MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Talks Mark Coleman, Hill’s Chances To Beat Pereira, Latest On McGregor

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin discussing the latest news from combat sports and opening the show with a tribute to Mark Coleman after he saved his parents from a house fire this past week. Thankfully after a short stay in the hospital, Coleman is on the road to recovery and we’ll discuss our favorite times with the former UFC heavyweight champion after hosting a podcast with him for two years and he now serves as a mainstay at Brown’s Ohio based gym. We’ll also discuss the blowback that UFC 300 has received over the main event and Bo Nickal taking as pot on the main card over more established veterans. Did the UFC make the right move putting Nickal as one of the top fights on arguably the biggest card of the year? Plus Brown cautions doubters counting out Jamahal Hill as he prepares to return to action against Alex Pereira in the light heavyweight main event. We’ll also discuss the latest happening with Conor McGregor as he continues to details his frustration with not fighting and Michael Chandler’s decision to wait on his return. Brown argues that while he understands why Chandler is waiting, he’s not sure a win over McGregor will do as much for him now as it would have a few years ago. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And Matt, here we are back. And I don't want to open the show on a somber note necessarily. Actually, this is a positive note. But we did our show last week. And obviously, everyone knows our former co-host, a good friend, Mark Coleman, has been dealing with a lot. He is out of the hospital now, but I wanted to open the show by paying tribute to our boy, Coley.

We did podcasting with him for several years together, but obviously still a close friend of mine and very close friend to yours, comes to the gym all the time. and happy to say that it seems like Coli's doing a little bit better now. So I just wanted to us to kind of open the show with that. Yeah, man, he's looking a lot better. I talked to him, but yesterday, he's out of the hospital now. I don't know if you've seen. Well, I think he mentioned it in his Instagram post.

You know, he got pneumonia, went back to the hospital. They actually thought that he had a heart attack. So they took him back to the hospital. But, man, God bless his soul. Like, what a hero. and like his book and movie is going to be the most insane book movie in history, man. Like what a life this guy's lived. And, you know, what is just another great chapter in the book?

Absolutely. And I don't, I'm not a big, like, not to, you know, not to like get into philosophy or anything. I'm not a big believer in fate. Like I think, you know, things happen, right? Like, I'm not a big believer in, like, fate. But, like, him telling that story about, he just went to basically go visit his parents. And that's when the house caught fire. And if he had not been there, you know, who knows what would have happened, you know, tragically.

Because he was there, he was able to save his parents. And I know we all very sad about his dog passing away. But imagine that. Like in that scenario. Like he doesn't live. He lives here. We're in Columbus. Like, he lives down here.

He just happened to go visit his parents from this whole thing happened. And, you know, as tragic as it was, like, had he not been there, who knows what would have happened to his mom and dad. So that's just wild, like when you think about that. Yeah. So the story that I heard was, and I heard from third person, not from Coleman himself, so he don't quote me on it, but his mom had cooked dinner for him,

and she accidentally left the stove on. So it was kind of funny, I don't know, not funny, ironic. They're like, maybe the fire wouldn't have started if he wasn't there because you wouldn't have cooked dinner for him. But then he saved him because he was there. So, yeah, I don't know. Maybe a little ironic, I don't know.

Yeah, but the good news is, it seems like he's doing better. You know, I know from everything I was, you know, I try to like, because obviously, like, my job is a journalist. I'm a journalist. I cover things. And, you know, Mark is obviously a big part of the sport for everyone. But, like, when this first happened, I kind of stayed out of it because I have a more personal connection. Like, I consider Mark a friend and, you know, somebody I care about a lot.

So I didn't want to, like, get too deep into that. Once the updates started coming, you know, obviously when he put him out there publicly, I started, you know, helping out with that kind of stuff. But, like, when it first happened, I didn't really want to be a part of it because I was more concerned about. my friend. I wasn't really concerned about, you know, writing a story about it. But I'm happy to, like, put the news out there now that he's doing better and, like, let people know, because you and I are, you especially are much closer, you know what I mean? It's like, you're, you know, you're talking to him regularly and I talk to people close to him. But yeah, I just, I'm just so glad he's doing better. And I have no doubt. We were joking before the podcast and I'm being serious when I say this. Like, I'd be shocked if Coleman's not back in the gym. Something, you're going to show me your gym this week. And Coleman's will be waiting for you at the front door. Like, are you ready to go? Yeah, I can't wait. It's going to be exciting. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the gym tomorrow, but you just don't know with that guy. You know, especially the only question now is because of the pneumonia. I don't know how bad that was. I know they gave him antibiotics. He didn't have to stay in the hospital overnight or anything. But that's the only question now. If that hadn't happened, I'd be very confident he'd be in the gym by tomorrow. because Coleman is that guy. You know, I don't know how bad his eyes are either.

You know, I know he was saying in his video, and I talked to him a little bit, oh, excuse me, I talked to him a little bit last week, one of those days. And, you know, his eyes were pretty burned up, which I guess was probably his worst injury of the whole thing outside of the smoke inhalation. He seems all right with burns, you know, but I feel like Coleman could be half blind and he's coming in the gym still.

He's going to be screaming about carnivore diet and hitting the bag and, you know, be in himself. Yeah, I have no doubt. Well, and I'm sure, you know, once everything calms down, everything's better, we'll get him on the podcast with us. He'll come over the house. We all get together and do a podcast together because that's what Coleman does. We had that one obviously a few months ago where he came in and did it. It was a lot of was a blast, you know, just like that's, you know, you never like that was, that was, that was probably my favorite part about doing a podcast with Coleman for all those years

was you never knew what you were going to get into when Mark Coleman was on the podcast. We heard so many great, we heard so many great stories, but like none of that was planned. Like if people, like, remember that show with you, me, Coleman and our buddy Jeremy Loper, like we used to do the show. We did like no planning. We would just show up, end up doing a two-hour podcast. And I would say about 70% it was driven by Coleman just like saying random shit. And then we would just start talking about it.

It was a blast. Like that was so much fun about doing the podcast with him. Like he just would start telling stories And we would just like riff off of that. Dude, I'm going to keep pushing him. He needs to do his own podcast. I mean, it would blow up. I don't doubt for a second.

He loves to talk anyway. It's like just get it done, bro, sit down. But he's that guy. You know him as well as I do. If you go out with him or you see him at the gym, he doesn't really go out. But you see him at the gym. You see him walking down the street with his dog or something.

He's going to talk your ear off and tell you every story you want to know. Getting them in to sit down and do it, that's a different job. And it took us however long months to get them in last time for the podcast. But once you get them in, it's game over. It's the Coleman show.

Everywhere Coleman goes, it's the Coleman show. Last time I was at your gym, whatever it was a few months ago, when I came up there, I care what we were doing. I went up there and Coleman was there. And I just walked in. I hadn't actually seen

Mark in a little while. I talked to him, but I didn't see him in a while. And he just comes up, gives me a hug. And then he just starts talking to me, just tell me stories out of nowhere. And I'm like, it was like we were in the middle of a conversation, but like I wasn't part of it until then. You know what I was just like? And I was like, that's Coleman.

Like, he's just that dude. Like, it was just funny as hell. Like, we stood there and shit chatter for like 30 minutes of him just like bullshit and just like telling me stories. And that's just Coleman, man. Like you said, like he'll talk your off. So I love it. That was like one of my favorite parts about doing a podcast with.

Like you never like I learned so like we I remember we did that one podcast where I learned that he was part of that Foxcatcher team when that whole movie came out. I had no idea. I thought I knew Coleman pretty well. I had no idea. I thought that was like I thought he was past that and he's like, oh no, I was in Foxcatcher. I lived there and I was like, holy shit. It's funny, dude. I've known Coleman for probably 15, 20 years, but we just got close.

You would hang out all the time since I opened my gym, right? Now I see him all the time, right? and the dude he never ever runs out of stories you know and he doesn't exaggerate the stories he doesn't make shit up like like he's lived that life like he is that guy he has lived that just a like you can't even describe his life bro it is the craziest thing ever yeah it's so funny too because like I feel like we did that podcast for what it was like two and two two and a half years of us doing the podcast pretty consistently week to week And he never ran out of stories, like ever, like never ran out of stories.

And like, there's so many that I know I've probably forgotten about at this point. Some that stick in my head. Some of the ones that I remember is like very vividly. But like that was the great part about it. Like he is a master storyteller. He could just tell you a story. You'll be like sitting there like a little kid in front of a campfire with your hand up. Be like, really?

Tell me more, Mark. Like that's just the way he tells stories. Absolutely. And the funny thing is that every now and then you'll get a repeat. but for the most part like you don't even get a repeat story I've known them for years and I get new stories I'm like wait what do you mean you were there

right like it never ends man but just an amazing guy all around and lived an amazing life and like I said it's going to make a great book and movie one day to this day we still joke with him about the Hammer House punching bag that was a joke we made on the podcast forever ago he had the one punching bag

that used to bring around to the Hammer House and to this day we still joke about the Hammer House punching back. Yeah, man. So many stories with him, bro. He's just asking about Brazil one day. That's the story I know. That's the one of them I've heard on repeat a few times because he's got some

Brazil stories, bro. He loved Brazil. I think the ones I've heard the most were Japan, heard a lot of Japan, and I heard Alabama stories. I've heard Alabama stories a couple of times, a couple different ones down there. Yeah, it's just, like I said, man, like I'm just so happy he's doing well. I mean, like, if you can never imagine anybody being a fucking hero, Mark Coleman's that guy. Like, he will be the guy to fucking run into a burning house to save people and not worry about his own health.

