MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to UFC 324, UFC 325 Fights Plus Can Petr Yan Pull Off the Upset Against Merab Dvalishvili?

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the announcements made for UFC 324 and UFC 325 including Justin Gaethje vs. Paddy Pimblett, Kayla Harrison vs. Amanda Nunes and Alexander Volkanovski vs. Diego Lopes 2. Did the UFC make the right call with these fights? Plus we’ll give our picks and predictions for UFC 323 including if Petr Yan can pull off the upset and dethrone Merab Dvalishvili as he seeks his fourth title defense in 2025. All this and more on the latest episode! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odu for free at Odu.com. That's ODOO.com. I'm Neelai Patel, editor-in-chief The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas and other problems. We've talked a lot about generative AI on the show lately, which is a very big idea that is causing quite a few problems.

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So it begs the question, what are we even doing here in higher-ed? This episode is presented by Salesforce. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the... fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown and Matt. We have finally reached the point of the final UFC pay-per-view of 2025 and perhaps the final UFC pay-per-view of all time because as we know, the Paramount Deal kicks in early next year and we finally have our first card of the year announced. I know you're very excited

about that card they announced. I'll tell you, it's not a terrible card. I mean, it's right, right? I mean, you know, good names. Like this should be some good fights on there. I think. I know where you're going with this. And it's not deserving fights, to put it mildly. So, yeah, it's definitely, again, you know, we've talked about it so many times. Like for us hardcore fans, you know, it's just it, it's not a sport. And that's what we want to see for the hardcore fans.

For the Joe Schmo's going to Buffalo Wild Wings watching on a Saturday night, I'm sure all those guys are going to be stoked, right? I get to watch Patty Pimbley, who, you know, who is the last guy who ever deserved a title shot in his life. So they announced, of course, Justin Gachie and Patty Pimbley fighting for the interim lightweight title, which once again sounds ridiculous. From everything we've heard, and I don't know what all this is true, but the story going around is that Ilya is dealing with a divorce.

Matt, you've spoken about your own personal issues in your life when you've gone through that, and I do have sympathy for that. I know it's rough and certainly don't fall to him for not wanting to fight during that time. And actually, I kind of appreciate if that's what's happening and it seems like that's what it is, that Ilya is actually addressing it and not fighting because there's a real situation where he loses

and then, you know, he can't come out afterwards and say, well, I was going to a divorce. Everyone will just say you're making issues. At least he's manning up and saying, I'm not in the right headspace to fight right now. So with Ilya out until sometime next year, they're going to crown an interim champion. Is it still a stupid interim championship?

Absolutely, it makes no sense, but this is the UFC. Title seemed to matter more to them, and so that's what it is. But it's funny because last week on the show, we were talking about Armis Surukians win over Dan Hooker and whether it was going to be him or Patty Pimblek getting the shot against Iliot-Tiporia. We didn't know at the time we were going to take Iliot to Portia out of the equation, but you said on the show so astutely, what means more right now? Is it more about entertainment or is it about sport?

If it's about sport, Armis Surukin gets the title shot. It's about entertainment as Patty Pimbley. Well, it turns out you were right about that because it is entertainment because Justin Gaichi, who is phenomenal, by the way. This is not a knock on Justin Gaichi. I actually think Justin Gaichy's probably the deserving other person. Like, in all honesty, it probably should have been Justin versus Armin, and we're going to take the next two guys in line. But ultimately, they're leaving Armin out and they're putting Justin and Patty in there. And the worst part about this, to me, isn't necessarily the fight while it does kind of suck for Armin Sarukian, is that we know the winner is going to then go on to

fight Ilya, which means Armand's left out in the cold for probably most of 2026. I mean, there's no way he's not going to fight again. I don't know who he's going to fight, but you can't just sit around. So, Matt, your reaction to that particular fight and the stakes, considering what we now know at Ilius Toporia. Yeah, I mean, you said exactly right, man. You got to feel for Armin more than anybody else. I mean, the guy's done all the right things except one little mishap, which apparently,

I guess if you do one little mishap, you are screwed. And it was like a big mishap, right? right he got injured i mean you get injured you get injured and boy is it biting him in the ass now i guess um i don't know what you know you sometimes you we've seen this situation multiple times right it's like what do you got to do to get a goddamn title shot you know like when you've earned it you're the number one guy like why do they even have rankings anymore i don't really know they should just

it should just have like popularity scale right like just get rid of the rankings and just be like, here's the, you know, I don't know, here's the scale of, you know, they should just list like the most followers on Instagram. Here's who gets a nice title shot. He's got two million followers. Well, you mentioned it, and that was the debate we had. I guess the debate is now settled. Is it more about sport or is it more about entertainment?

And last week we said, sport, Armistaruchin, entertainment, Patty Pimbled. Well, they sure made their pick because it is Patty Pemble getting the shot. And the reaction has not been great, at least from the people I've seen on Twitter and stuff, because Patty doesn't have a win over a top five opponent. He doesn't have a win over, you would argue, a top 10 opponent. I mean, no offense, Michael Chandler. Where he sits right now, I don't know. But most people would say, well, he's two and five in the UFC.

Is that really a quality win to get you a title shot? And let's be honest, a big part of Patty getting this shot was built around his rivalry with Ilya. Like, that was a huge part of it. And I got it. Like, they hate each other. There's heat there. You're trying to sell the first show on Paramount. That I got.

Like, even though I didn't agree with Armand getting passed over, I'm like, I get it, though. Like, there's a, there's a, there's a longer even in the conversation. Like, they're not even, like, they're just basically saying, Patty's more popular. You're getting it over arm. Yeah, it's kind of sad, right? And that's, I mean, God, I hate, like, I kind of get into this too much,

but, I mean, that's really, like, that's the definition of, you know, a monopoly where a, uh, one, a single promoter owns the title and the rankings. and that's just that's not it's not a good thing for the sport in my opinion and I don't know I have to question what it's going to do for the longevity of the sport you know I don't think in the short term it's really going to make a big difference right like you know it's going to sell the next fight right it's going to sell the next pay-per-view but trends tend to come and go right fads tend to come and go at some point like you know to have staying power and lasting power I think it requires, you know, a meritocracy-based system.

It's going to require, you know, some, you know, if you want to bring in guys like Armin Sarukhian or Mosar of love, not always mess up, how I say his name, you want to bring in these Olympic wrestling level guys. I mean, they don't want to have to go out there and put on some ridiculous show to become a champion. They don't want to have to go on Instagram and start a podcast and make, you know, whatever kind of skits on social media

and the silly kind of stuff. Like, they just want to be a world champion because they want to be the best athlete. And that's what makes me wonder how the staying power is going to be, right? When you're dealing with guys that are, you know, legitimate athletes that want to be legitimate athletes, and they're getting passed up by guys that are entertainers. Yeah, I mean, and all of this is saying that I do.

don't think patty pimble's a bad fighter actually patty pimble's impressed me a lot but like but we also i'll touch on that real quick we also we don't know that much about patty pimble still is the biggest issue i think in the whole thing i just seen a a little mean picture graph whatever you call it on twitter earlier today and like his last three opponents are like oh and nine i think or something like that that's fucking ridiculous right like like he hasn't been a guy that's on a winning streak in his career yet, like in his prime, on a winning streak, like, doing

well. Yeah, and I think that, like, and let me be honest, like, there is a world where Patty goes out and beats Justin Gasey. I think that can't happen. Like, you know, Justin, Justin is admittedly kind of towards the tail end of his career, and I don't know, you know, I mean, Justin looked great against Fizzeeb, but that was also

on short notice and he already beaten Fizzee, so I don't know, like, I don't know where Justin's at. Justin was, you know, recently talking about like, if I don't get a title shot, I might retire. So I don't know where his head's at. You know, it kind of like, it was kind of like watching Dustin Porey. Like when you watched Dustin Porey back, whatever was 2019 or 2020, whatever was when he beat Max Holloway for that interim lightweight title, that was a brilliant performance from Dustin. He looked so good, so fast, so powerful.

