MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Michael Chandler Apologizes To Dustin Poirier, Believes Charles Oliveira Is Fighter Of The Year

Episode Date: December 21, 2021

Former UFC title challenger Michael Chandler joins The Fighter vs. The Writer episode 17 for a special year-end edition as he gives his picks for both Fighter of the Year and Fight of the Year. When it comes to Fighter of the Year, Chandler believes Charles Oliveira did more than enough to secure that position with his two wins in 2021 capped off with a submission victory against Dustin Poirier at UFC 269. Chandler states his case why he believes Oliveira deserves it over someone like reigning UFC welterweight champion Kamaru Usman, who had three title defense this past year. Chandler will also address his comments towards Poirier during the fight with Oliveira as well as hinting at what comes next for him in 2022. Follow Michael Chandler @MikeChandlerMMA Follow Damon Martin @DamonMartin Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I am Damon Martin, and today I am so happy to welcome back, one of my favorite people to speak to. And we talk about year-in categories for 2021. This guy had quite a 2021. Welcome back, my good friend Michael Chandler. Michael, how are you? What's up, David, man? I'm doing good, man.

Yeah, we're closing in on the end of probably one of the most productive and best years of my life. So it's been a good one. 2021 was great and I'm excited to talk about it, man. It's so crazy when I was looking at your year in particular. Like, it was such a crazy wild year for you to start in January with Dan Hooker to go right in the title fight in May. And then, of course, close out the year with we're going to talk about year in categories. I have an itchy feeling.

I know it's going to be fine of the year in November. I mean, can you even like encapsulate in words like what this year has been like for you, the whirlwind that 2021 has been like for you? man, it's, you know, now that you get done with it, of course, you know, once you get through, you know, hard times or get through great times or get through productive times, you always look back and think, well, that wasn't that bad, you know. But definitely, you know, the last 12 months, I mean, essentially since day one when I signed with the UFC, I've done nothing but hit the ground running. And it's been fight after fight opportunity after opportunity. And with that, comes training camp after training camp, which is, which is for me, a 12-week block. Um, so it's, uh, it's been a very, very busy one, a very productive one.

Phenomenal year for my career. Tough, tough at times because I've been away from my family. I trained down in Florida. I live in Nashville. Um, but my wife is amazing. Um, my son is resilient and adaptable. And, and we've had a phenomenal year. So it's been a great, a great year for, for the family.

It's been a great year for my career. And, and just the, uh, the transition from the, from Bellator to the UFC. and seeing just how much bigger the platform is, how many more eyeballs are on you is, it's awesome, man. It's a huge blessing, and I love being a part of the UFC, and I love still going to be looking to capture that goal in 2022.

Absolutely. It's kind of crazy when you think about it, you know, technically, and I know you mentioned this in a couple of other interviews after the fight with Justin Gaci, but, you know, technically, you know, one and two in 2021, but it doesn't feel like that. Like, it's weird to say, because you came closer to finishing Charles Oliver than anyone has over these last 10 fights,

these win streak he's been on. You came seconds away from that. I know it doesn't, you know, doesn't lessen the burn of not winning the fight, but you came inches away from beating him. And then, of course, to get engaged in a fight of the year with Justin Gachie, I mean, again, this has been, you know, it's almost like you can't erase the losses. I know that, but it almost feels like you were a big winner this year regardless of the actual results. Yeah, I mean, I do feel like. that way and it's it's hard to say man because i i i train to win i live my life like like a like a champion i feel like i feel like i do everything in order to become the champion i make the requisite sacrifices

every single day to become the best fighter i can be and i believe i can be champion you know so it is hard to i guess settle for saying that you are okay with losses that you've had but when it comes to the fights that i've had and the platforms and the opportunities and and the names that I've fought. I mean, this is the UFC. This is the cream of the crop. This is the highest level fighters at 155 pounds. So all of us could fight 10 times and we could split five times each.

You know, I mean, it's just, it's an amazing division. It's a fun division. People love this division. I love being a part of this division. It's been a great year and it's been awesome to be a part of the lightweight division. And, man, I'm excited for more fights in 2022. And, yeah. Going one and two this year definitely seems like I lost more than I won, but I feel like a winner.

