MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Talks Alexander Volkanovski’s KO Loss, Uncertainty Surrounding Conor McGregor

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns as UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin react to the fallout from UFC 298. In the main event, Ilia Topuria became the new featherweight champion with a stunning second round knockout over Alexander Volkanovski. Brown will address the fight but also offer his opinion on Volkanovski returning to fight again just four months after he suffered a similar fate in his fight with Islam Makhachev. Did Volkanovski come back too soon? Brown discusses his past experiences following a knockout loss as well as dealing with a concussion and the differences between the two. We’ll also discuss the UFC 300 main event between Alex Pereira and Jamahal Hill — is this a letdown compared to the promises made by Dana White? Should we feel disappointed by this main event or is the card so stacked that the main event doesn’t really matter? Plus Brown confronts his long standing opinion that Conor McGregor will never fight again after White once again hinted at the Irish superstar not competing any time soon and stating that with his bank account, he doesn’t really need to fight anymore. Is it possible that McGregor really is done? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer!  Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine.

Available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. To the Fighter versus the writer, I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend, Matt Brown. And Matt, we are in a world now where Ilya Tuporia is the new featherweight champion of the world. Paul O'Costin lost to Robert Whitaker

Marab de Wilesh Vili is the number one contender Ian Gary won We got a UFC 300 main event Connor's still not back Lots of stuff going on Well Marab was really the number one contender Before too right

He just cemented it Stamped that shit I got to you know That's the first thing I've said about that Because boy what a fucking killer Huh Absolutely do When you pick up Henderson Huda

walk him across the cage and slam him down on the ground again, dude. You get my respect right there. Yeah, that's exactly it. And then, you know, Whitaker, you know, hey, when we talk about Whitaker, you got to give him all the props in the world, man. I think a lot of people were kind of questioning where he was at after losing DTP, DDP, DRICus de P, I don't even know how fuck you say his name, DDP. Yeah. I think there was a lot of questions about Whitaker, right? and he fucking went out and answered him the way only Robert Whitaker can do.

Great fight, great performance. I want to ask real quick, though, about the main event because Ilya Tuporia knocks out Alexander Volcanowski. Listen, hindsight's 2020, right? Like, we can't sit here and it's like no excuses. You take the fight, you accept the fight, it's on you. But I never really liked Volcanowski coming back so quickly from that knockout to Islam. And I, you know, he certainly didn't make excuses.

He said, hey, I got caught. Like, it's the sport. But there was that stat that came out over the weekend. I think it's 15 fighters from lightweight down. This doesn't count for Welterweight and above, but from lightweight down, any champion 35 or over who has fought has lost the title fights. So they're 0 and 15 now. And Volcanowski's the latest guy past 35.

34, 35, what are the cutoff is? They're 015 now. I think there was one that had won at Welterway, which is Tyron Woodley, over 35. How wild is that, though? How wild is that? Yeah, it's crazy when you look at these stats. But, you know, these stats could be deceiving, too, man. You know, I think that's a lot of times we put a little bit too much weight into those personally.

When, you know, a lot of times it's just there's always another bad motherfucker coming up out of woodwork, you know? That's just what all it comes down to. I mean, you know, I think Volka is a great fighter. I don't think he's really lost a ton of steps or anything. but Ilya Tuporia is just that fucking man. And I've read a lot about it on Twitter and stuff. And a lot of people were talking about, he's going to be a fucking superstar.

He is, dude. Absolute star. He says all the right things. He looks great. He fights like an animal. He's got all the makings of like a true superstar in the sport. But I want to ask you, Matt, because you're a fighter. You know, like, listen again, I'm not making excuses.

Ilya knocked out Alexander Volcanowski. clean. Like it was a nasty not folded and bad. But you know Matt, you've been there on both sides of it, been the knockout guy and been knocked out. You know how it goes. Like, I'm just, there's no right or wrong answer to this because some guys bounce back and it's like the knockout never happened. And then some guys bounce back and you say, man, you shouldn't have come back as quick as you did. Do you think that played any factor whatsoever, him getting knocked out for the first time really ever? He never been knocked out before by Islam in October and and turn around and fight again in February.

Like, it is a kind of a quick turnaround, especially when you're going through like, he didn't really have a training camp, you got knocked out, pretty clean, and then turns around right in and goes into this. Again, I'm just asking the question. I think it's very independent of each person, very specific to each person.

I don't think you can make a broad statement saying, you know, that is the problem, right? Because it's more mental than it is physical, in my opinion. I believe. I've had concussions before, and I've had, and I've been knocked out once, right? I guess technically when you get knocked out, that's concussion. But, you know, the concussion was way worse. But when I got knocked out, I came back and I was fine, right?

But when I got concussed in a fight, I didn't get knocked out, but I just got concussed. Like, I was having serious problems for weeks after, maybe months after. I don't exactly remember. but I mean there were serious problems like vertigo falling over slurred speech you know I would be speaking and then just stop and not know what I was talking about you know crazy things like that and I noticed that excuse me I remember noticing a huge difference in the gym but I got knocked out once and that was by cowboy motherfucker and I came back with no problem you know but mentally it was harder to come back from the knockout, right? So that's why I say, I don't know if you can necessarily make that broad statement because if he was mentally okay with it, then, you know, I don't think it probably caused a role or played a role.

But if it was a, it could have meant to, like that hurts, right? Like you got fucking knocked out in front of millions of people, right? You had all these expectations in your head, right? And then you get knocked out. I can play a mental role. in your training, I think, and maybe you're questioning yourself a little bit. Maybe you're a little bit safer, you know? Yeah.

So when you say maybe come back too soon, it's not even like a physical thing. It can just be a mental thing. Are you mentally ready to deal with that fight again after getting knocked out? And he'd never had it happen before. Like, he'd never been knocked out. And I don't even really remember if he'd been knocked down into UFC. And then to go from that to get head kicked knocked out in a, you know, in a huge fight against Islam Ocachev and then come back four months later,

again this may not be a physical thing like you said it may just be a mental thing where you're just not quite there because like that I want to I want to make sure like certainly I'm not a doctor but I want to be clear about this and you know this Matt like not all knockouts are the same like the brain is a weird is a weird muscle like it is not it is not a black and white issue with brain damage or knockouts and things like that like you always we've talked about the story I've always bring this up. T.J. Grant, remember T.J. Grant? Incredible lightweight fighter. Getting ready to fight for the title, gets a heel across the head and a jiu-jitsu practice, never fought again. I've seen other guys get concussed, come back, and become world beaters.

There's no right or wrong way to do it. Like, there's no, you can't just say I'll take six months off. Six months off is great, but that doesn't necessarily mean, like, that's not the answer. There's no, there's no perfect timeline. You know what I mean? Yeah, and even when you get concussed, there's no purpose. rehabilitation from that either. The recovery is very gray-ish. Like, it's all over the place. Like, I remember when I got concussed, I went to a doctor works for Ohio State.

Like, you know, it works with soccer players and, you know, a lot of Ohio State players. The protocol that he had me do was completely different than when I went out to Colorado and I worked with a brain specialist. I think he was either a neurosurgeon or neurologist, something, and he had opened a gym specifically to help concussed patients, right? And a little more than that, too, but it was an awesome gym. The protocol was completely different. So that's a huge gray area, too.

