MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Voices His Concerns for Alex Pereira Ahead of UFC 313 and Is This Do-or-Die for Justin Gaethje?

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin preview UFC 313 including Alex Pereira defending his title during a time when there’s been concerns that perhaps he’s had too many distractions lately leading into a massive main event. Plus Justin Gaethje returns for a short-notice showdown against Rafael Fiziev but is this a do-or-die moment for his career where a win vaults him back into title contention but a loss could potentially lead to his retirement? All this and more on the latest episode! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer International Edition. I'm still in America, but my co-host and UFC legend Matt Brown is not because he is in Thailand currently. Thailand. How is everything, Matt?

And the land of smiles, bro. This is the greatest place in the world. It is. It is a lot of places. the world but it's a fun spot it's late night for me it's earlier for you you're literally 12 hours ahead of me so we're we're going to be having some fun recording times with these next month or so while you're traveling yeah i'm in the future right now and future looks good how is uh i know you i know you i know you love thailand how is uh how is training i saw a couple videos over there i know

you always like going over there how is the training yeah i'm fun man i've only trained a couple days. I've been, you know, getting over the jet lag and everything, but it's great, man. You know, I love the style of training over here, the culture of training. It's just completely different than the States. And, you know, I think there's a time and a place for both, right? Like, both are good and both are fun. But the way over here is much different. And it's more fun, you know, it's more relaxed and, you know, just go to the gym and just hang out for the day and, you know, grab some food and you know at the gym and just chill and you know just kind of play around more it's like a lifestyle i don't know i've never been there but i always hear it's like a lifestyle

there like that's just like you're getting to fighting like it's a lifestyle there yeah there's not a lot of i guess people like how would you say like diversity in what you're doing with your life you know it's like if you're a fighter like yeah that's what you do you're at the gym and you're training all day. If you're like a restaurant tour, you're at the restaurant all day. There's not a lot of like crossover. You know, we're in America like you have to work a job. Like you have to, um, you know, you have to supplement income by doing different things. And fighting is like, okay, I hope that this works. It's like here you just, you know, well, also I'm American and everything's a lot cheaper here. So I can afford it. But, yeah, you just sit at the gym all day.

And obviously, you know, different being a tourist. But yeah, you just go to the gym all day and, hang out and you know there's like uh guys tie guys like wait sitting around all day hanging out at the gym you know give them a few hundred bot and the whole pads for 30 minutes and they're just like kind of there any time of the day you know so yeah well there's a reason i mean you see i mean you see a lot of guys go over there training i mean obviously like i know alexander volcanowski was just over there and trains like it's a pretty big culture i know valentina shienko goes over there and trains like it's a pretty big culture where fighter like well-known or spend a lot of time training in Thailand.

Yeah, and the thing is, like, you know, that that guy that's sitting around waiting the whole patch for you, he could be a fucking, you know, Limpini champion. You know what I mean? Like, again, like you said, it's just a lifestyle, man. They live different and so much knowledge just floating around everywhere. And, you know, most of the ties, they kind of, they don't necessarily know who I am. So you kind of have to get past and let him know, like, okay, I'm not a tourist, you know, looking for you to hold pads and tell me to kick harder for 30 minutes.

It's like, you know, I want to learn some actual knowledge. But I have some great friends over here and we just had a great time. And I guess what you've seen on Instagram, I was training with my dude Johnny Betts. He's a foreigner, but he's lived here for a while. And one of the best clinchers in boytai. He's got tons of boytai fights. And he's one of the best clinchers in Muay. There's a reason why you see guys, and they're not even showing the full record,

guys like sanchai rodang have like 110 wins and like 19 losses and those aren't even their full records because that's all they do is fight man like they'll finally five times in a week yeah well that's another like really cool thing here is you can the area that i'm at you could literally go to a different fight show every night you know there's probably like 10 15 different stadiums that are holding shows two three days a week literally every night you could just go to a different fight show and you don't know where you're probably you're going to get you know i went to one last night and there was probably the kids were probably like 10 years old and you know they're throwing down balls out um and then there's you know some guys you can

tell they're just kind of like you know like like some foreigners that are like yeah i just want to fight in thailand and you're like bro like he really shouldn't be doing this and and then you know you'll get the next fucking sanchai in there also you know so you just don't really know what you're going to get. When does, when does blob tank fight? When does he show up and fight in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the ring? When does that happen? We'll see. So we're doing a show March 9th. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if Blop Tang is going to be involved with that or not. Because, you know, the fight circus stuff I do over here, I mean, I have no idea what I'm getting into until it happens. And, you know, they, they, they call me or we have meetings and talk about, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. And then I get to the show and It's like nothing that we even talked about.

And it's like, it's so random and spontaneous. It's just a blast. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, obviously, again, we appreciate you still doing the show while you're literally traveling around the world. Obviously, on this side of the world, of course, we are now just battered days away from UFC 313.

We did have some changes last week, of course. We lost Dan Hooker, unfortunately. But talk about a hell of a replacement. Hoffield Fiziv's happened in there on short notice, take on just against you. The first fight was amazing. I mean, I'm a little bummed because Dan Hooker, I think it was a cool opportunity for him. And obviously, he's been on a good streak and kind of a bummer you're not getting that. But credit to Fizziv, man, because I had heard a couple other potential rumors of guys they were going to pull in.

I'm like, I think Fiziv really was the best choice just in terms of like ranking. He's coming back from an injury. Obviously, Justin's coming off a loss too. Seems like a good fight to make. And again, for a short notice, co-main event, I mean, you really couldn't do a whole lot better. Yeah. to Fiziv, right? He gets a chance to, you know,

claim back what he lost the first time, you know? Obviously, it's on short notice this time, but, you know, man, Fiziv, I've always thought that he'd be a champion. And I'd like to, I think he'll put on better performance this time. I think it's going to be interesting. You know, maybe the short notice could actually help him, right? Assuming he's been training and, you know, his cardio's not affected.