I'm just so happy he's doing well and his family seems like they're doing well. And it's like scary because when you hear about that, you're like, man, that's like, you know, for people, I mean, obviously I think people, most people know, like how dangerous smoke inhalation is. but to hear that and then when you see that original video of him in the hospital when his daughters came and see you hear his lungs like you hear how bad it is and then hear him today sounds like Coleman sounds just like he always sounds like it doesn't sound that different like it's just a miraculous how quickly you can turn it around yeah there's not too many things to make my eyes water up but watching that video man that hit hard you know and especially I wanted to go see Coleman but they only let family immediate family in the high hospital room so I couldn't even go see him you know I wasn't able to talk to him on the phone until after that video so just seeing my friend alive and well you know and then of course the video itself you know it's pretty touching so very happy man and you know I might have shed a tear I don't think so but you know to go back to the old legit manship days I text you that the day when that video came out I was like dude I'd fucking weld up in the eyes a little bit when that

happened. I was like, I'm not going to lie. It made me well up a little bit. I'm like, you know, I don't know if I rolled a tear, but I definitely had some, definitely felt some emotion right there. Yeah, I felt some tickles in the soul that. Well, we're just glad he's doing better, man. We're just so glad he's doing better. Everyone, the outpouring, you know, it's funny. This sport has gotten so big, and it is. Like, and I know you probably made me, saw the story a couple weeks ago, the guy from TKO, Mark Shapiro, who was the president of TKO, said that the UFC has become one of the four major sports now. Like it's no longer baseball, basketball, football, and hockey.

It's now baseball, basketball, football, and MMA. Because he said, when you look at the metrics in terms of business, in terms of ratings, in terms of that kind of stuff, like, he's like, I love the NHL, but the UFC blows the NHL out of the water. And I don't think he's wrong necessarily, because I don't see nearly as much on TV and stuff about the NHL as I do UFC these days. But that's not the conversation I'm getting into. What I'm saying is, it's like, when we first met back in, like, when we first met back in

like years and years ago, like right before you did the ultimate fighter, like that long ago, the sport was still very much a fringe sport. Like it was, you know, you knew everybody. The sport's a lot bigger now. Like, it is still a very, it's a much bigger sport. But when something like this happens, when a tragedy like that happens and, like, you know, it's somebody that we all know and care about, the community kind of rallies together. And that's when you kind of feel like MMA is, it's bigger, but it's still like this small

knit community of people who care. Like, you know, when that happened, like as soon as I started putting out of other, updates on Twitter, like a million people responded just because like they all care about Coleman. And I think that says a lot. I don't, I'm not saying they don't do this in football and other sports, but even though the UFC has gotten so big and it is a massive global sport now, it definitely feels like people rally around in that kind of like small knit community that we always were because I still feel that. Yeah, it's kind of interesting, man. There's great stories occasionally from football, basketball, baseball players.

but there's like a different connection to the world when it's a fighter, right? I don't know exactly what it is, but I mean, we've heard of, you know, a lot of great stories from famous football players, basketball players, whatever, right? But when a fighter does it, I don't know, it hits a little bit differently, you know. Maybe this one obviously is going to hit me a little bit different because it's my friend that I'm close with. But I feel like there's something different in the air about when a fighter does it versus a guy that's on a team. Yeah. Is that just me? No, no, you're right.

And I think, I mean, the reality with fighting also is because it is an individual sport. You get to know, like, I know them because I'm like, I know you got into football recently to your kids and everything. But like part of football, because you play behind the helmet, there's a certain level of anonymity. Like people, I'd say. the average person probably knows what, you know, you probably know what Patrick Mahomes looks like and you know what Joe Burrow looks like. But, you know, the random offensive lineman, outside of him being six foot six and 300 pounds, you wouldn't know him to look at him because they're behind the helmet. Even in basketball, to a certain extent, but as part of a team, there's a little anonymity there, right? Because you're just not there.

When you're fighting, when you're in front of millions of people in a cage, it's you and another guy in there or a girl and a girl, everyone sees you. So you become much more visible. You become much more recognizable for those kind of things because you don't really have that other, especially in team sports. I'd say boxing is somewhat similar. But I think boxing is like, boxing still feels a little weirdly older in a way. Like it still feels like they kind of cling to that like newspapers versus online. But I mean, it is.

But I think I'd imagine the average person knows what Floyd Mayweather looks like, knows what Canelo looks like, things like that. But MMA feels like that's it's almost like. a more personal connection because you see them and it's an individual in there. Like, you know, I know it's a team, but when you step in that cage, it's you and one other person and that's it.

And to add to that, one of the things that has made the UFC, the monster that it is, one of the things I think they have done an amazing job of is magnifying the personalities of their athletes where, you know, you know, a lot of these

guys, I'm trying to think of an example, but, you know, there's guys that aren't really like Mike Perry for instance right like he's got a crazy personality you know I think he's an awesome guy he's funny and everything but like he wasn't a champion you know the guy in boxing that was at the same level that Mike Perry fought in the UFC like no one would ever have even heard of the guy like we probably couldn't even name him off top of our head right now but but you know now he's a I mean I guess he's bare-knuckle champion now so maybe not the best example but there's you know there's these examples of guys like that where just their

personality shines through so everybody knows them and loves them. Absolutely. Yeah, and I think that's part of the sport. You're absolutely right because when you think about it, like you don't, like being a champion matters, but just being out in the public matters, you know, people like people being out there and it's like seeing you and recognize you. And you can, I think Mike Perry is a good example of that because while he is a

BKFC guy now, but everyone kind of knew who he was before. Like we all do. You say Mike Perry. Like everyone's like, oh yeah, Mike Perry. Like you could say that, you know, and there's guys, I mean, you can say about Colbynese. Covington for a whole other realm of reasons. He's never been a champion, but everyone knows him.

Like, everyone knows Colby Covington. Right. For better or worse, everyone knows Colby Covington. You know what I mean? So, like that, you're absolutely right. Like, there's definitely that you feel that, um, that, like, do you feel that attention gets paid and people know who they are, even if they're not, you know, superstar Connor McGregor level?

I mean, you could even, I'd use myself in as an example. I mean, if I had the career in boxing, you know, with the record and everything, you know, you know, that I'd do it in May. Like no one would know or care who the fuck I am. But because I did it in the UFC and, you know, did some cool things, you know, had some great fights. You know, they remember those great fights. There's tons of great boxing fights that no one even cares about or remembers. And of course, when you're on, you know, a football team or a basketball team, you're just one of many anyway.

So it's like, you know, there's a couple guys that stick out on every team. And then most of the rest of the guys, you couldn't point them out at the mall. Yeah, and if I had one, like, kind of like a little bit of a sad thing about the sport now, and it's not because it's bad, like, it's not because people aren't getting opportunities. I will say sometimes when we get to the prelims of some of these, like, fight night cars, I could, like, there was a time a decade ago, I knew every, you could have probably give me a list. I could have told you at least one thing about every single fighter on the O.C. roster.

Maybe not a lot, but I can tell you a little bit, like who they last fought, where they're from, what gym they train has, something. there are so many guys in the roster now where I'm just like you could have put you could put a gun to my head and I couldn't pick him up a lineup now that changes as you get you know as you get a little bit more you know even to that level like you're talking about like the Mike Perry's and things like that of the world where you're just like just a good fighter and I think it's unrealistic to expect every single person to know everybody's ever fall in the contender series but like that's how sport that's that's the crazy part about sport now is like we I cover fights sometimes on like a Saturday night and I'm like I have no idea of this. guy is. Like I don't remember ever seeing him fight before. And it's almost like it's kind of weird because like I said a decade ago, I could have told you something about every single fighter on the roster. But now we're like 700 deep. And that's just much bigger than it used to be. I would say less than a decade ago. I remember when we used to do the podcast and we break down the fights. We would start with the prelims because there were guys that we knew. There were fights

that we cared about on the prelims. And nowadays it's like, you know, not even saying it's necessarily a bad thing but it's like we don't really give a shit you know it's like win a few prelim fights or like these apex cards there was one last weekend i didn't even know it was happening until uh i think like some people texted me about oh you know this guy did this or something and i was like dude i didn't even know there was fights tonight i'm i'm just relaxing a home watching a fucking movie yeah it's weird like but i you know what and we're like i know dana dana always says like you know you know if you don't like it don't watch it and that's kind of the day and attitude, but in a weird way, like, people have to realize, like, there's so much

of the sport out there now that, like, A, it's impossible to watch everything. And B, I don't even think the UFC expects you to watch everything. Like, they're going through their contractual obligation to fulfill fight cards. And as a fight fan, like, I cover it as a living. So, yes, I do to, I watch every UFC card. Like, that's just part of my job. But, like, I've had a couple of Saturdays where the cars were just not great. And part of our cycling of our work at MMA fighting, like I'd have a Saturday night off. And occasionally I try to tune in and watch the main event

just because I know we're probably going to talk about it on the podcast or, you know, whatever. But like even I get, you got to get away from it. Like, you just can't. Like, there's just too much out there. Like, this week we got, like, there's a UFC event. There's a Belator event. There's like just, you know, it's just you can't get inundated with it.

And, you know, you're not, I just, I don't think the UFC expects you to watch every single fight on every single card. It's just not realistic to have a life outside of sports and still like, you know, because that's why I tell people all the time, like, oh, man, you're so lucky you work in the sport and you get to watch all the time. I said, I love MMA. I do. I absolutely adore MMA.

But I need to escape it too, man. Like, I can't sit here and just watch fights 24 hours a day. My fucking brain will turn to mush. Like, I got to do something else. Yeah, well, I used to be that way for a long time. I didn't watch anything except for fighting and didn't think about it. anything except for fighting and but I you know like we were just kind of talking about like it was a different purity to it back in the day man it was so such a small nick community

and there was so much respect to be had and it's it's not like I necessarily don't have that same respect for the guys today but it's like the barrier of entry is so much lower now back when I was coming up like UFC was a dream you know I mean it was like the fucking you know it was the Super Bowl and it was like, dude, you get to the UFC, you're the fucking man. And now, you know, it's not that it's anything small. It's not a small feat. But, like, if you're an athlete and you get into MMA and you train hard, you're going to have a chance at the UFC.