Like, we don't even know, not only do we not know the actual effects of it, a lot of times they can't even tell if you're actually concussed or if, you know, maybe your, you know, your brain is degenerated. There's all kinds of different things, you know, maybe you're tired that day, right? So you're not passing the test as much. Maybe, you know, there's so many different factors. And then so they don't even understand the actual diagnosis and then they don't necessarily

understand the recovery. Like it's all guesswork for the most part. You know, and I think the technology is coming a long way. And I think that or the research and the understanding is coming a long way. But, and I have a lot of knowledge about it. studied the shit out of it. Like I was concussed as a motherfucker. You know, I got to learn what the hell I need to do

here. But yeah, so that's such a gray area thing. But for me, again, I'll go back to it. Like, the mental part is what is the part that I think is probably going to be the most affected. You know, Volcanovsky's certainly a tough

guy and a strong will, strong-minded guy. But that doesn't mean that, you know, that's what we see. Right? That's, you know, him speaking to us in media, seeing his Instagram or social media and all this shit. We don't know what's really going on in a man's mind, right? So, you know, there could be a lot of question marks in his head. And, you know, there's just so much more to that.

And that's why I say, I don't think we can make a broad statement on that. Yeah. And you said, like, for you, when you go through a concussion for you, that was like, obviously you felt a physicality in that, right? Like you're dealing with, you know, vertigo and things like that. When you got better, when you got past it, I assume physically you just felt better, right? Just like any other ailment, like when you break an arm, like it takes time, you eventually get back full strength. But the mental hurdle of dealing with a knockout with the cowboy thing, you didn't get a concussion, but you said coming back from that was a mental hurdle you had to clear.

And there's no right or wrong way or timeline that that's going to happen on. Like you can feel like some guys, you just move on, but you said like that's something you had to deal with. And there's no like, oh, three months later you're fine. Or your next fight, you're perfectly fine. Like there's no perfect answer to that, right? Like mentally. 100%. And I'll say this too.

So when I got concussed, coming back from that wasn't that hard, right? I had to do the recovery. You know, it was hard dealing with the fact that I got concussed. And there's a strong possibility that I haven't been the same since. You know, like just because we believe that we're recovered, like there's a chance that there is underlying effects that are causing problems, potentially for the rest of your life, that you don't even know about.

You know, like your speech, I mean, you hear me saying like, oh, here, you know, sometimes, right, or stop it in the middle of sentences and kind of, you know, things like that. Or maybe your reactions are 0.1 second slower. You don't, you're not going to realize that. You know, I mean, you're not going to know it. but maybe if you know then you get knocked out again you're you know you're still you're not like well

my reactions are 10th of a second slower but you don't realize that right but now the difference was when I got concussed I was able to come back from that mentally easily but again when I got knocked out that was a mental hurdle to come back from you know because I'd never been knocked out before and Cowboys ass happened to fucking

knock me out in a really brutal, vicious manner. You know, like it doesn't, I see that highlight every now and then, right? And I'm like, God, I look fucking, it looks bad, bro. So that mental hurdle also, that's maybe a small little thing, you know, that's even a part of it. Like, like I do see that highlight every now. Like, it's not like it's going to go away. The UFC's going to use that or, you know, Cowboys probably going to use it. People are going to use it.

I'm going to see it for the rest of my life. so even though you get over that mental hurdle, you got to see it again. Right? Whereas again, when I got concussed, I mean, I just lost the fight, you know, and it was like, you know, it wasn't even a highlight. This is when I fought Johnny Hendricks, you know, and he got a take down on me, slam my head on the, on the mats. And, you know, I was seeing a double for the rest of the fight. And, you know, it was like kind of wobbly and stuff. And, you know, it was like, okay, well, you outrestled me.

Cool. You know, I'll figure that out and get back. And that's the That's the wild thing. Like if you would, I think I'm positive you told me the story about Johnny Hendricks before, but like that fight you would never imagine you got a concussion. Like when you watched that fight,

he was just wrestling for three rounds. But like the Cowboy, if you said Cowboy gave a concussion, oh, I get it. You got the knockout. But that's the, again, that goes back to the question of brain health. There's no easy answer. Like you actually got knocked out in the Cowboy fight, but you didn't get a concussion.

Johnny Hendricks wrestled you for 15 minutes, but because the weird way you got taken down your head hit the ground, you actually got a concussion. Again, that's kind of like the thing with Vulcanowski. And when I say, and when I say come back too soon, our immediate response is physically, did he come back too soon?

But you're talking about the mental side. Was he mentally there? You can tell yourself you are. But when you get that fight, you get into fire again, you know, are you reacting the same? Are you flinching?

Are you looking at the, you know, because I know sometimes... A realistically, a concussion can affect your physical again, you don't even know it, right? Like your brain might fire 100th of a second slower. When you're fighting Italy to pour you, that's all it takes. Yeah, it's wild.

It's so wild to think about that. So, yeah, I don't know. Like, again, Alexander Volcanowski's an incredible fighter, and I'm quite sure he's going to recover from this. But you've been there, Matt. And again, I know I'm not sitting there saying, like, you're above Alexander Volcanowski, he's been a champion, all these things.

But, like, as a guy has been around, And I consider you a very, like, I don't think you get nearly enough credit for how smart you are when you approach things in the sport. You study this shit. You know it very well. Could you offer Volcanowski advice? Like, I know it's different for every fighter, but like the mentality of it, right? Like, maybe you don't even realize it. Like, maybe in the moment he's like, I'm good to go.

I'm ready. And then you step in there and that just like you get that one moment of hesitation. Like, oh, shit, I'm about to get hit. And then that one moment of hesitation is when you get knocked out again. Like, what did it take? Like, when did you finally? get past the Cowboys. Did it take one fight, three months?

Like, do you remember, like, what it took for you to find that kind of get back in that right headspace? Yeah, I could tell you my personal way that I got over it. And that was when my, the way that I looked at fighting was a little bit different. And then I started kind of going towards just a little bit before, but that really set in stone where I stopped looking at each performance as sort of the end of the world, right? Like, each performance, like, that's all the fucking matters.

and the way that I look at it myself now is I'm a martial artist for life and I'm going to be on the mats until the day that I die. This is what I do. The fight itself is a test of my martial art on that day, right? If I would have fought Cowboy, I'll tell you story about that specific event. I don't remember what it was. I was going through some shit mentally and I was having a rough time getting into that fight. And I remember backstage, I actually got the Uber app,

and I actually called an Uber to come pick me up. And I was going to leave because I want to go back to the hotel and eat a fucking pizza and drink a beer and chill. And I had the Uber ordered. And then I don't know, 30 seconds later or a minute later, whatever, I started warm up. I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Like, it's a good fight, you know?

But I was just, you know, at that point, I was just like, dude, I just don't fucking care, you know, like, I don't need to do this shit. And, you know, fighting is a scary thing. I'm sure there's a lot of stories of people do it. I mean, I've been to, you know, low-level fights where guys literally walk out from backstage, you know, like, you know, they call the opponent out and or they'll call one fighter out and he comes out, and then they call the next fighter out and he's nowhere to be found. I mean, I've literally seen this, you know, so, you know, it's the mental battle.

So I started looking at it afterwards, you know, look, if I fought him, 10 minutes before that, an hour before that, the day before, whatever, maybe I would have knocked him out, you know what I mean? So all that the fight is is a picture in time, whereas I'm a martial artist for life. And this is just a picture in time where my martial art was on that day. Sort of like what Bruce Lee talked about, right? Failure or there's no defeat until you accept defeat, right? It's just a moment in time, right?

