and we just can't say because he retired right i mean sure i think he's maybe a little bit

you know i hate to say overrated but you know you can't put him up there with the top five greats i just can't put him up there with those right because he retired i think he could have been um but then even when you look at you know the top five grates or you could probably go down like the whole top 10 list i mean you got like dj gsp anderson fadore john jones um all of those guys have losses and every single one of those guys if they walk into a UFC the crowd is going to blow up for him

yeah like where where's everybody turning on these people or you know she mentioned like Chuck Lidale what the fuck are you talking about Chuck Lidale people fucking adore Chuck Lidale yeah like like she's making these opinions living under a rock I think

like see I'm saying it again, she's projecting. She's taking what people are doing to her and saying it happens to everybody. It doesn't happen to everybody. I'm not saying there aren't that small group of people who are reactionary and, oh, you lost, you suck, you're never good. I get it. There are those people, absolutely.

But that's every sport. Like, you lose a football game. Your quarterback sucks. It was never good. He threw three interceptions. He's terrible. That's sports. That's not UFC.

That's not unique to UFC. And when she compares to the WWE, like, oh, they revere their legends. Well, guess what? In WWE, they tell you who is winning and losing. You don't get to, you know, they're like, hey, this guy is a star, people love him, we're going to make sure he wins. That's different to UFC. It doesn't work out that way. Like, I'm sure in an ideal world, George St. Pierre, good, good looking, clean cut, you know, well-loved guy would have never lost.

But guess what he did? He lost a couple times. Does that mean people don't love George St. Pierre? No, no, he's still one of the most beloved people in this sport. It just doesn't work like that. And then, you know, I'm sure we'll be addressing her comments on Rogan, too. And look, you know, I don't totally, I actually get where she's coming from with Rogan, right? Because, like, he's not a fighter, you know?

Neither's John Anick. And, you know, like, so I actually kind of get that part. I don't know why she was hating on Joe Rogan, though. And Joe Rogan is extremely knowledgeable. You know, the fact that he never stepped foot in the cage, you know, that doesn't make him unknowledgeable. Now, I do believe it is less knowledgeable than someone who has, but that's, I don't know, it's so strange to me.

Like, that's not the guy to call out, you know? I've heard, and I'm not going to name names. I know you know this, Matt, because you heard it too. Like, you hear some fighters talk about fighting, and you're like, are we talking about the same sport? Like, what are you talking about? I'm not saying it doesn't have been. When we talk about fights, we talk about fighter subjects,

one of the reasons I absolutely love doing this podcast, because I have a literal legend sitting in front of me, spent 15 years of the EOCs fought at the absolute highest levels of the sport, so I can defer to you on a lot of this because you are a fucking legend of being a fighter. I didn't. I always defer to you in that. But that doesn't mean I don't know the sport.

It doesn't mean I can't understand the sport. Yes, I do defer to you. And I think Rogan does too. Like when Rogan is doing commentary, he defers to Kormier a lot. Like, he deferred. But that doesn't mean he doesn't know the sport. Like, it doesn't mean he doesn't know the sport, though. Like, Joe, listen, you don't have to.

love Joe Rogan's commentary. Everyone's got their own, like, taste when it comes to commentary. I understand that. But you can't sit there and tell me he's not knowledgeable. I mean, the guy's been around the sport for that many years, called thousands of fights. He does jiu-jitsu. I mean, trains. You can't say he doesn't know the sport.

I mean, that's ridiculous. He's easily, like, one of the most articulate, well-spoken people in the world. I mean, it's why he has the biggest podcast in the world, right? I mean, and there's also, like, when you are a fighter, like you said, you've heard a million fighters talk about fighting, and it's like they don't know a single thing.

A lot of times the success can be the worst thing that happens to you because you think that's the way now, like because you had success that one time. And I've seen it in the gym a million times. These guys, you know, especially the guys that like don't train hard and then they go win, and they're like, well, why should I train? Like, I just beat that guy's ass and didn't train one day. Why should I go train now? and success could be the ultimate constraint to success sometimes.