You know, when I was coming up, like, the chance to get to the UFC was a big thing. You know, like, everybody gets the chance now. Yeah, there's so much, you're absolutely right. The bar to entry is so much. lower now and I don't think it's I don't think that the people are less talented but I think that just getting into it is differently back in the day if you've gotten to UFC that was an accomplishment now it's like staying in the UFC as an accomplishment because a lot of guys come in and they're gone in three fights they're gone in four fights like that's just the nature of the beast now

because they have so many cards to fill so you're going to get a roster spot because they get a lot of guys coming out to contender series and I look them up afterwards and like they're like four fights you couldn't get in the UFC with four fights back in the day like that wasn't No, that's a fact. And that's why nowadays, I don't even know what to tell them up-and-coming fighters because they're like, yeah, I want to get, you know, four or five fights and they get to the UFC. And I'm like, I don't know, a couple years ago, I'm like, dude, don't be a fucking idiot. Now I'm kind of like, yeah, you might be able to do that, bro.

So I don't really know what tell me. I'm like, you also, you're not going to be ready in four or five fights. Of course, you know, you have those anomalies, there's guys that are. But, yeah, it's such a different way. world. And, you know, the funniest part about the whole thing to me is this is what we, we do complain about it, right? You know, we're like, God, why is there in so many fights? You know, it was, we used to be so awesome when we'd be looking forward to Shamrock Ortiz by, you know, in three months. And that's all we're thinking about, right? And this is what we dreamed of. So I

try not to complain about it, you know, because you probably back on the underground forum back in the day right oh yeah absolutely we'd be like man this sport i hope he gets mainstream one day or something right and then i think fox when they got on fox that was the big jump right okay we're we're going from the you know from i don't know i guess kind of the underground not really underground but you know we're going from the bottom to the top and now it's on fucking it's everywhere esPN it's been on a bc yeah it's what we dreamed of it's what we wanted we wanted we wanted fights every weekend. We're like, why we have to wait another fucking two months to watch this fight.

Yeah, now we got it. Well, you know, the funny thing is, like, last night's card, I'm not going to sit here and like pretend that everyone really cared about, you know, I'm not in disrespect Taito I Vasa and Marcheen Tibera, but I don't think a lot of people are like, oh yeah, that's the one I was really looking forward to. But the way I've been doing it, the way I've been

kind of like justifying a little bit has been like, all these cars are walking so UFC 300 could run. Because that's what we're waiting for. We're a month away. We're less than a month away from USC 300, where that is the most stacked card ever. And you can complain about the main event. I get it. But we already talked about it on the show. There was no main event they were going to give you unless it was Khabib against George St. Pierre or Brock Leser coming back against John Jones that you were going to be

satisfied. This card is insanely stacked. It's amazing. The opening fight, the first fight on the fricking prelims is Cody Garbrand and Devinson Figurato. So all I'm saying is, is like we got to get through some of these lesser, not great cards, but it's all going to lead to something better. and that's going to be UFC 300. And like that night, dude, every fight fan is going to be on the tipy toes watching that shit. And there's not a fighter on 300. I don't know.

I can tell you something about every single fighter on 300 for sure. Yeah, it's been a while since we've had a card like that, right? But, yeah, and it is a significant card. Like you said, the main event, yeah, some people are going to complain about it. I think that might actually end up being a standout fight. Of course, it doesn't have the name value of a GSP, it could beeb and all that but bro that fight that might be a real fucking war man

jamal hill is a savage Alex Pereira we all know he's a savage right like we know where he's capable of do it but I think a lot of people might be counting Jamal Hill out man he is a fucking warrior through and through and he yeah boy I think it could be a really good fight I think it could be better I think Jamal Hill might surprise some people I haven't We do our rankings at MMA fighting, and generally speaking, like, you know, there's no, like, wall, barrier or entry of saying, like, your number one fighter in a division has to be a champion in a certain organization, which, again, by and large, yes, it is UFC champions. But, like, my number one Bantamway right now, I have it as, I believe it's, I have it as Marab and then Patchy Mix, and then I have Sean O'Malley. Sure. Not because I don't like Sean O'Malley.

I just think what Marab and patchy mix have done recently better. But generally speaking, my point is, most of the champions. champions I have ranked are the UFC champions because it's the biggest, the best. We all know that. But my number one light heavyweight, and it's not disrespectful to Alex Pereer, it's not at all. But my number one light heavyweight is still Jamal Hill. Because, yes, he did tear his Achilles and he's been out for a little while. But like when you see what he did to Glover, you see the run he had been on up to that point.

I like Alex. And I think Alex is a monster and doing what he did to Jan Belhovic, which was a real close fight, and then obviously knocking out Yiri, super impressive, but I still have Jamal slightly ahead of him. So I think anyone counting out Jamal Hill is nuts. That guy has so much power. And he is a legit, listen, I'm not saying Alex Perrin is not a legit light heavyweight. I'm sure he has grown into that. But like, Jamal Hill is a real.

Like, that's a guy who is cutting to get to 205 pounds. Like he is a guy walking out probably like 2.30, 240, cut into 205. Hits like a truck. Look what he did to Glover, man, over five rounds. Like, credit to Glover sticking around. But like, he beat the living hell out of Glover to Cher. And like, Glover to Cher is one of the toughest. dudes this sport's ever known and he just beat him from stem to stern from one side of the octagon

to the other that dude is legit so don't count out jamal hill like i understand alice is a little bit more of a star and he's got a little bit more juice behind him right now but do not count out jamaul hill man i will i will not be shocked in the least if this fight ends with a jamaul hill knockout in the first round i'm not saying that's what's going to happen i'm saying like don't be shocked if jamaal cracks him with a right hand and puts him down and out in the first round Well, Jamal is such a great athlete. And, dude, how many times have we seen these great kickboxers come in to MMA? Of course, Alex has already proven.

Like, he knows how to fight MMA, you know, but we've seen it before, right? They're still human as everyone else. Like, they don't have some fucking superpower, you know, that Jamal Hill can't, you know, meet him in the middle of the octagon and kickbox with him, right? Jamal is a supreme athlete and this guy is going to, I think he's going to stand with them. And I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up knocking out Alex, but I might be a little surprised because I don't think he's going to.

But like you said, he's got the power. He's got the tools to do it. You know, don't count him out even if it stays on the feet. We've seen these kickboxers do it a million times. Yeah, I mean, look at one of my all-time, one of my all-time favorite fighters. who I, if you would ask me this when he came in the UFC, this guy's going to be a champion inside six months or a year,

was Mirko Krocop. I thought that guy was the nastest. And then Gabriel Gonzaga, a freaking Brazilian jiu-jitsu guy, head kicks him and knocks him out in his second or third fight, whatever it was in the UFC. Like, it's a different world. That's what we always talk about like boxers,

other people coming in the sport. Like, that's why, like, you can be the highest level jiu-git-s guy. You can be a world-champo guy coming to the MMA. When you start getting punched, when you're not, like when you're going for their, you know, when you're going for a leglock, and they're hammer-fisting you in the head.

It's a whole other world. Like, yes, you are, you know, wrestlers, guys from other sports are better suited to learn MMA. Like, there's a reason why Bo Nicol is who he is, because he's an incredible wrestler, one of the best wrestlers we're ever going to see in the sport. But just like everything, like, if you would have told me, I've said this on the show before,

like when Ed Ruth made his move in MMA, I would have, I would have bet money on Ed Ruth being a beast. And he, I'm not saying he's not good, but, like, he never quite got to that level where he was just like unstoppable monster. And I would have said that guy's guaranteed just because I knew how good he was in wrestling. So this sport, like, it'll fuck with you.

You'll think, like, Alex Pereer is the greatest strike you've ever seen. Then he'll get clipped by right hand by Jamal Hill and go down. And you'd be like, oh, shit. I didn't see that coming. Go Kansaki was one of the best examples ever, right? I mean, this guy, didn't he get knocked out, right? I think he got... Kulow Roundtree, knocked him out, a cold.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, who thought Go Konsaki would not kick box the fuck out of every single person in the UFC. Like you said, Crow Cop was a great example too. He got knocked out by a kickboxer, you know, or by a jiu jitsu guy. You know, we've seen it time and time again. And here's what I think a lot of people forget is when you get to a certain level in a specific sport, wrestling, kickboxing, these are, you know, single-discipline sports.

We're at a multidiscipline sport. When you get to a certain level in these sports, most of the time, when you're, the reason that you're able to reach that level is because you're genetically gifted for that sport that doesn't always carry over to a multi-disciplined sport like MMA if that makes sense but it'd be like Michael Phelps is genetically built for swimming he may not end up being the best runner or cyclists or triathlete for that matter right like Ed Ruth for instance I think is extremely genetically gifted for wrestling. But when you start throwing,

Phil Davis was another great example, right? Like extremely genetically gifted for wrestling. But when it came to MMA, there's so many other parts, and it's hard for certain guys because their body is built for one thing. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two.

