MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Max Holloway’s Win, Is Miocic the Biggest Threat to Jones + How Will Diaz Do Against Paul?

Episode Date: April 18, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with Matt Brown and Damon Martin discussing Max Holloway’s big win over Arnold Allen and what that means for his future at featherweight. Holloway earned a decision win to get back on track after falling to UFC featherweight champion Alexander Volkanovski in his previous outing. We’ll also talk about the news that the UFC wants to book Jon Jones against Stipe Miocic at Madison Square Garden in New York, presumably in November. If that fight gets finalized, does Miocic immediately become the biggest threat to Jones at heavyweight or is there still someone even better suited to hand Jones a defeat? We’ll also discuss the new fight announced between Jake Paul and Nate Diaz. Is Diaz biting off more than he can chew by taking on a fighter who will have a significant size advantage not to mention Paul’s experience in the boxing ring? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is Matt Brown and Matt. We are now officially only a few weeks out from your fight. We got this last weekend Max Holloway fought. Next weekend we got Curtis Blaze and Sergey Pavlovich. It never slows down.

Yeah, four weeks out for me. You know, Max put on a hell of a performance last week. I was inspiring, man, to watch him go in there and bus. Well, I love Brandon out, but, you know, the bus dumb guy up. you know so man max is just a beast bro love it so yeah i'm excited man feeling great you just got done with a hard sauna ice bath session with coleman so we're having a lot of fun man and we're starting to crack down and um put all the final puzzle pieces together and go build this masterpiece does it ever i'm curious because you've done so many fight camps and

i know every fight camp's a little different because you got deal to injuries and you know obviously you trained in Colorado, you trained in Vegas, you trained in Washington, but like, do you, do you set a routine for your training camps or do you try to like mix it up a little bit? Like, you know, I mean, like kind of varied up from camp to camp. Because obviously what you do in the gym normally is not what you do during training camp, but like do you try to vary things up or do you try to keep a routine? I guess it depends on what you mean by routine. Like most of like the routine stuff is it is routine, but it's different every time too. right like it's a different routine every time uh probably the most monotonous thing is just the food man like it's the same food all the time um i primarily eat like chicken rice and oats and protein shakes

you know like kind of the same thing over and over fortunately i have an amazing chef now that makes meals for me we're actually potentially putting together a little meal prep service which would probably be something you know more local but i have a dietitian already um kind of started this business called Immortal Diet optimization. My guy, he's working with a lot of fighters. So he's like, well, we should maybe just make this a business. So my guy, the way that he makes the food, it just tastes freaking amazing every time, man. It's just an amazing food. Like nothing I've ever had before. He's a Jamaican guy. So it's like a lot of like jerk chicken and a lot of these spices and stuff that I'm just not used to, you know what I mean?

So, and lots of vegetables and stuff. And so that's making that a lot less routine and monotonous this time. Sometimes what really gets, when you say like routine and monotony and stuff, really the first thing that comes to my mind is like I hit so many pads and hit the bag so much. And like when you go in the gym, you're putting on the same sweaty gloves that you had on this morning. and they're still all sweaty from the morning or from the night before. And that's when you just kind of like, ugh, like, what am I doing? It's funny. You mentioned your nutritionist, some of you know this.

He reached out to me, actually, because he heard our podcast talking about how I don't like coffee. And he was trying to say, he's like, I could get you to like coffee. I didn't like coffee. I could get you to like coffee. And I was like, all right, we might try this experiment out. So it's so funny you mentioned that because he reached out to me on Facebook. It was like, hey, dude, I get it. I didn't like coffee for the longest time either.

He's like, I still don't know how Matt drinks it black. I still can't quite do that. But he's like, I bet you I can get you to like coffee. I'm like, all right, let's see. Let's see if it's possible. That's chef knob, right? Yeah, yeah, that's so funny. That's so funny.

I reached out to me this past week on Facebook. I think one of the things we should do after my fight, Damon, is get you on the diet plan. All right. I'm open to it. See, the problem I have, the biggest, one, I can't cook for shit. Okay, I can't, I can't cook. for anything. I'm terrible. And two, because my schedule's so busy, it's so hard for me, like, meal prep, like doing, even that, like, general stuff. So actually having, like, an easier

access to kind of stuff like that. Like, I tried doing it for a while. There was a meal prep service here in Columbus, and I used them for, like, I don't know, a few weeks or a month. God, it's so expensive. It's just like, you know, I was dropping so much money on that and, and not getting, you know, like, for three meals or two meals or even a day, it's just like, good Lord. Like, it's way more expensive to go that route. So I was like, that's the problem. I'm not, I'm not cheap, but I mean, some of that stuff is just like ridiculously priced. Yeah, that is one of the tough things about meal prep. And when you look into the business, I mean, there's a reason why it costs so much, right? You know, everybody has to make their money. And I'm not going to claim that my service that we're

going to put together is going to be the cheapest. But you got to think about your time, too, right? like how much time do you spend um you know putting meals together um now you may not spend a lot of time putting meals together which means you're probably eating shitty food so then you got to think about your um yeah your own health right and your own longevity so either way um i think it'd be great get you on the diet plan and uh you know what would do is we'll have the nutritionist actually writing the diet for you and then not making the meals and he's going to make them fantastic where they're actually edible because, dude, I've done tons of meal prep services over my lifetime, you know, been sponsored by some.

Like Trifecta used to send them to our house with the UFC. And they're always shit, man. They're always garbage. Like, I don't even like eating them. Like, I gave away most of them. I would order a shit ton of them from trifecta. And I'd give them to my kids. And you're like, you're like, here, they'll eat anything.

We don't want this. Yeah. the kids or my training partners, you know, like all these other people. You know, so I know how it is. This guy, he knows how to put together a fucking meal, man. The only thing like I do is instead of like the worst part about any meal prep is always the rice, right? Generally in a meal prep, there's going to be rice, right? And most meal preps, like rice is a simple, easy carbohydrate that,

You know, it tastes good with most things. Most people like it, right? So it's a common standard food within meal prep service. But you can't make rice and then make it cold and then reheat it and it tastes good. Yeah, that's true. It just doesn't work. So what I have him do is he actually makes all the proteins, all the vegetables, and separates them. And then I make my own rice.

Okay. So there is, you know, that amount of work. But now I have this amazing protein that I can keep stored and or frozen. I got these amazing vegetables or different carbohydrates, sometimes like sweet potatoes or whatever, stored. And then I just put it all together in the end with a little bit of rice, some fucking fresh rice. He makes some sauce.

And the nicest thing about the coolest thing about now, he makes everything from scratch. He literally makes everything from scratch. doesn't buy, I've went to his shop many times, and he doesn't have a single, like, jar of sauce or of anything, right? Everything, they chop it, they cut it, they make it, they process it themselves, the whole ordeal. Everything in there is completely fresh. So I told him, I said, I don't want like a pre-made meal. I want each macro or each portion separate and tasting really good. So when I put it on my plate, I actually want to fucking eat it.

I can imagine when you go through a training camp and obviously you're always in a certain amount of weight cut mode, you know, getting ready for the weight cut itself, how miserable it could be or how boring it could be when you're going to the same thing every single time. And that's when I talk about a routine. Like it's got to be like a daily thing. Like you've got to get your calories in. You got to get your nutrition in. But there's only so many different things you're eating. So I can imagine like by like the eighth or ninth week at camp, you're probably like, fuck this food. Right, right, exactly.

Now, so, okay, so on the routine, the meals, that's certainly a huge routine. The mindset stuff, like the mental training, I do a routine for that. So every night before I go to bed, I'll do about 30 to 45 minutes of visualization. I kind of do some other things now, too. I do the visualization before I'm actually ready to go to sleep because what I used to find was when I would go to sleep, if I would visualize right before I go to sleep, sometimes my visualizations get so deep that I feel like I'm actually in the fight

and then I can't sleep, right? My adrenaline gets pumping, my heart's racing. So I actually do that about an hour and a half, two hours before I go to sleep. And then I do a nighttime routine because that's one of the things that I have prioritized and switched up since I read this book called Why We Sleep

by Matthew Walker. And he was been on Joe Rogan and stuff. And I started looking into sleep and there's just, you know, it's obviously it's like so important. Like everybody knows this. Everybody knows how important sleep is. You spend a third of your life sleeping. So I just started prioritizing that and, you know, made a full routine for that.

When I wake up, I don't really like a morning routine. Get up and I go grind. I'm all about that. Like you get up and just go after it. You know, I make my food, my coffee, brush my teeth. And I'm out the door and I'm ready to fucking. rock and roll man i don't want to wait i don't like doing um meditations in the morning stretching none of that shit i want to get up and go um so anyway with that said the routine comes down to diet

um and the mental stuff and then the last part of you know what you'd call a routine is going to the gym at specific times rather than when i'm out of camp it's kind of like i usually go to the gym, you know, once, maybe twice a day, uh, twice more than twice more often than once. But you kind of show up when you want, kind of leave when you want, you know, kind of do what you want, like maybe take classes, you know, learn some new things, help some other guys, different things like that. Whereas now the routine is you get up, go to the gym and you're fucking grinding. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I know you put together a good camp. I saw the schedule for, uh, Immortal martial arts. You have a busy schedule with you, you and your guys fighting. So it seems like you probably had a pretty. pretty intense camp with the guys up there and at the gym. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. You know, and that's one of the great things, man. I just got a lot of good people at my gym, man. Like, I've been really proud that it's just good people, man. It's like good vibe, good energy. Like there's not like negative people just haven't really lasted there, man. They kind of just get pushed out and weed it out or however you want to say. You know, they just kind of don't stick around long and just a lot of really good people,

man. So have a good time there. I have really good training partners. And it's kind of unique because I don't have guys that are like famous or well-known or, you know, fighting in Belator and UFC and stuff like that. Most of them are like up-and-comers, amateurs, you know, low, I guess regional pros. Some guys come from other gyms and stuff. But it actually works a lot better for me versus like when I've been in part of some of the larger camps

where you're dealing with, you know, everybody's a UFC fighter, everybody's a high-level guy. And there's, like, a lot of egos. Like, everybody's pushing really hard all the time. You don't really get to experiment and kind of play with new things. And it's also nice because a lot of these guys, I've kind of trained them almost from the ground up. So, like, they know everything that I do.