Yeah. And that's what happens with fighters a lot, right? Like their ability to actually understand deeply the sport or look beyond, you know, the surface of just simply winning and losing, you know, it gets clouded by their own personal bias in judgment. And like even, even fighters. writers. Ronda Rousey is legitimately one of the greatest women's fighters of all time. Is she the goat? I don't think so. She thinks she thinks she is. Sure, she can say that though. I don't think she's wrong and thinking she is. She's in that conversation. She's not for me, but that's fine. But like. Most iconic. But let's go deeper than that. Like if I was going to have a conversation with a fire, I was going to pick a fighter's brain about striking. I wanted to know the art of striking. Ronda would be like at the bottom of that fucking list of people I would reach out to about striking. She's allegedly. She's a multi-time defending UFC champion.

But if I was going to be like, I need to know the art of striking. I would reach out to Anderson Silva. I would reach out to Ameriq Crow Cop. I would reach out to like the highest levels of Matt Brown, the guys who know striking. I wouldn't reach out to Rhonda. Like that's what I'm saying. Like there's even levels to that. Like, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And if you wanted to reach out about judo, you probably hit up Ronda. Yeah. Like that's what I'm saying. Or like how to arm bar someone. Like her laughing off as saying Joe Rogan's a fan with a with an audience That's that's that's dumb I get where she's coming from though

I don't know I don't actually call it dumb I think he's a little bit of hating I wouldn't go as far as calling it dumb just because like I mean she's kind of right Like he only has an opinion Right until you've done something like all of your All of your beliefs are opinions right Like until you've actually done it right You can't say it's a fact until you've actually done it

So I get the point where she's come from. But again, it's like for one, you're attacking Joe Rogan, which is just the last dude that you want is your enemy, you know, which I mean, I don't think he's going to, he doesn't give a fuck, I'm sure. But, you know, like you don't want, like, to turn his crowd away, like the biggest crowd in America. And to disrespect him, it just doesn't make sense either, right?

Like, I think he could say it. And, or she could say, again, like, where's her fucking PR person? Like, she could say this shit in a very PC way, right? Like, like I just said it, right? Like, he, okay, he has great opinions, but their opinions. Like, Daniel Cormier brings facts because he's been in there and he can say factually, this is what I did. This is what I can say factually works and doesn't work.

And that's why Joe defers to him. Right? But it's like, he has, like, he's. been immersed enough in the sport and all facets of the sport like all facets of the sport with all facets of fighters to have

a fucking very educated opinion and it almost feels like with Rhonda that like every time she decides to go like she did a media tour for her biography now she's doing a media tour for like this comic book graphic novel she's putting out there I've yet to hear an interview

where I come out on the other side saying, man, Ronda really, like, turn me around. Rhonda, like, really, every single time I talk about, every time I see an interview with her, it's like she says something where it's like, why would you say that? Can you just imagine, like, I just imagine, is she still married to Travis Brown? Yeah, they're still married, yeah.

Like, what is it got to, it's got to be insufferable living with her. Like, you didn't take out the trash one day? Like, but you're talking about shooting yourself in the foot. Like, that's exactly it. Like, like, there is a world where Ronda does this PR tour for her book and now her graphic novel where she comes on the other side and she's golden like everyone loves her again like it was oh my god ronda what you know you were the legend you were the great endeavor you were this you were that every time she talks she does these

interviews like i said she comes on the other side of people disliking her more like you know what mean like there's never been a moment where i'm like man she really turned people around like no i've yet to hear like i said i've yet to hear her address the honestly again where's the fucking PR person that's like, yo, Rhonda, maybe you should just sit this one out. Like, stay at home. Like, how about no media tour for this or we'll just take some pictures and just go sign some autographs?

Like, you don't really have to speak at this one, you know? She just, like, she shoots herself with the footage, she said, and she just keeps digging a deeper hole. Like, you know what I mean? Like, she never, like, she had such an opportunity to turn people around and make

them be like, we love you for this, Rhonda. You know what I mean? Like, like I said, That's why I said we want to love her. You think about the icons of the sport who have dealt with losses. And like I'm not saying, like I said, I know there are people who turn on people. That happens in every sport, though. But like you said, like she mentioned Chuck Liddell. She mentioned Randy.

I think she mentioned Randy. I care who all the names Fador. Like, who doesn't still say Fador is the greatest heavyweight of all time? Where's the second greatest heavyweight of all time? Who doesn't say? Who says he wasn't shit? You never worse? whoever says about Fador?

