MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Tries To Find a Way to Get Excited About UFC 293 and Explains Why It’s So Hard for Fighters to Stay Retired

Episode Date: September 5, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC legend Matt Brown and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin discussing the fallout from UFC Paris and looking ahead at UFC 293. Ciryl Gane got a big win in the main event at UFC Paris but did we learn anything about him that we didn’t already know? Does he need to take on a top grappler like Tom Aspinall, Curtis Blaydes or Jailton Almedia to truly prove he’s still an elite heavyweight? Plus we react to Rose Namajunas’ debut at flyweight and the news that she plans to stay at 125 pounds for the future rather than making her return to the strawweight division. We’ll also look ahead at UFC 293 and try to convince ourselves that Sean Strickland has a legitimate chance at upsetting Israel Adesanya. We’ll also tease what could be next for Adesanya if he wins — a grudge match with Dricus Du Plessis or could Khamzat Chimaev present a more interesting matchup if he gets through Paulo Costa at UFC 294. Also following news that Paul Felder is plotting a potential comeback to the cage, Brown explains why it’s so hard for fighters to actually stay retired from the sport. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster, The Downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine.

Available now, only from Audible. The Fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown, and it's Labor Day, but guess what? We're still laboring at Labor Day, Matt. This is the labor of love. Is I love, Damon. Exactly. It's always a labor of love when we do this show. It's always a labor of love.

What's going on? What's going on in your corner of the world? I mean, I trained today and then I went golfing. So, yeah, I'm wore out, bro. That's actually a pretty long day. It was like 90 degrees today. So I'm still trying to wrap my head around Matt Brown, the golfer. Like, this still doesn't quite compute. Like, Matt Brown to Metalhead, you know, Matt Brown the badass. Matt Brown to like, you know, Savage in the gym, all those things. Matt Brown the golfer is not one description I would have written out for you when I first met you like two decades ago. Well, I can tell you, I wouldn't go as far as defining myself as a golfer by any means. Like I put on a fucking polo and go out with my son because he's on the golf team and he fucking loves it. But calling me a golfer, that might be a stretch.

Like I swing a club and do the best I can. But to be fair, I think I'm doing pretty good being this was my fourth. time I've been out on a course and I've never hit over a 50. I mean, you probably don't know what that means. Like, you know, golfers would know, you know, and I've got as low as 42. And this is a 36 par course. So I understand. I understand what all those numbers mean.

I don't, I don't play golf, but I do understand what those number means. So yeah, part 36 on the course. You shot a 50? That's not bad. I shot a 48 today, actually. There you go. See, look at you. But I shot as low as 42 so far. Oh, wow. Look at you.

You're going to be joining the tour for two. I'm just saying, bro. Like, I think that's pretty good. That is pretty good. I just, I don't know, man. Golf's one of those things. Like, I don't have the patience to play golf. Like, I would 100.

You know, it's funny. A lot of fighters play golf. Daniel Cormier and Justin Gachie swear by it. Like, when I interview Justin Gachie, he gets way more excited to talk about golfing than he does fighting. Like, he is way into golf. D.C. is, Dude, Daniel Cormey is way into golf.

I just, dude, it's never, I've never gotten the appeal of it. I don't have the patience for it. I would 100% be the guy that would Chuck is, I would be happy Gilmore. I'd be the guy throwing my clubs on the course and like someone says something. I'd wrap my golf club around their neck. Like that would 100% be me on the golf course. I know, I understand this. So I just don't do it.

Have you tried it though? Oh yeah, I've tried it. My, uh, my cousin growing up was a golfer. He was on a golf team and he always used to take me like driving ranges and stuff. And I went golfing a few times. And it's just. I don't know. It's just not for me, man. It's just I play. I love sports.

I love football. I played basketball as a kid. Never was really good baseball. I played tennis. I actually did play tennis. There's a sport you might not figure out for me. I did play tennis, but yeah, just golf wasn't for me. I just, like I said, teach their own men. So out there long drive to weird.

Yeah, he's play tennis all the time. Tennis is actually really fun and it's a good workout too. It is fun. So we've got to top golf here in Columbus. I feel like we've got to go now. Now, top golf. obviously I guess not golfing either right? No, it's not.

But it is fun. I do love top golf. That's like the wide, like you could get me to do that. I would do that. I would do top golf. You couldn't get me on a course, do nine holes, but you can get me a top golf

and it's not so far away for our houses. We could go to that. Well, my next step is now I got to do 18 holes, bro. 18. We got a lot of golf courses here because Jack Nicholz is from here,

so we got golf courses all over this place. I know. Yeah, it's not too bad, bro. like, I don't know. It seems like people it love it or hate it. It's not like, you know what I mean? There's not a lot of people

that are just kind of in between with it. It's like, I don't know. I'm kind of enjoying it so far, though. I just started this summer, though. Like I literally went four times. I mean, I went to the driving range and stuff, but I kind of enjoy it, man. I can see you getting into it.

Like, I like having a cigar out on the course and fucking, you know, hanging with your boys and shit. It's pretty fun, bro. Yeah, hey man, how about it? And all I know is, like I said, I said this off here, I'll say it now. Dude, you buy a pair of plaid pants and start wearing that around the, uh, start wearing that around the course, man. We might have to have a conversation.

Like, I do, dude, Matt Brown, the golfer, I can handle Matt Brown and plaid pants. I don't think I can do it, man. I just don't think I can handle that. I think the girls are like that. I understand. Where do they, do you go to the golf? Do they sell those at the golf shop? I never been, I don't think I've ever sat down in, like, a pro shop where they have, like,

the golf. Do they sell like plaid pants at the gold store? I have no idea. I go in there and buy a cigar and that's it. Dude, you should go in there and be like, yeah, man, I need some, I need some plaid pants. He's fucking plaid pants. I bet a golf galaxy, they got some plaid pants. Oh, dude, there's no way they don't have plaid pants. I mean, I'm sure they do. There's no way they don't have plaid pants on one of those stores. I mean, come on. Or, you know, our boy lopper, lettuce bar or some. But yes, I don't know. It's pretty fun, man. I think if you take the game serious, it can not be fun, though, right?

Like, that's probably your problem, right? If you take it so serious, like, dude, I got to get this ball. I'm just like, I lose the ball. I'm like, all right, try again. I'm weirdly, I'm weirdly competitive. Like, I'm definitely that. Like, I like winning. So, yeah, I'm definitely that.

That's, that's probably why. I don't know. Like I said, I just, I don't have the patience for it. I know I don't. I know I don't have the patience for it. I'm just, I never, when I tried it, I wasn't good. And I tried being good at it for a little while when I played a couple times. and like this just isn't for me.

But, you know, to each their own, like I said, there's a lot of people would hate playing tennis. I love playing tennis. I don't really play anymore, but I used to love playing tennis. Like, I've been talking to a couple buddies of mine about maybe doing pickleball, because everyone's, like, way into pickleball now. And I'm like, that could be kind of fun, like something similar-ish that's in us, you know? Yeah, it's fucking pickleball came out of nowhere, huh?

Yeah, dude, I don't know. Like, all of a sudden, everyone's playing pickleball. And I'm like, what the hell is this? Yeah, I never even heard of it. But then I've seen it at the Arnold's. They had a whole setup for pickleball. I was like, what the fuck is this an old person game? But I've never tried it.

I don't know. So I can't hate it so I try it. Yeah, there you go. Hey, you never know. Like I said, you know, you get good enough. Start winning some money. You know, who knows what you can be up to in the golf course? I don't know.

Like I said, I... Wouldn't that be cool? Go from a UFC fighter to pro golf firm. Yeah. You could be from going from Matt the Immortal Brown to Matt to Chipper Brown. That'll be your nickname to Chip. Yeah. You can be my caddy, damn it.

I'll be your caddy. That's absolutely. I'll absolutely be your caddy because that takes all the responsibility off of my shoulders to actually hit the ball and try to get in the freaking hole. Let's do it, bro. I almost missed the fights last weekend. Because golf? But I end up watching the fights and seeing I, yeah, it was a pretty fucking good show overall too, right? Yeah, it was good.

It was like obviously it was a top heavy card, much like we're going to talk about. about a little bit later with UFC 2-93, but you know, a couple good fights in there. Obviously, uh, Benoit Saint-Deney had a great knockout. That was incredible. Of course, against the Rose Namuunis make her flyway debut. She came up short. And then Cyril Gan knocking out Sergei Spivak, which I don't want to diminish what he did in that fight, Matt.

Like, Cyril Gan's good. We all know he's a good heavy way. Like, there's no, there's no surprise about that. But I don't know that we learned anything about Cyril Gan that we didn't already know. You know what I mean? Like, when a guy comes off a lot of. loss, like he lost to John Jones. I kind of want to see, like, did he grow from that loss?