You know, Max didn't totally look like a lightweight, but he looked great in that fight. Fast forward five years later when they rematched, and Max looked like the much better, fresher, younger fighter. And Dustin looked like a guy who was probably, it was probably time for him to start thinking about, you know, the next stage of his, of his. life, which he did. He retired. That's what time does. And Justin Gagey, like it or not, is getting to that time. I don't think Justin's, I don't think Justin's, like, you know, past his prime or washed or anything like that. But I do think he's at that, like, kind of that, that, that, like, he's at that tipping point where we're going to find out, like, how much time Justin has left.

So I think there's a world where Patty does win this fight, but if he wins that fight, doesn't mean he should be in the fight. Like, I know that's two weird things to kind of correlate together, but it's true. Like, just because you may win that fight doesn't mean you should get it because Justin has kind of earned his spot through years and years and years of hard fights, big fights, title fights, top five fights, and he's been right in that submitted top five for years, whereas Patty hasn't. Patty hasn't fought, you know, Charles Oliveridge. Patty hasn't fought Dustin Pori. Patty hasn't fought, you know, even like Matush Gamrod or any guys like on the fringe of the top five. Like, that's a problem. And you're putting him in a position

now where he could potentially win this fight. I do give him that. And he goes on the fight for You got, like, Arm and Saruki, who's on, like, whatever it is, like a six-fight win streak, beats Charles Oliveira, finishes Benile Darius, finishes Dan Hooker, you know, dominantly. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and I know that Olavera fight was pretty close, but, like, you know, going out there and having those kind of fights and beating legitimately, he beat a former champion in Charles Olavera, beat, you know, top 10 guy in Hooker, top-ton guy, Benile Daryush. And he's just got to sit, and now the worst-case scenario for him is he's probably not going to get a title shot in 2026. Like, let's be honest.

It's like they're fighting in January. Gachi and Patty are fighting in January. Ilya's like second quarter. So that means probably like June, July, maybe international fight week. And that's assuming no one's injured, whatever. There's a good chance to win her that doesn't fight again in December. It could happen. It could.

But likelihood there's a good chance if we see that fight in like June or July, they may not fight. So Armin can be looking at 2027. That's what hurts the most for Armin. Like it's not even he's missing out on the interim title fight. So he's not even going to get the next title. shots. And even with Justin Gagy, and again, I knock on him, but he's on

a one-fight winning streak against the guy that came in on 10 days notice. You know, I mean, Justin Gagy is clearly like a very good fighter, right? I mean, he's got some really good wins on his record. But, well, and, you know, to add to that, I mean, the last guy

he beat Fizeeve, he'd already beat him before. Yeah. Right? But he, like, he does doesn't have any impressive win streak to be earning a title shot either. You know, so it's just, boy, I mean, what a, what a wild pick of, what a wild choice of guys to compete for an interim title. When you got so many good options out there, you know, there's so many good guys. I mean, Armin is just the obvious one, and it's just ridiculous that he didn't get the shot. And I don't know what's going through his head right now.

haven't heard anything from him but there's no way he's not fuming man like you said 2027 there's a world and where he doesn't get a title shot till 2027 god man like I feel for the guy I mean you know he's a world championship level fighter yeah and now he's like basically you know he's basically stuck to the side for again maybe the better part of next year like I mean does he take another fight in 2026 to keep busy and you know and it's like what do you know who do you fight then they throw him to the wolves i mean there's he's not going to get a um you know a fringe top 10 guy or something that you know a tune up keep ready type fight right they're going to throw him to the wolves and he's going to have to get through another hard training cap and how old is arm and i mean

he's he's i think he's like 29 he's not he's not he's not very old yeah okay but you know you know the reason i ask you at is is you know i know that he's not old but man your prime is so short. You know, your prime, that window of opportunity is so small. And when you're not getting it based off of the things that you have done and the work that you put in, it's a tragedy. I'm looking at the rankings right now. And I've heard pretty good, I've heard from pretty good sources that we are going to get Charles Olivera versus Max Holloway next year. That's more than likely going to happen. I don't know when I've heard it's probably going to happen with the BMF title and that is a good fight, right? And they did fight years ago and it was an injury for Charles

and makes sense. Yeah. But when you look down the rankings, number one is Arm and Sarukin. Then you got Oliver. I'm looking at the UFC's rankings, by the way. And I know you said the rankings probably don't matter, and you're right.

They probably don't. But just for argument's sake. They got Sarukin at one, Oliver at two, Holloway at three, Gauchy at four, Patty at five, which Patty at five is wild, considering who he's fought. But okay.

Definitely the UFC rankings. Yeah. Then you got Dan Hooker, who he just beat, Matush Gamrod, which I guess you could run that back. They did have a pretty great fight the first time, and Sarakian lost a close decision.

I guess, but, you know, Garberra just got subbed by Olaver. I don't really know that you want to put him in there with that. I guess the next best option is going to be Benoit Saint-Dinie, because he's coming off a couple wins, and he had to knock out over Benile and he had to win over Maricio Rufi. After that, his physique was coming off a loss. Boycun who's coming off a loss? Chandler coming off multiple losses.

Darius coming up. Like, who's he going to fight? Like, it's pretty much got to be Benoit San Dini. That's literally the only guy out there on a win to fight Armisararouki, which is wild to me. But, you know, I would be happy to see Holloway or Oliver get that title shot, though. If it's going to be an interim title thing, I think either one of those guys is totally deserving of that. And, you know, whether it was against Gagey or Armin, you know, obviously should be Armin.

But boy, like, I haven't looked at those rankings in a while. That's, like, that's an aging division, isn't it? There's a lot of guys, like, hanging on that's just been around for so long. And, yeah, I'd have to look down and see who the prospects are. Because, boy, that seems like an aging division to me. I wonder, like, if there's part of that with Patty is because he is a younger, more popular guy. And number five is the top five based on his resume.

Gachi is an older legend. And, you know, as we said, kind of pride towards the tail into his career, like, you wonder if they're just setting it up because they're, like, wanting Patty. And Patty's already favored to win. a favorite to win that fight. Really? Yeah, his favorite. I think he's like a minus 200 favor, so he's a pretty good favorite to win that fight.

I'll put money. I'll gauge you on that. It kind of feels like that's the route they're going, though. They're kind of like, okay, go out there. This is like, you know, give him like the Porre kind of fight, the older guy who's dangerous but maybe not lethal, maybe, I don't know. And like, you know, Patty becomes interim champion. And then once he becomes interim champion, then the U.S.

marketing machine kicks in. They're like, well, he's the interim champion. He's got to fight Alien now. He's got to be the guy for Alien now. yeah that's true yeah you know who knows how long ilia's going to be out either i mean he's dealing with a lot of money and if it is a divorce i mean that that could drag on for years you know who knows you know they got i think they have a child right like that that that could be a long hard battle and and and and post divorce may not be easy either i mean they could literally

change a man like he could never be the same again i think he's a strong-minded enough person i don't They believe that's going to be the case. But, you know, we're all human beings here, you know. So, you know, I feel for him, man. And, you know, I want to send him good energy and hope that he gets through this. And at least it's just a child, you know, I hope the child, you know, everything works out for them. Because it's a terrible thing, man. You know, it's not talked about a lot.

