MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown ‘Very Confident’ Israel Adesanya Gets His Revenge Against Alex Pereira; Carla Esparza Promises to Prove Doubters Wrong at UFC 281

Episode Date: November 8, 2022

It’s UFC 281 fight week on The Fighter vs. The Writer with Matt Brown back as co-host to help break down all the key storylines and matchups taking place on Saturday. Brown will give his thoughts on the main event as Israel Adesanya defends his middleweight title against Alex Pereira after they clashed twice previously in kickboxing, Brown offers his thoughts on the matchup and why he’s “very confident” that Adesanya will get his revenge after falling to Pereira twice previously. The veteran UFC welterweight will also give his picks some of the biggest matchups on the card including Dustin Poirier vs. Michael Chandler. The podcast also pays tribute to Frankie Edgar as he prepares to retire from competition after his fight at UFC 281. Brown will also address why so many fighters face tremendous difficulties when retiring from mixed martial arts and staying away after calling it a career. UFC strawweight champion Carla Esparza also joins the show to preview her fight against Zhang Weili and how she feels as a sizeable underdog going into her first title defense since winning the belt back in May. All this and much more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. Welcome back to the Fighter vs. The Writer, I'm Damon Martin. He is Matt Brown, UFC Welterweight, and legend in his own right. Matt, what's going on?

Man, everything's going on, bro. some good fights coming up. Some pretty decent fights last weekend, actually. You know, for not a lot of famous fights, but I thought they're pretty good, man. Yeah, when you start the podcast with a sigh, I always wonder what's wrong. I'm like, oh, here we go. What happened? What's going on?

No, I had to think for a second. God, what is going on, man? Yeah. There's so much going on all the time. Your guy last weekend, your guy, Neil Magny went out there, got a big win, a former training partner and a guy you know very well, broke the record for the all-time wins in the Walter Way Division, which you're in that list as well in the top five.

I said it the other day. I was like, dude, I don't know how well you know, Neil. Like, I just know him through, you know, interviews and stuff. But, like, Neil is like, Neil's one of those dudes. Like, it's hard not to root for Neil Magny. Like, he is such an incredibly nice guy. And, like, you know, will he ever be champion? I have a hard time believe in that.

I don't ever discount anybody. But the fact that he's, you know, 20 wins in the year. UFC is a huge accomplishment. Like he kind of downplayed it, but dude, that's a huge deal. Yeah, like what a nice guy he is. And just one of the most giving people you'll ever meet and one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet deserves everything he's got, man. Like he's one of the hardest workers who'll ever meet and just puts in the time,

you know, just gets in there and does the job, man. And he's going to cause everybody problems. Daniel Corby said it perfect. Like, you want to get to the elite. You got to get through Neil Magnet. absolutely it's a fun i told this story uh off air over the week and i'll tell it real quick here what defined neil magni for me was years ago he was fighting i want to say it was on what i think it was the fight for the troops card he was fighting on but i can't remember which one it was but anyways

we were supposed to do an interview i was at the event we were supposed to do an interview and he didn't show up i was in like the lobby waiting for me he didn't show up and i was like uh you know no big deal it happens like you know no worries and i get a call like an hour later from his manager saying neal uh we got caught up in some something he feels so bad. Could he do the interview now? And it was like 9 o'clock at night. And it was the night before weigh in.

So he's weight cutting. And I'm like, oh, dude, it's totally okay. Like, it's totally fine. He's like, no,

no, he came down like from his room, met me in the lobby, apologized profusely. Like, I'm so sorry, man. I'm so sorry. And I was like,

dude, like I didn't expect you to come down. Like, I totally understood. But like that's the kind of guy, Neil Magni is. Like he went out of his way, weight cutting just to come down.

We did the interview, but I was like, dude you really don't have to do this like it's totally cool like i appreciate you apologize and but like do your weight cut he's like no no bro i promised i promised i promised and like i was just like that's the kind of dude neil magnia's like he just he went out of his way to literally come downstairs in the hotel apologize first off which he didn't need to uh and and you know still do the interview when he again didn't need to in weight cutting mode and i'm like this that's the kind of guy neil magni is absolutely man 100% that's a perfect story description

Neil Maggi, man. I say he deserves everything he's got. And I hope that he gets for a championship someday, man. That's the kind of guy I'd like to see, have all the success in the world. And he's the type of guy that would come out of nowhere and end up winning a title that you just wouldn't expect. Like, he has so much, he has such gifts that are just unexpected. You know, I train with him a lot. And, you know, his length, obviously, his cardio, he's way stronger than he looks.

and yeah, you know, he's going to give anybody a hard time, anybody. Yeah, before we get to fights, of course, this weekend, UFC 281, that's what we're going to spend the majority of our time talking about today, a fight that I think you are incredibly excited for, which is Israel Adasanya against Alex Paheya in the main event. Before we get there, though, we always talk a little about music, Matt. Did you go to the concert last Friday, were you? The Trinity of Territor?

You weren't there, were you? I wasn't at any concert. The shirt I'm wearing. Ice stand kills, motionless and white, Blackville Brides. No, no, no, no Matt Brown. I was like, where are you at here? Come on, it's a metal show. No, man, I had my kids last weekend,

so we were doing our thing. And, yeah, you know, like, I go when I can, and then don't go other times, you know. You know, do you know? I'm actually working on making my own few songs right now. So that could be pretty cool. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know we're talking about doing Machine Head later this month, right?

Like, that's coming up in November. Yeah, that's coming up in November. You and I are going to, that's, I feel like we got a video blog that one. You and I had a machine head show. But you know what I realized? I've been to a thousand concerts. And I've been to a lot of sold-out shows. And I've been to a lot.

I've been in the pit for a Slayer show. I've been like, you know, whatever. The show, I think it was at, in Colorado, we're in Columbus, Ohio. It's Kimba Live. Used to be Express Live. So you know where I'm talking about. indoor venue pretty big you know it's not huge it's not an arena but it's a pretty big venue sold out right for this concert concert was sold out i got in a little late because i i missed the opening

band which is a tray you i got there a little bit late right before motionless and white played and i realized one thing in that moment when i got into that venue and it was sold out and i'm in the back of the room i'm like you know what i realized i'm starting to get too old to be around this many people for a concert because back of the day dude i would have fought my i would have fought my way to the front, I would have jumped right in the middle of the pit. I would have slam dance and head banged with every lunatic in that crowd. Dude, I don't have the tolerance for it anymore. Like, people were touching me and rubbing up against me.

And I was like, dude, don't touch me. Don't rub up against me. Like, I was like, I'm getting too old to be at sold out shows. I can't believe you're just not getting there. Well, no, I haven't been to like, I haven't been to like a truly sold out show in a while. Like, this was sold out, sold out, like packed to the brim. Like, people standing against the back, like where the murder.

tables were like that's how packed it was like I feel like they oversold this venue I haven't been to a show that packed in a while and I was just like oh I think I was just like I don't have tolerance for being around people this much like people kept rubbing on me someone spilled their drink on someone next to me came real close to me I was like this is a good way for me to punch someone in a concert you spill your beer on me like I was just like I'm like I feel like I'm finally too old to be in a sold-out show yes I realized that about 10 years ago like you know you know you know know, like first time I think I got backstage and watched the show backstage or the first time I sat in a suite or, you know, you just get spoiled real quick.

You're like, dude, what the fuck of those people doing down there? Dude, you remember a few years ago we went here in Columbus, you and I went, did backstage for a five-figure death punch. And we were up on the mezzanine backstage for that. And it was like really cool experience. We're kind of like looking down at them as they're performing. Yeah. And there's like the crowds out there going in.

saying, I'm like, I realized that that was also a moment when I realized, like, I can't be in that crowd. Like, I could not be in that insane. Like, I went to, I saw a Vinge sevenfold the night before and I was up in the stands, which wasn't crazy. You know what I mean? I was up out of the general admission. But like, you're right.

Like, when I was a dude, that's so privileged though. We're like backstage hanging out of like the deck watching them. We're like, yeah, we can't, we can't be down among the common people anymore. Well, the funny part is when we were younger, you probably had the same experience as me. you'd look up, you know, we'd be down on the mosh pit or whatever, you'd look up and you see the old people sitting in the stands, oh, them fucking old pussies. And now we're the old pussies looking at them.

Like, I'm dumb young guys. I don't know how they do it. Yeah, yeah, it's without a doubt, without a doubt. So, UFC 281 this weekend, a lot of good fights on this card. Before we talk about any of the breakdown stuff, any of the fight stuff, because I know we're going to talk a lot about Adasania and Perhega, because I know you are a big kickboxing guy, and you've watched those fights.

so we've talked about them off the air as much we're doing on the air. But I want to ask real quick, Matt, as we talk about this card coming up, Frankie Edgar has announced this is his last fight, his retirement fight. I had him on the podcast a few weeks ago. I know we toss around the word legend a lot in this sport, probably more than we should, because it kind of diminishes the word a little bit when you use the word legend so often.

But I would argue Frankie Edgar is the epitome of a legend. I mean, this guy won a lightweight title in division. He had no business being in. I mean, let's be honest. Like, he's never been a lightweight. Like, you see, you see him now standing in a lot of, like, Dominic Cruz, and he's still a little bit shorter. And then you think about, like, Makachev and Olavera and some of the guys who are fighting

a lightweight now, Frankie was the champion of that division. Champion there, top contender, title contender at 145, top contender, top 10 guy at 135. Now he's calling it a career. And I'm pretty sure you've shared her car with Frankie before in the past, haven't you? I'm sure that I have. I don't remember particularly though but I know Frankie I knew him from way back in the day

not close or anything but I've always known who he is and I was at Ricardo Major Jim before and he was there but long long time ago yeah Frankie dude Frankie is one of those people man like when this like when when we write you know stories about the sport

or we talk about people in the sport like there's I don't know there there will ever be another Frankie Edgar. Like he's kind of like Neil Magdy. Like just an incredibly nice, good dude, did everything the right way, never took any shortcuts, fought everybody. I mean, you know, fought anybody and everybody in every weight class, never turned down fights.

