MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Talks Francis Ngannou’s Chances for Success in Boxing and If Conor McGregor Losing to Michael Chandler Could Spell the End of His Career

Episode Date: February 7, 2023

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin talk about Fedor Emelianenko’s retirement, Francis Ngannou’s chances to beat a high-level boxer and what happens if Conor McGregor loses to Michael Chandler. Brown, who is a noted boxing enthusiast, offers his thoughts on Ngannou transitioning to the sport after leaving the UFC while he’s been teasing a potential showdown with heavyweight champion Tyson Fury. Could Ngannou pull off the upset of the century and beat Fury? Brown isn’t so sure about that but what about Ngannou giving Deontay Wilder or Anthony Joshua a tougher night at the office? Brown will also give his initial breakdown to the fight that was just booked between Conor McGregor and Michael Chandler, which will happen after they coach against each other on the new season of The Ultimate Fighter. While McGregor remains the biggest star in the sport, could a loss to Chandler potentially spell the end of his fighting career? All this plus we break down the main and co-main events happening at UFC 284 this weekend on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. Matt, what's going on? How are you? Very good. How are you doing, Damon? I am fantastic. We are coming off a weekend.

of Bellator and UFC fights and then rolling right into a huge UFC event this weekend of course from Australia, the champ versus champ fight, Islam Makachev taking on Alexander Volcanowski so no shortage of things to talk about in the MMA world. Yeah, I guess

I'm a little bit sad from the weekend right. I think every MMA fan is a little bit disappointed. Fador just didn't show any signs of hope in that fight. I was like God, man, just watching it. It just hurt the whole time And I mean, can't take anything away from Bader, right? He's such a monster.

But God, I was like, Fado. Like, can we just send these guys off, like, with easier fights, man? It's funny because when we had the discussion over the last UFC 2, UFC 283 car, we both kind of said, like, Shogun's retirement was sad. To share it, even though he lost, wasn't because it was a battle. And he stuck in there and just battled it out with, with Jamal Hill. The Fador one's weird because, like, part of me was sad because he just didn't, he just didn't look good and he got handled again. And Bader is legitimately a really good fighter.

On the other side, he did go out against the champion. So he did, you know, there's no shame in losing to Ryan Bader. But, yeah, man, I mean, 46. I mean, this is the fight he wanted. He called for this fight, but, you know, I don't know. Like, it's just, like, part of me wishes, like, he, I don't know. There's just so few storybook endings in the sport, Matt. Like, it's just so rare that we actually, like, couldn't celebrate a guy going out on top.

I get what you're saying. At least it, you know, at least it happened against the champion, right? Like, you know, it was a guy we know very well. You said, Shogun, when he fought a couple weeks ago, his last fight. I don't even remember the guy's name. I know who the guy was, but I've seen him fight a couple of times. But the Ukrainian guy. Ehor, Ehor, Poteria.

There you go. Yeah, you know, and that, I guess that is a little worse. I didn't really think of it that way. I was just like, you just want to see him go out with the win, man. And unfortunately, like you said, it's just a rare thing, man, especially when you're 46 years old. How old's Bader? He's got easy up at his late 30s, I'm sure.

38. I think he's 38, yeah, 38 and 39, yeah. Yeah, you say he's still, you know, I wouldn't even say he's past his prime. like Bader might be in his prime. For heavyweight, I mean, heavyweeds don't typically, I mean, Francis Ngano is like 36, you know, Steepace 40. I mean, heavyweighs typically are heavyweight is like the weird division where you can be, have a lot of longevity beyond, you know,

what is typically seen as like prime athletic career years. You know what I mean? Like heavyweight has always been an older division. That makes sense. Yeah. And then also with Derek Lewis just getting dominated. I mean, I love Derek Lewis. I'm glad he didn't get a knockout because I still want to catch his record,

which, by the way, I should be catching it this year. I do have verbal confirmation on my next fight. I just don't have, you know, the rights to announce it just yet, I guess. But I do have verbal confirmation, so that announcement should be coming. I would suppose next week. Okay. We're going to break it on the show here, I hope. Absolutely.

I mean, you know how we do the show on Monday. hopefully I won't put I'll try to keep it off Instagram until Monday so we'll break it here officially but I certainly won't go on any other show and break it that's for sure yeah yeah that's gonna be exciting with you coming back and

and doing the Fight Camp radio show which will be fun, Fight Camp podcast will be fun yeah trying to catch Derek Lewis man I get this knockout, we'll be tired again again I love Derek Lewis who doesn't love Derek Lewis right he's got to be one of the just nicest, like coolest guys, one of the best follows on Instagram in the UFC.

And they suck to see him go out like that. But I'm glad he didn't get a knockout. Was it, is it tied for all-time lead knockouts in UFC history? Is that what it is? Yeah. So he's number one. And I think I'm tied for number two with, I want to say it's me and Vitor Belfour. And Vitor, Vitor is not coming back to the EOC.

so you win there you definitely knock him out of contention so yeah it was it's uh yeah it's just like i said then going back to phaedore thing like it's um it's a bummer but also it seems like he's going to stick to his guns i really believe he's done this time i don't know it's a weird like i'm both i don't know i'm sad but i'm also kind of like this is just the sport man like no one has a fairy tale ending it's so rare that you get a kabib or a gsp where they go out on top or even just go out on a win. And it was crazy because when you look at all the guys that got in the cage with him, all the legends, the, you know, Randy Couture, our good friend Mark Coleman, you know, Dan Henderson on down the line, like, Chuck Liddell, like you look at everybody who was in there

and if you actually like thought about it, like almost all of them into their career on a loss. And that's just the reality of this sport. Like that's just the brutal reality of the sport. legends every single one of them huge legends but no one hardly ever that's just the sport man so it's almost like i've kind of i've just kind of reconciled with that like that's just how things are going to end most of the time and the reality is ghp did it's the best man because he would like he dominated the welts way division for a very long time set some records did some great things went up to middleweight and you know won the title again um i like it better than like kind of the way Khabib did, where Khabib still has a lot of prime years left.

Like, he could come back right now and still be, I think, in his prime, right? I mean, he would have to get back in shape and lose some weight and everything. But, like, he left during his prime. I think GSP recognized that he was beginning to exit his prime. So he just did it perfectly, in my opinion. But, man, that photo with all the legends in there, I was just talking with Mark Coleman a minute ago, he came to the gym.

He was actually took my class and was doing a little workout, breaking a sweat and learning some striking. And man, it was so much fun, but he was just telling me all about the weekend. And it would be great, actually, if we could get him on here. Maybe I'll hit him up this week, see if we can get him on here next week, and he can tell us about that whole experience.

Because, you know, has there ever been that many legends in one spot before? I mean, in real legends, not, you know, pioneering legends, not fucking, you know, a bunch of great fighters at a UFC summit or something like all the real old school legends the guys that built this sport man what a beautiful thing that was yeah that was amazing i mean seeing you know frank shamrock in there frank shamrock's the guy who doesn't get nearly enough credit for what he did a guy who should be in the ufc hall of fame uh you know seeing hoist gracie hensoh gracie uh you know seeing uh you know of course dan henderson i mean it was great it was really really cool like i said the only thing

the only thing that would have the only guy like it would have been cool just because it was Fador. It would have been cool if they could have got like Crow Cop and Nogar in there just because those are like two of his most legendary opponents. But that's like a minor. That's almost like it would have just been cool to have them there. But that was such an awesome assembly. And it was really cool to Belator did that because, and I'm going to ask you to step on a landmine here, Matt, because after the fight, you know, somebody on the Saturday night, they asked Dana about it. And Dana was talking about, you know, I never believe Fador is one of the greatest of all time. And I'm like, dude, listen, we all know Dana's going to be Dana, and I get it.

But can you ever just be gracious in defeat? Like, you didn't sign the guy. He didn't want to sign with you. Okay, it is what it is. We all know Fador is one of the greatest of all time. You and I talked last week and said, listen, we both rate Steepay number one, but I'm not, I'm 100% believe Fador is one of the greatest. And if he's not the number one heavyweight, he's at worst number two.

And I'm just like, dude, like give the guy's flowers. Like, I understand there's always like this bitter rivalry And you never got to sign Fador And maybe there's a little bit of just like, you know Just, you know, just underlying cynicism to it. But like, dude, come on, Dana. Like give the guy's flowers. The guy's one of the greatest heavyweights of all time at worst.

Don't sit there. And on the day he retires, don't this. I never thought he was one of the greatest. That's it. Come on. Now, you might hammer me for this one. But I'm going to argue a little bit with Dana. He has an argument there.

I don't agree with it. I put Fador down as one of the greatest. I mean, but Dana has an argument. I don't think, I don't, I don't know. He's obviously going to be biased, right?

