MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Scoffs At UFC Fighters Actually Beating Top Boxers; Kyle Snyder Addresses Interest in MMA

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

UFC welterweight Matt Brown returns to episode 27 of The Fighter vs. The Writer to discuss his upcoming return in Columbus against Bryan Barberena while also debating the prospects fighters from the UFC have if they actually crossover to face boxing’s best. Could Kamaru Usman give ‘Canelo’ Alvarez problems? Does Francis Ngannou have a shot against Tyson Fury? Brown will give his thoughts as both a fighter and an avid boxing fan. Plus, two-time Olympic medalist Kyle Snyder joins the show this week to preview his upcoming supermatch against J’den Cox as they meet in a best two out of three battle between two of America’s top wrestlers. Snyder will also address his past interest in potentially testing himself in mixed martial arts as well as answer if he’d have any interest in wrestling some of the best fighters from the UFC. All this and much more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca. slash Black Friday. IKEA, bring home to life. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the Fighter versus the Rider. I'm your host, as always, Damon Martin. And this week, I am happy to be joined by my regular co-host. I'm going to call him a regular co-host,

because I think he's the longest standing member of this podcast besides myself. I think this is his third or fourth appearance on the show. And maybe more one day. Of course, we used to host a podcast together over on Fox Sports. And he hosted his own podcast at one point in time as well. He is returning to action on March 26 here in Columbus, Ohio, against Brian Barbarina. Always glad to talk to Matt Brown.

Matt, what's going on? I'm just getting ready, man. A couple weeks out. laying down the final layers of camp and, you know, tapering down, getting ready, getting the weight good, and getting mentally ready to go to war, you know. We got Brian Barbarina here who's a real just fucking grinding blue collar, backcountry guy. You know, he's just coming out of the woods and just going to fuck a war, man. So, you know, I got to be ready for this guy, man. And so just getting mentally ready.

And we got less than two weeks now. So we're ready to fire, try to get all the cylinders fired up so we can go in there and hammer it. Yeah, I was at your, of course, I'll be at the fight next week, but I was at your fight with Eric Silva down in Cincinnati. And, you know, I consider Cincinnati and Columbus both kind of like hometown fights for you because you lived in Columbus for years, but you're kind of, you're originally from right outside of Cincinnati, so kind of two hometown shows.

but that was a little different because that was the main event of course you know hometown show all those kind of things but this is another one you're going to be a marquee fight on the car do you like i mean is it fun fighting at home so i hear different i remember talking to rich franklin one time when he was fighting Anderson sylvan cincinnati and he was excited but he was like god it's a nightmare people hitting you up for tickets and you know you're deal you know you deal with the local stuff and all that kind of stuff so like how how was it for you like when you're now like has it been a pain in the butt or or do you get excited to fight at home it's pretty much the same to me to be honest you know i go uh mentally i stay the same i'll stay down at the hotel i won't you know i won't stay at my house during the week even though i'm 10 minutes away from the arena i'll stay at the hotel just like it's a regular fight i pretty much block out all the people that you know asking for tickets and this and that um and it ends up being uh pretty pretty much like any other fight to me. I try to keep it that way. Because, I mean, once you get in there, it's the same cage,

no matter what city you're in or what arena you're in. And you got a guy across from you that's trying to take your head off. So that's all that I need to worry about. And, you know, if I don't reply to people's texts or tell them to fuck off or tickets or whatever, you know, I'll talk to them after the fight. and explained to him, look, I was busy, bro, mentally. So, you know, I know, I've had the experience before.

I also fought in Columbus, I think in 2011, I want to say, maybe 2010 with Pete Sell. Oh, yeah, the Pete Sell fight, the Eve Levine wanting to get Pete Sell killed fight. Yes, I do remember that vividly. Yes, yes. And, yeah, so, you know, this isn't nothing new to me, man. and I know that my friends are going to be my friends, no matter what I give them. So after the fight, you know,

if someone wants to hold it against me because I didn't reply to your text, they can fuck off. Dude, I'm excited because this is the, this is going to end up being the second fight night card with fans. Of course, they're doing it this week with UFC London,

but first one domestically. And again, the first card to say, it was kind of funny. It was back to back. When the pandemic started in 20, they had the card in London, which was going to be Tyron Woodley and Leon Edwards, and then the next week was going to be Francis Ngano and Jarsigno Rosenio Rosenstrike here in Columbus.

And those are the first two cars that got canceled with the pandemic. So it's kind of awesome. Literally two years later, in March, we're going back to back, London and then Columbus. And I saw tell them, again, you probably don't pay attention to this, but like ticket sales. I mean, nationwide arena for people who have never been to nationwide arena. It's a big arena. I mean, it's where the, you know, the Columbus Blue Jackets play. 20,000 seat arena, dude, their places, I mean, tickets are scarce.

Like, it's almost sold out. And that's for a fight night car, which is awesome. Like, it's going to be a pretty awesome crowd. That's awesome, man. I can't wait, bro. It's been over two years now since I've had fans. So I actually kind of got used to it, you know, my last fight at the apex. Like, I felt comfortable, felt great.

First couple times, it was really, really weird, you know. When I fought in Abu Dhabi, when I fought in Jacksonville, especially Jacksonville, walking out to just a complete empty arena. It just felt creepy, man. It was just weird. And, you know, the way they shuttled us in one at a time and leaving right after, the whole thing just felt really strange to me. So I'm just excited to be back in front of fans.

And I think it's going to be a rush again, just like, you know, it's been so long two years. It's going to be, you know, I don't know, man, like like it was five, 10 years ago, you know. like when I was young in the UFC and still, you know, feeling those, that vibe, man. I can't wait to build energy the fans. It's funny because when the whole Apex thing first started, like I kind of enjoyed it because I did enjoy hearing the corners, you know, the coaches, these things you just can't normally.

Like I got used to hearing somebody because when I go to fights, they always sit us in media. We sit right behind one of the corners, whether it's the red corner or blue corner. And so I get to hear a lot of times, coaching and things like that, which is fun. But it was kind of fun at the beginning. I was like, oh, this is kind of cool. Like, I like hearing the advice.

It's kind of, you know, you really hear the impact of punches and all those kind of things. After like, like six months, I was like, all right, I'm done with this. I went to the fans back because there's just so much more energy and like the reactions and just the highs and the lows. Like you just can't replace that. Like I get it. I totally understand why they did it, of course.

But like, it's just not the same experience, man. Like when you see it, like when you go without fans to fans, it's, It's almost like night and day in terms of like seeing a card or being in a card. Yeah, I couldn't agree more, man. And some of those fights at the apex were just so good. I mean, well, it's UFC. I mean, there's always good fights, right? And without the crowd, it just doesn't feel as good, right?

Like there's something, you know, when you hear that crowd roaring for blood, there's something that there's an energy, man, that you can't replicate without that crowd. Yeah, absolutely. And I know this one was rescheduled. I know you had to deal with a little bit of COVID, which actually knocked you back from fighting. Was it the fight? I remember that correctly?

So obviously you're past that and everything. But in a weird way, like never, you never, you know, of course you would have liked to fight in December and then maybe fight again in March. But is there any party that's kind of excited that worked out this way in terms of like getting to fight at home? Because again, you know, you don't have, you don't always get opportunities to fight at home. I mean, there's guys and girls who, you know, they live in places where there will never be a card. They live in places where MMA's not allowed, like whatever. So is it kind of cool it worked out this way?

Yeah, it's fine. Either way, like I said, I love getting in the cage and another man being across from me and competing against them and trying to knock his head off while he's trying to knock my head off. I don't care where it's at. I don't care who's across the cage. I like being in there. So, you know, it's always exciting, man. It just doesn't matter, bro.

The fact that it's a home, that's going to be awesome on Sunday or Saturday night after the fight. That's what's awesome about that. Before, it don't mean a damn thing to me. Yeah, Barbarina is the opponent again, too. I really like this fight. I'm actually really glad they remade that. Of course, he ended up getting a win.

He got a replacement opponent when you had to drop out. He got a replacement opponent, got a win. Barbarina's one of those guys, man. It's kind of when you fought Diego Lima. Like, we don't really need to say much about it because Barbarina is just that guy. You know, he's going to come in. He's going to be toughest nails. he's not like a crazy trash talker he's not going to try to say crazy things to like amp up the fight

it's just gonna be a fun fight dude he's a tough like hard-nosed dude i've known brian i'm not gonna sit in line and say i know him super well i've interviewed him a few times and you know texting with him but you know real nice guy incredibly hard-nosed fighter just makes for a fun fight yeah i couldn't agree more man he's just a uh a grinder man you know lives on the farm and stuff and um just kind of comes out of the woods and comes in braw as it goes back, man. And, you know, just a all around, you know, seems like a really good guy, man, you know, a family guy. But damn, you know, he could take a shot, man.