I mean, he has a winner for Charles Oliveira. I mean, he's, you know, I mean, when you look, I mean, the dude, like, I can't say enough good things about Frankie Edgar. Like, the dude is just a legend. Like, when we talk about that old school mentality of the fighter, like you, of course, embody that, Matt, like yourself. like Frankie's one of those guys. We talk about like the guys who just embodied that like old school badass fighter.

Frankie Eggers is one of those dudes. Yeah, I'm right there with you, man. So much respect for that guy. Like you said, just undersized and still found a way, man. And I mean, his fights with Gray Maynard, like, Jesus, like, what about some wars right there? Like, you know, you thought that that was going to take that. I probably took 10 years off his life, you know. But he had a lot of those wars, man.

And yeah, so much respect for him. It sucks, man. You know, we're all getting older and the game's moving on. But we got a whole new group of legends coming in and all of the old guys going out. Yeah, it's like, and weirdly, like, because we talk about retirement in the sport. And, like, I have a weird, like, relationship with retirement

because, like, when Yawani and Jacek announced her retirement, I was legitimately kind of bummed because I know Yowana very well. I talked to Yona, you know, both on and off the air. I love her to death. Like she's one of the sweetest, nicest, kindest people I've ever met. And she's such an awesome fighter to watch perform. And seeing her lose and then retire is kind of bummed because I'm like, oh man, like, yeah, it sucks. You lost.

But like, you know, I still think she's one of the best in the world. And I have no doubt that she could go out there and become champion again. The flip side of that, though, is I'm glad she's going on her terms because you and I both know we've seen the horror stories in the sport are people who don't know when to call it quits. You know, we're talking about guys, you know, go on and five, six knockouts in a row, coming back when they shouldn't be coming back, you know, doing it for the wrong reasons. Maybe they're doing it for money or they just don't know any other way. But like, in a weird way, like, Frankie's going out on his own terms.

Like, he's choosing this to be his retirement fight. Like, he's choosing this moment to say goodbye. When loser draw, he wants this final moment and he's choosing it. Because, again, I always use this phrase a lot. And I'm not, maybe it was, you may have been the one that said it the first time when I heard it. You want to retire from the sport. You don't want the sport to retire you. Absolutely. I definitely said that before. And we all want to retire from the sport. But, yeah, the only sad thing is it's like it's not really, we all use the word retirement.

We're not really retiring, though. We're just switching jobs, you know? Like, that's the only thing. And it kind of sucked, you know, like none of us are like really retiring. Maybe like Connor or something, but that's kind of like the only downside, you know. We're just moving on to something else. And I think that's what makes it so difficult. And the reason I brought that up is you're talking about, you know, a lot of the guys are stick around too long. Like, you know, come out five, six fight losses or knockouts in a row or something like that.

And they're not moving on to something else. And that's exactly it. Like, you know, they're not retiring. Like they're moving on to something else. And for us to get to this level of the. the UFC, you know, top 10 guys, you know, you can't have a backup plan. You can't have a plan B. You can't work on, you know, you got to be firing on all eight cylinders, man.

You take, you know, a little bit of your time and energy and put it towards something else. You're not going to get to that top 10. So it just makes it a very difficult thing. You know, I'm kind of at that age where, you know, these kind of things come through my mind a lot. So I can relate. and I think that's what brings it up to the reason I bring it up. Yeah, no, absolutely. And like I said, it's weird because, like I said, even I have, like, a weird relationship

when, you know, just, you know, moving on to something else, you know, like, in terms of, you know, fight, like, I know you told me many, many times, like you said when you, when you finally do stop fighting, like, you're 100% confident you're going to be a better coach or you ever wear a fire. Like, you're going to be able to move into coaching more full time and not put to focus necessarily in your career. And I'm happy when guys go off and do other things. Like I said, like you know, when you look at, you know, Michael Bispin going out,

and now he's, you know, he just started and did filming for Red Sonia, a new movie that was filming over in Bulgaria. He's doing the commentary thing. He's got his own podcast. Like, I root for guys to find that kind of success. But then I think about a guy who I, like, I go as far as I adore because he was so close to my mentor, Ryan Bennett, is Chuck Ladell, legend. Legend.

I mean, again, that's a guy who's legitimately a legend, Hall of Famer. But it kind of broke my heart. Like, when he came back and fought Tita that last time, like, that wasn't Chuck Ladell. That was not the Chuck LaDle. You and I remember the Ice Man, just the assassin. But it kind of breaks short because it is. It's tough for people to walk away from what they know. And there's a million reasons.

Yes, we can all say it's money or we can say, you know, but like, you know, I know some guys like even Daniel Cormey has told me, like it's hard to give up that feeling of like walking out to the cage and the energy and the emotion that goes into like the competition. You just, you can play a thousand different games. You can play monopoly with your kids. You can play chess. You can play pickup basketball in the court, whatever.

It's still not the same as going out there and fighting. You know what I mean? So there's a lot of different reasons people do it. And there are those occasions where it kind of breaks my heart. Like when I see Chuck Lidgo out there, I'm like, oh, my God, this breaks my heart. And then I think about a guy like Frankie, like I'm going to miss Frankie Edgar performing because Frankie Edgar is that dude. Like he is that dude.

You know he's going to show up. You know he's going to be on weight. You know he's going to put on a fun fight, win, lose, or draw. But at the same time, I'm glad he's going on in his terms. Like I'm glad he's saying, you know what? Enough's enough. I'm going to move on to some else. And what thing he told me and I appreciate is like, I know if I don't do this now.

Like I, he said, I know I could keep going. I could string together some more wins. There's guys I'm absolutely confident I can beat. But at some point I have to move on. And I'm just choosing now as that time. Like for my kids, for my family. Like I'm just choosing now as that time. And I respect the hell out of that because, you know, we've seen that, you know, a lot of guys

who just kind of fade off into the sunset. they lose several in a row and you're kind of man i really don't want to see that guy go through that anymore i'm glad frankie's going on his own terms yeah and i think the other part too that we don't really talk about a lot i think i was mentioned this a little bit last week was about you know how this really becomes our identity what we what we do and we all try not to do that but when you spend your entire life 24 hours a day training uh you're doing something to get ready for a fight and you know, it really becomes your identity, you know, like when people, you're sitting down at dinner and, you know, you got to get a salad while they're all eating steak and burgers and stuff. But, you know, when they're like, hey, let's go out on Saturday night and go, I got to go train or whatever, you know, they becomes very, very much your identity.

So for us, it's almost like, you know, being in the military and then you come back to civilian life. And it's like, that's a difficult thing, man, because we're moving and then. to an entire different world that for one is not nearly as enjoyable right we don't get to walk out in front of millions of people and go to war in a cage but it's also just a completely different mindset all day and you know the reason i can say is like because i did retire once and you know i may or may not even now so you know i'm at that point and so i know what that's like and you're just like you're like this kind of sucks man like life kind of is sucks really when you're not fighting, you know, at least for, you know, people like me and I'm

sure like Frankie Edgar too, where we're like, like, dude, nothing, like you said, we can go skydiving and or do those flying suits and all this shit. That's not going to be nearly as exciting as going out in front of a million people and going to war under the lights. Yeah. And you, you kind of, you, and by association, you kind of surround yourself with those people. Like, you know, anyone that you, anyone that's in kind of your inner circle is, I generally a fighter, a coach, people that know fighting, you know, like I'm not a fighter, but I know fighting. Like I've been covering the sport for 20 years.

I know fighting. You kind of surround yourself with that people because they don't understand otherwise. Like, I'll never understand what it's like to step in there. I don't know that feeling. But I've talked to enough fighters to understand why you love, like why you love doing what you do. Like that's why I never questioned it. That's why I'm one of those people like I don't typically call for fighter.

I remember one time where I truly called for a fighter to retire, and it was Ken Shamrock. He was coming back, and I was like, dude, I just don't want to see Ken go through it anymore. Like, he had some really rough runs, and I'm like, I really, it breaks my heart, don't want to see him go through it anymore. But generally, I don't call for retirement for that reason,

because I know how much this means to you. I know what, like, this sport means to you and how much, like, you love getting in there. And, like, a guy like Joe Lozon, who I have just so much respect for, and I've had him on the podcast co-hosted with me many times, like, I've kind of just kind of this conversation. conversation with him where he's kind of like, I don't know that I'll ever retire. He's like, I may just stop fighting, you know, I may just like, you know, move on to other things and

you just you just won't hear from me getting called for fights anymore. But he's like, I don't know that I'll ever use the word retired because technically I'm not retired. I'm still, you know, doing what I love. I'm in the gym every day of training guys. But, you know, I just may not fight anymore. And I was like, I respect that. Like, you know, like, it is a weird word to say retirement. Like, I appreciate a guy like Frankie going on in his own terms. But at the same time, I respect Joe being like, you know what? I'm just not going to fight anymore. I'm not retired, I'm just not going to fight him. It's a weird, I know it's a weird, like, it's the same, you know, like.

Yeah, you know, that's the other part of the whole thing is, is we, of course, we love getting in the octagon and performing and fighting, you know, some people hate it too, right? But some, you know, fighters actually hate that. But what we love equally, if not more, is the lifestyle that we live. Like, like, every day we get up and go to the gym, sweat with, bleed with our dudes, and, you know, we hang out. That's the best part of this whole thing, man, it's just that experience, the bonds you make. Like, you know, sitting on the mats after a hard session, all sweaty and bloody with your buddies is like, you know, the greatest thing on this planet, you know?

And that lifestyle is what is harder to give up than anything else. Like, it's so much funer to do, more fun to do that than it is to go to business meetings or go golfing with your, you know, a business buddies. you know what I mean like you are you know so as well I said the lifestyle is what's harder to give up I think and Joe for instance like owning his own gym and which is part of why I own my own gym you know this is we don't have to quite give up the lifestyle quite as much yeah and you are fighters at this level the UFC like you are the 1% of the 1% like there's only so many people who get to do this and do it at this level like when I talked about the all-time wins and welterweight like you're in the top five Like there's only so many people in the history of the world who can do what you do.