Like he had his run-ins with Fador, didn't work it out, didn't come fight, didn't get to sign him in the UFC. He obviously wanted to. But I think Dana does have an argument there, you know. Fadour's best wins is Nogar and Kroko. Right? He doesn't.

he fought tons of cans. He wasn't, you know, I mean, it was 10 years, but again, there were so many cans. There's just, you know, there is a small argument there. I don't know if Dana's just saying it for media or, you know, if there's some sort of internal bias or whatever, but there is an argument. I'm just not sure if the argument is what Dana is actually, you know, appealing to there. Well, I know, here's my, here's the, my biggest problem with it, is beyond, I agree,

no, Gera and Crow Cop are his two best wins, but he also has wins over Andrei Arlowski, has wins over Tim Sylvia, two former UFC heavyweight champions, you know, obviously has a, you know, a couple wins over our guy, Mike Coleman. I mean, to me, when you say, I never thought he was one of the greatest in the world, and to me, it's not only insulting Fado, but it's also kind of insulting the guys he beat, because what do you say? about your own champions. He beat a lot of UFC champions in his career and legitimately dominated many

of them, knocked out many of them. Like, to me it diminishes your own, like, it's okay that you don't have to sit there and say he's the greatest. We had this discussion last week, you and I kind of came to a consensus that we put Steepay number one. I'm not changing my vote right now. I still have Steepa number one, but again, like, it just

I don't know. To me it sounds like sour grapes. You know what I mean? Like, just give the guys' flowers. Like, they ask him the question. How do you feel about it? All you have to say, is, you know what, we tried to sign him. It didn't work out. But, you know, he is, he's obviously still one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. Wish him the best on his future.

You know, like, that's all you have to, like, take the high road a little bit. Like, you don't have to sit there and praise the, and again, I'm not saying he has to tell the world Freedo is the greatest because you and I both said we don't have Faydor as the greatest, but at least give the guy a little bit of credit because he was at least at least at worst, he was one of the greatest heavy weights. Like, that's the, and that to me is indisputable. And that's what he's like, I never consider him one of the greatest. Like, come on, Dana.

Everybody, everybody considers him one of the greatest, maybe not the greatest. But to me, it's just like, dude, take the high road. To me, it just sounded like sour grapes. Yeah, I guess I took it as him saying, I don't consider him the greatest. But I guess that's not what he said, right? He said he's not one of the greatest. Yeah. Yeah, you're 100% right there.

Fedor is undisputably one of the great. You cannot argue. There's no argument against that. You're correct there. Yeah, but it is, but like I said, you know, no one, no one in this sport ever seems to go out on top. And like I said, I was kind of sad with Fador, but at the same time, I was kind of like, you know what, he wanted this. This is the fight he wanted. He wanted to go out against Bader.

He wanted a chance to get a rematch. Didn't work out for him. Bader is now the first and only guy who will ever hold two wins over Fador. No one ever beat Fadour twice in his career. So Bader has that to add onto his resume. Yeah, like I said, it's kind of a bum. but I don't know. Again, I know we keep going back to this, Matt, but I didn't feel as sad about Fador as I did about Shogun. Like, Shogun lost to a no-butt. No, I'm sorry, Ehor Potaria. No one knows who you are. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to insult the guy, but no one knows him. Like if they brought back Machita. He'll always be a nobody, but right now. Yeah, yeah. Like Machita, Machita, Machita offered a comeback. Like, Leona Machina said, sign me and let me come back and have a retirement fight with Shogun. That would have been awesome. You know, like, I think. I think. I think that's what makes Shoguns doubly sad is because not only did he lose and not look good,

but he lost to nobody, whereas at least Fador can say, hey, I went out against the heavyweight champion of Bellator. You know what I mean? Glover to Cher. I lost to the new light heavyweight champion, and I put on a hell of a slugfest and I stuck around to the final bell. Those are things you can say, even in defeat, you can say I went out on top in a way, right? You know, at least Fader can say that.

I went out against the best heavyweight Bellator could throw at me. And you know what? There's no shame in losing to a champion. in your final fight, at least in my opinion. Is there any chance Francis goes to Bellator? I mean... Pretty small, right? Pretty small chance. I think it's pretty small for a couple of reasons.

One, I don't know how much interest he would have and if he's going to do MMA and doing a fight with Bader. I mean, I'll be honest, I think Bader outside the UFC, Bader is probably one of the best heavyweights available because no offense to the guys of the PFL. I mean, anti-Dilesia and some of the guys

of the PFL, I mean, again, a lot of guys you never heard of or don't really know their names. One championship, I mean, they have a couple of guys over there that are pretty good, but again, guys,

you don't really know their names. Bader's probably the biggest heavyweight name that's available, but I think Francis is looking at it. I think it, I thought maybe a possibility was that Bellator would probably be open to some sort of non-exclusive contract, right?

And he comes in, he fights Bader. Now Bader has a chance to show that he's the best heavyweight in the world. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think, I mean, again, for Francis, right now, it's all going to come down to, you know, his boxing match. I mean, I think that's what he's aiming for. I think that's what he wants. And I said it many times, like, cash in, dude, like, get your money.

Go fight Tyson Fury. Go fight Deonté Wilder. If they're going to pay you a boatload of money to fight Anthony Joshua, even though I think that's the third option, like what I would consider the third best option, take that money, whatever, go do your thing, and then come back to MMA, fight Bader, fight whoever.

But I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. I think Francis is smart enough to kind of bite his time. He just put out a tweet, you know, kind of teasing the Fury fight because Fury has been talking about it. Yeah, I mean, I don't, plus, I mean... He hasn't booked the Lusick fight yet, and Joshua just signed to fight.

I forget who it is. He's not a huge name, but he's doing sort of a comeback fight type thing. So that only leaves Deonté Wilder, who's wide open right now. Yeah, I mean, also the other thing with Bellator is they don't have pay-per-view. So Francis going to Bellator would mean that, like, he couldn't cash it on pay-per-view bonuses. Whereas at least the PFL with the whole Jake Paul thing, like if Jake Paul and Francis fought on the same card and get pay-per-view and you get 50-50 split, in the pay-review, like, that's a pretty enticing, like, you know, even if they're trying to do a pay-per-view, right?

I mean, they could, but I don't think they're going to. Bellator's never really had that model, and I just don't think they're. They've done it before. I mean, they did it for the one card in New York when they had Chandler and Brent Primus and all that stuff, but I just, I don't think so. I don't, I think it would be, I think at this stage it would be a bigger risk than reward with that. But, again, whatever, go do your thing, man.

Like I said, I'm rude for- Francis fighting Bader, that's his pay-per-view material all of the only. It is. It is. And listen, if I'm, if I'm Bader and I know Bader, Bader isn't this guy, like, I know Ryan Bader well enough to know he's not that dude. But like, dude, call for it. Like, even if you don't get it, call for it.

Like, you know what I mean? Because there's no bigger fight. He wants fresh blood. He's beating every other heavyweight really in Bellator right now. Go call for Francis. I mean, will it happen? Probably not right away. But why not?

Call for it, dude. Like, you're the bet. You're using people talking about it. Yeah, get people buzzing, get people interested. Like I said, right now there's not a whole lot of buzz about it because no one's talking about it. Talk about it. Right. Go ahead and get it.

Yeah, I would love to see it personally, man. I think it'd be a pretty good matchup, if I'm being honest. I would take Francis. But, yeah. Look, you know, Bader's got that wrestling. Bader's got wrestling. The way he looked against Bader or last weekend, once he got him down, he had an amazing ground and pound. He has real.

good wrestling. He's really strong. Again, he looks, he fights a lot like Steepay. He's not as good as Stepe on the feet in terms of his boxing and everything, but like in terms of his power and his wrestling, like, he could potentially take Francis down and drown him in like that third and fourth

round where Francis starts gassing him. I mean, it's possible. I wouldn't count him out. I would, like you, I would pick Francis, but I don't think it's a blow. I think outside the UFC, every fight that Francis would have an MMA right now would be a blowout in terms of like my estimation like i don't think anyone comes close i think bader's the one guy who

could potentially you know give him a bit of a run and and i think that if you're looking for challenges that may be the only heavyweight challenge outside the ufc right now in terms of interest and a guy who could actually push you uh because who else is there i mean really i mean there's not there's not anyone that anyone's going to be like oh yeah man that guy could really get francis a fight no it's come on ale like we all know about yeah yeah as usual there's no names at least that that we we would assume we're going to give him a push. There's always those guys going to come in up that we haven't heard of, right? Yeah.

But they're not going to get the Francis fight. But Bader poses some serious problems for it. But, you know, the question is, is Francis looking for a challenge or is he looking for money? Dude, like I said, listen, I don't know there's some of special rules and four-ounce gloves and all the stuff. Because they do all that. Maybe Francis has a chance against Tyson Fury, but if it's a straight-up boxing match, it's Floyd and Connor. all over again. Tyson boxes circles around Francis Inganu. But get your paycheck.

Like go get your $30 million. I will 100% root for you to go out and get that $30 million. Go get. That's why, like on Twitter, I had this Twitter discussion the other day because Eddie Hearn went on and said, like, the fight to make is Anthony Joshua and Francis and Gano is huge. And I'm like, all right, listen, Anthony Joshua is two and three in his last five. And his star power is all built in the United Kingdom.

He's never been an international star And he's never really been a pay-per-view draw Because they don't really do pay-per-view the same In England It's like a $20 pay-per-view over here People are paying $80 to $100. The fight to make would obviously number one would be Tyson Fury and number two would be Deonté Wilder

But as I told everybody, I was like listen, as much as I'm sitting here saying that Anthony Joshua isn't the best guy in the world And maybe he didn't develop into the heavyweight Maybe we all thought he would When he first came out and you know Come out of the Olympics and everything Um, he's still like top five boxer.