Did he get better? I don't really, and that's not a knock on him, by the way. Let me just be clear about that. Like, I don't know that Sergei Spivak was really going to push him in the way to where I was like, oh, man, like, this is a really dangerous matchup for him. You know, like, once he shrugged off a couple takedowns, I was like, well, this is going to go really badly for Cyril. This is going to go really bad for Sergey Spivak, and that's exactly what happened.

Yeah, I don't remember him shooting for one takedown. And I was like, what kind of game plan is this, bro? Like, you should be spamming takedowns. Like, you know his weakness and, like, Sergei's good on the ground. Like, it really threw me off. I really thought that Sergey would push way harder for the takedown, have a better strategy for getting the takedown or, you know, something like that. And, yeah, he just didn't really have anything to offer at all.

We, like you said, or like you said, we knew what would happen on the feet. Yeah, it's like, and again, that's not a knock on him. I just like, when they made the match of him, like, well, this fight's going to go one or two ways. Either Cyril's going to knock him out or Speedback's going to somehow get to take down and beat him on the ground. But even that, like, I would say I was like 90-10. Like, I was 90%

sure Cyril Gan was going to win that fight. Like, I just, I had a pretty good feeling about it. His speed and his power. And again, like I said, if I want to learn more about Seril Gan, I need to see him fight, like, he needs to fight Curtis Blaze or Jalton Almeida, guys who are just

incredibly good on the ground now. You can talk about Curtis Blaze. You know, he made a ill-fated mistake standing with Sergei Pavlovich in his last fight to cost him him and obviously he's fighting Jelton Almeda in November so we'll find out who wins that one but I think the winner of that one and Tom Aspinall is another one I know Tom

actually called out Cyril Gan I think that makes a lot of sense Tom's an incredibly good grappler good striker as well but I think that would be like that's that to me is a matchup if he fights Tom Aspinall that's a fight where I'll walk away saying I know more about Cyril Gan now than I did when he fought Sergei's

feedback either either he's going to evolve and beat a guy like Tom Espinall, who to me is the top five heavyweight, or he's just not going to be that guy. Like, he's just going to be that really good striker who could beat up the number six guy, the number seven guy, the number eight guy. But I don't know that Cyril Gahn's ever going to be a champion, if that makes sense. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, I think that's exactly it.

He's one of those guys that, you know, we know how good of a striker he is, right? Like you said, we didn't learn anything about him. I think you made a great point. we don't really know anything we didn't learn anything about him such shit said yeah we know he we know he can stand with anybody you know like the only people that are going to beat him on the feet you know or you know they're gonna i don't know get lucky right not even get lucky right he's gonna get caught or so you know like anybody can lose on the feet anytime but um yeah i'm not much to add to that bro because you're right like we just didn't learn much about him yeah i think him and asked well i think

him in Aspinall makes a lot of sense. Aspinall, you know, he's a really good guy, a really good heavyweight. He had that one freak he lost to Curtis Blades where he injured his knee, came back, got the win in the last one. And kind of the same thing with him. He beat Marchine Tarbura, who's a, you know, good serviceable heavyweight. But again, I don't know that I really learned much about Tom Aspinall with him beating Marchine Tybura. Like, if Tom Aspinall fights Theril gone, we're going to learn something about both those guys. Like, we're going to figure out which one of them is going to be like a top tier heavyweight. I think that's a fight that makes a lot of sense for both guys. Plus, they're both from Europe.

You know, one's from England, once from France. Makes a lot of sense. And where the heavyweight division is right now, you got Padlovich. He's backing up, Steepa and John. You know, that makes a lot of sense. Steepa and John fighting in November. You got, I mentioned Jalton-Omeida fighting Curtis plays in November. That's a good matchup.

I think Suril Gahn and Tom Aspinall is the fight to make because then we'll really learn. And again, I say the thing about Tom Aspinall. Like, I didn't really learn anything about Tom that I didn't already know when he fought my her, Martin Dubura.

Like, I wasn't, I wasn't going to that father. Man, this is a huge risky fight for him. So,

yeah, that's the, to me, that's the matchup. Let's just make it, let's make, Mick Maynor and Sean Shelby's job easy for him.

I totally agree. Because we got the two best grapplers, obviously going against each other without made-in blades, and then let's put two great strikers together. Yeah.

You know, and then whoever comes out on top, either, you know, fights for the title if it's vacant or they, because it's very possible that title is going to be vacant. no matter who wins between Jones and Steve A, right?

Like, is it a very good possibility either one of them walks away. So that title may be vacant. You know, so, you know, the winner either fights, you know, for a vacant title or fights Sergei Pavlovich. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. Yeah, I mean, Sergey is going to be right there. And yeah, you're right. I mean, we've been open and honest about this.

Like, I don't, if Jones wins or Miocch wins, the winner could just retire. Like, maybe, like, there's a good chance. That's a double retirement fight. depending on how things play out. Because if Steve A wins, he just beat the greatest fighter ever. Where do you really go from there? Like, you know, do you stick around at 41 and say, man, I really can't wait to fight the next crop of great heavyweights?

I don't see that happening. And John Jones has been open and said, like, Steve A, maybe the last one. Because, you know, what else does he? I mean, I think there's a better chance of Jones sticking around than Steve A, if I'm being honest with you. But either way, I think there's a pretty good chance. Neither one of them sticks around after that fight. So, yeah, we could be talking about Sergey versus the winner of

Aspinall and Gone or the winner of Almeida and Blaywell, probably not Blades because obviously he just lost to Sergei, but we can talk about Jelton Almeida, Tom Aspinall or Cyril gone, potentially. And I think even gone might be a little further out because he's lost in two title fights. He lost in Ghana and he lost a Jones. So maybe Aspinall and Almeida are like the whoever looks better and then they get Pavlovich and that's the new title. Yeah.

The problem too, I think for John or C-Bes, like none of these other guys were talking about have a big name power like that you know what i mean so like they're not going to be excited to fight any of these guys based off the name power they know that they're a tough worthy challenge like all of those guys are fucking tough motherfuckers that are going to bring a you know a tough fight to them but none of them bringing the name power deserving of like jones or stepe yeah it's a problem and uh listen you got you know people are i mean there's a reason why when Sean O'Malley won, people immediately started working to the Cheeto fight because, you know, Cheeto was a bigger name and Cheeto has the win over Sean.

So it's like easy sell. Easy way to sell that fine, right? And listen, I say it all the time. I'll say it again now, Matt. If you want to stay sane in this sport, strike the word deserves from your vocabulary because deserves means nothing in this sport. Who's going to sell more and who's near? Because there's the reason why Connor McGregor, if he ever does fight again, and that's a big if,

If he ever does fight again, he's only ever one win away from a title shot. Let's be honest. He's only ever one win away from a title shot because he's kind of McGregor. I mean, realistically, he could probably come back and just simply fight for a title shot if you really wanted to, right? I mean, you know, he's playing in his cards the right way. But, yeah, and that's this. I don't know, you know, how to, I don't know what to think about that, right?

because like it sucks that we do have to strike the word deserve from our vocabulary. But if we bring in like kind of the way the boxing does it, where they have like the mandatory challengers and obviously they have a very different political system and different ranking system and everything's different. But it does force you to fight the next guy. You know what I mean?

So, you know, there's like so many pros and cons. we'd have to do like a whole podcast solely on that subject. But so I guess I don't know why I'm bringing it up. But that's, you know, just one of those things I just kind of think about when we talk about this word deserve all the time. Because I wish that I guess my point is I wish that the guy that did deserve it got the fight. I agree. I mean, like I said, just like this. I mean, I listen, you obviously, you know, like our feelings towards Steve A's an Ohio guy.

I love steep A to death. but like based on credentials, based on who's earned it right now. Well, Sergey Pavlovich has earned a title shot. Like, he has earned a title shot. Steve is getting it because he's the longest reigning heavyweight champion and it's a legacy fight for both him and John Jones. I get it. I don't have a huge issue with it.

But in terms of who's done more lately, well, Sergey's done more lately. Like, Steve is coming off a loss. He's coming off a lost in Ghana from three years ago. Like, what are we doing here? You know what I mean? Like, that's not generally how you get a title shot. But Stevey's a legend. a multiple time heavyweight champion

all those kind of things so he's getting it and I don't again to be clear I don't really have a huge problem with him getting it but let's be honest like he didn't earn it quote unquote he didn't go out there if he had beaten Sergey and you get the title shot sure same deal with chito like marab de walesh really deserves

the title shot he's earned he's on a nine fight win streak he just absolutely dominated peter yon a guy that went to a split decision with shana amalley and had a couple of you have a close fight to algerid sterling as well went out there absolutely for five rounds. He is clearly the number one contender, but, you know, Cheetah's got name value. Cheetah has a win over Sean.