Sometimes, you know, the long camp, the shit starts getting in your head, you know, and you start overworking yourself or start getting overstressed or different things. And maybe this short notice will actually do well for him. Can I ask, I don't think, I'm sure you didn't see it. You've been traveling, but Justin Gates, he did a couple of interviews after the fight got made.

And I think it was on Jim Rome. And Jim Rome was basically asking, like, you know, coming back from getting knocked out for the first time, really. Like, Justin's lost by TKO, but he's never been not cold. And that's what Max Holloway did last year at U.S. 300. It's been about a year ago. and he said, you know, how does it affect you?

Like, how does it do it? And Justin said, he's like, he's like, I got, like, I'm scared again. Like, I got scared again, like, coming out of that. Like, I didn't have that feeling of fear in the same way. And he's like, that kind of knocked that back into me. I'm curious because, like, Justin is such a ferocious fighter. Is there, like, I don't think it's going to change who he is. I really don't.

I think Justin's just built one way, and I don't think he's going to change. but is it possible that that knockout could change him in some way not only physically when we saw it I always bring this up you know Roy Nelson had the greatest chin maybe ever Mark Hunt cracked him that one time knocked him out and he was never quite the same again in terms of being able to take damage so that I can't answer we have no idea until Justin Gage she takes punches you know in a matter of days can he still take those punches

but psychologically that can mess with you right Like when you've gone through this long of a career and never been knocked flat like that, like it can mess with you, can't it? I guess, yeah, that's interesting. You know, I got knocked out once in my career by Donald Stroney. And, you know, it didn't mess with me at all. I was like, that's actually, I think it actually loosened me up a little bit. I was like, dude, that shit wasn't that bad at all.

Like, yeah, that's really not the worst thing ever at all. You just wake up and you're like, I got, I must not have won because I'm waking up. I'm sorry. I thought, but yeah, it'd be interesting if that plays a factor. You know, and Fiziv is a tough guy

to come back to if you're going to have a little bit of psychological issues, you know, going there, being a little gun shy or a little nervous about getting hit

because you're going to get hit if you fight Faziv. So that's not a good place to be, but it's cool that he's open and honest about it. And yeah, I guess, you know,

that's to be seen, right? But, I think, I always, I've always been, you know, take shots, you know. So that could be a big problem if that is actually a psychological issue that he's dealing with. I will say this.

I've always appreciated Justin's approach in the whole, like, when he's had fights where he's lost or taken damage, like, because we know that's just Justin Gagie's style. He doesn't rush back in there. He's very cognizant of like brain health. Like he didn't fight, you know, he fought Holloway last April. It's been almost a year. He took off time to make sure he had time to heal. I think style-wise and like the approach to fight,

I think you and Justin have a very similar mindset. Like it's just you're going in there to war. And I don't want to misquote Justin, but he's always kind of had that same like, you know, I go in Saturday not knowing if I'm going to live through to Sunday. That's always kind of been his approach. And I know that's very much was your approach during your career. I don't think it's, I actually in a weird way, like him acknowledging it,

I actually think it could be a good thing because he's not shying away from like, hey, like, oh, yeah, it's no big deal. Like, he's like, yeah, it sucked. it's scary. Like, you know, you never go through that your entire career. I think him facing and being open and honest about it. And also, I just can't imagine Justin being a different guy. Like, he's been the same dude all this time. I can't imagine him suddenly becoming a wrestler or sudden, you know what I mean? Like George St. Pierre, we always bring up his thing where he got knocked out bad by Sarah and then suddenly started wrestling. That was still very early in his career.

Justin's who he is. I don't think he's going to suddenly change this because he got knocked out one time. He kind of is who he is, but he's evolved somewhat. He has had better defense and strategized a bit better in the last few years. But like you said, you know, he still has that dog in and that natural instinct that like Holloway pulled out of him, right? When he said step in the middle and throw down, right? You know, it's obviously a mistake on Justin's part.

But yeah, I just, I find it really interesting. This is what's happening before fighting Fiziv, you know, or even Hooker. You know, even though hooker's not quite the knockout guy, Faiziv is, or not, you know, in my opinion, I don't know, record-wise, where the difference would be. But Faisiv, I mean, I think you're just, you're always at risk with Faisiv. Like, he just has such good technique, such good power. You know, so generally has a really good strategy. So I think, and the strategy for Justin, I think, you know, to go for a takedown would be very intelligent, right?

it would be very smart for him. So I wouldn't put it past them to do that. I think this is really interesting also because I feel like this is a fight that can go one or two ways for Justin Gagchi. Because he said, like, timing-wise and where, you know, you remember the thing to have with Dustin Porre last year. He's like, if he can go out there and beat Fazeeb, knock him out and finish him, you know, I know we're all talking about Ilya, we're talking about Aram and Siruqi. We're talking about Charles Lovarra, but we all know that, like, circumstances can have. and timing happens, maybe there's a way that Justin Gachie wins. And he mentioned, he said, maybe there's a way I win, I knock him out, and I get a title shot.

I'm not saying he should or it's going to happen, but there's a world where it could happen. We can't say it doesn't. But there's also the flip side. If Fizu comes in on 10 days notice and he can knock out Justin Gachian, I'm going to the extreme and say knock out, not just win, I'm saying knock him out, where this may be Justin Gachie's last fight, because Justin's been very honest. He said, I don't have a ton of time left in the sport. he's in his mid-30s.

