MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reveals the Worst Injuries He Suffered In His Career Plus the Latest on Stipe Miocic vs. Jon Jones and More

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown details the worst injuries he suffered during his career, plus we talk about the latest with Stipe Miocic vs. Jon Jones and if that is still the fight to make in the heavyweight division plus much more. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. as nine and a half fingered Matt Brown,

UFC legend Matt Brown. I don't mean, I don't think you make jokes about it, but you saw the Instagram, man. You had quite a, quite a finger accident yesterday. Maybe nine and three quarters. Come on now.

Dude, so you're doing work on the gym. Obviously, we've talked about this before. You're working on the gym. We're going to have a big reopening. You're going to have a big reopening later this year, but you were doing some work on the gym, and the old finger took the worst of it. Yeah, just a contractor's kind of been slacking

a little bit. I mean, you know how those guys are. Like, some of them just take too long or they don't show up on a day. And I was like, I fucking want this done today. So I went in and put some of the floor in myself and it's like a rubber floor. So I was cutting it with a razor blade. Had the T-square on there. And my finger was just, you know, quarter inch over top of the, the T-handle, whatever we call it, the T-square. And sliced clean, bro. That rubble floor is hard. So, like, you know, you're pushing hard. There ain't no stopping.

And, yeah, it went clean through it, man, with the really sharp razor blade. And, yeah, it's gone. Man, that's rough. And I picked it up. And I was like, I actually, it didn't actually hurt that bad because I sliced it. And then when, and I seen a piece of it fall off. And I was like, where'd that come from? And then I see blood go everywhere.

I was like, oh, shit. That can't be good. That's not good for anybody. That's like I've, I've sliced my finger before, like, because like when I was younger, you learn like when you open boxes and stuff or you open packages with a knife or whatever, you learn to swipe away from you. I learned that the hard way when I was younger and I sliced over the finger. And like, I want to say it was like my index finger is like down towards the base and it

sliced open and blood just went pouring out because I cut it pretty deep. But it was just a slice across the finger ultimately. Like you literally lost a chunk of the finger. I lost a chunk of the finger. I lost a chunk. bro yeah it was pretty bad yeah but the worst part i think it was the worst the last cut of the day you know like i was rushing i was tired and i was like dude we just gotta get this fucking shit done this stupid fucking construction guy didn't get here you know last cut of the day and

happened to be my finger i think that construction guy should have to be your first sparring session back like when the hands healthy again like that's the guy that's coming and spar you well i could beat him pretty easily without my hand too too. That's what you got elbows for. You have full strength when you hit that guy. Come on now. You cost you top of your finger. Geez, man. Yeah, give them the elbow, though.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, elbows hurt. That's probably hurt even worse. Way worse. Yeah. Yeah, give them that. Man, that's rough, man. Do the job yourself and that's how it ends.

Yeah. Here's what it is. Now we just got to deal with it. Going to miss some guitar play. Or I got to learn how to play side guitar real quick. Might be a good thing. I'll learn some side guitar. Yeah, you get some country music, Matt Brown.

That'll be the new style, the immortal, the immortal country. Or I'll just play more human than human over and over again. The only metal song I know that has side guitar. Yeah, that's the worst. Hand injuries are the worst, too, because, like, when you get a hand, and I'm not talking as, like, a fighter, I'm just thought as a person. Like, because you can't do anything. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, you can't, you know what I mean? I've had so many injuries now, though. I notice no matter where I get injured, it's always the worst one. Right? It's like, your back gets injured. You're like, dude, the back is the worst. You can't do anything. Your knee gets injured.

You're like, dude, I can't freaking walk anywhere. You know, like literally every injury is the worst one. So injuries are suck. You had, I know you had really bad back problems for a while. I'm not saying they ever stopped, but I remember specifically around when you were a match with Carlos Conn, the first time. You had a really bad back injury around then. Did you ever deal with back spasms around that time? Was that one of, like, did you ever deal with that? Yeah, I've had back spasms

before. But that was when it started was with the first Carlos Connep fight. That was when I originally herniated the discs. And then, you know, it just never got better until actually, recently with the stem cells has actually been the best thing I've done for it. And probably retiring, probably help too. Yeah. I had my first back spasm about two, three months ago, and it was the worst. Like, it sucked. Like, I've had back injuries where I pulled muscles and, you know, you just sleep weird or

you work out weird. You know, I mean, I've had those kind of things before, but I've never had a back spasm before. And I had one a couple of three months ago. I woke up, and it was the most miserable feeling. Like, I was sitting on my couch with a heating pad. Like, my dog would crawl up on me. It would hurt.

Like, just crawling on me to, like, lay down with me hurt. and I'd like push my dog off me because just that hurt I was like this fucking sucks yeah welcome to my world bro dude I was like I underestimated how bad it was I didn't realize how bad back spasms were

well I mean it depends on what you mean back spasm like you mean like it's actually spasming like tightening up and then loosening and then tightening and loosening oh yeah oh yeah yeah okay yeah yeah yeah who knows what you did but it's uh yeah I mean everything in your back sucks, right?

Because it just radiates to everything else in your body. And, you know, like we said, like, you really can't do anything. Like, you're completely debilitated. Like, you can't do a, you can't, at least my back injuries. I mean, I've been laid up on the couch. I had to have my mom come over and nurse me and hold a freaking pee bottle for me before. Like, you talk about, like, some embarrassing shit, you know. I should close her eyes and turn away, you know, but like, I literally couldn't get up.

up to go pee at times. That's, yeah, that's the worst. Yeah, I remember on that fight because I remember when that story came out, obviously, with you and Carlos, like, everyone was super excited. I remember talking to you after that, and, like, I can't remember. I, care of the language you use, but I remember you tell him your back was pretty fucked up. Like, it was pretty bad. Yeah.

