MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to UFC White House Card, Francis Ngannou Fighting for MVP and Charles Oliveira Mauling Max Holloway

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to the UFC White House card announcement and if this event is underwhelming based on the promises made by the promotion. Was Ilia Topuria vs. Justin Gaethje the best main event possible? Plus we’ll talk about Francis Ngannou signing with MVP to compete on the Ronda Rousey vs. Gina Carano card and Charles Oliveira mauling Max Holloway in the UFC 326 main event plus much more! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we are back after kind of a weird weekend because we had UFC 326. Didn't quite play out the way a lot of people thought it would. But we did get some big announcements. We got the UFC White House card. And we also found out today that Francis Ngano is no longer into PFL and he's fighting on the rousy Corona cards.

So like all the big news weirdly didn't come from the UFC, what, pay-per-view, whatever you quote unquote want to call it. The big news, I think the biggest news, of course, was the White House card. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, of course, that was the biggest news of the weekend. And I'm sure we got a lot to talk about on that note, right? Yeah, I mean, like, we knew it was coming. Dana said all week, I'm going to drop the White House card. It ends up being six fights. And the main event is Ilya Tepori and Justin Gagchi. I'm sure everyone's heard all the rumors. They were working on this. They were working on that. Gachi said as of like two days ago he wasn't on the card and Dana said last night neither

Ilya or Justin were supposed to be on the card so I don't know what other main event they were supposedly working on they were claiming John Jones was never going to be part of it I've heard a lot of things and at this point it's kind of pointless like I really know why you speculate speculate oh it was going to be Islam in Ilya it was going to be John Jones and Pereira well it didn't happen so I know I mean I don't know how much it matters to say oh they we're working on this, working on that. Clearly it didn't happen, so I don't know why it matters. But Ilya versus Justin Gagee is the main event.

Alex Pereira getting Cyril Ghan in an interim heavyweight title fight in the co-main event. Sean O'Malley and Amos is a hobby. He's got to be one of the weirdest. Weirdest been a bit of matchmaking. Michael Chandler taking on Maricio Rufi. You got Bo Nicol and Kyle Dachas, which is another kind of random one. And of course, Steve Garcia getting Diego Lopez to open the cards. So six fights deep.

Matt, what was your initial reaction when you saw the White House announcement? Man, I mean, initially when I first, you know, looked through the card, I mean, I was not impressed at all, right? And, you know, Ariel was saying it the other day, you know, like, oh, well, you know, we set our expectations so high. Like, this is a great card. And like, it's a good card. Like, it truly is. my kind of issue, I guess, with the card, if my problems with this card mean anything,

was, like, they set the expectations high. Right. And on top of that, probably like the bigger thing that kind of bother me is like, this is a once in a lifetime event that every UFC fighter on the roster wanted to fight at. Like, I don't think there's a single person.

It's like, I don't want to fight at the White House on this historic event. And they got guys that, like, I've never even heard of. I forgot, I mean, I remember who they are after I kind of thought about it for a minute, but like, like Zahabi, I was like, who the hell is that guy? And then it was, oh, yeah, that's Frost's brother or cousin or whatever he is. And Kyle Dawkins, I actually don't know who Kyle Dawkins is, as a matter of fact. But it's like, what did these guys do to earn the right to get on this card when every single person

If they called me and asked me to be on the card, I'd have a hard time saying no, right? They called Dustin Porre. Like, he'd probably be like, you know what? It's a fucking White House. Let's go. But they got these guys that it just doesn't add up to me why they did that. And even Ruffy, I mean, I think he's a great fighter.

And I think they're all great bikes from top to bottom. I think, you know, who knows how it's going to play out, right? but like what's like what's the point of these guys fighting on this card we know I think we kind of took this is this going to be a special card the once-of-the-lifetime thing this is going to be special every fight's going to have some meaning I mean they were the ones saying six to seven title fights it's going to be the greatest card ever and all this if they would have brought in Brock Lesner and see him punk like I would have been more less surprised right I would have been, I would be like, yeah, okay, that's what they do, right?

They're going to put on something crazy that everyone wants to watch. But like Diego Lopez and Hussi fight, I can't remember. Steve Garcia, Steve Garcia, yeah, like, what does that even mean? Like, what does that have to do with anything? It's, you're right. This is the UFC's own fault. Yeah, they're coming out saying it's going to be the greatest card ever. And then you got Trump saying, you know, nine title fights or a ridiculous number they were saying.

and yeah they're all talking about like it's going to be and and by any standard what does trump think about this what when he looked at the card if he's like hey we got michael chandler that's cool yeah um by any measure of today which is kind of an indoctrination of like where we're at in the ufc today by any standard measure this feels like a good card like ilya tippori is a star justin gaichi is a pretty good star now competitively illy is going to be like a five to one favorite you You know what I mean? And rightfully so. So it's kind of like, what's better,

Ilya being on the card or Ilya actually have a competitive fight. I don't know how competitive anyone would be against him outside of Armin and Islam. But, hey, he is a star. And clearly you're not trying to jockey for an American to win because Gae is going to be a massive underdog in that fight. Now, I really do like, I mean, if we're not going to get John Jones, I really do like the Pereira Cyril-Gahn fight. That's a good fight. And it perfectly, you know, if Alex wins, it's going to set up a, I mean,

that will be a massive fight with him and tom aspinall or gone in there on that the the the surreal prayer fight yes it's a good fight but like it dude just how many title shots is this for gone now five i think five total five title five title shots and who is he beat to get these titles i mean i know the initial title shot like you know he had a little run and did some good things but it's like they just keep putting them back in these title shots and you you basically have two uh other guys that are in the heavyweight division that are not fighting. And I know I'm being on negative Nancy here, but like I kind of don't really like what they are what's going on here.

You know, you have Pereira who's never fought at heavyweight who's deservedly, you know, because of the state of the heavyweight division, not necessarily because he's done anything to deserve a heavyweight title shot, but the state of the heavyweight division to put anybody who's got a chance in there, you know, against a surreal gun. where you have two other guys, Tom Aspinall and John Jones, who are probably, like, way more likely to be a winner's or actual champions, right?

Which, I mean, Tom is obviously the actual champion, and I'm guessing this is going to be an interim title. And then you got, and then you got Gagy, who's never beat Armand Sarukin, right? Like, Serukin is the rightful contender to that title. So it's just that kind of rubs me the wrong way. But again, that's just my negative Nancy side coming in. No, I mean.