Yeah, absolutely. With that said, let's get into some year-in conversation. And let's talk about the lightweight division in particular because it's kind of crazy. We had, you know, the loss, so to speak, of, you know, arguably the greatest lightweight of all time. And Habeem Magumatov, he retires. And, you know, they finally allow him to retire and he gives up the belt. And typically when a guy like that retires, you think, man, there's going to be a large shadow looming over the division because Khabib is, is, you know, he is great. I mean, he's an amazing fighter, but it felt like the lightweight

division moved on rather quickly, and that's not a knock on him. It's just speaking to the talent of the division. I think you and Charles having that battle in May really helped, of course, and then everything else has been going on with you and Justin, and obviously the rise of Islam Makashav of Benil Daryush being out there. Like, do you feel like, because I feel like the lightweight division has moved on rather quickly, and that, that Khabib question is no longer looming. And again, that's not a knock on Khabib. He's as great as we all believe. he was. It's just the talent was so deep and lightweight that I don't feel like we don't have that shadow hanging over the division and it moved on pretty quickly.

Yeah, I mean, I think there was a little bit of uncertainty, obviously. How is the division going to, how is the division going to continue to move on and will it flourish? Or as you alluded to, will there be a dark cloud with Khabib's absence? I mean, the man was what the man accomplished and going undefeated and looking unbeatable in all so many of his fights, having very little slip-ups whatsoever in between the confines of bell to bell inside those rounds. And then obviously he took a step back. And for a while, we still weren't sure if he was actually going to retire. There was months there where Dana was still trying to convince him to come back as he should. But obviously, he's retired now. And then, yeah, we've had now, I guess,

two different title fights in the lightweight division. And then even when you're not talking about title fights. Fights that feel like title fights. Me versus Gachi, as Machachev comes and surges from outside the top 10 to inside the top 10, now inside the top five. But Neil Daryush has been a perennial top guy. And then even the guys from five to 10, man, there's just, there's so many, so many great names, great talents and guys that have been in the division for so long. And every single fight at lightweight inside the top 10 feels huge, which is awesome. And that's, That's what is so beautiful about the lightweight division. So, yeah, not to ever discredit what Habib accomplished and who he was as our champion in the

lightweight division. But, yeah, when you have a division as stacked and as deep and as entertaining as a lightweight division, it will continue to move on. And that's also a, I think, a testament to or are a lesson, rather, to other fighters who think that they, you know, hey, the UFC or this division can't. move on without me. Any division will keep moving on and the UFC will continue to keep moving on. So keep your head, keep your head down at your nose or the grindstone and keep working hard because the divisions and the UFC will continue to move on. The show, the show must go on,

as they say. Yeah. And I think that, I think that the injection of guys like yourself, like Machachev, like Baneal, you know, like Charles Oliva, has really helped it because I think, one of the reasons that I think we all know, you know, when they were, when they were booking the lightweight title fight, you know, one of the reasons like you. and Charles ended up fighting it helped the division move on because neither one of you guys had that Khabib connection, you know what I mean? And I think that has helped.

And, you know, when you look at the changing of the guard, so to speak, guys were always connected to Khabi. You know, Tony Ferguson, you know, not the guy right now at the top of the division. Connor McGregor coming off a couple of losses. He always had that tie to Kibb. I feel like the division has been helped. It's almost like you couldn't write it any better

for the division to move on from a dominant champion. And again, because it could have gone the other way. It could have easily gone the other way where we're talking about all the guys who just fought Habib, I think it helped to have guys like you, guys like Charles, you know, guys like Benil, guys like Mokachev, who don't necessarily have that tie to Khabi. I think that helped the division move on.

Am I wrong? No, I think you're absolutely right. And even, obviously, even at my expense, you know, I lost to Charles in May, but, man, we got to give a hat tip to Charles Olivera with the ups and downs of his career that he's had. And then to not only win the title in May against me, but it wasn't quite enough for him to solidify himself. But then to go out there and finish Porre,

that solidifies Charles Oliveira as our legitimate champion. And there was a lot of people who bet against him, myself included. I thought Porriere was just a little bit better in all the positions to be able to beat Olivera. I thought he was going to be tougher as well, better cardio as well. But obviously it didn't play out that way.

So Saturday night, we saw Charles Olivera solidify himself as as the number one. one guy for sure and looked very dominant obviously with a finish over me finish over Porier I mean he's had the majority of I mean the most what the most submission wins in UFC history

you know one of the one of the top guys who's collected bonuses in UFC history so it's a great division Charles Olivera is the anchor at the top and now he's talking about you know what's next for him and I guess we'll see how the division plays out yeah it's kind of crazy you know we're going to give

our picks for Fighter of the Year and it just little bit, but of course Charles has got to be in that conversation now. I mean, you know, getting a win over you is a huge deal. I mean, of course, you're a top five guy in the world. You have been for so much of your career. And then you look at Dustin as well. And you're not alone. I think, you know, the majority of people I spoke to outside and I'll give credit where credit's Duke. Benil Dereuche was the one guy spoke to who said, I'm actually picking Charles because I think his ground game is that much better than Dustin. He picked it right. I didn't. I thought Dustin was going to win. I know Justin. I know Justin. I know Justin. I know you did.