And he can, he's got a motor for days. So I look forward to it. I think it's a great matchup. I think it's an exciting matchup. And, you know, I might have to be mentally sharp and firing on all cylinders to get in there and whoop his ass. and then we're going to have a great after party and have some whiskey and cigars

and move on to the next one then. It's funny. I'm always curious, you know, because you have a lot of knockouts on your record, I'm always curious when you fight a super tough guy who's not known for being finished, you know, Brian Barbering is not a guy you put away easily. I think about Diego Sanchez is a good example.

Like Diego, dude, say what you want about Diego Sanchez. That dude's tough as nails. Like you just don't go out there and wipe him out. You just don't. And then you go out there and knock him out. Of course, we know one of those famous elbow knockouts in the history of the sport. Do you take pride when you can do that to a guy?

Like when you go in there with like a super, super tough guy like Barbarina, like that's not a guy you go in there and typically wipe off the board. Like do you get a little extra smirk? A little extra pride when you go out there and beat a guy like that and knock him out? I think it's the same with everyone, man. I mean, I just look at it as a, it's just a human being. cross the cage from me.

I don't necessarily search for the knockout. I go out to beat the guy, beat him down, hurt him, put some elbows into a skull. I just want some bone-on-bone contact and make this guy suffer. And if that knockout comes, it comes, man. I think the times when I did try to get knockouts or tried maybe too hard for certain things, those were mistakes that I made. So now my focus is really like, I'm going to go out there. I'm going to make this guy just look bad all around.

And that's kind of, you know, what I was looking to do with Diego, you know, for example. I wasn't really looking for a knockout. He just presented one to me. So, you know, but I was out there trying to showcase my skills and and beat him technically. I was able to do that. And I plan on doing the same with the Barbarina. Yeah. Did you see that Diego retired?

I did not. No, I've seen that he fought Kevin Lee and apparently. Oh, no, Diego, Diego Lima. I'm sorry, Diego Lima, the last guy. Oh, no, I did not see that. Another Diego, sorry, I mixed up Diego. Yeah, Diego Lima, the last guy you fought. No, I didn't.

You know, that's a surprising, man. He's young, very talented. Wow, that's, yeah, that's very surprising. But I think, you know, he's like preaching or something, right? Like, he's a big Jesus guy or something, right? Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, I think so. I have to look it up.

I wasn't really prepared to, like, look at it, but I know he had something going on, like, some sort of, because he had booked a fight, if I'm not mistaken, and then, like, he had to drop out. And it's crazy, man, like, because you don't know, like, you know, what, like, I always, I love, I just had this conversation, and I did a story about it a couple weeks ago about Hafeld de Sanios.

He just got to win, of course, you know, at UFC 272. And I said, man, there's not enough set about longevity in this sport. Like when you can stick around and be like a real viable fighter, you know, for 15, 20 years. Like that's so hard to do. You know what I mean? Like when you think about when you start in the UFC to where you're right now from the ultimate fighter to now, like that's, dude, I don't care. Titles, no titles, whatever the case may be. That's freaking hard, man, to like stick around and do what you like, because I thought about that with Josannios.

I'm like, God, this guy's been there. I think he's at like 15 years in the UFC. And I'm just like, dude, I don't think. I think people take that for granted, man. like how hard that is. Like I know they booked the fight, like Joe Lozahn's got a fight coming up, same kind of thing.

I'm like, dude, it's so hard to make it to the UFC, but to me it's even harder to stay in the UFC and to do it for like a decade, 15 years. Like, dude, that's ridiculous.

Yeah, yeah, it's not easy, man. And, um, I don't know, man.

I think some of us, you know, like a Dosanos or Lozahn, you know, we're in this for life, man. And this is what we love doing. You know, people like me, man, I'm just, I'm blessed that I've been able to, my body's

been able to hold up. My mind's been able to hold up. And I tell everybody, man, you know, the hard part really isn't the fight. You know, we could, like, if I, if I didn't have nothing else in my life except fighting, it'd be pretty easy, you know, like, we love training. We'll just go in, train every day. That's all we do. It's all the outside things. You know, you got business and you You got to make money, you got family, you got, you know, all this other, all these other distractions, man. That's what makes it hard. And I think that's why a lot of people retire, man. It's just life itself kind of brings them down.

And it's hard to keep that focus. You know, so there's people like me or, you know, I'm sure Dosayneos, Lizana like this, you know, we just got that ability to, you know, put everything else to the side, push everything away from us, live in our own world. and just focus on what we want to do with our life, man. And, you know, I tell all the young fighters, you know, look, if this is something you want to do for long term, you know, you basically have sentenced yourself to a world of solitary confinement for life. You know, you can't expect to have really good relationships.

You can't really expect to have, you know, you're going to miss birthday parties with your kids. You're going to miss weddings and few enrollments. and, you know, I mean, there's all kinds of shit you're going to miss. You're in solitary confinement, bro. You're in your own world. So you got to deal with that. A lot of people, I think, just can't deal with that.

Again, you know, guys like me or LaZan, DeSanos, these guys are talking about. I think that's where we excel, you know, and that's why we're able to do it. Yeah, it's funny you say that because we always talk about training and how, you know, harder on the body that can be. And I've talked to a million guys to say, the heart. parts the training camp not the fight because that's where you really put the you know you're doing it you know two three four hours a day putting damage on your body or whatever but there's always those outside factors we kind of take for granted like you know like i've heard you know when fighters

you know i've talked to fighters after a loss and they talk about well you know like i'm not making excuse like i was going through a tough divorce or or you know my kids were sick or my my mom was sick or these are little like these are little things that we don't and i understand like fighters don't really like to talk about a lot because it does sound like an excuse but it's real like that mental strain that you go through man it can it can screw you up worse than an injury sometimes like when you don't have your mind in it you don't have or you have something else going on whatever like i've heard from like taxes like all kinds of crazy stuff can hit you from all angles right before a fight and if you're not mentally ready disaster man and it's so hard like i think

that like it just it gets taken for granted like how hard it is to stay like on the path when you're getting ready for a fight. And it's just like I've heard so many horror stories of that. They have nothing to do with training. I have nothing to do with what happens at the gym. You know, it's, you know, it's relationships, whatever. Yeah, that's all it is, man. And that's what I'm saying is like the training isn't the hard part, you know.

That's why I think that's a lot of reason why like younger, younger athletes do better. Like they have less distraction. You know, when you're talking about, you know, college or, you know, mid-20s, whatever, you know, they ain't got no kids yet. They ain't got, you know, deep relationships, long-term relationships. You know, they don't have so many people trying to take advantage of them all the time. Then, you know, they don't have to worry about when they're 50 or at least not worried as much about when they're 50 and how they're going to make money then. You know what I mean?

So there's just like so much less distraction. So they can pour all their focus into that. When you start getting up into older ages, you know, you get kids, you got businesses and all these things. That all pulls your focus away, all of it. And if you don't know how to handle that properly, it's going to tear you down bad. And that's, again, you know, I think, you know, some of us guys, we just have the innate ability to overcome that. we got the focus we got the mental fortitude all these different things to overcome that whereas most people don't yeah i mean the stress of fighting is is hard enough right like i mean just

you know you you got to get into shape you got to uh die you i mean you got 24 hour job you know you don't you don't do all the right things just dude might my fuck you up and kill you in the in the cage you know you know and you're trying to get to a title or you're trying to when your next, you know, whatever it is. That's a lot of stress on its own. And then you start piling on all these other things. You know, it takes a certain person to be able to handle that shit. Yeah.

It's crazy because, of course, a lot of people remember a couple years ago before the Diego Sanchez fight, let me clarify which Diego this time. You had talked about retirement. And then, of course, after that, you've continued to go and you've had several fights since then. I'm curious because I think I kind of know the answer, but I'm just, you know, because I know you, but I'm also, like, you know, kind of curious about this. Like you, of course, started your own gym, Immortal martial arts, which is doing really, really well.

Of course, you got a big team up there, saw the photos. I know I saw Lance Palmer's been coming in. I know Mickey Gall comes through from time to time. You got a good team. How much, how much did, like, having, finally having that home base of, like, having your gym and having your own team, the team that you're coaching and working out of? Like, did that play any influence in, like, what you're going to right now? like being able to like, I don't say you've ever lost the passion.

I know better than that. But you know what I mean? Like to kind of like reignite the passion, like kind of add that extra fuel to the fire. I know how much you love your gym. And it feels like, you know, you're hitting on all cylinders in that gym. I don't know. Does it make a difference? Because it feels like, you know, it feels like that can be like a little extra fuel to the fire.

Yeah, it's definitely a fuel to the fire. Man, a lot of it just having a new inspiration, you know, having these younger guys come in. And especially like, you know, the kids in the gym, looking up. up to you and just giving me more and more inspiration, man, more motivation. You know, I'm a disciplined person and I'm able to get in there and train no matter what. But when you add in some motivation and you're inspiring others and others are looking up to you, that adds a lot to that also. And that's what my gym has brought me, man.