There's a story there. You know, like it or not, that seems to be where we're heading. And realistically, like those, they're going to have a good buildup for that. At least two, there's a story. But those guys talk, they don't like each other. They talk a certain way that, you know what I mean? They got the star power. Like, yeah, it just, if you're in the UFC's position, you can't ask for,

a better situation. But, you know, from a hard, and it's only the hard, hardcore fans that are even going to give a shit, right? Like, how many people, like, truly want to see Marab versus, you know, Marab fight O'Malley rather than

Cheeto? Like, realistically, we would rather watch Cheeto and shot O'Malley go out of the game. Like, we know what Marab's going to do. He's going to spam take downs, you know, maybe get one and, you know, like he did Peter Young. We know what Cheeto's going to do. He's going to stand there and bang like that's the fight we want to see well that's what everyone else wants to see

marab I legitimately want I think he's a tougher matchup and I think that's why I'd like to see it but you're absolutely right like I'm in the minority I fully admit I'm in the minority like I know I'm in the minority of saying like I want to see that fight like beyond everything else like I want to see that fight because then it's a tougher matchup but you're absolutely right like I am 100% in the minority of people saying I want to see that fight the majority people would rather see the stand-up, bangor brawl, and Cheetah presents that kind of interesting

match-up, and again, the story's there. Like it or not, it is there. He has a win over Sean O'Malley. There's history there. And also, you know, Cheeto did get a winner over Pedro Munoz, not to say it certainly does away

with how he performed against Corey Sanhagan, but, you know, you can't say he's all the loss or all these little things we would normally nitpick about. Like, come on. Like, again, like, you're right. You're absolutely right. 100% right.

Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, you could tell, You could have gone through just about every division and probably say similar things, right? So even like the whole deserve thing is, you know, very subjective too, right? A lot of times. Yeah, no, it is. It is.

And there's no, well, here's the thing. There's no criteria. Like, no one says, like, you win five in a row. You get a title shot or you win six in a row. Like, there's no criteria for that. It's not a tournament, you know, none of that. Like, none of that applies here. So ultimately, it really does come down to who just who.

And also comes down to timing, who's available. Like, you know, that kind of thing. Like, if somebody's injured, like right now. Sean Strickland is getting a title shot at UFC 293 for no other reason, Dan, Israel-Aidna needs to headline of Cardin Australia and Dracus Duplice was hurt. That's it. Like, I'm not knocking Sean Strickland for taking the opportunity, but no one in their right mind is going to sit there and say he deserved that title shot. He got it because of opportunity and timing. He didn't get it because he's on this huge long win streak and he's knocked out all the other contenders.

He's getting it because he was the one guy available who hasn't fought Izzy and he was ready to go. in September. That's it. Like, that is the real reason Sean Strickland is fighting in the main event at UFC 293. And the cherry on the top there has to be, he's going to make some fun press conferences this week, right? Hopefully fun, not cringy.

Let's hope more fun less cringe. Love him or hate him. Like, he makes it interesting, at least. He does. He does. We're going to talk about UFC 293 and just take it real quick before we move on. I want to ask. We talked to a little bit of Cyril Garant, Cyril Gond. Obviously,

Rose Nama Yunus made her debut, had a loss against Mano Fior. I just watched Rose on Live. It turns out she doesn't have a broken hand. She has a distalcated finger. She was kind of lamenting that, saying, I wish I just popped it back into socket. But here's maybe the biggest news coming out of this.

She says, I'm not going back to Strawweight. She's staying at Flyweight. She doesn't want to cut the weight and kill herself. And she's already, she kind of said, I've been there, done that at Strawweight. I'm a two-time champion, you know, not really interested in going back down there. What did you think of Rose?

And is she making the right to see? here? Like, or, like, I don't want to just kind of like, Mino Fiore got a big win, but like, what, what's, like, what's next for Rose? Yeah, I thought, I think that's a really interesting decision because, um, I mean, we know, like, she can do great things at the lower weight

class, right? But when she goes up to 125, it's like, I mean, we, we, we, we just seem, like, you know, she wasn't able to reach, uh, Fioro, is that you say? Fioro. Fior. yeah, Fior. Fior.

Yeah. She wasn't able to reach her very well. The strength was clearly, you know, favoring Fiora. Fiora. You know, the strength was like clearly favoring her. And, you know, unfortunately,

I don't think that that was what actually wanted for. You know, I mean, literally, to me, it looked like she was just better than Rose at night. You know, maybe the disillard. located finger that she thought was broken. Maybe that I played a factor in it for sure.

You know, she kind of, she switched to Southpaw and, you know, certainly wasn't throwing that right hand nearly as much, but fewer looked like the better fighter to me that night. And it's like, you know, I don't know. Like, where does she go with that weight class, right? Yeah, it's a weird one because Rose is legitimately a star. like she's a well-known person and been there so you can't just throw her in against nobody's like i just can't imagine the UFC is going to want to pay her what they're paying her to go in there

against like the number 15-ranked girl or the number 20-rank girl things like unless it's a name like there's name value there but then on the flip side like what names are in that way well that's yeah that's the other problem like you know what i mean like who does she fight like i mean you know like is she going to fight the loser of chocinco grasso is it really going to be like that much like she lost. So it's not like she's going to get like the next top person. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I was, I was arguing like when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, was, I was going to give Rose the title shot because she has two wins over Zhang.

And I was like, I, I was rooting for that not to happen. Not because I don't like Rose. I love Rose, but because we've already seen that fight so many times. And Rose was coming up that just horrendous fight with Carlos Barza. I was like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, you know, But in my head, I was like, they're going to do it. They're going to just book her in that title fight. Well, they didn't. And then she was to flyweight. And I don't know.

Like, I'm not, she didn't look terrible, but like, do I really, like, I don't know. Can she win some fights of flyweight? Sure. But she just lost a man O'Fior. Like, who is she going to fight? And, I mean, does she fight Caitlin Chukagian? Does she fight Jessica And Drosha in a rematch at 125? Like, I have no idea.

Like, I don't really, I don't really understand the move necessarily. But she says that. you know, the weight cut is terrible. She doesn't like doing the weight cut. She's going to add on some more muscle. And, you know, she had the same reach as Minofi or all those kind of things. So I guess we'll see. I mean, one more try and see how it goes.

I mean, she didn't look terrible, but she didn't win. I mean, I don't, I heard some people thinking Rose won. I don't agree with that. I thought Rose clearly lost a fight. Yeah, there wasn't. I don't think there was any question on who won or lost that fight. I don't know. It's very surprising to me that she said that that weight cut hurts her so badly.

you know like I wonder if she's not cutting weight properly or not preparing properly you know something because like 10 pounds isn't a lot to cut you know and I'm not sure what she was cutting from but I can't imagine it was more than like just 10 pounds like that's very very standard across the board and the UFC to be cutting 10 pounds you know even like you know straw weights fly weights whatever bannam weights you know like 10 pounds is not a significant amount Yeah, it's weird. I don't know. Like, I don't know what's next for her. Like, you know, I mean, of course, she said she's staying at flyways. There's going to be openings there. Who, I don't know. I mean, I knew, you know, like Lauren Murphy's out there.

I said Caitlin Chacon's out there. We just saw Tyler Santos lose Aaron Blanchfield. She's out there. Maybe that's a fun one. You know, maybe she's because, again, I can't see Rose sticking her out 125 and they just throw her in there against anybody. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I just, I mean, I don't know.

I don't really know. Like, I don't really know. But again, you know, but listen, I'm never going to fault someone. She feels healthier and happier, flyweight. If that's where she feels like she's going to perform better, more power to her. I just don't know where, like, I don't know what I don't, I can't predict what's next for her, I guess is what I'm saying. Like, I don't really know. Like, I guess Chukagian maybe or or, or Lauren Murphy, one of those other fly weights who's like in that top 10, but not necessarily in the top five or maybe Tyler Santos. Maybe that's a matchup.

I don't know. They all feel like, like, without looking at the. stats or seeing them next to each other, they'll feel like they're way bigger than her. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I don't know if I'm right or wrong on that. I could be totally wrong, but just from, you know, my own perception of thinking of like what Rose looks like and these other girls look like, like, you know, I still never know how to

say her in Fjord. She looked bigger than Rose. And I don't think the size has played a gigantic factor other than her just stopping those takedowns, you know, without really any. resistance whatsoever. But yeah, like, she doesn't feel like she sized for that division to me.

Yeah, no, I agree. I totally agree. I totally agree. Speaking of weight cutting, Matt, you talked about, you know, cutting the weight and things like this. I know you are, correct me if I'm wrong, you're a big sauna guy, aren't you? I'm a huge advocate of this sauna. And in two weeks, I'm going to have my personal sauna delivery.

to me from Wedwood outdoors. I have to thank them for sponsoring the podcast and they're hooking me up with a beautiful new brand new barrel sauna. So I spent most of our, excuse me, I trained and went golf in and I spent the rest of the day working on building a little platform for the sauna getting it already. You got to, you know, get some gravel delivered and build a little spot for us. I'm stoked as could be, man. You know, we'll have to talk sometime about, you know, It's interesting because we segue from weight cutting into this how unhealthy weight cutting is for you and how bad it can damage all these different things in you.