Where did that come from? And if Fador walks into a room, who doesn't fucking bow down? Oh, yeah. And I said this on Twitter. Like, Mirko Krokov had a god-awful run in the UFC. Like, he was terrible in the UFC. He's still one of my all-time favorites

because I watched him in pride and holy shit, that man just wrecked people. I love Mirko Kroko. Exactly the same with him. Like, when he walks in a room and he says, all rise. I mean, does everyone not rise up? Like, everyone will stand the fuck up and kiss his hand and bring him flowers.

Like, whatever the fuck. Like, we'll do exactly as you're told when Crow Crop walks in the room. Yeah. I think, like I said, I think it's because she doesn't get that. Right, exactly. I mean, you set a spot on. It's projecting. Yeah.

She didn't have the end of her career that she wanted and now she's projecting. And I think it's been doubled down because, A, the way she handled it when she lost, which was the worst way ever, like just disappearing and never addressing it. And now here we are almost 10 years later. Matt, 2016. That was her last fight. She still never addressed it. She has still never honestly addressed either of those fights and said

like, man, Holly Holm is just a better person that night. Or old man, Amanda Nunes was a better person that night. Yeah, it's a tragedy, man. I hope she finds peace, you know. I think that's the one thing we could kind of say. I hope she finds peace in her life and she accepts the way things are and can just, I'm being dead serious.

She needs to go to a fucking mushroom trip or Iowa. Huska trip or whatever, you know, frog disease, you know, weird shit that these motherfuckers are doing these days. Like, go live with some fucking monks or something. Like, like this shit, like, all you're doing is going in a cage and beating each other up for money

and for others' entertainment. Like, it's not that fucking serious. Yeah, like, Matt, like, and I'm putting this back on you, like, did you have losses in your career? Sure. But do people still love and respect and honor Matt Brown constantly? Yeah. It's like, when you got shown at that, when you got shown at that,

Chicago show. People lost their show. Oh, Matt Brown. Because guess what? Like, you were a beloved fighter. You had beloved fights. You put on crazy insane shows. And guess what? You still talk about them to this day. And it still comes up. Like, oh, we were just talking about the piece of L-file, like, two weeks ago. Like, do we still

have a told her story? She's just, it's like, she's like allergic to positivity. Like, she's, like, allergic to like, you know, like, and the thing she says, it's almost like she's going out of her way to piss people off. Like you said, like Joe Rogan. I'm not saying Joe Rogan's the smartest guy in the universe.

There's probably a pretty good argument. He says some dumb things sometimes. I understand that. But, like, saying that he doesn't know anything and he's like, doesn't have any knowledge on the sport. I'm like, oh, like, what are you gaining from that, Ronda? Like, what are you really gaining from that? And, like, you know, and then, like, talking about how, like,

everyone turns on fighters and then lose. It's just not true. I'm not saying there aren't, there are people who turn on everybody. That's, that's sports. But, like, like you said, Chuck L walks in an arena. People lose their shit. You know, Fader walks in a arena. arena. People lose their shit. I think Rhonda is pissed off because she walks in the arena,

she gets booed or she thinks she's going to get booed. Yeah, like, I don't even know if she would get booed still, right? I don't know. I don't know either. I haven't seen her an arena, but, I mean, I think it would depend on the arena. I think there might be a mix or there'd be some of each. And yeah, I mean, I don't know where it's all coming from. But I think she just needs help, man. Like, you know, needs to find some peace in her life, man, because I said, this is all dumb shit we're doing, man. It's not that big of a deal. And, you know, we're just having fun.

Like, I think, I think it's like, I think it's like, we all want to leave like some kind of legacy, right? Like, that's, you know, because it's not about just the things you've done, but it's like, what, how did you affect people? And what did you inspire or, or, you know, whatever, right? but like if it seems like psychologically like she's still caught up in that moment when she was fighting and she's like it's fucking bullshit I should have won this shit you know what I mean and like I mean I can sympathize with that feeling right because I can go back to some of own fights I lost and I'm like dude like I did the stupidest fucking thing like you know or like I know I shouldn't have took in that fight I know that you know that you know I've

fucking I was sick or you know I had I had a broken rib in one fight one time you know what I mean and like you're like bro like what the fuck was I even thinking you know and and you get hate after the fight right you know people say you suck that's a fact but then you know a few years later or even months really but a few years later like look that's the past what can I do now to you know move onwards and upwards how can I keep you you know, getting better, you know, on to the next thing. And it's like she's still stuck in that moment. Yeah.