Yeah, and this happened many times since, too. I mean, it's, I've had about 15, 20-quarter zone shots in my back. So now with the, with the, with the stiff. stem cells though, like, does, I know it's not anything's permanent, but like, is that more permanent? Like, because obviously you're not, you're not putting your body. No, stem cells are permanent. So it is permanent in terms like your back. Yeah, I mean, they are permanent. I mean, they fix my ankle 100%. Like my back, you know, I've done a lot of good things for it. And like I said, retiring, that was actually a huge

part of me retiring. I've hurt my back in at least five, six camps at minimum, usually really close to a fight, been laid up on the couch many times, I said, 15, 20 cortisone shots. I mean, you know, I've had doctors warn me about getting so many cortisone shots multiple times. It's been a terrible injury for most of my career, or, you know, at least since the Carlos Konda a fight that while they didn't end up happening. But yeah, it's been a chronic thing for a very long time. As a fighter, and I know this just because, you know, we talk, you've had a lot of injuries that's part of fighting, like having a career you've had. You know, obviously you had torn ACL. You had other injuries. It was back the worst of all the injuries you've ever had, just because

it was chronic because it just never really totally went away. Like I said, they're all the worst injury every time you get worse. But I would say in retrospect, looking back throughout my career, it was probably the worst one. The ankle might have been worse because I did everything I could to fix it and it never did get fixed until I got stem cells. And that's

why I've been so big on the stem cells. It was a good six, seven years where I couldn't run. I couldn't spar. I mean, I did, you know, but without pain, you know, I couldn't do anything. I couldn't hit pads like nothing without pain. I used

every taping technique. I had three surgeries on it, did PT rehab consistently for many years, tried every different therapy you can imagine. And I got stem cells and literally four or five months later, it hasn't been an ounce of pain since then. Wow. It was literally like a miracle. I mean, I'm a huge proponent of it.

I'll profess the glories of stem cells all day because it changed my life. Like, because it wasn't just a fighting. I mean, I certainly would say, you know, obviously, like it affected my training and and my ability to fight and things. But even more was, you know, just that day-to-day grind. Like, I couldn't throw a football with my kids. I couldn't, you know, I couldn't walk through the grocery store. Like I would literally like stand in the spot and tell my kids to go get milk or something

because I couldn't walk over there, you know, or like trying to go to a festival or something. Like, it was just such a low quality of life. What was the original ankle injury? Like, how did it happen? It was when I was fighting, I was supposed to fight Kelvin Gastelam. And I was in Denver.

I was going with Brandon Thatch, actually. I still remember Brandon Thatch? Oh, yeah, I do. Absolutely. So I was sparring with him, and he went to kick my rear leg, you know, so, like, you know, if you, like, Frank Yeager used to do it,

Like you would, you know, if I go to check your kick, it would swing the leg under it and kick the back leg. But I was up on my toes in my back leg. And it hit my calf and the foot basically, you know, rolled over. So it just rolled and it tore a couple ligaments. And apparently the cartilage was the thing that it tore that turned out to be a bigger issue because that's where I had the three surgeries where they're removing cartilage. And the third time, he's like, he's like, you know, we removed the. cartilage on the second time you know the first time they were very I'll just go through them quick so the first time you know they're very um try to take out as little as possible right they're

like we don't want to be pulling us stuff out the second time he's you know he's like okay I guess we're going to have to pull more out the third time he's like we pulled all of it out on the second one and what we're pulling out now is you know in you know basically shit that happened since the other surgery and I remember him telling me that he's seen he works on a lot of elderly people right their ankles and cartilage is pretty bad he sees a lot of their um images and he said that my ankle looked like it was an 80 year old person's ankle he said he seemed better looking 80 year old ankles actually and um like I said none of it helped all the PT all the rehab I got stem cells and literally four months later it was like it never happened

Like I was scared for a good six months to a year because I was like, dude, it's going to start hurting. Like I didn't want to kick pads. But then I would test it and it was perfectly fine. I just kept being like, damn, it's working, you know. And it took about a year until I, maybe six months actually, until I really pushed myself, like went for runs and, you know, jump rope and did things like that. That's wild, man. That's wild. And you think, like, when it's like, depending on the damage done,

where medical science is at now, you think it would be something to, like, you can repair because, like, they repair everything now. Like, back in the day, like, I remember when you and I were kids, yeah, I'm sure you remember this, when you and I were kids, like when football players used to get a torn ACL, they basically say, well, his career is pretty much over. Like, that's how serious it was. That's like 20 years ago.

And now torn ACL, not saying it's not serious, it is, but typically speaking, you know, it's just, it's almost like routine surgery. now you get a torn ACL and okay you're out nine months but you'll come back and most guys say like they even come back stronger like I always remember josephinevina's telling me he's like yeah I came back and I felt better like my knee felt better like I had all the things they went in and cleaned out all the damage they did the tour decal he's like I felt stronger so like with medical science you'd assume you know we're so far advanced they could fix something like that but

the human body is the human body and yeah it's weird because like I tore my ACL and you know there had some meniscus damage too. Now, mine didn't, doesn't feel stronger, but it's basically the same thing that I did to my ankle. But my ACL came back fine. I fought, I think, eight, nine months later. Yeah. Like I recovered quickly, like no problem.

But I do also, a little addendum to that, I do believe they injected my knee with stem cells when they did the surgery. There you go. So these stem cells come back around. So I'll tell you. Yeah, dude, the stem cells are amazing. man like you know and I'll give a quick shout out to the R3 in Beverly Hills who does my stem cell injections I might be going out there this week actually um it's literally magical it's it's a fucking amazing

so back injury I mean there's there's a million things that you know we talk about recovery and you know all this nutrition everything and all that stuff does like 1% or you know half a percent things like that the stem cells were literally like a hundred percent change for me personally that's wild that's wild so you said every injury was the worst injury back injury ankle injury we know torn ACLs or one I'm missing here another one that I'm missing as far as like the worst matt brown injuries um the the probably the other only other major surgery I've had about 10 or 11 surgeries but the only other major one that was really debilitating was my hand where I tore the ligament in my knuckle.

And you might even remember when I fought Robbie Lawler. It happened during that camp. And I punched him with my right hand. I started shaking it. You know, and I remember I watched the fight, right? And I heard Joe Rogan say, oh, he might have broke his hand. It wasn't a broken hand. It was I had a torn ligament in there.

And that one, it wasn't a bad surgery. And it was a fairly quick recovery. I think it was like two months or something. something, but you know, I had this huge contraption on my hand that had like a bridge going over my knuckle with a rubber band type thing that you could tighten and loosen the tension so that I could continue to move my hand little bit more every day, move my finger. So it went like from my wrist and had a bridge going up to my finger with a rubber band type thing so that I could continually move my finger a little more every day and do that.

to exercise this while I was cast it up. So it was really debilitating because then you know like putting on shirts with a big ass bridge on your hand isn't too easy, you know? And trying to grab things with, you know, two fingers or three fingers isn't easy.

So that was the only other one that was like really debilitating and aggravating. Did you have? I can't remember. Did you have back surgery? I can't remember if you actually had surgery. I never had back surgery. That's what I thought.