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Absolutely. You're 100% right. I think Bo Nickel has all the tools to be a UFC champion. His wrestling is unbelievable. But the reason why I have a little bit more faith in Bo Nichols is because I've seen his striking. He has knocked people out on the feet. his coaches. I talked to Mike Brown a lot. They have a lot of faith in him. And he's a little different. And I

said this years ago, you remember when Kyle Snyder, the gold medalist and Ohio State guy, he had said briefly, like, he was contemplating going into M.A. He eventually gave that up. He's just going to stick with wrestling. But at the time, and I still stand by this. Day one, he would be one of the best prospects ever coming to sport because he is such a freak

athlete and such an incredible offensive wrestler. That being said, there's still no guarantees. Like, he gets punched. Like, you get punched. You get it like look what happened with uh jailton almeida and curtis blades jelton made a shoot in curtis and i just talked to curtis a couple days ago and i said did you know you could generate that much power with hammer fist and he's like honestly i was just trying to get him off me i wasn't trying to knock him out i was just like hitting him to make him give up the position and i knocked

him out so that's how fucking weird this sport is like that's he wasn't even trying to knock out jelton um made it he was just hammer fisting him to make him give up the takedown and then he knocked him out right right I'll tell you what when your Romero came into this sport I thought no one had a chance against him I was like dude it's over

for MMA like he'll win heavy weight he'll win light heavy like it's over like this is going to be the most dominant champion ever and we're proven wrong I remember when he I don't remember if he lost before but I remember watching him fight Robert Whitaker

and that's when everything changed I was like dude Robert Whitaker didn't even wrestle yeah he's from Australia. I don't even know if they have wrestling. And Yoll could not get him down. And obviously, you know, couldn't strike with them. You know, and there are exceptions. Like I think Bo Nicol may very

well be an exception. We got Daniel Cormier, right? He's in exception. You know, there's tons of those, too. And it's not like Yoll didn't get to a very high level, but, you know, my point still stands, right? Like, just because you excelled in one sport doesn't mean it's going to

cross over every time. and there's so many factors to it, right? There's genetic factors. There's the discipline factor. A lot of these wrestlers, you know, they're just tired of the fucking grind, too. And I think, you know, they've been grinding for so hard for so long. Wrestling's way harder than MMA. Then they come over to MMA, and it's almost relaxing to them, you know, like throw punches

and kicks. They're like, dude, and then they don't want to go back to that grind. They don't want to go back to the wrestling. And then they forget, like, oh, that's what got you to such a high level of wrestling. Yeah. Who do we call the great? And if you've been if you've been kickboxing like go Konasaki's been kickboxing since he was a kid right and now he's got to all the sudden learn all these other arts right. It's just taken away from the kickboxing now. Yeah. I mean who's who is who do we call the girl at least in my opinion the greatest fighter of all time I call John Jones. John Jones was a

community college wrestler. Right. Never never won an NCAA title. Did he wrestle? I only think you ever to wrestle Division 1. He wrestled Iowa Community College, which was a great community college. That's where Kane Velasquez and Colby Coventon, like a lot of guys went before they graduated to bigger schools. But John Jones was a community college wrestler, basically, like, just that's what he was. Never went to that level. And then he gets to M.

He throws Daniel Cormier around in their first fight, like takes him down, throws him around. He's, in my opinion, the greatest fighter of all time. And you could argue me when the greatest wrestlers in MMA of all time. Like he's like when he takes people down, he hurts them on the ground. He never did that. Like he was a community college and then decided to become a fighter. You know?

So there's just no, like that's the crazy thing about this sport. Like look at a, look at a guy like Francis Ngano. Francis Ngano comes over. He doesn't know a thing about anything. He wants to be a boxer. And then he goes to a gym that just happens to be at an MMA gym, takes it up. A few years later, best heavyweight in sport. You just don't know.

Like there's no guarantees. Like I can sit here and tell you right now. Like I think Bo Nickel is a future champion. And I truly do believe that. But who knows? Like he's fighting Cody Brundage. Cody Brunge just knocked out his last phone with a slam. Maybe Bo goes for a take-down.

He picks him and fucking power bombs him. You just don't know. Right. Yeah, it's crazy, man. That's what's great about this sport. You really don't know. But there's no doubt about it, though, you know, coming from wrestling or high-level kickboxing,

it certainly gives you a huge head start. And, you know, what I think wrestling, where it probably gives it the biggest head start. For one, you know, athleticism and knowing how to grapple, all that. That's all great. But one of the things that people don't talk about enough is the amount of competition these guys go through, particularly these NCAA Division I guys that go to the nationals.

Like, that's every bit as intense, you know, for a young mind, you know, for a kid that worked his whole life to get to that level. And then they're out there, you know, a lot of America's watching. You know, it's not basketball or football, but there's a, you know, the Big Ten networks on them. The stadium is filled. You know, this means everything to them. They've been through these things before. They've competed hundreds of times.

They know how to compete. They know how to get prepared. They know how to get mentally ready. Most of them have very good college mentors. You know, the coaches are very good mentors. They've been through, you know, strength and conditioning. So I think that. there's like so many advantages on top of even just the actual skills that they have.

And you go into a wrestling meeting. I know you've been to some of the Ohio State and I have as well. Like when you go to a wrestling meeting, it's like an intense rivalry. Dude, those places get rowdy. Like they get real. Like, I say it a lot to a lot of the wrestlers that come into sport. Like they are more prepared for that aspect of it because, like, you know, some people do. Like, you said it.

Like when you step in the cage, you don't really, like nothing really kind of affects you. But that's not everybody. Some people do get affected. The crowd booze you or whatever the case may be. Like some people do get affected by that, especially if you've never had that happen before. Like you never walked in the arena and had fucking 13,000 people say, fuck you. You've never had that before. Like, it's a weird experience.

But wrestlers, dude, I've been to Big Ten wrestling meets and Ancena, man. It's a raucous crowd, man. Like, it's a wild crowd. Watch the NCAA wrestling championships. Like, people go nuts. So, like, that, that, and just that pressure. Like, I know Kayla Harrison talks about this, like, being in the Olympic level, like, being at that level. being at that level of pressure, that's a weapon.

Like, having gone through that, that is absolutely a weapon. If you are that mentally and physically strong to get to the level of being an Olympic gold medalist, I'm not, again, I mean, Henry Sudo is another great example. Like, you think of that guy, well, he's not been undefeated. Like, it's not like he's just gone undefeited as a career. But he's a step ahead of the next guy behind him, I guess, is what I'm getting at. Like, does that mean Henry Souto is guaranteed to become a champion? No, but he's got a bit of a head start.

not only before the wrestling, but also because he's been to the Olympics, he's won gold, he knows that pressure. Because when you're in the Olympics, like, I'm not saying it's hard. I'm not saying it's harder than winning a title in the UFC, but like, do you, I mean, you're like, you have one time and you have, you know, basically six minutes or whatever to tell you, is it nine minutes for a match? Like, you have that much time to win a gold medal, and if you miss one point, you're gone. Like, that's it. That's it.

And you wait four more years to even have a chance at it again. And you know as well as I do. wrestlers typically have about an eight to 12 year period where they can win. Like you will occasionally get around that, but that's about the window. You have about eight to 12 years. That's basically two or three Olympic cycles to win titles. That's exactly right. You know, that's a whole other level.

You said it well. You said, look, it may not constitute, you know, a direct path to victory, but it gives you a huge step ahead. And that's one of the things, you know, I have fighters in my gym all the time. time, you know, that are young fighters. And the first thing I tell them, I get asked this question, probably more than any other question. We could probably dive deep into it one day. People ask me, what's your advice for a young fighter? And one of the things, I have a whole list of things that I say because I've been asked this question 10 gazillion times now. But one of the things, you know, if you're really serious about it, is you need to get the experience of competition. And

And you need to know how to compete. Because if you go try, the weirdest thing I see all the time is these guys come in and they want to fight straight to MMA. They've never done boxing or kickboxing or Jiu-Jitsu. And they're like, I want to fight M.A. It's like, so you want your first competition to be the most dangerous one with the highest level of consequence. It doesn't make any sense, right? Like you don't know how to compete. And that, you know, it took me a long time to learn how to do that.

Like, I didn't come from that background either. So, you know, I just threw myself in the fire. So I think that's something for young people to think about. And that goes, I think, with a lot of things in life, you know, is like, like, if you want to start a business, like, you got to know how to be prepared for a business meeting. You know, if you want to start a podcast, like, you have to know how to get your mind ready for a podcast. You know, it's all mindset stuff. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like I said, some of these guys and girls are better prepared because they've been through it.

the Kayla Harrisons and the Henry Zuda's the world. But again, even that, there's no guarantee. Like, they have a step ahead of you, but there's still no guarantees that's going to take you to Jim. Yeah, that's what this sport is. Like, the weirdest, the weirdest, freakyest things can happen, and you lose a fight, and that's just the nature of this beast. It is.

And even with the step ahead, sometimes, you know, people, it can also have another side, too, where you could be so comfortable on a wrestling match, in front of thousands of people. But you've done that so much that now when you step off at wrestling mat and you go into something else like an octagon, now that's out of your comfort zone

because you're so accustomed to the one thing that you've done. Yeah, I'll tell you, like, just for personal experience, certainly I'm not a fighter, but when I used to train more regularly back in the day when I lived in Cincinnati, I trained pretty regularly and I was pretty good at grappling. If only there were a gym around. Well, hold on, let me tell you the story first.

So I was training and I was getting, I wouldn't say I was getting, I'm going to say I was getting good, but I was, I was having fun. I was training regularly and people were around, they see it. And I got offered a fight at one point in Cincinnati, local promoters, like we got a guy, like, you're probably going to beat him. Like it's, you know, we just want, like, we need a name, we want to get some out there and you want to fight. And I was like, no, I was like, I just know me. I'm not into it. Like I'm just not, that's just, I know me. Like I've been, I've played sports my life throughout my whole life.

I love the sport, but I also respected enough to know that it's just not me. Like, I, that's one of the reasons why I hold fighters in such high regard is because it does take a lot just to get out there. You know, you talked about it, guys who literally left the arena rather than walk out and fight a guy that night. Like, I know me, I'm not saying I would leave the arena, but like, I respect the sport enough to know that I'm just not built that way. I love it and I enjoyed practicing it and training it and being around it, but I just

know me. Like, I'm just, that's just not who I am. Like, I just know I'm not built for that. And I'm, like, I'm willing to admit that about myself. I'm willing to admit I couldn't do what you do. I'm not even on your level, man. I'm just saying, like, in any level. Like, I know I'm not built for that.

But at least I was honest enough of myself to tell it. And you know as well as I do. Some guys step out there that aren't honest enough, and they do step out there. End up going horribly wrong for them. That's why I'm just like, yeah, you know, I thought about it for a day. He's like, take a day to think about it. I was like, you know what? I love the sport.

I love practicing it. just not my thing. Like I just don't want to get out and do it. You know, it's just not my thing. And I, I'm honest enough to admit that. Well, that's an important thing right there. And I respect that you're honest enough to admit that because that's one of the other first things. I kind of have a whole step-by-step thing, you know, when I'm talking with a new fighter. And one of the steps is know your damn self, because for one, you got to know at first, like what you're saying, like this is, First, this isn't for everybody. But second, whoever you are is going to get exposed when you do go out there, right?