I love Francis and Ganoo. Francis and Gano has huge power and, and the dude can hit you and put you out. But at some point, we got to show a little bit of respect to the heavyweight boxers, right? Like they're like, well, maybe he has a better chance against Joshua. No, he probably doesn't have a great chance against any of those three, but at least go out there and get the biggest payday you can get. So at least if you lose, you can fall asleep on your pile of money. Yeah, well, I don't, you know, I've never seen a box. I don't know what kind of chance he's.

stands against these guys. I don't think you can automatically discount that just because he's been in May for so long that he can't box that well. The biggest thing, because he's never boxed, and just like when Connor went over, I said the same thing. The rules are different. The pace is different. The timing is different. You know, when you look at a 12-round match, three-minute rounds versus three, five-minute rounds, your entire mentality has to change. So without having any real experience in that, I think that's one of the biggest battles to overcome. And I thought Floyd did a great job of exploiting that out of Connor, right? Like he didn't go in and just mollywop Connor within, you know, a few rounds.

He took his time, found his distance, played some different games, different ways. He played the boxing game. And Connor was inexperienced in the boxing game. You know, a guy like Floyd has, you know, three, four, I don't know, well over 200, boxing matches. You know, obviously he knows the game pretty well. Yeah, but realistically, listen, we all understand Punchers' Chance and Francis has, you know, maybe to the most incredible, all-inspiring power we've ever seen. And you will not find a bigger Francis and Gano fan to me. I love that dude.

Nicest guy in the world. Incredible story. Someone in Hollywood needs to option that for a movie, like tomorrow to make a movie about that dude's life, everything you went through. But I made the mistake going into Connor Floyd trying to talk myself. into Connor doing well in that fight. Because I was like, come on now, Connor. Connor's got pretty good boxing. Let's be real. I don't know what kind of a boxer Francis is,

but I know what kind of a boxer Tyson Fury is. Be honest, man. When you're talking about Tyson-Pyri, I'm with you on that. He doesn't stand a chance for his Tyson-Pyrie, even if he was an experienced really good boxer. Because Tyson-Pyrieu is that good of a fucking boxer. With Wilder and Joshua,

I give him a chance, again, without seeing his boxing, I don't know how much of a chance. Now, saying you learn your lessons from Connor and Floyd, you got to remember how good Floyd is, too. Oh, yeah, absolutely. If you put Connor in there with a lot of these, you know, if you put them in with the Turogadi or, you know, some of these other guys around Floyd's weight, you know,

even Canelo Alvarez, like I'd give him a better chance against Canello, you know. But Floyd is a special fighter without question. You know, if you put Connor against Shane Mosley, a lot of these guys that are really, really great fighters, I give Connor a way better chance. Floyd is not only that great of a boxer, but he's a terrible, terrible matchup, not only for Connor,

but for anybody that has been, you know, that is an offensive fighter, and especially someone that doesn't have experienced boxing. Yeah, but when you say a better chance, I want to make sure we kind of categorize that, Matt, because people are going to listen and say, Matt, wow, you think, listen, Deonté Wilder and Francis deGano, I mean, that fight would be fun until one of them falls over because those dudes both hit like a truck and it's just basically who gets hit first. Like, that's it. Now, technically speaking, Deontay Wilder doesn't get nearly enough credit for being a good boxer because he's not really shown that, but he's still a good boxer. He's not a terrible boxer who just happens at one punch knockout power because there's been lots of guys in boxing at one punch knockout power and could not land a knockout because they just get their faces boxed off by better opposition. So when you say better chance, I want to make sure we kind of quantify that because out of 100 with Tyson Fury, Francis has like a one and a hundred shot. Like could he land the shot? Could he land a big punch?

Sure. But if I'm betting money, if you're saying put all your money, I'm putting it all on Tyson. Fury. There's no Tyson Fury's best of the world. The only guy who maybe has a chance to beat him right now is Alexander Usick and even that one I pick Tyson Fury to win. Anthony Joshua and Deontay Wilder, I give

Francis more of a chance to win maybe five out of 100 or 10 out of 100, but the odds are still so when you say better I want to quantify that Matt when you say better chance. You're not saying like I'm picking Francis. You're just saying he has a better chance against those two guys

than he ever would against Tyson Fury. No, that's a great point. And I give him more than like a 10 or 20% chance out of 100, too. I mean, I think when, you know, especially Joshua, like I think he may potentially pose a bad matchup for Joshua. Only because like Joshua does not handle power well, right? He doesn't handle getting hit really hard very well. And we all know that Francis hits very, very hard. Deonti Wilder has balls and has experience in the.

same game that Francis plays, the power punching game. So with that, again, it all comes down to me to the boxing experience. I mean, if Francis could just go in and just get like, it would never happen, but, you know, get like 10 or 15, you know, cans, you know, just to learn how to box it, how to play the game. It should be a different game, man. Like, I go to boxing jams that I have for many years. It is a completely different game.

The distances are different. Even if you just forget about wrestling and clinching and all that. Just taking out the kicks. Like the game changes ginormously. Just taking out the kicks. So with that experience, that's where the, and never seeing Francis fight, that fucks up the whole equation. We're not ever seen in boxed.

So, so, yeah, I'm with you. I would never give them over like a 50% chance against any of these guys, but I think it's higher against Joshua, a little lower against Deontay, and Slimton on against Tyson. Yeah, I think that's fair. And I agree. There's a reason why I've been calling for Deontay Wilder and Anthony Joshua for the longest time

because I think Wilder knocks Joshua into the middle of next month, because you're right, Joshua's never handled power that well. And that's coming from me as a guy who's like a boxing novice. Like, I just watch boxing. I don't analyze it. I don't break it down like you do. You know far more about boxing than I do. But I know enough from watching Anthony Joshua that if Deonté Wilder hits him, he ain't

going to like it, one bit. But again, like I said, I'm just paying enough respect. Because, again, because I would say the same thing going the other direction. If Anthony Joshua or Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury came to M.MA, they would lose to probably the app, you know, one of the, I mean, again, yes, they have, they have. have knockout power. Deonté Wilder probably being the biggest in terms of having a chance to just tag someone and knock them out. But realistically, like, are they beating anyone in the top 15 in the heavyweight division of the UFC? No, you're not. That's just reality. You're just

not trained for that. And there's so many ways you can lose in MMA as we talked about, you know, we've talked about in past weeks with guys like Jake Paul and other guys who want to do MMA. Credit to them for one to try it. And again, this isn't an insult to Francis in Ghana. Like I said, I think Francis is incredible. If Tyson Fury fought Francis and MMA, Francis, oh my God, the fight would be over in 15 seconds. You know, I just don't see that going well for any boxer. But again, I got to pay, but I got to give credit where credit is due to the boxing community

to say that as much as I like Francis in Gondu and as much as his one-punch knockout power can change things, he would be an astronomical underdog against any of those three guys, in my opinion. Yeah, most likely. And, yeah, again, it all comes down to just, the entirety, the holistic of the game just changes so much.

Like if you put a boxer in M.MA, that's why, you know, they want to come in M.A. thinking they know how to fight. They don't know how to fight. They know how to box. That's one aspect of fighting. Guys in M.A. They know how to fight. They don't know how to box. Right?

Yeah. You know, these guys think that they can just cross over to an entirely new game when they don't have experience in that game. And gym experience is not the same as, you know, fighting experience. So the pace changes,

the rules change, obviously. Even just the cage versus a ring is a gigantic difference. So there's just so many differences that you just, they're always, anytime someone switches into another sport, particularly in combat sports, they're going to be at a huge disadvantage going against someone that's experienced in that other sport.

Yeah, I think that's why, like, the tweet that Francis put out today, because Tyson had talked about this recently, he said, let's do it with four ounce gloves, let's do it in a cage, let's do it, you know, striking only, whatever. Like, when you start taking away advantages that Tyson would have, then the fight changes. And I think that's probably why Tyson Fury is saying, let's do it with four ounce gloves, let's do it in a cage, that kind of stuff. because I think realistically people know in a boxing match, Francis just doesn't have any real. I mean, he has a puncher's chance as every, as every puncher would, especially with his kind of power. But when you start taking away the advantages that Fury would have, like the gloves, like the ring, things like that, then, yeah, then you start giving, then you start giving Francis a chance. But if it's just straight up boxing, again, it would take a miracle.

It would take that miracle shot to land. but when you take away all that, and again, I credit Tyson Fury because I think he knows the interest in him boxing Francis and Ghanu only goes as far as people believing that Francis can win. And that doesn't go very far in a boxing match.

But when you do it with four ounce gloves and you give him a glimmer of hope, you know, you give Francis a glimmer of hope. Then you start to say, oh, well, maybe he can do it. You know what I mean? And in that way, I would say that too. Like that's what it would take for me to say Francis has a chance here

because in a straight-up boxing match, there's no heavyweight on earth right now that I would pick to be Tyson Fury. Why am I going to disrespect the man by saying a UFC champion with zero boxing experience is going to go in there beat the best heavyweight boxer in the world? Let's say, let's get them on me about halfway with the rules. How about we're doing the cage, four-hounds gloves, kickboxing, though.