You just say, because backs are a weird one, right? Like, you don't, a lot of that's just like you have to almost, it's almost like you have to just grin and bear it in a lot of ways with back injuries. Yeah, I kind of wish that I did in retrospect. I just had, I talked to multiple doctors and they all kept saying you don't need back surgery and then it would hurt again or get hurt again. And they say, oh, you just say you don't need back surgery. And because, you know, I do talk to really good doctors and they're going to try to avoid surgery at all costs.

you know it's shitty doctors to try to get you into surgery right away so um but in retrospect i kind of wish that i did i wish that i got i forget what they call it but they shave the disc a little bit to keep it away from the nerve um yeah i kind of wish i did but i didn't so now being retired you said like that's obviously going to help because you're not putting your body through hell on a daily basis the same way you would in a training camp now you're still training things like that but in terms of like health would you say you're the hells would you say you're the healthiest you've been since like I don't know I'm not going to put a date on

it like because obviously throughout your entire career you had some kind of injuries whatever but in terms of like the back always gave you a problem the ankle gave your problems those were the two kind of like what am I calling like ongoing they continuously you didn't get ankle surgery one time and it was just better like your knee ACL you get the

ACL you had the acil surgery you recovered that never gave you a problem again the ankle was a chronic issue the back was a chronic issue since it's like since retirement and having the stem cells is this the healthiest you've ever felt? Physically, yeah, I would say so. But honestly, I've always been pretty healthy.

I mean, you know, those injuries were acute injuries that were, you know, just high impact things that happened. Even in the back, you know, it was just, you know, kind of foolish injuries, you know, looking back on it. But I've always been pretty healthy. You know, I just not pushing my body quite as hard. So I might be less healthy now because, you know, I'm not really working out as hard as I used to.

But I don't know. I'm mentally, I think I'm healthier than I've ever been. It's funny because, and I know we used to talk about this a little bit more on our old podcast. We do with Mark Coleman and our buddy Jeremy Loper, but when people talk about Matt Brown the fire, we always see about Matt Brown the Savage, Matt Brown, the fucking guy who goes in there and elbows Diego Sanchez and leaves him flattened on the canvas and all these other things. But a lot of people don't know.

And one of the reasons I like talking about right now is like people don't know how like dialed in on like health and fitness and like your body where like all the reading you do, the research you do. Like you're not a guy who just goes. You're not a guy. I'm not trying to speak for you, but you're not a guy who would just talk to a doctor and say, okay, I'll do whatever you say. Like you'd research it. You were fucking fanatical about your health. And so like even though you're not the guys out there pounding the pavement and putting posts up 20 times a day like, oh, I did this. I did that.

I did that. I know you were very fanatical. about your health and your body when you were in your career. Not say you stopped now, but I'm saying that during your career, you were fanatical about that. Barry, and I'm also, I'm still fanatical about it. I just eat, I just eat more calories now. Now, have you called Gary Breka to get his opinion on this whole stem cell thing?

Because I'm sure he's got an opinion. I thought about it. And then I decided I'd rather stab myself in the eye with the blast. Race the runners. Raise the sails. Raise the sales. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over.

Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title, and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started today at LinkedIn.com.

Terms and Conditions Apply. I'm Nilai Patel, editor-in-chief The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas and other problems. We've talked a lot about generative AI on the show lately, which is a very big idea that is causing quite a few problems. And one thing we keep hearing about over and over again is that generative AI is causing a lot of problems in schools. There are a lot of people out there, including many of the listeners of the show who email us, who are worried about the obvious problem, students using chat GPT to cheat on a side. assignments. But when our team went and poked at the story, they found that the issues in education with AI go a lot deeper to the very philosophy of education itself. If this technology becomes more ubiquitous, we'll have courses created by AI, graded by AI, with submissions from students

absolutely generated by AI. So it begs the question, what are we even doing here in higher ed? This episode is presented by Salesforce. every time that guy's name pops though I just shake my head and just like man I regularly get people still asking about him like he had such good fucking promotion if he just wasn't full of shit he'd be doing amazing things yeah we talked about that before and I'm just I don't know yeah again it's I'm not the one to talk about I'm not a fighter I'm not in his program but you know and you know people who know and you You understand the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, does Nick Diaz call, or what did Nick Diaz call, wolf tickets?

Gary Breckis sell it wolf tickets. Right, right. What, man, well, you know, there's, there's, like, pros and cons to, like, reading and being so fanatical about it, right? Because, uh, the thing is, until later in my, like, early in my career, there just, there wasn't a lot of nutritionist and, uh, Strength conditioning experts around, right? You know, 2005, 2006. So we all went to basically bodybuilding, right? Like that's where all the strength conditioning and nutrition science came from, right?

So I read way too much of that stuff. And I kind of followed a bodybuilder diet at first. And then, of course, with my strength and conditioning, I started going to West Side and realized all this is bullshit. And, you know, I don't know if the first. fucking thing about any of this so now you just listen to them then you learn that so i got this changing conditioning part down and then with the nutrition again you start with that kind of the bodybuilding way then you realize that's all fucking bullshit so then you start reading and you start reading

you know books and you know and then you got social media coming in so now you're getting all this input and it's really an information overload right so i made a lot of mistakes you know just kind of guinea pigging on myself experimenting with new things things and I made some gigantic mistakes like I 1,000% lost fights because of it and then it's sort of a Dunning Kruger thing right that was somewhere in the middle of my career and after I don't know later in my career probably as I was getting older and wiser you know you kind of start getting towards the other end of the Dunning Kruger you start realizing you don't really know shit but nutrition what I started realizing though is it's very very very very very, you know, you start

fucking simple. Like all of this input that you're getting is all fucking bullshit. It's very, very simple. That's why I suggest everyone follow Lane Norton, Bio Lane, B-I-O-L-A-Y-N-E. He calls out all these grifters, all these scammers called out Gary Brecker, a boy, a couple of times. And you realize when you know, when you talk to a guy at that high level, you're like, dude, I knew this shit 20 years ago. I just, you know, I let everything else infiltrate, you know, all these sprinkles and you start sprinkling things on.

And now you got an overload. So anyway, circling back, the nutrition. If we, we can talk about that all day long, strength and condition and nutrition, I can talk about it all day long and how fucking simple it is. We could do a 20-minute podcast on how to do nutrition properly. I bet I could do a five-minute, but I could. You're probably saying one sentence, right? Eat burn more calories than you eat. And try not to eat shit.

