MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Michael Bisping Talks Jake Paul vs. Tyron Woodley, Conor McGregor Controversy

Episode Date: August 24, 2021

In the debut episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer podcast, UFC Hall of Famer Michael Bisping joins host Damon Martin to debate the upcoming fight between Jake Paul and Tyron Woodley, whether or not Paul’s inclusion in combat sports is a good thing or not as well as Conor McGregor’s latest outburst on social media and what that means for his future. The Fighter vs. The Writer podcast will drop bi-weekly with different fighters from around the globe stopping by to discuss and debate the hot topics happening in mixed martial arts, boxing, bare-knuckle fighting and everything else in between. Follow Damon Martin @DamonMartin Follow Michael Bisping @Bisping Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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19 and over. Physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to the debut edition of Fighter versus Writer. I am your host, Damon Martin, and today, launching the podcast for the first time, I had to go big.

You go big or you go home. That's all there is to it. And who is bigger than the former UFC middleweight champion, the UFC Hall of Famer, a legend in the sport, and the host of his own podcast, of course, believe you me, the great Michael Bisfinging? Well, thank you very much, Damon. It is a pleasure to be your first, although I can guarantee you get way many bigger people to me, although I'll take the compliment. Thank you. It is truly an honor, my friend.

Absolutely. We go back a long ways. Every time we talk, I always got to go back to the way back machine. We go back a long, long ways. So when I was launching this, I was like, I got to get somebody good. I got to get somebody big. And I was like, Michael Bisping's a man. Like, not only you doing commentary, you got your podcast, and you got a million different

things going on. So I really do appreciate you kind of spare in the time. I know you are literally nonstop like 24-7 these days. Yeah, it is pretty crazy, to be honest. You know, as a professional fighter, you always, or even just as a professional athlete, you always kind of scared, I guess is the best word. Oh, worried.

Worried is probably a better word. What you're going to do after your athletic career, your fighting career is done? And that was always something that I was obviously always concerned about. But, yeah, retirement, yeah, I don't have any, I'm far from retired. Yes, I don't get punched in the face anymore, but I'm still working very hard.

But I love it. I'm very, very lucky. I'm blessed to do what I do. I thoroughly enjoy commentate for the UFC. And I'm involved in, you know, quite a few cool projects as well. So, yeah, life is good, Damon. Thank you. And a movie star, too.

I know you got movies coming out too. Come on now. Come on. Oh, big, big movie star. Step aside, Leonardo DiCaprio. Yeah, listen, still working on that kind of things. Obviously, it's a tough business. But I filmed a movie just before Christmas.

never back down revolt that comes out soon got a couple of things coming up as well got a movie called the journeyman and uh dead of thieves too that's uh what i'm really excited for that's i think early next year we shoot that uh somewhere in europe so yeah i wouldn't say movie star but far from it in fact but uh you know still chipping away at the acting career yeah absolutely well the concept of this show is pretty easy we're going to talk about a lot of different subjects basically the news going on in the mixed martial arts world, whatever's out there, obviously. And this week, of course, probably the biggest news, which actually takes us out of the realm of mixed martial arts, which is what obviously you were best known for and what I've done

for the past 20 some odd years covering the sport. And the fight coming up this weekend is the big boxing match, Jake Paul against Tyron Woodland, as I found out last night when we were texting, we're both going to be there. We're both going to be in Cleveland for this fight. You're going to be there for BT Sport. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I mean, as you mentioned, I'm very busy.

And another thing that I do as well as the ESPN, the UFC, the police. podcast, the acting and a bunch of other stuff is, yeah, work for BT Sport now as well, which I love. So, yeah, they asked me to go out to Cleveland, so I'll be covering that fight. And, yeah, I'll be there in person. I finish commentating on Saturday night, 10 p.m. I'm going to leg it over to the airport. I could just about make the red eye. I've got to go via Detroit, landing Cleveland at 9.30 a.m. I'll be absolutely exhausted. Hopefully get a quick couple of hours nap and then head over to the arena. And, yeah, I'm not sure. I just sent an email asking what I actually

do you need for me? I'm assuming it's some pre-impulsed fight interviews with some of the fighters if we can get access. But yeah, I will be there, my friends. So hopefully bump into you. Absolutely. It's going to be interesting because obviously everyone's been buzzing about Jake Paul's entry in the sport. And, you know, I interviewed Jake like a little over a week ago, and I told them flat out. I was like, when you first started doing this, I didn't buy it. I was like, this is, this is a joke, right? Like a YouTuber, you know, this social influence is going to try to cross over in the boxing. Like, you know, kind of roll your eyes at it. But, you know, the more I see it, the more I think, like, I think he actually is taking it seriously.

And I don't know, listen, I don't know if he's ever going to be a champion. I don't know if he's ever going to fight, you know, the top guys that actually beat the top guys. That's a long, long ways from where he's at right now. But as I told him, you know, I did some research because he had talked about where Canelo Alvarez started out. You know, Canello didn't fight a ranked fighter until his 13th opponent. Or not a rank, excuse me, not a rank, a fighter with a winning record until his 13th opponent. That's how boxing rolls. It's not like mixed martial arts where three fights in your career you're fighting good fight.

already. Boxing, you go 13, 14 fights deep before you fight anything other than a tomato can. So I'm not going to fault. Listen, the guys out there making money, he seems like it's taking, he seems like he's taking it seriously. And we can't deny that of all the fights going on this summer, I mean, this is one of the biggest events of the year. Yeah, yeah, listen, you know, I mean, obviously he said a lot. There's a lot to unpack. You know, for Jay Paul, he's a guy, as we know, he was a Disney star and then he's got into boxing, apparently. Oh, and then it was a YouTuber. So he's got a massive following. And I think, you know, a lot of people are quick to doubt and they are quick to write him off, although I do think he's

dispelling that myth a little bit and people are starting to come on board. But, you know, typically as a fighter, when you get into combat sports, most fighters, if you look at their history, they come from some kind of struggle when they were younger, whether it's, you know, an abusive family coming from poverty or whatever it was. Typically, there's always something similar. There's always that kind of struggle and this is all we have, right? So, so we, so we're We take our fighting skill and probably we were getting into scraps on the streets and things like that. And that's how we realize we can fight.