Charles is really, you know, I mean, I think any questions we had about him have been answered, you know, the whole thing, is he a quitter in fight? Does he show the heart, you know, when he faces adversity, fighting top guys? I mean, you know, you don't beat a guy like you and you don't beat a guy like Dustin Porre if not being the best of the world. And I think Charles has kind of defined himself as that this year. He absolutely has. And it's, you know, and he's he's proven himself too to be a guy who's, I think more fun to watch than we thought. You know, I think, uh, with the ever-improving striking game that he has, now that he's a threat as a striker, a guy who could knock you out, a guy who could hurt you. And then if he hurts you, you're in a world of trouble, because now you get to the ground and you're in Charles Olivera's game. So, man, it's good for him.

Hats off to him. He has solidified himself. And 2022 is going to be a big year, you know, and will Charles Olivera be the champion at the end of 2022? We don't know because that's how stacked this division is. And, man, I'm excited for it. I know when going into the Dust of Porre fight, because I know we had talked about it beforehand, you know, you had absolutely nothing against Charles, but, you know, as we said, you believe Dustin would get the job done as well. But when you look at what Charles did in that fight and a guy is a guy who went toe to toe and a guy who nearly finished Charles in that opening round seconds away from knocking him out, you know, the damage you put on him, you know, and this is not a knock on Dustin or Poyant in any way, shape, or form.

but Dustin, you know, tagged him a few times not opening round, but he never truly had Charles hurt. I don't believe he did. And then he got taken down the second and, of course, finishing the third. I mean, that to me was so impressive because your fight with him was very lopsided in the first run in your favor. You come out and again, he clips you,

he catches you, huge credit to Charles Olivera. But to go out there and largely dominate Dustin Pori, I mean, yes, you could say he lost the first round, but it wasn't a blowout. It wasn't like he got, you know, it wasn't like he got knocked down as a 10-7 round or something crazy like that. It was still a really good round.

And then to come out and dominate in the second and get to finish in the third, I mean, that says a lot because not very many people can say they've dominated Dust of Porreier for two plus rounds. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, especially when so many people have, you know, picked against Charles and chose or in, and picked Porriere to win.

And it just made sense. You know, when you think about MMA math, I mean, Porri just had a more legitimate body of work than Charles Alivera has fought in some. some big championship fights. He seemed like the guy who would slide right into that, that championship role and become the champion of the lightweight division. But man, yeah, it's just, it's, it's such a crazy maturation process that we've seen.

And almost just a, you know, very much a changing of the guard in the division, but also just a, I think a turning of the leaf for, for Charles Olivera, a guy who was inconsistent, a guy who was, you know, he doesn't exactly look the part. He, you know, he's kind of taller and skinnier. And, you know, he's not exactly, doesn't look like the most dominant, you know, body type or human being. And he's going out there and finishing guys, finishing guys that look more dominant than him, finishing guys that, that look more physically imposing, you know,

and that's what's so beautiful about the sport. That's why people love this sport. It doesn't matter if you're a thousand and one underdog or a thousand and one favorite or what you look like, anything can happen inside that octagon. And what Charles Oliver has been able to do when he's been in a lot of the the UFC for so long and now to finally capture gold and then now defend his gold against, I think the guy that everybody knew was the number one contender in the world, if not the best lightweight in the world in Dustin Porre. So, man, it's, it's been a great year for him.

I know, like you said, you're doing a fighter of the year. I think that would probably be my pick for fighter of the year, watching what Charles Olivera has done this year, claiming gold and then defending it against one of the best to ever do it at lightweight, one of the greatest lightweights of all time will inevitably be a UFC Hall of Fame or Dustin Bore. So, man, hats off to him. I think he would be my pick for fight of the year. So we'll see how it plays out. Let's just go ahead and talk about that because it's kind of funny.

Going into the, going into UFC 269, you know, I would have said without fail. And I put this out on Twitter because I think, you know, my good friend Daniel Cormier said last week, he believes Cyril Gahn was five of the year. And I was like, don't get me wrong. I think Cyril Gahn had an incredible year. but I was like, did Kamaro Usman just cease to exist? Like, did he just leave the sport in 2020? Because, you know, to me, you know, and a guy, you know, I know you know Kamara very well.