And so when you're in that kind of super specialized industry at that level, you know, we can talk about with other pro sports. Like there's a reason why we, you know, football players go until, you know, they just have nothing left. It's not just about money and it's just not about fame, things like that. They love doing it. Like, they love doing what they do. And that's your identity. That's who you are. Yeah, it's tough, man.

It is. it in. Like I said, and when fighters come back, like, and they're like, I retired and I come back a year later. Like, I get it. I don't always agree with it, but I get it. Like, I understand what the feeling is. Like, I understand the emotion and it's just hard to let that go. Like, you know, I'm not, I'm not in anywhere, shape, or form in the same boat as you, but if somebody told it came to me today and said, hey, you can still watch this sport, but you can't write about it anymore. You can't cover it. You can't, you know, actually be a journalist doing it. It would suck. Like, I love the sport, but I love covering the sport. I love talking to fighters. I love

having these kinds of conversations. If somebody said, you can't do that anymore. You can watch, but you can't do that. You can't talk to fighters. You can't interview them. You can't get the insight from them. I would be like, I don't know if I could be around the sport anymore because, like, that's just such a part of who I am.

Like, I love doing what I do. I love talking to fight. I love talking to you. I love talking to Frankie and Joe. And, you know, like, it would be weird to just be a fan, just to sit and do because I've done it. So same thing here. Like, I get it.

Like, again, I'm not comparing myself in any way, shape or form to fighters, but I'm saying, like, I get the mentality. Like, it would be weird, and I'm sure it will be, like, on that day, like, when you're just there as a fan, when you're just there and there's no more waiting for Sean Shelby to call you and say, you know, you ready to fight? You're ready to do it? You know, like, I'm sure it's like a bizarre thing, you know? Yes, yes. Like I said, I mean, I retired for about a year, so I understand what it feels like. And it's a very awkward experience for us. That's a 100% true.

So let's talk about UFC 281. I know we're going to spend a lot of time talking about the main event, but let me start real quick because we do have an incredible lightweight fight on the card. Dustin Porriere, taken on Michael Chandler. I feel like we're going to see two Tasmanian devils just collide in the middle of the ring, in the middle of the cage, you just go after it. Porre of course, hasn't fought since he lost to Charles Oliveira. Michael Chandler coming off that insane front kick knock out over Tony Ferguson.

I don't know that there's a lot of breaking down to doing this fight, because I feel like these two guys are just going to meet in the middle and throw into one of them falls over. Because, like, in terms of game planning, like, I think, well, Chandler has great wrestling. You know, he does. He's a legitimate, like, you know, he's a legitimate guy. You know, Porre has incredible boxing. He's a black belt Brazilian jiu-jitsu. But it's kind of like, you know, Pori and when Gaichi and Chandler got together,

or Gaichi and Pori, like, I feel like they're just going to go in and collide like a, like a demolition derby until one of them just can't go anymore. That's very possible. And that's what's so exciting about this fight. And that's why they made it, right? I think that that's very possible. The Olick part, the Alcott breakdown a little bit, though, is, you know, Porre is a Southball, for one. I'm not sure if we've seen Chandler against South Paul's.

You know, Tony Switches a lot, gauging one in South Paul. But I don't remember the last time seeing him against a true Southpaw, which can change things a lot. And I think if, I think Poria actually has the skill to not make this as much of a brawl as people expect it to be. I think he has the ability to do that. I'm not sure if he mentally will do that, right? Because, you know, he's a, he's a dog and he's going to get in there and he's going to want to throw down the first time he gets hit. He might just throw everything out the window and just start swinging for the fences.

But, you know, I lean pretty heavily towards Dustin in this fight for that. I think he has the skill to do it. Of course, Chandler, you know, he's a dog in itself too. So, but I think Poirier has the ability to make this fight, um, a less of a dog fight than it needs to be. It's funny you say that. I'm actually talking to his head coach later tonight, Mike Brown. And one of the things that Mike and I have talked about many times with Dustin is going

away from that, like let's just throw down, bite down in our mouthpieces and swing until one of us can't swing anymore. He's gotten Dustin away from that. And Dustin's talked about that as well. Like I had to get out of that mentality where I would just go in there and get hit and want to hit back. You know, he's gotten away from that.

I think that helps him in a fight like this because Chandler, Chandler's going to come after him and he's going to try to draw him into that kind of fight. Dustin, like, Dustin could still win that fight. He could absolutely still win that crazy battle just, you know, throwing crazy punches until one of them falls over.

But he gives himself a much better chance to win by not. doing that. You know what I mean? By going out there, doing what he did against Connor, picking his shots, setting up his combinations, pinpoint accuracy, long-rangey punches, don't get drawn into the war. And I'm with you. Like, on paper, I think Dustin Porre should win this fight. Like, I think he is, I think he is an incredibly good boxer. Chandler rarely uses his wrestling. So, I mean, I think it bodes well for Pori, he's not got to worry too much about that part of it. And I think on the stand-up tip, like, I think, I think Porri is.

is the more technical striker. Exactly. But just like with Gajee, like Gajee beat Chandler. He did. He won that fight. But Chandler was in there, man. Chandler heard him a couple of times. Chandler, you know, he stuck around to the very end.

And that always worries me because Chandler just needs one. You know what I mean? Like, I think he, I'm not saying, I'm not saying Destapori doesn't have one punch of knockout power. He does. But Chandler's one of those dudes. He just needs one. He needs you to make one slip, one mistake, one wrong. move and he will knock you into the middle of next week.

That worries me because... Very hard to get out of there, right? So he's, you know, he's always going to be in there and always, you know, he's like a gauging. That's why that fight was so great, right? Because those guys, both of them could be completely wobbled and on their back foot and almost knocked out and then swing a big punch and change the whole, the whole momentum of a fight, you know, bam, like that.

So that's certainly what makes it exciting. and you know i think i'm i'm going with poirier in this one and i think he's going to make it look a lot easier than these other guys have with chandler yeah my my gut tells me porre but my heart says never count out a guy like michael chandler and especially and here's one thing i here's one thing i will say porre even i think pori is technically much better than he used to be in terms of not getting into those dog fights the one thing i will say though Porreier still does get hit. He does still get hit.

He's not like this defensive wizard. You know, he got hit a couple times by Connor in the first fight. Now, the second fight was a pretty dominant, or I should say third fight. The third fight where Connor broke his leg, Dustin was pretty dominant until the leg break. The first, the second fight, he did get clipped a couple of times. Then he obviously overcame that and beat Connor convincingly knocked him out. But he still gets hit a little bit.

And that worries me because Chandler, Chandler just, again, he just needs one glancing blow to crack you, hurt you and finish you. You know, and that worries me a little bit. Sure. You know? But the other thing we don't talk about enough about Dustin Quarry, too, I still feel like even after all these years, like how long, I mean, UFC fights he got probably 15 or 20 at this point.

More than that, probably at this point, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe more than that. And I feel like we have seen him improve in almost every single fight. Like, I don't, even now, like, I feel like, even his last three or four. fights. I feel like we see little improvements. Like this guy is putting in the work like no one other. Chandler, I don't see that same. I see him still fighting sort of the same strategy, same techniques. He was using even in Bellator. I don't see him improving technically. He's going to be in shape.

We know this. He's going to crack. We know this. But technically, I see Poriaves taking levels up constantly. I don't see that with Chandler. Yeah. And I will say that. the one thing that I and I don't think this is going to affect Dustin because I just don't see Dustin being this dude but like you wonder has the motivation changed at all because he now had his second title fight you know he lost he lost it is he lost the he lost to he was to he lost to he lost to Charles though this is his first fight back like did he not that he's lost to step I don't think that at all but is the motivation change you know like is he still like is he still fighting because when he when he lost to Charles and he did the interview with

ariel right after and he talked about like you know maybe going going to Welch away. Maybe I'm done it lightweight. You know, maybe I'll do this. Maybe I'll do that. And you start wondering, like, is the, not the fire's not there, but like, is the motivation still there if maybe the title isn't the goal right now? Not to say he can't get back there. Islam's champion now. He hasn't fought Islam. That would still be a big fight. Dustin's still one of the biggest name is the division. I always wonder, like, you know, when you've had a couple cracks in the title, do you start losing a little bit of the motivation for why you're doing this? You know what I mean? Because he's been that, he's been so close.

comes from clarity, right? So, you know, we'll see if he kind of put his head together and has a clear vision for what he wants, right? Like you said, after his last loss with Charles, he's thinking all these different things. Go to Welterway, right? You know, he's probably thinking, you know, do I want to try for this title again? So the question's going to be, did he develop this clarity, you know, throughout this camp? and does he have a clear vision for what he's after here? And I think that's where the motivation will come from.

If he doesn't have a clear vision, you know, Chandler's a tough guy to have in front of you without a lot of clarity, right? You're calling a motivation. I'm calling it clarity. I think the two go very hand in hand. Yeah, so I'm with you. I think on paper, Poria should win.