And we turn that into a living and hopefully turn things around. That's normally the case. But that doesn't mean it has to be the case. There's no prerequisite in combat sports that you have to come from a disadvantaged background. You know, so you can't hate on J-Paul for what he's doing. In fact, if anything, you're going to respect him even more. You know, for me, yeah, okay, I'm not a complete idiot. But back then, the only avenue of success or way of turning my life.

life around was through fighting. Jake Paul can do other things, but he's choosing to do this. Obviously, he's choosing it because he loves it and he's passionate about the sport. So good for him. God bless him and he'll always have my respect for doing that. And like you say in the boxing world, yes, you got to start slowly, you know, and yeah, it's, you know, they pad their records very, very early, you know, and that's the way it is. And if you compare what Jake Paul's doing compared to a lot of boxers, yeah, I said this recently. He's fighting better competition. I think the first one, was it KSI or someone like that? I'm not sure.

Then he fought the basketballer, again, whatever. But then he fought Ben Ascran, right? And I said, I knew that was a perfect matchup, right? Even though Jake Paul comes across, a bit of an idiot, he's pretty smart because that was the perfect matchup. That was genius matchmaking. And I think, and I'm not giving myself a little tap on the shoulder or on the back, but I think I was the only guy in the MMA community to pick Jake Paul to win that.

And I think everyone picked Ben Asker and even Dana was. like, I'll bet a million dollars. I don't think he went through with it, but still, he was like, he had Ben's back. He's like, no, he's a proven fighter. He was a world champion in other organizations. Everybody said, if you think Jay Paul is going to win that fight, you're out of your mind. And I was like, he can't fight. Ben Ascreen is a wrestler, and he's a very good wrestler, and he's transformed.

He's used his wrestling base to have success in mixed martial arts. But from the limited fights that I saw, what I saw was the striking is nonexistent. And then, of course, when Ben Askin showed up, you know, I didn't look like he took it too seriously. It looked like from Ben's perspective, you know, and God bless him. He's trying to cash in it at the end of his career, taking another big pay day. I don't know what he got paid,

but I'm assuming it was decent. So good for him, but he didn't look like he was using that as a catalyst to further his boxing career. Jake Paul was, so he showed up in shape. Ben Asking showed up, got knocked out with the first punch ever. Everyone's like, wow, Jay Paul's the man. I'm like, hold on a minute, slow you roll, right? I knew that was going to happen.

And I think if most people were honest, they probably knew that was going to happen as well. I just think a lot of people just felt the need to defend the mixed martial arts community and have their back. But if he took away that the bias that they already had in their mind because he was an MMA fighter, if you look at it on paper,

Ben Ashton can't box. He's never had a background in boxing. And a little bit of boxing that I've seen in the UFC was garbos. Do you know what I mean? It was bad. I mean, that fight with Damien Maia, you've seen that little highlight where he's throwing the spinning back fist

and he's throwing at fresh air. So, yeah, so Jay Paul's been smart, but you're right. You know, he's fighting better competition than other boxers would. And now in his fourth fight, going up against Tyron Woodley, you know, again, you've got to respect the guy.

You know, I know Tyron is coming at this from a different angle of Ben Ascran. I know he's looking at this to kind of springboard a career into boxing. But I don't know if he's, that's going to work, because I think this is a tough fight. I think it's a tough fight for both men. Taran Woodley's training, and I see that.

You know, I don't know, from his social media, and he came on my podcast as well. He's taking this fight seriously. Of course, for Tyrone, he lost his last four. He had a massive fall from Grace. Taran was one of the best champions of the UFC had, and then he lost four in a row. Didn't go well.

So more importantly, for Taram Woodley, this is about getting some kind of pride back. You know what I mean? Obe it against a YouTuber or a boxing match, whatever it is. this is about Tyrone would be getting back to winning ways. So he's pushing himself. He's training as hard as he can.

But as he still got it, you know, when you look at this fight on paper, a lot of the advantages go over to Jake Paul. He's the taller guy. He's a younger guy. He's at the longer reach. He hasn't got as many miles on the clock. Tyrone was defeated in his last four.

And when you look at Tyron as well, the thing that disappeared for Tyrone for me was there was the fighting spirit. That's what kind of went. Towards the end, no Tyron would do was float around the perimeter of the oxagon and looking for that hell Mary, that one big shot, you know, and of course we saw him do that against Robbie Lola, and he knocked out some other people as well, and he was known for having big power.

But that kind of became his script tonight, because that's all he would do. That's all he would do was look for that. And I do feel maybe the fires, you know, that internal fire for success, maybe that was dampened because, you know, he had some success, he had some money in the bank, the hunger wasn't there. know what it is. Maybe he was distracted through the rap career or whatever. But God bless him, you've got to do that as a fighter. When you got that platform, you're going to try and use that platform to open as many doors. I'm talking a lot here. I'm not saying much. Listen, we'll find out this weekend what the score is. But do you know what the odds are, David? Do you know who's the

favorite coming into this? Jake Paul is favorite. I don't know how much it is. I believe. I want to say it's right on like minus 200, I think. So pretty solid favorite, minus 175 maybe. And the thing is, like, with Tyron, I'm kind of with you there. I mean, I got a. a lot of questions about Tyron. Listen, I think Tyron is saying all the right things. You know, you had him on. He was just doing the MMA hour with Ariel. You know, he's saying all the right things, but he said all the right things before he fought, you know, before he fought Ustman. he said all the right things before he fought Gilbert Burns. He said all the right things before he fought Vicentile, you know, saying the right things and doing the right things

are two different things. You know, we've seen, and I brought this up before with Tyron. I said, you know, I was at his fight with Roy McDonald, number one contender five years ago, and everyone thought this was going to be a firefight and then you spent 15 minutes with tyron backed against the cage and basically roy teeing off on him so saying all the right things is great but unfortunately we have a track record a little bit with tyron where he said the right things and the delivery hasn't been there in the performance now he came out there like a ball of fire against vicente luket look great obviously vicente caught him and ultimately finished him i don't think there's any shame to lose into that guy but this is a different realm boxing his different animal but i will give

credit. And I brought this up to Jake, and I do mean it, we just saw what Anderson Silva did. Anderson Silva went out and outboxed a legit boxing champion. Now, we can all sit here and say how seriously did Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. take that fight? How good ever was he? How much did he get by on his family

name? Okay, all that's probably true. But he's still a guy with like, you know, 40 professional fights in a championship on his record, and Anderson went out there and dominated him for the better part of eight rounds. So we can't sit here and say, a mixed martial artist has no chance in boxing. Does Tyrant have a chance against Jake?