It's a great fight, so I'm not going to take that away. Go ahead. It's not like, but here's the thing. Like, by today's standards, this is a pretty decent card. Like, you know, if this was International Fight Week a month later, we'd be like, you know, that's not bad. Ilya and Justin, like, you know, whether it's deserved it or not, what is deserved or not, the fact is Justin's got the interim title,

you've got to settle that. And he did go out there and beat the brakes off Patty Pimble. That was a very good win. So, sure, you know, like that's not a bad. bad fight. And like I said, I don't mind with Tom Aspinall out and if you're not going to get John Jones. And by the way, I wouldn't want John Jones in a title fight anyway,

because you know he's not going to stick around. Like, we know he's got maybe one fight left, if even that. So, like, I don't mind that he's not involved in the title fight. It's him not being involved at all, which is kind of weird. But, you know, Cyril Ghan, you know, the heavyweight division is a barren wasteland. I mean, Francis and Gano is coming back and he's fighting Felipe

Lens. I mean, come on now. There's just not a lot of options at heavyweight. So I don't mind that one, but then, like I said, go further down the card. I mean, like, Rufie and Chandler's a kind of a weird one. Like, Chandler obviously hasn't, hasn't had a great run lately. And Rufie's just coming off that spectacular knockout in his last fight. And I know he had that kind of a stinker before that, but like, he's a guy that had that wheel kick knockout over Kevin over Bobby Green or Bobby King. And, like, on paper, like, Rufie should be a pretty heavy favor to beat Chandler,

like, based on where they're at in their career. So, like, you're not, so Chandler's not being set up for a win, although, you know, it's Chandler. He could always, you know, uncork one. win a fight. And then like, once again, like, Bo Nicol being on the card, makes sense. He's an American guy. I know he's buddies with Trump. Like, okay. But then like, and it's not even I have a problem with Kyle Dacus. I like Kyle Dacus a lot. Kyle Dacca is a good fighter. He's come back and look great. But it's just like a weird, like out of nowhere matchmaking. Like, I guess they're not trying to, like, they're trying to get Boe to win, I guess. But like, Dawkins is no joke. And if he wins, like, what are you gaining from that?

Actually, weirdly, I think my favorite fight on the card is Diego Lopez and Steve Garcia, not because it's actually big, but because Steve is a banger. That guy goes out there and puts on great fights, has a huge knockout streak, and he's finished, like, his last, like, six or seven opponents in a row, and he's in the rankings, and he's, like, top ten of featherweight. Now, name value, it doesn't add a whole lot, but, like, it's going to be a banger. It's going to remind you a lot of, like, Jean Silva and Diego Lopez. Like, that could be a real, real banger.

And then, like, Amon, I have no problem with Amon's a hobby. He's not a bad fighter, but, like, Corey Sandhagen was right there. Yeah. Like, how are you, like, what are we doing here? Like, Sean Amel. Are they just trying to get Sean O'Malley a win? Because, like, I mean, and he may lose. Who knows?

Zombies not a bad fighter. But, like, we're trying to build an entertaining card. You had San Hagen begging for the O'Malley fight. How, like, that is a perfect White House fight. Because you know it's going to be a good card. And O'Malley is a star in his own right. Makes a lot of sense. But, like, this is on the UFC.

Like, they built this up. Once again, we talked about this is the U.S. 2-300 when they're like, it's going to be the great. greatest card ever and then ends up being prayer and Jamal Hill, we're all like, I mean, yeah, it's not a bad fight, but like it isn't what you, you know, you made out to be like it was going to be Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carano versus Brock Lesnar and a two-on-one match or some shit. Like, they built it up so big. And all the people talking about like, like,

the Connor McGregor of it all, and Dana, you know, basically all the rumors are he's going to get kicked to international fight week, assuming Connor ever fights again. I know you have an opinion on that one, Matt. But like everyone's saying, Connor produces too much revenue. to put them on the White House card. But they're not producing extra revenue because it's just going to be on Paramount Plus. They're already getting their $1.1 billion per year for that. It's not like you're selling pay-per-view.

If this was 2025, I'd get it. You know what I mean? Like where you know Conn, like putting it on free TV versus on pay-per-view where Connor would sell, you know, I don't know, like a million or a million to have pay-per-view, sure, that's not the case anymore. You're still making the same money off discard that you would have offered the next one.

So like I said, by any standard measure of today, UFC, which, you know, we can say that's already a compromised term by today's standards, this is not a bad card. But it's just like, there's just so many confusing fights. And, like, they could have put Gable Stevenson on here to wreck some random dude. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I would have been like, and that's not, I'm not knocking Sean O'Malley and Amos a hobby or Bo Nickel and Kyle Doccas, but I, I, a thousand times over, I would have

rather seen Gable come in there and wreck some random dude as a heavyweight than those. because at least I'm like, here's the next star. Like get him on there. He's a gold medalist. You know, let him debut on that card. It's just weird matchmaking. Yeah. Ultimately, I mean, I just think it's indicative of where the UFC is these days

and the way that they're doing fights. They just promote and market fights, assuming that everybody's going to watch and it's going to do gigantic numbers. And I mean, I think they're right also. I mean, you know, every, every corporation or business changes when they go public, right? And they got bought by TKO and they're, they're beholden to their investors now and they have to put on these big fights

and they have to do it or they have to put on these fights and they have to do it in the right way. So they save Connor if he ever comes back, which I still don't think he will, but save him for something big. You know, some of their other stars, they have to save for, like John Jones, if he ever does fight again, which he may or may not we don't know but if they want to save him for something big

so i think done are the days of the mega cards right i mean i think they just know like we're all going to watch it like like i mean they put they could put on everybody watched last weekend every right every ufc fan and i mean there was really only uh one meaningful fight not that the other fights were bad or anything i mean i thought there was some really good bites over the weekend. But the Holloway-Oliver fight was really the only one that was selling the card, right? No one was watching for the other fights.

And I just think that's just indicative of where the UFC is at these days. And that's the new norm that we're going to have to get used to. I mean, I think you nailed it. We talked about this, whatever was like a month ago. I think you nailed it. You said, like, you expected the card to be underwhelming because the UFC just doesn't have the stars. they once had. You know, this isn't the days where, you know, Connor and Rhonda and you still had,

like, a legit heavyweight division and you had, you know, guys and girls who could really sell cards. You know, I think, like, the reality is, is like, this probably is just about the best card they could put on based on who's around. I mean, outside of John Jones, which, like, John Jones would have been good, but, like, I get it. Like, they're talking about his hips are shot and he is, you know, 39 now, and I don't know what they offered him, what kind of money they were talking about, or how much.

deep they got in that negotiation. Dana's trying to sell it like it was never going to happen. I don't know if that's true. But I mean, I think like that this sounds like the most backhand and compliment ever, but it's almost like I think this is probably just about the best card they could have built. Like there's not like. I like to. I would say the same thing.

But I think we cut maybe we got a little bit spoiled with like, you know, UFC 200 bringing in Brock Lesnar, right? Or bringing in seeing Pong back in the day. You know what I mean? Like we got a little. bit spoiled with things like that and we kind of came to expect like dude these guys can do crazy stuff and and and we don't really know what to expect and this was kind of again it was just underwhelming it's like okay you got a good fight card and that's cool right like we're going to

watch it and we're going to enjoy it and it's probably going to be some really good fights i mean i think prayer gone is an amazing fight i mean that's a it's a fight i really love to see i just hate it like i'm just over the whole interim title thing you know especially like how long's tom aspin all even been out what a couple months i mean since october he's not even out six months yet yeah yeah i mean we don't know when he's coming back right so um you know he could be back in another couple months right so you know and then you know of course you got john jones lurking out there who's you know i i i guess like if you made the interim title with john jones i'd almost be like more okay with it because it's like That's fucking John Jones, right?