I think he's more technical. I think he's got the better overall boxing. I think he's not going to get drawn into. to just a war dog fight kind of fight on that on that tip i think he wins but and i know i'm listen i know i'm hedge of my bets here matt i know i know i am but do not do not be surprised whatsoever if chandler goes in there lands one big right hand and it's over like that dude has that kind of stopping power and i know i know michael really really well i know how motivated he gets i know how much like a chip on the shoulder's the wrong way to say but like i know how much he wants to prove like all those

years in Bellator and he was the best guy in Bellator everyone said well yeah but you're not in the UFC you know you're not beating UFC guys you know you're not doing that and I know deep down that still eats it a little bit because I do believe Michael Chandler was always one of the best guys in the world regardless of promotion like the idea that is the UFC the biggest and are the best generally in the UFC yes we all know that not everybody though they're still got a couple of guys like you know what I mean like you know like guys like Daniel Cormey they didn't they just come into the UFC like they were good and force like you know see you know see the biggest and the best we know that but not everybody's

there so i've always thought chandler was that good but i know it's bugged him i know it bugs him and people say well you were great and bellator but you know a little asterisk that little but at the end of the sentence so um don't be shocked if chandler pulls this one out but i'm with you i think on paper porier is the more technical fighter he's the better boxer and as long as he doesn't get drawn into that war you know yep yep and i mean i think that's a very great point that you bring up there like you know the mental side of this the motivation the chip on the shoulder the clarity things like that that goes a huge long way in a big you know fight like this where it's a game of centimeters and sometimes those centimeters are made up mentally so I think that's a

great great point absolutely um I don't know that we're going to spend a ton of time talking about the co-main event you know Carlos spars the defending her title again Janeway Lee I feel like the entire world is picking Zhang Waley to win this fight, like as if Carlos Bars is just going to roll over and play dead. Now, let me be clear. Zhang Waley is really good. She's a monster. I came to your gym and we did a video breakdown

where you broke down how Zhang set up and finished Yuanian Jacek with that incredible spinning back fist knockout. She has two losses to Rose Nami Yunus. No shame there. Rose is incredible. You know Rose very well. Outside of that, she knocked out Jessica Andrade. She's beating Yonana twice.

She's a monster. We all know how good Janewayly is. But it still bugs me. And listen, maybe she'll go out there and just steamroll Carla. I don't know, maybe she will. But it always bugs me when, like, you get a fighter like Carla, who's been around as long as she has, been a top fighter for 10 years or whatever it's been, two-time champion beat Rosnami Unis.

Now, what's the most exciting fight in the world? Absolutely not. But did she win? Yes. But it always bugs me when people are just like, it's a, nothing is a foregone conclusion in the sport, Matt. You know that better than anybody. There's nothing as guaranteed. Like I know everyone is so high on Zhang.

It's going to be a knockout. It's going to just, you know, steamroll kind of fight. Maybe it will be. But to just a discount Carla completely is a little bit ridiculous to me. I feel you on that. I mean, I think it really comes down to pretty simple. This one, it's a grappler versus striker matchup, right? If Carla is able to take her down and, you know, hold her or dominate in any way,

then, you know, then your theory stands up. if she's not able to, I think, you know, which is where most people are probably at, like they're thinking Zhang's going to be able to stop the take down. And I think you would probably agree that if she is able to stop the take down and create some distance, it's probably going to be a very long night for Carla or a very short night. But either way, a bad night. I think it comes down to how the first round goes. If Zhang comes out there and it just initiates her dominance right away and Carla can't get the takedowns,

you can't stay out of range, she gets trapped against the cage, those kind of things, then I think Zhang's going to finish it, you know, within the first two rounds. But if it gets deeper, late second round, early third round, Carla's got a couple takedons in her. She's grinding her against the cage a little bit. She's put her down, starting to wear on her a little bit. That's where I think Carla takes over. This fight goes longer than two rounds. I'm not saying that Zhang can't pull it off.

She went five rounds with Yonah, but that was all striking. Now, I'm not saying striking is less tiring than grappling, but I'm just saying it's a different fight on your feet for five rounds versus sitting on the bottom, getting taken down, grinding on you. That's just a different kind of endurance. You know that. Absolutely. And that's, yeah, you're saying, I think, the same thing, right?

Like, it's more or less the grappler versus strike or match. We know what Carla is going to do, right? Zhang knows what she's going to try to do. She's going to try to come in, take her down, and either beat her. up on the ground or at least, you know, wear her out on the ground to get a finish later. Yeah, absolutely. Right. I mean, it's really, this is one of those, you know, these matchups happen pretty regularly, right?

Like there's a guy that knows he has to get a take down. There's a guy that knows that they need to keep it on the feet. And then, and that a lot of times is the determining factor on who wins and loses, right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, listen, will I be shocked? if Zhang Wei-le wins and knocks her out in the first two minutes? No, I won't be shocked by that.

Will I be shocked if Zhang wins by knockout in the second round? No, I will not be shocked by that. I will not be shocked if everyone in the world is right, that Zhang Wei-Lie-Lie is just a better fighter, a stronger fighter, and she's going to become champion again. I'm not going to be shocked by any of that. But I like the underdog. I like people who have been around and proven it over and over and over and over again,

and Carla has done that. And I do like the wrestling. I think the idea that, you know, because we saw, Rose take Zhang down in their rematch a couple of times, few times. That was a big part of that fight. Carla is a better wrestler than Rose Namibunis. So if she can avoid those early haymakers and the early idea that Zhang is just going to simply overwhelm her, she can avoid that. Get a couple takedowns. Put her on her back. I'm picking Carla Spars to win this fight. I like the wrestling. She's taking Carla. I'm taking Carla. What's the line on it?

she's like a three to one underdog. I think I think Zhang is like minus 3.30 or something like that. It's pretty pretty wide in her favor. And like I said, I know I'm hedging my bets again here. I'm saying like I will not be shocked if Jane goes out there and does exactly what everyone's saying she's going to do. But I just, I don't know. I just, I refuse to look past this kind of a matchup where one fighter has a tremendous

wrestling base. And all she needs is a couple of those to really, you know, start to break down and tire out, Zhang. Again, I like the underdog. I like it. I'm going with Carla. I might be completely wrong come Monday, but or come Sunday, but I'm going with Carla.

I don't think that's a bad bet, but I'll take the bet if you want. We already have so many bets. You still got to pay off your bets, Matt Brown. Come on now. We've got bets going back a couple years now. All right, double or nothing. I'm not going double or nothing on this one. I definitely don't have the confidence to go double

nothing on this one. I promise you that. I think I already owe you a bunch of money. I may go double or nothing on another one, but I am not going double or nothing on this. My confidence is not that high. All right, then we'll go double or nothing on the main event because I know who you got, right? We'll find out in a second. Are you going with Zhang? Are you going with Zhang? I'm going with Zhang big time. Yeah, but, you know, I'm going to be like you and I'm going a hedge too. I mean, if Carla is able to get those takedowns, I just don't think she should be able to do it for five rounds on Zhang. I do think Zhang will find her spots. And even if Carla is able to get those takedowns early. And I think Zhang will hit too hard on the feet and has

too many tricks on the feet. And Carla just doesn't, I've never seen her be really, like she relies on the takedown. You know, she relies on being able to take you down and grind you out. And so many of those fundamentals are lost on the feet. And I think Zang is just so tricky on the feet and does so many awkward things. And obviously, it's really hard. So I think she's going to give her too many problems on the feet. And I think she'll be able to stop or take down at least enough to be able to beat her up on the feet. Yeah, I won't be shocked if that's what happens whatsoever.

Like I said, that's the popular pick. And like I said, I think people are not wrong, you know. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the big one. The main event, Israel Adasanya, defending his title against Alex Pahan. The guy who beat him twice in kickboxing, beat him about a decision once, knocked him out in the second one. It's a viral moment.

We all know it. It's an incredible knockout. Probably one of the worst knockouts. We saw it glory kickboxing at that point. It was a nasty, nasty knockout. You, you, again, this is kind of, I always like to defer to you beyond being a fighter, but also because you are a fan of kickboxing and Muay Thai. And you watch a lot of you were. You were very aware of that fight probably before I was.

Like, I knew who these guys were, but I wasn't like a hardcore glory fan watching. these guys fight when they fought the first and second time. Let's start there. You know these guys better than I do, especially in the kickboxing realm. You saw their kickboxing fights, and again, you saw them before it was popular to see these fights. You knew them. You knew who these guys were before it was popular. No, Israel Adasania was.

What can you, what can you say about the, again, we know kickboxing is not MMA. We know this isn't. We understand. I'm not, again, pretending it's the same fight. But what did you learn watching those two fights between these two guys? So even though, yeah, this isn't a kickboxing fight. It's not kickboxing rules, but these guys are two kickboxers that kickbox in MMA. So this is going to be a kickboxing fighter.

Don't see anybody shooting for any takedowns. I don't really see these guys clenching up a lot. And neither of their fights did they clinch up a lot. Like these guys are two guys that have long, rangy styles. Alex Pereira has the X factor. He has that left hook, which is the X factor that he hurts so many people with and just one of the most powerful left hooks in kickboxing we've ever seen, I think. But if you watch both of those fights, Israel was doing a lot of people gave him the first fight.

You know, it was sort of a controversial decision. He was winning most of the second fight. and then Alex with the X factor came out and caught Israel. So, you know, I think Israel has learned from his mistakes. I think he's, you know, if there is anything beyond kickboxing involved in this fight, you know, any takedowns, any clinch work, any MMA stuff, I give Israel the advantage. He's been doing it way longer.

He's been training him in May for a lot longer. So I lean very heavily towards Israel in this fight. And Alex just has that X factor. But I think I think Izzy's probably learned his lessons. He's learned from his mistakes. They know each other very well. They know each other's styles. They know what they're going to do.

But between those two things, Israel, I do think is the better kickboxer. And any extra curricular activities that go on beyond just, at being a kickboxing match, I think Izzy's going to have the advantage. So I'm going to go with Izzy in this one. I'm going to disagree. I'm going to disagree in a couple of reasons why. For one, I don't disagree with you that I think Israel has made improvements since the second fight was five years ago.

It's been a long time, right? But here's what I would say. Israel's taking a lot of criticism lately for being a little too conservative in fights that he's won. You know, like, you look at the Marvin Vittory rematch, it was a, you know, 50, 45, 49, 46, whatever the thing. It was pretty, pretty wide margin for a win. But when you watch the fight, you think to yourself, Israel is a lot better. He should have done more.