You train with him for many years. You know, to beat Gilbert Burns, you know, Jorge Mazadol and Colby Covington Insight one year, that's going to be pretty hard to top. But I feel like if there's, if there's anyone that could challenge tomorrow for fighter of the year, and I'll be honest, Camaro is my pick. I just think when you beat those three guys in a row in one year and finish two of them, that is, it's just hard for me because I have so much respect for Gilbert. You know, even though you can, you can argue all day about Jorge Madsville, is he really

a top five guy or not? Maybe, maybe not. But that's not a guy who you go out there and knock out, you know, the way that Usman did. And then, you know, no shame going to a really close decision with Colby Covington. Because I think, you know, if Camaro Ousman doesn't exist, you know, Colby Covington probably is the most dominant welterweight in the sport. So for, for me, it's Usman, but I think you've got to put Oliver in that conversation because beating you and beating Dustin inside one year is ridiculous.

I mean, that's not a resume, you know, almost anyone can tout in this sport. If anyone's going to challenge Usman for Fighter of the Year, in my opinion, it's got to be Charles. Absolutely. And I think that's the one thing that Charles would have going against him was that he had, didn't have as many performances or as many fights in the year as Kamaru did. But the one thing, in my opinion, what Kamaru has going against him, if we're talking about fighter of the year, is that unfortunately,

it's, uh, it's almost as, as though we expected Camaro to be that dominant, you know, our expectation of Camaro was a little bit higher. So when it comes to exceeding expectations and that feeling you get when you say, man, what that guy did,

that makes him fighter the year. That for me is Charles Olivera because I feel like it was unexpected, a guy who, I mean, would we, would we have ever thought that Charles Oliver would be the lightweight champion a year, a year and a half ago, you know. Obviously, he was still on a run, but he was still fighting guys outside the top 10. And then all of a sudden, he comes inside the top 10, and then has been finishing guys inside the top 10 now for about a year and, or over a year. And then to cap it all off at the end, beating Dustin Porre, one of the greatest to ever do it at lightweight,

that's where I see the exceeding of expectations for me is why I would give it Charles. Yeah, they talked about it on Saturday night. You know, his first 18 fights to the UFC, he went 10 and 8. And now he's gone 10 and 0 in a row. And listen, it's hard to break that. It's hard, it's hard for us to break a pattern. You do analysts work for the UFC as well, so you know this. It's hard to break a pattern when you have an opinion of a guy when you feel like you know them.

And I felt like for the longest time I knew Charles Oliver, always exciting, always going to put on fun fights. Unfortunately, kind of fell apart when the top guys, you know, he had to fight, you know, he had the weird injury, but still he had to fight with Max Holloway. he had to lost Anthony Pettis, he had the loss to Frankie Edgar, like all these times he had a chance to take it to that next level, and he could never quite cross that threshold. So I just thought that's who he was going to be. And listen, I'm guilty of this twice now because I said the same thing about Michael Bisping, who I loved a dad, but I said years ago when he lost that second, when he lost his first fight to Luke Rockhold, I said, man, I just don't think it's ever going to happen, man. Like he would always come really close. He would get to that number one contenders fight, and then he'd lose a really close decision to chill son.

or he'd lose a, you know, a decision to whoever. And I'd be like, man, I just don't think it's going to happen for Bisping. He, of course, proved me completely wrong when he goes out and knocks out Luke Rockhold the first round. You know, same kind of thing here. It's like, I just had this opinion of Charles where I thought we had a big enough body of work on him through 18 fights of the UFC where I was like, we know this guy. Yeah, he'll go out and he'll destroy the Nick lenses of the world.

You know, he'll go. And Nick is a great fighter, but Nick's never quite been that guy. You know, Nick. You know, Nick's never quite been that top five guy. He'll beat him. He'll beat, you know, but when he beat Tony, I was like, well, maybe. But again, it's hard to, I admit, it's hard for me to get over my own mental hurdle when I think I know a guy.

And Charles has proved me wrong over and over again. And again, I got to give him huge credit because I didn't, I fully admit I've underestimated him. Yeah, no, and you're, and I think you weren't wrong in assuming that. I think your opinion of Charles Olivera was, was consistent with a lot of people's opinion of who of who Charles Olivera was and who was going to be until the end of his career. But the most important opinion out there is the opinion you have of yourself. And that's the X factor that you can never quite know about somebody. You can have an opinion of Charles Olivera. But what is Charles Oliverer's opinion of himself? And quite frankly, if you would have asked

me a year, year and a half ago, I would have said, okay, his opinion of himself is, well, I'm going to be a top 10, a top 15, maybe top 10 guy. Maybe I want to falter in the big moments. but obviously we were wrong about him having the opinion of himself. He's obviously, you can't get in a championship fight and get almost knocked out and lose around 10-8 to me and then come back and meet me in the center of the octagon like he did and then win the fight or have somewhat of a lopsided win against Dustin Porre, obviously a finish but dominant two rounds and not have the opinion of yourself being a champion or being of championship caliber.