And I think, again, he's very cognizant about not, like, as much damage as he's taken, I think he's very cognizant that he knows there is a time limit to that. It's weird because it feels like this is a fight where it could, like, swing, the pendulum could swing huge one way or the other for Justin Gagie here. Yeah, I totally agree. It's interesting. When you see the guys like Justin Gagie or Robbie Lawler, when you watch them fight, you're like, they're just wild brawlers.

no brain or just go. And then you kind of get behind the scenes. You're like, man, these are actually some of the most intelligent, well-thought-out guys in the sport, right? And just the way they fight doesn't necessarily, you know, expose, like, who they are as people, you know? So, but you know what? They could also kind of go the same way for a Fiziv, right?

Like, this is a huge turning point in his career, too. He's been kind of knocking on that top five for a long time and beating Justin Gagee, might finally actually get him there, right, and get him to where he's been trying to get for a long time. And I think he's got the skill to do it. Absolutely. I mean, if you go back to when we broke down the first fight, I think I'm not putting words on it.

I think you leaned Fiziv a little bit, and I think I leaned Gajee. Gensi ended up winning. It was a super close fight. Fiziev started really strong. He won early. Gachi came back late. It was a great fight, though.

It was super close. I think it was a majority decision, a real close fight. I think this one's going to be great, too. but it is kind of funny. Like, this is a great fight and what a great replacement. But again, for both guys, like that pendulum swings big in this fight because, yes, Fiziv's taking this on short notice, but you and I know, but you and I know better than anyone.

That short notice came into a fight with an injury. No one remembers that six months from now, a year from now. You have a loss on your record. It's a loss on your record. You don't get that back. We talked about that with the whole Henry Sehudo thing with the iPogue. Like we can sit there and say, man, that iPok's. and should have been a point deduction.

A year from now, people are just going to see loss. They're not going to know the story. They're not going to pay attention to the story. So for Fiziv, like, this is a big risk. He's stepping in. And I know it's a risk for Gagee, too, of course. But, like, it's a risk because if Fiziv loses, that's three in a row. I know he had the injury, but still, again, same thing.

Three in a row, three in a row. Yeah, people look at the paper, right, the record. And then that's it. And so what was the highest of Fiziziz's ever been ranked? I think it was like, I think it was like, seven when he fought Gagy the first time. Yeah. Well, as I say, he's kind of knocked on that door of the top five.

And this might actually be the first step to getting him there. Because I think he should be up there competing with all those guys. I don't know exactly what it's, you know, I think Gagy was probably knocked him back. But I don't know exactly, you know, why he hasn't done that. You know, just when I watch him fight, I'm like, man, this guy has all the tools to be up there and just a fantastic fighter. But, you know, maybe this will finally be his time. Maybe that's why he's willing to take it on 10 days notice. Like he's feeling it, right?

He's coming back. And sometimes those losses can fire a guy up. Sometimes that's what the fire under the ass is you might get a little bit comfortable. You know, you kind of get in the groove of things, getting your routine. And then realize that you need to step it up a little bit. You need to get some fire back under your ass. Sometimes the loss is what it takes. And, you know, with two in a row, that might have sparked a fire hunters out.

He might go in there and, you know, it might be his time now. And remember, the last loss was an injury. He had that his knee blew out against Gamrod. But as we said, it's a loss. Doesn't matter, you know, so people forget. So you're right. Yeah, but it's called like the Sherdog or Tapology record, you know, it doesn't have an asterisk with, you know, an explanation of what happened, right?

Like, sometimes they do have little little things to say something. But there's not like a paragraph explanation, you know, where it was, oh, okay, well, maybe that shouldn't count so much. It's like, no, it's either W or L. That's the only part that people look at. Do you agree with me, though, in terms of like Gachey's situation now, where it is kind of like, you know, I mean, obviously, if they go out and put on a fight of the year,

win or lose, we're going to walk away, say, man, great performance. Let's see it again. But I'm just saying, I'm playing the extremes here. Like, if he goes out and knocks off his eve, I'm not saying he should get a title shot. I think we could probably all agree that Armand or Charles should be ahead of him. But, you know, you never know

with timing and things how that works. And obviously at worst, he would be maybe a fight away from that. But on the, you swing completely in the other direction. If he gets finished by Fazeve, I mean, we might be seeing Justin Gagee for the final time. Am I wrong in thinking it could be that big of an extreme?

If, again, I'm talking like if he gets a knockout or he gets knocked out. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, he's talked about it very openly, right? You know, he's not going to keep doing this if he's not going to be champion. And, you know, I felt the same way in my career, which is why I ultimately ended up retiring.

It's like, it's like, what do you do? Just fighting for a payday. And, you know, and I did that some. But, you know, Gagie, I don't see him doing that. You know, I don't think he's interested in fighting for paydays. I think, you know, he wants to be champion. That's his sole mission in this sport. And if he's not going to get it, then he's going to get out of it.

And like you said, if he wins, you know, getting a title shot, Like you said, he's at least back in that picture with those top guys, right? Like you said, getting title shot, you know, at this point, you know, coming off of the loss and then, you know, just beating Fizeev. Like, that's not going to get him in title shot, but that's going to open some doors where he could get, you know, contender fights and get, you know, be back in that mix with those guys. 100%. We were talking, we were talking last week about Ilya, you know, maybe not getting the title. shot. I mean, could you imagine a world where we get

Armin and Gaei and we get Charles Oliver and Elia Tuporia and, you know, maybe whoever looks the best out of those four and ends up getting the title shot against Islam? I mean, that could happen. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. So, and that's the extreme here because if he wins, he's

right back in the mix. And because we got to, and again, I know no one remembers this, but the reality is he didn't need to fight Max Holloway. He was supposed to be getting a title shot and he took the fight, broke his nose, things went awry, and Max laid him out, that one of the greatest moments in the history of the sport. But a win, he's right.