Right? So now, okay, Francis got to learn to get his hands a little better. but Tyson got to learn how to kick a little better and deal with kicks a little better. Let's equalize this a little bit. That's my suggestion. Yeah, you do that. And again, if they just do straight up boxing, I'll 100% watch. Like, I love Francis deganu.

I'll support that dude twice a week, you know, seven times a week and twice on Sunday. I just don't like his chances in a boxing match. But yeah, kickboxing, four-ounce gloves, cage, do all, you know, do the little tweaks and changes. And also, Tyson, even if he gets knocked out, you know, if it's not boxing, it doesn't go on his record, so it's not like he's going to, you know, it's not like he's going to suddenly have, like, a loss in his boxing record because they're not going to sanction it as a boxing match. It would be a mixed rules fight or whatever you want to call it. So, yeah, I mean, dude. And again, that's why I kept saying to everyone that was arguing with me about, well, if you

do the Joshua fight, he has a better chance, to your point. Yes, he has a better chance to meet Anthony Joshua than he does to be Tyson Fury. But odds are still going to be heavily skewed towards Anthony Joshua to win that fight. And to me, Tyson's and Fury is a bigger payday. So if you're going to go out and have a chance to do one boxing match, hypothetically, get the biggest payday you can get. Fight Tyson Fury, make $50 million, cash out, and then go do MMA again. Or even if he loses, he could still say, well, I lost to the best of the world.

Now let me go fight Anthony Joshua. You know what I mean? But if you lose to Anthony Joshua, it all goes away. Yeah, that's a good call. Which reminds me, have you ever seen, I believe it was Trevor Burbank who did a kickboxing match? I believe I do remember that I do remember that yeah it's on YouTube where he

like he starts getting kicked in the leg and starts looking at the ref like what the fuck you do it and he actually leaves the rings I do remember that yeah I do remember that yeah if you haven't seen that do yourself a favor go on YouTube and watch that match

it's one of the most comical things you'll ever see in your life I do remember that with MX Platinum $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too.

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We were talking about boxing mat. Of course, we talked about Connor and Floyd. Big news over the weekend, of course. Connor is back officially. He is going to fight Michael Chandler, presumably later this year. They're first going to coach the next season of the ultimate fighter. I had a chance to chat with Michael earlier today. I'm actually going to throw that on next week's

podcast, talked to him for almost an hour about, you know, coaching against Connor and the fight and everything. I'll be honest, Matt, you were on the ultimate fighter during a time when I still cared about the ultimate fighter. Those days have long since passed. I don't care about the ultimate fighter anymore. I haven't for a long time. But smart on the UFC to get Connor back that way. It also gives Connor plenty of time to get back into the U-Sauda testing pool so he can do six months without having to like set out for six months, do the coaching. do all that kind of stuff. But the fight itself, this is the fight, man.

I'm glad this is the one they made. Chandler and Connor is a great matchup. It's a great fight. And, boy, I'm excited about this one. I'm right there with you. I think they said Connor still hasn't entered the testing pool, though. So he's got to get back in right away. Like the ultimate fighter only lasts a couple of months, right?

So we need to get him back in the testing pool. I'm right there with you. This is the fight to make two explosive guys. you know and this is a strategic fight man you know they both have a great chance of winning and this could just be a complete war man and both coming off losses so this is just the perfect fight man i actually i'm pretty excited to watch the show too because these two guys their personalities man of course connor is but so's chandler like he's going to fire back he's going to talk back and i think it's going to be a pretty exciting show to watch

watch, not even just for the fight. It's pretty rare that we like watching the Ultimate Fighter for all the drama and all the coach talk and everything. I think when Chale Sahnem was on there, that was one of the few that I really enjoyed. But this one, I think it's going to be tremendous. It's funny because while the Ultimate Fighter has changed and it's not nearly as popular as it once was, I think a lot of interest is going to get drawn back in with this season. I mean, I'm interested because, you know, again, I'm curious to see how Conner's going to be. going to coach and how he's going to interact with Chandler. But I mean, listen, you know the influence of the Ultimate Fighter, Matt, because there's,

I don't see hardly a week goes by where someone doesn't still tag you about the whole lemon juice and your dip thing from that season to tough. People still bring that up. How many years ago was that? And people still bring that up to you. That was 08, bro. Yeah, like, that's how much, that's how, but I see it on Twitter. I still see people bring that up now.

And like you said, that was certainly the heyday of the ultimate fighter. I was on probably one of the last seasons where it was really like a, you know, people really cared and people really watched. And then it just started falling off after that. Even though there were still some great fighters that came out of it, still some champions, I think, they came out after that. And, you know, still a great show all around. But, you know, you can only run a TV show for so long, you know, unless it's Jersey Shore or something. You know, just, you know, they all start to lose their appeal. Yeah.

Yeah, so I'm excited to watch it, man. Again, I think Connor and Chandler, I think they're going to be hilarious, bro. I think it's going to be good. Yeah, I think it's going to be great, man. And I actually have two guys that I know that have potential being on that show. So I'll definitely be wanting to watch them. One guy that I train with here locally is one of the finalists to be on the show. So, yeah, and he'll just smash through everybody, I think.

So I'll be excited to watch it. What weight is your guy at? 55. Okay, yeah, I assume it'll probably be. Chandler, they said they haven't known for sure what weight they're going to be coaching. And not that it really matters. I mean, they're going to coach whoever's there anyways, but lightweight, it makes sense. Although Chandler's pretty confident they're going to fight a welterweight because, you know,

Connor's so big right now and he's like, I'll gladly not cut weight to fight to fight McGregor. And here's the thing. I said this. So Michael, I know, I'm not. known Michael a long time and we go back since like I think before his first bellator fight so I go back a long ways with Michael Chandler Michael Chandler is has no problem going you know toe to toe with someone trash talking he's never going to pretend he's Connor McGregor with trash talk but he has no problem going back and forth with them but I give him crap so I'm not going to ruin the interview but I'll

mention something I ask me today because this is an honest question man I'll bring it up now as a topic to talk about on the show I said you know Connor Connor has already been Connor's been out for two years with the broken leg and before that he was out for a long time after the whole floyd fight big break you know came back for the kabim fight then another big break and then you had the two fights of porre in a year and then another you know two year break chandler chanler you know basically said this is a must win for both him and connor because you know right now michael's coming off a loss to dust of porier Connor's coming off two losses to porre as well but my question to him and i want to pose it to you matt because we can have a kind of a

open an honest discussion about this. I said that Connor is the biggest star in the sport. We all know that. He's a draw. But Connor's also a prideful guy. Connor, to me, Connor, the reason why he picked Michael Chandler is because Michael Chandler is a fight that he can win, but also Michael Chandler is still a top five lightweight. He didn't take a huge step down by taking on Michael Chandler. This is a step right back in the deep end of this division. But am I wrong in thinking that if Connor loses to Michael Chandler, not that it's a bad loss. since, I mean, it's a fine loss.

Chandler's a monster. But am I wrong in thinking that could be the last we see, Connor McGregor? Like, not to say, like, he's not good enough. I'm just saying, like, there's part of me that believes, like, three losses in a row, a broken leg, you know, all the things he's gone through. He's got, you know, billions, whatever it is in the bank.

He's got his whiskey money. He's got roadhouse coming out. He doesn't need the money. Is there, am I wrong? I'm thinking if he loses to Chandley, he gets knocked out by Chandler, that might be the last we ever see it. Connor McGregor, am I wrong in thinking that's possible?

I couldn't agree more. I have a hard time seeing him fighting again if he comes back and loses, especially a bad loss like that. Like you said, he's just not the type of guy to, doesn't have any reason to, right? Like, he's coming back because he loves fighting and he wants to put on show and wants to, you know, wants to be a champion again, I'm sure, right?

So, yeah, I can't imagine. him having the motivation to fight again if he comes back and gets knocked out by Michael Chandler. But I expect Connor to come back strong. And I think he's going to look great, man. I'm excited to see Connor again, actually. I know he's gotten

really big here in the past few years, but, you know, and he's been out of the Usada pool, which all that's going to be advantageous for him. The only thing is he hasn't been that he hasn't fought, like, you know, we all talk about ring rust all the time, right?

And some people say it's not real. Some people say it is. And, you know, there's different debates and opinions on that. But when you're out for as long as Connor's been out, dealing with what he's been going through. And then, you know, like you said, he came back after a long layoff. Like, he's just been so inactive the past few years. Chandler's been very active.

So he's going to have a huge advantage straight up off of that. And it's like, realistically, Connor comes back and loses to Chandler. Like, who does he even fight next? You know, it's not even, you know, part of it's, I think, the motivation. But there just isn't really like a lot of guys for him to fight next. And I think he loses some dollar value there, too, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, I think the only. He's always been the Red Pandy Night guy, right?

He is the money fight. he comes back and loses again, I don't see his dollar value being quite as high. I agree. And I also say the other reason why I say that is because I think the one other fight you could have made would have been him and Nate Diaz for a third time. But Nate's not in the UFC right now. Now maybe that changes if they offer Nate a boatload of money to come back and just fight Connor.