You happen to already know yourself. He said, I don't need to be exposed. I know, right? And I'm openly admitting it. But you're going to get exposed at some point. And if you're not comfortable with that exposure, if you're insecure about that, you're going to have a major problem at some point. Yeah.

It's like I said, man. It separates the men from the boys real fucking quick. And I knew it. I just like, I knew it. I was like, I'm not that dude. Like I, that's one of the reasons why even, even, you know, we were talking about, like, the bar for entry is so much lower than it is now. And, you know, that some people, as you say, like, you've seen people go out there who are just like,

they're not, they're not doing it. They're dumb. They shouldn't be doing it, but they're doing it. Right. But even that, like, I just, I know me. And, like, I was honest enough of myself to say, I'm just not built that way. Like, I just, you know, like, when I, like, I know the nerves when I, like, when I watch people I know fight like it's it's like when I well I'll never forget um I was in San Diego

at Comic Con when you had your fight with Tim Means on that card with Connor and Chad Mendez and all that and I still work the event because like my boss was like dude you're on vacation take then I was like no I want to watch because Matt's fighting and I was like I want to I want to be there it's a big card I was like I'll still I'll still help out like I'll leave after the after Connor fights I'll leave I won't do post fight stuff but I'll stick around for the main card he's like all right you sure I was like yeah like knowing you as a friend like it's fucking nerve-wracking when you fight dude like it's fucking nerve-wracking to watch you fight like I know how good you are I know you're a

fucking badass but that's still the sport you know what I mean like even now I'm sitting in my hotel room watching on fucking TV on my computer I'm still sitting there fucking nervous like it's just it's a nerve-racket I was there when you fought eric sylva in Cincinnati he walked out a binge seven-folds playing fucking crowds going nuts it's a nerve-wracking experience man like it's so like I couldn't even imagine imagine myself being in that situation. Like, it's nerve-wracking to watch my friends do it. It's so funny because I coach and help a lot of friends.

And it's a different nerve when you're on the outside. Some people say, I get more nervous for my friends than when I fight. Well, for one, because you're completely out of control of the situation. But for two, it's a different type of nerve. That's what it is. It's not you're more or less nervous. It's just different because you're out of control of the best. situation when it when it's on you that nervous energy you know fires you up right like it brings you up

to another level like you feel the energy from your fucking toes to your head right and you're ready to go do what you got to do and and you know at least for me i accept like you know this might be it right like i i might not walk out of there tonight right like this could be the last moment in my life right here and but you know other people you know feel different ways about Some people get more or less nervous. I always say, like, if you ain't getting nervous, it's because you're either dumb or you're lying to me, right? You might just be a really dumb person

because you should get nervous. And then the only other reason you wouldn't get nervous is if you don't care. Yeah. A lot of people ask me about the nerves. Like, yeah, do you get nervous after all these years? Like, I did a jihitsu tournament. I tore my ACL a few years back,

and I wanted to do a jihitsu tournament just to, you know, go against some new people and feel it. I was when I first opened my gym, wanted to test out my ACL a little bit, getting to a competition. And I got nervous. And everybody was like, dude,

what do you mean you get nervous? Like, you fight in front of, you know, this is a small high school gymnasium competition. And I said, well, I get nervous because I care, bro.

Like, I still, you know what I mean? Like, I still want to fucking prove myself, right? Yeah, I mean, you've been doing this for how many years

and I'm sure there's still like every, every fight's a little different the way you feel. Like you said that one time, you were talking like, Like you had that one where you're in the back, like, what was it the story telling me about the, you're in the back? You're in the back. You're like, what the fuck am I doing? Well, that, to be fair, that wasn't from nerves. That was probably like less nervous than ever before, actually.

I just didn't feel like being there. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Every fight's different. The way you feel is like, you know, like it's not like there's not like one general thing. You just step into and like every fight's the same. Like, every fight's different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Yeah. It can be different. I'd say overall it's pretty well the same. You know, that one was later in my career and I was just not, you know, just not feeling it, you know. Like, I think the big thing is because it was like co-main event. It was like 1130 at night. I usually go to bed like 9 or 10 o'clock. I'm like, God, I just want to go to sleep, man.

It's a hard weight cut, different things like that. But yeah, every fight has, you know, something unique about it. Right. There's something every, it's like a tattoo, right? Where like, you know, you remember where you got that tattoo. You remember what you were doing, what was going on in your life. And the same with camps and fights. Like you remember all these little details that it's great memories, man, great memories. Yeah, yeah, everything's good. Yeah, I got a lot of tattoos. I know that. I can tell you every single tattoo I ever got in every single session I got the tattoo. You're absolutely right. Yeah, it's like I said, but that's what I said. I know. And as we go back to our. subject talking about people built for this like you know again you can be the best prospect of the world does not guarantee you anything and you know like I said George St. Pierre same kind of thing martial artist as a kid but wasn't like it wasn't like he was this multi-time you know karate champion whatever like he became that John Jones name kind of thing like there's no guarantee just

because you're a you know an Olympic level wrestler that you're going to come in and just become a champion in MMA you have a you have a pedigree and you have a certain level of experience ahead of your opponents but you know jolton al-maida found that out real hard against curtis blade you get a couple hammer fists the side of your head fights over like there's just no guarantees like do i think bo-nickle is going to probably wreck cody brund to gosc 300 yeah i mean if i'm being honest i don't think that's going to be a super competitive fight but you know stranger things have fucking happened that's a fact and uh you know bo nico has him fighting by as tough as kodi brunt they're building them up the right way right i mean they're putting them on

for a reason. But, you know, we don't, you never know if a guy's get to live up to the hype. You just don't know, you know. But Bo Nickel just has that X factor, right? He could take anybody in that division down. But we would have said the same thing about Cormier, right? And then he couldn't take down John Jones.

But we don't have a John Jones in 185. So, yeah, he's probably going to get the job done. But, you know, what I fear, I think what we all probably fear with Bo Nickel is he starts loving the striking a little too much. I see these wrestlers do it all the time. And again, they've wrestled for so long.

It's such a hard sport. Your body's beat to hell. They've been through the grind. And then they find out striking. And for one, striking is fun, right? Like it's just a, at least for me. I mean, most people, I think it's just a fun or fucking thing to do. But it's easier on you.

It's so much easier on your body. Like, even if you're getting hit and kicked and shit, like it's so much easier to take a punch to the head than getting your back twisted up on the ground. I talked to Ben Rothwell when he went to BKFC and he's like the reason why he knows, because he's in his 40s now, he's like, the reason I know I can go for a few more years

is because I'm not doing MMA. Because he's training, you know, he's just training striking now. He doesn't have to train. Like, he still trains occasionally, but he's like, MMA fucks your body up. Like, it will tear your body up. just doing it every day, just training it every day.

And so, like, just going into striking, just boxing or whatever the case would be. Like, it's so much easier on your body. And you're absolutely right. Like, I had that conversation with Ryan Bader years ago when he got a couple knockouts. And then suddenly he was trying to knock everybody out. And then he got Glover Tashara. And Glover knocked him out in two minutes. And I remember talking to him about it.

And he's like, yeah, I fell just too in love with the hands and kind of forgot what got me to the race. So you're right. Like, Bo Nicol, all the pedigree is there. But, you know, don't forget what got you did. And I'm curious, Matt, because I put out a tweet last night, they put out the main card for 300. Bo Nickel is opening the main card. Originally, it was the second fight of the main card. Now he's the opening fight of the main card ahead of Charles and Armin and then the rest of the fights.

I've seen so many people pissed off the Bo Nichols on the main card of USC 300. Now, you always had a different opinion about where you're at in the car. And I actually used your story when I interviewed Curtis Blades before his fight. And I said, you're the main prelim. I said, are you, like, bummed about that? Are you upset about that? And I said, I use your story. We were talking about, like, I prefer certain spots of the card because you know where you're going to be fighting.

Like, you know what time relative you're going to be fighting. Otherwise, you may not know. And Curtis is like, yeah, he's like, I don't care. He's like, I get paid the same. What do I care of him in the main car of the prelims? And like, to your story, he's like, yeah, now I know I'm, it's a pay-per-view. So he knows he's going to walk out at 9.30. They walk you out at a half hour before the pay-per-view.

You know you're going to go out there at that time. So you can warm up and get ready. Everything's on time. Do you have a problem with Bo Nickel being on the main card? Of course not. I mean, Bo Nickel, he's going to be a prospect, right? We've been talking about the whole time. Like, we think he's going to be the next big thing too.

Why not put him on the main card? 100%. But where I would disagree with Curtis Blades a little bit there is, yeah, we get paid the same. But the pay that we get as a fighter isn't what is going to pay. your bills when you're 50 years old. You know, that's going to be, you know, Sean Shelby told me one time. He said, the UFC doesn't build your brand.

We magnify your brand. That's what we do. Like, whoever you are, we're going to magnify that. And everybody's going to get exposure to it. And that's how you can build a brand. And getting on the main card builds a brand better. So when you talk about, you know, okay, I'm getting paid the same on the main or the prelim. It's like, you know, 10 years down the road, that might have made a difference.

So. Yeah. Yeah. But I think I think to the whole bone nickel of it all, it's like, you know, yes. Yeah, I got off the subject. No, no, no, no. But, you know, you're right. You're right. But I think the bone nickel of it all, like I also said this.

I said, you know, you got to remember a couple things here. One, you got three fights on the main card that are five round five. You've got two title fights. You've got the BMF title fight. That's a five-round fight too. And then you got Armin and Charles Olivera. You might need one fight that you're betting on that's going to end early. And Bo Nichols has yet to have a fight go past three minutes.