Absolutely. He's got that right hand. It's a rocket. It's a missile. If he lands it, he can knock anybody out. But I don't think I'm crazy in saying that I favor Jake Paul. Like, it's just, everything you said is absolutely right. He's taller.

He's longer. He hits hard. There's no doubt about that. I mean, you can say what you want about Ben Ascran. But up until the George Mazwithal fight, he showed a good gin. It's not like the guy got knocked into next week by every guy ever fight. He got hit by Robbie Lawler. And that dude hits like a truck.

and he survived that barrage and actually ended up pulling off that Bulldog choke. So we know he's got a chin. He took one shot from Jake Paul and he was done. So we know the guy hits hard. There's no doubt about that. So, yeah, if you're asking me to pick the fight, I'm leaning towards Jake Paul. And that's no offense to Tyron Woodley. But I just think, I don't know.

I think this could be a bad matchup for him. Yeah, I think it could as well. You know, ultimately, I mean, the thing is, as a fighter, a lot of it's confidence. You know, they say all the time. And fighting, yeah, of course, it's a very physical sport, but it's mental. 90% of it is this, you know, and you've got to have confidence, you've got to believe in yourself. And of course, if you train hard and you push yourself, that gives you confidence.

But also winning fights gives you confidence, you know, and Jake Paul, all right, he's young in his career, but he's undefeated. I remember when I was undefeated, I honestly believed that there wasn't a human being on this earth that could beat me because up until that point it hadn't happened. And prior to being a mixed martialist, I was always getting in fights as well, and I was undefeated on the fucking streets as well. So I was like, I can, no one's going to beat me. And even if they could beat me, I'll, I can always hold my own and, you know, whatever.

For Tyrone, he's got the opposite. He's lost his last four, you know, and I think you touched on something there. Yeah, he came out against Vincenti, Luque, very strong. That's because he felt the pressure because he knows what people are saying, you know. He'll hear the noise. He'll hear the critics. He'll hear the journalists and the fans and people on Twitter and all the comments on Instagram.

People talk shit. And we as fighters, we see that stuff, you know. And so Tyrone, one. wanted to dispel those myths. He wanted to come out there and show the world. And that eventually bit him in the ass. You know, I'm not saying he couldn't have beat him if he went down a different way.

But he came out strong and hard, but that was because of the pressure. So what is he going to do this time? I don't know. And then the mileage on the clock, the potential self-doubt that's there. And then on the flip side, Jake Paul, 24 years old, literally young, dumb and full of cum, right?

Everyone's kissing his ass. He's just knocked out Ben Asking. And he thinks he's hot shit, right? That's just the reality. that's how you are at that phase in your life. Everybody's swinging off his nuts telling you're the man, you're the man. He's four very world famous. He's got 40 million YouTube followers or whatever it is.

He's got wealth. He's got all that. Obviously, with all that stuff, comes ego anyway. And then now he's beating people as well, and he just knocks out Ben Asking. So you bet your ass, Jay Paul's coming into this one, thinking that he's going to walk through Tyrone Woodley. You know, of course he'll probably have reserved confidence. He's going to have respect for Tyron and the ability that he has.

But on paper, all the 50s, physicalities, whether they're mental or physical. They all fall into favor of Jake Paul. So that's why Tyrone is in the tough situation here, you know, because I know he wants to reinvent himself and have a boxing career, but he's not a boxer, you know, and that's not me. I like Tyron. I like him a lot, and I wish him the best, and I hope for the love of God.

He goes out there and wins this weekend, you know what I mean? Otherwise, again, it's going to make us M.M.A. fighters look bad. And I'm glad you brought up what Anderson Silver did to Caesar Chavez Jr. Because it just shows the ability that we have. Now, of course, Anderson's a special guy. But I have a win over Anderson. So technically, I beat Julio Caesar Chavez Jr.

Five years ago. I'll take it. It's a moral victory. But, yeah, no, the thing is he was a good pick for Ben Ascran, you know, because, again, it's Tyrone Woodley, a guy that hasn't been, he's not active when he fights. He's lost his last four, but he's got the name recognition. Oh, sorry, that's the point I was made.

not a boxer. They see that Tyrone was very good because he's a good grappler. He had powerful kicks. He's a hell of an athlete. Very, very explosive. Good wrestler, but the fear of the wrestling also sets up the power in the hands.

You know, so it's a complete threat. You don't know where he's going to come at you. Well, this is just boxing. You know, has he, does he know the full sweet science? Does he use his jabs and all the rest of it? He's going to work to the bodies. You can move the head, have head movement, in and out. You know, does he do all that stuff?

I haven't seen that. I've seen him in the line big power. shots. That's not boxing. You know, I remember when I fought Dan Henderson, and this is the point I'm going to make, when I fought Dan Henderson the first time, right, my boxing coach at the time watched tape of him. And he said, this guy's fucking horrendous. He's awful.

He's fucking shite. He's shite. If you lose to this guy, we're fucking done, right? Because he's right. When you look at Dan Henderson, he's terrible, right? But he's effective. Can't say he's not fucking effective because he knocked me out cold. The point I'm making is you don't need to be a technical boxer in a mixed martial arts fight

when you can walk someone down with four house gloves on and swing and there's a threat of a take down and all the rest of it. But when you take all those things away and you put them in a boxing ring against somebody that's all they do, and granted, J. Paul is not a Floyd Mayweather. He's not any one of those guys. But he's on his way to doing that, and he seems to be applying himself and doing everything he can to be the best boxing

that he can be. So I don't know. There's lots of questions, is basically what I'm saying. There's lots of questions. and there's only one way we're going to find out on that Saturday night. But I hate to say it, Damon. I also think that Jake Paul's going to get the job done. Yeah, let me shift gears on Jake real quick,

because when he first started, and I said I doubted him. I'll be the friend. I told him this. I was like, I didn't take you seriously, man. I just didn't. I didn't think it was serious. I thought this was all a gimmick. He seems like it's taking seriously.