Right. But, you know, I don't know, man. Just this whole interim title thing is just, I don't know. I'm just kind of over it, you know? It doesn't do it for me. And, you know, they talk about like, oh, boxing has too many titles and blah, blah, blah. It's like, you guys got so many. You guys are floating more titles all the time.

I feel like you just making shit up. Like, I mean, you know, even just this weekend with like a BMF title, which, I mean, We've talked about that a million times before, right? Like, what the fuck's a BMF title anyway? You know, are you the baddest motherfucker if you don't have the real title? Clearly not. Yeah. Yeah, like, it's just, like I said, they set the expectations too high and that's on them.

Like, that's not like when people are like, because I asked like on Twitter on Saturday, I said grade this card. Most people were pretty generous, you know, bees and that I saw some Cs in there, which is, you know, average by, but I think everyone's grading it based on the expectation. Like they're saying this is going to be the greatest card ever. We're building the most amazing card that's ever been seen. And as I said, if this was just a regular pay-per-view, this was International Fight Week in July, we'd be like, yeah, pretty good.

Like, we'd still be like, why is Sean O'Malley fighting Amos a hobby? And why is Bo Nichael fighting Kyle Dacca's, like, you know, whatever. But we'd be like, you know what, Ilya's back. You know, Ilya's a star. Ilya is, you know, one of the best guys in the world. And seeing him perform is always going to be fun, even if he is going to be like a five to one favorite. And then gone and Perey is legitimately a fun fight.

Perey going to heavyweight is really the story because if he wins, I mean, that's just a big deal with him being a three-division champion of some sort, even if it's interim. And then obviously setting up what I think would be a pretty massive fight with Tom Aspinall. But like I said, by today's standards, it's pretty good card. That's pretty solid. That's pretty good card.

Ilya and Alex are two of the bigger stars on the roster, even though, again, maybe the fights aren't the most compelling or the ones you really want to see. Yeah, pretty good. But like I said, they're selling it to us like it is going to be the most blockbuster event that's ever been made. They set themselves up for failure. That's the problem.

They had announced Rhonda and Gina would all be like, whoa, like, what in the hell? But, like, that was our reaction when they announced that finally. We're all like, okay, these two haven't fought for 20-some odd years, but it's a big fight. And we were talking to buzz around that, and people lost their minds talking about that. that's what we expected for this car. Like, I'm not saying they had to bring Brock Lesnar out of retirement or, but like, if they had done Islam and Illy, if they had done Islam and Ili, they somehow pulled that one off, that would have been like, whoa, didn't see that coming. Or if they had done John Jones and Prayer, even though we talked about it for months, they're like, wow, they got it done. Like, they're making Jones and prayer.

Wow, what a big deal. This one, like, when it's announced, you're like, yeah, it's not a bad car, but like, it's not what you built it up to be. You're telling me it's going to be the greatest thing ever. And you're like, yeah, it's all right. It's pretty good car. Yeah. And I think John Jones wanted more money than they're willing to give, right? And especially you got to wonder if this little Connor Ben situation didn't play a role in that.

And then ultimately, like kind of what I was getting at before, with this being a public company now and Endeavor owning them, or TKO group, however it works, you know, I think what has happened is just the, that when these matchmakers come together in the board room or the meeting room, the conference room, and they're putting together these matchups, I just think that whole puzzle, chest board has changed, where before it was like, the fans want to see this fight, the fans want to see this fight, we got to see if we can get this guy to fight this guy.

I know this guy wants to fight this guy. And I think now there's just another piece of the puzzle that we're not taken into account. And I think that that piece is probably finances, right? And investor, what the investors want versus what the fans want. And I mean, I just seen a thing earlier today where the investors got, what, $150 million payout or something, dividends or something? Yeah. I mean, that's more than the entire year of UFC payouts for the fighters. So, you know, so that's who they're, they're really, you know, beholden to these days.

And that's why I think, again, I think that little war room that they're in where they're trying to put these fights together has just changed significantly. and it doesn't it wouldn't surprise me if Dana really isn't involved with what he said he's not so it wouldn't surprise me at all because I do think he is ultimately still a fight fan like he always has been and he wants to see the great matchups whereas he brought in other guys like hunter campbell that understand probably more of the business side of things and how this can you know the financially versus ROI and all these different things that they're putting together when they're trying to make matchups. And I just don't think that they're sitting down like they probably did at some point

and say this is what the fans are going to want and this is what we're going to give them. Well, and also another thing, and this is not in any way shape of reform defending the EOC, I just probably think this is part of why we got the card we got, is the reality is the spectacle of this is being on the South Law of the White House, and it's airing on a Sunday night. And, of course, they're probably going to have, like, Trump in the Octagon, like, announcing the event like you know here we are at the White House blah blah blah

fighters walking from the Oval Office it almost feels like that is the main event like what's it going to look like what's the stage going to look like what's it going to look like outdoors I don't I don't remember when the last time I had an outdoor U.S.C event you know all these little things are going to be like

that's going to be getting the attention like you know is Trump going to walk out with somebody or they you know where are they walking from the Oval Office and we're going to see like real cool walkouts and what's it going to look on the lawn and how 4,000 people like, what's that going to look like on the lawn of the White House?

They're building bleachers or whatever. That's going to end. And the reality is there's going to be a lot of people who are not MMA fans who are going to watch just because it's on the White House lawn. It's a spectacle. It's a big event. And right now, obviously, the world's, you know,

in a lot of things going on with the whole Iran thing. But like, all the normal, all the regular casual politician people or political people, sports people, they're just going to want to watch it to be like, wow, this is something I've never seen before because it's on the South Law of the White House. So there's probably part of the EO.C. We don't really care what the

card is. People are going to tune in because it's going to be this insane card regardless of who's on the card. Now, is it a good enough card? Sure. I mean, there's a couple of decent fights on here and a couple bangers. And, you know, they did load it with a lot of Americans, which we kind of, you know, kind of expected them to do.

But, like, I don't think they care because they know people are going to tune in because it's a spectacle. It's at the White House. So, like, for what it is, it's not a bad card. It's just there are mismatches that don't make a lot of sense. Like the O'Malley-Amen fight in the main event, you're like, all right. And that's the part that I was going to add in next.