Like, you expect more out of a guy who's that much better than his opponents. Now, Robert Whitaker is legitimately the second best middleweight in the sport right now, and there's no shame in going five hard rounds with him. But there were moments where you felt like Izzy was leading and then didn't really follow up in the way he. should have. And he's taking criticism for that. And I think, you know, in a little bit, it's rightfully so because, you know, we held, we held Anderson Silva to an impossibly high standard when he was champion, right? And Anderson's greatness allowed us to do. When Anderson didn't have the kind of performance we expected out of him, it's not that he wasn't

great. It's just we know how great he can be. Israel's got a lot of that going right now. And I think that, listen, he's talked about over and over, it doesn't bother him, doesn't whatever, you know, he doesn't care what people think, blah, blah, blah, you know, all that. And then he talks about this fight, it's a little more personal because Alex has, you know, two wins over him, he has the knockout, the viral moment. My concern for Israel is that he is going to fight a little bit outside of himself a little bit in this fight. He's going to get a little more aggressive.

You know, is he going to take a few more chances? Because you're right. If you watch that second fight, the knockout fight, he had Alex hurt earlier in the fight. He had wobbled badly. And because it's kickboxing, you get a standing 10 count. You don't get to follow up and the guys down in his knees. You don't get to follow up and keep punching him like you do in MMA. Right.

So it's not like people. And Israel brings this up a lot. And he's right. Like, have you watched the fight? Do you know what happened beyond the knockout? Most people are like, no, I just watched the knockout. No, if you watched the fight, Israel had him hurt badly earlier. And then, as you said, the X factor, Alex came back.

hammer of a left hand knocked him out. My worry is that Israel's going to fight a little outside of himself because he has something to prove in this time. You know what I mean? Like fighting Whitaker a second time after knocking him out in like two minutes the last time or five minutes, whatever it was, takes a little bit out. Beat Marvin Vittory comes back. Is it really as exciting to go out there and beat Marvin Vittori a second time, you know, five rounds?

You know, just not a lot there. There's a lot riding on this one. This is a guy who has two legitimate wins over him. and a knockout forever over him. And that worries me that Israel might fight outside of himself a little bit. And this, like, this is one of those times where I would say Israel needs to fight, kind of like the boring, like go out there and just do what you need to do to win fight. He doesn't need to take chances.

He doesn't need to take too many risks because Alex is an incredible kickboxer with unbelievable power. And you play around with that and he will make you pay. And I think when you take away the other aspect, when you take away that even the kickboxer, the kickboxing. I don't listen, I don't think Israel out of Sanya is just a kickboxer anymore. He's a mixed martial artist. But that being said, him stopping takedowns and him thwarting grappling attempts from other fighters doesn't mean he's out there throwing up dars chokes and anaconda chokes and, you know, throwing up, you know, flying triangles. I don't know that Israel's

weapons and other aspects of his game are so good that he can go out there and just choose to just outgraple Alex. Like I don't, I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying I don't see him doing that. I feel like this is going to be a striking fight between two elite kickboxers. And I think Alex, in my opinion, is still the better kickboxer. I think he has better overall skills on the feet. And I think Israel is going to take chances because he wants to prove something. He wants to prove I'm better than Alex now. I am a better fighter.

And that to me is going to open up opportunities for Alex to land that bomb, to land that flying knee, to land that big kick. I'm picking Alex Perhaya to win this fight, and I'm winning him to pick, I'm picking him to win it by knockout. Oh, wow. I like, all this sounds like I don't like Israel, Adasanya.

I like him very much. He's an incredible fighter interview him many times, and, you know, really, like, intriguing dude. But I feel like there's just a weird, there's just a weird air about this fight to me. You know what I mean? Like, like, let's be honest, Matt, in any other division,

Alex probably wouldn't be getting a title shot right now. He's like three fights into his UFC career. did knock out Strickland, which is a good win. Strickland's a good fight. But like in any other, in any other division, he'd have to go through like Whitaker and Vittori and, you know, those kind of guys to get a title shot. He didn't. He kind of skipped the line because he has that rivalry with Adasanya. And I just, I, Adasanya said it today. This is personal to him. He has taken it personally. I think that's a problem. I think Israel has had a mental advantage over every single opponent he's fought with the exception of

in my opinion one guy and that was Jean Blahovic and that's the fight he lost I don't think he had a mental advantage over Jan because John's like I'm bigger I'm stronger I'm heavier you know I know I can beat the smaller guy that's what happened that's pretty much how that fight played out he took him down he you know kind of showed that you know Israel is not quite a light heavyweight every other I'm believing that he had a mental advantage over Whitaker also I think he

did in the first fight. I think he did in the first fight. Whitaker was, I think Whitaker, because you watch Whitaker, Whitaker went out there and was throwing wild punches and, you know, coming after him with these crazy combinations. Not because Whitaker is a very reserved guy. He went out there guns blazing the first fight against Israel and he got and he paid for it. I think Israel's had a mental, just a just a mental intimidation to him over almost everyone he's fought. Maybe not even necessarily before the fight, but like during the fight, because he's so slick and he's so you know, almost like Anderson back in the day, you know, where you just feel like an idiot. Like your throwing these punches, they're not hitting, you're getting hit, and you just kind of

start questioning yourself during the fight. Like, I've sparred with Izzy before, and like, you know, you definitely feel that. You know, you're like, just got out of here. Like, why am I not hitting him? And how is he hitting me? Yeah. So, but that's a lot, too. But, you know, which is, to me is sort of the, the biggest.

part of this fight is like Alex is as big and as long as Izzy which is I'm not sure other than than maybe Yon that he's fought anybody like that you know that has the link obviously like Alex is a extremely good kickboxer um which in most instances I'd say I would say look you know is he's never fought somebody with the length and all that but he has bought Alex twice Yeah. So, and he knows, these guys know each other. They know what they're going to do. They have their game plans.

And that's why I don't think that the chip on the show or the, the mentally, it's going to affect Izzy. Like he knows what he's getting into. I think he knows, you know, how big this is and how important it is for him to stay mentally strong and mentally even killed. And I think he's going to be able to do that. And I don't think he's going to let it get to him. Yeah, and I'm on the other side. I think that this is like one time where he doesn't have, you know, he is so,

he is so good at mentally breaking his opponents before they get in the cage. I think he did it to Paulo Costa. I think he did it to Marvin Vittori. I think he's done to a lot of guys who are really good, but then they start dealing with Izzy and Izzy just, I mean, he just clowns him a little bit. You know what I mean? Yeah, dude, it's, it's brilliant to watch him work.

But I don't think he can do that to Alex, because Alex has the ultimate drumming. card. I knocked you out cold. You know, what are you going to tell me? Like, you accomplished more than MMA? Great. You did. But what happened the last time we fought each other? Who was laid out on the floor with medics coming and wanted to put you on a stretcher? You know, like, yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like, like you said, like you can say all you want, but the last time we met, you're the one who left on the stretcher. You're the one who left the ring, you know, you couldn't get up,

blah, blah, blah. I just, I would say if anything, I think it may make, is he fight even safer. He might be even more so that guy that everybody has been hating to watch, which I again, I personally don't hate watching the way that he fights, but, you know, a lot of people don't like that boring stuff. He may revert even farther into that safe fight, which is my biggest fear more so for Izzy rather than him taking chances, him being too safe and not taking the big chance that he might need to take. to get a victory here.

I think playing it safe or playing it reserved is smart in certain aspects. Like don't do it so much that you just take away everything you do well. But I think he's got to be careful because, again, if you're not careful with Alex, he's going to knock you in the middle of next week. Like I said, all it took was Sean Strickland making one mistake and he got clipped and boom, fight over. That I just, I don't know. There's just, it's a weird feeling I have.

It's just something good. This is such an even fighting on paper. I probably should go to Israel Adasani. He's the more accomplished overall better mixed martial artist, but there's just something about this rivalry that just tells me that Alex is just going to catch him at some point. He's going to see Israel

coming or Israel's going to get a little too aggressive or maybe Israel's going to be winning. And he's going to be like, you know what? I'm just going to serve this dude and he's going to get clipped and caught. I don't know. There's just something about this fight where I'm like, I think Alex is going to get it done. Now, does that mean

Alex is going to go on and have the legacy in the career that Israel's done. I don't know that that's true. I don't know that he could, you know, you could say that, you know, he could go out there and fight a wrestler as dominant as a guy like Derek Brunson. Maybe he didn't beat a Brunson because Brunson may just take him down and beat on him. It's something he couldn't do to Israel. Israel broke Derek Brunson before their fight. Maybe he can't do that to Derek Brunson. But there's just something about this fight. I feel like he's got, he's got a little bit over. I just, when you hear about it so much, when you see that highlight so many times and everyone is saying, this guy knocked you in the

middle of next week when you fought the last time, it worries me a little bit about how Israel's mentality is going to be. Again, this is the first time since the Yon fight that he's just not mentally better than his opponent because he doesn't, he can't say he has one up on Alex. He just can't. He can't say that. That worries me. So yeah, I'm going with Alex Paya to pull off the upset. I do like your breakdown and you almost convinced me there talking about Israel there, but I'm going against it. I'm going to stick with my gut. I'm going with Alex. I'm going to Alex Pahey had to pull off the upset and and I haven't seen the lines. I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure

it's close. I know Israel's the favorite. But I don't think it's like a huge. I don't think it's like a huge like, you know, he's like a minus 400 favorite and crazy like that. We got a couple different picks though. I'm going Carla and I'm going to Alice. We're going a couple of underdogs. Yeah, I think I'm going with all the favorites of this one. Yeah.