And it's what happened at that moment. And, you know, let's get through it. and, you know, get back on the mats and continue my martial arts progression, you know, again, until the day that I die. So that's my personal way. To give advice to someone else, you know, I think you kind of need to know their own personal journey and the way their mind works and, you know, what makes them tick? Like, you know, why are they doing this to start with, right? What is what's their motivation? What's their goal? And, you know, for some people, that goal is money, right like Floyd Mayweather his goal was money and he did it right you know for

for Connor you know it's probably money right there's others like I think like a Jim Miller for instance you know I think he's like a martial artist you know and this is you know he's not in there specifically for money right so the point is there's a lot of different personalities and you got to understand um who they are what makes them tick and things like that yeah it's interesting and and again we just don't know right like some guys get caught and have a bad night and they never quite come back the same and then you look at a guy like Max Holloway

who got dominated by Volcanovsky in a third fight like he got beat down for five rounds and everyone's like well this is the moment like Max has finally lost the step and then he comes out there and beats you know then he comes out there beats Arnold Allen he beats the Korean zombie

and now he's fighting just engaged you and it's almost like it's almost like we've never even remembered that happened because he's just that dude like he just ran into a buzz saw named Alexander Volcanowski. It really had nothing to do with Max as much as Volcanowski was just a beast. But we are very quick to judge, and I get it. And again, I'm with you.

I don't think stats tell the story drives me insane. And this is me as a football fan. It drives me insane when they say, this team hasn't beaten this team for at home in like 10 years. But it's not the same team. Like what happened with that team 10 years ago? It's not the same quarterback, not the same coach. Like, it's not the same team. Like, what does that matter?

So the stats don't matter as much, but I will say, like, we know this is a sport where, you know, father time. They always say father time is undefeated. That's true to a certain extent. Like, there is an expiration date, right? Like, you can't fight forever. Like, when Chuck Liddell was in his prime, that dude was a fucking savage killer, the Chuck Lidl that fought Tito Ortiz a couple years ago. I never want to see that again. Like, that was not the Chuck Lidel we all know and love.

So, you know, is this the time for Vulcan House? where he's just not going to be the same guy coming back? I don't know. I don't really have a problem with him getting a rematch. He was a long-time defending champion. If you're going to give it to somebody, I'm not a big fan of immediate rematches, especially when you get knocked out,

but I really wouldn't have a problem with it right now. I just hope if they do it, Volk takes the time to make sure he's ready. Whether that's physically or mentally. I don't care which way your point. Like if he says I need time physically or I just need time to reassess mentally, take the time you need. Don't rush back just because you want revenge

or just because you want to get back at Elia Tabori. As long as he's in the right space mentally and physically, I have no problem with him getting an immediate rematch, but don't rush back in there just because that's what's being offered to you. Right. And we talk about this sometimes about who we're giving credit to.

And it's like, okay, are we going to sit here and say that Volcanowski's over the hill and maybe, you know, reactions are a little slower? He's not doing what he used to, whatever. are we going to give credit or credit to do and say, look, Tuporia just went out there and showed. He showed up and he performed. Yeah.

And that's where it's hard to say, you know what I mean? Like would Volcanowski beat him on his best day? Maybe not. But that's why we love his sport. And that's why betting on this sport is the hardest sport you can imagine to bet on. He's in football stats, you know, they can pull out set that you can kind of start putting some pieces together. right like this dude he runs for over 100 yards a game and this guy passed you know the stats in this sport don't mean shit you know because yeah and that's why one of the reasons i don't like betting on it's

it's like it's like dude i don't know what his training camp was like i don't know if his wife cheated on the week before he you know i don't know if you know he was being like john jones and going on a coke binge the weekend before he fights you know and if it's john jones just bet on him anyway, but someone else, you don't know what's going on. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think this was I Toporia. I think this was one, because, you know, Volcanozky won the first round. He was doing well the second round, and Volcanowski just, or excuse me, Toporia just got it, man.

He got it where he wanted him and against the cage, unloaded and knocked him out. I just think it till it, I think I think I think I'moria Teporia, is a bad motherfucker is what I think it was. You know what I mean? And again, but like I said, we don't know.

Like, we'll see if Volcanovsky gets the rematch. Can he adjust? Can he get better? Can he fix it again? I never thought Volcanovsky would beat Holloway. I thought Holloway was going to be the champion for the next five years. And then Volcanowski comes along and beats him. This could just be, you know, he could be,

Ilya could be Volkanovsky's, you know, Volcanowski to Holloway. Like, he could just be the guy who has his number. That's the sport. You just never know. You're absolutely right. Like, stat, yeah. When I say some stats don't matter, like in football, you're right. But you can break down, like, this team sucks against the pass.

You can probably start predicting, like, they're going to get lit up on the pass. That's not MMA. Like, you just, that night, that moment, that walk out, that backstage food, whatever it is. A million different things can play into why you have that one snapshot in time where you just don't see the punch coming or you don't see the kick coming. And it's not your night. So, yeah. That's why it's so impressive when you see guys like Anderson Silva, that won, what, 11th, 12 title defenses.

I mean, that's just fucking amazing, bro. Like, that means he showed up every time, you know. I mean, you know, you could talk about the level of competition, but, you know, that means he showed up every time and performed well, you know, guys like Demetrius Johnson, and especially when we're wearing these four-ounce gloves. And you got, you know, guys like Anderson, right, who's mainly striking with people with four ounce gloves.

Like, it's not boxing, you know? It's like there's so many factors to go into it, which brings me to something I don't think we ever really talk about on this show much, but, dude, you know who fucking impressed me over the weekend was Jonathan Haggertie. Oh, yeah. Moy-Tai was over in one championship, but God damn, this guy, holy shit.

I mean, you know, he showed that he's got a lot of dog in him, too. I don't know. Did you watch this fight? Yeah, he got knocked down, knocked down the first round and then comes back and wins it. I've interviewed Jonathan before, incredible fighter, incredible performer. And I've always been so impressed by the guys who go over in Muay Thai, who are not Thai. Because, I mean, that's a Thai sport. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, that is like you grow up in Thailand. You are literally born into this shit. and to see him go over and do what he's done, and he didn't, you know, his dad was teaching it when he was a kid. You know, he grew up in fucking England of all places. Super impressive. Yeah, he got knocked down early, comes back and fucking wins that fight. Super impressive.

I used to be a lot more impressed with that same sort of thing. But I have a lot of friends that live in Thailand. I've never been there. I'm supposed to go there later this year, hopefully. Hopefully in April, actually. I've never actually been there, but I got lots of people over there. one of my friends was telling me about how they train in Thailand, right? There's this mythical thing about how they train so hard.

Like they live in the camp. They run, you know, three kilometers every morning, et cetera, et cetera, right? There's this big mythological thing. And kind of what he was telling me was like, like, you know, there are guys that do that. There's guys that push themselves and, you know, they want to really do something. They love the sport and all this. And now he's like, 99% of them, though, like they just, you know, they just, you know, they just, don't want to be in the fucking rice field.