The other part of that is, again, they know we're all going to tune in, right? And we've heard Dana say it a million times. Like, when people say, don't want to, he's like, well, don't fucking watch. you know the the best fights are not always you know the biggest fight card that a lot of times it's the kind of the unknowns and the point is what I think what they were trying to get at here with even with some of the quote unquote mismatches was what they wanted was great fights right and I think all of these fights are going to be either really good fights or end and finishes right like we would anticipate most of these guys like shot O'Malley's probably going to

finish the hobby right and it's probably not going to be a you know which i mean i think him and cori would make a great fight too i don't i can't for life of me understand why they didn't make that fight right yeah but like you know chanler's going to go banging you know gipore is going to bang you know that prayer god's going to be so ultimately like what they have is a card of fights that's that's more than likely going to end up being great fights and then after it's all over then Dana could come to the post-fight press conference. See, you guys wanted, you know, John Jones and Connor, but look at the car, bro.

It worked out great. Like, we had amazing fights. Look at all these knockouts, all these finishes. And to the casual fan, that's really what they care about, right? Like, that's all they want to see is blood and great fights and just bleed and all this shit. It's us who are avid fans who study the sport and watch it every week and probably more than we need to

and probably wasted tons of money and tons of time in our life watching this shit they're like like dude we wanted the fucking bomb we wanted the fucking bangers and you know for name name value and stuff and

and what we got was probably a bunch of good fights yeah and that's not a bad thing I mean it is what it is and I think we all had to kind of temper our expectations a little bit in terms of like what you said before is right like they don't have the stars they once had. So it's like, A, like, who is actually going to be on there? And B, like, the reality is, like, they did give us fights. Like, even though Ili is going

to be a massive favorite over Gachie, you know that's going to be a banger for as long as it lasts. I mean, you know, him and Olavera was banger for about a minute and a half till he knocked him out and maybe the same thing will happen to Gachi. I don't know. But you know it's going to be an exciting finish. Either Ilya's going to knock him dead or Justin's going to pull off some kind of massive upset and be delayed to Pori, which Gachie's incapable of a boring fight. So, like, whether it lasts one minute or the last 25 minutes, you know it's going to be a crazy fight. And I think that's ultimately

going to matter more to the EOC in the long run than booking Ilya against Armin, which is a more deserving fight. But that one could end up being Armand grapple fucking Ilya for 25 minutes and winning the title and you're like, wow, like, great, Ilya got a shot and he won, but how exciting was that

fight? You know Ilya and Justin's going to be exciting. It may last 45 seconds, but it's going to be an exciting 45 seconds. I think gone in prayer has the most potential because of like who prayer is and in terms of like gone being a heavyweight and all that kind of stuff. You know, Chandler, like, love him or hate him. He's going to go out there and bang. Like, he's going to go out there. Now, he may get knocked out in a minute and have two.

He may get mauled like he did against Patty Pimbled. But he'll go out there and put on a show. And like I said, I actually really like Steve Garcia and Diego Lopez. There's just not a little name value there. So, yeah, like, you're probably right. Like, they're looking at this thing. We want six fights, six finishes. on a Sunday night.

We want to give you exciting fights. And the reality is, I don't know what else they would have done. Like, you know, would Islam and Ilya have been the biggest fight they could promote right now, like in terms of who's under contract outside of Connor? Yeah. But, you know, it is what it is. It's not happening. And, you know, Justin's got the interim title.

So, like, you know, it's, like I said, it's not a bad card. It's just not what was promised. Yeah. And I'll tell you what I expected was a big name on every fight. You know what I mean? And it's just not really. really what we got. I mean, I think there's a ton of other fights that they could have made. I mean, I think

they could have brought in Armin. I think they could have gave Gage somebody else. I think they could have brought in Marab, you know, would be a great one. Because, I mean, I know there's an American on every every fight here. Outside of prayer, outside of prayer gone. Yeah, outside of prayer gone.

But like, does there even have to be? I don't know. I mean, I guess that's kind of, you know, the other side of the argument, right? But, you know, because they don't have a ton of American stars, I guess, be the bigger issue. They have enough stars that they could pack a six, seven, fight card with just

stars, right? But, you know, they bring in Hamzot, right? I mean, the list goes on and bring in Izzy. I mean, the list goes on and on of guys that they could have brought in. But if they have to be American stars, then, you know, you're looking at a different thing there. And I just, I don't think it really has to be.

You know, I think the American stars could be, you know, the top two or three fights and then fill the rest with You know, just really, really good fights. Uh, where are my gloves? Come on, heat. Any day now? Winter is hard, but your groceries don't have to be.

This winter, stay warm. Tap the banner to order your groceries online at voila.ca. Enjoy in-store prices without leaving your home. You'll find the same regular prices online as in-store. Many promotions are available both in-store and online, though some may vary. Yeah. That is what it is. I mean, like you said, we're all going to watch.

And I'll be honest, like, this is still a more, like, in terms of, like, better fights, like this is going to be a better card than the Corona Rousy card because, like, that would be. I don't even know what to expect in that fight. Like, we're talking about two women who haven't fought in a combined, like, 27 years. And then you got, you know, they announced today, Francis Ngano and Felipe Lins. I'm like, wow, like, okay, so we get to watch the Phillie Lins get nuked into the fourth. Well, yeah, what happened with Felipe Lins? I never heard the name, but I heard he had won four fights in the UFC and then got released.

Yeah, he just wasn't exciting. It was very, like, kind of like, he'd fight and win. You'd be like, all right, and you forget about it two minutes later. He was just kind of like that dude. Is he a wrestler, like a takedown guy? I mean, he just, yeah, he's kind of well-rounded, but like, yeah, just like nothing stood out. Like, he got nuked in his first two fights. He lost Arlovsky and somebody else, and then he came back into, like, a four-fight win streak.

And they just didn't resign him. I don't think he necessarily got quote-unquote released. just didn't resign him. And they're like, all right, you can go do some else. Here's the funny thing about that fight. Felipe Lince hasn't fought since March 2024. Ingonne who fought in October 2024. Like, it feels like Ngon has been out of MMA for a while and Felipe

Linz has been out even longer. Like, and this is not, I don't want to turn this into like, let's, I'm not bad, certainly not bashing Francis in Ghana. Like, you got a big paycheck. And, like, when PFL released in my bigger gripe was with PFL, is like, what was a point of this? Like, you signed him and you allowed him to go? box, which is fine. I'm glad he did that. He lived his dream. But then

he invites Hayden-Ferreira and just absolutely destroys him. And then he just sits on the sidelines for the next year and a half. We haven't seen him. He got paid and that's good. But like, they didn't like they sold a billion pay-per-views because Francis fought. We said that a million times over. Like Francis was never a big star. And then he gets released and it's like, what did PFL really get out of this? Like really what they got out of it was signing him away from the UFC. That was the bigger news not to fight or what he actually ended up doing. And then Felipe Linz

is a decent enough heavyweight, but good Lord. And I know options are limited. Like I get it. You're not going to sign Kane Velasquez coming out of prison and be like, you're going to fight Nagano in a rematch. I understand. Like that just speaks to how bad heavyweight is right now. But I would have rather seen Gable Steveson fight Francis and Gondon.