It's really got just another level of inspiration. and, you know, we got some young killers in there, man. We got some kids. Maybe it might take five or ten years that, you know, these guys are the next generation that are really going to put some beat downs out there. So, you know, just giving them something and inspiring them just means a lot to me. It's very fulfilling. Yeah, I know.

And I know you said it. I don't worry. repeat what we talked about in past podcast, but I know you said it many, many times, like, when it's all said and done, when you finally do walk away from actually fighting, you know, you've talked about how much you're going to love coaching. I mean, you're already coaching now, but, like, the fact that you're going to be so dedicated to coaching, and I know that's a big deal for you. And again, like, you're still fighting. I mean, you're about to fight, you know, the freaking matter of days from now, but, like, when it's all said and done, like, I know how excited

you are to just be a coach one day. Yeah, yeah. I think, uh, I, I, I, I, really do enjoy coaching. I think it'll be very good at it. We'll see how it plays out though. You know, like, that's not, the coaching is not something that you necessarily say, like, this is going to be my career. You know, like, it's not a, it's not, you know, you know, you don't have to agree on the wall, you know, in getting paid, you know, salary. You know what I mean? So, it's kind of a, you know, probably just do it more for fun. I don't know. We'll see how it works out, man. You know, right now, there's a few guys that I'm coaching, bringing up and helping a lot.

But we'll kind of just see how it plays out, you know. Yeah, it's funny. I remember talking to you, I care of which fight it was, like fairly recently. We were talking, I can't remember who's on a show, we were just talking all, but you were talking about, like, you know, how good you're feeling. And there's no, like, we talk about longevity. Like, there's no right or wrong way of how a career is going to go. Like, we've seen it where, you know, a guy like Randy Couture goes until he's 46,

and we see some guys retire at, you know, 25, 30. I mean, there's no right or wrong answer to it, but I know you said you're feeling healthy and better than ever. Is it kind of crazy? Like, the work you can put in on your body over a career. And again, that goes back to the longevity question. But like, I know you said, you feel incredible. Like, I know they say age ain't nothing but a number. And it's true to a certain point.

But, you know, like I said, you know, what you're able to do at 40 is different, what you're able to do at 20. But is it kind of crazy like the, you know, the way you're feeling now, you know, versus maybe even like five, six years ago, like how you've been able to make. maintain it and build and get better. Yeah. Gosh. We could get into that for a long time, to be honest. You know, we could do a whole podcast just on that part right there. I'll say this.

I'm ready for this fight right now, and I'm going to go out there. I'm going to be prepared to smash this guy. So maybe that'd be a whole subject for a podcast. We'll go over someday. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. It is an interesting subject, right? Like, there's a lot to be said about that.

Absolutely. And, you know, I think there's a lot of different ways to go about it, you know. I mean, first, it depends on, you know, what the athlete wants, right? Does the athlete want to do this for life? You know, like, for instance, like Connor McGregor, like, I don't have any in any reason to believe that he was in this for life, right? He wanted to get in, make a bunch of money and, you know, maybe get out or, you know, maybe do what he's doing now.

And, you know, I don't think he was in it for life. There seemed like a beat, right? Like, he wasn't in for life. He wanted to come in and smash everybody, make money, and then get out, right? And that's what he did. And then there's other guys like a Randy Couture, right? That, you know, he wanted to do this for a long time and or guys like me or, you know, Luzon, whatever, you know, or Anderson, so.

he's kind of a lifer. You know, so it depends on, you know, what people want out of it, you know. And then how do you train, you know, based around that, right? If you're in a short time, you know, you can take more risks and you can train maybe a different way than you would if you're, if this is more of a marathon than a sprint. Yeah. Do you mention Anderson, it's so funny. You know, Anderson, when he was at the tail end of his U.S. seat career, like a lot of people, and I'm not going to lie and say I wasn't among them.

He's like, you know what? I kind of wish Anderson was done. Like, I just don't want to see him get beat, you know, he was losing fights and he wasn't looking great. And I'm just like, man, it just kind of breaks your heart. Like the guy's a legend. You don't want to see him go through that. Boy, I tell you what, man, he came back in boxing and boy, he proved me wrong.

He goes out there and beats Julio. I'm not going to say Chavez Jr. is the greatest box in the world. But for Anderson to go out and style on him the way he did against like a legit, like, you know, whatever, 34. 40 career boxer, former champion, whatever. And I knew, I mean, I knew he was going to beat Tito Ortiz. I don't think there was any shock there, but to go out there and just obliterate him in like 30 seconds, I was just like, dude, I've had so much joy watching like this new

like Anderson Silva boxer. Like, dude, it's been so much fun, like, rooting for him and just watching him go out there and just smash people. Like, again, I don't know how far he's going to take it. I don't know he's going to fight Jake Paul, Logan, but I have no idea. But just these two fights. It's been so fun to watch. Anderson go out there and be Anderson again.

And that's the fight, man. Jake Paul, I want to see it, bro. I mean, we know Anderson would smoke him. No doubt about it. But that's a, you know, that's a huge fight, man. And everybody would watch it. And I mean, if Jake Paul doesn't get smoked, then, you know, props to him. You know, I think Anderson probably would.

But if he doesn't, you know, shit, man. Maybe the guy's for real, right? Like, that's actually, you know, the perfect test for him. And he's actually someone his. his size and his weight is perfect. I want to see it. Yeah, I did too. I did too.

You know, I've talked to Jake a few times. I think we actually did the podcast right after he fought Woodley the first time. I think you and I did it. And we were talking about it. And listen, dude, like, again, say what you want about him. I mean, to go out there and, you know, face plant Woodley the way he did, you know, impressive on that regard. And listen, dude, I've talked to Jake.

Like, I know he's an online guy, but like, Jake was actually like an incredibly nice guy when I spoke to him because I met him in Cleveland. to it. I went to the fight with Woodley. And, uh, real nice guy. And, dude, like I said, man, I'll never fault anyone for going out there and getting money and doing their thing, you know, someone's going to pay a million dollars, like, good for you. I agree, though. Like, I love the Anderson Silva fight. Dude, if he could be Anderson, I'm not saying I'm not a Jake Paul believer already. Listen, he ain't beating Canello or guys like that. We all know better. That's ridiculous. But, uh, if he wants to,

if he's, if he's seriously wants to show he's a legit dude, gone and fight Anderson, because that Anderson will test him. Like that is a, that is going to be a test. That's, that's my point. I don't have nothing against Jake Paul. I love what he's doing personally. I mean, you know, it's not, I mean, there's kind of like two pieces, right? Like there's guys that are competitive looking, you know, to go for the title, you know,

and they're in either top rank or, or, you know, Eddie Hearn. You know, I mean, they're in all these different organizations. Or, you know, if you're in the UFC, you're trying to get to the, the title or Bellator or whatever. He's doing his own thing. It's completely separate from all of the competitors trying to get to a title or whatever, you know, they're trying to build their legacy or whatever it is they're trying to do. He's in a different world.

That's where I think people always make those comparisons. Like, like, oh, you know, he should fight, you know, Charlo or, you know, whoever, whatever, Gennady or Canella or something. It's like, that's not what he's doing, you know. entertaining and I think if we look at it you know differently like that you know he's like the pro wrestling versus you know Olympic wrestling right like it do with something completely different and if we look at it like that then you know it's up to him if he wants to try to prove himself or if he just wants to entertain if he wants to entertain yeah you know go fight uh ben ask gran and

tyrone woodley if you want to prove yourself now you got to fight Anderson Silva or somebody a real boxer and then if you really want to prove yourself then you got to you know start fighting top rank guys you got to start fighting um you know real contenders yeah one thing i do agree with jake about though and i had this conversation with him before the the i think it was the first woodley fight uh we were talking about like you know everyone's like you know Dana has taken shots a lot of people taking shots saying you fight real boxers fight real boxing but dude if you look at boxing and you know i know that i know you know this because you're a big boxing guy outside of guys like i think lozman chinko fought some pretty legit guys very early in his career but most

boxers don't man like you look at any boxer's record they're going 15 fights before they fight somebody with like a winning record like that's just i don't i'm not saying i agree with it i'm just saying that's how boxing works like you do not fight good people typically in boxing until you're real deep in your career like that's just an old school boxing trick to build up and pad your record because we see boxers all the time to go to 20 and 0 22 and 0 25 and oh and that never happens in mama because you don't get that opportunity typically in MMA, you're fighting tough guys, you know, right out of the gate in boxing, like I said. And, dude, I'm not, like, I've said a million times, like, I like Jake.