So I have to evolve and get better at everything I do. So it's been a great time, man. And we're having a good time with this camp. you know, Coleman's been up there pushing this every day. I love it. I saw Coleman was up in Cleveland working with Steve A little bit too. Yeah, yeah, he's going up to Cleveland. And I guess Stipe's not going to be fighting in June or July or whatever is supposed to be now,

which was the original plan. But yeah, he's been up there. And I mean, you know, just having Coleman around, man, he's the best hype man there is. He's great to have around and Stipe loves him. And yeah, I think Steve A is going to do great, man. Yeah, it's interesting. Obviously, we got a lot to talk about this week with Max Holloway getting a big win. Of course, the heavyweight fight coming up this week with Curtis Blades and Sergey Pavovich. And a little bit of a spoiler for future episodes. Obviously, with your fight coming up, a couple weeks leading into the fight, fight week in the week before that, we are going to have guest hosts on the show. As Matt kind of dials into your final preparation for the fight, we will have a podcast next week, kind of a fight-specific podcast for your fight, talk about your training camp, everything you've gone through work with Coleman.

and talk a little bit about Cort McGee and just kind of get dialed in for that last episode before you come back after your fight. Just kind of give everyone a heads up what's going on for next week. But this week, of course, there's a lot going on with the other fights. But I do want to mention you mentioned Stepe, we heard the news over the weekend. Steepi and John Jones not going to fight in July. They are going to headline international fight week. It looks like it's going to be Alexander Volcanowski, Yaya Rodriguez, and Brandon Marino against Alessandre Pantosia. Now we're hearing Steepa and John Jones in November, maybe Madison Square Garden.

massive card. I'm kind of bummed because, like, that, I mean, don't get me wrong. Like, I'm going to be excited to see that fight whenever it happens. But it's like, man, the waiting game sucks, especially for a fight that big. And that's such an interesting matchup, man. I actually talked to Curtis Blades before his fight this weekend. And we talked about John and Steve A. And I, John is such a, you know, John is such an enigma because he's so good.

And I've told you, I know we've said this many times in the show, I think he's the greatest mixed martial artist ever. But I loved hearing Curtis say that, like, basically, he's like, I don't, I don't think that's, that's not going to be an easy fight for John. Like, he's like, it's a 50-50 fight. Like, for people who think that he's just going to roll through Steepay, you're sadly mistaken. Like, can John win?

Absolutely. He absolutely can't win that fight. But if anyone thinks he's just going to go in a mall Steepi Meotich, like he did Cyril Gahn, he's like, you're in for a rude awakening. He's like, that's a 50-50 fight. And I was happy to hear him say that because Curtis is an incredible analyst. I know you know Curtis from your timeout and, Colorado. And, uh, listen, Steve Bay's 40 now. He's not, he's not a young guy, you know,

obviously he's a veteran. He's been around it. But I just, and I, listen, you will not hear anyone speak higher praise of John Jones than me. I've said this, you know, dozens of times how much I think of John Jones is a fighter. Uh, but I agree that like the idea that he's just going to steamroll Stephen Miocich is a little crazy to me. Can he win? Absolutely. He can win. I think he has a great chance of winning, but I also think Steve A can win. Yeah, I'm right there with you, man. But I do think it's kind of, it is a bad matchup for Stepe, though. But, you know, steep A is just a fucking magical guy, man, and just a grinder. And he can totally win this fight. But I do think it's a bad matchup for him, you know, in the long run. I think, you know,

I mean, well, first, John Jones is a bad matchup for anybody in the world. So that's true. But, you know, if you look at, I guess, some of the details, I mean, you know, like, like, like, Steppe's so good at being long and getting his jab off and his boxing. And other than the Gustafsson fight, the first one, we just never really seen that happen to John. And I think Gustafsson was longer and probably faster than Steepa. So I think, you know, I don't see that being as big of a problem for John.

And, you know, ultimately I think it's going to come down to can John wrestle Steepay. And ever since I've seen John wrestle Daniel Cormier, I'm not sure if there's anybody he can out-wrestle, you know? And that's not a knock on Steepay by any means, you know, like Stepe is amazing. But that's to be seen. So I, but yeah, I'm with you, man. I think it's a 50-50 matchup on the feet and then about 50-50 if John can wrestle him.

Because, you know, I think that's about what it comes down to is if John can wrestle him, then it's probably going to be an easy night for John or easier night at least. because on the feet, I just, I don't know what's going to happen there. I think on the feet it's a much more even fight. Steve has got incredible boxing, huge power. I still don't know what kind of power John has on the feet as a heavyweight. Like he was never a one-punch knockout guy at light heavyweight. So I think that question has to be answered.

I think Steve-A does have some advantages in the power department because we've seen what he can do at heavyweight. But again, the wrestling's really where it is. I think Steve-A is a much better, obviously Steve-e-e-es-a-much-old-gone. That goes without saying, He's a pretty good wrestler. He's wrestling at Cleveland State. He's got a good wrestling background.

But again, you mentioned it. I mean, John took down Daniel Cormier, a freaking two-time Olympian, so we're not wrong in that. I tell you what, though, not to get too far off the subject. A fight that plays out this weekend, though, I mentioned Curtis Blades. I've said this since the day John Jones was coming back as a heavyweight, and now that he's officially back. And I'm not saying, again, I'm... John Jones, again, let me keep saying it.

He is the goat. I think he's the greatest mixed martial artist of all the time. But if you're going to ask me for the hardest matchup for him right now at heavyweight, thought it was Francis. At first I thought it was Francis because that just mind-altering power he has. You know what I mean? Like just one flick of his wrist and you go out. But the wrestling always concerned me. You know who I think is that honestly who I think is the toughest matcher for John Jones right now in the UFC is Curtis Blades? Curtis Blaze wrestling is off the war. I mean, he is not going to get out-restled. He's just not. He's that good of a wrestler. Now,

can he go toe-to-to-to-to with John on the feet? That's a question. Curtis has worked a lot on the striking. We've seen it improve a lot of the last couple years. He's long and ranging. He's got a lot of power. We've seen him knock people out on the feet. But I think personally, if you're looking for the worst matchup, and even when I say, let me be clear when I say worst matchup, doesn't mean he's going to win. I'm just saying like in terms of the guy who has the best chance of beating John Jones in the UFC right now. I think it's Curtis Blades. Well, I would only argue maybe Steepa, too, would be the other worst matchup. But again, you know, we're talking worse. You're talking like, you know, this guy has a 40% chance.

This guy has a 50% chance. Like I don't have anyone over a 50% chance of beating John Jones really in the world. So, you know, but I think steep is probably a tougher matchup for John than Curtis Blades, even though I think Curtis Blades would probably pose him some problems. And not so much because John being able to take him down, but I think Curtis would be able to take him down potentially. And I think that's where, you know, we just haven't seen John on his. back, you know, we don't really know what would happen if he gets there and kind of gets stuck

there, you know, and that's where I think Curtis would probably pose him some problems. I'm not sure that Stepe would even go for the takedown on him. You know, I don't see that in his game playing necessarily, but, you know, I think Steepay would be equally as hard to take down for John as Curtis Blades would be. Yeah, I think I think it's funny. I think it's like the opposite fights. I would say Curtis would give John a hard. harder time in the wrestling because he can actually take John down. I don't know that Steve A would go for the take down. I think Steve would be more anti-wrestling against John.

And then on the feet, I think Steve-Bey's got a better chance because Steve-be's got the boxing, he's got the power, whereas Curtis is a little more unproven on the feet. And John has shown, you know, he does have a good jab. He has good kicks. He's long-range. He's still going to have that height and reach. So it's like their opposites. Like they both have a similar, as what you said, similar chance.

I still think Curtis is a slight edge. But you're right. I mean, ultimately, I agree with you in saying that, you know, is it ultimately a great chance when you say they have a 40% chance of winning because it's still John Jones and John Jones is John Jones. And the honest truth is we may never see the Curtis Blaze fight. Because I don't know if you saw on Saturday night, he tweeted out about the Madison Square Garden thing. And John said, how cool would it be to have my retirement fight against Depe? You know, in Madison Square Garden. Listen, it kind of feels like John is, you know, already kind of unlimited time. He's on borrowed time right now. Like he came back. He did what he wanted to accomplish. became a heavyweight champion. He's trying to etch his name in the record books to where he can never be touched because he ultimately is undefeated. Sorry, Matt Hamill, you don't have a win over John Jones. He's a greatest light heavyweight by a wide margin.

We all know that. And if he can go out and beat Cyril Gahn and Steve Miochich and back-to-back fights, I don't know. Like, it makes me a little sad because I think John is so good. And heavyweights, and you know this, Matt, heavy weights typically are older. Like, they tend to skew older.

Like, you know, guys who are heavyweights typically aren't. great heavy weights until they're 34, 35. You know what I mean? And that's where John is right now. So I think John could easily go for another five years. But when he said that, I'm like, man, that kind of bums me out. Like, we just got him back. And it's realistic that he could be gone after one more fights. Yeah.

And I think the only dark horse that we haven't really talked about, you only mentioned for a moment there was Sergey Pavlovich. And we don't know, or at least I don't know, maybe you've seen some fights with some wrestling out of him. but, you know, I think we're going to find out a lot this weekend, right, when he fights Curtis Blades. We're going to find out a lot about Sergei Pavlovich, and right now he's a dark horse for me. He is. Like I said, it does concern me.