But the other side of it is these guys like the Jake Paul's the Logan Paul's coming into combat sports. And there's a section. of combat sports people fighters journalists everybody saying this is somehow ruining the sanctity this sport and listen i'm guilty of it a little bit myself because when c m punk signed with the ufcs i said are you kidding me cm punk are you freaking kid me he's a pro razz literally has no martialist experience he's going to take a spot a third spot on the pay-per-view you know what i mean like it just it didn't it didn't wrap my head around it but then as time went on it's like you know what at the end of the day it's attention this is an attention sport the more attention being

paid is better. And, you know, like Jake, I know from talking to him and talking to Stephen Espinoza from Showtime, like Jake fought to get the undercard fighters on his card paid. He said, I want everyone on my undercard to make the most money they've ever made. He obviously, you've seen him banging the drum about fighter pay, getting in the fights with Dana and all that kind of stuff and that all drums up. I mean, I don't think Jake Paul being involved in combat sports is a bad thing. Like, I know there's a lot of people who are going to say it's a joke. He's not fighting real competition, but like, I'm coming around on Jake Paul, Mike. I'm not going to lie. Like, I'm coming around on this guy because he seems like he's taking it seriously.

And then when you look at the outside stuff, the attention, like, we're both about to fly into Cleveland, Ohio, I'm driving, but we're about to both go into Cleveland, Ohio to cover a boxing match with a three and a oh and a guy and a one and oh guy, or an O guy, excuse me. And it's going to be a massive pay-per-view. I just thought I've kind of come around on the idea that this isn't a bad thing. This isn't a bad thing that Jake Paul's around. No, no, no, it's not a bad thing for Jake Paul or even, what's his face?

His brother, Logan, you know, he did okay against Mayweather. I thought Mayweather should hang his head in shame after that performance because he didn't really go for it. And whilst, what was it, a drawer, it went to a decision, you know, he should be taking out someone like Logan Paul. So listen, fair play to Jake, fair play to him. You know, he's working.

He's doing what he needs to do on his mission perfectly. Okay, your mission as a professional fighter or if you want to be a fighter, is to go out there, make noise, make money, get headlines and fucking be headlining paper views. He's doing that perfectly and a young stage in his career. You cannot hate on that. So what?

He cheated the system with his YouTube and his Instagram following and all the rest of the but so what? Great. And he seems to be applying himself from what I've seen. He's training hard and all the rest of it and he's done it for a long time. So I'm not hating on Jake Paul. But what I'm not a fan of is, is, see, because Jake Paul's done that. And now you've seen other people doing it and Logan Paul's doing it.

And now he's got every motherfucker on the planet thinking, that they're a fighter. You got every motherfucker on the planet thinking that it's easy and you can go in there and you can have these fights. Well, it's not a fucking game. Do you know what I mean?

And like you've seen there was a thing with some TikTokers recently, they're all having a fight and then there's celebrity fights. And we've got, well, what if we got? Who is it there? We've got the mountain or someone fighting this big,

these two big massive juice heads or strong men, power lifters or whatever they are. I forget the names. They're fighting soon. And it's like, it's like this big thing, right? Where, ooh, just make everyone fight one another.

And it's great, and it'll all be a laugh because they think it's, but no, it's not that. It's not a laugh. And it's to be taken seriously. And someone's going to get fucking hurt eventually. Like on my podcast, Lewis J. Gomez, my co-host, God bless him, he's training hard. He's fighting Jason Ellis. And then the fucking, as I say, he's applying himself and he's trying to get better and he's losing weight.

And I applaud him for it. And I wish him all the best. But below that, the Harrington, the producer, he's fighting someone on there as well. Right. The reality is couldn't fight as well. I have a wet paper bag. Then there's another female comedian that works at the studio. of them. She's fighting someone on there as well.

But point is, everyone's fighting. They think it's so fun and game. Oh, let's fight because on the UFC, they do it. And they get tons of Instagram followers. And they have fucking jazzy haircuts and tattoos. And we're going to fight. And everyone thinks, you know, we're going to make money and be famous. Really? Do you think that's what it is?

Because I tell you what? It's only a matter of time before someone gets fucking seriously hurt. You know what I mean? It's not a game in there. It's not a fucking game. And I only say this because I don't want anyone to get hurt. I can pull this eyeball out right now. I had neck surgery down there at the start of the year.

I've got two false fucking knees. I've got to go in and have another two neck surges. I've had about 25 surges throughout the course of my career. And you've got these fucking idiots going in there that I've never conditioned their body to the kind of damage that it's going to take. It takes years. Let's say, for example, kicking, throwing leg kicks.

We've seen recently Connor snapped his leg, Wyman snapped his leg, Anderson snapped his leg. It is a rare thing. that just pops into my head. They're guys that have conditioned their thighs and condition their shins part of me, their entire lives. How do you do it from kicking?

You do it from sparring. You do it from kicking the heavy bag over and over and over again for years and years and years. But now you've got some fucking guys that fucking TikTokers, girls, Harrington, the producer of my show, they're going to walk in there

and start throwing fucking kicks. I just hope no one snaps a leg. I hope no one loses an eye. I hope no one gets the jaw broke and they're drinking through a fucking straw for the next six months. So whilst I'm not hating on Jake Paul at all Because he seems to be coming at it from the correct angle

Everybody out there thinking that fighting's fun in games And they think it's fun When they're not cut from that cloth When they haven't put in the background When they haven't done the time And learn the craft And going in there half cocked They're thinking it's a full funning games

And they're going to get some more Instagram followers I wish them the best But as I say, I truly believe It's only a matter of time Before somebody gets really hurt Yeah, well the big difference with Jake Paul Is Jake Paul's got the money and the time to just dedicate himself to boxing.

That's all he's doing for the last couple of years is training. He lived down in Puerto Rico for this training camp, but just trained for the past whatever it is, like four months or three months or whatever it is, getting ready for retire Woodley. A lot of these people who are doing this or trying this are saying, I want to be a boxer, and they do a couple of classes,

and they do a month-long training camp, and they think they're a month-long training camp, and they think they're a mixed martialist, which is just not the case. Like, Jake Paul, I commend, because he seems like it's taking it seriously. some of these people, you're absolutely right and somebody's going to get matched up in the wrong way

somebody's going to get sanctioned for a fight and it's going to end badly and it's getting horrible someone's going to hit their can't, someone's going to hit the head on the campus and it's going to be over and I hate to be so like reactionary but it's absolutely true.