Right? Because, you know, with that highly emotional moment of losing. And it's a devastating, traumatic thing. Don't get me wrong. And it takes a strong mind to get through it. But at some point, that's, I'll say it for the hundred time. Like, go do a fucking mushroom trip and like, get the fuck over this shit. Because, you know, it's in the past.

Like, go. do some great things and inspire some new people because you're going to die just like me one day and people are going to remember something about you right now the way that your your road is going Rhonda what people are going to

remember is that you're a fucking sore loser and a fucking bitch yeah that's what and that's almost feels like she just can't deal with losing you know and I get it I'm not saying I've never been there I'm here's me saying I admit I've never been I know it sucks I've been around five years after losses

and man, it breaks my heart, man. It breaks my heart when you see them walk out with their families. It's a fucking heartbreaking thing. It is. But you move on. You know, like everyone deals with it, but you move on. I'm not saying you have to love it. I'm not saying you have to be like, oh, man, I'm so glad I lost that fight.

But move on. You know what I mean? I've talked to Yanei on Jacek, who was one of the greatest women's fighters of all time. I'm sure she wishes her career didn't end with Zhang Wei, spinning backfisting her and knocking her on, and that's her last fight. But guess what? She still did so many amazing things. and like she's revered in that way.

You know what I mean? She's just, you know, and Yowanna's never hidden from that fact. Like she's never hidden from that moment. And we can talk about the Carlos Barzafide and the, and the Jessica Androche fight, all the great things she did during her career. Yeah, she had a loss in there and it sucks and is what it is. But she's moved on. And guess what?

Yonna is beloved. Who doesn't love Yowana when she goes on the screen? You'll love Yuana. Her career didn't end on the high note. It ended on a spinning back kiss knockout loss. People still love her. Why? Because she's not afraid to face it. I don't think Rhonda has ever accepted losing.

I really don't think she's ever. I'm actually shocked. She doesn't still say, like, man, I should have won the gold medal in the Olympics. Right, right. Yeah. Again, I hope she finds peace, man. Yeah. Real quick before we get out of here, Matt, and maybe by the time this podcast drop,

it'll already be fixed. So maybe we're going to be talking about something after the fact. But I'm sure you saw this news over the weekend. Jake Paul's fighting Tank Davis in two weeks time. I mean, now there's rumors that maybe Tank Davis isn't going to be fighting it two weeks time because there was a new lawsuit filed against him with pretty heinous domestic violence allegations. And I'm not saying they're true or false, but obviously Tank has a history of this. He's been arrested and has some other issues with this.

Yeah, what were the allegations? Because I knew their allegations. You're saying they're pretty heinous. I didn't know all that. Yeah, like I guess, like the allegation is he went to his ex-girlfriend's workplace and, like, dragged her in the back and smacked her around and, like, you know, basically held her in a room, wouldn't let her go. so obviously she's like, you know, kidnapping, that kind of thing. And, you know, choked her and, you know, did some nasty shit to her. Now, no criminal charges have ever been filed, but there is a civil lawsuit ongoing.

And I guess they said they did, they did, like the police are involved in investigating, but like, you know, it was a private encounter at, like, a club or something. But we also know tank's history. He's had arrest before for domestic violence and, you know, whatever. And now, like, they're talking about, like, running Nate Diaz rematch, and they're talking about maybe in Ghanu, which I mean, I would have way more interested in Gano and Jake Paul done ever would. Tank Davis and Jake Paul. That actually might get me excited for a Jake Paul fight if we fought in Gano.

But like, this just feels like a side show that just went off the road. Like, I didn't have interest in this before. I still don't really have interest in it. And now I'm like, all right, well, I don't really care. Like, I'm not going to feel bad for you because you decide to promote with a guy who's obviously had some legal issues. And now you're saying because this came out, you're considering, you know, like, it just, it's so dumb. Like, this is, this is the dumbest fight ever, Matt.