His first fight he got taken down and really controlled on the ground by Alistairoverim. And Alistair Overim, while I think it has a really underrated ground game, he doesn't have near the wrestling of Curtis Blades. And that does concern me. Now, granted, it was a few years ago. You get better. That was his debut. you and he's not lost since then. But again, like I said, if you can't take him down in the first minute or whatever,

like it may not matter because Sergey has the kind of power to where if you can't put him down, he's going to put you down. So it's real. But again, all these like hypotheticals with John, like I kind of get the sense like it's going to be Steve Bay and then maybe that's it. And I get that because Steve Bay is considered the greatest UFC heavyweight of all time, maybe the greatest heavyweight. We had this debate before.

And I think we both agree we put Steve A number one. If he beat Stepe, I mean, again, does he really want to start going back through the gauntlet of heavyweights? Like, is John Jones going to get excited for Sergei Pavlovich? Is he going to get excited for Curtis Blades? I could absolutely see him fighting Stepe, beating Steepi and then peace and out. Yeah, I can see the same thing. And it's unfortunate.

I want to see him see if he can do a run at heavyweight, you know? Like, that's what, like, I think that would be the ultimate retirement if he, you know, ends up beating Stepe and then ends up breaking Steepa's record for the most title defense is a heavy way. I think that's the record that I would like to see him go for personally. But to each his own, man, whatever his journey is for him is what it is for him. And hey, listen, you know, everyone's got their own motivations. And I don't know that money is necessarily a motivating factor John anymore. He's got money.

You know, maybe that's just not what really pushes him. Seems like legacy is really what he's after right now. And I agree. Because the title defense record is attainable. I mean, it's three. It's not like it's, you know, it's not Anderson Silva's at 10. It's not getting to stick around for another five years to get that record. Like, if he beats Steve Bay, that's one.

He only needs two more to tie the record. So, you know, I think that's, I would agree. Like, that's the one I'd like to see him go for. And listen, we all know, you know, you can talk about it. But if he goes out there and beat Steve Bay, he might get that. I'd be like, wow, I'm already two and O in heavyweight. How quickly could I go to this record and just set those set to bar at four? Because listen, Mark Coleman, one of the greatest heavyweights of all time.

Randy Coutor, incredible heavyweight. You know, all the heavyweight champions that, you know, obviously get on the list of great heavyweight champions of UFC, Kane Velasquez, Junior Dos Santos, Frank Meir, going down the line. No one has ever gotten past three, ever. So if John Jones gets close to that, like, I'm like, you know what? Like, he might just stick around to do it.

Yeah, and you forgot to mention Tim Sylvia, man. Yeah. Yeah, Tim Silver is the slapfighting. Oh, boy, man. Matt, can I say that when the day, comes that you finally do hang up the gloves and that day will come we all know that day is going to happen at some point

in the future as your as your friend and podcast co-host I will absolutely try to do everything in my power to stop you from slap fighting well you don't have to do much because I'm not interested so I saw that announcement I was like oh no Tim why why are you doing this Tim

why why are you doing this? Remember when the when the slap fighting first came out you asked man do you like it I was like dude it's kind of like a car crash. I can't help but watch it. And that faded off real quick, man. I think the day that I seen the Romanian girl butt slap fighting,

I was like, I was like, all right, I don't need to see guys slap each other in the face anymore. I'll watch this. It's a novelty, right? Like, it's one of those things. You watch it on it on an Instagram for two seconds. It's not even a good novelty, though. I mean, man,

I'm really surprised at Dana, put so much into this. I mean, you know, Dana's a smart guy and, you know, obviously he sees some ROI on this or, you know, going to make it, thinks he's going to make it a big thing. But I'm not seeing any love for this sport at all.

And it's really just, it's hard to watch, man. And like, I'm a fucking savage person. Like, I watch the most fucked up shit you can imagine. But that shit, like, it just doesn't excite me at all.

I think it's weird because Dana, Dana White, you know, for all we could sit here and say about him, and I've always actually had a pretty good relationship with Dana. Like, anytime I see Dana, I'll never forget one time I was, actually, it was your fight. When you fought Eric Silva in Cincinnati, obviously I'm from Cincinnati. So I was just like hanging around town. Like after we got done with like a media thing, I went out into Hyde Park. You know where Hyde Park is. Anyone not listening. It's like a suburb like out.

It's in Cincinnati, but it's a suburb of Cincinnati. It's not like in downtown. So I escaped downtown and I went to go get some food because I used to live in Hyde Park. And I'm out there getting food and I'm standing in line waiting for food. And somebody taps me on my shoulder like, what the fuck are you doing here? And I turned around with Dana just messing with me. Like he was out there getting food too because he knew don't stay downtown and go outside. And so he's there, you know, chit chat and you know, whatever.

I've always got along with Dana. I don't, you know, do I have grievances with Dana over some of the things he does and says? Sure. But ultimately, I've always had a good relationship. But here's the thing that I don't understand. Dana might have one of the best minds for mixed martial arts. I mean, he changed the sport and he continues to revolutionize the sport on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.

I think we can all agree on that, right? And I'm not taking away credit from Lorenza Fertita and from Joe Silva and other people that have been around, there have been huge parts of the building this sport, right? But Dana is a brilliant mind when it comes to UFC. No one can deny that. If you do, you're just being a hater, right? You're just being a hater at that point. but he's always had this weird thing about wanting to branch out another business

and he tried to do that ultimate surfing competition he tried to do the the one boxing reality show do you remember that a few years ago like he did a boxing reality show and like none of these things have really panned out now again i'm not faulting him for it and slap fighting seems to be his newest thing but i'm not faulting him for having ambition to do different things i don't i don't focus 100% of my time on mbma i get it but it's just so funny like he has obviously the, you know, one of the best, well, clearly the UFC is the biggest, but he is the best of what he does in one thing, but it seems like he's struggled with other things. Like slap fighting is just kind of like the latest thing and I'm just like, I don't get it. Like, and I'm not faulting him

for wanting to branch on do different things, but this is one where I'm just like, I don't get this. Like, the surfing competition I got, because serving's been around forever and maybe people just don't want to watch it on TV, but I get it. Like, I understand the fascination with surfing. I've been to Hawaii. I know how people love surfing. Slap fighting, though, I'm like, I don't understand this. I don't get the novelty in this. get it and you know it's tough always anytime you know you got to commend dana for having the balls like anytime you bring in something totally new like slap fighting or um the boxing league that he was trying to do like those are completely innovative ideas right those aren't things like you're

not like you're trying to reinvent the wheel right that's a tough thing to do in business so you got to commend them for having the balls to do that but um you know nine out of 10 times trying to reinvent at the wheel, you end up failing, right? So, you know, again, I commend them for trying to do it. But just the slap fighting, just, you know, to me, that's just not it, man. That's just not the way. And I just find it hard to watch, you know, that's all it comes down to, right? It's just hard to watch, man.

Like, like, why are these people doing this to themselves? Like, it reminds me of world's deadliest catch, you know? Like, there's people out on the boat. Like, I just feel bad for them. Like, dude, you probably just got out of jail last month. and you're addicted to crack or something. And you're out there doing this so you can get your meth for the month or something. Like you don't want to be doing this.

You know, I just feel bad for the people. And it's the same with the slot fighting. Like what's motivating you to do this? You know, there's, I don't think the pace that high. And there's not like any prestige to it. You know, it's just like people on their last leg trying to, I don't know, pay their court fines or something. It feels like. Yeah, it's so funny.

people like to bag on Bare Knuckle Fighting, which I actually really like BKFC. Like I've really enjoyed their shows. They have a big show coming up in a couple of weeks with Luke Rockhold, Mike Perry, and that's next weekend, actually. Mike Perry, Chad Mendez, Eddie Alvarez. They get good production. I've interviewed Dave Feldman, the president, many, many times.

And I like Bear Knuckle. People say it's brutal, but it's brutal because of the cuts. It's not because people are taking extra brain damage or it's just because the cuts. It's not because, and they did a study a couple years ago where they said, like the concussion rate in bare knuckles actually lower than mixed martial arts and boxing, it's the handbrakes and the, you know, the contusions, the cuts. Like that's ultimately, and I get it. Like we don't, I won't start talking about damage again.

We always talk about damage, like the cuts on the face, somehow it equates the damage, which is ridiculous. But that's what people freak out about bare knuckle. It's not that bare knuckles more dangerous. It's just because people get cut up more often. And so it looks worse. It's not actually worse. It just looks worse because cuts and things like that.

But I actually enjoy BKFC. I don't think it's too brutal. And if you don't like it, that's fine. But like that I get slap fighting. I don't. I just don't understand the novelty and just standing there letting anyone slap the piss out of you for, you know, any amount of money. I'm sorry.

Like I just, dude, I just, I don't have it in me. Like, and it's just like watching dudes get absolutely blasted and it just falling backwards on the ground. I'm just like, yeah, this ain't for me. Like this is, I don't know. Like I said, I've seen, I've seen plenty of. mismatches in MMA and I'm like, man, this is not going to go well. And it doesn't go well.

But at least the other guy was able to defend himself. Like for a little bit, he was able to defend himself until he got knocked out or got caught to submission or whatever. That just standing there and let someone hit you. That never, that just doesn't, that doesn't sit with me. No, that's exactly right, man. And the, the, the bare knuckles actually, you know, it's pretty legit, man. They did it.