Like you're in a third world country. You know, like a third world, third world country. You know, like, like these guys are living like we can't even imagine. And he's like, they go on these three kilometer runs in the morning, you know, five in the morning. He said, nine out of ten of those guys are cutting through the jungle and smoking cigarettes. And then taking the shortcut around and then coming back. And then they're doing what they got to do to get through.

the fucking day. Yeah. So then when you take someone that grew up in that sport, you know, in any country, but they truly love the sport and have a, you know, real knack for it and everything. Now it's not so

surprising when I think of it that way that they go over to, you know, the country of the sport and beat the guys. Yeah. Yeah, John DeNaggart is a bad dude, man. He's so impressive. And yeah, seeing what he's done his last couple of fights in particular, just like, damn. Like, that dude is like super

for good. I wanted to ask you, getting back on 298, we mentioned Whitaker got a big win. Ian Gary got a big win. I know we both talked about him, but Marab de Walsh, really took out Henry Sehudo. Looks like he's going to finally get his title shot.

I wanted to ask you, Matt. We heard about this today. Ray Longo was talking about this on the Anakin Florian podcast. He said, before the fight, Marab is in the backstage in the warm-up room, doing three, five-minute rounds with Al Jermaine Sterling. And he's like, they're basically fucking fighting.

Like they're not, you know, this isn't like just like a warm up. Like let's, you know, go over under on arms and things like that and hitting some pads. He's like, they're basically doing a three-round fight in the back to get ready. And then, you know, Marab goes out there and fights into Sihudo. And Marab confirmed it. He's like, yeah, he's like, that's what we did. Like, we went. Like, now I'm quite sure they weren't like full on trying to knock each other out.

That would be really, really stupid to do that right before a major fight. But I'm curious, what's the, like, what's, what is your. warm-up routine, Matt? Like, have you ever gotten to a full-on fucking fight before a fight? So it's funny. I've seen guys do that a lot, actually. Especially, dude, I don't know how many times I've been punched in the face. I've probably done it to my coaches, too.

Because when you're warmed up, getting warmed up in the back, like, that's when you're the most nervous, you know, your nerves are up. And it's like, okay, well, let's just flow to warm up. And, you know, the guy getting ready to fight, he's not fucking flowing. Like, he's ready to fucking murder someone, you know, you're trying to. trying to flow. He's trying to kill. I see this all the time, actually. Now, to do three, five-minute rounds, that's a little bit excessive. But I've seen a lot of excessive warm-ups, too. You know, I don't know what Al Jermaine was doing on that. I'm guessing he was kind of letting him have

success on things, too. You know, I don't know how their sparring sessions are or anything. Maybe, you know, Rob just has success anyway or vice versa. I don't know. But, you know, the point is, this isn't as uncommon as you would think other than the like three five minute round part. I mean, that's to me, that's a long warm up. My routine, I don't warm up like that at all. I used to, I used to warm up. And I see this still all the time, especially with amateurs and rookies or lower level guys. Like they're warming up an hour before.

Sometimes hour and a half. Sometimes I've seen, you know, two, three hours before. And, you know, they're starting to, you know, break sweats. stuff. For me, I'm pretty chilled. I've always kind of been that way. I mean, I used to warm up a little bit longer, but I'm pretty chilled the whole time. Like, dude, I'm going to warm up like when I walk into a cage and there's a dude across from me that wants to kill me. Like, that's going to warm me up pretty good, you know. And sometimes you got to take a punch or two, but I think after or, you know, throw some punches, you know, get some exchanges going and stuff.

But like you, what you kind of start to realize, I think after you fought long enough is like your body knows what to do when it gets out there. Like you don't need to do anything in the back significant. You know, like everything. And that's part of, again, my personal way of looking as a, like, by time I'm in the locker rooms, I'm so accepting of the way that this is going to go that I'm just chill now. I'm like, dude, this is it.

Like, you know, what's going to happen is going to happen? And then I'm going to go eat some pizza and fuck my girl and drinks whiskey and. You know, like, like, it's all, you know, sun's going to come up tomorrow, bro. Yeah. So, but you said, like, you're not used to seeing, like, three, five-minute rounds, but the intense, like, full-on, almost sparring session, that's actually more common than what we probably realize. I've seen it more often than I think we would think than people would think.

And, again, usually it's not the person helping them warm up. It's doing it. It's the person getting ready to fight. And then they start going a little harder. and usually the guy helping him warm up's like he's just protecting himself he's like i'm fucking throwing back you know yeah or you to shot a little bit harder or something you know because i'm not just gonna stand here and get my fucking ass kicked yeah i mean good for good for marab like the dude seems like he could go for 20 rounds i guess he wants to prove it by taking on aljimate in the

back and it being intersino out front uh maybe that's what it takes like everyone's got their own routine i guess like i said i've been i've been backstage a few you know not like a bunch but enough times to see like some guys some guys just sit there and just kind of get warmed up other guys like to hit pads i've seen some guys just go to grappling and wrestling sessions um it's kind of like we're talking about the concussion thing like there's no right or wrong answers what you need and maybe that's just what he needs to get ready i just like everyone's like holy shit that's wild and you probably as you said you probably don't see it for three rounds like actual three five time you know timed five minute rounds but maybe that's just what they wanted to do yeah it is very different than me you

know I've had many people remark after fights, different coaches, managers have been backstage with me. And they're like, bro, you're so chilled. Like, I didn't even know you're about to go fight. It's like, again, I'm just accepting of it. You know, it's like, dude, this is what we do. Like, we do this every day. Do you hit pads or do you just kind of like get ready and go?

Yeah. So I'll always do. So what a lot of guys want to do is like really warm up. And here's what happens is I've done like hard. warmups before because I would prefer to have a little sweat when I walk out there. But when you get called, you know, everybody stops warming up and you get called. You still got another 10 or 15 minutes before you're actually fighting, right? You're standing in the, and the, what do you call it, the walkway, and then you're standing in the tunnel, and then you walk out, and then you get in the

grease, and then, you know, if you're the first one out, now you've got to wait for him to come out for the second one out it goes a little faster but then you're waiting for the announcements and you know whether sometimes there's like a stare down type thing or whatever and then you're finally fighting like this is a huge process you lose your sweat by then anyway so I'm like why should I even break a sweat so my idea or my goal is to get my nervous system fired up right I don't want my nervous system to be too low because I've also went in I've made the mistake of going in too low, right? And, you know, not having my nervous system fired up at all, right? Being maybe a little bit over-accepting where I, where I'm in there like, like, yeah, whatever happens happens,

you know, which is, you know, probably just fighting too often or something, you know, just being too accepting, right? And so there is certainly a balance there. And I think everybody's got to find that balance for themselves. Marab obviously has the energy and the insanity and the mindset to be able to do it that way. And if that's what works for him, I think that's fucking great, man. You know what I mean? He's obviously got the cardio. Like, the dude's a fucking cardio machine. So if it works for him, it works for him. Yeah. Yeah, again, there's no one size fits all. What works for him, works for him, but may not work for Matt Brown. You know what I mean? Like, that's not what you need.

And yeah, you're right. Like, you think about it. Like, say warming up, it's like you warm up and you just run out to the cage. Like, you're warming up and then you're standing and waiting and waiting and waiting. and then you get to the cage, you're waiting and waiting. So, like, by the time Bruce Buffer announced your name, you've probably been waiting 15 minutes, you're probably cooled down anyways from like the physicality side of it. Like, you're not pouring sweat at that point. Yeah, and I've seen also guys leave it all in the locker room.