It really was. Well, first can we, uh, stop and say a prayer that Jake Paul and Nangano fight happens? Oh, my God. I would actually get excited for that one. Dear baby Jesus. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that'd be great. And also, you know, we should stop and say, you know, I hope Tang Davis gets his shit together, you know, quits beating up women, you know. I mean, I know all the dudes can relate to this, you know, like, like women would drive you up the goddamn wall.

You know, like you got to fucking control yourself, man. You're not allowed to hit him, all right? Yeah, but it's just like, I don't, I don't feel sympathy for Jake Paul in this situation at all because it's like, dude. No, I mean, he's putting on a circus fights. Like, what do you want? Yeah, you knew what you were getting into The guy who's got this history And you're accepting that now that these allegations

And to me it almost feels like they're doing the PR thing Where it's like, oh yeah, we're investigating Okay, like what I thought they were going to get a Ryan Garcia Well, they were talking about that But I guess Golden Boy already put the Knicks on that Because like they said they're like They're already working on a fire for Ryan or whatever And I don't think Oscar would sign off on Ryan

Fighting Jake because it's his promoter or whatever So Yeah, they should sign off on that though I mean, I'm sure they could work out some kind of deal. I mean, like, the only positive that comes out of this thing is that they actually did the Angano fight. Then I would actually be excited to watch Jake Paul fight. Like, that's an actual fight. Like, that's a legit fight.

But like Nate Diaz running it back with, I love Nate. Nate's awesome. Like, I look at what interest do I have in one? I didn't have interest in fighting Tank Davis. I really don't have an interest in watching him running back with Nate Diaz. Yeah. I don't know where anybody would be interested in that. so but

look if he fights in gano you got to get props right like you got to get props where props are due win or lose you got to give him props for that there's no way that's real though right there's no way he's actually going to fight fucking in gano right

I don't think so either I think it's good to like PR like he's looking at he's also looking at anything Joshua he's looking at this guy and that guy he didn't fighting fucking tank davis so yeah he probably he probably sent in gano a contract

like, hey, we'll give you $100K if you come fight the pro. Just knowing like he's going to say no. Yeah, like I've said this before and I'll say it again. Like, I've just come to accept what Jake Paul is and what Jake Paul is as a side show. Yeah, of course it is. Yeah, which is cool, you know, like it's fine, I think. And I'm fine with side show fights. I don't really have interested in a guy who weighs 200 pounds fighting a guy who weighs 135 pounds.

That really doesn't do much for me. I don't really have interested watching that kind of fight. See, I still think Tank would beat him, though. Maybe, maybe, but like, I just don't have a lot of interest in that like that. It's just like there are other freak show fights you could do that would be, you know, like, even the Tyson fight as ridiculous as that was. I was like, well, at least Tyson was a heavyweight. Like, he's 60 years old, but sure, why not? But, like, I know who Jake Paul is at this point, but like, you already knew who you were getting into business with with Tank Davis.

Why are you letting, like, I don't think it's, I don't think it's Jake Paul. I think it's probably being like, whoa, like, we don't want to promote a guy who's, like, in the middle of a domestic. violence allegations. Like they got stockholders they got to report to. And there's going to be somebody who owns a shitload of Netflix stock to be like, I'm not paying for this shit. I'm not paying for a guy who's good. You know what I mean?

Like, I don't think it's them at all. I mean, they just go on with the fight. I think it's Netflix who's like, uh, I don't know if this is a great idea that we should be promoting a guy two weeks after he gets hit with the lawsuit for kidnapping and punching his girlfriend or whatever. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. That makes sense.

But the idea is probably the. mostly interesting person for him to fight really because like we kind of know what's going to happen right and we saw it it already happened no right that's why i mean we kind of know what's going to happen um man like who would be cool for him to fight like i i mean he got him that'd be fucking awesome but that's like i'm just trying to like think of even other names like maybe like darren till maybe or something yeah i mean maybe that like they could like darren has looked good he's that a couple he's got real power and he's actually a round Jake size or maybe that would be interesting and he's a good boxer he is he is he is a good boxer he knocked luke rockold in the

middle of the next year so i mean he's yeah he's got good power i like darren i think that would be interesting but like and gondon is the one and i think you're right it's probably like hey let's let's get some lip service here and say we're signing we're thinking about engad it like the choices are nate dyes and engone it how the fuck does that happen right yeah i don't know gotta love Jake man it's always interesting right like if he's