Like I as a journalist I love this sport. I absolutely adore mixed martial arts and combat sports in general mixed martial arts in particular. I don't want to be a fighter. I know the risks involved with fighting. That's why I have,

that's why I revere people like yourself Mike so much because I love what you do and I love what you do to your career. I couldn't do it. I know I couldn't even become on the same, even remotely in the same level of that. So I know I'm not that person. I'm not built that way. And I'm not going to pretend to be built that way for extra Instagram followers. So I 100% agree. Jake Paul taking it seriously, I mean, he's fighting the money into it, but in the time into it. That's all great. I 100% agree though. some of these other guys and girls who are out there doing it, they're doing it for fun and they're doing it to make a paycheck.

But I've seen some of these knockouts. I've seen a couple of TikTokers get their clocks cleaned and it's not good. Yeah, yeah. And there's that, there's that as well. And I said this last week on my podcast. Who wants to watch that? If it's famous,

if they're a famous YouTuber or a famous TikToker or wherever the fuck they are, God bless them, good for you. And if they've got a massive following, you follow them and you look up to them, And maybe you might want to see that. But generally, when we're talking about masses, if, if, like, when you watch a movie, you want to watch good movies.

You want to watch the best actors. When you're watching, when you're reading comic books, I know you're into that stuff, you want to read good comic books that are well-written and great animations. So when you're watching fights, you want to watch good fighters that have dedicated their entire life to it and not some watered down bullshit, right? That's just a false representation of the sport.

And, you know, these two, These two big giant bodybuilders, I forget the names right now. I forget. I wish I could say their names, but I do apologize. I'm not hating on them at all, right? I'm sure they're insanely strong and they could pick me up and throw me through a fucking wall, right? But I don't want to see too massive lumbering,

and then just getting all out of breath after a round. What's the fun in that? Where's the skill? Where's the finesse? All right, you've got the spectacle of it for a minute. But after a minute or two, that's going to wear off. Do you know what I'm saying? So listen, I'm not hating on anybody going out there and trying to make them all out of what opportunities they may have at their fingertips.

That's what life's all about at the end of the day. You know what I mean? We're all trying to get ahead. We're trying to make it our way in life. We're trying to pay the bills. We're all trying to look after our kids, whatever it is. So if you've got an opportunity, God bless, go for it. But I'm just just fighting, fighting another person in a ring in a professional scenario.

I'm not sure that's for everybody. And I just feel that a lot of people don't give it the respect that it's due. Absolutely. Speaking of Spectacle, let me move on the next topic here on Fighter versus Writer. We're going to talk about Spectacle. Spectacle right now is what we're getting a lot out of one guy by the name of Connor McGregor. Connor, since unfortunately breaking his leg in his trilogy with Dustin Poirier has been all about spectacle. He's been all over social media.

He's gotten into war awards with everybody. My co-host, notwithstanding. But I mean, Dustin, he's got, obviously we just saw it last night with Dustin Pori. He went after Kabib again. Now, weirdly, he's had this new. bromance with Joseo Alto, which I find hilarious. Not hilarious, but it's just funny that like these two guys are suddenly like buddies, which is great, I guess.

But like, no, no, no, no, no. Sorry to interrupt me there. That's what every fighter does on the planet, right? See, what Connor's doing now, of course he's picking up Jose because he beat Jose, just like I do. Anyone that I beat? Oh, no, they're the best. They're the best.

It takes a special kind of someone to do that. So if anyone that you beat, you always root for them to win because it makes your win look even better. And if anyone that beats you, you always root for them to, if they beat you, you always root for them to win as well. So,

they beat everybody. Do you know what I'm saying? So what Connor's doing now is bigging up Jose because it makes his win look even better. But God bless him, I do the same thing. It's like the unwritten rule

that all fighters do. If you beat someone, you big them up to the max. But sorry, go on, continue. Well, no,

I guess, I guess, like, getting into the Connor thing, like, and listen, let me preface by say, I'm not like making you respond to like Connor stuff here,

But like, here's the thing. I like Connor. I've known Connor. I'm not going to say, I know him very well. Like, I'll tell you a personal story about Connor that really meant a lot to me. A lot of people know a few years ago when Fox Sports, they dumped all the writers. And I was one of them. When I was working in Fox Sports, they let go everybody.

Every writer on the staff from baseball, football, everybody. And Connor reached out to me on Twitter and, like, direct message me and said, oh, man, it really sucks. That's bullshit. They shouldn't let you go. Yeah, I feel for you. Let me know where you go next. I thought that was cool. I was like, Connor doesn't need to do that.

He absolutely, and that meant a lot to me. I had a lot of fighters reach out, but that was like, wow, that's pretty cool. Like, you know, that was cool for him to do that. That being said, what's going on right now is just, it's getting ugly. And I think in a way, it's like, like when you lose a fight, I, listen, my heart breaks from breaking a leg. That's a crappy way to lose a fight. I get it. Things were not looking good for him up to that point.

But, you know, he had a broken leg. And just like, I've talked to Chris Wyman. I know you've had Chris Wyman on your podcast as well, like that breaks my heart. see that kind of thing happen to a guy. But you look at what Chris Wyman's doing right now. He's doing video blogs, talking about his comeback, talking about his recovery, and it's been fascinating. And Chris is a great guy.

Now, I know Chris is not Connor McGregor. But Connor's like doing, like, literally, I think Connor looked at Chris Wyman's game plan and said, you know what? I'm going to do the exact opposite of what Chris Wyman's doing. I'm not going to talk about recovery. I'm going to start online Twitter wars with everybody that I've ever associated with in the history of the sport. And then when people react to that, then he's, you know,

lashes out of them. Like he just said something about Anthony Smith the other day. He's going to this. I'm like, Connor, like, I get it. What did he say about Anthony Smith? I never saw that one. I think he called like a big Frankenstein looking guy or something like that. But like, I'm just like, dude, listen, I get it. You're, you're down right now and you're, you're, you're hurt and you're going to be out for a year. I get it. But like, to me, it's almost like, just fade away from the spotlight. Get better. Put out your, put out your recovery, you know, tweets and Instagrams and I guess I guess what he's trying to do is stay relevant right now but Connor doesn't need to do that Connor's the biggest star in the sport he could not do

anything for the next six months and pop back up and people are still going to pay attention to him so I don't understand the logic of what's going on with Connor right now I just don't get it yeah well neither do I mean uh I mean I guess if I was trying to look at it you know fighters you know we we we have to have this self-belief in us I was like sometimes borders on the delusional. You know what I mean? And I guess I had that. I know for a fact when I was fighting,

I was always proclaiming I was going to be champ one day. I know everybody, not everyone agreed with that, in fact, quite the opposite, you know, and I used to think, people used to think I was deluded, but you have to have that, you have to have that belief in yourself.