Like, they blow it out hard as fucking. Then they're tired by time they get out there. They're exhausted. You know, obviously, you know, when the punches start getting thrown and shit, I mean, you know, your body comes back up and your adrenaline comes back. But you don't want to leave. it back there, man. Like, for me, I want to save all the energy for when I get out there.

Like, I want my nervous system to be at its peak and my energy properly focused. But I want the energy to be used against my opponent. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting when I heard that. I was like, I mean, again, you know, different strokes for different folks. What works for Marab, works for Marab. It may not work for Matt Brown or Ian Gary or anybody else. Like I said, everyone's got their own process of what they do. But people are like, that's wild. It is kind of wild. You know, three rounds.

Like, that's probably not typical. Like, you know, going on full on sparring maybe more, but you typically don't see someone like, okay, let's time out five-minute rounds and go in a full 15-minute fight. Like, that's a little wild. I've definitely seen guys do five-minute rounds. But usually what happens is if they kind of start fighting, so to speak, or going really hard.

Like, they're like, okay, calm down, like hit pads. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, it's great together every day, you know? So they know what each. they're about to do. They know the reactions and everything. So it's probably a little bit different for them too. Yeah. Well, Marab's getting his title shot hopefully. I mean,

nothing's guaranteed. I'd love to sit here and say, man, he's going to definitely get the winner of O'Malley and Cheeto. But Matt, you and I know the sport works. It's all about timing and opportunity. And I hope he got. I hope he does. I really hope he does. But there's no guarantees. We just all heard the story, you know, today. And last week talking about, you know, they were trying to find a UFC 300 main event. Leon Edwards was offered a bunch of different fights. None of them Belal Muhammad. Like there were all kinds of different fights

who were potentially going to match him up with. Islam Akachah was thrown out there. That name got thrown out there. Hamzat Shamaa got thrown out there. All these names, none of them were Bilal because they were trying to make a big marquee, splashy fight to headline the card. So listen, man, like I 100% hope

Marab's going to get the title shot, but who knows? Maybe O'Malley beats Cheeto and then who knows? Maybe Volcanovsky's like, I'm going to cut the Bantamway. And I want to fight O'Malley or some shit. Who knows? Well, you know, with that said, we all love the law, man. We all know he deserves a title shot.

But we also know, as much as we love him, all due respect to this guy, the fans would be pissed as fuck if he was the main event of UFC 300. You know, no disrespect, Mr. Muhammad. But that's just the way the world is right now. buddy. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great

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or visit comex ontario.ca. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Well, I don't know that the reaction

for what got announced was a whole lot better because Alex Pereira against Jamal Hill, which I like that fight. We said this last week, people are building this up too much in their freaking minds. It's like calm down. Like the card's great. Like I understand we all want it.

Like I said this to someone on Twitter, it's like, unless they announce George St. Pierre against Khabibnuramauga Meta, people are going to be pissed and let down by this main event. Because it got built up too much. I think you said it last week. Like if they would have announced the main event and then the rest of the card, people would have been like, oh, well, the main event's not great. But boom, we got, you know, we got Gatheed Holloway. We got this and that and that and everyone would be excited. They made the mistake of announcing everything and then just that one main event. And so by that point, you built it up too much.

You're like, oh, my God, we have this incredible, insane Cody Garbrandt and Devis and Vigureator are the very first spot on the prelims. That's insane. What's this main event going to be? Is it going to be Brock Lesnar against the fucking ghost of Bruce Lee? Like, what the fuck's going on? And then, you know, you get Pereira Hill and it's like, it's a good fight, but it's not what everyone had built up in their heads.

Exactly. And I think that's the whole problem with it, in my opinion, is it, yeah, it's a great fight. We all know it's a great fight. but it's not really a greater fight than the other fights on the card. Yeah. The other fight are all great fights. Like, it's on equal footing.

They could all be main events, but, like, you know, we were expecting UFC 300 to be the main event. Yeah. They just, like, and I mean absolutely no disrespect to Jamal Hill and Alex Breyer, because, again, I really like the fight. But they kind of got it by, they got it by default. Like, they did because they had no, like, they tried everything to get, some other kind of like, quote unquote, super fight put together or some big marquee main event,

whether it included Adasanya or DDP or Hamzot, you know, names. When that didn't come together, like, what's the best thing we got out there? Well, Alex Praer is a pretty good size name. Jamal Hill's a former champion. He's coming back from an Achilles tear. Let's throw them in there and let's do it. Because they were, I know for an absolutely guaranteed fact, they were planning on putting that fight on the Brazil card in May. A few weeks later, they're just like, let's just do it this way.

We got a big title fight in the main event. Because they tried John Jones. They went every which way trying to get a fight. We know this was not the first choice. But again, I don't mind it. It's a good fight. And, dude, the card is insane. Like, I'm so excited to see Kayla Harris in the UFC.

I'm excited to see what Al Jamein's going to look like as a featherweight. Armand Sarukin and Charles Olivares going to be fucking bonkers. Gachie and Holloway. Like, dude, like, okay, the main event's not, you know, the greatest fight in the history of the sport. but I'm fine with the way this whole thing played out. Like I never had it in my head where it had to be this like immeasurable main event. It could be never, we'd never be seen again. I was at UFC 200.

I sat in the night when John Jones was in tears when he got pulled from the fight with Daniel Cormier because he tested positive for something. And then they moved Brock Lesnar in the main event. And then that pissed everyone all because it was over a title fight. And so they moved Misha Tate against Amanda. Mish Tate to Mandunas was the main event of UFC. 200 people forget that like that's not that wasn't like the bar key fight it's because john jose test positive and no one wanted brock lesnar coming back in a three round fight against mark hunt to be the

main event so it ended up being misha and and uh amanda like this is this card is better this is a better card than uc 200 yeah well the fact is there everybody's going to watch it like there's no one that's not going to watch it now because you know it's alice prayer and jamal hill but how many five round fights are on this card now. Three, three, five round fights. You got Pereira, you got Pereira, Hall, or Hill, you got Zhang Wei Li and Yanjian Nan, and you got Holloway Gagchi. They're all five rounds. And it's a six-fight main card, too. So it's going to be a fucking long night.

Dude, fucking Holloway Gagy, we have a hard time seeing that go on five rounds. That's for sure, right? Yeah. A women's fight. You kind of never really know what you're going to get there. Zang usually shows up and bang, so that could be a great one. Jamal Hill, Alex Pereira, we're not getting five rounds out of it. And we get two rounds, I'd be shocked. And we always say that and end up getting five rounds.

You know, like we've been surprised many times. That's my biggest fear at this card, right? You know as well as I do. When we look at these cards, we're like, dude, That's the fucking card. Look at this fight. And I'd say 80% of time it doesn't turn out that way. 20% of time we get what we want.

And then we look at the other cards. We're like, dude, this is shit. Like, we don't even need to talk about this. And that's where the bangers come in. So, you know, this is, you know, they got some good ones on this card. But I find it hard to feel like it's going to live up to expectations that we have. Yeah, I think it, I think cards like this,

this is so stacked. Like the six-fight main card, I think as long as we get like two or three bangers out of that, I think, you know, I'm happy. Like, I just, there's no way. And I know that I'm really jinxed myself saying this. There's no way Holloway Gachy's not going to be awesome. Like, I don't know if it's going to go a knockout or a decision, but there's no, those two guys do not understand the definition of a boring fight.