I like what he's doing, and I'll never fault anyone for going out there and getting money, dude. If someone's going to pay him 20 million to go fight Tyron, well, they good for him. You know what I mean? It's not my fault to care. Now, do I think he'd beat Anderson Silva? No, I think Anderson Silva is legit, and that would be an incredibly, incredibly difficult fight. Anderson's a legit boxer with real knockout power. I don't know that I like that for Jay.

I don't know that I like that for a lot of people. So, you know, that's probably the worst possible matchup for him as far as, like, inexperienced guys. But, dude, if he wants to fight, if he wants to fight Tyron Woodley 20 times and make $20 million, more power to you. Yeah, I'm on the same page, man. You know, more power to him.

But as long as, again, like, I'm not going to be that guy calling him out, like, oh, go, you need to fight boxers. You need to fight real boxers. Look. does he want to try to be an entertainer, or does he want to try to be a world title holder? If he wants to be a world title holder,

yeah, you're going to eventually have to start fighting real boxers. If you want to be an entertainer, then fucking fight whoever you want. Who cares? You know, I'll watch. It's exciting. You know what I'm saying? It's cool.

But do you like his chances against Anderson? No, no, I think. But, you know, we also don't really know who, Jake Paul is as a boxer. You know, watching him fight Tyrone Woodley, I mean, he looked good. He did the same thing Anderson probably would have done. So we don't really know, you know, what his level is.

Yeah. But again, when you look at Anderson and you see what he's done, we know his skill set, we know what he's capable of. Beating Chavez is no joke, even though, you know, Lord knows if Chavez even trained a day for that fight. you know, you know, Travis is who he is. So, you know, good for Anderson. But we have a pretty good idea of what Anderson's skill set is, what he's capable of.

We don't really know what Jake is. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like we haven't, we haven't seen him tested. We haven't seen him in deep waters. We haven't seen him have to work through adversity in a fight. We haven't seen him, you know, in, you know, in, a real boxing matches.

You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I do. You don't know. Yeah, and listen, like I said, the Anderson fight, like, I love Anderson. I think Anderson, and you're right. Chavez is like, listen, he's not his dad. We all know that.

And he's never been that guy. He was never like a top-rank guy. But I'll tell you what, and I mean this, you know, with all the utmost respect in the world for every MMA fighter who wants to cross over to boxing, but 99% of the time, you know, you're going to cross over, I'm going to take the boxer to beat the MMA guy coming off his couch because it's just a different sport. Like, you can train by, you know, it's like, it's like going into wrestling. Like, when you know, when you're going into, like you, I saw your post, you talked about

you train with Colin Moore, the Ohio State guy. And like, I saw Jaden Cox that's some training with John Jones. Like, dude, it's a different, it's a different world to go in there and do that. And box is the same way. Like, I'm not going to say you couldn't be good at it. I'm sure a lot of people who would be good at it. If you go in there and fight a real, legit, like, championship level boxer coming off his couch, he's probably going to beat the snot out of it. And that's just because it's just a different sport.

That's just the reality of it. No, yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, the fact is, you know, most of the M.A guys we've seen crossover, it's not like they learned boxing, work their way up the ranks or anything. I haven't seen that. You know, Connor going straight to fighting Floyd. Like, what the fuck, bro? Like, you're finding Floyd. You know, like this guy was, was boxing when he was three years old, you know, like, you know, so, and when you get guys, you know, when you look at the, the 10, 15, 20 years you've been training, and you've been training in wrestling, striking, Muay Thai, jihitsu, all these different things.

and this guy has only done boxing, you know, you're at a handicap. Yeah. Did you see what happened to Conlin over the weekend? I did, yeah. Oh, my God. Like, that's the, dude, there's a reality.

Like, I know, like, Oosman's talking about fighting Canella, and you will not find a bigger fan of Kamar Usma on the planet. I think he's amazing. And, you know, I think he's, you know, again, best welterweight in the sport, no doubt about it. Canello is the best pound for pound boxer in the sport. It's not close. He's amazing.

Like, come on. Like, I love, I love Usman. I'm, again, you will not find a bit. And dude, if he wants to go over and fight Canelo and get paid $30 million, more power to you. I said the same thing about Francis and Ghanu fighting Tyson Fury. I joked with Curtis Blades when I talked to him. I said, dude, pay me $30 million.

I'll go ahead and get knocked up by Tyson Fury tomorrow. Like, dude, whatever. But, and I get it, you're going to, if you're trying to get the fight, you're going to hype it up. But come on. I mean, really? You're not fooling anybody. You know, like, who do you think you're full in saying that stuff?

But I would argue that Gennady is actually better than Canello. I would argue that he won both those first two fights, by the way. And I hope they get again. So when we talk about pound for pound in boxing and everybody puts Canello up there, he said, Gennetti beat him twice, in my opinion. I definitely thought he won the first fight. Second five was a little closer over my mind. The first fight, I definitely agree.

I think he won. I agree. The second fight, I think, is debatable. The first fight, I thought getting at, he won hands down. Very, very clear. I'm surprised it was even as close as it was. I thought he won eight rounds to four,

maybe even more than that. But Triple G or Canelo, I don't see any MMA guy cross the number beat. You know what I mean? No, no. Yeah, because, I mean, you're talking about guys, like, like triple G, you know, this guy was an Olympic boxer.

He was, you know, a multiple-time champion. I mean, this guy's only done boxing for so long. Like, what makes you think that you're going to do, beat him at what he does, you know? It's like, I don't know. It's weird. But again, I don't know who they think they're fooling. I think Camaro could do great against some boxers. I think he would do very well in boxing.

I think he could probably even get to, like, maybe the top 10 in boxing. but you ain't beating Genada. You ain't beating Canello? Yeah. Oh, I agree. Canello, I think,

I think Camaro's an incredible athlete and I think he's, you know, an incredible fighter all the way around. I don't doubt he could do it. But, you know, again, I don't, you know, even like,

you listen, you will, again, I will not, I will not speak of one ill will, one ill word about Francis Agano. Incredible dude. Unbelievable fighter. One of the nicest people

I've ever talked to in this sport. Genuinely nice guy. and listen, he'll send you to the moon if he hits you with a punch. We all know that. Like, there's no doubt about that. So in that regard, sure, there's a chance because if Francis and God who lands cleanly on you, chances are you not surviving. But that being said, Tyson Fury took the best punches ever from Deonté Wilder,

who is a legit one-punch complete knockout artist and he couldn't put him away. Now, I'm not saying you couldn't land. I agree you could absolutely land. now I do I would say I think that Ingano could do better in boxing like I I would give him a chance against Wilder Joshua, Ballou, you know, these guys. I would give him a really good chance against those guys. He's not beating Tyson Fury. Tyson Fury is a special motherfucker and that's all there is to it. But I would give him a good shot at the top 10 and be up there.

in the talks with all those guys more so than at the lighter weights like a usman or even you know whatever other lighter weight guys you know the heavyweight guys is just a big yeah you're a big boxing guy am i wrong in thinking like like in heavyweight you can get away with just being a really really big puncher sometimes like you know what i mean like it's yeah this is not a it's not a knock on like everyone loves like mike tice is a great example like i i i'd like Mike Ty, it's not that, but like when Mike, and it's not saying Mike Tyson wasn't skilled. I'm not saying that whatsoever. But when Mike Tyson, you know, got to the guys like my favorite box of all time, I think

I've told you this before and you always kind of like laugh when I tell you this. My favorite box of all time is Lennox Lewis. I loved Linux Lewis. I loved watching the box. When you get to a super technical guy like that, like you just can't go out there and expect to knock him out. You know what I mean? And that's what we saw like the disparity in like boxing skill between Mike Tyson and

Linux Lewis. And I think it's the same way there. like Francis Ngano hits so freaking hard dude. He'll beat out, he'll beat a lot of heavyways just because it's like, I wouldn't say Deonti Wilder is the greatest, most technical boxer. He's not.

I don't think anyone's going to lie to you and say he is. But he'll knock your head into the, you know, the fourth freaking row if you give him one open shot. And Ganu can do that as well, but then you get to like the Ussics of the world, who's a really technical box, a really good guy.

Look what he did to Joshua. It's like, those are the fight, like, you're going to have to, like Francis has got a better chance because he, again, he can send you to the, moon with one shot. But, you know, you look at a Tyson Fury. I mean, dude,

Tyson Fury is unbelievably good. And like, it's ridiculous. Like, dude, I've come so far around on Tyson Fury, dude, when he fought Clitchco, and that was such a, just a not good fight, I don't know a better way to say it. I was like, dude, I don't want to see this guy fight anybody. And now I'm like, I'm huge into Tyson Fury. Like, I love Tyson Fury. Yeah, we all love Tyson Fury, man. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, yeah, you're on the same page as me. It's just a different skill set when you get to heavy weight and that power goes so so far it can take you so far i mean got dante wilder where he's at right and we seen we seen what happened when he fought a you know someone with some real skill that can take a shot and um you know i'm excited to see what

usick is going to do here man i mean this is this guy is just phenomenal i just i can't watch enough of this guy man him loma chaco you know they both got the same trainers i i can watch these guys all day, every day, man. Their movements and their traps, they set, their footwork, it's just phenomenal. And I don't ever remember seeing boxing like this in my life, man, especially with Longachinko. I mean, you could go back through all the boxing history, which fuck up. Lord knows I have half the time, half of it at least.