Now, I'm not saying Cody Brunge can't be the guy. Cody Brunner is just tougher. Absolutely, I agree with that. But, you know, if you're betting on a fight that would end early, of all the fights on 300, you'd probably bet on that one, right? Like, that's the only fight that seems like it's a little bit more lopsided in terms of, like, the odds. because every other fight on that card could I mean I'm not saying this is going to happen

I think we're going to have some pretty sick fights and some sick finishes but that's what happens at this level of the game like you're going to get decisions you're going to get longer fights because guys are that good that's the one fight on the entire car where you're like well if I need to tie

if I need to save time that's the one I'm betting on that would end before three rounds and also Bose a future star like they're trying to give him an opportunity on a big massive card like this because they want to build him as a future star.

Everyone is betting and banking on Bo Nickel being a champion one day. I've said it early on. I think he's going to be a champion. Now, again, just like the conversation we just had, there's no guarantees. But that card's stacked. And everybody on that card, with the exception to maybe Kayla Harrison who's making her debut, but, you know, she's been on big cards. She's well known.

Everyone on that undercard has had those opportunities. Like, every single person on those undercards has been a main event of a pay-per-view or a co-main event of a pay-per-view or main-evented multiple fight night cards even like a Jim Miller like so this is Bo Nichols first real I mean yes he did get to fight on a pay-per-view before but not at this level

so like this is like his chance and he's not like he's on the main event they're not putting him over champions or anything he's opening the main card like I think people are spending way too much time thinking about this like how it's like disrespectful to people underneath them I say no they've been there like they know like Holly Holmes headlined

how many cards? Like, I don't think she's going to be pissed that she's the opening fight, the second fight on the prelims versus the main card opener. She's already established her brand. To your point, Bo's still building his brand. Well, you know, I've never watched Cody Brundage fight,

but he seems to be the forgotten person all of this. If he can go in there and get a win or even, you know, make it really close, I don't know how much that helps him. He needs a win. But he could be the star of the show now. Yeah. Or, you know, kind of the dark horse in this entire conversation, this entire card.

He could go in there, you know, pull off a big upset, you know, could do some big things for him too. So he's kind of in a position to really do some cool things, right? Because now he gets on the main card, not because of what he did, but because, you know, partially because of what he did, right? He's shown that he's tough enough to give Bo Nicol a great challenge. So, you know, partially that. But, you know, he's on the main card because he's fighting bow nickel, right, 100%. Yeah. So I'm excited to see if he's going to, I mean, it's got to get him fired up, right?

He's going to train hard for this than he's ever trained before. You got to think that. Oh, yeah, you got to imagine that. Absolutely. But, like, I don't think anyone else is that. Like, I talked to Jim Miller last week. And, like, Jim's just excited to be on 300. Like, he wanted this spot.

Like, he's been on 100, 200. He won on 300. I think he's the second fight of the night on 300 against Bobby Green. you know it does kind of like the shrug of the shoulders like you know I've been there done that I'm just excited to be on the car like I wanted to be the guy to do it you know he wanted to be on all three he's the only guy that's going to be on all three and so yeah like I just I think people are like getting way too bent out of shape and listen I'm not saying fighters like if yuri peroshka a former champion comes on and says I think I should be on the main card over bow

nickel I get it I get it I do but I don't think anyone like anyone outside like if if If Yuri Perhashkar, Holly Holm, or one of them said, I'm a little bummed that I'm not on the main card over a guy like Bo Neckle, I get it because you're an established veteran, a star, a former champion, whatever the case may be. But as a fan, like me personally, like, I'm not offended of Bo Neckles on the main card. I know what they're doing. Anyone who knows the sport knows what they're doing,

they're trying to build a future star and they're putting them sandwiched between all these amazing fights so people were guaranteed to watch him. because even though 300 is stacked top to bottom, you and I both know there's still going to be some people who are going to miss the first couple of fights of the night. You know that. That's just the nature of the beast. Well, I was going to miss,

you're not going to miss the opening fight on the main card. Like, you're not going to miss that. Probably not. Yeah. Well, that's what I was going to say was also, if this is a regular card, I could see where these people would get mad, right for Bo Nickel being over top of you.

But on this, this card this is almost almost like not one fight over another like this is an entire like painting here you know what I mean like this there's no hierarchy here almost yeah like there's

fights on the undercard like I am so legitimately excited to see Kayla Harrison debut and I love Holly Holm like they're not doing they did not give Kayla an easy fight for her debut but I am so excited to see that fight just to see what Kayla can do as a Bantway and see what you know Holly Holm the one who absolutely

wrecked, like basically put Ronda Rousey on the downward spiral of her career. Like, that's an intriguing fight. Figurato, Garbrandt. I don't know if it'll last more in about four minutes, but I think that's going to be an amazing fight. Yeri and Alexander Rackett just super intriguing. I mean, every fun in this card's good. So, like, I'm just, I think, like, those are the two main complaints I've heard about

300. The main event and the bow nickels on the main card. And I'm like, if that's really your biggest gripe about this card, then there's really not a lot of gripe. Like, I just, to me, like, I like the main event. I think it's going to be fun. I think Jamal Hill's super underrated. I think him and Alex are going to put on a show for as long as that fight last.

I have a hard time believing that's going to go five rounds. That's also another benefit. Like, I think that's one's going to be a super exciting finish one way or the other. And then Bo Nicol being on the main card, like, you got to realize, like, he's the one. He's really the one outside of Kayla Harrison is the one prospect. Now, I don't think Kayla is a prospect. She's an established person, a champion of the organizations, but she's new to the UFC. but everybody else here's been here.

He's the one prospect building up in the O.C. I don't have a problem with him being on the main card. Like, you know, like, give him the spot, let him see how he does. And, you know, separate the men from the boys. If he doesn't shine, Cody Brodage beats it. Maybe he just wasn't that dude. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be interesting. So I think it's the first podcast we ever did.

We weren't breaking down every fight, right? We're just kind of talking. Yeah. It's supposed to be, right? Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. What? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo?

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I know. We're just talking about stuff. I actually did have one stuff before we get out of here. I wanted to see if you saw this. Did you see, real quick, before we get out of here? Did you see Nate Diaz had Conner's back today? Did you see this? I did not.

I was like, this is like peace talks or something, man. The peace accords are going on right here. So Nate Diaz took to Twitter. I wanted to read this, too, because I thought you'd find. It's interesting. I was like shocked when I saw this. So Conner's been very vocal. He's been doing the Roadhouse thing. Are you going to watch Roadhouse? Have you seen the original Roadhouse?

You're not a big movie guy. Have you seen the original Roadhouse with Patrick Schwezy? I haven't seen it. I know the movie, but I haven't seen it. Dude, come on now. You got to see Roadhouse. Well, Conner's Roadhouse opens this week. So he's been doing like the media tour promoting the movie.

And he's said a couple different times he's getting a little like frustrated and also kind of like losing his enthusiasm to fight because he keeps getting these days pushed back. And like, you know, he doesn't really find out when he's fighting. and I get it. Like, you know, I know we've had very open and honest conversation about whether Connor will fight again. But he's been like, you know, more or less saying, I'm kind of losing my motivation to fight because every time I think I'm going to fight, they keep pushing it back for whatever reason. Nate Diaz went on Twitter today and said, this was me for years before Connor even got here.

They want you to die before you get out of these contracts. It's up to you to make something pop. No one going to help you but you. Free Connor. It's St. Patty's Day in this bitch. And I was like, when Nate Diaz is defending you and saying like he's got your back, I was like, what is the world coming to? Now, date, Nate Diaz and Connor on the same side. Well, to be fair, Nate Diaz wants to fight Connor again, right?

Even outside the UFC, that's a gigantic fight. It is. That would be a massive fight. And let's be honest, just being clear about this. If they fought outside the UFC, they're going to get all the profits. Like, they fight each other and sell a million pay-per-views. They're going to get every dime of that paper. money they're not got to split it with anybody yeah and they're gonna box like they're not

gonna fight like they're gonna box i guarantee do you have interest in nate ds is boxing match with horace mazadol you see that i don't i don't find it that interesting but you know i mean i love boxing i love watching box i love watching high level boxing i think george mazvado's a pretty good boxer i think uh Nate is probably not you know like a a great boxer. I don't think it's going to be that interesting. Yeah, it's weird. Like, I'm happy for them. They're doing it. Like, they put this on together. Like, they're going to make a big fight for each other. And that's cool. But, like, ultimately, we're going to see two inexperienced boxers in a boxing match. And, like, I don't know how- That's kind of what I was getting at. Yeah, you said it better than me.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying, like, I hope it's great. I hope they go out there and have a freaking war. Maybe that's, like, better. That's better than having to see, you know, Ty, you know, Ben Ascran trying to box Jake Paul because that was not good. But, So maybe this will be a lot more fun, but yeah, I'd rather see them in an MMA fight. Like that's just, I don't know. But good for them. Like I said, I'm glad they're getting paid, glad they're getting money. Hope everyone, you know, I hope they make a ton of money off this. Good for them.

And I'm glad they're kind of controlling their own destinies. But I just thought that was funny seeing Nate take Conner's back. And I don't know, man, like it'll be interesting. You see Connor said he has two fights left on his deal. That's what he said. And I think a lot of people are kind of feeling maybe the UFC's kind of like icing him out to, like, extend your deal before you fight kind of thing. Because if he fights one more time and he has one fight left on his deal. you know, they want to make sure they lock him up for the future.

I don't know. I'm with you, Matt. I've kind of like come over to your side of the whole Conner's not fighting again kind of thing. But that's what Nate, I know for a fact, Nate dealt with that. Nate tried to fight forever, and they kept pushing him back and delaying and not giving him fights because they wanted to keep him. And, you know, he eventually got out and did his own thing, which is so funny. After all that, he got out. And then right after his last fight, Dana's like, this is your house.