Yeah. You, uh, that's it. I remember you at keto for a little while. That was the thing for a little bit. Huge mistake. Huge mistake. I thought that, because I was on keto way before it got really famous.

Like I was right on, I thought, and I thought I was on the cutting edge, which is, in, in some ways I was. right because I was doing it before I got famous and then when I would go compete I won one fight on keto actually a hundred percent keto all the way through and

then I got my ass kicked on one and but the one that I won I wanted in the first of the second round I forget and then the one I lost got into the third round it was a grueling fight and I was like oh that's what it feels like when you get in the third round on keto you know when when I was in the gym I was able to deal with it but through the weight cut and you know a lot of different pieces I could put into that but yeah keto's garbage for athletes you sum it up that quickly I want to I know I know you talked about this before not to keep slam it on poor Gary Brecker but I know you said one day you'd love to have a sit-down conversation with Dana White I wait I would love to be like to fly in

the wall for that conversation because like listen dude I don't find you listen you you find something works for you I get it I understand it I understand how that works and a lot of It's mental, right? Like, you think it's working for you, so you got to stick by that program. Yeah, it's placebo, exactly. But, yeah, I just, I remember when you told me about that and I started doing research on that guy and I was like, oh my God, like this is why. It's like, it's like the people who sway.

I'm not, by the way, I'm not knocking people who go to a chiropractor, but like a lot of people don't even know chiropractors aren't doctors. They're not medical doctors. Like, they're not, like, they're not, they're not, they've not gone to medical school. Like they don't, you know, like they're not. A lot of people consider chiropractic pseudoscience. Like it's one step above, you know, like gyms for healing and shit. Like I'm not saying, I'm just saying like, but I think people have a misunderstanding

with chiropractors. Like, oh, he's a chiropractor. Of course he knows what he's doing. He didn't go to medical school. He has no doctrine in this. He has no, he didn't go. So like, it's the reality, but we're so ingrained in society now where we're just used to it.

Like, oh, it's a chiropractor. Of course he knows what's going on to your back. He's a chiropractor. He cracks your back and he knows how to move your, you're, spine and he must be an expert. He didn't go to medical school though and he's not a doctor. Well, the fact is, placebo effect is very powerful. It is.

I mean, there's, like, you cannot deny it. Like, it is extremely, extremely powerful. So, you know, whatever it is that you're doing, look, you know, just, and that's where there's, there's some good and bad to knowing too much, right? Like, like, just don't even learn the science and go do all the bullshit. And if you just believe it, then, look, that's power. as doing something real. So, you know, it's fine.

But, you know, I'm just not that guy. I'm not a simpleton like that. I got, I have to do my research. I have to understand that mechanisms, why it works, you know, how many other people did it work for? Did they do double blind, random controlled studies on these motherfuckers? Like, like, I want to know, like, I'll study the studies. You know what I mean?

I want to know what the fuck's going on. But for a lot of people, they don't need that. Like, they'll go to a carpenter and feel better. and the chiropractor didn't even fucking do anything just from that placebo and if that works hey good for you they did a study recently actually this was fascinating when I thought

where they gave you know I just use arbitrary numbers like 100 people they gave like 50 of them steroids actual steroids and they gave the other 50 they thought that they were giving them steroids but they didn't they gave them like some fake thing both groups got I don't think equally strong

as strong, but they both did, they all did the same training program and the non-steroid group got almost as strong as the steroid group just because they believed that they were on steroids. So, like, that effect is fucking powerful. Well, the brain, I think people forget

the brain is the most powerful muscle in the body because what your brain thinks, your body reacts. Like, there's, I mean, there's the people, I can't remember, I know it, what's it called, is it Monkhausen syndrome? The one where if you think you're sick, you're gonna, no, I'm not talking about like hypochondriac. I'm about like the real,

like when you are convinced you're ill, your body just reacts like, oh, I have this. I think it's called Monkhausen proxy or something like that, like where you think it, and it's so severe that your body starts breaking down because you're so convinced I have this or I have that. And it's a real, like your brain can make you better or worse. So if the placebo effect works, you're not hurting your body, you're not actually damaging yourself. And again, cool, do your thing but yeah you can go the other route where you think something's wrong and your body will absolutely react to that because what your brain is thinking so it's a it's a slippery slope yeah it's a fascinating thing but you know and and that's why you know all kinds of these all this nutrition and

you know man it's a tough thing because the science you can't deny like real good science you know I know there's a bunch of junk science out there I know there's a bunch of bullshit out there. You know, and it kind of sucks because these last few years has really caused a lot of division with this, right? Where there's, you know, especially with the COVID and everything, it's like the one guy's trust the science or other people are like, oh, it's all bullshit. And, you know, and it did, I think that that time has exposed a lot of kind of ill,

bad things going on in the scientific community. Like, there's no doubt, you know, whatever anyone believes. like there is some bullshit in there right and that's something that um you know has crossed over extremely heavily into the nutrition field nutrition has the worst fucking science ever because it has the most science ever right like i don't think anything is studied as much as nutrition has been studied so when you got thousands and thousands of studies all these guys go in and cherry pick things and you know misinterpret misread so then you get some fucking dork influencer on social media trying to sell you some shit and he can find some bullshit study and you know

cherry pick it and and misinterpret it a little bit and now he's selling you a fucking product and it's a fucking mess that we're in you know that's why i love guys like by elaine lane Lane Norton, where he goes in and calls him motherfuckers out. And he shows you like how simple it actually is. And that shit is not what sells, right? Sexy cells, not basic, simple, burn more calories than you eat. Right? Like get up off your ass.

Go work. Get good sleep. You know, eat the best that you can within your caloric, caloric intake. and fucking live your life. Yeah, I'm a, I'm a natural born skeptic. I've been a skeptic my entire life. I question everything. That's kind of my nature.

But there are certain truths in life that you have to be able to admit are correct. And while I do have questions about medical science from time to time and things like that, like at some point, like there are some truths we have to like nutrition. You said it's really, it's really simple. We had this conversation before. like eat less calories than you burn meat burn more calories than you eat and you'll lose weight it's not rocket science you know like that's just there it's like but like now it's like i know this is a weird analogy but it's like the people who are now questioning and saying they're like flat earthers and they're like i question everything the earth is flat i'm like hold on now like there's a level

to this like if you want to question you want to question you know some of the some of the science in outer space or whatever what we found in other galaxies okay fine But we all know it's universal truth the fucking earth is round. Let's not go that far. Like, let's not go all the way back. Let's not dumb ourselves down to where when I say two plus two, you're like, well, hold on now. Is it four?