But you and I both know that UFC typically doesn't operate that way. They do not work on a short-term basis. They typically want to lock you into a multi-fifference. fight contract. They don't want to just sign you to one fight. Yeah, it's a lot of money, but you know, again, if Nate wins and then he just leaves the UFC again, you know, did they really gain a lot? So that's the one

other fight that I could have seen, but right now, that's not possible. Nate's not in the UFC. So the one other viable possibility isn't there. Yeah, and if he comes back and loses to Chandler, does Nate even care about that fight now? Yeah. He's got, he's got way too many options, right? Even if he signs back with

the UFC, he's got a lot of options. for big fights. Now he's the money guy too, right? Like he doesn't need Connor as much as he did before. Now Connor will be needing him. So maybe he takes a fight, but I don't think he needs that fight to be honest if Connor's coming off another loss. Yeah, I just, again, I wasn't trying to like stir controversy, but I'm just being

honest. Like, I just think I see a world. If Connor loses to Michael Chandler, that might be it. Like, that might be the end of it. Because he's got so much other stuff going on. He has 34, 35. It's not like he's a young guy anymore. he's not 27 coming in the UFC anymore.

He's accomplished everything. He's been a double champ. He's got boatloads of money. He's going to continue to make boatloads of money and all the businesses. He sold his whiskey for freaking nine figures, whatever it is. So, yeah, I just, I don't, because, I mean, how much, I mean, if Connor loses to Michael Chandler, do we really,

are we really going to get that excited about seeing fight Tony Ferguson at that point? Are we really going to get excited? You know what I mean? Like, and again, there's a reason why Connor's coming to be coming back. against Michael Chandler because a winner for Michael Chandler puts him right back in the conversation of being champion. He loses though. That's three in a row, four out of his last five. I just had to pose you. And I'll be honest, Chandler's a really hard matchup. Chandler hits like a freaking monster. Chandler uses his wrestling, which has always been a bit of a weak spot for Connor. And Chandler,

as I said to Michael Chandler, and I'll say again now, and you know this, Matt, like you do not walk out of a fight with Michael Chandler unscathed. Like, no one walks out of a fight. with him, clean, feeling good. They got a one-punch knockout. You walk out feeling like you've been in a car crash. Can Connor, after the broken leg, and, you know, all these months off in years, is he ready to get into a dog fight with Michael Frick and Chandler? Like, that's a real question that I have, like, right now?

I lean towards Michael Chandler winning that fight because even in the fights he's lost, he's made it hard. He almost had Gauchy hurt. He had Porre hurt badly in that first round, almost down and out. He had Charles Olivera. Oliver was maybe two punches away from being finished. So can Connor take that kind of punishment and come back? I don't know.

I mean, I don't know. I think that's a great question. And that's where the actual ring rust comes in. When you talk about ring rust, like Connor could come in just as sharp, just as ready. But he hasn't been hit like that in a fight in front of millions of people with all that pressure in a very long time. And I think that's what it comes down to, right?

Like getting hit in the gym is one thing. Getting hit and seeing stars, getting a little bit rocked, and having Michael Chandler in your face ready to throw more punches is a completely different thing. And that's where I think a lot of the experience of fighting actually helps. You learn how to deal with those big shots a lot better. I learned a lesson very well when I fought Robbie Lawler. I still remember to this day. You know, I hit him, I rocked him.

And he was the first guy that I'd ever hit that hard, that square, rocked him. And he handled it properly, right? He kept his defense up. He looked at me ready to fight. He smiled, you know, a couple different times when I did. You know, and that threw me off. But if you're not used to that, if you're not in there fighting fairly regularly, You know, I think that's one of the big factors when we talk about ring rust,

dealing with those shots very well. Most likely, you get hit by Chandler. But Connor is a very, very slick boxer. And if Connor was active, I would probably favor him pretty heavily in this fight. With him being so inactive, I think that even sends out a lot. lot and with Chandler being so active and like you said, Chandler's rocked everybody to the spot, I think. I think you know, win or lose, like he rocks you.

And I think he's probably learning from those lessons and getting better at it and conserving his energy better. At least I hope so. We haven't necessarily seen it in the cage, but you know, at least I hope so. And I think if he does that and he uses that experience to his advantage, you know, this might be his fight. we don't see Connor again.

He might send Connor into retirement. Yeah, and also the other thing I've had this, if I had, because I'm with you, Matt, you know, I've always liked Connor. I've always enjoyed Connor personally and professionally. I've always had a great relationship with Connor. I think he's a legend and he does, yeah, I really like Connor. I really like Connor.

You know, I still have Matt Brown owing me money from when Connor McGregor knocked out Jose Aldo from like four years ago, just throwing that out there. one of my most famous best than one of my out there sometimes you only remind me on air yeah what I what I live I live in infamy I live on the I live on the grace of that win because like I picked I picked Connor to beat Aldo

and I still live on the grace of that win but the other thing is that I know I know like I know I feel like I'm picking on Connor but I'm being honest here like I still Matt I still think one of the biggest one of the biggest concerns I have about Connor McGregor now is who's around him making him better. I don't have any problem.

John Cavanall is not a bad head coach. I don't think he's a bad head coach. But is John Cavanall, I'm not saying that Connor doesn't have good people in his gym. I'm not saying that. There's guys in Ireland who are good. They're absolutely good fighters coming out of Ireland. That's 100% true.

But does Connor have the killers around him that are going to get him ready for a guy like, because I know what Michael Chandler has. Michael Chandler has Gilbert Burns. He has Logan Storely. He has Robbie Lawler. He has Jason Jackson. He has just a laundry list of murderers row of good fighters at Kill Cliff M.A.

And Henry Hooft and all those guys. Oosman goes down there. I mean, you have just a laundry list of good fighters to walk you through the fire to get you ready for Connor McGregor. Now, do any of them fight like Connor? Not necessarily. But again, I'm talking about like just the rounds to get you ready. Does he does, and I've, that's my one biggest, like, concern about Connor at this stage in the career. You know, he builds a camp around him, which is what boxer's doing.

I think that's a great idea. I think more fighters should probably do that. But does he have that level of competition? Is he, because my biggest concern with Connor, to me, Matt, it feels like Connor's always the best guy in the gym. Yeah, and to add to that, you know, is Connor in their training grimy? right like that's you know that's how Chandler's training like with all those guys like he's going to have some grimy shark tank

just dirty gritty sessions where he's got a gut through it and and you know just work you know get pushed by those guys you just mentioned and plus more you know those are just some of the guys down there right like there's a like you said a laundry list of guys you know is Connor gonna and you know is that good or bad too right like maybe Chandler's taking a lot damaging camp too.

You know, that could also hurt him potentially. But I get the feeling, you know, we're like we were just talking about last week, man. MMA is a group of savages, man. And Connor, you know, we don't see at least, you know, we only see him on Instagram. We're not around him every day or hanging out with him. But what we're seeing is a lot of flashy, good looking stuff and him enjoying himself. We don't, you know, I don't get to. feeling that he's in there getting grimy, man.

And I think that's what it comes down to because when you go to fight Chandler, it's going to be a fucking grimy fight. Yeah. Well, you own your gym here in town. And I know you bring in a lot of good people to work with. Obviously, we've seen it in the past. But like, you're the owner and the name of your gym, but I guarantee, and I'm not saying he never does, but I'm saying like, I know there are rounds in a sparring session that you lose,

right? Like you don't always win every round. You don't always win every grappling. You don't always win every boxing exchange. That's how you get better and that's how you learn. And I know it's so cheesy, but like the whole iron sharpens iron thing. And I just wonder. And again, I don't know.

Maybe Connor does and he's just never posted it. But like, are there guys pushing Connor? You know, are there guys, you know, are there guys at that level wrestles? Because I know, like, even wrestling, like, I know he's not working with wrestlers that as good as Chandler is. Or is he? Is he going to be willing to bring in, you know, guys who can wrestle? like Chandler? Is he going to be willing to work with guys who are going to beat him up a little bit?

And like make him question his confidence for a second and have to work and come back. Like these are all questions I have about Connor because you need that. Like I know like I talk to people all the time who say like I lose rounds and sparring. It pisses me off in the moment. But then I realize I just need to get better. You know what I mean? Like are there those guys who do that? Because I sometimes I get the sense with Connor that it's a lot of, you know,

he's surrounding himself with people that he can beat. You know, is he surrounding himself with people to. can beat him. Because I know you do, Matt. I know Chandler does. You know what I mean? Like, you have to tie those guys around you. Yeah. You know, I actually coach guys to beat me. Like, in my opinion, that's the sign of a good coach, right? If you're a student, it gets better than you. Right. I teach them my own tricks, things that I do and they come in and they know that I'm about to try them and do them. And of course, yeah, you know, we bring in guys that are at least as good, if not better than me, but I'm also in a very different point in my career too, right?

Like I'm definitely like towards the tail end. You know, I don't know which fight will be the last. I got a five-fight contract, right? So maybe I'll do all five, maybe not. But, you know, I'm 42 years old. And I'm at the point where, you know, I'm not fighting top 10 guys. I'm not fighting top five guys. Connor's still young.