But the sauna is probably one of the most beneficial things you can do for your life. And I'm going to fucking get you out there in it, Damon, and you're going to love it. We're going to set up the ice barrel. Well, ice tub, not an ice barrel, but my ice tub, you're going to do a cold plunge. You're going to do the sauna.

We're going to steam it up. We're going to fry. We're going to sweat. And then we're going to fucking eat some good food and maybe smoke with cigars. I don't know. You're going to sleep better and you've ever slept and you're going to start feeling the benefits right away. I like it. I like it.

I know that I know like everyone always correlates the sauna to weight cutting in MMA. And I get it. Like it can be a tool to use a weight cutting. But there's also huge other benefits of using a sauna beyond weight cutting. Like I know Joe Rogan. swears by it. He constantly is talking about using the sauna. It's a tool. We hear about it so often because of weight cutting, and I get it. It can be a tool for weight cutting, but it's also a tool for so many other things in MMA and like recovery and things like that for your body when you're a high

level, you know, even if you're not a high level athlete, it could be beneficial. But I think people equate it so much with weight cutting thinking that like that's what the primary thing you use it for. And I know for you, it's not. Like I know you use the sauna generally has done doing weight cutting. I'll tell you what, I haven't even used Asana in many years for weight cutting. Like, I don't even like using it for weight cutting. I don't think it's that good pure body for weight cutting. When I have used it for weight cutting, I feel worse.

Like, my body feels way more fucked up. So I use it for health reasons. I mean, where do you even start with the benefits? I mean, if you watch, like, yeah, Joe Rogan talks about the time. He has that Rhonda Patrick on there. She's done a lot of great science, a lot of research. on it. She talks about it all the time.

I mean, Dr. Huberman, and we all listen. Well, not all, you know, a lot of people listen

to his podcast. Um, he talks about the benefits. I mean, there's just, it's a laundry list of benefits. And it's easy and it's fun and it's enjoyable. It's like,

what else do you want, you know? And now you're going to, now you're going to have one of your house. Yeah, man. And I've had one on and off for a long time. My buddy has a mobile sauna.

So it's a sauna on a trailer. We bring it over. and, you know, I have a bunch of people over and we have some fun with it. But just to be clear, like, I'm not just simply saying all this because I'm being sponsored by them. Like, I've been saying this for a long time. I've probably mentioned a lot of this to you before, Damon. I mention this to all my friends all the time.

And with that said, you know, you can use my code to buy Asana if you want to get $250 off. And that's immortal. Immortal 250. Yeah, that's what is all capital. we'll say Mortal 250. But I'm going to pump them up as much as I can because I'm so stoked to get a sauna and I'm so stoked to be working with this company, Redwood Outdoors. That's just one of the best companies out there.

They got a sauna for my buddy, Dustin Myers, who's my strength of conditioning coach. And we use it all the time when I go out there every Wednesday at 6 a.m. Watch the sunrise while we're, you know, grinding it out in the sauna and the ice tub. I tell you, it's a, your whole day is different when you start off that way. There you go. Yeah, support it and check it out. And I look forward to one day sweating my ass off in the sauna that you're going to have at the Immoral Mansion. So I look forward to that.

I didn't give you the caveat, though, for anyone who is going to come use the sauna, they have to help me get the sauna ready and build the sauna, which is an easy build. but the building the platform and all that's going to be the real job. So next weekend, Damon. There we go. Maybe we'll do a podcast in person since we'll be hanging out. I always joke about that. People don't understand.

We always do it. We always record our podcast on Zoom. We literally live five minutes away from each other. Like five minutes. I could jump in my car and be at your house in five minutes is probably pushing it. I can be there quicker than that. And yet we always record the podcast over Zoom, which is just hilarious.

It's just easier on schedules to do it this way. But I do live like five minutes away from you. So, yeah, it is actually rather convenient to come to your house. Well, I've got a pretty decent little studio down here. Maybe I'll have to build out and we'll start doing in person sometime. Hey, we could. You know, we could, hey, we could start doing sauna night and then podcast or podcasts and then sauna. You know?

There we go. Vice versa. You know, something. We'll figure something out. Might need some recovery after this podcast, all I'm saying. You know what I mean? We're done with it. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe we'll even put your equipment to the test and we'll do a podcast in the sauna. Yeah, now that I will not do. That'll be the end of the old math book right there. I'll be like, yeah, I didn't survive the sauna. I'm not risking that one right there. I'll tell you that right now. We're not recording in the sauna.

That's not going to happen. Yeah, you can record me afterwards. Marshall's buyers travel far and wide, hustling for great deals on amazing gifts. So you don't have to. They've bagged this season's at. Italian leather handbags. Designer. Hand-picked the finest sweaters from the rest.

Ooh, cashmere. Blended makeup palettes from the brands you love. Brushes too. And hustled all those wishless topping toys. So plush. Our buyers have got you covered. Marshals. We get the deals.

You gift the good stuff. It's the matcha or the three ensemble Cado Cephora of the fates that I just niche that I'm energize o'clock. Mm, it's all-bendarm. The form of standard and mini-regrouped. What? What?

And the embellage, too beau, who is practically pre-to-do and I know I'd like these offrary. But I'm

guard the Summer Fridays and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. I'm just the most ensemble the gift is atopheera.

Summer Fridays Rare Beauty, way, Cepora Collection and other parts of Vite. Procurre you

these formats and mini, regrouped for a better quality of on Facebook. In online,

on MacGAS So Matt, we mentioned earlier of course UFC 293 this weekend. Israel, Adasania

defending his his title against Sean Strack Louis Voss is taking on Alexander Volkov in the co-main event, and then three other fights. And I say that not to disrespect the three other fights with the card. Manel Cop is fighting. I'm a big, big fan of Manel Cop.

But let's be honest, Matt, this is not the strongest pay for you to the UFC will promote this year. Yeah, that's right. Even the Adasani Strickland, I don't see a ton of, I mean, he's a 600 favorite. I looked at the odds today, Adasania. So, you know, I don't think there's a ton of hype behind us. I don't think anybody was really begging to see Strickland go fight Otisanya. But I'll tell you why, Strickland, you know, I'm favoring Otisanya picking him also. But Strickland is that guy, too.

You know what I mean? Like, he doesn't really give a shit. Like, he could go out there. He's the type of guy to pull off an upset, completely unexpected. And we wake up on Sunday, like, what the fuck just happened? I mean, is it, I mean, listen, it's a fight. Anything can happen. You know, you talk about the whole mandatory challenger in boxing.

A lot of the times when there's a mandatory challenger in boxing, you know, you're pretty much assuming they're going to get steamrolled by the champion. Like a lot of times that's what it feels like. Even though they're the mandatory challenger, we don't really feel like they're the toughest challenge for the champion in boxing. That's not the case in MMA. Like we all, going back to the whole Sean O'Malley thing, I think we'd all agree, Marabda Wailishvili is a tough matchup for Sean O'Malley. that's not necessarily the case here. Like, Sean Strickland on paper is not an incredibly hard fight for Israel Adasanya. He's a volume striker who comes forward.

Well, guess what? Adasanya is a sniper. He is a counterstriker with nasty counterstrikes. That is the last guy you want to go charging at. So either, in my opinion, Sean Strickland is either going to go forward and try to out volume out of Sonia and it's going to backfire spectacularly or, Strickland's going to back off and make Izzy come forward and then it's going to be five rounds of Izzy pop shot and him getting in and out of there and Strickland not engaging.

Like that's the downside of this fight. I don't think, I don't think Strickland presents a lot of danger to Adasana. I say that knowing full well, yes, an upset can happen. He could catch him. You know, he could catch him with a shot and stun him. We all are shocked out of our minds. But Matt, if you're asking me the honest truth here, do I see a lot of ways to victory? like when I'm sitting here, you're asking me, like, how can Sean Strickland win this fight?

He has a couple of ways. He can, you know, he could catch him, you know, catch him with a punch, which could happen in any fight in all of MMA. Or he could potentially somehow wear him down round after round and use that volume striking attack, the death of death by a thousand cuts, as I like to call it. And he used it that way. Problem is, no one's done that to Israel before. And he's fought everybody. He's what every kind of striker. I mean, Sean Strickland's good.

No one's going to say Sean Strickland isn't good. But if you're talking to just striking, Matt, just purely striking. Who's a better striker? Sean Strickland or Robert Whitaker. I would say Robert Whitaker is a better striker. You know what I mean? He couldn't really do a lot to Izzy. Did he do better in the rematch in the first fight?