Is it four? Like Terrence Howard, one plus one equals three. I'm just like, you're not, you're not intelligent by questioning that kind of stuff. You can question things. I'm all for questioning things. But yeah, don't tell me two plus two is five. Like, I know better. We all know better.

I can show you four fingers, and I can show you five fingers. You can count them and you tell me what two plus two is. And like the whole flat earthers like, well, I'm questioning everything. Like, let's not question everything. Let's question some things, not everything. Well, I don't mind questioning it. But the answer is very fucking obvious. You know what I mean?

That's the problem. It's like, okay, if you're 15 years old, you know, you never been on an airplane or, you know, you don't know basic shit. And you're like, dude, I should question. I'm like, good for you. question. Now, if you come back and you said, bro, I looked outside and fucking flat. I'm like, okay, let's

do some critical thing here, buddy. Yeah, yeah, it just, like, I feel bad for, I feel bad for our education system because, I mean, listen, we grew up basically the same time and we didn't, I grew up public school, you grew up in public school. And I'm not saying I had the best education in the world or whatever, but

even at a public school in Ohio, we didn't, no one was like, now hold on, there might be a question about the earth people. No one ever did that. So you're just, so basically at some point later in life, you're deciding to I'm going to question things. And to me, just like I would argue, though, that our public education is half of the product of this because the one thing that they have never taught well is critical thinking.

And that to me is what's missing, right? When someone goes on social media and they're spouting flat earth, like, you know, you need to critically think about it and not just be like, oh, well, I question everything too. Yeah. So I should question this, right? It's like, no, like critically think about it. And I'll take a lot of shit here for saying this, but the most non-critically thinked about thing in the fucking world is this whole, there's a God up there that fucking created us. and fucking Noah floated on a goddamn boat and shit. And like, it's like, dude, use some critical thinking.

Yeah, I usually go that route. I think you know my feelings on religions. I just didn't go there. You don't want to be controversial. Like, I'll go there. I openly say, I mean, I openly say I'm an atheist. I'm not afraid of saying that. but yeah it's just you're gonna go pick on them like i will though yeah i just i broke up with i broke

up with a girl uh about two or three months ago because okay she was christian and i was okay whatever that's fine you know leave whatever you want to believe but you know it kept coming up all the time and finally you know i didn't call it for a couple of days i was like do i just can't i don't want to fucking hear it again so i'd just stop calling her and uh finally she called me after like three days. It was so funny because it was exactly three days, right? And she goes, oh, hey, where you been? And I was like, well, you know, I went fishing the other day. And I got swallowed by this goddamn fish. She's like, why? She's like, that didn't happen. And I was like, well, it happened to your dude in the book. Why couldn't it happen to me? Like that, but that's the

kind of shit you're dealing with. Like, that's exactly true, right? Like, It fucking happened to your guy. Why can't it happen to me? Yeah. Boy rose from the dead. Why can't I? Which I kind of did. So maybe I'm fucking Jesus over here.

I had that. I had that conversation. We're about to lose our crowd here tonight. Yeah, half our audiences leaving right now. We should probably get on. No, but I, listen,

I think it's okay to, like I said, I'm a natural born skeptic. That's, when I say that, that's my version of saying how I was raised religious and not becoming religious later in life

because I was a natural born skeptic. But yeah, it's okay to question things. There's other. wrong questioning things, but don't be afraid of facts and knowledge. Don't be afraid of, just because you look at the sky and it's blue, and say, well, I think it's green. No, you can think it's

green. It's not green. It's blue. And they can explain why it's blue. No, that's a great point because that's actually where I go with the religious thing. I'll make that a little bit clear. So in case anybody that was religious, I just lost them. They might come back on this. I say, look, if you

believe in God, I totally get that. No. that you believe it. Like don't come to me saying that's a fucking fact. Right. If you come and you say, I believe in God. Okay. Yeah. I believe all kinds of bullshit. I believe, you know, fucking spaghetti monsters flying around in the, and flying saucers. But it doesn't make it true. But, you know, if you want to believe that, fine. Don't come to me like that's a fucking fact. Yeah. Yeah, that's absolutely. Yeah, that's the truth right there. There's the truth.

Don't tell me. You tell me to believe it. That's cool. Do your thing. But don't tell me it's absolutely fat because you can't. You can't do it. Yeah. If you're going to question everything, let's question everything.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I believe I'm just making this up. I believe Eddie Van Halen is the greatest guitar player of all time. Okay. That's not a fact, though. You can't prove it. There's no proof like he is the best ever.

I believe it. I don't know. I'm not really saying I think he's the best of star. No, I don't. But I just like throwing out. I'm throwing it. I'm throwing somebody else guitar player of all time then if we're going to go there. Who is the greatest guitar player at all time?

There ain't no fucking greatest of all time. No, there's not. It depends on style and technique and what you're into. People would say like, who's the one was it? Is he the Yingwe Malmstein? Like everyone thinks he's like, I'm just like. Yeah, Inge. Like he's,

Yeah, for his stitters him the greatest. They only consider him the fastest. But I'm saying like his style, exactly fast. You know what I mean? But someone else says, I don't know. Eric Clapton, people say he's the greatest one. Yeah.

Eric Clapton doesn't play my fucking, like he doesn't play fucking metal. Like what I consider a great metal guitar player is not Eric Clapton's. Well, I got one for you then. The greatest of all the time ever in the history of guitar play and music, Jimmy motherfucking Hendricks. And I don't think there's even, I don't even think there's a close second.

Yeah, that's pretty far up there. And that's a guy, that's a guy I've only ever seen. Like I wish, obviously, I think we all wish Jimmy Hendricks had lived a lot longer, but that's a guy you can only see on video, you know, like imagine if you actually were lucky enough to see him live when he actually played in person. Dude, that was a, that was a different,

if there's a god or demons, angels, whatever, like they were speaking to that motherfucker when he was playing. Like, I believe that thoroughly. Yeah, that's, he had some fucking energy from the fucking universe when he played. I remember talking to a guy when I used to run a record store in college, and he had talked to me about going to see Led Zeppelin. And I think I've told you this before.