On top of that, say, they did studies also would wear an headgear, you know, as bad for you. I've heard that. Yeah. I actually heard that. Yeah. I believe that's why they removed it from the Olympics, in amateur boxing,

right? Like is, you know, because it's not the blunt impact that affects you as much as the resonance. So the more padding you have in between, the more resonance. So, you know,

just like football players, that's why they get CT so much and concussions and stuff. Like there's so much resonance with all that padding. So, yeah, the bare knuckles is actually totally safe. I mean, they break their,

hands more than they do their faces. You know, like you said, they just get lacerations and lots of stitches and it looks really bad, you know, but, but it's not like any more dangerous by any means. And I would love to see bare knuckle MMA. I mean, maybe I'm going to have to start my own promotion one day. Masvidal did it for like one event. And then he kind of went back to dead other things. And I thought it was interesting. He had a, I think he had like one event for bare knuckle MMA. But yeah, it would be interesting. Dude, and I mean this is a compliment. Like I like, obviously you're a UFC fight, you've been there, but like,

if I think of one dude who would have been built for Bear Knuckles, it's Matt Brown. Could you imagine? Although, although Bear Knuckle MMA is better because if you give Matt Brown

Bear Knuckles and elbows, oh boy, that's a lot of fun. Now you're talking. Now you're talking. Yeah, Bear Knuckle actually BKFC, they made me an offer.

It just wasn't enough for me. I mean, it was a good offer, solid. Like I talked to Dave for a little bit. He's a cool guy. You know, he certainly knows what he's doing,

but, you know, it didn't, It didn't overly excite me either, you know, just the sport itself in general. Yeah. So was this when you were like in free agency or was it more easily or? I don't remember when it was. I've never been in free agency actually.

Like I've, yeah, I was going to say. I didn't think you were. Yeah. I've signed with the UFC every single time before my contract's up. They've always, you know, treat me pretty well. It gave me good contracts. you know what they always do is they wait until I'm coming off a loss you know

like unfortunately I haven't had it's been a while since I've had a long win streak and they always get me right after a loss they're like hey we're going to give you a raise and this is what we're going to give you and I'm like all right I'll take it when you're coming off a loss as like what can you even say you know yeah I mean like I said everyone's got their own way about it

and I get it and like I said BKFC seems like it's a good opportunity for some people I talked to Chad Mendez and Chad said, he's making far more for his fight with Eddie Alvarez than he ever did for any one fighting the UFC, like even when he fought Aldo for the title. Like, nothing close to that. And I think, I think Rockhold said he's making as much now as he did in the old days when Lorenzo was around and they would give him those backroom bonuses of like, you know, a lot of money. Like not now where you might get a couple grand.

Like he'd give him like a big, you know, a bag of money. And he's like, that's back to where I'm at now to where I am in BKFC. And I'm like, good for you. If you're enjoying it and you're. and you're having fun and you're making money. Like, here's the thing I say this all the time. We need PFL.

We need Bellator. We need BKFC. We need options because that's only how pay is going to get better for everybody. You know what I mean? If there's an option, if somebody can say, hey, like Shane Burgos just had a loss this past weekend in his PFL debut,

but he saw the opportunity. PFL offered him a bag of money and said, hey, come over here and also have the opportunity to fight for a million dollars. And it was more than the UFC could pay him. So he went. And that we need that. We need those organizations around because if it's only one, then they control the market. Right now, the UFC, while they are still the biggest and they absolutely are still the biggest,

there is a market where a guy can go, or like an Anthony Pettis, who is a star. We all know Anthony Pettis is a star. He could have probably gone back to the UFC, but he said, you know, I'm going to go to PFL. They're going to pay me a boatload of money, and I have a chance to win a million dollars, and I also have the freedom to do the boxing thing and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, we need that in this sport. Yeah, more the merrier. Yeah, I agree.

so yeah so no BKFC for Matt though that's uh no like I said it doesn't like overly excite me anyway like I'm I've never been too excited to box like everybody was when I was talking about boxing it I think I just tweeted the other day like I was like can we do an influencer moitai fight like can I fight one of these fucking dork influencers in a moitai fight and you know still get paid the same which I'm sure it wouldn't but I'm like then I'd be all about it like if I can elbow you in the face and clinch you and knee you and sweep you and shit i'm fucking down man but you will put on some like 10 or 12 ounce boxing gloves and limit my weapons that i've been honing for all

these years like it's fucking stupid man like i mean i do it for the paycheck right but you know i'm not a boxer yeah it's funny i actually saw i interviewed chatari sita tong from your one championship they're having their debut here in a couple weeks here in the united states a week before your fight and I was talking to him. I was like, dude, I was never, like, I was never a big Muay Thai guy. Like, I just, I tried to watch lion fights back in the day, and it was okay. I just couldn't get into it. But then when they started introducing four ounce glove Muay Thai in one championship,

I was like, hell yeah. Now this I can get behind. Like, that was fun to watch four ounce glove boy tie. I was like, now I'm, now I'm on board. I'm surprised that's the thing they got you on board with. Because, I mean, first, you got to come in Chatri, man, and one FC, what they're doing. They've brought Muay. they've probably amplified the mainstream presence of Muay Thai 10 times since they have started doing it in one FC.

And I mean, guys like Liam Harrison and Rod Tang and, you know, these guys are at least in the combat sports world. They're like they're kind of household names now, right? Like these guys that you probably wouldn't even have heard of them. If it, you know, when Rod Tang, he was fighting in the stadiums, like no one knew who he was in the States, you know, or Liam Harrison, you know. I mean, and there's a few other, John Haggerty and, you know, but I can sit here and have this conversation with you talking about these guys and you know exactly who I'm talking about five years ago. If I mentioned Liam Harrison or Rod Tank, you would have no idea who I was talking about. None whatsoever. I'm not going to lie to you. I have absolutely no idea who they are. And now, now I do. Now I know who they are. Thanks to one championship. And also, don't forget, some couple of these guys are doing bare knuckle too now. A couple of Muay Thai legends

Do him bare knuckles? Have they actually done it? I keep seeing them post about doing it, but I haven't seen them post about doing it, but I haven't seen them actually do it. They both fought with the two guys fought once each, and then now they're supposed to fight each other. Oh, God, why am I not thinking the names here? You put me on the spot here telling me knowing names,

and now I can't remember. Hold on here. Where's it at? BKSC, hold on, pull up the old email here. Let's see. Where are we at? I know that there are, who are the two? know one of you know because we talked about it before

and I can't remember who it was why am I just drawing a complete blank on here God is one of the most famous Muay Thai guys of all time why am I not remembering the name I know San Chai and Boo cow were talking about it Yeah that's the one yeah they both did it that's that's who it is San Chia boo that's who it is bull cow that's what it is yeah They both did it they both fought once

They both fought once and they won and now they're supposed to fight each other This year and bare knuckle boxing Bear knuckle yeah BKFC Oh, how did I not see this? Yeah, yeah, they're supposed to fight this year sometime. I don't know when, but I know they're supposed to fight. Yeah, I know that they were talking about, but like, you know, their friends. Like, I figured that was like just kind of a joke, you know?

No, as far as I mean, who knows? I haven't seen an official announcement about it, but they were talking about doing it this year. So yeah. Well, that's pretty cool. You know, even guys like that, man, like Buchanan, San Chai, who, you know, aren't in one FC, but it just brings them more prominent as too. A guy like San Chai, he fucking does. deserves it, man. Or Bill O'Ral also. I mean, God, dude, San Chai's got like 400 fights and he's probably the, he might be the greatest boy type fighter we've ever seen. I still rank Samar above him, but, you know, he's got to be, you know, he's in the top like two or three ever. Like, you don't have 400 fights. I mean, if you watch him fight these foreigners, I mean, he just makes jokes out of him. He looks like, you know, he fights guys out of his weight class, two, three weight classes bigger. He makes him.

look like they've never even thought before. And these are like really good professionals. So, you know, these guys deserve, I mean, they should be as popular as Connor McGregor, you know. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Moytai just doesn't catch on like that. Yeah, it's weird. And it's huge. Obviously, it's huge in certain parts of the world, but it's just never called on. And it's weird because while soccer, football to the rest of the world, soccer, like, has, you know, is the most popular global sport.

And it's definitely gotten more popular here in the States. Like, it seems like while boxing is huge and things like that, like it seems like the United States is always like the golden jewel, so to speak, of combat sports, like you want to conquer here. Like you can be a huge star in the UK, but to be a real big star, you got to come do it in the U.S. Like I remember when Anthony Joshua was coming up and they're like, yeah, he's Anthony Joshua, he sells out Wimbly Stadium, blah, blah, blah.

Like, yeah, but bring him over the United States. Like, how's he going to do over here? Like, that's the metric. Tyson Fury is a legitimate star over here. Like he's well known regardless of being from England or whatever. The United States is always the crown jewel. And Muay Thai and kickboxing have just never found a home here. Like they've never, they've tried.

Glory's done events here. I think I went to a K1 event in Vegas back of the day. You know, Lions fights, like they just, it's just, they're just, it's for, just for whatever reason, people are into boxing and MMA here and that's it. Like they don't, they're, and, you know, I mean, obviously to a certain extent, Like you could group in wrestling has an audience obviously here in colleges and into a certain extent at Olympic level. And grappling, I think, has a certain attraction to a certain level here with Jiu-Jitsu.

But Muay kickboxing, it's been tried dozens of times and it just never seems to work here. Yeah. And I do think there's some people out there doing some good things trying to bring it up. And there's still some good organizations out there. And so, you know, I don't think it's dead yet. Like it still has that chance. But it's going to take a. a lot of great infrastructure, a lot of money.

And it needs like a Dana White. Like I wish Dana White would, instead of investing in power slap, like he should invest in Muay Thai promotion. Right. Like that has the potential to be big. And it does, you don't have to call it moitai, you know, just you can call it whatever you want, you know. But again, one FC, you know, they're making their way over to the States.