And if you don't have that, then you're on, you're probably not going to go very far as a fighter. And for him, right now that's the best way that he can deal with losing these fights. I'm not making excuses for him, far from it. because I was at the, you know, I was at the receiving end of some of his bullshit recently as well,

you know what I mean? So, but I think for him, you know, to still believe that he's the, and again, I don't have a relationship with him. We used to be somewhat friendly. We don't talk anymore. So, you know, I'm not speaking from experience or anything like that. But I'm just speaking in general as a fighter.

Yeah, you know, he has to believe in his mind that that fight was competitive. He has to believe in his mind that he was going to turn it around in the second round if the leg hadn't got broken. Because if he doesn't do that, if he does accept, if he accepts that I was getting my ass kicked and I probably would have been finished,

then it's a chink in the armor. It's starting to accept that I'm not one of the best in the world. Do you know what I mean? After every time I lost a fight, yeah, it would be realistic, but I'd always say, well, if I did this different, I know I could beat him, or if this is what went wrong in the training camp,

or I was over-trained, and my wake-up went bad. But all in all, all those things. They're excuses. You make up excuses as to why you felt you should have beat the guy. So right now,

Connor's got the perfect excuse. I brought my leg. I brought my leg. I know for a fact that you're going to have come back and beaten him. And he's not only saying that. He believes that.

And he has to put that narrative out there for the entire world. Because for Dustin, it's very easy. He can just come back, post a picture of McGregor on the fourth fast asleep. And that speaks a million words.

Well, that's going to piss McGregor off as it did. Then he starts talking about his wife and all the rest of it. Because, you know, he's got no other, a course of action to go to, you know, because Dustin did beat in two to one, you know what I mean?

So you can't talk about that. But it's just, it's just, it's the competitive nature of the, of human beings and certainly are fighters, you know what I mean? That's why, you know, it does border on the delusional. And I've been there myself, but you have to, you have to have that. You cannot accept, if you, I mean, you can, you can, you should accept why you were beating and go away and go away and go away and sit down and speak to your coach and say, what the fuck was I doing wrong in that?

fight. Why was he able to beat me so much? Why I was on my back getting pounded in the face with elbows? You know, that's what you need to do. But also at the same time when you do that, it is allowing yourself to believe that the narrative of you being the best in the world, the greatest power for pound fire to the double champ or the rest of it. That was maybe a thing of the past, you know? So, yeah, it's a difficult one for Connor McGregor, but, you know, he's still got enough people swinging off his nuts. Yeah, feel free to disagree with me on this. but here's what I take from this, and here's my opinion on this, and I think this is part of it, at least a least a small part of it.

Connor is one in three in his last four fights. His one win was over Donald Cowboy Serrani, who I have the absolute utmost respect for. He's a legend in the sport. Maybe not the same cowboy then that was the cowboy fighting, you know, for titles and being one the best light of the world. Again, not a knock on him. It's just reality. He's one in three.

He got dismantled by Porre in the rematch and things were. were not going well for him in the third fight. He was getting, I mean, people scored that a 10-8 round. I mean, it was not going well for him. And then you look at the Kabib fight. Again, yes, technically he won one round, but that fight was pretty lopsided. Then he got choked out in the fourth round.

I think one of the reasons why I think Connor's going to this right now is I think for the first time, really, since he came to the UFC, people are doubting him. People are no longer saying Connor is the best in the world. He's no longer the champ champ. He's no longer the number one featherweight. He's no longer the number four ranked lightweight. Like he's not even in that conversation now.

And I have to imagine for a guy like Connor, for all the money and all the act, all the things he gets, all the Lamborghini yachts he's talking about these days. That's all great. The money's awesome. But he wants to be the best in the world. And I think for the first time in his career, at least right now, people are truly doubting him as a fighter. And I have to imagine that bugs him to no end. And I think that's part of, and again, I'm not making excuses for him. But I think that's part of why he's lashing out so much to stay in the spotlight.

Because I think for the first time ever, people are saying, you know what? Maybe Connor isn't that good. Maybe Connor isn't one of the best in the world. And I'm sure that bugs the hell out of him. That's exactly what it is. You know, you've got to think about it. You know, he came to the UFC, went on this crazy tear, beat everybody, became a champ, then became a double champ, you know, made tons of money,

world famous, all the rest of it. but now that's all still there. The money's still there. The fame's still there. But the only thing that's not there is the beating the opponents, you know. And, you know, the corner that I know, or used to know, should I say, is, you know, he prides himself on that. And there's a reason why he got to where he was, you know,

it's not easy for anybody to get to that kind of heights when I won the championship that came from years and years of sacrifice and hard work and dedication. And it's because anyone that achieves that is because it's what they pride themselves on. You know, like when I was a kid, I was always getting into fights, which I wish I wasn't, but I was, and that was kind of my identity.

That was who I was, I was Michael Bispin, I Mick Bispin and they called me, I was a tough guy, that was my identity, and I leaned into that because that was all I had. You know, I didn't come from a wealthy family or nothing like that, you know, quite the opposite. And when I was younger, I was known for being a tough guy, and that was my identity.

So I leaned into that. And if someone thought they could beat me in a fight, they said, well, fuck that, well, let's meet, who was it? over someone from the next town along, we'd go meet on the park, you know, we'd have a fight. I'm talking about when I was at school and stuff,

because that was me, that was my identity. And so I took that as far as I can. Now, of course, there are personality flaws. That's not normal to be like that. But when you're a kid and when you're a fighter, that's all you've got, you know, and that's who you are. That's your identity.