I'm not a big Zeppelin guy. Like I respect what they did. I'm just not like a huge fan. But he was like seeing Jimmy Page in person was fucking mind altering. He's just like seeing that in person was just like mind altering. And I get that because I've seen some bands live and I'm just, it's a different experience. Like watching them play live versus just watching them on a video or listening to their music. Being there live and seeing it is all.

Like, I love, like, I've seen Metallica 17 times now, 16, 17 times now. And everyone's like, dude, you've seen them so many times. I was like, it's always fun. It's always an experience. It's always interesting. Yeah, like, I never get bored seeing a Metallica show. I've seen him like 17 times. They're like, isn't that enough?

I'm like, no. Like, certain bands, like, I would see them 100 times if I had the money and the means to do that. You know, I don't, but I would. I always say that Jimmy was the greatest guitarist. Jimmy Page. is definitely up there, but Led Zeppelin's the greatest band as a whole altogether. Because I don't think Jimmy Page would have been what he was without Led Zeppelin. Oh, no, not at all.

I agree. I totally agree. And even though I'm not a huge Zeppelin fan, I think he's incredible. I think they're an incredible band. What they did, they're amazing. It's funny because I was always a huge, I'm a huge fan of Terry Reid. You know what Terry Reid is, the singer? You didn't know this story?

this was told to me and it's actually true, I looked it up because someone told me this story. I didn't believe it until I looked it up to verify it was true. There's me to do a little skepticism here. Terry Reed was a singer back in the 60s or 70s, whatever it was, and he was going to be, during when Led Zeppelin was coming together, he was going to sing for Led Zeppelin. And when they played together, Terry Reid was just like,

I don't know that my singing fits with what you guys are doing, but I got a buddy named Robert Plant. See if that works better for you. in and the rest of his history. Now, Terry Reid went on to have his own career. He's more of like a folk. Like, you know, he has some awesome songs. I mean, I love his music, but it's more like folk, like singer-songwriter shit.

But yeah, that's how they got together. He's like, I got this buddy named Robert Plant. You should try him out. And they brought him in and the rest of his history. And Terry Reid could have been the singer of Led Zeppelin, but he's like, yeah, I just, I don't think I fit with what you guys are doing. So talk to my buddy Robert Plant. And there you go.

Yeah. I'd like to hear some of his music, you know. Yeah, he's got, I guarantee, I guarantee you there's a couple of Terry Reed songs. You put him on Spotify, you'd be like, oh, I know that guy. Like, he's very, very 70s, like, you know, more like singer-songwriter rock, you know, like, Jim Crocey, that kind of sound. So not Led Zeppelin at all. You would be, you're not going to, like, think it's Led Zeppelin. It's not at all.

But if you hear it, I guarantee there's a couple of songs you'll hear him. Like, oh, I know that guy. Like, I've heard that before. But he missed out on a lot of cash, didn't he? He did, but that's probably the part. he misses out the most on it's like all the guys it's like the story um the actor matt damon he is somebody always asked about the roles he passed on as an actor and he's like there's only one and he always tells this story he said when he was coming up uh james cameron wanted him to be

in the movie avatar remember the movie avatar and uh and he was like they were going to give him a percentage of the of the royalties and he's just like yeah man but i got this other project i'm working on and like i don't want to do it he's like all right cool ends up being the biggest grossing film in the history of film he would have made like eight billion dollars off or whatever and he's like yeah that's the one I passed on that I still have to think about because like I mean he's I'm sure he's wealthy beyond means anyways but still you know he passed on at eight billion dollars or whatever now I don't know if Coleman's going to get mad for me telling this story but you know he passed on pretty prominent role in Hollywood did he do I not remember I've never heard this story oh man I have to

let him tell you the story sometime but he was supposed to be in fucking gladiator really yeah oh my gosh he wasn't he wasn't supposed to be russell crow but he was up there pretty close you'd be you'd be you'd probably be surprised i'll let him tell you the whole story we'll get him on here again sometime but he was supposed to be in fucking gladiator bro holy shit i didn't know that i've known colman all these years i never heard all the so all the colman stories i've heard i've never heard that story. Well, there's a lot you haven't heard. I don't want to give it all away because, you know, Coleman wants to tell his story. So, yeah, that's wild. That's wild, man. Yeah, I guess you just never know, man. You pass on something not knowing what it's going to be. And then it becomes

something. You're like, oh, shit, well, there's a, trust me, I've gone the other direction where people are trying to hire me to do things. Like, do we're starting this great company. We're going to be doing an MMA and we want you to come on and we're going to hire you, we're going to pay you a lot of money and do this and do that. I'm like, awesome. But I kind of like the job security to have at this other place or this place. And then like within a year they're out of business. I'm like, yep, I think I made the right call.

So a little stability. That's like someone saying, dude, we're going to pay you, we're going to pay you, you know, $800,000, comply for Fifer Affliction. Awesome. And then they're gone in one event. And then they're gone in one event. You're like, well, shit. Well, speaking of affliction and off-shoot events, I think we should be talking about some M.M.A. or fighting tonight, right?

Yeah, we should real quick, we get out of here. Yeah, so we had over the weekend, did you even watch the boxing match with Muslims? I did. I did. I didn't watch it. All right, let me tell you this at a time. The fight card up to that point was rough. Like, Daniel Jacobs needs to not fight again. Like he's not, it was not good. And Sean Garcia, Ryan Garcia's brother is not good. But they got to the main event. It was super late.

Like it was like 1.30 in the morning when it finally got started. And I was like, oh my God, how's this going to go? Dude, it was fun. It was legitimately a fun fight. Again, we're dealing with two novice boxers who are MMA fighters, you know, boxing with each other. But that's what it should be. You shouldn't get, you know, you shouldn't get Horrie Mazel against fucking Canelo. Like, that's not the matchup you should be seeing.

for what it was for these two guys that they're staging their career in their late 30s it was a fun fight I was legitimately impressed nice yeah I wouldn't actually consider them novice boxers because I think they're actually pretty good boxers well I'm saying like

yeah I'm not I'm saying compared to like the top boxers of the world like when you watch you watch you watch the influencers you watch you know even MMA fighters then you go watch you know Terence Crawford I'm not saying they have to be Terrence Crawford but I'm just saying like there's a vast difference between top boxers and what they're doing.

And I did not watch that fight, but I would argue if either one of them had pursued boxing from an early age, they would probably do pretty well. There would be top 10 guys, either one of them. I think, but for Diaz, it was a close fight. I actually scored a draw. It was super close. Like, I thought Maswood was up. Ten rounds, ten rounds.