And, you know, they have a legitimate shot of turn it into something big over here. You know, I think one FC in general has a lot of room to grow in the States. They're obviously big over in Asia already. And if they get big here, then they're going to bring Muay Thai with it. And again, I commend Chhatri Sitchatang for all the things that he's doing to bring up the Muay Thai. And like you said, man, if he builds it in the States, it's going to be, it's going to take off and it's going to be ginormous. Well, here's what one is doing well. and I complimented Chasher on this when we spoke.

They're mixing it in with MMA fights. Like their cart coming up in Colorado's headlined by Demetrius Johnson and Adriano Marais. Everyone knows Demetrius, you know, boom, you got there. But they also have a, they have a Muay fight as the co-main. They have a grappling matcher on there. And then they obviously have other MMA fights. Like that's what it was. It was with me. That's what it was.

I watched Lion Fight's events and I just really didn't get into it. But then I saw, I'll never forget. I watched Joe Nattawut fighting four ounce gloves in Muay. as part of a one championship event. It was just one of like, you know, eight fights or six fights or whatever on the main card. And dude just flattened somebody with the four-ounce gloves. Oh, my God, that was fun to watch. And then we moved right into an MMA fight.

I think that might be the key. Now, we'll find out once one championship comes here and they start doing more events. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training

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But if you say, hey, we got Demetre's Johnson here, but we also got Rod Teng. fighting in the co-main event. Now watch how badass Rotang is. I think that's the way you're going to draw people in. Yeah, that's a smart way to do it. Being that they use the same cage and they're in four-ounce gloves and all that, it kind of feels like you're watching it in May fight. They're just not taking each other down. Yeah, you want to talk about some vicious kickers and freaking Muay Thai. Holy crap, dude. The way they, the way they rattle off kicks in Muay sometimes, it hurts me. Like when I see, and Rodtang's a little dude. He ain't, it's not like he's a heavyweight Muay guy. He's a little guy, but my God, they crack off.

some kicks in that sport. And man, speaking of, you know, Edson Barbosa, he's the only guy that kicks like that in MMA that I've seen,

man. I mean, some of the guys got good leg kicks like Justin Gigi and, you know, some guys like Wonderboy has wild kicks all around. I feel like my,

I have some pretty good kicks myself, I like to think. But boy, Edson Barbosa, he does it straight Muay style. And when he throws a kick every single time, you're like,

oh, is that it? Is that the one that's going to end this fight? He just, the way he throws him, like, he's stopped, like, three opponents with leg kicks, like, and not, like, not the old school, like, calf kicks, which everyone talks about calf kicks these days. He just does the old school leg. And he just, uh, I mean, he would just destroy people.

You know, I mean, like, I said it last night privately to some people after he won that huge knee knockout over, uh, over Corantillo, over Billy Corantillo. I said, all right, at since of a certain age, you know, he's like 37. He's a veteran. I think we can all probably agree he's probably not going to be a champion. Like it's probably not there for him. He's had too many, you know,

and in that featherweight division, probably not going to happen for him. I don't want to write anybody off, but it seems like it's not in the cards for him to be a UFC champion. And that's okay, because not everyone's going to be a UFC champion. Put him in there with nothing but strikers.

I want to see this dude go out there and style. I understand it's MMA and I understand takedowns are part of it. I don't want to take that away. But, dude, I want to see more of that because watching him do that last night, I jumped out of my chair. I was like, oh my God, that was class against a Barbosa.

Yeah, it's nasty, right? I actually, he's one of those guys men, like the way he looked last night. Like, he could surprise us all and come back and be at least fighting for the title if not winning the title. Like, that guy, he is something special, I think. Talk about writing people off. People try to write off Max Holloway because he lost Alexander Volcanowski three times. And I said to the world, y'all crazy. Okay.

Yes, he lost Alexander Volcanov. Guess what? Alexander Volcanowski is one of the best fighters on the planet right now. Maybe I put him number two pound for pound behind Islam. Unbelievable fighter. There is no shame in losing to that guy 10 times. That's just how good Alexander Volcanovsky is. Now, Arnold Allen had a strong showing at moments, but overall I thought Max won the fight. I had him scored either four rounds to one or three rounds to two.

Was no controversy. I thought Max definitely won the fight. That fury at the end where he knocked him down. I was like, oh, man, this is, I was like, who's, like, we are so quick to jump off of people off a loss. Like, I understand we're all reactionary in this sport, and it's all about, you know, you're only as good as your last fight. I get all that mentality. But I also hate it because he had one loss to the best featherweight in the world and suddenly Max Hollowies on the downward slide. He's 31.

Like, yeah, he's been around forever. He's been fighting since he's 16. I understand he has probably more wear and tear than the average 31 year old. Like, I think they, I think Shoka was like 36 or whatever. I was like, are we sure Shogun's actually 36? I was like, I think he's more like 56. But like, I understand Max has been around. He has more wear and tear on his body.

But dude, he's a monster and he proved it again last night. Like, you don't count that guy out. Like, yeah, there will day, a day will come when maybe he will slow down. But losing that, Alexander Volcanowski is not proof to me that Max Holloway is slowing down. And if he didn't prove it last night, I don't know what would because the way that he looked last night was absolutely phenomenal, man. I thought you wrote that article said vintage Max Holloway and that I thought that put it very well.

But I would even add that it was a polished version of his vintage. Because, man, he just looked so sharp through and through. And I thought Arnold Allen fought even better than I expected him to. I thought that, you know, Max would eventually start getting his rhythm by the third, fourth round and it would kind of look like the Calvin guitar fight. But he never let Max get into a full rhythm. And he kept pushing and pushing. And he worked his ass off for that win. And I almost wanted to give him the win just because he worked so hard for it. He wanted it so bad and he tried so hard. But Max was just a step ahead the whole time. And, you know, Max stood in there and traded with him when it

was time to trade. He stayed out when it was time to stay out. You know, he just set the rhythm of the fight, the pace of the fight, and he just looked fantastic, man. Nothing but good things to say about Max Holloway. And, you know, and just what a great guy, too, man. Like, you know, I've hung out with him a few times. He's just a phenomenal person and just looked absolutely fantastic.

And I can see him come back and beating anybody, man. Like you said, losing to Alexander Volcanowski, there's no shame. to that. Like, Volcanowski is just that fucking good. That's what that should say. Not that Max was on a slide is that vocally. It's that vocally is that fucking good. Yeah, exactly. That's what drives me crazy. It's like

we talked about Robert Whitaker before. It's like, Robert Whitaker is the number two middleweight in the sport, like, in my opinion. Like, he is the second best guy. He just happens to have a motherfucker in front of him in Israel, Adasania. Like, that's just the nature of the beast. Like, you know, and Whitaker's proven it. He's beating every other middleweight he's fought. Like, he's beating everybody.

And I think that's going to be Max. Like, yeah, Max may have a bit of a roadblock with Alexander Volcanowski, although again, their second fight. I thought Max won. Like, that's not a knock on Alex. Like, I thought Max won their second fight. Now, again, the third fight, there was no doubt. That was a pretty much a shutout for Volcanowski.

But who's to say, you know, who's to say? Like, we just saw, you know, Israel had four fights. He got it done against Pereira. I tweeted last night, Matt, and I believed this. I said, it's Alexander Volcanowski. It's Max Hollow and it's everybody else. Like, that's the featherweight division to me. Yeah, it's unfortunate.

everybody else because they got two of the best ever right there at the top. And, you know, it's unfortunate for Max that he's got probably the best ever right there in front of him, you know? But yeah, dude, I mean, I'm excited. Arnold Allen's still a young guy too. That's the one thing we got to remember because that guy, if he cleans a few things up, I think he can come back and be, he could be the champion at some point. He's got a lot of cleaning up to do. He's got some polishing to do. He needs to refine some things. But he looked

phenomenal. I thought also, I thought he looked even better than I expect him to. I thought Max just threw him off a lot, especially with the stance switches. He was just able to set the pace where Arnold just couldn't keep up what was

working. Like every now and it would work for him, like some of those flurries and the hard core come forward pressure. And he just couldn't keep that up, which I think Marab is the only guy who can keep that up. But there's very few they can. But I've seen a lot of flashes of brilliance in Arnold Allen where he's going to be a top contender for a long time.

And he's got a good team around him where he can go clean some things up and really make another run for it, I think. It kind of reminds me a little about Yaya Rodriguez. Like Yaya had that loss to Frankie, and that was a bad when he got taken down and beating up on the ground. then he had that battle with Max, and it was a lot closer than people thought it was going to be.

Like, people thought Max was just going to outclass him, and Yair made it a tough fight. Like, yes, Max definitely won by Yair, and then Yayair's come back, and now he's an interim champion. Now, do I pick Yayair to beat Volkanowski? No, I don't think anybody beats Volkanowski right now. But sometimes these losses are the way you get better. Like, that's the fight that you need to get you to clear. The few mistakes in your game, the things that you need to clean up, you clean up, and you come back better, and I think that's what Arnold Allen is going to take away from this fight.

I don't think this is a huge step back. He lost to a better fighter that night, and Max Holloway is just a bad matchup for a lot of people. But that just means he can come back better, you know? And I think that's just the nature of the sport. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And a lot, you know, he was undefeated, right? So all the things that had worked against everyone else suddenly didn't work against Max Holloway.

So, you know, he wasn't trying to fix what wasn't broken, but now it's broken. and he knows, you know, he, you know, there is more that he needs to do to get to the top. And I think, you know, speaking of Yair and Volk, that is going to be a fucking fight, man. Because the other thing, too, is, the Yair is gigantic. Yes. And Volk is short. Like, that's going to be a, I think it's going to be a way tougher fight for Volkanowski. than maybe anyone else.

Like I actually, I'm gonna have to watch both of them fight a few more times. Like I might take Yai'er for that fight. Like Yairir, just stylistically, I think it's gonna cause vocal a lot more problems.