he's an expert of keeping himself in the news right and and keeping people like he doesn't matter who the fucking fights we're gonna watch bro we don't but it feels like the interest is is lessening because like the Tyson fight was huge but that was because of Tyson

that's not necessarily with Jake Paul that was huge huge there's no way to go up from that the Chavez fight bombed hard. Like no one watched that fight because it was, it was just terrible. And yes, like part of this is the freak show aspect of Tank Davis is a pretty decent

size star. Jake Paul's a pretty decent size star as he put him together. But like, I interviewed Chris Wyman last week and I was like, I'm actually way more than Chris Wyman, Aters of Silva boxing. I'm fucking Tank Davis and Jake Paul. Like, at least these are two legends and guys who fought each other.

And it's kind of fun because they're, you know, one guy's like 42, the other guy's 50, like whatever. But I don't, I don't really. Hey, Chris Wyman fighting Jake Paul would be cool. Yeah, I mean, but I mean, like when Anderson fought Jake, I was interested because Jake, like, Anderson's a legit boxer. Yeah, yeah. And was around the same size, maybe a little bit under Jake Paul, but not, not.

He's just, what, 48? Yeah, but Anderson looked good. Like, Anderson still looked good. And you know what? He did well in that fight. He had that one knockdown. I think that was really the difference in the fight. He got knocked down what it was, like, the seventh round.

And that was really the big difference in that fight. But, like, Anderson didn't make a bad accounting for himself against Jake Paul. And that was a fun fight because, like, Jake Paul was going against. somebody legit and round around his own size. The one time he fought a professional boxer around his same size is the one time he lost. When he fought Tommy Fury. I always forget about that. And Tommy Fury is not good either, by the way.

Man, has he even fought since then? I think he fought like one time and he won against some random dude in like Romania or some shit. Of course. Yeah. No, he did. He did fight KSI. Remember that he had that KSI fight and he won that fight? Yeah, he fought KSI won like a split decision.

It was terrible. Oh, K.S. I beat him. No, no, no. Tommy Fury beat him, but it was a bad fight. I mean, Tommy Fury is not very good either. So it's like, what do we really get now of this? But like, Ingano, I would actually get up for the Ingano fight. That would be interesting. Yeah, everybody would.

Like, Engano, even if, if, look, Ingano should do everything he can do to try to make that fight happen. Because that puts his name huge back in the spotlight again. Right? He hasn't done anything. lately right like when he fought tyson it was kind of a big thing when he fought joshua it was big but after that it dropped off because joshua just you know mauled him quickly after it dropped off and you know he fought uh what ferrero or what was his name yeah yeah he never rara ferrari

like he hasn't really done anything since now i'm sure he said you know like he's got enough money for you know him and his grandkids and all but if he wants to be back in the spotlight like I think it's worth him taking a pay cut here, you know, to pump this fight up. Let Jake make his extra millions and go in there and fucking blast him into the third row. And, you know, and now your next pay-per-view is going to be or next fight's going to be way more meaningful. Go out and knock out Jake Paul and then you can still go box Deonté Wilder. I know that's probably the one's been talking about. But like, dude, get that fight.

Because guess what? I'm actually interested in that. I would watch Inganu and Jake Paul. Like, I'm going to watch. I think that would be a huge, huge fight. I don't know. I could be wrong,

but I think it could be maybe not Tyson level, but like it'd be, I bet it'd be pushing close to that because everybody wants to see Jake lose. And if, and if he somehow gets past in Gano, I mean, all right, well,

he gets his props now, right? Like, okay, you did it. Like, I could see, like you said,

like Tank Davis is beating Jake, but I don't think he's going to not. Jake out just because the size difference is so big like you know like so big yeah Mayweather clocked Logan a couple good times I know I know Mayweather wasn't known for knockout power at the end of his career but like he clocked him a couple good times you just can't it's hard to like it's just hard to put that kind of power on a guy that's got got you by 60 pounds or whatever like it's just hard to do that that's just that's just physics like it's just hard to generate the kind of 40 pounds yeah it'd be knock out like and

giving up like eight inches like you're you're swinging up and yes like you're you're you could knock out a guy that big, but Jake Paul's not terrible. He's not like a completely, you know, unknown boxer. He's actually trains. Uh,

tank might win, but he's probably, I would say the likelihood of him knocking Jake out is pretty small. Like, that's like, I think he could get him with a body shot. Maybe, maybe.