But again, the flip side is a loss. And if he gets finished, again, I'm not saying, I'm not saying that's what's going to happen. I'm saying if that happens, because that is the extreme, right? Like, it's not just going in there and having an absolute brawl, and it's a classic, and we're just all talking about the fight. We don't really care who won or lost. I'm saying if he gets knocked out.

You know what I mean? If he gets knocked out, that's a couple knockouts in a row. That's going to knock him even further back. I mean, I don't know that he's going to leave. I don't know if Justin Gage he gets. knocked out is he going to be like man give me another one right now like i just don't know that's going to happen for sure and isn't that one of the great things about this sport man like when you kind of look behind the scenes and you know things like guess now when we watch that fight next week

you know we're going to feel that pressure because we know what's happening we know what's going through gaugie's head to some extent um we know what's on the line at least and you know it makes the fight just 10 times better and it's already a fucking amazing fight like i'd watch five even gaigi fight a hundred times. I don't care wins or loses. Like, I just watch them fight. Yeah, 100%. Make them unlimited rounds and let, you know, let somebody die in there because they're going to go until they die. Yeah, it's going to be great. Like I said, this is, again, this, they're stakes. I mean, there are real stakes in this fight for both guys. And it's weird because both guys coming off and lost, you're like, I just get a win. But that's bigger than just that. Like, again, like I said,

and it all depends on how it plays out. But like I said, I'm not, I'm not trying to, you know, make a headline here. I'm just saying there's a real world where Justin Gachi wins. He's really in title contention again. Justin Gachie loses. This might be his last one. Yep, yep. It'd be interesting to see how the fight plays out.

Because if Gigi does his normal Gigi fight, you know, this is probably a war. Yeah. And the university of Fiziv goes into a war too, right? I think Fizib totally has the ability to kind of pick apart. just engaging, you know, just kind of stay on the outside and jab and maybe teep and throw some kicks and kind of move away and not get engaged in the brawes. But I think he's got that lion in him too where he wants to step in there and swing for the fences.

Gagie has it. You know, and it's possible that Gagie just goes for a takedown or two and just says, you know, like let's not brawl this time. Let me just get this victory and get back in that title contention. So many different ways it could go. But, but. but most likely they go in there and swing for the damn fancic when we get you know another awesome fight from these two yeah so i'm i got to be honest i'm leaning gaichi just because he's

been in a full training camp he took time off to recover from the holloway fight it is short notice for fazeve the last one was a was amazing fight and it was super close but i just i never i never tend to favor the short notice guy especially when it's like this one like piziv had a fight a month later. He wasn't in a training camp. I know he's training, but again, training and training for a, training for a fighter, do different things. So I'm leading gauge. You have a hard time not picking him in this fight. I think it's going to be amazing. I think Fiziv's still going to put on a great show. I just, when you get that deep second, third round, that's where I think it's like, you know, I got to go with the guy who's actually been training for 15 minutes. So are you,

do you, do you agree, or are you going Fiziv? I'm right there with it. And, I mean, I think you just can't argue at the point. So you just said, I mean, you have to go with the guy who had the training camp. Just, you know, logically, you know, if you think about it, like, you just kind of have to lean that way. I'm really, I love Fazeep. He's one of my favorite fighters to watch. And I always cheer for him. So I hope he at least goes in there and puts on a good show.

And, you know, I want to see him fight those top guys. I want to see him up there, you know, with all the best in the division. So, you know, I want to see him win. but I got to be honest, you know, you know, Gagie had the camp. He's going to be prepared. You know, he took his time off. He's going to be healthy and ready to go. So you just have to lean towards Gagie in this one.

Wouldn't you like to see Fizzie versus Max Holloway? How fun would that fight be? I'm just starting. Yeah, I mean, like everybody in the top, I would like to see Fizte fight, honestly. I mean, you know, whether, you know, I mean, he's just, he just has that style, right? I mean, he's so good and so explosive and technical and just looks great out there fighting. So I'd love to see him fight all the top guys up there.

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Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners find fabulous for less. 100%. Main event, Matt, of course, is Alex Pereer, defending his title against Magamette and Kalaya. I think this is a tremendous fight. Maga Man and Kalaya has been waiting for this opportunity for a while. Now we could argue that he probably should have been there ahead of Kalil-Roundtree.

No offense to Kululah, of course. But, you know, he probably should have been in that title fight. Now we're finally getting it. But I want to bring this up to you, Matt, because there's this narrative going on right now. And it happens a lot when champions become super popular and they become superstars. Is Alex Pereira keeping his eye on the prize right now? And the reason I bring that up is because, you know, Daniel Cormier brought this up and he said you know you're traveling to australia with sean strickland kind of in the middle

of your camp like you're not really part of his team i know you're doing it is kind of like a favorite he was over doing media appearances and interviews and and obviously he's got a movie coming up now like he's going to be filming a movie soon and we know this we've had this story before we had it with connor we've had it with other fighters where ronda rousey's a great example of that where just like she got to the point where she's so big and she's getting all these opportunities and of course you want to take those opportunities because as you always say this is a very short window where you're in this sport and you're actually popular or you're huge um is there a concern or should we at least have a somewhat of a concern that that could happen to alice prayer right now

because he's on a different level now like his popularity i mean everyone in the world knows chama now you know everyone knows chama like we just know that with alaska but traveling to australia like i didn't love that for him either that was in the middle of january like that was I mean, middle of February, that's like a month out from his fight. Kind of seems weird to me. But anyways, in a movie, you know, he's got a movie he's coming out. And actually a big, like a real movie, not like the straight to Walmart movie, like a real like, you know, Hollywood movie.