No, not a bad way to go. Yeah, it's a tough one, man. You know, this is really the one of those fights with prayer and Izzy. If they fought 10 times, they might go five and five, right? They might. It shows up that night, who had the better night's sleep, who is more mentally prepared, who put in the extra mile,

who, who, you know, put in the extra reps. Like, it's that close. Like, these guys are two best, they're two of the best kickboxers in the world. And, you know, now they're going in with these little four-ounce gloves, you know, and that's a game changer too, you know. And again, I just think that. is he is particularly with his m-may experience

he knows how to fight five five-minute rounds he knows uh m-ma better I think he knows what he needs to do in this fight to win um he knows howx prayer so well um yeah so I got to go with izzie on this

so you're like you're confident this isn't one where like kind of has you your best you're confident in izzie winning yeah yeah I'm definitely I'm very confident um what you're Usually, you know, means that he loses. Because like, like, if you look at any of my, like, past posts where I pick fights, like, I'm wrong at least 90% of the time. So I tell everybody, I think I just tweeted the day or day.

I was like, hey, here's my picks. Make sure you pick against me so that you win and you're going to get rich. And literally every pick was wrong. And everybody's tweeting back. Like, yeah, bro, we definitely should have listened to you and bet against him. you. But I don't disagree with you this time. Like I said, on paper, I probably should be picking out of Sonia, but there's just something about this fight. I don't know what it is. I can't really explain it, but I'm going with, I'm going with, I'm going with, Pereira. I think he's going to get

it down. Also, by the way, I want to mention also, I do love that he trains with Glover to share. I love that mentality. You know, I think the other thing, when you talk about mentally, too, is like, you know, only three fights into the UFC. Like, Pereira is still a young, fucking hungry fighter like for the UFC so he's still going to have extra nerves coming into his first big you know a pay-per-view main event you know his nerves are going to be strong whereas is he may be a little too comfortable in there that would be another thing that they could come into a play here he may be a little comfortable he's got how many title defenses now i mean you know he's up there with some of the greatest and you know certainly one of the great things.

middle weights of all time. You know, everybody has their day, man. And I think it really challenges you mentally to be able to hold onto that title and, you know, everybody's pumping you up now. Everybody's on your nuts all the time versus the guy, you know, trying to climb the stairs. Like you're already at the top of the stairs. The guy trying to climb the stairs sometimes puts in that extra work.

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And, like you said, you know, in a lot of ways, this is the last mountain Israel has to climb, if we're being honest. Like, there's really not much else he needs to do it middleweight. Like, Alex is kind of the last man standing because he's beating Whitaker twice. He's beaten Vittorri twice. He beat Jared Cannonier. He's beating Derek Brunson. Like, when you look at the UFC Middleway Division, like, there's just not a lot of people left for him to fight after Alex.

So if Israel wins this one, you know, the next, like the next best prospect is probably a guy in Bo Nickel is 2 and O, who I'll I think Bo Nichols one of the best prospects we've ever seen this sport I'm very, very high Bo Nickel but we all know Bo Nicol ain't going to get a title shot anytime soon

so this is kind of the last mountain Israel has to climb in all honesty like there's just not a lot of not much else out there for him yeah, yeah I agree there's I'm trying to think of who else is even out there

for his Zeta fight I mean maybe he tries to move back up again after this fight yeah I mean him and I think it's weird to say this but I think like Yiri Prohobos Ashka is a more winnable fight for Israel, Adasanya than Jan Blahovic.

Like, I would think that is a much more winnable fight. Like, I think Glover is a tougher fight for Israel. Because we look at the grappling and, you know, just the grappling and the wrestling in Israel, you know, Glover's not going to go out there

just throw hands with Israel for five rounds. Like, Israel should be... I got to say, with Yuri's a fun fight, period. Oh, yeah. Yuri versus Adasania, like, that's a really fun fight. These guys with crazy styles.

Don't crazy tech. meets all the time. Yeah, this would be a dream matchup. That would be fun. But like I said, I would, I would lean Israel because how technically good he is and how, you know, he doesn't typically go out of himself to fight like that, where

he just does, you know, crazy insanity. Yeah. That's a winnable fight for him. I don't know that Glover or Yon is a more winnable fight or even an or even ankylaev. Like, Ankylai is so big and strong and powerful and just a massive light heavyweight. Like those are all

tougher matchups for Israel. I'm not saying, I'm not saying, you can't beat him. He absolutely can, but I'm saying like, that's a, that's a fight where I think it's a little more even. Yeah, yeah. It'd be very interesting to see him try to move up again. You know, if he can get his wrestling a little better, his defense, you know, maybe, because, I mean, that was really what Yon did, right?

Just oversized, bullied him, and took him down and was able to continue to do that for the whole five rounds. So, you know, Izzy's going to have to, if he wants to move up, I mean, he's just got to get his rest on better and may put on some size maybe he just need to put on a little bit more size too and muscle it takes his time to move up a little bit you know what he needs he needs that hammer house uh dummy he needs a hammer house punching bag he needs a little mark coleman a little mark coleman special there with the hammer house punching bag hey we'd love to have busy out here bro all right well that is our breakdown of course we'll be back to react to all this next week

we'll find out who has a little bit of a little bit of bragging rights between you and i uh since we did pick different in a couple of these fights. We'll find out who has bragging rights when we do the show next week. But before the show ends up... I'll try to catch up with my bragging rights because you're way ahead of me at this point. See, I didn't bring it up, though. I didn't bring that up, Matt. I didn't bring it. I'll admit it. I'll admit it. I'm humble and victory is what it is. I'm humble and victory. I may not be so humble in victory, but I'll post... I said I posted on Twitter. Like, I'm like, here's my picks. Pick against me if you want to get rid of it.

Well, we'll be back next week to break all that down. But before we get out of here today, first things first, I did talk about her earlier. Carla Spars, of course, she is defending her title against Zhang Wei Lee in the co-main event on Saturday. I had a conversation with Carla before she left for New York for the fight. So here is my conversation with the UFC strawweight champion, Carla Spars. Matt and I will be back next week to find out which one of us has bragging rights over the other with this entire event. It goes down on Saturday. Check it out on pay-per-view and, of course, follow along on MMAFighting.com.

But right now, here's my conversation with the champ. Boarding for Flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won!

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Carlos Barza. She is the UFC strawweight champion in the world and she returns to defend her title at UFC 281 in Madison Square. Garden in November. I am always happy to speak to Carla Sparza. Carla, how are you? Hey, I am doing great. How is everything? Obviously, at this point now, fights literally just a couple weeks away. So I assume, you know, training camp is going well. First title of defense back is champ. Madison Square Garden, huge card. You've been here before. This is nothing new necessarily, but I imagine there's always a little bit of excitement.

Yeah, I'm super excited. Training camp has been going really well. I'm very happy with it. No major injuries or anything. So that's always a great thing. Knock on wood. But, yeah, no, training camp has been awesome. I'm excited to fight at Madison Square Garden, you know, since it was just recently, like, legalized a couple of years ago.

So definitely a bucket list place for my career for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Now, when we spoke after your win and you got the title, you had told me, you know, I think you said November, December, was the timeline you were looking at and you weren't going to rush back. You were going to make sure to give your body time to heal, make sure you had you know, plenty of time to get ready. Were you okay with the date November 11th? Was this a good date for you in terms of being back and ready and healthy?

Yeah, most definitely. You know, you're always as a fighter going to worry. Like, is this enough time? Is this enough time? But, you know, having going and starting the camp and then kind of just, you know, picking a momentum. I definitely feel like it was enough. It was kind of right on that cusp. I wanted to fight either November or December.

So it actually worked out really nicely. So I can enjoy the holidays. There you go. There you go. Now, you know, we talked after the title fight win. You know, we knew what a awesome moment that was for your current. One thing I didn't realize when we spoke the last time, and I know you've probably heard this, you know, a million times since then.

2,612, the number of days between title reigns, longest in UFC history. And I know we speak often, Carla, and we talk a lot about your longevity and the, and the legacy you put together being one of the best fighters in your division for this long. And because we see so many people don't stick around the sport that long, especially at the top. Like, you know, it's hard to just stay in the UFC for as long as you've been around. But, I mean, to actually stay at the top of the division, I know you don't sit around and pat yourself on the back and look at your Wikipedia page and say, well, look what I did. But, I mean, that is an amazing accomplishment.

Like, when it's all said and done, like, you've got to take some pride in that considering all. I mean, we're talking about UFC history. No one has ever done that. I know what a, what a, what a, uh, how much work you put in just to get back there and then to actually become champion again. Yeah, most definitely. I'm, that's actually one of my proudest accomplishments. Um, like you said, that number two thousand, I think, eight hundred and twelve, um, you

know, that is a very long time. And this sport is brutal and there's always new, young, up and coming hungry fighters, like coming to, you know, take our place. And, um, it's definitely been a lot of work to, to maintain this level. and to, you know, like a lot of, it was just a lot of intention and just, you know, making sure that my body was taking care of and avoiding injuries and, you know, just working to constantly evolve because it's so easy to kind of get stuck in a certain, like, way of training or fighting and to stop growing. So it's, I've definitely had to be very intentional

over these, my whole career, but especially these last eight years to build my way back up to this title. When you think about other sports, you know, there are rare examples where you can see, you know, a player, you know, continue to create a legacy, you know, later in their career after starting out, you know, early in their career. I mean, you know, and we're talking about, like, all-time grades. We're talking about, you know, Tom Brady, LeBron James, like a few people in sports history who have had that kind of longevity where they're still winning championships, you know,

10 years after they won their first or whatever the case may be. I'm not asking you to put yourself in that same conversation, but do you take pride in that? Because when you look at all, and to me, mixed martial arts, and that's no offense to basketball, basketball or football, football is obviously very, very hard on your body as well. But MMA is so hard on your body and your mind and there's no guarantee. This isn't like football where you just win a tournament and you get a title shot. You know, we talk many times when you after he had beat Jan Jan Jan Nann, like, we're like, why aren't you getting the title shot? Like you should have been the game, you should have gotten the title shot. So there's no

guarantees in this sport. Like that longevity is incredible. And again, I know that you're not sitting there thinking about it all day until I ask you that question. But when you hear your name mentioned along other all-time grades that are able to do that like does that mean does that mean as much to maybe even as the championship like just getting back there yeah most definitely even to be able to fight for the title um i was already like so proud of myself um just because it was just this huge step and you know just to for rose and i to be at the top of the division like to kind of start the division and still be at the top of eight years is you know it's pretty amazing to me like i'm just like wow, that is so cool.