But even then, it's like, you're just so much bigger. It's just like, you know, like he can piece him up because he's a smaller, faster boxer, but like power wise even Tank Davis is like,

dude, going up like, because he's like, like, tank Davis is like 135, isn't he? Yeah, yeah.

That's seven, That's 65 pounds. Like Jake's 200. I thought Jake was like 210. Yeah. That's like 75, 80 pounds. Like that's ridiculous. Like, come on.

It's ridiculous. But, but Tank is fast and smooth and slick, bro. I think he could catch him with a body shot. But Inganu? Inganu? Well, could legitimately knock Jake's head to the middle of next year.

Absolutely. And he would. But, you know, there's no way that, you know, they're pumping it out there. that they're trying to get in Ghana,

but you know that they're going to be like, you got to make 220, you know, some shit that's unreal, right? Like, you know, we'll give you $100 million,

but you got to make $220. And he's going to be like, what am I supposed to do? Cut my fucking leg off, you know? What do you think would happen if they fought? If Jake fought in Ghanau? Just your honor.

I mean, I don't think there's any question that got to knock him through the ropes. I mean, I think it would be brutal knockout. I mean, I think like Jake could probably last a round or two. but, you know, it's only going to take one.

I mean, again, you're just talking about that size difference. And Nagano actually knows out of box. I mean, he's obviously not a Joshua level. But, you know, I think it'd probably be a pretty sloppy match for a minute. And then, you know, it'd probably be Jake trying to hang on him, right? And, you know, pop a shot and grab them up real quick. But Ngano is gigantic and just a fucking beast, man. Like, it's so fucking hard.

I'm not excusing his loss Anthony Joshua, but you got to remember, like, at his best, Anthony Joshua legitimately look like the best heavyweight in the sport. Now, his ability to do that consistently never happened. He was able to do one fight, and then the next fight he looked like ass again. But at his absolute peak, and after what happened to Tyson Fury, there was no way Anthony Joshua was not going to go into that fight.

And his absolute Pee, he was not going to get Tyson Fury where he got knocked down and ended up winning like a really close 12-round decision. And we can all sit here and say Tyson probably didn't train for that fight, didn't really take it seriously. But the results are result. He got knocked down the third round and he almost lost a decision to a guy who'd never boxed before. You know Anthony Josh was like, I cannot let that happen to me. And once he heard him once, it was pretty much over. But Francis is not bad. He's not a bad boxer and he's got nuclear power. And he's big. He's a legit heavyweight. Like, dude, like, Jake hasn't knocked anyone out in the

how long? Outside those two bums he fought a couple years ago, he just fought these two random dudes that knocked him out. He hasn't had to knock out in like three years or whatever. Like that was the last, like, who was the last? Mike Perry, he beat him. He didn't knock Mike Perry out. He just kind of beat him up and stopped the fight and, you know,

knocked him down like four times. And Mike Perry's a welterweight. But I think that's the last guy he finished. You need to knock him out. He just kind of like beat on him. Yeah, no way this fight happens. No possible way. But if it does, I will even buy that paper.

I won't even stream. motherfucker I'll buy it. Yeah, like that would get me legitimately. You fight Inganu, there's a legit chance you're catching Jake's head in the third row. Like, that's how legitimate that fight is. So, yeah, if you're trying to get me interested in Gano all fucking day,

I would get excited for that fight. And we know it's not going to happen. No, it's not going to is. Nate Diaz, here you go, buddy. Probably going to be Nate. Yeah, it's probably hit. And after Nate, I'm sure you saw the news, Nate and Mazurol Sue in that company

that, like, didn't pay them for their fight. So probably could use the payday on top of that. You know, Brian are the worst thing for Nate to get a payday to go out there and fight Jake again. And, you know, I'm sure it'll be a 10-round fight that ends with a decision because, you know, that's pretty much what's probably going to happen. But we can – fingers crossed. Make some money. Biggs crossed.

Ingan. In God. Fingers crossed, bro. Oh, man. All right. We're going to get out of here. Obviously, next week, Matt, we finally get to talk about some big fights because we're going to be talking about Islam and Jack Delamadelina. I am so excited for that.