Is there a risk that he's losing focus a little bit? Is that possible? Absolutely possible. Yeah. He doesn't come across the type to do that. But, I mean, how. I, yeah, I mean, it's a thousand percent possible because, like, the way that you train to get there is for, I would say the vast majority of guys is completely different than when you're there. And, you know, like, he didn't have distractions coming up.

He didn't have, I mean, he won, like, glory championship and everything. He didn't have a ton of popularity at that time. But now, like you said, I mean, he's got, he's getting hit from all angles. His mind, there's no way that it's. in exactly the same spot, the same hunger. And Anka Liev has a lot to prove here. He's got, he's an underdog. You know, a lot of people are probably writing him off.

And, you know, he feels like he's been kind of shorted this whole time, right? Having to work so much to get the title shot and felt like Alex was kind of ducked him, whether, you know, I doubt that he was, but, you know, is what it is, you know. And so, yeah, you know, he's fighting a guy that's hungry as, as fuck and what Alex you know Alex is an extremely skilled guy so you know

he could go in and win very potentially you know without the same hunger but that's going to come to an end at some point you know you got to stay you got to keep your eyes on the prize you got to stay focused you got to stay humble and you got to realize that this is

you know the fighting part is what got you there and that's where your low-hanging fruit is. That's what you got to keep your focus on. That's where you got to keep your eyes. And yeah, I have a little bit of concern about that, you know. You kind of start taking for granted, like, how good you are. Start buying into the hype a little bit.

And there's, we've seen it a million times, you know. It's not a, it's not a uncommon story by any means. Let me, let me throw you out. I'm not trying to play conspiracy theory. here, but let me explain why it is a little more concerning for me personally, and here's why. Alex was one of the greatest fighters on the planet five years ago, six years ago in glory. He was an unbelievable two-division champion, one of the best strikers on the planet, period. No doubt about it, right?

But in glory, you're just not a star of that level. You might be a star in like Amsterdam and like maybe in Brazil a little bit, but you're not a worldwide star. You are not a global star. He comes over here. All people knew him for all people. People did not give a damn. He was a glory champion. All they said was you're the guy who beat Israel out of Sanya.

That's how people knew him coming into UFC. He went out there and he knocked out of Israel out of Sanya. Of course, he got knocked out in the second fight. But then since then, he's built his own empire, so to speak, on doing what he's done in the Light Heavyweight Division. And it only grew to even more huge levels last year when he fought three times, you know, knocking out Yuri Pajaska, knocking out Jamal Hill and knocking out Kulow Roundtree,

epic incredible run through the year. Here's why I say it's a bit of a concern. It's because Alex is like 37, 38 now. He had to wait so long to get appreciated. I can't help but wonder if like he's finally like, man, people are finally showing me the respect I deserved 10 years ago when I was in the thick of my career at glory. And it can become a distraction because he's never really had this before.

Now he has it. And it's almost like, I'm going to enjoy it because I work my ass off to get here. I'm going to enjoy the fruits of my. labor. As you said, the problem is, though, while he's in Australia cornering Sean Strickland doing seminars and Q&A's and appearances, Magerman and Goliath is grinding in the gym and saying, I got one purpose on this world, and that's to beat Alex Pereira. That's why I'm a little concern because he's not even a young guy. He's actually a veteran, but I think that could be even more dangerous because he just didn't have that appreciation that he should have had. Now he's

finally getting in. It's almost like, I feel like that could be a distraction. Yeah, that's a great point. And the other point I would make on that, too, is like, we know, I don't know if I'd say factually, but pretty factually, like, Alex has weaknesses, and he has to put in a lot of work to catch those weaknesses up. You know, he has, I don't want to take away from anything that he's done, but he has had favorable matchups. He hasn't went against the great wrestlers or great jiu-jitsu guys or anything, great grapplers yet. like we know that he has these weaknesses that he what he needs to do to be

to continue to rise up is be put in the amount of time that he put on his striking for many years becoming glory two division champion and everything into the grappling because he has to recognize like this time is going to come you know like he has had favorable matchups and that's just again I'm not saying that to take

away from his insane run that he's had. I mean, it's been fascinating. It's been amazing. But I think we'd be fools to deny that, like, his matchups have been favorable. And he needs to be putting in that sort of energy and time into making those weaknesses strengths or at least minimizing those weaknesses.

And it's hard to believe that he's doing that while doing, you know, however many millions of other things, you know, in Australia or, you know, whatever it is that he's doing. So that's, I guess, where I would fear it the most. And that's an interesting point you bring up, too, you know, but it's, yeah, he's going to get, you know, I'm not going to say he's going to get exposed at some point, but like, it's going to be tested at some point. And I don't doubt that Ancolaev is going to try to test it. Like, it's in his best interest to try to test it. I think it's also interesting because on paper, this seems kind of like the least, the least interesting fight because Ancolae is just not a really well-known guy.

He's not like a super popular guy. He speaks Russian, doesn't speak English. You know, he has a lot of great finishes and stuff. But he's had a lot of fight night cards, things like that. And there was like a general excitement about, you know, UFC 300 was so huge. I mean, you know, Alex could have fought anybody. That would have been huge. But Jamal Hill coming back, obviously, we knew it was going to be a fun fight for as long as it. last year at Pahoshka, he's crazy,

even though that's going to be a fun fight. And Khalil Roundtree, even though he didn't really deserve that title shot, we knew his style. And we're like, that's going to be, as long as it lasts, it's going to be a fun fight. I think the danger here is that, like, no one's really paying a lot of attention to Anka Lian. Like, they're just like, oh, Alex Prayer is going to win.