And I don't know if it's exactly similar to that, but for most fighters, that is how we figure out that we're a fighter. That's how we know we can fight. You know, I'm not saying that everybody come from a street fighting background, but a lot of us did. A lot of us did, and you can fucking romantic it all you want and talk about martial arts and Bruce Lee all day fucking long.

But the reality is that we're all tough motherfuckers that got into this because we knew how to fight, you know? And yeah, I started doing martial arts at eight years old. A lot of people started doing martial arts, but we still know how to fight. So we hold that dear to our heart, you know what I mean? And then once that starts to get chipped away out and once start people to start to see how old and I mean, maybe you're not the best in the world. It's fucking incredibly hard to deal with. And it's a tough pill to swallow. So, yeah, I think that's exactly why we're starting to see and be quite so.

What's the word I'm looking for? Nasty, for one of a better word on social media. Yeah, I saw the one, like he said, he answered somebody's tweet yesterday or the day before with, like, talking about his money. And I was like, that to me is the, when somebody was talking about his loss, he reacted with the money thing. And it's like, that's, to me, the clearest evidence I've seen yet that it's getting to him.

Because when you're not the best fighter and your reaction to being called out is not the best fighter, you lost a fight or whatever, your reaction is, I got more money than you, that's because you can't answer the other question, which is the question about your ability. And I still think Connor can come back. Will he ever be the best of the world again? I don't know.

I can't speak to that. Listen, you know, listen, when you won your championship, Mike, I remember talking to you before and after that fight with Rockhold, you had every daughter in the world saying you'll never be a champion.

You've had the opportunity you're not going to be there. And then you went out and shocked the world. So I'm not going to sit here and say, Connor can't come back and prove it. But this antic, this thing he's doing right now is just like, I don't know. I feel like he's hurting his calls

more than he's helping his calls. I guess is what I'm getting at. Yeah, I mean, you're asking me all these questions about McGregor, so, you know, I've got to be careful because people just accuse me of being a hater these days. Not that I'm a hater at all, not that I'm jealous.

I'm very, very happy being Michael Bispin. Trust me, never wanted to be another man as long as I've been alive. The reality is this, though, Jason Perillo, my coach, his father was a motivational speaker. and Jason always used to tell me this phrase or a speech that his father would give

and I'm going to butcher this, but it's something along these lines. It says, everyone in life, hold on, hold on. Everything in life, I've got it a second ago. Everything in life is something, whatever. I forget what that part is. You will always be on the top, you won't always be on the bottom. And the beauty of this knowledge is that when you're on the top,

you will remain humble, on the bottom, you'll stay confident that your time will come again, right? Connor's had his time in the fucking son, simple as that. And now it's someone else's turn. Can he come back? Of course he can. Of course you can. Everyone can.

But we tend to get one prime. It's like Khabi was talking about it recently about Tony Ferguson. Was it Tony Ferguson? Yeah, Tony Ferguson. Yeah, he was saying, you know, he's on the decline now. And sadly, it does appear to be that way. You know, Tony's losing fights now and went on that tremendous win streak. generally as fighters, you don't get multiple primes.

You know what I mean? Connor came into this, did fucking incredible things. Can you get back to that form? Maybe. Is it likely? Probably not. And that is not because that's a knock on Connor. That is just what history shows us.

You know what I mean? You come in, you do great things. You start to go into decline. And then you fuck off and do something different with you life. You know what I mean? It is what it is. You know what I mean? That's not a knock on Connor.

He did incredible things. And I will say, I respect. fact that he wants to come back and do that. He's trying to become champion again because he doesn't have to do that. God knows he's got tons of money. He can go sit on one of his yachts for the rest of his days, but he doesn't want to do that. That you've got to respect.

Yeah, absolutely. Last thing, we'll get out of here before we get out of this. We know the other side of this equation is Dustin Porier. He beat Connor twice now. He's in a situation real quick, and we'll go back on this one. I'll also give you my opinion real quick. You give me your opinion. Dustorporier is in a position now,

Charles Olivera or Nate Diaz. That seems to be one of those two fights. Now, I argue, go fight Nate Diaz. I know people are going to freak out when I say that, but I say go fight Nate Diaz, make your big chunk of money. Because if he becomes champion, that Nate Diaz fight probably goes away forever, or at least, you know, most likely goes away forever because I doubt the UFC is going to give Nate a title shot. Go make your bank, man, go make your money.

Charles Olivaire will be there, Benile Darius will be there, whoever's the champion will be there. If I'm Dustin Porier, go fight Nate Diaz and make your seven, eight-figure paycheck. What do you say? Who should Dustin Porrier fight next? I mean, it all depends. You know, I mean, I don't know the finances of Dustin Porier. I would assume we did very well out of that last fight. Ultimately, that's what we're here for, right?

We're here to make money. You know, we are prize fighters. We do for the cash. But we do it for the legacy as well. And there's no better legacy than becoming champion of the world. And then defending the belt. You've got to defend the belt. You know, that's when you'll always be called champ.

You win it. It's great, but you're going to defend it to be actually called champ for eternity. So going out there and fighting Dustin Poirier, sorry, pardon me, fighting Charles Olivares. For me, that would be my first and foremost, because you can't take that away. That's a title that no one can else can take and it will go down in history.

And then from there, if he beats Charles Alavara, which I would favour him to do so, he's got nothing but big fights after that anyway. He's a big star now. He just knocked out Connor twice in a row or whatever you want to call it. So, you know, he will have built a huge fan base off that. was already a big star anyway. But look at Nate Diaz.

You know what I mean? When he fought Connor McGregor and beat him and then had that second fight, Nate Diaz is now a massive star, not only because of Connor McGregor, because Nate Diaz is, you know, his gangster attitude and all the rest of it. And people, you know,

admire his attitude towards the sport. The point of making is, though, if Dustin Poir, he's now a massive star, he becomes the champ, he's going to have nothing but massive paydays anyway. And you never know. You never know. I would favor Dustin to beat Nate Diaz.