But you know, you're right. I don't try and like usually like sit and just dwell on, you know, accomplishments or anything because I still have things to accomplish. So, you know, but it's definitely a great feeling. And, you know, I hope I can, you know, continue that. And, you know, and unlike football and basketball and all these other sports, it's not a team sport, you know. To win a championship, it's not like, oh, we have a really great team.

you know, not that those other athletes aren't like that at the top and amazing, but it's just, it's just you in that cage. It's just you in that octagon. So when you win or you lose, that's all you. Absolutely. I'm curious. I was talking to Alan Jo Ban the other day and he was talking about like advice he would have given himself earlier in his career and advice he offers young fighters in terms

like, you know, doing things in their career. I'm curious, Carla, like I know there's no necessarily secret sauce. Like you're, you know, you have like one thing that you've done that's like allowed you to stay at this peak for such a long time. But if you were going to offer advice to a younger fighter coming up, you know, getting into UFC at, you know, 21, 22 years old, whatever the case may be, like, what advice would you offer them if they want to have that? Again, I know it's not one secret thing you're doing, but what advice would you give them?

Because we know that this career can chew you up and spit you out really quickly. I mean, I don't know the average timeline of a UFC career, but I know it's not that long. I mean, it's not, you know, if you average everyone together, I got to imagine it's like six, seven, eight fights maybe when you take all of it together. What advice would you give a young fighter who wants to have that kind of career because it's not easy. And again, the list of MMA fighters who have done it is really, really short. Yeah, most definitely.

I mean, you know, historically we've seen a lot of these fighters kind of like have this really like explosive kind of rise to the top and then they just kind of fall out. And because it is so hard to maintain and be at this sport for so long. So I guess I'd have to say the best advice I could give. it's probably like two things. On the on the physical aspect, it would be just, you know, taking that time to like really focus on your health,

like foam rolling, stretching, body care. Like when you're injured, like rest, you know, like take the time. Because, you know, as much as like it's not all about the injuries, like the training part is easy. That's the fun part, you know. The hard part I feel like is, you know, knowing when to pull back and be intelligent about like you're resting and not getting burnt out mentally on this sport

because it is very taxing and it demands a lot of you. So I guess it's just like really taking care of yourself. And, you know, not that you should be taking like six months off just for fun and going on vacation. But just, you know, just making sure that like you can do this a long time. And just by taking care of your body, being intelligent, choosing your training partners. And, you know, just being smart about your body. But on the training aspect, on the learning side, of things, I guess I would just say, go where, like, go where it's hard. Like, if, if you're

really good at wrestling, like, you should be focusing on other things, really try and, like, balance yourself out and keep improving. Never be afraid to be a student and, like, learn the basic, relearn the basics because, you know, as much as I've been doing this for so long, like, there's even some basic things, like, that I'm still having to go over. And it's, like, like, oh, keep your hands up. This is how you jab. You know, it's just you can never stop learning and being that student and that beginner almost. Absolutely. I'm not sure if you saw, I think it was a couple weeks ago. Magumi Fuji did an interview and she talked about you and she said that, you know, you're an inspiration, you know, because you fought her very early in your career. And she

said, you know, seeing what you're doing with your career and seeing how you've been able to, you know, stay at the top for so long. She said you're an inspiration to her and other fighters. I don't know you saw that, but I thought that was pretty awesome because when I was coming up covering the sport, like, Magumi Fuji was the fighter. Like, she was it. Like, she was, you know, what we, what we now talk about, like, with Amanda Nunes now. Like, she was the fighter at that point. I just thought that was awesome.

Like, she's like, I fought her so early in her career. And now to see that she's still going and she's still a champion. Like, she's like, that's just amazing to see. Yeah, I mean, that's really great to hear. I actually didn't hear that interview. But that's really cool because, you know, she was when I was coming up to, I mean, she was the legend, you know, she was when I fought her, she was 20 and L and had like, mostly all finishes the mission.

So, you know, she was just like at the time considered like the goats. So, you know, just to hear. And she actually fought for a very long time too, I think close to when she was 40. So she definitely had longevity, but the sports definitely evolved a lot over the years. And it's cool to see that she's still kind of keeping track. And she's definitely was fighting her was a pivotal moment in my career for sure. And that was like three or four fights in your career. That's how ridiculous that is.

you were fighting one of the, I mean, at that time, she was probably the pound for pound best woman in the world, and you're fighting her like three, four fights in your career. That's crazy. Yeah, no, I definitely looked back to it. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe that happened. I'm probably one of, you know, just in comparison, like, it's almost like you said, finding the Amanda Nunes right now, but fighting her like three, four fights in, like, it was definitely, you know, it ended up being a great decision. You know, this is my first time, like, you know, being, like, on TV and in Bellator, and it was like a really short-noticed fight, which is why I got the opportunity,

because initially I didn't even have enough fights for them to want me in the tournament. So, you know, I'm definitely glad I got to step in the cage with the legend for sure. Yeah. So now, Carla, we spoke, you know, again, after your title fight win, and, you know, I'm not going to rehash everything. You said very honestly, you know, that wasn't the fight with Rosnamu, Unish, you wanted. But at the end of the day, you got to win, you got the title. That's what you matter. that's what matters most.

Coming into this fight with Zhang Wei Lee, now, Zhang is a, you know, we know she's a pretty action-packed fighter. You know, she's a, you know,

kind of a very aggressive move forward kind of fighter. But do you, do you put any extra pressure on yourself, like to go out there and like, kind of define your title with a win like this or with a fight like this? Or do you just put everything in the past and say, this is just a different fight?

Because I know, like, leading into this, you're going to answer a million questions about the rose fight. People are going to bring it up and say, you know, the rose fight, but we know Zhang is a different fighter. but I don't know, like, do you put pressure on yourself for performances, or is it ultimately just always about the win? Like, I don't care how I how I get there as long as I walk away at the W, that's all it matters.

I mean, the win at the end of the day is the most important thing. But, of course, I'm always working on, you know, solidifying a win and, you know, kind of exciting the fans. Obviously, with the last performance, you know, there is more pressure to want to put on a really exciting. exciting fight. So that is the goal and I have been working really hard to, you know, to put on a great performance. I've had an amazing training camp. I've worked really hard. So, you know, hopefully, hopefully all goes as planned. You know, you, you know, and you know this, Carla, because we've talked many times about this, for some reason, people love to doubt you. I'll never understand that, considering all you've done in your career and the wins. And again, I go back and,

you know, just list off the resume again. But people consistently, like now you're fighting, Zhang Willie and people are saying, oh, well, she can't deal with Zhang's power and Zhang's so strong and Zhang is the favorite, all these kind of things. Like, do you ever smile or laugh or does it get irritating? People continue to doubt you for some unknown reason, even though you have been what,

I mean, I think, listen, I know you're probably not going to say this, but like when we get done, you know, years from now, like we talk about the greatest straw weight of all time, like the conversation is going to be pretty short and you're going to be on that list, whether it's number one, number two, whatever it is. But people love to doubt you for some reason. And I don't know why I'll never understand it.

Obviously, I don't. But I'm curiously how you react. Do you laugh? Do you take it as motivationally? How do you deal with that? Yeah, it is funny. You know, before it kind of, I would say early in my career would kind of bum me out. I'm like, hey, like, you know, like, I'm a good fighter.

Like, I can, you know. But now it actually does kind of just make me smile and laugh. It almost makes me feel like I know that I kind of have like a little secret that, you know, people are just like, hey, like, I think you're going to, this is going to happen or that's going to happen. And I'm just kind of like, okay. But deep down, like, I know, like, I have my, like, my secret. Like, I'm like, you'll see, you'll see. But I don't need to talk about it.

And I think that's been the style of my coach and my gym, you know, since I've been there. It's like, do you're talking in the cage. Like, I don't need to tell you what I'm going to do. Like, I'm going to show you. Yeah. And when you look at Zhang, I mean, listen, I'm not going to, you know, I don't get into game plan and things like that. But we know that Zhang is a really good.

good fighter. She wouldn't be here otherwise. I think we both agree when we spoke the last time that, you know, in all honesty, you know, Marina Rodriguez probably deserved it more than her, but listen, you know, deserve, I say it all the time. If you want to stay sane in this sport, Tulse deserves out of your vocabulary because it'll just drive you insane. But it's funny, because a lot of people talk about Zhang, like she's this unbeatable monster. Don't get me wrong, she's very, very good. It's not a knock on her. But we have seen her lose. We have seen her go out there, you know, the fights with Rose, a fighter, of course, you have a couple wins over. Like, is it, is it like, I don't know, like, when you look at Jane, like, do you, I know you do,

but like, you see holes in her game, right? Like, you see there, there are different ways to beat her. Yeah, most definitely. You know, I have done my studying and I, and I have seen, you know, holes and things that I feel like I can take advantage of. But, you know, at the end of the day, like you said, at this level and being a former champ, like everyone's going to be really good. And I think it's because she's so dangerous and she comes out really,

strong that she has had like these explosive like first round finishes and stuff so you know i'm definitely not uh looking past how dangerous she is and her knockout power and how strong she is because i think that's obvious to see but you know i'm pretty strong myself or else i probably wouldn't be here at this point so you know i'm not you know i'm i go into every fight knowing that you know the possibilities like this is a dangerous sport people it's it's the hurt business you know So I go into there and, you know, prepare as best as I can and, you know, let the cars follow where they may. Yeah. And you always, in my opinion, you always have the great equalizer, which is your wrestling, you know, no matter who you fought. And we've seen Jane get taken down. You know, I mean, that's, again, that's part of the sport.