And, I mean, there's no one that's moved like these guys before, man. So it's amazing. And I'm interested to see how. far that's going to take Uysook in the heavyweight division, mainly because he is undersized for the heavyweights, you know, like when he gets up with, you know, I mean, he certainly did a great job with Joshua, you know, if he's got to deal with Wilder or particularly Fury, you know, he's going to be very undersized for these guys. And it's going to be interesting to see if he can make up for it with that movement. Yeah, it's crazy. Like I wasn't shocked to

seen be Joshua but how like the way you beat him like I was just like geez like I knew he was good but I was like holy crap yeah yeah I picked him to win that fight but I was like I was really nervous about that pick you know I was like I think I put a little bit of money on him like a hundred bucks you know something small and I was like I was like dude I don't know man because um again that size difference but boy did he fucking perform man I mean that guy is so good so I'm excited to see how he does against the better guys. I didn't know if he'd wager anymore after what happened to you with Jose Aldo and Connor McGregor a few years ago, man.

I figured you'd be done betting forever after that, that humiliating loss to me. I'm just saying, like, that was like the worst night of your life right there because I just completely... I want rematch, man. I still want that rematch. That goes back to our old show. We did it on the air.

You said, oh, Aldo's going to beat McGregor. We put a bet on it. I was like, all right, all right, let's see what happens. I know, no, I know you're not going to forget about that. Never, never will. And I'd still say if a fight went, you know, went, went long, I would have got him, man. I still think out it was the better fighter.

Did you talk about a career rejuvenation, though? Look at Jose Aldo. Dude, when he said he was going to bantam weight, I was like, come on, man, like, you're going to cut off a leg to make that weight class because he was not a small featherweight. Like, he was always ripped up a featherweight. dude i mean yeah he lost the yon which i think peter yon's a freaking monster dude that kid's so good uh but like the stuff he's done lately man aldo i'm just like good lord man like this is like and i know

he's not really that old like he's you know i think he's like what 32 33 34 maybe something like that but like just the the fact that he's now making it yeah he's still super he's got that i think he's got that Brazilian young i'm not sure if he's actually 34 but you know whatever but uh like you know when no garret like when no garra came in said he was like 35 I'm like, yeah, dude, you're 44. Come on now, slow down. But, dude, like, the stuff he's been doing at Bantamweight's ridiculous. I'm just like, good Lord.

Like, you're not supposed to cut weight and then go down and do what you're doing right now. Yeah, yeah. What a great fighter, man. I hope he sticks around for a long time. And I want to see him get the title back, man. He's always been one of my favorites. Yeah, he's awesome. He's amazing, dude.

Like I said, we've done a career longevity. There's a guy. Still arguably one of the best feather weights of all time, if not the best featherweight of all time. And now he's the top five bantamweight. I mean, good Lord, dude. Like, that's like, I talk about him and guys like Frankie Edgar. Like, I know Frankie doesn't get nearly as much respect as I think he deserves because he kind of, he was champion at a time when, you know, the sport was big, but he's still growing.

The thing about Frankie Eager was a lightweight champion and that dude is like a legit bantamweight. Right. So ridiculous, dude. Like, that dude had no business fighting 155 pounds. And he was a champion. What is, uh, what is Jose got coming up next? Oh, it's on his great. He wants, he wants Dillishaw.

He hasn't gotten booked you. Yeah, he wants Dillishol. Dillishol's coming out to knee injury and everything. I think Dillisaw is kind of waiting to see what happens with Yon and Sterling because he wants the winner. But I would like to see Aldo and Sanhagen. I think that would be an incredible fight. Yeah, yeah.

Boy, there's some good fights out there in that division. Did you train with San Hagan when you were on Colorado? Yeah, a little bit. You know, being such a disparity in weight, you know, we didn't partner up a lot or anything, but we were in the same room a lot. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of cool. It's funny because all your training.

travels like you know Seattle, Vegas, Colorado, it's kind of fun now that you just have your home base here in Columbus working up there

with Mark Coleman, of course, Coley in the corner. I saw Coley in the corner for A.J. Dobson a few weeks ago. Coley up there coaching. Like, it's got to be good,

man. Like, that's kind of one of the biggest benefits owning your own in your own gym is just like having one base. You traveled a lot during your career for fighting for like training.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just learned lesson, man. everything is within yourself, man. You know, I was always out searching for better training,

better training partners, better this, better that. And now, you know, it's all internally focused, man. And that's really what it all comes down to is just you got to focus on yourself, man, make yourself better. And it doesn't matter who's around you. You know, it's up to you to make yourself better. Yeah. And I know you got your kids up there training too now.

Yeah, man, my one son, he just won the grappling tournament to Arnold's last weekend. nice yeah you know he's a little killer man he's gonna be the next generation if he wants to i mean they're only 11 years old but um there and they're all the time trend man and they love it dude it freaks me out to no end that your kids are 11 that does not compute in my head like i i was around when they were born and i'm just like every time you post pictures i'm just like dude they can't be this old it's not right it's crazy right i mean i was in the ufc before they were even born. And every time I hear their age, like, they're 11, like, I've been to UFC that long. It's crazy. Now, they were at the fight in Cincinnati, of course, I remember as a

celebration after knocking out of Eric Silva that came in. Are they going to be coming to the fights in Columbus? Of course, yeah. Yeah, nice, nice. Yeah, now they're old enough. They probably can appreciate even more now, like they're actually older, like, because then, they were pretty young still back when that happened, right? Yeah, they were like three or four. Like, they fell asleep during my fight. Now they're going to be excited, though, be in front row for Dad's fight. Yeah, they'll be up in a, my buddy has a, what they call it, a sweet, like a box or whatever.

They'll be up there playing video games and eating food and just having a good time, man, and then Dad will come out, whips and then we'll go hang out after. Nice, nice. Well, they're just going to be awesome, man. Like I said, getting the crowd back here in Columbus, man. I'm excited. Like I said, I haven't been to a U.S. show in like three. years with the pandemic and travel and everything like I really haven't been to a show so I'm like

incredibly jazz to go to the fights uh here in columbus the the crowd's always good like dude it's so it's so crazy like it just feels like oh I'm just I'm getting excited already it's like a week away I'm just like jazz to like be down there and actually be amongst like the people again like dude it's just if I'm excited I'm just imagine how you're excited to go out there and punch somebody in the face yeah I mean hey I'm excited to be fighting man uh healthy and and strong and that's all I care about. And then again, you know, after the fight Sunday, that's when it all soaks in.

That's when it's all great, man. Before the fight, it's all laser focus. Who's going to be in your corner for this one? Cole, he'll be there. And then my coach Harrison and Dorian. Okay. Oh, Dorian. Okay. Okay. Has he been in town? Has he been in town working? I'll help be here this week.

He's coaching down at Nashville and May now. I go down there sometimes strength him. Yeah. And you go down there, train with him a little bit, come back, but he's going to come up for his fight. Is that the gym where I know he didn't train full-time? Is that where Chandler trains down in Nashville, M.A? Chandler owns it.

I don't know. Oh, okay, okay. A part owner? I don't know what he does training-wise there. I know he lives in Nashville, so when he's not. I know he trains down at Sanford and Florida, but I know he lives in Nashville. Like, that's where his family lives.

So, yeah, I haven't seen. seen Dorian in forever, dude. I think last time I saw Dorian was when, if you remember, we went out to Hoover Dam and I was hanging out there with you guys, and I think Dorian was out there. That's the last time I've seen Dorian. So it's been like years since I've seen him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I go down every now and then hang out with him and we have a good time, just no matter how many times I train with him, I learned something new every time. Yeah, he's a good, good dude. And always, of course, always having Coley in the corner. It's always fun, dude. It's so funny when he was, when he was cornering AJ and his fight,

that was in the apex so it was quiet and like dude you could pick out Coleman's voice anyway like 20,000 people or no people you're going to hear Coleman's voice hey that's one of the best parts about having in the corner you know when he's telling you something and you can feel the energy problem yeah it's so fun like I was up there I don't know a couple of fights ago when I came up to the gym when Mickey Gall was in town training with you and like I was out there watching him train coach and you were you were grappling Mickey and just seeing like dude it's just so fun to watch Coley out there coaching again man like I just love seeing it like he's

got such a wealth of knowledge, bringing such an energy to it. Like, it's just fun to be around Mark Coleman. And I know he's talked about, like, he's sober. He's going to that, which is awesome. So, so great to hear that. I texted with Colie a while ago. I think around his birthday, we texted. And just, it's just so, like I said, dude, like, you will not find a bigger fan of

of Mark Coleman and me. I mean, you know that. But, like, just, it's just so awesome to see him out there doing his thing. Yes. And just, it's great just seeing him sober and living good life, man, and happy. and, you know, I think the gym has brought a new energy, new motivation to his life. And, you know, he's helping a lot of the young guys, man. He's in there all the time coaching guys yelling at him.