But you can't ride Nate Diaz out of that situation and just expect that to be given. And if he gets beat off Nate Diaz, well, he ain't sniffing a title shot anytime soon. He's got to go back on, you know, he's got to go back on the hunt again. He'll start taking some names. So if I was him, I know, I completely

disagree. I think he's going to go after Charles Oliverer, become the champion of the world, and then probably defend the battle against Connor, you know? Maybe you can find Nate Diaz, whoever, there's tons of challenges for him, but the gold, the gold. It's always going to be the gold. I mean, he said it himself year after year,

In fact, Dustin was very humble and even said it to me. I remember I was on a bus. I was commentating someone somewhere apart of me, I think in Brazil, and he was commentating. Sorry, I'm getting it all wrong. He was cornering someone. And I saw him on the bus. And as I was getting off at the hotel, I said to him, you know,

I said, hey, unlucky, man. Unlucky against Khabib. You were doing good there, but it's just Khabi. And he said, no, I know, Mike. Thank you. He said, but I'm not giving up hope. He said, in fact, your career really, really inspires me. See what you managed to achieve at the end of your career is what gives me hope.

You know, so that was beautiful of him to say that, but I understand what he means. So I know personally what it means to him to become the champ, you know, that's what goes down in the history books. That's what people remember. And when we're both dead and buried and you look back at the Hall of Fame and you look back at the champions, if he becomes the champ, Dustin Poir's name will be there, right?

Whereas if you just make a ton of money, it won't necessarily be there. That's true. That's true. You know whose name is in the Hall of Fame and who is a champion? That's Michael Bisping. Fucking mine. Before I let you go, Mike, you obviously always got a million things going. on obviously you got your podcast you got everything's what else is going on i know you got i know in

october you got some awesome speaking gigs over in your over in uh england and i am like literally i'm like i was talking i was talking to our mutual friend ann evans about this i'm like i am so fascinated by these speaking gigs you're doing uh so what else you got going on you always got a million things going on yeah yeah well uh i mean i just launched my youtube page just recently but if if i spun this camera around there's just tons and tons of boxes because i bought a ton of stuff and i've a producer, it's going to turn this room into a proper studio. But they'll still be there in those boxes in two weeks because I just haven't got time to dedicate to doing it.

I've got a few movie things coming up. Got my documentary coming out. Bispink comes out in October on Universal. We just struck a deal with them. Yeah, commentating, you know, I've got a few businesses here and there as well. Life's good. Life's good. I'm very, very blessed.

I'm very, very lucky. But yeah, the speaking tour, that was kind of, it kind of came out of nowhere. So a friend of a friend came to me with an offer in Canada a while ago. Why don't you do like a one-man show here in Canada? Because I'm invested in a business up there called Playline. So I was in Toronto a lot.

And I said, yeah, sure, why not? It'd be a laugh. So we did this event at this place called the Great Hall in Toronto. And about, I don't know, three or four hundred people showed up, pretty much a sell-out. And myself and Louis J. Gomez, who I do my podcast with, he did a warm-up set.

You know, he did some stand-up comedy. He's hilarious. He went out there, warmed up the crowd. that I went out, told some stories from my fight career, he was on the stage, like, just taking the piss out of him in the whole time, just, you know, self-deprecating remarks and one of them. But people really, really enjoyed it. And I'm getting to something with this. So out here during the pandemic, a company came to me, and they actually had an opportunity for me doing some virtual seminars and things like that. But it just didn't feel right. It didn't

feel like me. But over the course of our discussions, I did mention that one-man show. And then he came back to me with a, uh, uh, an offer that he got from a promoter to do the shows in the UK. And I always wanted to do it in England, but, you know, my organization with things like that isn't very good. That's why I need someone to come in. So anyway, they had this tremendous offer, these great venues in Ireland, Dublin, London, Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham.

And so I said, yeah, sure, let's do it, you know. But now, well, Dublin's 100% sold out. These other venues are almost completely sold out. So ticket sales have been absolutely incredible. So thanks to everyone that's done it. but now I'm terrified because now I've got to go and do it

and on October 4th is the first show but it's going to be great you know I've got a lot of surprises planned there I've got some star power coming on there I've got some video stuff from some of the UFC fires and some special guests and whatnot but yeah I'm really really excited for it but yeah hopefully it goes well and it isn't a car crash

oh I'm sure it's going to be amazing like I said I read your book I know we talked when your book came out like you got some fantastic stories to tell I think the one man show is going to be a lot of fun I'm sure you saw Mike Tyson did the One Man show a few years ago, and those are great. So there's few people in this industry who I'd want to hear stories from more. I don't think there's anybody in this industry I want to hear stories more from than you. I've sat around, had a couple beers with you before.

You can tell a story, Mike. You have nothing to be nervous about. I promise you got there. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. You know what I mean? I just going to write it down. I mean, I know the stories.

I've got the structure in my head, but I just want to, I've got to just kind of rehearse it one time. But yeah, no, I know what I'm doing. Trust me. I know what I'm doing. And Lewis is coming over doing a stand-up set again as well. It's going to be great. It's a good formula that we've got. And yeah, I'm really, really looking forward to it.

But as I said, I couldn't believe it. When I saw that they were doing it in these venues with like 3,000 people, I was like, holy shit, no pressure. And then they pretty much sold out. I was like, I was absolutely gobsmacked. I really, really was. So anyone that bought a ticket, thank you very much. Yeah, I look forward to seeing the shows and everything else you got going on.

Mike, you can't say thank you enough for jumping on this. edition of Fighter versus Writer. Thank you for doing this. Obviously, best luck with your podcast coming up. Obviously, you're always doing fantastic with the commentary. Love hearing you in the booth. And as always, thank you for doing this. I really can't say thank you enough.

Well, Damon, and it seems that we're just kissing into disasters at this point, but everything you know, you just said about me, I mean it to you as well, because I've spoken to you for many years. You always a good supporter of mine. You always wrote very fair, balanced articles and one. And I appreciate all the time and effort. put into helping build this sport really do so thank you it is an honor to be the first one but all the best with fighter versus writer look forward to see more people on here and uh yeah we'll have to do

it again sometime absolutely we'll talk to you soon okay sounds good dan right thanks buddy there you go first edition of fighter versus the writer is in the book make sure you're checking us out all the time over on all your favorite podcast platforms we are on uh apple podcast Spotify uh everywhere, and you can obviously find us over at MMAfighting.com each and every two weeks. I was going to say each and every week. Every two weeks we're going to do this show. So stay tuned for the next podcast co-host to jump on. Obviously, a huge thank you again to Michael Bisping.

And I am Damon Martin. We will see you in two weeks for the next edition of Fighter versus Rider. We'll see you then. Thanks so much for tuning in. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.