Yeah, I thought Mazved all was up. And then Diaz came back in the last two and tied it for me. And I had a draw. But Diaz ends up winning. And honestly, like, I don't agree with a couple of judges that had a. One judge had like eight rounds to two. That to me was horseshit. But like six to four one way or the other, I really couldn't, like, you can't complain.

It was a good fight. Like, Mazvedal definitely won some rounds. Diaz won some rounds. I didn't have a problem with either guy winning. And I think when you listen to Masridaul's comments, he's not even bitching about the decision, just how the decision went. Like two guys scoring it seven rounds to three and eight rounds to two. It was not that lopside.

Like six four was the last. the max like one guy and i and because a couple of the rounds were just super close it was basically down diaz's volume versus masvidal's power punches you know diaz would be doing his classic diaz thing and then maswoodal would boom boom hit with a couple you know a couple left right combination kind of thing and he you know he hit the bigger punch but he only do it like two or three times in a round whereas diaz fucking constantly is fucking stabbing him with that jab for fucking three minutes straight so yeah it was a close fight but dude it was fun and i i i had no problem Diaz winning, I wouldn't have a problem at Maswood

all won. It was a good fight. Do you want to see it again? I'd watch it again. I would. It was actually fun. It was actually fun. Now, I don't know about all that, but I mean, here's why I say that. I don't feel, the $50 they charge, I don't feel cheated

by that. The undercar was just really rough, man. Like, it was a rough go on there. If they had better fights, like a UFC card, like you don't see does UOC's figured it out they're gonna obviously we all go there for the main event

we all do tune you turn in for Connor you tune in for Israel you tune in for John Jones we all know that but they also do stack up the undercard enough to where you feel like you're at least getting your money's worth right like you're at least getting more out of the more bang for your buck

you know and boxing while you know listen I appreciate like Chris Avila had a great play had a great performance against Anthony Pettus but ultimately it was just a lot of really not fun boxing to watch. It was just, you know, like, it just wasn't. Arnado Vargas beating Sean Garcia.

The most interesting part about that was watching Ryan Garcia walk out with his brother and be like, well, I thought you were in rehab, man. What's going on? And he's out there with his brother in his corner and he's fighting. That was probably the most interesting thing that happened on the undercard.

But yeah, like, the main event made it. Thank God, because the undercar was bad. It was pretty rough. No, okay, I got you. Well, maybe I'll watch the next one. Or maybe I'll watch the replay on YouTube sometime, but whatever. I don't want to turn this all. We always, God, I hate when I do this, but I'm going to do it anyways.

We always turn this into like Conner conversation, but Nate Diaz legitimately looked good. He did. He looked good. And while I thought he looked, I didn't think he looked good against Jake Paul, he flat out came out last week and said, yeah, I just didn't take it seriously. Like, I was just half-hastening it and not really into the fight and just didn't perform. And he didn't. I was like, what is this? Like, what's Nate doing?

and he won good for him and afterwards he's like I want to fight Jake Paul I want to fight Leon Edwards in the UFC I don't think that's going to happen but immediately my first thought was dude go fight Connor you could have a big fight with Connor now

Connor's coming back Nate's 39 he's not a young guy anymore he's 39 Michael Chandler's going to have an angriism pop in his head when he hears this but dude why not just do Diaz McGregor 3 now why not if he's coming

If Connor's really coming back, I know, I don't want to have that conversation again. For argument's sake, let's say he's coming back. Why not do the Diaz trilogy now, dude? Just do it. Like, just because you're probably not going to get to do it otherwise. Because Connor, if he loses again, I'm not saying it always goes away, but it starts to go away. Diaz is coming off an impressive win over a guy that wanted to fight Connor forever. Why not just do that right now?

I got a better feeling he would rather fight Nate Diaz in a trilogy than he would. Michael Chandler. Especially of our boxing, because I kind of thought that's where you're getting at first. Maybe then. In the UFC, yeah, but... I could totally see Connor

doing a boxing match with Nate Diaz. Dana might get behind it. Like, that's a moneymaker. That's better going to... I'm probably going to have less risk of injury going into that one than you would. The MMA fight, so I just... Andy doesn't have to deal with his leg.

You know, kicking and stuff. Yeah. I'd be into it. That's all we got to say is, yeah. Yeah, I'd be into it. Real quick before we get out here, I wanted to bring this up because we talked about age, we talked about injuries, we talked about all that.

I know this, I'm asking you to kind of walk on careful ground here, Matt, because it's a guy that you and I both know, and I would say consider a friend and a colleague, guy that we've known for a lot of years, Steve Miochich. November looks like going to be him and John Jones, but Steve Bay came out and did an interview with CBS Sports and said, you know, I'm not holding up the division. Like, I only want to come back and fight John Jones, but ultimately it's up to the UFC what they do. And I think part of the reason why Steve has gotten so much blowback is because he's been out for three years and his last fight was Dingano and that was a loss.

Are we, like, if they don't, does the UFC just need to announce this already and just move on? because I think the public opinion from a year ago when Steepa and Jones were fighting and everyone's like, cool, this is a great legend fight, you know, Stepe's the greatest while time, John's greatest well time, heavyweight debut, really cool story. Now a year later, it feels like a whole lot of people are jumping off the whole Let's See John Jones and Stepe fight thing. What's the blowback? I mean, I think part of it's Tom Aspinall. I think that's a big part of it because people are believers in him. But I just think the time, man, the more time you stay away, Stebe is going to be, I think, 43 when he fights John Jones.

Like, it's a concern. I'm not saying that I'm not saying I don't want to see it happen. I love Steepa. I'm all for it. But I think the public opinion has swayed from what it was a year ago. And you know that that's how quickly the sports goes. Like a year ago, everyone's on board. But now-

That's exactly it. Things just move too fast and people want to see the next big thing straight away. Look, there are two legends that both deserve to fight each other. They both deserve that big fight. We're all going to watch it if it happens. All the haters, all the blowback people, they're all going to fucking watch it. We're all going to want to watch it. And that's who they should each be fighting.

That is the right fight to make. It just happened to be taken way longer than it should be taking. You know, it should have happened a year ago. But here we are. So let the two fight. Let them have a legend fight. They've both done as much as anybody could imagine. them doing in the sport.

What else do you want? You know, like let the guys go out on a legendary fight. Let them fucking fight. Let them make some money. Hell, buy the pay-per-view to support them so they do make more money. And let's move on. I think it's an awesome thing. I think it's a great thing.