At least then there's some intrigue. But like yeah, like, so like in terms of fight value, in terms of fight value, the White House is much better. But like the name value, who goes to like crano rousey because like people are going to tune in because the name's not because they actually expect a good fight right right it just sucks for Francis igano because i mean as good as he is and as great things he's done i mean you know he's in a situation where the

all of the promotion and marketing that he can get i mean in boxing he did you know some a lot of promoting his name value increased largely but his name value is not going to increase largely without UFC, right? Yeah. I mean, you could do it, I think, to some extent, in like maybe one FC, right, if you're fighting some really good guys. But, you know, in the heavyweight division around the world, I mean, who is there even for him to fight? And Francis's name on his own doesn't carry enough to carry the fight, right? I mean, even though he's going to be the A side, like, it's not a big enough A side. He needs a B side. And he doesn't have one. He's got C. and D and F sides, right?

And that's a big issue. And I think that's ultimately, I think that's why PFL released up. I think that they had expected his name to carry more weight than it did. And once he left UFC, people didn't really care in terms of M and MA. Right? When he went to box, he wasn't the A side, right? When he went to the, he boxed Tyson and Joshua. He was not the A side.

And he is not an A side guy. He needs a rival. And there's, I mean, I don't know of any rivals out there that would, you know, be a good B-side for him. Well, you have to remember, like, I was thinking about this, like, what they're probably paying, Francis. I have to imagine to pay them a pretty hefty price to come to be on that show. But I was thinking about, like, the affliction days. When Affliction launched, they had, like, two shows, and their third show got canceled, they went out of business. And I remember when the salaries came out and we found out that Tim Sylvia made, like, 800 grand to fight Fador or whatever it was.

was like, oh my God, like, so much money for a guy who was, like, kind of got bounced out of the UFC. But the selling point was he was a former UFC champion. Exactly. And Fadour, of course, you know, most people consider him the greatest heavyweight of all time. He had Arlowski and Fadour, like, they had that fight, and Arlowski had some name value coming out of the UFC, former UFC heavyweight champion, things like that. But that's just not the case for heavyweight now. Like, there's just no, like, I said, Gable Stevenson would have been a better option just because I, you know, maybe you're setting up Gable for failure because he's literally like three and. and his fight career and he's going to take on Francis

and Gano, maybe he's not quite ready. Who knows? For failure, you know, against a 3-and-0 wrestler. Yeah, but like, who is there? Like, what are they going to do? Like, they're going to put him in there? Like, there's no option. That's the problem. Like, when we talked, and I saw somebody on Twitter talk about this, like, you know, how are we getting? I actually

brought it up. I was like, I'm not talking about money because like he's won the money game. Like, he won that. With Fury and, no, Joshua and whatever, P. PFO paid him for his first fight, whatever I heard, like $11 million. Like, he's good. Like, I'm not talking about money. but like and and i know legacy gets oversold because what value does that really add to you in the long run like people kind of forget about you down the road but you just wonder like how many at least decent fights do we miss out on an ingano with him being out of action for basically three years and now

his comeback fight is philippe lindsay he's talking about if i win maybe i'll get jake paul i'm just like yeah sure okay but like what do i care about that fight either so ingano's back great but like if ingano was back and he was fighting and he was fighting and he was you know, Brock Lesnar, he's fighting. I don't even know. Like, there's nobody really out there. But, like, I would have more intrigue if he came back to the UFC and it was Inganu versus Pereira.

That would get me excited. Like, that would be like, damn, now that's a banger because Pereira's like this lethal striker. And we know Engadu's got one bunch of knockout power. That would be interesting. It's Felipe Lins. Like, I forgot who he was. I mean, I know who he is, but I was like, I completely forgot he existed.

And then the fact that he's been out longer than Ingani. I'm like, what are we doing here? Like, how much are we paying this? guy so yeah like when you see that the fact is the fact is and it's unfortunate but we all we all know like ufc has the monopoly on this space and in m a right francis if he wants to do m mb he needs the ufc and obviously more than the ufc needs him right they're cool with it they're like we're not paying you that kind of money go do your thing whatever they i don't think they're he's not keeping them up at night right they're not they're not they're not they're not they're

not sweating him one bit. He needs them. And that's unfortunate to say, but it's a fact. Yeah. And you're right. Like, he needs a B-side. And Hain and Ferrer wasn't a B-side. Felipe Lins is an only B-side. His only real, the only, if you'd say regret, I wouldn't say regret, but if, like, I think had he fought in the UFC a little bit longer and got a few more big wins, I think his departure could have carried a little more value. You know what I mean? had he beat I don't know maybe John Jones right had he got to fight with John Jones and get to beat

him or even Pereira I don't know maybe Aspenol right like he just needed a little bit more before he left and then you know unfortunately you know losing to Joshua like that like I think put a big dent into the promotion side of Francis

and Gano no it absolutely did and the reality is like most people expected him to get absolutely dominated by Tyson Fury and then Tyson came and looking all sloppy, like he probably didn't train for 10 minutes before that fight, and ended up being much closer he had a knockdown. It was, oh, my God, that was, I think that was peak Francis right there. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't knocking out Steep A.

It certainly wasn't that decision against Cyril gone where he defended the title with a torn ACL impressive, but not a great fight. It was him pushing the limit on a Tyson Fury fight that no one expected to really be competitive. And yes, like, I'm not taking away the performance, but I'm just being honest to say, like I know that, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't the Tyson Fury that was like at the peak of his prime. Like, that wasn't the case when they fought. But he did take him to a close decision. He did knock him down in third round or whatever.

And that set up the Joshua fight where a lot of people are like, man, he could do well. Like Joshua doesn't like getting hit. And, you know, nuclear power. And he goes out there and just absolutely gets just demolished inside two rounds. So the boxing thing kind of goes away. And now you're back to MMA. But then who the hell are you going to fight the MMA? I don't know why he hasn't stuck with boxing.

I mean, even if he's got to go fight, you know, Dubois or, hell, if he can go fight Moises right now, I mean, you know, when he's up-and-combers or something, I think it would carry a lot of weight to get him back to being able to fight maybe. I mean, hell, Rico Verhoeven's coming into boxing fight and Ussick, you know, like go fight Rico Verhoeven. I'd be surprised if they wouldn't make a fight like that. I mean, that'd be a great fight to promote. You know, I'm just really surprised that. he's going to it feels like he's lowering himself right because look filippe lins like you said i'd never even heard his name before you hadn't heard his name in forever he's the one getting the promotion

out of this yeah right right right he's the one and if he goes in and wins he has nothing to lose he goes in it wins this is huge for him now his name is known and what's he going to do he goes in and beats phrase they got probably go fucking sign with the UFC right yeah he's going to be like hell yeah bro come on in think yeah you know i mean so he's got all the upside but Francis doesn't have any upside here. Well, and I understand, like, the prize fighting aspect. This is all about prize fighting, and I'm sure Inganu's getting cut a big paycheck, and I'm sure he's getting a big check to do this, and that's great.