And, you know, especially with guys that are kind of, you know, alpha males and warriors. and you know us guys like we don't really talk about a lot man but it can be a very very hard thing for people to deal with and like there is a legit possibility that he's not the same again after this yeah it's a it's a life altering situation can be depending on how it can be how nasty things get you know what i mean um i mean how nasty things get and how much money you know how how well things were protected how much money can be lost and how much um you know certainly like a mental stress and just you know it like it there's a there's a again there's a legit possibility that he feels like his you know he needs to fight to get back to something too soon right like like you know

there's guys that go into alcoholism and and partying and i mean there's a million ways that this could play out but it can really tear someone down so you know i wasn't talking about They did you out to him. When I mentioned the custody thing, like, that's a real thing. Like, depending on how they play out. Like, it could be a situation where, like, we don't know. I'm not in the know about this, but this could be a situation where his wife is, like, trying to get 100% custody of his kid.

And, like, I'm not going to see my kid anymore. That could affect you. There's lots of layers to this. And by the way, all this stuff we're talking about, none of this is Patty or Justin's fault. Like, they got offered it. They accepted it. Like, if you got offered it, you would accept it. You know what you're supposed to do?

This is not Patty's fault, even though I don't think he necessarily. still it deserves it but I say it all the time just you know well on the other side of coin it is his fault but you say that like in a good way for him right like yeah like he did the work to make this happen right like you know he does the social media he does the talking so in that sense it's his fault but you know the word fault puts a negative connotation on it yeah if you if you just matched up gaichi and patty and did that fight i think it's a fine fight to I think it's a fine fight, yeah. Interim title is the problem.

You're basically saying you're going to get the next title shot against Ilya, and now Armin is like literally the odd man out with nowhere to go. Like I said, I had to go all the way down to number eight. Benoit Saint-Deney, who's only on two-fight win streak, by the way. Let's not forget. He got beat by Pori, he got beat by Hanato-Wa-Kano, then he won two in a row. That's literally the only guy he could potentially fight.

And that could be a very good fight, by the way. But that's like, you're asking the number one guy to go all the way down to number eight just to get a guy who's on a win. you know the only other part of that is how long is ilion going to be out right like armin could come in and you know i mean i think he would swoop the title from either one of those guys so the in-term title you know depending on how long ilia is out and it could like i said it could very well be a while here's the other indication matt before we get to ufc 323 here's the other indication not that we didn't already know this about entertainment versus sport the main event for ufc 324 is justin gaichie versus patty pimble for the the interim title. The co-main event is the women's band-to-weight title between Kayla Harrison and arguably, I don't

know if it's even really arguably, the greatest women's fighter of all time, Amanda Nunes, coming back from two years away, retirement, she's coming back to fight for the title. Now, this same scenario happened at UFC, I care what the number was, in November a couple years ago when John Jones tore his peck, and he got knocked out of the fight with Steve Miochich.

And they brought in, it was Alex Pereira and Yuri Perashkar at the main event, and the interim heavyweight title was Tom Aspinall against Sergei Pavlovich. that was the co-main event at first people were like hold on now why is the heavy weight usually it's the bigger weight class right

but they're like oh no no it's a real title versus an interim title so that's why Pereira and Yuri was the main and I got it when they said it that was oh yeah that does make sense like it's an interim title not this time interim title's getting preference over the women's bad and weight title fight yeah again it's just

another case of you know there's very few people I guess probably only one person like truly in charge of this whole thing and that's not a good thing in the long run and it's not good for the fighters I mean

Amanda and Kayla should absolutely be having their own main event on their own card you know I don't necessarily see where see them main eventing over Patty and Gagey you know especially for an interim

title but they should have their own card I mean I think it's I think 100% and you know yeah that's all there is too i mean they should just have they should have their own fucking main event fight i don't know why they they wouldn't do that it's just so weird too it's just like i mean i get it like i'm not saying that patty and justin won't get more people to tune in but it just seems disrespectful you got the women's you know the legitimate you know undisputed women's bandway title former champion legend all time great and amanda newness coming

back and you're like no no you're in a kind of main event it just seems weird to me like when there's an interim title like it's just like okay so i mean i guess the point is and i guess we should already know this matt you kind of brought this up like when you have one entity kind of running everything um they can do what they want and that's that's the like whether we like it or not like they'll just make the rules oh last time it was because uh it was short notice so we put the interim title in that that's i mean they didn't say that but they could what are we going to say okay like it's their rules they make they literally make the rule back as they go along.

Yeah, and again, I've said a million times. I don't hate the UFC for what they do. Like, this is what you should do as a business, but the fans need to understand. Look, they own the fighters, right, with the contracts. They own the media. So they own the narrative that's put out there, other than, of course, like the independent podcast and everything, which is not at the events, right? Like the people that are actually talking back and asking real questions, you know,

They own the titles. They own the rankings. Like, they literally own the whole thing. And it's like that, you know, if you want to support that, that's cool. And I mean, I support it too, right? We talk about it. I watch it. I love the fights.

But that is what it is. And it's not good for the fighters long term. It is absolutely selling every fighter that's ever fought short of the money that they should be making. it sells people like Kayla and Amanda short of opportunity Armin sells him extremely short of opportunity and that's just what happens and if you're okay with that then you're okay with that

yeah I'm you know and like I said I'm you know I'm bummed because like this is I know people kept bringing up the interim heavyweight title they did with Cyril Ghan and Derek Lewis when Francis and Gano won the championship beating Stepe and it was like three months later and I'm like that was the dumbest

interim title ever because like they did because ingano didn't want to come back and fight in august he wanted to fight in september and they're like well we need to we need the main events we're crowned that was that to me is still the dumbest interim champion because like literally ingano won the title three months earlier and you're trying to tell us now there's an interim champion that was the dumbest one this one this one this one isn't even as dumb because ilia is saying like i'm going to be out for a while and if he's going to be out till june or july which would be a year that would be a year since he won the title okay i'm not even really mad about the interim title. I'm not about who got it.

Like, who got the interim title fight? It's not even that they're introduced. The interim title is dumb. It is. But, okay, whatever. Ilya's going to be out for a year or, you know, but it's going to be a year by the time he fights again. Sure, fine, whatever. But not including Armin Sarukian is the joke. Like, come on.

Like, what are we doing here? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not like, it's not like he's like on a one, you know, he's gone one and one or he's two and one in his last three. He's legitimately the number one guy. And you're just saying, that doesn't matter. We're going to put the number four and number five ranked guys in an interim title fight.

It's just, it's ridiculous. Yeah, you know, that would be the advantage of independent rankings, right? And, you know, people talk a lot of shit about boxing.

I know boxing has a billion problems plus one. But, you know, they have mandatory challengers for a reason. You have to fight the number one guy. If you don't, you vacate your belt. Yeah,

well, we're not getting that. You know, uh, uh, otherwise, We're not getting that. We're not getting that. Other fights is in the car. Shana Malley, Song, Yadong.

That's a fun. When Waldo Cortez Acosta, take it on Derek Lewis, that's interesting. Arnold Allen and John Silva. That's a bit of interesting matchmaking because Arroyal is not known as the most exciting guy, and Jean Silva is. Alexa Grasso, Rose Nambi Unis. That's a fun one. Umar and Magabedoff and Devis and Figurato.

Kind of a weird one, but I guess, you know, and it's, you know, get Umar in there one more time. That's an interesting fight, though. That's a, I'm surprised it's not higher up on the car, because that's a hell of an interesting fight, keeping it real. Yeah, it is an interesting fight. So that's a good. So, you know, and then obviously we didn't even talk about, we'll do it real quick before we get to 323, but they also announced UFC 325 in February, literally a week later.