That's – man, what a match up that is. That is just such a great fight. and we're going to get to talk about that. And everyone talking about Kabib, man. I'll tell you what, Islam's getting real into, like, that all-time category. Like, I'm not putting him up with John Jones yet, but, like, he's – he's Jack. He's in that conversation. Not John Jones yet, but I'm saying, like, he's in that, you know, that upper echelon of, like, top five or six of all time, I think.

Yeah, we love this, man, a big fight. It could be a big turning point in Islam's career, a big turning point in Jack's career. I mean, there's a lot on the line coming up next week. So this is one of them – you know, we do the – break downs pretty regularly. This is one, you know, I'm going to watch and study these motherfuckers a little bit. You know, I'm going to actually take a little bit of time, watch some tape. You know, I want to break this down, man. Yeah, we're going to talk about the next week. And I do like the fight, though, you know, I've mentioned on the show,

like, women's in the maze in a really, really rough place right now. But Janeway to leave Valentina's a good fight. Like, that's a really good fight. That's probably one of the best girls' fights ever, to be honest, you know, in terms of skill and athleticism and, you you know, the whole package. I mean, that's a legitimate girls fight right there. And I think the only one to be better right now is one we're probably going to get next year, which is Amanda and Kayla. That's, you know, probably the only fight that I'd be more jazz for.

But this is a good fight. Like, it's a really legitimate fight. You know, and that's Kayla or, I mean, Amanda coming off of a multi-year layoff. So, you know, we're, you know, and Valentina, I guess you could argue she's not in her prime anymore, probably, right? But, you know, we'll see next weekend, too. She might be. and you know,

Shang is definitely around her prime, right? So, you know, we're, that's what I like to see is two active champions fighting in their primes. And Sean, Sean Brady, Michael Morales, that's a fucking fight, man. That is such a good fight, man. That is one that could go a lot of ways, too. Could they end up not being a bangor, but, but boy, if it's not a banger, that's going to tell us a lot about whoever makes it not a banger.

too, right? Yeah, Morales looks like he's a beast so far, man. Sean Brady is so good on the ground. His grappling is just like unreal. Morales is, he's a world champ, right? I can't remember, but he's a, I mean, what he did did he just walked through Gilbert Burns. Like, he just absolutely demolished Gilbert Burns when

they fought. And then now you got Leon Edwards and Carlos Prontes. That's the other fight. We haven't even mentioned yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, forgot all about that, man. I mean, I think we're going to find out a lot about Prattis. You know, we kind of, we kind of know what we're going to get with Leon, right? You know, it's going to be smooth, he's going to be slick, it's not

going to be anything crazy, probably, you know, he's not searching for knockouts. You know, protest is a banger. He's going to come after it. And, you know, I'm a huge fan of process, man. You know, he does a lot of clinch stuff, a lot of elbows and knees that I like. And, you know, I met him in UFC Chicago and his coaches and stuff. They said, like, they actually, you know, toot my own horn here a little bit. They bought my instructional DVDs and, you know, You know, said they learned a lot of shit from me and want to train with me sometime. And I was like, you know, that felt good. You know, I was like, fuck, yeah.

You know, you put those things out there and you wonder, oh, does anybody actually care, right? Yeah, so that was pretty cool. But, man, Leon is so slick. That's a very, very interesting matchup. Every fight on this is. And like you said, Benile Der Rouge and I always say his name wrong, St. Buenra. St. Denis, yeah, Binwa, St. Denis. everyone was

shoveling you know dirt over over banil deriush's grave after a couple losses he goes out to beat him Mekano and he's like oh well I guess he's not done and like this is a really good fight so yeah it's this five fight car like dude this is like this every card every fight is good on that fight and I'm like I know he got

and we got to watch the prelims too for Bo Nickel right we still got to watch that because that is a main event our main card worthy fight still like like Vera and and Nickel that that's a made a main card worthy fight still. Yeah, 100% is a good fight. So it's a great card. So we'll break everything down next week, give our

picks and talk about the other big storylines going into that. Matt, people want to check you out, support you. Where can they go? What can they do? I am the immortal Instagram Twitter, the immortal Matt Brown, Facebook. Absolutely. We'll be back next week to break down everything UFC 32 related heading into MSG, so make sure you're here for that. As always, check us out on all your favorite

podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you next week with another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.