But what is my interest level? No, I have, like, zero interest in this, because, like, on paper, Inganu should nuke this dude. Like, it should be, it would probably be over in a minute and a half. Felipe Lins was a guy who was going to drop the light heavyweight. Like, he isn't even a big heavyway. He's not he's going in there against this, like, world-class wrestler, or this huge guy. He's going in there against the guy

who's probably a light heavyweight who didn't have the greatest career in the UFC to the point where he's on a four-fight win streak and they're like, no, we're good, bro. See you later. Say what you will, but that says a lot right there. The UFC's like, you're on a four-fight win streak in the worst division in the sport.

We're good. See you, man. Have a good career. Like, what does that tell you about his career? They're like, yeah, we're good without you, man. Like, you know, like the gentleman's out of made a thing. We're like, no, bro, we're good. like you can go do your other thing like we're cool honestly that would be a good fight for

this to put got against frances right like that'd be something you'd at least be like hey man like this is a world-class fight you know yeah but it's just like such weird matchmaking and and this isn't the old days where like i said like you had the intrigue like you know where fador was out there or like you know vtor juiced out of this mind where you throw them in there in a heavyweight fight or something like there's just nothing there was nothing available and i'm glad You have to balance this because I am glad Francis is getting paid. Like, I legitimately am happy the guys getting paid. But my interest level in him coming back is like, yeah, I don't care at all.

Like, I couldn't possibly care less about this fight. So it's not compelling. I mean, if Linge pulls off the upset, sure. But, yeah, and they're getting it for name. Like, they're trying to sell it on name value. But the reality is, like, like you said, I don't know much name value or getting out of Francis and Gano in 2026. It almost feels like he's an afterthought.

And let's be honest, they can't, like, They could have filled this undercar with nobody's, and really everyone's tuning in for Rowsing Corona anyway, so it's almost like it doesn't really matter. But yeah, like, I don't know, like, where Francis goes. Like, he goes out in Nukesville-Filippe Lins. Well, clearly he's not coming back to the UFC. They have no interest in a reunion.

And also, Francis is 39. Like, he's turning 40 soon. Like, it's not like he's a young guy. Like, they're missing out on Gable Stevens at 25 years old. So, yeah, I mean, I'm glad he's back. Glad he's getting paid. Do I care? Not at all.

Yeah, it's hard to care And that's the downside Because it is Francis Ingano And I thought You know, he's got such a high ceiling And I think a lot of great things could Happen, a lot of fights that we'd want to see But now he's fighting guys

That we don't care if he fights Yeah And it sucks, it sucks to watch, man It does And like that's what I said like on paper Like I said this privately I'll say it again now Like Corona Rousey is going to crush

Probably every UFC card this year because Netflix has 300 some odd million subscribers, 325 million subscribers are just based on, people could literally just be like, eh, something's on, oh, it's Ronor Rousey, sure I'll watch this. And like I said, I mean, Mike Tyson did 110 million views or whatever it was, and nobody expected that to be a good fight, because Mike Tyson's 60 years old.

Like, we knew that way, but it was Mike Tyson's name. So, like, Corona Rousey is going to crush it in terms of viewership. Like, they were going to crush the White House card. I'm quite sure of it. But much like we said before, like, do I, really care do I really expect a good fight? I'm going to be like cringing the whole time like oh my god I hope this isn't the worst fight ever made so going back to the white house card like that is a much much better car like you're right there's a chance for some really spectacular finishes um but they just sold it as being like this they sold it as being carano rousey they're like oh my god we're gonna bring in like the greatest card ever but yeah carona roussies is like eh like yeah I mean we're gonna watch because we watch mike Tyson fight Jake Paul even though we knew it was going to be terrible uh But, you know, it is what it is. So, yeah, it's just a weird time in the sport.

And I'm happy Francis is getting paid. Like, ultimately, man, like, he's probably got generational wealth now more than he ever would have made in the UFC and good for him. But, like, do I care? Like, I didn't care about the Hane and Ferrarify either. I was like, yeah, he's going to go in there and crush this dude. He's going to go in there. We're going to see Francis going to nuke a dude in, like, a minute flat. Is it cool to see a guy getting knocked out?

Sure. But how much does that matter when you're fighting fully bed lens? Like if you're fighting Tom Aspinall, Cyril Ghan, Alex Pereira, John Jones, then it matters. Right now you're not going to Philebe-Lins. I'm like, eh, sure. You know, are you surprised or not surprised that one has never pursued? And I know they've kind of switched and they're not really pursuing MMA the way that they were before. And I'm actually, I'm going to be over there in April.

I might even ask some of the guys about this. Like, why didn't you guys go for Ingano, you know, and try to bring up some, heavy weights and, you know, start to make a little bit of a, because I think it would be really cool because they got, you know, he could do not just the MMA over there, which would be cool. I'm sure they could pay for Libby Lins, right, if they wanted him to come fight at Gano. And there's some, you know, some other guys, I'm sure they could bring in. And we know the Asians, like they love the big guys, right? They love the heavy weights.

I mean, pride showed that. I mean, that was, those were the biggest stars. But it would be cool because they could also do the kickboxing in Muay over at one. I don't think one could afford them. I think they're strapped like in terms of financially. I don't think they got a lot of money to operate with right now. They could play.

That's why you're doing like 14. That's why they're putting on 14 Muay fights because they're paying the boytai guys like 100 bucks. Like here you go, man. Here's a hundred bucks. Like they don't have. That's not the case because I would, I don't know if I was, I mean, I'm just putting myself with Chachishas out of upset.

I don't know the insides and outs there, but, you know, if I'm him, like, look, let's co-promote. Like, you, if, like, that's how, Francis and Gano is the type of guy that they could build something with to get into the American scene a little better, you know, especially if he's ever kickboxing and doing more time.

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a whole other subject, right? Because we don't know what the hell one's even doing. I mean, I would have, I would have a thousand times more interest in Francis fighting Anatoli Malik, than I ever would Felipe Linz. Now, the problem is the American audience doesn't really know Malikin. So you're like, you know, basically one-

No. Yeah, they know in Ghana. But, like, at least you can be like, oh, like, here's this Russian wrecking machine who is like, you know, built in the mold of a fador who can wrestle, hits like a truck, you know. Like, because I know Malikin called him out when I talked to Antioly, like a year, year and a half ago, like, he really wanted that fight. Or even, like, I know it sounds terrible.

Look, that's a fight that you bring to America. But even like, Rugger. I know they did like rug rug he was not Rug Rugged the other heavyweight guy like him and Ghana would be more fun than this one like yeah so that you know they've done a couple

shows here in America or they've tried right I think one or two they've canceled because they couldn't get enough ticket sales I know they did the one I think in Denver and like it was a shit show that you know like they gave away most of the tickets and but dude you do a show in Vegas with Ingano

and you know bring your guy Malikin or Rug, you know, whoever, right? And then that could help fucking spend the extra money and get for, uh, Rico Verhoeven in there also. And now you got Rico versus Francis and Gano. And now you bring in your guys on the undercar, Rod Tang, uh, Tao and Chai, you know, uh, Gregor, uh, with got them so many odd names, you know, they got, but I know what I know what you mean, but like,

Zing. Yeah. And if you're, if you're one championship, like, and even if you're not, even if you're like you said co-promoting, like even if you just loan out Malikin to go fight on the MVP card,

that only helps one because I think there's a real, like I think there's a real world where Malikin beats in Ghana. Like I think that absolutely could happen. Am I giving like, it's a fight? So does Lins have a chance? Sure. But it's like 99 to 1.