So we were wrong about Charles Olivera. I'll be the first two admitted as well when I think about the top, the top lightweights a year ago when I was coming into the UFC. I never would have thought that I would be challenging Charles Olivera for the title or wanting to be chasing the gold and have it to be around Charles Olivera's waist. So kudos to him. Come back, come back career of the year, fighter of the year. That's where Charles Olivera is for me.

So it's pretty cool to watch. Yeah. before we move to fight of the year, which I have an itchy feeling I know what we're going to be talking about. Let me ask you real quick to put on your analyst at Michael because, you know,

on Saturday night, you know, you work the desk a lot, so you've actually, you know, you've helped to, you know, work and break down the fight, so I know you watch very intently and also you watch your own division. Now, you were, you were kind of,

I will say, you were pretty, yeah, you were, you were critical of Dustin Porier on Saturday night, you know, the way that fight ended. Now, I'll admit, I have a bit of a bit of a bit, bone to pick, you know, when you said that he quit in there. Now, I disagree. Let me explain what I mean. I don't think there's any shame in tapping out in a fight. I don't think there is.

Now, I think it's different, of course, with a choke versus an arm bar or a heel hook. You know, when you're going to get your knee ripped apart, I think that's a different situation. You know, there's only so much toughness you can show when your knee is getting shredded with a hill hook. We all know how that goes. But I want to get your mindset on that because in the moment I was like, I don't think Dustin quit. I think he just knew the fight was over and it was just done. But I want to hear your rationale because you were a little more critical of him on Saturday night. And again, I want to make sure and give credit where credit is, dude, Charles O'O'Ivera, incredible performance to finish him the way he did. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I think the hardest part with chokes

is there's so many chokes out there that are a rear naked choke or any choke that has been put on on somebody where you think it's not, you're never going to get out of it. And that's why we love this sport too. People say he's done, he's done, he's done, and you can't believe when they get out of it. You hear it with Joe Rogan, Cage side, John Anick, D.C. Cage side, and they go bananas when guys get out of it because you never quite know how deep a choke is. And I think there's always a little bit more fight left before a tap could happen. And yeah, I will, I will admit maybe I was a little bit too harsh. Maybe the word quit was not the right word to use. But I also think Dustin Porre has dismissed me since,

day one. I don't think, I don't think Dustin Porre is a bad guy. I don't think he thinks I'm a bad guy. But as a competitor, you know, he called me and Charles fighting fools gold. He, you know, he dismissed me saying he wouldn't fight me in the UFC even after I knocked out Dan Hooker.

So he was just a little bit more dismissive of me. So I think he and I, I don't think he's a bad guy. I think he's actually a great guy. I think he's a phenomenal ambassador of the sport. But he and I, when it comes to the competition aspect of us both being fighters inside the same division. I think we both have a little bit of bone to pick with each other. So I also got my back

taken by Charles Olivera. I also, he almost had that choke locked up and I was able to fight out of it. So I've been in that position. I was able to get out of it. And so, yeah, I will admit, I will concede maybe using the word quit was a little bit harsh, especially against one of the good guys, because people are probably like, how are you going to come to Dustin 40? And he's one of the best guys in MMA, right? So it was just me, and more than anything, it was kind of the, I guess, the admiration and the, the juvelation of watching Charles Olivera do what he just did when nobody thought he was going to be able to do that except his probably most of his fellow countrymen in Brazil and maybe a couple, a couple of analysts and a couple of us, his fellow fighters, coupled with loving the

sport, even though I lost to Charles Olivera, loving the sport and being pumped up on the sport. So I'll admit it's probably a little bit, a little bit critical, a little bit too critical, but that's kind of where I'm at on it. I had a joke. I did a podcast with Matt Brownerly this week, and the one thing I will say is your tweets did make me come up with a new word. I called it tap shaming, which I think is a pretty good word. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's true. I mean, I have never tap that doesn't make me tougher or better or, you know, more whatever than anybody. But so maybe I'll eat my word someday. But that's what we do. When you say, things. That's why they say, you know, words once spoken can never be, can never be caught with the

swiftest horse. Once you say something, now you got, now you got to own it, you got to eat it. So, sorry for anybody out there who I offended, who loved Dustin Porre. Sorry for anybody out there who thought it was a little bit too critical. But that's how I was feeling in the moment. Man, I love the sport. I love this division. I love fighting. Hey, you know what? And the reality is, listen, you're entitled to your opinion. You know, I mean, we can all disagree. But listen, you're in there. You're the fighter. You're the guy. And now, you know, you put yourself,

and I want to turn this into a personal interview, but you put yourself in a position looking ahead at 2022, where you've come closer to finishing Charles Olivaire than anybody in this division, you know, has. And, of course, now I know you mentioned right after your fight, the possibility of, you know, running it with Connor McGregor once he's ready, you know, and you've had a little bit of time off because you, again, had kind of a wild 2021.