And he's fighting a young Chandler, you know, not real young, but, you know, young at least, you know, athletically, right? And these guys can, maybe not I'm young, but still in their athletic prime. And again, when you get into a fight with Chandler, it will get grimy. It will get dirty. It will get messy. That is almost a guarantee. And you at least have to plan for that, right? Like you can't expect that fight.

I mean, hopefully, you know, for Connor, he's going to hope that he goes in and lands a combo like he did on Eddie Alvarez and puts him out and doesn't get touched or like he did on Jose Aldo or something like that. But the likelihood of that happening against the Chandler is very slim. And when you're fighting Michael Chandler, you better be ready for the to go through the fucking fire, man. He is going to bring the fire to you for sure. there's no question about that. So you better be prepared for it whether it happens or not. So, you know, again, they're kind of like, you know, it's hard to draw analogies there because it's kind of in different spots

of their career. Like if Connor wants to get back to being, you know, champion or, you know, at least fighting for the championship again, he's got to get grinding, man. And, you know, we're not seeing it on social media. Whether he's doing it or not, who really knows? Yeah. Well, like I said, that's my biggest fear.

You know, who are you surrounding? you surrounding yourself with? Are you surrounding yourself with people who are going to really truly get you better? Are you surrounding yourself with people who are going to say, you know, yes, sir. You know, are they, are they? When you were, you were asking about me specifically, I didn't want to answer it too much, but, you know, I got Mark Coleman in there every day. He doesn't let it be easy for me. If I'm in there beating up a guy and the guy's a little too easy for me, like, he'll just throw me on the air dine and get me tired. And then, okay, now go spar him. You know, he'll scream at me.

You know what I mean? Like, Mark Coleman does not allow easy rounds, period. I mean, there's been times where he'll go grab the heavy bag and throw it in there and, you know, maybe I'm beating up a guy a little too easy or something. He'll throw the heavy bag in there and make me start throwing the heavy bag round and punching it in between rounds, right? So, you know, when you got a guy, you know,

Connor would be very well served to have a guy like Mark Coleman around him, making him do things that he just simply does not want to do. Yeah, absolutely. And again, you know, the losses that Chandler has had in the UFC, and I know we talked about his style and do you want to fight for the fans, do you want to fight for yourself, that kind of stuff? But at the end of the day, the guys who beat him are guys who could go toe to toe and guys who could weather that storm and guys who were able to come back and win

because he had she had Gauchy hurt. He had Porier hurt. He had Olivaher hurt. those guy, all three of those guys came back to beat Michael Chandler. Can Connor take that right hand, get knocked on his ass, just get absolutely waylaid and then still survive and come back? I don't know. Like, we've not really seen Connor in those situations when Connor got, like, Connor had some early good moments in that second fight with Porre. And then Porre just weathered the storm and came back and beat the brakes off him. And the set, the third fight where he broke his leg,

it was not looking good for Connor. That was, that was, that was large. largely one-way traffic for Dustin Porre. Can Connor get hit by that right hand, get knocked down, get bloodied up, and then get back up again to be Michael Chandler? I don't know. I just don't know if he can. I would, my first assumption is that he cannot, that he will not. You know, that takes a certain amount of motivation, discipline, hunger that I'm not sure

that Connor has at this point. But, you know, if Chandler plays that game with Connor, I also think that's. a very dangerous game for Chandler to play against Connor because Connor is not for you a gaugie or Oliver. Connor has very good movement. Connor is very good on the feed, very long, and I think that's a dangerous game for Chandler. Yeah, I just think, like I said, Chandler needs to, this is a fight unlike other ones where

you and I have said, like, you know, maybe he should change his style. There's two things I would suggest here. Chandler can wrestle, which we know he can out wrestle Connor. That's a given. He's a much better wrestler and grappler. He could go to that path and get a victory that way. But otherwise, Chandler needs to fight like Chandler does in this fight. He needs to be willing to go in there and hit Connor, make it grimy, make it dirty,

make it, you know, just an ugly fight because Connor doesn't want that. We all know that. Connor wants to stand on the outside, pick you apart, counter shot, throw that left hand and knock your block off. And can he do that? Absolutely. Connor McGregor can still do that. He may style on him like he did Eddie Alvarez.

But, again, if I'm a betting man, at some point Chandler's going to hit him. at some point Chandler's going to tag him and can Connor weathered that storm the other way? Can Connor come back? Again, I'm just right now and again two days after the fight gets announced, we only know when it's happening, all that kind of stuff. Right now, today, you know, Monday, February 6th as we're recording this episode, I would pick Michael Chandler to win that fight. Maybe that'll change.

Maybe we'll see enough from Connor in the next eight months that I'll change my mind. But right now, I'd have to lean towards Michael Chandler. The only thing I'm going to disagree on that is I think Connor could probably wrestle with Chandler better than anybody thinks and can. When I watched him wrestle, he'd get wrestled by Khabib, he showed some very, very good wrestling. Khabib just showed the next level of wrestling. Khabib is obviously one of the best wrestlers we've ever had in the Octagon. And Honor did some very, very good things. He made very tiny mistakes.

We've talked about this before, I believe. I think he could fix those mistakes. pretty quickly, pretty easy. As long as he's training it, right, and working hard on it. And Chandler's style of wrestling is not at, I'm not saying he's not a great wrestler, but it is not as deep and nuanced as Khabibb's. Khabi does lots of angles, does lots of different things, has lots of options from all the different positions.

Chandler's more of a straight-on wrestler. As far as I've seen, he may have those in his toolbox and just not shown them. but Khabib does a lot of chain type things and a lot of different things that we don't see in America quite as much that Dagestanian style. I think Connor can wrestle with Chandler a lot better than people think.

I don't think he could take Chandler down, you know, which obviously isn't going to be his game plan anyway, but I think it's going to be a lot tougher for Chandler to get, take down than people think it is. Yeah, it's an interesting fight. It's a really interesting fight. It's the perfect fight. But again, I'm being honest when they say, it's do or die.

Like I said, because Chandler's going to come back. And even if he loses to Connor, he's going to get a huge payday. And we can still see him fight, you know, any number of guys at that point. And it's still interesting because Chandler's just that dude. Chandler's like Gaichi. Like, you know, Gachie can lose two fights, three fights. And we still want to see Justin Gaichi fight because we know what we're getting. Connor, I just can't see.

I just, again, I'm just being honest. I can't see Connor losing the Chandler. Be like, you know what? Let me come back and fight Arm and Sarukian. And that's not a knock on Arm and Saruki. Like, Arm and Saruki is a freaking monster. I'm saying, like, I can't see Connor losing and saying, you know, let me come back and fight. You know, again, the one option would have been Nate Diaz, and that's no longer an option.

At least right now it's not an option. So, again, Connor loses. That may be it. I'm being honest. Like, that may be the end of the road for him. The fact is the, you know, there were two things that we always loved about Connor. For one, he would talk up the big game, right? That was a huge, huge part of it.

And then he backed it up. in the past few years he's not backed it up. So you can only talk that big game. It only goes so far until you actually back it up, right? And then we become uninterested in the talk. And if he doesn't back it up in this fight, we're going to get uninterested in all the big talk. And it's not going to carry very much weight going forward.

Yeah, and the other fight I would mention, one other fight that would be out there is Dosayneos, because we never got to see that fight. But if he loses the Chandler, you know, Javier D'Ozano. Dos is, to me, an even worse matchup because he's such a high-level grappler. You know, all he has to do is pull the guard one time, and I'm not saying Connor's terrible on the ground, but I don't think, because we know D'Ozanoos will take him down and just go

for an arm triangle. He's not going to play the let's punch each other until one of us falls over game with Connor McGregor. Dos, if that fight would happen, he's going to go for a leg, he's going to pull for for knee bars and leg locks and, you know, arm triangles. And again, I just, I can't see Connor losing the Chandler and being like, you know what, give me Neil Magny. No, he's not going to do that.

Like, that's not Connor. I just, I just, Connor wants to be at the top and credit to Connor for taking Michael Chandler because this is not an easy fight, man. He could, he could have picked easier fights, tune up fights, whatever you want, and done those instead. This ain't that.

And so it's hard. But if he loses, again, if Nate Diaz isn't out there, I don't know what other option would be out there for him. And again, Connor's already taking two year breaks here and there. And he's 34, 35, going on 35 now, like at 38, 37, is he really going to want to come back and fight, you know, Matush Gamrodot and fight that monster? Is he going to want to come back and fight, you know, Raphael Fiziev? I just, I just don't see it. No, you don't want to fight Fiziv.

Yeah, Conner's brand is already there, right? Like, he's, his only motivation I can imagine him fighting out is for the glory, right? Like, he has the money. He has the brand. I'm surprised that he didn't come back and fight Tony Ferguson. I thought that was going to be the fight, you know, but here he is. He's fighting Chandler, and I'm fucking stoked for it, man. I think it's going to be a great lead-up, and I think it's going to be a great fight. And that would have been the easier choice.

That's not a knock on Tony Ferguson, just Tony's at a different place in his career right now. You know what I mean? We've got to be honest where Tony's at in his career, Connor would have an easier, and he would be a bigger favorite against Tony. That ain't the case with Chandler. He is not going to be happy. You know, this is not an easy fight. So again, credit to Connor.