Sure, but, you know, that's a grading on a scale. You know what I mean? He got absolutely demolished in the first fight. And then, you know, it was four rounds to one or whatever in the second fight. But, yeah, I'm just being honest, I don't see a lot of paths to victory for Sean Strickland this weekend. Like, that's not an underdog bet I'm looking to make. No, and I'm 100% right there with you. And I think we're the, because you can look at Sean's past fights and you compare, right?

Like, he fought Pereira. Like, that's a very good comparison, right? I mean, Pereira obviously has that left hook that, you know, Izzy doesn't necessarily have. But, you know, as in terms of level of kickboxer, And, you know, he was having success against Pereira, and then he got caught with that left hook. Izzy doesn't necessarily have that one punch, you know, that's going to change the whole fight. Now, he obviously can hit well and hit hard, so, you know, I think that's not completely out of question either. But I think the big question is, you know, what did Sean Strickland learn from fighting Alex

Pereira probably nothing you know i might be over analyzing a little bit here but um if he learned from alex Pereira and knowing that he's going up against a similar matchup with otisania you know he could change up his game plan and surprises now this is me i'm stretching i know that you know what i'm saying like i'm trying to find a way to be interested in this fight because i agree with you like on paper in all theory and all high hypothetical scenarios I see is he, you know, making a pretty easy night out of this, getting a big payday, having a great party in Sydney, Australia, you know, going home with maybe a, you know, a couple of, you know, busted up knuckles is probably the worst injury he's got to deal with. But I'm just saying, Strickland is that guy that, you know, I think he could surprise us. Like when I'm this confident or when we're this confident ever, that's when we get the surprise the most.

and Strickland's the type of guy to do that shit. See, I, well, I agree with what you're saying. Am I reaching too much? You're reaching too much, Matt. I think you are. And here's why I say that. You remember, we had, we very famously, when Izzy fought Pereira the first time in the UFC,

yes, they had history. And yes, obviously Pereira is a world-class striker, one of the best in all of MMA, period. And so there's a lot of Sonja, for that matter. There was just something in the air. And you and I said, I can't quite put our finger on, but we both pick prayer to win that fight. And he did. Now, he had to come back.

He was losing. He came back and beat him. Rematch, not much had changed. It had been six months, five months even, I think it was. And we both just said there's just something we know. Like, we both picked Israel out of Sonia. Like, there was just something about the fight. We're like, you know what?

Like, we're picking Izzy. And neither one of us could give a great excuse as to why it was going to change. But we both just said, no, we're picking Izzy. And sure enough, he knocked him out in one. This is one of those times where, yes, I. acknowledge the upset can happen. I acknowledge that Sean Strickland is a pretty good fighter, and he could find a way to win. But I'm reminded of Jared Cananeer, Marvin Vittori, the other guys who have kind of like, you know, gotten title shots, but no one was like banging the drum and saying,

man, this guy, you know, he's really the guy. He's the guy who, you know, there's real danger there. And Israel pretty much 50, 45 both those guys. Like, nothing happened out of the ordinary. The only thing that, like, happened out of the ordinary was, is he didn't go for the kill necessarily, but he won the fight. There was no question about it. So, yeah, if I sit here and try to talk myself into Sean Strickland, that's all I'm doing, man. I'm trying to talk myself into it to make it sound like it's more exciting than what it is. Israel and Ashana you should win this fight, going away. Like, my question is, does he finish it or does it become like a lopsided 50-44 decision? Like, that's my question. Like, does he get super

motivated in front of the Australia crowd to want to go out there and put Sean Strickland away? or is he going to be satisfied with, you know, a lopsided decision win? Because I don't see a lot of paths to victory for Sean Strickland. Sean Strickland doesn't have Pereira's power. He doesn't have that kind of, that fight changing, just like Canaanir. He doesn't have that one punch fight.

He couldn't just clip Adasanya and you're like, oh my God, he got him. Doesn't have that kind of power. He's a puncher, not much of a kicker, so we're very much talking about boxing. You know what I mean? We're not. He does have a ground game.

He never uses it. So it's like, where does he present a lot of danger to Israel, Adasania? I just don't see it. I 100% feel that. And I guess maybe where I'm giving him, where I'm really reaching here. And I recognize I'm reaching. Like, I'm trying to find a way to make this fight interesting, right? When you talk about Adasanya rematch and Pereira, you know, part of what I think maybe

we felt in the air a little bit was like, you know, Adasanya is a smart, cerebral fighter, right? He's a ninja, right? Like we know like he can adjust to shit. He can figure things out and find ways to do things. He game plans. He strategizes all those things. Sean Strickland does not or has not. And maybe what I'm reaching for here is maybe this time he strategizes a little different.

Like we again, like you said, we know he has a good ground game. We know that, you know, he's got maybe he's got something we haven't seen before, right? Because we kind of, we're all expecting the same Sean Strickland. we've seen in the past however many 10, 15, whatever fights. I'm saying he, I think he has the ability, potentially, the ability, whether he's got the brains I don't know, but I think he's got the ability to maybe pull some new tricks out of his sleeve. And maybe that's where I'm reaching.

I recognize I'm reaching. So, yeah, I talk shit about it, whatever. But that's, here's the problem with this fight, Matt, is that we're sitting here breaking it down and we have to talk ourselves into convincing. convincing ourselves to make it interesting because let's be honest this isn't all that interesting it's not really that interesting when your champion is a minus 600 favorite like it's not right you know like of course you know but and also we know enough about israel out of sanya to know that yes anyone can get caught we all understand that but in let you know this isn't ronda rousy

holly home where ronda we knew ronda was not a great striker we knew it and when as soon as Holly stopped her takedowns, we're like, this is going to get ugly in a hurry, and exactly that's what happened. We don't have those questions with Israel. We've seen him on the ground. We've seen him in dog fights. We've seen him get knocked down and get back up. We've seen him against everybody in the world.

You know, every top guy in the middleweight division from the time he fought Anderson Silva on, he fought everybody and beaten everybody. I don't have questions about Israel on Asana. I still have a lot of questions about Sean Strickland. So really, all I'm doing right now is, like, I'm talking myself into why. this fight should be interesting. Matt, this fight isn't all that interesting. It's just not.

I mean, Israel is a minus 600 favorite. I think those lines will be bigger by fight time. It'll be like a minus 800 favorites. Yeah. Hey, I totally accept that. I said, maybe I'm trying to reach just to make it interesting. But, you know, this fucking sport, bro, it's fucking ridiculous. But like you said, Adasana is proven.

I mean, I'm right there with it. He's proven. He's a fucking. dog. He's, you know, the odds, like he said, were they're lucky to be 600. Like, I'd probably put him closer to like 800 to 1,000. And, you know, he's going to walk through Strickland, most likely. And, yeah, it's probably not going to be overly excited.

Yeah, it's unfortunate because I think the Dracus fight would have been a lot bigger. And there was so much bad blood there, you know, they really don't like each other. And Dracus, I mean, listen, Drake is beating Robert Whitaker the way he did. I think that also does loom a little bit of a shadow, you know what I mean? Like, we all wanted that fight and now we're getting, like, I know it sounds terrible. Like we're, we wanted Dracus, we're getting Strickland. And it's kind of like, eh, it's like a letdown, you know what I mean? Like when you, like, that was a legitimate heat between those two.

And Dracus beating Whitaker opened a lot of eyes. Anyone who said he was just like a pretty good middleweight, he went out and beat, he stopped Robert Whitaker. I was the same, not just beating him, but that's fucking way he beat him. Yeah, he stopped him. Yeah. So, like, this is a. just about rivalry. This is this is both what we talked about with like the

Marab and Cheeto thing. This is a great storyline and he deserves it. Like it's the best cut. This is exactly what we want and we're not getting it. We're getting Sean Strickland. So that I think that's part of it too. Like we know there is like a great matchup out there we should be having but because the timing with

Dracus fighting in July hurting his foot and then the UFC turning around wanting to fight two months later. I don't blame Dracus at all but you know and I understand they want Izzy to headline Australia. All these things make sense. It's just unfortunate that we're getting Strickland and not Dracus. That's really what it comes down to. Yeah, it should probably be a watch Sunday morning fight.

Yeah. Can I ask real quick before we move on? I had an article go up today for my interview with Israel-A-San. You're talking about the fight that takes place in October between Hamzat Chimayev and Paulo Costa. Hamzot moving back to middleweight, taking on Paulo Costa, legit guy, super-tuff guy. is there a world where Hamzot beats Paulo Costa, whether it's submission or maybe knocks him out, I don't know, like he finishes Paul O'Costa. Is there a world where Hamzot leapfrogs Dracus?

Well, with the hype behind him, and I see it 100%. Like, they want him to be champion. He's going to call for it. I don't know if I say they want him to be champion. I don't know if UFC's necessarily like that. I don't think they necessarily want one guy or the other, but they love the hype.