But now that porny fights out there as well. So I feel like you're in a really great position going into 2022, too, where to me it's one of those two fights. It's Porreier or it's Connor, and come on. I mean, could you ask for a better, you know, one-two combo in your career? Yeah, no, they're both great. And that's what I wanted to do. When I came into the UFC, I wanted to fight all the top guys.

And Poria was actually one of the guys that we asked for, and he declined in the very beginning, which I have no problem with that. He was in the top of the division, and I was a new guy from outside of the UFC coming in. So he's always been a name on the list. He's always a guy that I respect, a guy that I admire inside of the, the sport of mixed martial arts and a guy who I would love to compete against. Obviously, Connor, I've spoken my piece about that. I think a fight between me and Connor would be absolutely huge. And I want those big moments, those big fights and those big kind of legendary

status type of platforms to continue to build my career on. And then, yeah, now you look at who the champion is, Charles Oliveira. I fought him and people would love to see me fight him again, obviously, because of the way that first fight was. And then the guy who probably will most likely be challenging him is Justin Gachie, who I obviously had a fight of the year with, and maybe with a little bit more thought about game playing and thought about winning, I would have actually won that fight. But I got caught up in the moment, loved it, enjoyed my life so much inside there that I didn't care if I won.

I was just there to be in a battle, man. Yeah. Let's talk about fight of the year because shocker of all shockers, it is you and Justin Gagchi. That is a fight of the year. That is one of the greatest fights of all time. I know we've talked about this in your career before, Michael, because I remember, you know, we talked after the Eddie, the Eddie Alvarez fights, you know,

which were both insane fight of the year type fights. You know, one time you won, one time you lost, we could talk about, and you're not going to open up the controversy. The second fight, but you know what it's like to be involved in those fights, but, and I know you said this afterwards,

uh, that, you know, it's a loss, but it doesn't feel like a loss because you went out there and you put on a show. And again, yeah, technically you have to have a loss on your record, but come on. There's no loser in that.

That was such an amazing war. You put it on Justin in a way that no one really has, especially in the opening round. I mean, that's what everyone says about Justin Gachie. You got to be most scared to him in that first round. And you went out there and beat him in that first round. You know what I mean? I almost had him finished.

And again, credit to Justin for being able to stick around. But come on, that's the fight of the year. I mean, I would argue you and Gachie is one of the greatest fights of all time. Like, if I was making my top 10 list of greatest fights of UFC history, it would be in that list. I don't know where in the list of it would be because I'd have to really think about it, but come on. I mean, that was, I was on the edge of my seat.

I was jumping out of my seat. You almost cost me a computer because I was throwing things during the fight. I mean, that was just, it was such a crazy war, man. And I mean, I can't praise you enough for that performance. Thank you, man. No, and that's what, you know, throwing things and almost breaking computers and jumping around and screaming, I mean, man, when you really boil it down and you peel back the layers, yeah, man,

am I, is it unfortunate that I lost, what I would have rather have won and me being talked about in the title picture of rematching Charles for the championship? Of course, but I'm not in that position and I'm not, I'm not here to look back and say, what a shoulda, coulda. But man, I'm in this sport to make people feel something. How are you, how do you feel about what you're doing, what you're accomplishing, what, how you are pushing yourself whenever you watch my performances and watch what I do out there and do inside the confines of competition and, and live. out my calling. And I think that fight was the, um, sorry. That's all right. Sorry, can you hear me?

Yep, yep, you're good. Sorry. That, can you hear me? Yep, you're good. Sorry, that fight was the, uh, the epitome of, of me out there performing and enjoying my life, enjoying what I do, enjoying my calling. And man, it was, like I said, the first time I got my hand grabbed by the referee and I didn't care who got their hand raised, which my big time, goodness gracious, hold on. No worries.

Sorry, can you hear me? Yep, you're good. The first time that I didn't care if I got my hand raised, you know, and I'm sure that upsets my big time supporters, the big time, the people who big time believed in me that I was going to become champion. But man, all I can do is be led by how this is going to. and how I feel and I'm enjoying my life. I love my life and I love that this fight was a part of my career

and part of my journey. And there's no doubt that the vast majority of people were extremely entertained by that fight and would love to see me fight Justin Gaitchie again. And maybe it'll be for the title by the end of 2022. We'll see. I know it doesn't, you know, we've had this conversation before throughout your career because you haven't tasted defeat very often.