And I would argue, this is the toughest matchup he's had since fighting Yon Blahovitch, who let's not forget, Jan Blahovic nearly got him in that first round when they fought. And then Yon kind of ran out of gas. I don't think it was that Alex. dominated him. I think Jan kind of ran out of gas a little bit. And he won. Don't get me wrong. I'm not taking the win away from Alex. But he didn't go out and just kick Jan Blahev's ass. Like, he had to kind of scratch and claw his way to a win after getting absolutely dominated in the first round. I think Ankleyev is the toughest fight he's fought since then in terms of styles. Like maybe Ankeliab isn't hasn't had titles like some of those guys have. He hasn't been a champion like Yeri or Jamal Hill. But stylistically, I think this is his toughest matchup. Yeah, Uncle I have does not get the hype around him like other guys have. And that's all it is.

It's just hype. But if you look at it objectively on paper or, you know, just objectively watch the styles. And yeah, like Uncle live is not going to be an easy matchup. And that doesn't mean that Alex might go out there and catch him early like you did Jamal Hill and pop them. I mean, you know what happens if Alex lands a clean shot. It's always bad news for the other guy, right? But, you know, if you're Ankylai up, again, like, you're hungry, bro. Like, this is your chance.

Like, you haven't got the recognition you deserved. You haven't got the hype around you. No, everybody's riding you off. All the betting odds are against you. That's just going to fire you up even more, right? And I don't know. What is Anka Lai's wrestling background? I know he's Dagestanian.

I haven't seen him wrestle. I think he wrestled, though, right? I think he does have a bit of a Sanbo background I think a little bit like that I mean I know he comes more from striking than he does from grappling but he's a pretty well-rounded guy yeah have you seen him wrestle in the UFC I haven't remember seeing him wrestle at all

he has a little bit not a ton but he has it's not like his bread and butter but he has you know he has done it like his one loss his one loss early on was when he got Paul Craig down and Paul Craig caught him with like a second remaining in the fight and he got tapped out with that like that was a second yo C fight or whatever.

But he's got wrestling. But he's more of like a physically imposing just like, you know, power strike or things like that. But he's a Russian. So, you know, he's kind of well-rounded guy. Yeah, fair. Okay. But yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it only makes sense if you're Anka Live again to at least put that to the test a little bit.

It might be an easy path to victory. Right. Just grab Alex, put him on the ground. You know, even if it might not be an easy path to victory. but it might slow Alex down. It might have him at least thinking about the wrestling a little bit and slow down his striking a little bit and now you can open up on the feet more.

I mean, this is just, you know, standard MMA strategy stuff. And I think if Anka Live does that, you know, it's going to, you know, he's not, Enklive isn't a big finisher is the only thing, you know, and the problem with not finishing Alex Pera is he's always a shot away. So I think that's the biggest weakness that Enkolive has here. He's not, you know, an aggressive finisher. and, you know, if you don't put Alex away, you know, you're always going to be at risk. So, yeah, we'll see if he, you know, uses some actual strategy and goes in there and, you know, tries to attack the weakness,

or if he just goes in there and tries to strike with Alex and, you know, but like to say, even stylistically, even if he just stands with him, I mean, he's still, you know, I think that's probably a losing battle for him ultimately, but it's, you know, probably a tougher matchup that, again, you know, he's more technical and, and, sharper than all these other guys he's fought on the feet, except maybe Israel. And he's also a big light heavyweight. Like, I think that also makes a difference. Like, he's a sizable light heavyweight. I know Alex is too.

Alex is a big guy, but he's a big light heavyweight. And, yeah, I don't know. There's just, you know, like, remember when we picked, when we, when we did the Israel and Alex fights, and the first time we both picked Alex and we were right, it came through. There was just something about it. The second time we had the same feeling that there's just something about it. Like, we picked Israel. We didn't really have a great excuses.

why we're just like there's just something about it i'm not i don't want to maybe i should pick it but i'm like there's just something about it right now like and again maybe i'm getting lost in the distractions and the disfined australia to corner strickland and you know it almost seems like alex kind of has his eyes he always has his eyes on the future like he's talking about john jones and some of these other things i'm just like dude there's a really really nasty russian standing right in front of you and that can be bad news because that's usually what happens the one time you start looking too far ahead The guy right in front he catches you.

So, I mean, I guess I'm going to go with Angola. I can't say all that and just pick against him. But I think there's a real danger in this fight. I think there's a real legitimate danger that Alex gets caught here. Yeah, I mean, there's absolutely danger. Man, that is a tough call, though. That's an intense call there, Damon. I didn't expect that out of you.

Listen, I can't sit here and say all those things. and just back away and said, but I'm picking Alex. I'm just going to go with the upset. I don't feel great about it. I'm not sitting there saying I'm really super confident about it, but I think Ankleyev has been grinding for this. And he's got to know this is pretty much like one or like winner done here. He can't.

He's probably not going to get, you know, he's just not the kind of guy who's going to keep getting title shots. You know what I mean? Maybe. But I just have a hard time believing the UFC is going to keep filing them back in there after what he had to do to get this one. So I think he kind of knows, like, it's do or die. Go out and get a title shot or maybe you don't get another one.

So, yeah, I'll, again, I'm lead. I'm going to pick him because I've got to pick somebody, but I'm not, you know, I'm not sitting there saying like, oh, yeah, I'm fully confident he's going to win. But I'm leaning Ancolaev, so I'll go with Ancolaev. What about you? I'll tell you why I'm going to stick with Alex. Because I think those distractions that you're talking about might catch up to them. They might even show in this fight, right?

they might, he might not perform as well as he necessarily should. The problem, again, that I just mentioned a minute ago, the problem that I see with ankle I have is just not a finisher. Like if he wins, it's probably going to be a decision. And I think that's a tough route to take against Alex. You know, again, over five rounds. Unless he, you know, goes with the wrestling route, you know, I think standing with Alex for five rounds is just way too much time.

time for Alex to land one of those fight changing shots. And it might change the fight and the fact that it hurts them. And then Alex is able to finish him later or if it's just a straight knockout. So I got to go with Alex on it. But again, I'm not as confident as I've been with Alex in the past either. There's been many fights with Alex where, you know, you're like, you're like, bro, Alex got this in the fucking bag, man. I don't have no real doubts about it.