Just an amazing thing, man. I love seeing it. Now, did he, the real question is, now that you got immortal martial arts, you know, it's been around for a while now, has Coleman brought in the Hammer House punching bag? Has he brought that in for like, you know, like, do you remember that? hammer house punching bag? Do you remember the story? He said back in the day when it was just like he was training out of his garage,

they didn't have any, they didn't have any training stuff. They just had one, one heavy bags. It was like him and Randleman and Phil Barone and everyone working on with one hammer house dummy. One hammer house punching bag. That's all they had.

Well, he'll put us through some hard ass workouts with that single heavy bag, though. I don't know if they'd call it the hammer house heavy bag, but he'll put you. through the grind, man. I see him do with people all the time. I love it. I love it. Well, Matt, I appreciate you coming on the show, man. As always, good training the rest of the way.

Man, I can't wait. I know you're excited, but I'm super excited, man. I love being, I've been a number of your fights, but I'm super excited to be in Columbus for this one. It's always cool to see a hometown show. Go home and sleep in your own bed afterwards. So good training the rest of way, bro. And we will, I'll see you down a fight weekend, like a matter of days now. Yes, sir. We know you love the thought of a vacation to Europe, but this time, why not look a little further?

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All for just $18. Okay, okay. Try the season's hottest flavors from the PC Holiday Insiders Report. Please feast responsibly. It is always good to catch up with the immortal himself, Matt Brown. Hopefully we'll be doing some more big stuff with him on the podcast in the coming weeks, of course, after his fight on March 26th. Right now, let me transition to my next guest. I go back with him quite a bit of ways.

He used to be a wrestler here in Columbus at the Ohio State University. He has now one of the top international wrestlers and one of the top representatives from the United States in the last two Olympics. and headed, I would imagine, towards his third consecutive Olympics in 2024. So, with no further ado, let's talk. The 2016 gold medalist, 2021 technically, silver medalist, Kyle Snyder. I am always happy to catch up with this man. He is an Olympic champion. He is a two-time Olympic medalist, and he is coming up to a big super match,

American against American coming up against Jaden Cox, March 6th. welcome in Kyle Snyder. Kyle, how are you? I'm doing good, man. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. Absolutely, Kyle. You know, it's funny, you're from Maryland.

You train in Pennsylvania, but to me, you will always be in Ohio State Bucke. I don't care where you go. You're always going to be from the Ohio State University. I should just announce you as that no matter what. Yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely a lot of my success, too, my time at Ohio State. and very thankful for all of that. Absolutely.

Let's start off with the super match. You know, I've been a guy, and I know we go back quite a few years when you were at Ohio State, and listen, I'm a huge wrestling fan, and I think the one, I'll say a mistake, but the one thing where wrestling has kind of come up short is not promoting these individual big matches.

I know they've done to beat the streets, competition in New York, things like that, but I've been a big proponent saying, man, we should have these big matches on, like, you know, a big stage, you do something special like UFC Fight Pass or some streaming service, whatever the case may be. When I saw the announcement about this, I was like, oh, this is perfect. Great match to, you know, great American wrestlers.

So how did this whole thing come about? Yeah, so, I mean, Rudez is, you know, the biggest apparel, footwear, brand in wrestling. And then, you know, they decided that they wanted to get into streaming and technique and, you know, just a video service. So they announced that this year and kind of to kickstart that whole thing. We wanted to have the biggest match that we could think of. And with me and Jay not being able to wrestle at the Olympic trials, that was a match that was heavily anticipated.

People were really looking forward to that. You know, we were able to sign that match up. And we're not just going to wrestle once, but we're going to wrestle on a best two out of three just like we would. If it was the Olympic trials, and, you know, I think Rundus does everything top-notch. So the way that they, you know,

and it's just the beginning, but the way that they've marketed it, the event and the event itself, I think it's going to be one of the best events wrestling has ever seen, and we're just going to continue to build off of that. Yeah, I know Rudus has been a big supporter of yours for a lot of years.

You got the signature shoes through them and everything like that. You know, one of the biggest issues with wrestling, and especially in the United States, the past years has been, you know, the financial support that wrestlers didn't get. I know we all famously, you know, remember the Foxcatcher movie that came out, the Foxcatcher story of guys, you know, basically desperately trying to get some kind of money to just be, just stay being a wrestler. How important is it to have like a group like, you know, Rufus, a company like Ruta support you

and kind of get behind you, you know, for years at a time. They're not just here for one event. You've been with them for quite a while now. Yeah, no, it's so important. and I mean, I think wrestling as a whole is really growing. And, you know, I think just right before I kind of got on the scene, it was still challenging to just be a wrestler and compete on the international level. And there was a, you know, you just couldn't make enough money.

And especially if you wanted to have a family and stuff like that, I mean, all the money was really in coaching or having clubs and stuff. but now, you know, the best guys are making good salary. You know, you're supported by USA Wrestling. You're supported by your club that you wrestle in. And then obviously these other sponsors and stuff like that have now helped a lot of wrestlers. So it's all good. And I mean, Routis is, yeah, obviously just been so good to me.

So I'm very thankful. I'm not going to ask to see your bank statements or anything, Kyle. but I did want to ask you about the, you know, financially because, again, like, five, six years ago, you know, I had this conversation with Daniel Corbier, like, we talked about all the wrestlers coming into MMA and to mixed martial arts. And he's like, you know, that was a big part of it was because you couldn't really make money as a wrestler. And he was always, you know, of the mindset. Like, I love wrestlers coming into MMA, but I want wrestlers to stay in wrestling.

That's how USA wrestling gets better is that we keep, you know, Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Snyder, you know, continuing to wrestle for the United States. they don't feel like they have to go do something else. Financially speaking, have you gotten to a comfortable place in terms of being able to support yourself and doing it, you know, comfortably as you prepare for big matches like this,

of course, you know, another Olympic run, things like that. Everything's comfortable. Everything's good. I feel like I can, I have everything I need to compete at the highest level. So it's all good. Yeah. with Jaden, now correct me if I'm wrong.

I remember you guys had the match at the NCAA championship several years ago, and I followed your college career pretty closely. And I know you had that year, you know, the one year where, of course, you're coming off the Olympics, so you had kind of a weird year that year. How many times have you wrestled, Jayden? Is it just at once? We wrestled four times in high school, I think, or, you know, something like that, four times in high school and we split two and two or something like that in high school.

Then we wrestled once my freshman year of college at the NCAA tournament. And then we wrestled once in the U.S. Open my, the freshman year summer. So I won the match in the semis at the nationals and then I won the match in the semis at the U.S. Open. And then we've been different weight classes since then. So it's been seven years. since we've wrestled each other competitively. But, I mean, we have wrestled a lot together in training.

So, I mean, we're very, we know each other very well. Yeah. How much, maybe disappointment's the wrong word, because, again, you know, as a tournament goes, you don't know who you're going to be facing. And that's kind of the, you know, one of the great things about wrestling. You know, we can talk about matchups all day, but you have to win to get there. But was there any disappointment when you didn't get to wrestle him at the last? Olympic trials. I know, of course, the whole weight cutting thing, everything that happened

with that. Were you disappointed you didn't get, you know, to face him at that point? Just because, again, I know that would have been a really tough match going in the Olympics, or is that just the luck of the draw how it goes? Yeah, you man, I was preparing for, I was preparing for him primarily, you know, that pretty much that entire year because I knew that he was going to be the guy that I was going to have to beat him and Colin Moore for the two guys I was getting ready for. and I thought I was going to wrestle one of them, too, in the finals. And so, I mean, it was crazy that the way it all worked out, you know,

just the whole situation was wild. I mean, actually being in the, you know, in the warm-up area, watching him kind of roll around and stuff like that. And then all of a sudden you kind of just hear people freaking out and people yelling his name and stuff. And he's sprinting to the way ends like, yeah, I mean, just never thought that something like that could happen. So it was crazy.

And I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to the match. I'm looking forward to compete now. And I'm glad it's best two out of three. I think that's going to be even more fun. Yeah, absolutely. You know, you've spent so much of your career, even in college on the international wrestling scene.