And he would be hyped to them. max after that. I mean, he's had all the hype from the beginning. So he goes out there and, you know, Paula Costa is tough as they get. You know, he's a, you know, so I think it depends on how Hamza wins, but absolutely see that, can't you? Oh, yeah, 100%. I don't, like, I don't think he just walks through, no one is, outside of Israel, Adasana, no one has walked through Paul Ocas. Let me be clear about that. Like, Yoel Romero is, you know, one of the best guys of the last 20 years, and he didn't, you know, Paulo Costa had a freaking war with U.L. Romero, okay?

So I don't see Hamza just going out there and just laying ways to Paul O'Costa. Maybe he will, and I'll be, like, shocked out of my mind, but I don't think that's going to be an easy fight. But if he beats him and beats him convincingly, like, maybe he does get him in like an arm triangle, or maybe he just, you know, knocks him out. I mean, it's possible. I don't know, man.

Like that's, like I said, dude, we talk about all the time. It's about timing and opportunity. Is he fights in September? And we are mad if there's one. thing we both know about this sport. We are all prisoners of the moment in the sport. We were talking about Dracus in July. Izzy wins in September. If Hamzot goes

out there and knocks out or submits Paulo Costa in October, our attention is going to immediately shift to Hamzot because he's a star, he's a big name, undefeated, all these kind of things. And suddenly, Dracus becomes like the odd man out a little bit. Now, I'm not saying that's right or wrong. I'm just saying like there's a good

chance of that happening. Yeah. And like I said, I don't know if they wanted him to be the guy, if they just thought that he was the guy the whole time. But he's had this hype for a long time. And this is now he's finally fighting the guy to prove it. You know what I mean? Like Costa is like the guy.

Like if he goes out there and performs and beats him handedly, like we know he's for real. And it's not that he's fought Trump's already or anything. I mean, he fought Gilbert Burns and, you know, he's fought some really, really tough guys. But if he goes out there at 185 and dominates Costa, like, I mean, you got to be right there with the UFC. It is hard to deny him a title shot, so it's just going to come down to

you know, timing and you know, whatever kind of things after that. And stylistically, he does present an interesting matchup for Israel. He's a huge wrestler, you know what I mean? Like that is, I'm not, listen, I'm not saying Dracus isn't a tough matchup for Israel. Drake has proved

a lot of people wrong, myself included with what he did to Robert Whitaker. But you know, I would Hamzot's wrestling should scare anyone. Like, he's that good. Like, that should be a scary factor for anyone. So, I mean, stylistically, that presents an interesting matchup for Israel at 185 that he really hasn't fought. I mean, he fought Derek Brunson before he was championed.

And Derek is an incredibly good wrestle, but Derek's never been that top. He's never quite been number, you know, number one and number two. And he beat Yoel Romero, and we all know what YOL is. I mean, Yol is an incredible fighter when he shows up and really gets into a fight. but they're and he's never Yoel has never truly put his wrestling to work in MMA he's now like he's a silver medalist in wrestling but he's never been like the wrestler in MMA he's kind of been the anti-wrestler in a lot of ways

you just can't take him down really but he'll you know he'll beat you up on the feet homestine has no problem taking you down and putting you down a mall on you there you know what I mean so like that's it like that's interesting I'm not saying it's right or wrong that he would jump Dracus but I'm saying it's interesting well yeah if you look at it from the UFC's perspective too like who do you want to be the champion or or fight for the title who's going to get more hype who's going to get more pay per views right they're in business to sell paper views that's their their business model who sells more it's hard to say it's not going to be homzat right yeah i mean dracus and israel would be big homzot and israel i think would be bigger but being honest like it's a bigger fight and you can promote it any number of places like yes they've talked about taking is he and Dracus to Africa, which would be a huge moment. They're both, you know, obviously, Drake is from South Africa,

Izzy's from Nigeria. It would be a big moment. And if they go to, if they go there, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. But if they're not going there, does that fight really sell as much as if you can take home, you can go to Abu Dhabi with that fight? That's huge. Obviously, Hamzat's got a huge fan base over there. You got to Australia with that fight.

That's massive there for Israel. You can take that fight to Vegas, and it's massive. Hamzot and Izzy and Vegas is massive. there's a reason why we were talking about fights like who deserves and who doesn't I've heard rumors

I don't know if you've heard this too Matt I've heard rumors the UFC is going to is looking at let me be clear this is not a done deal I've heard rumors the UFC's talking about

going to China before the end of the year and as soon as I heard that I was like well they're going to book Zhang Wei and Yan Jan Jan Jan because even though

I think Tatiana Suarez is probably the toughest matchup at 115 if they go to China and Zhang is healthy and Yan Zhao Nan is healthy well of course

they're going to put that fight on there. It's a massive fight. Two Chinese fighters in China fighting for a UFC championship. That is insane. That will get billions of views in China. Of course they're going to do that one. And this is kind of like the same thing here. Like yes, if you can take it to Africa,

Izzy and Dracus is a massive fight. But if you could take Hamzot, who's already a star, put it in Vegas, put it in Australia, put it in Abu Dhabi, any of those places. It's going to be a huge fight. It's a lot. Yeah. Oh, dude. Massive.

Massive. I mean, Homzad is a star. We can't deny that. Homzad is a star. And also, if he beats Paulo Costa, that's a legit win.

Like, it's not like he wouldn't have a good win on his record. He would be beating Paulo Costa. Yeah, so it's going to get interested. And, you know, again,

you've got a knowledge sport goes, too. Like, so many different things could play out between now and then, you know, I think the UFC's kind of sitting back. Like, these are, these are good problems to have,

right? I think we got some, real matchups for some real big cards for Adasanya next. So, you know, hopefully he gets through this fight with Strickland, which in all respects he should. And then there's nothing but big things coming after that. And I say more prior to Adasanya, man.

I love that dude. I think he's earned everything that he's got and he deserves everything he's got. And he's such a good person, man. So I'm happy to see all the success he's having. and, you know, those are some tough fights for him. But I, you know, I'm always cheering for that guy, man. I love him. I love Izzy.

I had a chance to interview him before this fight. We always have great conversations. Incredibly good dude. But also what I love about this right now is he has options again. Because it looked like for a little while, like he kind of cleaned out middleweight. And so we're talking about maybe he's going to go light heavy. He did light heavy way for one fight. He's going to do some other things.

Now he has a couple of good options. Like obviously, listen, we're picking him to beat Strickland. Sorry, Sean. I'm picking Israel to win this weekend. He has Dracus and he might have Hamzot in a month. Like those are two great options. And guess what? Dracus is already out there.

He doesn't even need Hamzot to win. He could just go Dracus. But if Hamzat wins, he's got two great contenders, two great competitors, two really sellable fights. Israel's in a great position right now, man. Like, I love to see that because that's like we got to that point where during Anderson Silva's reign where he kind of was just fighting like whoever was there. And then finally, Chelsan came along.

And that gave us like a real, a real, like, enemy, a real villain. And then obviously Chris Wyman, you know, beat him. But, like, there was a time there when it was like the Tolis-Latte's fight and the Patrick Cote fight. And there's like three in a row, four in a row were kind of like, eh. Like, you know, it just wasn't interesting that much because Anderson was a massive favorite against all those guys. And then he came back around to where Chale was this huge rival. That's what Israel's getting right now. He has a big rival in Dracus and he could have a big rival in Hamzod.

So it's a good time. Yeah, what a great time for the sport, man. That's the whole thing. There's so many guys coming up now. I don't think we're going to see those Anderson Silva days again, right? Or even, I think GSP was kind of getting there too, right? He had nine title defenses and yeah, he was up there. Yeah, I mean, Demetrius Johnson was certainly there where, you know, it was just like,

who do you fight, brother? There's nobody coming up anymore. And, you know, just fighting the next guy that is available. kind of like what Israel is doing this weekend. Like, you know, that's not what the UFC wants, right? They want, you know, a stack top 10 contenders, you know, with stars to be able to come up and fight. So I find out hard to believe that we're going to be going through that very much more.

And especially like with the way they're recruiting some of guys now between the Ultimate Fighter, Dana White Contenders series, and, you know, still just signing guys up, you know, from big promotions. and, you know, the sport is just growing so fast. And, you know, the athletes are just, the athleticism is just fucking phenomenal, man. It's just coming up every freaking year, it seems like.

And we're still a couple years away from it, Matt. So I don't know. Israel may not even be around at that point because, you know, he's in his 30s. He may want to fight for a couple of years and walk away. I have no idea. But I got two words for you. Bo, Nickel.

That dude's coming up. And that dude's a star and that dude's a monster. Like that. Israel may be gone before Bo Nicol gets to that level. Bo Nichols like four and O right now. So he's got some time, five and O, whatever it is. He's got time. But in a couple years' time, when he's ready, assuming he continues the run he's been on,

dude, that would be massive. I just don't know. But that's what we're talking about. Like the division's going to continue rolling, and there's going to be new guys out there. Well, I want to see if Hamzot wins. I want to see him fight Bo Nickel. I just, I want to see that. I mean, I think Hamzout would probably have the striking event.

right now, but, boy, them two wrestling, I'd love to see it, man. You're not, there's, no one is going, no one at middleweight, currently fighting in mixed martial arts is going to out-wrestle-baud-nichael. I'll just say that right now. You're not going to do it. You're not going to, you're not going to out wrestling. In MMA, it can happen. It can.