Like, it's just not going to happen. Now, that may end up, there's a possibility that's the only exciting one, maybe, but that's one that you're just like there is no way that's not going to be fun now can i tell you for sure that aljama sterling is going to the aljama sterling is going to look amazing and featherweight i don't know like i can't predict that and calvin caters the tough matchup i don't really know suruki and olivera should be a fucking banger that should be a fucking awesome fight but again you just don't know for sure like you can't say with 100% accuracy so yeah anything can have like i i said i don't think prayer hill's going past second round i didn't think prayer and tashara would go past

stick around. Jamal Hill was beating the piss out of Glover Tashara. But Toshera kept sticking around, stick around made all five rounds. If you were to ask me after like round two of that fight, if it's going all five, would have said you're out of your fucking mind. Jamal Hill's beating the hell out of Glover to Chera. Old man Glover stuck around, didn't go away until it was all over. His brain health may not thank him for that fight, but he's stuck around.

So yeah, you just don't know. Well, when you get these fights like Gagie Holloway, we're like, dude, no fucking way. this isn't the banger of the night, right? This is five of the night, five of the year, et cetera, so that's when some guy gets a fucking eye poke or a nushop or, you know, tear the NACL out of nowhere. And you're just like, God damn it, this goddamn sport. Yeah, but I mean, all in all, though, like, this card is ridiculous.

Like, it's a great card, you know, it's like, I just, again, yeah, I mean, people are going to complain no matter what. Like I said, unless they announce Khabi versus George St. Pierre, and even then, I guarantee you someone has said, oh, one guy's coming out of retirement, the other guy's been fought for four years. People would bitch about that. People are going to bitch no matter what. Like, there's always going to be somebody out there complaining. Like, look at UFC 299.

That card's absolutely stacked. Like, you get Curtis Blades and Jelton Almeid on the freaking prelims. That card's amazing. But there's going to be somebody who will moan and bitch that O'Malley is fighting Cheeto or that Justin Porre is fighting Benoit St.Dney. Someone's always going to complain. Well, what everybody wants? for UFC 300. We already know it.

Everybody wanted Connor McGregor and Michael Chandler. If he wasn't that, like there was going to be complaining. And you know what's funny about that is, is like, Connor is such a superstar and such a name

that we forget he's coming off two losses in a row, a broken leg, and he's like one in four in his last five fights, and he's 35. Like, I don't know what to expect.

And let's just go ahead and get into it because Dana, boy, I tell you what, Matt Brown. Listen, I'm not going to say I always agree with you We have to disagree That's kind of the part of the podcast You can't always agree on everything

But you said I don't think Connor's ever fighting again And I never agree with you on that I was like, oh, he'll fight again He'll he's gonna fight again And then he said, I'm coming back June 29th And we all thought UFC 300 That didn't happen

I'm coming back June 29 Then Dana's like no that's not happening Now Dana's like Probably the fall I hope the fall And then Saturday night Like someone's like Is there a chance?

he never fights again and Dana wouldn't say yes or no he just said when you get that kind of money you don't have to fight I'm just in the mind and you put up a hilarious message on Facebook which I absolutely cracked up about because a year ago you got a knockout

and he tweeted Matt Brown tied the record for the all time knockouts of 13 I got eight knockouts I'm going to break that record and you you put on Facebook how's that going for you bro a year later he still hasn't fought Matt are you just like the prognosticator of prognosticators because you seem to know more to anybody else that

Connovirate or may never fight again. Boy, is it looking like you're about right on this one? I mean, it's pretty obvious, right? I don't think it's a, you know, some mystical fucking, you know, not the domic shit, bro. The dude's got hundreds of millions in the bank. Like, would you fight if you had hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank? I mean, you know like I said that wasn't I mean he did a lot of great things he was an amazing fighter um you know first to get double he's not getting back to a belt a title ever the only the only reason he would have to come back with his ego he doesn't need the money it'd be only ego he's not going to get a belt again and he knows that like he's not a dumb person you know he talks a lot of

shit and stuff. He's not a dumb person. He's a very, very intelligent person. He knows he's not coming back to get a belt ever again. So what's the point and come back of fighting? What is the point? Let me ask you a flip side. We're talking about him and he's not fighting. Yeah. Let me ask you a flip side of this, Matt, because an argument that we made, as far as money goes, is now people say, well, LeBron James is worth more money than Connor, and he still plays basketball. But basketball's not fighting. Different animal when you're putting a ball on a hoop versus getting punched for a living.

But let's talk about Floyd Mayweather. Floyd Mayweather has all the money in the world. He kept fighting and he gets punched in head for a living, and that's a dangerous sport very much like M. What do you think separated Connor from Floyd Mayweather or Mayweather? Now, I'm not talking about Floyd Mayweather now who's doing exhibition matches where he takes no risk. Like, do we know he's not going to lose to some fucking random dude in Japan and John Gotti the third? That's not a risk.

I'm talking about like, even at the tail in his crew, he's fighting, you know, Marcus Medona or whatever. What do you think separates him from Connor to where he, I mean, he could have walked away and still had hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank, but he kept fighting. Yeah, well, Marcus Medina beat him the first time, too. Yeah. But I think there's only one gigantic difference, right? Floyd is the promoter. Yeah. Like he makes, so if you think, just in terms of net worth, say they're both worth 500 mil,

Connor and Floyd, which I don't know what their actual net worth is, but, you know, just 500 mil. Connor's going to come back and fight for what, 10, 15, 20 mil. Floyd can come back and fight. He's making 100 mil. And on top of that, Connor's come back, he comes back. He's fighting for UFC. He's fighting young, hungry, fucking lion.

Like, Chandler's a fucking lion. Floyd comes back. I don't want to put down Floyd, but he's never been a risk taker.

He fought, I do think he's a great fighter. I think he's one of the greatest. He's not the greatest. Don't even get me fucking start on that

bullshit. He's not even close to the greatest. He's maybe like top 10. But anyway, he never took gigantic risks in his

career. When you fight in the UFC, every fight a risk, especially like Conner's level. Like he can't come back and fight like a, you know, a Marcus Medina level guy. You know what I mean?

He can't come back and fight Arturo Gidey level guy and make that kind of money, right? Floyd can come back and fight just about anybody and make good money, like Andre Berto, you know. Yeah. Like that's not a huge risk for Floyd Mayweather. Now fighting Pachial was risky. You know, so he came back and, you know, he showed. that he is that great of a fighter.

But even just coming back in boxing versus coming back and fighting in the UFC are two completely different risks. Like there's always a huge risk. So I think, you know, so it's a combination of all those factors. And Floyd is also a very, very special boxer, too. And I think he lives that lifestyle, whereas I don't think Connor lives the lifestyle necessarily. I think he did for a long time. But at this point, he's not living the lifestyle.

Like Floyd's never been a drinker. He runs all the time. I know people in Vegas that live around him and know, you know, don't know him personally, but know him well. Like, he's always working out. He's always in the gym. He's always running. That's just his life, you know. Whereas Connor, we see what he's doing.