Like they're doing back-to-back pay-per-views, which there are no more pay-per-views. So, like, it's not quite the same. Like, hey, you had to pump down $80. Yeah, numbered cards. Alexander Volcanowski fighting Diego Lopez. For a rematch, Diego has fought once since then. He beat Jean-Silva, knocked and finished John Silva, which is a super good win, by the way. but, and Alex hasn't fought since then.

So he's literally doing back-to-back fights with Diego Lopez while Mosa, Evlouev and Lorone Murphy are out there going, um, us? What? What's going on here? This one's, and I don't, once again, not blaming Diego Lopez. This is his job. They offer him a title shot. He should take it. But this is one of the most nonsensical rematches I've seen in recent history. Yeah, I don't know. I don't even know what to say about this one. I don't know where this came from, why they are doing that, what the idea behind it is.

I really don't get that one at all. I mean, if they were doing, if they were doing the show in Mexico, I can see it. Diego being a huge star, you know, I could get, they're doing in Australia. Volcanowski's from Australia. That's the guy. Like, I don't think it really matters who he fights. Like, they're going to, the Australian crowd's going to come out for him. You know what I mean?

Like, and it's not even that Diego's a bad fighter. Diego's a great fighter, but he just lost. Less than a year ago, he lost to Volcanowski. And it wasn't a particularly great fight. It was an all right fight, but like, I don't, this is, This is got, this is even, to me, this might be weirder than Gatia and Patty, because at least that one I can say, well, you're doing it based on popularity. Patty's a very popular guy.

That I get, and they're trying to, like, set it up for the Ilya fight. I get it. Even though I don't agree with it, I get it. This one, I don't even get. Like, I'm like, I don't, this one makes no. Lorone and Mosar are right there. What are you doing? Yeah, and it's not like we've seen something out of Diego, you know, in that last fight with John Silver.

We're like, wow, he should definitely be back at the title shot. Like, he's the guy. I mean, I think he's an amazing fighter. Certainly, he still, you know, I certainly has a shot against Volcanowski. Sure. But I don't think any more of a shot than he did the first fight, right? Like, I haven't seen anything spectacularly changed up in his game since the first fight. And how Moussar has not got a title shot.

Again, it's the same situation as Armin. It's like, why? what do you have to do oh you have to go on the internet and get famous that's not the way that this sport's supposed to work man it's not cool yeah I agree I agree

and it's so funny because you can never totally predict how people are going to catch on to somebody like stylistically Kabim de Malgo Medov was not you know he was not a knockout you know crazy striker you know crazy he was not like Alex Perey knocking people dead on the feet

he was a guy who took people down beat him up on the ground and generally submitted them. That was kind of, that was Khabib's game and that's very much kind of Islam's game as well. But Khabib kind of transcended, became a hugely popular guy, and so did, so did Islam, and you can say Amsaat Sharmai is another one, although Hamzot

did have a couple of pretty highlight real knockouts early on, but lately he's been much more grappling heavy. By the way, that's totally fine. But it's so funny because you look at those guys, so popular, can sell cards, incredibly huge with fans. And you look at a guy like Mossar, who's very similar, wrestler, takes

people down and just beats them up, dominates him, yet he's not getting a title shot because people just haven't caught on to him. That goes back to your point. Is this about entertainment? Is there about sport? They're not looking at Islam and Khabibu and say, oh, you guys were the most entertaining fighters ever, but you were popular. So it kind of transcended their

style, so to speak. Even though, I mean, come on, you can't fault Khab and Islam. In terms of styles, they were two of the most difficult matchups for anyone to ever fight in this sport. But they weren't going out there and having the Gachis, the Holloways, the Dustoporri Wars. Like, that was just not their game, which, by the way, maybe there's a reason

they're fighting into their mid-30s because they didn't go out there and have those wars. But Mozar's like, what do I got to do, man? Like, I've won. I beat Diego Lopez. What do I got to do? Like, I beat everybody. I'm undefeated.

You're still passing me up. Like this, you're right. He is literally in the, and actually, him getting passed over is worse than Armin, because he, at least Armin, you can say, well, he had a shot and then he blew it by getting injured. I know, you're right. We shouldn't fall together for getting injured. But it was fight week.

two days away from the fight what are you doing so hard you're getting injured that I like making him fight again I understood he fought Dan Hooker so we should be on we should be beyond that Mobsar did nothing

what the hell did Mobsar do yeah when was the last time Mobsar fought I mean it's been a while last December when he fought Al Jermaine he beat Algeman Sterling yeah yeah it's been a while yeah man it's a tragedy man

I want to see the sport be a sport right I want to see guys like Moussar deserves his chance right he deserves his due and like I mean if you go to the you know to the bar and you mentioned Moussar of like no one's going to know who the hell he is right like you say he doesn't have that name value and I think when like Khab and Islam came in well Khabib particularly like he kind of he was the first of the Dagestanians right in the first kind of he kind of brought that stigma over from you know the russia dastanian that's type that that part of the world he brought that stigma with

him and they could easily market him up as this unbeatable you know invincible guy because he's from his other part of the world right and then hamzah kind of followed obviously islam is followed and and these guys are you know they're not unbeatable but they're fucking pretty close right like they're very very fucking hard to beat so they've lived up to the hype but you know they're You know, they kind of pick and choose to the market. Maybe Moussard doesn't have the right manager or, you know, I don't know. Maybe they just don't feel like he has the same marketability as them. I'm not totally sure, but there's something in there that we're just not seeing.

Or maybe, you know, I kind of have a conspiracy theory too, which is, that's exactly what it is. Conspiracy theory. I don't think it's factual at all. But, you know, they needed a villain for Connor, right? Khabib was in the right place and the right time he was marketed as unbeatable and it was a perfect

time to have that villain for him and they know what happens right Khab wins which he did now he becomes the next star right and he really is this unbeatable Russian guy et cetera et cetera like

Mosar does not have that villain right now right there's nobody ahead of him that's like so big and Markable that they're like oh this would be a a great rivalry and I kind of started it and Hamzad also come over as sort of the the villain right like he was talking like really intense stuff and you know I'm gonna smash everybody and and and you know to be fair with Hamza he also you know he did the thing too right like he fucking did the thing you know he come over and I think what would he fight three times in like a month or something

something when he first came, you know, the UFC loves that shit when you do that, right? And, you know, especially when he first came on the scene, right? So, you know, they've been paying him back the whole time. Islam, again, another easy market, right? He's the, he's the protege of Khabi. You know what I mean? So, like, I feel like a lot of these things just happened just with the timing and the way things kind of played out in the storylines.

For, unfortunately, for guys like Armin and Moslar, like, there's not a storyline there. right i think arman was kind of starting to build one with ilia a little bit and it could be a storyline but there's no storyline with him engaging or and that's we talk about the entertainment versus sport this is what they want is entertainment is a storyline they want a tale to be told to the masses and what's funny is i feel like they gave moussar more time because i interviewed mowsar about a year ago maybe like a year and a couple months ago and he's learned he's learned english very very well and he was great he was really engaging

like he had some great he had some great talk like I was like damn way to go mostar like he was talking good like damn way to go but it just you can't you can't tell people

what they should be attracted to you can't people you can't tell people who they should pay attention to I actually I don't think it's a conspiracy theory I think it's actually right on the money

with Kabib and Connor like that was and it's just because I think the same thing you could say the same thing about Nate Diaz I like Nate Diaz has always been kind of a cult hero

but he wasn't that popular he was like a mid-range but he made a story every time he fought But especially with the Conner thing, though, like going out and beating Conner. I actually didn't get to the conspiracy part. I'm sorry. Oh, okay, yeah.