He could have said, give me Tony. He didn't. He said, give me Chandler. credit to him for taking the tougher fight because to me that is definitely the tougher fight. Yeah, at least on paper it seems like a tougher fight. So I'm ready to see it, man. Let's get it going. Speaking of championships before we get out of here, Matt, of course, we got a big pay-per-view coming up in a matter of days.

Islam Machinjad, I have taken on Alexander Volcanowski and Josh Emmett battling Yair Rodriguez for the interim featherweight title. There's some other good fights with the card. Jack Della Madelena coming back. I love that dude. That dude's a monster. really looking forward to his fight on there as well. But we got to talk about the two title fights real quick, bad before we get out of here, of course, Josh Emmett,

Yaya Rodriguez, very intriguing matchup. The winner gets the interim title and then eventually moves on to fight Volcanowski. We've had, obviously we co-hosted a show in the past of Josh Emmett. You and me and Josh Emmett came on here and break down some fights. How do you feel about this one? Who are you picking between Emmett and Yair? Boy, I'm way up in the air on this one. I have no idea, to be honest, man.

You know, I think it just comes down to whether Emmett can land that solid shot, because I don't think Yajir has the chin to deal with Emmett's power. I mean, he has massive power. It hurts people every time he touches him. I think that's really all it comes down to. Jai'er's going to throw his wild stuff. He's going to do his tricky, creative things. And, boy, that is a fucking fight, man.

That is the one everybody, of course, is talking about Vulcan Islam. But damn. at Yair, that is the fight to watch for sure, I think. Yeah, I lean towards Josh Emmett in this one because I think that Yair, as good as he is, I think he relies a little bit too much on the flashy, kind of catch you with the crazy stuff kind of thing like he did against. I mean, people forget he was losing to the Korean zombie in a lopsided fight and he caught him with that weird back elbow thing and he won.

He got handled, you know, I mean, he put up, listen, he put up a great fight against Max Holloway. That was a really intriguing fight, but he ultimately lost, you know, not saying lopsided fashion, but it wasn't like a, you know, it wasn't like the fight where it was like a split decision or anything. He just, he gave Max a tougher time that I think a lot of people credit him for, but ultimately it was still a Max Holloway win. I just think Emmett's wrestling, his power, um, he's been in these five round fights like this. I just lean towards Josh Jim. Now, am I confident in that pick? One percent not. Yair is that dude. That dude could pull out the spinning back elbow in the fifth round and knock you out and the fight's over.

But based on right now, if I'm picking, I would lean towards Emmett. Yeah, hard to argue with that because Emmett does have the fundamentals a little better. He seems a little more durable as a person, as a fighter. So I think I'm with you, you know, a little bit, a little lean towards Emmett. But like you said, Yair is just wild, man. You know, he could bring out some crazy tools we've never seen. for and and how him it handles those is going to be the big question in this fight. Yeah.

Now, the main event, Islam Machachev against Alexander Volcanov. You know, when this fight got made, Matt, and again, when he got announced, I said, I love Volcanovsky. He's incredible. You know, potentially on the way to becoming the greatest featherweight of all time. Right now, that title is held by Jose Aldo. But he has a win over Aldo. If he goes out there to defense his title a couple more times, I can see Volcanozky

knocking on the door of that greatest featherweight of all time conversation. But I said, man, Mahachov, Makachev is so good right now that I just don't see anybody beating him. Am I talking myself into like trying to make this a more compelling fight by saying that I think Volkanowski has a better chance a lot of people are giving him? Or am I just like, am I trying to make this a more compelling fight? Because if you asked me this two months ago when the fight got made, I thought Makachov was going to blow him out. it was going to be a, you know, just a dominant, because Mokachachin's a huge lightweight,

Volcanowski's not a natural lightweight, the wrestling, the power, all that. Like, I'm just like, yeah, this is just a bit of a bad matchup for Volcanovsky. I don't know. Maybe I'm trying to talk myself into making this a better fight than it is. Yeah. I think we're going to find out pretty quickly in the fight, right,

if Volt stands a chance, right? I mean, I think it's pretty obvious what's going to happen here, right? If Islam can get him down, it's going to be a very, very long night or very short night, one or the other for Volcanovsky. And, you know, if Volk can get back up or stop to take down right away, then, you know, I guess it didn't. And that's, you know, Volk has so much to overcome in this fight, you know, and I respect him greatly for taking this fight.

And I kind of, I didn't think about it until I heard Kiesa talking about it here last night this morning, you know, and he said if Volk wins this fight, he's the greatest ever. And I never thought about that, but he's certainly got to be in the talks as, you know, one of the goats. Like, if he wins his fight, I mean, this is a huge, just the worst matchup you could imagine for him and going up and wait, you know, you got to respect him for taking this chance. But, you know, it's really hard to find a place to pick. Volkanowski to win this fight is where it just gets complicated, right?

It's like, you know, do you think he's going to pick him apart without getting taken down? You know, it's only going to take one mistake to get taken down. And we know what Islam can do once he gets you down. So, you know, I kind of hope that, you know, I like Volcanovsky so much that I kind of hope that he surprises us. But, you know, I think he just has an uphill battle here. Yeah, I think that I agree with you.

And I might slow down in the whole greatest of all time, Caltaught, because I'm a big favor. I'm in big favor of longevity. And that's why guys like John Jones and Demetrius Johnson to me, you know, are much higher in that whole, you know, because, again, beating Machachchev would be huge. But Machachov just won the title. It's not like he's a 10-time defending champion,

take the bell from him. That being said, yeah, I mean, Volcanowski can stuff a couple of takedowns and work from the outside. His striking is so good. He's so dynamic on the feet, man. And the way he learned and got better against Max Holloway, and then that third fight was just a blowout. I mean, Volcanovsky just beat the brakes off of Max. And I have so much respect for Max Holloway.

He is such a good striker. And Volcanowski picked him apart in that third fight. I mean, it was just like, wow. Like, that was the fight that really blew my mind for Volcanowski, where I was like, okay, this is the dude right here. Like, this is the guy. But as you said, can he do that for five rounds? Can he do that without Volkanowski taking him down? Can he do that without Volcanoch who's taking him down?

Can he do that with Mokachev taking him down and pushing him against the cage? Can he do that with Mokachev on top of him? I just, I don't know. It's a tall order for me, and I still lean towards Mokachev winning this fight. I don't know if he'll get a finish. Maybe he catches him in a submission or something, or maybe a late finish. But I just, I don't know, man. Like I said, I think the toughest matchup for Islam Makhachev right now is

Benile Daryush, who's not getting the title shot because Benile has great wrestling, great jiu-jitsu, knockout power on the feet, and he is a natural lightweight, a big lightweight. I love Volcanovsky, man, and it kind of breaks my heart that he might go out there and get dealt this fight, but, again, I got to pick my-I-I-can-back-up. I can't back up on my pick now, Matt, because back then I said, McAchev ain't losing anybody, and I still believe that. Like, I don't think there's anyone a lightweight right now that beats him, and I can't suddenly picked the featherweight champion to beat him if I say no lightweight's going to beat him. Yeah, it's just simply hard to pick against Makachem on paper in this fight.

Again, Volcanovsky might surprise us, but on paper, I mean, it just doesn't make any logical sense to pick Volcanovsky in this fight. And, you know, it would be a surprise if he does anything else. And, you know, I'm kind of cheering for him in this fight to do it because I want him, you know, I like him enough that I would love to see him start. again, I don't think he would be one of the greatest of all time winning the fight, but I think he starts working towards that talk. I think he's the moment.

I think, you know, Kiesa was one that said he's the greatest of all the time who wins this fight, which is, you know, jump in a few steps ahead. But I think, I do think now we can start opening that conversation up if he wins this fight, and especially if he wins it handedly. Oh, 100%. I don't disagree 100%. The absolutely does. Can I, real quick, before you get out of here, man, can I throw this out there

because I have this argument as well, and I want to mention to you to get your thoughts real quick. I love this fight. I love the billing of it. It's pound for pound number one versus pound for pound number two. It's champ versus champ. I get all that. But am I wrong in thinking that the champ versus champ fight

has started to lose how special it's supposed to be? Like this was, Makachov just became champion. He was literally in the cage celebrating his win and Volcanowski's in there. Walkinovsky's like a four or five time defending four-time champion, I think, whatever it is. I mean, that's awesome. And he has like, you know, three wins over Max Holloway.

That's insane. All that's great. But it just doesn't feel earned anymore, man. I feel like ever since Connor did it in 2016, it's like every few months it feels like we're talking about this champion. I mean, Johnny Eblen won his fight on Saturday in Bellator beat, you know, beat Anatoly Tokoff in his first title defense. And there's reporters asking him afterwards.