But, you know, you always had that great equalizer, which again, I say it all the time, wrestling is the absolute best base for mixed martial arts because you cannot duplicate that. You cannot replicate that. And it's not easy to do like you who've been wrestling, you know, almost your entire. entire life wrestling at the college level, things like that. You always have that great equalizer. I think that's something that gets lost in there. It's like people forget how good of a wrestler you are. And you can always turn to that. And listen, as good as Zhang may be and she is incredibly good,

she doesn't have that wrestling background. She doesn't have that pedigree. And that's something you can always turn to to just change the momentum of a fight. Yeah, most definitely. I don't think in my career there's been anybody that I can recall or, you know, hardly anybody that I have not been able to take down. even in my losses, I feel like I've had, you know, some take down. So, you know, I feel confident in my wrestling.

I mean, you never know, but I don't think Waley has ever fought anyone like me. I don't think she's fought this type of fight. And I think she's even said that in an interview. So we'll kind of see, like, how she reacts because I've never seen her go against someone like me. So I don't really know, like, how good she is there. But, you know, it's not easy fighting someone completely different than what you have seen before. Yeah. We talk about people wanting to doubt you

And then you know going out and once again Like I said you're an underdog going in the fight Which again I get it you know odds are what they are I mean again a lot of that's just so they get people to put money on the fight And things like that But when you get a win when you go out there and you get a win over a fighter like Zhang Lee like do you feel like a little bit of pride in yourself once again People have kind of doubted you and saying oh she's so strong she's all this

And like you get to hold that title a little bit higher right Like when people are doubting you and saying oh you can't beat her really You can't beat her? Okay well let's see what happens yeah most definitely i mean it's always a really great feeling to win but you know just to silence all the doubters you know there's a little bit of extra satisfaction to that and unfortunately fortunately it's something i've gotten to do a lot in my career um but like you said i i'm a i'm a betting underdog usually and um you know my friends and family have thank me and fans because i won them a lot of money

in the past so you know it is what it is been i definitely don't mind being the underdog. Yeah. Let me ask, I know your focus is 110% on Zhang Wei, so I'm not looking past her in any way, shape, or form. But, you know, we've seen that, you know, the top of this division for the past, let's just say a couple years, has been pretty, you know, has been pretty, you know,

solid with just a few fighters near that race. Obviously, yourself, Zhang, Rosnami Eunice. It was Joanna for a while. Of course, we know she's retired now. And there's a couple hours, but we've just seen, like, it's not easy to get to this level. I mean, a fighter you fought, you know, Yan Shan, you know, she had a loss to you, and then she had kind of a bit of a controversial loss to Marina.

And then she goes out there and beats McKenzie. McKinsey Dern is a fighter everyone thought was going to be, you know, the next big thing. And she may still be. She's still very young, but, you know, right now, like she's had that loss. And then, you know, you look at other fighters, like, and you're, like, because I know it's weird, Marina Rodriguez would actually be a rematch for you. You have a win over her already. But, like, after, if everything goes well on November 12th and you get past Schengler,

is there a party that's like, I'd like to see some new blood? Like, not to say you wouldn't fight Rose again or not to say you wouldn't fight somebody else, you know, a rematch. But like, is there a party that's like, I'd like to see some new blood get up here because we have seen, I won't say it's stagnant. Maybe that's the wrong word. But we have seen like some of the like some of the top fighters aren't fighting other fighters.

We're just seeing them fight each other. Yeah, most definitely. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's just kind of like I know Rose and Joanna have fought twice. Rose and Whaley have fought twice. Roe and Joanna and Whaley have fought twice. You know, I mean, definitely there's a lot of like these people at the top that are kind of like holding that spot that are like going back fighting each other multiple times yeah i think real spot

uh and dros twice and me twice you know so i mean she's just so good and she's kind of like just kept her spot at the top um i think new blood is inevitable i mean fighters i mean you can only be here for so long as you said it's hard to kind of maintain this level and there's always new younger fighters knocking at the door for me personally i can fight whoever like that's never matter to me. I've only had one rematch in my career, so it's not really been like a big issue for me. I've actually kind of been called like the gatekeeper for the strawweight division for a few years because all the young up-and-comers would like fight me and I, you know, I'd kind of be like that person to either knock them off or let them in. Yeah, it's not easy though, right? Like,

it's not easy to get to that level. I mean, again, you just talk about Jan Jan Jan, like you beat her pretty dominantly and then she just beat, you know, kind of again, one of the fighters, everyone said, oh, maybe she's going to be the next big thing, well, she goes out there and beats her. You know, I think Marina Rodriguez is probably the one name that hasn't been there, and I know she has a fight coming up. And I know you said, you know, in all honesty, she probably was more deserving of a title shot.

So it would be fun to see those matchups. I know Yan called out Rose, and we haven't seen Rose fought, you know, fights since she fought you. Like, it's fun to see those different matchups, right? So maybe there's at least the possibility of seeing different fights. Yeah, most definitely. I mean, like, that's always the exciting part of the sport, right?

You're like, ooh, you know, this is. is a competitive matchup. I wonder who's going to win this. It's exciting constantly seeing like new people and new matchups and stuff and someone, you know, kind of just coming up through the ranks and you're just like, well, this person's interesting. Like, what do they have to show and how are they going to compete at this top level against these veterans? So it's always kind of fun to watch this old school, new school kind of matchups. But yeah, I mean, for me, it's like I love to watch whoever fight and and I'm always throughout my career like I've never turned down a fight so you know whoever they put in front of me I'm game well that's another thing to

talk about your career carl is that you know you've never been that fighter to pick and choose opponents I mean when you look at your resume you fought veterans of course but you also you mentioned you know up in covers people try to get into that top 10 trying to get in that top five you've never turned that away and we got to be honest like we know there are people who aren't doing that like I've heard this argument so many times from the rankings when someone's ranked number nine and the number five fighter just will not fight them because they don't want to risk their position they're like I only want to fight up I only want to fight up you've never been now you know someone's maybe a detriment but you've never

turned down those fights you've never backed down from a challenge you've never said you know what you're ranked nine I don't want to fight you that's something else you got to be able to be proud of because let's be honest Carla there's a lot of people not naming names but there's a lot of people who do not and will not do that yeah most definitely I mean I've definitely seen it a lot over the years myself. I mean, there's people that, you know, try and pick and choose and, you know, like move their career in a certain way. But, you know, once you get to a certain point, if you want to be the best, you've got to kind of be able to test yourself and, and fight whoever, you know, and just rise to that challenge. So for me, it's like I've never felt like I

had to say no, if anything. I mean, I've won, I've lost, you know, not to say like I'm unbeatable obviously, but, you know, it's, it's, we're in a sport of, like, challenging ourselves and wanting to be the best. If you got to, if you want to be the best, you got to beat the best. Yeah, absolutely. Real quick before I get you out of, we talked earlier about, you know, kind of starting this second run as tie as champion. And we talked after the title fight. You mentioned, like, the last title reign was so weird because you go through that crazy ultimate fighter season, dealing with, you know, just insanity of that. And then you go right into the title fight with Rose. And then literally three months later, you turn around to fight,

you want to, and I know you said, like, you want to have almost a bit of a do over this time because you didn't get that opportunity to, like, rest and actually, you know, recover from the Rose fight, you went right into the Yonah fight. Now you said, like, you took some time off, you're able to keep your body healthy, like, is there a little bit of, like, extra motivation going into the second title reign to, to kind of not, again, you're not erasing the past necessarily, but to kind of reestablish yourself as champion and as the best in the division, because, again, I'm not making excuses for you, but the last one was really weird.

Like you've admitted that. We've talked about that. Like it was just a really weird set of circumstances going from the reality show, title fight, and the three months later defending your title. Do you feel like this is a little bit of like a bit of a do-over for you to like kind of reestablish yourself as champion here? Yeah,

most definitely. Like I said in the past, it's definitely a big regret of mine, not, you know, being able to put my foot down and wait a little bit longer to fight and give myself a little bit more time that I knew that I needed. But,

you know, I was able to do that for this fight. And last fight, that last title defense, I was definitely not physically there. I was not mentally there. I was very small walking around, probably like 115 pounds. So, you know, now I feel like I'm in a completely different place. Like mentally, I've had that time to kind of, you know, just refresh my mind, you know, get ready for this and prepare and physically I feel great.

Like I'm stronger than I've ever been. So for me, you know, no matter what. what the outcome is, I can feel satisfied that, sorry. I got you, no, sorry. I can feel satisfied that I'm going into this fight, you know, at my best. And, you know, win or lose, if you know that that's you going in there,

doing everything you could, you can feel satisfied with the outcome because you gave it everything you had. And that's how I'm gonna feel like walking out of this fight. I'm going in there to win, you know, make no mistake about it, but no matter what, like I know that I've given this camp everything I had.

Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, I love that because again, that was just a, you know, thankfully you didn't have to go through a reality show again this time. But yeah, like actually giving yourself time to rest and relax and go on a honeymoon and do the things you did. Like you actually have some time before fights and now, like, we are now going to see the best Carlos Sparza. Yeah, most definitely. I'm really excited to go out there and put on a performance and I hope I'm able to show everything that I've been working on. Now, I know that, you know, you are a big fan after bites of, you know, enjoying a couple sweets.

There's a reason why you are the cookie monster. Be honest. Is there a certain level of excitement about being in New York? Because I've been to New York many times. I love New York. And there is no shortage of good stuff to eat after a fight in New York. Oh, my gosh. I am so excited.

I've even, like, ask my husband. I'm like, can you pick up a couple of these things for me while you're there? And I'm waiting for a see after. So, like, New York has amazing food. And I'm really excited to hopefully celebrate with another. victory cookie after the fight. I love it. I love it. Well, Carla, it's always a pleasure to catch up. Thank you, as always, for taking

the time. I really do appreciate it. Have a great rest of your training camp. Safe travels out to New York, and best of luck in the title fighting. Again, thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. Always great to talk to you. Thanks, Damon. Talk to you soon. Bye. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Okay. Only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there. The last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.