Like, you don't see Floyd out on the yachts. You're getting blow jobs. You're getting blow jobs. Yeah. Like he's the type thing He'd go to his strip club that he owns Get a blow job and then run home You know

I just it's uh yeah like the money Like everyone says the money like people still Go in money but again I counter that with what I say Which is you know well yeah but again LeBron isn't getting punched in the head for a living He isn't risking his leg getting broken And even and I would even argue Floyd Like I brought him to Floyd argument

I would argue like even when he I'm certainly not trying to diminish him. Let me be clear about this. Not trying to diminish him. But when he fought Pachial even, that wasn't the same Pachial as when Pachial was on that run. Like he fought him after he got knocked out.

Yeah, he was at the tail end. Again, not saying it's not impressive. It absolutely is. But like he was fighting a little different Pachial than that Pachial was on that streak that looked like he was a fucking world beater. And then he went out on Berto, which that was minimal risk

for Floyd Mayweather and Connor which was no risk at all and getting paid $100 million. So Floyd was smart and Floyd, listen, Floyd gets a lot of shit for whatever it is, 50 cent likes to make fun of him for not be able to read, whatever the case you're going to do. Floyd is a smart

businessman. He knew better. And now that he's doing these exhibitions, he's fighting Logan Paul in a fight that doesn't matter. Not going to go on his record. Doesn't mean shit. But he's getting paid $100 million and doing huge numbers on paper you because he's smart.

He's not risking it now. He's not coming back at 45 and fighting Canello or fighting fucking Terrence Crawford at this age. Like he knows better. So, yeah. And, yeah, and like, Conner's got a lot of money and a lot of fame and a lot of silly. He said it's all ego.

And I didn't buy it. I was, I still believed. I was the man saying, no, he's going to fight. Now I'm starting to like lean towards the Matt Brown way to thinking. Like when Dana says,

well, maybe the fall. and like, wasn't this like, didn't he do the ultimate fighters really a year and a half ago? Like, what are we waiting on here? Now, the biggest difference, I think, again, is like, you know, Mayweather's the promoter and he picks the fight. Connor comes back to UFC.

I'm sure he has a decent, you know, amount of pull and, you know, who he can pick and everything. But, like, it's the UFC. Like, there's no good picks. You know what I mean? Like, if you're a name in the UFC, like, you're a fucking savage. In boxing, like, no one, really knew who Andre Berto was.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And he can come back to make a hundred mill and fight him. He's the promoter. He picks the fight. He promotes the fight. He promotes himself. And,

excuse me, you know, he picks the fight, promotes the fight, and makes a hundred mil, you know, selling drinks and tickets and everything. And makes a hundred mil for,

you know, like you said, an easier fight. Yeah. You know, for four. Connor doesn't have that luxury. Now, if he goes and does his own promotion,

which I'm sure he's contractually not able to do, but if he goes and does his own promotion, like he might make 100 mil, right? Find some guy like a, you know, maybe a Logan Paul, right? Or, you know, or something like that, you know, find some guy that's washed up that he knows he's going to beat or whatever. And maybe he can make 100 mil too. And, you know, if he was contractually able to do that

or had a desire to do that, you know, maybe that there's probably a chance that that could happen. But, you know, that's, it's just so different, you know. And, like, comparing him with LeBron, like, doesn't make sense, you know, like, like basketball's a fun sport. You know, like, like fighting isn't fun. I mean, I enjoy it. I love it. I'm passionate about it.

But what I love about it is that it's not fun, you know, like I'm a glutton for punishment. Like, I like going in and getting beat up and beating up others, you know. in basketball, like, you're just having fun, bro. Yeah. Yeah, it's, um, and, and you're right about the competition because like, the, like, the only guy that Connor could come back against that's still a name that's not the same guy as he once was is like Tony Ferguson, but people would see through that so quickly.

Tony's off seven straight losses. Like, no one's going to buy into that. Like, you can't be Connor is not, Connor can't come back and fight some contender series guy. He may lose the fight because a contender series guy may be young, hungry, and just ready to just make a name for himself. But you're not going to get him in there against some no-name prospect at this level of his career. And I'm not saying he can't beat Michael Chandler. I don't know that he can't. Michael Chandler, you know, allowed, like he gets, he puts himself into trouble.

We talked about this year and a half ago, whatever it was when he fought Justin Gates. And we said, like, does he want to be a champion? Does he want to be Arturo Gotti? Like, does he want to go out there and be on a show or does he want to just win fights? I think Connor could win that fight, but is it a risky fight? Fuck, yeah, it's a risky fight. Look what Michael Chandler does. Like, there's risk in that fight.

Michael Chandler can knock his head in the third fucking row. So, yeah, I don't know, man. Like I said, I did not agree with you. I was like, no, he's going to fight. He's going to be back. It's going to be 300. Oh, it's going to be International Fight Week. Now that Dana's, like, I don't know.

And him hauling around with people are like, is he ever going to fight again? Dana's like, listen, when you have that kind of money. and I'm like, well, shit, maybe you were right. Like, maybe Connor really is never fighting again. Again, I'd ask the question. Like, would you fight if you had 500 bill in the bank? Completely different, go out there in boxing or completely different going out and playing basketball.

You know, like, going to the UFC fight is a fucking brutal ordeal. It's a fucking brutal sport, bro. And it is not forgiving one bit. Yeah, and that's, you know, credit to the UFC. also for building that brand. You know, they are the Super Bowl of MMA. You know, I know they have Apex cards and stuff that don't always get our dicks hard and everything.

But look, the fact is, you know, when you're at Conner's level, you're not coming back and fighting a tune-up fight. Like, you're coming back and fighting a fucking killer in Michael Chandler. Yeah. It's also funny, we said, like, in terms of, like, the, like,

coming back from the injury as well. the broken leg. I talked to Chris Wybin a couple weeks ago because he had a similar ish injury. Like his was worse. He had a compound fracture. But I asked him because he, I talked about coming back into Brad DeVarro's fight and he's like, I was ready. I was ready to go. And I want, and he's like, and as soon as I got in there, I couldn't pull the trigger and throwing a kick. It got in my head.

Talk about the mentality, right? Like, it got in my head. And we were talking about the Connor thing. I was like, because, you know, they said during his E60 special they did on MSPN, they said this is the hardest injury to come back from and I talked to you about that I said is this the one injury you just never come back the same from because Anderson wasn't quite the same guy and again Anderson and Wyden were a little older and I mean Connor is now too Connor's 35 he's not fucking 28 doing this but um and and I think what I'm getting to the point now is it's not the physicality coming back from injury like that it's the mentality like Chris Wybin told me like I was ready to go I was perfectly fine I was healthy I felt great got in there and couldn't pull the trigger, couldn't throw a kick. It fucking freaked me out because I got worried about my leg. Connor's coming back from a very similar injury. His fucking leg snapped and running around like a rubber band on there.

Like, is he mentally ready to go back in there and do that to himself again? Like, we talk about the physicality of it. Like, are you ready to go back in there and take the risk that your first kick you throw it fucking snaps again? Like, there's little things we're not talking about here. Like, everyone's like, oh, he's got, you can never have enough money. Yeah, but is the money worth the risk? Is it worth coming back and getting fucking highlighted by Michael Chandler?

Is it worth coming back and snapping your leg again and being out? Maybe that really does in your career. Like there's a lot of things to go into this. So, again, I disagree with you vehemently up until this past weekend. And when Dana said that shit, I'm like, holy shit. Matt Brown was right. I don't know if Connor's ever going to fight again. And I'm not blaming.