Yeah, the actual conspiracy is, okay, so they build a story with Connor, and now Khabib wins, which I think most of us knew he had a really good shot at winning, you know, and he goes in and wins. Now Connor has a loss on his record. He needs the UFC. He was getting to the point where he didn't need the UFC anymore. He was getting that big. but then he loses once or twice

now he needs the UFC you might not be wrong about that I mean you know you get you know they kind of outgrow your bosses and they're like well hold on now we got to bring you back to earth a little bit you know they don't I don't know if it's again this is that kind of conspiracy or hypothetical shit but like I don't feel like they do that anymore

right I don't feel like they want another Connor they don't want someone to outgrow to be able to outgrow the the brand right they don't want a fighter's brand to be able to be bigger than the UFC and Connor was very close to it and he may have he may have surpassed

I don't know I don't think so but you know he I think he got as close as we'll ever see someone get and I think that's why again I know it's a little conspiracy issue whatever but I kind of get the feeling that's why they're not building up fights six weeks eight weeks out now they're not doing like countdowns

as much as they used to they're not building guys up long term anymore right it's just let's just build the next card as big as we can and it's all about that card right it's not about the fighter it's not about their story like like like patty and justin like there's not a there's enough of a story there that they can right because patty can make a story and you know justin's been around for a while so there's enough story that they can put something together right and you know promote it for a little bit and that's it with Diego, Volk, similar thing, right?

They fought before. So, okay, we got something we can do with the story here. But it's not enough to outgrow the sport, though. Right? It's not, it's not, none of these guys, Patty, Justin, they're not going to be bigger than the UFC. If any of them left the UFC right now, pulled in Angano on them, like they'd be, you know,

fighting misfits boxing or BK. or some shit right bare-knuckle yeah no you're i actually don't think that's a conspiracy theory at all i think you're probably right about that like you don't want them to grow bigger than the brand and connor probably came the closest and yeah they're like uh you know connor now you need us again so uh you're probably not wrong i don't think you're wrong about that i think that's a great point um yeah we'll see i mean like i said but and to be fair like i said even though i don't agree with the match that got made this is a good card they did get a good debut card for that paramount car with umar fighting and you know alexa groso coming back and uh i think that umma i think

that umar dares to fight might be the fight to watch at night honestly yeah it's good i mean i'm i'm most excited about kela and amanda like i think that's just i cannot wait to see those two go out i think that's been really interesting to see how long it's it been since amanda fought well over two years she fought in june 23 so i guess it'll be closing in yeah so it's been about two and a half years so coming in to fight kela i'll file that time off and how old is she now she's in her 30s uh she is let's see here she's i know she's got a baby now and you kind of live. A couple babies. I think she has two kids now, 37, yeah. Yeah, 37 living the family life. And then you're going to come back and you're going

to fight the killer, Kayla. Yeah. Yeah, I don't see how that goes well. I don't, I don't like it either. I've been a Kayla, you know me. I've been a Kayla person for years. And so I'm just glad we're getting to see it finally. And the thing is, for Kayla, the only downside for Kayla, she meets a man to Newness. Who in the hell else you're going to fight? Because like, what else is out there? It doesn't really say, like, okay, you are the greatest female now because you beat retired Amanda? I mean, listen. You know, I mean, Amanda left on top, and yes, it has been two years, but I don't think

she's coming back, and I don't think we're looking at her in the same regard to some people who come back, and you know they're not themselves anymore. Now, maybe we see some training footage. I don't think we know. Yeah, we don't know for sure, but I have a hard time believing Amanda would allow herself to come back and potentially ruin her legacy by losing badly to Kayla. I think she's, who knows, though, we'll see. I mean, I'm going to talk about that.

I know lots of fighters, bro. Like some, the majority of us, man, we can't stop fighting, right? We, we, we, we yearn for those lights, man, for the rest of our lives. And, and then, you know, there's also the money issues, you know, having two kids. And, you know, do she pay her fucking taxes? You know what I mean? It's like, you know, like there's so many, like, other reasons than, then, because what I want to see and what I think most fight fans want to see is a hungry. animal in there out for blood wanting to kill and and just savagely go try to grab that title

yeah we'll see i i have a hard time believing that's what we're going to get with amanda here i could totally be wrong yeah i mean maybe should prove me wrong but um i have a hard time believe in it i have a lot more faith in amanda coming back than i ever did ronda rousey so at least there's down against me so yeah um well at the time she came back i didn't i didn't not believe it i mean i thought she had to you know obviously come back against amanda wasn't the person to come back against but but it was uh you know i i kind of i won't totally disagree but on the same token um man ronda's a fucking competitive motherfucker you know like love her or hate her like she is a competitive son of a bitch

man like when she comes back she's gonna come back for blood every time I think if she's 60 years old and comes back I think she's out for blood you know Amanda was just not the right person

to be coming back against you know because at that time Amanda was about as bloodthirsty as they get yeah that's true well we'll see like I said there it seems to be enough of a rivalry there you know used to train together he's trained at the same head coach and that's a

A little story there And like I said Unlike the Armending This is actually the right fight to make Because good Lord who else is killed We've got to fight at Badaweight Yeah Yeah that's what that's when it sucks there

Right It's just like who else does she fight Okay Let's offer Amanda big enough payday to come back And it sounds like it worked right Like they gave her something she couldn't refuse This is Dana To talk about like boxing is always

Every fight is going out of business cell This feels like Going out of business cell for the women's Bandaway division Bro, that's a good point. I mean, for the whole card, honestly, right? Like, you can say the same for the main event, right? 100%. Support for this show comes from Odu.

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does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Matt, we do have fights coming up this week

in the final pay-per-view card ever, in the final pay-per-view card of 2025. Marab DeWiles has really taken on Peter Yan in the main event. I know we talked about this a couple weeks ago, and you, you know, you've been, you've been riding high on Marab probably longer than almost anybody. You were on the Marab train before he was champion. You're on the Marab train coming up as a prospect. You were the guy saying Marab is the dude. He's going to be a champion. And when he got to be champion, you were completely right picking him to win and all the things he's done. But you actually said a couple weeks ago that you are really intrigued by the rematch because Peter Jan could be a really difficult matchup. So, Matt, your opinion, does Peter Yan get it? it done? Or are you hedging your bets a little bit here and saying that? And then be like, well, Brad's still going to win. Yeah, it's funny you say that because, you know, I was on the Peter Yon train long before he was in, he was in, uh, I think he was on the prelims or something one time and he was warming up backstage. I want to say, would he used to train with

your eye of favor? I can't remember. He may have. He's trained a lot of places, so. Okay, he was either warming up with Faber or, you know, I think Faber was there, but I could be wrong on that too. But I just, I remember seeing him backstage as, we were both warming up and I was just watching him like dude that dude is nasty that dude is he's going to do some things and you know I watched the fight I don't remember what fight it was that night but it watched him and then I said that dude's going to be something and as I watched him as I said I've been on peter yon's train for a very long time and then you know when marab came along I said well there you go and when after he beat yon that's when I was officially on the

Marab train because he beat Jan and um but you know Jan was also the one guy that he's fought who I think really gave him problems you know like like Marab really only won by spamming takedowns right he wasn't landing shots really like Jan just wasn't didn't have time to get any offense so um you know I'm I'm like a 55 45 45 on this for Marab you know because I think it just depends on how Jan has developed his wrestling. I mean, he stopped almost all of his shots. I think maybe he landed two or three shots and Jan still got right back up. He might have been down for a minute at one point or something, but like Jan showed he can wrestle with Marab. But the question is, has Jan developed enough to be able to offensively wrestle against Marab? Right.