You can come back anytime you want. But it was like for the longest time, I know for a fact. Nate was desperately trying to get a fight and they just weren't booking him. So it's just weird to see like now he's got Conner's back with this which is kind of funny. Yeah, that's interesting. I didn't know Nate was trying to get a fight

and they wouldn't give him one. Yeah, when was this? For that like two-year stretch there where he was just kind of like inactive when he booked like the Porre fight and he had to know, remember the whole Hamzat-Chamaya fight like he was just trying to get anybody.

He just wanted to fight because he had one fight left on his deal and he just wanted to be done with it. Interesting. Yeah, they kept pushing him back and delaying things and not booking him. And, like, you know, he just kept getting extended, extended, extended, and didn't get a fight. And, you know, I guess now he's kind of like in that same mode with Conner. I don't know if Conner's in the same boat necessarily. But, you know, Nate's getting his back.

I just thought it was funny. I was like, I didn't imagine Nate Diaz would get Conner's back of all people. Well, they made a lot of money together. So, and Connor kind of made. Nate so that's uh he kind of owes him i think yeah Nate was Nate was a name Connor made Nate a star yes that's exactly it yeah yeah there's a difference you can be a name he's not Nate is Nate is Nate is able to put on a paper view with Horace Mazadol and get people interested in buying it because he was Connor McGregor's greatest foe that's a

fact that's exactly right yeah and that's not bad this I'm not a knock on Nate Diaz like I'm not doing that at all like good for him you know like I mean dust a port you could argue is the same way. Like, Dustin became a superstar because he went out there and knocked out Connor McGregor. Like, Connor is that, that is, like, that's Connor's power. Like, fighting Connor does, like, the red panting night thing, that's absolutely real. And, you know, you go out and fight him, it's a big, big, big, freaking deal.

You come out, especially if you beat him like Nate did or like Dustin did, you get a lot of shine off that. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Or if you're Michael Chandler, you wait like three years and you still don't get to fight him, so you never know. Yeah, Michael Chandler's been waiting for the red paint. any night for three years. That poor guy, man.

I'm just like, geez, man. Like, I get it, dude. I feel, I legitimately feel bad for Michael Chandler because he's like 37, I think 36 or 37 or 37 or 38. He's been out for almost two years now. And like, there's just no end in sight. And I get it, man. Like, I get this.

And how do you tell the guy no? When you look at what happened to Nate Diaz and Dustoporri, how do you really tell that guy know? Like, how do you tell him to go fight Matush Gamrod or Armand Syrucian or. or, you know, Hafeel Fiziv when you could wait another six months, eight months, and hold out a hope you get Connor. Because I think Chandler could beat Connor. I absolutely think you can knock out Connor McGregor.

That's a real thing. And then your Star Power explodes from there versus maybe he beats Arm and Sarukia. Maybe he pulls it off beats Arm and Sarukin. Great. Are you getting offered millions upon millions for your next fight? Are you now headlining pay-per-views because you beat Connor McGregor? I get it. Like, I do.

I feel worse for Chandler than it. I wouldn't even question if he did if Connor came back fought him and Chandler won like how much of a star would that make him like Chandler's already a pretty good star but I mean I guess like the name power would be pretty good be solid but would anybody even really care would anybody be like wow that was like when Nate did it like you know it was special right we still we thought Connor was the man right and Nate did it coming in on fucking what two weeks notice too yeah like that was amazing right But like if Chandler did it now, like, I don't even think we'd be impressed. They'd be like, okay, you'd be a dude that's been doing movies and drinking and parting for three years. Yeah, no, you're not wrong. You're not right. It's a different stuff. But I think Star Power still does kind of trump that a little bit, like to a certain extent, you know, like I don't know.

I don't really know if I can give you a good example of that happening. I'm sure it's happened in boxing where like a guy who was a little past his prime and lost. and you know but i don't know it might happen with jake paul now it's true yeah that's true that's true that beats mike tyson and you know he's getting that name power but

you know you're beating a fucking 57 year old man get out of here right yeah i i think like you're right because connor you know the last couple of visions of connor have been getting knocked out by dust and getting his lead broken you know and now it's been like three years so you do but there is there is something to say about that star power like Nate Diaz is still a star Nate Diaz, like his last fight he won was Tony Ferguson He's only had one fight since then

He got basically beat on by Jake Paul In a pretty lackluster fight But he didn't do much in that fight And people still care about Nate Like it's not like Nate's star power is just diminished Just because he hasn't You know like he lost to he lost to Leon Edwards He lost to other guys you know

But you know there's still that star power So I think Connor's still going to carry it So I get what Chandler's doing Like, I don't dislike Chandler for doing it. But, like, actually, the more than anything, I feel bad for the guy. I'm just like, dude, you've been out for, like, you've sacrificed three or two years plus of your career. And there's still no guarantees you're ever going to get this fight.

Like, you think you are. And I know you want it, but there's still no guarantees you're going to get it. Right. Yeah. What a situation he's in, huh? Yeah. But again, like, I get it because what do you do alternatively? You go out and fight a savage like a Matush Gamrod and you lose, and then it really does go away.

and you have no chance of getting the fight. Yeah, I wish he would have kept fighting. I love watching Michael Chandler fight, man. I think he's such an exciting guy, such a great guy to watch fight. I wish he would have stuck around and kept fighting, but I'm with you. I get why he's doing what he's doing. Yeah, I mean, like I said, there's certain things that transcend the sport. Just like, I mean, listen, you know, it doesn't always work out, but look what Francis

Angano did. He bet on himself, weighed out a year for his contract to end, did, left, and got the Tyson and Fury fight. Now, there's no guarantee that could have happened, but he did it. And now, between that and the Anthony Joshua fight, he's made like $30 million, never has to work another day in his life, and he's made generational wealth, as you

called it. There's no guarantee that's going to happen for everybody, but like he bet on himself and it worked out. Chandler's like right now, like, he's holding on that lottery ticket real tight right now. Like, I really hope this hits. That's exactly it. Yeah.

Yeah. But again, I think even if he fights Connor, even if he beats Connor, I just wonder if it's going to be the lottery ticket that it would have been a few years ago. Yeah. Does it still matter as much to beat Connor McGregor in 2024 as it did in 2017 or 2018 or whatever? It was like when Habib beat him. It was such a big moment. Is it still the same thing now as it was then?

That's exactly it. You know, and yeah, I don't know. Like I said, I'm still leaning to. George Connor is never fighting again. You know, when he says things like that, gives me a little bit of, you know, not 100%, you know, now it's like,

now I think 90% he's not fighting again, you know, something like that. But yeah, I mean, I don't know, man. It just, it lost, it's just lost so much interest. Like, I don't know, you know,

I know after this movie he comes back in fights, like it would certainly, the mainstream would have a lot of interest in it, right? Like, everybody's going to watch it. But if you go beat them, it's like, what'd you do? Like, I just don't feel like anybody would be that impressed. You know, everybody would be like, oh, maybe, I guess the regular people would because the casual fans, because most of them, I guess, are idiots, right?

Well, I mean, you had a great call with the Mike Tyson thing. Like, you beat Mike Tyson. Yeah, you beat Mike Tyson, but you also beat 57. old Mike Tyson who hasn't fought professionally in 20 years. Like, are you really wanting to have that feather in your cap? Is that really the poster you're going to put behind you as like your proudest achievement? I think Connor, I think beating Connor still matters because he's such a star. But if Connor was still ranked right now, like I wouldn't, I don't know that I put him in

the top 15 lightweights right now. Like maybe somewhere in the tail into that. Like, you know, like 14, 15, 13 maybe where I put him, you know what I mean? Like I wouldn't put, I definitely wouldn't put him near the top of the division. I wouldn't put him anywhere near guys like Gaitie or Porriere or like I think do you think like Savage Division bro he's got I mean I bet I could name 15 guys that I wouldn't pick Connor to beat Like would you pick him to beat bin while saint denis I wouldn't no no but yeah to be fair I didn't pick Dustin Cpier or Dustin Porre to beat him to say but that's what I said but you saw even in losing even in losing you saw a

Benoit Saint Denis capable of like even in losing that fight he was the fucking savage in that fight Yeah, yeah. And honestly, it looked to me like he gassed out. He did. Yeah, I'm not going to sit here and make the excuse of those antibiotics, but maybe it was, right? But he looked to me like that was his enemy, was the gas tank. And Connor's not really that well known for a gas tank.

Yes, I would pick Denise. I'd pick guys, I'd pick Drew Dober to beat him. You know, I'd pick just trying to think of names here. you'd probably come up with a bunch of them. I think Moikano would take him down and choke him. Mokano, I think would beat him easy. Maybe not easy, but I think it'd be a good matchup for Mocano. Mocono is that guy, too.

Like, he's that guy that on the right night. He could beat anybody in the division. I think he could be a champion on the right night. But, you know, he seems to have off nights, too. Yeah, but you could even argue a guy like a Dan Hooker who's never quite been that guy, you know. but do you really like would you bet against dan hooker to beat connor right now like i wouldn't like i wouldn't i would think that's an absolute fight he could win like that you're right like when you think about it you're absolutely right like connor's a star that's what he has going for him

it's no longer that he's the guy we think is going to be like back in the day a few years ago we thought connor was the double champ he's going to be you know he'd be you know you would have picked him at least having a chance against everybody you know like there were there were definitely people picking him to beat kabeb i didn't because you know that was a horrible stylistic matchup for Connor McGregor. It was going to be in the Magamato. But there were legitimately people who thought Connor was going to knock him out. If Connor fought Islam today, the odds would be astronomical.

Islam would be like a minus 1,200 favorites. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And like I said, he's just like he's in a killer division there. 155 and 170. I mean, you got a fucking murderer's row up there. even in 170 i mean like i like neil magnate would beat him yeah you know he's what 15 14 yeah yeah yeah you're right like that's yeah you're absolutely right yeah does it mean as

much like money wise and prestige wise to a certain extent and again for chandler i get it because you're not going to get you could go out and be if he goes out and be his half hill of his Eve, which would be a great win because that dude's a monster, but he's not going to get as much money. He's not getting as much pay-per-view points. He's not as going to go. That's just not going to be there. But Connor provides that with, I would argue, far less risk.