Well, I mean, I don't know. I think he's gonna cause him a lot of fucking problems, man. What I like about Yair is his creativity. You know, his creativity is so good in there. Like he's so easy.

a lot of ways, like, I think obviously it's different the way he does it, but like, inventive in the way that, like, I love watching Edson Barbosify when Edson throws the spinning kicks, the wheel kicks, and the knees out of nowhere. You know, I will throw backwards elbows and spinning elbows and upward elbows like he caught the Korean zombie with, and he's very creative in there. He's big. He's long. He's strong.

Again, and I just, like I said, I pick Alexander Volcanowski because I just can't pick him to be, I can't pick him to lose anybody right now. Like, I just think Volcanoxki's on another level when it comes to featherweight. I would pick him to beat everyone, by the way, right now. Now, maybe there will come a day when I'm wrong, and maybe I Ayers the guy to do it. But I can't pick against Volcanowski, but I agree. Yair is very great.

And also, what we saw in the fight with Emmett, Yaird trusted his power, man. He went after Emmett and just like, he's through it. And Emmett hits like a truck, dude. That's one guy. You got to be careful of with Emmett, because Emmett hit you with one right hand and you're going to be face first on the canvas.

Yair went in there and said, you know what, I'm going to match my power with your power. we're going to see who's going to go down. And, I was like, damn. I was like, that was a bit of an eye-opening performance because I thought, I thought Yai would out finesse him.

I didn't think he would go in there and just trade. And he did. And he beat him. I was like, oh my God, that was a jaw-dropping performance from Y'Ire. No, that's it.

And what I've seen in that fight also was, we all know that Yajir has been creative and has done, you know, his crazy spinning moves and, you know, the crazy up elbow versus zombie.

We all knew that he was capable of those things. And I think he's relied on those for a long time. And they've gotten them very far. But when he fought Emmett, he actually looked very sharp and used a lot of fundamental basic tools too. And I tell that to all my fighters coming up. You know, I got a couple guys particularly, they throw a lot of spinning stuff.

And I tell them, look, you have to know the rules to break them. And I feel like, yeah, year was breaking all the rules, getting away with it. And then he lost a couple times and kind of went back to his fundamentals. And now he's playing the rules very well. So when you're playing the rules and then you start breaking them,

that can cause a guy a lot of problems. And so with all that said, and then his athleticism, his speed, his height and his power, I might end up taking him over Volcanavsky. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. I'm not taking that pick right now, but I might take that.

Yeah. Talk about high level, Matt. You know, we talk about high level fights. I mean, that didn't get much more high level than another fight announcements that came out this week.

I know you were looking forward to probably the fight of the year. Jake Paul and Nate Diaz in a boxing match. That's as high level boxing as you're going to get. Yeah. I'm fucking stoked out of them. I'm getting a bono right now.

I'm joking, obviously. You know what? Listen, here's the thing. I said it when it got announced, dude, I'm so happy for Nate. Nate took a chance on himself,

risked it, you know, leaving the UFC. There's a bit of comfort there. Nate was a star. I'm sure he was getting paid well. There was always other things he could have been doing in the UFC and making money, whatever,

but he took this chance to bet on himself. He's now a co-promoter with Jake Paul. Here's the one thing I'll say about this. And I know we talked about this after the Tommy Fury fight. We were both kind of praising Tommy Fury. And we both agreed that it wasn't done for Jake Paul, just he lost one fight. But the fact that he went to Nate Diaz and not back to the Tommy Fury fight, I still, I'll say it 100%.

I still like Jake Paul. I like what Jake Paul speaks about. I am all for Jake Paul finding success in any combat sport that he's doing. But the fact that he, and I don't know the behind the scenes negotiations, Matt. I don't know if maybe they tried to get the Tommy Fury rematch. Maybe Tommy's like, I want to take some time off of my family. I don't want to fight in August. I don't know.

I'm just looking at the surface level. The fact that he went back to Nate Diaz and that's the fight he's got in August, just says to me, Jake is going to be an influencer boxer. and that's all. And that's okay. I'm not knocking him for that. I hope he fights every former MMA fighter or UFC fighter ever. I hope he fights Diaz,

and I hope after this one he fights, you know, whoever, I don't care, whatever. But I think we can stop. Not that anyone, not, I know you weren't. I know no one was like, oh my God, Jake Paul, like, you know, he's going to be a champion one day, all that kind of stuff. I always said slow down on that. But Jake always talked about that. I'm going to be a champion.

I'm going to beat Canelo. And again, we all kind of shook our heads. and laughter, that kind of stuff. But at this point, dude, lean into the influencer thing. It's okay. Fight Nate Diaz, fight KSI, fight, you know, whatever. But that's who you are. And to me, that's who he is.

And I'm not, that's not a knock on him. I'm actually saying good for you. Like him and Nate are probably going to get paid a bunch of money. It's on DeZone. They got a good pay-per-view partner. Everyone's going to be watching except me. I'm actually going to be in a concert that night. So I'm actually not going to watch the fight live when it happens.

but yeah like I don't know like am I wrong in thinking like I understand like yeah he can move but like come on at this point like he had a real boxer in Tommy Fury quote unquote and I say that because Tommy wasn't exactly the most experienced guy in the world but he fought Tommy Fury he lost he went back to Nate Diaz this is what it is like this is who Jake Paul is I'm not faulting him for it I'm just saying like this is who Jake Paul's going to be yeah and um you know it's an interesting match. Like you said, good for Nate, man. You know, he got a big payday. It's certainly going to be a big payday for him. But Damon, did you feel like I did? Like, when I seen the announcement, I wasn't shocked. I wasn't surprised. I wasn't excited. I wasn't

anything. I was like, okay, cool. I was, here's the two things. I was a little, I was a little surprised in the fact that it wasn't the Tommy rematch because I thought he was going to run it back. Like, I thought he really wanted that rematch. And I don't fault him for moving Nate Diaz because no offense to Tommy Fury, this is a bigger fight. Nate's a bigger star, right? Like, Jake has been the A side in every fight he's had, right? Like, he's been the bigger star. Like, I love Tyron Woodley. Tyrone Woodley was never a massive star. He's a name, absolutely a name, former UFC champion, all those kind of things. But Tyron was never like the guy who sold 800,000 pay-per-views just because he was fighting, right?

Ben Ascran, same kind of thing. And obviously Tommy Fury was famous because of his reality show and his last name. It wasn't like people were clamoring to spend $50 to watch Tommy Fury. This time Jake actually has a legitimate A side against him, right? Like Nate Diaz is a bigger star than anyone he's ever fought. So now it's like two legitimate A sides fight each other. And, you know, good for them. But that's, and so again, he can still run it back with Tommy down the road.

I'm not saying he won't. But I'm saying the fact that he had that rematch clause put into his contract, he lost and then he was banging the drum for like 24 hours gotta run it back gotta run it back got to run it back and I don't know the behind the scenes

I don't know what happened I don't know if maybe Tommy just didn't want to fight I don't know that but the fact that this is in August so it's several months away tells me that this was just a bigger opportunity and he's right it is bigger than Tommy Fury

and it's also no offense to Nate Diaz it's a less risky fight Nate Diaz is a lightweight this is a 185 pound fight the risk is much lower. It's a much lower risk fighting Nate Diaz to fight Tommy Fury. Because if he loses to Tommy Fury again,

Jake still doesn't go away. But Jake's chances of ever getting a big boxing, like an actual boxing match, how pretty much done at that point. Tommy Fury is not the gold standard of boxing. You know what I mean? You lose to him twice. You are now only going to be the influencer guy, right?

Yeah. But Nate Diaz is a... Nate Diaz is an easier fight than Tommy running it back. It's more money probably because, again, Tommy's not really a star. Less risk. But again, to me, the book is written now. And I understand he's a young guy, 26 or whatever. But yeah, he didn't, he wanted this fight with Nate Diaz.

Cudos to him. But this is who he is. He's going to be the guy. He's going to fight Nate Diaz. Maybe he'll fight KSI and make a lot of... money and good for him. Maybe he'll fight some other random UFC person who gets released or leaves the UFC. We'll fight Luke Rockhold

after he does BKFC or something like that. I'm cool with all that. But you are, this is who he is, is all I'm saying. Like, this is who he is. This is who Jake Paul's going to be. Yeah, can we just see them fight in MMA, Nate and and Jake's, it's part of PFL now, right?

Yeah, he is. Yeah, no matter who wins, like, let's have a rematching in May. Do you, uh, do you, uh, you give Nate a great chance in this fight? You know, it's hard, man. I mean, he has good boxing, but he's very hitable, and he's so much smaller than Jake.

And Jake does have a good right hand. That's how he's been knocking people out. And as a hitable Southpaw, that's a bad for Nate. That's about all I can say. You know, I'm going to pick Jake Paul to win this fight. So, um,

but, you know, the big thing is that Nate has going for him is the cardio, right? The same in MMA, right? When he fights guys in May, that cardio,

the advantage is absolutely huge. So if he can survive, uh, four or five rounds or three or four rounds is an eight round fight, I think. So if he can just survive a few and just start wearing them out, that's where his best chance is. But yeah,

I'm, I think everybody's going to be hard pressed to pick Nate for this fight. Yeah, I mean, listen, he's got a lot of disadvantage. He's giving up, you know, he's a lightweight. I mean, yes, I know Nate fought at Welterweight, but Nate was not even a natural

welterweight. Like, he just wasn't. Like, I know. Now he's going up another 15 pounds against the guy who's cutting weight to get to 185. You know, Jake is bigger than 185. He's cutting down to 185. He's obviously going to have more power.