But I know we've talked after all your wins and some of those losses. And you've been a guy who, you know, you've understood all. passes to the sport. And you heard the reaction after this fight. You know the reaction after this fight. People praising you and saying this was one of the greatest fights of all time. Of course, it's the 20-21 fight of the year. There's no doubt about it. There's not, again, absolutely no offense to the other fights out there, but you guys just kind of stole the show without question. But does it, I will say less than this thing, but does it make it better, you know, yes, you wanted to win, it would have felt better to win that night. But to hear people so happy,

so much joy, watching a fight, again, I know you don't do it for the prayer. but to know you gave people that kind of fight, to know you had a fight that will go down in history as one of the greatest ever. I mean, that's got to feel good, right? Even though I know it wasn't the result you wanted, it was still one of the greatest fights ever. Yeah, and really, you just, for me, when I look at that,

I feel so much, just so much gratitude toward being in the UFC. Because I will say, I mean, you take my fight with Justin, and my fights with Eddie Alvarez, you put them next to each other. You say, well, shoot, those fights with Eddie Alvarez were pretty darn close to that fight with Justin Gaci. Yet so many fewer people saw those fights in Bellator. And if it goes down as those go down the best fights in Bellator history, which they probably will, still they weren't seen as much.

When you fight on a huge pay-per-view at Madison Square Garden in a fight of the year like that, probably a fight of the one of the fights of the decade against a guy. guy like Justin Gates you, when the stakes are so high, there's title implications, and you're in the middle of Madison Square Garden. Those are the kind of fights that live on in infamy on the internet, on ESPN Plus, on ESPN, on your app on your TV, and you can go back and watch it and watch the highlights and D.C.'s breaking it down. And they do, you know, who knows, we could end up doing a documentary type of deal, 30 for 30, 30 minute specials, all that stuff on fights like that because that's what the UFC is. they are an entertainment media creation machine. So with that, obviously, I loved putting on the performance. I loved to have, you can't, you can't do it without a great dance partner.

Justin Gatesy was a phenomenal guy to fight against and compete against. He was in there making it fight of the year just as much as I was. And with that, thinking about how it just continues to live on in the future on the UFC platform. So it's, it's great, man. It's cool. and, you know, I'll be, when my son's old enough, I'll show him that fight and he'll hopefully not think I'm too crazy. Probably most likely be entertained and, you know, it'll be great, man.

Is there, you know, I remember talking to you after, you know, the Eddie Alvarez fights, you know, and unfortunately you never got the third one with him that I know you wanted because he left the organization. And it is what it is, you know, and I know when you were in free agency, you mentioned them even then, like, hey, maybe I could find a way to fight Eddie because I know you always wanted that. We're going to see you in. Justin again. Like, I feel like that's going to happen. We're going to see the rematch. And personally, I think for the title in 2022, and I, again, I keep saying this. Like, I can't, I can't say it's enough how much I respect Charles Olivera. But I think Justin Gates he has a great chance of beating him. And I think you engage you. Like, next time it's got to be five rounds, right? Like, I can't imagine you guys doing three rounds, then going five rounds. But we're going to see you engage you again. That fight is so good and so guaranteed to be good again that I feel like we're going to see this turn into one of our potentially.

one of our greatest rivalries, and I mean that not in like you guys dislike each other, just because we want to see it again. Like, you could book your next fight against Justin Gagy, and I would be freaking out excited. Yeah, and, yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Most of the time when you have a great fight like that, people are so nervous that the second fight isn't going to live up to the expectations of what you think it's going to be. But that's what I said about Justin Gagchi and I, we're men of our word. when we say we're going to go out there and slug it out there and do it, you know, and I knew that about him.

And I think he knew that about me going into the fight. And now he especially knows that about me, of course. And I know that even more about him. So, but with this fight, with this matchup, there is no way. It's just about as close to a guarantee for fireworks as you ever could get in mixed martial arts. So, yeah, I think it's going to happen again down the line. I don't know if it's, you know, next in the next six months, the next year. But it's definitely going to happen and it's going to be a good one again.

Yeah. So we know you and you and Gagey were five of the year. There's no doubt about that. But I'm curious, you know, as a fan and as a guy who does follow the sport pretty closely, did you have any other fights you enjoyed this year? Do you really enjoy to know a lot of people talked about Peter Yon and Corey Sanhagan? Max Holloway and Iyer Rodriguez was great. Dillishaw and Sanhagan was a fun fight.

You got Yuri Pahaska and Dominic Reyes. that was a crazy fun fight. Did you have any other fights, you know, taking yourself out of the equation that you enjoyed this year? I did, yeah. The Peter Jan San Hagan fight to me

was one of the best of the year. The technical ability, the technician work of Peter Jan, I think he's one of the greatest strikers, top three greatest strikers in the UFC in the world. And then Corey Sandhagen is just as tough as they absolutely come. So that one for me, I'd have to really think about it. You know, I've been out of pocket for a lot of them because I've been training so much

and missing a lot of them because it's so unfortunate when I'm training on the East Coast, the fights don't start until 10, 11 o'clock at night, and I'm in bed by 10 o'clock. So I miss a lot of the fights, to be honest with you. But I did miss Max Holloway versus Yaira Rhaer Rodriguez, and it was funny. It was the next week. and they both took pictures together in the hospital kind of right after Justin Gagy and I he was it the next week or two weeks later.