It can. It can. It can. It absolutely can. And I know, like, his buddy from Penn State, who is a gold medalist, like, David Taylor, has hinted maybe he would do M. David Taylor would be like number one right away. Like he has multiple wins over Bo Nickel.

Like he stopped Bo Nickel from going to the Olympics. Like David Taylor is a gold medalist. There's been a little bit of hint maybe he would try it. That's a dude. But that's the fun part about this. Like there's so many scenarios and that's what's fun about it, I guess. And we keep, I know, I keep rolling it back to like trashy poor Sean Strickland. But like that's, I think what's a little disappointing about the main event this week.

And it's like we don't have those feelings about Sean Strickland. We have her Dracus. we have for Hamza. We're even talking about Bo Nickel kind of excited. We don't have that feeling for Sean Strickland. I'm just being honest. Well, I'll tell you what, on that point, you know, like having my own gym and having these guys that are coming up

and then, you know, seeing kids from other gyms, bro, some of these 13, 14-year-old kids today, these kids are fucking levels of, I mean, but it's unreal what's going on out there right now. These kids that are coming up, I got a kid in my gym, man. this next generation is just going to be, you know, we've seen the sport evolve a lot from the beginning, obviously,

but it's not going to stop evolving anytime soon. And this next generation that's starting to come up now, we're starting to see little hints over here, and these guys that came up in all the different disciplines, plus they got the solid wrestling, plus they got, you know, the boxing and striking, and these kids have been competing since they were little. What we're about to see in the next 10 years is going to be absolutely fucking mind-blowing.

I agree. We're getting kids, you know, and it's already happened, but we're getting more and more kids who've grown up as mixed martial artists. Like, they're not growing up as I went to karate and I went to jujitsu and then I became a mixed martial artist. They're growing up as mixed martial artists, learning all of it and being really damn good at it. Here's a quote. Real quick before we get out of here, Matt. Talk about the next generation, the young guys coming up. this past weekend of course we saw or maybe last week we saw that paul felder of course ufc legend

really good dude he's actually coasted this show a few times uh breaking down fights and uh actually doing yearly previews we did one for uh 20 22 and i think we did one for 2023 as well uh looking ahead of the year ahead and kind of picking champions and things like that incredible commentator paul is teasing a potential comeback he's back into usada pool and he said i don't know if i'm going to fight yet or not but you know i'm going to jump back into usadipool just in case because it takes six months. Word to Connor McGregor, just so you know, it takes six months.

You can get tested and come back and fight. This is a whole podcast, so I don't want to, like, go way off on a tangent here and talk for 40 minutes about it. This is a whole podcast of itself, but Matt, you're like, I've always appreciated the Joe Lozahn approach to retirement, the word retirement.

Joe has told me many times, I'll probably never retire. I'll just stop fighting. Like, there will come a day where I just won't take a fight again. And that'll be it. I won't really retire. I'll leave the door open.

And that's kind of where Joe's at now. Like Joe has said, like, I might fight again. I might not. Okay, cool. But like, the retirement, you shut the door on that and then you come back. Like, no one ever stays retired. Like, I thought, like, Michael Bisping's staying retired made sense. He's had so many issues.

He's had two knee replacements. His eye. Like, we know Michael Bisping's not coming back. But that's just because we physically understand he cannot safely come back and fight again. I could have swore when Paul Felder, because Paul Felder had the commentary gig, and he's really good at it, by the way. Paul Felder's an incredible commentator.

I would have said, I think he's done. He's doing acting stuff. He had a couple TV show gigs recently. Like, I thought Paul was done. And now he's coming back. Dude, no one stays retired in the sport, Matt. Like, I don't, I wish people just wouldn't use the word. I heard that.

I don't even like the word personally because, again, I've mentioned this the other day. Other than like Connor McGregor or Anderson Silva, you know, the John Jones the big stars, like guys aren't retiring from the sport. Like we don't make enough money to retire.

All we're doing is switching professions or making money a different ways, right? So, but that's the reason I don't like the word retirement, but you know, the sport's fucking amazing, man. And I don't know how guys, I mean, I did the same thing. I retired in 2017.

And it was about, you know, six months later, I was like, dude, this fucking sucks. And I don't go out and fight again. You know, that itch, when you step in there into that octagon and you fight another man, there's just no way to replace that, man. And there's just a huge hold left in you. And I don't know, like, how you can possibly replace that. And, you know, and again, when it comes down to, like, you know, the finances, that's, kind of why I bring that up. It's like, you know, we just find a different profession. But there's

nothing else that you can put, you're not going to get your ROI on something else, you know, the way you can once you start making some money in the sport, right? Like I make 125, 125, right? So if I win, I get 250. I'll lose. I make 125. Like, there's nothing else that I can do where I can put, you know, just put my life on hold for two months and go make $125,000. minimum, potentially make, you know, $250 or $300. It's like, and you're doing, you know, what you love so much. And, you know, Paul Feldor's got to sit there in that booth every week and watch these guys. And you know every time, I mean, like you say, he's an excellent commentator,

but you know, in the back of his mind every time he's like, dude, I could take that guy. He's like, you know, oh, I see the mistake he's doing. You know, so we're studying these fights all the time and just like, you see all the mistakes. and you're just like, man, I could go do that again. And it's like, well, what am I doing with myself? You know, there's, it's hard to find a purpose. It's hard to find a direction. You know, a lot of guys go through a depression, right?

Mark Coleman's a perfect example. Like when, you know, he never officially retired. But when he quit fighting, he was like, you know, had no direction in life. He was like, what do I do with myself? Like, this is who I am. This is my identity. So I think it's a complicated thing. We always like to boil it down to money, and I do understand that.

Like, there are guys who come back from retirement for the wrong reason. Like, there are. I mean, you know that too, Matt. Some guys come back for the wrong reason. But one thing that I always sympathize with fighters who come back is because of what you just said. I'm not a fighter. From the outside looking in, I'm thinking, man, Paul Feldier has a great right now. He's got a commentary gig.

He's calling fights every other weekend. He's got acting. He's doing podcasts. He's successful. He's made a career outside the cage successfully. He's not hurting, like financially and in terms of like just staying busy, right? Like he's found a career outside of fighting. But as you just said, nothing can replace that feeling of fighting.

Nothing. Calling every fight in the universe, stepping on set in Hollywood. None of that is the same. And that's why I have to take a step. back and I said this when we talked about Chris Weidman. The reason, generally the only time I like to call for a guy to retire is when I'm worried about his health.

Like brain health usually, brain damage is what I'm usually talking about. Like when they're just taking five knockouts in a row, I don't want to see that. Like I don't want to see a dude like, you know, 20 years from now. He can't, you know, communicate because he's had so much brain damage. Like, I don't want that for anybody. So that's generally the time when I'll say, that dude should just walk away. Like, I just don't want to see that guy get hurt anymore. But outside of that, I can't comprehend it, but I try to understand it.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not a fighter. So I can't put myself in your shoes. And also, at the end of the day, Matt, you and I both know there is still a limited window. Like, you can't, like, you know you're not going to be 55 fighting. But if you got that window at 38, 39, 40, and you're still physically able and you're still in good shape and you still feel. feel good. Man, I could do one more, two more.

I can only understand that. I've not been there. So that's why I said, like, Paul Felder wants to come back. Like in my head, I'm like, why, man? You got this great career. You got a blah, blah, blah. But it's not fighting. It doesn't take the place to fighting.

Why do you think when Paul Felder goes to Singapore or all these other place he travels to, he's always hitting pads with coaches? He still loves it. he still loves it he's just not doing it right now and he got that itch to do it again so that's why like my only request matt i'm saying this in all honesty my only request every fighter out there anyone who listens this just don't retire do the joe lozahn plan just stop taking fights you know what i mean like just don't fight and then if you come back one day we're not like oh he's coming out of retirement no joe fights if joe lozan fights tomorrow he's not fighting he's not coming out of

we could say he's fighting for the first time in two years or whatever the number would be, but he's not coming out of retirement. Stop. That's my only request, Matt. Stop using the word retirement because I have no problem. Paul Felder, when he walked away, no part of me was like, man, Paul Felder needs to stop, man. He just, he doesn't look good.

No, he could have absolutely, he was still a top 10 lightweight when he walked away. Yeah, well, it's tough too when, like, you know, when he walked away, he probably had every plan to walk away. I mean, I did the same thing. Like when I retired, I had every plan to walk away. But, you know, when you got that inside of you, like, how do you get rid of it? Right? And you've got to create an entire new identity for yourself, right?