Do I agree in the cardio? Yeah, Jake's had some issues with his cardio. We've seen him kind of fade a little bit in later fights, later in fights. But, yeah, I mean, this is, I said this after he beat Anderson Silva. I said, I think he'd be a five-to-one favorite. over Nate. And obviously the odds are a lot closer. I think they're like two to one or three to one now, but he's still a big favorite. And I love Nate, man. I hope Nate gets paid a boatload of money for this. I hope he walks away with eight figures and all that kind of stuff. But

realistically, I don't think this is a great match of Nate's taking a lot of damage over the years. You know, we can't deny that. He's got a lot of, there's a lot of miles on those tires. You know, one good right hand and that could be it. And listen, that's okay. I hope he gets paid a billion dollars for it. But by bigger point, am I wrong in thinking this is who Jake is, though? Like, Jake's going to fight the Nate Diaz's the world. He's going to fight Nate. He's going to fight KSI.

He's maybe going to fight Tommy Fury at some point down the road. He's going to fight. I don't know who else these influencers are. I don't pay attention to influencer boxing that much unless Jake Paul's fighting or Logapal, I guess. This is who Jake is. And I'm fine with that. But I think at this point, we need to just be realistic about it. Like, this is who Jake Paul is.

Yeah, he certainly is right now. And, you know, who knows? You know, I mean, you know, maybe he's, could get some more experience and start actually, you know, being a real boxer, you know, maybe get three or four fights and then go fight Tommy again. And, you know, we'll see where that goes. I mean, I have no idea, you know, but good for him, you know, cash it in while he can, right? Like he's definitely striking while the iron's hot.

And, you know, like you said, they're going to make a lot of fucking money, man. Like, you know, unfortunately, I'll probably end up watching the fight. When's the date on it? August 5th. Yes, I have no idea what I'm doing August 5th. but it's not going to be my priority to watch the fight, but most likely, you know, that's a lot of time to hype it up.

So most likely everybody I know is going to be watching the fight or probably get invited to some fucking party or something. And everybody's going to be like, oh, you won't you fight Jake Paul and, you know, all this shit? And, you know, so probably end up watching the damn fight. But in the meantime, I can really care less, you know. I hope Nate can go out there and beat him. But, you know, bro, you put,

giving up a lot of fucking weight, you know. Maybe that's time for Nate to balk up, you know, maybe take some juice, man, and balk up and get close to that weight. But, you know, it's just an uphill battle for him. Yeah, it's just like I said, and we said this after the Anderson Silva fight when he called out, Nate, and we said that's almost like a step down, a step back for Jake because Anderson is a legit middleweight,

and Anderson is a legitimately good boxer. Now, I think Nate is a good boxer. I know we trained with, he's trained with Andre Ward for years. What's that Regis poor, I can't remember how you pronounce his name. The one fighter, Regis Porter, was it Portreus, or how you pronounce his name? I know they've sparred. I know they've sparred in box before. So I think Nate's got like legitimately good boxing skills.

And Nate's got a good chin. Nate's got good durability. Obviously, volume striker and great, great conditioning, as you mentioned. But again, 30 pounds is 30 pounds. You know what I mean? And power's power. Like, you know, like I said, I think, you know, I think, I think Islam Makachev is a phenomenal fighter. I think he's the best pound for pound guy in the world.

He's 155 pounder. You throw him in there with John Jones. There's just, you know, it's just not a fair. Or even you throw him in there with Yuri Pajashka. It's just not fair. Like, it's just not a fair fight to ask him to fight. Or Israelada Sanya. Like, yes, I understand Islam's an unbelievable fighter.

But you're also asking him to give up, you know, six inches and high. 30 pounds in weight. Like that's the reason weight classes exist. And Nate, for all intents and purposes, is a lightweight. He is not true.

He is not a middle weight. Yeah. And I think in boxing, that weight difference makes even bigger difference, right? Because there's going to be a big power difference. And Nate's probably, I'm guessing, he's probably used to be in the taller man in fights,

you know? And that's certainly not going to be the, the case this time. So that, you know, that's going to be a different for him. And like I said, really the only chance I see of him winning is, is just simply wearing him out. And it's harder to do in boxing than in May. You know, it's just simply, it's just harder to do, you know, like you, Jake will be able to block better, you know, with a bigger gloves. Um, he's only got to worry about two weapons. Um, you know, just a million different things, man. And so, It's just an uphill battle for Nate when we talk about wins and losses.

But like you said, he's getting paid, man. Good for him. He's going to fucking retire a multimillionaire. He's going to have a lot of money in the bank. Hopefully he doesn't waste it and blow it on something stupid. But, you know, good for him, man. Yeah. And also, even though I was talking about like Jake being the influencer guy and that's who he is now,

I still believe that. But Jake's not terrible. It's not like Jake is a terrible boxer. You know what I mean? Like he's not terrible. Like he's not, obviously there's a wide gap between him and the best boxers in the world, but he's not bad. You know what I mean? Like, he's not bad.

So like putting him in there against Nate. And again, MMA boxing is not boxing. Like, it's just not. So as good as we can talk about Nate being a boxer in MMA, that's not boxing. Not pure boxing. And he's just got a lot of disadvantages, I guess is what I'm getting at. Like he's going in against a guy who now has seven professional fights, trained nothing but boxing for the past like three years or whatever, years, whatever it's been for Jake Paul. Power, size, weight, these are all advantages for Jake Paul.

You know what I mean? And as you mentioned. That's the other part that we didn't really talk about was like I don't know if Nate's ever boxed before like just pure boxing. Certainly in the gym, but when you get out under the lights, you know, it's a different thing. You know, Jake Paul's already done this multiple times, eight times he said, right? So now he's going to have the experience advantage. He's got the weight advantage. I'm guessing he's probably going to have a height advantage. I mean, literally every advantage is if you just, if you don't look at the names or the, you just look at it on paper, like Jake has every advantage. Yeah, he really does. And it's, uh, and like I said, I hope Nate does well. Again, I know this sounds really weird to

say, like, I think Jake Paul wins, but I hope Nate Diaz just cashes out. Like, I hope he makes a a lot of money. And listen, the buildup, when they start doing press conferences and stuff, dude, it's going to get fun. Nate is that kind of guy. Like, it's going to be actually... Right. Again, I don't know how many people are actually even interested in this

fight itself, but a lot of people are going to get interested, right? Because the press conferences and all the hype and the buildup, it's going to get interesting. We know it. That's why I'll probably end up fucking watching it and wishing that I didn't, but I'll probably end up watching it. I can promise you, I'm

not going to buy it, but we're probably going to end up watching the son of a bitch and hoping that Nate finds a way. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. Like I said, and again, you know, good for both of them. Like I said, I pick Jake to win. I think Jake will win.

But I hope Nate makes a boatload of money. And the buildup's going to be fun, right? Like, I've been to a lot of Nate. Dude, I was at the press conference when him and Connor were chucking sodas at each other. I had a, I had a can go whizzing by my head. If you watch replays that thing, you can see the back of my head and you see a can go about a flip beside my head because I was sitting right in front of John Cabinol at the press conference.

So I was right in the middle of that bad boy. So I've been to plenty of ADS where it did not. But it was like it whizzed right by me because I was filming my phone. And I was in because where they had media, we're right in the front row. So there's like two people in front. There's like one row in front of us. That's the coaches and the teams and everything. And then there's media.

And then the stage is right there. Like it's right there. So when this whole thing happened, Nate's team's behind me. So like they walked out and that's when it started. So they're back up on the ramp. Conner's on the stage and that's when they start launching at each other and I just happened to be on the right side of the stage right in front of John Cavanaal and I was like direct line of sight to Connor McGregor. So I was right there. Like it was literally like whizzed by my head because I saw Jake Paul or Jake, uh, Jake Shields and the guys from Diaz's team start chucking and then Connor gets up and starts launching them and they were like right by me.

It was it was probably one of the more surreal experiences covering the sport being at that press conference. That's so funny. I'm surprised it didn't hit your hair. You got a big helmet on top of you. I know, dude. I got some hair, man. I got some hair there. Yeah.

So, yeah, so the press conferences, the faceoffs, the way ins, that's all going to be a lot of fun, dude. And like I said, at that point. Well, that's going to be the whole fun part of the whole experience, right? Again, the fight isn't even exciting. I don't care. But the buildup, I'm probably going to be more interested watching that than the fight itself. You know, it's funny. It's like it's like the, it was very much like Connor and Floyd.

Like the buildup was fun. Yeah. To a certain extent. Some of it got a little over, got a little overdone. But the buildup was fun. We know. Like, I had to watch just because so many idiots were like, oh, yeah,

Connor's got a good chance. You know, I think he's going to win or whatever. And I was like, bro, like you're talking about Floyd here. Come on. So I had to watch just to just to be like, okay, you motherfuckers. But the buildup's fun. Like I said, that's what is. That's the fun.

And kudos to them. rolled out. They had a poster done. They had a trailer. They got like four months to build this thing. I'm sure they're going to schedule press conferences and, you know, they're going to do some sort of tour. I'm sure they're going to do a stop in Stockton and maybe do one here in Ohio for Jake or something. You know what I mean? It's going to be fun. Like it's going to, you know what I mean? And that's what I've come to realize about this whole influencer thing, dude, it's just fun. Like, have fun with it. You know what I mean? Like, who cares? It's a little bit like WWW, right? They're like all the soap opera drama is what's really exciting. And then they do

the match and you're like all right that was cool but you know all the behind the scenes the drama the the bickering and you know whatever storyline is going along with it that's what makes it fun yeah and like i said dude how about it and i think like i said that's i think that's one thing ufc has done really well is they built in the story factor to build fights because i say this to fighters all the time and i'm sure we've had this conversation like you have 15 minutes or 25 minutes in a fight to really you know get over with fans but you have months leading into that to like you know build up your fan base talk and do podcasts, build your brand, like you have your coffee brand, do things to build yourself

outside of just that 15 minutes. Like you have 15 minutes in the cage, but take advantage of that other time you have outside of that 15 minutes, you know what I mean? And that's where I think the UFC has succeeded where every other, you know, where we're saying, I think that's one where boxing comes up short a lot of times because my favorite, my favorite boxing thing ever besides the matches was when HBO started doing 24-7. Yeah, that was a great show. When they Mayweather de la Jolla, that got me into that fight. I'm not saying that they weren't great boxers. They were obviously incredible boxers,

but that series got me so freaking hype for that fight. Yeah, maybe that's what one needs to do with the Muay guys. Or somebody, maybe that's what somebody needs to do with the Muay guys. You know, they tried the reality show, the Muay contender. And, you know, I don't know, I watched it. But just because I knew a bunch of the guys on.

or who they were at least, but I don't know if anybody's ever tried anything like that before with the guys in Moy Thai. They're, you know, Muay Thai guys are pretty fascinating people too. They're a lot like wrestlers where they're not doing it for the money and they're not doing it for all the fame and everything. Like they're doing it for the purity and they love the sport and they're doing it for the glory. So I think it'd be cool to see someone do the same thing on, you know, college wrestling or Olympic wrestling.