We talk about, you know, the great matches you've had internationally. But how much fun is it to have, I say rival only because now you guys are going to to be in the same weight class and it looked like you guys were going to be in the same weight class for the last Olympic run. Before that, of course, Jaden got his bronze medal in the Olympics at a different weight class. But now that you do have this, and we, you know, we've had it before. Of course, Kyle Dake famously, Jordan Burroughs and there's other guys that have been around

these great American rivalries. And it kind of breaks your heart to, like, two of you guys couldn't go to the Olympics because I feel like, you know, there's so much talent in American wrestling right now. But how exciting is to have a guy like Jaden Cox, you know, in your weight class to be able to do a match like this to where the, the, the, you know, the, the, you know, the, the stakes are so high and the world will be watching because we don't always see that. You know, you might, you may talk about a weight class just see one really great American wrestler and they're so dominant.

But now we've seen this more. I mentioned the Dake Burroughs thing, you know, David Taylor's out there. I mean, David Taylor and Jaden Cox had some great matches. So, I mean, is there excitement about having another American, you know, in your division pushing you for a super match like this? Yeah. No, there is. You know, I'll be, I think that.

I get the best out of all of my opponents everywhere I go. You know, so it's like, I feel like every match to them is like a world final. And when I think about having somebody like Jaden Cox in my way class, you know, he gets the best out of me. You know, so I like having opponents like that where they motivate me in training. and I have to be sharp and continue to refine my skills because of the type of wrestler they are. So I'm looking forward to it. I'm glad that I'm glad he's coming up to 97 kilo. Any challenge, any challenger is good for me.

It's like, you know, to make the team, to make my first senior level world team, I had to beat an Olympic champion, you know, and that only. made me so much better because I felt like if I could beat if I beat somebody like that then you know of course I can win the world of course I can win the Olympics so I like having domestic competition that can really push me yeah and the other the fun thing about this is we kind of mentioned the growth of wrestling over the recent over recent years like I remember you know several years ago when there was that brief period of time where they were talking about taking wrestling out of the Olympics and everyone lost their freaking minds as they should have

and thankfully it didn't happen. But it feels like since then, we have really seen people getting behind wrestling because we used to, and we all noticed, like I always pay attention to the college wrestling season and I watch international competitions, but I fully admit I'm a bit of a rarity.

And, you know, back in the day, it was just you pay attention to the Olympic cycle and maybe the world championships. You know, you might watch the world championships, but mostly people care about the Olympic cycle. That's when people really got invested in wrestling. That's not the case anymore. We are seeing these big matches,

these big events happening where, you know, the NCAA championships are drawing huge ratings. And, you know, you and Jaden are doing this super match through Ruta's, which is awesome, which we, you know, eight, nine years ago probably wouldn't have happened because, again, people only seem to care about the Olympics. Is it awesome just to see this kind of growth and have this kind of opportunity where this is an Olympic match, but it feels like an Olympic match? Yeah. Yeah, it's good.

I mean, there's a lot of cards. And, you know, I think that. that's one of the best ways to showcase wrestling and is to have these type of matchups and stuff. And I mean, but, you know, the competitor in me really is like, I just want to go out there and compete. I'm not too focused. I'm not really thinking about the growth of the sport and all that.

It's like I guess the way that I grow the sport is just winning and competing in a dominant way that's exciting for people to watch. So that's what I'm thinking about. Yeah, let me ask you real quick with Jaden Cox as an opponent. You know, we know how good he is. And, you know, you've had, of course, you've had tech falls, you've had dominant matches, you've had these kind of things, but you know how you have to grind out a win sometimes. Can you kind of give me a little bit of preview?

What do you expect out of these matches with Jain? Like in your head are you like, I want to shut this guy down, 2O, and get done with him? Do you expect he could push you that third match? Like, kind of give me your anticipation of what you think you're going to get out of Jaden this match. Yeah, I mean, I think that. you know, he's a, he's got very good defense and he's athletic and, you know, he scrambles through positions well. So, and like I said, we've, we've wrestled a lot together in training. So I have a good idea of the way that he's going to wrestle me and his tendencies and stuff

like that. But, you know, in my mind, it doesn't matter who I wrestle. I'm always thinking and nobody can beat me. I want to tech ball everybody. So I'm thinking domination every time I get on the mat and it doesn't matter who it is. So that's my mindset. Yeah. Now I would argue that

in my opinion, Kyle, the biggest rivalry, the greatest rival we have in wrestling right now, and I don't mean to slight anybody else is out there, but I think the greatest rivalry we have in wrestling right now is yourself and Abdul Rashid Sadjali. I have, of course, the great wrestler out of Dagestan. And I thought, I saw in your Instagram, you of course went over to

Dagestan and spent time with him and in his country. And of course, they're doing the documentary through Roodis and everything. But it's funny because me coming from mixed martial arts primarily and covering mixed martial arts, we're so not used to seeing what we would consider rivals, you know, hanging out together and, you know, working with each other, helping each other. What was that trip like for you? How did that come about? And how was that trip like for you? because it seemed like, you know, he was very welcoming to have you in his country and showing you around doing the wrestling thing. Like, I don't know. Was it fun?

How did you enjoy it? Yeah, man, it was crazy. It was unlike any trip I've ever been on, you know, the hospitality in Afghanistan. It was just wild. They took care of us in just an amazing way. You know, we travel and got to see, you know, not just the cities. some hachgala and stuff like that, but we went into the villages where they were from and got to meet their family and, you know, it was, it was really different. So it was a really good

trip. And I don't think that it could happen. I don't know if I'll ever have another one like it. Yeah. How was it? I mean, again, this is the guy you've competed with so often. Of course, we always know you guys are, you know, pretty much when we look at a bracket, we look at a draw. We always just kind of assume it's going to be you and him in the finals. But how was that just like, hanging out with them on a personal level. And I don't know, did you guys get to train together at all while you're out there? No, no, we didn't get the train together. You know, we just, you know, really he was just showing us around the country.

So that's, I mean, they just really want us to have a good time. You know, I went over there to compete. At least I thought that's what I was going to do. But, you know, they just really just wanted to show us the country. and by the end of the week, by the end of the week, they were even asking, like, are you sure you want to compete in the tournament? You know, let's just spend another day doing what we want to do and stuff like that. So it was a different trip than what I had planned.

Yeah, I've heard they did a story, I think it was Vice News, to the story a few years ago about the growth, you know, the popularity of wrestling and how much wrestling means to the people in Dagestan. And at the time, you know, of course, Khabibna Magh, Medov was the UFC champion and Abdul Rashid Sadjaliyev of course was it was an Olympic champion and they said like people

over there like that like Khabib and and Sadjaliyev over there like what Michael Jordan and LeBron James are over here like they're just stars did you uh did you feel that going over there as a wrestler because like to from what I hear wrestling in Dagestan is like you know

that's that's our NFL that's their NFL over there yeah no I felt like it was even bigger than the NFL and the NBA and stuff like that in America. I mean, everywhere we went, I mean, I'm sure that's how it is for those guys too, but I mean, everywhere we went, they recognized not just who Saul-J-Live was, but who I was. And I'm somebody from a completely different country that they don't even see very often. So it was really different, you know, and just the way that they were able to take care of us,

like, I mean, we visited, we visited like senators' houses. We visited the governor, you know, of Dagestan, like the whole, the whole kind of, the whole area was aware of what we did. And they all wanted us to experience the country to the fullest. So it was wild. I mean, yeah, they're, they're huge stars. Wrestling is, it's on, wrestling in Dagestan is unlike, uh, any other place that I've ever been. Yeah, it's funny. I care who it was telling the story years ago. They went over to Dagestan for a wrestling tournament,

and they got a knock on their door. It was an American wrestler, but he got knock on the door, and I guess they were going to be meeting up with Habib Mugamatov, and they said, Khabib has provided you with a car or something like that, and they're just like, you know, he's going to, you know, they're basically throwing a party in like, Khab is like, you know, again, like LeBron James over there

where he's like the star, and he was just like, I've never seen treatment like this for anything. Like it was like it was ridiculous. Like they were treating me like I was a king, you know, coming into the country. And he was like, it was just so different from being in America where, of course,

we do celebrate wrestling, but it's just not the celebrity. It's just not the same. So it had to be a cool experience just like, you know, walking down the street and having like, I saw the video, like little kids running up and like,

you know, high five and you get an autographs. Like that had to be like a kind of a fun feeling. Yeah. No, it was really fun. I mean, yeah,

I mean, we only rode in like G-Wagons. You know, they took us out on the helicopters, stayed in the, like, nicest hotels, went to the nicest restaurants.

You know, it was like, it was different. And by the end of the week, I was tired. We were just nonstop, like, visiting one place to another,

to another, to another restaurant, to another meal, to another party, you know, it's just one thing after another. So it was, it was a lot of fun.

And that was, I've never, I've never been like, at the end of trips, I'm always ready to come home. And I was, I was ready to come home after this trip. But I also felt like I'm going to miss the people there because of the way that they took care of us. Yeah, I feel like that's a, that's a destination you'll have to go back to one day. I know it's like they call it with a mecca of wrestling out there. I feel like you're going to have to go back.