So I saw the highlights of that one. I haven't seen the fight, but obviously that one was awesome as well. So I'd go with those two as well. Yeah, absolutely. Before I get you out of here, Michael, close out on this. You know, we talked about what an incredible, crazy, amazing 2021 was for you.

But let me ask you this. Last thing I get you out of here on this. How big is 2022 going to be for Michael? Chandler? I think pretty big, you know, now that I've come in, you know, I want big fights in 2022. Big fights that have title implications

or big fights that are obviously huge fights with a ton of eyeballs and a huge platform. So that's what we're looking for. Either way, the next time you see me step inside the UFC Octagon, the next two times you see that in 2020 at least.

They're going to be huge fights, huge cards, big opportunities, and a lot on the line. And I'm going to I'm going to keep doing exactly what I say. I'm going to do. I'm going to come forward, getting, whoever my opponent is, getting his face and put on a great show and be looking for the finish from bell to bell.

It's funny, you know, we can look at you and say, you know, when you came in, we're like, let's match make for Michael Chandler. Let's, ooh, who's he going to fight here? He's going to fight here. What you've done in 2021 alone, we no longer have that question. If Michael Chandler's involved in a fight,

we're all going to watch. Yes, I would love to see you fight Connor. Yes, I would love to see you fight Dustin. But I don't care who it is. It's going to be fun because what Michael Chandler's, Chandler's in a fight. As you said, you're not here for a long time. You're here for a good time. And we are always guaranteed a good time when you step in that cage. I did. I did say that. You know, I am on the other side of 30. I may be new to the UFC, but I'm not new to

mixed martial arts. I've been around for a long time. So still got a lot of tread left on the tires. And we got a we got some big fights, you know, Connor, Porriere, Ferguson, big fights where people are going to want to see some action. And that's what I'm here to bring a lot of action and make you feel something, get you on the edge of your seat. Absolutely. Well, Michael, thank you so much again for joining me for my year-in show. I really appreciate it. Enjoy the holidays. One good thing about having your fight in November, you actually get to fatten up and get

a little happy around Christmas, right, with the kid. I mean, come on. Your son's got to be going nuts with Christmas coming up. Yeah, first Christmas I've been home for the last four years, so I'm very happy about that. I will be here in Nashville. My son will come walk down the stairs to a tree full of presents, and I can't wait for it, man.

It's going to be fun. So Merry Christmas to you and all the viewers. And thank you everybody for watching and support me on this journey in 2021. 2022 is going to be a great one. And I can't wait to go out there and do it for you guys. Michael, it's always a pleasure, my friend. I appreciate you doing this. We will talk soon, okay? Yes, sir. Thanks, Damon. Appreciate it. Bye-bye. See you. There you go. Michael Chandler, fight of the year. I mean, come on. Listen, I could, you know, Michael's a great analyst in his own right. He does great analyst work. But there's a, you know, again, great reason to have him on because he was involved in the fight of the year. I will be talking.

You will be talking. We will all be talking about that fight with Justin Gaci for years to come. Fighter of the year, fighter of the year? There is a debate now. I went with Kamar Hussman, of course. He went with Charles Olaver. I think you can make an argument for either one of those. And I don't think you'd be wrong in either case.

So what a great year we've had for MMA in 2021. And I cannot wait for 2022. We're going to hit the ground running, of course, next year. Already some big fights announced, so it's going to be great with that. I want to say a big thank you to each and every one of you tuning in to the fighter versus the writer. This is a new podcast we launched in 2021. You know, already 17 episodes deep, which is insane to me. When we launched the podcast, we had a blast talking to a lot of fighters, you know, guys like Matt Brown has been a consistent presence on the show.

You know, all the great fighters who joined Michael Bisping for the debut show this year. So yeah, I can't say thank you enough to everyone that's tuned in, that's enjoyed the podcast. If you do have suggestions or co-hosts you would like to have come on the show with me, please hit me up on Twitter anytime. You can find me at Damon Martin on Twitter for that. And a big thank you again for everyone that is, you know, whether you love the podcast or you listen to it just to hate on it, I don't know. Whatever the reason is you download in your listening, I thank you. Appreciate Michael Chandler once again for being here.

And we will see you in the new year. with another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in, and we will see you then. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.