What do you think about going up to light heavyweight? John's for that time. I'm like, dude, he just got the belt. He has one title. defense like earn it like when i like when b j pin fought gsp that to me was like the pinnacle of you know the best of the best from two divisions fighting each other bj had been the best lightweight for a long time gs p was clearly the best welterweight at the time it was a clash of champions and you know like i said it's felt i mean don't get me wrong i've enjoyed some of the other

i enjoyed cormier and and and stepe but dude we got to slow down in this champ versus champ thing for a while because it's losing its specialness like it's losing the unique quality because we didn't have it forever we never got and anderson sylva and george sapier we never got and jason sylva and john jones we never got john jones and kane velasquez and i'm bummed about all that but i'm also like yeah but now it's kind of ruined like is it like blojovic and israel is that was that really that special like come on now yeah i kind of agree with either there I hadn't never really thought about it personally, but, you know, it makes for a big fight. And, you know, the thing is the guy coming up has nothing to lose.

So, of course, they're always going to call for that. Like, Volcanowski doesn't have anything to lose. He was going to fight Yai or Emmett regardless, right? So he goes and loses. He could lose in one minute against his mom. Come back, he still gets to fight Yaya or Emmett, right? So it only makes sense for that guy to push for it. I guess it comes down to whether the UFC wants to.

keep making these kind of matchups. And, you know, I think a lot of people have complained about the promotion for this fight, right? And, you know, I guess if you're going to be making these champ-first-champ fights, guys are going to be moving up and wait. You've got to promote them, right? Right. You've got to make them big fights every time.

And like you said, when Izzy went up and fought Yon, I didn't feel like that was a gigantic fight. I mean, I love watching Izzy, so it was big to me. He's one of my favorite fighters in the history of a sport. But it didn't feel that gigantic to me. when Connor did it it felt huge right but Conard makes everything huge so I'm right there with you man I'm not sure you know maybe they need to figure out a way some sort of structure to doing this the right way I just I miss the long reigning champions you know what I mean like I talked I talked to

I talked to Demetrius last week and and you know I was kind of marveling I like when he said like 11 title defense like my god that's such an just an astronomical number and again that's like the all time record you know Anderson was, you know, right below and whatever. But like, Valentin, I think, is going for number seven or number eight coming up. And, like, that's such an amazing achievement. Um, I miss that. like, I miss guys or girls being like eight nine time, you know, seven, eight, nine time defending champion. You know what is how hard that is? Like, to me, that's much harder than just going up and winning a second belt in your third fighter. Well, you know what I mean? I'm not saying,

like, it's not hard to go up a division and win it because we've seen it not work out. Israel lost to Jan Belhovich. But, um, I just, I don't know. To me, it's like I miss the long-reigning champions. Like I miss like and then, you know, if Volcanowski, it was a nine-time, you imagine Volcanowski was a nine-time defending champion and then going up. To me, that would make this that bigger, that much bigger of a fight. Or if Mokachev had been like a five-time defending champion and Volcanowski is a five-time defending champion, then they clash.

Like, this came together because it's like, oh, you know, it's a bit, yeah, it's a big fight. I like it's, I'm glad it's happening. It's a good fight. But like, wouldn't it be a little bit more special if Mahak-Chaf had beaten Porrier and Gachi and Daryush and he was a five-time divining champion. Then we get this fight. Yeah, I think that's a great point then.

And again, I think someone like Volcanowski, it makes so much sense for him, though. So he's going to try to push for it. Oh, of course. Yeah, if they let him do it, then, you know, more power to him. For Islam, to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense, you know, but, you know, more power to him, you know, he's comfortable doing it and confident in his skills. but because Volcanowski's not like a small 145 pounder either. Like he's,

I think he used to weigh like 200 something pounds, right? So like his frame is going to be okay at this way. It's just a matter of, you know, he's got to deal with fucking Islam, right? Yeah, he's a shorter guy who's going to give up a lot of, you know, reach that way. But in terms of size, I don't think he's going to be a much ball. But yeah, like I said, you could be, you can be any, you could be 170 pounds walking around. you're still going to struggle against Islam fucking Machagell. That dude's a monster.

Like, you know, I think that's what gets lost. Like, Mokachev is a freaking monster, dude. Like, I don't see anybody beating him. Yeah, again, I just, like I said, I love it. I love this matchup, but like, I want it to be special again. I want it to be like, you know, where Izzy was. And again, Izzy got beat by Pereira, so of course it's not going to happen. But, like, if Izzy had never lost and then they built it up to where he would go up to light heavyweight.

And that, you know, it just, I don't know. know it just doesn't feel earned anymore it doesn't it doesn't feel special um when izzie did it he was on a long streak right like he hadn't lost up to that point so but is he is he going up to fight john jones that would have been huge getting yon that's that's not a knock on yon blovich but i mean come on where we you know izzie and yon blahovitch was it just felt like another fight well it was the same thing like yon wasn't a long dominating champion either right so you know as the champion and you, you know, you defend the title maybe once or something. I don't know if Yahn had even defended it once yet,

but now he's got to defend it against a lighterweight guy coming up. So it takes away from the allure of the heavier guy, in my opinion. And also, this is not a knock on Makachev at all, but he just won the belt. But like, imagine if Khabib was still champion. Khab and Volkanowski would be a much bigger fight, right? Because Volkanowski is a multi-time. Kabib's the long, you know what I mean?

Like when you combine it, forces, you know, it's like a comic book thing. You combine forces, you get a more powerful, a more powerful fight. When you kind of diminish that on one side, it just doesn't feel as special, doesn't feel as earned as if you had

like a, you know, a five or six time defending champion against another five or six time defending champion, then it's special. But right now it's like, yeah, it's a good fight. I like the fight, but it just doesn't feel earned. Like it just feels like, oh, well, again, it feels very Izzy Blaovich. It doesn't feel G.S.P.

B.J. PIN where like all eyes on the world were on that fight. It just feels like, oh yeah, two champions are fighting each other. Okay. Yep, yep. I tell you where you're coming from. And, you know, again, it makes sense for Volcanovsky. So, you know, and it's, boy, it's a big uphill

battle for him, but if he can overcome it, then it will be a gigantic fight then, right? You know, if they end up rematching or, you know, whatever happens after, if both can go up there and and find a way to be Islam, you know,

he's going to be a gigantic star. So he's got everything on the line here. And well, Islam has everything on the line, everything to lose, whereas Volk has nothing to lose. So, you know,

yeah. I'm cheering for Volk. I love the guy. So there are a few things I can imagine that would be more miserable in this sport than spending 25 minutes underneath Islam Makach. Like I just couldn't imagine that's a fun time. Like I,

like probably the least favorite thing I'd want to do right now Let's take a punch for Francis de Gano because that seems like the least fun ever. But at least then he hits you once and it's over and you wake up and you're like, okay, I don't really remember getting hit because I just got hit by a Mack truck and it's over. Spending 20 minutes, 25 minutes underneath McCachia. That just seems like the least fun ever. Yeah, it doesn't sound so enjoyable. All right.

All right, we're going to get out of here. Of course, we'll be back next week to break down everything that happened at UFC 284 and hopefully get some news about mass fight as well, which would be exciting. obviously want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes into the fighter versus the writer every week. You can check us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. Matt, what else you got going on anywhere? Anything you want to plug?

Anything coming up? People want to check out for you? Everybody knows. You can follow me on Twitter, Instagram. I am The Immortal. Check out my coffee website, The Immortalcoffee.com. Best coffee in the fucking world, man. So I've got my instructionals on dynamic striking.com.

I'm working on my own website for my own instructional. I'm going to put together a full MMA curriculum. Should be released. I think in the summertime is probably what it's looking like right now. You'll see a lot about that on my Instagram and Twitter. Facebook also. And if anyone needs romantic Airbnb in the Smoky Mountains, I got one that is open for Valentine's Day still.

Oh, there you go. It gets you to stay in the immortal, the immortal love shack. Yeah, yeah. It's actually called Cupidide Away. Oh, nice. And it is on Cupid Way, which is the name of the street. And you can go check it out on Airbnb. And this has been a great fun venture for me.

And this thing is absolutely killing it, man. and smoky mountains and cabins are awesome. You've never been there. You need to go check it out. It's a great place to spend Valentine's Day with your love one. Yeah, here's what you didn't know, people. Matt Brown is fucking romantic. That's what you didn't know.

Matt Brown? I'm romantic as fuck, bro. Maybe I'll bring on my girls sometime and she can tell you. I got some fucking romance in me, bro. See, you're not just a badass fighter. You also got some romance in you. I like it. Sweet, soft, romantic Matt Brown.

That's not the Matt Brown most people are used to sing. So, yeah, interesting. All right. I like to make love. So I like to give it. Coleman calls it the Super Bowl. He said, because he was living in my basement for a while and he would hear me. He said, bro, every time it's a fucking Super Bowl for it, isn't it?

I don't do no scrimmages. No regular season. Oh, my God. I do not want to think about those conversations. That is the last thing I want to hear about. Oh, man. Coleman Yeah, talk to Coleman

Yeah, talk to Coleman. Let's come on next week. We'll see if we get Coleman on here and tell us some stories and we'll chat with him. Maybe he'll come on and join the podcast with a little reunion of the old podcast. Yeah, be a great time, man.

He's one of the finest guys around. He is. He's a blast. All right, folks. We appreciate everyone tuning in to the Fighter versus the Rider. We'll see you next week after UFC 284. Thanks for tuning in.

And we'll see you then. Podcast Network. Okay. Okay. Only 10 more present to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first? There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.