Like, you know, if I said, Matt, Matt, you're going to fight your next fight. You're going to fight. Welch away. You're going to go and you're going to fight Bilal Muhammad or Gilbert Burns, one of the top guys, one of the top two or three guys in the division. Risk your fight, tough fight, great risk. Or you can go fight. I don't even know a name.

I'm trying to think, like, somebody coming off the couch, like, just a big name. Like, you know, like, I don't know. Chocolate Dell. Chocolate. You're going to fight, or, you know, who are you going to fight somebody coming off. You know, a huge name, but, like, the risk is not. But the name's there. Like, the name's there.

You know what I mean? Like, you're going to get a lot of strength. Right. Of course you're going to pick that guy. Of course you would. Like, you know, like, yeah. I'm going to pick the guy that's going to get me $10 million and endorsements and pay-per-view points. And the risk is far less than fighting, you know, Leon Edwards or Bilal Muhammad or

Hamas Tcha Maya ever, whatever, versus, and I get it. Like, would you rather make $250,000 and fight a savage like Jaffeel Fiziv, or wait six months and fight and you have a pretty damn good chance of winning that fight? Yeah, and the caveat in all this that I will add, though, is, dude, if Connor takes it serious, Connor gets healthy, stays off the fun stuff, you know, isn't drinking or partying or doing whatever he's putting in his body and he takes it serious i think all this talk kind of goes out the window because i still he still has the talent to beat just about anybody in those divisions i just don't see him taking it seriously and i'm not sure you know when he says for one

we can't we don't know what to even believe with what he says right he says all kinds of crazy stuff but you know if he is still training to some extent even if in and out you know keeping at least a little bit sharp he is that guy he could come back and surprise everybody look amazing you know full off another another Eddie alvarez moment i mean he's he's a fucking athlete you know he's a great fighter great eyes great reactions um so he could just surprise everybody too you know surprises by even fighting again and then come back and look great. And I kind of hope that's what he does.

I just don't think it will. Yeah, I'm with you. That's kind of, that's like, that's like the biggest stretch of a comment right there. But, but it is, it's not out of the realm of possibility, right?

Like, maybe he'll be like, fuck it, let's go. You know, I want to take this serious, you know, rent me a mansion in the middle of nowhere and have a training camp

with no distractions. But if you're a betting man, for the longest time, you bet he's never going to fight again. So, you know, it's like I said, like, it could happen. But, you know, lots of things could happen. Aliens can land on Earth tomorrow. I don't think it's going to happen, but it could happen.

There's probably a better chance of aliens than Connor fighting again. Did you see real quick, we're going to get out of here. Did you see Jose Aldo's coming out of retirement? Did you see this? I did, yes. How do you feel about that? Probably needs money, right? I don't like it.

I don't love it when guys are gone for that long in his age. And Jonathan Martinez is a sad. You know Jonathan from out in Colorado. A dude's a savage. Yes, not an easy fight. I love Jose Auto, man. I just hope he's doing him for the right reasons, you know. I hope that he's taking care of himself,

and he's like, I just want to fight. I just don't want to do something else. That's all I hope for. He's one of those guys. I would like to see do boxing or particularly like kickboxing, but there's no money. But, like, I'd love to see him go with Mazvedal or Nate Diaz. I think that would be pretty exciting.

I think that'd be cool to watch. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I think my opinion, and I don't have any inside track in this, my opinion is they needed a big fight for this Brazil card because they're not going to have Alex Pereira, which was the fight that we all thought was going to headline that card. They need a big name. Jose Aldo is a massive star in Brazil. I think they pulled out a checkbook, wrote him a big, big check and said, come back. And Jose's like, well, for that kind of money, I can't say no. And I don't know if that's the right reason to come back.

That's just my opinion. Right. That's, yeah, that's exactly what I'm feeling. So, hey, I hope he puts on a good show. I puts on a good performance. And, you know, I love watching the guy fight. So I'm going to support him either way. Like you said, it's a tough fight, though, Jonathan Martinez.

Yeah, they had, I don't know why they didn't do the dominant cruise fight. That was the one that would have made way more sense, like far less risk in that one. Because if you look at Jonathan Martinez, what he's doing really, he's been chopping people's legs off. Like that dude is nasty, man. Jonathan Martinez is, I don't know. Did you ever be, were you ever around Jonathan when you're on Colorado? Yeah, he was there.

I trained with so many people when I was out there. I don't remember, you know, specific rounds with a lot of people. He was like him and Royval. Got to forget the other guy's name. Rodriguez, Chris Rodriguez. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, they all kind of had like, you know,

a very unique style, but they're all smaller than me. You know, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't go hard with them. You know, I never go hard with the smaller guys. Yeah, I mean, it's a band's way. You're a Welchway. Like, it's probably not a guy who typically train with that often anyway, so. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, we had good rounds.

I remember, I remember being surprised by everybody out there at Factory X, Mark Montoya, you know, just a group of killers, man. They're doing great things. But I just remember being, like, unique and things that I'd never seen before. So, you know, all those guys, particularly Gutera's. That's who I was thinking of. Oh, yeah, Chris Gutierrez, yeah. Yeah, Gutierrez.

You know, just throwing crazy things I never really wasn't really expecting. And, you know, it's hard to spar with those kind of guys because, you know, they're little, but they're using like their speed to their advantage. And you're like, well, if I go quick, I'm going to hurt you. Yeah. So it's like, you know, you have to slow down or I have to speed up. Like one of the things, one of these two has to happen. And those guys never wanted to slow down.

So it's like, I was like, all right, well, I'm just not going to spy you then because I don't really want to, you know, speed up too much and end up knocking you out or something. Yeah. Well, you know what, though. What a great opportunity. What a great opportunity for Jonathan Martinez, man. Like I said, Jose Aldo is still a huge name, former champion. Yeah. Fighting him in Brazil, you know.

But listen, dude, what a great opportunity. Because Jonathan's not a big talker. He's not like a trash talker. He's not like trying to get loud that way. What a great opportunity, man, to come back. back and fight a guy like that. Like you get so much of a boost going on and fighting a guy like Josiah. If he beats Jose Aldo, knocks him out, finish him, whatever the case may be.

What a great career-making moment for Jonathan Martinez. Like, you know, what an opportunity for him, man. Like, take, that's like the Connor thing, like, except I think on a different level because Jose was more of an established champion than Connor was. But, yeah. And remember, when Jose left, he had lost a call. He lost the decision to Marab. When he was going to get a title shot, Marab beat him.

And so he retired. It wasn't like he lost. It wasn't like he left off nine losses and eight knockouts. And, like, he was, you know, really shouldn't have been fighting. Like, he lost a, he lost a fight to a really savage bantam weight and just decided, you know, I'm not going to get a title shot. So I'm just going to go and walk away. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, as I said, I love watching out, oh, man. I think he's one of the best fighters in history. I think he's the greatest lightweight in history. I love the guy, man. So I'm always happy to see him fight. hopefully stays on the feet because that's where I like watching him fight the most. And he's one of the guys I've looked up to for a long time. Even when he was in WEC, I think I was just got in the UFC when he was getting in WEC.

And I just loved watching the guy. I remember watching him in WEC, I believe it was a hard rock in Vegas. It was one of those smaller venues out there in Vegas. And my manager was sitting there with him and he was telling me about him how much of a killer he was. And I think he fought Mike Brown that night. Yeah, he knocked out Mike Brown. That's when he was, yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

Yeah, and that's my first time I've seen Jose Auto. And I was like, holy shit. Like, this guy's for real, you know? Yeah. And, yeah, I just love the guy, man. Yeah. Well, like I said, man, he's back. Like I said, I'm with you.

I just hope he did it for the right reasons. You know, I'm never going to be opposed to one making a big bag of money, but there's still danger in just doing it for the money. Like, you know, like it's, so hopefully he's training full on and he's going to come back and look like the old Joe's. Aldo's best he can. So we'll see. All right, Matt, we're going to get out of here. Obviously, as always, I want to give you a chance to tell people where they can support you,

people to want to check out what you got going on and you got people to support you. So where can people support you at? I am the immortal Instagram and Twitter. Check out the immortal coffee at the immortal coffee or at the immortal coffee. Or at the immortal coffee.com. Also, my sponsors, Redwood Outdoor Sana, Sana, use code Immortal 250 for a badass Sana. which I skipped tonight to do this podcast with you, Damon. So I expect a lot of love from you for that.

Of course, always, always. Yeah, it's about all I can ask for, I guess. Yeah, and create at try create creatine gummies, which, Damon, you should be on the fucking creatine gumming. I know, you keep telling me about these things. I need to try these things. Yeah, well, you see. scared of, bro. They taste fucking great. It's like candy.

I need to get me some creatine gummies. That's such a unique product. Like, when you told me about that, it's like, that's so weird. I wouldn't even think about that. What a cool... It's such a good idea. Yeah, it's a great idea. Like, it's an absolutely brilliant idea. When you told me about this, like, what a fucking fantastic idea that is. I was like, why didn't I come up with that?

You know, creatine sucks, man. I mean, I take it every day. I'm taking it for years, but mixing it into something, you know, has no flavor. You got to put in a smoothie. You know, all this shit's like I just snack on these gummies all the time It fucking tastes great, dude

Give them to my kids You know, like a little treat for Cleaning their fucking room or whatever they do Yeah, it's a genius idea Give them credit for that, genius idea So all right folks We're gonna get out of here We appreciate one of the tunes in

We'll be back next week With another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider We got a lot coming up in the near future Lots of cards Of course rolling into UFC 300 sooner rather than later So we'll be talking a lot about that one I feel like maybe like we should do like two shows Just talking about 300

so we can actually talk about the entire card because it's just so stacked. Like one episode would be like four hours long just trying to get through every fight. So maybe we'll just do a couple episodes just breaking down 300 and getting into that. And as always, I want to say thank you to everyone that tunes in. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms,

Apple Podcast, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, MMAFiting.com. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.