He's going to have to counter that wrestling with some offense. He's got to be able to get some offense off and if he can do that then i think he wins his fight um do i think he can do that that's why i'm 55 45 45 marab because you know i think marab has also improved since their first fight and my only fear with marab is that he might get comfortable in his stand-up like he tends to get comfortable in his stand-up um and of course at some point in the fight he says all right fuck this i'm just going to do what i do and and take you down a hundred times But I think if he gets a little too comfortable in his stand-up and doesn't kind of play that same game playing he did in the first fight,

then I'm going to go with Yon's. But I do think Marab knows what he's in for. I think he feels how good Yon is, and I think he's probably going to look very similar to the first fight, I think. I look at Marab's fight with Corey Sanhagan, where his coach told me, like, he's like, he's confident to go out there and knock him out. We talked about that.

Like, man, that's a dangerous game to play with a guy like Corey. Guess what? Who came closest to finish in the fight with strikes? Marat. Marab knocked him down bad in that second round. And I think Marab's got a lot better in his stand-up, a lot more comfortable in his striking. But I don't think he's crazy enough to think he's just going to win a kickboxing match with Peter Yon.

I think he knows, just like he did against Corey Sandhagen. He caught him, hurt him badly in that second round nearly finished him. But then after that, he went back to his wrestling. He kind of stuck to his guns. He didn't get crazy. He didn't go out there and just turn into a kickboxing matchup. I think he knows he can do better against Peter Yon on the feet this time than he did the last time.

The last time you're right. He spanned him and takedowns left and right and yon just couldn't do anything you just couldn't keep him off him he stopped a takedown that's literally all he did though he did nothing else stopped the takedowns and marab was just put or marab was just trying to take him down for five rounds he couldn't do anything else i think marab has a more diverse skill set now i think he's grown and gotten better uh but i don't think he's going to get outside himself but just suddenly let's let's turn this into a boxing match when maybe the best boxer at the bandway division so i still like marab to win i i'll be honest like yon's won his last couple but i haven't been totally like blown away by

him like i haven't seen his growth like leaps and bounds like he's good don't get me wrong peter yon's an incredible fighter i just haven't seen where i'm like oh man he's reinvented himself but he's gotten you know he's really set up his boxing different he looked kind of like the same guy he did before he's always good um and i think marab's gotten better so that's where i'm going to lean marab i think it's going to be a different fight i don't think it's going to be spamming 100 takedowns over five rounds but i do think we're going to get a lot of takedowns and i think marab's improvement is boxing to the point where like when he goes for takedowns like Like when you did against Corey, he closed the distance,

and that's when he hit him, and that's when he hurt him. This time, maybe instead of just going for takedowns, he closes that distance, pushes you on against the cage, and hits him instead of just goes for the takedown. I like Marab to win here. Obviously, there's a danger when you're fighting four times in one year, four or five round fights. It's a lot of action, a lot of time.

But, yeah, I got to go to Marab here. I think this is going to be his cap to what could be. I mean, four title fight wins in a year? That's ridiculous. And against, you know, true number one, contenders and killers, right? Like, yeah, you know, the, the improvements that we've seen with him against Cory Sanhagen, I don't necessarily think are going to shine the same against Yon just due to

the stylistic matchup. And I think you have a great point there that Yon has not shown as much improvement as Marab has, but I still think stylistically it's still going to look very similar because I do think that you know you know yon's biggest issue in a fight with a marab is like he's not a one strike knockout guy you know and i kind of think that's what it's going to take to get marab right like you're going to have to defend a takedown you're going to have to um you know counter wrestle a little bit and then you're going to have to have the power to really hurt them you know and make them shoot a desperate shot or or knock him out or you know something along those lines um and

that's my biggest issue with yon because uh i do i don't think think Maraba really hurt Yon. I think the way that Corey fights versus the way that Yon fights, you know, Corey moves a lot and, you know, kind of, which all that movement kind of leaves you open to get hit, right? You're relying on reactions and you're relying on speed and slickness and technicalities. And when the pressure forward guy with wrestling too, right, throws you for a little loop and you zig when you should have zagged, boom.

you get hit, right, and you get hurt. Yon is so much more, you know, got more fundamental and just, you know, stays there. And, you know, very, one of the best high guards I've ever seen in MMA in history, right? Just blocks punches with his forearms so well and stays right in there. But that leaves him open for shots, right? And he's obviously very well practiced in that. And he can defend, you know, three or four punches and then defend your take. down right away.

But it just doesn't help with getting offense off. Yeah. So, yeah, so, just kind of adding on to what you said there, because that's a, yeah, I do find, I do think it's going to be a chess match of a fight, though, right? I think it's going to be a very, very interesting fight. It would be interesting to see if Jan pulls out any new tricks here, right? If it pulls a rabbit out of the hat, if he, you know, does something that we haven't seen from him yet, because I think he's capable of a lot more.

I hope that he's able to get a little bit of counter-wrestling and at least give Marab a hard time. The last thing Peter Young could do in this fight is fight reacting to Marab. He can't do that. He can't just fight reacting to Marab. He's got to produce his own offense. He cannot sit back and wait to see what Marab does.

He does that. It's going to be a bad night for him. But if he goes out there, attacks, puts Marab on his back foot, doesn't let Marab attack and get aggressive, it could be a good night for Peter Young. But I just... I guess he could. kind of said out anybody right like you don't let marab think and come forward at all right yeah um

if marab wins is he pretty much a shoe in for fighter of the year i think that's pretty much a foregone conclusion right i mean islam had a good year but his year started out with a win over moikano short notice not his fault and he beats jackedella madalana becomes a two-division champion alice prear gets his belt back this year illy becomes lightweight champion but four title fights and four title defenses in one year i don't think you can top that i mean i don't care who you're and let's not forget Umar, O'Malley, Corey, and Peter Yon. That's literally like the four best bandwates not named Mirab Walsh really. Yes, exactly.

I've said it earlier this year. I think we had this same conversation, right? You know, everybody was, all the, all the recency bias, you know, had Alex Pereira, and then it was who else we just said. But Marab, 100%, man. He wins this fight. I mean, that's close to like, fighter of the decade, right? I mean, this is one of the best years, I mean, in the history of the

sport. It's ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure, you know, if we can put this out on social media or something, I'm sure some people will come up with some other years that people have had that have been phenomenal, but four times in a year with the names you just name, I don't know how you don't give that a fighter of the year. And I said, I'll be leaning towards fight of the decade a year of the decade. I don't know how you say that. I think Marab has already defined himself as the best band to wait ever.

I think that is hard to... But I mean, this just is like a huge exclamation point on his year. He goes out there and his willingness to do this, fighting in October, turning around, fighting in December. If he does this man, like not only is he already... To me, he's already the greatest band-to-weight

because to me, that's a shorter list. You know, it comes down to just a couple of guys. You can debate about Al-Chameh, you can debate about Dominic Cruz. It's Marab. He's already done that. He's defended his title the most. And now he's about to do it for a fourth time in the same calendar year.

That's just ridiculous, man. Like this guy, like, I'm saying, he was in a similar situation as Mobson. They didn't want to give him a title shot, didn't want to give it to him. They gave it to Cheeto finally gets his chance, and he has made the most of it. And now, Marab has kind of become one of Dana's favors. Why? Because he's like, I want to fight every three months. Give me back in there.

Give me back in there. Now Dana loves Marab. Play the game with Dana. You see how it kind of turns around for you. Just saying, like, you see how it kind of turns around for you. Just saying, like, you see how it kind of turns. were out for you. I mean, realistically, he should be on, what, a six, seventh title defense at this point? Yeah, I mean, 100%. Maybe more than that. I mean, I have to look at the exact

numbers, you know, like he should have had a title shot long, long time ago. Yeah, yeah, but he's making the most of it now. Yeah, but he's making most of it now. And like I said, I mean, again, you look at like he beat, he beat Yon before. This is now a rematch. He would have two wins over Peter Yon. Here he is a winner Hinder-Sahudo, one of the other band's way champions. Like, He has a ridiculous resume, and this is his fourth title of events in a year. It's so ridiculous. Yeah, I think Suhuda is fighting on this card, right? Yeah, against Peyton Talbot.