Like I'm like, yeah, there has like that 1% chance. He just pulls off something freaky and he gets the win. But like he's not a knockout. artist, he's not a great submission fighter, he's not a tremendous wrestler, like he's just kind of like a dude who, it does find a way to win fights,

but he also doesn't, like, he lost Arlowski in his UFC debut, and that was when Arlowski was already like 41 or whatever, when like Farlaowski was like at his prime at that point, and he lost to him, Ingana's going to send his head in the third row, and it's going to be a cool knockout, well, oh, Nengano nuked a dude, two days later

no one's going to care because he beat Felipe Lenz, but Malikin, I think, would have been interesting, or even rug rug, as terrible as I think that fight probably would have been. Like at least it's interesting because Roebuck is like this big giant massive heavyweight guy. You know, he looks like he looks imposing even if he's not, you know, great. But yeah, I don't know, man. Like, good for them. I mean, I guess. Like I said, good for Francis getting paid. But I think him fighting Felipe Lins tells you

exactly where the heavyweight division is that because like there's just nobody. Like who is he? Like I would have been a thousand times more interested in the Gable Steven fight just because it would have been intriguing. But yeah, like, yeah, I mean, And yeah, it's a fight, sure. But, you know, it just, I just, I'm just curious how much they're paying him. Like, we're going to find out, too, because they actually released the salaries in California. Now, I don't know who we'll get the real number because, you know, they always try to hide the real number. But I'll be curious because if they paid France is like $800,000 to fight Felipe Linz, dude, that is the greatest grift ever in combat sports.

Like, my God. Like, what a great, what a great run, man, to get to fight that guy and make, like, close to a million dollars. you know good for them I guess you know so Matt over the weekend real quick before we get out of here of course Max Holloway fought Charles Oliver for the dumbest title ever the BMF title is such a dumb I hate it

I'm done with it but Charles goes out there and just absolutely malls Max for five rounds takes him down grapples him to death and great performance incredible performance for Charles Olivera but can we please be done with this stupid BMF shit like it's so people were booing to fight and I get it it's a grappling heavy fight grappling isn't always the most popular art

form in mma but it is part of mhm but like they built the bmf title around being like this bloodthirsty you know knockdown dragout fight and to this point it worked out you know Mazadol and Diaz you knew those guys were not going to go for takedowns gachi poirier those guys are not going to go for takedowns gachi and holloway neither one are going to go for takedowns you put the guy with the most submissions in UFC history in there what the fuck did you expect to happen? Like, why would he stand in, why would he stand? That's the best game plane. Yeah, why would you stand and bang with Max Holloway when you're literally Charles Olivaire with like the greatest submission arsenal ever? Why would like, what did you expect?

Like, what did you think was going to happen? And, look, props to Charles for being able to do that too, right? A lot of guys haven't been able to do that. There's guys that have tried that, I guess, all the way. You got to give respect to Charles for that. In terms of the BMF belt, I mean, just who cares right keep it get rid of it i don't get the shit either way i mean whatever you know yeah i just don't know like it's it's the dumbest title

ever because like they're trying to tell us it's like the you know the stand and bang title or some shit and like it's gonna be this knock down drag out amazing war and i know charles is capable of that we've seen him go in there and do that but what is the like what is the goal is it to win or is it put on an exciting fight like if that's the case they should have made max holloway against michael chanler

because you know chanler didn't go for a taked He's going to go out there and just fucking, you know, throw winging punches until one of them gets knocked out. But you didn't do that. You did Charles Oliveira, who's like, you know, now maybe one went away from another title shot. Like, of course you're going to take the best strategy to win the fight. So, like, I would have rather than brought, like, you're going to insist on doing this stupid BMS shit.

Bring back Nate Diaz. Like, bring back Connor and do Connor Holloway or some shit. Then it's like, all right, whatever. But, like, you're literally putting two of the top five lightweights in the world in the case together where the winner is going to be one, maybe two wins away from a legit title shot. Why wouldn't you just take the best path to victory? Why would you fuck around and be like, well, let's go out there and put on an entertaining war? Like, what did you expect?

Well, the fact is that any title that's not a title one on merit is not a real title. So, you know, and what's the merit for a BMF titles? Someone said that you two should be fighting for a BMF title because you were to BMF. But so it's it was silly to begin with and it was never going. I don't know if people had expectations every time a BFF title's on the line. They're just going to bang it out. And, you know, I think it just like the White House car we're talking about earlier. Like it just comes down to expectations that, you know, what, what do you expect to happen?

Like dudes are just going to, you know, risk their lives for the BMF title. Like, what do you get if you, you know, are you getting pay-per-view points for a BMF title? Like, what do you get it, right? like yeah and also and also and i'm not like you know i think it's pretty well documented i i love max max holloway's one of my dudes like he's been around forever he's always exciting but like part of it falls on him too like you know like he couldn't get up he couldn't counter he couldn't reverse like we've seen guys like we saw ilia shut down an army when he tried to take ilia down in their fight and he shut it down and obviously knocked him out you know 90 seconds later whatever it was we've seen guys

counter Charles's grappling. And Max couldn't do anything. Like he defended well. He didn't get submitted good for him. But he just kept getting taken down and mauled on the ground. That's partially on Max. Like we've seen guys resist Charles. We've seen guys stop Charles's takedowns. We've seen guys

stifle his grappling in the past. And you know, we saw Porreux light him up early in their fight. We saw Gagee light him up early in their fight. Part of it's on Max too. Like he couldn't get up. Like if you're, if you go out there and you take a guy down that easily in the first round, why wouldn't you just do it

over and over and over again if he has no chance of breaking free of your grip? So, like, part of it's on Max, if Max had been able to get up and escape and Butterfly Guard and kept getting up and then lit up Charles on the feet and became a bit more of a knock-down, drag-off fight, we'd be saying a much different thing on Monday morning, but we're not

because Max couldn't stop anything. Max couldn't stop the takedown. He couldn't stop the grappling. That's not all on Charles. That's also on Max. Yeah, you've got to give extra credit, too, for Charles's takedowns, too. They weren't all conventional takedowns i thought uh it was very unique watching he had some like judo style takedown to i thought it was very cool man i think uh you know charles man like you got to give it credit

for credit to do man this guy's been around for a long time people discounted him for a while um he's had some tough fights he's had some ups and downs but god he's got so many records now and he is title or no title i don't give a shit about the bmf title but that is a bad motherfucker and man, I just, I love watching him fight. He's been one of my favorites for a long time. I love his style. And I thought it was cool because he really hasn't done that to people. He's taken down people and most of the time because he usually finishes them.