Yeah, Lord willing, definitely like to go back. Bring my family too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Kyle, you know, years ago when we chatted, this was after your first Olympic run, and I think it was right after college, and you had gone and attended a UFC event. I think it was in Cleveland. And you come out of that right away, and you were super pumped about, you know, UFC and mixed martial arts. I know you remember we did the interview where you said, I'm going to do it one day.

I'm going to fight one day. Now, this is a different time now, as I said before, though, with wrestling, because you actually can do wrestling and, you know, make a good living at it. And I think I saw another interview where you said, I want to be wrestling into my 40s. Like you were just really, really passionate about wrestling. Can I assume that the mixed martial arts dream has kind of gone away and your focus is 100% on wrestling now?

Yeah, that's right. That's right. I mean, I went to the Stipei Miochik fight, and then I went to the, when he first wanted to Cody Nola versus Cruz. Yeah. And Rousie versus Nunes. So, I mean, those were some big fights.

So, I mean, it's like the environment's just crazy. And you're like, man, I got to do this after you get out of there. But not now, you know, now I just see myself wrestling. You know, I don't know how long, however long God wills. I love it. So I'd like to do it for a long time. But whatever God wants me to do is what I'll do. And right now I'm just focused and getting prepared for this match in March.

Yeah. It's funny you say that because, as I mentioned earlier, like one thing that, you know, I always forget, I always remember Daniel Cormii saying that is like, we need guys like you. Because, you know, Kyle Snyder is going to push American wrestling to be better, you know, going into the next, you know, Olympics and going in the next world championships. And, you know, guys like yourself and Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Dake and David Taylor and all the guys that are out there, you know, means so much to the growth of American wrestling. And as you said, you're not really thinking about that. But, you know, as much as, listen, selfishly, like my. When you said that to me back then, I was like, oh, my God, greatest prospect immediately in, like, M.M.A. history of Kyle Snyder decides to fight an M.A. But there's a part of me as much as I'm like, ooh, you would be an amazing person. Like, I like, I was watching. Like, I stayed up till, you know, 5 o'clock in the morning to watch your wrestling match at the Olympics, like you and Gable and all the guys. So, like, there's a part of me that, like, selfishly, like, I like that you're in wrestling. Don't get me wrong. If you ever decided to do M.MA, I would 100% root for it. But again, I'm glad guys like you exist in wrestling. I'm glad guys like Jordan and. and Kyle and you guys are focused 100% on on wrestling and making wrestling what it is today.

Yeah. No, I think it's good. I mean, people are wrestling for a longer time. I mean, Jordan's going to be 34 soon. Dakes in his 30s. David's in his 30s. You know, guys are wrestling for longer. And because, like you said, there's more support and you're able to make more money and provide for your family,

especially if you're winning. So it's good. And I think we're just going to continue to. have a stronger team and continue to win, you know, world championships individually and as a team. So that's all going to be good for wrestling. And I'm looking forward to Bo Nichols entrance into pro fighting. I think that he's going to be a beast. I think that he's going to be somebody that can immediately have an impact on his division. So that's somebody I'm looking forward to coming into the fight world.

Yeah, he's a monster. I have. Boza. I've actually interviewed him before. Really nice guy and a monster. And I know he was doing, I think he was opening his own MMA gym and State College up there. So I'm not sure if you trained with him very much, but I know he was doing his MAA thing up there.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah, we train a decent bit together. So yeah, it's right, right in outside of State College, American Top Team Gym. So he's getting better and better for sure. Yeah, you know, it would be fun. I talked about, like, the MMA thing. I remember when I talked to Kyle Dake before the last Olympics, he had told me, like,

you know, of course, you know, of course, you know, as an MMA guy, we're always going to be like, are you going to fight? Are you going to fight? But, Kyle, you know, Kyle, you know, much like Jordan, Kyle's like, I really don't have any interested in fighting, but he had said, I would love to do, like, a wrestling match with, like, a high-level, you know, MMA guy. Like, he wanted to wrestle Khab Nirmagamatov. And I was like, oh, that'd be a lot of fun.

I know years ago they did a couple years ago they did you know Ben Ashgren came back and did the wrestling match with Jordan didn't go too well for Ben no shame in losing to Jordan Burroughs but uh we talked about promoting we talked about Ruta's doing this event with Supermatch like that like that to me would be a lot of fun I'm not saying like you have to like wrestle John Jones or Steve A or whoever but like that to me would be fun right like doing a wrestling match and getting a big name in there like that would be a lot of fun I think that would be something that every wrestler would be able to right Yeah, probably. I mean, I don't know. I just feel like, I just feel like it would be, you know, unless we were messing around, it would just be kind of too easy, you know. Like even even the, even the best guys, once you're kind of, once you're out of that sport, it would be a problem. It would be, it would be a problem.

I mean, we'd have to kind of mess around and let things happen. So, yeah. It's funny you say that. I saw Jaden was actually down in Arizona. He got some training in with John Jones. I don't know if you saw that. And John Jones came out and said, I don't want to misquote him,

but something to the effect of, I haven't been tossed around like that in my life. And Jaden, and John's walking around like 260 pounds right now, and he's like, Jaden moved me around like a child. Like everyone exactly said, but there is a, as Daniel Cormier says,

there are levels to this. And being a Kyle Snyder or a Jaden Cox, all the respect in the world for the John Joneses of the world, but they're not going to beat you in a rest of, wrestling match. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, but fans would like to see it.

Yeah. Hey, if they want to pay for it, why not, right? Like, if somebody wants to pay for it, do it. Yeah. Last thing where I get you out here, Kyle, you know, I was mentioned I was on your Instagram looking over everything going to the Super Match and your most recent post, raw liver. A little bit of maple syrup, a little bit of salt.

I remember when I was a kid, my dad used to love liver and onion. and I have never smelled a more disgusting food in my entire life than cooked liver and onions. How is raw liver with maple syrup and salt on it? It's better than it's cooked. Like the cook, cooking it gives it that weird, really weird texture. You know, like when it's raw, it's not as bad. And you can, I mean, that piece was huge. That was the first one I ate.

So I didn't know, like, what to do with it. But now I, like, cut it up into smaller pieces. And it's really no big deal. But for me, like, I can eat anything if it's going to help with my performance. So I don't care what it is. And I don't care how discipline I have to be with my diet and nutrition and all that. Like I can do whatever it takes if it's going to help me. So that's my mindset.

Is that, is that a, forgive me for asking. I'm not as knowledgeable on this. Like, is the raw liver a big deal like in terms of nutrition when you're getting ready for Emily? Is that something that's like known or talked about? I had not heard of that before. I believe liver is like the most nutritious thing, you know, meat you can possibly eat in the world. I think like oysters are number two and liver is number one in regards to nutritional value because everything's broken down throughout through the liver.

So it holds it's very dense in nutrition. and then I also heard that only the only like the alpha in the in the pack back in the day would get the liver and the organs and stuff like that because again that's where all the nutrition is so when you hear that type of stuff it's like well that's who I want to be so I'll eat it yeah I I like to consider myself an alpha male but I might turn into a beta if you're trying to get me to eat raw liver I'm not going to lie about that I might be like you know what you can you can lead the tribe Kyle go ahead you got the you can you can lead the right you're gonna eat the raw liver all back out from now and I'm fine with that so yeah well you don't got to worry about the competition so it's all good you can yeah man I saw that and I was just like oh I was just I was actually watched I made myself watch the entire video because I was like did he actually put down the whole piece of liver and the first

bite you took was like half it was like two thirds of the liver so I was like oh my god that was insane yeah yeah well uh well Kyle is always a pleasure to catch up my man you know i appreciate it uh cannot wait for this super match i was super excited to see this getting made and of course i wanted to get a chance to promote it before it happened you and jaden cox this is going to be a lot of fun i look forward to watching uh safe training the rest of the way i know training camp is probably getting ready to wrap up in this next week or so but uh you know keep you know keep training hard look forward to the match and uh best luck of course against jaden thank you appreciate it yeah ready to go march 16th man

on Rudis Plus. So thanks for having me on and it's going to be fun. Can't wait. Talk to you soon, all right? Yep. Thanks. A big thank you once again to both Kyle Snyder and Matt Brown for being on the show this week. Of course, check out Kyle Snyder's super match on Wednesday night. Rudis taken on Jayton Cox, best out of three. Cannot wait for that one. That should be a tremendous collision between two of the best wrestlers in the United States and for that matter across the world. Also, of course, Thank you to Matt Brown. Looking forward to being in Columbus, in my town of Columbus,

for his fight coming up against Brian Barbarina at USC Fight Night in Columbus on March 26. A big thank you to everyone that tunes in each and every week to the Fighter versus the Rider. Make sure you check us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher. And of course, you can always find the podcast and the rest of my work over on MMAfighting.com. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you next week. See you there. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.