I'm not like calling him out saying, man, Connor, you're this. No, dude, he's got all the money in the world. You're absolutely right. Like, why would you? I got a favor to ask you So we got to take this little clip here And this will be the social media post But I want you to screen record

You going back and re-saying what you just said The Matt Brown was right part You were right No you were right you were right You were absolutely because listen I might not still be right I mean, he can prove us all wrong. Look, I mean, the biggest issue I see is, okay, like Chris Wyman's a dog,

and I think he's the type, he's in the gym all the time, right? That's what it's going to take to build that confidence back, right? Chris Wyatman is that guy. He's, you know, a wrestler. I know his old wrestling coach, Tom Ryan, right? He coached him at Hofstra, you know, said nothing but great things about how tough he is, how strong willed he is, how strong-minded he is. He told me he was going to be a champion when Chris Wyven first got in the UFC, right?

So we know the lifestyle he lives. And that's how to be able to get over that mindset of, you know, being scared to pull the trigger, that's what it's going to take. Now, we see the lifestyle that Connor is living, us presumptuously, right? We think we know what he's doing. He might just be posting on social media, him doing weird parties, stuff, but actually training in the gym all day. I assume that he's being truthful and his social media personally.

That's not going to help his confidence coming back. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Like versus Chris Wyman being, you know, a dog in the gym every day, you know, and he's coming back having those mental issues, whereas, you know, Connor living the lifestyle he's living. This is not going to help his mentality if he were to actually come back.

Yeah. It's interesting because, like I said, everyone's got different reasons for fighting. I never fault someone for fighting for money. It is prize fighting. I never fault someone for just wanting to become a champion. Everyone's got their own reason. But at this point, as you said, I don't really know what Connor's fighting for. And I think you're right.

I think it's ego at this point. Like, it's just the ego of not wanting to let it go, right? Like he doesn't want to go out that way. He doesn't want the last memory of him being him on the cage floor with his leg in a splint and Joe Rogan sitting down beside him being like, what happened? I'm sure that's not the way he wants to be remembered in his career. Because at his best, Connor McGregor was absolutely one of the best guys in this sport.

He was a fucking savage. He was one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world. But that was 2016. That was eight years ago. Like, it's hard to remember. When he beat Eddie Alvarez, he fucking just absolutely decimated Eddie Alvarez. That was eight years ago.

Eight years. That's a long time. I just, again, I don't know. I'm not going to say 100% certainty. Like, he'll never fight again. I can't say that. But I'm definitely leaning more towards your reasoning now when you said it like a year ago. Like, I don't think Carter's ever going to fight again.

Even back then, like, come on, Matt. Like, there's no way. We're still here a year after they started filming the Ultimate Fighter and he still isn't. Not only is he not back. We have no idea when he's coming back. It's not like he's been booked and like dropped out of fights. We've been booked. And the date changed.

He's not even been booked. Like, we can all speculate. he can announce June 29th. It was never official. Like they never said it was done. You said that. So I don't know, man. Like, I'm just at the point now.

I'm like, I don't know. And to boot, we don't have USADA anymore. I don't, I don't know if the UFC anti-doping thing keeps tally of who's getting tested how often. But I know we had that with USADA. And I don't know if he ever got tested under USADA. But at least we had that to say, okay, he's in the pool, right? There is a chance. I don't know if they even have that now.

They do. There is testing. I see there ain't the results. He's got tested twice this year. So he's been tested, at least based on what they're showing us. Here's my last question. We'll get out of here on this. I got to ask you this question. Because tonight, Michael Chandler, while we were recording, Michael Chandler went on Monday Night Raw on WWE and called out Connor. What that's worth, I don't know.

I understand. I've backed Michael Chandler every step of the way. I get why you wait because that Connor payday is real. You're not going to make, you're not going to, you're not going to fight Arm and Saruki, and no offense, Arm and Saruki. You're not going to make Sarukian money versus Connor money. I understand it. And Chandler's in a financial position now after Gaichi and Porier and all these other fights

where he can afford to sit and wait. But now Chandler's coming up on November, only two years since he fought. At what point does he have to move on? Because he can't, I mean, he's literally, I mean, Chandler's at the tail end of his screen. 37 I think 36 37 like he's not 28 doing this I mean there's got to be a point where you just got to say I got to move on now I understand right now you wait because you're still hoping that they're going to book a date in September October whatever but at what point is Michael Chandler do you finally just say I got to move on I got to do something else yeah I'm surprised he hasn't already personally yeah there's great bites out there for him there's a lot of fucking yeah You know, I'm kind of surprised that he hasn't, to be honest. But I never thought about Michael Chandler in WW. He would actually be a really great fit over there, wouldn't he?

He would, except he's a little too little for what they do in WW. They're much, like, WWE likes big guys. Like, they need you to be like six foot, six two. Like, they're not really attuned to, like, the smaller guys. And Chandler's like 5'8, so I don't know if he would really fit in, like, the bigger. Like, he would, I remember, like, watching, like, when you see fighters stand next to the WWE guys, like, Triple H standing next to Connor, like, Connor looks like a, you know, freaking, you know, highest, like a middle schooler next to those guys.

Because that's just, they're just all muscled up six foot three guys. So, but yeah, no. But I mean, listen, I get it, man. Like, I get why he wants this fight. And it sucks for Michael Chandler. He's the guy I hurt for the most of this whole thing. You got promised Connor. You did a season of the ultimate fighter.

We all thought they were going to fight in like August the last year. And here we sit all these months later, basically year after they filmed the show, and it's still no closer to be in a done deal. and now you're getting Dana saying, I don't know, he's rich, you may not want to fight, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I feel for Michael Chandler, but at some point, man, like, I don't think you should move on quite yet because if they're really hoping that this fall actually happens,

I guess you stick around. But at some point, man, you got to move on. Like, you know, it's like the band that open for Nirvana. Like, at some point, you've got to move on and open your own show. Like, you can't just stick around and be the band that open for Nirvana. Like, you've got to be the, you got to move on. Yeah, like I said, I'm surprised he has not ready. I think he loves the fight.

and I love watching them fights. So, man, there's a lot of great matchups out there for them. Let's see it, bro. Let's go. Well, let's also be honest, Matt, like, Chandler's got to know Connor's a winnable fight. It's a big-ass payday, and it's a winnable fight. Like, it's all the right pieces for a great moment. Like, he can go out there and highlight real Connor McGregor and make $10 million.

Like, that's why you wait. I get it. But at some point, you know, bills start piling up. You better start thinking about, you know, fucking Ola Levera or Matush Gamrod or somebody else out there because you're not going to wait for Connor forever. Yeah, I think he, I know he's got a couple businesses over in Nashville. I think he's probably doing pretty well for himself. So, yeah, I think he'll be fine.

But, yeah, I mean, if he wants to fight, like, Connor ain't the guy, I don't think. Yeah, well, we'll see. But we got a lot more to talk about UFC 299 coming up in a couple weeks. Sean Amelagita Vera, Dostepore, Benoit, St. Denis this weekend. we got the UFC Mexico City card and the PFL versus Bellator cards. There's some fun stuff happening there. Matt Brown, where can people check you out if they want to support you and what you got going on? At I Am the Immortal on social media, Twitter and Instagram, at the Immortal Coffee, no crash coffee.

Let's go. As always, we appreciate everyone the tunes into the show. Make sure to check us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. We'll be back next week with another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Podcast Network.