That's an interesting matchup. That's kind of interesting. Suuio said probably his final fight. He said he looks good, he feels good. What that actually means will say he did not look good in that song you don't fight. I know that he got eye poked, and it should have been, I am my opinion, either a disqualification or not a no contest. He got eye poked badly. opinion, I pox. But he did not look great in that fight. But I've always been a Henry

Sehudo believer. He's got one last race to run. I think he's going to go out there and run. And Peyton Talbot kind of hit and miss. He had that really bad performance against Barcellos. Then he came out of his last week. He looked great. But I still don't know what we're going to see out of this kid. So we'll see. It's good fight. Yeah. Yeah, it's a proper last fight. If it is Suhudo's last fight, right? Because I don't think we know where he's at in his career. I don't think we know how hungry he really is. I know he's always been doing kind of a lot of side things but it seems like he's doing even more side things and um again that's what we want to see when when we're watching a ufc we want to see the super bowl we want to see the hungriest bloodthirstyest lions

on this planet going in there and fighting for the gold um and i i don't again i don't think suhudo's there right now um but is does talbot have what he needs to beat a guy like henry that's what kind of makes this interesting. By the way, before we talk real quick before we get out of here about Pantosia and Joshua Van, did you see the wrestling announcement last night? Bo Nickel versus Yel Romero?

Yeah, that's a fascinating one. You know, Yol hasn't showed signs of aging for the last 30 years. But Bo's a lot younger than him, right? I mean, he's got to be much, much younger. I think Bo is 27 or 28, Y'Oel is 48.

Yoel, Yowell wrestled and defeated Bo Nichols college wrestling coach. Yeah, Kyle Sanderson. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like at what point, you know, well, to add on to that, too, is how much does Yoll even wrestle these days? You know, I know he's done the boxing stuff. I know Bo still goes to Penn State regularly. Yeah. The best wrestling team, certainly in the country, you know, the best Olympic team in the country.

and, you know, one of the top in the world. So, yeah, I think it's like it has a lot of interest. I just wonder if it's actually going to end up being interesting when we watch it. But you know what? This is exactly what wrestling needs. What a great story. Bo Nicol, UFC star, three-time NCAA champion, wrestling, one of the only people to ever beat his coach multiple times. Juel Romero is one of like two people to have multiple wins over Kel Sanderson.

And that was Beau's coach. It's a great story. Like, great job for a real American freestyle for booking that. Like, what a great idea. And then just on my, what is a Instagram feed or YouTube feed? One of those things yesterday, come up the Yo-Romero Saitiv match. So for all the people out there, if you ever get a chance to watch that, if you want to watch true archery and poetry in motion,

watch fucking Sightive, man. Like, he's one of those guys that, like, it's probably every month. month or two months it just something pops up and I watch it again and I'm like holy shit like how does this guy real and I mean it is Boovisar Saiti

the absolutely most fascinating to me athlete of all time I mean the way he wrestled like I said just fucking poetry man like you you feel like he's singing a song to you when he's wrestling he's so good it was

so good it's fun to watch it like And like I said, I had fun to Real American Freestyle on Saturday, and I covered the event. It was fun, man. Like, Mendez and Chandler. Did you go to it? No, I just watched it. I watched it on it. I watched it last night.

But it was fun. Like, you know, Chandler and Mendez, like, it was pretty much what you expect to guys who were, you know, not quite wrestlers anymore, but they went out there and had a fun match. But, like, and, you know, good. He did. He did. He had, I was, I actually was super impressed because in college, like, in terms of collegiate accomplishments, Mendez was more accomplished and Chandler looked good. The U.S.

The United has been. is much heavier than Mendez too and he wasn't all-American he just wasn't as highly rated as chadmendez was a national runner-up to jay jaggers from the ohio state university just in an epic match too when when jake won that right broke his ankle and still won like that was a fucking epic match and mendes i i know mendoz very well he still holds a grudge with that one because he did not like the scoring in that match the way it went he still thinks he beat jay jaggers uh But the other... Just real quick,

they got a picture of that on the wall when Jake's like screaming, it's at the wall on Ohio State. I don't know if they still have it there, but it's in the old room and steelwood. And, you know, that was just an inspiring picture every time you see it, man,

because, you know, Jake just struggling through with a broken ankle. Like, it's savage, man. Yeah. And then the other UFC guys didn't fare so well. Clay Glead got blanked and Yo, Jo Keene Buckley got slammed. Don't know if he saw a slam last night back down.

He picked him up and dropped him up and drug. dropped and bad, and I was like, this is, and it's funny, every single guy is starting calling out UFC fighters, like, I want to wrestle your eye on favor, I want to wrestle this, I want to wrestle that guy. I was like, yeah, because you know you're going to get some popular, you're going to get some popularity of beating guys who are probably overmatched, should be in there with you. But I, I give credit, Chandler called out Jordan Burroughs.

I'm like, all right. Okay, that's, yeah, I mean, that's a fun call out, yeah. I don't know if it's the smartest call out, but give him credit, he's not, he's not, he's not going for the lowest, he's not calling out Connor McGregor for a wrestling match. Right, right, yeah. I mean, that'd be fun to watch, you know. Like, Jordan is always fun to watch. Like, he's another one of those guys

like he could watch him wrestle every day. Yeah, so interesting. Real quick, before we get out here, man, I don't want to forget about the flyaway title fight at EOC 323. Alessandre Pantoja looking for another title offense. Take it on Joshua Vann, which is crazy to think Joshua Vann wasn't ranked to start the year. And now here he is in a title fight to close to your young guy,

23, 24 years old. I talked to his co, his co-head coach is Daniel Panette. You remember Daniel Panetta, they're from UFC. Great, great, all-round, exciting fighter. And I talked to him about a week or so ago, and I said, what makes Joshua Van special? And he's just like, I'm paraphrasing here. He's more or less like, this kid just doesn't give a fuck. Like, he will go out there and fight you.

And he's like, there's part of him to, like, I feel like he wants to go out there. He's like, oh, you think you can submit me? I'll submit you. Now, he's like, I'm not saying he's going to do that. I'm just saying, like, that's his mentality. He doesn't have fear. He doesn't fight afraid. He's going to go out and there and go balls to the wall, hammer for hammer, fight.

you until the bitter end and i was like i like that attitude because i do think some guys fight in title fights they fight not to lose instead of fighting to win i'm not saying he has a great chance to win but i love the story of joshua van man what a crazy year he would have he goes out there pulls off this upset but it's an uphill battle man pentosia's really good yeah pentosia's been looking great man so yeah it's definitely an uphill battle but i love joshua van man i love the story I love his fighting style too man fundamental good hits hard stays tight in the pocket and just does all the right things man I love watching that guy fight so I'm pretty excited for that and you know I've said this for a long time too right like Pantoja does not get the credit he

deserves man how many title defenses he has now four or five like four or five yeah yeah and he's hardly talked about at all man you know and I think it's you know partially because of the weight class, the opponents, things that, you know, he doesn't have the storyline, doesn't have the big, what do you say, you know, big rivalry. You know, it doesn't have none of that stuff.

Just kind of flies under the radar, but keeps fucking winning, man. Keeps getting it done. Love watching him fight. So this would be an interesting one. There's a reason why Pantoja was calling out Demetrius Johnson because he just doesn't have like that name or anything right now. But listen, I'm not backing away from him. I'm picking Joshua Van for the upset.