Fucking two great fighters. Let them fucking fight. Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. And I am a big believer in one thing John said that I do agree with. while I do think Tom Aspinall is awesome, I do, I think he's great. But he's not proven. He's not. I mean, he has the great win over Sergey Papovich.

That's awesome. But he doesn't have a resume like Steepa does. And while Steve has been out for a while, I admit. And listen, ideally, Matt, let's be honest. If we were going to make the dream heavyweight fight, it would probably be John Jones and Francis and Ghanu. Not John Jones, Tom Aspinall. Like, that would be my dream fight. If it's not going to be Francis, though, I think Steepa is the other guy.

And listen, for once, you know, Steve is, I mean, he's earned some goodwill. Yeah, of course, we'd rather not see him fight at 43 and all for three and a half years or whatever it's going to be in. But that's the sport. And listen, John Jones just came back from three years, looked great and tapped out Cyril Gaon in three minutes. So who knows what Steve is going to come back looking like. Yeah. And look, I'm 43. I know what it feels like to be 43.

I feel as good as I ever have. I'm just a lot bigger. but steepe's a heavyweight so i think he's going to be fine you know if it and we all know look look the look how old was randy couture and he came back and won the title 40 something 45 46 i like that yeah like heavyweight is different like it's not a speed game it's not a much of a reaction game now john john isn't a slow guy so you know stepe's going to need his reactions as you know as good as they can be but it's not a it's not the same game if you're if you're a 135 hundred 45 55 pounder being 43 years old is going to be a problem like that's going to be you have to be

quick but when you're heavyweight i don't think it's as big of a difference and if stepe staying healthy training hard i think he's going to put up a good fight and i think he'll do great and something curtis blade said to me when i talked to him after he booked the fight with tom Masplin. We were talking about heavyway and he said like he was he was battling against the idea that he suddenly people have to say he has a glass chin because he's got knocked out a couple times and I was like, look who's knocked out Curtis Blades. Derek Lewis, who fucking hits like a truck, Francis Nganoe who hits like a fucking truck, and Sergey Pavlovich, who hits like a fucking truck. Right. That's, that's heavyweight. And he's like, that's the thing

about heavyweight. It only takes one. Like you couldn't get away with what they, you, heavyweight is the most honest division in the sport because you cannot get away with a mistake in heavyweight because one one glancing shot and it's over so that's where steebate like you can say well stevee bay's but now for three and a half years guess what he still hits fucking hard he doesn't need to be technically the best fighter against john jones he doesn't need to be in the best shape of his life he just needs one left or right to just glance up john's temple and john's going to go face down on the canvas that's heavyweight possibly john's got a good chance too. But in heavyway we don't know. He didn't take a single shot against Cyril gone. I mean, but my point is, but my point is, is you, you can't, it's a different, it's a totally

different animal. Different, yeah, it's different. 100%. And again, like, there's just not the same speed and reaction type thing. Like, you know, you don't move the same, right? There's not those quick jerky movements. Yeah, so I think they'll be fine. I'd love to still see

the fight. I don't know where the hates coming from. You know, I get that, you know, I get if people are complaining that John's not fighting, you know, you know,

building his resume at heavy weight. I get, you know, Stipe's been out for three years. But that's not John's goal. And he stated it very clearly. He's like, he's like,

I'm not trying, he's like, I've already done it all. You know, so when he said it, you got to believe what he said, right? Like his, I don't remember his exact words, you might remember better than me.

But, you know, this is simply not his goal to make a run through the heavyweight division. He did it at 205, did it for a long time, did it very well. Now he's doing legacy fights. He's on the George St. Pierre plan. George St. Pierre was the greatest welterweight of all time. He won to add a second title. Who was the champion at that time? Is Michael Bisping?

Everyone said, always handpicking. No. Michael Bisping was a champion. It was a massive fight, so he fought Michael Bisping. He beat him, became champion. and if he had been healthy, I think he probably would have done another fight, but he wasn't, so he moved on. John's done everything he needs to do. John solidified himself as arguably the greatest of all time.

John doesn't need to fight. No, I'm not saying this to be offensive, but I'm saying like, John doesn't need to fight fucking Marchine Tibera to prove himself it anyway. Like, he doesn't need to fight Alexander Volkov to prove himself in every way. He's John fucking Jones. He can kind of pick and choose what he wants to do. To be fair, I would love to see him do all that. I'd love to see him do a run at heavyweight, but he doesn't have to.

You know, he's not, he's not going to go down in history as the greatest heavyweight champion. And he, I think he's already stated basically like he's fine with that. He's going to go down history as one of the greatest,

if not the greatest, MMA fighter of all time. He doesn't have to do it a heavyweight now. If he was 29, it would be a different conversation. He's not 20. Totally. All right. That's our show.

We did get a little M. talking there before the end. We talk so much about injuries and fucking Jesus and everything else we had going on today. Matt, where can people check? Oh, by the way, I want to tell you, you should send a message over to our friend Laura Sanko. She was looking for a sauna today on Instagram. We should send her a message. She was asking who puts in good sauna.

So give a shout out to Redwood. They should go out and put a sauna in for Laura Sanko. Let's go. All right. I will. So there's one of your plugs for you. I just plug somebody for you, Matt. I'm down.

Let's go. All right As always We appreciate it When tuning in the show As always I appreciate you Check it out the show

On Apple Podcasts Spotify And of course Over the best website In the world MMA fighting.com He is at I'm just going to do your plug

For you Matt I am the immortal Everywhere Instagram Twitter And check out the immortal Coffee What else gonna plug there Matt Did I get everybody in there

And creatine Don't forget the creatine Gumies Yep At try underscore create See I know it now I know it

Use code Immortal immortal. There you go. There you go. All right, folks, we're going to get out of here. As always, thank you to everyone

tuning in to the show from Matt Brown. I'm Damon Martin. We'll see you next week on a new edition of Defider v. The Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready

to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From deaf and power wheelchair of soccer, To Beach and Futsall, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem.

They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf. Support for this show comes from Chase. If you're a fan of women's sports, you're always looking for ways to get closer to the action. and your Chase card can get you exactly that. With a Chase card, you can experience more. That means access to pre-sales, preferred seating, and more savings. For more information about how to step into a world of more with Chase experiences,

visit chase.com slash experiences. Benefits available only to eligible Chase card holders, deposit and credit card products provided by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. Member FDIC. Terms, conditions, restrictions, and limitations apply.