This one, I'm not very, not totally confident in the pick. And partially because of the distraction thing, but partially because his ankle-eyed is just that good. Yeah. But again, he's just the problem is he's just not a knockout guy. He doesn't, Alex doesn't make the big mistakes on the feet where he's good. I feel like he's,

Anky-Live is going to hurt him enough where he'll be able to either finish or, you know, find a, you know, I don't know, put Alex on his ass, you know, something like that, where it's really where Ainclair can kind of run away with it, you know. Anglive kind of keeps the fights a little bit too close for my liking to beat Alex. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. And I think, and if anything, this could be the wake-up call that Alex needs, you know, maybe a little closer to what he wants.

Maybe he loses a couple more. Because when he lost, like, I know he lost a round or whatever to Kolo Round shirt, but it was almost like he gave it away. It was almost he was playing the Floyd Mayweather strategy where he's kind of like, like seeing what Khalil could do and seeing how fast he was. Once he had his measurements down, he just, you know,

kind of picked him apart and beat him. If he gets, like maybe he gets clipped and gets dropped briefly, or maybe he gets taken down a couple of times, maybe he loses a round or something. It might be the wake-up call that's like Alex, like, well, crap,

I can't play around like this anymore. And he goes out and, you know, this may be the wake-up. He wins, but it still serves like kind of the wake-up call that he needs to cut out the distractions and no more movies and no more traveling to Australia

a month before my fight, and maybe that's it. You know, depending on what his goal is in life, right? If he wants to be one of the greatest ever, I think that's going to be a necessary thing. I mean, he's already, a lot of people already got him up there as, you know, one of the greatest, you know, and it depends on how great he wants to be. Or if he's like, you know, hey, I've been fighting for a long fucking time. I won, you know, two divisions in glory, you know, titles in the UFC. Like maybe he's content with what he's done too, right?

And he's ready to jail. like you say he's 37 like he's done a shit ton he's one of top stars in the world maybe he goes hollywoods you know fuck you fc fighting or i mean there's nothing wrong with that and you know maybe that wake-up call is like okay you know maybe i still goes out and wins a decision or something and he says look uh you know i don't feel like i used to so let's go hollywood i'm a fucking star let's end all the fucking victory and let's go make some real money or there's a world where he goes out there wins and says, I want one more massive payday.

Sorry, Tom Aspinall. John Jones, where are you at? You know, like, there's a, I just say it like there's a world because that's like I said, like, you know, we talked about it before. Like Tom Aspinall is a fight to make, but you and I both know UFC loves money. Alex Prairie is, he is bank right now. So I'm not saying it should happen. I'm saying there's a world where it could happen.

Well, hey, especially if I'm collab actually does attempt some grappling. and Alex looks good defensively, right? He's able to defend it or take advantage of it in some way and show something on that front, right? He just hasn't really shown a lot of that front. Like Israel has a sign he took him down and beat him up on the ground a little bit. It's like, you know, like nobody,

we know that this is a weakness that just simply nobody has exposed for, you know, due to the favorable matchups. And again, I've got to put the asterisk behind that. Every time you say, I'm not taken away from what Alex is. done. I don't need to hear my motherfuckers, you know, talking shit about me saying that. I'm not going to take away because he fought, he has fought who they put in front of him and he has

fucked them all up. Good for him, except for Adasani the second time. You know, good for him. He has not bought a guy, you know, like a, you know, Curtis Blades type or something. You know what mean? Like he just hasn't had this type of matchup. And I don't even know if there's that type of matchup out there for him, to be honest. Like, I can't even think of anybody. that would pose that kind of, you know, deep, I don't know, that kind of game on him at this point. Not at light heavyweight. At heavyweight, yeah, but not a light heavyweight. There's really nobody in light heavyweight that kind of does that. So probably not. Yeah, and then, you know, and he's probably not, I doubt he ever goes back to middleweight, you know, where there's the

Bo Nichols and, you know, the guys come like that where that's not good for Alex, you know, but at light heavyweight, yeah, like I can't even think of anybody, again, other than Ankelaev, like that's what Ankelyb, if he's using intelligent strategy here, which I think he probably will, and that's what scares me about picking Alex, I think Enkaliah probably will use that strategy, at least at some point, it's just a matter of whether it's successful or not.

Imagine if he goes out there and stuffs a bunch of takedown, shuts down Ankeliah's wrestling, and then just brutally knocks him out, tell me there's not a world where he's like, John Jones. What I'm saying, yeah. Yeah, or if it's been, you know, somehow out wrestles and Kaleev, right? Like maybe does some counter wrestling, you know, maybe fucking lap drops them, right?

Like, you'd be like, bro, okay, let's see you do this with John Jones now, you know? And yeah, so I think that's a, there's a possibility there, but, you know, I think it's a slant possibility, right? If Alex, if Alex does that and calls out John Jones, we might actually hear a scream all the way from England of Tom Aspenall going. like, no. And rightly so, by the way, rightly so. All right. Matt, you're traveling, of course. So we're going to get out of here, obviously.

We're going to be back next week, as we always say, thank you for doing this while you're on the road. We appreciate it. What, your boy, your boy is fighting two weeks, right? Next weekend, one championship, Bangkok, Thailand, March 8th. March 8th. Okay, I think it'll be March 8th here. which it would be like 8 in the morning.