You're no longer a fighter. That's no longer, like, that's not who you are anymore. That's who you were. You know, Joseph Benavides was an interesting one where I talked with him about it a little bit. And, you know, he doesn't even go in the gym anymore. You know, I think he said he will, like, for his friends or whatever, or help out, you know, somebody that he likes or something like that. But he doesn't even really go train.

He's like, I don't even want to be around it. And like, so when you can step that far away, I think it's a, you might even need to do that. You know, like when I retired, for instance, I mean, I opened a gym. I was still around it every day. I was like, dude, why am I doing this shit and not going and fighting? You know? And, you know, so Felder is probably very similar where it was like, you know,

he's watching it every day. Like, he's still very involved. in the sport, but just not doing the one thing that got him into the sport that he wanted to do from, you know, however old, 15 years old or whatever. Yeah. And I think what we also have to realize is it goes beyond one reason. Like, as I said, do guys come out of retirement for the wrong reason, sometimes financially? Yes, I do believe that happens where guys are, as you said, you can't make one night paycheck

and earn what you earn in one night in the UFC. and obviously you're in a little different case you're a vet when you've been around for a while, but even $30,000, even $30,000. You're not typically going to make that in one night's work anywhere, unless you're a professional gambler or something. You're not going to make $30,000. I never chuck it up to one night's work.

It's going to be a train. I'm saying, like, yeah, but I'm saying like, you know, that, but do I think some guys come back for the wrong reason? Sure. But I think that's still the minority. I think the majority, it's a multitude of reasons. It's, there is part of it, like you said, $250,000 for, you know, putting three months, you said take, you're like basically putting three months your life on hold and fighting.

You can't earn $250,000 doing anything else in that three months. The competition. But, like, that's what, like, there's a multitude of reasons is what I'm getting at. Like, it's not just one thing. Like, we can't just say, well, he's broke. He needs the money. That's not necessarily the case. In your case, like, you don't necessarily need to fight, but you love it.

That's why you're doing it. And I'm sure. Paul Feldar, I'm sure, has. money. I'm sure it's that none of this has anything to the financial. We can see he has a career. He has a career that is clearly paying his bills, right? You don't get, you're not on TV in the UFC every other week and you're not making a pretty decent income. Okay. But this isn't that for him. It's like you said, that fire, that, that intensity, that competition, that feeling, that just doesn't go away. And you said, and I agree, he said they're calling these fights every

week. That's probably even harder. Exactly. Yeah. And you know, I know, and you never know someone's personal finances either, you know, like if people blow money, if they don't save it right. You know, I don't know what these guys get paid to commentate. So, you know, so that I kind of try to stay away from that because you just simply don't know. Like, that could very well be a motivating factor, you know. But that's okay too, right? Like there's nothing wrong with that. Like, we are prized by. That's what we do. So, like, what's wrong with fighting for money? You know, if he's like, hey, you know, I just want another paycheck. You know, I just, I want to go buy a fucking, you know, an AMG or fucking G-wagon. Right? He's like, if I go fight, I'll make the money to do that.

You know, like, that's understandable, right? There's nothing wrong with that. That's what we do as a prize fighter. You go fight for a fucking prize. So, you know, I don't fault people for that. either. But, you know, to your point, you know, never trust a fighter when he says he's retired. You know, motherfuckers ain't never really retired. That's just the fact, right? We're never actually retired. There's always, there's always something that can get us back if you're a real fighter.

Yeah. Oh, I, that's what I said. Like, I, that would be my only argument. Stop using the word retirement. Like, I got no problem if you come. Like, I'm cool if Paul comes back. Paul's a damn good fighter he's exciting fun great dude i mean just one of the best people in the sport like i don't say i say it about i say people are good but like i can say honestly i've hung out with paul felder at like at like um events and stuff incredibly good dude like as good a dude as you'll be in this sport um an incredible fighter i have zero problem he wants to fight again i just stop use the word don't use the word retire because as you said don't believe it that's what we've all we all joke around saying like m m m mary retirements because none of

of us believe it. Like none of us should believe it. Like, none of it, like, the one, the one guy who says he's going to fight isn't going to fight is Connor McGregor, and then everybody else is actually going to fight. Right, right. Well, I get your point, but in the same time, like I said, when he retired, so to speak, he probably had every intention to retire, too, right? He probably didn't know that those inches were going to be so strong. Yeah. And I think Paul, I don't know how Paul is that I have to look at it. I think he's like 38 or 39. I said, there is a window. Eventually that window will close.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, you can't decide at 47 and being gone for a decade that you're going to come back. Like, it's still in that window at time where he's been retired for like three years or whatever. He's still an incredible shape. He's doing triathlons and shit like that. Like, he's still in that window, that competitive window where he can come back and still perform in the UFC, right? That will close. There is a day that will come where that's no longer an option.

Or maybe in the UFC, it would be like, dude, no, we can't, like, you're 49, like, you haven't fought in a decade. Like, we're not going to have you back. Like, it's just not a good idea. There, that window, so you're in that competitive window where you're like, you know what, I could fight. I feel like fighting. And I'm still young enough.

Like, there is, like I said, all the factors are there for him to come back because there is a day, like that day will come where you will be too old or just your body just isn't there for you anymore to do it. Well, guess what? His body's still there. He's still an incredible shape. I mean, I don't have a problem. with it. I just think it's hilarious. I think I absolutely think it's hilarious. Like, dude, just

stop using the word retirement. I agree with you. I agree with you. I'm sure he had every intention. I joked with him when we did the preview show. I think it was this year. I joked to them about coming back and he's kind of laughing at me. Because that was right after, I think Connor had taken a shot at him over something. I was like, you should come back and fight. That'd be a great fight. And he kind of laughed. And I was like, dude, it would be a big fight. Like, whatever. I'm trying to convince him to come back. So I don't care that. I'm happy he's back. I just think it's hilarious because like no one's ever. So by the way, speaking of the preview show, how did you guys do on your predictions so far?

Not well on my end because I can't remember all of his, but I know mine did not go well because I didn't. I remember I thought Kamar Usen was going to beat Leon Edwards in the rematch. That didn't happen. Try to remember what else. I thought Valentina would stay champion. That didn't happen. Try to remember what other ones I had. I think I may have predicted John Jones being champion if he comes back so I might have gotten that one right. Oh, that was a real tough one. I know, I know, real tough one there. Israel, I'm pretty sure I predicted him still being champion or getting the championship

back at that point. I think that was like, because he had already lost Alex at that point. I think I had him winning the title back. So I don't know. I was probably like four for 10. It was not a great average because what we did was we were predicting who would be champions at the end of the year. And that's harder because you're talking about like, you know, it could be two,

maybe three title defenses. So it's hard to predict. Like Leon Edwards beat Kamar Usman. He may fight one more time this year against Colby Covington, but we still don't even know if that's going to happen. So he may go to rest this year and not fight. Like, that's it. But then you got Adasanya who's about to have his third fight this year or whatever.

So or second, I can't remember. So, yeah, it all depends. Like, it's harder to predict. Yeah, we're going to have to go back and listen and write them down and check it out at the end of the year. My shame of my bad picks, yes. I won't be shocked by my shame. Yeah, everybody picks, MMMA. bad. There's no fucking way to do it good.

Everything changes every day in the sport. Yeah. Well, we're sitting here trying to talk ourselves into being interested in Sean Strickland and Israel and Asana. No, in full while we're both picking Israel and Sanya. So that's just how the sport goes. Like I said, well, to be fair, I tried to talk to you into it and you didn't take debate. No, I did not take debate. I'm sorry. And you know what? If I'm wrong, I'll clearly say I'm wrong.

I just don't think I'm wrong. So, I don't think you're wrong either. This is one of those times where I feel fully confident where I'm like, you know what, I feel pretty good about my pick here. Yeah, I'm with you on it, too. At least we have the same pick. I just try to convince you, and it didn't work at all. It did not work at all.

But hey, we got a great, we'll talk about the card next week, and then, of course, we'll roll right into another big card because we got the Noce UFC card taking place right after this with Valentina Shepchenko and Alexa Grasso rematching next weekend. So that's going to be a great card. So we'll break that down on next week's show and also the fallout from UFC 293, which you will be watching on Sunday morning,

not Saturday night, I'm sure. So we'll have all that to talk about. And then the rematch with Alexa and Valentina. So that should be fun. So lots more coming, man. The train does not stop. We got a lot of fight cards coming up over these next couple of months going into October and November. So, yeah, we got lots of fights.

Yep, looking forward to it, bro. A lot of Sunday morning watches. I love it. I love it. We mentioned, of course, the great team hooking you up with Asana. Anywhere else anyone can check out where they can check out what you got going on, Matt Brown. I am the immortal Instagram and Twitter at the Immortal Coffee. Let's go.

Love it. We'll be back next week with another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. We appreciate everyone to listen to the show. Make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. And, of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you that.