But he's never really just been able to constantly take someone down and hold them down and dominate positionally for a whole fight like that, especially for, you know, 25 minutes. So I thought it was cool and I thought it was great. again not the most exciting thing to watch but man you got to give credit where credit to do he's still evolving his game he's still getting better he's clearly still wrestling right still doing you know he's not resting on his laurels he's getting better all the time you know it's just unfortunate you know he's kind of in that that division man you know where it's you know it's not going to be an easy road to

get the title but um i hope he does i hope he gets up there gets a rematch with ilia which i don't know I mean, it might be going to 170 or something. But who knows? By time Charles gets up there. But I'd love to see Charles back with the title, man. I love watching him fight. I think Charles... He paid his dues.

I think Charles should do a rematch with Armin, do a five-round fight, because that first was super close. Armin's back in the doghouse again. I hear Dana basically, like, exactly what you said. He's like, I don't love it with the whole R-F thing, with the whole raft thing. Like, he's like, yeah, I don't love it. And he's like, you know, certain guys, you know, where there's smoke, there's fire.

And Armand's smoking a lot. I was like, Matt Brown called it. You knew it was going to be held against him. Like, you knew they were going to do that because they just don't seem to like Armand. They don't like Armin style. And when Dana's like, I'm not happy with Armin right now. We're like, here we go. You know, you're going to hold in.

So, but I think it should be Armin and, you know, Oliver, too, do a five rounder this time. Because the last one was great at U.S. 300. Armand eked out a split decision. Five rounds. Maybe Charles beats him this time. and then you don't have to worry. You eliminate the Armin problem.

And really, if Armin beats Charles again, once again, what are you really losing? Charles has already lost to Ilya. You know what I mean? So it's not like you're going to, you know, you're not losing like the number one guy and a young guy or anything like that. So I think Armin I'll end up to match. Orroman and Charles too is the match. Yeah, it makes sense to me.

Yeah. Just sucks for Armin, you know. You got to beat Charles twice to get to the title. Jesus. Yeah. I mean, it's not, but I mean, yeah, but like, I mean, you know, I guess the point is, like, are you ready to do that or some of the sidelines for a year and a half and hope you get a title. There's still no guarantees, you know, like. Yeah, but it's like, yeah, who else do they give arm?

If they don't want them to get a title shot, hey, give Charles another chance, right? If they're going to try to push them out of there. I mean, Charles is the guy that you got a really good shot of making that happen. So, and then worst case scenario, you get Charles as a title contender now. And you get rid of Armin, the problem that you don't want to give a title shot to. So, yeah, it makes sense in my head. Yeah, might as well do it. So, yeah, this weekend, Matt, we got Josh Emmett and Kevin Behavos.

I know that's the most anticipated fight of the year for you. It's not a great card, I'm being honest. It's not a great card. Next week's card's not bad, though. The London card. You get MVP back. You got Mousar and Lorone Murphy. So there's a pretty good fights next week.

So we do roll in that. And, of course, we got UFC 327. We talked a little bit about, you know, Yuri getting the title shot against Carlos Olberg and Joshua Van against Tatsuya-Tyrus and not a bad card. So I have a lot more to talk about with that. But I think we're going to be spending a lot of time just kind of analyzing because, like, the U.C. White House card is made, but it's six fights since not until June. We know at least one or two of those are probably going to change by June because that's just how the nature of the beast. But, yeah, it is what it is, man. Like I said, kind of a weird weekend.

The card wasn't great, but we got some big announcements. And Francis is back. And, yeah, so, you know, we'll see how it all plays out. out and then uh yeah last night did you watch joe potai's fight it was it was yeah he won but it was like very non you know like oh yeah he won he beat the crap yeah it was all right you know it's like you know i never know i always wondered what zufa thinks they're going to do so spectacularly to boxing to make it this exciting sport that i've said it for a long time in boxing you watch 10 fights to get one exciting one and

MMA you watch 10 fights to get one boring one. Yeah. It's just what boxing is. It's not that exciting of the sport overall. I mean, there's exciting fighters, there's exciting events, you know, when they build stars up, you know, like Floyd hardly had any exciting fights at all. Everybody

watched it because he was a star and you know, but that's what they do. You know, like they're good at doing that. They're good at building stars to make people anticipate fights, but it's not it's not like some overall exciting sport to watch top to bottom. Yeah, I was watching the last

night and I was like, you know, Opataya was dominating him, but I'm just like, yeah, it was like, I was snoozing off, like this is just not this is just not like a super excited. It was basically like a guy like, you clearly mention, particularly being an overmatched guy, but yeah, it is what it is. So, yeah, you know me, I'm not a huge

boxing guy. Like, I do like watching the big fights and, you know, I enjoyed like Crawford Canelo and, you know, there's some, you know, there's some fights out there I enjoy but yeah like I watched I watched Joshua Paul just going to want to see Paul get his head knocked off and that eventually happened. So yeah, it is what it is. But even those fights it wasn't the actual boxing part that got you excited.

Right. If Crawford and Canoe that exact same fight take away their name, put them on two other people, you're not even interested. Yeah. Right? It's it's the names that you get interested in and and again, I mean, I'm a boxing fan. And, you know, I've watched some of the low-level fights and no one cares about.

And, you know, you find exciting fights. Like, I like watching Shakura Stevenson. And he's the most boring fighter ever. He doesn't, you know, but I'm fascinated by his ability to not get hit. But that's the type of person that's into boxing or a gambler. Is that type of person into boxing. My big question is I just always have wondered, you know, I know Dana is a big boxing fan.

and but it's like what are you guys going to do exactly here like they tried a contender thing contender show right with the the reality show thing didn't really help anything uh they've tried you know uh different leagues right with pbc you know all these they've tried a million things like people who are into boxing or into boxing people that aren't aren't to get regular it's always been single stars busting out of the cracks. It's always been that way. Yeah. Well, I don't know how they're going to change it. They might. I mean, I think they kind of know what they're doing, right?

I'm not going to say, you know, I'm not going to say they don't, you know, they don't have a plan. But I don't see it. Yeah. Well, we'll see. Obviously, time will tell. You know, four fights in. We'll see where they go. And like I said, my interest is very minimal because I'm just not a big boxing guy.

I'd rather watch M.A. But that's just me. So yeah, we have lots to talk about. Obviously, lots more coming tomorrow is the first Corona rousy pressers. So I'm sure we'll talk maybe a little bit about that next week, see how they look and actually face off and how good or bad this fight's going to be. So we'll talk about that. Matt, as always, where can people check you out? They want to find what you got going on besides the podcast.

At our immortal Instagram and Twitter, the Immortal Matt Brown, Facebook, and the Immortalcast now. There you go. Check it out. want to say big thank you to get everyone that tunes in the show. Make sure to check us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We will see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider.

Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.