So it would be Friday night in the States. Okay. Yeah, B.P. Yeah. I think it's just like a one fight night or something. You know, it's not one of their bigger shows. But yeah, so he'll be eight in the morning. And then also I had one of my guys fight tonight in Columbus, Ohio,

Josiah Harold. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The guy with the boy and everything. And he dominated. So, you know, his first fight and what was that? a year and a half, two years since that brain surgery and everything. So like what an amazing story.

You know, the very heartwarming to see him go out there and perform well and put on a great show, great victory. And, you know, dominated a tough kid, too. You know, I think the kid was like, I want to say, nine and three or something. The kid was six foot four, you know, one of the tougher vets around regionally. And Josiah went out and dominated. I don't think he got hit at all, so, you know, good for him. And then two other friends fighting on that card, too.

And then, yeah, the next weekend, be Josh, fighting a very, very tough kid. I always forget how to say the guy's name, Anja, Abdomy, or some Chinese name, I forget. But, you know, the kid's really tough. It's going to be Josh's toughest test to date. And like I was talking about last time, Josh was my first kind of homegrown. almost completely homegrown guys. So this is very nerve-wracking for me too, right? Because, you know, you kind of go in there like, like, dude, did I teach him all the right

shit? You know, if I kept him on point, is everything that I taught him going to work? And, you know, like, oh, work for me. Is it going to work for him? And things like that. So it's going to be exciting. It's going to be a fun night. Josh is one of the greatest kids out there.

And so we're ready to get him on his route to some world championships next weekend. Yeah, and I'm happy for Josiah, because I think if people don't forget, he was supposed to fight in LFA, and he got pulled right before because he obviously had that brain ding, and so they were still whatever,

but I'm glad he got cleared, and he's back in action, and Ohio's got a very good commission, so they're not going to clear him unless he's actually, you know, able to get cleared. So glad he got cleared and got to win, because it seems like he's, he was kind of like,

it was just like, it's just a matter of time before he gets back to the UFC, but there was that health concern. Yeah, and the reason that he didn't get cleared in the LFA, It was in New York, and New York is one of the most bullshit commissions. But, you know, it just kind of added to the story, right? You know, he'd been out for however long over a year, you know, got brain surgery, you know,

and there was a life-threatening brain disorder that he had. I mean, he could have died, you know, at any moment. I mean, he was literally that bad. I mean, he's, thank God they found it, right? I mean, it was a blessing in disguise. But, you know, then after a year of grinding and working to come back, and he gets shut down to fight again. You know, the kid's spirit just stayed high the whole time, man.

It's been amazing to see him. He stayed in the gym, stayed working hard, finally gets to getting there and show his skills a little bit. He's a very, very tough guy. Again, I mean, I don't think they could have found a tougher matchup locally for him. So, you know, he went in there and dominated, and he's ready for the big show, man. And that kid's going to be, he's very special.

I think the sky's the limit for him. He stays on the past. and I don't have any doubt that he's going to be a world champion. I love it. I'm glad for him, man. And I'm not trying to sit here and just take shots, but just for people know, like, Al Jermaine Sterling can't fight in New York. Like, they won't let him fight New York because he had some medical issue.

So I don't want to sit here and just condemn the New York Commission. But that you get him because you ever hear Al Jemate talk about, like it's a sore spot for him because he wanted to fight a home in New York where he's from and he can't because the commission won't clear him for whatever reason. So I'm not trying to, you know, I'm just saying, Like there's a, there's a precedent there. It seems like New York's a little whatever. So glad his eyes back in there got to win here in Ohio.

And I think we're going to see him continue to see him. Continuous series of UFC in the very near future. I think he's got definitely going to be there. Yeah, I hope so. I actually just texted him with Sean Shelby a minute ago. And he's interested. So we're hoping to get him up in there, man. And next fight might be UFC.

And I said, wait until you guys see this kid, man. You know, I want to see him against somebody tough. Like I don't even want him to go in there. and work his way. I'm like, dude, put him in there with one of the tough guys

that need to win, you know? You know what I mean? Like, we'll take that risk and, you know, put him up with one of the top guys, you know,

and he's that good. Like, I don't have any doubts that he's going to be a world champion. I love it. I love it. Well, Matt, where can people follow along

as you got? Obviously, I'm sure you're going to be posted this week on Instagram and everything with your boy fighting this weekend at one championship.

And, of course, Friday night it'll air, I believe it'll air, It airs on, I think, One Championship 2nd has on their YouTube channel. I'm not sure if it's going to air on Amazon Prime here, but I think they air everything on their YouTube channel now, because that's where I watched the last one, which was a great card, by the way.

So if it's Friday night here in the States, it'll be on the one championship's YouTube channel. So where can people follow along? They want to see what you got going on in Thailand, fight circus, doing diaper fights, or whatever the hell you're going to be doing to fight circus. I don't know what we're going to be doing in Fight Circus. I don't know what they're going to be doing in Fight Circus.

Yeah, and I Amort. On Instagram and Twitter and The Immortal Map around on Facebook. Yeah, check it out. And I'll try to keep posting. You know, I always forget, you know, especially when I'm on trips. Like it's like, just be in the moment, man. 100%. You know, that would have been one of the greatest videos ever.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun, man. Well, we appreciate again you doing the show while you're traveling. Obviously, we wish your guy best luck next week. And I'm sure we'll get the aftermath of all that on next week's show. And as always, want to say, everyone to thank you. for tuning in. Make sure you check us out all of your favorite

podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course, over the best website in the world. MMAFighting.com for Matt Brown. I am Damon Martin. We'll see it next week for another edition

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