I think he's got, I just love his attitude, man. He's just like, I love that, like, I don't give a fuck attitude. Now, maybe that's going to backfire on him, but I look at, like, what car, you know, I wasn't a big guy on Kai Kar-France getting a title shot anyways, but he did, and he fought afraid. He fought not to lose. He fought, like, I can't get. Which is not his style.

And he got submitted. He got taken out by Pentosia. I just like Van's attitude. He's like, I'm not supposed to be here. I was taking a short notice fight against Brandon Roy Vall, and no one gave me a chance to win. They're like, oh, cool story. You took a fight on a three weeks notice after you. just won a fight in May and now

you're turning around fighting three weeks later. Cool story. You're going to lose, but cool story. And they went out there and styled on Brandon Roy Vaughal, which is impossibly hard to do. I'm going to Joshua Van, man. I'm going to pick the upset. I don't know how he's going to do it, but I'm like, there's just something about this kid, man. You've got to have an upset every now and again.

I'm picking him to get the upset. All right, all right. I'm going to stick with Pantoja on that one. Just the experience thing, man. He's been around for a long time. He's done a lot of big things. I think that experience is going to pay off and man he's he's maybe unknockable out right like unknock outable yeah yeah yeah man that guy is a tough man he is so tough so I think uh I got to go with him but boy I think

at I think at I think at some point Josh Van will be a champion though I just don't think it's his time yet do you think there's a world where Pintoja could pass Demetrius as the greatest flyweight could it happen he's got a lot of long way to go right you know because the the other part about that too is like the way that demetrius won fights and how good he looked all the time you know he's so clean it's so technical and does so many things and pantosia definitely is not that guy right so he the only way that he's going to surpass them i think in the in in in the eyes of the public is the the number on paper the title defenses, right? So he's, was that 12 that the DJ had?

11, 11, so he had to get to 12. Yeah, so Pantosia has to get 12. So he's still got, what, eight more to go. And I think Pantosia is like, I want to let me, I'm not, I don't want to miss quote here to see how old he is, but I think Pantosia is like 37 or something like that. He is 35. So, yeah, he's coming. He turns 36 next year. So you're not a young guy either. Yeah, so I don't think it's impossible. I mean, there's not, you know, it's not the toughest division ever, right? You know, never has been. So, You also, I think you also have to consider wins and losses. Like, Demetri's had won against Henry Sehudo.

That was a very close fight that, you know, a lot of people argued he won. You look at Pantosia, he does have losses on his record. He lost to Ascar, Ascar. Remember that guy? He lost to Deveson Federato. He lost to Dustin Ortiz. I completely forgot about that fight. I'm looking at his record right now.

But, I mean, he's got, listen, Kioji Horaguchi's back. That's a really fun one. He looked phenomenal in his return. But my biggest critique of Demetri is when I talk about all-time rankings always comes down to level of competition because I'm sorry like at that point like flyweight just didn't have I like rayborg I do and I like Chris Carrioso but I just don't think they're in the same you know stratosphere of like when John Jones is wrecking your rampage and Rashad all those guys or like a George St. Pierre but when it comes to flyweight by

itself man it's going to take a lot to surpass Demetrius Johnson you're not even talking about title defenses like 11's ridiculous I'm talking about how dominant he was and the way he took people out and he didn't lose. I mean, he lost one time. He lost a, he lost an interview to a fight that a lot of people believe he won. I'm not saying he can't do it. I'm just saying like, Pantosia is going to have to do a lot for me

to ever put him, and I'm not knocking the guy. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. His really only way he does that is by the numbers. Right? Like, he doesn't have the style, probably not even the skill set realistically, to style on people the way the DJ did,

right? To do the amazing submissions, you know, the arm bars from the back mat returned. And, you know, yes, it's a numbers game. It's his only chance, I think.

This is, by the way, I just checked, this is his fifth off defense. You're right. He's still six away from Demetrius. Yeah, yeah. He's only halfway there.

You know, not even halfway there yet. So, yeah. And it's not, it's also, I mean, to your point, it's also not the same division it was. It's still one of the week divisions without question right but it's not the division that it was back then like said all respect to ray borg like you know that's not joshua van right like it's a it's a

different world now and of course they're going to you know the division will keep building up too yeah well we'll see i and by the way i i'm picking vans i got to pick an upset but in my head of heads in my heart of hearts i you know pentosia should win this fight i know he should win this fight but you know got to pick an upset every now and again i like joshua van so hey i think Joshua Van has a great shot to win the fight. But kind of what you're talking about, like with his mentality and his youth, you know, I think that's the disadvantage. But it could turn into an advantage, too, right?

But I think if the fight goes long and Pantosia, again, like, I mean, I think he's just so tough, man. He just takes shots so well, and he's able to keep coming back and find ways to win. That's where I think it's going to be hard because I don't think Josh Van is used to that, especially in a five-round setting. Yeah, we'll see. It's going to be an interesting match. I'm not not saying we had to break this one down, but Brandon

Marino, Tatsuia Tire. That's a really fun fight on the main car, too. So, interesting. I had a chance to chat with Brandon Marino a couple days ago. He's super excited. It might be the only guy I know that collects more shit than I do. I have a lot of shit collected. He's a big collector, too. Good stuff. So, obviously, Matt, we'll talk next week about

the fallout from this, and we got one more UFC card this year. Next week with Brandon Royval and Manel That's actually a really fun fight. Apex fight, unfortunately, but really fun fight. So I have one more fight card this year. I know we are going to kind of set people's expectations. We are going to do a show next week.

We're going to do a show leading into Jake Paul and Anthony Joshua, the fight that I know everyone's excited about. And we're going to do a quick wrap-up show because you're going on vacation after that. So we're going to do a quick wrap-up show for Paul because Joshua. They'll probably be off for a couple weeks. And then we come back in the new year, obviously we have to wait until January 24th for a UFC show. So we got a lot of time. And that's when we'll do our, we always do our champions now who's going to be champions at the end of the year conversation.

So we'll do our predictions podcast at the beginning of the next year. So we'll have a couple weeks off at the end of this year. But we get a pretty lengthy break. We got UFC, UFC fight night on November or December 12th or whatever it is. And then we don't have another card until January 24th. We basically have six weeks of no UFC shows. It's going to be kind of weird. Do you have our picks from last year of who would be champion at the end of the year?

I'll find them. I'll find them and dig them up. So we'll see how right or wrong we are. I always seem to be wrong in those, so we'll see how we did with those. But I'll pull up with us. It's so unpredictable, right? I mean, who picked Islam to be 170 champ this year, right?

Yeah. You know, I'm sure we all picked I'll be champion at the end of this year. And I don't know if that'd be considered right or wrong answer, you know? Yeah, well, we'll see. I'll dig it up before we do that show. So we'll be doing it. So I have a couple more shows this year, uh, wrapping up.

And then obviously we'll do the Jake Paul, um, Anthony Joshua Aftermath for a quick episode before you go on vacation. and then we'll come back in the new year and do our prediction for the rest of the years. We got a pretty good-sized break for UFC shows. So give us a time to jump on that and kind of talk about the year ahead and see what we got going on.

So we'll do that. So that's going to be our show schedule. Matt, people want to check you out, support you. Where can they go? What can they do? At I'm the immortal, Instagram and Twitter, The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook, and check out the creatine at Vita Fuel. That's V-I-T-A-P-H-E-L.

What else are I got? Man, I got so much stuff always. That's it for nationally recognized things for now, I think. There you go. And obviously, we want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes in the show. Make sure to check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify. And, of course, over on the website, the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com.

For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We will see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in, and we will see you then. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From deaf and power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem.

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