And, you know, there's a lot of behind, there's a lot of characters in all these sports. Yeah, the way you are for Moytai is the way I'm for wrestling. Like, I'm the, I'm the wrestling guy. Like, I'm the guy who geeks out, like, when I get to talk to Kyle Snyder, I talk to Jordan Burroughs or I talk to, you know, I talked to, um, uh, Boehnickle when he made his debut. And I've talked to, you know, Bryce Barrett's just fond bellatory.

He's, uh, you know, three-time All-American at Wyoming. Like, those are the guys I'm like geeking out about because I love wrestling, dude. I freaking love wrestling. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm with wrestling the way you are in Muay Thai. Like, I'm the guys like, this should be so much bigger than it is. Like, it's so exciting. Yeah, but wrestling is ultimately kind of boring, though.

Oh, I don't think so. I love it. I absolutely love it, dude. When I watch the NCAA championships, dude, it was like the most thrilling thing outside of watching a good UFC card. Yeah, when you watch the championships, not when you watch just the regular matches. Oh, I did. I've been to several Ohio State wrestling matches.

as I've gone down the credentialed me as media. I've gone down and covered them and I have a blast doing it. So, uh, I enjoy it. But it's not like going to a UFC fight. Oh, no,

it's not. It's not. It's not. I still, I, to me it's exhilarating. To me, it's exciting.

Uh, but I understand it's not. It's a great sport. And I love watching it, but, you know, the, the ones that are really exciting to watch is the,

the finals, right? Like, that's what you want to see. Well, when you see Gable Stevens would pull off a gold medal win the way he did. Like,

tell me there's a more exciting moment in sports like that was incredible yeah yeah that was fascinating and i mean jordan burroughs has had a million matches that were really really close and he just pulls it out at the end he's got a known for that or watching kyle dake do one of his insane moves that he's the only person in the world that can do or or watch you know kyle snider go out there and just muscle the living shit out of somebody i mean yeah it's it's an amazing sport but yeah overall though for the most part I find it pretty boring

yeah and I'm on the other end I always find it exciting but again that's like I said that's each their own but I also understand it's not people just don't get into it the way they get into and I get it I mean it's more exciting I'm not going to lie instead of it's not it may it's more exciting but like I'm always like why is it wrestling more popular the way you are why is it more popular

I'm in the same way real quick for you guys is that exciting though it actually but I've enjoyed like I said I enjoy the four ounce glove boy tie for some reason i could just never get into the other one i don't have a good reason i wish i had an excuse i don't i just never i just didn't get it i just didn't get that adrenaline pump the way i do for m m a but i did with the four ounce gloves man watching joe nata what lay out fools of four hours glows like all right all right i'm on board so again if you ever go on on youtube and find one of the live stadium channels and hearing the energy of

the stadium how how how just how knowledgeable they are how loud they are like It's pretty fucking exciting, bro. Now, you kind of have to get through, you know, they're changing the sport of Muay Thai. It's one of the great, another great thing that Chhatri has done. Like, he brought one to Lumpini Stadium, and they're taking away, you know, not letting people, there's a lot of Thai culture and how they fight where they don't really fight the first two rounds. And a lot of times they kind of dance around the last round. And that's a whole discussion and itself, why they do that.

And, you know, it's a very cultural thing. but they're taking away all that. So they're going to be fighting all five rounds. And, dude, it's going to be, it's a fucking exciting sport, man. Yeah.

Last thing before we get out of here, Matt. Do you want, David? No, no, no, no, you are,

you're right. Like I said, I would, I just, my one hope from Loiai is that, uh, I hope people get into it, one championship coming over here.

I hope we get to see people get into it. Because like I said, that's how I got into it. I think that is like the spoon full of sugar to help the medicine go down. Like, you know, I mean, you're tuning in for DJ, but trust me, you're going to want to watch Rod Tang. I promise you you're going to want to watch Rod Tang.

You know, that's kind of awesome. I hope that's what one championship does. And because, again, I used to watch nothing against lion fights. I watched lion fights. For some reason, I just could not get into it. I don't know why. I don't have a good excuse why. It's just like, all right, you know, it is what it is.

But, man, when you saw it, when it was like, I think one championship's got a great idea, and I hope it flourishes over here. I really do. Even, like, line fights or glory or, or. It's Showtime, all these K-1, all these different promotions versus the stadium fights. Just a completely different energy, man. Like go on, just do me a favor. Go watch some stadium fights the way the crowd is.

I think Moytai's, T-I-E-S, I think they still show them. There's four or five different channels you can find where they stream them live, but they stream them live at like, you know, nine in the morning or six in the morning or some shit like that. But you will go back and watch it later. It's pretty fucking exciting, man. If you don't get into that, there's something wrong with you. Matt Brown's Moytai. I think that's the promotion.

You're going to have to start when you're, when you're done fighting, Matt Brown's Moyat. I think that's where you go. Mortal Moytai. There you go. Mortal Moytai. Bring it in. Do it.

I like it. Last thing, I just want to get picks here because we all we kind of talked about earlier. We got the big heavyweight fight coming up in a matter of days. Curtis Blades taking on Sergey Pavlovich. I know you've been huge on Sergey, especially after his last fight and his last knockout. Obviously, I'm very high in Curtis Blaze.

I don't know you know Curtis because you work. out there in Colorado. He's out there. So Matt, who are you picking? Sergey Papovich or Curtis Blades? I don't have a pick on that one. Oh, come on. I can't pick on that one. I'm 50-50. No, you got to pick. Come on now. That's the fun of this. Come on now. All right. Well, I'll go with my boy, Curtis, just because we're boys.

I am picking Curtis. I legitimately think he's going to win this fight. I think Sergey's a monster. And if Sergey can hurt him early, I think he can put him away. But I haven't seen Sergey wrestle since the Overeem fight, and Overeem took him down fairly easily again a couple years ago. You can advance and progress and evolve. I get all that. But the last thing you want is Curtis Blaze on top of you. And I just, I think it's a, I think it's a, it's a time kind of thing.

Like, can he hurt Curtis before Curtis takes him down? And this is a fight where I feel like Curtis might only need one takedown. Like he could do that much damage of one takedown. So I'm going Curtis plays. I mean, yeah, I think you're right. That's really what it's going to come down to. If Curtis is able to get that takedown, Curtis is going to win. That's why I'm kind of 50-50.

If it stays on the feet, I think Sergey is going to beat Curtis pretty handily. If he can somehow manage to stop Curtis's takedowns, keep it on the feet and make it a stand-up brawl. I mean, Sergey looks absolutely phenomenal on the feet. Everything I've seen is he's just looked absolutely phenomenal. And if you got Alistar Overeem taking you down, there's probably a reason for it, right? He knows what he's getting into. So there's a, but, you know, it's just going to depend if he can stop Curtis's takedown. That's why I'm 50-50.

Yeah, I just hope Curtis, if Curtis does win, I hope that whether it's John Jones sticking around or Steepa or whatever, but I really hope Curtis gets a chance to fight for a title soon because that guy so deserves it. He's come close a couple of times. Obviously, he had two losses to Francis, so he was kind of stuck in no man's land a little little bit when Francis was champion. But, man, I just, Curtis, you know Curtis, he's an incredibly nice guy, incredibly good. dude and just a fierce fighter man i really want to see him fight for a title one day and i hope it

happens sooner rather than later for him i always i always root for people good people that have good things happen to him and i really do hope something good happens to uh to curtis blaze all right that's our show as i said next week we're going to do a full-on matt brown fight camp podcast getting ready for your fight with court mcgee it'll be your final week before you kind of dial in those last couple weeks we're going to have some guest hosts on the show after that uh alan juban is already locked in to come in one week and fill in for Matt. I'll have some more updates on other fighters. We'll still have fighter versus rider.

It'll just be me and another fighter while Matt's kind of dialing in those last couple weeks of his fight camp. And then obviously Matt will come back after he goes out there. And no offense, no offense, lays ways to court McGee. Yeah, I say that because I like court, but you know, come on now. But so after you lay away to court McGee, then you'll come back on the show that Monday after. But yeah, so we'll do our fight camp podcast next week, kind of dial into everything and get Matt kind of out of here.

and then we'll kind of gear up for that. So enjoy the fights this weekend. Thank you, as always, for everyone tuning in to Fighter versus Rider. Make sure you check us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and, of course, the best website in the world, M-M-A-Fighting.com. Matt, before we go, I just want to say, obviously, we're going into your final weeks of camp. Anyone, people can support for you? Of course, check me out on social media.

I am the immortal on Instagram and Twitter. Check out my sponsor, routine.c.c. R-O-O-O-T-I-N-E dot CO and The Immortal Coffee.com. Let's go. There you go. Matt Brown. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin.

We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for showing in. We'll see you then. Later. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay. Only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line.

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